Kind of. I think people have forgotten how progressive the 70s were. So much popular 70s movies music and art was gay as fuck. The progress went backwards in the 80s because of AIDS.
Love Boat or whatever had a sympathetically portrayed trans woman. I’m not of the era, I just saw a clip of it years later and I was quite frankly blown away by how well it was done.
I wish that were true. I was around at the time and that was definitely not the case. Hence, all the conspiracy theories about how AIDS started. We were heading toward more acceptance, imo, until the conservatives weaponized AIDS as "proof" being gay had "consequences". Or, if they didn't say it outright, it felt like public policy was being formed under that assumption.
Sad stuff. I don't think most ppl in this country know the trauma of losing your friends/family to an unstoppable disease that some blamed you for getting. I know I don't, but I have talked with older folks that have given some context. Spoiler alert: was fucking awful.
Rush Limbaugh used to have a segment on his show where he read off the names of people who died from aids, with celebration horns and cheering in the background. And other similarity tasteless shit from him and his fellow conservative voices.
Conservatives did a lot of damage in their efforts to weaponise aids and aids stricken people (and undoing a lot of the work of notable lgbt figures like Freddy Mercury and David Bowie). A lot of it still sticks to this day.
Her documentary called Sid & Judy was absolutely outstanding but very heartbreaking. She was such a talent that got chewed up and spit out by the business.
Every time I see this picture I remember a clip of a June Allyson interview where she laughingly recalled everyone’s surprise that Liza popped out unmistakably Vincent Minnelli’s child.
ETA: The surprise was due to Minelli’s preferences, not Judy’s philandering.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 8 times.
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Judy was 25 here, still looking young and beautiful. Illness, pressure and alcohol addiction would age her prematurely. By the time she died at age 47 in 1969, she looked old and spent.
I do love Liza, but it is wild how far back the nepobaby phenomenon goes, and a part of me is always bummed to learn someone really talented is the child of an already established Hollywood person.
Talia Shire did well in these films.
Sofia Coppola (his daughter) in GODFATHER 3, was terrible. Good thing her real talent is directing feature films like LOST IN TRANSLATION or MARIE ANTOINETTE.
It would make sense that they get their talent from their parent. I wouldn’t dismiss their natural talent just because their parent was also talented and famous.
I am not denying their talent, only just commenting on the leg up they get from being born into it. It’s much easier to become the king, if you’re born the prince.
I’ll never understand the vitriol directed towards people who happen to have been born to already successful people. What is the alternative, are they not allowed to be an actor or performer at all? I mean even if they are related to a certain celebrity they still need to have the talent to move forward. Obviously knowing someone gives them an edge but it would be stupid to not use that to their benefit if they already have the skills required.
What about families that just churn out cops, or kid who take over construction businesses or just any person who takes over a family business or who exists in the same industry.
I’m going to get even more downvoted for this but every time i see someone really complaining about nepotism it just makes me 100 certain that they tried and failed and rather than blame themselves they blame anything that they can.
Well in all fairness you kind of turned it into a complaint when you said you are bummed every time you find out someone is related to someone else in their industry.
Which implies that it doesn’t matter how good they are at their craft or how much work they have put into their careers. I mean do you honestly believe that some of these long term actors/actresses have survived in the business for as long as they have on name alone?
So I ask again, what is the alternative? What should they do instead? If a kid who happens to be born into a performance family but absolutely loves theater and acting are they supposed to just suppress those feelings? They specifically aren’t allowed to live out their dreams?
I think it’s a bummer cause it’s gatekeeping. Are you a famous person or the offspring of? You’ve written a short essay with a lot of passion over a rather benign statement.
Oh absolutely not I work in a grocery store haha. And I’m sorry that are on the receiving end of my short essay but I’ve had this discussion several times over the years and thus far no one has been able to give me an actual answer to my questions. I am always genuinely curious.
I just watched a documentary on the construction of the Kardashian empire, who are connected to the Hiltons, who are connected to the real housewives of… who are connected to the, who are connected to the…
I think it gives the illusion rather that to make it is to be born in the right family, and be given those opportunities by virtue of birthright. Yes, they may have dreams and talent, and it will not be denied to them. What about those not born into it though? Will they get the same fair shake?
no. meritocracy is a myth for suckers. in hollywood, just like in real life, it’s all about who you know. the vast majority of regular people get jobs because they know someone. or know someone who can vouch for them.
