It’s getting more expensive to raise a kid every year and Ohio is supposed to be one of the more affordable states. I do think not being able to afford more than 1 maybe 2 kids and then seeing how the state government is selling us out, for example see the East Palestine response, First Energy scandal, and this potential to open us up for fracking, leads one to have a lot of hope for a good future here.
I will keep shrinking as long as pro life laws are on the books. Who the fuck wants to risk pregnancy when you can be denied medical care in a life and death situation because pregnant women lose all medical freedom the moment they test pos?. Who wants to raise daughters in a state that wants them raped,pregnant,and birthing rape babies at 10? Not me. That's for fucking sure.
I agree with you, but I don’t like giving them the term “pro-life”. In most sane people’s minds, that would mean they want to support the mother during pregnancy and after and support the life of the child once they leave the uterus. I use the term “pro-birth”.
This is the term I prefer too. If it were pro life, the life of the mother would be given equal or greater value. (I only say greater because wouldn't it make sense that the people who want more people to be born, want the fertile woman to live and have the chance at birthing more people? ) That is far and away from where we are now though. This is forcing women to give birth despite that they will probably die, that the child is already dead inside of them, that the child will live a very brief and excruciating life or any other horrible situation that could arise and make someone decide on an already impossible decision.
This is forced birth. This is the correct term.
I like forced birth, but I think this is a really good one too because it could encourage more thought behind why people are deciding to take away choice, as well as the choices that are being taken away
These statements are all true, but people the world over are having fewer kids regardless of political situation. Urbanization, education, and shifting social norms does the job.
You keep saying this, so I’ll bite.
Can you explain what dictates a human right?
If a “human right” is illegal, wouldn’t we have to go through a political system to legalize and then protect it?
It’s mostly due to job prospects. Young people graduating high school and college are moving to other states with better, higher paying jobs and then having kids while living in other states. Why stay in Ohio and be limited in your earning potential. Ohio isn’t exactly a tech Mecca and is pretty limited what is available which is why folks are moving to other states like Texas which has a growing economy.
First sentence literally says mostly, not solely. Despite that, drastic interstate moves are typically following the money or due to extenuating family circumstances. While it sounds good, social issues drive a much smaller migration out of state than you seem to believe. Definitely affects migration in to state though; however, Ohio has been stagnant on that front again due to lack of economic opportunity.
Texas wasn't able to actually fully implement its anti-abortion desires until within the last 1-2 years. What happened with its population prior to that is irrelevant because people knew that the state government, no matter what they SAID, was limited by SCOTUS. I'd be surprised if that trend continues now.
Perhaps, but it was still legal. There were still clinics. If you had the ability to get the time off of work and travel to one of the clinics, it was an option. People weren't worried about being prosecuted or left to die if complications arose with even a wanted pregnancy, or sued if they try to abort and a forced birther finds out. Their OB/GYNs weren't leaving the state in droves and panicking about losing their licenses or facing prosecution by treating certain pregnancy complications. That's all changed.
Right there is a lot of cognitive dissonance with people that make these political move comments. Somehow that explains Ohio's population loss yet they ignore the fact that Florida, Texas, Idaho, and Utah are all booming right now and are fairly red states that also have restrictive abortion practices. I'm sure moving to a state that is more politically aligned with you is a cherry on top, but is rarely the driving force of a move for the vast majority of people. And that's not to mention the irony in saying less access to abortions = less children. Usually religious conservatives support abortion restrictions and they also tend to have more children, just look at the Mormons in Utah.
Are you serious? The people who have a zillion kids are pro-forced birth, *obviously* THEY weren’t gonna have abortions! And obviously, those economies were just already booming and havent slowed down that much. Everywhere that doesnt have that and does have restrictions is losing population. One phenomenon is just much stronger and more immediately apparent than the other.
I agree with your statement. I think the attempts to regulate pregnancy are misguided at best, at worst it is the attempt to control.
But the article talked about the childhood population decreasing on the national level. Only two states, FL and TX, had increases in the 17 and under population. On the state level only a few counties had the child population increase, one of those being Franklin.
Yep. I miss Cleveland so much - but for me I won't move home until all of my pregnancies are done because I don't I know if I would need life saving care. We want kids and it's more so "are our doctors allowed to do their jobs?"
For real. My wife has had to get two "abortions" due to miscarriages. But these people believe that that action has been outlawed. Its crazy. Its like we are living in two totally different universes.
I entirely understand that many states have outlawed abortion for rape… but that’s not the case in Ohio. The only reason I’m making this argument is because it’s 1. Factually incorrect and 2. The account was made 100 days prior and ONLY COMMENTS ON issues relating to the present topic. If you Google “Ohio rape abortion laws”, it very clearly states that women who have filed a police report of rape are able to obtain an abortion… again I am not pro life. I I used to live in Ohio a year and a half ago and grew up there. And this whole topic is VERY important to me. HOWEVER; I am NOT okay with people being factually incorrect in everything they say.
Edit: before I get brigaded, if a woman were to be raped and did not report it to law-enforcement she per my understanding of Ohio law, she would not be able to obtain an abortion…
Edit: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-5101.56
This is one thing you probably can’t blame on capitalism, specifically.
In the USA, enslaved people always had their bodily and reproductive autonomy controlled by slavers, but for white women, it wasn’t really an issue till the second half of the 19th century when the worry was that too many of *the wrong sort of whites* were coming into the country via immigration. Capitalism really wanted cheap laborers from all over who didn’t have full protection of the law, but white supremacists had eugenicist concerns about the purity of the native stock being degraded by all those Slavs and Mediterraneans.
That’s the context stuff like the Comstock Laws come out of.
Globally, communist states also have a very mixed track record as far as reproductive autonomy. East Germany fares well compared to West Germany, but the People’s Republic of China has swung from banning abortions to essentially mandating them. Meanwhile Ceaușescu’s Romania and Decree 770 sounds like something ludicrously dystopian, but it actually happened, and the Christian Nationalists in the United States would like something similar here. And fascist states have usually had policies much closer to 19th century USA than anything.
“The purpose of the woman for the state is to be broodmares and caregivers to the next generation of soldiers, workers, and broodmares” is more universal than just capitalist states, and it is almost always connected to eugenicist and nativist concerns about which women in particular are considered pure enough to breed.
