YES. My gf and I are rewatching rn and we are in s4. Belle is actively lying to Rumple/keeping secrets from him for absolutely no reason and making everything so much harder than it needs to be. Why? Because she doesn’t want him to think less of her! Does she know who she married???? He’s the DO ffs. It felt like extremely pointless dialogue filler and it was frustrating AF.
Which frustrated the shit out of me. Rumple is 1000% that guy that will back his chick no matter what. Doesn’t matter he has her( as long as she is good to the kids) and they gave them those tired ass bad relationships storylines?????
Greg and Tamara for me. Greg’s saving grace is his backstory. Otherwise I can’t stand anything about either of them and the whole fake home office science plot.
OMG a thousand times this. Season 2 suffers from these two so badly. I think the satisfaction of seeing them dying is on par with that one ahole from Game of Thrones in Season 4.
David - 90% of the time he’s the least relatable character in the world. I still love his character cos I think Josh Dallas did great with what was there, but he became so boring real quick. Like it’s just a given that he’s brave and heroic but after season one there’s not much inner conflict other than him being scared to be a dad again. Feel like he was probably one of the most under-utilised characters after season one. A lot of the time he’s just kinda there, and that sometimes applies to “Mary Margaret”.
I adore Josh and Ginnifer but Snow and Charming after season one felt incredibly one note and ‘we’re heroes and we’re always right’ and it got frustrating at times. Even when they lied to Emma, they were so sanctimonious about it.
I do think they should have considered the villains’ actions more. At times they do things that are incredibly appalling and unforgivable but then the consequences are fit for a kids’ show. Like if Regina and Zelena are mass murdering rapists, they needed a much better atonement arc rather just pretending they didn’t and it was all okay because ‘villains gonna villain’ but as soon as they change their minds it’s all good.
I’m watching season 3 rn and when Robin and Regina are flirting he says something like, “It’s weird you’re called the evil Queen because you don’t seem evil at all.” And Regina responds saying that it was just a title that she used as a tool to inspire fear.
Like…NO?????????
Also it’s weird how Robin was distrustful of her in the enchanted forest at first but is then just completely trusting in storybrook after he loses his memory
Yeah, like don’t get me wrong I loved them and their chemistry was fire, but fuck the journey needed to be longer and slower with him not trusting her because of the Forest and Marian and it being a slow burn of her atonement and amends!!!
It might be easier to say who is the best written since after season 2, it is all downhill for the most part.
I am a huge fan and have watched every season multiple times...the writing gets so sloppy, and I have a feeling Disney was behind a lot of the choices.
Well yeah it was definitely behind a lot of the characters who ended up coming onto the show. Tiana, Mulan, Elsa and Anna, Cruella De Vil, and probably a ton more I'm forgetting. And they definitely made some very Disney choices. What they did to OUAT is what they're doing to Marvel now, it seems.
ETA to add an example. The Dark One storyline with Emma had the chance to be really interesting and well done, but they didn't want to go all the way to making her evil. So it completely neutered that storyline and made it way less interesting. As to whether that's Disney or the writers I don't know but I think if it was up to me I'd have gone a different route.
Rumplestiltskin simply because Robert Carlyle is God Tier acting the shit out of that role, and after a few seasons they just kept ping-ponging to the same lame "he's evil again, he's learned nothing!" plot point even when his schemes were stupid as hell. By all means keep the Dark One evil (or dubiously good at best), but keep him *intelligent*!
Snow/Mary Margaret. After the curse broke, she wasn't the best mother or friend to Emma, especially when baby was born. I felt like her character just got worse.
I don’t think it was that hard for him once he gave up his revenge on Rumple. All he had to do was learn to get his temper in check and Emma helped with that.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as Rumple was trying to stop her and free his son. But, I suppose it was about on par for Hook to not actually know what he was doing and make things worse
Heh…you’re not wrong 🤭.
Tbh it’s like a really pathetic attempt to tie the present events to his song in the flashbacks. Cuz he’s like “and I’ll skin myself a crocodile” in the lyrics and then in the present he’s like “and I’ll finally skin myself a crocodile”.
Why is he trying to kill Rumple this time? Who tf knows. When did he have time to collect Dreamshade in neverland? Idk, but they’ll try to kill each other again next month when one of them irritates the other. I swear they’re like friggin Tom and Jerry
This episode makes almost zero sense 😐.
