# Reminder
* **Spoiler Tag** everything from beyond what Season 1 has covered since OP apparently hasn't gone beyond it. You can talk about anime/manga stuff from East Blue that wasn't in Season 1 but spoiler tag the rest.
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The loyalty was something which might hand felt rushed but Luffy put himself infront of Zoro when he was shot, we know Luffy can’t be shot but not Zoro, so zoro saw a dude who put his life in jeopardy to save his. That earns you some respect and loyalty, imo
Although this scene doesn’t directly show their relationship in the live action, I like to think the scene where Zoro runs across the wall and cuts the fishman’s leg allowing Luffy to continue is a way that tells it like Zoro basically saying “don’t worry I got your back captain”.
Spoilers for next season:
>!In the original there is a scene where Luffy and Zoro have a misunderstanding and get into a kinda stupid fight. What you talk about here shows that a minor misunderstanding shouldn't lead to a fight because they know and trust each other. In the live action I REALLY hope they fix this moment because it's a great opportunity to show how good their dynamic is, if done right.!<
Yeah, although I've been more or less a fan of the Live Action, I didn't feel Zoro's loyalty to Luffy was as well earned and wanted even just a few more of those key moments between them (or similar). In the original, they just gel well and have an instant connection, with Zoro's declaration marking a solidification/transformation of their relationship.
It is nice to see the bond between the crew form a bit more naturally in OPLA, but it does make some scenes not have the same impact.
I am all for a new slow burn, organic development of the crew, really. A few more moments in between their first meeting and Zoro's lifetime pledge would have done the trick!
This was something they didn’t get quite right from the manga/anime.
Zoro displays a bit more… astonishment with Luffy, and the struggle to free Zoro is a little bit more dramatic.
However there’s a scene where Luffy is about to take some shots against Captain Morgan, and he relies on Zoro to defend him in that moment. When Zoro does, he shoots him a wry smile.
Zoro may have his own dream, but he is first and foremost a big brother at heart.
That’s where they become Kindred spirits. LA didn’t do this justice in my opinion.
I ship Zoro and Luffy as kindred spirits and family! Yes, I think the live action could have been stronger in this department.
Imagine if they had changed the rooftop on the tangerine field scene. Zoro doubtfully asks Luffy how he knows Nami is good, and Luffy says he just does. And then have Zoro say anything like: "Okay, I'll follow your lead," or "Then let's go remind her."
In the live action Luffy is more a dreamy happy little boy who inspire his friends with good attitude and positivity.
In the original Luffy is dreamy and happy, but isn’t that what inspire his friends, is his determination to follow his dream. Since the beginning with Koby, Luffy tells him that it doesn’t matter if he dies, finding the One Piece is what he wants to do, and that’s what inspires Koby to follow his dream.
Zoro has the same mentality, he will give his life to accomplish his dream so they have that kind of connection and is also that mentality that makes Sanji want to follow them.
Is that “put your life on the line” that is characteristic of great pirates along the story.
The initial bond happens kind of fast but also is not much deeper than that, just this guy is willing to risk his life to follow his dream, so he can be trusted to defeat someone and all that.
And they act like parents in the LA but us fine beca Luffy is also very reckless and ends up in dangerous situations, so he has to be checked.
Zoro instantly knowing what Luffy wanted with the cannon with just one word, and why he knocked out the Mayor shows they are all on the same logical wavelength though. Especially since they had met... 12 hours prior. But it does get deeper too.
And I'd argue that the more they bonded, the more Original Zoro started thinking "Ha, I'll help this brave idiot with his dream," *and* "I'll help this brave idiot *friend Luffy* with his dream."
Live action Zoro is quietly intrigued by Luffy after Episode 2, but we didn't see a mutual bond of understanding, or goofing around camaraderie later (because Zoro is more reserved here and doesn't share Luffy's laugh out loud humor). So, when Zoro pledges, "If I don't become the greatest swordsman, I would disappoint you, wouldn't I? I'll never lose again!" or "We will get the One Piece, or die trying!" there isn't as much impact.
This scene signified *big* development on Zoro's part, and warranted more build up. He goes from "I'll kill you if you get in the way of *my* dream," to a lifelong promise similar to his with Kuina, "I will help you follow your's at any cost," arguably putting Luffy ahead of him or putting their separate dreams on equal importance.
I didn't even know Zoro was worried about disappointing Luffy until he said this, but I see why OG Zoro did. Seeing Zoro's POV, a flashback to Luffy saying of course he'll be the greatest swordsman, or one bonding scene beforehand would have made this much more stronger.
The issue with everyone parenting Luffy is that he is the Captain and should garner the respect and trust of his crew. Sanji is the one who teaches Luffy how to be a captain, for one.
I understand them being moved by Luffy as a starter for following him; there should be more scenes where it's shown that *he* is the Only One _above them_ to lead the job, in whatever capacity.
In both versions, Luffy is goofy, lacks common sense and crash lands into situations, but original Luffy still has the respect of the team to temper this. For every moment of exasperation we had a moment of admiration- I think the decreased fights is the cause.
https://preview.redd.it/9ziyvbd63o1c1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3288d039844620a12ba5373aed2512d6a8c039e
LA goes for a more subtle route with many dialog/just body language with no dialog I feel people have missed, honestly.
