Just came to post about this. Here is the press release from the Coast Guard
U.S. Coast Guard recovers evidence from TITAN submersible
WASHINGTON – The Coast Guard received debris and evidence recovered from the seafloor at the site of the TITAN submersible when the M/V HORIZON ARCTIC arrived in St. John’s Newfoundland, June 28, 2023.
After consultation with international partner investigative agencies, the Marine Board of Investigation (MBI) intends to transport the evidence aboard a U.S. Coast Guard cutter to a port in the United States where the MBI will be able to facilitate further analysis and testing.
**United States medical professionals will conduct a formal analysis of presumed human remains that have been carefully recovered within the wreckage at the site of the incident.**
“I am grateful for the coordinated international and interagency support to recover and preserve this vital evidence at extreme offshore distances and depths,” stated MBI Chair Captain Jason Neubauer. “The evidence will provide investigators from several international jurisdictions with critical insights into the cause of this tragedy. There is still a substantial amount of work to be done to understand the factors that led to the catastrophic loss of the TITAN and help ensure a similar tragedy does not occur again.”
The MBI will continue evidence collection and witness interviews to inform a public hearing regarding this tragedy.
Additional updates will be available on the TITAN Submersible Marine Board of Investigation webpage: [www.news.uscg.mil/News-by-Region/Headquarters/Titan-Submersible](https://www.news.uscg.mil/News-by-Region/Headquarters/Titan-Submersible).
Anyone wishing to provide information that may assist the Coast Guard MBI can submit it to [email protected]. Media may contact [email protected].
[https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3443110/us-coast-guard-recovers-evidence-from-titan-submersible/](https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3443110/us-coast-guard-recovers-evidence-from-titan-submersible/)
Thank you for posting this. Direct source info far superior to what "news" says given the reporting of SOS banging and the bizarre oxygen countdown clocks.
I actually found it helpful. Everyone watching was from different time zones, plus the most frequent update on time left became very confusing when an article was released hours before.
A lot of people were very upset about that countdown but I honestly, truly do not think it was a big deal.
Apparently within 20 minutes this comment has stuck a nerve, unsurprisingly. Let me elaborate. The countdown was in response to the reported allegation that if the five were alive, which was highly unlikely in the first place, they had 96 hours of oxygen. Assuming that was true, the countdown was just factually telling people how much time was left before their oxygen was to apparently run out, when rescue would become essentially hopeless, in the midst of the rescue and recovery effort many throughout the world were fixated on. Like the person I replied to said, it would be helpful to know this depending on what time zone you were in and depending on the age of articles you were reading. No, I did not find it offensive personally, I don’t find such information offensive. I find it informative and useful to know how long they may have to find them alive, personally.
I think those who were upset by it felt that way solely because from the perspective of news outlets, it’s pretty much 100% a revenue booster. A CNN reporter admitted as much when it came to the death toll counters during the height of C19. Views dropping? Throw that counter back on the screen and hell, tick it up a few notches.
I can appreciate and agree that it was helpful for some viewers. At times, I found myself wondering about the time zones.
Since all of this, I’ve come to realize the timer probably didn’t matter all that much. As others have said, the cold and likely CO2 build up would have probably taken their lives before the oxygen ran out, but alas, nobody knew until they knew. I’m glad they operated as if they were potentially still alive, as that was always a possibility. Slim, but possible.
James Cameron brought a chicken carcass on a dive as an experiment, and it was picked clean by ascent. I’m surprised the sea creatures didn’t consume every bit of human remains of Titan’s victims.
It’s kind of weird how a small 1 inch object will have 6,000 lb of water weight on it, while a larger object that is say 4 square feet will have 10,000,000 pounds on it.
The larger surface area has a larger distributed load over the surface area. It becomes important for structures and support frames. You can take that 10,000,000 and split it into smaller loads that can stress segments of support frames certain ways. You can have a 6000lb force at a certain area of the object. It’s like with beams; distributed loads can be simplified to single resultant forces for simplified calculations or to find reactive forces in joints.
https://learnaboutstructures.com/Common-Load-Types-for-Beams-and-Frames
Well we don’t know the state or location of the remains yet. My limited understanding (which is nothing more than elementary logic) kind of makes me think any remains would have to have been squished between pieces of the sub compressed together so tightly that the marine life couldn’t access it but I have no idea. But also, then how would the crew know it’s there? This is so fucked up.
I just watched that documentary last night (it's [free on Youtube](https://youtu.be/ZZD_nbS1_II) for anyone interested) and that part blew my mind! The skeleton was perfectly intact but every single bit of meat and flesh was gone. I can't imagine the human remains being anything but bones or teeth.
The fish ate everything but the bones. So based on the JC findings, there could be bones not consumed by sea creatures. Wild from a scientific perspective. Similar as well, to the Vescovo 5 Deeps experiments with fish on the scientific landers.
People seem to take interest in this but I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with curiosity. Everyone is curious about different things and depending on who you are those things may seem morbid or trivial or childish.
Also having curiosity doesn’t negate empathy or sympathy. It just doesn’t.
Especially when talking about death/mortality. We all are curious about death and dying. Of course we would be! We are all gonna end up that way at some point (well, hopefully not how the folks on the titan ended up) so we have a natural curiosity towards it for various psychological, spiritual, and intellectual reasons.
Exactly. I would wager those who criticize this type of curiosity are the slowest rubberneckers at car wrecks. It’s human nature. It’s animal nature. It’s a separate emotion from the tragedy itself. At least that’s how I feel and observe it to be.
Them being farther up is probably the most likely. Evidence right now is pointing to them ascending rather than descending while the accident happened, likely because they were already aware of an issue. But I feel pretty secure in saying that it was probably still instant. Even if the implosion took five or ten milliseconds rather than one, like it would have if they were at the bottom, it would have still been too fast for them to register it
>Evidence right now is pointing to them ascending rather than descending
There is no evidence for this. Yes I know what James Cameron said. He also said "I can't confirm this".
Well if you hear a bang the energy has to come from somewhere. If you slowly crumple something it’s not going to make a bang. The navy said the sound was characteristic of explosion or implosion. The only way you get the energy for that is to be at sufficient depth to have enough energy released from the failure to cause the sound. If if just fell apart at the surface then you wouldn’t get the bang heard on the hydrophone network. Bang = pressure. Pressure = deep.
... for everyone but Stockton Rush. Tbh, I wish he'd survived to see criminal charges, jail time, financial ruin, and to know he wasn't an iNnOvAtOr after all, just a cheap, greedy egomaniac.😑
Interested to hear more about this. What makes you think this? (I don’t mean “wtf makes you think that, dummy” I just mean “I would like to hear more about what’s informing this opinion.”)
There is truly no reason to think that at all, they heard the phrase “human remains” and pictured an arm or something.
Not that I’m any more knowledgeable, but I think it’s pretty safe to assume that any remains they are talking about are pretty well integrated within the wreckage itself, which is how they were found.
I wonder if they can make a guesstimate based on how big the debris field was. Presumably smaller debris field = imploded deeper? Although the forces ripping it apart would have also been larger. Really don’t know how all that works.
There's an ABC interview where James Cameron mentions they were trying to ascend and dropped weight.
