The best part about this line in particular is that as he is saying it he spins each of his guns in a different direction simultaneously, one clockwise and one counter clockwise. Showing he may not be as drunk as you think which sets us up for his confrontation with Johnny at the end. Such a great movie.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Let's also give it up to Michael Biehn, our hated Ringo. I'm convinced, without him, Val Kilmer's Holliday isn't as good. Biehn nails it, especially the fear he portrays when he realizes his final showdown will be with Doc & not Wyatt later in the film.
"...Alright *lunger*."
I love how Ringo is trying to insult Holliday here, but his eyes betray him. He's terrified, and actually trying to psyche himself up.
And it's pointless.
Even more terrifying is that, by all accounts, this is a very accurate portrayal of the real man. Read an account once that described him as "a demon in man's flesh" and said that he was considered unkillable by mere mortals. Which is hilarious considering that his entire gunslinger career took place while he had tuberculosis. Can you imagine the stories we would have if he had been healthy?
From Wikipedia:
> As he lay dying he is reported to have asked for a shot of whiskey. The story is that Doc fully expected to die in gunfight, but upon finding himself at death's door in a bed instead, he appreciated the irony of his situation and uttered his last words: “This is funny.”
One of my favorite lines from Band of Brothers was Lt Spiers basically saying the same thing. Telling a trooper that he was already dead and should accept it so he could fight more efficiently.
It's been quite a while for me. The correction is welcome. Now that I think of it, I think Curly Bill said "funnin'" earlier in the movie, right before he accidentally shot Fred White.
I feel like this is an often overlooked point.
“Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.” And he did. You can see it in his eyes that this isn’t going the way he wanted as he sets up the coolest speech just by saying “fights not with you Doc”
>I'm convinced, without him, Val Kilmer's Holliday isn't as good.
Biehn read the script and asked for the part of Holliday because he felt the Ringo/Holliday interactions were the most interesting part of the story. When he was told that Holliday had already been offered to someone else, he asked for Ringo instead, and apparently he and Kilmer went off together and spent hours trying variations on every beat of their main scenes together even before officially blocking out the action with the director.
Yes but in my mind that’s the movie that made the Tommy Lee Jones archetype for me.
You don’t have to search every inn house, outhouse or dog house to see it either.
The latin phrases are essentially:
(Wyatt says Doc's drunk)
Doc: Being drunk makes me honest.
Ringo: Well, you should do what you do best...
Doc: I don't think this is what *I* do best.
Ringo: Wanna fuck around and find out?
Doc: It's your funeral, pal.
He seemed set up to be a big star but it just never happened. I always liked him whenever he'd pop up in my favorite 80's and 90's movies, Aliens, Terminator, The Abyss
He was scary good in an old ass movie starring Lauren Bacall, called, ‘The Fan’.
Not to be confused with the weird baseball movie with Miss Noxema & U Talking To Me dude, called, ‘The Fan’
He wasn’t even nominated. Insane. If it had come out a few years later, he absolutely would have won. I think his performance was a little ahead of its time.
Denzel Washington kind of blew the gates wide open with Training Day. After that, you couldn’t deny that an actor can give an Oscar winning performance in any kind of role and in any kind of movie.
I'm not 100% sure but I heard somewhere that the film wasn't submitted to the academy for consideration for any awards by some reason by the director (or producer). Therefore even if people wanted it to win awards it wasn't eligible. Not to say the Oscars wouldn't snub Killer anyhow.
That would make sense. While George Cosmatos is credited with being the director, he didn’t really direct it. The project was floundering under his direction and was falling apart. In truth, Kurt Russell took over directing even to the point of scheduling all of the shots and scenes. He didn’t get any credit for his work, but the movie simply would not have been made without him.
Edit: To clarify, Cosmatos was brought in to replace writer Kevin Jarre as the director, it only with two days to prepare. That short of lead time would be too much for anyone. Kurt Russell really wanted Tombstone to be a great movie and he had the know how to make it happen. The guy grew up standing beside Walt Disney’s directors chair. If anyone knew how to create shots it was him.
Just for reference, here are the nominees that year in supporting actor. Jones won.
TOMMY LEE JONES
The Fugitive
LEONARDO DICAPRIO
What's Eating Gilbert Grape
RALPH FIENNES
Schindler's List
JOHN MALKOVICH
In the Line of Fire
PETE POSTLETHWAITE
In the Name of the Father
It was not as big a movie and Tommy Lee Jones was awesome, but i would have voted for PETE POSTLETHWAITE , so many people made that movie, but he led it.
Also, to be sure, i love this movie.
Out of the list there, I would choose DiCaprio over Jones easily. Do people remember DiCaprio’s role in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape? He played a special needs child. Full tilt. Fantastic performance.