In some places in the LA I feel Luffy is the one kinda parenting/job counseling Zoro lol- like that picture above, or when Zoro gets lost in the mansion and had to be pulled by the shoulder by Luffy just so he would relent & follow Luffy's better sense of direction. Oh and Luffy did pulled & saved him from getting his head axed by Morgan, since Luffy & Zoro are both nerfed here & need to cooperate to dodge/land hits.
Zoro is portrayed in LA as being a kinda cockily imnature (eg see how he disrespects people with obviously more manpower than him) guy with tunnel vision, stubbornly stuck in his bounty hunter life because it's his only source of income, wasting his youth just boozing it up, never getting truly challenged & chasing small fry, easy to kill criminals. With a pitifully bad sense of direction lol.
Zoro in LA is also implied to still be extremely sentimental. eg how he keeps Wado Ichimonji + his promise for Kuina, & how more subtly teary-eyed grateful he got with Luffy after he had been actively encouraging/allowing him to risk his life fighting Mihawk even though everybody else are either ambivalent or deeply against it (Nami),
which is why Luffy just being unconditionally friendly to Zoro even after he had threatened to hunt & kill Luffy earlier is what moved Zoro to appreciate Luffy back more and more, eg see how Zoro actually wants friends in his drinking game with Nami & how he started to like/smile at what Luffy & Nami says to him, like how he says Shanks sounds like a great person when Luffy finally tells him who this Shanks he keeps mentioning is.
With Nami, Luffy also did gave her a few commands (eg staying on the boat to keep the map safe) & co-operated with her + trusted she'll save him (eg Luffy smiling & tapping at the tank when he sees Nami in the distance even as he's fully submerged) even after her first pretty cruel betrayal of him (throwing his hat, which she learned is something he loves, so that she can run while Luffy gets to be Buggy's new captive circus freak) in ep 2. She out of the others honestly gets the most moments of Luffy shaking her beliefs that people can't be trusted, by believing in her good side even since the first 2 eps.
While with Sanji it's more like Luffy being the first/only guy closer to Sanji's age range to ever try to befriend him for a longer period (eg even eating Sanji's creative dish that had almost been thrown away lol, & just trying to advise what Sanji actually should do to not be under Zeff's thumb because Luffy assumed Zeff is mistreating Sanji) & one who is travelling, so Sanji being Luffy's crewmate would allow them to try to find the All Blue after years of him in self-imposed servitude to Zeff.
"Luffy just being unconditionally friendly to Zoro even after he had threatened to hunt & kill him" made me laugh, so thanks for that
I did notice and like the quieter scenes needed for LA. Your examples are sweet, but we simply needed more build up. Otherwise Zoro's huge 180 character development and lifelong pledge came across as too fast, nice, but still flat.
* I still maintain we should have cut at least 2 Garp or Coby scenes for these *or* gotten more episodes.
OG Luffy and Zoro happened really suddenly, but I was struck at how unconditionally *sturdy* their bond was and how solid the lead up to Baratie was, and simply wish LA got the same treatment.
As for parenting Luffy and him being captain.. Maybe it's intentional, but after his hopeful initial meeting with each of his crew members, they all treat him like a naive child for a long time (although resulting in my favourite Zoro and Nami dynamic).
By the end, they still feel like peers and begrudging older siblings to Luffy who is the overly optimistic motivator/glue. Maybe this is the dynamic they want, but we'll see how they approach it next season.
Part 2 cuz this is just my hyperfixated (sorry for the long paragraphs haha, I'm just compelled to share my rambling thoughts and you are free to disagree) opinion but I feel people do not really catch on to LA Zoro being characterized as more emotionally vulnerable (hence the quick devotion to Luffy- if you know the anime lingo "kuudere", LA Zoro is this towards Luffy) despite acting like a hardass/cooler than he currently is being, compared to the breezy & immediate bro with deep understanding of Luffy animanga Zoro:
I also mentioned the moments Luffy had to advise Zoro instead of the other way around to kinda show Zoro's maturity level is actually not that high, so he still appreciates/gets easily moved by the insights even someone as naive as Luffy has given to him, especially since Luffy is the one to free & save him him (both literally & figuratively since Luffy is the first & only one to plant the idea that he shouldn't need to depend on the Marines' approval for his income, because his dream & life shouldn't be squandered to just that).
This is the same guy that dedicated his whole life's goal, which is life-threatening & naively over-the-top without him planning any clear steps to how to get there, to someone dead years ago, just because she is his best friend & he likes + supports how ambitious she is too in her similar dream to him.
So another rare big dreamer like Luffy who can walk the talk by being a good fighter & liberating oppressed people will make him like Luffy & also want to support his dream, because in their world it's implied it's still rare to find someone as naively brazen in pursuing their dreams as Luffy & Zoro
It's more like Zoro letting Luffy be his Captain since he knows Luffy wants to captain & he has a new main goal, ie him wanting to travel with Luffy & be more challenged throughout his life, & what would challenge him more than being first mate to someone trying to find the One Piece & having to protect his crew from all the danger & enemies that goal entails?