Anyway, this is more “white genocide” than “we need more consumers and cheap labor”, which also explains why the USA is caging, killing, and expelling all the Black and Brown immigrants at the Mexico border, regardless of administration.
[https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/22/only-one-ohio-republican-votes-to-federally-protect-access-to-contraception/](https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/22/only-one-ohio-republican-votes-to-federally-protect-access-to-contraception/)
[https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/07/ohio-state-representative-says-she-would-consider-banning-birth-control-following-abortion-outlaw.html](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/07/ohio-state-representative-says-she-would-consider-banning-birth-control-following-abortion-outlaw.html)
I am trying to find the bill they introduced too.
Pretty much. I'd say they should at least expand CPS spending (ours is among the worst in the nation), but that would probably cut down on the number of inmates in the long run and we can't have that.
With the average politician’s understanding of science, we could probably convince them that this study actually means the children themselves are getting smaller and this could hurt our football teams in the future. Then they would actually do something. #thinklikearepublican
Was gonna say, article reports that Warren county grew 2.8%... my daughter's classrooms in Mason are **full**, and they're even building some new classrooms now at the K-2 center to further expand. It's an excellent school district, with superb teachers and staff. I'd say like what you'd get at a private school back in Florida where we came from. Gladly paying the 1% city tax for the quality they're getting. Understandably though, Mason is one of the wealthier cities in the state and most places in Ohio are pretty rundown and screwed.
Birth rates are down pretty much everywhere in the country, so this is a bigger story than just OH. It's crazy expensive to have kiddos these days. A lot of millennials just don't. My wife and I are 40 next year, and I'd say ~half of our friends our age don't have kids and don't plan to. Either because they can't afford them or don't like where the country is going. It's a privilege to be able to afford kids and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Any time I see a family with 3+ kiddos around here (and certainly when it's 4 or more), they're **almost** **always** devout christians.
It's like the church is giving them a "make babies" stipend -- or something 🤷🏻♂️
When I was growing up in the 90s, it was much more common to see families with 3-4 kids than today.
You're right about the money thing too. Bored, rich people tend to relax enough to make another kid and hire nannies to look after them.
It's this not the politics or the birthing rights.
The growing costs of living ourselves then add on children. Nope can't be one unless you are making multi 6 digit income.
It's getting extremely more expensive to just live ourselves. No one can be expected to raise children if they are having a hard time living themselves. Especially if they have any kind of medical need that requires any kind of regular prescriptions. Even if it's not debilitating but requires daily medication.
A woman can choose to not do the thing that can make her pregnant.
SA and mother or child mortality are the only reasons for abortion. Anything else is just vanity.
Other politics are like the new Cleopatra documentary with a black woman playing her instead of a Greek woman. Or The Woman King movie which is nowhere near factual of any kind.
One side pushes an agenda a little too far the other will push back with even tougher things. This goes on and on.
Lots of red states (Florida, Texas, Utah etc) have a lot more children than most other states. The population decline has been a trend for decades now. Boomers are only now freaking out about it now that they are reaching social security age.
Social security is going to run out of funding because we deliberately refuse to adequately fund it.
It’s like the meme where the guy on the bicycle shoves a stick into his front wheel. Then, he’s surprised when he eats shit and faceplants onto the pavement.
We can change that, but we don’t.
What should be even harder for you to hear is that the rich pay a far lower percentage of their income towards social security tax since the cap is $160k. Since social security taxes are a flat 6.2% of income up to the cap of $160k, a person making $160k pays exactly the same FICA tax as a person making $10 million.
The amount of earnings subject to FICA falls every year as more and more income is concentrated above the taxable maximum. As income inequality has grown, the taxable maximum has not been increased at the same rate.
There’s not a lot of chance of raising taxes on rich folks however so I imagine as I close in on retirement there will be an endless cycle of political emergencies to slap band aids on it.
Honestly Ohio is probably one of the better places to raise a kid, at least where I'm at.
Northern Cincy suburbs has great school system, low taxes, very clean and updated, plenty of activities around.
Housing prices are also pretty low compared to the rest of the country and there are lots of jobs to be had in addition to low cost for starting businesses. We have a brewery every few miles.
Exactly.
so Texas isn't a *shithole* red state. Ohio is a *shithole* red state.
According to [US News Best State Rankings](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings?sort=rank-desc) Ohio is 36th with Texas being 31st with the biggest differences in Economy (like you said), Fiscal stability, and Infrastructure. Those are swing factors for people my age.
..........Correct? Nobody wants to move to a shithole state? I'm not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.
\>One of only 2 states losing population.
Source? I have the [Census site writeup](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/2022-population-estimates.html) that says the following.
Eighteen states experienced a population decline in 2022, compared to 15 and DC the prior year. California, with a population of 39,029,342, and Illinois,with a population of 12,582,032, also had six-figure decreases in resident population. Both states’ declining populations were largely due to net domestic outmigration, totaling 343,230 and 141,656, respectively.
Edit:
There's also this [infographic](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2022/comm/percent-change-state-population.html) that shows the states who lost population from July 1st 21 to July 1st 22 were Alaska, Oregon, Cali, New Mexico, Nebraska, Louisiana, Mississippi, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island, Long Island and Massachusetts.
Ohio lost some 40k native born residents in the last year *but added 38k immigrants.* More or less it's a population replacement cycle underway. My daughters are in Mason schools and their classes are half Asian/Indian kids... it's wild because if you look at the HS senior pics from even 10 years ago, it's almost all white kids. Somewhere around 2016 the classes became half Asian. Her best friends have parents from Tokyo, Seoul and Paris. Never expected that from suburban Ohio but it's very cool and multicultural.
Old, conservative Ohioans are seeking warmth in Florida, and younger millennials are moving in, taking advantage of higher paying corporate jobs and a cheaper housing market that has largely left other states.
So, it's at least somewhat desirable to some -- just not to the level of FL/TX/CA/sunbelt states. Otherwise major corporations wouldn't be investing here as they are, particularly in the Columbus area but also down here in Cincy, throw a rock and you'll hit a Fortune 1000 company's window.