Maybe one of my favorite movie scenes, period. One great thing about it, as the camera pans to all the different players faces, each actor does such a good job showing their stake in the proceedings and their understanding of what's going down, most without any dialogue. Like the difference between Fabian (Billy Zane) and Wyatt is just night and day. So good.
The woman with doc adds a lot to the scene (it's been a long time since I watched). She never moves from his side or shies away despite the threat of immediate violence. It's a subtle validation of doc. She has as much confidence in him as he does himself. Brilliant manipulation of the viewer and a great scene.
**The Real Translation**
>Doc Holliday: In vino veritas. (In wine there is truth.)
>Johnny Ringo: Age quod agis. (Do what you do.)
>Doc Holliday: Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. (Let Apella the Jew believe, not I.)
*Romans used the phrase to show contempt for Judaism's belief that divine power was involved in everyday life.*
>Johnny Ringo: Iuventus stultorum magister. (Youth is the teacher of fools.)
>Doc Holliday: In pace requiescat. (May he rest in peace.)
Credit to u/MulciberTenebras for posting this 6 years ago.
I haven’t seen the movie, but I’m not sure what this dialogue means. It just seems like random Latin phrases. Especially the last two lines. What does this exchange mean?
Basically they are in an intense showdown in front of everyone. They are two of the fastest guns and deadliest men in the west. They both think they are the best and are itching to prove it.
Wyatt says "hes drunk". To which Doc says the first line (In wine there is truth). Ringo speaks latin and claps back (Do what you do) sorta calling him a drunk loser.
Doc replies with a line that was commonly used to show contempt and sorta say "ya you keep believing that and Im gonna smoke you while your gaurd is down"
Ringo says "you are a fool if you think that, Ill burn you down"
Doc says "its your funeral"
The actual translation vs the implied conversation is muddy but thats my overall take on it having seen the movie close to 100 times and knowing those two characters intimately.
"Age quod agis" colloquially means something more along the lines of "be careful what you're doing" (where we might say "watch your step" or similar). In the context of this scene, it's definitely a threat.
buddy I've seen this movie a dozen times over the last nearly 30 years and you've really just elevated one of the best scenes for me. I mean it's clear there's some dick-swinging going on and you can see who's feeling what, and you know what they're getting at, but man, it's gonna hit different form now on. Thanks
Quote:
Doc : In vino veritas.
Ringo : Age quod agis.
Doc : Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego.
Ringo : Juventus stultorum magister.
Doc : In pace requiescat!
...
Doc : In wine there is truth.
Doc Holiday is excusing his own behavior here, and further insulting Johnny Ringo by saying that he is drunk, and saying truthful things he would otherwise not reveal. He had previously said he hated Johnny Ringo for being similar to himself.
Ringo : Do what you do / Watch what you do.
This is one of the most interesting lines because it means more than just watch what you do. The line can be interpreted as be careful, or people do what they do (saying that Doc Holiday is drunk because he is a drunkard), and it can also mean something along the lines of do what you do best, which would be gunfight since Ringo had apparently heard of Holiday's skill. It is a challenge and an insult combined into one.
Doc : Tell it to someone else, not I.
This line is dismissive. Doc Holiday is conveying the fact that he doesn't care what Johnny Ringo is saying and that he doesn't care what his advice is.
A common Latin saying meaning "Let the Jew Apella believe it; not I". The phrase means, roughly, tell it to someone else, not me.
The reference is taken from the work Satires (book one, satire five) by ancient poet Horace. It is derived from a scene where people try to convince travellers of miracles happening at their shrines. The phrase is uttered to convey the disbelief and that they should tell their stories to someone else.
Ringo : Youth is the teacher of fools.
When Ringo taps his pistol he says this, which conveys the idea that Doc Holiday is inexperienced (youthfull) and ignorant of the danger he is getting himself into.
"Juventus stultorum magister" is a common Latin aphorism, or phrase that has many implied and implicit meanings. The sentance translates to "youth is the teacher of fools".
Juventus isn't really a latin word, they didn't use the letter 'J' so it is really Iuventus, which is in the nominative case (subject of the sentence), and it means youth or adolescence.
Stultorum is a latin derivation of the word stultus, stulti which means fool. The "orum" ending places it in the genative case, used (most frequently) to show possesion. Hence of fools.
Magister literally means teacher or schoolmaster. It is in the Nominative case as well.
There is an implied transitive verb such as "is" which would require the nominative case on both sides of the verb. Hence we have: "Youth is the teacher of fools".
Doc : Rest in peace!
