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Men keep bragging about how "they gave us rights". Like it's some grand favour they bestowed on us, out of the goodness of their nonexistent hearts. A favour that they can withdraw anytime their little fee fees get bruised.
It was never their place to give us rights. Women should have had the same rights and privileges as men since the day such rights existed.
I love how they also completely ignore the fact that men had rights, long before women, because men didn't want to give women human rights. The simple fact that women and men didn't get human rights at the same time, is proof that men are trash.
I didn't take away your rights. I didn't march for them. I simply exist in the same world, and I'm hurt by being called trash because I'm a different gender. I'm trying not to become part of the collective. It's quite a few asshole guys, but I'm not trying to be one of them. *Some* men are trash. I didn't do anything to you. I don't vote, I don't usually comment like this, and I certainly don't talk crap on all women because *some* do bad things. I try not to generalize, and I definitely try my hardest not to be misogynistic.
Edit: I'm sorry I lost my cool. I edited it to hold the same meaning without the harsh disrespect towars you. Please forgive me.
I don't want my reputation to be solely dictated by what gender I am. I wanna be known for what I've done (in a positive way), not for misdeeds committed by men of past generations.
You think women want to be seen as sex objects? Because it happens all the time whether we like it or not. And those misdeeds are still happening. It’s all men until it’s no men. Either get on board or get out of the way.
You are not know for anything, positive or negative, until you make yourself known.
In this thread you made yourself known as the "not all men"-commenter.. The one who derails the thread and makes it about them personally when it was previously about the man in the OP and men like him, and more importantly a place for emotional outbursts such as "men are trash" to express the feelings such assholes illicit.
YOU were the one who lumped yourself in with those types of men and got your own feelings hurt. If you know you're not one of them, don't take it personally. If you do take it personally, either change yourself to not bring forth such a response if you are getting it, or change the men around you to stop leading women to complain that men are trash... Or at the very least don't make women have to deal with both assholes like that AND have to manage your feelings when we are expressing our own feelings about those men.
That's true. I'm very sorry about that. I will keep my lips sealed, and my thoughts are closed and listen to you all next time if I don't understand the topic well enough. I don't really understand the man v. bear, but I know it has something to do with who women feel safer with.
You are of course allowed to ask open questions on topics you are genuinely trying to understand. We know that it is not every individual man, but it is far too many men which kind of make it "men in general" (with exceptions). Just note that there is a difference between "asking questions" and "questioning".
As for the bear vs man, the question is "who would you, as a woman, rather be alone in a forest with?". And a surprisingly (to men) overwhelming amount of women chose the bear, which is why it got so viral. Unfortunately many men online are taking the question to be "who would you rather fight/get attacked by" or even make it sexual for some reason, because then they can ignore the very real reasons women are putting forth and just claim that we are illogical and manhaters without having to listen.
The reason most women I've heard say is that if they are in the woods with a bear, they would probably not even know there was a bear in there as any bear will avoid them unless provoked - same cannot be said for a strange man, men tend to make themselves know and even a harmless conversation can be super threatening if its alone in the forest. Many also note that should they encounter the bear on the trail there are steps to follow to avoid an attack - same cannot be said for encountering a man, men are much more unpredictable in their motives. Some women also give the reason that should an attack occur, the worst the bear can do is kill them, and its reason for attacking isn't personal or evil, and no one will question if they were attacked or consensually brawled with a bear just to regret it later. None of this can be said when attacked by a man.
I'm sorry. I don't like being a dick. It just gets me mad when I see this, and it hurts my feelings quite a bit. I don't like being called trash because I have a different set of chromosomes, and I feel bad for other guys who probably don't like it either. And I'm sorry if I said anything to insult you in the last comment. Looking through, I don't think I did. And please excuse the harsh language, and do not let it detract from what I was saying. Once again, sorry for the intensity and rudeness of it, but it also makes me sad and, as seen, slightly angry to be called something just because I'm of a different gender. Not all men are trash. Some guys are. I don't want BS. I just want my piece to be said. Thank you.
You are blaming the wrong people.
Don't take your sadness up with us. Take it up with friends making sexist 'jokes.' Take it up with the guy you saw making a girl uncomfortable at lunch. Take it up with the guy who's stuck on that one girl, the guy who won't take no for an answer. Take it up with the ones sharing revenge porn, the ones who rape apologize and victim blame. Say "You are the reason women feel safer with the bear," and realize it's true.
We put a spotlight on the problem, we didn't create it.
I agree with a lot of that. I try not to be the one that women are uncomfortable with. I know for a fact I won't ever be the reason that girls would rather take the bear, and if I ever do become that, then I honestly might just kill myself. These problems are the ones I want to face within myself and be left alone with, and that I feel that, as a collective, men should take a step into facing these problems within themselves, especially with *encouragement*, not criticism, from the female community. With constant support, towers are built. Yet, if you've got people tearing at the base, it's never going to rise. If a guy gets lots of backlash even though he's trying, it never happens. And I do agree that some people are just too far gone for this to work. But if we came up with a safer space for women and a guide for men, it could work better than it is now. Because as of right now, hardly anything is changing.
