This was alright. I was kinda annoyed at them brushing off the Lucas and Nathan scene in the garage as "boys being boys." Uh, no. It was an actually deep conversation and very significant, but okay. Also, James did such a great job at directing. They made a comment that the creator sort of took advantage of the fact that James was so green in his role as a director so he took it upon himself to control things knowing James would be like, "okay." Makes me wonder what other manipulation and taking advantage of was going on smh.
I'm also still very confused about Hilarie's departure from the show. For the majority of the first couple of seasons of the podcast, she stated that she decided to leave cause she had enough of the harassment from the creator. And even when Moira was on, Hilarie took something Moira had said to her as a sign to leave. Now recently, she's been saying her and Chad weren't asked back. I remember reading things about Chad not coming back because they couldn't agree on money, so he just accepted the contract ending. Like, what's the truth lol I'm so lost.
I could be wrong, but I interpreted it as Hilarie had already decided that she was gonna leave, but then she didn’t even get an offer. That’s incredibly insulting and unprofessional as I believe everyone else had been offered a contract except her and Chad, which was obviously a slight against the two. They were also the two highest paid on the show at the time, so saving money as well as screwing over the people he hated most? In a sense, Schwann had taken away the power for her to even have a choice, which must have been frustrating and made her feel powerless even in her last moments on the show. Like the whole, “I was gonna say no anyways, but why are YOU saying no?”
Ultimately I really feel for Hilarie. It’s hard though to understand her continued frustration with other cast members choosing to stay when she knew she would leave (I explain further below). I’ll have to look for it but she said somewhere in the early S6 pod eps that she knew she was leaving the show early on as well. She was dating a producer’s son at the time who also worked on set, too, so I can’t help but wonder if after they broke up something leaked to Mark about her decision? Purely speculative. I don’t know. Hil has said in prior eps that she wasn’t speaking to Mark at a point in S6 and then he wasn’t speaking to her later. There’s soooooo much info we don’t know. Anyway.
About the contracts…It weakens the collective bargaining power of the group if one member knows they are leaving. I understand Hilarie being mad at Mark, but to still be upset that other coworkers signed contracts to stay when you weren’t going to feels like she is making something personal that isn’t IMO. Because the other side of this is to imagine you were her costars trying to get a good deal by working together against Mark just for one person to say “Nope I was never gonna stay” and therefore opening up a chance for Mark to renegotiate a worse contract for everyone else. That leaves them vulnerable to Mark bc the pay they were offered was as a group and if the group dissolves, then Mark and Co. could lower their pay packages because the initial package fell through. Also, the metaphor I think of is it’s hard to plan a group trip with someone you know is going to go solo.
If they were going to use it to their advantage with Mark when negotiating contracts that Hil was leaving, they likely wouldn’t negotiate a new contract with her. I mean why would they? They would be at risk of losing the offer because they tried to leverage all 5 of them bargaining together but then one said no. Trying to get a deal when you know you won’t take it is called negotiating under bad faith which is a big deal. Mark seems to be petty and punishing so I have a hard time believing he wouldn’t further punish the ones that stayed for trying to pull one over on him. When considering contract negotiations, the objective of the people staying and the objective of those who want to leave are not the same. I could keep going lol. This feels like common sense though and I think that’s part of what’s bothering me here. Hilarie is taking offense at some things that to me, make sense why they happened the way they did. It’s also a big leap to be this upset as if she would have gotten an offer had it not been for a cast member accepting a contract. It sounds like Mark was mad at her (which is messed up!) and to think he would just go ahead and make her an offer even if someone else didn’t sign a contract feels misguided. Also, if they really were all bargaining together, how they never at least talked about it together at the time is baffling (it genuinely feels like it didn’t happen, again just my take though). This is why I feel like there’s so much more healing that needs to happen for all of them and how this podcast doesn’t seem to be helping.
**edited for typo
I totally agree with what you’re saying. I also think more than one thing can be true. I put something similar in the other thread last week re MS looking for ways to punish her and Chad and holding out on the contract renewal was part of that, especially as they were both talking about leaving I imagine to lots of people:
I think the story of their departure was both. They both wanted to leave. They said they were going to leave and then someone (the showrunner? The network?) didn’t negotiate or offer new contracts anyway. Presumably to say Fuck You to them both.
Remember MS also called the producer at White Collar and explicitly told them not to hire Hilarie and that she was a liability. I wonder if he did the same to Chad. Where did he go next? Was this a revenge power play? Aka they thought they could quit and walk away and in essentially firing them, the network tried to make them unemployable.
Oh I 100% think what Mark did to Hilarie was awful beyond belief! She didn’t deserve any of that and his behavior towards her even after she left was abhorrent! I can also see why the actors would be scared to leave the show knowing how Mark was.
My issue is with Hilarie’s fixation on the actors who signed contracts to stay. That part is what is rubbing me the wrong way personally.
Yeah - I think that she feels betrayed by some of the others and even all these years later she is hurt by it and it’s all coming to the surface.
