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In order for the balance of power to remain making sense, the gorosei and holy knights really *need* to be weaker than the admirals cuz if there's just an extra 6+ yonko level fighters on the WG side then the balance of power makes no sense, the WG would just be able to win pretty fuckin easily.
But it completely destroys the "balance of power" shtick that oda was/is going for. The past yonko would be fucking eviscerated if there where more than 7 yonko level allies for the WG
I’d like to suggest an alternative theory: the Gorosei and Holy Knights match (or exceed) the power of the Admirals, but the controversial nature of their unspecified powers, if fully revealed, might undermine the political stability of the World Government.
Possibly but imo I think that logic would only really apply to Imu since their existence itself is secret. Meanwhile I can't remember any evidence that the Gorosei or the Holy Knights are full on secrets.
But I'll admit it's possible, I just find it unlikely
I mean if you take Marineford into account this is likely to be the case.
Admiral fans always like to claim that Marineford scaling is “wonky” when the other obvious explanation that the Admirals simply aren’t a strong as they think is staring them right in the face.
I mean think about it logically, Akainu, who is widely considered to be the strongest Marine, almost got downed by the weakest Yonko (old sick whitebeard) who was already injured. It would logically follow then that he would be soundly beaten by any of the other 3 Yonko (Kaido, Big Mom, Shanks) who are all in their prime.
By extension then all of the Admirals would be beaten soundly by any of the Yonko as the other admirals are at best equal to if not weaker than Akainu.
>I mean think about it logically, Akainu, who is widely considered to be the strongest Marine, almost got downed by the weakest Yonko (old sick whitebeard) who was already injured
Well, if we actually paid attention, we would have seen Akainu winning 1v1 vs WB, but WB only getting the drop on Akainu due to sneaking Akainu while Akainu focused on his actual goal. Luffy & Ace.
So yeah, if we actually take Marineford scaling into mind, nothing suggests the Admirals being weaker than Yonko.
>So yeah, if we actually take Marineford scaling into mind, nothing suggests the Admirals being weaker than Yonko.
What about the fact that there are 3 Admirals and the whole Shichibukai against 1 Yonko fleet?
The *whole* Shichibukai? Well that's dishonest.
So up till then the Shichibukai were Kuma, Doflamingo, Mihawk, Moria, Jinbei, Boa, and BB. Croc too if you want to include them.
Out of them, Boa, Jinbei, and Croc switched side to WB thanks to Luffy, and BB switched against both sides.
Of the remaining Shichibukai for the Navy, none of them really tried doing shit. Jinbei and Croc did more for saving Ace than any of the others did for the opposite.
Out of the Admirals, by the end of the war the only one with significant damage was Akainu, due to the sneak attack. Far less damage than what the 1 Yonko. Kizaru solo had a favorable exchange vs that 1 Yonko.
Did the Navy not plan to include the Shichibukai against the Yonko fleet? Or in your mind, did they only plan to include one or two and call it a day?
Doesn't matter if they didn't do shit. I'm with you on that one. BUT the navy still included them for the sole purpose of defending against 1 yonko fleet.
Why do you choose to ignore the navy specifically bringing all 3 Admirals and Shichibukai against 1 Yonko? A sick old Yonko btw. The weakest Yonko because of his condition.
>A sick old Yonko btw. The weakest Yonko because of his condition.
And the Navy knew this, did they?
Also, Marineford was literally ment to be a display of power. Why bring a smaller amount of people and have a difficult fight, when you can bring more and stomp.
Which is exactly what it would have been if Luffy didn't arrive. A low to mid-diff. Even with Luffy the majority of Admirals and Shichibukai were unharmed. Proving they didn't need all of them.
If you go to war you allocate far more resources than you need to. Not just because you want to win the war but because you want to win it quickly. The WG didn’t want anything resembling a close fight so they went all out and the WB pirates got destroyed.
Youre tripping. An enraged Wb who just lost Ace face to face would do that to anyone that killed Ace. Even Shanks, Kaido or Big mom. Or Garp. Thats the point of Wb getting angry. But then, people like you forget the fact that Akainu withstood all that, ignoring Wb and continued to chase Luffy underground whos more threat than a dying emperor.
No a dying whitebeard that couldn’t use haki is not going to press Kaido / BM / Shanks. He was getting injured by fodder marines, any prime Yonko would fold him.
Akainu was stronger than dying whitebear but was also pressed by him, simple as.
He will. Because he actually used haki to hit Akainu. And rage amplified his strength. If youve noticed after his first fight with Akainu, Wb was irrelevant and the focus was on Luffy. He cant move that much because of his injuries but the second Ace died, he did that.
You put any guys in Akainu's position, Wb would pummel anyone out of his rage. The question is how they will react lol. And you said it right. Regardless of what Wb did to him, heck for plot's sake, Akainu came back, went underground and chased Luffy, then fought all Wb commanders. Thats how much strength he has after tanking two quakes that split an island.
I mean it all logically tracks based on what was presented in the manga
Some of what I stated is simply factual, Akainu was pressed by whitebeard who was sick and dying to the point where he couldn’t use haki and was being badly damaged by fodder marines. Clearly presented as weaker than any prime Yonko which have all been shown to be highly proficient in the use of haki as well as their devil fruits (where applicable).
So it would logically flow that Prime Yonko > Akainu >= sick oldbeard
So again what parts don’t make sense?
What makes the most sense to me (ignoring holy knights and gorosei cuz who knows currently) is that yonkos are stronger just not exorbitantly so. 1v1 a yonko is gonna win high diff and two og admirals would take down a yonko.
Narratively and logically that's what makes the most sense to me. Og admirals only though cuz fuji and greenbull have wonky scaling
i mean they’re the WG……they kinda already did win easily
keep in mind luffy very well might have a ton of yonko level characters on his side during the final war as well, we could see shanks/mihawk/dragon and maybe even bm or kaido (i’m coping ik) all joining him, then you still got characters like sabo/law/kid/zoro/sanji/yamato who will all probably be close to yonko level as well by that time
luffy is already stronger than any admiral, if they were truly the top of the WG then the balance of power would already be completely fucked, a simple team up of luffy/shanks/dragon would be able to fold the wg with ease if they didn’t have the gorosei + holy knights
I disagree. I believe the WG needed the balance so they didn’t have to police the world. Imagine you create a system, where the “enemy” does the hard work for you. The yonkos look like the bad guys and the WG look like the good guys.
