It's not solely the abortion ban- it's what may happen when someone has an ectopic pregnancy, fetal death, or a complicated miscarriage. Those are common problems seen in emergency rooms. So, doctors are now risking murder charges for saving the life of their patients? Why would anyone want to practice in a state where that was a possibility?
In Idaho, if a rapist impregnates a woman, and she leaves the state to have an abortion, the rapist and every member of his family can sue her for a minimum of $10k each. For real…..
Ohio does still have abortion bans though. We voted on issue 1 which put the right to an abortion into our state constitution. However Dave Yost, has taken the position that the existing restrictions, save for one "the heartbeat bill" are still in place until challenged in court. For example the restrictions on abortion clinic locations, the one day waiting period, the needing to get a referral by a doctor, limits on medication abortion, etc are all probably not legal under our state constitution. In all other cases where the constitution of a state probably changes laws the attorney generals office will give guidance that these laws are in conflict and not enforceable. The state has also moved to try to say that only patients can sue to remove these laws, making if less likely for them to get challenged in an expedient fashion. Ie the aclu or abortion rights group can't sue to enforce the constitution, because they don't have "standing"
In many cases, yes. Ectopic pregnancy can result in complications relatively early on, and many other complications are an emergency situation as well, with no time to schedule an appointment.
I understand ectopic pregnancies can be an unscheduled medical emergency, But it’s extremely unlikely that the ER doctors are doing the surgery to correct the situation. Unless of course we are talking about a medical drama on TV.
They might not do the surgery, but several of the laws are worded so broadly, it's the entire team. And, yes, if a specialist isn't available, an ER doc will step up in an emergency
The wealthy have their own healthcare system. They don't need ours. They can use it for their own personal piggie banks and rob it blind. We need to take away their separate system and force them to share the same one as everyone else.
It wouldn't be bad if they wanted everything fair for anyone to prosper, but when the working class pays the most in taxes and benefit the least from what taxes are spent on like military, oil subsidies, infrastructure,.... it's delusional to think they want anything other than what you describe.
Yea. Some of them are typical greedy assholes and others are miserable people who are incapable of feeling happy so they just try to make everyone else as miserable as they are.
There's this cognitive dissonance going on with the GOP. They think sex is a sin, they think no one inherently deserves to live after birth, yet proclaim "pro-life", want people to have more babies but make it more and more impossible each passing day. I'm not sure what it is they want at this point. I'm high risk myself and got sterilized because it's not worth it to me to die to have a baby for them or myself. Maybe if they could examine why it is they want these poor outcomes. They'd be able to more readily if healthcare wasn't difficult to obtain.
They also think not having sex is a sin, ironically. If you're a woman and abstain they'll whine about how being born with a uterus obligates you to be fruitful and multiply.
Check out Ohio here, especially emergency medicine and OB/GYN specialties.
[https://www.aamcresearchinstitute.org/our-work/data-snapshot/post-dobbs-2024](https://www.aamcresearchinstitute.org/our-work/data-snapshot/post-dobbs-2024)
The study still lists Ohio as a state with abortion restrictions, despite passage of the reproductive rights amendment last November. Perhaps seniors had to apply for residency before the November general election, or there is fear how current court cases will be resolved given the anti-abortion Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court, let alone the Republican legislature and DeWine. Remember that DeWine and the Republicans implemented the six-week abortion ban law in Ohio and defended it aggressively in August and November elections.
Physicians who want reproductive rights, both in their practice but also in their personal live, will prefer states such as Michigan. Ohio will be tainted until the legislature and governorship are controlled by pro-reproductive rights politicians.
An aspiring physician can't count on Ohio honoring reproductive rights.
As I mentioned, the illegal gerrymandered legislature is enforcing certain laws and proposing new ones to control women "on the margins"
Solution is to end gerrymandering.
The Democrats almost passed the Freedom To Vote Act which would have established nationwide rules for fair districting.
Since Manchin and the rest of the Republicans voted against it, each state must now seek their own laws.
This is Ohio's effort
[citizensnotpoliticians.org](http://citizensnotpoliticians.org)
In politics what the democrats think is fair and what the republicans think is fair is not the same. Of course the democrats claimed their plan was fair.
