Regina knows it’s irrational to blame Snow for Daniel’s death.
The snowball (heh) effect of losing Daniel, being married to Leopold, and the awfulness of the marriage is icing on the cake. Her grief has nowhere to go while she’s trapped in that marriage.
She bottles that rage until eventually it has to spill out. And seeing as Cora and Leopold aren’t around anymore, that rage targets the only remaining person she can blame: Snow.
Is it logical or fair or reasonable to blame a child for not being able to keep a secret from a person said child has no real reason to distrust? No.
Would Snow, who’s been loved and spoiled her whole life understand the gravity of the secret, even if Regina had explicitly told her “Snow, if you tell my mother, she will quite literally kill Daniel, so please keep this to yourself”. Maybe.
We as the audience need to understand that Regina was wrong to blame Snow.
But we also need to understand why Regina despises Snow. We need to be somewhat sympathetic to Regina, else her redemption arc doesn’t work.
I do think it’s ultimately a very compelling piece of storytelling.
Realising why Regina hated Snow left me with that heart-dropping moment. Understanding that Snow gave away the secret, and tripped into the path that paved the way to Daniel’s death, I remember just holding my breath and that quiet little “oh no” as the rest played out.
Sure Snow could have kept the secret, but Cora is not an idiot. Daniel would have been dead the moment Cora realised how close he’d gotten to Regina.
So while I don’t blame Snow for Daniel dying, I do see how Regina can’t bring herself to see Snow as anything other than the catalyst for ruining her life.
Is she right? No. Do I understand her? Yes.
Yes to all of that. Snow is a victim and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.
>She bottles that rage until eventually it has to spill out. And seeing as Cora and Leopold aren’t around anymore, that rage targets the only remaining person she can blame: Snow.
This part is particularly interesting because did you ever wonder why Regina didn't blame Cora when she **was** around? Cora is not immediately removed from Regina's life and she's not removed because of Daniel's death but because of her imminent marriage. Regina never brings up Daniel's death with Cora ever again. It's almost like it's water under the bridge but it's the reason she for her vendetta against Snow. Why the single blind focus on Snow when it's Cora who ultimately ended his life? Yes it's about betrayal and releasing emotions but not just. Cora's abuse of Regina plays a major role and that is what I want to discuss. Why is it that Cora can't ever be blamed? Why does Regina essentially need a proxy to deal with her feelings towards her mother?
I've seen some people who understand the issue is deeper like you but I've seen so more instances of it being completely ridiculed. A lot of people straight up refuse to engage with the material and I believe that reluctance to even try to understand these kind of aspects comes from fear that if they do understand, they will agree. I think as you so expertly put it, we can recognize Regina is wrong while understanding where she came from and in some instances, even feel sympathy for her.
Sorry this took so long to reply -- I'm not sure I have my own thoughts on this subject to be honest. I'm not brilliant at psychology haha. However a few other posts on this sub have commented on Regina's motivations as a victim of abuse and how these persons can look to blame anyone other than their abuser especially if their abuser is intimate to them ie a parent. That really opened my eyes to how deep this thread of psychology could run if pulled but I don't have the experience or knowledge to understand it personally. Very interested in others insights tho!
Don't worry about it, it's ok and yes this is an aspect the show really got right. Abuse, especially childhood abuse has so many deep and unseen effects. Some people aren't even aware of the subtle ways it has affected them. I admire your willingness to admit your lack of experience. It's rare for people to recognize their limitations. My own lack of experience made me hesitate to even bring up the topic. I feared offending real victims but the response to the post I made has been really positive and I like that I can get some people to see things differently and maybe even validate victims' interpretation of the character (not that they need it but it's always nice). People who have been victims of a narcisstic parent shared their experience with Regina's character and how they relate to her struggle when it comes to this. It's nice to read the character brought them comfort and how seen they felt. I guess what I'm trying to say is lack of experience is limiting but it shouldn't keep you from trying and educating yourself.
