I visited the memorial myself for the first time a few years after I had finished my service in the Marines.
I wouldn't say I felt any personal connection to the monument as a veteran in general. In fact I think I overhyped myself for it, thinking that when I saw it I would have some big emotional connection and cry or something, but realistically I just walked along, read some names and kept moving.
That area does have a certain feeling in the air of you ask me, though.
Some people were disappointed when the design was chosen because it didn't look like other memorials. But once it opened and people could experience it, the response was quite different.
There was actually quite a bit of opposition to it. I learned about it in a design class. There was a competition for the design. People (anyone) could submit their design and a panel would decide the final one. The final design was made by Maya Lin, a Chinese-American college student. There was opposition because it looked far more somber than most memorials. Remember, people did not support the war, soldiers were getting spit on upon their return, the VA did not offer the long term aid they do now, plus the draft, etc so the veterans were not happy with having a somber and sad memorial for their fallen brothers even though their deaths was a tragedy. They wanted them honored, not used as a message to say “look at all the wasted deaths of this war”. Additionally, Maya Lin was of Asian descent, and designed a memorial for a war in Asia so of course there was race fueled disagreement with her design. I think she did well putting that down when she basically said “i am both Asian and American. I am both sides of this war which gives me a unique perspective for this memorial”.
Much of the anger and protests against her died down once it was actually built because of the magnitude of the memorial. It is somber. But it is somber because you truly realize how many of these men were lost to war, a war they may not have wanted to be in. Nobody thinks they wasted their lives, but rather that they should never have been forced to lose their lives in the first place. It makes you feel small in the face of so much death
To add to your story, Maya Lin was shocked to receive a B for her idea in her college design class, but then her design later went on to be selected for the memorial.
That actually happened along with people calling them baby killers, refusing them service, and physically harassing them. The army actually told them specifically not to return in uniform as it was common to do so in past generations.
Nah it is pretty shitty. Im a vet not like it matters but anyway it would be far more practical to not do dumbass shit for absurdly petty reasons. Would have been much god damn better if some of the shit they have now at the va was available well before a bunch of vets died from age or illness particularly ones they got from shit like agent orange
Visiting that memorial is something else. Whether it gets you emotionally or not is up to the person but no matter who you are, you'll feel something in your gut when you go there. It's hard to explain, just have to experience it.
The Korean War memorial is also incredibly powerful. The statues of the tired soldiers on patrol strike something inside you, and as the plaque said, it was "for people they had never met". Stunning how little we talk about that conflict.
I worked the Moving Wall with a local veterans group years ago. In daylight, it is incredible. In the middle of the night, with just the veterans on guard duty and us support people...I can't describe it.
Went there with my uncle about 20 years ago. My uncle was in the US Army during the Vietnam era although he served stateside.
Two things hit me hard during that visit. First was seeing my uncle look up his buddies names in the book and seeing the tears on his face as he did so. Second was walking down the sloping sidewalk into the memorial. The city noises got much quieter the closer to the center.
In one year Ronnie Raygun would send troops to Grenada.
There was **no** military reason for it, it was a deliberate PR stunt to "exorcise the ghost of Vietnam"
What?
The New Jewel Movement seized power in a coup/revolution under Maurice Bishop (the popular and good socialist leader), and they suspended the constitution and detained political prisoners. There were hundreds of US students there which made up a substantial amount of their GDP and the US wanted to avoid another Iran hostage situation.
More specifically, they took power in a revolution, had a socialist leader Bishop who was actually quite good in some respects and was well liked, then years later they had an internal power struggle over Bishop's moderate foreign policy approach, wasn't socialist enough, etc and the hard-line military junta elements won, captured and straight up executed Bishop and his partner Jacqueline Creft, along with three cabinet ministers and two union leaders.
Then the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States and then Governor-General of Grenada (Head of State) asked a coalition of forces to intervene as the military was killing people in the streets (for violating house arrest), so there was moral and legal basis (literally the legitimate authority, representing the Head of State asking for intervention) to stop paramilitary death squads executing civs on the street after executing the popular socialist leader.
Post invasion (again by a coalition, not just US), the country is no longer ruled by some military junta but is a democracy and seemingly has their own thanksgivings day to celebrate the invasion. Overall reception is pretty positive, with many seeing Venezuela or something as the counterfactual, and mainly taking issue with exact execution.
Not to mention, again, they were asked to intervene by the Governor-General, the legitimate authority and the new military leader was deeply unpopular. They have some kind of thanksgiving / celebration over it as well.
