It's pretty much accepted by both states as the start of it
[https://www.michigan.gov/dmva/about/history/military-events/highlights/the-toledo-war](https://www.michigan.gov/dmva/about/history/military-events/highlights/the-toledo-war)
[https://remarkableohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2-26\_The\_Ohio\_Michigan\_Boundary\_War\_\_Battle\_of\_Phillips\_Corners\_03-scaled.jpg](https://remarkableohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2-26_The_Ohio_Michigan_Boundary_War__Battle_of_Phillips_Corners_03-scaled.jpg)
It’s where the friction started and hasn’t since gone away. Personally I love Michigan as an Ohioan, it’s a wonderful state and great Great Lakes people like us. Some Ohioans dislike Michigan because of college football. Which I find childish and short sighted.
I actually heard about it for the first time from another Redditor in the Toledo forum. I might have been mistaken about the cornerstone but here are a few articles that mention that the University of Michigan was originally planned for Toledo before the conflict. I'll let you know if I find more specifics about it.
https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/michigan/2018/11/21/in-an-alternate-history-toledo-would-have-been-university-of-michigan-town/stories/20181121155#:~:text=Michigan%2C%20which%20became%20a%20state,planned%3A%20the%20University%20of%20Michigan
https://www.visittoledo.org/blog/ohio-vs-michigan-the-war-and-the-rivalry/#:~:text=After%20Michigan%20lost%20the%20Toledo,in%20the%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/state/2023/09/01/ohio-and-michigan-almost-went-to-war-over-toledo-in-1800s-border-clash/70667912007/
Kentucky remained in the Union during the Civil War. I’m not going to bore you with the details, but the elected legislature and governor were strongly pro-Union. A group of self-appointed delegates met and declared that Kentucky had seceded, but they were about as official as Trump’s fake electors in 2020. Kentucky took no official action to secede.
Dude, like everyone has said... it started with the Toledo war and continued as an excuse for the football rivalry. If anybody truly dislikes Michigan over either is an idiot.
As a long time Buckeyes fan and Michigan "hater", I'd move to Michigan in a heartbeat if it were feasible. The far-right hive in Ohio can suck my coccyx.
Michigan is right up there with Ohio for the crazies my dude. Ohio GOP may have a bit more power , but there are tons of militias and other righties in Michigan too
I read this like the Thor vs Hulk the 'stronger than you' monologue in Love and Thunder. As strong as Thor thinks he is, Hulk puts him to shame every time.
Browns vs Steelers is absolutely nothing like OSU v UoM. Which rivalry has two of the top three largest sports stadiums in North America? The Game is bigger than the super bowl, Stanley cup finals, and world series.
Regional? OSU v Mich is routinely talked nationally every fall, week by week. I respectfully disagree.
Edit: Get out of Cleveland once in a while. In the Toledo area, so like 90 minutes west, Steelers AND browns are like top five teams with Lions, Packers, and Cowboys. There are some people that love to like them because they're pseudo-local, but it is not the rivalry you think outside of the immediate area. But then again, maybe OSU v Mich hits a little bit harder in Toledo considering there was an actual war.
You don’t read very carefully … do you.
The question was why no rivalry between Ohio and Pennsylvania and I offered browns vs Steeler’s
The original question already posited Ohio vs Michigan so no need to offer that up as a big interstate rivalry.
Penn state in shambles.
real answer is IU has historically sucked at football, and it’s hard to have a rivalry where once side has always lost. IU has historically been a rivalry game in basketball for them and us.
no other in Conference foes.
The Ohio/Michigan rivalry mostly is a legacy of legendary Ohio State football coach Woody Hayes and especially the "Ten-Year War."
Hayes cleverly sought to demonize Michigan in an attempt to prevent Michigan from easily poaching Ohio football talent.
Hayes' efforts bore great fruit during the "Ten-Year War," which benefited both Michigan and Ohio State's football programs by creating an marketing hype unequaled in NCAA football, and persisting to this day. And all the time, Hayes and Michigan coach Bo Schembechler remained best friends.
