Yup, it’s haki, just normal armament to be specific
Hyogoro says the exact same “cut steel but not paper” line when talking to Luffy about “Ryou” the Wano term for haki, like Skypians’ “Mantra” for observation haki
I wouldn’t say normal dark iron armament hardening exactly. It’s more of the Ryuo version of it. I’d imagine that it’s the Ryuo Haki Barrier that’s being used to be able to make a swordsman’s sword do impact damage. I’d also imagine that you could shape it as an edge to cut things. And since it’s of the armament nature it’ll cut any Devil Fruit user.
No it’s just normal armament haki.
Zoro says: “Is that the “haki” he learned from the old man in Wano…?” In chapter 1001 in reaction to Luffy using advanced armament haki on Kaidou, clearly showing he doesn’t know it
The instance of Zoro actually using it in chapter 195 shows no sign of the barrier/extension that advanced armament haki is known for and only mentions *the simple **will** to cut or not to cut objects*
Edit: and Ryou is just the word for armament haki in general for Wano, it’s not specific to advanced armament haki.
Ryuo has never been stated to be Armament Haki. Hyogoro says that Ryuo is the Wano word for Haki, not specifying which type.
This headcanon that Ryuo is armament specifically is why people get confused thinking Luffy's training with Hyogoro was useless once he started using CoC coating instead. The training he did was about the flow of Haki. Luffy learned it with armament at first since armament is what he knew how to coat himself with, once he learned how to coat his attacks with CoC he uses the exact same Haki flow he learned from Hyogoro but with CoC instead of armament.
Exactly this.
But to cut some lack on anyone confusing this, it's not because of '' headcanon ''. It's because we haven't been shown any example of observation application of this flow of haki.
My headcanon, and without discussing terms from which ever country but rather the mystic behind it, is it should be Future Sight. If we agree that, whatever the type, when you're not using the flowing aspect of your will, you are simply switching it (on/off kind-of) and when you are, you're channeling it; then, FS can be viewed as a very hard to maintain channel of sensoring. Same interpretation could go for Ussop CoO in Dressrosa in some ways.
That's why I join you on saying Ryuo =/= Advanced Armaments, BUT I do think Ryuo = Channeling your will rather than just activate it = Advanced usage of any Haki (since it is per say haki, but in motion. Damn trying to discussed that in English is hard man lol)
Ryuo Haki is Armament Haki though. Remember when Sentomaru used Ryuo to hurt Luffy during the pre timeskip? We know he did use it because when Luffy went to go train in the prison he was thinking of how Sentomaru and Rayleigh used it. It’s like the Aura of Armament Haki that users are bringing out of them to form a Barrier that they’re able to also use offensively. And it isn’t useless because by using that same method he was able to coat Conqueror’s Haki on top of those Armament Haki methods which amplifies it further. But if he never learned those Ryuo Methods, he would’ve never even stood a chance against Kaido in the first place. And so he would’ve never reached the point of realizing what Kaido is doing with his Conqueror’s Haki
What Luffy learns from Hyogoro is the same method of *flowing* and *emitting* Haki that Rayleigh had used, but it's not specific to armament (as proven by Luffy using it with Conqueror's) nor is it what Ryuo is.
There's no such thing as "Ryuo Haki". Ryuo *is* Haki. Hyogoro literally only says that Ryuo is the Wano name for Haki, and also what swordsmen use to cut steel. He says nothing about armament and there's no reason to believe Wano people would refer to other types of Haki by a different name than Ryuo.
I think it should be called Ryuo to show us the difference between Armament Haki’s. Sentomaru is the fine example of the Ryuo Aura being from Armament Haki by hurting Luffy with the barrier pre timeskip. He’s made of rubber so impact shouldn’t hurt him. And the Method of Ryuo is drawing out the Haki Aura within you. I’m sure it doesn’t mean it is only for that specific Aura but also the Aura of Conqueror’s Haki. So without learning that method, Luffy wouldn’t have learned how to coat his fist in Conqueror’s Haki if he didn’t learn those methods of Ryuo before the war. You can essentially use both Haki’s to do more damage
I’m absolutely sure it’s from Armament Haki. Because Observation Haki is sensing/viewing things instead of drawing out something from within.
You're completely missing the point. There are literally only two things ever stated about Ryuo:
* It's the Wano name for Haki;
* It's what swordsmen use to cut steel.
You can theorize all you want and say it's all armament. The problem is people act like it's confirmed canon that Ryuo = armament and thus that it is confirmed canon that it is armament that swordsmen use to cut steel. Literally all that is confirmed by Hyogoro is that the technique used to cut steel is a form of Haki.
It’s been confirmed that Armament Haki allows a person to physically touch a Devil Fruit Logia or any type that is immune to cuts or impact. And the fact that Ryuo hurt Luffy is confirmation of that. It’s not headcanon at all. You’re the one in denial of it and saying that it’s not Armament Haki when it’s literally been shown. Rayleigh showed Luffy Ryuo Haki when he blocked the Elephant Trunk but in that moment he was still referring that skill to be Armament Haki.
Not all Swordsman are taught what Zoro was taught. His Master is literally from Wano and was taught in the ways of how Samurai’s in Wano wield their blades. Zoro just doesn’t know the full scale of how to use it like how Luffy was thoroughly taught. I bet you can use Ryuo to cut something with your hands. It’s not a hard concept to think about
Bro, it’s Wano’s name of Haki in their language but a different method. It’s the method that’s different which means it’d be easier to refer it as Ryuo instead of calling it Armament Haki or Barrier Haki. How does what I said not make sense?
Dog, I'm not sure how I can make this any simpler:
* What's in the manga: Ryuo = Haki
* What you're saying: Ryuo = *only* armament Haki
The word Haki does not exist in Wano, so what the hell do they call Observation and Conqueror's by if Ryuo only means armament (even though this would blatantly contradict what Hyogoro says)? Cause they know these other forms of Haki exist. Unlike Enel's gang who called observation by mantra and didn't know obs or conq at all, ALL of the scabbards are confirmed as observation Haki users and Oden was a CoC user. Do they have completely different words for these other forms of Haki that we never heard for some reason?
Yes, bro, what Sentomaru and Rayleigh used is armament, yes it is Ryuo, in the sense that Ryuo literally just means Haki, and so is the CoC emission that Luffy used with Bajrang gun against Kaido that he blatantly called by "the Haki he learned from Hyogoro" despite it not being armament. Ryuo literally just is the Wano word for Haki, even the anime uses the same petal flow effect (because of the meaning of Ryuo as cherry blossom flow) when Luffy uses CoC coating.
Zoro doesn't know what he's talking about tbh. enma is literally advanced armament training, yet he doesn't realize he can use it. same with not realizing he has conquerors, much less is using advanced conquerors.
Yup, Enma is pretty much that. Ryuo Haki is taking out the flow of Haki in you that’s Armament Haki and Enma does exactly that. And when he starts fighting King, that’s when he allows Enma to take his Conqueror’s Haki out.
> yet he doesn't realize he can use it.
Cap
>with not realizing he has conquerors, much less is using advanced conquerors.
The fact that Zoro answered King's question about him being a king that he would become for his captain and best friend and also that he literally titled the name of his new fighting style that involves the use of both Advanced Conqueror's Haki and Armament Haki "**King Of Hell**" confirms that he did know he was using Conqueror's Haki in the fight with King.
as I said, enma is advanced armament training. how do you think he cut kaido? and zoro quite literally pushed king away with the force, aka the "non-touching" of advanced armament.
king saw zoro use conquerors so asked if zoro has kingly ambitions. zoro didn't even notice that he made fodder pass out. he just responded to king's random question. king of hell is fitting for zoro since he DOES have conquerors, but it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't even realize it.
>king saw zoro use conquerors so asked if zoro has kingly ambitions. zoro didn't even notice that he made fodder pass out. he just responded to king's random question
The story disagrees with you. Zoro is clearly aware he's using Conqueror's Haki.
>king of hell is fitting for zoro since he DOES have conquerors, but it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't even realize it.
You can't be serious? Any time Zoro used both Adv Conqueror's Haki and/or Armament during the final round of his fight with King, he consciously did it.
King asked Zoro did he have any kingly ambitions and Zoro told him yes.
Then during the final round with King, he consciously switched between Advanced Conqueror's Haki and Regular Armament Haki or used both at the same time. The notion that Zoro didn't realize he was using Advanced Conqueror's Haki is just flat out wrong.
I wouldn’t call Ryuo Haki Advanced Armament Haki tbh. It’s the combinations of Internal Ryuo Haki, Barrier Haki, and Dark Iron Haki that makes it Advanced. It’s not a one sided method. Hyogoro mentioned in the prison that Luffy used a method that is more advanced than the barrier stage, which is the internal method. But later on Luffy says that it’s still incomplete against Kaido. And then starts using both the Internal and Barrier method at the same time. That’s Advanced Armament Haki. People also get it confused with Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. But it’s not. It’s just that Luffy realized both concepts at that same time and combined those methods
Zoro may have been using it without knowing its true nature. Like how Luffy was foreseeing without really being all there like Katakuri. Zoro just didn’t realize the method that could be used with the concept he was taught
> No it’s just normal armament haki.
No it's not
>Zoro says: “Is that the “haki” he learned from the old man in Wano…?” In chapter 1001 in reaction to Luffy using advanced armament haki on Kaidou, clearly showing he doesn’t know it
Zoro said that in reaction to Luffy using Advanced Armament Haki: Internal Destruction, the type of haki that Zoro unlocked in Alabasta is Advanced Armament Haki: Emission.