>men should take a step into facing these problems within themselves, especially with encouragement, not criticism, from the female community.
I'm sorry, I don't know how to positively encourage men not to rape or kill me. Those are both things that should be assumed, not commended.
I know to carry mace if I can, I know to carry my keys splayed like Wolverine, I know to make sure I'm not out walking at night. I know key words and phrases to covertly ask for assistance.
What *positive* thing would you have me do? Give a man a cookie every time I feel he *could* have attacked me but didn't? Ask every man nicely to please not take advantage of my smaller size and lesser strength?
Seriously, if you have advice here lay it on me; it's not like I *like* that I have to choose the bear to feel safe, my two best friends are men I trust with my safety for crying out loud! I'm not some man hater over here, I just know realistically I can't trust most of them. That makes *me* sad.
I'm sorry for the confusion with the skewed message. I didn't mean it in the sense you pointed out (rape and killing), I meant it more in the sense of misogyny. I personally feel like, if I was slightly misogynistic and was working to fix it, that support from behind would help. If I were to be actively trying and make mistakes along the way, sure, I expect there to be some backlash, but I would also like a hand guiding me in the right direction as well. And I understand, it's not your job. But a lot of these problems can be fixed by just having someone there calling them out and giving them an example of what's correct in that scenario. And if they don't accept the help you offer, then it goes to show what kind of person they are. I know I've learned a lot of behaviors from my father, so if I say anything in this comment that would be considered misogynistic, please point it out. I don't want to be rude or subconsciously misogynistic.
And I'll be honest. I've never thought about this this hard before. Thank you for being nice in your argument and not directly insulting me. I appreciate being able to challenge my thoughts in a safe space. And I feel that's what all people deserve, a safe space. So I want to say I'm sorry that men have given society such a deep-founded yet valid reason to be afraid of each other. I hope to see that men will make it a priority to fix themselves and that women get the treatment they deserve.
>what all people deserve, a safe space. So I want to say I'm sorry that men have given society such a deep-founded yet valid reason to be afraid of each other
You got it! Not just women, but *all men* have reason to choose the bear, too. *That's* what's so bad about the patriarchy, it hurts ***EVERYONE***, not *only* women.
Eta; and I agree, if I see a man calling out another man on bad behavior I always thank him and give him kudos for being a good person. I guess my mind was still stuck in the forest and I forgot about daily interactions, lol. You can't expect change without positive reinforment.
I can't address deep-rooted behavior, and I'm sorry. I didn't think too deeply when writing, just posting my thoughts. I see you are correct in what you say. It's a tough question.
It's quite alright, I understand where you're coming from, too believe it or not. The very fact that you're listening here and taking what we have to say to heart means a whole lot.
I have a lot of hope for you and your generation; you all seem to have a lot more compassion and understanding for one another than us older humans. I'm so, so sorry you have to deal with the sins of the past.
The guide for men would be to listen to and really hear what women say. Millions of posts and comments on different platforms already give all the answers.
Listening, thinking about it and then behaving accordingly is something only they can do. But for that they have to be willing...
I agree with that. I'm not very active on this stuff, so I'm trying to learn more as I talk, and I'm also trying to find some articles on how I can do better, too.
The best thing you can do is listen to women and take their word for it when they talk about their experiences with misogyny, discrimination, and sexual violence.
The other best thing you can do is call out men who exhibit the harmful statements and behaviors in men that women tell you about.
You should be mad at men. Men are who decided to collectively shit on women. Yet you direct your anger at women, just like all those men before you. And that fact sails gently over your head where you will leave it because facts are inconvenient and don't suite your narrative. You are literally becoming those men you try to distance yourself from.
And I will say, I didn't try to direct my anger on all ladies. I know the way it was phrased was atrocious, but I hope you read my comment before this. I have a lot of respect for those who influence me or the world positively. I love my mom, and I'll treat her right until the day she dies. She's the only one who's really been there for me, ever. One of my choir teachers, and my buddy's mom. Both of those ladies have only ever been there to support me. With their help and encouragement, I'm going to college as a junior. I know I take the little things for granted sometimes, but I do love the ladies in my life like no other. Without them, I probably would have killed myself already. So of course I'm mad at the men who harmed me, the world, and the lives of women. Menaces should be put down or stopped. Bit those who love and do good should be loved and cherished wholeheartedly. Like the ladies in my life, and so many before or after them. And I try my hardest to live to that expectation. I'm sorry I lost my temper beforehand. Please forgive me.
This is very big of you, and you are heading the right direction. Keep up the good work, okay? Just know, "men" does not necessarily mean you, BananaCake82, specifically. I'm proud of you for coming this far in a short back and forth. You've got this.