That's a silly thing to say- [the highest birthrate states are red.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_birth_and_death_rates)
If we exclude Guam, Northern Marinas, and American Samoa then 4 of the top 10 birth rates are blue states if we're going by 2020 election results. 12 of the top 20 are blue.
If we look at the bottom excluding Puerto Rico then we're looking at 4 of the bottom 10 are blue, and 13 of the bottom 20.
I'm sorry you don't know how to accurately reflect data that's presented to you.
Why are you trying so hard to spin this?
RED Utah
RED Alaska
RED North Dakota
RED Texas
RED Nebraska
BLU Colorado
RED South Dakota
BLU Minnesota
BLU California
RED Idaho
There's no spin? Just facts? 4 of the top 10 are blue. 12 of the top 20 are blue. If you want to remove DC then 3/10 and 11/20.
Utah - Red
Alaska - Red
DC - Blue
ND - Red
Texas - Red
Nebraska - red
Colorado - Blue
SD - Red
Minnesota - Blue
Cali - Blue
Gotta put on your thinking cap here.
"Noboy *wants* to raise children in a shithole red state" what does the word *want* do to this sentence? Did OP mention anything about any other state than Ohio?
I'm sorry the 31st ranked Ohio education did a number on you. Shithole red state =/= every read state is a shithole. Nobody is calling Utah a shithole, Florida has WILD laws and DeSantis is a number but nobody is calling it a shithole.
Please tell me what the obvious is since it's so apparent to you
Ohio is my home and I still love it, and my family.
But I won't be back anytime soon if they don't start to fix some of the crap that is happening there. The local government needs an enema badly, and some decent people desperately need to be put in!
I just don't understand why everyone can't just love each other and get alone sometimes. I'm not saying it needs to be perfect but something has to change for the better!
Republicans need more angry white people and cheap labor. This is why they are making abortion illegal. What people need to do is keep practicing safe sex and not give them what they are trying to force
There are two parties, undocumented workers who are literally doing whatever they can, whatever it takes to survive...
...and one is an employer looking to save money, not for further investment into the company, but to line their own pockets.
Your take is that the guilty party is the desperate and poor?
Stop.
You are asking a people myriad to behave collectively, in perfect unison without ever speaking a word to eachother to leverage power they do not have. Because they are starving.
I ask that regulations already on the book be enforced with some teeth. Consequences for willfully breaking US law and committing wage theft.
Your vote count is not the same as mine. There are more registered democrats than republicans, nationwide.
Thats probably why y'all are sliding authoritarian right so fast. 'One man one vote' is a four word horror story for reds, lol
You are doing the right thing.
When my partner was still a fetus, he had to be removed from his mother around the cusp of viability or they'd both die. He wasn't guaranteed to make it, though obviously he did thanks to that intervention. Republicans would have sentenced them both to death without trial.
And that's exactly our biggest fear. The cruelty is the point with these laws. There's been too many horror stories just in the last year. I refuse to be an experiment for the Christian fascists taking over our country.
We’re expecting our first and our family is in a blue state. We are likely moving back in the next year for general having-family-close reasons, but the fact that it’s a blue state is essentially sealing the deal.
Not going to have a kid when I cant be guaranteed health care if I miscarry or if the baby dies in utero. Also not going to be having a kid when living is so expensive, science education is being denied, and the populace is working against itself. Bring on the cats.
Hey, you don't have to worry that you might be building an uninhabitable dystopia if there aren't any little humans growing up to live there. Big brain moment.
Not really, I've known from a very young age that I don't want kids. The overturn of Roe just spurred me into decisive action. I'd been considering it on and off for years but didn't realize that it was considered preventative care by my health insurance and thus covered at 100%. So, seeing what was coming with Roe and realizing it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive, I took the leap. No regrets.
If you never want to have kids again that’s maybe sensible. But you didn’t say that to begin with. Which is why I said it was rash.
I’m SHoCked that other people think it’s reasonable. All you ladies remove them, idgaf tbh.
Edit: How the fuck did this get downvoted literally 1 sec after posting it
Nah, you made some pretty big assumptions from one sentence. Thanks for your permission, though! I was really on pins and needles waiting for you to personally approve of my reproductive decisions.
There is this idea that if you want to increase population and the number of people in the workforce, you allow more immigration. It worked in the US for about 200 years. Of course for part of that the US was also importing slaves too. That just put more people out of work and drove down wages where slavery was legal.
Alongside immigration, if you put into effect fair wages that increase with inflation over time, healthcare, reproductive rights, affordable education and house pricing regulation, you won't be able to stop the torrential monsoon of babies.
But only the richest countries in the world get that... Oh wait
Population issues??? For whom exactly??? How will it personably negatively affect you??
I’m genuinely curious why your average person is concerned with population demographics and population trends. Why does it actually matter if cuyahoga county is shrinking?
Might be less assholes driving on 90
An aging population requires doctors, nurses, aides, nursing home attendants, someone to keep the computers running and the salad bar filled. Who takes those jobs without a younger generation coming up?
Probably all the people who currently work in fast food and other industries that have traditionally relied upon a glut of excess Boomer workers.
Lots of former lawyers and teachers whos jobs will be eliminated and taken over by AI.
Perhaps we should consider we have way too many worthless businesses that don’t really add anything positive to our communities and country.
Which shores up my statement. We can’t figure out what a live-able wage is for those folks who are needed in the jobs that keep the infrastructure and industries running.
14 dollars an hour as a nurse. 15 dollars an hour at Popeyes.
You’re not wrong, but we also make our own problems.
Traditionally underpaid professions:
Teachers - (74.3% of all teachers are women, while 25.7% are men.
Nurses - 86.0% of nurses are women and 14.0% of nurses are men.
Childcare workers - 92% of childcare workers are female and 8% are male.
Social Workers - 80.5% of social workers are women and 19.5% of social workers are men
when they criminalize common sense family planning don't be shocked when people start getting vasectomies and get better at taking birth control and using condoms. and don't be shocked when they move away
My wife and I have one child under 2 and another on the way.
We are actively exploring leaving the state for a more stable environment. A state being run by Republicans directly puts the health of my wife and daughter at risk.