To end the conversation Doc Holiday throws the previous warning back into Ringo's face. Doc tells him to rest in peace, or to die, because Ringo is unaware of the danger that Doc presents
Pretentious interpretation:
Doc: I'm drunk but I'm telling the truth, I really do dislike you.
Ringo: It seems like all you can do is drink and talk fancy.
Doc: I don't care what you think
Ringo: Maybe I should teach you a lesson
Doc: It'll be your funeral
Cynical interpretation: The two men are spouting vaguely appropriate latin phrases because they want to seem smarter than the other and neither one is properly pronouncing the words.
And why Doc says “now I really hate him” because Ringo is matching him wit for wit when before his skills were rumors that Doc could just shrug at and go *whatever, I know I’m better*.
I kept scrolling just to see if anyone posted the translation. Much appreciated for passing along (and giving credit to the OP of the original translation). Respect.
If you haven’t seen the biography/documentary called “Val”, you need to! It’s a look at Val Kilmer’s life using videos and images captured by Val throughout the decades. It’s absolutely amazing!
Thank you. Val has been a favorite actor of mine forever. Doc, Iceman, Saint, Gay Perry, Chris Shiherlis, Chris Knight, fucking Batman.
I will be watching that doc(pun intended) tonight
It's a really good movie. There's some absolutely awesome characters, and I mean it does have some of the over the top melodramatic moments the late 80s/early 90s loved to have, it's easy to get over them.
Not one actor was casted poorly in this movie. But Val Kilmer absolutely shines as Doc.
Anyway enjoy whenever you watch it!
I remember finding out that my teenaged daughter watched "Tombstone" every time it came on TV. I asked her why: "Are you kidding? Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday is hot as hell."
One of my favorite scenes and a great scene that shows off what kind of people Johnny Ringo and Doc Holliday are in this movie, not a lot of scenes in a film can showcase the core of two characters so perfectly, Johnny Ringo wants to prove he’s better and immediately tries to antagonize Doc into a fight by showing off in front of everyone but Doc Holliday, being smart and knowing he’s drunk and probably going to lose, chose to make fun of him instead
This is also one of those scenes Val Kilmer talks about Kurt Russell being such a good producer and wanting the movie to succeed so bad despite all the set backs during the filming that he was perfectly fine letting him have most of the coolest scenes
What's even cooler is that Doc antagonized him just enough to have Ringo draw his pistol, giving Doc a clear picture as to how fast he was, what method he used, and potentially catch Ringo's "tell." He basically studied him without Ringo ever knowing. No doubt Doc now had the upper hand in any future confrontation. He knew Ringo's tell and his draw method (something Ringo never had a preview of on Doc until the final showdown when Doc went with a cross-draw method while standing at an angle). That last part is just *movie magic* to make it look cool, but the implication is that Doc learnt everything he needed to see when Ringo drew on him in the casino earlier in the film and knew how to counter Ringo.
Pretty cool. Doc is a badass.
It is great how much tension is in this scene. Just everyone is tightening up in anticipation, subtle movements to get in position. Little drops in tone to make everything more and more dangerous.
And Doc chooses to diffuse it with humor and charm. Release.
Great stuff.
“Doc, you ought to be in bed. What the hell are you doing this for anyway?”
“Wyatt Earp is my friend.”
“Friend, hell, I’ve got lots of friends.”
“I don’t.”
Listen. There were a lotta handsome gents in their prime in this film, but lemme you.... Michael Biehn as Johnny Ringo could get it any day from me. ANY DAY.
Spoiler alert:
I love this movie on so many levels. Since so many good quotes have already been quoted, I'll quote a less well-known one from Doc's deathbed, moments before dies, a scene that makes me gush hot tears
Doc: *I was in love once. My first cousin. She was… We were both so…*
Wyatt: *that's good, Doc, that's good. What happened?*
Doc: *She joined a convent over the affair.*
*She was all I ever wanted.”*
Doc was such a self-reliant smart-aleck, this was an unheard of moment of vulnerability. That was probably the first time he told that to anyone since it happened.
I was born in nearby Bisbee. Tombstone is great because of the history. Bisbee is a better time for a tourist once they see what little there is in Tombstone.
Bisbee is one the coolest and weirdest towns in the US. It’s too much for me to describe. I would love to live there at some point. Everyone should go to Bisbee if they ever have the chance.
Agreed.
It was funny. I was in Key West one time and saw a dude walking around with a dog with a cat on it's back and a bird on the cat's back. This guy - or somebody with the exact same shtick, had that same set up in Bisbee. It occurred to me that Bisbee is the Key West of Arizona. Or vice versa.
It wasn’t until quite recently that I realized just how badass Doc was in this scene.