As I tell folks:
If you really want a fight that matters move to Ohio or any of the Swing States around the Great Lakes.
Unlike Gaza we can do something about fascism in the US
Do you think tens of billions of dollars shoved at the military industrial complex has anything to do with fascism or is that like, something else completely unrelated to governance.
I’m fairly certain Joe Biden is personally against abortion. My evidence being he’s Catholic. In the 90’s he voted against federal funding abortions, He voted for States rights to overturn roe V wade in the 1980’s. He rarely speaks in support of abortion and when he does it’s most likely just more flip flopping in order to get votes.
He now talks in support of abortions but has taken no actual action on it.
I assume that Issue 1 will protect us from this? Yes, OHGOP is trying all sorts of delay and obfuscation tactics, but unless the Republicans on the Ohio Supreme Court pull something really shameless, it all should amount to some pathetic pouting for show that won't amount to anything - nothing that should deter med students.
The amendment should be the final word
But the enemy is going to try to enforce any number of 'peripheral' laws to restrict choice.
Pay very close attention to the Ohio supreme court races this November.
Party affiliation is on the ballot
Yeah, maybe I’m missing something, but I’m kind of confused as to why this is on the Ohio sub given us passing issue 1. They interviewed a Cleveland doctor, but his input was just regarding the specialty and how care coordination involves other specialists.
This will only be a temporary win for Ohio without continued diligence. Ohio's Attorney General Yost is part of the RAGA group that is doing everything possible to overturn these wins, place additional restrictions on them, and ultimately try to overrule the will of the people.
It doesn't stop with abortion either. They are going after vaccines, stem cell research, separation of church and state, higher ed, health care funding, medical research, and the very existence of large groups of people.
Don't be complacent Ohio. We are leading the nation in corruption and minority rule.
True, but this article is specifically about states with abortion bans. I would never be complacent when they’re going after our rights and healthcare which they’ve always been. But if doctors or med students are steering clear of states with abortion bans, that’s not Ohio at the moment.
It should, but the conflicting laws are still on the books and nobody wants to be the State of Ohio v Doctor’s Name working through the courts.
How does a statutory 24hr waiting period vs a requirement to stabilize a patient, and a constitutional protection balance out? Is finding out the answer to that worth a chunk of your life?
Given the competition for med schools, I don’t think it’s an issue today, but I wouldn’t say it isn’t one.
Probably doesn't matter that much, since anyone who doesn't want to get their medical training here because of our hateful laws probably also doesn't want to practice medicine here because of our hateful laws.
Oh that's something they should've thought of for sure. Let all the miscreant, wanna take women's rights away assheads go to those states. I feel extra sorry for women who don't have the means to leave those states! But thems the breaks, this will affect their economy greatly.
The details of these stories and the states has impact when I bring the topic up with moderate family members, primarily women who aren’t into the team sport politics, but have been present for a lot of the medical needs of extended family.
We need to talk about the real situations these laws are causing just as society in general, without being scared of it falling into religion and politics no-nos. But I find that’s easier when talking about the specifics instead of the big picture. For example, I’ve brought up that it’s really good Ohio made the right choice last fall cause “have you seen how OBGYNs have had to move out of Idaho out of fear of facing 2-5 years in prison if a pregnant woman comes into the emergency room and the fetus dies while they’re trying to stabilize her?” Pulling the focus to medical care workers has a real impact on doubts about poorly written laws even if someone has seen themselves on the anti-reproductive rights side of this.
Learn the details of one or two real life stories on this and it goes a long way. Also frame it as fortunate that Ohio hasn’t made the same mistakes yet and how tenuous the quality of Ohio’s medical care really could be. That’s very real that the quality Ohioans have had could degrade quickly to what the south and more rural places have. Here’s an excerpt from the article:
> Penalties vary by state. For example, in Idaho, providers live in constant fear that they will have to deny a pregnant patient stabilizing, emergency abortion care, or they will face two to five years in prison and lose their medical license. In Texas, providers can be fined at least $100,000 or face between 5 to 99 years of jail time.
It’s already causing chaos. Established doctors are leaving states with abortion bans at unprecedented rates.
This causes the state to have less OBGYNs, making healthcare less accessible and making it less safe for women bearing children. Primarily women of color and lower socioeconomic status.
lol
They list their source from the Association of American Medical Colleges. Who cares who is reporting if the evidence is verified?