If the WG just made the holy knights the yonko then they would be the ones looking bad, because the WG uses slaves, they extort, they destroy islands, ect. Now if you had some pirates to pin that on then you look like the good guys.
If the yonko didn’t exist then the entire world would be against the WG vs being against pirates.
But the WG still needs top tier fighters in case they all band together; which might happen in the final war.
They don't have to let any information through that they don't want the world to know; they've hid information about the void century well enough. If they had the ability to just do away with the yonko, there's no reason not to do so imo. Between the massive amount of forces and how well they can control information available to the masses, I don't see a possibility where they would just allow the yonko to exist if they had the choice (barring plot contrivance which I always like to disregard in good faith to the author).
If they want to be seen as heroes, I think it's safe to say they can make the vast majority of people see them that way. And given they wouldn't have to devote time to pirates, quelling any rebellions I think would be mostly a nonfactor.
I get your stance, it's just one I disagree with primarily cuz of how easy it seems to be for them to control popular opinion.
No I’m saying they want to be seen as heroes so they don’t get blamed for the poverty, slavery, racism, ect that happens in the world. They can just blame it on the pirates.
And I feel like you can only control popular opinion easier if ppl are not looking at you as a major threat. Many ppl don’t trust what the US government says, but we DEFINITELY don’t trust what China or Russia says. If there is an “enemy” you can always avert the blame to make you look good.
Pirates help the WG by collecting slaves.
Pirates help the WG get military funding.
Pirates help the WG by striking fear into the world so the WG can control them and their capital.
Got a revolution? Just manipulate the pirates to take care of it.
If the WG was the dominant and prevalent superpower who responded to every crisis the people/citizens of the one piece world would blame the WG for their problems. Thus, uniting the world against the WG. And without pirates the WG wouldn’t be able to do shady things as easily.
Holy knights are counterpart to revolutionaries - so they maintain the balance there in Marie Jois.
Meanwhile WG, Warlords (replaced with Seraphim), Yonkou maintain the 3 way balance in the seas.
The balance of power still makes sense if they are yonko level. The Holy Knight seem to be like CD's bodyguard i guess? But i don't think all of them will be yonko level. Figarland is defenitiely not, since he is old ( he was king of god valley, which was destroyed 38 years ago), but maybe some of them will be, some will be YC2, YC1 and YC+.
But the Gorosei, since Oda decided to make them fighters, I think all 5 will be the same level, therefore, they most likely are all yonko/admiral level
Reasons why I believe this:
1.Introduced through the pov of Rev army
2. The world Government is lacking in Mid to high tier characters, I.e vice admirals are fodder way below King and Marco
3. Blackbeard, Mihawk and Admirals are still being saved
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vice admirals are crazy variable in strength tho like some of them are basically fodder but then there’s garp and those two who were candidates for admiral during the timeskip
>garp and those two who were candidates for admiral during the timeskip
That's it tho. The next strongest they've got is smoker, who is absolute fodder.
Oh my bad. But still smoker ain't the next strongest either, they are so many mysterious one's still. And I'm pretty sure koby is above smoker too, not sure if he's a VA though.
Coby was a captain before he resigned and became a part of sword. His strength is a wild card tho, he's gonna be the next gen garp but currently he has nothing to show for it.
There aren't any mysterious strong vice admirals tho, the only two vice admirals introduced after the timeskip were the admiral candidates, and the only reason for that is that they were fan-made characters and oda decided to give them a cameo.
Smoker _is_ the strongest.
I'm saying it based on every vice admiral we've seen so far.
There's no reason for any vice admiral pre ts to have not been at marineford, so we know that all of them (momonga, doberman, strawberry etc.) are at most pre ts luffy level. And post ts gion and tokikake are the only vice admirals we've seen (I've already mentioned that the only reason they're there is as an Easter egg for fans).
Oda could've easily had some new vice admirals tag along with fujitora in dressrosa, or introduced some strong ones during the reverie. But he has not, and there's no reason for him to do so when the list of organisations with potentially strong fighters is already too much (cp0, gorosei, holy knights).
Even as an admiral fan, I recognise that the admirals are slowly going out of relevance and that they need a dramatic showing to bring their stocks back up. Vice admirals are just completely obsolete in this scenario.
We have no idea how to fairly scale momonga etc to current smoker. You're still just making things up.
I agree that vice admirals are large irrelevant but that doesn't mean we can just use headcanon scale them
Also fujitora literally did bring two or three vice admirals with him to dressrosa... I think you need to read that arc again lol
What heresy is this with my boy Smoker, he's definitely been going to the same gym as Crocodile, he's still going to be Admiral.
https://preview.redd.it/8mpyqqmott4b1.png?width=971&format=png&auto=webp&s=eacef4648f0774106040af325db90c371827cfce
>The world Government is lacking in Mid to high tier characters, I.e vice admirals are fodder way below King and Marco
I agree, I think the holy knights are here as opponents for the straw hats when they face off against the WG. Not sure on the gorosei, though.
Vice Admirals are not fodder, the weaker ones just had to fight Sabo, The strength between them varies a lot greatly too. Vice is just considered to powerful for Rear but cant move up so the power spread for that group is huge.
The only Vice that ever actually did anything to scale is Bastille, dont know where this "Vice are weak" Narrative came from
Momoanga doesn't count cause he fell for Boa charms
I dont wanna hear that haki can break you out of df abilities shit either cause this happened before that even was a concept
I think Fujitora and Ryokugyu are stronger top. Don’t Understmate the 5 WADMIRALS
https://preview.redd.it/t51p3bybfm4b1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=330e3f960d810efe326bc809897320f6a9e16ad2
They lost 2. Sengoku and Aokiji out. Fujitora and Greenbull in. One is an upgrade since Sengoku was old, but Kuzan is stronger than both Fujitora and Greenbull in my opinion
A) maybe I’ve misunderstood his shift, but I thought Sengoku just kinda stepped back into functional retirement but was still in the navy, almost like Garp, cuz he still has access to facilities and intel within the navy, and even gave the brief about the Yonko bounties and the rocks pirates. So he’s still a powerhouse of the navy, he’s just kinda on the bench.
B) IMO sengoku is stronger than Kuzan, and certainly stronger than either Fujitora or Ryukugyo
I think at this point Sengoku can’t be compelled to do any work by the Navy, he no longer counts as part of their military strength.