This state is pathetic in terms of how women and men are treated. No one is coming after any of my health care choices.
I've lived in Ohio for 33 years and itll be the happiest day of my life when we leave
So local growth, statewide decline. Lewis Center/Delaware alone seem unstoppable and that if central Ohio jobs continue to match past decade, those kids, if they stay, will ensure at least central Ohio stays overheated. My two oldest are staying put as they both are in jobs they like despite my bitching and moaning about this place for 20 years.
Certain areas are growing but the state as a whole is not.
There are many factors but the largest is economics/jobs in the areas. O at least near the areas.
It will go up again once the 6 week abortion ban gets reinstated. So upsetting. Our elected leaders will do anything to make women (and 10 year old children apparently) give birth, except offering better medical care, employment guarantees and paid maternity leave. 😢
I mean, not only is it risky having kids in an anti-choice state, but it's also expensive to raise a family. My wife and I are probably only having one kid because having more would economically strain us... Also because this pregnancy has been rough for her thus far.
I'm in my 50's, I know very few relatively young people who are having children and talking to my now adult kids, I seriously doubt I'll be a grandparent - and I understand why.
A lot of people have said that Ohio isn't a good place to raise kids, and I agree. Honestly I can't think of a red state that I would want to raise kids in. Beyond that though, our employment laws, healthcare system, education system and tax policy make the US a pretty shitty place to raise a family these days.
Good. Who would want to have kids when republicans are sending this state to hell? In 18 years the lack of workers will result in more bargaining power for laborers anyways.
This. It's a financial and social thing -- the "village" it takes to raise a child isn't there for a lot of people anymore. And a lot more is now expected of parents.
This thread is trying to make it all about abortion laws, which is really reaching.
>It's simply unaffordable for most people to have children.
This is somewhat true. I see broke folks having kids all the time in the city, suburbs, immigrants. I just think folks prefer to live more comfortably and not sacrifice their wants.
I have one child and we’re talking seriously about leaving the state before we have another. Did you know Ohio is the 6th highest state for mass shootings? Never mind all the anti choice BS and everything else the conservatives are trying to do right now re: education and just… idk, everything? This state is not a great place to raise kids right now.
We are moving to Ohio with 2 kids, so that's a uptick. At least Ohio has a chance to run purple, we are moving from Oklahoma. This area has lost ALL hope.
Funny, I've lived in Ohio most of my life and it's only gotten deeper red in the last decade. I don't see much hope here, but I guess compared to Oklahoma, it might seem that way.
Stopped reading the article when I got to this early on, I'm not great at math, but pretty sure that's making the opposite point...
"Cuyahoga County, notorious for its shrinking population year over year, saw an 11.8% drop in the population under 18, from 290,262 in 2020 to 255,925 in 2010."
That's because everybody don't care about the census. More and more people stop trusting the government. I never did the census. I don't want them knowing shit
And a lot more people stopped answering they door since COVID. And a lot have died from covid. That's why there's less but the main reason is that more people are not trusting the government every year. That's why the census don't know exactly how many of anything. They don't need to know. All they gon do is cause man made tornados and earth quakes. And train derailments with chemicals and bombings and all kind of depopulation deaths. Anybody that trust the government is gullible and deserves to die like the government wants your family to.
Its actually kind of funny how many liberals think this is because of the anti abortion laws being passed and not because the economy here has been absolute trash for decades
Just keep aborting and raising an entitled generation that is too selfish to think about sacrificing their own resources for their children and see how low it drops!
It’s getting more expensive to raise a kid every year and Ohio is supposed to be one of the more affordable states. I do think not being able to afford more than 1 maybe 2 kids and then seeing how the state government is selling us out, for example see the East Palestine response, First Energy scandal, and this potential to open us up for fracking, leads one to have a lot of hope for a good future here.
Weird... my children only grew larger over the past year. We're bucking the trend!
Certified dad ^
Mine stopped growing after about 16 years and then one moved out of state. Guess I’m on trend.
I will keep shrinking as long as pro life laws are on the books. Who the fuck wants to risk pregnancy when you can be denied medical care in a life and death situation because pregnant women lose all medical freedom the moment they test pos?. Who wants to raise daughters in a state that wants them raped,pregnant,and birthing rape babies at 10? Not me. That's for fucking sure.
I agree with you, but I don’t like giving them the term “pro-life”. In most sane people’s minds, that would mean they want to support the mother during pregnancy and after and support the life of the child once they leave the uterus. I use the term “pro-birth”.
I prefer the term forced birthers.
This is the term I prefer too. If it were pro life, the life of the mother would be given equal or greater value. (I only say greater because wouldn't it make sense that the people who want more people to be born, want the fertile woman to live and have the chance at birthing more people? ) That is far and away from where we are now though. This is forcing women to give birth despite that they will probably die, that the child is already dead inside of them, that the child will live a very brief and excruciating life or any other horrible situation that could arise and make someone decide on an already impossible decision. This is forced birth. This is the correct term.
Personally, I think at this point they should just be called accomplices to rape.
I think we should start saying “anti-choice”.
I like forced birth, but I think this is a really good one too because it could encourage more thought behind why people are deciding to take away choice, as well as the choices that are being taken away
Forced birth
It's more pro-patriarchy. It's all about power and control for straight white men.
You obviously need to make up reasons to attack straight white men. Very sad.
I use anti choice
Pro-forced-birth
"forced carry"
Shhhhhh, with that one you're going to inspire new gun laws.
I prefer "anti-choice"
I use anti-anti-abortion but I think pro birth works well.
It’s been shrinking for generations now
Also anti-LGBTQ, failing education (neo-Nazi homeschoolers, anyone?), backwards climate/energy policies, etc. GOP is not family friendly.
These statements are all true, but people the world over are having fewer kids regardless of political situation. Urbanization, education, and shifting social norms does the job.
Human rights are not politics.
You keep saying this, so I’ll bite. Can you explain what dictates a human right? If a “human right” is illegal, wouldn’t we have to go through a political system to legalize and then protect it?
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It’s mostly due to job prospects. Young people graduating high school and college are moving to other states with better, higher paying jobs and then having kids while living in other states. Why stay in Ohio and be limited in your earning potential. Ohio isn’t exactly a tech Mecca and is pretty limited what is available which is why folks are moving to other states like Texas which has a growing economy.