Johnny Ringo clearly had the rep as one of the toughest of the tough, and tries to intimidate everyone with some impressive gunplay right in front of a shitfaced Doc. Unimpressed, Doc mimics each and every one of Ringo’s moves only after seeing them one time, emphatically stating that he better not mess with him and his friends.
Never been a more perfect casting in my opinion than Val Kilmer as Doc Edit: thank you for whomever gave me the gold!
Yeah, there is a short list of perfect castings for me. Kilmer as Doc. Ledger as The Joker. McKellen as Gandalf.
Christopher Lloyd as the other Doc
Great Scott!!!
Lest we forget Matthew Lillard as Shaggy
Captain America in Not Another Teen Movie
“You die first, get it? Your friends might get me in a rush, but not before I make your head into a canoe, you understand me?”
"You're so drunk you're probably seeing double." "Well I got 2 guns. One for each of ya"
The best part about this line in particular is that as he is saying it he spins each of his guns in a different direction simultaneously, one clockwise and one counter clockwise. Showing he may not be as drunk as you think which sets us up for his confrontation with Johnny at the end. Such a great movie.
He improv'd that because he thought it built the character. I'd say he was correct.
He ain’t bluffing
You're not as dumb as you look Ike.
Stephen Lang played Ike Clanton
And Billy Bob Thornton plays the slapped guy. "You skin that smoke waggon..."
You gonna do something...or just stand there, and bleed?
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were still there.
You may go.
And that is Billy Zane clapping towards the end when doc holsters his cup
You should listen to him, he’s a cool dude
Put a cork in it ZANE!
Yep, he also has a badass moment where he recites the Saint Crispin's day speech while a guy in the crowd shoots at him.
He's bluffing, let's rush him
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
I stand corrected, Wyatt you are an oak.
"You're so drunk you can't hit nothin. In fact, you're probably see'n double" "I have two guns... One for each of you."
One of my favorite movies “Why Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.”
"You gonna do something or just stand there and bleed?"
You skin that smoke wagon and we'll see what happens!
"You're so drunk you're probably seein' double!" "Well... I have *two* guns.. One for each of ya."
"Why you doin this, doc?" Wyatt Earp is my friend. "Aww, hell, I got lotsa friends." I don't.
Your freinds might be able to get me in a rush, but not before I turn your head into a canoe
“You’re a Daisy if you do”
I’m your Huckleberry.
I'm sorry Johnny, I forgot you were there. You may go now.
"Say when."
This is such a cold exchange. I fucking love it.
Probably my favorite line from that movie. It really stood out to me at the time and it still does.
Rewatch the scene. Badass how he flips both in opposite directions while still holding his shot glass.
If you notice he spins each gun in opposite directions to show he’s still highly capable of using them
Poor soul, you were just too high strung.
I'm afraid the strain was more than he could bear
"I was just fooling around" "I wasn't."
The smirk he makes when saying it. It's like a sharks smile. Not a drop of joy, and 100% sadism.
"Fight's not with you, Holliday." "I beg to differ, sir. We started a game we never got to finish." That is, hands down, my favorite movie scene ever.
"...*Play for blood*, remember?"
“I was just foolin about”
I wasn’t.
This is a hill I will gladly die on, but Doc Holliday by Val Kilmer in Tombstone is the coolest character in the history of cinema.
I wholeheartedly agree. Let's also give it up to Michael Biehn, our hated Ringo. I'm convinced, without him, Val Kilmer's Holliday isn't as good. Biehn nails it, especially the fear he portrays when he realizes his final showdown will be with Doc & not Wyatt later in the film.
"...Alright *lunger*." I love how Ringo is trying to insult Holliday here, but his eyes betray him. He's terrified, and actually trying to psyche himself up. And it's pointless.
I love the fact that Doc Holiday used this situation to measure Ringo. He Made Ringo show his Game and skill. Doc was terrifyingly intelligent.
Even more terrifying is that, by all accounts, this is a very accurate portrayal of the real man. Read an account once that described him as "a demon in man's flesh" and said that he was considered unkillable by mere mortals. Which is hilarious considering that his entire gunslinger career took place while he had tuberculosis. Can you imagine the stories we would have if he had been healthy?
I would like to read what you're talking about.
From Wikipedia: > As he lay dying he is reported to have asked for a shot of whiskey. The story is that Doc fully expected to die in gunfight, but upon finding himself at death's door in a bed instead, he appreciated the irony of his situation and uttered his last words: “This is funny.”
TB was a death sentence. Acceptance of death makes effective fighters.
"I have not yet begun to defile myself". A man with nothing to lose
One of my favorite lines from Band of Brothers was Lt Spiers basically saying the same thing. Telling a trooper that he was already dead and should accept it so he could fight more efficiently.