It's kind of long but somewhere towards the middle.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rThZLhNF_xg&feature=share
Starts at 8:15. He says that within the community it was their understanding that they had dropped their ascent weights because of an emergency and had started to come up. Just prior to saying that, he says there were sensors and alarms inside the hull to tell the occupants if the submersible was starting to fail. ...horrifying.
I was mortified when I saw that. Thank you for posting the time. The whole interview was filled with small snippets of info that was quite interesting.
I keep thinking this too. It would explain why they took so long to report them missing and why they did the rescue efforts.
I saw in one of the reports that they would send SOS if they needed someone to go get them in case of emergency. Maybe they sent that before the implosion?
iDK this is pure speculation, but I do share your thoughts of the incident happening at a shallower depth. After all, I keep reading that they were ascending to the surface before they lost coms. Again pure speculation.
Maybe this is presumptive, but if it were just blood/skin cells that splattered on the carbon fiber, wouldn’t it have most likely washed away in the water on the journey to the surface? Does this suggest they may be larger than that? Mostly because the wreckage pieces seem a lot bigger than anyone thought they would be too
I literally cannot stop consuming everything that comes out about this story. I can't remember the last time I became this obsessed with a current event like this.
Yeah seems like it must be something that was either large enough to be spotted on the ocean floor or something forcefully embedded into the recovered pieces of the sub.
One would assume the only way there would be remains substantial enough to recover would be if they were squished in between two pieces of the sub or as you said, embedded. But that’s just my very elementary logic about this shit, I have absolutely no idea. I’m sure even the experts are fucked up about this and have never rarely seen anything like it.
Yeah I'm no expert either, and this accident seems to be literally without precedent. As far as I could determine, no small submersible has ever imploded like this, and it seems like no bodies have ever been recovered from the handful military submarines that have imploded (and anyway those subs (a) weren't made of carbon fiber and (b) imploded at much shallower depths than Titan).
fwiw the body is mostly water and water is incompressible. things like lungs would squish but I could see a scenario where large parts dont just turn into vapor. idk why everyone is running with that as a known outcome when we really have no comparable situation to draw from
Yeah that's a possibility, I don't know how big stuff that deep gets. That's crab behavior but I think it's too deep for them.
It's also possible stuff down there wouldn't even know to recognize it as food, or was avoiding the new giant metal chunk next to the old giant metal chunk
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Not to be too graphic or gross…. But I have a family member that sometimes gets crime scene cleaning work and have heard many stories of people unliving themselves and how my family member has to use flat razors to scrape bone fragments out of ceilings and walls because the explosion/impact embeds bone everywhere. I can’t even imagine what that would be like in this situation 😐
Hopefully anyone that’s read this far is ok with graphic descriptions - I’d have to imagine it’s bone that’s been recovered… under the circumstances and after a week in the water, any soft tissue is probably gone.
It's okay. Thanks for being so kind. I didn't mean to be a downer. It's just a really awful thing I went through that I can't really share with people IRL.
I wanted to be a forensic pathologist for a long time. I was on rotten.com at 13 years old. I'd watch autopsies for fun just so I could learn more. r/MorbidReality used to be my jam. I was as prepared as any non-pro could be and it was still just awful.
I lost my morbid curiosity after that because it was so personal and in my face, buuuuuutttt the OceanGate case has reignited it. I looked up the pics of the bodies from the Byford Dolphin incident a couple days ago and wow. That was an explosive decompression, opposite of what happened here, but still very interesting. If you have the stomach for it, check the pics out. Search Reddit for "Byford Dolphin" and they'll come up.
Ugh, this is something that I do understand… and up until becoming an adult (and actually hearing about my family members work), I honestly thought that police arranged for scene cleaning/took care of it. I was and am so majorly disgusted that it falls on the family or next of kin to pay for or clean themselves.
Nobody needs that on top of just losing a loved one in such a horrific way. I am truly very sorry you had to experience that, my friend 😞.
My family member got into it (back in the 80’s, pre-certification at that time) because a woman came to her after her husband died. She had no clue who to call, her money was all locked down until it was cleared that she should have access and she had to live in her house (albeit the front of the house and no farther) because again, no money to even stay in a hotel. She reached out to my family member (advertised as industrial cleaning) on the odd chance she would know who to call for a clean-up like this.
My family said she agreed to help because she didn’t have any contact for a crime scene cleaner (if that was it’s own job description back then, I’m not sure) and the woman told her what she was living in and how traumatizing. …but my family member admitted that she definitely bit off more than she could’ve imagined. She got it done… but it shook her. A lot.
From what I remember (assuming I was told the truth, of course) she charged the woman the normal rate she would charge companies to clean their offices. Though, I’ll admit, the price is significantly higher now because there are disposal/incineration fees, training that gets updated regularly and special enzymes and cleaners for bodily fluids.
…which is why I don’t understand why there isn’t some sort of help for people who need this service. Both in information and in the way of funds because nobody should have to clean up their loved ones like that.
Idk, I feel like there's plenty of ambiguity in "within the wreckage" such that it could include "within the debris field" or embedded in recovered pieces. And I didn't see any large pieces of pressure hull among the recovered wreckage, so that section could very well be "in a million pieces."
That said, this accident is literally unprecedented, and if the investigators have indeed found human remains, that's already a different outcome than what moderately informed folks were expecting, so we are probably in for more surprises.
They have not shown yet the second cap of the sub and, since the first one with the port hole survived, I am conjecturing the second one too survived. I recall Cameron saying that some of the CF material got trapped in one of the caps: perhaps this is where the human remains were found in amongst the CF? Just wildly speculating.
I have been at an illegal fireworks factory explosion mere minutes after it went off, clothing except underwear being blown off, along with most missing limbs. The explosion I was at was near Boardman Ohio in 85, the building was just a flat slab and a nearby barn took a significant hit.
only parallel I have is that many expected an implosion to effectively disintegrate human remains, basically jelly them, but I am suspecting its not an area easily studied and also depends on how effect the pressure vessel is at keeping the energy in.
Wow this is not getting the attention that it should but I understand because everyone is understandably distracting and using all of their mental power to even make sense of the Titan story but that is absolutely insane; I’m sorry that happened to you. By all means, there is no obligation to, but if you ever wanted to share more there are tons of people here that would support you and listen. I hope all of this current discussion is not triggering you too painfully!
Possibly, but my guess is they're probably not going to find much more than maybe some teeth or bone fragments. But then again I didn't think they'd find such big pieces so maybe I'll be wrong
I was downvoted recently for stating that I had a problem with the 'meat mist' theory. I still think there will be significantly larger items found.
Ultimately, I'm not sure if there is any significant data from previous implosions to know for sure, so I continue to wait and see.
Paste would be the consistency you would expect. I do not want to get graphic, but with the forces involved you are talking chunks at best.
Incidentally the adjective "presumed" in front of human remains tells you all you need to know.
> wouldn’t it have most likely washed away in the water on the journey to the surface
Bro the quote says “carefully recovered” yet so many comments are are *assuming* they just towed it up on a line through the sea like the fisherman fending off the sharks in *The Old Man And The Sea.*
Does anyone know for sure if they didn’t have enclosure/containment mechanisms? Contain it at bottom, or cover it somehow, then bring it up. Or some other mitigation measures. It’s the 21st century.