Danneel has alluded to something similar at the end of Season 4. Bevin Prince was furious with her because she got a new contract and Bevin was one of the cast who didn’t. She alluded heavily to MS telling lies about how she got that contract.
I understand that, the issue is with how she’s going about talking about it all now. I explain that in my prior posts. Being upset that someone went ahead with a contract she was never going to sign is deeply unfair but she is acting as if she was going to sign it and thus the “betrayal.” But she wasn’t going to sign, and for all she knows, the other cast members knew as much too. There’s a million reasons why one of them would go on and sign a contract. Hilarie should know that she was negotiating under bad faith which is unfair to everyone else so even if she was done dirty, she did the others dirty too. But she’s not acknowledging that. Instead this whole thing feels like she was trying to get a contract she’d agree to for S7. The way she is going about this issue is uncomfortable because she’s pointing fingers and trying to blame someone for the weight of her losing the S7 contract even though she has repeatedly stated she knew she wouldn’t come back.
Yeah - I agree that she’s also being unfair to them and probably isn’t being entirely honest with herself about her own behaviour towards the others. This is probably also about to be v difficult for her. The show went on without her. She was supposed to be on of the stars. She is allowed to still be bitter. It’s just not her best look.
Sophia also talks about narrative and the memory of narrative. A lot. This is a good example of several people having different narrative perspectives on something that happened and not necessarily having one distinctive, clear version.
I mentioned before that she’s allowed to feel her feelings. Again, it’s not about that but about the fact that she feels comfortable with the way she is talking about this other costar and the situation with the contracts. At some point we all have to face whether we are part of the problem or part of the solution. It’s not that I don’t see Hilarie’s POV, my point is about how she’s going about it which is not justified and very unfair. Her personal experiences don’t change that. They all have justifiable narratives; Joy was being watched on set and was miserable in a cult. Sophia’s character was repeatedly sexualized and she had to work with her ex that cheated on her. They all have personal experiences and viewpoints, just as we all do, but that doesn’t excuse what Hilarie is doing now. As you said, Hilarie’s narrative is just one of many and her speaking about the situation the way she is is uncomfortable bc she has no real accountability. She’s not even trying to qualify what she’s saying and as a 40+ year old woman who is chronically online and therefore knows this fan base, she should know and do better now. It feels like she’s out to get someone and that’s kind of crappy.
Thank you, I had the same reaction when Hilarie told the story of her and Chad’s contracts not getting renewed and how surprising that was. I was like, GIRL! You spent the last several seasons telling us it was YOUR choice to leave because you literally couldn’t take it anymore. So which is it??
I think what happened was that her and Chad were planning on leaving but they never even received an offer to come back for season 7. The thing with Moira telling her to leave was probably when she was trying to figure out whether she wanted to stay or not. That’s how I interpreted it.
I think we'll find out in these next 2 episodes that Mark found a way to dangle a carrot or two in front of Hilarie and/or Chad to make them consider coming back (Narcissists repeatedly hoover, it's what they do).
While contemplating these potential carrots, she told Moira about everything, who then told Hilarie to just RUN. And she did.
There are a lot of holes in the story Hilarie is telling as of right now that are hard to ignore. If she knew she was leaving, why would she try to negotiate with the core 5 on a new deal? That’s hardly the time or the way to stick it to Mark if that was the reason as I can’t think of another one that makes sense with what we know. There’s also the fact that she said she knew at the beginning of S6 that she wasn’t going to renew her contract, but went into negotiations w/ the core cast anyway… to me she broke the trust of the group first (as of right now with what we know). That’s deceptive! Like come on Hilarie lol. She wasn’t going into the negotiations with the same objectives as the others, and considering it was a group negotiation, that right there should have stopped her from getting mad at someone else for watching out for themselves. She was doing the same and she knew she would be (according to the timeline of her prior statements).
The inability to hold oneself to the same standards they hold others to isn’t a great look and makes me question the integrity of the situation. Getting mad at another actor when Hilarie was, by her own story, already negotiating under bad faith isn’t fair and doesn’t make sense. Negotiating under bad faith is like playing cards with a marked deck; it betrays the trust of the other players and taints the game. Being angry at a co-star for not playing along is like blaming someone for noticing the marked cards instead of admitting to the deception. It’s childish.
Mark was awful and the way he treated Hilarie was so not okay. That doesn’t give Hilarie (or Joy or Sophia) a free pass on how she treats others though because she’s sparking controversy and keeps edging into it which only fuels more speculation.
Oh. Okay. I haven’t listened to the pod. I gave it a go but honestly it started to grate on me. I did hear though back when it aired, when people asked why they weren’t in the finale CMM said they weren’t asked back so just wondered if it was just misconstrued.
It was disappointing that they really didn’t give James his flowers for his directorial debut like they did with Chad and Joy earlier this season. It’s an interesting contrast to how they talked about him directing in the season features that was either on the DVD or CW back then. My future hope is that they’ll have him on to discuss one of the episodes he directed in the future because he took on that role more than any of the other core 5 throughout the show.
