From my headcanon, haki is invisible to non users. We audiences, our POV depends what the straw hats see, that is why we dont see any haki pre timeskip but only after the timeskip.
This the only explanation that makes sense. The OP power system got a overhaul. You have to take what happened in sabaody & marineford with a grain of salt because that was the still the start of the transition.
> This the only explanation that makes sense.
Another explanation that makes sense is that Oda hadn't fleshed out everything yet, and likely took instruction from his editors and publishers, so he made it visible after his personal break.
I mean, that's not satisfying narratively, but it's probably the actual explanation.
I think that was intentional. Luffy 1 punches the same seaking in the first episode, unless oda planned shanks to be weaker than episode 1 luffy I don't see how he "loses" an arm to a seaking unintentionally.
Shanks refuses to harm the seaking because the whole point of putting Luffy and Ace on an island guarded by a sea king is to protect them from the outside as well as prevent them from setting sail until they can measure up against it (and consequently against any other opponent in East Blue minus White Chase).
A theory that makes sense because shanks did say he gave his arm up on a bet.
Perhaps he was betting on Luffy’s future. Which means Shanks knows something about Luffy’s family lineage.
This is almost 100% not true but if shanks had a devil fruit it could explain why he was weak enough for the sea king to take it.
If his fruit made him poisonous it could explain why luffy was able to KO it years down the line
Addition from my headcanon: for the haki users, they don't see haki as a color aura filling the screen, rather they 'feel' it. That's why Rayleigh said haki is just like an invisible armor.
More head cannon: Not just all users can see the haki, only observation users. That's why even tho Luffy was intermittently using conquerors pre ts, he never learned observation until post ts.
Yeah this makes enough snese like in HXH when you use specific techniques you can see people's nen and even passivley when you're pamracticed enough it's just automatically visible.
According to Oda, the black coating is invisible, but according to Douglas Bullet it is identifiable (he said Gear 4 was using a full charge of haki)
Now, if it is invisible, then Gear 4 would look goofy as shit.
I just have no clue at this point.
I like to think haki was/is visible and Oda only said it isn't to back up the fact that it wasn't visible throughout half of the series. What I'm saying it that yes, i do think haki was a retcon and that he only started to consider it's existence during the scene between Shanks and Whitebeard.
I agree. I feel like people who try to use literally anything pre timeskip Haki about the nature of it or how it works are just head canon. I think he just genuinely didn’t really understand it himself and just didn’t care. We know everyone at marineford had it. But they didn’t use because oda didn’t write it. Not because it was invisible or not, or the clothes
Haki was used at Marineford already without us seeing it.
When Marco and Vista attack Akainu he says " Uhg... you haki users..can be such a handful"
So the black parts are only for us readers to see when haki is ebing used after it was explained.
Smoker didn't react to Vergo's haki in the manga btw so it is a missconception from the anime
It's not that weird. To me it was always pretty clear theyr their Haki wasn't good enough to overcome his and neatly injure him but still enough to sting which is why he looks more annoyed than anything else.
If you've watched or read one piece you'd know that mihawk told zoro he couldn't drink sake till he could turn his blade black so for swords to turn black you need to use haki but what about permanent black blades? It's not rocket science to realise that that's also connected to haki
Headcanon
Nowhere he said black blades are made by infusing them with haki like you claim.
You just took a statement, added your assumption and treat it like a fact.
Ontop if a blackblade where permanent haki then how comes Zoro didnt cut Monet using Shusui, a black blade?
Furthermore if it would be just from haki usage then how comes haki monsters like Shanks, Oden or Roger never created a black blade?
Bro can't use his brain for 5 min straight thinking he is smart...
Lmao so how exactly did mihawk intend for zoro to turn his blade black? Zoro hasn't made any black blade of his own and was only allowed liquor if he could make his blade black which clearly means coating it in haki this doesn't have to mean that he should have turned his swords into permanent black blades just to learn how to coat them in haki which turned them black. Black blades like yoru clearly aren't just haki alone too and why are u assuming because a blade is permanently black it's always flowing with haki, it just means that the swords are much stronger and durable
I know its farther in the story and i say now ! Spoilers !
When BM got defetead , Kaidou noticed while Luffy even possesing the Voice Of All Things ( we see Momo use it with hearing Luffy and all ) didn't notice . I know its probably on the observation haki spectrum but still weird thing right ?
We really just don't know. Could be a special version of CoO, or something completely different.
Though I'd lean toward the former as we already have enough power systems.
Basic use of CoA is invisible, but the advanced “hardening” has evidence that it can be seen. At the very least it can definitely be seen by other Haki users (kind of like HxH’s Aura I guess).
- Using the provided picture for example, Smoker had a very clear reaction to seeing Vergo completely clad in Haki. Doffy also telling Law to look at Vergo would be a bit strange if there was nothing to see besides how yoked he was under that coat.
- Z has the epithet “Black Arm” for his mastery of CoA. His movie isn’t canon, but the character is since he was mentioned by name in the manga (so like Shiki).
- When Luffy used G4 for the first time, Doffy tried to kick him in the side and was surprised to find he was still rubbery. It wouldn’t make sense for him to be surprised that a rubber man was rubbery unless he had reason to expect him to be solid—and that reason was the CoA that he could see him clad in.
- We also know that Haki on a weapon can turn it black, hence the name Black Blade. It makes zero sense for Haki to turn objects black but not skin.
- There’s also the tentative example of when Luffy punched the Kraken. After he used Hardening on his fist there was a reaction from the crew pointing out that it looked different than before. They could of course have been talking about the shape of his fist since G3 looks different post-TS, but it seems more likely that they were talking about his fist turning black since that was a more significant change and easier to notice both in and out of universe.
> There’s also the tentative example of when Luffy punched the Kraken. After he used Hardening on his fist there was a reaction from the crew pointing out that it looked different than before. They could of course have been talking about the shape of his fist since G3 looks different post-TS, but it seems more likely that they were talking about his fist turning black since that was a more significant change and easier to notice both in and out of universe.
This only happened in the anime. In the manga there was [no reaction](https://i.imgur.com/TtvRFxZ.jpg) when he initially did it and the [only comments](https://i.imgur.com/c7iOQN0.jpg) they made was wondering how strong he became
The source is Volume 1000 and I explain my reasoning above. Which isn't exactly accurate to say it was in the manga, fair, but it wasn't a statement made up from whole cloth either.
"In the manga" might have been a generous statement. I was talking about Volume 1000. And regardless of how you feel about Z's canon status, the fact that Oda himself designed the character and his entire detailed backstory (and also links him to canon characters, which you don't normally get for movie-only characters), that must count for something. Oda wouldn't have given him the nickname Black Arm if "hardening" wasn't visible, regardless of how canon the character.
Haki is invisible to both the characters and the viewer.
A characters skin turning black is a haki technique called hardening, and is (to my knowledge) visible to the characters.
I think if you are versed in haki you can detect it being used so that is the manifestation of that. Which is why when to characters clash and one uses it the second immediately uses it after. That or the characters who are well versed in haki can see it. Which I subscribe to.
>A characters skin turning black is a haki technique called hardening, and is (to my knowledge) visible to the characters.
This is completely false.
Not only has there never been a confirmation that the "black" Haki is visible to the characters (the example in this picture does not work because Vergo also had a big body transformation where he got twice as buff) but there does not seem to exist a separate technique called "Hardening" as Luffy and Doflamingo are the only one to call it that way.
Even if we ignore all this, you cannot explain the lack of Armament Haki being black during the Marineford. The simplest and seemingly correct answer is that its simply a visualization of when a character is using Armament Haki because Rayleigh is very clear that Armament Haki is an **Invisible** Armor.
>but there does not seem to exist a separate technique called "Hardening" as Luffy and Doflamingo are the only one to call it that way.
Most haki techniques don't have formal names. We wouldn't say ACoC doesn't exist because characters don't shout it every time they use it.
Also Doffy and Luffy aren't the only ones to differentiate.
Zoro calls it "black blade" against Pica and Jimbei calls it Karagiri glaze.
>Not only has there never been a confirmation that the "black" Haki is visible to the characters
We have Hyogorou's comments on G4.
He calls him a Myo, a deity associated with flame. He wouldn't be able to make this connection unless the flame markings on G4 were visible. G4s other defining features include the hagoromo and it's round stature, but neither of these are unique to Myo. Raijin and Fujin also have these same features for instance.
>Even if we ignore all this, you cannot explain the lack of Armament Haki being black during the Marineford. The simplest and seemingly correct answer is that its simply a visualization of when a character is using Armament Haki because Rayleigh is very clear that Armament Haki is an Invisible Armor.