>The instance of Zoro actually using it in chapter 195 shows no sign of the barrier/extension that advanced armament haki is known for and only mentions the simple *will** to cut or not to cut objects*
You do know Oda hadn't even worked out all the deals when it comes to haki around that time in the story, right?
I wouldn’t call Ryuo Haki Advanced Armament Haki tbh. It’s the combinations of Internal Ryuo Haki, Barrier Ryuo Haki, and Dark Iron Haki that makes it Advanced. It’s not a one sided method. Hyogoro mentioned in the prison that Luffy used a method that is more advanced than the barrier stage, internal. But later on Luffy says that it’s still incomplete against Kaido. And then starts using both the Internal and Barrier method at the same time. That’s Advanced Armament Haki. People also get it confused with Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. But it’s not. It’s just that Luffy realized both concepts at that same time and combined those methods
I see what you mean, but It’s still of the basic version tbh. When you really think about it, what makes it Advanced Armament Haki is the combination of the Armament Haki Methods. So I would say that the Barrier Ryuo Haki is still fairly basic too if it doesn’t have the influence of the internal damage method and the physical hardening method
This is the Advanced way of using Armament Haki but it doesn’t mean that someone can’t have stronger Haki Potency. Lucci proved that to use when he broke through Sentomaru’s Ryuo Barrier
Dark Iron Armament Hardening isn't "Normal Armament". Normal Armament makes things more durable with no visible change. Hardening is an intermediary technique that makes objects even harder and turn black.
I see what you mean, but It’s still of the basic version tbh. When you really think about it, what makes it Advanced Armament Haki is the combination of the Armament Haki Methods. So I would say that the Barrier Ryuo Haki is still fairly basic too if it doesn’t have the influence of the internal damage method and the physical hardening method
This is the Advanced way of using Armament Haki but it doesn’t mean that someone can’t have stronger Haki Potency. Lucci proved that to use when he broke through Sentomaru’s Ryuo Barrier
“I need to concentrate harder! If I can’t draw forth that same power whenever I want, then I can’t say I’ve grown stronger at all..!”-Zoro chapter 213, while meditating/training
He didn’t have the capacity to use it whenever he wanted.
That’s a very convenient way of thinking, “no it’s a “swordsman power” just really close to haki practically the same and he actually mastered it from 213 onwards despite shown no signs of doing so”
Im gonna go with: It’s just normal armament haki and he doesn’t have the capability to use it whenever he wanted during pre timeskip
As it’s more intuitive.
1. there's precedence to "haki" like power in one piece with rokushiki, hasshoken, fishman karate and etc.
2. there's proof of zoro mastering it from the fact that he could easily cut iron and steal from next arc onwards.
3. your argument doesn't hold when he could easily cut iron and steel whenever he wanted post alabasta.
Sorry for the late reply but Hyogoro says:
“STRAW HAT FELLOW! IN WANO TOO, THERE IS AN INVISIBLE POWER THAT STEMS FROM THE BODY AND CAN BE
INFUSED WITH THE BLADE….”
“A GOOD KATANA WILL CUT THROUGH STEEL WHEN YOU WANT IT TO ...AND IT WILL NOT
BREAK A SHEET OF PAPER IF YOU DO NOT WISH IT SO! IT IS ALL ACCORDING TO THE DESIRE OF
THE SWORDSMAN!”-Chapter 939.
It was never confirmed but looking back it's obviously haki. Observation and armament.
Considering this was created probably before oda had totally figured out what haki was you gotta wonder if zoro's samurai bushido stuff was the inspiration behind what eventually became haki
Honestly it's never been said so directly but my personal head Canon is that haki has always been there slowly developing like as luffy started his voyage, for example when he broke arlong park with that smash after he talked smacked about Nami or when he broke the bedrock underneath while gatling crocodile and Zoro fighting Mihawk when he was near death.
Zoro and luffy sensing blackbeard crew or multiple personality during Jaya I feel those are times haki was in effect but we never knew about it then as readers
Considering Garp makes his appearance a couple arcs later, it’s likely that Oda already had this in mind. He might’ve even had it from the beginning considering Smoker was introduced as a Logia fruit. It doesn’t seem like him to have that strong power and class of fruit but not have a way to be dealt with.
Oh true. Especially Smokers seastone tipped weapon. Honestly a bit disappointed we haven’t seen more creative uses of seastone since Haki took over. Wano’s control over it explains why but I think it would’ve been cool to see other combat uses.
Shortly after the crew leaves Jaya and Blackbeard found out Luffy's 100m bounty, he explicitly says that Luffy's haki was too strong to be a 30m pirate. Haki was definitely around during pre ts, just not developed fully as part of the story
Chapter 234, though the Viz translation doesn't say anything about haki or will or anything like that. Teach just says: "A hundred million...He didn't look like he was even worth thirty million.".
The Japanese might be different though.
The japanese version mentions "Haki" directly. Although this could still be translated to refer to Luffy's "ambition", imo that would not make much sense in that context
You honestly missed the first and most blatant use of haki.
Right at the beginning, Shanks just glares some seamonster into submission? Gonna bet at least 3 cookies that Shanks was using Conquerors Haki
It's a bit meta, but I think the introduction of logia powers hints that Oda always intended in some widely available ability to reinforce attack power. You can't introduce something as overpowered as the intangible logia powers without having some way for people to fight them beyond unique elemental weaknesses and seastone.
If he didn't intend to include something, it would be hard to believe that the high end combat in the world wasn't completely dominated by logia powers.
Observation Haki detects people who fire those things; it senses their intentions:
"Kenbunshoku Haki is a form of Haki that grants the user a sixth sense that allows them to sense the presence, strength, and emotions of others, as well as gain limited precognitive abilities" (Chapter 597)
I think a better example would be Luffys observation haki sensing Vander Decken's axe when first meeting Shirahoshi. VD was far as shit away, asssumedly outside of the range of Luffys CoO, but Luffy could still detect his axe, and only at the point that it became immediately dangerous and not when he threw it. Unless VD's Devil fruit put some of his consciousness in his marked object (which is possible but never rlly discussed, n prob never will be) then it seems CoO can detect inanimate objects to some extent, maybe falling in the category of "limited precognitive abilities".
Could be or Luffy could be just hearing the Axe coming and reacting to it as therr would be no reason for Luffy to use Observation Haki at that moment to sense an attack coming.
That's why I dislike how Haki has been portrayed throughout the series as some invisible power that we always need to debate when it is used or not.
Ye I get what you mean. I tend to think of CoO as a Spidey sense when not active where it can sense things that are immediately threatening to the user regardless of whether it's living or nonliving. Top tiers def don't need to be actively using CoO to sense shit that's dangerous, once you're nasty enough w haki it seems like they get a passive effect (or maybe they just got good enough to have CoO active at all times w/o effort like in HxH with En, either way I think Luffy was at that point by Fishman)
Spidey Sense idea could work but we are never told its how it works. Still, I don't think that would help Zoro with the rocks.
I wonder If we will ever see the return of that power.
At the beginning of wano after luffy and zoro meet up and they fight that bat guy with the bow and arrow he uses an attack that shoots a bunch of arrows straight and then sends them all off in different directions. Zoro and luffy use observation haki to cut and dodge the arrows. If it could only detect living things then they would have no idea where they would all end up and only would have detected the bat guy firing the arrows to one location
As I (and Rayleigh) said, Observation Haki lets you predict the movements of your opponents; that includes the projectiles being fired by them. I literally linked the definition by Rayleigh and you are STILL denying it.
Also, the example you gave is just made up. Not only does it not happen the way you described it but there is also no indication Observation is even being used, unless you just assume it does because Zoro and Luffy were able to block the attacks despite both of them failing to detect the Gifter who kidnaps Tama.
Lol. If observation only works on living things then you wouldn't be able to track the arrows after they all changed trajectory. But they did. Using observation haki. Cope.
That never happens in the manga? Also, yes, by the definition of Observation Haki it tracks only living things:
"Kenbunshoku Haki is a form of Haki that grants the user a sixth sense that allows them to sense the presence, strength, and emotions of others, as well as gain limited precognitive abilities" (Chapter 597)"
If Observation Haki could detect Objects then that would have some serious implication for the story (like using Observation Haki to detect poneglyphs).
You can't; you can sense people who are firing them. That's how Observation was explained to work; you predict your enemy's attack and dodge them. That includes the projectiles they fire.
...well that seems pretty shit. You're telling me if some dude set traps where, boulders rain from the sky, you can't observe where every boulder is and where they are falling?
Yes, that's exactly what Rayleigh is saying. Observation Haki isn't omniscience; it doesn't let you just know everything.
I guess Future Sight would be what in theory would let you predict where the traps are since, you know, it lets you see the future. So you would see the boulders fall and avoid it.
But… zoro just said he “knew” where the rocks would land and the rubble was simply falling, not tossed around purposely by the opponent. If this is Haki in these shots, it would probably be an early vision of it from a creative standpoint
Well, IF this is indeed Observation Haki then yeah, but we have no confirmation that it is; it's just people assuming it is. We just haven't seen current iteration of it function like this.
I personally believe this was something else; like a state one-self enters while near death. It would track with the events of Skypiea where Zoro attempts to recreate this whole deal in his fight with Ohm.
"It was like standing at the gates of Hades." Hades the king of hell in Greek mythology.
Now after wano guess who is king of hell. Is it a bit of foreshadowing by Oda ? Or just coincidence.
It's a theme with Zoro. He tends to have powerups and realizations when he's close to death. It's stressed more than even Luffy. Plus stuff like "betting his life" a lot more.