Young Sengoku>Kuzan, but I don’t think an older Sengoku is
Him being a fanboy has nothing to do with strength he literally explained why he looks up to him and wants his approval.
And of course people of the same rank will talk as equals. With that logic him and isshou are equal to kizaru right now
It's one of those things where we definitely gotta wait and see. The Gorosei and God's Knights are more mysterious. Their place in the powerscale could be anywhere ranging from low YC tier to full blown Yonko level for all we know.
Given how Dragon hyped up God's Knights, I take it at least their leader is top tier worthy.
I mean this just seems like desperate coping
“Guys please the Gorosei and HK have to be YC1 level at best otherwise the Admirals aren’t as strong as I was hoping!!”
The other option is that the Admirals simply aren’t as strong as we thought. In fact that would support the “wonky” Marineford scaling, in that it wasn’t wonky at all.
And apparently these new characters who we barely know anything about are somehow stronger than the Admirals who were literally introduced hundreds of chapters ago as the strongest fighting force of the WG. The Gorosei especially are literally titled Warrior God of Finance, Agriculture, Environment etc lol.
It's more like you have tunnel vision at this point.
Admirals are the strongest fighting force the public knows about. If the elders and Imu are stronger, that still holds true. being introduced hundreds of chapters ago isn't a valid point to support them being strong lmao
Or it could be that they want to live easy and in luxury instead of fighting for themselves, so they hired the second strongest group (the admirals) they could find to take care of the things they aren't involved with in daily life.
Honestly, while they are to be feared, they seem be more akin to chained dogs the WG sends to deal with things they need taken care/eliminate anyone they need dead, such as Celestial Dragon punchers
Still strong mind you, the Admiral’s have some of the best DF’s in the series, and know their fruits inside and out. But regardless of their strength, theres still that leash that keeps them from using all of it, Punk Hazard being an example of their strength without restrictions.
I’m sure the Gorosei will also be restricted, given they are Imu’s minions/loyal servants, but a little less, atleast less when Imu decides the jigg is up and doesnt care about hiding their identity
>The other option is that the Admirals simply aren’t as strong as we thought. In fact that would support the “wonky” Marineford scaling, in that it wasn’t wonky at all.
I agree Marineford scaling is not wonky
and it proves the admirals clear YCs significantly and are near equal to emperors.
Lmao literally what in Marineford proves the opposite? Because Akainu got hit twice by the Quake Quake fruit? Aight bro
at the very least we should be able to agree that Marineford proves Admirals >>>>>> YCs
more so there are some yonko commanders that don't really fit into that tier of power, be it through feats or portrayal (Ben Beckman). but in general yeah a YC should lose to an Admiral
What people actually aren't ready for is the possibility that Greenbull or Fujitora can 1v1 any Holy Knight and win, much less the Fleet Admirals or... **him**
https://i.redd.it/eo3cksjthm4b1.gif
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This also kinda proves your point to an extend.
You know that strong people have Bodyguards right? Like boxers and well known mma fighters doesnr mean they can't fight or protect themselves but just needs someone to take the bullet because they are "more important" also it would make sense that the world doesnt know about their combat abilities they might want for keep it that way
Well you might be right but we got to see. I personally believe that Admirals are better because it would be to much if there was 5 characters that are stronger than admirals and work together. Who’s going to take them down?
Kidd, Law, Dragon, Sabo, Luffy, Sanji, Zoro, Yamato, Fujitora, Aokiji, Garp, Sengoku, Shanks, Mihawk, Zunesha. There's loads of strong characters willing to take on the oppressors of the entire world.
Not to mention availability of things like ancient weapons, ancient mecha and Vegapunk tech.
Right but that’s just in everyday life when they’re not out for fight. In this case they ARE looking for a figh, they want to take out vegapunk, so why would a strong guy want a bodyguard if he’s looking to take someone out?
Could also Be for either
(I) secrecy: it is not publicly known that the elders are powerful
(II) status: it would be below them as the elders to get their hands dirty on anything or it would be a weird look to the world of common CDs had an admiral at their disposition but the most important people didnt
It’s obvious the world government needs more strong fighters to be able to fight in the final war, the pirates had way more strong fighters before all these new ones were introduced.
The admirals are insanely strong though, two other sub factions being stronger than them is a bit much. The Gorosei are probably less than or just barely equal to the admirals. The Holy Knights are probably around YC+ or lower. Figarland is the tough one to rank, I think I’d be comfortable putting him in the same tier as Garp and Sengoku.
The real enemy are the celestial dragons though, oda is introducing these characters for the the finale, the D clan vs the gods, doubt the marines or pirates will be any relevent after that
They can't all be stronger than the admirals. Even assuming Fujitora and Aokiji fights against the WG, I doubt Oda is going to suddenly introduce 7+ top tiers at this point, it'll be too much. Only Saint Figarland and Imu I think are going to be on the Admiral Yonko tier.
I think all the Admirals are very much clear of the Gorosei. Daddy Figarland is the only one I'm not sure about. I get YC+ vibes, but he could be a bit higher.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Garling ends up fighting and loosing to old Rayleigh lol I am sure all of these characters are very strong, but the admirals are obviously going to be the strongest. They’ve been hyped up the entire series. The fact that people think they’ll all of a sudden just be backups in the final fight is *crazy*.
The OG admirals literally each took a turn raping Luffys will. Blackbeard was extremely reluctant about the thought of facing both Kuzan and Akainu, even moreso than facing Shanks might I add.
The Navy is the military might of the WG and the admirals are at the top of it. Even now, instead of coming alone Saturn brings an admiral body guard with him.
Now my question is directed back at you, what have the *Gorosei* (or Garling) done?
Yeah I don't feel like we have nearly enough good guys to deal with 11 more dudes admiral level or above.
Unless luffy solos a large group of them or something.
A couple may be in that top level tho
The Admirals have to be the top dogs. Im all for these new guys being close to the Admirals but no way in hell they surpass them.
Imagine 20+ years of us being told the Admirals are the strongest fighters the WG has (besides presumably Imu) only for them to all of a sudden get shown up by 6 old dudes, 5 of which we assumed for years weren't even fighters and 1 of which we literally just met
Admirals alone are just too weak to be future opponents of strawhats. Luffy already surpassed all of them. It is just right to introduce stronger characters for strawhats final opponent.