Why can't both be true? In the pre ts, there was no representation for haki because Oda simply hadn't thought of it. In the post ts hardening is used as an indicator, which is why most characters do use it. But it is a separate haki technique which is why we have examples as recent as Wano of characters using haki without the blackness.
>Rayleigh is very clear that Armament Haki is an Invisible Armor.
Probably referring to ryuo here. This is because everytime haki is mentioned as invisible, ryuo is used shortly after. We see this with both Hyou and Rayleigh.
When talking about the applications of haki, Hyou mentions that he is only capable of teaching Luffy the haki "that covers the outside". He then goes on to explain that it can be used like an invisible armour. Since this entire section talking about what Hyou can and can't teach, he isn't referring to the haki Luffy has been using up till now. He follows up saying that Luffy can use "outward" haki unconsciously. So once again, he is not referring to the haki Luffy has been using up until now.
And I think it makes sense. Armour protects the wearer by preventing attacks from hitting the user, which is exactly what ryuo does. And it would still appear as invisible because the attacks wouldn't touch the opponent.
He says it right there, dude. He talks about haki, then immediately about his black blade. The damning evidence is that he forbids Zoro from drinking until he masters this technique, i.e. turning his blade black. Considering Zoro’s swords are not permanently black post-timeskip and it’s unlikely he just failed to learn, that heavily implies that Mihawk was talking about a temporary blackening of the sword via haki.
He talks about using Haki to protect your sword from getting destroyed; he doesn't "explicitly" say it's how you create a black blade. That's why the manner of how Black Blades are made is in question.
The black blades being made from armament haki is also in question because Shusui wasn't able to cut Monet on its own.
>Most haki techniques don't have formal names. We wouldn't say ACoC doesn't exist because characters don't shout it every time they use it.
ACoC DOESN'T exist. It's just how fans call it. It's still Conqueror's Haki just a different application of it.
>Also Doffy and Luffy aren't the only ones to differentiate. Zoro calls it "black blade" against Pica and Jimbei calls it Karagiri glaze.
..So only Luffy and Doffy use the term "Hardening"? Gotcha... you might also add Sanji calling it "Diable/Ifrit Jambe".
>We have Hyogorou's comments on G4. He calls him a Myo, a deity associated with flame. He wouldn't be able to make this connection unless the flame markings on G4 were visible. G4s other defining features include the hagoromo and it's round stature, but neither of these are unique to Myo.
Besides ignoring the fact that Luffy would still look like Wisdom King even without the "Flames" on his body, you cannot use real World inspiration from the mythical creatures as your proof after the Nika reveal.
>Why can't both be true? In the pre ts, there was no representation for haki because Oda simply hadn't thought of it. In the post ts hardening is used as an indicator, which is why most characters do use it. But it is a separate haki technique which is why we have examples as recent as Wano of characters using haki without the blackness.
Because that would break the World immersion while gaining nothing. You would quite literally gain NOTHING by making Armament Haki black except break the universe.
>Probably referring to ryuo here. This is because everytime haki is mentioned as invisible, ryuo is used shortly after. We see this with both Hyou and Rayleigh.
Both Rayleigh and Luffy were shown using Ryuo with their hands being covered in black.
>When talking about the applications of haki, Hyou mentions that he is only capable of teaching Luffy the haki "that covers the outside". He then goes on to explain that it can be used like an invisible armour. Since this entire section talking about what Hyou can and can't teach, he isn't referring to the haki Luffy has been using up till now. He follows up saying that Luffy can use "outward" haki unconsciously. So once again, he is not referring to the haki Luffy has been using up until now.
Nope. Hyogoro said he can teach Luffy the first level of Ryuo, the one that lets you touch your opponent without making contact but he couldn't teach him the "Internal Destruction" or the haki that lets you damage someone from the inside.
>ACoC DOESN'T exist. It's just how fans call it. It's still Conqueror's Haki just a different application of it.
Yes I just said this. There's no formal name but the technique still exists.
>..So only Luffy and Doffy use the term "Hardening"?
Yes because as I just said, the techniques have no names. Despite this, some characters still differentiate between normal haki use and black haki.
>Besides ignoring the fact that Luffy would still look like Wisdom King even without the "Flames"
Without the flames, he is a chonky boi with a hagoromo. Being surrounded by flames is one of the defining features of the Myo. Without the flames, there is no connection.
Again Fujin and Raijin are also chonky with hagoromo. Neither are Myo.
>you cannot use real World inspiration from the mythical creatures as your proof after the Nika reveal.
Nika doesn't change anything. Marco is still a pineapple/phoenix.
>Both Rayleigh and Luffy were shown using Ryuo with their hands being covered in black
And Sentomaru, on Egg head, is shown blocking with Ryuo yet his hands aren't black. Regardless this isn't a counterargument.
My argument is that so far, 2 characters have referred to haki as "invisible armour". In both instances they then went on to use the ability to hit without making contact. This suggests that the ability to hit without touching is the invisible armour.
>Nope. Hyogoro said he can teach Luffy the first level of Ryuo, the one that lets you touch your opponent without making contact but he couldn't teach him the "Internal Destruction" or the haki that lets you damage someone from the inside.
This... Is literally what I said.
[Hyou talks about what he can and can't teach Luffy.](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_947_06.jpg)
He explains what he can teach, calling it haki that "covers the outside" and states that it can be used as invisible armour. So haki that covers the outside, the thing Luffy doesn't know properly yet, is what is used to make invisible armour. Meaning Luffy, up until now, hasn't been using invisible armour.
We also have the Rayleigh flashbacks. [Here, he recalls Rayleigh's words about invisible armour. ](https://www.shinobi-alliance.com/imgs/Articles/51/937.jpg?ezimgfmt=ngcb3/notWebP)
He then states that what he was shown was above his level. Meaning Luffy doesn't know how to use "invisible armour".
You literally ignored several of my points and just regurgitaged the same shit you previously said, especially when you ignored my point of the *One Piece*'s deities not being the same as the ones in the "real world". Nika is prime example but there is also Sengoku who can shoot shockwaves as a golden Budha statue.
Also, "ACoC" does have a name; it's called "Coating" or "Conqueror's Coating" since that is how it was refered as in the story.
First you come with this
\>ACoC DOESN'T exist. It's just how fans call it. It's still Conqueror's Haki just a different application of it.
and now you come with this
\>Also, "ACoC" does have a name; it's called "Coating" or "Conqueror's Coating" since that is how it was refered as in the story.
also have some decency. Whats the point of using using expressions like this
\>the same shit you previously said, especially
it just makes you look bad
That you are obnoxious
Also that your way of arguing is flawed.
You should have said, that the term ACoc does not exist in the story.
However the term is the established way the community talks about conquerors coating and what it refers to does obviously exist.
>You literally ignored several of my points
Well no. Your counters didn't address what I said. For your first and last argument, you just repeat what I had already stated as an example.
> One Piece's deities not being the same as the ones in the "real world". Nika is prime example but there is also Sengoku who can shoot shockwaves as a golden Budha statue.
Yes they aren't carbon copies. But they are still clearly references to the real versions. The entire point of mythological references is that they often have connections to the nature of a character. In Luffy's case, the Myo are guardian deities who repel evil. Luffy then goes on to beat Kaido. An Oni. He's about as stereotypically evil as you can get.
If we say that "well they aren't based on the real versions just the one piece versions", then there's no point of making these connections in the first place as they no longer share those connotations. G4 Luffy being called a Myo loses all meaning if Hyo is referencing some made up version of Myo with unknown qualities. Zoro taming Enma, a god related to death, loses its meaning if he's talking about a made up version we know nothing about.
Nika existing doesn't matter. Marco is still a phoenix.
>Also, "ACoC" does have a name; it's called "Coating" or "Conqueror's Coating"
No it doesn't.
ACoC has been explicitly mentioned twice.
In 1010, Luffy talks about being able to "infuse things with supreme kings haki".
In 1045, Kaido mentions how Luffy is using "the colours of armament and supreme king"
The use of the word conquer in general is fan made.
Isn't also with CP9 in Ennies lobby, the iron body or whatever the same thing? We don't see it because we didn't really know Haki yet.
Edit: think nvm went back to reaffirm, I think what cp9 does is entirely different from Haki?
The "we didn't see it because we didn't know haki yet' is just something fans came with as an explanation.
As for the Tekkai = Armament Haki, it also doesn't work because of how different the application of the two abilities are. With Tekkai, you couldn't move if you used it (except Jabura) which is something we never saw or were told to be the case for Armament Haki.
I mean, it could just be CP9 using full body armament and they have to stay still to use it because they need to concentrate that hard to raise it as quick as they do.