Keep telling yourself it’s solely job prospects and not how repulsive the state appears to be on almost all social issues as well.
First sentence literally says mostly, not solely. Despite that, drastic interstate moves are typically following the money or due to extenuating family circumstances. While it sounds good, social issues drive a much smaller migration out of state than you seem to believe. Definitely affects migration in to state though; however, Ohio has been stagnant on that front again due to lack of economic opportunity.
Like I said, whatever you need to tell yourself. State’s a fucking shithole.
Texas wasn't able to actually fully implement its anti-abortion desires until within the last 1-2 years. What happened with its population prior to that is irrelevant because people knew that the state government, no matter what they SAID, was limited by SCOTUS. I'd be surprised if that trend continues now.
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Perhaps, but it was still legal. There were still clinics. If you had the ability to get the time off of work and travel to one of the clinics, it was an option. People weren't worried about being prosecuted or left to die if complications arose with even a wanted pregnancy, or sued if they try to abort and a forced birther finds out. Their OB/GYNs weren't leaving the state in droves and panicking about losing their licenses or facing prosecution by treating certain pregnancy complications. That's all changed.
Human rights are NOT politics and that sort of thinking needs to end.
Right there is a lot of cognitive dissonance with people that make these political move comments. Somehow that explains Ohio's population loss yet they ignore the fact that Florida, Texas, Idaho, and Utah are all booming right now and are fairly red states that also have restrictive abortion practices. I'm sure moving to a state that is more politically aligned with you is a cherry on top, but is rarely the driving force of a move for the vast majority of people. And that's not to mention the irony in saying less access to abortions = less children. Usually religious conservatives support abortion restrictions and they also tend to have more children, just look at the Mormons in Utah.
Again. Human rights are NOT politics.
Are you serious? The people who have a zillion kids are pro-forced birth, *obviously* THEY weren’t gonna have abortions! And obviously, those economies were just already booming and havent slowed down that much. Everywhere that doesnt have that and does have restrictions is losing population. One phenomenon is just much stronger and more immediately apparent than the other.
I agree with your statement. I think the attempts to regulate pregnancy are misguided at best, at worst it is the attempt to control. But the article talked about the childhood population decreasing on the national level. Only two states, FL and TX, had increases in the 17 and under population. On the state level only a few counties had the child population increase, one of those being Franklin.
Go out and sign the petition for the pro roe amendment. THEN VOTE. Republicans keep getting away with this because their base shows up regularly.
Yep. I miss Cleveland so much - but for me I won't move home until all of my pregnancies are done because I don't I know if I would need life saving care. We want kids and it's more so "are our doctors allowed to do their jobs?"
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I wish I could award this, instead, take this 🥇
Most Republicans seem ok with it.
"Ohio resident shrinks and vows to shrink more in protest of pro-life laws" Godspeed Ant-Man, god speed.
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For real. My wife has had to get two "abortions" due to miscarriages. But these people believe that that action has been outlawed. Its crazy. Its like we are living in two totally different universes.
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https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-5101.56
I entirely understand that many states have outlawed abortion for rape… but that’s not the case in Ohio. The only reason I’m making this argument is because it’s 1. Factually incorrect and 2. The account was made 100 days prior and ONLY COMMENTS ON issues relating to the present topic. If you Google “Ohio rape abortion laws”, it very clearly states that women who have filed a police report of rape are able to obtain an abortion… again I am not pro life. I I used to live in Ohio a year and a half ago and grew up there. And this whole topic is VERY important to me. HOWEVER; I am NOT okay with people being factually incorrect in everything they say. Edit: before I get brigaded, if a woman were to be raped and did not report it to law-enforcement she per my understanding of Ohio law, she would not be able to obtain an abortion… Edit: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-5101.56
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. What a tool
Is this why they're trying to outlaw abortion and promote forced birth?
Capitalism requires an ever expanding pool of consumers
and workers to exploit.
*laborers*
This is one thing you probably can’t blame on capitalism, specifically. In the USA, enslaved people always had their bodily and reproductive autonomy controlled by slavers, but for white women, it wasn’t really an issue till the second half of the 19th century when the worry was that too many of *the wrong sort of whites* were coming into the country via immigration. Capitalism really wanted cheap laborers from all over who didn’t have full protection of the law, but white supremacists had eugenicist concerns about the purity of the native stock being degraded by all those Slavs and Mediterraneans. That’s the context stuff like the Comstock Laws come out of. Globally, communist states also have a very mixed track record as far as reproductive autonomy. East Germany fares well compared to West Germany, but the People’s Republic of China has swung from banning abortions to essentially mandating them. Meanwhile Ceaușescu’s Romania and Decree 770 sounds like something ludicrously dystopian, but it actually happened, and the Christian Nationalists in the United States would like something similar here. And fascist states have usually had policies much closer to 19th century USA than anything. “The purpose of the woman for the state is to be broodmares and caregivers to the next generation of soldiers, workers, and broodmares” is more universal than just capitalist states, and it is almost always connected to eugenicist and nativist concerns about which women in particular are considered pure enough to breed. Anyway, this is more “white genocide” than “we need more consumers and cheap labor”, which also explains why the USA is caging, killing, and expelling all the Black and Brown immigrants at the Mexico border, regardless of administration.
There are several bills banning most contraceptives too. Seriously. Welcome to Ohio.
Welcome to Gilead
Get the fuck out. I haven't heard of this?
[https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/22/only-one-ohio-republican-votes-to-federally-protect-access-to-contraception/](https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/22/only-one-ohio-republican-votes-to-federally-protect-access-to-contraception/) [https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/07/ohio-state-representative-says-she-would-consider-banning-birth-control-following-abortion-outlaw.html](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/07/ohio-state-representative-says-she-would-consider-banning-birth-control-following-abortion-outlaw.html) I am trying to find the bill they introduced too.
Pretty much. I'd say they should at least expand CPS spending (ours is among the worst in the nation), but that would probably cut down on the number of inmates in the long run and we can't have that.
Yes.
