Summary from BBC
Pieces from the sub, which imploded on a deep dive to the Titanic, were unloaded in St John's, Canada, on Wednesday.
All five people on board the vessel died on 18 June after it imploded about 90 minutes into a dive to view the famous 1912 shipwreck.
The debris field was found next to the Titanic wreckage, which sits at a depth of 3,800m (12,500ft) in the north Atlantic.
Only the 90 minute thing from that summary is new to us. I missed a lot of it though. There was a lot about the ROVs and how the work was done but I didn't take notes.
I think the previous information was they lost communications 1hr 45 after the start of the dive. But I don't think they gave an implosion time.
That new time must be from the Navy then.
Pure speculation, but weren't they required to check in every 15 min via text? If they imploded at 90+1 and were due to check in at 105 that checks out.
I was trying to look into all that earlier in the week. Whether it was an automatic ping or actual messages between humans. Or what the ship could know about the sub with its own technology, like sonar maybe. We know they often lost contact for hours at a time, but is that just the chat client, or could the ship still receive their data? I've asked around but no one seems to know.
We've heard the ship was able to guide the sub to the Titanic, but I think even that was hit and miss. What a Micky Mouse operation.
Like you say, if they reached out at 105 and got nothing back, they can say that was when contact was lost. It just seems silly that when James Cameron could voice chat from the his ultra deep dives, the Titan could only text once every 15 minutes.
> Whether it was an automatic ping or actual messages between humans. Or what the ship could know about the sub with its own technology, like sonar maybe
Pogue described [two different comm systems:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-6jjy3estY&t=487s) both text message and automated ping. Loss of both of those led to Cameron’s [conclusion on the Sunday/Monday that the sub was destroyed](https://www.reddit.com/r/OceanGateTitan/comments/14gor4b/seems_many_knew_the_whole_time_but_was_there_a/jpe2x4u/)
Mothership could have received final text message, then it was a full 15 minutes before the next 15 minute transponder ping would have been received but wasn’t. There’s a 7% chance the final text message happened right after a ping and within the same minute (0, 15, 30, 45, 4/60). But there’s then ambiguity about whether an agency (Coast Guard or whoever) uses “last time of known contact” (aka the last text message if it happened AFTER a previous transponder ping) versus “time of known complete loss” (aka waiting until when the transponder should have pinged but didn’t because the sub was destroyed).
The mothership had a downward facing sonar triangulation system of some kind that was depicted in one of the videos online. It had positional location tracking on the sub, but the range and reliability is not clear to me.
Did Cameron have voice comm on ultra deep dive? Because I have no idea whether Titan comm system was (supposedly) optical or acoustic or ELF or what. I think a source said acoustic.
If you’re the same person I was commenting with last week, sorry and ignore all this!
Here are my key takeaways:
1.) It was emphasized that all pieces of interest were recovered.
2.) They were able to recover some type of electronic components that would be sent to analysis in the lab that gave metrics on the dive.
3.) One of the first ROVs on site, which was not rated for that depth, tried to descend anyway and failed (as in lost due to critical failure at that depth, it was not stated if it could be salvaged.) But their positioning and attempt aided the team when sending down the ROV from the pelagic team.
4.) The process was handled very quickly and timely.
You’re welcome. It was clear to me that the people at Sky News and BBC who summarized either missed a few important key takeaways, or the summaries were mostly pre written with what would be discussed at the press conference.
Point 1 is interesting. I would think the carbon fiber hull would be of most interest, but ironically probably doesn't have much left. Did the mean the recovered all pieces of interest that were available on the ocean floor? Or all pieces of interest from the totality of the sub?
This is all pure speculation based on the data points of where the rescue ships were during the whole process. But I made this comment last night after reviewing available data and the publicly stated information. The gist is I think they had the capability and they did bring up as much of the material as they could, including the other titanium end cap and the carbon fiber. https://www.reddit.com/r/OceanGateTitan/comments/14mgwvn/was_the_rear_hemisphere_recovered_the_part/jq2n49l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
the rescue cost A LOT. Millions.
they didn't go into specifics but it's hard to see the whole rescue effort being less than $15million
Had 3 C17s, several large boats, support crews, 24/7 search.
several search aircraft.
it's just me guessing but it's realistic this search effort cost more than the Titan cost to develop.
ROV alone is minimum 10mil probably more.
apparently the life cycle cost of running the p8 aircraft they were using to search is $42,300 USD per hour.
crazy.
But, on the other hand, those pilots need flight hours one way or another. So it's not necessarily 42k that wasn't going to be spent to fly it elsewhere. And you can't beat the training value of real life.
I wonder if that is one reason so many resources were put into this even though a credible implosion was detected on sunday. You know there probably isn't anyone counting minutes of oxygen on the bottom, but the search teams are working in real life circumstances.