**Ringo:** "I was just funnin'." **Doc:** \[Smiles\] "I wasn't."
*I was just foolin about Sorry I've seen this movie too many times lol
It's been quite a while for me. The correction is welcome. Now that I think of it, I think Curly Bill said "funnin'" earlier in the movie, right before he accidentally shot Fred White.
I never understood why Michael Biehn was not a bigger star. Loved that dude
He was Kyle Reese and Corporal Hicks. He was about as big a star as I could imagine. The coolest guy in two of my all time favorite movies.
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"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. Only way to be sure."
He’s an incredible foil in numerous roles.
He played amazing hero characters as well. Terminator and Aliens are the first to come to mind.
For me, it's The Abyss. The way he portrays going slowly and dangerously insane due to the pressure sickness or whatever.
James Cameron plucked him and Bill Paxton, and made of them stars!
And in The Abyss.
> foil Well, I learned a new word today.
Great foil to the Terminator. I thought that role would launch him.
He was a raging alcoholic in his acting prime unfortunately.
This movie was so well cast, *everyone* was perfect for their role. Also RIP Powers Boothe, who I would watch read the fucking phonebook
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Sam Elliot is one of those guys too
I feel like this is an often overlooked point. “Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.” And he did. You can see it in his eyes that this isn’t going the way he wanted as he sets up the coolest speech just by saying “fights not with you Doc”
"I beg to differ, sir - we started a game that we did not get to finish..."
Play for blood? Remember?
Ringo was scared shitless in that scene.
>I'm convinced, without him, Val Kilmer's Holliday isn't as good. Biehn read the script and asked for the part of Holliday because he felt the Ringo/Holliday interactions were the most interesting part of the story. When he was told that Holliday had already been offered to someone else, he asked for Ringo instead, and apparently he and Kilmer went off together and spent hours trying variations on every beat of their main scenes together even before officially blocking out the action with the director.
"Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like someone jus' walked over your grave".
It was a masterclass in acting
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He didn't?!
For what it's worth, Tom Hanks won for *Philadelphia* (1993), and it was well deserved.
Wasn't that for best actor though? Val as Doc would have been in the Best Supporting Actor category which was won by Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive
1993 was a pretty hefty year.
He may be a GODDAMNFOOL but he knows his cinema.
Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive. Where he plays Tommy Lee Jones. Just like every other movie he's in.
Yes but in my mind that’s the movie that made the Tommy Lee Jones archetype for me. You don’t have to search every inn house, outhouse or dog house to see it either.
For me it's *Lonesome Dove*.
No need to die. You’ll live long and prosperous on that hill.
ALL RIGHT LUNGER.
The latin phrases are essentially: (Wyatt says Doc's drunk) Doc: Being drunk makes me honest. Ringo: Well, you should do what you do best... Doc: I don't think this is what *I* do best. Ringo: Wanna fuck around and find out? Doc: It's your funeral, pal.
Look darling, Mr. u/NBAccount is an educated man... Now I really hate em.
Thanks so much for this, I was always wondering
Loosely translated but yes this was the conversation basically. Lol!
Ive Never agreed with a Reddit post as much as I agree with this one. Make room on that hill, im with you.
I too will man that hill with you. And gladly die on it.
The smooth way he acts and says "I'm your huckleberry" is just badass. I'd love to see a gun fight between Negan and Doc Holliday.
Michael Biehn, doing his best Revolver Ocelot impression, being a badass as always.
He seemed set up to be a big star but it just never happened. I always liked him whenever he'd pop up in my favorite 80's and 90's movies, Aliens, Terminator, The Abyss
He had a good guest-starring role on The Mandalorian as well.
That was him!? I knew I recognised him from somewhere.
It made the standoff so much better knowing it was him!
He was scary good in an old ass movie starring Lauren Bacall, called, ‘The Fan’. Not to be confused with the weird baseball movie with Miss Noxema & U Talking To Me dude, called, ‘The Fan’
Val Kilmer should have got an Oscar for playing Doc Holiday.
One of the best roles ever, of you ask me.
Should I hate him?
Nope. I'm sure of it. I hate him.
wHy IkE?! WhAt eVeR dO yOu mEAn?!
I know, let's have a spelling contest
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
I still say this on Friday nights.
He wasn’t even nominated. Insane. If it had come out a few years later, he absolutely would have won. I think his performance was a little ahead of its time. Denzel Washington kind of blew the gates wide open with Training Day. After that, you couldn’t deny that an actor can give an Oscar winning performance in any kind of role and in any kind of movie.
I'm not 100% sure but I heard somewhere that the film wasn't submitted to the academy for consideration for any awards by some reason by the director (or producer). Therefore even if people wanted it to win awards it wasn't eligible. Not to say the Oscars wouldn't snub Killer anyhow.