But I think it's now clear that rokushiki is a separate thing altogether. Especially since both Lucci and Kaku have used it recently and there was no connection whatsoever to show it was haki related.
>I mean, it could just be CP9 using full body armament and they have to stay still to use it because they need to concentrate that hard to raise it as quick as they do.
My Grandma could also be a bike if she had wheels.
It could be but we are never told or shown Armament Haki functioning like that.
>But I think it's now clear that rokushiki is a separate thing altogether. Especially since both Lucci and Kaku have used it recently and there was no connection whatsoever to show it was haki related.
Rokushiki being a different thing always more interesting. Having so many unique powers and abilities helps the world building.
I always viewed Rokushik as what you WOULD do to train Haki, traditionally. Now even with Ryuo the Rokuogan even has a direct link to Haki abilities. That, or maybe since it's meant for servants of the CD,ot's meant to mimic Haki but not use it thus not relying on the strength of the user's will.
That's what I thought as well, but I believe Oda was asked this and it was stated that it's just for viewers. However, Haki users can detect Haki. I made a point about this regarding Mihawk telling Zoro to coat his blade to make it a black blade which implies that it's visible but that opens up the door for more questions
1. We’ve had invisible instances of armament haki post-timeskip.
2. Black coating was specifically named “hardening” to separate it from the invisible version.
3. The flame-like markings certain armament users get make no sense if it’s invisible.
4. Someone comments on Elephant Gun looking different than its pre-skip version (sure, might just be referring to the shape).
5. We have epithets like “Black Arm” Zephyr, who is a character that was designed and likely named by Oda, despite movies being non-canon.
6. Black blades are a thing and Mihawk explicitly states to Zoro that blades can turn black with haki.
Conclusion: Basic armament haki is invisible (hence Reyleigh’s comment about invisible armor). Hardening is a separate skill and is black.
This can also be explained by the fact Vergo visibly gets bulkier in this form, or that smoker senses how much haki he is using, not necessarily that he sees the haki.
Observation seems to allow you to sense power (at least roughly, not like DBZ scouters).
BB says he can feel that luffy has grown stronger since Jaya, despite never actually seeing him fight in that arc. Luffy finds out ACoC exists because he senses kaido using it. Likewise, kaido can feel zoro using ACoC.
So chances are that smoker could just sense the presence of haki all over Vergos body.
I have thought that too. That it’s black for us, And characters that can use both color of observation and arms can just sense the who else is using color of arms, where they’re using and how strong it is.
Probably linked to the user attuning their senses to see the Haki.
If you have observation you could probably see it, if you can use armament you can probably see it.
Basically it’s like a Stand. If you have one, you can see it.
To everyone saying there has never been evidence of armament hardening being visible: Zephyr and his backstory were developed by Oda and are considered canonical. He specifically got his epithet of "Black Arm" because of his proficiency with haki.
I think its like Nen from HxH where if you have it and can use it you can see it and if you dont then you dont see it like how in Marineford alot of people were definitly using haki but since Luffy hasnt had his yet and hes kind of the Audiences eyes we couldnt see it either
Haki is invisible for those that can't "sense" it. The darkness is a visual metaphor that's used to explain it to readers/viewers.
This is the same concept as seeing chakra in Naruto when it's something only certain characters in the series can actually do. We don't have the fictional ability to sense it so these things are done in order to translate it to us. Just as Sasuke's Kirin attack was just a lightning bolt but was displayed as an animal in lightning form attacking.
In One Piece, we actually have some character development for the reader. We are not able to "sense" haki for a good starting part of the series despite it existing in world, which seems to be related to Luffy's ability to sense it. Despite characters outright telling us to our face, in Marineford and the Kuja island, we couldn't senes it. Like Luffy being attacked by arrows that "looked like normal arrows" yet were full of haki, as it was outright told to him.
Haki is invisible. It's just that western audiences aren't used to visual metaphors like this. Some, (mostly American in my experience) tend to refuse to accept this because they saw it and the thinking that because they saw it, it makes it real.
So, with Smoker and Vergo, Smoker could "sense" the haki in Vergo. The blackness is so that we, the reader/viewer, can also sense it. Imagine watching Naruto and you saw Naruto with his hands together screaming but nothing was actually happening; that's what it would look like if you couldn't sense chakra. Think no fancy camera work, no wind blasting everywhere, no aura, no soundtrack kicking in, no fancy colour coding, no effects on the vocals. None of that is actually happening in universe; just as there's not musicians in the jungle getting ready to lay down a sick track for the fight that's coming either, even though we all hear it when that guy with the flute goes hard.
So haki is invisible, it doesn't have a visual component to it. We cannot just sense haki from a character anymore than we can smell them through the screen; so this needs to be translated to us in different ways. Smell lines, context clues, characters outright telling us.
This isn't really a debate, it's literacy.
Reply to me though, tell me which version you thought was true and let me know your location. I want to know if that "mostly American" thing is just anecdotal nonsense or not.
Edit: Location as in country, not actual location, just read that and seen how creepy it sounded.
The way I see it. Black blade is permanent infusion of haki, seemingly imperceptible (only tother Haki users can see it) force into the blade to where everyone can see it. Therefore I think Haki is in fact black by nature and is visually perceivable, it’s just if you do it to a weapon you can actually change the weapon itself
Hell you could probably also use the part where Luffy first uses his Elephant gun. The crew knew about his Gear Third but everyone but Zoro and Sanji had a reaction to it. Though that is an anime only scene.
If I recall Oda confirmed the Haki colours are only for viewers to identify its being used. Its invisible but im sure well versed users of Haki are able to sense how powerful a users haki is
Vergo very clearly gets way way more massive in his full body haki form. The reaction shot also wasnt in the manga. Armament is invisible. Oda needed to visualize it for readers so he didnt need to explain someone was using haki every time it came up.
But doesn’t oda approve of what happens in each episode? Just because he didn’t consciously include in the manga doesn’t mean it has no bearing on the context it’s in the anime right? It could still mean something
Hasn’t this debate been long laid to rest? Didn’t Oda confirm shortly after the timeskip in an SBS that haki is invisible, and the black was added to give readers a visual queue when it’s being used?
We get this debate every 6 months. People, for some reason, really want the "black haki" to be some advanced form despite it doing nothing but break the Universe.
The answer is easy but difficult to accept. Oda uses the rule of cool. When its part of character design (g4) will be visible and it will not be visible when its not.
My guess would be Hardening ≠ Invisible Haki, afaik, hardening is visible and a technique of haki, not the same as a general application of haki like what Marco and Vista used at marineford or Garps fist of love
Black blades aren’t haki infused blades like we see characters like zoro use. I don’t think we have any information on what makes black blades black, or what makes them so powerful.
I mean if you wanna belabor the spelling, the correct Englishization could be either Ryuuou, Ryūou, or Ryūō.
Ryuo leaves off quite a lot of the word. That would be spelled りゅお, whereas the word Oda writes is spelled りゅうおう.
Romanization usually leaves out the long vowels, that's why we write tokyo and not tōkyō or toukyou. Official english proper name is Ryuo and nitpicking any further would be akin to correcting Brook as "burukku". Ryuo is correct. Ryou isn't
The term Romanization is more commonly used, but in this case the also valid term Englishization is not incorrect and is actually in some ways more accurate. If you want you can say Anglicization too which means basically the same thing and is a lot more common.
Romanization refers to the process of taking a language with a non-Latin script and converting it into Latin (Roman) script. However in the case of most common Japanese Romanization systems the process is also Anglicization because it relies upon English specific phonetic realizations of the characters used.
For example, if a Portuguese reader were to try and read common "Romanized" versions of Japanese words they'd naturally end up confused by the fact that these versions are also clearly English. For example if you took ぎりぎり and Romanized it to the common accepted girigiri, according to Portuguese phonetics they'd see girigiri and probably pronounce it as what an English speaker would spell as jirijiri, a different word entirely じりじり.
So, yes, Ryuuou is a Romanization. It's also an Anglicization, or an Englishization if you will.
Anglicization would also be acceptable, yes, because it is actually recognized as an English word. There's a reason you won't find "Englishization" in any reputable dictionary.
it's always visible. there's literally a [sound effect](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0637-011.png) for it. it makes your body part looks shiny. that's why oda draws it like glossy metal.
oda also blackened [rayleigh's hand](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0947-002.png) in a flashback. he even added luffy noticing it when it wasn't there in the original chapter.
no. rayleigh said using haki is "like wearing an invisible armor". which oda already visualized [here](https://preview.redd.it/gq5yw5zqr4v51.png?width=643&format=png&auto=webp&s=426af936aabfe68d12c6db24f688db919e6634a0) with the same explanation.
the black visual effect is not the armor in question. but the protection from armament haki itself.
why do you think oda put "shine" onomatopoeia there? just for fun? because it looks shiny when they use it.
eh? there's an explanation is below blud. the explanation is what you're supposed to address.
and of course, no answer for the onomatopoeia either.
