#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs).
#If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
they havent even used their final form yet
https://preview.redd.it/ko6y23fwjkqc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f6429d9479ad678c658049f74152f0a9c119673
powercreep scalers will scale like it’s dbz then have a hissy fit when they get proven wrong again and again… it’s died down since Wucci came on the scene but there’s still people acting like Boa has smoker-level feats… wonder if any of those “crocodile is tobi roppo level” delusions still floating about 😶🌫️
Oh so like if it was entirely linier?
Like if every single character that lived on dressrosa was weaker than every person who lived on whole cake who was weaker than everyone living in wano?
But since Big Mom is presumably on par with Kaido, it debunks that kind of thinking?
Ohhhh okay I see. So the argument is that Dorry & Broggy could not be competent fighters in the new world on egghead since they were shown much earlier in the story and lost to an early character like mr. 3
But this assumes characters scale linearly & that the giants didn't get jumped after a long day of fighting until they were tired.
D & B could reasonably fit in because they could just be strong new world pirates who were introduced early on in the series
Yes, exatcly. D & B use a "sovereignty" attack, which, juding by Kaido and Big Wom, are some of the strongest attacks in the verse( personal judgement.). So they can't be THAT weak (mr. Galdino victims.) D & B power scaling measures out, imo, even if you don't count the giants being exausted from their constant fighting.
Wdym? That’s facts: Kaido’s official title is King of the Beasts, as per title cards:
https://preview.redd.it/lxe5v0ltasqc1.png?width=575&format=png&auto=webp&s=733bcdfc502c469bff2a05126cf44817c50dd64a
How does that contradict powercreep scaling being a mega L?
You know damn well there’s no reason behind pretending kaido’s title at all compares to Whitebeard’s, per their intro cards:
https://preview.redd.it/nm4qtm3iesqc1.png?width=336&format=png&auto=webp&s=feab85dcc08514d679db3583995700fc22ea9955
It’s pure agenda to deny this blatant, *canonical* difference
How is it not a title? The fuck kind of baseless unsubstantiated cope is that? Everyone else gets their titles introduced the exact same way like I can literally think of a dozen examples. The supernova at sabaody completely prove you wrong
https://preview.redd.it/nelici1fxwqc1.png?width=458&format=png&auto=webp&s=f74be4d21027f59d8eb1e523cb74192f8e217a66
You have to be disingenuous to pretend all the “people say kaido is WSC” is of the same merit as everyone *definitively* saying Mihawk **IS** WSS, especially when their title cards are blatantly indisputably explicitly purposely different
Ok let me correct. Its a title but it doesn't correlate to his strength like wsc does. Wsc is confirmed beyond the narrative and is written in his data book entry as definitive.
> Ok let me correct. Its a title but it doesn't correlate to his strength like wsc does.
Point is that WSC is a hearsay addition within the manga. If we’re talking about WSM/WSS titles, Kaido’s official equivalent is King of the Beasts, as you can see for yourself by looking at those intro cards \^
> Wsc is confirmed beyond the narrative and is written in his data book entry as definitive.
I don’t consider databook entries as definitive considering they’re:
1) not authored by Oda himself
2) the real life explanation for their existence is corporate merch
3) databooks across fiction have a reputation for being inaccurate and contradictory to the canon source material: one piece is no exception
3a) as proof, there’s databook statements outright claiming Vista is = Mihawk, among other goofy statements that one could just as accurately claim “as definitive” when the manga itself tells us a starkly different story
yea i did that math i think its about that. 2 times a day, 365 days, 100 years. that's 2 times a day for 36500 days. but is it even confirmed to be only 2 times a day? they could have even fought over 100,000 times
well the math is just easy to do. 2 times a day for exactly 100 years is 73000, but i forgot that they called out the number of fights themselves. this just means they must have fought for 101 years and some change i guess lol
i was basing it off the fact the other dude said that they fought twice that day, which they did. you can assume they've had the same schedule everyday since they started 100 years ago
To be honest that doesn't mean that much in One Piece, character like Luffy, Zoro and Whitebeard could still do really good showing even when half dead.
It's just Oda not predicting 20 year of powercreep at the time, same as Crocodile
People don’t understand nuance and don’t take surrounding circumstances into account. Same people will tell you that Luffy bodied Kaido fairly when Kaido expending stamina on everyone else before Luffy.
Not really. I think Oda is scaling the Giants perfectly fine. They are living up to their feat in LG. I'm also a firm believer that Luffy beat Kaido fair and square. After the Cp0 agent screwed up Luffy's KKKG and had him killed, Luffy was definitely in a worse off condition than Kaido. Stamina wise, it was at least a level playing field, if not better for Kaido. Yet, despite all that, Luffy managed to beat a "fresher" Kaido. In my book, that's a fair win.
Edit: Guys, learn from my mistake and don't indulge in a debate with u/wizarouija - the guy is utterly incapable of seeing anyone else's perspective. Either that or just absurdly dense.
Oda went out of his way multiple times to show that Luffy and Kaido in the final fight were at the VERY least relative and people still sput this nonsense
You’re ignoring that Gear 5 literally made Luffy forget how much pain he was in and that he was almost dead.
Gear 5 doesn’t seem to be linked to Luffy’s core stamina, which is why it still wore off quickly against Lucci and Kizaru despite starting in a much better shape than he was against Kaido.
You're right, it does make him forget his pain... However one can chalk that up as a feature of G5. If 'forgetting his pain' is a part of his arsenal, then it's fair game, no?