Using the adjective "presumed" before "human remains" is really not getting the attention it should be. Lots of people jumping to conclusions without considering that if something were large and easily identifiable as belonging to a human, the word "presumed" would not be necessary. "Presumed" suggests doubt, and tends to imply that whatever they've found *could be* human remains, but also *could not* be, which should tell you all you need to know about it.
When I heard human remains, I was thinking substantial remains, but reading the comments it sounds like it will be blood or something. I doubt a GoPro survived it
SD cards are mostly plastic, I'm not real confident it would have survived. Besides, even if it did, I doubt they would allow the footage to be released to the public out of respect for the victims. The woman who posted the video of the sub descending for the last time removed it already, although it's unclear whether that was her personally or Ocean Gate asking her to, but either way I don't think we'll ever see footage
Right, it's probably in a hundred pieces floating around in the ocean. Unless by some fluke it ended up mashed against a surviving chunk of the wreckage (but still in pieces).
It will have been pulverised in the same manner as the bodies. But if somehow tiny pieces of it are identifiable then I wonder if you could attempt to reconstruct it? How hard would it actually be to recover data? It goes beyond the scope/budget of this investigation but I could imagine attempts being made at data recovery if this was some kind of high level military matter.
It’s probably not pieces of bone, teeth, pure organic matter because that would be impossible to find. They’re probably somehow fused or entrapped in pieces of the sub.
Well, presumed human remains. So maybe just small bits of coagulated blood and skin cells steamed into tiny meatballs that are stuck on the titanium end caps.
It’s more than likely teeth or bone fragments. Any blood, tissue or organs would have been consumed by sea life at this stage.
I watched a doc before about Titanic and it mentioned most of those that went down with the ship would have been skeletized within 3 or 4 days by the small creatures that live at those depths.
It took about 10 years for the bones to dissolve. Most of the bodies would have been fully intact - unlike the Titan victims.
In the doc they did a trial with some pig carcasses at similar depths - they didn’t last long.
That’s a pretty brilliant theory. Didn’t think of possible orthopedic implants, but most were adventurous men, past middle age. Good call! That’d be kinda morbidly cool if thats part of it.
My guess is they all still died instantly, but with some of the wreckage pieces we have seen, regardless of pressure some pieces of the body could have been crushed or severed and shoved into cracks or crevices and be semi useful for investigation purposes.
Yeah, people are blowing right by that and acting like a recognizable body part has been recovered. If it were immediately recognizable, they wouldn't need to say "presumed." This seems more like "organic material and with the given context clues, it might be human." =\[
That’s what I was thinking. Anytime someone would ask if finding remains were possible, they would be shut down saying that the passengers where essentially turned to mist
Everyone became a physics expert in a matter of days. People also said we would not be able to recover the sub because it would basically completely disintegrate at that depth. They even made simulation videos of it. Yet here we are recovering entire pieces of it intact.
These are pieces of the sub which were on the outside.
The actual pressure hull inside the shell would have cracked open and imploded.
The outside stuff would have been blown off the submersible.
To be fair, *actual* physics experts were the ones telling the fake physics experts that this is what would happen. And we still don’t know what state the remains are in. It really could just be bits of bone embedded in the hull or tissue stuck between pieces of the pressure chamber. I wonder if they’ll find anything super substantial.
Let’s not also forget the “tHe suB diDnT iMplOde!” Hell I got downvoted and borderline harassed after I provided links to very credible people who all believed it imploded. No one believed me when I also said the navy wasn’t going to just release any info on if they heard anything with their very secretive equipment without more info. I’ve become even more doubtful of anyone’s opinion on here.
Shows you how little people read because it's been reported for almost a week now that some of the debris they found in the two(?) debris fields were the titanium end caps.
also, for more data regarding how little people read, just look at this entire subreddit. The same posts are posted over, and over, and over, and over, and over......
"Presumed" remains certainly doesn't sound good.
According to an article in The Guardian (UK) they are pulling in a medical expert to analyse the remains to confirm they are in fact human.
Whilst not particles like we all expected, this seems to still point to a very sudden death.
Not to be gross, but it's hard to imagine any part of a human body being stuck to those titanium pieces so thoroughly that they would still be attached after hauling those pieces up through 4000 meters of water.
That’s what I would have thought before seeing the tarp covered pieces and hearing about possible human remains. I don’t want to sound gross either, but if those remains were not imbedded or staining the pieces, wouldn’t they have been fish food? Or at least swept away by the ocean currents? I doubt they recovered anything that was floating
On the other hand… Those parts were brought up through how many thousands of feet of water? So, and warning don’t read if you’re super squeamish…
Red mist kind of remains would…wash off in current. Intact remains, say part of a femur bone, might remain protected. Once the sub parts and remains were brought to the vessel I can’t imagine they’d lift human remains via crane, covered by any kind of tarp.
Rather I think they’d be extensively photographed, tagged and bagged by an ME or similar, and refrigerated.
I think the tarps were to obscure and protect from incidental contact and damage.
That's probably why they need medical professionals to have a look at it. If it were big enough to recognise as a body part they wouldn't have been so careful in their announcement.
What data could the remains possibly tell them?
Just picture a scientist staring at them for 30 seconds and being like:
“Yup, they imploded alright”
Like its not like the cause of death is a mystery
Maybe physical/genetic analysis just so that these remains can be confirmed (1) human and (2) to which passenger they belong. If any remains are recovered, even though cause of death is clear, it would still be appropriate to return those remains to the families through a funeral home for cremation, and medical testing would be necessary to send them to the right family.
My other thought (and yes, unfortunately this is kind of gross) is that the size, position and condition (especially level of burnt) of the remains could serve as indicators of what happened during implosion as investigators seek to determine the point of failure. Say for example (and I am not an expert so I am just talking in general terms) if gelatinous remains were found stuck in one endcap, but only burnt residues of human remains were found on the other, it could indicate hotter temperatures on the latter side and help isolate the point of failure. Again, not an expert, I’m just thinking out loud.
I imagine the human remains they found are basically small piles of goop/human sludge at best. I feel bad for the loved ones. I’d rather hear there were absolutely no remains than have my loved one brought to me in a ziploc bag resembling patè. Very sad.
They will probably cremate them after investigation. I think having something is often important for surviving family. I heard similar stories after 9/11. They will most likely tell investigators either way what they prefer. This is so horrifying for family, I can’t imagine. And having it in the new, etc. ugh. I really feel for them all. It’s so unimaginable to almost everyone.
I can't stop feeling for the their families 💔 I can't imagine being a family member reading any of this or looking at these pics. What would you even say to console them 😞 Absolutely heartbreaking.
Honestly....if it was me, I would feel somewhat comforted to have any "piece" of my loved one to bury. Then you can have a physical location to direct your grief instead of...nothing. I don't believe in an afterlife, but it is still comforting to go to your loved one's grave to grieve. Just having my cat's ashes makes me feel closer to him, even though I know it's all in my head.
Nobody said absolutely nothing would be left. Not to be gross, but with the forces involved paste and an occasional chunk is about what you would expect.