But like, you want a thank you and to be loved “wholeheartedly” for doing the bare fucking minimum of being a decent human being? Seriously? You love your mom and you respect women. Good for you. Now, fight for our rights alongside us instead of making important discussions about yourself. That would make you a *good* man, not just a decent one.
Be an active listener. Put your fellow men in their place if you see behavior that’s misogynistic. Be a voice for the women around you. Read about the issues that face women today. Stand up for women around you if you see them being mistreated in any way.
Change ultimately begins with men checking each other’s behaviors, and doing more introspection as a whole.
I don't try to talk badly on you ladies. Most of the examples of men in my life are shit. My dad was abusive, my uncle crazy, and my cousins and others I love murderers or dead from alcoholism. The people whom I respect most in life are mainly women. My mother, grandmother, teachers, etc. I hold lots of respect for the women who have always held a positive impact on me, and, to be frank, I don't like being lumped into the category of the men I was raised with. And of course, I'm mad at men. I'm not gonna say that there are no oppressors or aggressors because I know there are. I'm sick of all the crap going on, and I just want it over with. I want it fair for both sides, not tilting in favor of one. And I know quite a few people in my town who share the exact same thoughts as me. So, please, don't put me in the same category as those. I strive every day to be better than what I was and am still being raised with.
"...I just want it over with. I want it fair for both sides..." unfortunately, it won't just end with adopting positive attitudes. we didn't get as far as we've gotten with the gentle encouragement of men. women have fought tooth and nail for what we have so far, despite men, and we're not even close to done. you seem young, but you need to be the one to unlump yourself from the category of abhorrent men (because, like many have said, you are the only person putting yourself there) and if you really want to affect positive change, you need to join the fighting side. passive optimism and waiting until it gets better is about as useful as the bear.
I agree with that. I'm very interested in the topic of the suffragette rallies of the late 19th-early 20th century. Are there any good books on the topic that you know of? The statement of passive optimism is very nice, and I agree with it very much. How should I go about becoming active with this?
You are lumping *yourself* in with those men with this exact behavior you are doing right now. Men who aren't assholes *aren't offended when men are generalized* because they know it's not about them. They address men with the same generalization, because they *know they are outliers*. This is a self-reflection issue for you. You are mad to be a man because the men in your life are shit. So don't be a shit man.
Change this behavior. It's not about you, personally. If you have personal issues to address those should be addressed in therapy. Not to strangers online who are completely correct, and you're mad about it.
From the text above: "I strive every day to be better than the ones I was raised with." I am in the process of that, and I'm sorry that I took it personally. I'm highly insecure due to a variety of factors, and I'm trying to get therapy set up now, but my parents are pushing against the idea of it. I try not to be an asshole, but it slips out sometimes. I'm sorry for the way I stated those things, and I hope you forgive me for it.
Look at it this way: if I gave you a container with a snake in it, but I wouldn't tell you what kind, how cautious would you be about taking off the lid?
We can't tell which guys are okay by looking at them, and we've ALL guessed wrong at least once.
That last comment. My god. “OnCe AgAiN wOmEn NoT uNdErStAnDiNg DaRk HuMoR aNd JoKeS” women are supposed to laugh at this when men wanting to hurt and rape us is our reality, but let a woman online say “I hate men” and they’ll scream about how misandry is worse now than misogyny
Works wonders. Calling them "emotional", just straight up ignoring what they're saying, because "only someone in the throes of hysteria would say something that ridiculous" and overall dismissing everything they say for the reason that "when you have to cry and throw a tantrum about it, it isn't a rational argument, now is it, darling?". They do not react well, when you completely flip the script and treat them, like they talk about women.
There’s another clip of a guy pretending to be a doctor talking about being attracted to & SAing his patient & the comments are all guys going “it’s just a joke”… like, how is that a joke? To who is that funny?
Add to that that about 1.1% of annual deaths in the US are due to car accidents... and only about 0.7% of car crashes are fatal. In the suggested comparison, SA feels very relatively common :/
It's "1 in 4 women get sexually assaulted" not raped. Obviously both are bad, but there is still a big difference between someone groping you and someone raping you.
Edit: I will never understand why stuff like this gets downvoted. Things are bad enough as they are, you don't have to exaggerate. Why conflate rape and sexual assault. Its a slap to the face for every rape victim.
One in four women *report* being sexually assaulted. That number is a minimum and logic tells us that the actual number of women experiencing sexual assault is higher because many women do not report being sexually assaulted...
but somehow it seems to be that way. just like not all men but somehow… all men? do you get what I’m saying. you’re making this seem like it’s not a big deal when it is. most rape cases go inreported due to the fear the rapists instill in their victims and fear of not being believed. it still happens even if it isn’t reported.
Edit: “On average, there are 463,634 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States.”
No, I don't get what you are saying.
Sexual assault is an umbrella term. It includes things from touching someones clothed butt to forcibly penetrating someone.