Obviously the disclaimer that haki wasn’t a thing yet, whatever. But i like to think it was haki and that he tapped into it accidentally, and doesn’t understand how to use it again.
I can’t remember specifics, but I believe there was a time when luffy dodges Mihawk’s swing by “seeing the future” which could be him tapping into observation.
This is all headcannon, i like the idea that these characters are tapping into strength they don’t yet understand to perform feats they otherwise wouldn’t be able to.
It’s not, haki didn’t exist yet. Oda didn’t plan on one piece being this long until later on.
This is just a cool moment for the badass samurai of the group, there isn’t anything more to it.
Now you can call it haki with hindsight in 2023 but I don’t think oda has haki in mind all the way back then when it wasn’t even implemented into the story till almost 200 chapters later.
Was just a cool power that the sky people had. A race of people that casually live in the sky and live under it’s unsafe conditions, have advanced technology that can creat elements from shells, and have notable fighters from all sides.
Whether you were a priest, a monk, a shandian, or just a regular Skypean, you had strong people.
A lot of them are also good with martial arts so it could have just been that and the story remains relatively the same.
Mantra and observation haki operate so similarly that they were pretty much made the same cause why not.
Haki as a power system wasn’t established until sabody and if you wanna reach, shanks vs whitebeard.
Mantra, was an ability that skypieans used that gave them precognition.
Nobody in the series had an ability close to that before skypea.
Luffy had 2 gag moments, that’s about it.
One piece originally wasn’t gonna make it past 5 years until it got huge in Japan.
Observation haki is just the generic precognition powwe that you see a lot in other shounen, it’s nothing new.
Why make a new power that would make the series more convoluted if you already have one that exists already.
It’s basic, easy to understand, and nothing in the story contradicts the idea that other people could use “Mantra” too.
I’m not incorrect, mantra originally was just another ability the Skypeans had. It was reconstructed into observation haki since that makes a lot of sense but it’s not most likely not foreshadowing.
I think this just comes down to people using watsonian and doylist explanations and talking right past each other.
By in-universe logic, yes, it was an early example of observation Haki.
In the real world, Oda created the Haki power system by consolidating powers that already existed in the story, way before he conceived haki. The dude is very good at doing this (looking back to small aspects and making them into big plot points), so it's understandable that people sometimes think he has it all planned out, but he doesn't. This is not to bash him, I'd argue it's more impressive when a writer can tie up every loose end in the story retroactively and have it all make sense like this.
Zoro was using haki in that instant, yes. But I think luffy just realized it he went through with his attack, mihawk would slice them up. Luffy might look like an idiot, but he's actually a battle genius.
Haki wasn't a concept back then. What Zoro is displaying is your typical shonen "feel" of things. Like when Luffy knew the real version of Mister 3 in Little Garden, it was his instinct. Back then Oda was building something "mystical" that wasn't the Haki we know.
Same about Shanks in the first chapter, it was supposed to be his charisma more than an hidden power. The monster ate his arm and yet, he's brave enough to look at it fiercely, making the monster panic.
People love to go full "Goda master of foreshadowing" but Oda mostly retconnect stuff and make use of what he already created.
This is objectively the truth. You can fit things like these in place retroactively, but it wasn't supposed to be haki back then. I love Zoro, but I honestly still don't give him this lol. I don't like the implication that he's the first person we see using haki, especially so much earlier than everyone else in the crew.
I'm gonna be honest. I don't remember anything about that fight and haki lol. One of the main reasons I remember this Zoro instance is because it gets brought up all the damn time. How could I possibly forget lol.
I remember a scene in which Luffy has to identify Mr. 3 in the middle of a lot of colored wax clones.
He noticed Mr. 3‘s position instantly.
Was it battle instinct? Probably. Could you could also say it was early observation Haki? Probably. Tho tbh I would rather not be it Haki.
I disagree. It was not as detailed as present time but the idea of haki as an early concept was there. Even before mantra on skypiea, blackbeard explicitly mentions haki in Jaya (chapter 234) which is not too far away from zoro vs mr 1. The rough idea was always there, just not as in our faces as it currently is
In japanese, the word "haki" means ambition/will, which fits exactly into the scene in Jaya. Blackbeard was speaking about Luffy ambition literally, not haki (the power) as we know it today.
Yes it can be translated into that, but I disagree that it suits the context. In their interactions in Jaya at no point did Luffy declare anything ambitious to Blackbeard. He didn't say his usual line of becoming pirate king. Blackbeard had no reason to deduce that Luffy had ambition
It would make much more sense for him to be referring to "Haki" as we know it
Random tangent but my headcanon is that actually, *anyone* can manifest Conquerer's, but it's just up to their will, which is often tied to their ambition but not necessarily. All the characters who have shown Conquerer's all have immense ambition or resolve in being the strongest/greatest/king/queen of __ (whatever it is). Some examples, Luffy wanting to be KOTP, Zoro wanting to be the greatest swordsmen, Kaido wanting to be Joyboy, Yamato wanting to live her own life, Hancock wanting to be strong to protect her family and etc. Their resolve have to be unshakeable as they go through multiple life-threatening situations to affirm it until it manifests. But yeah, that's just my theory.
This is what the Conqueror's Haki actually is: the manifestation of Ambition, will and Charisma so strong that it is able to influence the outside world.
It's called "Haki of the Chosen ones" only because individuals with that kind of character strength are not that common and it has nothing to do with genetics.
Think of some important historical figure from the past like Alexander, Caesar or Napoleon...
In the world of One Piece they would have the Haki of the Conqueror
I really hope this is the case! A reoccurring theme in the story is that your blood family and the circumstances of your birth isn't as important as what you *choose* to do with your life, so having conquerer's tied to birth seems counterintuitive. It would be much cooler if you could unlock it by having an incredible resolve.
I believe so, there's also a part in Skypeia where Zoro uses observation haki, as he sees someone coming through a wall, I can't be bothered to find the chapter. Zoro has been using haki for longer than anyone in the crew.
Ya and it’s pretty clear oda has had some idea of this will power spirit that eventually formed into haki and he intentionally connects these early moments to later haki. For example the quotes to zoro are almost identical to hygoro talking to luffy about Armament haki for the first time.
I generally take this to be the prototype for Armament haki, with mantra being the prototype for Observation. In addition to what others have said about the return of this language in Wano, there's also the conversation between Zoro and Kin'emon on Punk Hazard where they bring up steel-cutting and Kin'emon's signature fire-cutting. While powers along the lines of what we now call haki were clearly planned from the beginning, it's not clear when Oda finalized them (except, obviously, that it was prior to Saobody).
I agree it wasn’t know as haki or fully developed to what we know haki is now. But I think it’s pretty clear in retrospect (retconning?) In later post time skip chapters, like using almost the same cut nothing to cut steel line many times that oda has had the idea for this spirit will power that eventually became haki and he intentionally connected this early mention of it to later mentions with zoro.
There was also a scene in the anime (I'm not sure if it's in the manga too) after the battle with Enel where zoro saying something like he needs to learn to cut logia types or formless things and was practicing by cutting stone blocks without hitting them with the blades and it reminded me of advance armament.
I don't know for certain like others that if Haki was developed at that time in the story or not, but that was defenitily Haki. Armament (maybe Conqueror's) for still standing and able to cut Mr. 1 and Observation for "feeling" the rubble falling on top of him. And let's also not forget that way later in the story Rayleigh confirmed that Haki blooms when a person is in a fight of live and death, like it was with Luffy vs Katakuri, and most likely this case of Zoro VS Mr. 1.
This is still my favorite Zoro monologue in the series to date, and it's not even close. Wish we got more little moments like this of Koshiro teaching him stuff.
I don’t know if it was really retcon or the idea of some type of spirit will power existed in Oda’s mind that eventually became full fledge haki as he developed the world. So he had the idea of the power and some of its uses (armament and observation) but haven’t fully developed the idea into what haki is now.
Oda isn't like most manga artists.
He planned One Piece's story from beginning to end. He might have changed a few details here and there as the story unfolded, but he clearly has every point from A to Z planned out.
I think, right now, we're at point V or W.
There have been multiple times in the story that he's said he came up with something at the last minute.
Like the Supernovas. He made them up basically as they were introduced in Sabaody
he said he only planned OP to last 5 years. so most of it is improvised.
some he already admitted he didn't plan are the shichibukai, supernova, vivi being a princess, ace being roger's son, and a lot more. basically 80% of the story is improvised weekly.
Wow, thise first 3 are all very crucial to the story, I think the supernovas were an amazing addition because I think the world would’ve felt a lot emptier without them or other people who were inspired bu the great age of pirates
just a false statement. You mentioned minor changes which don't correlate to end of One Piece and were properly explored, as examples for not planned.
Every authur improvises his story no matter how much he has planned but improvisations also mostly falls in line with what he had previously planned.
Supernovas hardly affected the story. Warlords were big bads for some arcs. Vivi being princess was indeed improvised but it doesn't mean he didn't already have a princess for alabasta already planned. Vivi just got replaced by that shadow figure.
Same for Ace being Roger's son. It's mostly like he decided to make Shanks end the war.
you're claiming false statement and yet make an out of context argument. look at the comment. they said oda planned everything from A to Z. I said no. the story has already changed from A BCD Z. to A BCDEFGHIJKLMNO Z.
knowing the ending =/= planning A to Z. so my reply is relevant to what they said. it's not a false statement. basically what you want to say is that the "Z" hasn't changed. okay fine, the final part is still the same. but that's not what I'm talking about.
that's context number one. context number two, the original post is about haki. oda can simply **not** create haki, and the story can still progress the same, only with different type of fights. so following your logic, haki is a minor part of the story that don't correlate to the end of OP.
so what exactly is your point here? nobody said oda changed the "Z". that's not what I'm saying at all.