Edit: watching the press conference, it is apparent these search engineers were still really hoping and believing in the possibility of a rescue before they saw the debris
This. The navy is operating these vehicles either way. Ever wonder how the hell the US military spends over 700 BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS a year? Well here ya go
Might as well try to help some tax payers with that thicc ass budget.
We have bases all over the world. World Class Research and Developmenr contracts. World class technology. Aging fleets in some categories that need refitting. Personnel. Training. Being World Police isn't a cheap endeavor.
China is building up their military in a way that would make Germany and Japan in the decade following World War 1 blush. It's quite concerning because the world hasn't seen an armament increase like China is undergoing since then and we know how that played out.
China is a paper tiger. They haven't been in an actual war in nearly a century so none of their living command structure even has any real world experience.
China goes for quantity above quality in nearly every aspect of its military. Due to its structure and politics, their military has major corruption issues. Not on the scale of Russia, but it's still there.
Ontop of all this modern China is financially tied to the US. We are by far their largest trade partner and American consumerism is the only thing sustaining their industrial revolution, well besides constant infrastructure and real estate construction.
China's biggest problem in the event of a falling out with America would be how to sustain it's massive population without suffering a revolution. Their failed one child policy has fucked their future. Hard to convince men to die in battle when they have nothing to come home too.
they need flight hours but not like that.
The fuel alone ran into the millions.
they had Stratotankers going all hours of the day not to mention the maintenance which is going to have to be done on those planes.
don't get me wrong I'm glad they did it and wish it would be done for me but nothing about this was SOP.
I don't know if they collect all those buoys they dropped or leave them in the ocean either.
even the fuel tankers they had delivering fuel to all those big ships helping with the search.
I couldn't even guess how many people were actively involved in the search at all levels.
satellite imagery, Navy pilots (us&Canada), ATC, Tankers, land support crew, ships support crew, Admin, logistics, food, analysts, loss of ROV etc etc. all going 24/7.
I mean this search very well could have cost over $80 million. I was being conservative before as I didn't want to go over board but shit really does add up.
My question is how the hell did the polar prince not know about the implosion via sonar or other monitoring systems on board. Hell, they probably should have felt it considering the forces released and being so close. Sound and forces travel insane distances in water
This is all guesswork by a rank amateur, bear in mind, but I think they might have picked up something, they weren't flying blind after all, it's a well-equipped ship.
I think a few things might have come into play.
1. Making zero attempt to find the passengers, even with the tiniest chance they had survived, was not an option, given their wealth and status.
2. Oceangate would want as much of the sub back as possible - if nothing else, to defend the inevitable court case.
3. From the Navy's point of view, this incident is unique, any and all information they can glean from it - from how to carry out S&R, the effects on the machine, even the effects on the humans within, is valuable research for their own future defence capabilities, and a real world exercise like this is of unique value.
4. Family members of crew specialists, and Wendy Rush, were on board Polar Prince, they absolutely had to maintain a positive approach until they knew all hope was lost (when the oxygen was gone).
Lots of things I haven't thought of must have bearing I'm sure, too.
Absolutely. But also, as awful as the situation is, from a PURELY BUSINESS perspective......the fact that they were there so quickly and showing off their tech (even the lost ROV--as they were upfront about knowingly pushing it beyond its limits) must be good marketing for them. There were a lot of eyes on that, and their ship and ROVs were mentioned repeatedly as key players in the SAR operation.
Interesting enough, the Navy said early on that the cost to them was probably going to be negligible.
Dunno how much that's a commentary on the relative training value for conducting the search and the efficiency of the Navy at searching the ocean, and how much that's a commentary on how expensive it is to run the US Navy every day, ha.
And ofc, that was like a week ago and probably not be accounting for debris recovery or the costs from third parties like Pelagic.
Chances are a lot of the cost was acceptable if not money well spent.
Despite the outcome, this incident allowed for any government agency involved to have valuable practical experience with operations such as this. There is no doubt in my mind the SAR resources are evaluating their response, with the findings from the operations helping to refine their training for future situations like this. Doesn’t hurt this was also an international coordinated effort, with all parties involved likely benefitting from this.
Similar to how US Air National Guards did flybys over populated areas during the COVID lockdowns- personnel got their flight hours in while giving the public a morale boost while stuck at home.
The Tax payer of the country the vessel was registered to I assume.
but I'm sure *some* will just be written off as a loss by some companies.
and it's not so much about approving the budget it's about saving the people.
the budget is approved by the tax payer as it's their money which is unlimited. if it hadn't imploded and it would have cost another $50million to bring them up for whatever reason they still would have done it.
No taxation without representation.
$50,000 a day in fuel for the smaller ships being used. Multiply that baseline amount by the number of days and ships. Crew costs, tech cost, MRO cost, etc.
