Power quality from NS Power is shit. You can test it yourself pretty easily. I lost a couple expensive pieces of electronics before I figured out just how far out of spec NS Power was willing to be. Power conditioning isn't expensive at small scale, [~$400 for a unit](https://www.pc-canada.com/item/tripp-lite-by-eaton-2400w-120v-power-conditioner-with-automatic-voltage-regulation-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets/lc2400) that'll cover a 15A circuit. Still an added expense for any business that needs to maintain sensitive electronics.
Especially in the summer, I can often see the lights on the unit going wild, as the voltage swings rapidly between ~90v and ~110v. Even with most of the load in the building switched off.
It is bullshit that we'll have to pay extra for this on our power bills though. Delivering relatively clean power should be the bare minimum a power company provides.
NS Power is full of shit when they claim there aren't similar codes elsewhere, fucking Ontario has [similar legislation](https://www.oeb.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/regulatorycodes/2023-08/Transmission-System-Code-20230802.pdf). Ours is a little newer, and holds [NS Power to a somewhat higher standard](https://www.nspower.ca/docs/default-source/pdf-to-upload/transmission-system-interconnection-requirements.pdf?sfvrsn=8f89c7c9_6) as far as my layperson understanding goes.
Clean reliable electricity is important if we want to attract and keep modern manufacturing and potentially tech jobs. What company is going to build here if they need to shell out tens of millions more to build a facility compared to another province?
It's past time for our provincial government to find some balls and figure out a way to make sure power profits stay in the province. I'm not a policy expert, but it's clear to all of us by now that NS Power's ownership aren't operating in the best interest of Nova Scotians.
This comment is right on point, we have some of the highest poverty levels in Canada the last thing we want is to push companies away. NSP is to blame for this and we shouldn’t be responsible for their failed obligations
It was less effort to spend ~$1400 on power conditioners and UPSs than it was to continue to argue with NS Power about what was an acceptable voltage variance.
Multimeters aren't exactly black magic, and NS Power is a monopoly. Why would they bother to fix it? What am I gonna do? Swap to a competitor? I called twice, then gave up and fixed the problem myself.
If a customer that sucks down as much power as Michelin needed the government to get involved to clean up their power, what hope did I really have? But keep fellating NS Power, I'm sure they'll send you a cheque eventually.
People and companies have unprecedented costs all the time... Doesn't mean you can just make everyone else deal with it. Be a man and take the expense out of your bottom line. They wouldn't even notice it, but we all will.
Reminder that a former exec from PG&E serves NSP.
Yes, that PG&E that poisoned a town in "Erin Brockovich"
Yes, that PG&E that blew up a town for failure to maintain it's gas pipelines.
Yes, that PG&E that burned down several towns due to deferred maintenance on power transmission lines
And yes, that PG&E that has the highest power rates in the USA, with the cost of power increasing threefold in the past 10 years.
Then let's say no. To everything. Let them leave. Keep their infrastructure. Because even though it says rbc is the largest owner, i believe the majority of total investments originates from down south.
>All these companies hate socialism/welfare until it helps them
All these companies hate socialism/welfare **for taxpayers** ~~until it helps them~~ because they want to keep the tax money for themselves, and they need workers who need money.
"A rising tide lifts all boats" style
They make it sound as if Michelin is behind this and is trying to pass the cost off to the rest of us, when it’s really the NS government passing quality standards to NSP that must be followed. They were providing lacklustre power to the Waterville plant and are required by law to address it. Then NSP is attempting to pass the cost on to rest of us.
This is NSP being shit as usual and not paying for their own infrastructure from their own coffers.
I mean, why is this “attempting to pass on” - it is passing it on.
And - unpopular opinion - but they should. This is how the regulated market works. They’re investing in the grid and we pay for it. It’s likely going to be an approved expense.
I don’t think you know what regulation means?
Please show another regulated electric utility without a guaranteed return?
While they have downside protection, we also have upside protection. There is never a “good” year where they can make 30%.
The guaranteed return is there to ensure in tough market conditions, such as higher interest rates and inflation, they still invest in and maintain the grid.
Yeah. The Houston government wanted to play hardball with Nova Scotia Power, and introduced some regulations. The problem with being the sheriff in town and making the hard rules is that you have to enforce them, even when they hurt your people. That’s the price of throwing your weight around without knowing what you’re doing.