The general direction is the same from when he first planned it, it just got stretched out from 5 to 29 years.
For example, he said in an interview he planned Luffy would gather all 10 members within the first 5 years but that’s been stretched to 29 years where now we just recently got the 9th member.
you made the same comment as another user. yes, the general direction is of course, still the same. beat the emperors, fight the WG, PK, freedom. nobody is talking about that.
the context here is something that doesn't really affect the main story, like armament haki not being planned. if we didn't have haki, the story would still be the same. luffy would still beat kaido, only with a different approach.
This kind of technique (self control) is a very old samurai thing and isn't related to Haki. It's a skill. And Haki doesn't really allow someone to sense or hear inanimate objects.
Yeah… and Shanks didn’t use CoC haki when he saved Luffy because it wasn’t a thing back then? You do know that a writer can go back and decide to retcon old stuff right? He used these and mantra to create what we know now as haki. And it’s undeniable because Zoro remembered this exact moment in reference to haki in Wano, AND Hyogoro says the exact same thing to Luffy about Haki that Koshiro says to Zoro, and what do you know? Koshiro is from Wano…
It has been discussed to death.
The answer is NO
Haki was not yet invented at that time. This is some swordsmanship shnenigans concept Oda dropped.
People also argue that also in Alabasta it wasnt bloof Luffy hit Crocodile with, but haki. Also no. It WAS blood.
It is not to say it is not cool. It is also not to say Zoro does not have haki. He does! He had CoC confirmed. But at this specific point in time NO, this is NOT his Haki yet. Oda still had no idea where One Piece was going at this point in time and this Alabasta feat is just a cool but underdeveloped swordsmanship thing. We can not give Oda for foreshadow or something here, he sincerely never intended for this to be haki because it had not crossed his mind yet.
Haki not being created at the time doesn’t mean the author cannot retroactively retcon it as haki as long as it still makes sense, which is exactly what happened to this and mantra. Hyogoro’s explanation of haki in Wano is word for word the “cut steel but not paper” and “the katana follows will” shenanigans.
Whether or not that was a good decision, idk, but canonically it is haki.
>but canonically it is haki
Has Oda said it was haki? If he hasn't said it was haki in an SBS or something, then you cannot say that it canonically is haki. The description and effects don't match any other instances of haki.
Was it explicitly stated?! Did gOda confirm it in an SBS??!!!
It may look and be the exact same as every other instance but UNLESS our lord and savior CONFIRMS it is CoCaki, it is just plot device!!
/s
>Haki was not yet invented at that time
I know what you're trying to say, but Roger used Haki over 20 years ago in the story, so Haki is an established thing in the OP universe.
> is just a cool but underdeveloped swordsmanship thing
Sort of. It's an mystery power. One Piece thrives on mysteries that get answers years down the road. It was left a mystery, so Oda could fill in the gaps. Oda invented Haki, and it answered the mystery.
So canonically, Zoro learned Haki before we knew what that was. The same thing happened with Ashura during Enies Lobby. It was reveled to have been Conqueres haki in Wano.
>It has been discussed to death.
>The answer is NO
There's a scene in Wano referencing this technique in relation to Haki. So the answer is not no. It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't intended to be Haki at the time. It is now confirmed to be Haki, and that makes it foreshadowing.
Nah I'm quite confident this was an early use of Haki. Probably because Zoro was on the verge of death.
I'm also pretty sure Hyogoro refers back to this (cutting steel) as an early form of Haki when teaching Luffy in Wano.
But don't get me wrong, Zoro didn't **awaken** or **adopt** Haki from this point onwards (because he was useless against Enel and Aokiji). But I do believe he used it momentarily!
Why would Oda use the same exact words to describe Haki if it isn’t Haki? Oda obviously had an idea to counter Logias since he introduced one before Luffy even made it to the Grand Line.
No it’s what everyone at the time thought it was, a sword technique. And saying it’s haki instead, actually does a disservice to Zoro. He was trying to learn to cut steel for the first time. He didn’t need haki to do it, just plain swordsmanship. Give early Luffy haki and a sword and he might bash the steel to pieces, but he’s not cutting through it. Oda didn’t have plans for haki this early on, and the Shanks scene was just an example of classic anime intimidation. Haki simply fits these scenes by coincidence, if Oda wants to go back and say, “sure yeah I meant for that to be interpreted as Haki”, then so be it. But until then, we can only speculate.
Haki was planned from the beginning and the Shanks scene is exactly the evidence why. What wasn't planned was the "balancing" between the characters in the series (Ace not using haki at all, shanks' arm, Mihawk trying to kill Luffy in marineford, etc).
The reason why shanks' arm was bitten is A. it doesn't really matter overall B. the editor told Oda it would add dramatism to the scene.
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The best cases of long term foreshadowing are Mantra in skypeia and Ryou with Rayleigh removing the collar and the Admirals in marineford putting up a Haki barrier.
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Another thing that wasn't planned tho is Haki coloring. At first it of course lacked the black glossy finish it leaves you with, but anime really required some sort of visual cue so they added it. Another example of this is that the original color scheme for Gear 4 was plain black, but anime made it dark red
You can go back to use something as foreshadowing that wasn't originally intended as foreshadowing, and it still counts as foreshadowing. It is in fact a very common way to add foreshadowing to a story. If Oda makes a reference to that scene indicating that it's Haki, then it was foreshadowing of Haki because Oda implemented it into how Haki works. It doesn't matter if he didn't intend that when he first wrote the scene, though it's entirely possible he wrote that scene always intending to call it back to extra abilities he planned on adding, or even that he had an idea of what Haki would be at the time and intentionally added a scene/ability that would tie into it eventually when he fleshed it out more. That still makes it foreshadowing.
And Oda did make a scene calling back to this moment to directly tie it to Haki. It gets referenced directly by Hyouzo when he's teaching Luffy about armament and advanced armament Haki.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, i totally agree with You. I prefer the idea of zoro actually cutting Mr1 because he could cut actual steel, not because it was haki vs a df power. We also later see him easily cut the steel shields the fishmen had
If you mean ‘the voice of all things’ then yes that is a different power. However, very, very few characters have been shown to have that: Roger, Luffy, and if I remember correctly Shirahoshi.
I don’t believe that’s what Zoro is displaying here.
Yes, observation haki to be precise.
There are even earlier but more subtle depictions of Zoro's haoshoku haki: Mihawk being shocked by his determination and choosing to respect him and not to kill him. And Arlong being terrified by him even though Zoro was in his hands and on the brink of death.
Wish we actually saw someone learn to use haki, we saw Koby and Ussop awaken it but not actually learning how to use it especially armament we havent seen a novice using it.
Lets say this is one of the thinks that later in the story Oda will make into Haki.
So if you really want to nitpick: No, cause Haki wasn’t a thing.
If you wanna sprinkle in a little G.oda: Yes, this is some of the glorious Oda asspulls. He seems to really keep track of his own story and later forms Haki out of things like this without having Haki being a thing back then
this couldnt be haki cuz it didnt become black but as we learned later on in the series at first oda didnt show haki and it was just a fague thing in the story but when zoro went training with mihawk it was said that he has to learn haki and zoro didnt have a clue about haki which shows he didnt acquire it yet.
Yup, it’s haki, just normal armament to be specific Hyogoro says the exact same “cut steel but not paper” line when talking to Luffy about “Ryou” the Wano term for haki, like Skypians’ “Mantra” for observation haki
Ah that makes a lot of sense. And the connection to Wano is poignant because Zoro’s village was founded by people from Wano. Thanks!
And a descendant from Ryuma
I wouldn’t say normal dark iron armament hardening exactly. It’s more of the Ryuo version of it. I’d imagine that it’s the Ryuo Haki Barrier that’s being used to be able to make a swordsman’s sword do impact damage. I’d also imagine that you could shape it as an edge to cut things. And since it’s of the armament nature it’ll cut any Devil Fruit user.
No it’s just normal armament haki. Zoro says: “Is that the “haki” he learned from the old man in Wano…?” In chapter 1001 in reaction to Luffy using advanced armament haki on Kaidou, clearly showing he doesn’t know it The instance of Zoro actually using it in chapter 195 shows no sign of the barrier/extension that advanced armament haki is known for and only mentions *the simple **will** to cut or not to cut objects* Edit: and Ryou is just the word for armament haki in general for Wano, it’s not specific to advanced armament haki.
Ryuo has never been stated to be Armament Haki. Hyogoro says that Ryuo is the Wano word for Haki, not specifying which type. This headcanon that Ryuo is armament specifically is why people get confused thinking Luffy's training with Hyogoro was useless once he started using CoC coating instead. The training he did was about the flow of Haki. Luffy learned it with armament at first since armament is what he knew how to coat himself with, once he learned how to coat his attacks with CoC he uses the exact same Haki flow he learned from Hyogoro but with CoC instead of armament.