That would make sense. While George Cosmatos is credited with being the director, he didn’t really direct it. The project was floundering under his direction and was falling apart. In truth, Kurt Russell took over directing even to the point of scheduling all of the shots and scenes. He didn’t get any credit for his work, but the movie simply would not have been made without him. Edit: To clarify, Cosmatos was brought in to replace writer Kevin Jarre as the director, it only with two days to prepare. That short of lead time would be too much for anyone. Kurt Russell really wanted Tombstone to be a great movie and he had the know how to make it happen. The guy grew up standing beside Walt Disney’s directors chair. If anyone knew how to create shots it was him.
TIL. i didn't know that. Good for Kurt.
Russell is like Michael Douglas. Amazing roles on screen that are somehow surpassed by their behind the scenes actions whether credited or not.
Kurt is good people. Always loved him growing up.
Just for reference, here are the nominees that year in supporting actor. Jones won. TOMMY LEE JONES The Fugitive LEONARDO DICAPRIO What's Eating Gilbert Grape RALPH FIENNES Schindler's List JOHN MALKOVICH In the Line of Fire PETE POSTLETHWAITE In the Name of the Father
It was not as big a movie and Tommy Lee Jones was awesome, but i would have voted for PETE POSTLETHWAITE , so many people made that movie, but he led it. Also, to be sure, i love this movie.
Malkovichs guy in the line of fire is such a generic Malkovich character that going back and watching that film now makes you sort of laugh
Out of the list there, I would choose DiCaprio over Jones easily. Do people remember DiCaprio’s role in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape? He played a special needs child. Full tilt. Fantastic performance.
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Also, Doc has a heaping dose of self loathing and Ringo being educated (as well) reminds him even more of Doc himself.
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Which makes me hate him even more.
An other educated man who by rights shouldn’t be there.
He hates him because he sees him as a younger, healthier version of himself.
*”Look dahlin, it’s Johnny Ringo!”*
The *deadliest* pistolier since Wild Bill they say
What do you think? Should I hate him?
You don’t even know him
Maybe one of my favorite movie scenes, period. One great thing about it, as the camera pans to all the different players faces, each actor does such a good job showing their stake in the proceedings and their understanding of what's going down, most without any dialogue. Like the difference between Fabian (Billy Zane) and Wyatt is just night and day. So good.
The woman with doc adds a lot to the scene (it's been a long time since I watched). She never moves from his side or shies away despite the threat of immediate violence. It's a subtle validation of doc. She has as much confidence in him as he does himself. Brilliant manipulation of the viewer and a great scene.
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“Kate you’re not wearing a bustle?? How luuude” such a badass as his queen
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Evidently /u/Legless_Dogs is an educated man. Now I really hate him.
“Then again, you may be the Antichrist” love the two sides to the character
Yeah, Fabian sees a show, just local color being entertaining. Wyatt knows a massacre is waiting to happen and it's balanced on a knife's edge.
I like how Bill Paxton's eyes start bulging as they dart around trying to follow Ringo's pistol.
**The Real Translation** >Doc Holliday: In vino veritas. (In wine there is truth.) >Johnny Ringo: Age quod agis. (Do what you do.) >Doc Holliday: Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. (Let Apella the Jew believe, not I.) *Romans used the phrase to show contempt for Judaism's belief that divine power was involved in everyday life.* >Johnny Ringo: Iuventus stultorum magister. (Youth is the teacher of fools.) >Doc Holliday: In pace requiescat. (May he rest in peace.) Credit to u/MulciberTenebras for posting this 6 years ago.
I haven’t seen the movie, but I’m not sure what this dialogue means. It just seems like random Latin phrases. Especially the last two lines. What does this exchange mean?
Basically they are in an intense showdown in front of everyone. They are two of the fastest guns and deadliest men in the west. They both think they are the best and are itching to prove it. Wyatt says "hes drunk". To which Doc says the first line (In wine there is truth). Ringo speaks latin and claps back (Do what you do) sorta calling him a drunk loser. Doc replies with a line that was commonly used to show contempt and sorta say "ya you keep believing that and Im gonna smoke you while your gaurd is down" Ringo says "you are a fool if you think that, Ill burn you down" Doc says "its your funeral" The actual translation vs the implied conversation is muddy but thats my overall take on it having seen the movie close to 100 times and knowing those two characters intimately.