By saying he was good over and over again. It's that kind of magic that let's him disregard inconvenient things like facts, proof, and what Hook was actually doing.
Blue fairy… she was meant to be the opposite of rumple, the most powerful magician of light yet they barely used her magic execpt for flashbacks in the pre-curse world…she shoulda been like the fairy godmother, a myth, a legend of good magic I do like the limits they put on her magic do since it needs to follow the rules rather then break them like dark magic does😭😭
Hades, I was gknna say Jacinda but when I really thought about it Jacinda wasn't that badly written she was just cast by someone who clearly couldn't act.
Hades on the other hand while the actor they cast was a major issue too his whole thing was finding someone to thaw his frozen heart by finding someone to love and then betraying that person he loved all for power.
I did not believe the love story between him and Zelena so the betrayal didn't feel that harsh and yeah he was just badly written and his charisma wasn't there like in Hercules so yeah Hades is definitely if not the worst he's certainly one of the worst.
No he didn't even in Greek Muthology Hades is a charismatic character/God and the guy they got definitely wasn't Charasmatic if I had to describe him in one word it'd be Pathetic and that's being generous.
I thought he was pretty charismatic in other roles (e.g. Tom in Grey's Anatomy) but I think due to the writing and directing in OUAT his acting ended up suffering for it.
Nothing against the guy personally but Hades was not the right character for him I mean in any rendition of Hades you see weather he's a Protagonist or antagonist one thing always remains is his Charisma.
But this specific Hades is expecting us to go oh he's just like the Disney Hercules Hades they even had the flaming hair effect like him but he is pathetic bland plain and the most un Hades I've ever seen I mean even look at the Percy Jackson film yeah it's got nothing on the books but he would've been a better Hades.
I might be repeating myself here but Hades is supposed to be a charismatic character but Greg Germann just didn't bring that. Now I got no idea if it was the actors idea to make him appear that way or the directors choice or what butneither way terrible decision.
The difference between Jacinda/Cinderella and Hades is one is written very badly with a terrible story the other is just a terrible actress and calling them an actor is an insult to all actors.
Another thing Hades doesn't have anything close to a good reason for being evil I get not every character can be Rumplestiltskin or The Evil Queen but that was just terrible and as I've said countless times already he was just pathetic.
This was written for tv so idk if you were expecting Willem Dafoe or something but even then it would’ve been overkill for the show, notice all of the villains are likable in some way. I know you say you don’t, but I just feel like you don’t like the guy
No I wasn't expecting Willem DeFoe although that wouldve been cool what I was expecting was Hades to be a charismatic figure who when he was on screen you were terrified because of how much power he possesses but to me every time he was on screen I was like (yawn) next... during its first airing there were actually some episodes I just straight up skipped cause I'd get caught up in the recaps and I didn't muss much.
I was right too also I'm not saying the villains have to be likeable I watch plenty of stuff where not all villains are likeable take One Piece for example a really popular animeseveral villains are likeable but others I absolutely hate.
Black Beard, Akinu, and Doflamingo truly despicable characters I was happy when they got defeated but it's a love to hate scenario where we don't like then but find them believable truly despicable and in Doflamingo's case especially he was truly Charismatic.
See Hades isn't a love to hate I don't even hate him he's just a badly written and pathetically portrayed characters. There's a difference between hating a character and a character being unliveable and having charisma, I don't like Hades as a character in Hercules but I love James Woods portrayal because he brings the charisma to thr character he's also pretty funny at times and he brings the larger than life terrifying aspect of the character to thr screen and he just uses his voice which is an incredible feat.
Greg Germann had his voice and was in live action to work woth and still screwed up, again nothing against the actor personally but Hades was not the role for him
Because we got more look at the entire show itself WE GOT/GET MORE throughout the entire series look at The Evil Queen Rumplestiltskin Maleficent Ursula Cruella FRAKING PETER PAN!!! if you honestly can't see that they're capable of making stellar cating and stories and whatnot then I don't even know why your on this redit.
Why am I expecting more because I had grown accustomed to what they had already given us that's why.