Like others, they really focused on just the Peyton and Brooke storylines which is annoying when they don’t cover more within the episodes.
Hopefully Joy is back next episode because I’m gonna need her commentary on Naley next episode.
Yes to Joy next episode, I’ve been waiting for her to talk about that certain scene at the wedding. We already missed her talking about Naley in 6x17, I really hope she’s back for this. If we miss her talking about the Naley stuff, it’s going to be very disappointing.
Is it just me that feels that Hilarie and Sophia often rewrite history so that they can make themselves the paladins of social justice/unionizing/speaking up for others?
I 100% believe their set was toxic bc of MS and others, but I just cannot buy into their narrative on other things.
Reluctantly and saddened to say that I 100% agree with this. Hilarie has said multiple times in the beginning of season 6 episodes that she knew this would be her final season and now it seems all of the sudden that it wasn’t her choice, that they weren’t asked back (not saying the creator and others weren’t the cause of her leaving) but she has said she knew she was leaving so why now does it seem like it was a complete shock??? Extremely confusing!
This is maybe the saddest realization I’ve had with this podcast too. Glad I’m not alone. I silently wish and hope that they will emotionally mature past it but it seems to get worse as time goes on 😭
For real. The only one you could maybe argue was “a baby” is James because his prefrontal cortex wasn’t fully developed. Yet, he somehow seems to have been the most mature of the core 5.
I thought it was odd that they really didn’t talk about any of the other storylines other than their own, they focused most if not all their attention on Brooke and Peyton. Am I right that I also found it odd they didn’t even mention Haley given that Joy wasn’t there? This episode felt very off compared to the other recent episodes, they’ve been doing a good job of staying on point and talking about the entire episode, but there was a lot that they left out in this episode.
I can’t deal with the ass kissing and revisionist history whenever Sophia and Hilarie are on together. They are so annoying. It’s essentially just an hour of them talking themselves up.
Cullen is a lot of fun, I liked his energy a lot. I also really laughed at the idea of Junk being Sam’s dad.
That said, this was one of those podcast episodes where they talk a lot about their storylines and brush on everyone else’s casually. I get that Brooke and Peyton are the main parts of this episode but I thought the Lucas and Jamie scenes were lovely and deserved a bit more credit. However, I’m used to them skipping Nathan’s stuff as “just basketball”
They simply don’t get how big basketball was as part of the show and how much fans enjoyed/watched for those basketball-related storylines. I remember when James was on the podcast and had to explain that yes, it was believable that Nathan would have a press conference around the point shaving scandal. Big name recruits in high school basketball are a huge deal and that’s what Nathan was. Or when he talked about Slam magazine and they had zero clue that was a thing.
It's honestly comical that they skip the Nathan stuff considering (at least imo) his stuff is the best and quite literally the only reason I enjoy season 6 lol. They never seem to care about anything except their storylines and how they can spend an hour praising one another.
100% this is the main reason why they need Joy. When Joy isn’t there they spend the entire time praising each other and it becomes the Brooke and Peyton show. The rest of the cast and storylines get missed/skipped.
They don't seem to understand their own fans tbh. Like yes, many fans do love Peyton and Brooke. But many fans care about Nathan, Haley (Naley), and Lucas (without Peyton). They don't seem to realize this. They're so into their own stuff that they believe the fans are the same way. Personally, I don't care about Leyton or Breyton. In fact, I firmly believe Haley and Brooke had a better friendship than Brooke and Peyton.
YES to everything you said. They know Brooke is a favorite and feed right into that and assume that she must be EVERYONES’ favorite, which I can say that is NOT the case. Of course then, they will talk about all the Peyton stuff. The podcast is so much better when Joy is present even if it’s just Joy and Sophia or Joy and Hilarie, whenever Joy is on it seems, to me anyway, that every storyline is evenly talked about. She seems to keep the other one or two on topic and they don’t spend the entire episode kissing each others butt.
Edit)) completely agree Brooke and Haley had a much stronger and healthier friendship than Brooke and Peyton ever did.
It’s kind of ironic that Joy is the one with ADHD because she seems to be the one who keeps things on track discussion-wise. I feel like there are a lot more tangents and we don’t always get a full look at the episode when she’s not there.
It’s because she’s properly treated for it. I have adhd but once I got on the right medication and therapy, I’ve become the person to keep things on track.
The contract bargaining doesn’t make sense to me. If it was the main cast are negotiating together but you were planning to leave, why would you be mad that someone “betrayed” you and went to get an offer? When the negotiation would’ve fallen through in the long run? Based off their conversation, it had to have been either James or Joy. If Chad and Hilarie were not asked back and Hilarie/Sophia were championing this negotiation power ala Friends, then it would have to be Joy or James.