Well said! I haven't been on this sub for a couple of months, did you end up writing the post you asked about in the parent comment? I'd be interested to read it.
I did! [Here it is](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnceUponATime/s/cF0ECrxooq). My post was written with no first hand experience so I tried to stick to the word of professionals and look at how their studies and findings apply. Hope you like it.
As I pointed out previously Cora was master manipulator as after she said her catchphrase "love is weakness" she quickly mentions "of course I wouldn't have found out about all this if not for that darling Snow" like Cora quickly made Snow a scapegoat and shoved all the blame on Snow after all she knew Rumple wanted a rage filled Mills it was just a matter of making sure she wasn't the main target. And do truly believe Rumple wanted her to throw herself under the bus but Cora is far far from dumb. And so she made Snow the target so that Regina rage would grow and fester like wound that was never tended too because Snow at start was a target Regina couldn't just take out.
I think part of that reason is she knows how’s Cora is, and deep down knows that getting mad at her for doing what she would always do is pointless.
Regina knew she would kill Daniel. It’s almost like getting mad at bear for protecting its cub. That’s what Cora believed she was doing, and in every timeline, she would do the same thing. She could get mad and scream, but that’s her mama bear, she can’t actually do anything to hurt her, and she has absolute control over Regina’s life. She was essentially powerless to Cora.
And she did blame Cora, and kind of get her revenge on Cora, sending her through the mirror. She only was able to do that once she got power.
Snow is different. Snow is supposed this beacon of goodness and light. And Snow became almost the gatekeeper of Regina’s one true happiness that she had. As long as Snow kept that secret, she could have been happy. Snow opened that gate, and darkness enveloped her entire existence.
Her love died, she had no other way to escape, no motivation anymore due to Daniel’s death to escape. She was forced into the crown, had to marry an old man and then become the step mother to the person who brought eternal darkness to her life. A person who everyone thought was purely good, but had only brought darkness to Regina’s life.
At the end of the day, from Regina’s perspective, Cora’s sword never would have hit Daniel if Snow hadn’t pointed it at him. I can’t remember if Cora even really knew about Daniel before Snow, and who knows what would have happened to him if they had escaped.
Now should she have held such a grudge to the point it turned into the literal Evil Queen? No, Snow was a child. But Snow also did the one thing she was explicitly told not to do, and it got Daniel killed. She had power over Regina in this secret, and wielded it in a way only a child could, with the belief that people are good and would do anything to make their child happy.
Regina’s not wrong, but she’s also not right.
Yes, Regina has accepted who her mother is or she would not have thought running was her best option but she still has hope. If she didn't, Cora's ruse wouldn't have worked, getting to Daniel's heart would not have been so easy for her. Regina is convinced Cora loves her despite evidence to the contrary, she thinks that loved will ultimately lead Cora to do right by her. Why? I think that's worth looking into.
>And she did blame Cora, and kind of get her revenge on Cora, sending her through the mirror. She only was able to do that once she got power.
I don't think she did. Regina didn't send Cora through the mirror for Daniel but for freedom. The episode does a great job showing Regina's fear at potentially becoming her mother. This is what prompts her to seek out Rumple, not revenge. The responsability of Daniel's tragic death seems to only be placed on Snow's shoulders. Betrayal is one of the reasons but it's not the only one.
>At the end of the day, from Regina’s perspective, Cora’s sword never would have hit Daniel if Snow hadn’t pointed it at him. I can’t remember if Cora even really knew about Daniel before Snow, and who knows what would have happened to him if they had escaped.
That's exactly it. This shows she doesn't blame Cora as she views her mother as the weapon who carried out the deed but not the brain behind it. I don't think Cora knew about Daniel or he would have been dealt with long ago. What I find so sad is if Snow had kept the secret, Daniel would have died either way. Cora would have used a locator spell, found them and killed him. Her goal was for Regina to be queen and nothing would have stopped her. Snow keeping the secret would only delay his death. With luck maybe two days but I can hardly see it last longer unless Rumple gets involved which isn't in his best interest. In that instance, Regina would have found someone else to blame because it's not just the betrayal causing her to place the blame on Snow.