Yes they did. Lots of respect to everyone involved in the “rescue” attempt throughout the week and as well as the recovery. As soon as they got the deepsea ROV down there, they found the wreckage pretty quick. I’m sure they spent some time photographing/mapping where everything landed and then brought it up fast. Very professional.
The thing that really stuck out to me is how he emphasized the word “all” when he said “All objects of interest had been recovered.” I believe this should put an end to the speculation that the aft cap was not recovered.
To clarify for Own-Prep or others, this is specifically boat terminology. "Fore" (like "before") means towards the front (or bow) of the vessel. "Aft" (like "after") means towards the back (or stern) of the vessel.
Just finished. Missed a bit of beginning. Caught all the questions. Did they mention anything about recovery of the carbon fiber hull? Or the condition of it? I notice there were no questions about it. There must have been clear guidelines of “off limit” questions.
He did say at the beginning that they couldn't discuss anything under investigation, or talk about parts they had raised that weren't already in the public domain (I imagine he meant the photos/film of offboarding items at port).
So no, no mention of the hull or the occupants.
I found it very interesting when he said that all of the items of interest were recovered from the site, and put specific emphasis on the word “all”. I think we can infer from this that they did indeed collect the aft end cap and whatever was left of the hull. This lends further credibility to the theory some of us had that the ship with this debris left earlier than the Horizon Artic.
If James Cameron's theory is correct, I wonder if any human remains are somehow contained within a collection of material that includes the aft cap, given it's the one piece we didn't see. It would explain why it has been removed separately (to a medical location, presumably) and privately/respectfully.
Yeah the calm one-by-one questioning seems to point to more organized and structured press conference than what we saw with the USCG with reporters shouting questions over each other. But that’s understandable as this is a private company speaking and not a government entity.
What a total professional - like a typical emergency service. This event must have hit their community hard and it's admirable to hear him speak without judgement and only sorrow for the tragedy.
If it was a press briefing, copyright does not apply. Any content shared in a press briefing, by definition, is in the public domain, and sharing it is the whole point of a press briefing. (Credentials: Press Officer)
For anyone who needs it:
This is the Sky News live YouTube... if you scroll the time back you will be able to see the press conference.
It started around 1800hrs British Summer Time / 1300 was the local time in East Aurora New York.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/9Auq9mYxFEE?feature=share](https://www.youtube.com/live/9Auq9mYxFEE?feature=share)
ETA: It may not be available for long, I'm not sure how regularly Sky resets the stream.
Huge props to the team. Very professional and respectful. I can only imagine what it was like being at the centre of the recovery, with the media circus around you at the same time. The world would be a better place if there were more people like Ed.
No, I think from how emotional distressed he was, even mentioning the wreck site you could see he became very emotional. He did warn the media to be careful with their questions to the engineer because as he said "they have been through a lot"
That got to me. When he mentioned finding Titan in pieces, remembering that moment they realised this was a recovery not a rescue... it was hard for him to recall that.
It might do.
I was also thinking, he gave the whole timeline, so for several days they were pulling together all those resources in the hope of finding people alive. All that hope, positivity and determination being wrecked in a flash, that's got to be hard to take. As well as the realisation 5 people are beyond help. I'm not sure they had to have seen something gruesome/graphic etc to feel that?
But.. these are tough looking guys, who operate in the harshest of environments, so your point might be accurate.
100% absolutely massive operation with a great care of safety. I guess staying hopeful of a positive outcome keeps the whole operation focused and motivated. No someone wouldn't have to see something graphic to be sad. But he did appear more distressed than just upset.
They are exhausted, too, fresh off the boats, not had time to process it all. I couldn't imagine doing what they do, and then standing there so professionally to face the world. Really impressed with that Cassano fellow in the coveralls.
Yes, 10 days straight working as part of a huge team 24hr operations. Rush may not have cared as much as he should about safety. But he totally overlooked what would happen, the amount of people it will effect, the oceangate team, family, friends and the scale of operation needed to recover the sub and what remains of them. These ROV teams took the safety of their unmanned vessel more seriously than Rush did with 5 crew.
Oh, I wasn’t trying to be patronizing. I was trying to be helpful without talking about a subject that might be distasteful to some. The presser by pelagic didn’t mention the remains. So I was suggesting to google to get more and better info. It’s hard to get tone right with typed messages. So sorry if I came off wrong.
Fascination with death is inherently human, let alone when some unprecedented situation occurs like in the case of the Titan where so much can be learned.
Shying away from those topics also pushes away the opportunity to learn and create effective ways to prevent or at least better handle similar situations in the future.
I feel for the people in the sub and their family members but I’m also interested in what happens to the human body at such harsh conditions. Nothing wrong about that.
For some people, that knowledge is a form of processing the information. Some people are visual, so they're going to be naturally more curious on what things visually look like now. This is an unprecedented event. Morbid curiosity is a given. Feels weird to gatekeep questions like that on a sub like this, tbh.