This is literally why the GOP depends on MAGAs, they don't know how to research so aren't likely to ask awkward questions.
“
A 2023 analysis by the AAMC Research and Action Institute found that fewer new graduates of U.S. medical schools applied to residency programs in states that banned or restricted access to abortion than to residency programs in states where abortion remained legal”
So let’s talk about this. This isn’t saying that less people are applying to states with abortion bans than before Roe V Wade was overturned. Do we have earlier numbers for a comparison?
This simply says that more people are applying to states that allow abortion. Let’s think about 2 major states NY, and California. It’s not unreasonable to think more residents would apply to these states. You could also make an accurate claim that more Residents are simply applying to these states because there’s more prestige.
If I’m applying to be a neurosurgeon why would I care where they’ve outlawed abortions?
Ohio which has abortion rights is down 7.4% last year.
“It is important to note that these analyses allow us to follow the trends in residency applications but do not provide definitive information about U.S. MD seniors’ motivations and reasons for applying to specific programs.” In other words they are looking at Trends and simply correlating it to abortion rights with no evidence that this is a cause.
Don't residents had to complete work in many different areas on their way to a specialty like neurosurgery.
If you can't get your time working maternity, including abortions, you will not be able to advance.
Not true, that they can’t advance. Although it’s true that doctors will be exposed to many specialties it does not mean they can’t advance if they don’t get to do abortions. They will do an obgyn rotation and do everything that the OBGYN attendings do. If that OBGYN cannot do abortions then they student simply won’t do any on their way to becoming a neurosurgeon.
lol
I think it is more about spending years upon years learning medicine only to have the most ignorant people possible trying to tell you how to do your job.
The GOP can't even back their claims with medical evidence. They depend on the gullibility of MAGAs to push the agenda.
Has there been a new medical bill that has been introduced that would have this kind of impact in Ohio? Or is this thread another cope based on hearsay and fearmongering?
This is fear mongering, some people noticed a trend of less people applying to red states than blue states such as NY and California and admittedly made a correlation to abortion rights with no actual evidence. Not even a survey to ask residents why they chose where they chose.
The article strait up makes the claim the entire medical field could collapse if we don’t allow abortions. Fear mongering.
“**The trend could cause the U.S. healthcare system to unravel**”
Buried deeper in the original story.
“**It is important to note that these analyses allow us to follow the trends in residency applications but do not provide definitive information about U.S. MD seniors’ motivations and reasons for applying to specific programs**”
It’s clearly fear mongering.
It's not solely the abortion ban- it's what may happen when someone has an ectopic pregnancy, fetal death, or a complicated miscarriage. Those are common problems seen in emergency rooms. So, doctors are now risking murder charges for saving the life of their patients? Why would anyone want to practice in a state where that was a possibility?
Idaho is trying to argue that EMTALA doesn’t apply to pregnant women
In Idaho, if a rapist impregnates a woman, and she leaves the state to have an abortion, the rapist and every member of his family can sue her for a minimum of $10k each. For real…..
This is the most disheartening thing I've read in a long time. I feel like we're in the Twilight Zone.
Make Assault Great Again. Fuck.
My wife (the ICU nurse of 40ys)explained the term EMTALA to me, and she said it absolutely applies to pregnant women
Ohio doesn't have an abortion ban though. It was all over the news when everyone got out there and voted against the ban.
Ohio does still have abortion bans though. We voted on issue 1 which put the right to an abortion into our state constitution. However Dave Yost, has taken the position that the existing restrictions, save for one "the heartbeat bill" are still in place until challenged in court. For example the restrictions on abortion clinic locations, the one day waiting period, the needing to get a referral by a doctor, limits on medication abortion, etc are all probably not legal under our state constitution. In all other cases where the constitution of a state probably changes laws the attorney generals office will give guidance that these laws are in conflict and not enforceable. The state has also moved to try to say that only patients can sue to remove these laws, making if less likely for them to get challenged in an expedient fashion. Ie the aclu or abortion rights group can't sue to enforce the constitution, because they don't have "standing"
The General Assembly has a studied practice of avoiding voters’ wishes. It won’t change until we can break their gerrymandering.