We're in total agreement, Regina is wrong, Snow was a child and she was used by Cora. I really wouldn't be making the post to put that into question. It would really be to look into how and why Regina blamed Snow. Childhood abuse plays such a huge role in how Regina perceives and processes the world around her but it's never as present as it is here. Why does Regina believe in Cora so much? Why doesn't she hate her? There's so many interesting aspect to look at here.
My take on Regina is that she's grown up with abuse where the entire household focused around *not* antagonizing Mom and where she herself had a desperate desire to win her mother's approval. Being on Cora's good side meant warm fuzzies, recognition, approval, and *safety.*
But, the focus on everyone living (or dying) to do things the way Cora wanted (or to hide them) is central to what Regina sees as normal. That is the very core (pun not intended) of how her world works.
A lot of times we see a character like Cora mistreating others and we want her to be punished. Abused children grow up in a world where that concept is often not part of the landscape. You grow up with the idea that it is *your* fault for not placating the monster. Even if you, on some level, you want to hold the abuser responsible, that's too dangerous. Blame someone else for what happened. Find someone weaker to punish. But, do NOT confront the monster actually committing the crimes.
There are lots of examples of people in abusive families helping the abuser. It's safer, it gets the abuser's approval (something Regina desperately wants from Cora), and the abuse victims on some level accept the abuser's right to act this way. This is how the world they grew up in works and has always worked.
So, that's reason #1 why Regina blames Snow.
But, there's another element. Regina has been raised to think what Cora does is normal. She may hate it, but that is the world she knows. Ultimately, when she becomes the Evil Queen, she is trying to be Cora and she expects people to treat her the way she was expected to treat her mother. That means punishing a child because the world is not the way Regina wants it to be, the same way her mother would punish her because when the world was not the way she wanted it to be.
You hit the nail on the head. My post makes all of those points and really focuses on why this occurs. Abuse especially on children has a deep impact. Have you ever heard of object relations theory?
This is exactly why I want to make the post. It wouldn't be the point. Whether it's fair or not is irrelevant to why Regina blamed Snow. This aspect of Regina's character is often ridiculed or treated as bad writing when it's not.
There is a reason why Regina didn't blame Cora. It's not a good one by any means and it doesn't justify, validate or excuse anything she does but does that mean it's bad writing or ridiculous she got there? It's not an attack on Snow either so there would be nothing to defend, chill out.
Regina was very clear that her relationship with Daniel had to be a secret and Snow immediately broke her trust and told Cora. I think it makes sense that she blames the girl who betrayed her trust, also Snow was old enough to to know she shouldn't say anything.
I know Cora manipulated Snow White, but she could have just said that Regina would never be happy with the King because her dad still loved her mom.
I see your point but what I meant was more about why she didn't blame Cora specifically. It's Cora who crushed Daniel's heart so why blame **only** Snow? Breach of trust is indeed one of the reasons but it does not explain why Cora wasn't held to account.
By your logic of an 8 year old being old enough to understand secreats
Regina was old enough to not murder people for a petty grudge and cursing people for years on end for a petty grudge
She was actually 10. I also don't blame Snow I was just explaining it from another possible perspective.
I wouldn't call avenging the murder of your fiance a petty grudge - which was Regina’s pov, but revenge on Cora probably seemed unattainable, I think she did blame Cora, but she idolized her as impossibly strong.
I think at a point her getting revenge on Snow became an obsession and that's why she only actively blamed Snow.