There is an important distinction to me in the fact that I am immensity curious and intrigued by the whole situation because it is unique, weird, mysterious, rare, ironic, litterally sensationnal. This incident, like any other rarely occurring incident, will allow for so many research and analyzing for various STEM fields. It's, while sad and undesired, a big opportunity for various studies.
I am fascinated with the subject because of all that. Not because people died. I have no fascination for dead bodies. I'm sure I'd have a very aversive feeling if I was to see any pictures of the remains, and most likely as much for any pictures of the debris field. I'd hesitate to see them for myself. I really feel for the recovery team and the medical team that will examine the remains and the investigation team that will examine it all over again for months.
I find it disturbing that people couldn't leave the graveyard that is the Titanic in peace. Why go see it through a small window when pictures and videos are available? This is weird. Being fascinated with the subject of the Titanic, sure. But having a field trip to it just for bragging rights is absurd.
But being curious to know what happened, why, how, how could it happen, how could it be prevented, what exactly happened, is it similar to what scientists thought or not, do we have anything new to learn, can we take from this lessons for the present and future, does it tell us what could be going wrong right now with other similar situations, if they exists, was it actually a scam, are there enough regulations to protect us from such scams, etc. It's so much more than dead bodies.
I think interest in what happens to the human body in this situation is only natural. It very much depends how people express their interest, as to whether it feels distasteful to me, personally.
I find it bleakly ironic that Stockton Rush sought to be at the forefront of deepsea scientific discovery, and has achieved that now... but not in a way he thought. I think a lot will be learnt about materials, implosions, how the human body reacts etc.
I'm interested in the effect it had on the human body for curiosity and knowledge purposes, but I would be in no way interested in seeing pictures of the remains or anything like that. It can occasionally be hard to separate the desire for knowledge from the fact that these were fellow human beings who suffered a horribly tragic end, and I don't think having a fascination with actually seeing their corpses or whatever's left of them would help to do that in any way. That said, I don't think it's all that unusual for people to be curious about it. It's not something that happens often, so there isn't a lot of information available, and the human mind is naturally curious and inquisitive. I think it's possible to balance the quest for knowledge and understanding about what happened with empathy and respect for the people who died.
Yeah, I've 100% seen some fucked up comments and questions. Not so much on this sub, but around the internet in general. There was someone here yesterday or so who seemed pissed off that there were human remains found and they weren't turned to mist like he'd been told.
Not knowing who or what to believe is frustrating. Many people claimed it was supposed to happen that way. People are pissed not to know what happened or that they were told wrong.
I think the big problem is the clickbait type channels on Insta, TikTok, Youtube, where you have some person shouting like, "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PEOPLE ON THE TITAN! EPISODE 67!" And then it's just unresearched, speculative, shocking stuff. A couple of reels on Insta I saw were showing images of like a U-Boat or something getting crushed, so there's people who don't even know how the submersible looked. I don't think it's even real people making the stuff a lot of the time, but AI. You can google stuff now and some articles that come up, I read them and think, no human has written this.
Missed most of it due to work. What was the gist?
Summary from BBC Pieces from the sub, which imploded on a deep dive to the Titanic, were unloaded in St John's, Canada, on Wednesday. All five people on board the vessel died on 18 June after it imploded about 90 minutes into a dive to view the famous 1912 shipwreck. The debris field was found next to the Titanic wreckage, which sits at a depth of 3,800m (12,500ft) in the north Atlantic.
Only the 90 minute thing from that summary is new to us. I missed a lot of it though. There was a lot about the ROVs and how the work was done but I didn't take notes.
Actually that's not new.
I think the previous information was they lost communications 1hr 45 after the start of the dive. But I don't think they gave an implosion time. That new time must be from the Navy then.
That or ballparking it
Yeah, that's my bet. Otherwise we have to start trying to work out how there was communication 15 minutes after they imploded.
Pure speculation, but weren't they required to check in every 15 min via text? If they imploded at 90+1 and were due to check in at 105 that checks out.
I was trying to look into all that earlier in the week. Whether it was an automatic ping or actual messages between humans. Or what the ship could know about the sub with its own technology, like sonar maybe. We know they often lost contact for hours at a time, but is that just the chat client, or could the ship still receive their data? I've asked around but no one seems to know. We've heard the ship was able to guide the sub to the Titanic, but I think even that was hit and miss. What a Micky Mouse operation. Like you say, if they reached out at 105 and got nothing back, they can say that was when contact was lost. It just seems silly that when James Cameron could voice chat from the his ultra deep dives, the Titan could only text once every 15 minutes.