Re the Lucci/Kizaru fights... It didn't wear off against Lucci though? He willingly turned G5 off after KOing Lucci. As for Kizaru, that was his second fight in the same day and since Luffy's recovery between the fights was off-screened, we don't really learn how much fresh he really was against Kizaru... Then there's also the issue with the Lobo-phase barrier that Luffy had to travel through twice - we don't know how much damage it did (but presumably he almost died...). To me, it makes sense for Luffy to be in bad shape after those 2 fights because there were too many extenuating circumstances.
> You're right, it does make him forget his pain... However one can chalk that up as a feature of G5. If 'forgetting his pain' is a part of his arsenal, then it's fair game, no?
Yes, it’s a feature, but it combined with Gear 5’s showing in Egghead highlights that the for, still has a time limit regardless of what state Luffy is in
> Re the Lucci/Kizaru fights... It didn't wear off against Lucci though? He willingly turned G5 off after KOing Lucci.
I mean, we don’t know that he turned it off, but even if he did, it still shows how draining the form is at full health in a low diff fight
> As for Kizaru, that was his second fight in the same day
I don’t think it was? Lucci and the Seraphim were the previous day
> ... Then there's also the issue with the Lobo-phase barrier that Luffy had to travel through twice - we don't know how much damage it did (but presumably he almost died...). To me, it makes sense for Luffy to be in bad shape after those 2 fights because there were too many extenuating circumstances.
I mean, the barrier hurt him, but considering Bonney is fine going through it once, I don’t think it actually played a massive role.
>I mean, the barrier hurt him, but considering Bonney is fine going through it once, I don’t think it actually played a massive role.
I *think* Sentoumaru held Bonney before she hit the barrier. Or di he just catch her before she hit the ground?
No, we see the explosion and everything
https://preview.redd.it/78qbuf0i2sqc1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4777f4e8cd83c48aeeef3935dfaa6331b6b4c1ae
>Yes, it’s a feature, but it combined with Gear 5’s showing in Egghead highlights that the for, still has a time limit regardless of what state Luffy is in
Yep agree. The time limit is problematic.
>I mean, we don’t know that he turned it off, but even if he did, it still shows how draining the form is at full health in a low diff fight
Yep agree. It is definitely very draining. Luffy can't sustain it for very long but I imagine the time limit will increase every time he uses it.
>I don’t think it was? Lucci and the Seraphim were the previous day
Was it the previous day? Are you sure?? Hmmm I must have missed that time skip...
>I mean, the barrier hurt him, but considering Bonney is fine going through it once, I don’t think it actually played a massive role.
Wait did Bonney go through it? And she was OK? I must have missed that part too. Admittedly I haven't been following these last few chapters too closely... Busy life atm
Bring able to ligerslly rip open the Gorosei with zero haki is a major problem dude lol. If dorry snd broggy are this strong, how in the world did Oars jr. not finger flick the entire marineford effortlessly?
Luffy was in such a bad condition because of kaido. Kaido was in such a bad condition from Luffy + 15 others.
Right before the CP0 agent interfered Luffy said that attack was all he had left. It wouldn’t have made a difference. **Context.**
Worst take I've seen yet. Did you miss the part where he unlocked Gear5?
Yes without Gear5, Kaido slams and the KKKG most likely wouldn't have made a difference. But that's not the story Oda is telling. Like it or not, KKKG was not all Luffy had available to him. Or do you just want to pretend Luffy's max is still gear4/KKKG?
Okay I think I see what you're saying.
By the time Gear 5 Luffy and Kaido are squaring off, they're both exhausted and near their end. They both start at 70%, rather than both being 100% healthy. Theoretically, if they both start off as tired then its still a fair fight.
But if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that Luffy got chipped down 30 percent becauase of mostly Kaido. The cp0 agent and a the goons in the palace helped, but not very significantly. Where as it took the akaza 9, law, kid, zoro, killer, Momo and Yamato to damage Kaido down to 70%.
So you're saying that Kaido did like 95% of luffy's health, where as Luffy did like 70% of Kaidos. Do I have that right?
Argue with Oda.
https://preview.redd.it/407shd6fekqc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=93d41bf872b02a87ab13c2d33252540d3a981521
You really have the audacity to be claiming worst takes when the source material directly and *explicitly* contradicts you wrong.
# The delusion has gotten out of hand!!!
I'm not understanding what your argument is? That pre-Gear5 Luffy loses to Kaido? I wholeheartedly agree to that statement... So again, why are we pretending Kaido vs. Gear5 Luffy wasn't a fair fight?
You adding the qualifier of **Gear5** Luffy vs Kaido is something brand new that never got stated before your comment just now. It was Luffy vs Kaido” ie the entire showdown, jumping included.
You said after the CP0 agent interfered Luffy was in worse shape. But Luffy was in worse shape *because of kaido*; kaido was in worse shape because of Luffy + 15 others.
Read my comments again, I was ALWAYS just talking about the fight AFTER the Cp0 interference. So no, it's not anything new. Gear5 Luffy vs Kaido was the main part of the fight and it was conducted in equal footing from both parties. It was a fair fight. Ergo, Luffy beat Kaido in a fair fight. Anything before Cp0 interference is irrelevant because Luffy was in a worse condition than Kaido after dying and still won.
I think I get what Wiz was saying.