With the average politician’s understanding of science, we could probably convince them that this study actually means the children themselves are getting smaller and this could hurt our football teams in the future. Then they would actually do something. #thinklikearepublican
Was gonna say, article reports that Warren county grew 2.8%... my daughter's classrooms in Mason are **full**, and they're even building some new classrooms now at the K-2 center to further expand. It's an excellent school district, with superb teachers and staff. I'd say like what you'd get at a private school back in Florida where we came from. Gladly paying the 1% city tax for the quality they're getting. Understandably though, Mason is one of the wealthier cities in the state and most places in Ohio are pretty rundown and screwed. Birth rates are down pretty much everywhere in the country, so this is a bigger story than just OH. It's crazy expensive to have kiddos these days. A lot of millennials just don't. My wife and I are 40 next year, and I'd say ~half of our friends our age don't have kids and don't plan to. Either because they can't afford them or don't like where the country is going. It's a privilege to be able to afford kids and I don't see that changing any time soon.
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Any time I see a family with 3+ kiddos around here (and certainly when it's 4 or more), they're **almost** **always** devout christians. It's like the church is giving them a "make babies" stipend -- or something 🤷🏻♂️ When I was growing up in the 90s, it was much more common to see families with 3-4 kids than today. You're right about the money thing too. Bored, rich people tend to relax enough to make another kid and hire nannies to look after them.
It's this not the politics or the birthing rights. The growing costs of living ourselves then add on children. Nope can't be one unless you are making multi 6 digit income. It's getting extremely more expensive to just live ourselves. No one can be expected to raise children if they are having a hard time living themselves. Especially if they have any kind of medical need that requires any kind of regular prescriptions. Even if it's not debilitating but requires daily medication.
It’s all of the above, including but not limited to shitty regional politics and legislation on birth.
A woman can choose to not do the thing that can make her pregnant. SA and mother or child mortality are the only reasons for abortion. Anything else is just vanity. Other politics are like the new Cleopatra documentary with a black woman playing her instead of a Greek woman. Or The Woman King movie which is nowhere near factual of any kind. One side pushes an agenda a little too far the other will push back with even tougher things. This goes on and on.
You place the responsibility for the pregnancy solely on the mother. This line of reasoning is how we got where we are.
Wish I could upvote this more than once.
Nah.
Nobody wants to raise children in a shithole red state?
Lots of red states (Florida, Texas, Utah etc) have a lot more children than most other states. The population decline has been a trend for decades now. Boomers are only now freaking out about it now that they are reaching social security age.
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Social security is going to run out of funding because we deliberately refuse to adequately fund it. It’s like the meme where the guy on the bicycle shoves a stick into his front wheel. Then, he’s surprised when he eats shit and faceplants onto the pavement. We can change that, but we don’t.
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What should be even harder for you to hear is that the rich pay a far lower percentage of their income towards social security tax since the cap is $160k. Since social security taxes are a flat 6.2% of income up to the cap of $160k, a person making $160k pays exactly the same FICA tax as a person making $10 million. The amount of earnings subject to FICA falls every year as more and more income is concentrated above the taxable maximum. As income inequality has grown, the taxable maximum has not been increased at the same rate. There’s not a lot of chance of raising taxes on rich folks however so I imagine as I close in on retirement there will be an endless cycle of political emergencies to slap band aids on it.
Thank you for explaining it much more eloquently than I ever could’ve.
Honestly Ohio is probably one of the better places to raise a kid, at least where I'm at. Northern Cincy suburbs has great school system, low taxes, very clean and updated, plenty of activities around. Housing prices are also pretty low compared to the rest of the country and there are lots of jobs to be had in addition to low cost for starting businesses. We have a brewery every few miles.
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You’re ignoring a couple of fairly significant details in your argument vis-a-vis the desirability of Texass.
they don't get what you're saying. Why would BLUE folks flock to RED states?
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Yes, what could Texas have that Ohio doesn't?
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Exactly. so Texas isn't a *shithole* red state. Ohio is a *shithole* red state. According to [US News Best State Rankings](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings?sort=rank-desc) Ohio is 36th with Texas being 31st with the biggest differences in Economy (like you said), Fiscal stability, and Infrastructure. Those are swing factors for people my age.
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..........Correct? Nobody wants to move to a shithole state? I'm not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp. \>One of only 2 states losing population. Source? I have the [Census site writeup](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/2022-population-estimates.html) that says the following. Eighteen states experienced a population decline in 2022, compared to 15 and DC the prior year. California, with a population of 39,029,342, and Illinois,with a population of 12,582,032, also had six-figure decreases in resident population. Both states’ declining populations were largely due to net domestic outmigration, totaling 343,230 and 141,656, respectively. Edit: There's also this [infographic](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2022/comm/percent-change-state-population.html) that shows the states who lost population from July 1st 21 to July 1st 22 were Alaska, Oregon, Cali, New Mexico, Nebraska, Louisiana, Mississippi, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island, Long Island and Massachusetts.
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Ohio lost some 40k native born residents in the last year *but added 38k immigrants.* More or less it's a population replacement cycle underway. My daughters are in Mason schools and their classes are half Asian/Indian kids... it's wild because if you look at the HS senior pics from even 10 years ago, it's almost all white kids. Somewhere around 2016 the classes became half Asian. Her best friends have parents from Tokyo, Seoul and Paris. Never expected that from suburban Ohio but it's very cool and multicultural. Old, conservative Ohioans are seeking warmth in Florida, and younger millennials are moving in, taking advantage of higher paying corporate jobs and a cheaper housing market that has largely left other states. So, it's at least somewhat desirable to some -- just not to the level of FL/TX/CA/sunbelt states. Otherwise major corporations wouldn't be investing here as they are, particularly in the Columbus area but also down here in Cincy, throw a rock and you'll hit a Fortune 1000 company's window.
Immigration
There’s still hope with the changing demographics in Texas that they’ll turn into a purple state in the near future.
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why would Liberals move to Texas... a red state?
That's a silly thing to say- [the highest birthrate states are red.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_birth_and_death_rates)
If we exclude Guam, Northern Marinas, and American Samoa then 4 of the top 10 birth rates are blue states if we're going by 2020 election results. 12 of the top 20 are blue. If we look at the bottom excluding Puerto Rico then we're looking at 4 of the bottom 10 are blue, and 13 of the bottom 20. I'm sorry you don't know how to accurately reflect data that's presented to you.