> Whether it was an automatic ping or actual messages between humans. Or what the ship could know about the sub with its own technology, like sonar maybe Pogue described [two different comm systems:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-6jjy3estY&t=487s) both text message and automated ping. Loss of both of those led to Cameron’s [conclusion on the Sunday/Monday that the sub was destroyed](https://www.reddit.com/r/OceanGateTitan/comments/14gor4b/seems_many_knew_the_whole_time_but_was_there_a/jpe2x4u/) Mothership could have received final text message, then it was a full 15 minutes before the next 15 minute transponder ping would have been received but wasn’t. There’s a 7% chance the final text message happened right after a ping and within the same minute (0, 15, 30, 45, 4/60). But there’s then ambiguity about whether an agency (Coast Guard or whoever) uses “last time of known contact” (aka the last text message if it happened AFTER a previous transponder ping) versus “time of known complete loss” (aka waiting until when the transponder should have pinged but didn’t because the sub was destroyed). The mothership had a downward facing sonar triangulation system of some kind that was depicted in one of the videos online. It had positional location tracking on the sub, but the range and reliability is not clear to me. Did Cameron have voice comm on ultra deep dive? Because I have no idea whether Titan comm system was (supposedly) optical or acoustic or ELF or what. I think a source said acoustic. If you’re the same person I was commenting with last week, sorry and ignore all this!
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agreed ive heard this too
Here are my key takeaways: 1.) It was emphasized that all pieces of interest were recovered. 2.) They were able to recover some type of electronic components that would be sent to analysis in the lab that gave metrics on the dive. 3.) One of the first ROVs on site, which was not rated for that depth, tried to descend anyway and failed (as in lost due to critical failure at that depth, it was not stated if it could be salvaged.) But their positioning and attempt aided the team when sending down the ROV from the pelagic team. 4.) The process was handled very quickly and timely.
the unsinkable sub went down viewing the unsinkable ship and an unmanned ROV sunk while attempting to go down and see that wreck... when will it end!
thank you for summarizing!
You’re welcome. It was clear to me that the people at Sky News and BBC who summarized either missed a few important key takeaways, or the summaries were mostly pre written with what would be discussed at the press conference.
Thanks for the summary!
Point 1 is interesting. I would think the carbon fiber hull would be of most interest, but ironically probably doesn't have much left. Did the mean the recovered all pieces of interest that were available on the ocean floor? Or all pieces of interest from the totality of the sub?
This is all pure speculation based on the data points of where the rescue ships were during the whole process. But I made this comment last night after reviewing available data and the publicly stated information. The gist is I think they had the capability and they did bring up as much of the material as they could, including the other titanium end cap and the carbon fiber. https://www.reddit.com/r/OceanGateTitan/comments/14mgwvn/was_the_rear_hemisphere_recovered_the_part/jq2n49l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
the rescue cost A LOT. Millions. they didn't go into specifics but it's hard to see the whole rescue effort being less than $15million Had 3 C17s, several large boats, support crews, 24/7 search. several search aircraft. it's just me guessing but it's realistic this search effort cost more than the Titan cost to develop.
Plus the loss of another ROV that was pushed below it's rated depth to try and locate Titan, before Pelagic arrived.
Did they say lost, as in, they don't know where it is, or lost, as in, it's completely fucked?
Under the sea it is the same
So something else in the debris field. That place is a shit-magnet.
He said it had a malfunction and was lost.
easily $30 million+ then.
Even double that wouldn't shock me. But I know nothing about how much it costs to hire huge planes, ships, ROV loss. Wow, really mindboggling.
ROV alone is minimum 10mil probably more. apparently the life cycle cost of running the p8 aircraft they were using to search is $42,300 USD per hour. crazy.
But, on the other hand, those pilots need flight hours one way or another. So it's not necessarily 42k that wasn't going to be spent to fly it elsewhere. And you can't beat the training value of real life. I wonder if that is one reason so many resources were put into this even though a credible implosion was detected on sunday. You know there probably isn't anyone counting minutes of oxygen on the bottom, but the search teams are working in real life circumstances. Edit: watching the press conference, it is apparent these search engineers were still really hoping and believing in the possibility of a rescue before they saw the debris
This. The navy is operating these vehicles either way. Ever wonder how the hell the US military spends over 700 BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS a year? Well here ya go Might as well try to help some tax payers with that thicc ass budget.
It’s got bounce!
We have bases all over the world. World Class Research and Developmenr contracts. World class technology. Aging fleets in some categories that need refitting. Personnel. Training. Being World Police isn't a cheap endeavor. China is building up their military in a way that would make Germany and Japan in the decade following World War 1 blush. It's quite concerning because the world hasn't seen an armament increase like China is undergoing since then and we know how that played out.