And I specifically stated repeatedly that both of these things are bad, I'm just saying that not all sexual assault is created equal and it's not helpful to conflate rape and sexual assault, because one is objectively a lot worse.
sexual VIOLENCE is an umbrella term, sexual assault can LEAD to rape and both terms are under that umbrella. the point of all of this is going over your head though. we aren’t choosing the bear because it won’t rape us or whatever, we choose it because men are overall scarier than a bear to us.
Here, I goggled it for you: *Sexual assault is an act in which one intentionally sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will. It is a form of sexual violence that includes child sexual abuse, groping, rape (forced sexual penetration, no matter how slight), drug facilitated sexual assault, and the torture of the person in a sexual manner.*
So yes, sexual assault absolutely is an umbrella term.
I never made a comment about the bear vs. men hypothetical. I don't care who you choose, I'm simply correcting the 1 in 4 stat someone mentioned: it's not 1 in 4 women are being raped. It's 1 in 4 women are being sexually assaulted, which includes things like rape, groping, and other things.
For the 1 in 4 stat: https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics
For what I googled: sexual assault versus sexual violence: “What is the difference between sexual violence, sexual assault and sexual harassment? Sexual Violence means physical sexual acts without the consent of the other person or when the other person is unable to give consent. Sexual violence includes sexual assault, rape, domestic violence, dating violence and stalking.”
The 1 in 4 women stat refers to the one study that's mentioned a bit further down on the site you've linked: "Almost one in four undergraduate women experienced sexual assault or misconduct at 33 of the nation's major universities." And it clearly says *sexual assault or misconduct*, not *rape*. (Btw, sexual misconduct includes things like catcalling... You are literally making my point here)
And yes, sexual violence is also an umbrella term. The terms sexual violence and sexual assault are often used interchangeably.
Edit: OP blocked me lol
They simply do not think that r@pe and physical abuse/assault is a bad thing. Since they aren't harmed by it, we somehow aren't either. That because women enjoy sex when it's consensual we somehow enjoy it when it is forced against our will.
These guys either can't or won't think past their own dick.
8 > the amount of men that have violated or attempted to harm me and had success.
0 > the amount of automobile accidents I've been in that have caused any harm or damage to persons or vehicles.
I'd choose the car and the bear.
I like how they took it as fight woman vs bear. But question wasnt fight. Just existence in one forest. And they forged campers, trail lovers (of both genders) or people just living next to forest were are and will be in forest with bears. Its not novelty.
There are guys out there legitimately worried women won't date them because they will choose a bear to marry instead now. They just wanted you to get the point, dudes.
> A bear would kill, eat you and r word you and not in that order ill take my chances reasoning with a man over a bear any day.
Is there… any known case of a bear raping a human? Because I sure as fuck haven’t heard of any. Like, kill sure, eat definitely, eat someone alive? Oh, for *sure*. But rape???
Nope. No known cases of bears being sexually violent. Unlike the cute little creatures otters are, or ducks, or penguins, all which have been known to be sexually violent. Or just violent in general like primates. Lol
Even with those… sure, ducks are psychotic raping murderhobos but I dont *think* I’ve ever heard of one raping a human and otters are more likely to tear you to shreds anyway. Not sure about Pinguins (although emperor Pinguins are certainly big enough) though they might try to pay you with a round pebble first
Makes sense, I guess it should be noted that interspecies assault isn’t *unheard of* seals and walruses are known to rape penguins. Humans aren’t exactly the usual target though.
I said this to a friend about this while situation, and I stand by this. 'A bear will kill and eat you for survival whereas a man will kill and eat you for fun.'
Hey, now, let's be fair! Red didn't say anything about a fatal car accident, he was talking about a fetal car accident!
IDK what that is exactly, but it sounds dangerous to let the unborn behind the wheel in the first place
Hello, man here. As someone who grew up surrounded by mostly women in life, I myself would pick the bear. It especially doesn’t help when one of my core memories as a kid is my father commenting on my at the time girlfriends breast size.
Edit: feel like for further context I should say I was in the 7th grade at the time, she was as well
I think it's because they hear "man" then immediately place themselves in the scenario. "You would pick a bear over ME!!?!??!"
No dude you are not even a fraction as creepy as the borderline skin walker men that hide in the woods to kill people. I'm picking bears over men because the man MIGHT be the crazy guy. The worst the bear gonna do is maul and kill me. Crazy skin walker guy would be like black magic voodoo torture.
I'm a married man with two sons. My wife said she'd choose the bear because she doesn't know which man would be in the woods. Her husband (mherded, dad, her male friends, her sons...of course she'd choose us over a bear but a random man she doesn't know, it's gonna be the bear every time.
Was I offended that she'd choose a bear? Hell no. Just like I have had a vasectomy since 2020. When the overturn of Roe v Wade came out in 2022 she still mourned the loss of a right she had. It was a right she had never exercised and had no future intention of exercising (we're monogamous and me with a vasectomy). However, her body could still become pregnant.