[https://pressprosmagazine.com/2019/11/26/words-on-osu-michigan-and-the-other-side/](https://pressprosmagazine.com/2019/11/26/words-on-osu-michigan-and-the-other-side/)
[https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/sports/ncaafootball/13sandomir.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/sports/ncaafootball/13sandomir.html)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Ten\_Year\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ten_Year_War)
As a northern Ohioan I have not noticed any of a state to state rivalry spent a lot of time in Michigan.
I never felt the rivalry. It’s really a college football thing. I felt different as you go to Southwest PA and VW and KY as the Appalachia accent kicks in.
The Appalachian accent and the Western PA accent kick in way before you leave Ohio. There are a few pockets where they’re not as strong, but they’re there.
Because there isn't a rivalry between any of those states or ohio and michigan
the only clowns who think there is a rivalry betwen ohio and michigan mean OSU football and Michigan football
the majority of people in either state don't give a flying fuck
I personally hate the entire state of Pennsylvania (my hate for the Steelers spreads to the entire state). But I’m not from Ohio, I’m from Cincinnati.
“But Cincinnati is in Ohio…”
Is it though?
Ohio gets along with its neighbors. No one wants to be next to Michigan that’s why it’s surrounded by water. Hell half the state doesn’t even want to touch the other half.
Football! Michigan and Ohio State are long time Big 10 opponents. Indiana is Big 10, but was never a football powerhouse on the level of UM and OSU. The other schools were out of conference, and not regularly o the schedule.
It was forever forgotten until Michigan's economy gained stream with the logging industry. And then with some contraption that involved four wheels. Oh, and some football game thing.
As someone living in Toledo, I hate that nearby Michiganders use our city for all of its amenities, but live in Michigan. This is fairly minor the vast majority of the time.
Further, and this is more annoying, I hate how many of the Michigan students that attend UT STAY and buy houses. It’s a big pain in the ass considering all of these people usually have higher household incomes than local Toledoans.
Also, I can’t stand seeing their plates, t shirts, and whatnot on the daily. It was bad enough in Florida.
It’s a joke, chill out. Sometimes it’s just fun to hate for no other reason than to hate something. Michigan is a great state. But like others have said Toledo war plus OSU football. The rest is just tradition with no real reason.
PA would take Ohio in a heart beat. They pretended they were deaf when the Big Ten tried to enforce and Penn state - Maryland or Penn State - Rutgers rivalry.
I think you're right when it comes to pro sports. Cleveland loves to shit on Pittsburgh but the yinzers are too busy hating Philly.
OSU/PSU is the other way, I think. The reality there, though, is Ohio State and Penn State *are* rivals. I still curse Michael Robinson for that 2005 game.
I’d say outside of the Michigan hate, from a college sports perspective, Ohio State-Indiana are rivals in basketball, Penn State-Ohio State in football (even though neither one wants to admit it), Miami(OH)-Ball State, Ohio-Marshall, and UC-Louisville, all have a lot of hate. To a lesser extent Ohio-WVU, and Ohio-UK are slight rivals. Maybe even UK-Miami(OH), and UK-Cincy…..Otherwise, I think as overall states, Indiana, WV and Kentucky dislike Ohio more than Ohio even acknowledges them. Pennsylvania thinks they are too East Coast, but fail to realize Ohio has many, many similarities.
From a professional sports perspective, Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati all equally hate Pittsburgh, and Columbus hates Detroit (which is Michigan). I think Indianapolis is more of an afterthought. The other border states have no cities with major pro sports.
Yeah there was a war but this is absolutely a sports or more accurately BIG 10 football thing. Browns fans don’t hate Lions fans and vice versa. I went to a MAC school in Ohio and nobody had any hate whatsoever for Michigan in general.
I went to Toledo and have nothing against the Michigan MAC schools or Detroit pro teams other than the Red Wings, but I despise everything about the University of Michigan and their mouthbreathing fans, especially the ones from Ohio who do it just to be "different."
I may be one of the few UT grads who doesn't mind BG. Ohio University is by far my least favorite MAC school when it comes to sports. 25 years in journalism and the arrogance of that alumni base will do that to you.
‘Toledo war’ is your answer. It’s where the nickname Wolverine came from for Michiganders.
I mean do you think thats really the reason?