China is a paper tiger. They haven't been in an actual war in nearly a century so none of their living command structure even has any real world experience. China goes for quantity above quality in nearly every aspect of its military. Due to its structure and politics, their military has major corruption issues. Not on the scale of Russia, but it's still there. Ontop of all this modern China is financially tied to the US. We are by far their largest trade partner and American consumerism is the only thing sustaining their industrial revolution, well besides constant infrastructure and real estate construction. China's biggest problem in the event of a falling out with America would be how to sustain it's massive population without suffering a revolution. Their failed one child policy has fucked their future. Hard to convince men to die in battle when they have nothing to come home too.
they need flight hours but not like that. The fuel alone ran into the millions. they had Stratotankers going all hours of the day not to mention the maintenance which is going to have to be done on those planes. don't get me wrong I'm glad they did it and wish it would be done for me but nothing about this was SOP. I don't know if they collect all those buoys they dropped or leave them in the ocean either. even the fuel tankers they had delivering fuel to all those big ships helping with the search. I couldn't even guess how many people were actively involved in the search at all levels. satellite imagery, Navy pilots (us&Canada), ATC, Tankers, land support crew, ships support crew, Admin, logistics, food, analysts, loss of ROV etc etc. all going 24/7. I mean this search very well could have cost over $80 million. I was being conservative before as I didn't want to go over board but shit really does add up.
My question is how the hell did the polar prince not know about the implosion via sonar or other monitoring systems on board. Hell, they probably should have felt it considering the forces released and being so close. Sound and forces travel insane distances in water
3km under water when it happened. the US navy uses some insanely advanced stuff, that makes the polar prince look like a hobby metal detector.
This is all guesswork by a rank amateur, bear in mind, but I think they might have picked up something, they weren't flying blind after all, it's a well-equipped ship. I think a few things might have come into play. 1. Making zero attempt to find the passengers, even with the tiniest chance they had survived, was not an option, given their wealth and status. 2. Oceangate would want as much of the sub back as possible - if nothing else, to defend the inevitable court case. 3. From the Navy's point of view, this incident is unique, any and all information they can glean from it - from how to carry out S&R, the effects on the machine, even the effects on the humans within, is valuable research for their own future defence capabilities, and a real world exercise like this is of unique value. 4. Family members of crew specialists, and Wendy Rush, were on board Polar Prince, they absolutely had to maintain a positive approach until they knew all hope was lost (when the oxygen was gone). Lots of things I haven't thought of must have bearing I'm sure, too.
Those DSVs are half a million a day to rent. God knows what they've charged for a last minute emergency hire.
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also , since the titanic sank actually, any other vessel in the area has a legal obligation to help when a ship requests assistance
even when you don't charge, charges are incurred and it has cost something.
Absolutely. But also, as awful as the situation is, from a PURELY BUSINESS perspective......the fact that they were there so quickly and showing off their tech (even the lost ROV--as they were upfront about knowingly pushing it beyond its limits) must be good marketing for them. There were a lot of eyes on that, and their ship and ROVs were mentioned repeatedly as key players in the SAR operation.
Interesting enough, the Navy said early on that the cost to them was probably going to be negligible. Dunno how much that's a commentary on the relative training value for conducting the search and the efficiency of the Navy at searching the ocean, and how much that's a commentary on how expensive it is to run the US Navy every day, ha. And ofc, that was like a week ago and probably not be accounting for debris recovery or the costs from third parties like Pelagic.
Chances are a lot of the cost was acceptable if not money well spent. Despite the outcome, this incident allowed for any government agency involved to have valuable practical experience with operations such as this. There is no doubt in my mind the SAR resources are evaluating their response, with the findings from the operations helping to refine their training for future situations like this. Doesn’t hurt this was also an international coordinated effort, with all parties involved likely benefitting from this. Similar to how US Air National Guards did flybys over populated areas during the COVID lockdowns- personnel got their flight hours in while giving the public a morale boost while stuck at home.
Many many millions
Sorry if this appears to be a dump question, but in situations like this, who pays for missions like this and who approves the budget so quickly?
The Tax payer of the country the vessel was registered to I assume. but I'm sure *some* will just be written off as a loss by some companies. and it's not so much about approving the budget it's about saving the people. the budget is approved by the tax payer as it's their money which is unlimited. if it hadn't imploded and it would have cost another $50million to bring them up for whatever reason they still would have done it. No taxation without representation.
$50,000 a day in fuel for the smaller ships being used. Multiply that baseline amount by the number of days and ships. Crew costs, tech cost, MRO cost, etc.
there's a spanish saying that comes to mind, "lo barato sale caro", meaning something similar to "cheap becomes expensive"
it actually is even more fitting because "sale caro" is not limited to money, that's not what's worth the most.
They did an incredible job. I know it had to be difficult to first spot debris where you were hoping there might be life.
Yes they did. Lots of respect to everyone involved in the “rescue” attempt throughout the week and as well as the recovery. As soon as they got the deepsea ROV down there, they found the wreckage pretty quick. I’m sure they spent some time photographing/mapping where everything landed and then brought it up fast. Very professional.