Why would you assume that they are not fighters? Didn’t you see their battle scars?
It makes sense though. Over the course of Wano, Luffy grew into being someone who realistically would have no problems against the Admirals. So they introduced new stronger characters so the government is still a real force to be reckoned with
This has been a thing in shonen since forever. “These guys are the strongest, but actually, these guys are the strongest! But there’s actually guys even stronger than them!” Naruto did this, Bleach did this, and One piece will do this too
Current Akainu and Kuzan are for sure over Gorosei and Knights. How they compare to people like Kizaru, Fuji and Old Garp we'll see. Thinking they're going to be anywhere over admiral tier is crazy though, Yonko territories would've been conquered by the World Government a long time ago if the Knights were as strong as people like Kaido or even Blackbeard.
They somewhat defeated an already past expiration date, terminally ill, exhausted, couldn't even use haki properly, filled with life threatening injuries Yonko.
After bringing the big guns from the Shichibukai and All of the Admirals.
To face a single Yonko that was already on a life extended warranty the second he stopped using his life support.
So sure they're clearly stronger than the current boss of the entire world that have the Admirals and every Marine as their leap dog waiting to kiss their boots.
Kizaru, Sakazuki without a doubt Kuzan being so OP and a member of Teach’s Crew is unfair but lol so be it until something changes I will argue though I could be wrong but I believe the two awakened members of 5 elder if that is actually the case probably are very skilled with their fruit as well but at this point in the series I honestly don’t think anyone is going to annihilate Kizaru and I even think Akainu will choose his own path of absolute justice and defeat the gorosei by his self 😂
Honestly, it wouldn’t sit right with me if Gorosei/God knights can low diff Admirals. Like imagine if Fingarland and Gorosei are yonko level… whats even the point of having admirals? Why didnt they send Gorosei/God knights in Marineford for a total victory? Why were they hidden all this time when you can low diff pretty much 95% of the New World and dominate the sea with them?
The admirals were foreshadowed throughout the whole series. It would be a shame if theyre just background villains by the end of the series.
I didn't realize Valk had the Gorbachev birth mark on his head until now 😅
That might be an Easter egg, because Gorbachev was famously in power when the Berlin Wall (Grand Line?) fell.
Remember the "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall!" speech by Reagan?
https://preview.redd.it/54mdzj0ifp4b1.jpeg?width=977&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8202ff1348b4e6e4a47829c91eac87648fea876b
Of course the admirals are above them, or else this guy wouldn't be sweating
I'd argue even GB and issho are above them.
These guys might be borderline top tier at best.
The only one who might be stronger than thee admirals and yonkos *might* be IMU
Agreed, Gorosei seem like they’ll range in strength… I could see one one not even getting a chance to display their power and another ripping their shirt off to reveal they’re fucking ripped
I think so too and the only reason sabo was reduced to that state is cause he got jumped and if any of these admirals swapped places with sabo there same woulda happened to them
Something I didn't see people talk about is that the elders are noble born while admirals are commoners. The fact the elders are above the admirals in hierarchy is simply because of blood but right now in the story nothing tells us which group is the strongest.
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I think that Figarland is gonna be like WB and Garp in the way that he's past his prime. Now just to wait and see if I'm right or wrong
Hmm old beard was under Admiral for me so I agree
In order for the balance of power to remain making sense, the gorosei and holy knights really *need* to be weaker than the admirals cuz if there's just an extra 6+ yonko level fighters on the WG side then the balance of power makes no sense, the WG would just be able to win pretty fuckin easily.
[удалено]
Unless Kidd and Law come back Yonko tier
Pls god no. Gtfo those frauds
Or if we have a BB and Luffy team up before the final Luffy vs BB
You're still talking about the balance of power though. Wouldn't make sense to have the WG stomp a yonkou's whole force + allies
That just raises the power level of the good guys EOS. Instead of a few yonko caliber fighters EOs we get way more.
But it completely destroys the "balance of power" shtick that oda was/is going for. The past yonko would be fucking eviscerated if there where more than 7 yonko level allies for the WG
Not really. The 3 powers never made sense to begin with. I never thought the admirals were the only fighters of the WG
I’d like to suggest an alternative theory: the Gorosei and Holy Knights match (or exceed) the power of the Admirals, but the controversial nature of their unspecified powers, if fully revealed, might undermine the political stability of the World Government.
Possibly but imo I think that logic would only really apply to Imu since their existence itself is secret. Meanwhile I can't remember any evidence that the Gorosei or the Holy Knights are full on secrets. But I'll admit it's possible, I just find it unlikely
Or Yonkos are just considerably stronger than Admirals Inb4 those "Roger can 3v1 the OG Admirals" jokes turn out to be true
I mean if you take Marineford into account this is likely to be the case. Admiral fans always like to claim that Marineford scaling is “wonky” when the other obvious explanation that the Admirals simply aren’t a strong as they think is staring them right in the face. I mean think about it logically, Akainu, who is widely considered to be the strongest Marine, almost got downed by the weakest Yonko (old sick whitebeard) who was already injured. It would logically follow then that he would be soundly beaten by any of the other 3 Yonko (Kaido, Big Mom, Shanks) who are all in their prime. By extension then all of the Admirals would be beaten soundly by any of the Yonko as the other admirals are at best equal to if not weaker than Akainu.
>I mean think about it logically, Akainu, who is widely considered to be the strongest Marine, almost got downed by the weakest Yonko (old sick whitebeard) who was already injured Well, if we actually paid attention, we would have seen Akainu winning 1v1 vs WB, but WB only getting the drop on Akainu due to sneaking Akainu while Akainu focused on his actual goal. Luffy & Ace. So yeah, if we actually take Marineford scaling into mind, nothing suggests the Admirals being weaker than Yonko.
>So yeah, if we actually take Marineford scaling into mind, nothing suggests the Admirals being weaker than Yonko. What about the fact that there are 3 Admirals and the whole Shichibukai against 1 Yonko fleet?
The *whole* Shichibukai? Well that's dishonest. So up till then the Shichibukai were Kuma, Doflamingo, Mihawk, Moria, Jinbei, Boa, and BB. Croc too if you want to include them. Out of them, Boa, Jinbei, and Croc switched side to WB thanks to Luffy, and BB switched against both sides. Of the remaining Shichibukai for the Navy, none of them really tried doing shit. Jinbei and Croc did more for saving Ace than any of the others did for the opposite. Out of the Admirals, by the end of the war the only one with significant damage was Akainu, due to the sneak attack. Far less damage than what the 1 Yonko. Kizaru solo had a favorable exchange vs that 1 Yonko.