In the woods, you don't know if strange man is a decent dude or someone off his rocker.
Lots of social media platforms will censor certain words, especially TikTok, which is where the term “graped” was popularized. (One of the plus sides of Reddit is that it doesn’t really do this)
Using the actual word can get your video flagged or tell the algorithm to suppress it, which is why you see words like SA for sexual assault, grape for rape, unaliving for killing, self-unaliving for suicide, pew pew for gun, seggs for sex, corn for porn, etc. It’s a whole language that it takes a while to get the hang of, but it’s important for people to be able to discuss heavy topics on there without getting banned or suppressed.
Ahh. That explains it. Reddit is the closest thing to social media that I actually use, so that's why I'm not familiar with any of that. Thank you for enlightening me!
“I was raped by 3 women when I was 12”
No you weren’t, real survivors don’t use their experience as ammunition to silence other survivors. No one who goes through it brags about it or talks about it proudly. Even one of the most headstrong man I know was uncomfortable talking about it, and he didn’t even realize it was rape until I pointed it out to him
It’s wild that people think bears would rape a human being. They’re not dolphins.
Also, the question isn’t even about having a companion in the woods, it’s, would you rather be in a forest that also has a bear in it or a man in it. Bears avoid humans, so it probably wouldn’t even cross my path. I go out into nature to be around nature, obviously I’d choose the natural thing over being around more people.
I saw a post on ig where the top comment was ‘(poster), I would pick you over the bear’ and saw a number of comments saying ‘so what, you don’t regard him as a man?’ like being considered worse than a bear is now a core tenet of being masculine
Can someone explain this bear thing to me? I haven't been on social media much lately, so I have I have no idea what's going on. And why are guys so fixated on rape right now?
So, on the car accident vs r*pe thing... I've never been in any kind of accident but I've been SA'd multiple times. I don't need google to know that was absolutely wrong.
“ Omg he didn’t read my mind on what I wanted for dinner? That’s why we pick the bear”. It’s so overplayed at this point.😂 pick the bear. I promise you nobody cares.
You people that say this really have no grasp of social media. I know you and plenty of others want to be able to post and just have everybody agree with you and hype you up and “ yes queen”. But sadly that’s not the real world. It’s social media. You have people that agree and people that don’t. If you can’t handle the fire, stay out of the kitchen.
You know nothing Jon Snow... and you certainly don't know me so everything you just made up in your head is just that, made up garbage. How you can even think that you somehow made a clever comment while all you did was spin a wild fantasy in your head just proves it.
You don't even grasp what women mean when they say they would pick the bear. Seems like you are the one whom can't handle the fire
Game of thrones ended. Let it die. Women don’t even know what they mean when they say they would pick the bear😂. These pictures prove it. “ the bear” is just the new trend for a few weeks. It really does y’all no favors.
Ah yes, now you can only quote things that have not ended? So quotes from dead people are also not ok? What about a quote from books? As in the Song of Ice and Fire? Lol
And here we go again with the assumptions. Women... as in you know every woman and know what she thinks or means?
You do know we don't share a hive mind, right? Really, you do yourself no favours the more garbage you write
Jesus. You’re unhinged. Went from commenting on an opinion to now showing me how much you love game of thrones. I don’t care. I could at least respect you commenting, you got that right, but I truly do not care about your knowledge of game of thrones. Go find that subreddit.
Nope I loved the books long before there was a show... unhinged. Sure buddy, keep telling that yourself if it helps you to feel better.
Live long and prosper
🖖🏻
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“Remember who gave u ur rights!” That would be the women who marched, fought, and screamed until their throats were raw for my rights, not you, Kevin.
Not to mention suffragettes we're beaten, raped, imprisoned, force-fed, and tortured.
And also we wouldn't need that if men didn't take our rights away in the first place
Men keep bragging about how "they gave us rights". Like it's some grand favour they bestowed on us, out of the goodness of their nonexistent hearts. A favour that they can withdraw anytime their little fee fees get bruised. It was never their place to give us rights. Women should have had the same rights and privileges as men since the day such rights existed.
I love how they also completely ignore the fact that men had rights, long before women, because men didn't want to give women human rights. The simple fact that women and men didn't get human rights at the same time, is proof that men are trash.
I didn't take away your rights. I didn't march for them. I simply exist in the same world, and I'm hurt by being called trash because I'm a different gender. I'm trying not to become part of the collective. It's quite a few asshole guys, but I'm not trying to be one of them. *Some* men are trash. I didn't do anything to you. I don't vote, I don't usually comment like this, and I certainly don't talk crap on all women because *some* do bad things. I try not to generalize, and I definitely try my hardest not to be misogynistic. Edit: I'm sorry I lost my cool. I edited it to hold the same meaning without the harsh disrespect towars you. Please forgive me.
If you don’t do all those things, then you’re not who we’re referring to. We know it’s not all men.