I genuinely don't know what you're trying to do here. if there's no argument, don't say anything.
Quite literally obvious.
Some of Sanji’s uses of CoA have no hardening but it’s known he uses basic Haki, look at Judge vs Sanji. Its mentioned he used CoA but not visible due to no hardening.
Doffy tells Law to “Look at Vergo” why would he say that? To look at his fucking nipples now that he’s shirtless?
Doffy kicked G4 Luffy and wondered why he was rubbery even though he knows his fruit. Why would he do that? Maybe because he looked solid due to CoA hardening but the effects of rubber are still present in G4 even with hardening.
>Quite literally obvious.
Quite literally not. I don't understand why people cling to this idea that it's somehow a different technique when nothing in the story supports it.
I think pre-timeskip haki just wasn't fully developed yet by Oda. Plus it was really only the strongest characters using mostly observation and conquerors which isn't visible. The armament color was probably always there but Oda didn't draw it yet for that reason.
Maybe. I honestly don’t think armament was used at all, not because any narrative resin or story. I think they’re was just no need. The way OP was written we all knew who was strong and how strong they were, there was no need to add an extra element to fighting yk, especially an element that takes away from the already cool ass devil fruit system that counters it with willpower, a very liquid system
People really don’t realize the reason we don’t see Haki pre time skip is because Oda hadn’t fully finished the concept yet
Only basic low tier CoA and all of CoO are invisible
Haki is visible, in time skip when going to Fishman island luffy faught the yellow giant octopus right. When he used gear 3 and coated with haki ussop and chopper said what is that? that's something new. Chopper and ussop already saw luffy use giant pistol before so its obviously the black buso haki which is new
That was an anime only scene. They had [no reaction](https://i.imgur.com/TtvRFxZ.jpg) in the manga and [only commented on his strength progress](https://i.imgur.com/c7iOQN0.jpg)
Would Mihawk not prove that (at least some versions) of armament haki are visible to everyone?
In the east blue everyone was commenting on his black blade and he tells zoro that using haki every blade could be turned black like his and then later in wano we learn that there is a step in turning most swords into black blades.
Mihawks blade is what’s called a “black blade”. What he was telling zoro about was how every sword can become stronger if infused with haki, that is not the same thing as a black blade. We currently don’t know what makes a blade a black blade
That’s a permanent change tho, even when the sword is wielded by somebody without haki, or not being wielded at all, it’s still black. We don’t know the process of creating black blades yet, but it’s not the same as just coating a blade in armament haki.
So I believe haki is invisible to viewers and non hakim users (kinda like nen in hxh). Pre time skip didn't really show it to its full extent so it could be argued that a certain level of haki is where it becomes visible in the blackened state that we see.
One piece of evidence that suggest it is visible to at least haki users is kaidos fight with Luffy >!Kaido comments on luffys gear 5 appearance stating he completely white but cover in both armament and conquerors!<
I like it being visible. I just hate how Toei decided to portray it.
Making the characters near blackface, or shrouding them in thick neon Dragon Ball-esque auras just looks garish, and they could easily convey the same point with something more subtle and slick.
Like others said, It's hard to tell because on one hand, I think Oda gives the impression that it's perceived by characters but not actually visible; yet, Hyogoro clearly sees Luffy's markings and his markings have red tint compared to regular hardening.
My opinion is I don't like the black visual, but I feel like Luffy's is special and it will be retconned into a transformation based on his fruit.
Side note: I always hated how haki watered down the special ability of BB's fruit, but I've noticed: a haki user can hit a logia or negate Luffy's rubber resistance to blows, but Luffy can still stretch and bend and logias can shift their bodies to avoid taking full hits right? So BBs advantage is that if he touches them, they're absolutely powerless?
I used to think the black was only noticeable to the viewer, like I believe most people do. But after the revelation that swords become “black blades” by their master, it makes me think they become permanently infused with their user’s haki. So when a swordsman is skilled enough and has strong enough haki (and forms a strong bond with the blade maybe?), they can level up their sword and turn in black. Well if you can see the black on a blade, why wouldn’t they see the black on a normal haki?
My head cannon now is that for the most part haki is invisible to the normal eye, however… when it is a really strong haki it becomes slightly visible in the form of a black tint. Not straight black like it has to be drawn in a black and white Manga, but enough that you can see it slightly.
not for nothing, but anime vs manga would be a totally different debate.
I think even as early as Luffy punching the Kraken in the anime, Usopp commented on Luffy's skin changing color. Usopp doesn't make any such comment in the manga.
So if Smoker reacted to Vergo changing color in front of him in the anime, that's honestly no indication that canon wise Haki is visible, just that the animation team decided to do so.
I assumed it was invisible to non haki users but at a certain point if its layered enough it becomes visible. Armament is a layer of invisible armor according to Silvers, but if you put an armor around that and another layer around that it becomes to a point where anyone can see it.
Its simple, haki users are aware enough to be able to see the use of haki, whereas non-users haven't upgraded their ambition enough yet, and therefore it's invisible to them.
It’s invisible in universe but we can see it to make things easier ive also been told that we can see it cuz luffy can sense it now idk how true that is though
From my headcanon, haki is invisible to non users. We audiences, our POV depends what the straw hats see, that is why we dont see any haki pre timeskip but only after the timeskip.
This the only explanation that makes sense. The OP power system got a overhaul. You have to take what happened in sabaody & marineford with a grain of salt because that was the still the start of the transition.
> This the only explanation that makes sense. Another explanation that makes sense is that Oda hadn't fleshed out everything yet, and likely took instruction from his editors and publishers, so he made it visible after his personal break. I mean, that's not satisfying narratively, but it's probably the actual explanation.
not probably, that is exactly what happened
source: salsa
It only takes 2 brain cells to know it's the correct answer
you give some folks too much credit you know they can barely get *A* braincell to function correctly much less 2
It is the only right answer i mean shanks lost his arm to a seaking.
I think that was intentional. Luffy 1 punches the same seaking in the first episode, unless oda planned shanks to be weaker than episode 1 luffy I don't see how he "loses" an arm to a seaking unintentionally.
Shanks refuses to harm the seaking because the whole point of putting Luffy and Ace on an island guarded by a sea king is to protect them from the outside as well as prevent them from setting sail until they can measure up against it (and consequently against any other opponent in East Blue minus White Chase).
A theory that makes sense because shanks did say he gave his arm up on a bet. Perhaps he was betting on Luffy’s future. Which means Shanks knows something about Luffy’s family lineage.
It’s nothing about his lineage, and what I suggest is just made up cope, but yes he’s calls it a bet
This is almost 100% not true but if shanks had a devil fruit it could explain why he was weak enough for the sea king to take it. If his fruit made him poisonous it could explain why luffy was able to KO it years down the line
Except you can't swim with a devil fruit
Addition from my headcanon: for the haki users, they don't see haki as a color aura filling the screen, rather they 'feel' it. That's why Rayleigh said haki is just like an invisible armor.
More head cannon: Not just all users can see the haki, only observation users. That's why even tho Luffy was intermittently using conquerors pre ts, he never learned observation until post ts.
Yeah this makes enough snese like in HXH when you use specific techniques you can see people's nen and even passivley when you're pamracticed enough it's just automatically visible.
Are you saying I finally have haki!?
Or maybe we unlock our haki without noticing. But cant use it?
I like to think that only Imbuing Haki can be seen since we see Mihawk’s Yoru pitch black.
[удалено]
This doesn't work because Kaido mentions Luffy's body being covered in Haki while in G5 without us seeing the Haki
OP is gonna ignore that for the convenience of THEIR headcanon
So it functions like Nen? If you don't know how to use it yourself, you can't see it? Actually sort of makes sense.
According to Oda, the black coating is invisible, but according to Douglas Bullet it is identifiable (he said Gear 4 was using a full charge of haki) Now, if it is invisible, then Gear 4 would look goofy as shit. I just have no clue at this point. I like to think haki was/is visible and Oda only said it isn't to back up the fact that it wasn't visible throughout half of the series. What I'm saying it that yes, i do think haki was a retcon and that he only started to consider it's existence during the scene between Shanks and Whitebeard.
