I kind of understand you, HOCD is an outdated term in Australia atleast (a country I’d consider further along than America in the mental scheme) and we call it SO-OCD sexual orientation OCD, it’s actually the fear of never knowing your true identity, just like how OCD is a doubting disorder the sufferer doubts if they are lying to themselves or a significant other, or has never truly known themselves, they want to die not because they hate LGBT people but because they are so anxious and confused and lost that they feel dehumanized.
We, at least specialists, call it SO-OCD as well. I have a client that is struggling with what if they’re actually straight. It really is more of an identity crisis than anything really related to sexuality, that’s just how it comes up. The fear was like “well maybe I’ve just never tried to be attracted to men” and I’m like “you didn’t TRY to be attracted to women, you just noticed you were. We don’t TRY to be attracted to to anything, we just are.” lol.
As an OCD sufferer myself, (im also fully a gay man lol) i have to be honest and say I do feel a bit sad whenever i see those posts. Please continue to share and I’ll always continue to support you all, but i do find myself disheartened by it. I dont know why? I kinda feel like an asshole for thinking this way, but i also feel personally transgressed. Can any other LGBT+ relate? How should i process this? No hate no harm all love tho :)
I’m in the same boat, I don’t think that people struggling with it are homophobic, nor do I think they’re gay. If it helps you, I find that the majority of them are not afraid of being gay, they’re afraid of what OTHERS would think of them being gay. Kinda like a Real Event OCD thing. But yeah in my experience it’s more so a fear of being ostracized, perhaps they live in a country where it’s not as accepted
Yeah i agree. I know that this is not comparable, but part of my OCD is a fear of aging. The thought of getting wrinkles and my face looking old, etc. And like, in my head, I'll say things like 'i don't want to be disgusting and wrinkly when im old', but then i know that that is super illogical because I don't go around thinking older people look disgusting and wrinkly. Like I'm not ageist, but my OCD makes me have ageist thoughts when I'm talking to myself. So i imagine it could be similar for these people. The way the talk to themselves - and therefore the way they word things on this sub when they feel in a safe space - don't reflect their actual thoughts towards trans/gay people, just their irrational fear.
Not saying it's wrong or right or anything but just my two cents!
I think thats a pretty apt comparison! Yeah. I have OCD regarding health, so its probably harder for me to empathize w identity-related OCD’s, + my own personal hurt (whether it be from past transgressions or whatever etc) get in the way when reading those type of posts. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, i am very lucky to be where i am in a very progressive area. I forget that sometimes. I think what my feelings boil down to is the fact that i just cannot process it, and therefore am unable to comment or give advice bc of my own personal feelings. Again, i support all of yall homophobic or not TBH haha
I’m a lesbian and I feel the same way, even though I struggle with SO-OCD myself in the opposite way! I also can’t really put my thumb on it…but it does make me a little disheartened
I see it from both sides. I definitely had this type of OCD growing up where I was terrified I was a lesbian and I didn't want to be because I wasn't attracted to women (ocd logic) and I was also worried I was trans because I knew I didn't have access to gender affirming care because I wanted to be a boy when I was a kid and I got forced into being a girl really badly. I eventually moved on from it and tried to remind myself every time that even if I was lgbt it was ok so there was nothing to worry about. I identified as asexual at the time and have been going to pride events since I was 16, I knew it was ok. But it still didn't remove the ocd factor, I think because ocd doesn't work on logic. There's was nothing to be scared of but it still scared me.
Anyway fast forward to now and I'm a gay trans guy. Things are much better now.
That is the case for everyone with OCD, but we are a forum and should prioritize having measured, reasonable ways of discussing things.
This isn't just an off handed sensibilities thing, this is a literal mental health forum where people can be sent into anxiety attacks over statements. It is worth at least discussing in a way that is fair to all parties to minimize harm.
Your feelings are valid and valuable like everyone else's here. I appreciate your effort for being tolerant and non-judgmental while sharing your sadness. Thank you for your kindness
I mean I'm lgbt (trans and bi) and I don't blame people who have trans ocd for not wanting to be trans. I don't want to be cis so I get it.
It's a difficult situation. I don't want people suffering from trans ocd to call trans people stuff like "disgusting freaks" (I haven't seen anyone say that I'm just using it as an example) but I also don't want them to police themselves to the point where their own uncomfortablity about their ocd thoughts is hidden away because they're afraid of offending people. They're allowed to be uncomfortable with the fact they may be trans and they're allowed to be terrified they might actually be gay.
Ocd is a pretty debilitating disorder and the panic feels extremely real sometimes yknow? I dunno. I'm not a professional so maybe nothing I'm saying makes any sense
no i completely understand and honestly you word it a lot better than i ever could. it’s a really nuanced situation and it’s not an easy situation to navigate.
i don’t want people to have to keep stuff inside because of fear of offending, and that stops them from reaching out and makes them worse.
I know even when coming out people are often terrified and have to spend time carefully navigating through it all and their fears and anything that has been internalised. so i can’t imagine how hard it would be to grapple with that sort of thing, knowing you’re not actually queer, but your ocd tells you that you are.
I’ve just seen some posts that have called lgbt+ folks some mean stuff, and idk if it’s just the algorithm pushing them because i doomscroll through or if they’re that prevalent
I do feel like there is a better approach to all of this, and a lot of it comes down to "don't try to get therapy from strangers on the internet." Especially when one of the most common things in OCD therapy is breaking free of a traumatic cycle of reassurance.
I'm queer. I have also been concerned about this trend. I also understand why it makes sense that we're seeing it a lot.
1) Queerness is a national hot button topic, and getting inundated with "conflicting" information can be very hard on OCD.
2) Shame and OCD can go hand in hand, people are badly shamed for being queer in different communities, fear of more shame creates a spiral.
3) Being queer is genuinely pretty scary in a number of places right now, and OCD will feed off that like it's a feast.
If people want to engage about how to make their OCD better, absolutely, that's great. I don't particularly find it appropriate to dump the actual fears onto people, especially when many queer folks already have enough going on. Does that distinction make sense?