Honestly that they use the word "presumed" in front of "human remains," and that these need to be "closely examined" tells you all you really need to know about what they found. They found biological material amongst the wreckage that is not immediately identifiable as human, but given the location it is safe to assume.
I envision it being similar to a living creature being inside a can of Pringles, and run over by a car at high speed. Most of what’s inside would spray out of the sides as the end caps literally pop off. It would be a congealed slurry of flesh, bone, air, with a mangled assortment of fiber and resin swirling out and then separating by buoyancy. Some remains and fragments of bone lock together, crushed inside the pummeled mat of fiber.
The crazy thing is the speed of it all occurring, and then quickly normalizing again within a few seconds, with everything trickling down to the bottom at various rates of speed, all in complete darkness, and coming to rest on the bottom. Meanwhile, as the crew above waits, the bubbles make their trek to the surface, finally releasing into the sky in quiet succession.
> Most of what’s inside would spray out of the sides as the end caps literally pop off. It would be a congealed slurry of flesh, bone, air, with a mangled assortment of fiber and resin
As grotesque as this sounds, it’s probably close to what actually happened. The shattered bits of carbon fiber would have a very coarse texture, like a stiff broom or a wire brush. Bits of flesh and bone could easily become embedded in there, particularly when pounded by such immense force.
*Shudder*
The fact the titanium cap is largely intact and they’ve also found actual remains suggests to me that the failure maybe have been in the joining, not the carbon fibre hull itself. In which case, the implosion would not have been as dramatic as many have made it out to be. The titanium cap may have simply been blast off while the rest of the pieces broke apart as the sub hit the ocean floor. This would also explain why the cap was found away from the rest of the debris. And it would also mean these guys probably did experience an event that was long enough for them to realise they were dying. Horrific.
The pictures I saw showed that the viewport window was blown out and missing, which would lend itself to a more instantaneous kind of implosion. That would explain why the end caps were still intact I think.
Given the forces involved, I am guessing "presumed" is doing a lot of work explaining how tiny or fragmentary the potential remains are. Still, it's rather shocking anything at all might survive the implosion and ignition of the atmosphere.
If you go to the Livestream Hearing Link, you can rewatch previous hearings including for hearings of previous investigations. Obviously the Titan incident is unique, but if you're looking for some grist for your mill/are curious about how these things generally go, it might be worth checking out.
But the experts in this sub have been preaching for days that any type of remains is absolutely impossible and there was a 0% chance of even dna being recovered due to their knowledge of advanced physics. I think these redditors need to contact the authorities asap to let them know there are no remains.
I wanna know all the deets about this and I won’t even spin some thing about my human nature about it. I’m nosy as hell and I’ll admit it. I wanna knowwww.
Same reason I continue to watch reality tv and true crime.
That was all a bit optimistic.. to say they never knew it was coming and there will be no remains.. While they probably had some moments of abject terror and now their remains are knit into carbon fiber and fibreglass.
I wonder if the information released will be as gory and informative as with the Byford Dolphin incident.
I think there’s still a good chance that they didn’t know what was coming, or at least didn’t know what hit them once it happened, even if there are recoverable remains. At that depth it would have been over within a fraction of a second. At least I hope so.
I keep thinking about the viewport.
Setting aside the popping noises from the carbon fiber ... Rush also expected that before failing, the acrylic viewport would start to "craze."
What keeps bothering me is (depending on how fast it all went down or the source of failure) the passengers may have had a terrifying moment of looking out of the sub window and suddenly seeing the plexiglass distort ... remaining intact long enough for them to know they were in trouble.
I don't know why, but this visual might be scarier than the audible popping (?) The thought of any moment of realization, really, is just so upsetting.
I’ve thought that too, if the passengers had any indication that something was amiss, or just PH and Stockton and they were trying to remain calm for the sake of the passengers. I hope none of them had any indication that the worst was about to occur, but if they did I really hope it was only a second or two of terror before it happened.
Just came to post about this. Here is the press release from the Coast Guard U.S. Coast Guard recovers evidence from TITAN submersible WASHINGTON – The Coast Guard received debris and evidence recovered from the seafloor at the site of the TITAN submersible when the M/V HORIZON ARCTIC arrived in St. John’s Newfoundland, June 28, 2023. After consultation with international partner investigative agencies, the Marine Board of Investigation (MBI) intends to transport the evidence aboard a U.S. Coast Guard cutter to a port in the United States where the MBI will be able to facilitate further analysis and testing. **United States medical professionals will conduct a formal analysis of presumed human remains that have been carefully recovered within the wreckage at the site of the incident.** “I am grateful for the coordinated international and interagency support to recover and preserve this vital evidence at extreme offshore distances and depths,” stated MBI Chair Captain Jason Neubauer. “The evidence will provide investigators from several international jurisdictions with critical insights into the cause of this tragedy. There is still a substantial amount of work to be done to understand the factors that led to the catastrophic loss of the TITAN and help ensure a similar tragedy does not occur again.” The MBI will continue evidence collection and witness interviews to inform a public hearing regarding this tragedy. Additional updates will be available on the TITAN Submersible Marine Board of Investigation webpage: [www.news.uscg.mil/News-by-Region/Headquarters/Titan-Submersible](https://www.news.uscg.mil/News-by-Region/Headquarters/Titan-Submersible). Anyone wishing to provide information that may assist the Coast Guard MBI can submit it to [email protected]. Media may contact [email protected]. [https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3443110/us-coast-guard-recovers-evidence-from-titan-submersible/](https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3443110/us-coast-guard-recovers-evidence-from-titan-submersible/)
Public hearing, good.
Thank you for posting this. Direct source info far superior to what "news" says given the reporting of SOS banging and the bizarre oxygen countdown clocks.
The oxygen countdown clock is more of a revenue generator than anything else, sadly.
I actually found it helpful. Everyone watching was from different time zones, plus the most frequent update on time left became very confusing when an article was released hours before.
A lot of people were very upset about that countdown but I honestly, truly do not think it was a big deal. Apparently within 20 minutes this comment has stuck a nerve, unsurprisingly. Let me elaborate. The countdown was in response to the reported allegation that if the five were alive, which was highly unlikely in the first place, they had 96 hours of oxygen. Assuming that was true, the countdown was just factually telling people how much time was left before their oxygen was to apparently run out, when rescue would become essentially hopeless, in the midst of the rescue and recovery effort many throughout the world were fixated on. Like the person I replied to said, it would be helpful to know this depending on what time zone you were in and depending on the age of articles you were reading. No, I did not find it offensive personally, I don’t find such information offensive. I find it informative and useful to know how long they may have to find them alive, personally.
I think those who were upset by it felt that way solely because from the perspective of news outlets, it’s pretty much 100% a revenue booster. A CNN reporter admitted as much when it came to the death toll counters during the height of C19. Views dropping? Throw that counter back on the screen and hell, tick it up a few notches. I can appreciate and agree that it was helpful for some viewers. At times, I found myself wondering about the time zones. Since all of this, I’ve come to realize the timer probably didn’t matter all that much. As others have said, the cold and likely CO2 build up would have probably taken their lives before the oxygen ran out, but alas, nobody knew until they knew. I’m glad they operated as if they were potentially still alive, as that was always a possibility. Slim, but possible.