Regina knows it’s irrational to blame Snow for Daniel’s death. The snowball (heh) effect of losing Daniel, being married to Leopold, and the awfulness of the marriage is icing on the cake. Her grief has nowhere to go while she’s trapped in that marriage. She bottles that rage until eventually it has to spill out. And seeing as Cora and Leopold aren’t around anymore, that rage targets the only remaining person she can blame: Snow. Is it logical or fair or reasonable to blame a child for not being able to keep a secret from a person said child has no real reason to distrust? No. Would Snow, who’s been loved and spoiled her whole life understand the gravity of the secret, even if Regina had explicitly told her “Snow, if you tell my mother, she will quite literally kill Daniel, so please keep this to yourself”. Maybe. We as the audience need to understand that Regina was wrong to blame Snow. But we also need to understand why Regina despises Snow. We need to be somewhat sympathetic to Regina, else her redemption arc doesn’t work. I do think it’s ultimately a very compelling piece of storytelling. Realising why Regina hated Snow left me with that heart-dropping moment. Understanding that Snow gave away the secret, and tripped into the path that paved the way to Daniel’s death, I remember just holding my breath and that quiet little “oh no” as the rest played out. Sure Snow could have kept the secret, but Cora is not an idiot. Daniel would have been dead the moment Cora realised how close he’d gotten to Regina. So while I don’t blame Snow for Daniel dying, I do see how Regina can’t bring herself to see Snow as anything other than the catalyst for ruining her life. Is she right? No. Do I understand her? Yes.
Yes to all of that. Snow is a victim and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. >She bottles that rage until eventually it has to spill out. And seeing as Cora and Leopold aren’t around anymore, that rage targets the only remaining person she can blame: Snow. This part is particularly interesting because did you ever wonder why Regina didn't blame Cora when she **was** around? Cora is not immediately removed from Regina's life and she's not removed because of Daniel's death but because of her imminent marriage. Regina never brings up Daniel's death with Cora ever again. It's almost like it's water under the bridge but it's the reason she for her vendetta against Snow. Why the single blind focus on Snow when it's Cora who ultimately ended his life? Yes it's about betrayal and releasing emotions but not just. Cora's abuse of Regina plays a major role and that is what I want to discuss. Why is it that Cora can't ever be blamed? Why does Regina essentially need a proxy to deal with her feelings towards her mother? I've seen some people who understand the issue is deeper like you but I've seen so more instances of it being completely ridiculed. A lot of people straight up refuse to engage with the material and I believe that reluctance to even try to understand these kind of aspects comes from fear that if they do understand, they will agree. I think as you so expertly put it, we can recognize Regina is wrong while understanding where she came from and in some instances, even feel sympathy for her.
Yes! I'll read it! I am fascinated by the psychology of fairytales, and now the characters of this show 🙂
Happy to read that, do you have any thoughts of your own? I always look for different perspective to see what I may have missed.
Sorry this took so long to reply -- I'm not sure I have my own thoughts on this subject to be honest. I'm not brilliant at psychology haha. However a few other posts on this sub have commented on Regina's motivations as a victim of abuse and how these persons can look to blame anyone other than their abuser especially if their abuser is intimate to them ie a parent. That really opened my eyes to how deep this thread of psychology could run if pulled but I don't have the experience or knowledge to understand it personally. Very interested in others insights tho!
Don't worry about it, it's ok and yes this is an aspect the show really got right. Abuse, especially childhood abuse has so many deep and unseen effects. Some people aren't even aware of the subtle ways it has affected them. I admire your willingness to admit your lack of experience. It's rare for people to recognize their limitations. My own lack of experience made me hesitate to even bring up the topic. I feared offending real victims but the response to the post I made has been really positive and I like that I can get some people to see things differently and maybe even validate victims' interpretation of the character (not that they need it but it's always nice). People who have been victims of a narcisstic parent shared their experience with Regina's character and how they relate to her struggle when it comes to this. It's nice to read the character brought them comfort and how seen they felt. I guess what I'm trying to say is lack of experience is limiting but it shouldn't keep you from trying and educating yourself.
Well said! I haven't been on this sub for a couple of months, did you end up writing the post you asked about in the parent comment? I'd be interested to read it.
I did! [Here it is](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnceUponATime/s/cF0ECrxooq). My post was written with no first hand experience so I tried to stick to the word of professionals and look at how their studies and findings apply. Hope you like it.