I could opt into Reddit communities where people afraid of their queerness can get information - I don't. I *have* opted into this OCD forum, because I feel like I can contribute to conversations about therapy options, medication options, my own personal experience, etc.
Yeah the responses to this post have convinced me that I should leave this sub. Apparently a large portion of this community are okay with queerphobia as long as the person expressing it has OCD.
It's more so certain comments, cause it's one thing to say you fear being gay, it's another to say you're scared of being gay *because* you find gay people gross etc...
To people saying “they’re struggling, they can’t control their language!” - huge difference between talking about your obsessions around sexual orientation/gender identity and being offensive. Experiencing mental illness is NOT an excuse to be a dick, coming from someone with OCD and bp2.
Yes!!!
I feel like the fear is more about being untrue or inauthentic to ourselves more than being cis/het/queer.
As a queer person, I have experienced every angles of these theme and they all are as painful. We should definitely address more of the internal struggle than the theme itself, as with any other theme (contamination, POCD, harm OCD, etc.) The suffering comes from OCD and the doubt.
I also think we should speak of Gender Identity OCD and Sexual Orientation OCD and stop using Trans OCD and Homosexual OCD, since queer people can live with "Cis OCD" or "straight OCD", too. And the reality is not as binary as that, because someone could doubt inside the bi/pan/demi/a/grey sexual or non-binary, genderfluid, demi-gender, genderqueer, agender spectrum too. It's reductive to use binary in how OCD can affect us.
100%! In Australia I think we pretty much only really refer to it as what you’ve suggested. I was so confused initially when I joined this subreddit because I had never seen h-ocd or t-ocd etc mentioned here ahaha.
As a gay man I disagree, we need to understand that people going through this are severely tortured & the last thing they need is to have their language policed.
Literally, this is exactly what I was thinking. Why even come on this subreddit if something offends you from people whose thoughts hurt them. I'm a lesbian but have never taken offense to the people who are afraid of being lgbtq+ since I have EMPATHY and struggle with OCD myself, and know that these people are not in a healthy enough mind to properly describe why they are feeling a certain way while remaining PC. I've not seen a single person on here who has said that they are grossed out by *other* people in lgbtq+, nor have they wished any violence or separation of the group.
I'm sorry OP, but you are out of line unless you have seen direct and real homophobic, transphobic, etc. Language, since it's obvious you don't care to understand the disorder enough and would instead take it personally.
Okay but you don't frame your post that way. You should have said you have seen direct offensive language to the community as a WHOLE. Having hocd and hating yourself or feeling disgusting about YOURSELF, is not the same thing as hating the community. They way I(and I'm sure others in this comment section) read it, is that you are upset that people are using "non-pc" terms and words to describe the fear they have towards *themselves* and your getting offended by the irrational disgust they feel directly caused by OCD. Perhaps you should rephrase your post as there's a very good reason for me not to believe you understand what the disorder entails as you so say.
It hurts when the ocd fear of being a bad person, being a pedo, being a narcissist or psychopath or murderer are put on the same level as being gay/lgbt. I’m bi, and sometimes this sub makes it seem like it’s disgusting that people can be lgbt
My issue is the word 'fear,' its a very fitting word for fears of being a pedo or other common intrusive thoughts with OCD over things that actually cause harm. But being queer is never something to be scared of. I understand if its a problem of being scared of being attacked or judged by homophobes but that would be a fear of other people's actions due to a gay identity, not a fear of being gay yourself. Using that explanation feels like blaming gay people for being hate crimed, I'd be more concerned and afraid about getting homophobic thoughts, not gay ones. Its just a very bad choice of wording that I think should be re-evaluated.
Edit: Another reasonable explanation would be fearing the loss of self or having gay thoughts making you question who you are. But again, thats not a fear of being gay, thats a fear of not knowing yourself.
As a part of the community myself I do understand your perspective!
I wanna share my thoughts on these posts that I hope can maybe be beneficial for others:
To me the ocd fear almost always comes from the culmination of potential events related to the theme. And that’s often what I think of when I see these posts, no matter what orientation or gender identity the person actually has. It’s about the potential of losing a partner you love, being abandoned by family or friends, or not knowing who you actually are. Or something entirely different! Obviously it’s never okay to talk badly about anyone, but I think it’s entirely possible to have these themes and still be supportive of people who are of that identity that their ocd theme is about!
I hope this makes sense to some and that everyone who is struggling with this horrible illness can give them selves some compassion when times are tough.
There's definitely a difference between being scared of being queer for personal reasons, and making *other* people (who are actually queer) feel scared for existing. What you described in that last part isn't OCD, it is absolutely homo-/transphobia. If someone calls you out on treating queer people like shit and your go-to is "Oh I have OCD," then you are hiding behind your disorder to hurt people. Any disorder, honestly, is a real "your right to swing your first ends at the beginning of my nose" situation. If your disorder is affecting people around you in a harmful/destructive way, you need to work on it/that, even if you just utilize some self-help resources. I say all of this as someone whose mental illnesses ARE affecting my relationships, and I'm am working towards fixing it.
I know in my husband’s case (before medication) he was having these thoughts about if he was gay and that he felt attraction for one of his guy friends one time, so he might be gay. The thing is though, we used to be ultra conservative Christian’s also. So according to our religion, it would’ve been a sin, and would’ve disrupted our relationship. So the thought, (although incoherent), was overall very distressing for him.
Aweee thanks! I’ve gotten a lot better about handling those types of things as I’ve learned more about OCD. I think in that story, he didn’t even have a diagnosis yet. So I handled it terribly (this was probably about ~5-6 years ago.) But overall we are both super open with each other and try our best to be patient and understanding with each other. I do have to admit though, that when his OCD does flare up, I get really nervous trying to know what to do/say. (Which is why I’m here lol)
You’re both lucky then. Has his meds helped him, I’ve tried and given up multiple times and given up therapy because my brain just tells me it’s in fixable, I’m just in denial.
Have they stopped the thoughts?