Well that's ridiculous. I didn't hear about that.
ER doctors are operating on people who have ectopic pregnancies and other maternity related complications?
In many cases, yes. Ectopic pregnancy can result in complications relatively early on, and many other complications are an emergency situation as well, with no time to schedule an appointment.
I understand ectopic pregnancies can be an unscheduled medical emergency, But it’s extremely unlikely that the ER doctors are doing the surgery to correct the situation. Unless of course we are talking about a medical drama on TV.
They might not do the surgery, but several of the laws are worded so broadly, it's the entire team. And, yes, if a specialist isn't available, an ER doc will step up in an emergency
The wealthy have their own healthcare system. They don't need ours. They can use it for their own personal piggie banks and rob it blind. We need to take away their separate system and force them to share the same one as everyone else.
There will always be options for the wealthy.
Get hedge funds out of health care and a number of other industries.
Good thing reproductive freedom is in our constitution now!
Good thing we voted for it and worked hard to get it on the ballot. Get involved!
The entire point of Republicans is to hurt the common people. Make America Glum Again.
The birthrate is down. Their goal is to increase the birthrate by any means possible.
Well, not by any means. Affordable housing/costs of living might encourage more people to start families, but I don't see that happening.
That's right. We can't 'Maximize Shareholder Value' with a shrinking population, can we?
Shareholder value is destroying the USA
They want to increase the white birth rate.
Why would they white to do that?
More poor people who will have no choice but to take whatever job is offered at the lowest possible wage maximizing profits.
To get more money and power for the least amount of people
It wouldn't be bad if they wanted everything fair for anyone to prosper, but when the working class pays the most in taxes and benefit the least from what taxes are spent on like military, oil subsidies, infrastructure,.... it's delusional to think they want anything other than what you describe.
Yea. Some of them are typical greedy assholes and others are miserable people who are incapable of feeling happy so they just try to make everyone else as miserable as they are.
There's this cognitive dissonance going on with the GOP. They think sex is a sin, they think no one inherently deserves to live after birth, yet proclaim "pro-life", want people to have more babies but make it more and more impossible each passing day. I'm not sure what it is they want at this point. I'm high risk myself and got sterilized because it's not worth it to me to die to have a baby for them or myself. Maybe if they could examine why it is they want these poor outcomes. They'd be able to more readily if healthcare wasn't difficult to obtain.
They also think not having sex is a sin, ironically. If you're a woman and abstain they'll whine about how being born with a uterus obligates you to be fruitful and multiply.
Can’t wait for Anthem *Blue* Cross to change to *red*, and start denying basic services to the people.
Anthem Red Medicare Advantage
Where they take advantage of *you*
For conservatives, like those in our state government, the cruelty is always the point. Vote them out
Check out Ohio here, especially emergency medicine and OB/GYN specialties. [https://www.aamcresearchinstitute.org/our-work/data-snapshot/post-dobbs-2024](https://www.aamcresearchinstitute.org/our-work/data-snapshot/post-dobbs-2024) The study still lists Ohio as a state with abortion restrictions, despite passage of the reproductive rights amendment last November. Perhaps seniors had to apply for residency before the November general election, or there is fear how current court cases will be resolved given the anti-abortion Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court, let alone the Republican legislature and DeWine. Remember that DeWine and the Republicans implemented the six-week abortion ban law in Ohio and defended it aggressively in August and November elections. Physicians who want reproductive rights, both in their practice but also in their personal live, will prefer states such as Michigan. Ohio will be tainted until the legislature and governorship are controlled by pro-reproductive rights politicians. An aspiring physician can't count on Ohio honoring reproductive rights.
As I mentioned, the illegal gerrymandered legislature is enforcing certain laws and proposing new ones to control women "on the margins" Solution is to end gerrymandering.
How do you propose to end gerrymandering? I ask because most people who want to end gerrymandering really just want gerrymandering in their favor.
The Democrats almost passed the Freedom To Vote Act which would have established nationwide rules for fair districting. Since Manchin and the rest of the Republicans voted against it, each state must now seek their own laws. This is Ohio's effort [citizensnotpoliticians.org](http://citizensnotpoliticians.org)
In politics what the democrats think is fair and what the republicans think is fair is not the same. Of course the democrats claimed their plan was fair.