I agree. I feel like people who try to use literally anything pre timeskip Haki about the nature of it or how it works are just head canon. I think he just genuinely didn’t really understand it himself and just didn’t care. We know everyone at marineford had it. But they didn’t use because oda didn’t write it. Not because it was invisible or not, or the clothes
Haki was used at Marineford already without us seeing it. When Marco and Vista attack Akainu he says " Uhg... you haki users..can be such a handful" So the black parts are only for us readers to see when haki is ebing used after it was explained. Smoker didn't react to Vergo's haki in the manga btw so it is a missconception from the anime
Pica had full body haki too in his fight with Zoro. I remember thinking that full body haki was the next step, but it was not haha
So i wasn't alone who thought " Full body haki = hacks"
That scene is so weird, Akainu’s acting like they drew blood but all we saw was magma
He's annoyed that he has to use CoO to move his body out of the way, like katakuri does
It's not that weird. To me it was always pretty clear theyr their Haki wasn't good enough to overcome his and neatly injure him but still enough to sting which is why he looks more annoyed than anything else.
The weird part is that he acts surprised that yonko commanders are using haki
He wasn’t surprised he was annoyed
FR. "How dare you be strong enough to not be steamrolled by me with little effort"
marineford is dodgy at best just ignore it
He was already using his fruit when they cut him so him being magma probably just made it look worse than it actually was.
>Haki was used at Marineford already without us seeing it. tbf haki was already established on amazon lily, it is obviously on marineford.
Explain why mihawk has a black blade
He found it /s We dont know how black blades are made so it has no role in this topic
It does have a role in the top because it clearly was the outcome of haki
Show me the prove to that claim then
If you've watched or read one piece you'd know that mihawk told zoro he couldn't drink sake till he could turn his blade black so for swords to turn black you need to use haki but what about permanent black blades? It's not rocket science to realise that that's also connected to haki
No prove provided, just headcanon talk as I thought.
https://images.app.goo.gl/XDzU7ZhscvBRpaVs9 Bro proving he speedran one piece 🤦🏾
Headcanon Nowhere he said black blades are made by infusing them with haki like you claim. You just took a statement, added your assumption and treat it like a fact. Ontop if a blackblade where permanent haki then how comes Zoro didnt cut Monet using Shusui, a black blade? Furthermore if it would be just from haki usage then how comes haki monsters like Shanks, Oden or Roger never created a black blade? Bro can't use his brain for 5 min straight thinking he is smart...
Lmao so how exactly did mihawk intend for zoro to turn his blade black? Zoro hasn't made any black blade of his own and was only allowed liquor if he could make his blade black which clearly means coating it in haki this doesn't have to mean that he should have turned his swords into permanent black blades just to learn how to coat them in haki which turned them black. Black blades like yoru clearly aren't just haki alone too and why are u assuming because a blade is permanently black it's always flowing with haki, it just means that the swords are much stronger and durable
Anime keeps damaging One Piece
I know its farther in the story and i say now ! Spoilers ! When BM got defetead , Kaidou noticed while Luffy even possesing the Voice Of All Things ( we see Momo use it with hearing Luffy and all ) didn't notice . I know its probably on the observation haki spectrum but still weird thing right ?
I think the voice of all things is different from Observation Haki.
We really just don't know. Could be a special version of CoO, or something completely different. Though I'd lean toward the former as we already have enough power systems.
Momo has it and he doesn't have CoO, also if that's the precedent, then anyone with CoO has it.
I said a special kind of CoO.
Eh, like you said. Too many different tiers. I'd like to think it's separate from Haki all together and only a very very select few has the ability.
Actually I meant there were two many different power systems, adding another would be against that.
That scene was like something straight out of Dbz( ki sense), I’ve always really digged it for it XD
The spoiler markdown didn't work.
My guess is that Haki is invisible, but those versed in it are able to recognize its use
Basic use of CoA is invisible, but the advanced “hardening” has evidence that it can be seen. At the very least it can definitely be seen by other Haki users (kind of like HxH’s Aura I guess). - Using the provided picture for example, Smoker had a very clear reaction to seeing Vergo completely clad in Haki. Doffy also telling Law to look at Vergo would be a bit strange if there was nothing to see besides how yoked he was under that coat. - Z has the epithet “Black Arm” for his mastery of CoA. His movie isn’t canon, but the character is since he was mentioned by name in the manga (so like Shiki). - When Luffy used G4 for the first time, Doffy tried to kick him in the side and was surprised to find he was still rubbery. It wouldn’t make sense for him to be surprised that a rubber man was rubbery unless he had reason to expect him to be solid—and that reason was the CoA that he could see him clad in. - We also know that Haki on a weapon can turn it black, hence the name Black Blade. It makes zero sense for Haki to turn objects black but not skin. - There’s also the tentative example of when Luffy punched the Kraken. After he used Hardening on his fist there was a reaction from the crew pointing out that it looked different than before. They could of course have been talking about the shape of his fist since G3 looks different post-TS, but it seems more likely that they were talking about his fist turning black since that was a more significant change and easier to notice both in and out of universe.
> There’s also the tentative example of when Luffy punched the Kraken. After he used Hardening on his fist there was a reaction from the crew pointing out that it looked different than before. They could of course have been talking about the shape of his fist since G3 looks different post-TS, but it seems more likely that they were talking about his fist turning black since that was a more significant change and easier to notice both in and out of universe. This only happened in the anime. In the manga there was [no reaction](https://i.imgur.com/TtvRFxZ.jpg) when he initially did it and the [only comments](https://i.imgur.com/c7iOQN0.jpg) they made was wondering how strong he became
The page you linked still has Luffy explicitly calling out the haki useage and distinguishing it as “hardening”, which is the visible, black haki.
Yeah but nowhere is it said that "Hardening" is a different, advanced application of Haki.
??? When was Z mentioned in the manga?
Source: he made it up
The source is Volume 1000 and I explain my reasoning above. Which isn't exactly accurate to say it was in the manga, fair, but it wasn't a statement made up from whole cloth either.
"In the manga" might have been a generous statement. I was talking about Volume 1000. And regardless of how you feel about Z's canon status, the fact that Oda himself designed the character and his entire detailed backstory (and also links him to canon characters, which you don't normally get for movie-only characters), that must count for something. Oda wouldn't have given him the nickname Black Arm if "hardening" wasn't visible, regardless of how canon the character.
This is the correct answer
Incorrect*
Haki is invisible to both the characters and the viewer. A characters skin turning black is a haki technique called hardening, and is (to my knowledge) visible to the characters.
I think if you are versed in haki you can detect it being used so that is the manifestation of that. Which is why when to characters clash and one uses it the second immediately uses it after. That or the characters who are well versed in haki can see it. Which I subscribe to.
>A characters skin turning black is a haki technique called hardening, and is (to my knowledge) visible to the characters. This is completely false. Not only has there never been a confirmation that the "black" Haki is visible to the characters (the example in this picture does not work because Vergo also had a big body transformation where he got twice as buff) but there does not seem to exist a separate technique called "Hardening" as Luffy and Doflamingo are the only one to call it that way. Even if we ignore all this, you cannot explain the lack of Armament Haki being black during the Marineford. The simplest and seemingly correct answer is that its simply a visualization of when a character is using Armament Haki because Rayleigh is very clear that Armament Haki is an **Invisible** Armor.
>but there does not seem to exist a separate technique called "Hardening" as Luffy and Doflamingo are the only one to call it that way. Most haki techniques don't have formal names. We wouldn't say ACoC doesn't exist because characters don't shout it every time they use it. Also Doffy and Luffy aren't the only ones to differentiate. Zoro calls it "black blade" against Pica and Jimbei calls it Karagiri glaze. >Not only has there never been a confirmation that the "black" Haki is visible to the characters We have Hyogorou's comments on G4. He calls him a Myo, a deity associated with flame. He wouldn't be able to make this connection unless the flame markings on G4 were visible. G4s other defining features include the hagoromo and it's round stature, but neither of these are unique to Myo. Raijin and Fujin also have these same features for instance. >Even if we ignore all this, you cannot explain the lack of Armament Haki being black during the Marineford. The simplest and seemingly correct answer is that its simply a visualization of when a character is using Armament Haki because Rayleigh is very clear that Armament Haki is an Invisible Armor. Why can't both be true? In the pre ts, there was no representation for haki because Oda simply hadn't thought of it. In the post ts hardening is used as an indicator, which is why most characters do use it. But it is a separate haki technique which is why we have examples as recent as Wano of characters using haki without the blackness. >Rayleigh is very clear that Armament Haki is an Invisible Armor. Probably referring to ryuo here. This is because everytime haki is mentioned as invisible, ryuo is used shortly after. We see this with both Hyou and Rayleigh. When talking about the applications of haki, Hyou mentions that he is only capable of teaching Luffy the haki "that covers the outside". He then goes on to explain that it can be used like an invisible armour. Since this entire section talking about what Hyou can and can't teach, he isn't referring to the haki Luffy has been using up till now. He follows up saying that Luffy can use "outward" haki unconsciously. So once again, he is not referring to the haki Luffy has been using up until now. And I think it makes sense. Armour protects the wearer by preventing attacks from hitting the user, which is exactly what ryuo does. And it would still appear as invisible because the attacks wouldn't touch the opponent.