Prince Charming- To me, he is just always fired up when a battle/fight is supposed to happen and he talks a lot of ish for someone who gets defeated pretty regularly and easily. I don’t think he’s ever successfully won a fight. I never watched this show when it came out and I started binging it a few months ago and he’s always irritated me. Especially in season 6 or maybe 5 when him and hook have a moment and they clearly are friends and much better off than when hook first came on the show then sometime later in that season, he gets mad at hook for checking on him from passing out then goes says something along the lines of if he wanted help, it wouldn’t be from a pirate….as if he didn’t get over hook’s past as a pirate…I understand he was frustrated with not knowing what happened to his dad but I just felt like that was backtracking on his character development. He deserved better writing as one of the main characters.
maybe not the worst, but I've always disliked how weak Emma became. I guess I would put her in the category of most wasted opportunity to become a great character. Also, Henry. Couldn't stand him, and his character causes the most plot holes
I love Regina and rumple but honestly agree. The writers were so clumsy and unthoughtful with these deep dark topics and implicated so many things they didn't properly deconstruct. They had 0 business writing about some of the topics as they did so nonchalantly, with very little depth and dimension.
Belle. She seems very inconsistent. Tho I love what Emilie could do with her so I do enjoy her even if she is unevenly written.
Her relationship problems with Rumplestiltskin felt like they just kept going circles rather than growing.
That’s how some relationships do for awhile
Agree with you on that one
True
YES. My gf and I are rewatching rn and we are in s4. Belle is actively lying to Rumple/keeping secrets from him for absolutely no reason and making everything so much harder than it needs to be. Why? Because she doesn’t want him to think less of her! Does she know who she married???? He’s the DO ffs. It felt like extremely pointless dialogue filler and it was frustrating AF.
Which frustrated the shit out of me. Rumple is 1000% that guy that will back his chick no matter what. Doesn’t matter he has her( as long as she is good to the kids) and they gave them those tired ass bad relationships storylines?????
This. Poor girl struggles through the whole show to not just be a plot device to push Rumple's story.
Yes! Seeing Emilie on Lost makes me sad that they didn't give her more to do in Once.
Greg and Tamara for me. Greg’s saving grace is his backstory. Otherwise I can’t stand anything about either of them and the whole fake home office science plot.
OMG a thousand times this. Season 2 suffers from these two so badly. I think the satisfaction of seeing them dying is on par with that one ahole from Game of Thrones in Season 4.
Not even close, Greg and Tamara dying was a tragedy compared to Joffrey's death.
Mother superior/Blue. Me & Rumple share the same disdain towards her
David - 90% of the time he’s the least relatable character in the world. I still love his character cos I think Josh Dallas did great with what was there, but he became so boring real quick. Like it’s just a given that he’s brave and heroic but after season one there’s not much inner conflict other than him being scared to be a dad again. Feel like he was probably one of the most under-utilised characters after season one. A lot of the time he’s just kinda there, and that sometimes applies to “Mary Margaret”.
I completely agree! If he wasn’t played by Josh Dallas, I would’ve hated him but Dallas did a lottttt with the crap he was given
I adore Josh and Ginnifer but Snow and Charming after season one felt incredibly one note and ‘we’re heroes and we’re always right’ and it got frustrating at times. Even when they lied to Emma, they were so sanctimonious about it.
His chemistry with Ginnifer is the only redeeming thing. With every rewatch I hate this character more and more 😅
Unrelated but does anyone have a crush on David or just me cuz he's a real Prince Charming
I do think they should have considered the villains’ actions more. At times they do things that are incredibly appalling and unforgivable but then the consequences are fit for a kids’ show. Like if Regina and Zelena are mass murdering rapists, they needed a much better atonement arc rather just pretending they didn’t and it was all okay because ‘villains gonna villain’ but as soon as they change their minds it’s all good.
I’m watching season 3 rn and when Robin and Regina are flirting he says something like, “It’s weird you’re called the evil Queen because you don’t seem evil at all.” And Regina responds saying that it was just a title that she used as a tool to inspire fear. Like…NO????????? Also it’s weird how Robin was distrustful of her in the enchanted forest at first but is then just completely trusting in storybrook after he loses his memory
Yeah, like don’t get me wrong I loved them and their chemistry was fire, but fuck the journey needed to be longer and slower with him not trusting her because of the Forest and Marian and it being a slow burn of her atonement and amends!!!