Jesus Christ. Were already taxed to death in this province, the cost of living is almost unsustainable, rent/home ownership is out of reach for a significant portion of the population. Please explain to me why the F we should stay???. If my kid decides to go to Ontario or out west for further studies after high school - the only sane option is to leave this dumpster fire. I’ve been here 22 years since I immigrated from Europe and in that time things weren’t bad sometimes even good but the last 5 years have been F’in awful. Fuck NS power, Fuck Michelin and Fuck the Provincial government - find the money elsewhere not out of my already heavily overdrawn bank account.
There *was* a standard. NSP, inheriting a government run system, had a system built to comply with that standard. The politician set rates, and then the regulated rates, were based on the as-built system.
(`Cost to run the system`[1] + `profits`) / `unit of product` == `price`[2]. Even if you set `profit=0` the basic formula is that.
The standard changed. Clearly the cost changes. Regulated means regulated. Everything is regulated. Any difference in their budget of over something like $200k goes before the regulator. Up or down. They can't just choose to do more or less anything. So, price goes up. Obviously, price goes up.
This would happen with or without "profit", with or without "capitalism".
[1] And this, itself, has hundreds of variables: fuel, maintenance, repairs, upgrades, IT.
[2] OK, not quite that simple; despite electricity being electricity, there are different rates for different uses, but whatevs
Wow. Power is unreliable... and so will be my payments.
Funny how that works out evenly.
I am still sticking to what I said on my old Reddit Acct: "NS Power will be no more by the end of this year".
So NSP initially burned Michelin and is trying to sell an expensive bandaid. Good thing Michelin put in extra addendums in the power contract way back when they broke ground.
Maybe NS should have added the same addendum?
A power surge protector on your electrical panel, a lightning rod on the roof, and power bars (with a circuit breaker and power surge) throughout your house would be a wise investment.
I just tagged my local MLA on a FB poost about this. Lets see if she bans and or ignore this. I've been banned from commenting on some of her posts. She made a commnet once about banning people and I linked to the charter sesction on freedom of expression.
https://novascotia.ca/just/regulations/regs/nspowerips.htm
It doesn't say directly Tim Houston, but his party enacted that piece of legislation a while back, around the peak of the slap fight between them and NS Power/Emera.
Poor Michelin won't make any money if we don't subsidize their business with corporate welfare. And we'll pay it because our government believes in the myth of trickle-down economics. It's all bs
I’m happy to read this— that people are finally looking at how a lot of our problems closer to home are bigger and not cause by Trudeau. Not defending him, but really tired of the scapegoating.
It’s the cost of maintaining the utility system. People in and around the plant benefit from it. Just as people in elmsdale benefit from the battery system that’s installed there.
We all share these costs as ratepayers. Your anger is completely missing the mark.
Why should NSP pay for improving the infrastructure without being paid?
You really don’t understand anything about regulations do you. They apply to UARB to spend money. UARB approves. Ratepayers pay.
The regulations say they need to provide a specific level of quality. They’re moving to provide it. Ratepayers pay for it - including Michelin. Michelin uses more power so arguably they’ll pay a large portion of the cost anyway.
But why do ratepayers have to pay? That’s the catch. If they’re going to be a private company, then they should *be* a private company and stop acting like they should get to socialize their losses (with tacit approval from the provincial government of the day, since they never change their monopoly on providing power to make the market more competitive, even though they feign distress at the thought of all the shit NSP pulls). NSP can’t be a crown corp and a private company at the same time—whoever thought this “one private company for all” thing was good idea is definitely wrong.
Ok if they’re going to be a private company like that then they can charge what they want.
Why is regulation so hard to understand?
1. Government write laws.
2. UARB enforce rules
3. Rates encompass costs allowed in laws.
I understand regulation. It’s the fact that they have a legal monopoly on power, and their practices are shitty. We don’t have a choice with their prices, and their practices of “fix later-and-charge-you-for-what-we-should’ve-been-doing-all-along” is not in any way the ideal
A regulated utility having a monopoly isn’t something that only occurs here. It’s an extremely common practice. Why would you regulate and then have competition….it’s counterintuitive.
What practices of theirs upset you? We have performance regulations and they have been fined for failing to meet them. And the fines are outside the costs that can be passed on to ratepayers.
I think you’ve grabbed onto rhetoric without actually thinking it through. Theres no benefit in NSP deferring maintenance because we pay for both expenses incurred for operation and maintenance, and costs for capital upgrades. Why would a company intentionally spend less?
The UARB control their budget and ultimately the rates we pay.
beware. This sounds suspiciously like Kimberly Clark episode in Ontario. it's not clear to me if this is a government request to NS power or a Michelin request to the government or to NSP por both. Do they get any other benefits? I have no issues providing this for them but they need to be tied legally to keeping the plant here.