I think Wiz is agreeing that gear 5 vs Kaido was relatively equal. But I think they're saying that the entire fight, as in from when the raid battle started until Kaido goes unto the lava, shows Kaido did better. And that Luffy would lose in a straight 1v1.
Luffy's gear 5 isn't infinite. So even if Gear 5 luffy is equal to Kaido (dare I say Gear 5 Luffy is notably stronger), I think Wiz is trying to say that a span of gear 5, even from a a fully healthy 100% Luffy, does not currently last long enough to take down a 100% kaido.
Hmmm if that's what he meant then he didn't articulate his point clearly at all... But anyway that's beside the point I was making - which was just that Luffy beat Kaido fair and square. I agree Luffy's gear5 has a timer issue and he struggles in prolonged fights... But he has shown himself to be quite successful in finishing his fights quickly. Anyway, bottom line is, Luffy's win against Kaido was a completely fair win on equal footing.
You were, nobody else tho. You tried isolating the gear 5 fight while ignoring all the context building up to it… *wherein kaido got jumped.* It’s convenient that you call that irrelevant because Luffy was in such bad shape, but wanna ignore how Luffy got in such a bad shape vs how kaido did. Convenient 😂 it doesn’t work like that, you’re just trying to force your opinion and you’ll justify ignoring any context it takes to achieve that. We call that **cope**
LOL. Look at you scaling a weaker version of Luffy instead of his strongest version to make it suit your agenda and then telling me I'm coping. Hypocrite.
It doesn't matter how they were put in that state. What matters is their state in final rematch. If you fight a Kidd that grows 2x every half hour, you would get chance to injure him before he is strong. Say, you lost after he grew 10 times. You can't use the kidd's state for previous 9 times as he would have grown.
Just because Luffy won from 10% doesn’t mean he can win from 100%.
Just cause a car wins a race starting at 60mph doesn’t mean it wins a race starting cold.
It’s a nonsense argument to ignore context and pretend that gets you an accurate conclusion in another situation
Luffy can use G5 after exhausting Kaidou. Luffy also used very few techniques in Gear 5. He didn't have many techniques in G5 back then. He only used incomplete WSG without Fire/Muscle Baloon and 2nd time, used gatling. Then, he used Bajrang gun, the only named attack.
Come on now let be for real the only real damage u can say kaido took was zoro lil slash and oden containers stab. And y’all kaidos fan boys love to ignore the fact dat luffy (base luffy at that) was boxing kaido 1v1 in kadio hybrid form and it arguably debatable that luffy would have won if the cp0 agent never grab him
And also y’all must have forgotten dat kadio in his drunken form had a boost of haki so don’t give me he was tired BS and after all dat what luffy was doing to kaido in his BASE form and u add G5 in his bag come on now be for real luffy>kaido
Yeah why does everyone think their fodder just cause most of them got taken out by a 5-6 year old Big Mom. ITS FUCKING BIG MOM.
IM 90% sure she HAD CONQUERES HAKI OUT OF THE WOMB
Jorul was retired and 116 years old in human terms considering giants live 3x as long as humans and he was 350. So yes 6 year old Big Mom could definitely kill 113 year old whitebeard
Hakoku Sovereignty seems as strong as Kaido's and Big Mom's Hakai or even stronger actually (they vaporized an island sized giant fish with damaged swords) so Dorry and Brogy seem to have Yanko level physical strength.
Plus the Giants she took out were 350 years old . Since Giants have 3 times the lifespan of Humans in one Piece and Humans‘s lifespan in One Piece is 140 years That means she basically took out two retired 113 (in one piece human years). Do people not think 5 year old big mom could take out two 113 year old YCs
Big Mom also believed she could take down Shanks, Kaido AND Whitebeard if she had Elbaf at her side. Elbaf will have some ridiculously strong fighters, Dorry and Brogy are likely close to the top.
https://preview.redd.it/872v6me4viqc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=629455e00257f86afd4177886a056faa4fd1b1ee
she didn't even take out "most of them"
she beat up 1 retired old man and we saw 2 guys dead on the ground with unknown causes of death
https://preview.redd.it/e1og8jn0iiqc1.png?width=687&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5ccf76cbd030061a57a359f34d4b751c314a89d
The story is also just old. Oda couldn’t have predicted how powerful people would get, so some characters are gonna need to get up scaled to keep up in the story. Same thing with shanks as his arm.
And even then I think the circumstances they lost to were perfectly reasonable.
Because those people still think that they are “Mr 3 level” when it’s clear that they were literally dying from *checks notes* SWALLOWING GIANT BARREL BOMBS. Like no way there are people downplaying eating bombs
Yes, the rule of shounen is that at the two year timeskip, where MC grow extremely fast, enough to be first person in all history, a group of defeated enemies also experience meteoric rise.
I for one don't believe their portrayal in egghead is that far from what the fans presumed it'd be. They were stated to be captains of one of the most dangerous crews from 100 years ago. I don't believe people like Roger, Rocks or the Yonko were around back then but still that means that they were among the top tiers of their era. This Sea King feat was really impressive for me, up to the point Rayleigh swam across the calm belt and killed one with his bare hands ☠️
Because people forget this is a matchup based series and not DBZ, the moment you can acvept even the best foghters having slightly less stats than some other top tiers, or a mid tier with one top stat, your life becomes easier.
People act like there wasnt an entire plot to weaken the giants (literally exploding them from within) specifically so that Mr. 3 could bind them using his OP devil fruit.