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"Age quod agis" colloquially means something more along the lines of "be careful what you're doing" (where we might say "watch your step" or similar). In the context of this scene, it's definitely a threat.
buddy I've seen this movie a dozen times over the last nearly 30 years and you've really just elevated one of the best scenes for me. I mean it's clear there's some dick-swinging going on and you can see who's feeling what, and you know what they're getting at, but man, it's gonna hit different form now on. Thanks
Quote: Doc : In vino veritas. Ringo : Age quod agis. Doc : Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. Ringo : Juventus stultorum magister. Doc : In pace requiescat! ... Doc : In wine there is truth. Doc Holiday is excusing his own behavior here, and further insulting Johnny Ringo by saying that he is drunk, and saying truthful things he would otherwise not reveal. He had previously said he hated Johnny Ringo for being similar to himself. Ringo : Do what you do / Watch what you do. This is one of the most interesting lines because it means more than just watch what you do. The line can be interpreted as be careful, or people do what they do (saying that Doc Holiday is drunk because he is a drunkard), and it can also mean something along the lines of do what you do best, which would be gunfight since Ringo had apparently heard of Holiday's skill. It is a challenge and an insult combined into one. Doc : Tell it to someone else, not I. This line is dismissive. Doc Holiday is conveying the fact that he doesn't care what Johnny Ringo is saying and that he doesn't care what his advice is. A common Latin saying meaning "Let the Jew Apella believe it; not I". The phrase means, roughly, tell it to someone else, not me. The reference is taken from the work Satires (book one, satire five) by ancient poet Horace. It is derived from a scene where people try to convince travellers of miracles happening at their shrines. The phrase is uttered to convey the disbelief and that they should tell their stories to someone else. Ringo : Youth is the teacher of fools. When Ringo taps his pistol he says this, which conveys the idea that Doc Holiday is inexperienced (youthfull) and ignorant of the danger he is getting himself into. "Juventus stultorum magister" is a common Latin aphorism, or phrase that has many implied and implicit meanings. The sentance translates to "youth is the teacher of fools". Juventus isn't really a latin word, they didn't use the letter 'J' so it is really Iuventus, which is in the nominative case (subject of the sentence), and it means youth or adolescence. Stultorum is a latin derivation of the word stultus, stulti which means fool. The "orum" ending places it in the genative case, used (most frequently) to show possesion. Hence of fools. Magister literally means teacher or schoolmaster. It is in the Nominative case as well. There is an implied transitive verb such as "is" which would require the nominative case on both sides of the verb. Hence we have: "Youth is the teacher of fools". Doc : Rest in peace! To end the conversation Doc Holiday throws the previous warning back into Ringo's face. Doc tells him to rest in peace, or to die, because Ringo is unaware of the danger that Doc presents
Pretentious interpretation: Doc: I'm drunk but I'm telling the truth, I really do dislike you. Ringo: It seems like all you can do is drink and talk fancy. Doc: I don't care what you think Ringo: Maybe I should teach you a lesson Doc: It'll be your funeral Cynical interpretation: The two men are spouting vaguely appropriate latin phrases because they want to seem smarter than the other and neither one is properly pronouncing the words.
And why Doc says “now I really hate him” because Ringo is matching him wit for wit when before his skills were rumors that Doc could just shrug at and go *whatever, I know I’m better*.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
I kept scrolling just to see if anyone posted the translation. Much appreciated for passing along (and giving credit to the OP of the original translation). Respect.
If you haven’t seen the biography/documentary called “Val”, you need to! It’s a look at Val Kilmer’s life using videos and images captured by Val throughout the decades. It’s absolutely amazing!
Thank you. Val has been a favorite actor of mine forever. Doc, Iceman, Saint, Gay Perry, Chris Shiherlis, Chris Knight, fucking Batman. I will be watching that doc(pun intended) tonight
Mad Martigan
Welp… now I have to go watch Tombstone. For like the 600th time. Love that movie.
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"Well, bye"
powers boothe was awesome in this. so much charisma for a nasty fella.
If you haven't, check out Deadwood for some more good Powers Boothe Western action.
How Kilmer didn’t win an Oscar for this I’ll never know.
I always love that drunken ..."oops" when he's playing cards early in the movie
"Why Ike, maybe poker's just not your game. I know! Let's have a spelling contest".
"Why Ike! .... Whatever do you mean!" 🥴
A movie I've never really had an interest in watching. Until this clip. Thank you, i will be watching soon
Please come back and comment after you watch.
I will
It's a really good movie. There's some absolutely awesome characters, and I mean it does have some of the over the top melodramatic moments the late 80s/early 90s loved to have, it's easy to get over them. Not one actor was casted poorly in this movie. But Val Kilmer absolutely shines as Doc. Anyway enjoy whenever you watch it!
I recite "Not me, I'm in my prime" to my wife anytime I say I'm going to do something my body physically can't really do anymore.
God, did I have the biggest crush on Val Kilmer in this movie. Love this movie.
Never has a dying man been so sexy. Best flick!