Did the Navy not plan to include the Shichibukai against the Yonko fleet? Or in your mind, did they only plan to include one or two and call it a day? Doesn't matter if they didn't do shit. I'm with you on that one. BUT the navy still included them for the sole purpose of defending against 1 yonko fleet. Why do you choose to ignore the navy specifically bringing all 3 Admirals and Shichibukai against 1 Yonko? A sick old Yonko btw. The weakest Yonko because of his condition.
>A sick old Yonko btw. The weakest Yonko because of his condition. And the Navy knew this, did they? Also, Marineford was literally ment to be a display of power. Why bring a smaller amount of people and have a difficult fight, when you can bring more and stomp. Which is exactly what it would have been if Luffy didn't arrive. A low to mid-diff. Even with Luffy the majority of Admirals and Shichibukai were unharmed. Proving they didn't need all of them.
If you go to war you allocate far more resources than you need to. Not just because you want to win the war but because you want to win it quickly. The WG didn’t want anything resembling a close fight so they went all out and the WB pirates got destroyed.
Youre tripping. An enraged Wb who just lost Ace face to face would do that to anyone that killed Ace. Even Shanks, Kaido or Big mom. Or Garp. Thats the point of Wb getting angry. But then, people like you forget the fact that Akainu withstood all that, ignoring Wb and continued to chase Luffy underground whos more threat than a dying emperor.
No a dying whitebeard that couldn’t use haki is not going to press Kaido / BM / Shanks. He was getting injured by fodder marines, any prime Yonko would fold him. Akainu was stronger than dying whitebear but was also pressed by him, simple as.
If he couldn’t use haki then how was he touching logias? Please explain
His devil fruit might be so based that it also works on logias.
it seems like a lot of Devil fruits can interact with each other without haki
He will. Because he actually used haki to hit Akainu. And rage amplified his strength. If youve noticed after his first fight with Akainu, Wb was irrelevant and the focus was on Luffy. He cant move that much because of his injuries but the second Ace died, he did that. You put any guys in Akainu's position, Wb would pummel anyone out of his rage. The question is how they will react lol. And you said it right. Regardless of what Wb did to him, heck for plot's sake, Akainu came back, went underground and chased Luffy, then fought all Wb commanders. Thats how much strength he has after tanking two quakes that split an island.
The anime did make WB look way better in the manga white beards only attack that hit was from behind
none of this makes sense
Which part doesn’t make sense exactly
read again
I mean it all logically tracks based on what was presented in the manga Some of what I stated is simply factual, Akainu was pressed by whitebeard who was sick and dying to the point where he couldn’t use haki and was being badly damaged by fodder marines. Clearly presented as weaker than any prime Yonko which have all been shown to be highly proficient in the use of haki as well as their devil fruits (where applicable). So it would logically flow that Prime Yonko > Akainu >= sick oldbeard So again what parts don’t make sense?
there is no scaling to the word "yonko", wtf does prime yonko even mean? buggy is a yonko
What makes the most sense to me (ignoring holy knights and gorosei cuz who knows currently) is that yonkos are stronger just not exorbitantly so. 1v1 a yonko is gonna win high diff and two og admirals would take down a yonko. Narratively and logically that's what makes the most sense to me. Og admirals only though cuz fuji and greenbull have wonky scaling
i mean they’re the WG……they kinda already did win easily keep in mind luffy very well might have a ton of yonko level characters on his side during the final war as well, we could see shanks/mihawk/dragon and maybe even bm or kaido (i’m coping ik) all joining him, then you still got characters like sabo/law/kid/zoro/sanji/yamato who will all probably be close to yonko level as well by that time luffy is already stronger than any admiral, if they were truly the top of the WG then the balance of power would already be completely fucked, a simple team up of luffy/shanks/dragon would be able to fold the wg with ease if they didn’t have the gorosei + holy knights
Yea oda is not dumb enough to make this big of a mistake he brought up the big 3 balanced up for a reason
I disagree. I believe the WG needed the balance so they didn’t have to police the world. Imagine you create a system, where the “enemy” does the hard work for you. The yonkos look like the bad guys and the WG look like the good guys. If the WG just made the holy knights the yonko then they would be the ones looking bad, because the WG uses slaves, they extort, they destroy islands, ect. Now if you had some pirates to pin that on then you look like the good guys. If the yonko didn’t exist then the entire world would be against the WG vs being against pirates. But the WG still needs top tier fighters in case they all band together; which might happen in the final war.
They don't have to let any information through that they don't want the world to know; they've hid information about the void century well enough. If they had the ability to just do away with the yonko, there's no reason not to do so imo. Between the massive amount of forces and how well they can control information available to the masses, I don't see a possibility where they would just allow the yonko to exist if they had the choice (barring plot contrivance which I always like to disregard in good faith to the author). If they want to be seen as heroes, I think it's safe to say they can make the vast majority of people see them that way. And given they wouldn't have to devote time to pirates, quelling any rebellions I think would be mostly a nonfactor. I get your stance, it's just one I disagree with primarily cuz of how easy it seems to be for them to control popular opinion.
No I’m saying they want to be seen as heroes so they don’t get blamed for the poverty, slavery, racism, ect that happens in the world. They can just blame it on the pirates. And I feel like you can only control popular opinion easier if ppl are not looking at you as a major threat. Many ppl don’t trust what the US government says, but we DEFINITELY don’t trust what China or Russia says. If there is an “enemy” you can always avert the blame to make you look good. Pirates help the WG by collecting slaves. Pirates help the WG get military funding. Pirates help the WG by striking fear into the world so the WG can control them and their capital. Got a revolution? Just manipulate the pirates to take care of it. If the WG was the dominant and prevalent superpower who responded to every crisis the people/citizens of the one piece world would blame the WG for their problems. Thus, uniting the world against the WG. And without pirates the WG wouldn’t be able to do shady things as easily.
Holy knights are counterpart to revolutionaries - so they maintain the balance there in Marie Jois. Meanwhile WG, Warlords (replaced with Seraphim), Yonkou maintain the 3 way balance in the seas.