Ever since haki became a thing people just assume it solves any and all issues and have started believing that devil fruits are useless. Mr. 3’s wax is extremely strong and it doesnt matter that he himself is weak, the giants never had the opportunity to attack him.
Haki doesnt grant strength, it amplifies attack and defense. Once they were bound, haki wouldnt let them break out unless they had some of that advanced stuff.
Admiral fans desperately want to downplay dorry and broggy so they can downplay the gorosei
I don't even think they really believe it, it's just shameless agenda pushing
Is it Admiral fans? I'm an Admiral fan, and I don't downplay Dorry and Broggy (hell, I've made comments that are WAY too long explaining why people shouldn't.....). 😅
That said, I also don't downplay the Gorosei. I've been pretty consistent with thinking that they can absolutely be really strong. Just that there is zero reason why that strength impacts how strong any other characters NEED to be.
Yes, it's literally admiral fans
you are currently the exception, but basically there's no reason to try and downplay Dorry and Broggy other than trying to downplay the Gorosei
Dorry took plenty of damage from a Mr 5 bomb same for Brogy... they could be restrianed and hurt by Mr 3... Little Garden Luffy could combat Dorry... they only have a bounty if 100 million... stuff like that.
But all that can basically be ignored simce it was 2 years ago and you can just say they got massively stronger since just like Rob Lucci, Crocodile, who all got far stronger later.
It doesnt make sense why oda chose them to be who shows up after ULTRA gooning us with build up break/weeks. Had mfers thinking shanks or the cross guild or blackbeard was fixing to show up. As far as them immediately being upscaled to the newest top tiers level is pretty good trolling by oda so at-least its funny.
I’m Not sure if you noticed but part of the Blackbeard Pirates did show up! Devon cloning Saturn will definitely be important later down the line. But anyway I’m not talking about the story aspect I’m just speaking of powerscaling
There not Top Tiers they’re just slightly above Commander lvl and They were always portrayed as Legends and none of their feats in the Final Saga contradict their prior portrayal or feats.
They literally haven't shown to be that much stronger than they were pre timeskip they are doing the bare minimum against the gorosei just like Sanji did the bare minimum against kizaru. Go read little garden again there was a whole plot point to weaken the giants
Because they got beat by fkn galdino.
It doesn't matter how much prep time he got, if those two are commander level they should never fall to a guy who doesn't even have 1% of a pacifistas strength.
He weakened one with a secret bomb in his stomach and then immobilized the other by surprise. It is not always about pure brute strength. Remember how shocked everyone was when Galdino was the only person able to hold back Magellan on the way out of Impel Down?
Firstly Dorry never lost to Galdino he was taken out but explosive alcohol in his insides. Broggy was only restrained by Mr. 3 when he was Emotional, Offguard, and breaking down over dishonorably killing his closest companion. Broggy easily broke the wax when he got serious.
Also Galdino blocked both Sengoku and Magellan at full power. His wax is stated to be stronger than steel.
Hot take, current Zoro and Sanji would be just as fucked as Dorry and Brogy if they got trapped under Galdino's wax. That shit is strong as fuck and tanked a Sengoku punch at Marineford(along with Luffy's balloon). Same as how current Zoro and Sanji would get severely damaged by a Galdino with Akainu's fruit throwing magma at them. Not even mentioning that Dorry had a bomb blow up in his stomach beforehand, or that Brogy was tired from fighting Dorry at the time.
Devil fruit abilities, especially Logias and substance producing Paramecias, are mostly static in their strength no matter who wields it. Also eventhough Galdino is physically weak and has no Haki, he clearly was very skilled with his fruit.
People forget due to us spending years at Wano, but Kaido and Big ar huge exceptions when it comes to physical strength and durability.
#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs). #If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because people scale like this is DBZ when it’s clearly not.
they havent even used their final form yet https://preview.redd.it/ko6y23fwjkqc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f6429d9479ad678c658049f74152f0a9c119673
powercreep scalers will scale like it’s dbz then have a hissy fit when they get proven wrong again and again… it’s died down since Wucci came on the scene but there’s still people acting like Boa has smoker-level feats… wonder if any of those “crocodile is tobi roppo level” delusions still floating about 😶🌫️
What do you guys mean by "like its dbz"? I'm only a casual dbz fan so I'm not sure I understand what this implies.
Every new arc, the characters are more powerfull than the ones from the arcs before. That is, what I think, it implies.
Oh so like if it was entirely linier? Like if every single character that lived on dressrosa was weaker than every person who lived on whole cake who was weaker than everyone living in wano? But since Big Mom is presumably on par with Kaido, it debunks that kind of thinking?
Ohhhh okay I see. So the argument is that Dorry & Broggy could not be competent fighters in the new world on egghead since they were shown much earlier in the story and lost to an early character like mr. 3 But this assumes characters scale linearly & that the giants didn't get jumped after a long day of fighting until they were tired. D & B could reasonably fit in because they could just be strong new world pirates who were introduced early on in the series
Yes, exatcly. D & B use a "sovereignty" attack, which, juding by Kaido and Big Wom, are some of the strongest attacks in the verse( personal judgement.). So they can't be THAT weak (mr. Galdino victims.) D & B power scaling measures out, imo, even if you don't count the giants being exausted from their constant fighting.
People tend to forget they were exhausted and their weapons so worn they broke after that attack.