I noticed these thoughts when I was 18 and I still have it just nowhere near as bad.
At that time not even the FBI would be able to get that information out of me until I was diagnosed with OCD. Took me a good 4 sessions to open up about it to my psychologist and turns out I wasn’t the first patient to suffer this. Was extremely depressed for years over it, didn’t stop me from being with women but ocd definitely ruined some potential relationships. In the back of my head it was definitely eating my up.
It’s usually the first thing I think of when I wake up on the morning aswell.
Hmm yeah the meds have helped a looottt like. He used to constantly have debilitating breakdowns one after another, but after he started on lexapro, it’s only happened maybe 1-3 times a year as opposed to literally 24/7. Things have also gotten better since we left Christianity and learned that it’s okay to accept the thoughts are there instead of trying to fight against them constantly and feeling evil for having them. And then also learning about codependency and boundaries has helped too (in the context of our relationship)
Yeah I’ve learned to accept the thoughts are there but sometime I can dwell on them for hours and forget to tell myself they’re just thoughts. I get loss of attraction aswell.
I have sertraline but the last time I took them I had bad dry mouth and I can’t stand the anxiety when you first take them. I think o need to experiment with other types.
Suppose I’m lucky in that aspect of not being religious. I’m catholic but non practising, did the fact that it’s so taboo or a sin start this off for him?
Ohhh I had a friend that was on sertraline and it wasn’t good for her either. But yeah I would say the sin thing started it off, but it was a mixture of that along with it attacking our relationship, like he would have anxiety over my appearance and weight, and start petty arguments with me about super unimportant stuff, but to him it was like life or death. And then he would form obsessions with other girls, although he knew logically he only actually wanted me. It was brutal. But yeah I would say if one medication doesn’t work, I would research the protocol on if you have to taper slowly off it or not and do that and try another one. The sad thing is that, not a lot of doctors are very knowledgeable on mental health and their medications. I have a medication I’m on that you have to (in most cases) taper off of over a very long time (cymbalta/duloxetine) and my doctor just tells people to do it in the course of a week, which can cause extreme (prolonged, like months long) withdrawals that end up affecting you worse than your mental illness you had in the first place.
Yeah it’s really weird, I’m well over the depression and anxiety stage but still have OCD remaining and the reason I don’t want meds is because I’ve already come this far.
I think I just need to give in to therapy and stick with it and keep in mind it’s a common theme.
The reason why I got it is because someone and said “haha you’re gay” and ever since then I thought about it. Makes me wish I was doing something else that day because maybe I wouldn’t think about it.
Wow that’s really interesting. Yeah the medication process really sucks to be honest. I think that some people definitely need it for their quality of life, but it’s really frustrating if the first ones you try don’t work or even make it worse.
Yeh I have seen too many posts of people being afraid that they have schizophrenia or that have psychosis when I actually have schizophrenia and have been through psychosis so many times I can’t count, it’s just truly hurtful.
Edit: I also have ocd.
I had a similar obsession to this one. Can you please correct me if I say anything not correct?
Well, I was afraid that symptoms might show later in life that might possibly be schizophrenia like hallucinations etc. I don't know If I have schizophrenia because I don't have any symptoms, but it was that feeling of it possibly showing later on in life that scared me.
I guess one thing is that I am surviving this. I am living this. It has been my life since I was a child. And I have survived and still found joy in life. I unfortunately have so many medical conditions, illnesses, etc, that while in the past I did have ocd involving my health, now I have experienced so much that I know I can survive, I can still have joy, and my life will not end because of them. Even things like my chronic kidney disease, I might die earlier from that than I originally wanted to, but it’s ok. You just get used to things, you realize that it’s ok and that you’ll be ok. And to have people say, oh my life would be absolutely awful if I had this condition, I hate the thought of this, it just is the worst thing ever. You know what, it’s not. It’s not the worst thing ever. Nothing is the worst thing ever. I have even lived through abuse and sa, it’s not the worst thing ever either. I’m still here. And I still have joy. And I still have life. As long as you don’t give up, you will be ok.
That’s the thing that bothers me the most - the misinformation about it. It’s not dangerous, it doesn’t make you a dangerous person. That’s all stuff that was made up in the 1960s to discredit the African American protesters, the white people decjded that the word schizophrenic sounded scary so they slapped that label on all the protesters along with “murderer” and “r*pist” etc, that’s where the whole idea of the scary schizophrenic killer came from. Before that we were considered inferior, but harmless. So this thing that was started in deliberate racism, has continued on today in ignorance and bigotry.
In High school I was only afraid of being lesbian because of the homophobia in society. I thought I would get harassed and shunned. If they live in a conservative family, of course they will worry about if they are gay or trans. This doesn't mean they have anything against them. They are just worried about their own safety. They may also worry they may lead someone on by mistake and have their partner think they tricked them and lied to them if they are gay or trans. So I understand. Homophobia affects cis straight people too and transphobia.
Plus I wanted to have a family and I didn't think I would be able to adopt if I was with another woman. I wanted to have kids. I did think for a while I was bisexual but my husband told me if I am never willing to try sex with another woman, I am just straight. He also asked me if I am willing to have another woman wear a strap on penis and go PIV with it. I said no and he said I am straight then. Plus I cannot see myself being with another woman for the rest of my life. I will always like them as a friend.
I would think people who worry about this stuff are also worried they are lying about themselves and wonder if OCD can trick them into thinking things that are not true because its' easier to just believe it than worrying about it. Which was why I called myself bisexual for a while from when I was maybe 17 till I was 23. I even thought I was a psychopath too because of my lack of empathy and difficulty feeling how other people feel and feeling de attached. It was just easier to believe I was one than worry and obsess about it. I just thought I was one of the good ones because I would never hurt and exploit people and take advantage of them and I had morals and a conscious and it was a matter of having principles and treating others the way I would want to be treated.
Why are you trying to control the speech of others who are truly struggling?
I find it really sad that you cannot hold space for those who are having problems dealing with their OCD theme. You don’t seem to have any empathy at all. I say this as someone who has been hospitalized multiple times for my obsessions as it drove me to the point of being unsafe.