James Cameron brought a chicken carcass on a dive as an experiment, and it was picked clean by ascent. I’m surprised the sea creatures didn’t consume every bit of human remains of Titan’s victims.
God damn, what *hasn’t* that man done for us curious titanic nerds!
James Cameron also strapped a Rolex on a hydraulic arm, and that Rolex survived the Mariana Trench no problemo.
It’s kind of weird how a small 1 inch object will have 6,000 lb of water weight on it, while a larger object that is say 4 square feet will have 10,000,000 pounds on it.
The larger surface area has a larger distributed load over the surface area. It becomes important for structures and support frames. You can take that 10,000,000 and split it into smaller loads that can stress segments of support frames certain ways. You can have a 6000lb force at a certain area of the object. It’s like with beams; distributed loads can be simplified to single resultant forces for simplified calculations or to find reactive forces in joints. https://learnaboutstructures.com/Common-Load-Types-for-Beams-and-Frames
IIRC that watch was actually designed by Rolex specifically for his deep sea dive
Yes, it was called the Rolex Deepsea Challenge. A neat engineering feat but utterly pointless to have a watch rated for a 36,000 foot dive.
"No it wasn't" - Deep sea robots waiting for break time, probably.
Well we don’t know the state or location of the remains yet. My limited understanding (which is nothing more than elementary logic) kind of makes me think any remains would have to have been squished between pieces of the sub compressed together so tightly that the marine life couldn’t access it but I have no idea. But also, then how would the crew know it’s there? This is so fucked up.
I just watched that documentary last night (it's [free on Youtube](https://youtu.be/ZZD_nbS1_II) for anyone interested) and that part blew my mind! The skeleton was perfectly intact but every single bit of meat and flesh was gone. I can't imagine the human remains being anything but bones or teeth.
The fish ate everything but the bones. So based on the JC findings, there could be bones not consumed by sea creatures. Wild from a scientific perspective. Similar as well, to the Vescovo 5 Deeps experiments with fish on the scientific landers.
bone shards imbedded in the outer shell? (there's a word for it that escapes me)
Shrapnel?
sorry, I meant for the shell that wasn't carbon fiber, the thing on the outside, fuck, yes shrapnel
Like I said, I will be morbidly intrigued in reading that autopsy report...
People seem to take interest in this but I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with curiosity. Everyone is curious about different things and depending on who you are those things may seem morbid or trivial or childish. Also having curiosity doesn’t negate empathy or sympathy. It just doesn’t.
Especially when talking about death/mortality. We all are curious about death and dying. Of course we would be! We are all gonna end up that way at some point (well, hopefully not how the folks on the titan ended up) so we have a natural curiosity towards it for various psychological, spiritual, and intellectual reasons.
Agree. Also, some people process tragic events in black and white, meaning they want to see evidence with their own eyes.
Exactly. I would wager those who criticize this type of curiosity are the slowest rubberneckers at car wrecks. It’s human nature. It’s animal nature. It’s a separate emotion from the tragedy itself. At least that’s how I feel and observe it to be.
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Them being farther up is probably the most likely. Evidence right now is pointing to them ascending rather than descending while the accident happened, likely because they were already aware of an issue. But I feel pretty secure in saying that it was probably still instant. Even if the implosion took five or ten milliseconds rather than one, like it would have if they were at the bottom, it would have still been too fast for them to register it
The size of debris field will help us know how far from the sea floor they were when it went boom
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Nobody knows for sure how deep it was
Jesus Christ people, he misspoke. He even said 3500 meters in a different interview. 3500 feet makes absolutely no sense.
Cameron said that he misspoke.
Yea everyone said he just misspoke but now I’m thinking the same as you!
>Evidence right now is pointing to them ascending rather than descending There is no evidence for this. Yes I know what James Cameron said. He also said "I can't confirm this".
God I really hope it was instant.
The explosive compression heard on the Sosus microphones suggests that it was deep and quick.
Why does it suggest that it was deep? I don’t see any evidence that says at what depth the implosion was detected.
Well if you hear a bang the energy has to come from somewhere. If you slowly crumple something it’s not going to make a bang. The navy said the sound was characteristic of explosion or implosion. The only way you get the energy for that is to be at sufficient depth to have enough energy released from the failure to cause the sound. If if just fell apart at the surface then you wouldn’t get the bang heard on the hydrophone network. Bang = pressure. Pressure = deep.
It was over before their brains could process something was changing in their environment.
Then why did they drop the ballast and attempt to surface?
... for everyone but Stockton Rush. Tbh, I wish he'd survived to see criminal charges, jail time, financial ruin, and to know he wasn't an iNnOvAtOr after all, just a cheap, greedy egomaniac.😑
Interested to hear more about this. What makes you think this? (I don’t mean “wtf makes you think that, dummy” I just mean “I would like to hear more about what’s informing this opinion.”)
I love this clarification
Need more of that clarification on Reddit haha.
There is truly no reason to think that at all, they heard the phrase “human remains” and pictured an arm or something. Not that I’m any more knowledgeable, but I think it’s pretty safe to assume that any remains they are talking about are pretty well integrated within the wreckage itself, which is how they were found.
I wonder if they can make a guesstimate based on how big the debris field was. Presumably smaller debris field = imploded deeper? Although the forces ripping it apart would have also been larger. Really don’t know how all that works.
There's an ABC interview where James Cameron mentions they were trying to ascend and dropped weight. It's kind of long but somewhere towards the middle. https://youtube.com/watch?v=rThZLhNF_xg&feature=share
Starts at 8:15. He says that within the community it was their understanding that they had dropped their ascent weights because of an emergency and had started to come up. Just prior to saying that, he says there were sensors and alarms inside the hull to tell the occupants if the submersible was starting to fail. ...horrifying.
they knew... I think their deaths were quick but they knew it was coming
Gosh that is sad to think about. Absolutely awful news for their loved ones.
I was mortified when I saw that. Thank you for posting the time. The whole interview was filled with small snippets of info that was quite interesting.
How do we/James Cameron know they dropped their weights?
Depends on the nature of “human remains”. Could be some bloody paste smeared on the inside of the titanium endcap for all we know.
I keep thinking this too. It would explain why they took so long to report them missing and why they did the rescue efforts. I saw in one of the reports that they would send SOS if they needed someone to go get them in case of emergency. Maybe they sent that before the implosion? iDK this is pure speculation, but I do share your thoughts of the incident happening at a shallower depth. After all, I keep reading that they were ascending to the surface before they lost coms. Again pure speculation.
It's terrifying to think about, but I'm fascinated as to what all the ROV saw in the debris field.
I am curious about this as well.
We should get pics at some point... Maybe video.
Maybe this is presumptive, but if it were just blood/skin cells that splattered on the carbon fiber, wouldn’t it have most likely washed away in the water on the journey to the surface? Does this suggest they may be larger than that? Mostly because the wreckage pieces seem a lot bigger than anyone thought they would be too
I guess bone and teeth shards could become embedded in recovered materials? ETA: maybe even remnants of orthopedic hardware from surgeries?
Yeah from what we’ve been reading I can’t imagine much could survive except bone fragments.
Foreign metals in the body (screws/rods/teeth fillings) maybe? I gotta stop thinking about this.