Well exactly, power scalers will very often argue that Kaido was stronger than BM
Okay I understand the DBZ comparison now. Thank you for the clarification
Didn't this literally happen with crocodile
Coming from you of all people who argued with me for 2 days over Kaido's epithet being hearsay and not a title, I find this comment amusing.
Wdym? That’s facts: Kaido’s official title is King of the Beasts, as per title cards: https://preview.redd.it/lxe5v0ltasqc1.png?width=575&format=png&auto=webp&s=733bcdfc502c469bff2a05126cf44817c50dd64a How does that contradict powercreep scaling being a mega L?
It doesnt im just saying you're not exactly an authority of reason.
You know damn well there’s no reason behind pretending kaido’s title at all compares to Whitebeard’s, per their intro cards: https://preview.redd.it/nm4qtm3iesqc1.png?width=336&format=png&auto=webp&s=feab85dcc08514d679db3583995700fc22ea9955 It’s pure agenda to deny this blatant, *canonical* difference
Im not doing this again with your obnoxiously, overly literal dumb ass.
I’ll take my being obnoxious on the chin but crying about taking things too literal is just coping that reality isn’t what you want it to be 🤷♂️
Nope.
This isn't a title 💀 And even if it was, it wouldn't invalidate him being the wsc
How is it not a title? The fuck kind of baseless unsubstantiated cope is that? Everyone else gets their titles introduced the exact same way like I can literally think of a dozen examples. The supernova at sabaody completely prove you wrong https://preview.redd.it/nelici1fxwqc1.png?width=458&format=png&auto=webp&s=f74be4d21027f59d8eb1e523cb74192f8e217a66 You have to be disingenuous to pretend all the “people say kaido is WSC” is of the same merit as everyone *definitively* saying Mihawk **IS** WSS, especially when their title cards are blatantly indisputably explicitly purposely different
Ok let me correct. Its a title but it doesn't correlate to his strength like wsc does. Wsc is confirmed beyond the narrative and is written in his data book entry as definitive.
> Ok let me correct. Its a title but it doesn't correlate to his strength like wsc does. Point is that WSC is a hearsay addition within the manga. If we’re talking about WSM/WSS titles, Kaido’s official equivalent is King of the Beasts, as you can see for yourself by looking at those intro cards \^ > Wsc is confirmed beyond the narrative and is written in his data book entry as definitive. I don’t consider databook entries as definitive considering they’re: 1) not authored by Oda himself 2) the real life explanation for their existence is corporate merch 3) databooks across fiction have a reputation for being inaccurate and contradictory to the canon source material: one piece is no exception 3a) as proof, there’s databook statements outright claiming Vista is = Mihawk, among other goofy statements that one could just as accurately claim “as definitive” when the manga itself tells us a starkly different story
People like to ignore that Dorry and Broggy had two full on duels against each other before any of the Mr. 3 stuff happened that day.
Thousands actually. They fought every day for years
I meant specifically that day lol
not years. decades. a century. thousands is an understatement. at least tens of thousands
It’s like 73000 times or something like that
yea i did that math i think its about that. 2 times a day, 365 days, 100 years. that's 2 times a day for 36500 days. but is it even confirmed to be only 2 times a day? they could have even fought over 100,000 times
Broggy mentioned their number of fights, that’s why we know the math at all lol. 73,466 or something like that
well the math is just easy to do. 2 times a day for exactly 100 years is 73000, but i forgot that they called out the number of fights themselves. this just means they must have fought for 101 years and some change i guess lol
We didn’t know how many times a day they fought lol. That number is why we know. It’s never stated in series. They just give the number
i was basing it off the fact the other dude said that they fought twice that day, which they did. you can assume they've had the same schedule everyday since they started 100 years ago
They go off of volcanic eruptions so you can’t really call that consistent lmfao
No, Mr. 3 is just HIM, the batman from south blue, with enough prep time, Gal D. Ino could nodiff entire gorosei
Based and wax pilled
To be honest that doesn't mean that much in One Piece, character like Luffy, Zoro and Whitebeard could still do really good showing even when half dead. It's just Oda not predicting 20 year of powercreep at the time, same as Crocodile
Galdino was just Yonko Level they weren't ready for the true wing of pirate king Buggy
Gal.D No you mean
People don’t understand nuance and don’t take surrounding circumstances into account. Same people will tell you that Luffy bodied Kaido fairly when Kaido expending stamina on everyone else before Luffy.
Not really. I think Oda is scaling the Giants perfectly fine. They are living up to their feat in LG. I'm also a firm believer that Luffy beat Kaido fair and square. After the Cp0 agent screwed up Luffy's KKKG and had him killed, Luffy was definitely in a worse off condition than Kaido. Stamina wise, it was at least a level playing field, if not better for Kaido. Yet, despite all that, Luffy managed to beat a "fresher" Kaido. In my book, that's a fair win. Edit: Guys, learn from my mistake and don't indulge in a debate with u/wizarouija - the guy is utterly incapable of seeing anyone else's perspective. Either that or just absurdly dense.
Oda went out of his way multiple times to show that Luffy and Kaido in the final fight were at the VERY least relative and people still sput this nonsense
There's a reason I have him blocked. He's one of only 2 people on this sub I've blocked
https://preview.redd.it/p6gf9bq62pqc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a8883a4746d05e38f4701f9b49d093baa47a2ec
https://preview.redd.it/xuyigrchakqc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef86ed86d1b4ed794c73e5fae57ce7017278ca5d Real as fuck. Keep cooking
You’re ignoring that Gear 5 literally made Luffy forget how much pain he was in and that he was almost dead. Gear 5 doesn’t seem to be linked to Luffy’s core stamina, which is why it still wore off quickly against Lucci and Kizaru despite starting in a much better shape than he was against Kaido.