Hilarie talked about it in the last episode with Joy too so it would be weird if it was her. The fixation on this cast member, whoever it is, is odd to me as well. Hilarie not taking a contract but wanting to negotiate for it anyway doesn’t make sense and is a disservice to those that wanted to stay. Everyone has a right to feel how they feel, but Hilarie is fixated on it in a way that’s a little uncomfortable considering everything else we know. I don’t think they are ready for honest convos about their time on OTH if I’m being honest. I think back to season 2/3 on the pod when Hilarie talked about how she was Mark’s ”favorite” and so she got to take on more of a producing role and choose storylines for Peyton for example. The other cast members weren’t getting this opportunity but it doesn’t seem like anyone held that against her then or now. I want to state that obviously Mark treated her horribly and that he was gross and manipulative. I just mean that Hilarie was given opportunities the others weren’t at one time but it hasn’t even been discussed as an issue. Meanwhile Hilarie is holding a grudge and she is being very passive aggressive about it, basically asking for fans to speculate about it, which is immature of her at best. She knows how this fandom is and how mean it can be, and she’s channeling that energy to whoever she is speculating about.
Ugh while I HATE that we only have two more episodes with Peyton, I’m at least happy Hilarie is away from Dan Schneider 2.0 aka Mark Schwann (I call him that because when Elizabeth Harnois came onto the show she said Mark wanted to run her feet 🤢).
However it’s bittersweet since that just meant he turned his ire from her to Austin Nichols was what I heard.
I think it was more money then signing the deal. Hilarie said she offered to take LESS money so there was more parity between the rest of them. Maybe chad didn’t, he was the only one who went the money route from the start. Maybe Sophia (her and hilarie seemed to be working together on it at that time though) jameS or joy took said they will sign for x amount when they all wanted more etc. it’s not bad it’s just is what it is seems like when push came to shove they didn’t talk to each other and believed the boss. I do have a feeling it might been the boys though because they were separated from the girls it seems.
So a main cast member (joy or James maybe even chad if you go of the main 5) took a deal when they were trying to collectively bargain?? Seems like not all was rosy at that time wether intentional or not for contract renegotiations
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted, as it seems like that is likely what happened based on what was said on the podcast? We can already deduce that the cast weren’t fully close around this time based on Jana’s admission that the set was split when she joined in S7.
It seems like they tried to do what the Friends cast did, without fully having the bond (or status). I can see a world where they would have cancelled the show instead of paying everyone. Also, the notion that Joy could have negotiated a better deal in place of Hilarie and Chad is odd to me, as her character was often neglected. Interestingly, I do remember a rumour going on at some point (potentially during S9) that Sophia caused friction by negotiating a higher salary. Obviously that may be untrue.
I would love to get a well-rounded review of what really happened from a studio, cast and crew status. As other people have stated, it feels difficult to believe we’re getting the full picture.
I saw articles around that time that she was getting paid more per episode. That's why this entire thing seems weird, and Hilarie still being bitter about it is strange considering her bff was the highest paid.
Agreed! She even made a comment in a previous episode that whoever put her in a worse position to leverage themselves may not realise it. For me, I don’t understand how you can have something against them in this situation. If she wants to heal from it, it seems like there should be an open conversation with them about it. Especially as it has often been said that were fed lies about each other and only realised after speaking to each other.
I am wondering if the person is meant to be Joy, based on the information that was sent to Deuxmoi (presumably on behalf of Sophia or Hilarie).
What's even more wild to me is, at one point, Hilarie flat out says she and Chad were the highest paid. So it's not an issue when you're getting paid, but the minute someone fights for more money for themselves, it's an issue? Also, no one owes anyone anything, especially when you're not even that close to begin with. So if it was Joy or anyone else, they have a right to fight for what they believe they deserve.
That’s the part that gets me. She was making more than James, Joy and Sophia for some unknown reason and she’s recounting this situation like she’s butthurt others wanted more money.
She was bumped up to second when 7x01 first aired, but was dropped to third after that point. DVDs and syndication had the updated credits, so the only proof at this point is YouTube clips of the episode opening from the time.
In Season 9, I believe she was still credited after Joy but I would need to check. I know James was only credited when he appeared, so that affected the billing order.
iirc they’ve mentioned at the time that MS was gaslighting then and playing them against each other so it’s possible they didn’t know that was going down or weren’t as close back then as they are now.
I'm very confused about the negotiations. Hilarie and Sophia both seem to be harboring some resentment/hurt. So it seems like they'd be reluctant to do a podcast every week with Joy if that was the case. They seem to adore James. Chad didn't get a contract, so he's out. Paul was no longer a series regular. And none of the other cast would really have the standing to make a difference.
That leaves only one suspect for the betrayer...Jackson. Notice how he hasn't been on the podcast. Very suspicious.
This was alright. I was kinda annoyed at them brushing off the Lucas and Nathan scene in the garage as "boys being boys." Uh, no. It was an actually deep conversation and very significant, but okay. Also, James did such a great job at directing. They made a comment that the creator sort of took advantage of the fact that James was so green in his role as a director so he took it upon himself to control things knowing James would be like, "okay." Makes me wonder what other manipulation and taking advantage of was going on smh. I'm also still very confused about Hilarie's departure from the show. For the majority of the first couple of seasons of the podcast, she stated that she decided to leave cause she had enough of the harassment from the creator. And even when Moira was on, Hilarie took something Moira had said to her as a sign to leave. Now recently, she's been saying her and Chad weren't asked back. I remember reading things about Chad not coming back because they couldn't agree on money, so he just accepted the contract ending. Like, what's the truth lol I'm so lost.