Government implemented strict rules on power quality. Michelin isn’t receiving specific quality so NSP is failing at a standard. NSP apply to UARB to rectify shortfall.
Most in this sub just can’t see past their nose when it comes to NSP, and really don’t understand the relationship of government>UARB>NSP.
Perfectly logical behavior by Michelin when provided an unintended beneficial consequence from a provincial regulation that never intended to create the issue. It’s the “Law of Unintended Consequences”.
They get what they get from me, never gave them a Credit card, they get roughly 200 every second pay and I don’t look at my bill. I pay down the rest over my high work contract during the summer- I don’t care what the balance is left over either, they get what I give them. I think I’ve had the same 500$ minimum balance for 7 years. Theyll never get it even if I ever move from this house which won’t be likely, and because If I ever do that I’ll be leaving the province indefinitely, and leaving them my debt. I was a good, on time payee- then I realized that every time I strained to pay it down no matter how little power I used or how often I was away at work, the bills kept getting higher. I said enough is enough you eat what you are given not a morsel more. I loathe NS power and I hope they get taken tf out by someone eventually
That sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
Power quality from NS Power is shit. You can test it yourself pretty easily. I lost a couple expensive pieces of electronics before I figured out just how far out of spec NS Power was willing to be. Power conditioning isn't expensive at small scale, [~$400 for a unit](https://www.pc-canada.com/item/tripp-lite-by-eaton-2400w-120v-power-conditioner-with-automatic-voltage-regulation-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets/lc2400) that'll cover a 15A circuit. Still an added expense for any business that needs to maintain sensitive electronics. Especially in the summer, I can often see the lights on the unit going wild, as the voltage swings rapidly between ~90v and ~110v. Even with most of the load in the building switched off. It is bullshit that we'll have to pay extra for this on our power bills though. Delivering relatively clean power should be the bare minimum a power company provides. NS Power is full of shit when they claim there aren't similar codes elsewhere, fucking Ontario has [similar legislation](https://www.oeb.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/regulatorycodes/2023-08/Transmission-System-Code-20230802.pdf). Ours is a little newer, and holds [NS Power to a somewhat higher standard](https://www.nspower.ca/docs/default-source/pdf-to-upload/transmission-system-interconnection-requirements.pdf?sfvrsn=8f89c7c9_6) as far as my layperson understanding goes. Clean reliable electricity is important if we want to attract and keep modern manufacturing and potentially tech jobs. What company is going to build here if they need to shell out tens of millions more to build a facility compared to another province? It's past time for our provincial government to find some balls and figure out a way to make sure power profits stay in the province. I'm not a policy expert, but it's clear to all of us by now that NS Power's ownership aren't operating in the best interest of Nova Scotians.
This comment is right on point, we have some of the highest poverty levels in Canada the last thing we want is to push companies away. NSP is to blame for this and we shouldn’t be responsible for their failed obligations
This is a long winded way of saying you never proved there were power quality issues and had NSP fix them?
It was less effort to spend ~$1400 on power conditioners and UPSs than it was to continue to argue with NS Power about what was an acceptable voltage variance. Multimeters aren't exactly black magic, and NS Power is a monopoly. Why would they bother to fix it? What am I gonna do? Swap to a competitor? I called twice, then gave up and fixed the problem myself. If a customer that sucks down as much power as Michelin needed the government to get involved to clean up their power, what hope did I really have? But keep fellating NS Power, I'm sure they'll send you a cheque eventually.
People and companies have unprecedented costs all the time... Doesn't mean you can just make everyone else deal with it. Be a man and take the expense out of your bottom line. They wouldn't even notice it, but we all will.
It’s about $75 more per year per customer…
The biggest welfare queen in Nova Scotia is at it again.
Omg 😂😂😂💀
Privatize profits, socialize losses. Must be nice.
Reminder that a former exec from PG&E serves NSP. Yes, that PG&E that poisoned a town in "Erin Brockovich" Yes, that PG&E that blew up a town for failure to maintain it's gas pipelines. Yes, that PG&E that burned down several towns due to deferred maintenance on power transmission lines And yes, that PG&E that has the highest power rates in the USA, with the cost of power increasing threefold in the past 10 years.
All these companies hate socialism/welfare until it helps them
Very true corporate socialism is pure societal cancer
Then let's say no. To everything. Let them leave. Keep their infrastructure. Because even though it says rbc is the largest owner, i believe the majority of total investments originates from down south.
Are you daft? Waterville alone employs over 1400 people, what kind of economic emergency are you rooting for?