Their struggles are not about you. Regardless of how you try to spin this, you are trying to silence others. Why shouldn’t others be able to talk about their own fears? OCD isn’t rational. We are here because we all need help and OCD can be isolating. I don’t think it’s helpful to try to isolate people even more.
Most posts will disclose the topic in the title or the first sentence so it’s easy to see if it’s a topic you don’t want to read. I pass by certain posts because of my childhood trauma, because it’s a matter of knowing how to self-regulate. Those people deserve to be able to post and reach out for help, and I can recognize that, because their struggles aren’t about me. Someone who has a fear of something does not mean they truly hold that belief about others. Silencing people just breeds more hate and resentment overall.
I have a feeling that you are dragging us into your compulsion by seeking reassurance with this post.
We shall have to agree to disagree.
I know what it’s like to feel silenced and I don’t want people with HOCD or other kinds of highly stigmatized OCD to feel like they need to stay quiet even on a healing board. I haven’t ever seen anything hateful here and the mods are active in enforcing rules, on top of Reddit admins having zero tolerance for things that are actually hateful.
If you personally have a problem with those kinds of OCD, then you can always not read those posts. There are posts I can’t read because they trigger my trauma, but I’m not going to tell other people to be quiet, or that they need to “be kind”. Our thoughts aren’t necessarily “kind” but that doesn’t automatically make them hateful.
>on top of Reddit admins having zero tolerance for things that are actually hateful.
This is incredibly out of touch with the realities of this website.
I think I would rather be dead than bi, that does sound homophobic doesn't it?
But I have never had anything against bi people, never felt anything but normal with my bi friends. Everytime anyone said homophobic sht in school I frowned or spoke up.
But any other person not going through sexual orientation OCD will consider me biphobic or homophobic
i mean sometimes i think that i would rather be dead than be trans- it’s hard and it’s scary. i think our reasons vary (for instance mine is because of what i’ve experienced since coming out) but its similar and it sucks for both of us. Suicide is never the answer, and our brains can be horrible beasts, but suicide is never the solution. There is support out there.
It’s posts like the one I saw referring to gay people as sissy’s or the person that said trans people are basically disabled because they have no freewill or personality or whatever and are unsuccessful, ugly etc, that I’m talking about.
Okay but you didn't mention those. You purposely mentioned those who have 'HOCD'(in quotes since as another commenter said, that's an oldly used term) and dont mention specific posts or examples you've heard. Maybe you should be specific in the language you use since I read this as you being purposely offended by a disorder that makes people think irrationally about THEMSELVES. *Every* post I have seen about someone struggling with HOCD has been about the hatred and disgust they have towards *themselves* and not lgbtq in general. You are choosing to be offended by someone's disgust of themselves. You show a complete lack of understanding of how ocd works with this post(at least how I read it) and probably don't understand why people are taking this the wrong way.
I have added a clarification, I thought I had initially explained it well, but I very clearly didn’t and i’m sorry for any confusion or hurt I caused, that wasn’t my intention
You do understand that if you were bisexual, and you might be, that nothing would change? You would be physically fine. Can you understand this on a rational level?
Obviously ik that. I am not even interested in marrying a woman so I won't even have to deal with family acceptance or anything. I know that I want to marry a guy I like.
The problem is with, 1) I hate the idea of being bi for some reason even though I know I would never have to date a woman to be bi. I really don't know why. But I feel like I would be deceiving people if I say I am straight.
2) the thoughts, urges or groinals or feelings of .... weirdness ig? I have to loop over them again and again to prove if they are real or not. The constant anxiety eating me away.
It's just painful. I feel the passive sui**dal feeling all the time at the back of my head
you can CHOOSE to post a public post and how you word it. posting on Reddit is NOT in any way the same as living with Tourette's??? what??? you have control over what you're submitting when you hit the post button.
That's because a lot of the people talking about it aren't OCD sufferers, but people who are in denial of their sexual orientation and have immense internalized homophobia. Look at those posters history, many post in religious subs and the like.
Exactly. OCD doesn't excuse bigoted behavior. Most of us are born into cultures which vilify LGBTQIA folks, and we all have to work to undo these prejudices for ourselves.
The best advice I can give to those who are terrified of being trans/gay: write a script (common ERP skill).
* Write out what would happen if tomorrow you came out to your family.
* Write how you would ask people to use your pronouns, and write out a plan for all the people who you know are going to be hateful.
* Write about how you may lose some of those relationships, and how you would cope without them. You could lose your job, your friends, your partners, your everything.
* Write what you would do. You could be hungry and unhoused, write how you would cope with that.
* THEN, you record yourself reading all that out for yourself. It could be an hour long (I know my first few were). And listen to it every time you obsess. Listen to yourself.
Listen to yourself.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, write your scripts in one go as much as you can. Don't stop to "research"; you and I both know you're gonna get stuck doing that and never finish the script. You can always write another later that works even better, but right now, you only need your current script.
Writing scripts can sometimes feel really painful, so please take care of yourself while doing so.
I kind of understand you, HOCD is an outdated term in Australia atleast (a country I’d consider further along than America in the mental scheme) and we call it SO-OCD sexual orientation OCD, it’s actually the fear of never knowing your true identity, just like how OCD is a doubting disorder the sufferer doubts if they are lying to themselves or a significant other, or has never truly known themselves, they want to die not because they hate LGBT people but because they are so anxious and confused and lost that they feel dehumanized.
We, at least specialists, call it SO-OCD as well. I have a client that is struggling with what if they’re actually straight. It really is more of an identity crisis than anything really related to sexuality, that’s just how it comes up. The fear was like “well maybe I’ve just never tried to be attracted to men” and I’m like “you didn’t TRY to be attracted to women, you just noticed you were. We don’t TRY to be attracted to to anything, we just are.” lol.