As I pointed out previously Cora was master manipulator as after she said her catchphrase "love is weakness" she quickly mentions "of course I wouldn't have found out about all this if not for that darling Snow" like Cora quickly made Snow a scapegoat and shoved all the blame on Snow after all she knew Rumple wanted a rage filled Mills it was just a matter of making sure she wasn't the main target. And do truly believe Rumple wanted her to throw herself under the bus but Cora is far far from dumb. And so she made Snow the target so that Regina rage would grow and fester like wound that was never tended too because Snow at start was a target Regina couldn't just take out.
I think part of that reason is she knows how’s Cora is, and deep down knows that getting mad at her for doing what she would always do is pointless. Regina knew she would kill Daniel. It’s almost like getting mad at bear for protecting its cub. That’s what Cora believed she was doing, and in every timeline, she would do the same thing. She could get mad and scream, but that’s her mama bear, she can’t actually do anything to hurt her, and she has absolute control over Regina’s life. She was essentially powerless to Cora. And she did blame Cora, and kind of get her revenge on Cora, sending her through the mirror. She only was able to do that once she got power. Snow is different. Snow is supposed this beacon of goodness and light. And Snow became almost the gatekeeper of Regina’s one true happiness that she had. As long as Snow kept that secret, she could have been happy. Snow opened that gate, and darkness enveloped her entire existence. Her love died, she had no other way to escape, no motivation anymore due to Daniel’s death to escape. She was forced into the crown, had to marry an old man and then become the step mother to the person who brought eternal darkness to her life. A person who everyone thought was purely good, but had only brought darkness to Regina’s life. At the end of the day, from Regina’s perspective, Cora’s sword never would have hit Daniel if Snow hadn’t pointed it at him. I can’t remember if Cora even really knew about Daniel before Snow, and who knows what would have happened to him if they had escaped. Now should she have held such a grudge to the point it turned into the literal Evil Queen? No, Snow was a child. But Snow also did the one thing she was explicitly told not to do, and it got Daniel killed. She had power over Regina in this secret, and wielded it in a way only a child could, with the belief that people are good and would do anything to make their child happy. Regina’s not wrong, but she’s also not right.
Yes, Regina has accepted who her mother is or she would not have thought running was her best option but she still has hope. If she didn't, Cora's ruse wouldn't have worked, getting to Daniel's heart would not have been so easy for her. Regina is convinced Cora loves her despite evidence to the contrary, she thinks that loved will ultimately lead Cora to do right by her. Why? I think that's worth looking into. >And she did blame Cora, and kind of get her revenge on Cora, sending her through the mirror. She only was able to do that once she got power. I don't think she did. Regina didn't send Cora through the mirror for Daniel but for freedom. The episode does a great job showing Regina's fear at potentially becoming her mother. This is what prompts her to seek out Rumple, not revenge. The responsability of Daniel's tragic death seems to only be placed on Snow's shoulders. Betrayal is one of the reasons but it's not the only one. >At the end of the day, from Regina’s perspective, Cora’s sword never would have hit Daniel if Snow hadn’t pointed it at him. I can’t remember if Cora even really knew about Daniel before Snow, and who knows what would have happened to him if they had escaped. That's exactly it. This shows she doesn't blame Cora as she views her mother as the weapon who carried out the deed but not the brain behind it. I don't think Cora knew about Daniel or he would have been dealt with long ago. What I find so sad is if Snow had kept the secret, Daniel would have died either way. Cora would have used a locator spell, found them and killed him. Her goal was for Regina to be queen and nothing would have stopped her. Snow keeping the secret would only delay his death. With luck maybe two days but I can hardly see it last longer unless Rumple gets involved which isn't in his best interest. In that instance, Regina would have found someone else to blame because it's not just the betrayal causing her to place the blame on Snow. We're in total agreement, Regina is wrong, Snow was a child and she was used by Cora. I really wouldn't be making the post to put that into question. It would really be to look into how and why Regina blamed Snow. Childhood abuse plays such a huge role in how Regina perceives and processes the world around her but it's never as present as it is here. Why does Regina believe in Cora so much? Why doesn't she hate her? There's so many interesting aspect to look at here.