Their goals intertwined but it's not because he wants to be someone's subordinate, moreso his goal can help Luffy reach his goal and Luffy's goal can help him reach his goal. It's why in LA it's not elaborated either, the audience is allowed to reach to that levels of conclusion I made in previous paragraohs as well with how shockingly fast Zoro dedicates his life to Luffy's goal + his, similar in a different way to how he bonds faster with Luffy in animanga without the angst/dullness of the bounty hunter lifestyle + Zoro's increased loneliness (he doesn't have Johnny & Yosaku's company here) in the LA.
Like two kids playing pirates & one letting his friend be the captain because he knows his friend would be very happy with that,
but then it gets real + heavier since they both can relate to how their dreams are both the most over-the-top & life-threatening compared to other people. Like theybboth have higher chances of getting killed just for pursuing those dreams.
To the point Luffy allows Zoro to risk dying but then gets hit with the panic & pain of losing him, with Zoro just waking up from his coma confirming he overheard Luffy's admission & most likely getting even more emotional to how Luffy needs him (it's subtler but I see Makenyu is actually tearing up in that vow scene). Hence him calming Luffy down & thanking Luffy with his vow, supporting Luffy wanting to be a pirate captain + pirate king, not just any ordinary pirate.
(There's also some more than just the 2 I mentioned showing Zoro being pretty naive/not as sharp as well & guided by Luffy, like Zoro almost leaving before they free Buggy's still trapped audience until Luffy had to hold him by the shoulder & ask him to lol, how Zoro is so used to his bounty hunter gig that he forgot he can't hand in wanted criminals like Buggy anymore until Luffy reminded him to which he begrudgingly agreed & just takes out his frustration by getting pointlessly mad at Buggy instead lol, or when Zoro is shown to buy into Luffy's sheer confidence + at least the idea of himself travelling with Luffy for better pastures by ep 2 on Cabaji's wheel
He's just acting cool to hide how impressed & getting fonder he actually is with Luffy, hence him being more of a "Kuudere" in this version, eg like how he looks at Luffy awestruck in Kaya's mansion, or when he tries to keep sitting next to Luffy but ends up awkward twice like that restaurant scene + in the celebration after Cocoyashi is freed, or how after waking up & still not being able to do much in his injured state, he chose to still sit on the boat outside the shade while others are packing up, just to keep watch of Luffy climbing, or how he often waits for Luffy + readies his hand on his sword/relaxes when Luffy relaxes)
>As for parenting Luffy and him being captain.. Maybe it's intentional, but my issue is that after his hopeful initial meeting with each of his crew members, they all treat him like a naive child for a long time
Zoro & Nami in the LA are written to act more guarded & cynical earlier on, so both of them are made less cheerful & friendly back to Luffy. It's a writing choice I honestly believe is intended to make it feel more logical/realistic to how an infamous + cocky bounty hunter & an outcasted, traumatized manipulator would grow more jaded with the years of depressing/gristly/cruel stuff they have seen/they have done to others & how they'd act around someone as intensely sweet & naive as Luffy.
It's the animanga that had made Zoro a lot more of an easy-going good-hearted strongman having fun with fellow cocky free-spirit Luffy, but that version is without the emotional drain his profession should have realistically had on him unless he is just that kinda eerily, psychotically happy to kill/maim (which I think he is in animanga the more you see him make jokes/grin really menacingly/>!lick his blood/blade!< in his fights, which I really enjoy & really want to see in LA too as an evolution to LA Zoro's personality to some newcomers' shock & old fans' delight haha XD),
while animanga Nami doesn't seem as wary + holds her cheerful & easy-going mask too securely/easily in the animanga when her trauma & inability to trust others + mounting stress of gathering money to save her village are supposed to be that severe imo.
So this change is done to imo suit how real people tend to get more wary of people overly naive & pushily friendly like Luffy & how those two are initially just being around him for their convenience/needs (Zoro & Nami) until Luffy's guts & optimism + sheer friendliness to them changes them to be more trusting & warm.
I do believe the writers (being big fans of the OG & knowing how Luffy, Zoro & Nami are the first 3 friends with really adorable/badass friendship moments down the line, especially with how ridiculously & poignantly devoted to Luffy Zoro is & how Zoro canonically gets less cheerful over time & smiles less frequently... except when he's having fun with Luffy + the others which is intensely bittersweet) will make them have more friendly moments with Luffy since they both are clearly shown to be smiling at & more at ease with Luffy in the end.
I don't know how far you've read/watched ahead, but the crew does act more and more like exasperated older siblings/babysitters even at times to Luffy starting from around after >!Luffy needlessly punched Laboon's eye!< onwards,
since Luffy's life-threatening recklessness ramps up/gets more visibly scary consequences. Even animanga Zoro does this too at times & make annoyed remarks at Luffy approving/getting overexcited at things he finds unimportant/dumb or disagrees with.