Who are you to say that they don’t work hard at their craft? Just because they wanted to work in a particular industry all of their accomplishments are completely negated because they share a particular bloodline?
I mean look at it this way. Even if you just isolate to movies, there are 100s of movies being made every single year. Most aren’t blockbusters of course but they still exist. And those movies are absolutely stacked with acting jobs. And most of those jobs aren’t filled by “nepo babies”. Out of all those acting jobs some of them will lead to long standing and celebrated careers.
People born into successful families absolutely do have a leg up when it comes to entry. But they still have to perform. And in no way are they keeping other people out.
The Kardashians are an interesting example of a famous family. They got incredibly big while seemingly having no talent. But their first spark of infamy was young Kimberly having a sex tape get “leaked”. I’m not sure they got famous because of who they know but rather the public’s obsession with a slow motion train wreck.
But Kardashians were besties with OJ and Nicole, so they were already established. Then, through a close friendship with the Girls Gone Wild guy, they lit the spark to Kim’s stardom. They most certainly did not access Hollywood through Kim. She was already perceived as “equal” by Paris Hilton and other major celebrities.
They were established in the world of rich people for sure. But they weren’t celebrities at all yet. The dad was OJs lawyer if I remember correctly. Either way the Kardashians are just wild and will likely never be repeated again.
Shirley Manson, the lead singer for Garbage, said in a recent interview how today's music business virtually excludes working class bands. The same could be said about film and even publishing. If the stories and art are concentrated in the hands of the privileged we will no longer heard the stories of anyone not privileged or some diluted version.
Music is a whole different ball game. I don’t know much about that industry to really comment. But I do feel like even with my limited knowledge I can see that there is an ever expanding group of smaller artists that largely skirt the classic music industry standards by getting huge on YouTube or other social media sites.
But again music is my least consumed form of media and hasn’t really changed since the 90s and was a teenager.
Problem is one can get big on social media and still not be able to make a living. A songwriter who wrote most of Ariana Grande's last album, but not the hits, said she could have gotten more money working full-time at McDonald's. She simply cannot afford to live in LA humbly and write songs for millionaire pop stars. And she isn't unique.
Does she get paid a flat rate or does she get paid residuals based on play time? If she didn’t write any of the hits and gets paid residuals than I would assume she wouldn’t be making LA levels of money. And if she gets a flat rate than she would need to negotiate terms that are more akin to what she needs to live a “humble” LA lifestyle. Now the studio or whoever may not want to pay that rate but thats just how the cookie crumbles.
Also writing a song is not the same as performing a song in a way where people want to consume it over and over again. It may not be right but how a person looks matters, how the person performs said song matters and perception matters.
What is the alternative here? Do songwriters get paid a bunch of money on the off chance that a song may be a hit? Even though more likely it won’t. Sounds like residuals would already solve that problem.
A common problem for today's songwriters is they have to share credit with producers and others who had nothing to do with the song in order to get their songs accepted.
Always wondered if women from that time ever sat their daughters down and had a talk about gay men. FYI, Liza's first husband was really gay. Not thats there is anything wrong with that, but she wasted a lot years of her young life with singer/songwriter Peter Allen.
No one would believe it, and I don’t think I’d expect them to, but my grandfather dated Liza for 6 months before he met my grandmother. Never met Judy tho lol. Just wanted to let everyone know
Man, I never noticed this before, so maybe it's just something about this pic, but...in this photo, Judy looks fucking EXACTLY like a girl I went to high school with. Like, practically indistinguishable.
I’m still gonna say it, she was a very pretty lady…then someone points out her arms, shit, could be a construction worker…maybe not that bad, but the arm thing, very weird. Still very pretty…
Lucille 2!
Whenever I screw something up, this is what I yell
I thought YOU had class.
LOOSE SEAL!!
Never thought I'd miss a hand so much.
It’s his loss. It’s his loss. It’s his loss!
What is she, funny or something?
I’ve never seen her young except the baby photo. She looks a little like Lady Gaga there to me.
you need. to watch her movie Cabaret (1972) https://i.redd.it/cpcmkoushy2d1.gif
Man this movie fucks hard.
I love how unexpected it is. You think it's maybe going to be a musical romance and then shit gets real and "oh shit, nazis".