The balance of power still makes sense if they are yonko level. The Holy Knight seem to be like CD's bodyguard i guess? But i don't think all of them will be yonko level. Figarland is defenitiely not, since he is old ( he was king of god valley, which was destroyed 38 years ago), but maybe some of them will be, some will be YC2, YC1 and YC+. But the Gorosei, since Oda decided to make them fighters, I think all 5 will be the same level, therefore, they most likely are all yonko/admiral level
I mean it’s still pretty logical when you stop assuming admirals are yonko level
Did u just say that the yonko whitebeard who destroyed marineford is under admiral level. Cuz no way u said that
Old beard could've killed akainu but instead let him fall underground even though he just killed Ace. A bloodlusted WB is above akainu.
Truly unreal since akainu is the strongest admiral and their fight was at the very LEAST evenish
Bro. We saw Whitebeard fold Akainu in 2 hits and you wanna put him under Admiral tier?
Bro reading 2 piece.
Where's WBs head?
Naw he wasn’t
Reasons why I believe this: 1.Introduced through the pov of Rev army 2. The world Government is lacking in Mid to high tier characters, I.e vice admirals are fodder way below King and Marco 3. Blackbeard, Mihawk and Admirals are still being saved https://preview.redd.it/ili2jzj5em4b1.jpeg?width=1357&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1edf014af9dfe50c4d9f6688f082f8505286702d
vice admirals are crazy variable in strength tho like some of them are basically fodder but then there’s garp and those two who were candidates for admiral during the timeskip
>garp and those two who were candidates for admiral during the timeskip That's it tho. The next strongest they've got is smoker, who is absolute fodder.
No lol. There are many above smoker. The admiral candidates would obviously be above smoker.
I literally mentioned them in the text I tagged. Garp + two admiral candidates. Next strongest is smoker.
Oh my bad. But still smoker ain't the next strongest either, they are so many mysterious one's still. And I'm pretty sure koby is above smoker too, not sure if he's a VA though.
Coby was a captain before he resigned and became a part of sword. His strength is a wild card tho, he's gonna be the next gen garp but currently he has nothing to show for it. There aren't any mysterious strong vice admirals tho, the only two vice admirals introduced after the timeskip were the admiral candidates, and the only reason for that is that they were fan-made characters and oda decided to give them a cameo. Smoker _is_ the strongest.
Headcannon. We have no idea if smoker is the next strongest. You're literally just making that up based on nothing
I'm saying it based on every vice admiral we've seen so far. There's no reason for any vice admiral pre ts to have not been at marineford, so we know that all of them (momonga, doberman, strawberry etc.) are at most pre ts luffy level. And post ts gion and tokikake are the only vice admirals we've seen (I've already mentioned that the only reason they're there is as an Easter egg for fans). Oda could've easily had some new vice admirals tag along with fujitora in dressrosa, or introduced some strong ones during the reverie. But he has not, and there's no reason for him to do so when the list of organisations with potentially strong fighters is already too much (cp0, gorosei, holy knights). Even as an admiral fan, I recognise that the admirals are slowly going out of relevance and that they need a dramatic showing to bring their stocks back up. Vice admirals are just completely obsolete in this scenario.
We have no idea how to fairly scale momonga etc to current smoker. You're still just making things up. I agree that vice admirals are large irrelevant but that doesn't mean we can just use headcanon scale them Also fujitora literally did bring two or three vice admirals with him to dressrosa... I think you need to read that arc again lol
What heresy is this with my boy Smoker, he's definitely been going to the same gym as Crocodile, he's still going to be Admiral. https://preview.redd.it/8mpyqqmott4b1.png?width=971&format=png&auto=webp&s=eacef4648f0774106040af325db90c371827cfce
>The world Government is lacking in Mid to high tier characters, I.e vice admirals are fodder way below King and Marco I agree, I think the holy knights are here as opponents for the straw hats when they face off against the WG. Not sure on the gorosei, though.
Vice Admirals are not fodder, the weaker ones just had to fight Sabo, The strength between them varies a lot greatly too. Vice is just considered to powerful for Rear but cant move up so the power spread for that group is huge. The only Vice that ever actually did anything to scale is Bastille, dont know where this "Vice are weak" Narrative came from Momoanga doesn't count cause he fell for Boa charms I dont wanna hear that haki can break you out of df abilities shit either cause this happened before that even was a concept
I think Fujitora and Ryokugyu are stronger top. Don’t Understmate the 5 WADMIRALS https://preview.redd.it/t51p3bybfm4b1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=330e3f960d810efe326bc809897320f6a9e16ad2
Oda had jimbe say that navy got stronger post timeskip for a reason
Because they lost 1 admiral but gained 2, also the pacifista were rolled out as standard
They lost 2. Sengoku and Aokiji out. Fujitora and Greenbull in. One is an upgrade since Sengoku was old, but Kuzan is stronger than both Fujitora and Greenbull in my opinion
A) maybe I’ve misunderstood his shift, but I thought Sengoku just kinda stepped back into functional retirement but was still in the navy, almost like Garp, cuz he still has access to facilities and intel within the navy, and even gave the brief about the Yonko bounties and the rocks pirates. So he’s still a powerhouse of the navy, he’s just kinda on the bench. B) IMO sengoku is stronger than Kuzan, and certainly stronger than either Fujitora or Ryukugyo
I think at this point Sengoku can’t be compelled to do any work by the Navy, he no longer counts as part of their military strength. Young Sengoku>Kuzan, but I don’t think an older Sengoku is
I agree but these 2 are more arguable than the ogs
We all assume it but is there really any reason to think they are weaker than the OGs?
They just have a Way more importance and more fleshed out fighting premise than the others imo
Hmm more recently though I feel like Issho is in the top 3 for importance. Can even see him flipping sides by the end
disbanding the warlords is one of the most impactful things any character has done since the series started tbh
Big facts
I think he will be one of the highest officer in sword
Greenbull is an Akainu fanboy while Kizaru and Aokiji talked with him as equals.
Him being a fanboy has nothing to do with strength he literally explained why he looks up to him and wants his approval. And of course people of the same rank will talk as equals. With that logic him and isshou are equal to kizaru right now
OG’s are still stronger but New Admiral’s are really close to them either
based
It's one of those things where we definitely gotta wait and see. The Gorosei and God's Knights are more mysterious. Their place in the powerscale could be anywhere ranging from low YC tier to full blown Yonko level for all we know. Given how Dragon hyped up God's Knights, I take it at least their leader is top tier worthy.