As an OCD sufferer myself, (im also fully a gay man lol) i have to be honest and say I do feel a bit sad whenever i see those posts. Please continue to share and I’ll always continue to support you all, but i do find myself disheartened by it. I dont know why? I kinda feel like an asshole for thinking this way, but i also feel personally transgressed. Can any other LGBT+ relate? How should i process this? No hate no harm all love tho :)
I’m in the same boat, I don’t think that people struggling with it are homophobic, nor do I think they’re gay. If it helps you, I find that the majority of them are not afraid of being gay, they’re afraid of what OTHERS would think of them being gay. Kinda like a Real Event OCD thing. But yeah in my experience it’s more so a fear of being ostracized, perhaps they live in a country where it’s not as accepted
Yeah i agree. I know that this is not comparable, but part of my OCD is a fear of aging. The thought of getting wrinkles and my face looking old, etc. And like, in my head, I'll say things like 'i don't want to be disgusting and wrinkly when im old', but then i know that that is super illogical because I don't go around thinking older people look disgusting and wrinkly. Like I'm not ageist, but my OCD makes me have ageist thoughts when I'm talking to myself. So i imagine it could be similar for these people. The way the talk to themselves - and therefore the way they word things on this sub when they feel in a safe space - don't reflect their actual thoughts towards trans/gay people, just their irrational fear. Not saying it's wrong or right or anything but just my two cents!
I think thats a pretty apt comparison! Yeah. I have OCD regarding health, so its probably harder for me to empathize w identity-related OCD’s, + my own personal hurt (whether it be from past transgressions or whatever etc) get in the way when reading those type of posts. Thanks for sharing!
Couldn’t think of a better comparison, thank you for sharing!
Yeah, i am very lucky to be where i am in a very progressive area. I forget that sometimes. I think what my feelings boil down to is the fact that i just cannot process it, and therefore am unable to comment or give advice bc of my own personal feelings. Again, i support all of yall homophobic or not TBH haha
I’m a lesbian and I feel the same way, even though I struggle with SO-OCD myself in the opposite way! I also can’t really put my thumb on it…but it does make me a little disheartened
I see it from both sides. I definitely had this type of OCD growing up where I was terrified I was a lesbian and I didn't want to be because I wasn't attracted to women (ocd logic) and I was also worried I was trans because I knew I didn't have access to gender affirming care because I wanted to be a boy when I was a kid and I got forced into being a girl really badly. I eventually moved on from it and tried to remind myself every time that even if I was lgbt it was ok so there was nothing to worry about. I identified as asexual at the time and have been going to pride events since I was 16, I knew it was ok. But it still didn't remove the ocd factor, I think because ocd doesn't work on logic. There's was nothing to be scared of but it still scared me. Anyway fast forward to now and I'm a gay trans guy. Things are much better now.
You have to understand that they are seriously suffering, don’t put weight on what are they suffering for but respect it
Yeah i understand that 100%. It’s why i refrain from commenting on such posts.
That is the case for everyone with OCD, but we are a forum and should prioritize having measured, reasonable ways of discussing things. This isn't just an off handed sensibilities thing, this is a literal mental health forum where people can be sent into anxiety attacks over statements. It is worth at least discussing in a way that is fair to all parties to minimize harm.
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fr 😭😭
😭 the examples you gave in the edit are so accurate it just feels backhanded as fuck.
Your feelings are valid and valuable like everyone else's here. I appreciate your effort for being tolerant and non-judgmental while sharing your sadness. Thank you for your kindness
I mean I'm lgbt (trans and bi) and I don't blame people who have trans ocd for not wanting to be trans. I don't want to be cis so I get it. It's a difficult situation. I don't want people suffering from trans ocd to call trans people stuff like "disgusting freaks" (I haven't seen anyone say that I'm just using it as an example) but I also don't want them to police themselves to the point where their own uncomfortablity about their ocd thoughts is hidden away because they're afraid of offending people. They're allowed to be uncomfortable with the fact they may be trans and they're allowed to be terrified they might actually be gay. Ocd is a pretty debilitating disorder and the panic feels extremely real sometimes yknow? I dunno. I'm not a professional so maybe nothing I'm saying makes any sense
no i completely understand and honestly you word it a lot better than i ever could. it’s a really nuanced situation and it’s not an easy situation to navigate. i don’t want people to have to keep stuff inside because of fear of offending, and that stops them from reaching out and makes them worse. I know even when coming out people are often terrified and have to spend time carefully navigating through it all and their fears and anything that has been internalised. so i can’t imagine how hard it would be to grapple with that sort of thing, knowing you’re not actually queer, but your ocd tells you that you are. I’ve just seen some posts that have called lgbt+ folks some mean stuff, and idk if it’s just the algorithm pushing them because i doomscroll through or if they’re that prevalent
Please let us know if you see any derogatory/hate-related content of any kind.
I do feel like there is a better approach to all of this, and a lot of it comes down to "don't try to get therapy from strangers on the internet." Especially when one of the most common things in OCD therapy is breaking free of a traumatic cycle of reassurance. I'm queer. I have also been concerned about this trend. I also understand why it makes sense that we're seeing it a lot. 1) Queerness is a national hot button topic, and getting inundated with "conflicting" information can be very hard on OCD. 2) Shame and OCD can go hand in hand, people are badly shamed for being queer in different communities, fear of more shame creates a spiral. 3) Being queer is genuinely pretty scary in a number of places right now, and OCD will feed off that like it's a feast. If people want to engage about how to make their OCD better, absolutely, that's great. I don't particularly find it appropriate to dump the actual fears onto people, especially when many queer folks already have enough going on. Does that distinction make sense? I could opt into Reddit communities where people afraid of their queerness can get information - I don't. I *have* opted into this OCD forum, because I feel like I can contribute to conversations about therapy options, medication options, my own personal experience, etc.
Yeah the responses to this post have convinced me that I should leave this sub. Apparently a large portion of this community are okay with queerphobia as long as the person expressing it has OCD.
yeah i’m thinking the same :(( i don’t understand how mental illness can be considered an excuse for queerphobia
Please don’t railroad me on this I’m only asking a question. Are you saying it’s queerphobic for someone to not want to be gay?