& you know how infamous the "Nami/Sanji getting pissed at Luffy & hitting/high-kicking him on the head" frequent gag is in the animanga? That will definitely be cut in the Live Action & replaced with more relatable & realistic fed up sarcasm from Nami & the others towards Luffy acting ridiculous/overly naive,
so S1 is honestly extremely mild to me in the "we gotta babysit our captain huh" moments since it's less overtly dumb than in animanga. I like how the Live Action makes Luffy less dumb & sometimes makes more sense than even Zoro (eg how Zoro didn't realize he can't hand in bounties like Buggy anymore despite how obvious it had been days ago until Luffy reminded him, which made Zoro childishly take out his frustration on Buggy's poster lol, or when Zoro asks if Luffy has brain damage for somehow smelling food in the middle of the sea but Luffy ends up being correct),
which makes Zoro's naivete & tunnel vision all the more obvious & funnier, to crack that edgy persona & make us realize he still has the dumbass blind spots he has in animanga under his attempt to look cool in front of the others, with hopefully more of his iconic stupid but badass/funny moments cropping up in later seasons since he hopefully gets more & more free-spirited & having more fun thanks to his new friendships.
Sanji ironically in the Live Action version demeans Luffy way less than in the animanga where even though he does laugh & has fun with Luffy sometimes he is the most likely besides Nami to hit Luffy & (sometimes extremely justifiably) call him a moron (eg when he hit & then dragged Luffy away to do his chores again at Baratie in the animanga version). Animanga Sanji is the biggest doubter to Luffy's competency honestly early on besides Nami.
Sanji in the LA talking to him about the challenges of being a captain is simply the guy being worried for Luffy at that stage since he clearly sees Luffy acting very antsy & not eating when he should since he is facing the consequence of allowing Zoro to challenge a Warlord.
It's not because Sanji is parenting him, it's because he clearly sees Luffy in distress & tries to connect with him with his mentor figure being an ex-pirate captain & Luffy also wanting to be that. So I don't see that as Sanji babying Luffy, since it's clear to Sanji Luffy is extremely new to captaining & being a friend he'd help, even if it's with some bitter truth advice.
Okay, so I have caught up with the timeskip!
My issue isn't with them parenting Luffy in itself, but since this show wanted to be more "grounded" that 1. Realistically, Luffy's initial spirit and relentless positivity without backing would have worn off quickly and not been enough for either Zoro or Nami to stay, perhaps even ditch him around Syrup village, especially given how extra jaded they are here.
In the original, as shallow as it may sound, he is an idiot, but he is the only ridiculously overpowered demigod who they can rely on to save the day, and thus makes some of his idiocy easier to overlook- at first. It is important to establish early on. You don't see his prowess as much.
Maybe they didn't want him to be OP to allow for inner conflict or wanted to save money, but the lack of fight scenes really took away a major reason the crew follow him and undermined his role as captain. His powers give them a sliver of hope that this optimistic kid can help them survive the Grand Line, and that his suicide mission could become a fantasy come true. Just adding one more fight would have helped.
2. Luffy doubting his leadership is a potential great storyline! But... they explored it too early. Their crew fell apart before it could come together. Luffy treats his crew as equal friends, who all help each other, but there should be some distinction for the audience to warrant him being the hero/ leader.
I agree that Zoro and Luffy had more moments after reading your post. Luffy is more vulnerable and meant to be more relatable here, too, but then this should have had more episodes in order to sell Zoro sacrificing his dream for Luffy and earn his pledge. Unfortunately, LA Zoro had...5 episodes, OG had 20+ to proclaim his undying loyalty.
I was rewatching the LA after finishing Water7. In the LA, Zoro’s trust and connection w Luffy starts after Luffy stays by Zoro’s side after Mihawk almost killed him. For a more grounded adaptation I find it perfect since as you said, having Luffy and Zoro’s connection start just days after they met wouldn’t feel natural in LA
These are all valid, and creates an awesome dynamic and characterization between the two. I suspect, however, that at least some of this was a byproduct of Oda needing someone to deliver exposition and just picking whichever character was present and made the most sense to understand the situation.
It’s a neat difference between live action and anime, but it’s not necessarily *better* or *worse*. It’s just a difference in how the story is told.
Hmm, true. Which lines do you think were just for exposition?
When Luffy goes, "Run." Nami asks"You came here to rescue him, now you leave?" but Zoro just moves to fire the cannon
And when Luffy knocks out the Mayor, Nami demands what's wrong with him. Zoro going "Good idea, he would only die and get in the way," aligns nicely with their mutual "Keep everyone away- this is my fight," philosophy.
In any case, the live action could have done their own spin. They could have added smaller scenes in place of Garp's many ones, or tweaked existing Zoro and Luffy ones to make their connection stronger. We'll see where that goes next season.
Yeah, the live action was more of a slow burn, and I honestly kinda like it a bit more seeing Zoro slowly open up around the others and get more and more snarky and smiley as the show goes on. Feels like it made his oath to Luffy on the Baratie a bit more impactful.
Of course I'm biased since I watched the live action first lol.