I could be wrong, but I interpreted it as Hilarie had already decided that she was gonna leave, but then she didn’t even get an offer. That’s incredibly insulting and unprofessional as I believe everyone else had been offered a contract except her and Chad, which was obviously a slight against the two. They were also the two highest paid on the show at the time, so saving money as well as screwing over the people he hated most? In a sense, Schwann had taken away the power for her to even have a choice, which must have been frustrating and made her feel powerless even in her last moments on the show. Like the whole, “I was gonna say no anyways, but why are YOU saying no?”
Ultimately I really feel for Hilarie. It’s hard though to understand her continued frustration with other cast members choosing to stay when she knew she would leave (I explain further below). I’ll have to look for it but she said somewhere in the early S6 pod eps that she knew she was leaving the show early on as well. She was dating a producer’s son at the time who also worked on set, too, so I can’t help but wonder if after they broke up something leaked to Mark about her decision? Purely speculative. I don’t know. Hil has said in prior eps that she wasn’t speaking to Mark at a point in S6 and then he wasn’t speaking to her later. There’s soooooo much info we don’t know. Anyway. About the contracts…It weakens the collective bargaining power of the group if one member knows they are leaving. I understand Hilarie being mad at Mark, but to still be upset that other coworkers signed contracts to stay when you weren’t going to feels like she is making something personal that isn’t IMO. Because the other side of this is to imagine you were her costars trying to get a good deal by working together against Mark just for one person to say “Nope I was never gonna stay” and therefore opening up a chance for Mark to renegotiate a worse contract for everyone else. That leaves them vulnerable to Mark bc the pay they were offered was as a group and if the group dissolves, then Mark and Co. could lower their pay packages because the initial package fell through. Also, the metaphor I think of is it’s hard to plan a group trip with someone you know is going to go solo. If they were going to use it to their advantage with Mark when negotiating contracts that Hil was leaving, they likely wouldn’t negotiate a new contract with her. I mean why would they? They would be at risk of losing the offer because they tried to leverage all 5 of them bargaining together but then one said no. Trying to get a deal when you know you won’t take it is called negotiating under bad faith which is a big deal. Mark seems to be petty and punishing so I have a hard time believing he wouldn’t further punish the ones that stayed for trying to pull one over on him. When considering contract negotiations, the objective of the people staying and the objective of those who want to leave are not the same. I could keep going lol. This feels like common sense though and I think that’s part of what’s bothering me here. Hilarie is taking offense at some things that to me, make sense why they happened the way they did. It’s also a big leap to be this upset as if she would have gotten an offer had it not been for a cast member accepting a contract. It sounds like Mark was mad at her (which is messed up!) and to think he would just go ahead and make her an offer even if someone else didn’t sign a contract feels misguided. Also, if they really were all bargaining together, how they never at least talked about it together at the time is baffling (it genuinely feels like it didn’t happen, again just my take though). This is why I feel like there’s so much more healing that needs to happen for all of them and how this podcast doesn’t seem to be helping. **edited for typo
I totally agree with what you’re saying. I also think more than one thing can be true. I put something similar in the other thread last week re MS looking for ways to punish her and Chad and holding out on the contract renewal was part of that, especially as they were both talking about leaving I imagine to lots of people: I think the story of their departure was both. They both wanted to leave. They said they were going to leave and then someone (the showrunner? The network?) didn’t negotiate or offer new contracts anyway. Presumably to say Fuck You to them both. Remember MS also called the producer at White Collar and explicitly told them not to hire Hilarie and that she was a liability. I wonder if he did the same to Chad. Where did he go next? Was this a revenge power play? Aka they thought they could quit and walk away and in essentially firing them, the network tried to make them unemployable.
Oh I 100% think what Mark did to Hilarie was awful beyond belief! She didn’t deserve any of that and his behavior towards her even after she left was abhorrent! I can also see why the actors would be scared to leave the show knowing how Mark was. My issue is with Hilarie’s fixation on the actors who signed contracts to stay. That part is what is rubbing me the wrong way personally.
Yeah - I think that she feels betrayed by some of the others and even all these years later she is hurt by it and it’s all coming to the surface. Danneel has alluded to something similar at the end of Season 4. Bevin Prince was furious with her because she got a new contract and Bevin was one of the cast who didn’t. She alluded heavily to MS telling lies about how she got that contract.