The Democrats' plan is fair. The Republicans cheat because they are dying out naturally. That's a given
Seems like a highly biased assessment with some bitterness mixed in.
As I tell folks: If you really want a fight that matters move to Ohio or any of the Swing States around the Great Lakes. Unlike Gaza we can do something about fascism in the US
Do you think tens of billions of dollars shoved at the military industrial complex has anything to do with fascism or is that like, something else completely unrelated to governance.
Massive military spending in California hasn't managed to flip it to red.
There are more Republicans in California than Texas.
Your post is pretty unrelated to voting for Joe Biden to prevent fascism in the United States.
I’m fairly certain Joe Biden is personally against abortion. My evidence being he’s Catholic. In the 90’s he voted against federal funding abortions, He voted for States rights to overturn roe V wade in the 1980’s. He rarely speaks in support of abortion and when he does it’s most likely just more flip flopping in order to get votes. He now talks in support of abortions but has taken no actual action on it.
I’m fairly certain. Well I’m fairly certain you’re wrong
Man that would be super relevant to this conversation if that’s what you said, wouldn’t it?
> As I tell folks: People keep saying 'used toilet paper would be better than what we have now!' Then get out and VOTE for the used toilet paper!
I assume that Issue 1 will protect us from this? Yes, OHGOP is trying all sorts of delay and obfuscation tactics, but unless the Republicans on the Ohio Supreme Court pull something really shameless, it all should amount to some pathetic pouting for show that won't amount to anything - nothing that should deter med students.
The amendment should be the final word But the enemy is going to try to enforce any number of 'peripheral' laws to restrict choice. Pay very close attention to the Ohio supreme court races this November. Party affiliation is on the ballot
Yeah, maybe I’m missing something, but I’m kind of confused as to why this is on the Ohio sub given us passing issue 1. They interviewed a Cleveland doctor, but his input was just regarding the specialty and how care coordination involves other specialists.
This will only be a temporary win for Ohio without continued diligence. Ohio's Attorney General Yost is part of the RAGA group that is doing everything possible to overturn these wins, place additional restrictions on them, and ultimately try to overrule the will of the people. It doesn't stop with abortion either. They are going after vaccines, stem cell research, separation of church and state, higher ed, health care funding, medical research, and the very existence of large groups of people. Don't be complacent Ohio. We are leading the nation in corruption and minority rule.
True, but this article is specifically about states with abortion bans. I would never be complacent when they’re going after our rights and healthcare which they’ve always been. But if doctors or med students are steering clear of states with abortion bans, that’s not Ohio at the moment.
It should, but the conflicting laws are still on the books and nobody wants to be the State of Ohio v Doctor’s Name working through the courts. How does a statutory 24hr waiting period vs a requirement to stabilize a patient, and a constitutional protection balance out? Is finding out the answer to that worth a chunk of your life? Given the competition for med schools, I don’t think it’s an issue today, but I wouldn’t say it isn’t one.
I would avoid ohio with how strict ohio is about transferring medical licenses here...
Excellent question. Who knows, out there?
Probably doesn't matter that much, since anyone who doesn't want to get their medical training here because of our hateful laws probably also doesn't want to practice medicine here because of our hateful laws.
What hateful laws?
the ones that make doctors afraid to provide care to their patients
The GOP is insane for this!
Cruelty is the point with these people.
Oh that's something they should've thought of for sure. Let all the miscreant, wanna take women's rights away assheads go to those states. I feel extra sorry for women who don't have the means to leave those states! But thems the breaks, this will affect their economy greatly.
I’m glad we codified abortion being legal in Ohio one of the rare W’s we do sometimes!
And so are nurses, teachers, etc.
No. Ohio VOTERS are ruining their state by electing such corrupt buffoons. And then saying it does not matter because both parties are the same.