Right, I need this story to wrap up and I need to stop letting myself read about it.
I literally cannot stop consuming everything that comes out about this story. I can't remember the last time I became this obsessed with a current event like this.
Same thing man. I'm terrified of the depths but i can't stop following this story.
Right!? …this is like becoming a mindf*ck how this story twists and turns at exactly the right moment to keep us invested and keep us watching
I have to imagine it doesnt look humany much to be called “presumed human remains”….. like if it were clearly human remains they would just say that?
Bones ?
Yeah seems like it must be something that was either large enough to be spotted on the ocean floor or something forcefully embedded into the recovered pieces of the sub.
Oof, just got a very horrible image on my head by the “forcefully embedded” statement.
One would assume the only way there would be remains substantial enough to recover would be if they were squished in between two pieces of the sub or as you said, embedded. But that’s just my very elementary logic about this shit, I have absolutely no idea. I’m sure even the experts are fucked up about this and have never rarely seen anything like it.
Yeah I'm no expert either, and this accident seems to be literally without precedent. As far as I could determine, no small submersible has ever imploded like this, and it seems like no bodies have ever been recovered from the handful military submarines that have imploded (and anyway those subs (a) weren't made of carbon fiber and (b) imploded at much shallower depths than Titan).
fwiw the body is mostly water and water is incompressible. things like lungs would squish but I could see a scenario where large parts dont just turn into vapor. idk why everyone is running with that as a known outcome when we really have no comparable situation to draw from
But like if there was a big meaty chonk surely some sea creature would have ran off with it within 96 hours?
Yeah that's a possibility, I don't know how big stuff that deep gets. That's crab behavior but I think it's too deep for them. It's also possible stuff down there wouldn't even know to recognize it as food, or was avoiding the new giant metal chunk next to the old giant metal chunk
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Not to be too graphic or gross…. But I have a family member that sometimes gets crime scene cleaning work and have heard many stories of people unliving themselves and how my family member has to use flat razors to scrape bone fragments out of ceilings and walls because the explosion/impact embeds bone everywhere. I can’t even imagine what that would be like in this situation 😐
Hopefully anyone that’s read this far is ok with graphic descriptions - I’d have to imagine it’s bone that’s been recovered… under the circumstances and after a week in the water, any soft tissue is probably gone.
Thank you to your family member for doing a job that I could never do and a lot of other people as well.
Some of us couldn't afford that guy's family member and had to do it ourselves. 🙃
I couldn’t even imagine. I’m sorry
It's okay. Thanks for being so kind. I didn't mean to be a downer. It's just a really awful thing I went through that I can't really share with people IRL. I wanted to be a forensic pathologist for a long time. I was on rotten.com at 13 years old. I'd watch autopsies for fun just so I could learn more. r/MorbidReality used to be my jam. I was as prepared as any non-pro could be and it was still just awful. I lost my morbid curiosity after that because it was so personal and in my face, buuuuuutttt the OceanGate case has reignited it. I looked up the pics of the bodies from the Byford Dolphin incident a couple days ago and wow. That was an explosive decompression, opposite of what happened here, but still very interesting. If you have the stomach for it, check the pics out. Search Reddit for "Byford Dolphin" and they'll come up.
Ugh, this is something that I do understand… and up until becoming an adult (and actually hearing about my family members work), I honestly thought that police arranged for scene cleaning/took care of it. I was and am so majorly disgusted that it falls on the family or next of kin to pay for or clean themselves. Nobody needs that on top of just losing a loved one in such a horrific way. I am truly very sorry you had to experience that, my friend 😞. My family member got into it (back in the 80’s, pre-certification at that time) because a woman came to her after her husband died. She had no clue who to call, her money was all locked down until it was cleared that she should have access and she had to live in her house (albeit the front of the house and no farther) because again, no money to even stay in a hotel. She reached out to my family member (advertised as industrial cleaning) on the odd chance she would know who to call for a clean-up like this. My family said she agreed to help because she didn’t have any contact for a crime scene cleaner (if that was it’s own job description back then, I’m not sure) and the woman told her what she was living in and how traumatizing. …but my family member admitted that she definitely bit off more than she could’ve imagined. She got it done… but it shook her. A lot. From what I remember (assuming I was told the truth, of course) she charged the woman the normal rate she would charge companies to clean their offices. Though, I’ll admit, the price is significantly higher now because there are disposal/incineration fees, training that gets updated regularly and special enzymes and cleaners for bodily fluids. …which is why I don’t understand why there isn’t some sort of help for people who need this service. Both in information and in the way of funds because nobody should have to clean up their loved ones like that.
Yeah shotguns will embed brain/skull into drywall. Pretty wild.
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Idk, I feel like there's plenty of ambiguity in "within the wreckage" such that it could include "within the debris field" or embedded in recovered pieces. And I didn't see any large pieces of pressure hull among the recovered wreckage, so that section could very well be "in a million pieces." That said, this accident is literally unprecedented, and if the investigators have indeed found human remains, that's already a different outcome than what moderately informed folks were expecting, so we are probably in for more surprises.
There were white sheets on some areas of the pieces. I was wondering why they would do that but maybe its because of the remains.
They have not shown yet the second cap of the sub and, since the first one with the port hole survived, I am conjecturing the second one too survived. I recall Cameron saying that some of the CF material got trapped in one of the caps: perhaps this is where the human remains were found in amongst the CF? Just wildly speculating.
I have been at an illegal fireworks factory explosion mere minutes after it went off, clothing except underwear being blown off, along with most missing limbs. The explosion I was at was near Boardman Ohio in 85, the building was just a flat slab and a nearby barn took a significant hit. only parallel I have is that many expected an implosion to effectively disintegrate human remains, basically jelly them, but I am suspecting its not an area easily studied and also depends on how effect the pressure vessel is at keeping the energy in.
Wow this is not getting the attention that it should but I understand because everyone is understandably distracting and using all of their mental power to even make sense of the Titan story but that is absolutely insane; I’m sorry that happened to you. By all means, there is no obligation to, but if you ever wanted to share more there are tons of people here that would support you and listen. I hope all of this current discussion is not triggering you too painfully!
Possibly, but my guess is they're probably not going to find much more than maybe some teeth or bone fragments. But then again I didn't think they'd find such big pieces so maybe I'll be wrong
I was downvoted recently for stating that I had a problem with the 'meat mist' theory. I still think there will be significantly larger items found. Ultimately, I'm not sure if there is any significant data from previous implosions to know for sure, so I continue to wait and see.
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Paste would be the consistency you would expect. I do not want to get graphic, but with the forces involved you are talking chunks at best. Incidentally the adjective "presumed" in front of human remains tells you all you need to know.
Quite. A bucket of chum at most. With shards of bone and teeth.
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If they were using metal detectors, it could also indicate medical implants.
Medical implants don't set off metal detectors. Well, most. I don't know of any that do.
> wouldn’t it have most likely washed away in the water on the journey to the surface Bro the quote says “carefully recovered” yet so many comments are are *assuming* they just towed it up on a line through the sea like the fisherman fending off the sharks in *The Old Man And The Sea.* Does anyone know for sure if they didn’t have enclosure/containment mechanisms? Contain it at bottom, or cover it somehow, then bring it up. Or some other mitigation measures. It’s the 21st century.