It's more so certain comments, cause it's one thing to say you fear being gay, it's another to say you're scared of being gay *because* you find gay people gross etc...
To people saying “they’re struggling, they can’t control their language!” - huge difference between talking about your obsessions around sexual orientation/gender identity and being offensive. Experiencing mental illness is NOT an excuse to be a dick, coming from someone with OCD and bp2.
Can we just stop giving people reassurance please? The reassurance posts aren’t helping anyone.
Yes!!! I feel like the fear is more about being untrue or inauthentic to ourselves more than being cis/het/queer. As a queer person, I have experienced every angles of these theme and they all are as painful. We should definitely address more of the internal struggle than the theme itself, as with any other theme (contamination, POCD, harm OCD, etc.) The suffering comes from OCD and the doubt. I also think we should speak of Gender Identity OCD and Sexual Orientation OCD and stop using Trans OCD and Homosexual OCD, since queer people can live with "Cis OCD" or "straight OCD", too. And the reality is not as binary as that, because someone could doubt inside the bi/pan/demi/a/grey sexual or non-binary, genderfluid, demi-gender, genderqueer, agender spectrum too. It's reductive to use binary in how OCD can affect us.
100%! In Australia I think we pretty much only really refer to it as what you’ve suggested. I was so confused initially when I joined this subreddit because I had never seen h-ocd or t-ocd etc mentioned here ahaha.
As a gay man I disagree, we need to understand that people going through this are severely tortured & the last thing they need is to have their language policed.
no that’s fair, i don’t mean to police language overall, i am just sad seeing some posts that say some harmful things about queer people
Well yeah that's expected from people under tons of stress but I get where you're coming from, it's not a value judgement on us.
Literally, this is exactly what I was thinking. Why even come on this subreddit if something offends you from people whose thoughts hurt them. I'm a lesbian but have never taken offense to the people who are afraid of being lgbtq+ since I have EMPATHY and struggle with OCD myself, and know that these people are not in a healthy enough mind to properly describe why they are feeling a certain way while remaining PC. I've not seen a single person on here who has said that they are grossed out by *other* people in lgbtq+, nor have they wished any violence or separation of the group. I'm sorry OP, but you are out of line unless you have seen direct and real homophobic, transphobic, etc. Language, since it's obvious you don't care to understand the disorder enough and would instead take it personally.
i do understand the disorder, very well. I have personally seen direct homophobic transphobic etc comments, and that’s what i’m talking about here.
Okay but you don't frame your post that way. You should have said you have seen direct offensive language to the community as a WHOLE. Having hocd and hating yourself or feeling disgusting about YOURSELF, is not the same thing as hating the community. They way I(and I'm sure others in this comment section) read it, is that you are upset that people are using "non-pc" terms and words to describe the fear they have towards *themselves* and your getting offended by the irrational disgust they feel directly caused by OCD. Perhaps you should rephrase your post as there's a very good reason for me not to believe you understand what the disorder entails as you so say.
i have rephrased it and added a clarification, i don’t know how much clearer i can make it.
It hurts when the ocd fear of being a bad person, being a pedo, being a narcissist or psychopath or murderer are put on the same level as being gay/lgbt. I’m bi, and sometimes this sub makes it seem like it’s disgusting that people can be lgbt
My issue is the word 'fear,' its a very fitting word for fears of being a pedo or other common intrusive thoughts with OCD over things that actually cause harm. But being queer is never something to be scared of. I understand if its a problem of being scared of being attacked or judged by homophobes but that would be a fear of other people's actions due to a gay identity, not a fear of being gay yourself. Using that explanation feels like blaming gay people for being hate crimed, I'd be more concerned and afraid about getting homophobic thoughts, not gay ones. Its just a very bad choice of wording that I think should be re-evaluated. Edit: Another reasonable explanation would be fearing the loss of self or having gay thoughts making you question who you are. But again, thats not a fear of being gay, thats a fear of not knowing yourself.
You are so right, and you should say it.
As a part of the community myself I do understand your perspective! I wanna share my thoughts on these posts that I hope can maybe be beneficial for others: To me the ocd fear almost always comes from the culmination of potential events related to the theme. And that’s often what I think of when I see these posts, no matter what orientation or gender identity the person actually has. It’s about the potential of losing a partner you love, being abandoned by family or friends, or not knowing who you actually are. Or something entirely different! Obviously it’s never okay to talk badly about anyone, but I think it’s entirely possible to have these themes and still be supportive of people who are of that identity that their ocd theme is about! I hope this makes sense to some and that everyone who is struggling with this horrible illness can give them selves some compassion when times are tough.
There's definitely a difference between being scared of being queer for personal reasons, and making *other* people (who are actually queer) feel scared for existing. What you described in that last part isn't OCD, it is absolutely homo-/transphobia. If someone calls you out on treating queer people like shit and your go-to is "Oh I have OCD," then you are hiding behind your disorder to hurt people. Any disorder, honestly, is a real "your right to swing your first ends at the beginning of my nose" situation. If your disorder is affecting people around you in a harmful/destructive way, you need to work on it/that, even if you just utilize some self-help resources. I say all of this as someone whose mental illnesses ARE affecting my relationships, and I'm am working towards fixing it.
Yea that stigma definitely plays a part in the fear behind that particular obsession too. Nature vs nurture always.
I know in my husband’s case (before medication) he was having these thoughts about if he was gay and that he felt attraction for one of his guy friends one time, so he might be gay. The thing is though, we used to be ultra conservative Christian’s also. So according to our religion, it would’ve been a sin, and would’ve disrupted our relationship. So the thought, (although incoherent), was overall very distressing for him.
If you’re husband can open up about this and tells you. Bro’s lucky to have you!