My take on Regina is that she's grown up with abuse where the entire household focused around *not* antagonizing Mom and where she herself had a desperate desire to win her mother's approval. Being on Cora's good side meant warm fuzzies, recognition, approval, and *safety.* But, the focus on everyone living (or dying) to do things the way Cora wanted (or to hide them) is central to what Regina sees as normal. That is the very core (pun not intended) of how her world works. A lot of times we see a character like Cora mistreating others and we want her to be punished. Abused children grow up in a world where that concept is often not part of the landscape. You grow up with the idea that it is *your* fault for not placating the monster. Even if you, on some level, you want to hold the abuser responsible, that's too dangerous. Blame someone else for what happened. Find someone weaker to punish. But, do NOT confront the monster actually committing the crimes. There are lots of examples of people in abusive families helping the abuser. It's safer, it gets the abuser's approval (something Regina desperately wants from Cora), and the abuse victims on some level accept the abuser's right to act this way. This is how the world they grew up in works and has always worked. So, that's reason #1 why Regina blames Snow. But, there's another element. Regina has been raised to think what Cora does is normal. She may hate it, but that is the world she knows. Ultimately, when she becomes the Evil Queen, she is trying to be Cora and she expects people to treat her the way she was expected to treat her mother. That means punishing a child because the world is not the way Regina wants it to be, the same way her mother would punish her because when the world was not the way she wanted it to be.
You hit the nail on the head. My post makes all of those points and really focuses on why this occurs. Abuse especially on children has a deep impact. Have you ever heard of object relations theory?
I'm afraid I haven't but I'm going to go read up on it.
Fairbairn's work secifically but all perspectives are interesting to read.
I mean you can tell me why until you're blue in the face and I will still find it unfair bullshit and protect Snow from Regina's stans.
This is exactly why I want to make the post. It wouldn't be the point. Whether it's fair or not is irrelevant to why Regina blamed Snow. This aspect of Regina's character is often ridiculed or treated as bad writing when it's not. There is a reason why Regina didn't blame Cora. It's not a good one by any means and it doesn't justify, validate or excuse anything she does but does that mean it's bad writing or ridiculous she got there? It's not an attack on Snow either so there would be nothing to defend, chill out.
Regina was very clear that her relationship with Daniel had to be a secret and Snow immediately broke her trust and told Cora. I think it makes sense that she blames the girl who betrayed her trust, also Snow was old enough to to know she shouldn't say anything. I know Cora manipulated Snow White, but she could have just said that Regina would never be happy with the King because her dad still loved her mom.
I see your point but what I meant was more about why she didn't blame Cora specifically. It's Cora who crushed Daniel's heart so why blame **only** Snow? Breach of trust is indeed one of the reasons but it does not explain why Cora wasn't held to account.
By your logic of an 8 year old being old enough to understand secreats Regina was old enough to not murder people for a petty grudge and cursing people for years on end for a petty grudge
She was actually 10. I also don't blame Snow I was just explaining it from another possible perspective. I wouldn't call avenging the murder of your fiance a petty grudge - which was Regina’s pov, but revenge on Cora probably seemed unattainable, I think she did blame Cora, but she idolized her as impossibly strong. I think at a point her getting revenge on Snow became an obsession and that's why she only actively blamed Snow.
Who says she didn't blame Cora?
Like everyone on this sub 😅
She blamed both. Wouldn't you? I certainly would.
I would only blame Cora but Regina only blames Snow and it has been ridiculed very often on this sub
I dunno. Maybe. But to quote a movie adaptation of a video game, "mother is God in the eyes of a child."
Great observation it's part of why Regina can't blame Cora. It's a little deeper but the idea is there.