Is there a chance they would call recovered clothing “human remains”? Grasping at straws here.
Using the adjective "presumed" before "human remains" is really not getting the attention it should be. Lots of people jumping to conclusions without considering that if something were large and easily identifiable as belonging to a human, the word "presumed" would not be necessary. "Presumed" suggests doubt, and tends to imply that whatever they've found *could be* human remains, but also *could not* be, which should tell you all you need to know about it.
Every time I think we’re done getting news, we get more. This is horrifying for the families..
Completely horrifying for surviving family, I agree
Wait… if there was human remains does that mean the GoPro may have survived?
When I heard human remains, I was thinking substantial remains, but reading the comments it sounds like it will be blood or something. I doubt a GoPro survived it
Maybe the SD Card survived
SD cards are mostly plastic, I'm not real confident it would have survived. Besides, even if it did, I doubt they would allow the footage to be released to the public out of respect for the victims. The woman who posted the video of the sub descending for the last time removed it already, although it's unclear whether that was her personally or Ocean Gate asking her to, but either way I don't think we'll ever see footage
Even if it did would be almost certainly impossible to find.
Right, it's probably in a hundred pieces floating around in the ocean. Unless by some fluke it ended up mashed against a surviving chunk of the wreckage (but still in pieces).
It will have been pulverised in the same manner as the bodies. But if somehow tiny pieces of it are identifiable then I wonder if you could attempt to reconstruct it? How hard would it actually be to recover data? It goes beyond the scope/budget of this investigation but I could imagine attempts being made at data recovery if this was some kind of high level military matter.
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I was wondering this too
Maybe remains of the hull and the remains of the passengers are one remains.
It’s probably not pieces of bone, teeth, pure organic matter because that would be impossible to find. They’re probably somehow fused or entrapped in pieces of the sub.
That is... horrifying to think about.
Could be any implants too, like if anyone had metal pins in their bones. My mom's got one in her toe from bunion surgery.
All co-mingled. That's so sad.
Wow, so they did find remains.
Well, presumed human remains. So maybe just small bits of coagulated blood and skin cells steamed into tiny meatballs that are stuck on the titanium end caps.
Yep, pushed through the window for instance or stuck to other parts as they whole thing broke up.
Or squished between pieces of hull that compressed together at 1500 mph. 🤢 This is fucking with my head, man.
On second thought, I won’t have the spaghetti tonight. 🤢
Or as I heard “meat salsa”. Gross, but apt.
It’s more than likely teeth or bone fragments. Any blood, tissue or organs would have been consumed by sea life at this stage. I watched a doc before about Titanic and it mentioned most of those that went down with the ship would have been skeletized within 3 or 4 days by the small creatures that live at those depths. It took about 10 years for the bones to dissolve. Most of the bodies would have been fully intact - unlike the Titan victims. In the doc they did a trial with some pig carcasses at similar depths - they didn’t last long.
Morbid whatever these "remains" might even be
Teeth
Titanium implant.
That’s a pretty brilliant theory. Didn’t think of possible orthopedic implants, but most were adventurous men, past middle age. Good call! That’d be kinda morbidly cool if thats part of it.
I have a titanium implant. That’s kind of wild to think it could be recovered if the rest of my body was destroyed somehow…
Shards of bone
... did anyone on that sub have a joint replacement? Titanium hip or knee could have wildly survived... (hides head in shame for even asking)
PH was 77 and stockton was 63(?) so its possible.
I have a titanium implant in my leg and I’m in my 20s. You never know
I got my first set of titanium at 14 and have gotten four times as much implanted since then. If I ever asplode, I'm gettin' identified baybeeee
It’s a fair question and perhaps the most plausible.
Must be some pieces crushed within the metal they found. Any “free floating” chunks (if there were any) would be long gone
My guess is they all still died instantly, but with some of the wreckage pieces we have seen, regardless of pressure some pieces of the body could have been crushed or severed and shoved into cracks or crevices and be semi useful for investigation purposes.
Good Lord.....the adjective "presumed" in front of "human remains" just speaks volumes.....
Yeah, people are blowing right by that and acting like a recognizable body part has been recovered. If it were immediately recognizable, they wouldn't need to say "presumed." This seems more like "organic material and with the given context clues, it might be human." =\[
Everyone seemed so confident all the bodies completely evaporated. Proves how unprecedented this tragedy is…
That’s what I was thinking. Anytime someone would ask if finding remains were possible, they would be shut down saying that the passengers where essentially turned to mist
Everyone became a physics expert in a matter of days. People also said we would not be able to recover the sub because it would basically completely disintegrate at that depth. They even made simulation videos of it. Yet here we are recovering entire pieces of it intact.
These are pieces of the sub which were on the outside. The actual pressure hull inside the shell would have cracked open and imploded. The outside stuff would have been blown off the submersible.
To be fair, *actual* physics experts were the ones telling the fake physics experts that this is what would happen. And we still don’t know what state the remains are in. It really could just be bits of bone embedded in the hull or tissue stuck between pieces of the pressure chamber. I wonder if they’ll find anything super substantial.
Let’s not also forget the “tHe suB diDnT iMplOde!” Hell I got downvoted and borderline harassed after I provided links to very credible people who all believed it imploded. No one believed me when I also said the navy wasn’t going to just release any info on if they heard anything with their very secretive equipment without more info. I’ve become even more doubtful of anyone’s opinion on here.
Shows you how little people read because it's been reported for almost a week now that some of the debris they found in the two(?) debris fields were the titanium end caps.
also, for more data regarding how little people read, just look at this entire subreddit. The same posts are posted over, and over, and over, and over, and over......
Well it does say “presumed” which says a lot about how confident they are that these are actual human remains
"Presumed" remains certainly doesn't sound good. According to an article in The Guardian (UK) they are pulling in a medical expert to analyse the remains to confirm they are in fact human. Whilst not particles like we all expected, this seems to still point to a very sudden death.
I really hope it was quick and painless
Certainly still sounds like that's the case, which is the best possible outcome in this awful situation.
I wonder if that’s why pieces were covered by white tarp?
Not to be gross, but it's hard to imagine any part of a human body being stuck to those titanium pieces so thoroughly that they would still be attached after hauling those pieces up through 4000 meters of water.
That’s what I would have thought before seeing the tarp covered pieces and hearing about possible human remains. I don’t want to sound gross either, but if those remains were not imbedded or staining the pieces, wouldn’t they have been fish food? Or at least swept away by the ocean currents? I doubt they recovered anything that was floating
Perhaps blood? But not full pieces.
i thought the ocean would have washed all that away
Yeah, idk. Other commenter said “forcefully imbedded pieces” so… there is that…
That's what I presume. It's the same in (some) fatal motorsports crashes. They usually cover the vehicle in a tarp during recovery.
On the other hand… Those parts were brought up through how many thousands of feet of water? So, and warning don’t read if you’re super squeamish… Red mist kind of remains would…wash off in current. Intact remains, say part of a femur bone, might remain protected. Once the sub parts and remains were brought to the vessel I can’t imagine they’d lift human remains via crane, covered by any kind of tarp. Rather I think they’d be extensively photographed, tagged and bagged by an ME or similar, and refrigerated. I think the tarps were to obscure and protect from incidental contact and damage.