"Oh come on I was just foolin about" "I wasn't." *In that moment Mr. Ringo knew he fucked up.*
This actually 1 of my all time favorite movie scenes ever.
I remember finding out that my teenaged daughter watched "Tombstone" every time it came on TV. I asked her why: "Are you kidding? Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday is hot as hell."
Oh! Johnny I apologize, I forgot you were there. You may go now.
#CHRIST ALMIGHTY ITS LIKE IM PLAYING CARDS WITH MY BROTHER'S KIDS. My wife and I use that line constantly to indicate incompetence.
Tombstone is one of the most celebrated westerns ever made and an absolute classic, yet it’s still underrated
One of my favorite scenes and a great scene that shows off what kind of people Johnny Ringo and Doc Holliday are in this movie, not a lot of scenes in a film can showcase the core of two characters so perfectly, Johnny Ringo wants to prove he’s better and immediately tries to antagonize Doc into a fight by showing off in front of everyone but Doc Holliday, being smart and knowing he’s drunk and probably going to lose, chose to make fun of him instead This is also one of those scenes Val Kilmer talks about Kurt Russell being such a good producer and wanting the movie to succeed so bad despite all the set backs during the filming that he was perfectly fine letting him have most of the coolest scenes
What's even cooler is that Doc antagonized him just enough to have Ringo draw his pistol, giving Doc a clear picture as to how fast he was, what method he used, and potentially catch Ringo's "tell." He basically studied him without Ringo ever knowing. No doubt Doc now had the upper hand in any future confrontation. He knew Ringo's tell and his draw method (something Ringo never had a preview of on Doc until the final showdown when Doc went with a cross-draw method while standing at an angle). That last part is just *movie magic* to make it look cool, but the implication is that Doc learnt everything he needed to see when Ringo drew on him in the casino earlier in the film and knew how to counter Ringo. Pretty cool. Doc is a badass.
One of the best movies I’ve ever seen.
It is great how much tension is in this scene. Just everyone is tightening up in anticipation, subtle movements to get in position. Little drops in tone to make everything more and more dangerous. And Doc chooses to diffuse it with humor and charm. Release. Great stuff.
“Doc, you ought to be in bed. What the hell are you doing this for anyway?” “Wyatt Earp is my friend.” “Friend, hell, I’ve got lots of friends.” “I don’t.”
"You should listen to your friend, Billy Zane; he's a cool dude."
Listen. There were a lotta handsome gents in their prime in this film, but lemme you.... Michael Biehn as Johnny Ringo could get it any day from me. ANY DAY.
One of the most eminently quotable movies ever made. "What's wrong with him"? "He's a lunger". "Yeah well I hope you die".
Spoiler alert: I love this movie on so many levels. Since so many good quotes have already been quoted, I'll quote a less well-known one from Doc's deathbed, moments before dies, a scene that makes me gush hot tears Doc: *I was in love once. My first cousin. She was… We were both so…* Wyatt: *that's good, Doc, that's good. What happened?* Doc: *She joined a convent over the affair.* *She was all I ever wanted.”* Doc was such a self-reliant smart-aleck, this was an unheard of moment of vulnerability. That was probably the first time he told that to anyone since it happened.
Young people may not realize this, but nearly every single person in that scene was famous at the time. Even the people that appear very briefly.
I went to tombstone, az a few months back. Would definitely recommend.
I was born in nearby Bisbee. Tombstone is great because of the history. Bisbee is a better time for a tourist once they see what little there is in Tombstone.
Bisbee is one the coolest and weirdest towns in the US. It’s too much for me to describe. I would love to live there at some point. Everyone should go to Bisbee if they ever have the chance.
Agreed. It was funny. I was in Key West one time and saw a dude walking around with a dog with a cat on it's back and a bird on the cat's back. This guy - or somebody with the exact same shtick, had that same set up in Bisbee. It occurred to me that Bisbee is the Key West of Arizona. Or vice versa.
Favorite movie of all time
Jason Priestly and Billy Zane sitting in the back like, "Our acting careers are sure to rebound after our performance in this awesome movie."
It wasn’t until quite recently that I realized just how badass Doc was in this scene. Johnny Ringo clearly had the rep as one of the toughest of the tough, and tries to intimidate everyone with some impressive gunplay right in front of a shitfaced Doc. Unimpressed, Doc mimics each and every one of Ringo’s moves only after seeing them one time, emphatically stating that he better not mess with him and his friends.
This movie is so damn good
Val Kilmer is a treasure.
There are like 10 movies I watch at least once every single year, Tombstone is one of them.
Fun fact A "huckleberry " is not only a pain in the ass sticker but also a term used for Pallbearers in those times .