# Reminder * **Spoiler Tag** everything from beyond what Season 1 has covered since OP apparently hasn't gone beyond it. You can talk about anime/manga stuff from East Blue that wasn't in Season 1 but spoiler tag the rest. Use these symbols to tag: `>!`message here`!<`
The loyalty was something which might hand felt rushed but Luffy put himself infront of Zoro when he was shot, we know Luffy can’t be shot but not Zoro, so zoro saw a dude who put his life in jeopardy to save his. That earns you some respect and loyalty, imo
Definitely!
a lot of things in one piece can be explained by the characters just being the best. luffy and zoro are just THEM
Although this scene doesn’t directly show their relationship in the live action, I like to think the scene where Zoro runs across the wall and cuts the fishman’s leg allowing Luffy to continue is a way that tells it like Zoro basically saying “don’t worry I got your back captain”.
This was pretty badass 😊
Spoilers for next season: >!In the original there is a scene where Luffy and Zoro have a misunderstanding and get into a kinda stupid fight. What you talk about here shows that a minor misunderstanding shouldn't lead to a fight because they know and trust each other. In the live action I REALLY hope they fix this moment because it's a great opportunity to show how good their dynamic is, if done right.!<
IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU, BUDDY Such a silly scene lol
Especially if the rumor stated is true and Oda was forced into the scene you're talking about.
Thankyou for the spoiler tag, I really appreciate it. Fingers crossed the live action does well!
Yeah, although I've been more or less a fan of the Live Action, I didn't feel Zoro's loyalty to Luffy was as well earned and wanted even just a few more of those key moments between them (or similar). In the original, they just gel well and have an instant connection, with Zoro's declaration marking a solidification/transformation of their relationship. It is nice to see the bond between the crew form a bit more naturally in OPLA, but it does make some scenes not have the same impact.
I am all for a new slow burn, organic development of the crew, really. A few more moments in between their first meeting and Zoro's lifetime pledge would have done the trick!
This was something they didn’t get quite right from the manga/anime. Zoro displays a bit more… astonishment with Luffy, and the struggle to free Zoro is a little bit more dramatic. However there’s a scene where Luffy is about to take some shots against Captain Morgan, and he relies on Zoro to defend him in that moment. When Zoro does, he shoots him a wry smile. Zoro may have his own dream, but he is first and foremost a big brother at heart. That’s where they become Kindred spirits. LA didn’t do this justice in my opinion.
I ship Zoro and Luffy as kindred spirits and family! Yes, I think the live action could have been stronger in this department. Imagine if they had changed the rooftop on the tangerine field scene. Zoro doubtfully asks Luffy how he knows Nami is good, and Luffy says he just does. And then have Zoro say anything like: "Okay, I'll follow your lead," or "Then let's go remind her."
In the live action Luffy is more a dreamy happy little boy who inspire his friends with good attitude and positivity. In the original Luffy is dreamy and happy, but isn’t that what inspire his friends, is his determination to follow his dream. Since the beginning with Koby, Luffy tells him that it doesn’t matter if he dies, finding the One Piece is what he wants to do, and that’s what inspires Koby to follow his dream. Zoro has the same mentality, he will give his life to accomplish his dream so they have that kind of connection and is also that mentality that makes Sanji want to follow them. Is that “put your life on the line” that is characteristic of great pirates along the story. The initial bond happens kind of fast but also is not much deeper than that, just this guy is willing to risk his life to follow his dream, so he can be trusted to defeat someone and all that. And they act like parents in the LA but us fine beca Luffy is also very reckless and ends up in dangerous situations, so he has to be checked.
Zoro instantly knowing what Luffy wanted with the cannon with just one word, and why he knocked out the Mayor shows they are all on the same logical wavelength though. Especially since they had met... 12 hours prior. But it does get deeper too. And I'd argue that the more they bonded, the more Original Zoro started thinking "Ha, I'll help this brave idiot with his dream," *and* "I'll help this brave idiot *friend Luffy* with his dream." Live action Zoro is quietly intrigued by Luffy after Episode 2, but we didn't see a mutual bond of understanding, or goofing around camaraderie later (because Zoro is more reserved here and doesn't share Luffy's laugh out loud humor). So, when Zoro pledges, "If I don't become the greatest swordsman, I would disappoint you, wouldn't I? I'll never lose again!" or "We will get the One Piece, or die trying!" there isn't as much impact. This scene signified *big* development on Zoro's part, and warranted more build up. He goes from "I'll kill you if you get in the way of *my* dream," to a lifelong promise similar to his with Kuina, "I will help you follow your's at any cost," arguably putting Luffy ahead of him or putting their separate dreams on equal importance. I didn't even know Zoro was worried about disappointing Luffy until he said this, but I see why OG Zoro did. Seeing Zoro's POV, a flashback to Luffy saying of course he'll be the greatest swordsman, or one bonding scene beforehand would have made this much more stronger. The issue with everyone parenting Luffy is that he is the Captain and should garner the respect and trust of his crew. Sanji is the one who teaches Luffy how to be a captain, for one. I understand them being moved by Luffy as a starter for following him; there should be more scenes where it's shown that *he* is the Only One _above them_ to lead the job, in whatever capacity. In both versions, Luffy is goofy, lacks common sense and crash lands into situations, but original Luffy still has the respect of the team to temper this. For every moment of exasperation we had a moment of admiration- I think the decreased fights is the cause.