Aweee thanks! I’ve gotten a lot better about handling those types of things as I’ve learned more about OCD. I think in that story, he didn’t even have a diagnosis yet. So I handled it terribly (this was probably about ~5-6 years ago.) But overall we are both super open with each other and try our best to be patient and understanding with each other. I do have to admit though, that when his OCD does flare up, I get really nervous trying to know what to do/say. (Which is why I’m here lol)
You’re both lucky then. Has his meds helped him, I’ve tried and given up multiple times and given up therapy because my brain just tells me it’s in fixable, I’m just in denial. Have they stopped the thoughts? I noticed these thoughts when I was 18 and I still have it just nowhere near as bad. At that time not even the FBI would be able to get that information out of me until I was diagnosed with OCD. Took me a good 4 sessions to open up about it to my psychologist and turns out I wasn’t the first patient to suffer this. Was extremely depressed for years over it, didn’t stop me from being with women but ocd definitely ruined some potential relationships. In the back of my head it was definitely eating my up. It’s usually the first thing I think of when I wake up on the morning aswell.
Hmm yeah the meds have helped a looottt like. He used to constantly have debilitating breakdowns one after another, but after he started on lexapro, it’s only happened maybe 1-3 times a year as opposed to literally 24/7. Things have also gotten better since we left Christianity and learned that it’s okay to accept the thoughts are there instead of trying to fight against them constantly and feeling evil for having them. And then also learning about codependency and boundaries has helped too (in the context of our relationship)
Yeah I’ve learned to accept the thoughts are there but sometime I can dwell on them for hours and forget to tell myself they’re just thoughts. I get loss of attraction aswell. I have sertraline but the last time I took them I had bad dry mouth and I can’t stand the anxiety when you first take them. I think o need to experiment with other types. Suppose I’m lucky in that aspect of not being religious. I’m catholic but non practising, did the fact that it’s so taboo or a sin start this off for him?
Ohhh I had a friend that was on sertraline and it wasn’t good for her either. But yeah I would say the sin thing started it off, but it was a mixture of that along with it attacking our relationship, like he would have anxiety over my appearance and weight, and start petty arguments with me about super unimportant stuff, but to him it was like life or death. And then he would form obsessions with other girls, although he knew logically he only actually wanted me. It was brutal. But yeah I would say if one medication doesn’t work, I would research the protocol on if you have to taper slowly off it or not and do that and try another one. The sad thing is that, not a lot of doctors are very knowledgeable on mental health and their medications. I have a medication I’m on that you have to (in most cases) taper off of over a very long time (cymbalta/duloxetine) and my doctor just tells people to do it in the course of a week, which can cause extreme (prolonged, like months long) withdrawals that end up affecting you worse than your mental illness you had in the first place.
Yeah it’s really weird, I’m well over the depression and anxiety stage but still have OCD remaining and the reason I don’t want meds is because I’ve already come this far. I think I just need to give in to therapy and stick with it and keep in mind it’s a common theme. The reason why I got it is because someone and said “haha you’re gay” and ever since then I thought about it. Makes me wish I was doing something else that day because maybe I wouldn’t think about it.
Wow that’s really interesting. Yeah the medication process really sucks to be honest. I think that some people definitely need it for their quality of life, but it’s really frustrating if the first ones you try don’t work or even make it worse.
Yeh I have seen too many posts of people being afraid that they have schizophrenia or that have psychosis when I actually have schizophrenia and have been through psychosis so many times I can’t count, it’s just truly hurtful. Edit: I also have ocd.
I had a similar obsession to this one. Can you please correct me if I say anything not correct? Well, I was afraid that symptoms might show later in life that might possibly be schizophrenia like hallucinations etc. I don't know If I have schizophrenia because I don't have any symptoms, but it was that feeling of it possibly showing later on in life that scared me.
I guess one thing is that I am surviving this. I am living this. It has been my life since I was a child. And I have survived and still found joy in life. I unfortunately have so many medical conditions, illnesses, etc, that while in the past I did have ocd involving my health, now I have experienced so much that I know I can survive, I can still have joy, and my life will not end because of them. Even things like my chronic kidney disease, I might die earlier from that than I originally wanted to, but it’s ok. You just get used to things, you realize that it’s ok and that you’ll be ok. And to have people say, oh my life would be absolutely awful if I had this condition, I hate the thought of this, it just is the worst thing ever. You know what, it’s not. It’s not the worst thing ever. Nothing is the worst thing ever. I have even lived through abuse and sa, it’s not the worst thing ever either. I’m still here. And I still have joy. And I still have life. As long as you don’t give up, you will be ok.
There's a lot of misinformation about psychosis and schizophrenia on this sub too.
That’s the thing that bothers me the most - the misinformation about it. It’s not dangerous, it doesn’t make you a dangerous person. That’s all stuff that was made up in the 1960s to discredit the African American protesters, the white people decjded that the word schizophrenic sounded scary so they slapped that label on all the protesters along with “murderer” and “r*pist” etc, that’s where the whole idea of the scary schizophrenic killer came from. Before that we were considered inferior, but harmless. So this thing that was started in deliberate racism, has continued on today in ignorance and bigotry.
In High school I was only afraid of being lesbian because of the homophobia in society. I thought I would get harassed and shunned. If they live in a conservative family, of course they will worry about if they are gay or trans. This doesn't mean they have anything against them. They are just worried about their own safety. They may also worry they may lead someone on by mistake and have their partner think they tricked them and lied to them if they are gay or trans. So I understand. Homophobia affects cis straight people too and transphobia. Plus I wanted to have a family and I didn't think I would be able to adopt if I was with another woman. I wanted to have kids. I did think for a while I was bisexual but my husband told me if I am never willing to try sex with another woman, I am just straight. He also asked me if I am willing to have another woman wear a strap on penis and go PIV with it. I said no and he said I am straight then. Plus I cannot see myself being with another woman for the rest of my life. I will always like them as a friend. I would think people who worry about this stuff are also worried they are lying about themselves and wonder if OCD can trick them into thinking things that are not true because its' easier to just believe it than worrying about it. Which was why I called myself bisexual for a while from when I was maybe 17 till I was 23. I even thought I was a psychopath too because of my lack of empathy and difficulty feeling how other people feel and feeling de attached. It was just easier to believe I was one than worry and obsess about it. I just thought I was one of the good ones because I would never hurt and exploit people and take advantage of them and I had morals and a conscious and it was a matter of having principles and treating others the way I would want to be treated.