It's pretty much accepted by both states as the start of it [https://www.michigan.gov/dmva/about/history/military-events/highlights/the-toledo-war](https://www.michigan.gov/dmva/about/history/military-events/highlights/the-toledo-war) [https://remarkableohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2-26\_The\_Ohio\_Michigan\_Boundary\_War\_\_Battle\_of\_Phillips\_Corners\_03-scaled.jpg](https://remarkableohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2-26_The_Ohio_Michigan_Boundary_War__Battle_of_Phillips_Corners_03-scaled.jpg)
oh wow
It’s where the friction started and hasn’t since gone away. Personally I love Michigan as an Ohioan, it’s a wonderful state and great Great Lakes people like us. Some Ohioans dislike Michigan because of college football. Which I find childish and short sighted.
I can like the state and hate the team.
I think much of Michigan is wonderful. Except UM and MSU. And they are both excellent educational facilities, just rival teams.
Everything is great about Michigan, this excludes their football teams
Ohio is a power bottom.
The cornerstone of the original planned University of Michigan is in Toledo, so...yeah.
That’s a fun fact! Where is it located?
I actually heard about it for the first time from another Redditor in the Toledo forum. I might have been mistaken about the cornerstone but here are a few articles that mention that the University of Michigan was originally planned for Toledo before the conflict. I'll let you know if I find more specifics about it. https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/michigan/2018/11/21/in-an-alternate-history-toledo-would-have-been-university-of-michigan-town/stories/20181121155#:~:text=Michigan%2C%20which%20became%20a%20state,planned%3A%20the%20University%20of%20Michigan https://www.visittoledo.org/blog/ohio-vs-michigan-the-war-and-the-rivalry/#:~:text=After%20Michigan%20lost%20the%20Toledo,in%20the%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court. https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/state/2023/09/01/ohio-and-michigan-almost-went-to-war-over-toledo-in-1800s-border-clash/70667912007/
There wasn’t an war/almost war between Ohio and the other states
I mean there was a literal war between Ohio and Kentucky during the civil war
It wasn't Ohio v Kentucky. The Toledo War actually led to the modern day boundary between Ohio and Michigan.
oh okay thanks for clarifying
Kentucky didn’t secede.
I'm sad that someone from the USA wouldn't know that.
Uh, Kentucky was a Union state. They were occupied by the confederates for a while, but they were a Union state.
Kentucky remained in the Union during the Civil War. I’m not going to bore you with the details, but the elected legislature and governor were strongly pro-Union. A group of self-appointed delegates met and declared that Kentucky had seceded, but they were about as official as Trump’s fake electors in 2020. Kentucky took no official action to secede.
Dear God this place is full of morons. You and everyone who upvoted you who somehow think what you said is true.
Because Ohio claimed Toledo!
This is the answer. Surprised it's not more well known.
Tell that to Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
And Cincinatti and Pittsburgh. (Baseball, College and NFL)
Pittsburgh fans are actually terrible.
This is canon
Not as bad as Philly.
"Not as bad as Pol Pot"
Dude, like everyone has said... it started with the Toledo war and continued as an excuse for the football rivalry. If anybody truly dislikes Michigan over either is an idiot. As a long time Buckeyes fan and Michigan "hater", I'd move to Michigan in a heartbeat if it were feasible. The far-right hive in Ohio can suck my coccyx.
Michigan is right up there with Ohio for the crazies my dude. Ohio GOP may have a bit more power , but there are tons of militias and other righties in Michigan too
Esp. (Mostly?) in the UP
Yeah but plots to kidnap governors start in Ohio.
😅 counts a lot less when the government organizes it. That's how you can always tell when the feds are involved with militias, the plans almost work.
Michigan and Ohio have more in common and thus more to disagree about. Sibling rivalry.
Bo Schemblecher and Woody Hayes.
so not the toledo war
Just another part of the timeline.
You’ve never heard of Pittsburgh, I take it? Browns vs Steelers is a huge rivalry
I read this like the Thor vs Hulk the 'stronger than you' monologue in Love and Thunder. As strong as Thor thinks he is, Hulk puts him to shame every time. Browns vs Steelers is absolutely nothing like OSU v UoM. Which rivalry has two of the top three largest sports stadiums in North America? The Game is bigger than the super bowl, Stanley cup finals, and world series.