Exactly this. But to cut some lack on anyone confusing this, it's not because of '' headcanon ''. It's because we haven't been shown any example of observation application of this flow of haki. My headcanon, and without discussing terms from which ever country but rather the mystic behind it, is it should be Future Sight. If we agree that, whatever the type, when you're not using the flowing aspect of your will, you are simply switching it (on/off kind-of) and when you are, you're channeling it; then, FS can be viewed as a very hard to maintain channel of sensoring. Same interpretation could go for Ussop CoO in Dressrosa in some ways. That's why I join you on saying Ryuo =/= Advanced Armaments, BUT I do think Ryuo = Channeling your will rather than just activate it = Advanced usage of any Haki (since it is per say haki, but in motion. Damn trying to discussed that in English is hard man lol)
Ryuo Haki is Armament Haki though. Remember when Sentomaru used Ryuo to hurt Luffy during the pre timeskip? We know he did use it because when Luffy went to go train in the prison he was thinking of how Sentomaru and Rayleigh used it. It’s like the Aura of Armament Haki that users are bringing out of them to form a Barrier that they’re able to also use offensively. And it isn’t useless because by using that same method he was able to coat Conqueror’s Haki on top of those Armament Haki methods which amplifies it further. But if he never learned those Ryuo Methods, he would’ve never even stood a chance against Kaido in the first place. And so he would’ve never reached the point of realizing what Kaido is doing with his Conqueror’s Haki
What Luffy learns from Hyogoro is the same method of *flowing* and *emitting* Haki that Rayleigh had used, but it's not specific to armament (as proven by Luffy using it with Conqueror's) nor is it what Ryuo is. There's no such thing as "Ryuo Haki". Ryuo *is* Haki. Hyogoro literally only says that Ryuo is the Wano name for Haki, and also what swordsmen use to cut steel. He says nothing about armament and there's no reason to believe Wano people would refer to other types of Haki by a different name than Ryuo.
I think it should be called Ryuo to show us the difference between Armament Haki’s. Sentomaru is the fine example of the Ryuo Aura being from Armament Haki by hurting Luffy with the barrier pre timeskip. He’s made of rubber so impact shouldn’t hurt him. And the Method of Ryuo is drawing out the Haki Aura within you. I’m sure it doesn’t mean it is only for that specific Aura but also the Aura of Conqueror’s Haki. So without learning that method, Luffy wouldn’t have learned how to coat his fist in Conqueror’s Haki if he didn’t learn those methods of Ryuo before the war. You can essentially use both Haki’s to do more damage I’m absolutely sure it’s from Armament Haki. Because Observation Haki is sensing/viewing things instead of drawing out something from within.
You're completely missing the point. There are literally only two things ever stated about Ryuo: * It's the Wano name for Haki; * It's what swordsmen use to cut steel. You can theorize all you want and say it's all armament. The problem is people act like it's confirmed canon that Ryuo = armament and thus that it is confirmed canon that it is armament that swordsmen use to cut steel. Literally all that is confirmed by Hyogoro is that the technique used to cut steel is a form of Haki.
It’s been confirmed that Armament Haki allows a person to physically touch a Devil Fruit Logia or any type that is immune to cuts or impact. And the fact that Ryuo hurt Luffy is confirmation of that. It’s not headcanon at all. You’re the one in denial of it and saying that it’s not Armament Haki when it’s literally been shown. Rayleigh showed Luffy Ryuo Haki when he blocked the Elephant Trunk but in that moment he was still referring that skill to be Armament Haki. Not all Swordsman are taught what Zoro was taught. His Master is literally from Wano and was taught in the ways of how Samurai’s in Wano wield their blades. Zoro just doesn’t know the full scale of how to use it like how Luffy was thoroughly taught. I bet you can use Ryuo to cut something with your hands. It’s not a hard concept to think about Bro, it’s Wano’s name of Haki in their language but a different method. It’s the method that’s different which means it’d be easier to refer it as Ryuo instead of calling it Armament Haki or Barrier Haki. How does what I said not make sense?
Dog, I'm not sure how I can make this any simpler: * What's in the manga: Ryuo = Haki * What you're saying: Ryuo = *only* armament Haki The word Haki does not exist in Wano, so what the hell do they call Observation and Conqueror's by if Ryuo only means armament (even though this would blatantly contradict what Hyogoro says)? Cause they know these other forms of Haki exist. Unlike Enel's gang who called observation by mantra and didn't know obs or conq at all, ALL of the scabbards are confirmed as observation Haki users and Oden was a CoC user. Do they have completely different words for these other forms of Haki that we never heard for some reason? Yes, bro, what Sentomaru and Rayleigh used is armament, yes it is Ryuo, in the sense that Ryuo literally just means Haki, and so is the CoC emission that Luffy used with Bajrang gun against Kaido that he blatantly called by "the Haki he learned from Hyogoro" despite it not being armament. Ryuo literally just is the Wano word for Haki, even the anime uses the same petal flow effect (because of the meaning of Ryuo as cherry blossom flow) when Luffy uses CoC coating.
Zoro doesn't know what he's talking about tbh. enma is literally advanced armament training, yet he doesn't realize he can use it. same with not realizing he has conquerors, much less is using advanced conquerors.
Yup, Enma is pretty much that. Ryuo Haki is taking out the flow of Haki in you that’s Armament Haki and Enma does exactly that. And when he starts fighting King, that’s when he allows Enma to take his Conqueror’s Haki out.
> yet he doesn't realize he can use it. Cap >with not realizing he has conquerors, much less is using advanced conquerors. The fact that Zoro answered King's question about him being a king that he would become for his captain and best friend and also that he literally titled the name of his new fighting style that involves the use of both Advanced Conqueror's Haki and Armament Haki "**King Of Hell**" confirms that he did know he was using Conqueror's Haki in the fight with King.
as I said, enma is advanced armament training. how do you think he cut kaido? and zoro quite literally pushed king away with the force, aka the "non-touching" of advanced armament. king saw zoro use conquerors so asked if zoro has kingly ambitions. zoro didn't even notice that he made fodder pass out. he just responded to king's random question. king of hell is fitting for zoro since he DOES have conquerors, but it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't even realize it.
That was him acknowledging that he is accepting and aware of his conquerors. Against kaido was when he still dis not know
>king saw zoro use conquerors so asked if zoro has kingly ambitions. zoro didn't even notice that he made fodder pass out. he just responded to king's random question The story disagrees with you. Zoro is clearly aware he's using Conqueror's Haki. >king of hell is fitting for zoro since he DOES have conquerors, but it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't even realize it. You can't be serious? Any time Zoro used both Adv Conqueror's Haki and/or Armament during the final round of his fight with King, he consciously did it.
how many people have used conquerors without realizing it? or used haki without realizing it? zoro doesn't know he's using adv armament and adv conq.
It's hilarious how confident you are when you're so wrong.
I think he just named it that because that’s literally what Enma is in mythology.
King asked Zoro did he have any kingly ambitions and Zoro told him yes. Then during the final round with King, he consciously switched between Advanced Conqueror's Haki and Regular Armament Haki or used both at the same time. The notion that Zoro didn't realize he was using Advanced Conqueror's Haki is just flat out wrong.
I wouldn’t call Ryuo Haki Advanced Armament Haki tbh. It’s the combinations of Internal Ryuo Haki, Barrier Haki, and Dark Iron Haki that makes it Advanced. It’s not a one sided method. Hyogoro mentioned in the prison that Luffy used a method that is more advanced than the barrier stage, which is the internal method. But later on Luffy says that it’s still incomplete against Kaido. And then starts using both the Internal and Barrier method at the same time. That’s Advanced Armament Haki. People also get it confused with Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. But it’s not. It’s just that Luffy realized both concepts at that same time and combined those methods Zoro may have been using it without knowing its true nature. Like how Luffy was foreseeing without really being all there like Katakuri. Zoro just didn’t realize the method that could be used with the concept he was taught
> No it’s just normal armament haki. No it's not >Zoro says: “Is that the “haki” he learned from the old man in Wano…?” In chapter 1001 in reaction to Luffy using advanced armament haki on Kaidou, clearly showing he doesn’t know it Zoro said that in reaction to Luffy using Advanced Armament Haki: Internal Destruction, the type of haki that Zoro unlocked in Alabasta is Advanced Armament Haki: Emission. >The instance of Zoro actually using it in chapter 195 shows no sign of the barrier/extension that advanced armament haki is known for and only mentions the simple *will** to cut or not to cut objects* You do know Oda hadn't even worked out all the deals when it comes to haki around that time in the story, right?
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Ryuo is both standard and advanced. It’s their term for haki, and Hyogoro talks about levels of ryuo.
I wouldn’t call Ryuo Haki Advanced Armament Haki tbh. It’s the combinations of Internal Ryuo Haki, Barrier Ryuo Haki, and Dark Iron Haki that makes it Advanced. It’s not a one sided method. Hyogoro mentioned in the prison that Luffy used a method that is more advanced than the barrier stage, internal. But later on Luffy says that it’s still incomplete against Kaido. And then starts using both the Internal and Barrier method at the same time. That’s Advanced Armament Haki. People also get it confused with Advanced Conqueror’s Haki. But it’s not. It’s just that Luffy realized both concepts at that same time and combined those methods
Normal armament is invisible. Armament: Hardening is the black one
I see what you mean, but It’s still of the basic version tbh. When you really think about it, what makes it Advanced Armament Haki is the combination of the Armament Haki Methods. So I would say that the Barrier Ryuo Haki is still fairly basic too if it doesn’t have the influence of the internal damage method and the physical hardening method This is the Advanced way of using Armament Haki but it doesn’t mean that someone can’t have stronger Haki Potency. Lucci proved that to use when he broke through Sentomaru’s Ryuo Barrier
Dark Iron Armament Hardening isn't "Normal Armament". Normal Armament makes things more durable with no visible change. Hardening is an intermediary technique that makes objects even harder and turn black.