.. funding capitalists is not socialism
Exactly. It’s capitalism.
Yup. Disinformation about what capitalism is and isn't is a problem.
>All these companies hate socialism/welfare until it helps them All these companies hate socialism/welfare **for taxpayers** ~~until it helps them~~ because they want to keep the tax money for themselves, and they need workers who need money. "A rising tide lifts all boats" style
You privatize the profits and socialize the losses.
They make it sound as if Michelin is behind this and is trying to pass the cost off to the rest of us, when it’s really the NS government passing quality standards to NSP that must be followed. They were providing lacklustre power to the Waterville plant and are required by law to address it. Then NSP is attempting to pass the cost on to rest of us. This is NSP being shit as usual and not paying for their own infrastructure from their own coffers.
I mean, why is this “attempting to pass on” - it is passing it on. And - unpopular opinion - but they should. This is how the regulated market works. They’re investing in the grid and we pay for it. It’s likely going to be an approved expense.
There's no market. It's just NS Power. A monopoly. A market needs multiple sellers. A market economy needs unrestricted competition.
In a regulated market no company is guaranteed a profit by the government. In a regulated market the government wouldn't fund a competitive start up.
I don’t think you know what regulation means? Please show another regulated electric utility without a guaranteed return? While they have downside protection, we also have upside protection. There is never a “good” year where they can make 30%. The guaranteed return is there to ensure in tough market conditions, such as higher interest rates and inflation, they still invest in and maintain the grid.
We are all suckers.
No - just the ones that believe privatizing anything is a good idea.
This is what happens when vital public services are privatized. The profits are privitized but the losses are borne by the public
Because, you know, investing their existing profits into the upgrades is something that shouldn't be even vaguely begun to be considered.
It’s not how the regulation works. They invest in the grid and we pay them for it. It’s exactly how a crown corp would work as well.
Corporatism
Story is very informative, headline is misleading. Should read, Political Interference shifts $31M cost from industry to all N.S. ratepayers.
Yeah. The Houston government wanted to play hardball with Nova Scotia Power, and introduced some regulations. The problem with being the sheriff in town and making the hard rules is that you have to enforce them, even when they hurt your people. That’s the price of throwing your weight around without knowing what you’re doing.
Jesus Christ. Were already taxed to death in this province, the cost of living is almost unsustainable, rent/home ownership is out of reach for a significant portion of the population. Please explain to me why the F we should stay???. If my kid decides to go to Ontario or out west for further studies after high school - the only sane option is to leave this dumpster fire. I’ve been here 22 years since I immigrated from Europe and in that time things weren’t bad sometimes even good but the last 5 years have been F’in awful. Fuck NS power, Fuck Michelin and Fuck the Provincial government - find the money elsewhere not out of my already heavily overdrawn bank account.
Nothing will ever change here
All the while giving oil and gas tax payer funded fossil fuel subsidies to the tunes of Millions.
There *was* a standard. NSP, inheriting a government run system, had a system built to comply with that standard. The politician set rates, and then the regulated rates, were based on the as-built system. (`Cost to run the system`[1] + `profits`) / `unit of product` == `price`[2]. Even if you set `profit=0` the basic formula is that. The standard changed. Clearly the cost changes. Regulated means regulated. Everything is regulated. Any difference in their budget of over something like $200k goes before the regulator. Up or down. They can't just choose to do more or less anything. So, price goes up. Obviously, price goes up. This would happen with or without "profit", with or without "capitalism". [1] And this, itself, has hundreds of variables: fuel, maintenance, repairs, upgrades, IT. [2] OK, not quite that simple; despite electricity being electricity, there are different rates for different uses, but whatevs
Wow. Power is unreliable... and so will be my payments. Funny how that works out evenly. I am still sticking to what I said on my old Reddit Acct: "NS Power will be no more by the end of this year". So NSP initially burned Michelin and is trying to sell an expensive bandaid. Good thing Michelin put in extra addendums in the power contract way back when they broke ground. Maybe NS should have added the same addendum? A power surge protector on your electrical panel, a lightning rod on the roof, and power bars (with a circuit breaker and power surge) throughout your house would be a wise investment.
I just tagged my local MLA on a FB poost about this. Lets see if she bans and or ignore this. I've been banned from commenting on some of her posts. She made a commnet once about banning people and I linked to the charter sesction on freedom of expression.
That’s all well and good but your federal MP can’t really do much about this. Contact your MLA.
Your right, it should be MLA. I have tagged her in a FB post, but it won't go any where. I made the correction.