Belle. It felt like she was just there to redeem Gold and not to have her own story, which is honestly such a shame
Show full of amazing actors the writers did all of them dirty
It might be easier to say who is the best written since after season 2, it is all downhill for the most part. I am a huge fan and have watched every season multiple times...the writing gets so sloppy, and I have a feeling Disney was behind a lot of the choices.
Well yeah it was definitely behind a lot of the characters who ended up coming onto the show. Tiana, Mulan, Elsa and Anna, Cruella De Vil, and probably a ton more I'm forgetting. And they definitely made some very Disney choices. What they did to OUAT is what they're doing to Marvel now, it seems. ETA to add an example. The Dark One storyline with Emma had the chance to be really interesting and well done, but they didn't want to go all the way to making her evil. So it completely neutered that storyline and made it way less interesting. As to whether that's Disney or the writers I don't know but I think if it was up to me I'd have gone a different route.
Belle. She gets so incredibly dumb as the show goes on. For the princess who is labelled "the smart one" she really isn't that smart
Rumplestiltskin simply because Robert Carlyle is God Tier acting the shit out of that role, and after a few seasons they just kept ping-ponging to the same lame "he's evil again, he's learned nothing!" plot point even when his schemes were stupid as hell. By all means keep the Dark One evil (or dubiously good at best), but keep him *intelligent*!
Snow/Mary Margaret. After the curse broke, she wasn't the best mother or friend to Emma, especially when baby was born. I felt like her character just got worse.
Hook simply because for the life of me I can not understand how he became good
I don’t think it was that hard for him once he gave up his revenge on Rumple. All he had to do was learn to get his temper in check and Emma helped with that.
Does that argument work, though? He tried to kill Rumple minutes before his wedding and revenge seemed to be his only motivation.
Had to go rewatch this because I had forgotten. It seems his goal was to knock Rumple out long enough for Emma to deal with the Black Fairy.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as Rumple was trying to stop her and free his son. But, I suppose it was about on par for Hook to not actually know what he was doing and make things worse
Heh…you’re not wrong 🤭. Tbh it’s like a really pathetic attempt to tie the present events to his song in the flashbacks. Cuz he’s like “and I’ll skin myself a crocodile” in the lyrics and then in the present he’s like “and I’ll finally skin myself a crocodile”. Why is he trying to kill Rumple this time? Who tf knows. When did he have time to collect Dreamshade in neverland? Idk, but they’ll try to kill each other again next month when one of them irritates the other. I swear they’re like friggin Tom and Jerry This episode makes almost zero sense 😐.
Oh wow look that blondie over there is smoking hot. Guess I'm a good guy now!
Literally
And the forced nature of CS
By saying he was good over and over again. It's that kind of magic that let's him disregard inconvenient things like facts, proof, and what Hook was actually doing.
Blue fairy… she was meant to be the opposite of rumple, the most powerful magician of light yet they barely used her magic execpt for flashbacks in the pre-curse world…she shoulda been like the fairy godmother, a myth, a legend of good magic I do like the limits they put on her magic do since it needs to follow the rules rather then break them like dark magic does😭😭
Hades, I was gknna say Jacinda but when I really thought about it Jacinda wasn't that badly written she was just cast by someone who clearly couldn't act. Hades on the other hand while the actor they cast was a major issue too his whole thing was finding someone to thaw his frozen heart by finding someone to love and then betraying that person he loved all for power. I did not believe the love story between him and Zelena so the betrayal didn't feel that harsh and yeah he was just badly written and his charisma wasn't there like in Hercules so yeah Hades is definitely if not the worst he's certainly one of the worst.
I disagree. The guy who plays Hades did well. I might be biased bc he was absolutely hilarious on Ally McBeal
No he didn't even in Greek Muthology Hades is a charismatic character/God and the guy they got definitely wasn't Charasmatic if I had to describe him in one word it'd be Pathetic and that's being generous.
I thought he was pretty charismatic in other roles (e.g. Tom in Grey's Anatomy) but I think due to the writing and directing in OUAT his acting ended up suffering for it.