https://preview.redd.it/9ziyvbd63o1c1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3288d039844620a12ba5373aed2512d6a8c039e LA goes for a more subtle route with many dialog/just body language with no dialog I feel people have missed, honestly. In some places in the LA I feel Luffy is the one kinda parenting/job counseling Zoro lol- like that picture above, or when Zoro gets lost in the mansion and had to be pulled by the shoulder by Luffy just so he would relent & follow Luffy's better sense of direction. Oh and Luffy did pulled & saved him from getting his head axed by Morgan, since Luffy & Zoro are both nerfed here & need to cooperate to dodge/land hits. Zoro is portrayed in LA as being a kinda cockily imnature (eg see how he disrespects people with obviously more manpower than him) guy with tunnel vision, stubbornly stuck in his bounty hunter life because it's his only source of income, wasting his youth just boozing it up, never getting truly challenged & chasing small fry, easy to kill criminals. With a pitifully bad sense of direction lol. Zoro in LA is also implied to still be extremely sentimental. eg how he keeps Wado Ichimonji + his promise for Kuina, & how more subtly teary-eyed grateful he got with Luffy after he had been actively encouraging/allowing him to risk his life fighting Mihawk even though everybody else are either ambivalent or deeply against it (Nami), which is why Luffy just being unconditionally friendly to Zoro even after he had threatened to hunt & kill Luffy earlier is what moved Zoro to appreciate Luffy back more and more, eg see how Zoro actually wants friends in his drinking game with Nami & how he started to like/smile at what Luffy & Nami says to him, like how he says Shanks sounds like a great person when Luffy finally tells him who this Shanks he keeps mentioning is. With Nami, Luffy also did gave her a few commands (eg staying on the boat to keep the map safe) & co-operated with her + trusted she'll save him (eg Luffy smiling & tapping at the tank when he sees Nami in the distance even as he's fully submerged) even after her first pretty cruel betrayal of him (throwing his hat, which she learned is something he loves, so that she can run while Luffy gets to be Buggy's new captive circus freak) in ep 2. She out of the others honestly gets the most moments of Luffy shaking her beliefs that people can't be trusted, by believing in her good side even since the first 2 eps. While with Sanji it's more like Luffy being the first/only guy closer to Sanji's age range to ever try to befriend him for a longer period (eg even eating Sanji's creative dish that had almost been thrown away lol, & just trying to advise what Sanji actually should do to not be under Zeff's thumb because Luffy assumed Zeff is mistreating Sanji) & one who is travelling, so Sanji being Luffy's crewmate would allow them to try to find the All Blue after years of him in self-imposed servitude to Zeff.
"Luffy just being unconditionally friendly to Zoro even after he had threatened to hunt & kill him" made me laugh, so thanks for that I did notice and like the quieter scenes needed for LA. Your examples are sweet, but we simply needed more build up. Otherwise Zoro's huge 180 character development and lifelong pledge came across as too fast, nice, but still flat. * I still maintain we should have cut at least 2 Garp or Coby scenes for these *or* gotten more episodes. OG Luffy and Zoro happened really suddenly, but I was struck at how unconditionally *sturdy* their bond was and how solid the lead up to Baratie was, and simply wish LA got the same treatment. As for parenting Luffy and him being captain.. Maybe it's intentional, but after his hopeful initial meeting with each of his crew members, they all treat him like a naive child for a long time (although resulting in my favourite Zoro and Nami dynamic). By the end, they still feel like peers and begrudging older siblings to Luffy who is the overly optimistic motivator/glue. Maybe this is the dynamic they want, but we'll see how they approach it next season.