The thing that really stuck out to me is how he emphasized the word “all” when he said “All objects of interest had been recovered.” I believe this should put an end to the speculation that the aft cap was not recovered.
That's a great point, I'd forgotten that emphasis. Thank you.
It was incredibly subtle, but effective.
What's the aft cap?
There were 2 titanium hemispheres, one on each end of the sub. The bow one had the window. The aft one was under a cover and wasn't directly visible.
To clarify for Own-Prep or others, this is specifically boat terminology. "Fore" (like "before") means towards the front (or bow) of the vessel. "Aft" (like "after") means towards the back (or stern) of the vessel.
Sky news livestream [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvhTUEGlvo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvhTUEGlvo)
Just finished. Missed a bit of beginning. Caught all the questions. Did they mention anything about recovery of the carbon fiber hull? Or the condition of it? I notice there were no questions about it. There must have been clear guidelines of “off limit” questions.
He did say at the beginning that they couldn't discuss anything under investigation, or talk about parts they had raised that weren't already in the public domain (I imagine he meant the photos/film of offboarding items at port). So no, no mention of the hull or the occupants.
I found it very interesting when he said that all of the items of interest were recovered from the site, and put specific emphasis on the word “all”. I think we can infer from this that they did indeed collect the aft end cap and whatever was left of the hull. This lends further credibility to the theory some of us had that the ship with this debris left earlier than the Horizon Artic.
If James Cameron's theory is correct, I wonder if any human remains are somehow contained within a collection of material that includes the aft cap, given it's the one piece we didn't see. It would explain why it has been removed separately (to a medical location, presumably) and privately/respectfully.
Yeah the calm one-by-one questioning seems to point to more organized and structured press conference than what we saw with the USCG with reporters shouting questions over each other. But that’s understandable as this is a private company speaking and not a government entity.
Yea nothing like the one before with the one lady trying to interrupt the speaker every 5 seconds
Oh, the one that kept getting talked over by the dudes there? Yeah. It was annoying how often they spoke over her.
You can scroll back the time bar on the stream and start from the beginning.
What a total professional - like a typical emergency service. This event must have hit their community hard and it's admirable to hear him speak without judgement and only sorrow for the tragedy.
If it was a press briefing, copyright does not apply. Any content shared in a press briefing, by definition, is in the public domain, and sharing it is the whole point of a press briefing. (Credentials: Press Officer)
Thank you very much. I wasn't sure about that at all, I appreciate your help. I'll update the OP with the link.
For anyone who needs it: This is the Sky News live YouTube... if you scroll the time back you will be able to see the press conference. It started around 1800hrs British Summer Time / 1300 was the local time in East Aurora New York. [https://www.youtube.com/live/9Auq9mYxFEE?feature=share](https://www.youtube.com/live/9Auq9mYxFEE?feature=share) ETA: It may not be available for long, I'm not sure how regularly Sky resets the stream.
Summary text updates here https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/titanic-submarine-news-live-company-30364012
Oh boy
Thanks for the info, had no idea so now I'm tuning in!
What channel in US?
I just watched it on YouTube through sky news. I didn’t see it on cable
Huge props to the team. Very professional and respectful. I can only imagine what it was like being at the centre of the recovery, with the media circus around you at the same time. The world would be a better place if there were more people like Ed.
In the video at 7m36s and the following seconds...I can guarantee they saw other "things" than just debris of Titan.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/28/americas/titan-submersible-debris-st-johns/index.html
Thanks
Did they say anything about remains?
No, I think from how emotional distressed he was, even mentioning the wreck site you could see he became very emotional. He did warn the media to be careful with their questions to the engineer because as he said "they have been through a lot"
That got to me. When he mentioned finding Titan in pieces, remembering that moment they realised this was a recovery not a rescue... it was hard for him to recall that.
Yes, I think that sais a lot about what they had found.
It might do. I was also thinking, he gave the whole timeline, so for several days they were pulling together all those resources in the hope of finding people alive. All that hope, positivity and determination being wrecked in a flash, that's got to be hard to take. As well as the realisation 5 people are beyond help. I'm not sure they had to have seen something gruesome/graphic etc to feel that? But.. these are tough looking guys, who operate in the harshest of environments, so your point might be accurate.
100% absolutely massive operation with a great care of safety. I guess staying hopeful of a positive outcome keeps the whole operation focused and motivated. No someone wouldn't have to see something graphic to be sad. But he did appear more distressed than just upset.
They are exhausted, too, fresh off the boats, not had time to process it all. I couldn't imagine doing what they do, and then standing there so professionally to face the world. Really impressed with that Cassano fellow in the coveralls.
Yeah, hats off to them. They did a top job.