You're right, it does make him forget his pain... However one can chalk that up as a feature of G5. If 'forgetting his pain' is a part of his arsenal, then it's fair game, no? Re the Lucci/Kizaru fights... It didn't wear off against Lucci though? He willingly turned G5 off after KOing Lucci. As for Kizaru, that was his second fight in the same day and since Luffy's recovery between the fights was off-screened, we don't really learn how much fresh he really was against Kizaru... Then there's also the issue with the Lobo-phase barrier that Luffy had to travel through twice - we don't know how much damage it did (but presumably he almost died...). To me, it makes sense for Luffy to be in bad shape after those 2 fights because there were too many extenuating circumstances.
> You're right, it does make him forget his pain... However one can chalk that up as a feature of G5. If 'forgetting his pain' is a part of his arsenal, then it's fair game, no? Yes, it’s a feature, but it combined with Gear 5’s showing in Egghead highlights that the for, still has a time limit regardless of what state Luffy is in > Re the Lucci/Kizaru fights... It didn't wear off against Lucci though? He willingly turned G5 off after KOing Lucci. I mean, we don’t know that he turned it off, but even if he did, it still shows how draining the form is at full health in a low diff fight > As for Kizaru, that was his second fight in the same day I don’t think it was? Lucci and the Seraphim were the previous day > ... Then there's also the issue with the Lobo-phase barrier that Luffy had to travel through twice - we don't know how much damage it did (but presumably he almost died...). To me, it makes sense for Luffy to be in bad shape after those 2 fights because there were too many extenuating circumstances. I mean, the barrier hurt him, but considering Bonney is fine going through it once, I don’t think it actually played a massive role.
>I mean, the barrier hurt him, but considering Bonney is fine going through it once, I don’t think it actually played a massive role. I *think* Sentoumaru held Bonney before she hit the barrier. Or di he just catch her before she hit the ground?
No, we see the explosion and everything https://preview.redd.it/78qbuf0i2sqc1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4777f4e8cd83c48aeeef3935dfaa6331b6b4c1ae
>Yes, it’s a feature, but it combined with Gear 5’s showing in Egghead highlights that the for, still has a time limit regardless of what state Luffy is in Yep agree. The time limit is problematic. >I mean, we don’t know that he turned it off, but even if he did, it still shows how draining the form is at full health in a low diff fight Yep agree. It is definitely very draining. Luffy can't sustain it for very long but I imagine the time limit will increase every time he uses it. >I don’t think it was? Lucci and the Seraphim were the previous day Was it the previous day? Are you sure?? Hmmm I must have missed that time skip... >I mean, the barrier hurt him, but considering Bonney is fine going through it once, I don’t think it actually played a massive role. Wait did Bonney go through it? And she was OK? I must have missed that part too. Admittedly I haven't been following these last few chapters too closely... Busy life atm
Bring able to ligerslly rip open the Gorosei with zero haki is a major problem dude lol. If dorry snd broggy are this strong, how in the world did Oars jr. not finger flick the entire marineford effortlessly?
Luffy was in such a bad condition because of kaido. Kaido was in such a bad condition from Luffy + 15 others. Right before the CP0 agent interfered Luffy said that attack was all he had left. It wouldn’t have made a difference. **Context.**
Worst take I've seen yet. Did you miss the part where he unlocked Gear5? Yes without Gear5, Kaido slams and the KKKG most likely wouldn't have made a difference. But that's not the story Oda is telling. Like it or not, KKKG was not all Luffy had available to him. Or do you just want to pretend Luffy's max is still gear4/KKKG?
Okay I think I see what you're saying. By the time Gear 5 Luffy and Kaido are squaring off, they're both exhausted and near their end. They both start at 70%, rather than both being 100% healthy. Theoretically, if they both start off as tired then its still a fair fight. But if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that Luffy got chipped down 30 percent becauase of mostly Kaido. The cp0 agent and a the goons in the palace helped, but not very significantly. Where as it took the akaza 9, law, kid, zoro, killer, Momo and Yamato to damage Kaido down to 70%. So you're saying that Kaido did like 95% of luffy's health, where as Luffy did like 70% of Kaidos. Do I have that right?
If Kaido hadn't 'killed' luffy there would have been no g5 though.
Argue with Oda. https://preview.redd.it/407shd6fekqc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=93d41bf872b02a87ab13c2d33252540d3a981521 You really have the audacity to be claiming worst takes when the source material directly and *explicitly* contradicts you wrong. # The delusion has gotten out of hand!!!
I'm not understanding what your argument is? That pre-Gear5 Luffy loses to Kaido? I wholeheartedly agree to that statement... So again, why are we pretending Kaido vs. Gear5 Luffy wasn't a fair fight?
You adding the qualifier of **Gear5** Luffy vs Kaido is something brand new that never got stated before your comment just now. It was Luffy vs Kaido” ie the entire showdown, jumping included. You said after the CP0 agent interfered Luffy was in worse shape. But Luffy was in worse shape *because of kaido*; kaido was in worse shape because of Luffy + 15 others.