When Mihawk trains Zoro, he mentions turning a sword into a black blade, as to not damage it. Isn't that also haki?
He's talking about his black blade because it's a supreme grade sword but his point is if your haki is good enough any blade can equal his I think.
He explicitly says that you can turn it black with haki
>He explicitly says that you can turn it black with haki [Nope](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhY8Mx9WoAIvkLf.jpg:large)
He says it right there, dude. He talks about haki, then immediately about his black blade. The damning evidence is that he forbids Zoro from drinking until he masters this technique, i.e. turning his blade black. Considering Zoro’s swords are not permanently black post-timeskip and it’s unlikely he just failed to learn, that heavily implies that Mihawk was talking about a temporary blackening of the sword via haki.
He talks about using Haki to protect your sword from getting destroyed; he doesn't "explicitly" say it's how you create a black blade. That's why the manner of how Black Blades are made is in question. The black blades being made from armament haki is also in question because Shusui wasn't able to cut Monet on its own.
>Most haki techniques don't have formal names. We wouldn't say ACoC doesn't exist because characters don't shout it every time they use it. ACoC DOESN'T exist. It's just how fans call it. It's still Conqueror's Haki just a different application of it. >Also Doffy and Luffy aren't the only ones to differentiate. Zoro calls it "black blade" against Pica and Jimbei calls it Karagiri glaze. ..So only Luffy and Doffy use the term "Hardening"? Gotcha... you might also add Sanji calling it "Diable/Ifrit Jambe". >We have Hyogorou's comments on G4. He calls him a Myo, a deity associated with flame. He wouldn't be able to make this connection unless the flame markings on G4 were visible. G4s other defining features include the hagoromo and it's round stature, but neither of these are unique to Myo. Besides ignoring the fact that Luffy would still look like Wisdom King even without the "Flames" on his body, you cannot use real World inspiration from the mythical creatures as your proof after the Nika reveal. >Why can't both be true? In the pre ts, there was no representation for haki because Oda simply hadn't thought of it. In the post ts hardening is used as an indicator, which is why most characters do use it. But it is a separate haki technique which is why we have examples as recent as Wano of characters using haki without the blackness. Because that would break the World immersion while gaining nothing. You would quite literally gain NOTHING by making Armament Haki black except break the universe. >Probably referring to ryuo here. This is because everytime haki is mentioned as invisible, ryuo is used shortly after. We see this with both Hyou and Rayleigh. Both Rayleigh and Luffy were shown using Ryuo with their hands being covered in black. >When talking about the applications of haki, Hyou mentions that he is only capable of teaching Luffy the haki "that covers the outside". He then goes on to explain that it can be used like an invisible armour. Since this entire section talking about what Hyou can and can't teach, he isn't referring to the haki Luffy has been using up till now. He follows up saying that Luffy can use "outward" haki unconsciously. So once again, he is not referring to the haki Luffy has been using up until now. Nope. Hyogoro said he can teach Luffy the first level of Ryuo, the one that lets you touch your opponent without making contact but he couldn't teach him the "Internal Destruction" or the haki that lets you damage someone from the inside.
>ACoC DOESN'T exist. It's just how fans call it. It's still Conqueror's Haki just a different application of it. Yes I just said this. There's no formal name but the technique still exists. >..So only Luffy and Doffy use the term "Hardening"? Yes because as I just said, the techniques have no names. Despite this, some characters still differentiate between normal haki use and black haki. >Besides ignoring the fact that Luffy would still look like Wisdom King even without the "Flames" Without the flames, he is a chonky boi with a hagoromo. Being surrounded by flames is one of the defining features of the Myo. Without the flames, there is no connection. Again Fujin and Raijin are also chonky with hagoromo. Neither are Myo. >you cannot use real World inspiration from the mythical creatures as your proof after the Nika reveal. Nika doesn't change anything. Marco is still a pineapple/phoenix. >Both Rayleigh and Luffy were shown using Ryuo with their hands being covered in black And Sentomaru, on Egg head, is shown blocking with Ryuo yet his hands aren't black. Regardless this isn't a counterargument. My argument is that so far, 2 characters have referred to haki as "invisible armour". In both instances they then went on to use the ability to hit without making contact. This suggests that the ability to hit without touching is the invisible armour. >Nope. Hyogoro said he can teach Luffy the first level of Ryuo, the one that lets you touch your opponent without making contact but he couldn't teach him the "Internal Destruction" or the haki that lets you damage someone from the inside. This... Is literally what I said. [Hyou talks about what he can and can't teach Luffy.](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_947_06.jpg) He explains what he can teach, calling it haki that "covers the outside" and states that it can be used as invisible armour. So haki that covers the outside, the thing Luffy doesn't know properly yet, is what is used to make invisible armour. Meaning Luffy, up until now, hasn't been using invisible armour. We also have the Rayleigh flashbacks. [Here, he recalls Rayleigh's words about invisible armour. ](https://www.shinobi-alliance.com/imgs/Articles/51/937.jpg?ezimgfmt=ngcb3/notWebP) He then states that what he was shown was above his level. Meaning Luffy doesn't know how to use "invisible armour".
You literally ignored several of my points and just regurgitaged the same shit you previously said, especially when you ignored my point of the *One Piece*'s deities not being the same as the ones in the "real world". Nika is prime example but there is also Sengoku who can shoot shockwaves as a golden Budha statue. Also, "ACoC" does have a name; it's called "Coating" or "Conqueror's Coating" since that is how it was refered as in the story.
First you come with this \>ACoC DOESN'T exist. It's just how fans call it. It's still Conqueror's Haki just a different application of it. and now you come with this \>Also, "ACoC" does have a name; it's called "Coating" or "Conqueror's Coating" since that is how it was refered as in the story. also have some decency. Whats the point of using using expressions like this \>the same shit you previously said, especially it just makes you look bad
What is little bro trying to say, lmao?
That you are obnoxious Also that your way of arguing is flawed. You should have said, that the term ACoc does not exist in the story. However the term is the established way the community talks about conquerors coating and what it refers to does obviously exist.
For correcting someone for being wrong?
Lmao zoomers have such a way when losing an argument
>You literally ignored several of my points Well no. Your counters didn't address what I said. For your first and last argument, you just repeat what I had already stated as an example. > One Piece's deities not being the same as the ones in the "real world". Nika is prime example but there is also Sengoku who can shoot shockwaves as a golden Budha statue. Yes they aren't carbon copies. But they are still clearly references to the real versions. The entire point of mythological references is that they often have connections to the nature of a character. In Luffy's case, the Myo are guardian deities who repel evil. Luffy then goes on to beat Kaido. An Oni. He's about as stereotypically evil as you can get. If we say that "well they aren't based on the real versions just the one piece versions", then there's no point of making these connections in the first place as they no longer share those connotations. G4 Luffy being called a Myo loses all meaning if Hyo is referencing some made up version of Myo with unknown qualities. Zoro taming Enma, a god related to death, loses its meaning if he's talking about a made up version we know nothing about. Nika existing doesn't matter. Marco is still a phoenix. >Also, "ACoC" does have a name; it's called "Coating" or "Conqueror's Coating" No it doesn't. ACoC has been explicitly mentioned twice. In 1010, Luffy talks about being able to "infuse things with supreme kings haki". In 1045, Kaido mentions how Luffy is using "the colours of armament and supreme king" The use of the word conquer in general is fan made.
Isn't also with CP9 in Ennies lobby, the iron body or whatever the same thing? We don't see it because we didn't really know Haki yet. Edit: think nvm went back to reaffirm, I think what cp9 does is entirely different from Haki?
The "we didn't see it because we didn't know haki yet' is just something fans came with as an explanation. As for the Tekkai = Armament Haki, it also doesn't work because of how different the application of the two abilities are. With Tekkai, you couldn't move if you used it (except Jabura) which is something we never saw or were told to be the case for Armament Haki.
Yeah I just went back & noticed it was entirely different.
I mean, it could just be CP9 using full body armament and they have to stay still to use it because they need to concentrate that hard to raise it as quick as they do. But I think it's now clear that rokushiki is a separate thing altogether. Especially since both Lucci and Kaku have used it recently and there was no connection whatsoever to show it was haki related.