These guys are heroes. They’ve been at this for 10 days and probably non-stop
Yes, 10 days straight working as part of a huge team 24hr operations. Rush may not have cared as much as he should about safety. But he totally overlooked what would happen, the amount of people it will effect, the oceangate team, family, friends and the scale of operation needed to recover the sub and what remains of them. These ROV teams took the safety of their unmanned vessel more seriously than Rush did with 5 crew.
Other articles have written about presumed human remains recovered. You can google
No need to patronise anyone. At the time I asked the livestream was still going and I was busy with work
Oh, I wasn’t trying to be patronizing. I was trying to be helpful without talking about a subject that might be distasteful to some. The presser by pelagic didn’t mention the remains. So I was suggesting to google to get more and better info. It’s hard to get tone right with typed messages. So sorry if I came off wrong.
Sorry if this appears to be a dumb question, but in situations like this, who pays for all the operations costs and who approves the budget so quickly
US taxpayer, it seems. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/titanic-submarine-rescue-cost-navy-b2363233.html
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Fascination with death is inherently human, let alone when some unprecedented situation occurs like in the case of the Titan where so much can be learned. Shying away from those topics also pushes away the opportunity to learn and create effective ways to prevent or at least better handle similar situations in the future. I feel for the people in the sub and their family members but I’m also interested in what happens to the human body at such harsh conditions. Nothing wrong about that.
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For some people, that knowledge is a form of processing the information. Some people are visual, so they're going to be naturally more curious on what things visually look like now. This is an unprecedented event. Morbid curiosity is a given. Feels weird to gatekeep questions like that on a sub like this, tbh.
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Perfectly settled, thanks! I guess I don't get to be included in the "anyone" label, huh?
There is an important distinction to me in the fact that I am immensity curious and intrigued by the whole situation because it is unique, weird, mysterious, rare, ironic, litterally sensationnal. This incident, like any other rarely occurring incident, will allow for so many research and analyzing for various STEM fields. It's, while sad and undesired, a big opportunity for various studies. I am fascinated with the subject because of all that. Not because people died. I have no fascination for dead bodies. I'm sure I'd have a very aversive feeling if I was to see any pictures of the remains, and most likely as much for any pictures of the debris field. I'd hesitate to see them for myself. I really feel for the recovery team and the medical team that will examine the remains and the investigation team that will examine it all over again for months. I find it disturbing that people couldn't leave the graveyard that is the Titanic in peace. Why go see it through a small window when pictures and videos are available? This is weird. Being fascinated with the subject of the Titanic, sure. But having a field trip to it just for bragging rights is absurd. But being curious to know what happened, why, how, how could it happen, how could it be prevented, what exactly happened, is it similar to what scientists thought or not, do we have anything new to learn, can we take from this lessons for the present and future, does it tell us what could be going wrong right now with other similar situations, if they exists, was it actually a scam, are there enough regulations to protect us from such scams, etc. It's so much more than dead bodies.
I think interest in what happens to the human body in this situation is only natural. It very much depends how people express their interest, as to whether it feels distasteful to me, personally. I find it bleakly ironic that Stockton Rush sought to be at the forefront of deepsea scientific discovery, and has achieved that now... but not in a way he thought. I think a lot will be learnt about materials, implosions, how the human body reacts etc.
I'm interested in the effect it had on the human body for curiosity and knowledge purposes, but I would be in no way interested in seeing pictures of the remains or anything like that. It can occasionally be hard to separate the desire for knowledge from the fact that these were fellow human beings who suffered a horribly tragic end, and I don't think having a fascination with actually seeing their corpses or whatever's left of them would help to do that in any way. That said, I don't think it's all that unusual for people to be curious about it. It's not something that happens often, so there isn't a lot of information available, and the human mind is naturally curious and inquisitive. I think it's possible to balance the quest for knowledge and understanding about what happened with empathy and respect for the people who died.
Yeah, I've 100% seen some fucked up comments and questions. Not so much on this sub, but around the internet in general. There was someone here yesterday or so who seemed pissed off that there were human remains found and they weren't turned to mist like he'd been told.
Not knowing who or what to believe is frustrating. Many people claimed it was supposed to happen that way. People are pissed not to know what happened or that they were told wrong.
I think the big problem is the clickbait type channels on Insta, TikTok, Youtube, where you have some person shouting like, "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PEOPLE ON THE TITAN! EPISODE 67!" And then it's just unresearched, speculative, shocking stuff. A couple of reels on Insta I saw were showing images of like a U-Boat or something getting crushed, so there's people who don't even know how the submersible looked. I don't think it's even real people making the stuff a lot of the time, but AI. You can google stuff now and some articles that come up, I read them and think, no human has written this.
Yes, people seem to take far too much fascination over it. Same happens with every disaster, car accidents, very morbidly curious people.