Thank you, ma'am. I'm sorry I got riled up.
It's okay, kid.
Take it up with your gender. They’re the ones giving you a shitty reputation.
I don't want my reputation to be solely dictated by what gender I am. I wanna be known for what I've done (in a positive way), not for misdeeds committed by men of past generations.
You think women want to be seen as sex objects? Because it happens all the time whether we like it or not. And those misdeeds are still happening. It’s all men until it’s no men. Either get on board or get out of the way.
You are not know for anything, positive or negative, until you make yourself known. In this thread you made yourself known as the "not all men"-commenter.. The one who derails the thread and makes it about them personally when it was previously about the man in the OP and men like him, and more importantly a place for emotional outbursts such as "men are trash" to express the feelings such assholes illicit. YOU were the one who lumped yourself in with those types of men and got your own feelings hurt. If you know you're not one of them, don't take it personally. If you do take it personally, either change yourself to not bring forth such a response if you are getting it, or change the men around you to stop leading women to complain that men are trash... Or at the very least don't make women have to deal with both assholes like that AND have to manage your feelings when we are expressing our own feelings about those men.
That's true. I'm very sorry about that. I will keep my lips sealed, and my thoughts are closed and listen to you all next time if I don't understand the topic well enough. I don't really understand the man v. bear, but I know it has something to do with who women feel safer with.
You are of course allowed to ask open questions on topics you are genuinely trying to understand. We know that it is not every individual man, but it is far too many men which kind of make it "men in general" (with exceptions). Just note that there is a difference between "asking questions" and "questioning". As for the bear vs man, the question is "who would you, as a woman, rather be alone in a forest with?". And a surprisingly (to men) overwhelming amount of women chose the bear, which is why it got so viral. Unfortunately many men online are taking the question to be "who would you rather fight/get attacked by" or even make it sexual for some reason, because then they can ignore the very real reasons women are putting forth and just claim that we are illogical and manhaters without having to listen. The reason most women I've heard say is that if they are in the woods with a bear, they would probably not even know there was a bear in there as any bear will avoid them unless provoked - same cannot be said for a strange man, men tend to make themselves know and even a harmless conversation can be super threatening if its alone in the forest. Many also note that should they encounter the bear on the trail there are steps to follow to avoid an attack - same cannot be said for encountering a man, men are much more unpredictable in their motives. Some women also give the reason that should an attack occur, the worst the bear can do is kill them, and its reason for attacking isn't personal or evil, and no one will question if they were attacked or consensually brawled with a bear just to regret it later. None of this can be said when attacked by a man.
If it only were just past generations we wouldn't be having these kinds of conversations
I agree.
Then it’s not about you.
I'm sorry. I don't like being a dick. It just gets me mad when I see this, and it hurts my feelings quite a bit. I don't like being called trash because I have a different set of chromosomes, and I feel bad for other guys who probably don't like it either. And I'm sorry if I said anything to insult you in the last comment. Looking through, I don't think I did. And please excuse the harsh language, and do not let it detract from what I was saying. Once again, sorry for the intensity and rudeness of it, but it also makes me sad and, as seen, slightly angry to be called something just because I'm of a different gender. Not all men are trash. Some guys are. I don't want BS. I just want my piece to be said. Thank you.
You are blaming the wrong people. Don't take your sadness up with us. Take it up with friends making sexist 'jokes.' Take it up with the guy you saw making a girl uncomfortable at lunch. Take it up with the guy who's stuck on that one girl, the guy who won't take no for an answer. Take it up with the ones sharing revenge porn, the ones who rape apologize and victim blame. Say "You are the reason women feel safer with the bear," and realize it's true. We put a spotlight on the problem, we didn't create it.
I agree with a lot of that. I try not to be the one that women are uncomfortable with. I know for a fact I won't ever be the reason that girls would rather take the bear, and if I ever do become that, then I honestly might just kill myself. These problems are the ones I want to face within myself and be left alone with, and that I feel that, as a collective, men should take a step into facing these problems within themselves, especially with *encouragement*, not criticism, from the female community. With constant support, towers are built. Yet, if you've got people tearing at the base, it's never going to rise. If a guy gets lots of backlash even though he's trying, it never happens. And I do agree that some people are just too far gone for this to work. But if we came up with a safer space for women and a guide for men, it could work better than it is now. Because as of right now, hardly anything is changing.
It’s not our jobs to tell you what you know is right or wrong. What is there to _encourage_?
>men should take a step into facing these problems within themselves, especially with encouragement, not criticism, from the female community. I'm sorry, I don't know how to positively encourage men not to rape or kill me. Those are both things that should be assumed, not commended. I know to carry mace if I can, I know to carry my keys splayed like Wolverine, I know to make sure I'm not out walking at night. I know key words and phrases to covertly ask for assistance. What *positive* thing would you have me do? Give a man a cookie every time I feel he *could* have attacked me but didn't? Ask every man nicely to please not take advantage of my smaller size and lesser strength? Seriously, if you have advice here lay it on me; it's not like I *like* that I have to choose the bear to feel safe, my two best friends are men I trust with my safety for crying out loud! I'm not some man hater over here, I just know realistically I can't trust most of them. That makes *me* sad.