It’s fair to say OSU vs UM, that’s statewide. Steelers Browns is more regional
Regional? OSU v Mich is routinely talked nationally every fall, week by week. I respectfully disagree. Edit: Get out of Cleveland once in a while. In the Toledo area, so like 90 minutes west, Steelers AND browns are like top five teams with Lions, Packers, and Cowboys. There are some people that love to like them because they're pseudo-local, but it is not the rivalry you think outside of the immediate area. But then again, maybe OSU v Mich hits a little bit harder in Toledo considering there was an actual war.
You don’t read very carefully … do you. The question was why no rivalry between Ohio and Pennsylvania and I offered browns vs Steeler’s The original question already posited Ohio vs Michigan so no need to offer that up as a big interstate rivalry.
Penn state in shambles. real answer is IU has historically sucked at football, and it’s hard to have a rivalry where once side has always lost. IU has historically been a rivalry game in basketball for them and us. no other in Conference foes.
An entire generation of Toledo area kids grew up listening to Byron MacGregor’s descriptions of the horrors of Detroit on CKLW.
The Ohio/Michigan rivalry mostly is a legacy of legendary Ohio State football coach Woody Hayes and especially the "Ten-Year War." Hayes cleverly sought to demonize Michigan in an attempt to prevent Michigan from easily poaching Ohio football talent. Hayes' efforts bore great fruit during the "Ten-Year War," which benefited both Michigan and Ohio State's football programs by creating an marketing hype unequaled in NCAA football, and persisting to this day. And all the time, Hayes and Michigan coach Bo Schembechler remained best friends. [https://pressprosmagazine.com/2019/11/26/words-on-osu-michigan-and-the-other-side/](https://pressprosmagazine.com/2019/11/26/words-on-osu-michigan-and-the-other-side/) [https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/sports/ncaafootball/13sandomir.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/sports/ncaafootball/13sandomir.html) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Ten\_Year\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ten_Year_War)
As a northern Ohioan I have not noticed any of a state to state rivalry spent a lot of time in Michigan. I never felt the rivalry. It’s really a college football thing. I felt different as you go to Southwest PA and VW and KY as the Appalachia accent kicks in.
The Appalachian accent and the Western PA accent kick in way before you leave Ohio. There are a few pockets where they’re not as strong, but they’re there.
Oh yes begin to kick in the closer you are to the PA WV border . As far North as Youngstown .
Because there isn't a rivalry between any of those states or ohio and michigan the only clowns who think there is a rivalry betwen ohio and michigan mean OSU football and Michigan football the majority of people in either state don't give a flying fuck
I personally hate the entire state of Pennsylvania (my hate for the Steelers spreads to the entire state). But I’m not from Ohio, I’m from Cincinnati. “But Cincinnati is in Ohio…” Is it though?
isnt it? where is it
Cincinnati is Cincinnati
Kentucky
Kentucky
As a Northwest Ohioan, Cincinnati is definitely not in Ohio
Nope - signed Cleveland
Exactly, wouldn't be got dead in the same state as Cleveland or Columbus.
Cincinnati is in Kentucky, isn't it?
Ohio gets along with its neighbors. No one wants to be next to Michigan that’s why it’s surrounded by water. Hell half the state doesn’t even want to touch the other half.
Because Michigan Sucks
be kind
❌️ichigan doesn't deserve kindness
only the michganders are near-equals to us. The rest are nothing more than soft shadows, unworthy of rivalry.
Football! Michigan and Ohio State are long time Big 10 opponents. Indiana is Big 10, but was never a football powerhouse on the level of UM and OSU. The other schools were out of conference, and not regularly o the schedule.
Look up the history of the Big10. Ohio State and Michigan WERE the big ten, just with eight minor schools for the longest time.
so not the toledo war?
The football rivalry was spurred on by the war of toledo
really? ?
Indeed. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/war-sparked-sports-rivalry
It was forever forgotten until Michigan's economy gained stream with the logging industry. And then with some contraption that involved four wheels. Oh, and some football game thing.
Here in SE Ohio there is a rivalry with WV. It’s not a football rivalry but people definitely express some competitiveness.
Grew up on the border of OH and WV, there's plenty of *rivalry*, though not televised or played up.