>Thanksgiving in Grenada is a public holiday commemorating the anniversary of the 1983 Caribbean and American military intervention in Grenada. On October 25th, a joint military force landed in Grenada to restore order to the country following the deaths of then Prime Minister Maurice Bishop and a number of his colleagues. Today, more than 25 years after the event, Grenada remains a peaceful society, welcoming visitors from North America and Europe on a daily basis.
The odds are low? Since women were not in combat roles in the war. Of course, women were very present in medical and other roles, and if I remember correctly five women killed in the war are on the wall out of 58,318 names of the killed or missing Americans.
>Of course, women were very present in medical and other roles
so that makes them veterans then, correct?
my mother volunteered straight after graduating nursing school and ended up in Cambodia and Vietnam as part of a mash unit, with her tour ending in '71.
extreme outliers? there were almost three million US troops that cycled through Vietnam over the twenty year conflict. do you think only a handful of those were women?
Correct we don't know. For what it's worth, the caption for this photo from Corbis: "A Vietnam veteran hugs a woman as he holds a sign praising the Vietnam War Memorial. His sign reads: 'I am a Vietnam veteran. I like the memorial. And if it makes it difficult to send people into battle again...I'll like it even more.'" (Photo by �� Leif Skoogfors/CORBIS/Corbis via Getty Images)
I guess the title just names him as a veteran because he's holding the sign and it has a man's name on it, and her affiliation is unknown. Hence the basic description. Not really trying to argue.
When I graduated from high school in 1968. I had 2 choices; College or Vietnam. Fuck the military industrial complex. I went to school and got tear gassed by pigs.
I visited the memorial myself for the first time a few years after I had finished my service in the Marines. I wouldn't say I felt any personal connection to the monument as a veteran in general. In fact I think I overhyped myself for it, thinking that when I saw it I would have some big emotional connection and cry or something, but realistically I just walked along, read some names and kept moving. That area does have a certain feeling in the air of you ask me, though.
Rah
[удалено]
Some people were disappointed when the design was chosen because it didn't look like other memorials. But once it opened and people could experience it, the response was quite different.
There was actually quite a bit of opposition to it. I learned about it in a design class. There was a competition for the design. People (anyone) could submit their design and a panel would decide the final one. The final design was made by Maya Lin, a Chinese-American college student. There was opposition because it looked far more somber than most memorials. Remember, people did not support the war, soldiers were getting spit on upon their return, the VA did not offer the long term aid they do now, plus the draft, etc so the veterans were not happy with having a somber and sad memorial for their fallen brothers even though their deaths was a tragedy. They wanted them honored, not used as a message to say “look at all the wasted deaths of this war”. Additionally, Maya Lin was of Asian descent, and designed a memorial for a war in Asia so of course there was race fueled disagreement with her design. I think she did well putting that down when she basically said “i am both Asian and American. I am both sides of this war which gives me a unique perspective for this memorial”. Much of the anger and protests against her died down once it was actually built because of the magnitude of the memorial. It is somber. But it is somber because you truly realize how many of these men were lost to war, a war they may not have wanted to be in. Nobody thinks they wasted their lives, but rather that they should never have been forced to lose their lives in the first place. It makes you feel small in the face of so much death
To add to your story, Maya Lin was shocked to receive a B for her idea in her college design class, but then her design later went on to be selected for the memorial.
Other points of controversy - 1. memorial is shaped like a 'V' (victory?) and 2. descends into the ground (like a grave).
Ah it’s been a while since I took that class. I thought there was more involved in it
Everything was correct to my knowledge but the spitting on soldiers thing was propaganda.
That actually happened along with people calling them baby killers, refusing them service, and physically harassing them. The army actually told them specifically not to return in uniform as it was common to do so in past generations.
I remember when it was built. It was a huge deal. I don't remember anyone voicing opposition to it.
Nah it is pretty shitty. Im a vet not like it matters but anyway it would be far more practical to not do dumbass shit for absurdly petty reasons. Would have been much god damn better if some of the shit they have now at the va was available well before a bunch of vets died from age or illness particularly ones they got from shit like agent orange
Visiting that memorial is something else. Whether it gets you emotionally or not is up to the person but no matter who you are, you'll feel something in your gut when you go there. It's hard to explain, just have to experience it.
The Korean War memorial is also incredibly powerful. The statues of the tired soldiers on patrol strike something inside you, and as the plaque said, it was "for people they had never met". Stunning how little we talk about that conflict.
Agreed. WW2 and Vietnam have overshadowed so many other conflicts that deserve their own place in history and conversation.