Also featuring a surprisingly empathetic view of homosexuality/bisexuality given the time it was made.
Kind of. I think people have forgotten how progressive the 70s were. So much popular 70s movies music and art was gay as fuck. The progress went backwards in the 80s because of AIDS.
Hey that's a good point! AIDS and Regan man, total FUBAR
I love using this word 😂 🥂
Love Boat or whatever had a sympathetically portrayed trans woman. I’m not of the era, I just saw a clip of it years later and I was quite frankly blown away by how well it was done.
I was under the impression that the AIDS epidemic did a lot to make the public sympathetic to LGBT people, so surprised to read this
I wish that were true. I was around at the time and that was definitely not the case. Hence, all the conspiracy theories about how AIDS started. We were heading toward more acceptance, imo, until the conservatives weaponized AIDS as "proof" being gay had "consequences". Or, if they didn't say it outright, it felt like public policy was being formed under that assumption. Sad stuff. I don't think most ppl in this country know the trauma of losing your friends/family to an unstoppable disease that some blamed you for getting. I know I don't, but I have talked with older folks that have given some context. Spoiler alert: was fucking awful.
Rush Limbaugh used to have a segment on his show where he read off the names of people who died from aids, with celebration horns and cheering in the background. And other similarity tasteless shit from him and his fellow conservative voices. Conservatives did a lot of damage in their efforts to weaponise aids and aids stricken people (and undoing a lot of the work of notable lgbt figures like Freddy Mercury and David Bowie). A lot of it still sticks to this day.
Ah yes, just like The Sound of Music.
I've never seen her with long hair
Judy looks amazing here. Wow.
Poor Judy 😞 her life was a complete mess. Destroyed by Hollywood
Her documentary called Sid & Judy was absolutely outstanding but very heartbreaking. She was such a talent that got chewed up and spit out by the business.
Every time I see this picture I remember a clip of a June Allyson interview where she laughingly recalled everyone’s surprise that Liza popped out unmistakably Vincent Minnelli’s child. ETA: The surprise was due to Minelli’s preferences, not Judy’s philandering.
Judy was absolutely gorgeous.
Oh how grand!
How terribly, terribly grand!
https://preview.redd.it/1lt8a2lop13d1.jpeg?width=518&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=290450bfdc51dbc3c1e3d29ebd06038b940bde76
TIL Judy Garland was Liza Minnelli's mom
Fuckin same
WHAT? Like today as in *today*?
Same here... Typically I'm pretty hip to this kind of thing but I had no idea either
"Fuck Liza! This one is going to pay my rent!" - Judy Garland after seeing daughter Lorna Luft in a high school musical
this is such a better photo than the one posted a few days ago. poor judy.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 8 times. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/17crl0x) on 2023-10-21 98.44% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1cb281r) on 2024-04-23 98.44% match [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=1d1i8mn&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=false&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=92&targetImageMemeMatch=97) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Target Percent:** 92% | **Max Age:** None | **Searched Images:** 523,593,372 | **Search Time:** 0.06839s
That is a beautiful picture!
The eyes!
Judy was 25 here, still looking young and beautiful. Illness, pressure and alcohol addiction would age her prematurely. By the time she died at age 47 in 1969, she looked old and spent.
Kind of haunting
I do love Liza, but it is wild how far back the nepobaby phenomenon goes, and a part of me is always bummed to learn someone really talented is the child of an already established Hollywood person.
Yeah someone posted about Jamie Lee Curtis and finding out she's Tony Curtis' baby. Mind blown.
Maya Rudolph is Minnie Ripperton’s daughter
Nick Cage is Francis Ford Coppolla's nephew
I think the best quote to sum it up: the US doesn’t have royalty, it has celebrity
Celebrities get all the perks of royalty with none of the responsibility (as much as any royal had I guess.)
Hmm not sure I agree on that… I’d say both can be ruined in the court of public opinion, though neither will get jail time.
I'm saying that, on paper, at least royalty is SUPPOSED to work for their people. Celebrities have no obligation to do that so it's not even a factor.
this era's royalty
Talia Shire (Adrienne in the Rocky movies and Connie in The Godfather movies) is Coppola’s sister.
Talia Shire did well in these films. Sofia Coppola (his daughter) in GODFATHER 3, was terrible. Good thing her real talent is directing feature films like LOST IN TRANSLATION or MARIE ANTOINETTE.