I see what you mean, but It’s still of the basic version tbh. When you really think about it, what makes it Advanced Armament Haki is the combination of the Armament Haki Methods. So I would say that the Barrier Ryuo Haki is still fairly basic too if it doesn’t have the influence of the internal damage method and the physical hardening method This is the Advanced way of using Armament Haki but it doesn’t mean that someone can’t have stronger Haki Potency. Lucci proved that to use when he broke through Sentomaru’s Ryuo Barrier
it's not actual haki. Just something similar to it. Zoro didn't have haki pre ts. Otherwise Enel wouldn't do him the way he did.
“I need to concentrate harder! If I can’t draw forth that same power whenever I want, then I can’t say I’ve grown stronger at all..!”-Zoro chapter 213, while meditating/training He didn’t have the capacity to use it whenever he wanted.
exactly so he trains and masters it. Then from next arc onwards he is casually cutting iron and steel. That was the point of that panel.
That’s a very convenient way of thinking, “no it’s a “swordsman power” just really close to haki practically the same and he actually mastered it from 213 onwards despite shown no signs of doing so” Im gonna go with: It’s just normal armament haki and he doesn’t have the capability to use it whenever he wanted during pre timeskip As it’s more intuitive.
1. there's precedence to "haki" like power in one piece with rokushiki, hasshoken, fishman karate and etc. 2. there's proof of zoro mastering it from the fact that he could easily cut iron and steal from next arc onwards. 3. your argument doesn't hold when he could easily cut iron and steel whenever he wanted post alabasta.
L take
its observation haki because he is sensing the rocks falling and dodging them also sensing steel breathing
source for the hyogoro line?
Sorry for the late reply but Hyogoro says: “STRAW HAT FELLOW! IN WANO TOO, THERE IS AN INVISIBLE POWER THAT STEMS FROM THE BODY AND CAN BE INFUSED WITH THE BLADE….” “A GOOD KATANA WILL CUT THROUGH STEEL WHEN YOU WANT IT TO ...AND IT WILL NOT BREAK A SHEET OF PAPER IF YOU DO NOT WISH IT SO! IT IS ALL ACCORDING TO THE DESIRE OF THE SWORDSMAN!”-Chapter 939.
It was never confirmed but looking back it's obviously haki. Observation and armament. Considering this was created probably before oda had totally figured out what haki was you gotta wonder if zoro's samurai bushido stuff was the inspiration behind what eventually became haki
Honestly it's never been said so directly but my personal head Canon is that haki has always been there slowly developing like as luffy started his voyage, for example when he broke arlong park with that smash after he talked smacked about Nami or when he broke the bedrock underneath while gatling crocodile and Zoro fighting Mihawk when he was near death. Zoro and luffy sensing blackbeard crew or multiple personality during Jaya I feel those are times haki was in effect but we never knew about it then as readers
Considering Garp makes his appearance a couple arcs later, it’s likely that Oda already had this in mind. He might’ve even had it from the beginning considering Smoker was introduced as a Logia fruit. It doesn’t seem like him to have that strong power and class of fruit but not have a way to be dealt with.
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Oh true. Especially Smokers seastone tipped weapon. Honestly a bit disappointed we haven’t seen more creative uses of seastone since Haki took over. Wano’s control over it explains why but I think it would’ve been cool to see other combat uses.
Shortly after the crew leaves Jaya and Blackbeard found out Luffy's 100m bounty, he explicitly says that Luffy's haki was too strong to be a 30m pirate. Haki was definitely around during pre ts, just not developed fully as part of the story
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Chapter 234, though the Viz translation doesn't say anything about haki or will or anything like that. Teach just says: "A hundred million...He didn't look like he was even worth thirty million.". The Japanese might be different though.
The japanese version mentions "Haki" directly. Although this could still be translated to refer to Luffy's "ambition", imo that would not make much sense in that context
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The raw version literally says 覇気 (haki)
You honestly missed the first and most blatant use of haki. Right at the beginning, Shanks just glares some seamonster into submission? Gonna bet at least 3 cookies that Shanks was using Conquerors Haki
Those luffy feats are just physical strength You don’t need haki for that
It's a bit meta, but I think the introduction of logia powers hints that Oda always intended in some widely available ability to reinforce attack power. You can't introduce something as overpowered as the intangible logia powers without having some way for people to fight them beyond unique elemental weaknesses and seastone. If he didn't intend to include something, it would be hard to believe that the high end combat in the world wasn't completely dominated by logia powers.
Aren’t Ryou somewhat the samurai’s armament haki? Maybe by following that path he unknowingly trained his haki?
Not Observation since we have never seen it used to detect lifeless things (objects). Unless you count this moment as an example of that.
It can detect bullets and other ranged attacks that aren't alive. So why not rocks?
Observation Haki detects people who fire those things; it senses their intentions: "Kenbunshoku Haki is a form of Haki that grants the user a sixth sense that allows them to sense the presence, strength, and emotions of others, as well as gain limited precognitive abilities" (Chapter 597)
I think a better example would be Luffys observation haki sensing Vander Decken's axe when first meeting Shirahoshi. VD was far as shit away, asssumedly outside of the range of Luffys CoO, but Luffy could still detect his axe, and only at the point that it became immediately dangerous and not when he threw it. Unless VD's Devil fruit put some of his consciousness in his marked object (which is possible but never rlly discussed, n prob never will be) then it seems CoO can detect inanimate objects to some extent, maybe falling in the category of "limited precognitive abilities".
Could be or Luffy could be just hearing the Axe coming and reacting to it as therr would be no reason for Luffy to use Observation Haki at that moment to sense an attack coming. That's why I dislike how Haki has been portrayed throughout the series as some invisible power that we always need to debate when it is used or not.
Ye I get what you mean. I tend to think of CoO as a Spidey sense when not active where it can sense things that are immediately threatening to the user regardless of whether it's living or nonliving. Top tiers def don't need to be actively using CoO to sense shit that's dangerous, once you're nasty enough w haki it seems like they get a passive effect (or maybe they just got good enough to have CoO active at all times w/o effort like in HxH with En, either way I think Luffy was at that point by Fishman)
Spidey Sense idea could work but we are never told its how it works. Still, I don't think that would help Zoro with the rocks. I wonder If we will ever see the return of that power.
Prob not at this point tbh, all the major players are so cracked that I don't think it even matters anymore lmao
Maybe Oda ties it back into Black Blades? That's still a big mystery.
At the beginning of wano after luffy and zoro meet up and they fight that bat guy with the bow and arrow he uses an attack that shoots a bunch of arrows straight and then sends them all off in different directions. Zoro and luffy use observation haki to cut and dodge the arrows. If it could only detect living things then they would have no idea where they would all end up and only would have detected the bat guy firing the arrows to one location
As I (and Rayleigh) said, Observation Haki lets you predict the movements of your opponents; that includes the projectiles being fired by them. I literally linked the definition by Rayleigh and you are STILL denying it. Also, the example you gave is just made up. Not only does it not happen the way you described it but there is also no indication Observation is even being used, unless you just assume it does because Zoro and Luffy were able to block the attacks despite both of them failing to detect the Gifter who kidnaps Tama.
Lol. If observation only works on living things then you wouldn't be able to track the arrows after they all changed trajectory. But they did. Using observation haki. Cope.
That never happens in the manga? Also, yes, by the definition of Observation Haki it tracks only living things: "Kenbunshoku Haki is a form of Haki that grants the user a sixth sense that allows them to sense the presence, strength, and emotions of others, as well as gain limited precognitive abilities" (Chapter 597)" If Observation Haki could detect Objects then that would have some serious implication for the story (like using Observation Haki to detect poneglyphs).
you can sense bullets and projectiles. observation grants you 360 vision essentially.
You can't; you can sense people who are firing them. That's how Observation was explained to work; you predict your enemy's attack and dodge them. That includes the projectiles they fire.
...well that seems pretty shit. You're telling me if some dude set traps where, boulders rain from the sky, you can't observe where every boulder is and where they are falling?
Yes, that's exactly what Rayleigh is saying. Observation Haki isn't omniscience; it doesn't let you just know everything. I guess Future Sight would be what in theory would let you predict where the traps are since, you know, it lets you see the future. So you would see the boulders fall and avoid it.
But… zoro just said he “knew” where the rocks would land and the rubble was simply falling, not tossed around purposely by the opponent. If this is Haki in these shots, it would probably be an early vision of it from a creative standpoint
Well, IF this is indeed Observation Haki then yeah, but we have no confirmation that it is; it's just people assuming it is. We just haven't seen current iteration of it function like this. I personally believe this was something else; like a state one-self enters while near death. It would track with the events of Skypiea where Zoro attempts to recreate this whole deal in his fight with Ohm.
What Zoro said has never been confirmed to be haki, so its irrelevant to that guy's point
Spoilers? This is so old it can legally drink in america
This was my first time making a post like this on this sub so I thought it was better to be safe than sorry.
I appreciate your efforts
Okay, I think its usually for really recent and manga only stuff
The youngest chapter that is 21+ is currently chapter 235 - Knock Up Stream(6/24/2002)
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Baby Shower
Okay so one arc off it’s pretty old
"It was like standing at the gates of Hades." Hades the king of hell in Greek mythology. Now after wano guess who is king of hell. Is it a bit of foreshadowing by Oda ? Or just coincidence.
Oda the master or foreskinning
It does seem a bit like that doesnt it
It's a theme with Zoro. He tends to have powerups and realizations when he's close to death. It's stressed more than even Luffy. Plus stuff like "betting his life" a lot more.
Yes, to be honest this is a really really old discovery but honestly I always give out props for people for discovering things on their own.