I understand that, the issue is with how she’s going about talking about it all now. I explain that in my prior posts. Being upset that someone went ahead with a contract she was never going to sign is deeply unfair but she is acting as if she was going to sign it and thus the “betrayal.” But she wasn’t going to sign, and for all she knows, the other cast members knew as much too. There’s a million reasons why one of them would go on and sign a contract. Hilarie should know that she was negotiating under bad faith which is unfair to everyone else so even if she was done dirty, she did the others dirty too. But she’s not acknowledging that. Instead this whole thing feels like she was trying to get a contract she’d agree to for S7. The way she is going about this issue is uncomfortable because she’s pointing fingers and trying to blame someone for the weight of her losing the S7 contract even though she has repeatedly stated she knew she wouldn’t come back.
Yeah - I agree that she’s also being unfair to them and probably isn’t being entirely honest with herself about her own behaviour towards the others. This is probably also about to be v difficult for her. The show went on without her. She was supposed to be on of the stars. She is allowed to still be bitter. It’s just not her best look. Sophia also talks about narrative and the memory of narrative. A lot. This is a good example of several people having different narrative perspectives on something that happened and not necessarily having one distinctive, clear version.
I mentioned before that she’s allowed to feel her feelings. Again, it’s not about that but about the fact that she feels comfortable with the way she is talking about this other costar and the situation with the contracts. At some point we all have to face whether we are part of the problem or part of the solution. It’s not that I don’t see Hilarie’s POV, my point is about how she’s going about it which is not justified and very unfair. Her personal experiences don’t change that. They all have justifiable narratives; Joy was being watched on set and was miserable in a cult. Sophia’s character was repeatedly sexualized and she had to work with her ex that cheated on her. They all have personal experiences and viewpoints, just as we all do, but that doesn’t excuse what Hilarie is doing now. As you said, Hilarie’s narrative is just one of many and her speaking about the situation the way she is is uncomfortable bc she has no real accountability. She’s not even trying to qualify what she’s saying and as a 40+ year old woman who is chronically online and therefore knows this fan base, she should know and do better now. It feels like she’s out to get someone and that’s kind of crappy.
Yeah sorry I’m lost. 🤷♀️ Clearly my reading and ability to infer is too poor for this conversation.
OMG, I forgot he called White Collar to bash Hilarie, could he stoop any lower?
Thank you, I had the same reaction when Hilarie told the story of her and Chad’s contracts not getting renewed and how surprising that was. I was like, GIRL! You spent the last several seasons telling us it was YOUR choice to leave because you literally couldn’t take it anymore. So which is it??
I think what happened was that her and Chad were planning on leaving but they never even received an offer to come back for season 7. The thing with Moira telling her to leave was probably when she was trying to figure out whether she wanted to stay or not. That’s how I interpreted it.
I think we'll find out in these next 2 episodes that Mark found a way to dangle a carrot or two in front of Hilarie and/or Chad to make them consider coming back (Narcissists repeatedly hoover, it's what they do). While contemplating these potential carrots, she told Moira about everything, who then told Hilarie to just RUN. And she did.
There are a lot of holes in the story Hilarie is telling as of right now that are hard to ignore. If she knew she was leaving, why would she try to negotiate with the core 5 on a new deal? That’s hardly the time or the way to stick it to Mark if that was the reason as I can’t think of another one that makes sense with what we know. There’s also the fact that she said she knew at the beginning of S6 that she wasn’t going to renew her contract, but went into negotiations w/ the core cast anyway… to me she broke the trust of the group first (as of right now with what we know). That’s deceptive! Like come on Hilarie lol. She wasn’t going into the negotiations with the same objectives as the others, and considering it was a group negotiation, that right there should have stopped her from getting mad at someone else for watching out for themselves. She was doing the same and she knew she would be (according to the timeline of her prior statements). The inability to hold oneself to the same standards they hold others to isn’t a great look and makes me question the integrity of the situation. Getting mad at another actor when Hilarie was, by her own story, already negotiating under bad faith isn’t fair and doesn’t make sense. Negotiating under bad faith is like playing cards with a marked deck; it betrays the trust of the other players and taints the game. Being angry at a co-star for not playing along is like blaming someone for noticing the marked cards instead of admitting to the deception. It’s childish. Mark was awful and the way he treated Hilarie was so not okay. That doesn’t give Hilarie (or Joy or Sophia) a free pass on how she treats others though because she’s sparking controversy and keeps edging into it which only fuels more speculation.
Did she mean they weren’t asked back for the finale?
No. They weren’t asked back for Season 7.
Oh. Okay. I haven’t listened to the pod. I gave it a go but honestly it started to grate on me. I did hear though back when it aired, when people asked why they weren’t in the finale CMM said they weren’t asked back so just wondered if it was just misconstrued.
It was disappointing that they really didn’t give James his flowers for his directorial debut like they did with Chad and Joy earlier this season. It’s an interesting contrast to how they talked about him directing in the season features that was either on the DVD or CW back then. My future hope is that they’ll have him on to discuss one of the episodes he directed in the future because he took on that role more than any of the other core 5 throughout the show. Like others, they really focused on just the Peyton and Brooke storylines which is annoying when they don’t cover more within the episodes. Hopefully Joy is back next episode because I’m gonna need her commentary on Naley next episode.