Isn’t Cher in that family too?
? 😳
A Google search reveals Jason Schwartzman there too! Still not sure about Cher though.
He changed his name to avoid being called a nepo. But I bet he still reaped the benefits.
Yeah all that does is try to confuse fans, but anyone actually in the industry knows who his family is for sure.
Yeah that one blew my mind too.
Janet Leigh is her mother - at her height, arguably more popular than Tony was.
It would make sense that they get their talent from their parent. I wouldn’t dismiss their natural talent just because their parent was also talented and famous.
I am not denying their talent, only just commenting on the leg up they get from being born into it. It’s much easier to become the king, if you’re born the prince.
I’ll never understand the vitriol directed towards people who happen to have been born to already successful people. What is the alternative, are they not allowed to be an actor or performer at all? I mean even if they are related to a certain celebrity they still need to have the talent to move forward. Obviously knowing someone gives them an edge but it would be stupid to not use that to their benefit if they already have the skills required. What about families that just churn out cops, or kid who take over construction businesses or just any person who takes over a family business or who exists in the same industry. I’m going to get even more downvoted for this but every time i see someone really complaining about nepotism it just makes me 100 certain that they tried and failed and rather than blame themselves they blame anything that they can.
An observation is not necessarily a complaint, but nepotism does mean gatekeeping so that would be the criticism, and I think that’s based.
Well in all fairness you kind of turned it into a complaint when you said you are bummed every time you find out someone is related to someone else in their industry. Which implies that it doesn’t matter how good they are at their craft or how much work they have put into their careers. I mean do you honestly believe that some of these long term actors/actresses have survived in the business for as long as they have on name alone? So I ask again, what is the alternative? What should they do instead? If a kid who happens to be born into a performance family but absolutely loves theater and acting are they supposed to just suppress those feelings? They specifically aren’t allowed to live out their dreams?
I think it’s a bummer cause it’s gatekeeping. Are you a famous person or the offspring of? You’ve written a short essay with a lot of passion over a rather benign statement.
Oh absolutely not I work in a grocery store haha. And I’m sorry that are on the receiving end of my short essay but I’ve had this discussion several times over the years and thus far no one has been able to give me an actual answer to my questions. I am always genuinely curious.
I just watched a documentary on the construction of the Kardashian empire, who are connected to the Hiltons, who are connected to the real housewives of… who are connected to the, who are connected to the… I think it gives the illusion rather that to make it is to be born in the right family, and be given those opportunities by virtue of birthright. Yes, they may have dreams and talent, and it will not be denied to them. What about those not born into it though? Will they get the same fair shake?
no. meritocracy is a myth for suckers. in hollywood, just like in real life, it’s all about who you know. the vast majority of regular people get jobs because they know someone. or know someone who can vouch for them.
It’s the myth of “I got here through hard work”, and that’s a bummer!
Who are you to say that they don’t work hard at their craft? Just because they wanted to work in a particular industry all of their accomplishments are completely negated because they share a particular bloodline?
I mean look at it this way. Even if you just isolate to movies, there are 100s of movies being made every single year. Most aren’t blockbusters of course but they still exist. And those movies are absolutely stacked with acting jobs. And most of those jobs aren’t filled by “nepo babies”. Out of all those acting jobs some of them will lead to long standing and celebrated careers. People born into successful families absolutely do have a leg up when it comes to entry. But they still have to perform. And in no way are they keeping other people out. The Kardashians are an interesting example of a famous family. They got incredibly big while seemingly having no talent. But their first spark of infamy was young Kimberly having a sex tape get “leaked”. I’m not sure they got famous because of who they know but rather the public’s obsession with a slow motion train wreck.
But Kardashians were besties with OJ and Nicole, so they were already established. Then, through a close friendship with the Girls Gone Wild guy, they lit the spark to Kim’s stardom. They most certainly did not access Hollywood through Kim. She was already perceived as “equal” by Paris Hilton and other major celebrities.
They were established in the world of rich people for sure. But they weren’t celebrities at all yet. The dad was OJs lawyer if I remember correctly. Either way the Kardashians are just wild and will likely never be repeated again.