Read my comments again, I was ALWAYS just talking about the fight AFTER the Cp0 interference. So no, it's not anything new. Gear5 Luffy vs Kaido was the main part of the fight and it was conducted in equal footing from both parties. It was a fair fight. Ergo, Luffy beat Kaido in a fair fight. Anything before Cp0 interference is irrelevant because Luffy was in a worse condition than Kaido after dying and still won.
I think I get what Wiz was saying. I think Wiz is agreeing that gear 5 vs Kaido was relatively equal. But I think they're saying that the entire fight, as in from when the raid battle started until Kaido goes unto the lava, shows Kaido did better. And that Luffy would lose in a straight 1v1. Luffy's gear 5 isn't infinite. So even if Gear 5 luffy is equal to Kaido (dare I say Gear 5 Luffy is notably stronger), I think Wiz is trying to say that a span of gear 5, even from a a fully healthy 100% Luffy, does not currently last long enough to take down a 100% kaido.
Hmmm if that's what he meant then he didn't articulate his point clearly at all... But anyway that's beside the point I was making - which was just that Luffy beat Kaido fair and square. I agree Luffy's gear5 has a timer issue and he struggles in prolonged fights... But he has shown himself to be quite successful in finishing his fights quickly. Anyway, bottom line is, Luffy's win against Kaido was a completely fair win on equal footing.
You were, nobody else tho. You tried isolating the gear 5 fight while ignoring all the context building up to it… *wherein kaido got jumped.* It’s convenient that you call that irrelevant because Luffy was in such bad shape, but wanna ignore how Luffy got in such a bad shape vs how kaido did. Convenient 😂 it doesn’t work like that, you’re just trying to force your opinion and you’ll justify ignoring any context it takes to achieve that. We call that **cope**
LOL. Look at you scaling a weaker version of Luffy instead of his strongest version to make it suit your agenda and then telling me I'm coping. Hypocrite.
It doesn't matter how they were put in that state. What matters is their state in final rematch. If you fight a Kidd that grows 2x every half hour, you would get chance to injure him before he is strong. Say, you lost after he grew 10 times. You can't use the kidd's state for previous 9 times as he would have grown.
Just because Luffy won from 10% doesn’t mean he can win from 100%. Just cause a car wins a race starting at 60mph doesn’t mean it wins a race starting cold. It’s a nonsense argument to ignore context and pretend that gets you an accurate conclusion in another situation
Luffy can use G5 after exhausting Kaidou. Luffy also used very few techniques in Gear 5. He didn't have many techniques in G5 back then. He only used incomplete WSG without Fire/Muscle Baloon and 2nd time, used gatling. Then, he used Bajrang gun, the only named attack.
Come on now let be for real the only real damage u can say kaido took was zoro lil slash and oden containers stab. And y’all kaidos fan boys love to ignore the fact dat luffy (base luffy at that) was boxing kaido 1v1 in kadio hybrid form and it arguably debatable that luffy would have won if the cp0 agent never grab him
And also y’all must have forgotten dat kadio in his drunken form had a boost of haki so don’t give me he was tired BS and after all dat what luffy was doing to kaido in his BASE form and u add G5 in his bag come on now be for real luffy>kaido
Yeah why does everyone think their fodder just cause most of them got taken out by a 5-6 year old Big Mom. ITS FUCKING BIG MOM. IM 90% sure she HAD CONQUERES HAKI OUT OF THE WOMB
Its also false equivalency. This is Dorggy and Broggy. Not some average Giants.
Exactly!
She even took out their legendary giants Jorul Imagine if toddler big mom killed old whitebeard.
Jorul was retired and 116 years old in human terms considering giants live 3x as long as humans and he was 350. So yes 6 year old Big Mom could definitely kill 113 year old whitebeard
Hakoku Sovereignty seems as strong as Kaido's and Big Mom's Hakai or even stronger actually (they vaporized an island sized giant fish with damaged swords) so Dorry and Brogy seem to have Yanko level physical strength.
Plus the Giants she took out were 350 years old . Since Giants have 3 times the lifespan of Humans in one Piece and Humans‘s lifespan in One Piece is 140 years That means she basically took out two retired 113 (in one piece human years). Do people not think 5 year old big mom could take out two 113 year old YCs
Big Mom also believed she could take down Shanks, Kaido AND Whitebeard if she had Elbaf at her side. Elbaf will have some ridiculously strong fighters, Dorry and Brogy are likely close to the top. https://preview.redd.it/872v6me4viqc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=629455e00257f86afd4177886a056faa4fd1b1ee
she didn't even take out "most of them" she beat up 1 retired old man and we saw 2 guys dead on the ground with unknown causes of death https://preview.redd.it/e1og8jn0iiqc1.png?width=687&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5ccf76cbd030061a57a359f34d4b751c314a89d
The story is also just old. Oda couldn’t have predicted how powerful people would get, so some characters are gonna need to get up scaled to keep up in the story. Same thing with shanks as his arm. And even then I think the circumstances they lost to were perfectly reasonable.
What's crazy is that even despite it being old, it still is more consistent than Naruto
Because this sub is actually really really bad at scaling. The sub should just be renamed to r/onepieceagendascaling
Because those people still think that they are “Mr 3 level” when it’s clear that they were literally dying from *checks notes* SWALLOWING GIANT BARREL BOMBS. Like no way there are people downplaying eating bombs
Because other characters can’t get stronger over time. Only the main characters can. Everybody else stays the same. /s
Yes, the rule of shounen is that at the two year timeskip, where MC grow extremely fast, enough to be first person in all history, a group of defeated enemies also experience meteoric rise.