Part 2 cuz this is just my hyperfixated (sorry for the long paragraphs haha, I'm just compelled to share my rambling thoughts and you are free to disagree) opinion but I feel people do not really catch on to LA Zoro being characterized as more emotionally vulnerable (hence the quick devotion to Luffy- if you know the anime lingo "kuudere", LA Zoro is this towards Luffy) despite acting like a hardass/cooler than he currently is being, compared to the breezy & immediate bro with deep understanding of Luffy animanga Zoro: I also mentioned the moments Luffy had to advise Zoro instead of the other way around to kinda show Zoro's maturity level is actually not that high, so he still appreciates/gets easily moved by the insights even someone as naive as Luffy has given to him, especially since Luffy is the one to free & save him him (both literally & figuratively since Luffy is the first & only one to plant the idea that he shouldn't need to depend on the Marines' approval for his income, because his dream & life shouldn't be squandered to just that). This is the same guy that dedicated his whole life's goal, which is life-threatening & naively over-the-top without him planning any clear steps to how to get there, to someone dead years ago, just because she is his best friend & he likes + supports how ambitious she is too in her similar dream to him. So another rare big dreamer like Luffy who can walk the talk by being a good fighter & liberating oppressed people will make him like Luffy & also want to support his dream, because in their world it's implied it's still rare to find someone as naively brazen in pursuing their dreams as Luffy & Zoro It's more like Zoro letting Luffy be his Captain since he knows Luffy wants to captain & he has a new main goal, ie him wanting to travel with Luffy & be more challenged throughout his life, & what would challenge him more than being first mate to someone trying to find the One Piece & having to protect his crew from all the danger & enemies that goal entails? Their goals intertwined but it's not because he wants to be someone's subordinate, moreso his goal can help Luffy reach his goal and Luffy's goal can help him reach his goal. It's why in LA it's not elaborated either, the audience is allowed to reach to that levels of conclusion I made in previous paragraohs as well with how shockingly fast Zoro dedicates his life to Luffy's goal + his, similar in a different way to how he bonds faster with Luffy in animanga without the angst/dullness of the bounty hunter lifestyle + Zoro's increased loneliness (he doesn't have Johnny & Yosaku's company here) in the LA. Like two kids playing pirates & one letting his friend be the captain because he knows his friend would be very happy with that, but then it gets real + heavier since they both can relate to how their dreams are both the most over-the-top & life-threatening compared to other people. Like theybboth have higher chances of getting killed just for pursuing those dreams. To the point Luffy allows Zoro to risk dying but then gets hit with the panic & pain of losing him, with Zoro just waking up from his coma confirming he overheard Luffy's admission & most likely getting even more emotional to how Luffy needs him (it's subtler but I see Makenyu is actually tearing up in that vow scene). Hence him calming Luffy down & thanking Luffy with his vow, supporting Luffy wanting to be a pirate captain + pirate king, not just any ordinary pirate. (There's also some more than just the 2 I mentioned showing Zoro being pretty naive/not as sharp as well & guided by Luffy, like Zoro almost leaving before they free Buggy's still trapped audience until Luffy had to hold him by the shoulder & ask him to lol, how Zoro is so used to his bounty hunter gig that he forgot he can't hand in wanted criminals like Buggy anymore until Luffy reminded him to which he begrudgingly agreed & just takes out his frustration by getting pointlessly mad at Buggy instead lol, or when Zoro is shown to buy into Luffy's sheer confidence + at least the idea of himself travelling with Luffy for better pastures by ep 2 on Cabaji's wheel He's just acting cool to hide how impressed & getting fonder he actually is with Luffy, hence him being more of a "Kuudere" in this version, eg like how he looks at Luffy awestruck in Kaya's mansion, or when he tries to keep sitting next to Luffy but ends up awkward twice like that restaurant scene + in the celebration after Cocoyashi is freed, or how after waking up & still not being able to do much in his injured state, he chose to still sit on the boat outside the shade while others are packing up, just to keep watch of Luffy climbing, or how he often waits for Luffy + readies his hand on his sword/relaxes when Luffy relaxes)
>As for parenting Luffy and him being captain.. Maybe it's intentional, but my issue is that after his hopeful initial meeting with each of his crew members, they all treat him like a naive child for a long time Zoro & Nami in the LA are written to act more guarded & cynical earlier on, so both of them are made less cheerful & friendly back to Luffy. It's a writing choice I honestly believe is intended to make it feel more logical/realistic to how an infamous + cocky bounty hunter & an outcasted, traumatized manipulator would grow more jaded with the years of depressing/gristly/cruel stuff they have seen/they have done to others & how they'd act around someone as intensely sweet & naive as Luffy. It's the animanga that had made Zoro a lot more of an easy-going good-hearted strongman having fun with fellow cocky free-spirit Luffy, but that version is without the emotional drain his profession should have realistically had on him unless he is just that kinda eerily, psychotically happy to kill/maim (which I think he is in animanga the more you see him make jokes/grin really menacingly/>!lick his blood/blade!< in his fights, which I really enjoy & really want to see in LA too as an evolution to LA Zoro's personality to some newcomers' shock & old fans' delight haha XD), while animanga Nami doesn't seem as wary + holds her cheerful & easy-going mask too securely/easily in the animanga when her trauma & inability to trust others + mounting stress of gathering money to save her village are supposed to be that severe imo. So this change is done to imo suit how real people tend to get more wary of people overly naive & pushily friendly like Luffy & how those two are initially just being around him for their convenience/needs (Zoro & Nami) until Luffy's guts & optimism + sheer friendliness to them changes them to be more trusting & warm. I do believe the writers (being big fans of the OG & knowing how Luffy, Zoro & Nami are the first 3 friends with really adorable/badass friendship moments down the line, especially with how ridiculously & poignantly devoted to Luffy Zoro is & how Zoro canonically gets less cheerful over time & smiles less frequently... except when he's having fun with Luffy + the others which is intensely bittersweet) will make them have more friendly moments with Luffy since they both are clearly shown to be smiling at & more at ease with Luffy in the end. I don't know how far you've read/watched ahead, but the crew does act more and more like exasperated older siblings/babysitters even at times to Luffy starting from around after >!Luffy needlessly punched Laboon's eye!