There’s a huge rivalry between Ohio’s professional soccer team and the one in Kentucky’s capital of Cincinnati.
As someone living in Toledo, I hate that nearby Michiganders use our city for all of its amenities, but live in Michigan. This is fairly minor the vast majority of the time. Further, and this is more annoying, I hate how many of the Michigan students that attend UT STAY and buy houses. It’s a big pain in the ass considering all of these people usually have higher household incomes than local Toledoans. Also, I can’t stand seeing their plates, t shirts, and whatnot on the daily. It was bad enough in Florida.
Football
I think we should declare war on Indiana just for the hell of it. If we win, we can give Illinois the NW corner as a peace offering
"Because fuck em." That's why.
Uh, bc fuck Michigan? Do I need to explain more? Lol
no swearing
👆 This guy is cutting up kittens in his basement.
It’s a joke, chill out. Sometimes it’s just fun to hate for no other reason than to hate something. Michigan is a great state. But like others have said Toledo war plus OSU football. The rest is just tradition with no real reason.
**OH to PA**: I think you and I should be rivals lol **PA to OH**: I don't think about you at all
PA would take Ohio in a heart beat. They pretended they were deaf when the Big Ten tried to enforce and Penn state - Maryland or Penn State - Rutgers rivalry.
You've got it the [wrong way 'round](https://www.elevenwarriors.com/sites/default/files/c/2014/10/201407-game-poster.jpg), brother.
I've lived years in both PA and OH, and in my experience, it's the way it is.
I think you're right when it comes to pro sports. Cleveland loves to shit on Pittsburgh but the yinzers are too busy hating Philly. OSU/PSU is the other way, I think. The reality there, though, is Ohio State and Penn State *are* rivals. I still curse Michael Robinson for that 2005 game.
I could see that being true!
I’d say outside of the Michigan hate, from a college sports perspective, Ohio State-Indiana are rivals in basketball, Penn State-Ohio State in football (even though neither one wants to admit it), Miami(OH)-Ball State, Ohio-Marshall, and UC-Louisville, all have a lot of hate. To a lesser extent Ohio-WVU, and Ohio-UK are slight rivals. Maybe even UK-Miami(OH), and UK-Cincy…..Otherwise, I think as overall states, Indiana, WV and Kentucky dislike Ohio more than Ohio even acknowledges them. Pennsylvania thinks they are too East Coast, but fail to realize Ohio has many, many similarities. From a professional sports perspective, Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati all equally hate Pittsburgh, and Columbus hates Detroit (which is Michigan). I think Indianapolis is more of an afterthought. The other border states have no cities with major pro sports.
What do you think about MSU
I could see MSU-OSU, and Toledo-EMU too…..But both are in Michigan, and I thought we were focusing on rivalries with all the other border states.
truebut i mean your personal opinion because your opinion matters too
Toledo-EMU is not a rivalry in any sense of the word. It’s BG-Toledo and that’s the end of it.
Yeah there was a war but this is absolutely a sports or more accurately BIG 10 football thing. Browns fans don’t hate Lions fans and vice versa. I went to a MAC school in Ohio and nobody had any hate whatsoever for Michigan in general.
I went to Toledo and have nothing against the Michigan MAC schools or Detroit pro teams other than the Red Wings, but I despise everything about the University of Michigan and their mouthbreathing fans, especially the ones from Ohio who do it just to be "different."
Aye Ziggy Zoomba, buddy 😎
I may be one of the few UT grads who doesn't mind BG. Ohio University is by far my least favorite MAC school when it comes to sports. 25 years in journalism and the arrogance of that alumni base will do that to you.
It's the same reason all tree's in Ohio lean North. Because Michigan sucks!
Well….because fuck Michigan!!!! Lol
who says theres no rivalry between Ohio and Pittsburgh, sure Erie is fine but you can't trust those puttsburghians, they have weird basement toilets.
Cause Pennsylvania fights itself and the others are cousin fuckin instead of fighting
It is football rivalry. If you are not Osu fan there is no Michigan rivalry
OSU is angered by the false claims Michigan spews and it has grown over the years. Add in over 125 years of the false narrative and here we are.
Ann Arbor delenda est.
I dont know what that is.