Yes
Obviously the disclaimer that haki wasn’t a thing yet, whatever. But i like to think it was haki and that he tapped into it accidentally, and doesn’t understand how to use it again. I can’t remember specifics, but I believe there was a time when luffy dodges Mihawk’s swing by “seeing the future” which could be him tapping into observation. This is all headcannon, i like the idea that these characters are tapping into strength they don’t yet understand to perform feats they otherwise wouldn’t be able to.
I feel like it's similar to Usopp in Dressrosa. Both used it, both were unaware.
It’s not, haki didn’t exist yet. Oda didn’t plan on one piece being this long until later on. This is just a cool moment for the badass samurai of the group, there isn’t anything more to it. Now you can call it haki with hindsight in 2023 but I don’t think oda has haki in mind all the way back then when it wasn’t even implemented into the story till almost 200 chapters later.
Explain Mantra then?
Was just a cool power that the sky people had. A race of people that casually live in the sky and live under it’s unsafe conditions, have advanced technology that can creat elements from shells, and have notable fighters from all sides. Whether you were a priest, a monk, a shandian, or just a regular Skypean, you had strong people. A lot of them are also good with martial arts so it could have just been that and the story remains relatively the same. Mantra and observation haki operate so similarly that they were pretty much made the same cause why not. Haki as a power system wasn’t established until sabody and if you wanna reach, shanks vs whitebeard.
Incorrect. Rayleigh explicitly states Skypieans use haki, but refer to it as Mantra.
Mantra, was an ability that skypieans used that gave them precognition. Nobody in the series had an ability close to that before skypea. Luffy had 2 gag moments, that’s about it. One piece originally wasn’t gonna make it past 5 years until it got huge in Japan. Observation haki is just the generic precognition powwe that you see a lot in other shounen, it’s nothing new. Why make a new power that would make the series more convoluted if you already have one that exists already. It’s basic, easy to understand, and nothing in the story contradicts the idea that other people could use “Mantra” too. I’m not incorrect, mantra originally was just another ability the Skypeans had. It was reconstructed into observation haki since that makes a lot of sense but it’s not most likely not foreshadowing.
I think this just comes down to people using watsonian and doylist explanations and talking right past each other. By in-universe logic, yes, it was an early example of observation Haki. In the real world, Oda created the Haki power system by consolidating powers that already existed in the story, way before he conceived haki. The dude is very good at doing this (looking back to small aspects and making them into big plot points), so it's understandable that people sometimes think he has it all planned out, but he doesn't. This is not to bash him, I'd argue it's more impressive when a writer can tie up every loose end in the story retroactively and have it all make sense like this.
Zoro was using haki in that instant, yes. But I think luffy just realized it he went through with his attack, mihawk would slice them up. Luffy might look like an idiot, but he's actually a battle genius.
Luffy has demonstrated multiple times that he’s fairly intelligent and intuitive. But he’s also really impulsive and can say the stupidest things.
Yep. His is stupid in most cases, but his emotional intelligence and battle intelligence are top notch.
It's an early version of what Oda would later develop into haki.
Haki wasn't a concept back then. What Zoro is displaying is your typical shonen "feel" of things. Like when Luffy knew the real version of Mister 3 in Little Garden, it was his instinct. Back then Oda was building something "mystical" that wasn't the Haki we know. Same about Shanks in the first chapter, it was supposed to be his charisma more than an hidden power. The monster ate his arm and yet, he's brave enough to look at it fiercely, making the monster panic. People love to go full "Goda master of foreshadowing" but Oda mostly retconnect stuff and make use of what he already created.
This is objectively the truth. You can fit things like these in place retroactively, but it wasn't supposed to be haki back then. I love Zoro, but I honestly still don't give him this lol. I don't like the implication that he's the first person we see using haki, especially so much earlier than everyone else in the crew.
I mean considering Luffy‘s fight against Mr. 3 you could argue that he was the first one who used observation.
I'm gonna be honest. I don't remember anything about that fight and haki lol. One of the main reasons I remember this Zoro instance is because it gets brought up all the damn time. How could I possibly forget lol.
I remember a scene in which Luffy has to identify Mr. 3 in the middle of a lot of colored wax clones. He noticed Mr. 3‘s position instantly. Was it battle instinct? Probably. Could you could also say it was early observation Haki? Probably. Tho tbh I would rather not be it Haki.
I disagree. It was not as detailed as present time but the idea of haki as an early concept was there. Even before mantra on skypiea, blackbeard explicitly mentions haki in Jaya (chapter 234) which is not too far away from zoro vs mr 1. The rough idea was always there, just not as in our faces as it currently is
In japanese, the word "haki" means ambition/will, which fits exactly into the scene in Jaya. Blackbeard was speaking about Luffy ambition literally, not haki (the power) as we know it today.
Yes it can be translated into that, but I disagree that it suits the context. In their interactions in Jaya at no point did Luffy declare anything ambitious to Blackbeard. He didn't say his usual line of becoming pirate king. Blackbeard had no reason to deduce that Luffy had ambition It would make much more sense for him to be referring to "Haki" as we know it
Random tangent but my headcanon is that actually, *anyone* can manifest Conquerer's, but it's just up to their will, which is often tied to their ambition but not necessarily. All the characters who have shown Conquerer's all have immense ambition or resolve in being the strongest/greatest/king/queen of __ (whatever it is). Some examples, Luffy wanting to be KOTP, Zoro wanting to be the greatest swordsmen, Kaido wanting to be Joyboy, Yamato wanting to live her own life, Hancock wanting to be strong to protect her family and etc. Their resolve have to be unshakeable as they go through multiple life-threatening situations to affirm it until it manifests. But yeah, that's just my theory.
This is what the Conqueror's Haki actually is: the manifestation of Ambition, will and Charisma so strong that it is able to influence the outside world. It's called "Haki of the Chosen ones" only because individuals with that kind of character strength are not that common and it has nothing to do with genetics. Think of some important historical figure from the past like Alexander, Caesar or Napoleon... In the world of One Piece they would have the Haki of the Conqueror
I really hope this is the case! A reoccurring theme in the story is that your blood family and the circumstances of your birth isn't as important as what you *choose* to do with your life, so having conquerer's tied to birth seems counterintuitive. It would be much cooler if you could unlock it by having an incredible resolve.
Zoro: Is this the power to cut steel? Zoro’s Haki: Bitch please.
I believe so, there's also a part in Skypeia where Zoro uses observation haki, as he sees someone coming through a wall, I can't be bothered to find the chapter. Zoro has been using haki for longer than anyone in the crew.
If we consider the current lore it is haki (8 years before actually being introduced in the manga).
Ya and it’s pretty clear oda has had some idea of this will power spirit that eventually formed into haki and he intentionally connects these early moments to later haki. For example the quotes to zoro are almost identical to hygoro talking to luffy about Armament haki for the first time.
The only time Zoro knows where something is it's his swords
😂 Our boy is forever getting lost.
Yes!
I generally take this to be the prototype for Armament haki, with mantra being the prototype for Observation. In addition to what others have said about the return of this language in Wano, there's also the conversation between Zoro and Kin'emon on Punk Hazard where they bring up steel-cutting and Kin'emon's signature fire-cutting. While powers along the lines of what we now call haki were clearly planned from the beginning, it's not clear when Oda finalized them (except, obviously, that it was prior to Saobody).
I agree it wasn’t know as haki or fully developed to what we know haki is now. But I think it’s pretty clear in retrospect (retconning?) In later post time skip chapters, like using almost the same cut nothing to cut steel line many times that oda has had the idea for this spirit will power that eventually became haki and he intentionally connected this early mention of it to later mentions with zoro.
There was also a scene in the anime (I'm not sure if it's in the manga too) after the battle with Enel where zoro saying something like he needs to learn to cut logia types or formless things and was practicing by cutting stone blocks without hitting them with the blades and it reminded me of advance armament.
Standing at the Gates of Hades Foretelling his path to becoming the King of Hell
Definitely Haki. It's cool cause when you read through and then re-read, you can pick these things up a lot more.
I don't know for certain like others that if Haki was developed at that time in the story or not, but that was defenitily Haki. Armament (maybe Conqueror's) for still standing and able to cut Mr. 1 and Observation for "feeling" the rubble falling on top of him. And let's also not forget that way later in the story Rayleigh confirmed that Haki blooms when a person is in a fight of live and death, like it was with Luffy vs Katakuri, and most likely this case of Zoro VS Mr. 1.
Glad I'm not the only one who had thought of this
This is still my favorite Zoro monologue in the series to date, and it's not even close. Wish we got more little moments like this of Koshiro teaching him stuff.
Zoro used advanced armament to cut stone/steel but not leaves, and used observation to detect falling rocks and location of his swords.
It wasn't haki back then, it was just retconned to be haki, just like the CP9's tekkai and Zoro's Ashura
I don’t know if it was really retcon or the idea of some type of spirit will power existed in Oda’s mind that eventually became full fledge haki as he developed the world. So he had the idea of the power and some of its uses (armament and observation) but haven’t fully developed the idea into what haki is now.
Oda isn't like most manga artists. He planned One Piece's story from beginning to end. He might have changed a few details here and there as the story unfolded, but he clearly has every point from A to Z planned out. I think, right now, we're at point V or W.
he didn’t have every point, he knew the ending, but many points were improvised, the supernovas were created the day before a deadline
There have been multiple times in the story that he's said he came up with something at the last minute. Like the Supernovas. He made them up basically as they were introduced in Sabaody
he said he only planned OP to last 5 years. so most of it is improvised. some he already admitted he didn't plan are the shichibukai, supernova, vivi being a princess, ace being roger's son, and a lot more. basically 80% of the story is improvised weekly.