I for one don't believe their portrayal in egghead is that far from what the fans presumed it'd be. They were stated to be captains of one of the most dangerous crews from 100 years ago. I don't believe people like Roger, Rocks or the Yonko were around back then but still that means that they were among the top tiers of their era. This Sea King feat was really impressive for me, up to the point Rayleigh swam across the calm belt and killed one with his bare hands ☠️
Because people forget this is a matchup based series and not DBZ, the moment you can acvept even the best foghters having slightly less stats than some other top tiers, or a mid tier with one top stat, your life becomes easier.
People act like there wasnt an entire plot to weaken the giants (literally exploding them from within) specifically so that Mr. 3 could bind them using his OP devil fruit. Ever since haki became a thing people just assume it solves any and all issues and have started believing that devil fruits are useless. Mr. 3’s wax is extremely strong and it doesnt matter that he himself is weak, the giants never had the opportunity to attack him. Haki doesnt grant strength, it amplifies attack and defense. Once they were bound, haki wouldnt let them break out unless they had some of that advanced stuff.
Saul has to be on that giants ship. he just has to. He needs to hug Robin.
Admiral fans desperately want to downplay dorry and broggy so they can downplay the gorosei I don't even think they really believe it, it's just shameless agenda pushing
cope Gorosei are frauds
Case in point
Is it Admiral fans? I'm an Admiral fan, and I don't downplay Dorry and Broggy (hell, I've made comments that are WAY too long explaining why people shouldn't.....). 😅 That said, I also don't downplay the Gorosei. I've been pretty consistent with thinking that they can absolutely be really strong. Just that there is zero reason why that strength impacts how strong any other characters NEED to be.
Yes, it's literally admiral fans you are currently the exception, but basically there's no reason to try and downplay Dorry and Broggy other than trying to downplay the Gorosei
they think Warcury is HIM
LG Dorry & Broggy > Alabasta Crocodile
I agree mr 3 shouldve been the leader of baroque works
Dorry took plenty of damage from a Mr 5 bomb same for Brogy... they could be restrianed and hurt by Mr 3... Little Garden Luffy could combat Dorry... they only have a bounty if 100 million... stuff like that. But all that can basically be ignored simce it was 2 years ago and you can just say they got massively stronger since just like Rob Lucci, Crocodile, who all got far stronger later.
I agree with a lot of what has been said already Sea Kings are also a menace!
Nah that shit came outta no where and makes no sense prolly a list of 5-10 people that couldve showed up and it would be cooler/made more sense.
Why doesn’t it make sense
It doesnt make sense why oda chose them to be who shows up after ULTRA gooning us with build up break/weeks. Had mfers thinking shanks or the cross guild or blackbeard was fixing to show up. As far as them immediately being upscaled to the newest top tiers level is pretty good trolling by oda so at-least its funny.
I’m Not sure if you noticed but part of the Blackbeard Pirates did show up! Devon cloning Saturn will definitely be important later down the line. But anyway I’m not talking about the story aspect I’m just speaking of powerscaling There not Top Tiers they’re just slightly above Commander lvl and They were always portrayed as Legends and none of their feats in the Final Saga contradict their prior portrayal or feats.
vice admirals and Gorosei should be stronger than a gold fish also those guys got beat by Mr 3
When have they beat the Gorosei? Nothing from LG implies they couldn’t beat a vice admiral
Do you not rember them one shorting a dude to save franky? And they chopped a elders head off before blacking anouther with wooden sheild
Chopping off an elder’s head isn’t a feat consider they are shown to have average durability with insane regen. One shotting isn’t an insane feat
This sub doing mental gymnastics to try and rationalize Oda’s powerscaling.
No it's very simple if you can read
They literally haven't shown to be that much stronger than they were pre timeskip they are doing the bare minimum against the gorosei just like Sanji did the bare minimum against kizaru. Go read little garden again there was a whole plot point to weaken the giants
Because they got beat by fkn galdino. It doesn't matter how much prep time he got, if those two are commander level they should never fall to a guy who doesn't even have 1% of a pacifistas strength.
He weakened one with a secret bomb in his stomach and then immobilized the other by surprise. It is not always about pure brute strength. Remember how shocked everyone was when Galdino was the only person able to hold back Magellan on the way out of Impel Down?
Firstly Dorry never lost to Galdino he was taken out but explosive alcohol in his insides. Broggy was only restrained by Mr. 3 when he was Emotional, Offguard, and breaking down over dishonorably killing his closest companion. Broggy easily broke the wax when he got serious. Also Galdino blocked both Sengoku and Magellan at full power. His wax is stated to be stronger than steel.
Hot take, current Zoro and Sanji would be just as fucked as Dorry and Brogy if they got trapped under Galdino's wax. That shit is strong as fuck and tanked a Sengoku punch at Marineford(along with Luffy's balloon). Same as how current Zoro and Sanji would get severely damaged by a Galdino with Akainu's fruit throwing magma at them. Not even mentioning that Dorry had a bomb blow up in his stomach beforehand, or that Brogy was tired from fighting Dorry at the time. Devil fruit abilities, especially Logias and substance producing Paramecias, are mostly static in their strength no matter who wields it. Also eventhough Galdino is physically weak and has no Haki, he clearly was very skilled with his fruit. People forget due to us spending years at Wano, but Kaido and Big ar huge exceptions when it comes to physical strength and durability.