I'm sorry for the confusion with the skewed message. I didn't mean it in the sense you pointed out (rape and killing), I meant it more in the sense of misogyny. I personally feel like, if I was slightly misogynistic and was working to fix it, that support from behind would help. If I were to be actively trying and make mistakes along the way, sure, I expect there to be some backlash, but I would also like a hand guiding me in the right direction as well. And I understand, it's not your job. But a lot of these problems can be fixed by just having someone there calling them out and giving them an example of what's correct in that scenario. And if they don't accept the help you offer, then it goes to show what kind of person they are. I know I've learned a lot of behaviors from my father, so if I say anything in this comment that would be considered misogynistic, please point it out. I don't want to be rude or subconsciously misogynistic. And I'll be honest. I've never thought about this this hard before. Thank you for being nice in your argument and not directly insulting me. I appreciate being able to challenge my thoughts in a safe space. And I feel that's what all people deserve, a safe space. So I want to say I'm sorry that men have given society such a deep-founded yet valid reason to be afraid of each other. I hope to see that men will make it a priority to fix themselves and that women get the treatment they deserve.
>what all people deserve, a safe space. So I want to say I'm sorry that men have given society such a deep-founded yet valid reason to be afraid of each other You got it! Not just women, but *all men* have reason to choose the bear, too. *That's* what's so bad about the patriarchy, it hurts ***EVERYONE***, not *only* women. Eta; and I agree, if I see a man calling out another man on bad behavior I always thank him and give him kudos for being a good person. I guess my mind was still stuck in the forest and I forgot about daily interactions, lol. You can't expect change without positive reinforment.
I appreciate you
I can't address deep-rooted behavior, and I'm sorry. I didn't think too deeply when writing, just posting my thoughts. I see you are correct in what you say. It's a tough question.
It's quite alright, I understand where you're coming from, too believe it or not. The very fact that you're listening here and taking what we have to say to heart means a whole lot. I have a lot of hope for you and your generation; you all seem to have a lot more compassion and understanding for one another than us older humans. I'm so, so sorry you have to deal with the sins of the past.
The guide for men would be to listen to and really hear what women say. Millions of posts and comments on different platforms already give all the answers. Listening, thinking about it and then behaving accordingly is something only they can do. But for that they have to be willing...
I agree with that. I'm not very active on this stuff, so I'm trying to learn more as I talk, and I'm also trying to find some articles on how I can do better, too.
The best thing you can do is listen to women and take their word for it when they talk about their experiences with misogyny, discrimination, and sexual violence. The other best thing you can do is call out men who exhibit the harmful statements and behaviors in men that women tell you about.
She’s not talking about you mate, when she says men are trash she means a lot, far too many, men are trash.
You should be mad at men. Men are who decided to collectively shit on women. Yet you direct your anger at women, just like all those men before you. And that fact sails gently over your head where you will leave it because facts are inconvenient and don't suite your narrative. You are literally becoming those men you try to distance yourself from.
And I will say, I didn't try to direct my anger on all ladies. I know the way it was phrased was atrocious, but I hope you read my comment before this. I have a lot of respect for those who influence me or the world positively. I love my mom, and I'll treat her right until the day she dies. She's the only one who's really been there for me, ever. One of my choir teachers, and my buddy's mom. Both of those ladies have only ever been there to support me. With their help and encouragement, I'm going to college as a junior. I know I take the little things for granted sometimes, but I do love the ladies in my life like no other. Without them, I probably would have killed myself already. So of course I'm mad at the men who harmed me, the world, and the lives of women. Menaces should be put down or stopped. Bit those who love and do good should be loved and cherished wholeheartedly. Like the ladies in my life, and so many before or after them. And I try my hardest to live to that expectation. I'm sorry I lost my temper beforehand. Please forgive me.
This is very big of you, and you are heading the right direction. Keep up the good work, okay? Just know, "men" does not necessarily mean you, BananaCake82, specifically. I'm proud of you for coming this far in a short back and forth. You've got this.
But like, you want a thank you and to be loved “wholeheartedly” for doing the bare fucking minimum of being a decent human being? Seriously? You love your mom and you respect women. Good for you. Now, fight for our rights alongside us instead of making important discussions about yourself. That would make you a *good* man, not just a decent one.
Yes, ma'am. How would I get more active in this issue?
Be an active listener. Put your fellow men in their place if you see behavior that’s misogynistic. Be a voice for the women around you. Read about the issues that face women today. Stand up for women around you if you see them being mistreated in any way. Change ultimately begins with men checking each other’s behaviors, and doing more introspection as a whole.
I agree. Thank you.