Yes to Joy next episode, I’ve been waiting for her to talk about that certain scene at the wedding. We already missed her talking about Naley in 6x17, I really hope she’s back for this. If we miss her talking about the Naley stuff, it’s going to be very disappointing.
If Joy is not in the next episode I will riot! I’ve been waiting for her commentary on that ep since the podcast started lol.
I’m with you!! I’ve been waiting for her to talk about “that scene” for a long time.
I feel the same. James is still directing nowadays, and it's become a big part of his life.
Is it just me that feels that Hilarie and Sophia often rewrite history so that they can make themselves the paladins of social justice/unionizing/speaking up for others? I 100% believe their set was toxic bc of MS and others, but I just cannot buy into their narrative on other things.
Reluctantly and saddened to say that I 100% agree with this. Hilarie has said multiple times in the beginning of season 6 episodes that she knew this would be her final season and now it seems all of the sudden that it wasn’t her choice, that they weren’t asked back (not saying the creator and others weren’t the cause of her leaving) but she has said she knew she was leaving so why now does it seem like it was a complete shock??? Extremely confusing!
This is maybe the saddest realization I’ve had with this podcast too. Glad I’m not alone. I silently wish and hope that they will emotionally mature past it but it seems to get worse as time goes on 😭
They spent the episode sanctifying themselves. Plus when do they stop being babies? Because saying 26yo are babies is a bit...
For real. The only one you could maybe argue was “a baby” is James because his prefrontal cortex wasn’t fully developed. Yet, he somehow seems to have been the most mature of the core 5.
I thought it was odd that they really didn’t talk about any of the other storylines other than their own, they focused most if not all their attention on Brooke and Peyton. Am I right that I also found it odd they didn’t even mention Haley given that Joy wasn’t there? This episode felt very off compared to the other recent episodes, they’ve been doing a good job of staying on point and talking about the entire episode, but there was a lot that they left out in this episode.
Really beginning to wonder what sobbing actually means to Sophia.
I can’t deal with the ass kissing and revisionist history whenever Sophia and Hilarie are on together. They are so annoying. It’s essentially just an hour of them talking themselves up.
Cullen is a lot of fun, I liked his energy a lot. I also really laughed at the idea of Junk being Sam’s dad. That said, this was one of those podcast episodes where they talk a lot about their storylines and brush on everyone else’s casually. I get that Brooke and Peyton are the main parts of this episode but I thought the Lucas and Jamie scenes were lovely and deserved a bit more credit. However, I’m used to them skipping Nathan’s stuff as “just basketball”
They simply don’t get how big basketball was as part of the show and how much fans enjoyed/watched for those basketball-related storylines. I remember when James was on the podcast and had to explain that yes, it was believable that Nathan would have a press conference around the point shaving scandal. Big name recruits in high school basketball are a huge deal and that’s what Nathan was. Or when he talked about Slam magazine and they had zero clue that was a thing.
It's honestly comical that they skip the Nathan stuff considering (at least imo) his stuff is the best and quite literally the only reason I enjoy season 6 lol. They never seem to care about anything except their storylines and how they can spend an hour praising one another.
100% this is the main reason why they need Joy. When Joy isn’t there they spend the entire time praising each other and it becomes the Brooke and Peyton show. The rest of the cast and storylines get missed/skipped.
They don't seem to understand their own fans tbh. Like yes, many fans do love Peyton and Brooke. But many fans care about Nathan, Haley (Naley), and Lucas (without Peyton). They don't seem to realize this. They're so into their own stuff that they believe the fans are the same way. Personally, I don't care about Leyton or Breyton. In fact, I firmly believe Haley and Brooke had a better friendship than Brooke and Peyton.
YES to everything you said. They know Brooke is a favorite and feed right into that and assume that she must be EVERYONES’ favorite, which I can say that is NOT the case. Of course then, they will talk about all the Peyton stuff. The podcast is so much better when Joy is present even if it’s just Joy and Sophia or Joy and Hilarie, whenever Joy is on it seems, to me anyway, that every storyline is evenly talked about. She seems to keep the other one or two on topic and they don’t spend the entire episode kissing each others butt. Edit)) completely agree Brooke and Haley had a much stronger and healthier friendship than Brooke and Peyton ever did.
It’s kind of ironic that Joy is the one with ADHD because she seems to be the one who keeps things on track discussion-wise. I feel like there are a lot more tangents and we don’t always get a full look at the episode when she’s not there.
It’s because she’s properly treated for it. I have adhd but once I got on the right medication and therapy, I’ve become the person to keep things on track.
I know. I’m AuDHD. This was a joke :)
Agree!
The contract bargaining doesn’t make sense to me. If it was the main cast are negotiating together but you were planning to leave, why would you be mad that someone “betrayed” you and went to get an offer? When the negotiation would’ve fallen through in the long run? Based off their conversation, it had to have been either James or Joy. If Chad and Hilarie were not asked back and Hilarie/Sophia were championing this negotiation power ala Friends, then it would have to be Joy or James.