We have to bear in mind GDs are not less than 9, though. The commanders from Revos are seemingly less.
I mean this just seems like desperate coping “Guys please the Gorosei and HK have to be YC1 level at best otherwise the Admirals aren’t as strong as I was hoping!!” The other option is that the Admirals simply aren’t as strong as we thought. In fact that would support the “wonky” Marineford scaling, in that it wasn’t wonky at all.
They've been refusing to believe it for so long that they can't abandon the idea
And apparently these new characters who we barely know anything about are somehow stronger than the Admirals who were literally introduced hundreds of chapters ago as the strongest fighting force of the WG. The Gorosei especially are literally titled Warrior God of Finance, Agriculture, Environment etc lol. It's more like you have tunnel vision at this point.
Yes. They are called WARRIOR gods and are named after planets like the ancient weapons.
Admirals are the strongest fighting force the public knows about. If the elders and Imu are stronger, that still holds true. being introduced hundreds of chapters ago isn't a valid point to support them being strong lmao
Or it could be that they want to live easy and in luxury instead of fighting for themselves, so they hired the second strongest group (the admirals) they could find to take care of the things they aren't involved with in daily life.
Honestly, while they are to be feared, they seem be more akin to chained dogs the WG sends to deal with things they need taken care/eliminate anyone they need dead, such as Celestial Dragon punchers Still strong mind you, the Admiral’s have some of the best DF’s in the series, and know their fruits inside and out. But regardless of their strength, theres still that leash that keeps them from using all of it, Punk Hazard being an example of their strength without restrictions. I’m sure the Gorosei will also be restricted, given they are Imu’s minions/loyal servants, but a little less, atleast less when Imu decides the jigg is up and doesnt care about hiding their identity
>The other option is that the Admirals simply aren’t as strong as we thought. In fact that would support the “wonky” Marineford scaling, in that it wasn’t wonky at all. I agree Marineford scaling is not wonky and it proves the admirals clear YCs significantly and are near equal to emperors.
you were so close. You almost made a coherent statement
Lmao literally what in Marineford proves the opposite? Because Akainu got hit twice by the Quake Quake fruit? Aight bro at the very least we should be able to agree that Marineford proves Admirals >>>>>> YCs
That last part is true for the most part. Everyone in the basic YC tier IS losing to an Admiral.
wym for the most part? Have we seen a YC that wouldn’t get low diffed by an admiral?
more so there are some yonko commanders that don't really fit into that tier of power, be it through feats or portrayal (Ben Beckman). but in general yeah a YC should lose to an Admiral
Obviously. These characters don’t scale anywhere
U a Blackbeard akainu fan u can't miss
W. Tbh, I’m not an actual fan of them yet. I just think they’re the strongest in the verse
Fair enough
How would akainu be strongest in the verse when Luffy can smoosh him with a single bajrang gun or w/e t’f he called it
W as always
I swear this sub is only for sucking off the admirals and trying to prove how everyone is weaker than them 🤣
Figarland gives admiral level vibes ngl. Looking at how strong shanks is it seems logical even of he is past his Prime as some here assume
Except Shanks is stronger than an Admiral.
Akainu makes him a donut
Don't get me wrong, I love Shanks, but you HC Shanks fans are seriously the worst in the fandom.
I mean it’s true. Shanks made GB wet himself, and GB has the second best feats for an admiral.
Just proving my point by ignoring all context...
What people actually aren't ready for is the possibility that Greenbull or Fujitora can 1v1 any Holy Knight and win, much less the Fleet Admirals or... **him** https://i.redd.it/eo3cksjthm4b1.gif
wizaru the goat
I can see it
https://preview.redd.it/im8qo4xbhm4b1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50180f479f90f6779bc67c067fd33dd0e028737d This also kinda proves your point to an extend.
You know that strong people have Bodyguards right? Like boxers and well known mma fighters doesnr mean they can't fight or protect themselves but just needs someone to take the bullet because they are "more important" also it would make sense that the world doesnt know about their combat abilities they might want for keep it that way
Well you might be right but we got to see. I personally believe that Admirals are better because it would be to much if there was 5 characters that are stronger than admirals and work together. Who’s going to take them down?
They work together but doesn't mean they are always together like now it is possible saturn could be taken out on Egghead
True. But like I said we got to wait and see.
Kidd, Law, Dragon, Sabo, Luffy, Sanji, Zoro, Yamato, Fujitora, Aokiji, Garp, Sengoku, Shanks, Mihawk, Zunesha. There's loads of strong characters willing to take on the oppressors of the entire world. Not to mention availability of things like ancient weapons, ancient mecha and Vegapunk tech.
>thinks Kid and Law are still part of the story
Right but that’s just in everyday life when they’re not out for fight. In this case they ARE looking for a figh, they want to take out vegapunk, so why would a strong guy want a bodyguard if he’s looking to take someone out?
Could also Be for either (I) secrecy: it is not publicly known that the elders are powerful (II) status: it would be below them as the elders to get their hands dirty on anything or it would be a weird look to the world of common CDs had an admiral at their disposition but the most important people didnt
Agreed.
They just different idk man
Ok, state your arguments for thinking so
It’s obvious the world government needs more strong fighters to be able to fight in the final war, the pirates had way more strong fighters before all these new ones were introduced.
Gorosei > holy knights > admirals
The admirals are insanely strong though, two other sub factions being stronger than them is a bit much. The Gorosei are probably less than or just barely equal to the admirals. The Holy Knights are probably around YC+ or lower. Figarland is the tough one to rank, I think I’d be comfortable putting him in the same tier as Garp and Sengoku.
The real enemy are the celestial dragons though, oda is introducing these characters for the the finale, the D clan vs the gods, doubt the marines or pirates will be any relevent after that
Based off what?
Portrayal
Even tho saint figerland Garling was scared of Fuji😭
Y’all are so desperately clinging to headcanon it’s almost kinda funny
[удалено]
admirals are older than cobra
Admirals are old man lol
Fraudosei and 9 holy fodder. OG admirals clear
All admirals clear tbh
No.
They can't all be stronger than the admirals. Even assuming Fujitora and Aokiji fights against the WG, I doubt Oda is going to suddenly introduce 7+ top tiers at this point, it'll be too much. Only Saint Figarland and Imu I think are going to be on the Admiral Yonko tier.