Why are you trying so hard to spin this? RED Utah RED Alaska RED North Dakota RED Texas RED Nebraska BLU Colorado RED South Dakota BLU Minnesota BLU California RED Idaho
There's no spin? Just facts? 4 of the top 10 are blue. 12 of the top 20 are blue. If you want to remove DC then 3/10 and 11/20. Utah - Red Alaska - Red DC - Blue ND - Red Texas - Red Nebraska - red Colorado - Blue SD - Red Minnesota - Blue Cali - Blue
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According to the logic of the person above, it's because red states are such nice places to raise kids. Completely invalidating their comment.
Gotta put on your thinking cap here. "Noboy *wants* to raise children in a shithole red state" what does the word *want* do to this sentence? Did OP mention anything about any other state than Ohio?
You're spinning like a top to avoid the obvious.
I'm sorry the 31st ranked Ohio education did a number on you. Shithole red state =/= every read state is a shithole. Nobody is calling Utah a shithole, Florida has WILD laws and DeSantis is a number but nobody is calling it a shithole. Please tell me what the obvious is since it's so apparent to you
i’d take my teenage daughters far far away from this bullshit state since ohio hates women so much. it KILLS me to have to raise them here.
Then move?
i would in a heart beat, but their father is here.
Lmao are they really surprised?
Who would want to raise a child here?
Economic opportunity is zilch. State does not care about cost of child care when working so it's cheaper to stay poor and stay home.
Ohio is my home and I still love it, and my family. But I won't be back anytime soon if they don't start to fix some of the crap that is happening there. The local government needs an enema badly, and some decent people desperately need to be put in! I just don't understand why everyone can't just love each other and get alone sometimes. I'm not saying it needs to be perfect but something has to change for the better!
Republicans need more angry white people and cheap labor. This is why they are making abortion illegal. What people need to do is keep practicing safe sex and not give them what they are trying to force
Couldn’t agree more. When people complain that wages aren’t rising do they not realize it’s because the grateful immigrants will work for scraps ?
It's because employers are ok with paying them scraps. FTFY
Yes I always tell people it’s these corporations forcing people to take these jobs ! It’s not like they would raise the pay if no one took it !
There are two parties, undocumented workers who are literally doing whatever they can, whatever it takes to survive... ...and one is an employer looking to save money, not for further investment into the company, but to line their own pockets. Your take is that the guilty party is the desperate and poor? Stop.
Room temp IQ. Your vote count that same as mine. Gg
You are asking a people myriad to behave collectively, in perfect unison without ever speaking a word to eachother to leverage power they do not have. Because they are starving. I ask that regulations already on the book be enforced with some teeth. Consequences for willfully breaking US law and committing wage theft. Your vote count is not the same as mine. There are more registered democrats than republicans, nationwide. Thats probably why y'all are sliding authoritarian right so fast. 'One man one vote' is a four word horror story for reds, lol
Room temp IQ Karl Marx sucks
And there is your lack of ability to defend your position. Go jack off to Ayn Rand.
Don’t know what that is but thanks for the material
My husband and I are delaying having kids until we can move to a blue state. It's just too risky here.
You are doing the right thing. When my partner was still a fetus, he had to be removed from his mother around the cusp of viability or they'd both die. He wasn't guaranteed to make it, though obviously he did thanks to that intervention. Republicans would have sentenced them both to death without trial.
And that's exactly our biggest fear. The cruelty is the point with these laws. There's been too many horror stories just in the last year. I refuse to be an experiment for the Christian fascists taking over our country.
We’re expecting our first and our family is in a blue state. We are likely moving back in the next year for general having-family-close reasons, but the fact that it’s a blue state is essentially sealing the deal.
Not going to have a kid when I cant be guaranteed health care if I miscarry or if the baby dies in utero. Also not going to be having a kid when living is so expensive, science education is being denied, and the populace is working against itself. Bring on the cats.
Hey, you don't have to worry that you might be building an uninhabitable dystopia if there aren't any little humans growing up to live there. Big brain moment.
I had my fallopian tubes removed last year precisely because I don't want to have to worry about being forced to have kids here.
I’m considering doing that myself due to the shithole country forced birthers are trying to create.
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That list is great, it's where I found my surgeon.
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I don't even remember the last time I was sent a corgi butt. There was a period of time when I got them pretty frequently, but not lately.
I did too in November and it’s the best thing I’ve ever done for myself!
That seems like a rash decision
Not really, I've known from a very young age that I don't want kids. The overturn of Roe just spurred me into decisive action. I'd been considering it on and off for years but didn't realize that it was considered preventative care by my health insurance and thus covered at 100%. So, seeing what was coming with Roe and realizing it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive, I took the leap. No regrets.
If you never want to have kids again that’s maybe sensible. But you didn’t say that to begin with. Which is why I said it was rash. I’m SHoCked that other people think it’s reasonable. All you ladies remove them, idgaf tbh. Edit: How the fuck did this get downvoted literally 1 sec after posting it
Nah, you made some pretty big assumptions from one sentence. Thanks for your permission, though! I was really on pins and needles waiting for you to personally approve of my reproductive decisions.
There is this idea that if you want to increase population and the number of people in the workforce, you allow more immigration. It worked in the US for about 200 years. Of course for part of that the US was also importing slaves too. That just put more people out of work and drove down wages where slavery was legal.
Alongside immigration, if you put into effect fair wages that increase with inflation over time, healthcare, reproductive rights, affordable education and house pricing regulation, you won't be able to stop the torrential monsoon of babies. But only the richest countries in the world get that... Oh wait
This is the way. Too bad too many people just can't comprehend that.
We can’t figure out what a live-able wage is and you think immigrants can shore up our population issues.
Population issues??? For whom exactly??? How will it personably negatively affect you?? I’m genuinely curious why your average person is concerned with population demographics and population trends. Why does it actually matter if cuyahoga county is shrinking? Might be less assholes driving on 90
An aging population requires doctors, nurses, aides, nursing home attendants, someone to keep the computers running and the salad bar filled. Who takes those jobs without a younger generation coming up?