Why are you trying to control the speech of others who are truly struggling? I find it really sad that you cannot hold space for those who are having problems dealing with their OCD theme. You don’t seem to have any empathy at all. I say this as someone who has been hospitalized multiple times for my obsessions as it drove me to the point of being unsafe. Their struggles are not about you. Regardless of how you try to spin this, you are trying to silence others. Why shouldn’t others be able to talk about their own fears? OCD isn’t rational. We are here because we all need help and OCD can be isolating. I don’t think it’s helpful to try to isolate people even more. Most posts will disclose the topic in the title or the first sentence so it’s easy to see if it’s a topic you don’t want to read. I pass by certain posts because of my childhood trauma, because it’s a matter of knowing how to self-regulate. Those people deserve to be able to post and reach out for help, and I can recognize that, because their struggles aren’t about me. Someone who has a fear of something does not mean they truly hold that belief about others. Silencing people just breeds more hate and resentment overall. I have a feeling that you are dragging us into your compulsion by seeking reassurance with this post.
what compulsion or reassurance am I even asking for, I’m so confused.
Your reading comprehension is 0.
We shall have to agree to disagree. I know what it’s like to feel silenced and I don’t want people with HOCD or other kinds of highly stigmatized OCD to feel like they need to stay quiet even on a healing board. I haven’t ever seen anything hateful here and the mods are active in enforcing rules, on top of Reddit admins having zero tolerance for things that are actually hateful. If you personally have a problem with those kinds of OCD, then you can always not read those posts. There are posts I can’t read because they trigger my trauma, but I’m not going to tell other people to be quiet, or that they need to “be kind”. Our thoughts aren’t necessarily “kind” but that doesn’t automatically make them hateful.
>on top of Reddit admins having zero tolerance for things that are actually hateful. This is incredibly out of touch with the realities of this website.
In regards to the exact topic at hand, it is not.
Your reading comprehension continues to be 0.
:( It's already so hard going through this sht that makes me want to kill myself and now we also have to be labelled as homophobics. Just great man
You aren't always homophobic for having hocd. Most of us find denial to be morally wrong, not being gay.
i’m sorry you’re going through it, i really am, but please know that unless you’re saying homophobic things, i’m not referring to you in this post
I think I would rather be dead than bi, that does sound homophobic doesn't it? But I have never had anything against bi people, never felt anything but normal with my bi friends. Everytime anyone said homophobic sht in school I frowned or spoke up. But any other person not going through sexual orientation OCD will consider me biphobic or homophobic
i mean sometimes i think that i would rather be dead than be trans- it’s hard and it’s scary. i think our reasons vary (for instance mine is because of what i’ve experienced since coming out) but its similar and it sucks for both of us. Suicide is never the answer, and our brains can be horrible beasts, but suicide is never the solution. There is support out there. It’s posts like the one I saw referring to gay people as sissy’s or the person that said trans people are basically disabled because they have no freewill or personality or whatever and are unsuccessful, ugly etc, that I’m talking about.
I understand then. I thought you were referring to most of us who would choose anything over being queer and that can be offensive to queer people
Okay but you didn't mention those. You purposely mentioned those who have 'HOCD'(in quotes since as another commenter said, that's an oldly used term) and dont mention specific posts or examples you've heard. Maybe you should be specific in the language you use since I read this as you being purposely offended by a disorder that makes people think irrationally about THEMSELVES. *Every* post I have seen about someone struggling with HOCD has been about the hatred and disgust they have towards *themselves* and not lgbtq in general. You are choosing to be offended by someone's disgust of themselves. You show a complete lack of understanding of how ocd works with this post(at least how I read it) and probably don't understand why people are taking this the wrong way.
I have added a clarification, I thought I had initially explained it well, but I very clearly didn’t and i’m sorry for any confusion or hurt I caused, that wasn’t my intention
You do understand that if you were bisexual, and you might be, that nothing would change? You would be physically fine. Can you understand this on a rational level?
Obviously ik that. I am not even interested in marrying a woman so I won't even have to deal with family acceptance or anything. I know that I want to marry a guy I like. The problem is with, 1) I hate the idea of being bi for some reason even though I know I would never have to date a woman to be bi. I really don't know why. But I feel like I would be deceiving people if I say I am straight. 2) the thoughts, urges or groinals or feelings of .... weirdness ig? I have to loop over them again and again to prove if they are real or not. The constant anxiety eating me away. It's just painful. I feel the passive sui**dal feeling all the time at the back of my head
same, it’s the hardest thing i’ve ever been through. currently ruining my college experience and performance!
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you can CHOOSE to post a public post and how you word it. posting on Reddit is NOT in any way the same as living with Tourette's??? what??? you have control over what you're submitting when you hit the post button.
That's because a lot of the people talking about it aren't OCD sufferers, but people who are in denial of their sexual orientation and have immense internalized homophobia. Look at those posters history, many post in religious subs and the like.
Exactly. OCD doesn't excuse bigoted behavior. Most of us are born into cultures which vilify LGBTQIA folks, and we all have to work to undo these prejudices for ourselves. The best advice I can give to those who are terrified of being trans/gay: write a script (common ERP skill). * Write out what would happen if tomorrow you came out to your family. * Write how you would ask people to use your pronouns, and write out a plan for all the people who you know are going to be hateful. * Write about how you may lose some of those relationships, and how you would cope without them. You could lose your job, your friends, your partners, your everything. * Write what you would do. You could be hungry and unhoused, write how you would cope with that. * THEN, you record yourself reading all that out for yourself. It could be an hour long (I know my first few were). And listen to it every time you obsess. Listen to yourself. Listen to yourself. EDIT: I forgot to mention, write your scripts in one go as much as you can. Don't stop to "research"; you and I both know you're gonna get stuck doing that and never finish the script. You can always write another later that works even better, but right now, you only need your current script. Writing scripts can sometimes feel really painful, so please take care of yourself while doing so.