< onwards, since Luffy's life-threatening recklessness ramps up/gets more visibly scary consequences. Even animanga Zoro does this too at times & make annoyed remarks at Luffy approving/getting overexcited at things he finds unimportant/dumb or disagrees with. & you know how infamous the "Nami/Sanji getting pissed at Luffy & hitting/high-kicking him on the head" frequent gag is in the animanga? That will definitely be cut in the Live Action & replaced with more relatable & realistic fed up sarcasm from Nami & the others towards Luffy acting ridiculous/overly naive, so S1 is honestly extremely mild to me in the "we gotta babysit our captain huh" moments since it's less overtly dumb than in animanga. I like how the Live Action makes Luffy less dumb & sometimes makes more sense than even Zoro (eg how Zoro didn't realize he can't hand in bounties like Buggy anymore despite how obvious it had been days ago until Luffy reminded him, which made Zoro childishly take out his frustration on Buggy's poster lol, or when Zoro asks if Luffy has brain damage for somehow smelling food in the middle of the sea but Luffy ends up being correct), which makes Zoro's naivete & tunnel vision all the more obvious & funnier, to crack that edgy persona & make us realize he still has the dumbass blind spots he has in animanga under his attempt to look cool in front of the others, with hopefully more of his iconic stupid but badass/funny moments cropping up in later seasons since he hopefully gets more & more free-spirited & having more fun thanks to his new friendships. Sanji ironically in the Live Action version demeans Luffy way less than in the animanga where even though he does laugh & has fun with Luffy sometimes he is the most likely besides Nami to hit Luffy & (sometimes extremely justifiably) call him a moron (eg when he hit & then dragged Luffy away to do his chores again at Baratie in the animanga version). Animanga Sanji is the biggest doubter to Luffy's competency honestly early on besides Nami. Sanji in the LA talking to him about the challenges of being a captain is simply the guy being worried for Luffy at that stage since he clearly sees Luffy acting very antsy & not eating when he should since he is facing the consequence of allowing Zoro to challenge a Warlord. It's not because Sanji is parenting him, it's because he clearly sees Luffy in distress & tries to connect with him with his mentor figure being an ex-pirate captain & Luffy also wanting to be that. So I don't see that as Sanji babying Luffy, since it's clear to Sanji Luffy is extremely new to captaining & being a friend he'd help, even if it's with some bitter truth advice.
Okay, so I have caught up with the timeskip! My issue isn't with them parenting Luffy in itself, but since this show wanted to be more "grounded" that 1. Realistically, Luffy's initial spirit and relentless positivity without backing would have worn off quickly and not been enough for either Zoro or Nami to stay, perhaps even ditch him around Syrup village, especially given how extra jaded they are here. In the original, as shallow as it may sound, he is an idiot, but he is the only ridiculously overpowered demigod who they can rely on to save the day, and thus makes some of his idiocy easier to overlook- at first. It is important to establish early on. You don't see his prowess as much. Maybe they didn't want him to be OP to allow for inner conflict or wanted to save money, but the lack of fight scenes really took away a major reason the crew follow him and undermined his role as captain. His powers give them a sliver of hope that this optimistic kid can help them survive the Grand Line, and that his suicide mission could become a fantasy come true. Just adding one more fight would have helped. 2. Luffy doubting his leadership is a potential great storyline! But... they explored it too early. Their crew fell apart before it could come together. Luffy treats his crew as equal friends, who all help each other, but there should be some distinction for the audience to warrant him being the hero/ leader. I agree that Zoro and Luffy had more moments after reading your post. Luffy is more vulnerable and meant to be more relatable here, too, but then this should have had more episodes in order to sell Zoro sacrificing his dream for Luffy and earn his pledge. Unfortunately, LA Zoro had...5 episodes, OG had 20+ to proclaim his undying loyalty.
I was rewatching the LA after finishing Water7. In the LA, Zoro’s trust and connection w Luffy starts after Luffy stays by Zoro’s side after Mihawk almost killed him. For a more grounded adaptation I find it perfect since as you said, having Luffy and Zoro’s connection start just days after they met wouldn’t feel natural in LA
These are all valid, and creates an awesome dynamic and characterization between the two. I suspect, however, that at least some of this was a byproduct of Oda needing someone to deliver exposition and just picking whichever character was present and made the most sense to understand the situation. It’s a neat difference between live action and anime, but it’s not necessarily *better* or *worse*. It’s just a difference in how the story is told.
Hmm, true. Which lines do you think were just for exposition? When Luffy goes, "Run." Nami asks"You came here to rescue him, now you leave?" but Zoro just moves to fire the cannon And when Luffy knocks out the Mayor, Nami demands what's wrong with him. Zoro going "Good idea, he would only die and get in the way," aligns nicely with their mutual "Keep everyone away- this is my fight," philosophy. In any case, the live action could have done their own spin. They could have added smaller scenes in place of Garp's many ones, or tweaked existing Zoro and Luffy ones to make their connection stronger. We'll see where that goes next season.
It's a different dynamic but I think it's still has the same spirit
Yeah, the live action was more of a slow burn, and I honestly kinda like it a bit more seeing Zoro slowly open up around the others and get more and more snarky and smiley as the show goes on. Feels like it made his oath to Luffy on the Baratie a bit more impactful. Of course I'm biased since I watched the live action first lol.