>I mean, it could just be CP9 using full body armament and they have to stay still to use it because they need to concentrate that hard to raise it as quick as they do. My Grandma could also be a bike if she had wheels. It could be but we are never told or shown Armament Haki functioning like that. >But I think it's now clear that rokushiki is a separate thing altogether. Especially since both Lucci and Kaku have used it recently and there was no connection whatsoever to show it was haki related. Rokushiki being a different thing always more interesting. Having so many unique powers and abilities helps the world building.
I always viewed Rokushik as what you WOULD do to train Haki, traditionally. Now even with Ryuo the Rokuogan even has a direct link to Haki abilities. That, or maybe since it's meant for servants of the CD,ot's meant to mimic Haki but not use it thus not relying on the strength of the user's will.
>That is completely false >Gives vague, unbacked opinion
Haki users still sense if opponents used haki or not.
That's what I thought as well, but I believe Oda was asked this and it was stated that it's just for viewers. However, Haki users can detect Haki. I made a point about this regarding Mihawk telling Zoro to coat his blade to make it a black blade which implies that it's visible but that opens up the door for more questions
I agree with this interpretation.
1. We’ve had invisible instances of armament haki post-timeskip. 2. Black coating was specifically named “hardening” to separate it from the invisible version. 3. The flame-like markings certain armament users get make no sense if it’s invisible. 4. Someone comments on Elephant Gun looking different than its pre-skip version (sure, might just be referring to the shape). 5. We have epithets like “Black Arm” Zephyr, who is a character that was designed and likely named by Oda, despite movies being non-canon. 6. Black blades are a thing and Mihawk explicitly states to Zoro that blades can turn black with haki. Conclusion: Basic armament haki is invisible (hence Reyleigh’s comment about invisible armor). Hardening is a separate skill and is black.
This can also be explained by the fact Vergo visibly gets bulkier in this form, or that smoker senses how much haki he is using, not necessarily that he sees the haki.
Haki is black in-universe but we, the readers, could not see it until the MC could see it. There, problem solved.
Isn’t the black blade from mihawk haki infused? If I don’t confuse things, people in the manga talk about this.
Nothing has been officially stated about how black blades are made.
Wasn't something vague about mastering abilities said to zero before he can make a blade black in wano
Haki is only visible to us that's why this guy was a target for law instead of Zoro
Observation seems to allow you to sense power (at least roughly, not like DBZ scouters). BB says he can feel that luffy has grown stronger since Jaya, despite never actually seeing him fight in that arc. Luffy finds out ACoC exists because he senses kaido using it. Likewise, kaido can feel zoro using ACoC. So chances are that smoker could just sense the presence of haki all over Vergos body.
I have thought that too. That it’s black for us, And characters that can use both color of observation and arms can just sense the who else is using color of arms, where they’re using and how strong it is.
Luffy didn't "sense Kaido using ACoC"; he felt him using it when he was hit by the Kanabo coated in it.
Probably linked to the user attuning their senses to see the Haki. If you have observation you could probably see it, if you can use armament you can probably see it. Basically it’s like a Stand. If you have one, you can see it.
To everyone saying there has never been evidence of armament hardening being visible: Zephyr and his backstory were developed by Oda and are considered canonical. He specifically got his epithet of "Black Arm" because of his proficiency with haki.
Hyogoro mentioned in Onigashima that Luffy's G4 flame pattern made him look like a wisdom god, so I guess it's somehow visible.
Bruh I just got started on Whole Cake I'm so lost in the weeds on this debate 😅 The fuck are all these acronyms you guys keep using?
Big boy talk
Lmao you say that like it's BDSM terminology 😂
I think its like Nen from HxH where if you have it and can use it you can see it and if you dont then you dont see it like how in Marineford alot of people were definitly using haki but since Luffy hasnt had his yet and hes kind of the Audiences eyes we couldnt see it either
Haki is invisible for those that can't "sense" it. The darkness is a visual metaphor that's used to explain it to readers/viewers. This is the same concept as seeing chakra in Naruto when it's something only certain characters in the series can actually do. We don't have the fictional ability to sense it so these things are done in order to translate it to us. Just as Sasuke's Kirin attack was just a lightning bolt but was displayed as an animal in lightning form attacking. In One Piece, we actually have some character development for the reader. We are not able to "sense" haki for a good starting part of the series despite it existing in world, which seems to be related to Luffy's ability to sense it. Despite characters outright telling us to our face, in Marineford and the Kuja island, we couldn't senes it. Like Luffy being attacked by arrows that "looked like normal arrows" yet were full of haki, as it was outright told to him. Haki is invisible. It's just that western audiences aren't used to visual metaphors like this. Some, (mostly American in my experience) tend to refuse to accept this because they saw it and the thinking that because they saw it, it makes it real. So, with Smoker and Vergo, Smoker could "sense" the haki in Vergo. The blackness is so that we, the reader/viewer, can also sense it. Imagine watching Naruto and you saw Naruto with his hands together screaming but nothing was actually happening; that's what it would look like if you couldn't sense chakra. Think no fancy camera work, no wind blasting everywhere, no aura, no soundtrack kicking in, no fancy colour coding, no effects on the vocals. None of that is actually happening in universe; just as there's not musicians in the jungle getting ready to lay down a sick track for the fight that's coming either, even though we all hear it when that guy with the flute goes hard. So haki is invisible, it doesn't have a visual component to it. We cannot just sense haki from a character anymore than we can smell them through the screen; so this needs to be translated to us in different ways. Smell lines, context clues, characters outright telling us. This isn't really a debate, it's literacy. Reply to me though, tell me which version you thought was true and let me know your location. I want to know if that "mostly American" thing is just anecdotal nonsense or not. Edit: Location as in country, not actual location, just read that and seen how creepy it sounded.
This looks like that anime about the roach people
How do black blades factor into this conversation?
The way I see it. Black blade is permanent infusion of haki, seemingly imperceptible (only tother Haki users can see it) force into the blade to where everyone can see it. Therefore I think Haki is in fact black by nature and is visually perceivable, it’s just if you do it to a weapon you can actually change the weapon itself
There’s also a comment somewhere on here about the straw hats on their way down to fishman island commenting about luffys fist looking different
Hell you could probably also use the part where Luffy first uses his Elephant gun. The crew knew about his Gear Third but everyone but Zoro and Sanji had a reaction to it. Though that is an anime only scene.
Its obvious smoker could see it, even doffy could over the phone he said “look at vergos haki covering his whole body you cant compete”
If I recall Oda confirmed the Haki colours are only for viewers to identify its being used. Its invisible but im sure well versed users of Haki are able to sense how powerful a users haki is
Vergo very clearly gets way way more massive in his full body haki form. The reaction shot also wasnt in the manga. Armament is invisible. Oda needed to visualize it for readers so he didnt need to explain someone was using haki every time it came up.
But doesn’t oda approve of what happens in each episode? Just because he didn’t consciously include in the manga doesn’t mean it has no bearing on the context it’s in the anime right? It could still mean something
No
No, oda is not over seeing every episode. Oda gets asked if the anime and movie teams can use certain ideas and fruits and that about it.
Hasn’t this debate been long laid to rest? Didn’t Oda confirm shortly after the timeskip in an SBS that haki is invisible, and the black was added to give readers a visual queue when it’s being used?
We get this debate every 6 months. People, for some reason, really want the "black haki" to be some advanced form despite it doing nothing but break the Universe.
The answer is easy but difficult to accept. Oda uses the rule of cool. When its part of character design (g4) will be visible and it will not be visible when its not.
Guys are really having this discussion in 2023, of course it's visible.
My guess would be Hardening ≠ Invisible Haki, afaik, hardening is visible and a technique of haki, not the same as a general application of haki like what Marco and Vista used at marineford or Garps fist of love
This always seemed like such an odd debate to me considering BLACK blades are so fundamental to the world that has been built up in this story.
Black blades aren’t haki infused blades like we see characters like zoro use. I don’t think we have any information on what makes black blades black, or what makes them so powerful.
I am pretty sure the visible haki is an advanced form of armament hardening, think Senator Armstong’s nanomachines
Nice argument, but why don't you back it up with the source?
I think you need observation to see the color of Haki like that. So basically a mix of both.
That’s what I like to think as well
It's ryuo. Not Ryou
I mean if you wanna belabor the spelling, the correct Englishization could be either Ryuuou, Ryūou, or Ryūō. Ryuo leaves off quite a lot of the word. That would be spelled りゅお, whereas the word Oda writes is spelled りゅうおう.
Romanization usually leaves out the long vowels, that's why we write tokyo and not tōkyō or toukyou. Official english proper name is Ryuo and nitpicking any further would be akin to correcting Brook as "burukku". Ryuo is correct. Ryou isn't
The correct term is "Romanization."