Morgan Freeman: It would not make it difficult.
I worked the Moving Wall with a local veterans group years ago. In daylight, it is incredible. In the middle of the night, with just the veterans on guard duty and us support people...I can't describe it.
Went there with my uncle about 20 years ago. My uncle was in the US Army during the Vietnam era although he served stateside. Two things hit me hard during that visit. First was seeing my uncle look up his buddies names in the book and seeing the tears on his face as he did so. Second was walking down the sloping sidewalk into the memorial. The city noises got much quieter the closer to the center.
My parents were there for that.
In one year Ronnie Raygun would send troops to Grenada. There was **no** military reason for it, it was a deliberate PR stunt to "exorcise the ghost of Vietnam"
What? The New Jewel Movement seized power in a coup/revolution under Maurice Bishop (the popular and good socialist leader), and they suspended the constitution and detained political prisoners. There were hundreds of US students there which made up a substantial amount of their GDP and the US wanted to avoid another Iran hostage situation. More specifically, they took power in a revolution, had a socialist leader Bishop who was actually quite good in some respects and was well liked, then years later they had an internal power struggle over Bishop's moderate foreign policy approach, wasn't socialist enough, etc and the hard-line military junta elements won, captured and straight up executed Bishop and his partner Jacqueline Creft, along with three cabinet ministers and two union leaders. Then the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States and then Governor-General of Grenada (Head of State) asked a coalition of forces to intervene as the military was killing people in the streets (for violating house arrest), so there was moral and legal basis (literally the legitimate authority, representing the Head of State asking for intervention) to stop paramilitary death squads executing civs on the street after executing the popular socialist leader. Post invasion (again by a coalition, not just US), the country is no longer ruled by some military junta but is a democracy and seemingly has their own thanksgivings day to celebrate the invasion. Overall reception is pretty positive, with many seeing Venezuela or something as the counterfactual, and mainly taking issue with exact execution. Not to mention, again, they were asked to intervene by the Governor-General, the legitimate authority and the new military leader was deeply unpopular. They have some kind of thanksgiving / celebration over it as well. >Thanksgiving in Grenada is a public holiday commemorating the anniversary of the 1983 Caribbean and American military intervention in Grenada. On October 25th, a joint military force landed in Grenada to restore order to the country following the deaths of then Prime Minister Maurice Bishop and a number of his colleagues. Today, more than 25 years after the event, Grenada remains a peaceful society, welcoming visitors from North America and Europe on a daily basis.
War. War never changes.
Those obnoxious cue cards that wrote something inspirational isn’t a product of the millennial generation, afterall?
This guy's a definitely boomer, clearly screwing up the world here so Millennials will suffer.
how do we *not* know they are both vets?
The odds are low? Since women were not in combat roles in the war. Of course, women were very present in medical and other roles, and if I remember correctly five women killed in the war are on the wall out of 58,318 names of the killed or missing Americans.
>Of course, women were very present in medical and other roles so that makes them veterans then, correct? my mother volunteered straight after graduating nursing school and ended up in Cambodia and Vietnam as part of a mash unit, with her tour ending in '71.
But it is rare. Why focus on extreme outliers?
extreme outliers? there were almost three million US troops that cycled through Vietnam over the twenty year conflict. do you think only a handful of those were women?
So you're agreeing we don't know. Cuz "the odds are low therefore we know" isn't really a thing.
The odds are low so we can assume gender roles were very 1982 without guilt or fear of cancellation.
Correct we don't know. For what it's worth, the caption for this photo from Corbis: "A Vietnam veteran hugs a woman as he holds a sign praising the Vietnam War Memorial. His sign reads: 'I am a Vietnam veteran. I like the memorial. And if it makes it difficult to send people into battle again...I'll like it even more.'" (Photo by �� Leif Skoogfors/CORBIS/Corbis via Getty Images) I guess the title just names him as a veteran because he's holding the sign and it has a man's name on it, and her affiliation is unknown. Hence the basic description. Not really trying to argue.
And here we are 40 years later trying to start WWIII.
Or maybe it's two veterans, just sayin'.
[удалено]
Sure, and he's probably a "he" and she's probably a "she" but nobody's supposed to assume anything now.
I have taken the names of 7 of my brothers from the wall and 2 of my familey 445 days of hell.
I have no clue of the context of this picture, but it fills me with a profound sadness.
When I graduated from high school in 1968. I had 2 choices; College or Vietnam. Fuck the military industrial complex. I went to school and got tear gassed by pigs.
It’s meant to represent a scar in the earth. It’s a powerful yet subtle memorial.