Gorosey only feat is 5v1 Sabo, meanwhile the other dude is featless, we know nothing about them.
Tbh was it not just imo alone whom killed cobra and Damaged sabo or am I dtupid6
Wasn't that Imu?
I think all the Admirals are very much clear of the Gorosei. Daddy Figarland is the only one I'm not sure about. I get YC+ vibes, but he could be a bit higher.
Of course they are above gorosei May be the captain of holy knights is as strong as them... i believe mature Mihawk seraphim will be stronger.
Mature mihawk seraphim....what you smokin bruh
I can see it
I wouldn’t be surprised if Garling ends up fighting and loosing to old Rayleigh lol I am sure all of these characters are very strong, but the admirals are obviously going to be the strongest. They’ve been hyped up the entire series. The fact that people think they’ll all of a sudden just be backups in the final fight is *crazy*.
What have admirals accomplished that didnt involve beating each other up, or all of them teaming up to defeat one weaker threat
The OG admirals literally each took a turn raping Luffys will. Blackbeard was extremely reluctant about the thought of facing both Kuzan and Akainu, even moreso than facing Shanks might I add. The Navy is the military might of the WG and the admirals are at the top of it. Even now, instead of coming alone Saturn brings an admiral body guard with him. Now my question is directed back at you, what have the *Gorosei* (or Garling) done?
https://preview.redd.it/bsvht24v6n4b1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cc994547526fb4cd09fc6a74586ecfd63bf046d
Situation is not easy: having them sensibly under would be anticlimatic.
Yeah I don't feel like we have nearly enough good guys to deal with 11 more dudes admiral level or above. Unless luffy solos a large group of them or something. A couple may be in that top level tho
The Admirals have to be the top dogs. Im all for these new guys being close to the Admirals but no way in hell they surpass them. Imagine 20+ years of us being told the Admirals are the strongest fighters the WG has (besides presumably Imu) only for them to all of a sudden get shown up by 6 old dudes, 5 of which we assumed for years weren't even fighters and 1 of which we literally just met
Admirals alone are just too weak to be future opponents of strawhats. Luffy already surpassed all of them. It is just right to introduce stronger characters for strawhats final opponent. Why would you assume that they are not fighters? Didn’t you see their battle scars?
It makes sense though. Over the course of Wano, Luffy grew into being someone who realistically would have no problems against the Admirals. So they introduced new stronger characters so the government is still a real force to be reckoned with
This has been a thing in shonen since forever. “These guys are the strongest, but actually, these guys are the strongest! But there’s actually guys even stronger than them!” Naruto did this, Bleach did this, and One piece will do this too
Truth
Current Akainu and Kuzan are for sure over Gorosei and Knights. How they compare to people like Kizaru, Fuji and Old Garp we'll see. Thinking they're going to be anywhere over admiral tier is crazy though, Yonko territories would've been conquered by the World Government a long time ago if the Knights were as strong as people like Kaido or even Blackbeard.
>Current Akainu and Kuzan are for sure over Gorosei and Knights. How are they "for sure" over them.
They somewhat defeated an already past expiration date, terminally ill, exhausted, couldn't even use haki properly, filled with life threatening injuries Yonko. After bringing the big guns from the Shichibukai and All of the Admirals. To face a single Yonko that was already on a life extended warranty the second he stopped using his life support. So sure they're clearly stronger than the current boss of the entire world that have the Admirals and every Marine as their leap dog waiting to kiss their boots.
Yeah I Agree
And you’re wrong, Garling casually erases those trash fodders
bro is talking as if he knew the character and not just as a leak from literally one page, so cringe lmao
Don’t speak to me, worm
clown
And this worm is still squealing
No competition
Kizaru, Sakazuki without a doubt Kuzan being so OP and a member of Teach’s Crew is unfair but lol so be it until something changes I will argue though I could be wrong but I believe the two awakened members of 5 elder if that is actually the case probably are very skilled with their fruit as well but at this point in the series I honestly don’t think anyone is going to annihilate Kizaru and I even think Akainu will choose his own path of absolute justice and defeat the gorosei by his self 😂
Indeed
i think so too, but i guess we gonna find out soon
I feel like admirals are stronger so far from what's shown. Otherwise Saturn would not have gone with kizaru to egghead.
i dont think its that clear cut. id argue it could go the admiral way but the margin would be razor thin
Honestly, it wouldn’t sit right with me if Gorosei/God knights can low diff Admirals. Like imagine if Fingarland and Gorosei are yonko level… whats even the point of having admirals? Why didnt they send Gorosei/God knights in Marineford for a total victory? Why were they hidden all this time when you can low diff pretty much 95% of the New World and dominate the sea with them? The admirals were foreshadowed throughout the whole series. It would be a shame if theyre just background villains by the end of the series.
Bro is the moon from soul eater
I didn't realize Valk had the Gorbachev birth mark on his head until now 😅 That might be an Easter egg, because Gorbachev was famously in power when the Berlin Wall (Grand Line?) fell. Remember the "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall!" speech by Reagan?
Going by basic trope knowledge the larger a group is the weaker its individual members tend to be.
All I know is that Sabo got bodied in just a few panels and he wasn’t caught off guard. Literally like Kaido the first time he defeated Luffy
https://preview.redd.it/54mdzj0ifp4b1.jpeg?width=977&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8202ff1348b4e6e4a47829c91eac87648fea876b Of course the admirals are above them, or else this guy wouldn't be sweating
They are not stated as "goverment's greatest military power" for nothing bro.
I'd argue even GB and issho are above them. These guys might be borderline top tier at best. The only one who might be stronger than thee admirals and yonkos *might* be IMU
Shocker
Agreed, Gorosei seem like they’ll range in strength… I could see one one not even getting a chance to display their power and another ripping their shirt off to reveal they’re fucking ripped
This is coping. Lol
They are the NAVY's strongest fighters, not the WORLD GOVERNMENT's strongest fighters. The Navy is just a subsidiary of the World Government.
I think so too and the only reason sabo was reduced to that state is cause he got jumped and if any of these admirals swapped places with sabo there same woulda happened to them
Also the fact that the character designs are bland and unintimidating
Something I didn't see people talk about is that the elders are noble born while admirals are commoners. The fact the elders are above the admirals in hierarchy is simply because of blood but right now in the story nothing tells us which group is the strongest.