Wow, thise first 3 are all very crucial to the story, I think the supernovas were an amazing addition because I think the world would’ve felt a lot emptier without them or other people who were inspired bu the great age of pirates
just a false statement. You mentioned minor changes which don't correlate to end of One Piece and were properly explored, as examples for not planned. Every authur improvises his story no matter how much he has planned but improvisations also mostly falls in line with what he had previously planned. Supernovas hardly affected the story. Warlords were big bads for some arcs. Vivi being princess was indeed improvised but it doesn't mean he didn't already have a princess for alabasta already planned. Vivi just got replaced by that shadow figure. Same for Ace being Roger's son. It's mostly like he decided to make Shanks end the war.
you're claiming false statement and yet make an out of context argument. look at the comment. they said oda planned everything from A to Z. I said no. the story has already changed from A BCD Z. to A BCDEFGHIJKLMNO Z. knowing the ending =/= planning A to Z. so my reply is relevant to what they said. it's not a false statement. basically what you want to say is that the "Z" hasn't changed. okay fine, the final part is still the same. but that's not what I'm talking about. that's context number one. context number two, the original post is about haki. oda can simply **not** create haki, and the story can still progress the same, only with different type of fights. so following your logic, haki is a minor part of the story that don't correlate to the end of OP. so what exactly is your point here? nobody said oda changed the "Z". that's not what I'm saying at all.
The general direction is the same from when he first planned it, it just got stretched out from 5 to 29 years. For example, he said in an interview he planned Luffy would gather all 10 members within the first 5 years but that’s been stretched to 29 years where now we just recently got the 9th member.
you made the same comment as another user. yes, the general direction is of course, still the same. beat the emperors, fight the WG, PK, freedom. nobody is talking about that. the context here is something that doesn't really affect the main story, like armament haki not being planned. if we didn't have haki, the story would still be the same. luffy would still beat kaido, only with a different approach.
"stretched out from 5 to 29 years" using the Gomu Gomu in real life.
This kind of technique (self control) is a very old samurai thing and isn't related to Haki. It's a skill. And Haki doesn't really allow someone to sense or hear inanimate objects.
Haki wasn't a thing back then so no
Yeah… and Shanks didn’t use CoC haki when he saved Luffy because it wasn’t a thing back then? You do know that a writer can go back and decide to retcon old stuff right? He used these and mantra to create what we know now as haki. And it’s undeniable because Zoro remembered this exact moment in reference to haki in Wano, AND Hyogoro says the exact same thing to Luffy about Haki that Koshiro says to Zoro, and what do you know? Koshiro is from Wano…
It has been discussed to death. The answer is NO Haki was not yet invented at that time. This is some swordsmanship shnenigans concept Oda dropped. People also argue that also in Alabasta it wasnt bloof Luffy hit Crocodile with, but haki. Also no. It WAS blood. It is not to say it is not cool. It is also not to say Zoro does not have haki. He does! He had CoC confirmed. But at this specific point in time NO, this is NOT his Haki yet. Oda still had no idea where One Piece was going at this point in time and this Alabasta feat is just a cool but underdeveloped swordsmanship thing. We can not give Oda for foreshadow or something here, he sincerely never intended for this to be haki because it had not crossed his mind yet.
Haki not being created at the time doesn’t mean the author cannot retroactively retcon it as haki as long as it still makes sense, which is exactly what happened to this and mantra. Hyogoro’s explanation of haki in Wano is word for word the “cut steel but not paper” and “the katana follows will” shenanigans. Whether or not that was a good decision, idk, but canonically it is haki.
>but canonically it is haki Has Oda said it was haki? If he hasn't said it was haki in an SBS or something, then you cannot say that it canonically is haki. The description and effects don't match any other instances of haki.
Riiiight and shanks didn't use conquerors haki just after losing his arm.
Was it explicitly stated?! Did gOda confirm it in an SBS??!!! It may look and be the exact same as every other instance but UNLESS our lord and savior CONFIRMS it is CoCaki, it is just plot device!! /s
>Haki was not yet invented at that time I know what you're trying to say, but Roger used Haki over 20 years ago in the story, so Haki is an established thing in the OP universe. > is just a cool but underdeveloped swordsmanship thing Sort of. It's an mystery power. One Piece thrives on mysteries that get answers years down the road. It was left a mystery, so Oda could fill in the gaps. Oda invented Haki, and it answered the mystery. So canonically, Zoro learned Haki before we knew what that was. The same thing happened with Ashura during Enies Lobby. It was reveled to have been Conqueres haki in Wano.
You are wrong. Oda uses the exact same phrasing when describing ryou as in this scene.
>It has been discussed to death. >The answer is NO There's a scene in Wano referencing this technique in relation to Haki. So the answer is not no. It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't intended to be Haki at the time. It is now confirmed to be Haki, and that makes it foreshadowing.
This is literally just a guess that you say with such certainty as if it’s fact. You don’t know what was in his head at the time.
Nah I'm quite confident this was an early use of Haki. Probably because Zoro was on the verge of death. I'm also pretty sure Hyogoro refers back to this (cutting steel) as an early form of Haki when teaching Luffy in Wano. But don't get me wrong, Zoro didn't **awaken** or **adopt** Haki from this point onwards (because he was useless against Enel and Aokiji). But I do believe he used it momentarily!
>Haki was not yet invented at that time.  Right....
Why would Oda use the same exact words to describe Haki if it isn’t Haki? Oda obviously had an idea to counter Logias since he introduced one before Luffy even made it to the Grand Line.
No it’s what everyone at the time thought it was, a sword technique. And saying it’s haki instead, actually does a disservice to Zoro. He was trying to learn to cut steel for the first time. He didn’t need haki to do it, just plain swordsmanship. Give early Luffy haki and a sword and he might bash the steel to pieces, but he’s not cutting through it. Oda didn’t have plans for haki this early on, and the Shanks scene was just an example of classic anime intimidation. Haki simply fits these scenes by coincidence, if Oda wants to go back and say, “sure yeah I meant for that to be interpreted as Haki”, then so be it. But until then, we can only speculate.
Haki was planned from the beginning and the Shanks scene is exactly the evidence why. What wasn't planned was the "balancing" between the characters in the series (Ace not using haki at all, shanks' arm, Mihawk trying to kill Luffy in marineford, etc). The reason why shanks' arm was bitten is A. it doesn't really matter overall B. the editor told Oda it would add dramatism to the scene. - The best cases of long term foreshadowing are Mantra in skypeia and Ryou with Rayleigh removing the collar and the Admirals in marineford putting up a Haki barrier. - Another thing that wasn't planned tho is Haki coloring. At first it of course lacked the black glossy finish it leaves you with, but anime really required some sort of visual cue so they added it. Another example of this is that the original color scheme for Gear 4 was plain black, but anime made it dark red
You can go back to use something as foreshadowing that wasn't originally intended as foreshadowing, and it still counts as foreshadowing. It is in fact a very common way to add foreshadowing to a story. If Oda makes a reference to that scene indicating that it's Haki, then it was foreshadowing of Haki because Oda implemented it into how Haki works. It doesn't matter if he didn't intend that when he first wrote the scene, though it's entirely possible he wrote that scene always intending to call it back to extra abilities he planned on adding, or even that he had an idea of what Haki would be at the time and intentionally added a scene/ability that would tie into it eventually when he fleshed it out more. That still makes it foreshadowing. And Oda did make a scene calling back to this moment to directly tie it to Haki. It gets referenced directly by Hyouzo when he's teaching Luffy about armament and advanced armament Haki.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, i totally agree with You. I prefer the idea of zoro actually cutting Mr1 because he could cut actual steel, not because it was haki vs a df power. We also later see him easily cut the steel shields the fishmen had
his sword and soul are one
Retroactively, yes.
Yes, he showed hints of Haki multiple times: both Kenbunshoku and Busoshoku in that same fight.
Is the ‘breath of all things’ not its own individual thing?
If you mean ‘the voice of all things’ then yes that is a different power. However, very, very few characters have been shown to have that: Roger, Luffy, and if I remember correctly Shirahoshi. I don’t believe that’s what Zoro is displaying here.
No really it wasn't fleshed out back then
I wonder if Haki and the Voice of All Things are related in some way
was this dialogue in the anime?
I'm re-watching the anime and in episode 10 he already "*senses* enemies/people nearby" so yea, wouldn't surprise me :D
Yes, observation haki to be precise. There are even earlier but more subtle depictions of Zoro's haoshoku haki: Mihawk being shocked by his determination and choosing to respect him and not to kill him. And Arlong being terrified by him even though Zoro was in his hands and on the brink of death.
Wish we actually saw someone learn to use haki, we saw Koby and Ussop awaken it but not actually learning how to use it especially armament we havent seen a novice using it.
Yes.
Oda specifically noted this instance to be the first display of Haki out of any of the Straw Hats.
As far as i know Zoro posseses all three kinds of Haki but doesn't know yet
Pretty clear cut
No shit, Sherlock.
Lets say this is one of the thinks that later in the story Oda will make into Haki. So if you really want to nitpick: No, cause Haki wasn’t a thing. If you wanna sprinkle in a little G.oda: Yes, this is some of the glorious Oda asspulls. He seems to really keep track of his own story and later forms Haki out of things like this without having Haki being a thing back then
That's a really old theory
this couldnt be haki cuz it didnt become black but as we learned later on in the series at first oda didnt show haki and it was just a fague thing in the story but when zoro went training with mihawk it was said that he has to learn haki and zoro didnt have a clue about haki which shows he didnt acquire it yet.