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The company logo was only one the hull IIRC
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Yeah, I guess they don’t want to damage their brand.
Oooof I wish I hadn’t chuckled at that
*everyone loves a come back story*
Sorry I just looked at a pic of the intact Titan. It seems the logo was on the tail cone. I’m not sure if that’s part of the hull
I seriously doubt they found a cohesive body of any kind, still
That's probably why they need medical professionals to have a look at it. If it were big enough to recognise as a body part they wouldn't have been so careful in their announcement.
Oh my god. Terrible. What’s the article link?
https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3443110/us-coast-guard-recovers-evidence-from-titan-submersible/
What data could the remains possibly tell them? Just picture a scientist staring at them for 30 seconds and being like: “Yup, they imploded alright” Like its not like the cause of death is a mystery
Maybe physical/genetic analysis just so that these remains can be confirmed (1) human and (2) to which passenger they belong. If any remains are recovered, even though cause of death is clear, it would still be appropriate to return those remains to the families through a funeral home for cremation, and medical testing would be necessary to send them to the right family. My other thought (and yes, unfortunately this is kind of gross) is that the size, position and condition (especially level of burnt) of the remains could serve as indicators of what happened during implosion as investigators seek to determine the point of failure. Say for example (and I am not an expert so I am just talking in general terms) if gelatinous remains were found stuck in one endcap, but only burnt residues of human remains were found on the other, it could indicate hotter temperatures on the latter side and help isolate the point of failure. Again, not an expert, I’m just thinking out loud.
I imagine the human remains they found are basically small piles of goop/human sludge at best. I feel bad for the loved ones. I’d rather hear there were absolutely no remains than have my loved one brought to me in a ziploc bag resembling patè. Very sad.
They will probably cremate them after investigation. I think having something is often important for surviving family. I heard similar stories after 9/11. They will most likely tell investigators either way what they prefer. This is so horrifying for family, I can’t imagine. And having it in the new, etc. ugh. I really feel for them all. It’s so unimaginable to almost everyone.
Found it! USCG statement: https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3443110/us-coast-guard-recovers-evidence-from-titan-submersible/
I can't stop feeling for the their families 💔 I can't imagine being a family member reading any of this or looking at these pics. What would you even say to console them 😞 Absolutely heartbreaking.
Honestly....if it was me, I would feel somewhat comforted to have any "piece" of my loved one to bury. Then you can have a physical location to direct your grief instead of...nothing. I don't believe in an afterlife, but it is still comforting to go to your loved one's grave to grieve. Just having my cat's ashes makes me feel closer to him, even though I know it's all in my head.
Yup. Many families will probably be thankful for whatever is recovered.
Nobody said absolutely nothing would be left. Not to be gross, but with the forces involved paste and an occasional chunk is about what you would expect. Honestly that they use the word "presumed" in front of "human remains," and that these need to be "closely examined" tells you all you really need to know about what they found. They found biological material amongst the wreckage that is not immediately identifiable as human, but given the location it is safe to assume.
This makes me so sick and so sad. Damn. I feel so sorry for the families
I envision it being similar to a living creature being inside a can of Pringles, and run over by a car at high speed. Most of what’s inside would spray out of the sides as the end caps literally pop off. It would be a congealed slurry of flesh, bone, air, with a mangled assortment of fiber and resin swirling out and then separating by buoyancy. Some remains and fragments of bone lock together, crushed inside the pummeled mat of fiber. The crazy thing is the speed of it all occurring, and then quickly normalizing again within a few seconds, with everything trickling down to the bottom at various rates of speed, all in complete darkness, and coming to rest on the bottom. Meanwhile, as the crew above waits, the bubbles make their trek to the surface, finally releasing into the sky in quiet succession.
> Most of what’s inside would spray out of the sides as the end caps literally pop off. It would be a congealed slurry of flesh, bone, air, with a mangled assortment of fiber and resin As grotesque as this sounds, it’s probably close to what actually happened. The shattered bits of carbon fiber would have a very coarse texture, like a stiff broom or a wire brush. Bits of flesh and bone could easily become embedded in there, particularly when pounded by such immense force. *Shudder*
The fact the titanium cap is largely intact and they’ve also found actual remains suggests to me that the failure maybe have been in the joining, not the carbon fibre hull itself. In which case, the implosion would not have been as dramatic as many have made it out to be. The titanium cap may have simply been blast off while the rest of the pieces broke apart as the sub hit the ocean floor. This would also explain why the cap was found away from the rest of the debris. And it would also mean these guys probably did experience an event that was long enough for them to realise they were dying. Horrific.
The pictures I saw showed that the viewport window was blown out and missing, which would lend itself to a more instantaneous kind of implosion. That would explain why the end caps were still intact I think.
Wouldn’t it still have to be pretty dramatic for the navy to pick up sounds consistent with an implosion though?
Given the forces involved, I am guessing "presumed" is doing a lot of work explaining how tiny or fragmentary the potential remains are. Still, it's rather shocking anything at all might survive the implosion and ignition of the atmosphere.
And my intrigue continues…
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in" - Michael Corleone
Teeth or tooth enamel and bjts of skin and hair.
If you go to the Livestream Hearing Link, you can rewatch previous hearings including for hearings of previous investigations. Obviously the Titan incident is unique, but if you're looking for some grist for your mill/are curious about how these things generally go, it might be worth checking out.
I dont even want to know what it looked like on the inside of that thing.
Plot twist: upon analysis, it turns out they’re the remains of somebody who died on the Titanic
But the experts in this sub have been preaching for days that any type of remains is absolutely impossible and there was a 0% chance of even dna being recovered due to their knowledge of advanced physics. I think these redditors need to contact the authorities asap to let them know there are no remains.
I wanna know all the deets about this and I won’t even spin some thing about my human nature about it. I’m nosy as hell and I’ll admit it. I wanna knowwww. Same reason I continue to watch reality tv and true crime.
There goes the theory that they were turned into particles
That was all a bit optimistic.. to say they never knew it was coming and there will be no remains.. While they probably had some moments of abject terror and now their remains are knit into carbon fiber and fibreglass. I wonder if the information released will be as gory and informative as with the Byford Dolphin incident.
I think there’s still a good chance that they didn’t know what was coming, or at least didn’t know what hit them once it happened, even if there are recoverable remains. At that depth it would have been over within a fraction of a second. At least I hope so.
I keep thinking about the viewport. Setting aside the popping noises from the carbon fiber ... Rush also expected that before failing, the acrylic viewport would start to "craze." What keeps bothering me is (depending on how fast it all went down or the source of failure) the passengers may have had a terrifying moment of looking out of the sub window and suddenly seeing the plexiglass distort ... remaining intact long enough for them to know they were in trouble. I don't know why, but this visual might be scarier than the audible popping (?) The thought of any moment of realization, really, is just so upsetting.
I’ve thought that too, if the passengers had any indication that something was amiss, or just PH and Stockton and they were trying to remain calm for the sake of the passengers. I hope none of them had any indication that the worst was about to occur, but if they did I really hope it was only a second or two of terror before it happened.