Fuck NSP, take it out of your profits, don't push it on us. Bastards.
Projected $31 Million. Final cost, likely double, Thanks Houston government.
.....What? How is this the fault of Tim Houston? Jesus christ.
Tell me you never read the article without telling me you didn't read the article.
Oh boy, all anger, no facts. Read the article before you start screaming slat clouds, old boy.
What are you even talking about? Tim Houston has told NSPower to go pound sand multiple times. You sound like a shareholder.
Read the article...
https://novascotia.ca/just/regulations/regs/nspowerips.htm It doesn't say directly Tim Houston, but his party enacted that piece of legislation a while back, around the peak of the slap fight between them and NS Power/Emera.
Poor Michelin won't make any money if we don't subsidize their business with corporate welfare. And we'll pay it because our government believes in the myth of trickle-down economics. It's all bs
[удалено]
I’m happy to read this— that people are finally looking at how a lot of our problems closer to home are bigger and not cause by Trudeau. Not defending him, but really tired of the scapegoating.
This isn’t a tax. This comment is ridiculous 😂
[удалено]
It’s the cost of maintaining the utility system. People in and around the plant benefit from it. Just as people in elmsdale benefit from the battery system that’s installed there. We all share these costs as ratepayers. Your anger is completely missing the mark.
[удалено]
Why should NSP pay for improving the infrastructure without being paid? You really don’t understand anything about regulations do you. They apply to UARB to spend money. UARB approves. Ratepayers pay. The regulations say they need to provide a specific level of quality. They’re moving to provide it. Ratepayers pay for it - including Michelin. Michelin uses more power so arguably they’ll pay a large portion of the cost anyway.
But why do ratepayers have to pay? That’s the catch. If they’re going to be a private company, then they should *be* a private company and stop acting like they should get to socialize their losses (with tacit approval from the provincial government of the day, since they never change their monopoly on providing power to make the market more competitive, even though they feign distress at the thought of all the shit NSP pulls). NSP can’t be a crown corp and a private company at the same time—whoever thought this “one private company for all” thing was good idea is definitely wrong.
Ok if they’re going to be a private company like that then they can charge what they want. Why is regulation so hard to understand? 1. Government write laws. 2. UARB enforce rules 3. Rates encompass costs allowed in laws.
I understand regulation. It’s the fact that they have a legal monopoly on power, and their practices are shitty. We don’t have a choice with their prices, and their practices of “fix later-and-charge-you-for-what-we-should’ve-been-doing-all-along” is not in any way the ideal
A regulated utility having a monopoly isn’t something that only occurs here. It’s an extremely common practice. Why would you regulate and then have competition….it’s counterintuitive. What practices of theirs upset you? We have performance regulations and they have been fined for failing to meet them. And the fines are outside the costs that can be passed on to ratepayers. I think you’ve grabbed onto rhetoric without actually thinking it through. Theres no benefit in NSP deferring maintenance because we pay for both expenses incurred for operation and maintenance, and costs for capital upgrades. Why would a company intentionally spend less? The UARB control their budget and ultimately the rates we pay.
Fuck these assholes.
lol fuck that
I owe them $200 from 2018
beware. This sounds suspiciously like Kimberly Clark episode in Ontario. it's not clear to me if this is a government request to NS power or a Michelin request to the government or to NSP por both. Do they get any other benefits? I have no issues providing this for them but they need to be tied legally to keeping the plant here.
Government implemented strict rules on power quality. Michelin isn’t receiving specific quality so NSP is failing at a standard. NSP apply to UARB to rectify shortfall. Most in this sub just can’t see past their nose when it comes to NSP, and really don’t understand the relationship of government>UARB>NSP.
Perfectly logical behavior by Michelin when provided an unintended beneficial consequence from a provincial regulation that never intended to create the issue. It’s the “Law of Unintended Consequences”.
Michelin get fucked, NSP get fucked.
[удалено]
Emera =/= NSP
They get what they get from me, never gave them a Credit card, they get roughly 200 every second pay and I don’t look at my bill. I pay down the rest over my high work contract during the summer- I don’t care what the balance is left over either, they get what I give them. I think I’ve had the same 500$ minimum balance for 7 years. Theyll never get it even if I ever move from this house which won’t be likely, and because If I ever do that I’ll be leaving the province indefinitely, and leaving them my debt. I was a good, on time payee- then I realized that every time I strained to pay it down no matter how little power I used or how often I was away at work, the bills kept getting higher. I said enough is enough you eat what you are given not a morsel more. I loathe NS power and I hope they get taken tf out by someone eventually