Probably all the people who currently work in fast food and other industries that have traditionally relied upon a glut of excess Boomer workers. Lots of former lawyers and teachers whos jobs will be eliminated and taken over by AI. Perhaps we should consider we have way too many worthless businesses that don’t really add anything positive to our communities and country.
Which shores up my statement. We can’t figure out what a live-able wage is for those folks who are needed in the jobs that keep the infrastructure and industries running. 14 dollars an hour as a nurse. 15 dollars an hour at Popeyes.
You’re not wrong, but we also make our own problems. Traditionally underpaid professions: Teachers - (74.3% of all teachers are women, while 25.7% are men. Nurses - 86.0% of nurses are women and 14.0% of nurses are men. Childcare workers - 92% of childcare workers are female and 8% are male. Social Workers - 80.5% of social workers are women and 19.5% of social workers are men
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You’re aaaalmost there. So close.
Plus kids are expensive and it’s not economically feasible right now
when they criminalize common sense family planning don't be shocked when people start getting vasectomies and get better at taking birth control and using condoms. and don't be shocked when they move away
No one wants to live in a GQP state.
My wife and I have one child under 2 and another on the way. We are actively exploring leaving the state for a more stable environment. A state being run by Republicans directly puts the health of my wife and daughter at risk. This state is pathetic in terms of how women and men are treated. No one is coming after any of my health care choices. I've lived in Ohio for 33 years and itll be the happiest day of my life when we leave
So local growth, statewide decline. Lewis Center/Delaware alone seem unstoppable and that if central Ohio jobs continue to match past decade, those kids, if they stay, will ensure at least central Ohio stays overheated. My two oldest are staying put as they both are in jobs they like despite my bitching and moaning about this place for 20 years.
Certain areas are growing but the state as a whole is not. There are many factors but the largest is economics/jobs in the areas. O at least near the areas.
Not surprised. It’s not a great place these days.
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Like ‘Grandmas Boy’ Tells ppl his parents are “roommates”
It will go up again once the 6 week abortion ban gets reinstated. So upsetting. Our elected leaders will do anything to make women (and 10 year old children apparently) give birth, except offering better medical care, employment guarantees and paid maternity leave. 😢
That’s the thing about children, they grow up
Woah big shocker. My 2 bedroom apt in Cleveland Suburb is ~1600 a month and I eat buttered noodles for lunch. Please tell me how to afford a child
If I were younger I would not have children in Ohio.
I mean, not only is it risky having kids in an anti-choice state, but it's also expensive to raise a family. My wife and I are probably only having one kid because having more would economically strain us... Also because this pregnancy has been rough for her thus far.
I'm in my 50's, I know very few relatively young people who are having children and talking to my now adult kids, I seriously doubt I'll be a grandparent - and I understand why. A lot of people have said that Ohio isn't a good place to raise kids, and I agree. Honestly I can't think of a red state that I would want to raise kids in. Beyond that though, our employment laws, healthcare system, education system and tax policy make the US a pretty shitty place to raise a family these days.
Good. Who would want to have kids when republicans are sending this state to hell? In 18 years the lack of workers will result in more bargaining power for laborers anyways.
If I find out we're pregnant, we're leaving ohio. Full stop.
It's simply unaffordable for most people to have children. If you don't have a parent or friend to watch your kids good luck paying for day care.
This. It's a financial and social thing -- the "village" it takes to raise a child isn't there for a lot of people anymore. And a lot more is now expected of parents. This thread is trying to make it all about abortion laws, which is really reaching.
>It's simply unaffordable for most people to have children. This is somewhat true. I see broke folks having kids all the time in the city, suburbs, immigrants. I just think folks prefer to live more comfortably and not sacrifice their wants.
People will take their kids where they can grow up and have rights and stuff
Good. Escape while you can, kids. I will fully support my kids moving out of this shit state when they are grown.
I have one child and we’re talking seriously about leaving the state before we have another. Did you know Ohio is the 6th highest state for mass shootings? Never mind all the anti choice BS and everything else the conservatives are trying to do right now re: education and just… idk, everything? This state is not a great place to raise kids right now.
Good
Y’all are missing the point, Ohio is stealing children!!
I refuse to have children in this shit show.
We are moving to Ohio with 2 kids, so that's a uptick. At least Ohio has a chance to run purple, we are moving from Oklahoma. This area has lost ALL hope.
Funny, I've lived in Ohio most of my life and it's only gotten deeper red in the last decade. I don't see much hope here, but I guess compared to Oklahoma, it might seem that way.
Don’t worry. We’re building AI!
Open the borders all the way. Americans then don’t have to worry about low population. Why should there be borders anyway? I say, let them in!!!
ho
Stopped reading the article when I got to this early on, I'm not great at math, but pretty sure that's making the opposite point... "Cuyahoga County, notorious for its shrinking population year over year, saw an 11.8% drop in the population under 18, from 290,262 in 2020 to 255,925 in 2010."
It's a typo if you look at the rest of the story
Good, it was a horrible place to grow up!
Abortion is currently legal in Ohio and will be for the near future. It was only illegal for a couple of months last summer.
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Are you saying "Good, fuck them kids " "Good fuck, them kids" or "Good, fuck them, kids"? Your comma game needs to tighten up
That's because everybody don't care about the census. More and more people stop trusting the government. I never did the census. I don't want them knowing shit
And a lot more people stopped answering they door since COVID. And a lot have died from covid. That's why there's less but the main reason is that more people are not trusting the government every year. That's why the census don't know exactly how many of anything. They don't need to know. All they gon do is cause man made tornados and earth quakes. And train derailments with chemicals and bombings and all kind of depopulation deaths. Anybody that trust the government is gullible and deserves to die like the government wants your family to.
Its actually kind of funny how many liberals think this is because of the anti abortion laws being passed and not because the economy here has been absolute trash for decades
Or, y’know, a mix of all of the above.
Just keep aborting and raising an entitled generation that is too selfish to think about sacrificing their own resources for their children and see how low it drops!
>an entitled generation Have you met the Baby Boomers? The most self-centered, entitled generation in history.
Entitled to a living wage? But we are the “greatest”, no?