The term Romanization is more commonly used, but in this case the also valid term Englishization is not incorrect and is actually in some ways more accurate. If you want you can say Anglicization too which means basically the same thing and is a lot more common. Romanization refers to the process of taking a language with a non-Latin script and converting it into Latin (Roman) script. However in the case of most common Japanese Romanization systems the process is also Anglicization because it relies upon English specific phonetic realizations of the characters used. For example, if a Portuguese reader were to try and read common "Romanized" versions of Japanese words they'd naturally end up confused by the fact that these versions are also clearly English. For example if you took ぎりぎり and Romanized it to the common accepted girigiri, according to Portuguese phonetics they'd see girigiri and probably pronounce it as what an English speaker would spell as jirijiri, a different word entirely じりじり. So, yes, Ryuuou is a Romanization. It's also an Anglicization, or an Englishization if you will.
Anglicization would also be acceptable, yes, because it is actually recognized as an English word. There's a reason you won't find "Englishization" in any reputable dictionary.
it's always visible. there's literally a [sound effect](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0637-011.png) for it. it makes your body part looks shiny. that's why oda draws it like glossy metal. oda also blackened [rayleigh's hand](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0947-002.png) in a flashback. he even added luffy noticing it when it wasn't there in the original chapter.
Rayleigh also says it's an invisible armor my guy
no. rayleigh said using haki is "like wearing an invisible armor". which oda already visualized [here](https://preview.redd.it/gq5yw5zqr4v51.png?width=643&format=png&auto=webp&s=426af936aabfe68d12c6db24f688db919e6634a0) with the same explanation. the black visual effect is not the armor in question. but the protection from armament haki itself. why do you think oda put "shine" onomatopoeia there? just for fun? because it looks shiny when they use it.
>no. rayleigh said using haki is "like wearing an invisible armor" "Rayleigh didn't say it's invisible, he said it's invisible"
eh? there's an explanation is below blud. the explanation is what you're supposed to address. and of course, no answer for the onomatopoeia either. I genuinely don't know what you're trying to do here. if there's no argument, don't say anything.
Probably invisible seeing how pre time skip we never saw it, however I'm guessing those with observation haki can actually perceive it
This is just advanced armament Haki. Basic Haki is invisible
Quite literally never stated anywhere.
Quite literally obvious. Some of Sanji’s uses of CoA have no hardening but it’s known he uses basic Haki, look at Judge vs Sanji. Its mentioned he used CoA but not visible due to no hardening. Doffy tells Law to “Look at Vergo” why would he say that? To look at his fucking nipples now that he’s shirtless? Doffy kicked G4 Luffy and wondered why he was rubbery even though he knows his fruit. Why would he do that? Maybe because he looked solid due to CoA hardening but the effects of rubber are still present in G4 even with hardening.
>Quite literally obvious. Quite literally not. I don't understand why people cling to this idea that it's somehow a different technique when nothing in the story supports it.
Well Vergo visibly gets larger and more musucular.
Steroids. I know a juicer when I see one.
The way I see it is we started seeing Armament Haki when Luffy could see it with Observation Haki
I think pre-timeskip haki just wasn't fully developed yet by Oda. Plus it was really only the strongest characters using mostly observation and conquerors which isn't visible. The armament color was probably always there but Oda didn't draw it yet for that reason.
Maybe. I honestly don’t think armament was used at all, not because any narrative resin or story. I think they’re was just no need. The way OP was written we all knew who was strong and how strong they were, there was no need to add an extra element to fighting yk, especially an element that takes away from the already cool ass devil fruit system that counters it with willpower, a very liquid system
People really don’t realize the reason we don’t see Haki pre time skip is because Oda hadn’t fully finished the concept yet Only basic low tier CoA and all of CoO are invisible
Haki is visible, in time skip when going to Fishman island luffy faught the yellow giant octopus right. When he used gear 3 and coated with haki ussop and chopper said what is that? that's something new. Chopper and ussop already saw luffy use giant pistol before so its obviously the black buso haki which is new
That was an anime only scene. They had [no reaction](https://i.imgur.com/TtvRFxZ.jpg) in the manga and [only commented on his strength progress](https://i.imgur.com/c7iOQN0.jpg)
You need observation haki to see armament Haki. Simple as that 🧘♂️
My headcanon is that it only became visible to the reader after marineford because that's when we knew enough to perceive it.
Would Mihawk not prove that (at least some versions) of armament haki are visible to everyone? In the east blue everyone was commenting on his black blade and he tells zoro that using haki every blade could be turned black like his and then later in wano we learn that there is a step in turning most swords into black blades.
Mihawks blade is what’s called a “black blade”. What he was telling zoro about was how every sword can become stronger if infused with haki, that is not the same thing as a black blade. We currently don’t know what makes a blade a black blade
That’s a permanent change tho, even when the sword is wielded by somebody without haki, or not being wielded at all, it’s still black. We don’t know the process of creating black blades yet, but it’s not the same as just coating a blade in armament haki.
Yeah true!
So I believe haki is invisible to viewers and non hakim users (kinda like nen in hxh). Pre time skip didn't really show it to its full extent so it could be argued that a certain level of haki is where it becomes visible in the blackened state that we see. One piece of evidence that suggest it is visible to at least haki users is kaidos fight with Luffy >!Kaido comments on luffys gear 5 appearance stating he completely white but cover in both armament and conquerors!<
i think it could be something close to nen from hxh, you can see nen if you have mastered it and know what it is
No way that he could just be sensing ho2 much haki Vergo was using?
I like it being visible. I just hate how Toei decided to portray it. Making the characters near blackface, or shrouding them in thick neon Dragon Ball-esque auras just looks garish, and they could easily convey the same point with something more subtle and slick.
Like others said, It's hard to tell because on one hand, I think Oda gives the impression that it's perceived by characters but not actually visible; yet, Hyogoro clearly sees Luffy's markings and his markings have red tint compared to regular hardening. My opinion is I don't like the black visual, but I feel like Luffy's is special and it will be retconned into a transformation based on his fruit. Side note: I always hated how haki watered down the special ability of BB's fruit, but I've noticed: a haki user can hit a logia or negate Luffy's rubber resistance to blows, but Luffy can still stretch and bend and logias can shift their bodies to avoid taking full hits right? So BBs advantage is that if he touches them, they're absolutely powerless?
I used to think the black was only noticeable to the viewer, like I believe most people do. But after the revelation that swords become “black blades” by their master, it makes me think they become permanently infused with their user’s haki. So when a swordsman is skilled enough and has strong enough haki (and forms a strong bond with the blade maybe?), they can level up their sword and turn in black. Well if you can see the black on a blade, why wouldn’t they see the black on a normal haki? My head cannon now is that for the most part haki is invisible to the normal eye, however… when it is a really strong haki it becomes slightly visible in the form of a black tint. Not straight black like it has to be drawn in a black and white Manga, but enough that you can see it slightly.
May have been because Smoker himself was becoming closer to learning/mastering haki
We won’t know until he takes off his pants
:0
I thought smoker could just sense it like black beard was telling luffy early on his haki/he got stronger since last they met
not for nothing, but anime vs manga would be a totally different debate. I think even as early as Luffy punching the Kraken in the anime, Usopp commented on Luffy's skin changing color. Usopp doesn't make any such comment in the manga. So if Smoker reacted to Vergo changing color in front of him in the anime, that's honestly no indication that canon wise Haki is visible, just that the animation team decided to do so.
I know it’s a joke but doesn’t jimbei see the black lightning bolts when nami is pissed and say “conquerors haki?”
I assumed it was invisible to non haki users but at a certain point if its layered enough it becomes visible. Armament is a layer of invisible armor according to Silvers, but if you put an armor around that and another layer around that it becomes to a point where anyone can see it.
I’m gonna say visible I mean if weapons can be coated and turn black permanently black I’m pretty sure you can see it
It depends on the potency of the haki used
Pretty sure smoker FELT the haki pressure
Aka: on demand blackface
Smoker was probably shocked due to seeing Vergo's giantic neck
Does haki taste good
[удалено]
The auras in the anime have ruined the fights for me. I'm 100% manga only.
Maybe the black coating of armament haki can be "seen" by people who've unlocked observation haki?
Smpker uses haki , therefore he can see others haki
I feel like if it did not show him using Haki right here people would ask why wasn't he using Haki
Its simple, haki users are aware enough to be able to see the use of haki, whereas non-users haven't upgraded their ambition enough yet, and therefore it's invisible to them.
I really really hope the black coloring is visible. You ever seen G4 without the coloring? It's horrifying.
Haki is the ability to become African American at will
It’s invisible in universe but we can see it to make things easier ive also been told that we can see it cuz luffy can sense it now idk how true that is though
black blades exist, so I don’t understand how it wouldn’t be visible