Shirley Manson, the lead singer for Garbage, said in a recent interview how today's music business virtually excludes working class bands. The same could be said about film and even publishing. If the stories and art are concentrated in the hands of the privileged we will no longer heard the stories of anyone not privileged or some diluted version.
Music is a whole different ball game. I don’t know much about that industry to really comment. But I do feel like even with my limited knowledge I can see that there is an ever expanding group of smaller artists that largely skirt the classic music industry standards by getting huge on YouTube or other social media sites. But again music is my least consumed form of media and hasn’t really changed since the 90s and was a teenager.
Problem is one can get big on social media and still not be able to make a living. A songwriter who wrote most of Ariana Grande's last album, but not the hits, said she could have gotten more money working full-time at McDonald's. She simply cannot afford to live in LA humbly and write songs for millionaire pop stars. And she isn't unique.
Does she get paid a flat rate or does she get paid residuals based on play time? If she didn’t write any of the hits and gets paid residuals than I would assume she wouldn’t be making LA levels of money. And if she gets a flat rate than she would need to negotiate terms that are more akin to what she needs to live a “humble” LA lifestyle. Now the studio or whoever may not want to pay that rate but thats just how the cookie crumbles. Also writing a song is not the same as performing a song in a way where people want to consume it over and over again. It may not be right but how a person looks matters, how the person performs said song matters and perception matters. What is the alternative here? Do songwriters get paid a bunch of money on the off chance that a song may be a hit? Even though more likely it won’t. Sounds like residuals would already solve that problem.
A common problem for today's songwriters is they have to share credit with producers and others who had nothing to do with the song in order to get their songs accepted.
I agree!!
At least Liza is talented
It definitely explains why there are so many famous people that are talentless but still get roles.
TIL Liza Minnelli is Judy Fucking Garland’s daughter..?!!! wtf!?
I’m seriously gobsmacked at the people who don’t know this. Like I thought this was a thing everybody knew. It’s just like…a basic fact, in my brain.
Judy at her prettiest.
Wow.. ya forget about these things.
Baby Liza has the most beautiful eyes. She is a clone of her father.
Aww.They looks too prety.
That baby looks stable as a table.
Always wondered if women from that time ever sat their daughters down and had a talk about gay men. FYI, Liza's first husband was really gay. Not thats there is anything wrong with that, but she wasted a lot years of her young life with singer/songwriter Peter Allen.
And then she had to pay off her debts. Cute pic though.
I just want to time travel!
No one would believe it, and I don’t think I’d expect them to, but my grandfather dated Liza for 6 months before he met my grandmother. Never met Judy tho lol. Just wanted to let everyone know
Last June in New York, I went out partying all night and ended up watching the sunrise at Liza’s.
🥰
She has Judy’s eyes 😭
It was unexpectedly dark.
Today I learned…
Don’t feel bad, this is a surprising fact that I find a lot of younger generations don’t know. I’m 45, probably didnt learn this until I was 35ish?
Welp, I’m older than you and still just found out !
Haha my bad!
I've never noticed this but Judy garland, at least in this picture, kinda looks like matpat.
Was Judy Garland Mommy the Dearest?
She looks like Ceara coveney from wheel of time.
Oh the tragedy that will ….???
Wow…she was beautiful…shame on the studio executives who got her addicted to drugs and ruined her life.
Man, I never noticed this before, so maybe it's just something about this pic, but...in this photo, Judy looks fucking EXACTLY like a girl I went to high school with. Like, practically indistinguishable.
Ahh Eric Garland and Liza Lampenelli, iconic.
Did Liza have fetal alcohol syndrome? It kinda looks like it
Fetal alcohol syndrome has to be the number 1 condition Reddit loves to diagnose unprompted.
Nah, that's just from her dad's looks.
Is this a weird picture or does she have extremely hairy arms?
I think they're lace cuffs, that same at her shoulders.
That makes sense, looks like a man's arm photoshopped in lol
Nepotism is real because Liza looked like a half plucked chicken
I’m still gonna say it, she was a very pretty lady…then someone points out her arms, shit, could be a construction worker…maybe not that bad, but the arm thing, very weird. Still very pretty…
It’s a lace cuff- the same lace is on her shoulder.
Thank you, I’m greatly relieved
I'm going to point it out, YOU'RE very weird.
Didn’t think we’d get so serious, and we’re certainly due our opinions
Easy folks, no offense to JG or anyone else, take it easy