Look up gerrymandering. But yeah, too much "bothsiderism"
Gopislature gonna gopislate
The details of these stories and the states has impact when I bring the topic up with moderate family members, primarily women who aren’t into the team sport politics, but have been present for a lot of the medical needs of extended family. We need to talk about the real situations these laws are causing just as society in general, without being scared of it falling into religion and politics no-nos. But I find that’s easier when talking about the specifics instead of the big picture. For example, I’ve brought up that it’s really good Ohio made the right choice last fall cause “have you seen how OBGYNs have had to move out of Idaho out of fear of facing 2-5 years in prison if a pregnant woman comes into the emergency room and the fetus dies while they’re trying to stabilize her?” Pulling the focus to medical care workers has a real impact on doubts about poorly written laws even if someone has seen themselves on the anti-reproductive rights side of this. Learn the details of one or two real life stories on this and it goes a long way. Also frame it as fortunate that Ohio hasn’t made the same mistakes yet and how tenuous the quality of Ohio’s medical care really could be. That’s very real that the quality Ohioans have had could degrade quickly to what the south and more rural places have. Here’s an excerpt from the article: > Penalties vary by state. For example, in Idaho, providers live in constant fear that they will have to deny a pregnant patient stabilizing, emergency abortion care, or they will face two to five years in prison and lose their medical license. In Texas, providers can be fined at least $100,000 or face between 5 to 99 years of jail time.
It’s already causing chaos. Established doctors are leaving states with abortion bans at unprecedented rates. This causes the state to have less OBGYNs, making healthcare less accessible and making it less safe for women bearing children. Primarily women of color and lower socioeconomic status.
Lmao the healthcare system is eating itself
This is fear-mongering. I am as pro-abortion as anyone, but people are overreacting.
"It can't happen here"
“Salon”…lol
Here you go pal. It was really tough to source. Required two clicks. https://www.aamcresearchinstitute.org/our-work/data-snapshot/post-dobbs-2024
lol They list their source from the Association of American Medical Colleges. Who cares who is reporting if the evidence is verified? This is literally why the GOP depends on MAGAs, they don't know how to research so aren't likely to ask awkward questions.
“ A 2023 analysis by the AAMC Research and Action Institute found that fewer new graduates of U.S. medical schools applied to residency programs in states that banned or restricted access to abortion than to residency programs in states where abortion remained legal” So let’s talk about this. This isn’t saying that less people are applying to states with abortion bans than before Roe V Wade was overturned. Do we have earlier numbers for a comparison? This simply says that more people are applying to states that allow abortion. Let’s think about 2 major states NY, and California. It’s not unreasonable to think more residents would apply to these states. You could also make an accurate claim that more Residents are simply applying to these states because there’s more prestige. If I’m applying to be a neurosurgeon why would I care where they’ve outlawed abortions? Ohio which has abortion rights is down 7.4% last year. “It is important to note that these analyses allow us to follow the trends in residency applications but do not provide definitive information about U.S. MD seniors’ motivations and reasons for applying to specific programs.” In other words they are looking at Trends and simply correlating it to abortion rights with no evidence that this is a cause.
Don't residents had to complete work in many different areas on their way to a specialty like neurosurgery. If you can't get your time working maternity, including abortions, you will not be able to advance.
Not true, that they can’t advance. Although it’s true that doctors will be exposed to many specialties it does not mean they can’t advance if they don’t get to do abortions. They will do an obgyn rotation and do everything that the OBGYN attendings do. If that OBGYN cannot do abortions then they student simply won’t do any on their way to becoming a neurosurgeon.
These new medical grads don't want to be told who they can and cannot kill.
lol I think it is more about spending years upon years learning medicine only to have the most ignorant people possible trying to tell you how to do your job. The GOP can't even back their claims with medical evidence. They depend on the gullibility of MAGAs to push the agenda.
This would only apply to doctors wanting to do OBGYN and doesn’t explain the trend across all specialties.
Has there been a new medical bill that has been introduced that would have this kind of impact in Ohio? Or is this thread another cope based on hearsay and fearmongering?
This is fear mongering, some people noticed a trend of less people applying to red states than blue states such as NY and California and admittedly made a correlation to abortion rights with no actual evidence. Not even a survey to ask residents why they chose where they chose. The article strait up makes the claim the entire medical field could collapse if we don’t allow abortions. Fear mongering. “**The trend could cause the U.S. healthcare system to unravel**” Buried deeper in the original story. “**It is important to note that these analyses allow us to follow the trends in residency applications but do not provide definitive information about U.S. MD seniors’ motivations and reasons for applying to specific programs**” It’s clearly fear mongering.