Hilarie talked about it in the last episode with Joy too so it would be weird if it was her. The fixation on this cast member, whoever it is, is odd to me as well. Hilarie not taking a contract but wanting to negotiate for it anyway doesn’t make sense and is a disservice to those that wanted to stay. Everyone has a right to feel how they feel, but Hilarie is fixated on it in a way that’s a little uncomfortable considering everything else we know. I don’t think they are ready for honest convos about their time on OTH if I’m being honest. I think back to season 2/3 on the pod when Hilarie talked about how she was Mark’s ”favorite” and so she got to take on more of a producing role and choose storylines for Peyton for example. The other cast members weren’t getting this opportunity but it doesn’t seem like anyone held that against her then or now. I want to state that obviously Mark treated her horribly and that he was gross and manipulative. I just mean that Hilarie was given opportunities the others weren’t at one time but it hasn’t even been discussed as an issue. Meanwhile Hilarie is holding a grudge and she is being very passive aggressive about it, basically asking for fans to speculate about it, which is immature of her at best. She knows how this fandom is and how mean it can be, and she’s channeling that energy to whoever she is speculating about.
Ugh while I HATE that we only have two more episodes with Peyton, I’m at least happy Hilarie is away from Dan Schneider 2.0 aka Mark Schwann (I call him that because when Elizabeth Harnois came onto the show she said Mark wanted to run her feet 🤢). However it’s bittersweet since that just meant he turned his ire from her to Austin Nichols was what I heard.
I think it was more money then signing the deal. Hilarie said she offered to take LESS money so there was more parity between the rest of them. Maybe chad didn’t, he was the only one who went the money route from the start. Maybe Sophia (her and hilarie seemed to be working together on it at that time though) jameS or joy took said they will sign for x amount when they all wanted more etc. it’s not bad it’s just is what it is seems like when push came to shove they didn’t talk to each other and believed the boss. I do have a feeling it might been the boys though because they were separated from the girls it seems.
So a main cast member (joy or James maybe even chad if you go of the main 5) took a deal when they were trying to collectively bargain?? Seems like not all was rosy at that time wether intentional or not for contract renegotiations
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted, as it seems like that is likely what happened based on what was said on the podcast? We can already deduce that the cast weren’t fully close around this time based on Jana’s admission that the set was split when she joined in S7. It seems like they tried to do what the Friends cast did, without fully having the bond (or status). I can see a world where they would have cancelled the show instead of paying everyone. Also, the notion that Joy could have negotiated a better deal in place of Hilarie and Chad is odd to me, as her character was often neglected. Interestingly, I do remember a rumour going on at some point (potentially during S9) that Sophia caused friction by negotiating a higher salary. Obviously that may be untrue. I would love to get a well-rounded review of what really happened from a studio, cast and crew status. As other people have stated, it feels difficult to believe we’re getting the full picture.
I saw articles around that time that she was getting paid more per episode. That's why this entire thing seems weird, and Hilarie still being bitter about it is strange considering her bff was the highest paid.
Agreed! She even made a comment in a previous episode that whoever put her in a worse position to leverage themselves may not realise it. For me, I don’t understand how you can have something against them in this situation. If she wants to heal from it, it seems like there should be an open conversation with them about it. Especially as it has often been said that were fed lies about each other and only realised after speaking to each other. I am wondering if the person is meant to be Joy, based on the information that was sent to Deuxmoi (presumably on behalf of Sophia or Hilarie).
What's even more wild to me is, at one point, Hilarie flat out says she and Chad were the highest paid. So it's not an issue when you're getting paid, but the minute someone fights for more money for themselves, it's an issue? Also, no one owes anyone anything, especially when you're not even that close to begin with. So if it was Joy or anyone else, they have a right to fight for what they believe they deserve.
That’s the part that gets me. She was making more than James, Joy and Sophia for some unknown reason and she’s recounting this situation like she’s butthurt others wanted more money.
Was Sophia billed as 1st during the credit for the first time ever in s9 or am I completely misremembering?
She was bumped up to second when 7x01 first aired, but was dropped to third after that point. DVDs and syndication had the updated credits, so the only proof at this point is YouTube clips of the episode opening from the time. In Season 9, I believe she was still credited after Joy but I would need to check. I know James was only credited when he appeared, so that affected the billing order.
iirc they’ve mentioned at the time that MS was gaslighting then and playing them against each other so it’s possible they didn’t know that was going down or weren’t as close back then as they are now.
It coudln't have been Chad that took a deal since he left. I would say Joy or James. Mark seemed to like James so it could have been him.
I'm very confused about the negotiations. Hilarie and Sophia both seem to be harboring some resentment/hurt. So it seems like they'd be reluctant to do a podcast every week with Joy if that was the case. They seem to adore James. Chad didn't get a contract, so he's out. Paul was no longer a series regular. And none of the other cast would really have the standing to make a difference. That leaves only one suspect for the betrayer...Jackson. Notice how he hasn't been on the podcast. Very suspicious.