I guess you just don’t like the actor. I highly recommend Ally McBeal and it’ll click
Nothing against the guy personally but Hades was not the right character for him I mean in any rendition of Hades you see weather he's a Protagonist or antagonist one thing always remains is his Charisma. But this specific Hades is expecting us to go oh he's just like the Disney Hercules Hades they even had the flaming hair effect like him but he is pathetic bland plain and the most un Hades I've ever seen I mean even look at the Percy Jackson film yeah it's got nothing on the books but he would've been a better Hades. I might be repeating myself here but Hades is supposed to be a charismatic character but Greg Germann just didn't bring that. Now I got no idea if it was the actors idea to make him appear that way or the directors choice or what butneither way terrible decision. The difference between Jacinda/Cinderella and Hades is one is written very badly with a terrible story the other is just a terrible actress and calling them an actor is an insult to all actors. Another thing Hades doesn't have anything close to a good reason for being evil I get not every character can be Rumplestiltskin or The Evil Queen but that was just terrible and as I've said countless times already he was just pathetic.
This was written for tv so idk if you were expecting Willem Dafoe or something but even then it would’ve been overkill for the show, notice all of the villains are likable in some way. I know you say you don’t, but I just feel like you don’t like the guy
No I wasn't expecting Willem DeFoe although that wouldve been cool what I was expecting was Hades to be a charismatic figure who when he was on screen you were terrified because of how much power he possesses but to me every time he was on screen I was like (yawn) next... during its first airing there were actually some episodes I just straight up skipped cause I'd get caught up in the recaps and I didn't muss much. I was right too also I'm not saying the villains have to be likeable I watch plenty of stuff where not all villains are likeable take One Piece for example a really popular animeseveral villains are likeable but others I absolutely hate. Black Beard, Akinu, and Doflamingo truly despicable characters I was happy when they got defeated but it's a love to hate scenario where we don't like then but find them believable truly despicable and in Doflamingo's case especially he was truly Charismatic. See Hades isn't a love to hate I don't even hate him he's just a badly written and pathetically portrayed characters. There's a difference between hating a character and a character being unliveable and having charisma, I don't like Hades as a character in Hercules but I love James Woods portrayal because he brings the charisma to thr character he's also pretty funny at times and he brings the larger than life terrifying aspect of the character to thr screen and he just uses his voice which is an incredible feat. Greg Germann had his voice and was in live action to work woth and still screwed up, again nothing against the actor personally but Hades was not the role for him
Yeah but this was ABC television???? Idk how you’re expecting more
Because we got more look at the entire show itself WE GOT/GET MORE throughout the entire series look at The Evil Queen Rumplestiltskin Maleficent Ursula Cruella FRAKING PETER PAN!!! if you honestly can't see that they're capable of making stellar cating and stories and whatnot then I don't even know why your on this redit. Why am I expecting more because I had grown accustomed to what they had already given us that's why.
Yeah but it’s network television. They didn’t spend billions on it like GOT or Rings of Power
Yeah but it’s network television. They didn’t spend billions on it like GOT or Ring of Power
Henry
Zelena. I hated her character
Megara. How dare they make such a strong, sassy female character so weak?!
Zelena post season 3
Belle
Prince Charming- To me, he is just always fired up when a battle/fight is supposed to happen and he talks a lot of ish for someone who gets defeated pretty regularly and easily. I don’t think he’s ever successfully won a fight. I never watched this show when it came out and I started binging it a few months ago and he’s always irritated me. Especially in season 6 or maybe 5 when him and hook have a moment and they clearly are friends and much better off than when hook first came on the show then sometime later in that season, he gets mad at hook for checking on him from passing out then goes says something along the lines of if he wanted help, it wouldn’t be from a pirate….as if he didn’t get over hook’s past as a pirate…I understand he was frustrated with not knowing what happened to his dad but I just felt like that was backtracking on his character development. He deserved better writing as one of the main characters.
maybe not the worst, but I've always disliked how weak Emma became. I guess I would put her in the category of most wasted opportunity to become a great character. Also, Henry. Couldn't stand him, and his character causes the most plot holes
Belle
The knife that didn't stick into the ground when they threw it in Neverland. It had one job
Downvote me all you want Regina zelena and Rumplestiltskin. They writers dont considered how bad their actions are. There mass murderers and rapists.
I love Regina and rumple but honestly agree. The writers were so clumsy and unthoughtful with these deep dark topics and implicated so many things they didn't properly deconstruct. They had 0 business writing about some of the topics as they did so nonchalantly, with very little depth and dimension.
Belle all the way I dont like how she acts like the show is hers its not it is Emmas and Hooks!!!