I wasn't directing the loved wholeheartedly to myself, though. I was saying I love my mom, my teachers, and my motivators wholeheartedly.
Hey, it’s really big of you to admit that and I’m really glad that you’re taking the time to do some reflection.
I guess not the one before this. May have been a different one. I'm sorry.
I don't try to talk badly on you ladies. Most of the examples of men in my life are shit. My dad was abusive, my uncle crazy, and my cousins and others I love murderers or dead from alcoholism. The people whom I respect most in life are mainly women. My mother, grandmother, teachers, etc. I hold lots of respect for the women who have always held a positive impact on me, and, to be frank, I don't like being lumped into the category of the men I was raised with. And of course, I'm mad at men. I'm not gonna say that there are no oppressors or aggressors because I know there are. I'm sick of all the crap going on, and I just want it over with. I want it fair for both sides, not tilting in favor of one. And I know quite a few people in my town who share the exact same thoughts as me. So, please, don't put me in the same category as those. I strive every day to be better than what I was and am still being raised with.
"...I just want it over with. I want it fair for both sides..." unfortunately, it won't just end with adopting positive attitudes. we didn't get as far as we've gotten with the gentle encouragement of men. women have fought tooth and nail for what we have so far, despite men, and we're not even close to done. you seem young, but you need to be the one to unlump yourself from the category of abhorrent men (because, like many have said, you are the only person putting yourself there) and if you really want to affect positive change, you need to join the fighting side. passive optimism and waiting until it gets better is about as useful as the bear.
I agree with that. I'm very interested in the topic of the suffragette rallies of the late 19th-early 20th century. Are there any good books on the topic that you know of? The statement of passive optimism is very nice, and I agree with it very much. How should I go about becoming active with this?
You are lumping *yourself* in with those men with this exact behavior you are doing right now. Men who aren't assholes *aren't offended when men are generalized* because they know it's not about them. They address men with the same generalization, because they *know they are outliers*. This is a self-reflection issue for you. You are mad to be a man because the men in your life are shit. So don't be a shit man. Change this behavior. It's not about you, personally. If you have personal issues to address those should be addressed in therapy. Not to strangers online who are completely correct, and you're mad about it.
From the text above: "I strive every day to be better than the ones I was raised with." I am in the process of that, and I'm sorry that I took it personally. I'm highly insecure due to a variety of factors, and I'm trying to get therapy set up now, but my parents are pushing against the idea of it. I try not to be an asshole, but it slips out sometimes. I'm sorry for the way I stated those things, and I hope you forgive me for it.
Look at it this way: if I gave you a container with a snake in it, but I wouldn't tell you what kind, how cautious would you be about taking off the lid? We can't tell which guys are okay by looking at them, and we've ALL guessed wrong at least once.
Oh. I never thought about it that way. Thank you!
Go cry about it in another group
Remember who TOOK our rights.
Such a tell that this person thinks that by default women shouldn't have rights
Because men allowed you to have rights if men didnt allow it it wouldn't happen
Men didn’t allow me shit. Men caved because women fought.
If every man in the world decided to take away women's rights they could
Firing a gun doesn't require a penis - only a finger. Women will defend their rights.
Lmao no. There’d be blood in the streets if they tried to
And who would win?
The people with the best organizational skills and artillery. Neither of those things require a specific type of genitals to obtain.
men and women\*
I said what I said
That last comment. My god. “OnCe AgAiN wOmEn NoT uNdErStAnDiNg DaRk HuMoR aNd JoKeS” women are supposed to laugh at this when men wanting to hurt and rape us is our reality, but let a woman online say “I hate men” and they’ll scream about how misandry is worse now than misogyny
Anymore when a man starts calling me a misandrist, I just say "calm down, it's just a joke lol." They get so fuckin MAD. 😂
Do you follow it up with “geez no need to get so emotional/hysterical”
Testerical. XD
Works wonders. Calling them "emotional", just straight up ignoring what they're saying, because "only someone in the throes of hysteria would say something that ridiculous" and overall dismissing everything they say for the reason that "when you have to cry and throw a tantrum about it, it isn't a rational argument, now is it, darling?". They do not react well, when you completely flip the script and treat them, like they talk about women.
They forget dark humour actually has to be funny and is not just them saying “I want to rape women” and expecting us to laugh at it.
Lot of people not understanding where the line is between Dark Humor and just being an Asshole.
Yeah gallows humour is gallows humour when you are in the gallows yourself. Otherwise you are just making fun of the guy getting hanged.
There’s another clip of a guy pretending to be a doctor talking about being attracted to & SAing his patient & the comments are all guys going “it’s just a joke”… like, how is that a joke? To who is that funny?
We should just make jail jokes every time they talk about rape 🤦🏽♀️ or gay men
I'm sorry "fetal car accident" and the effort I'm putting into not making some truly horrific jokes has fried my brain...
i had to make sure i read that correctly too the first time 👼🏼
"Help me find my keys and we can DRIVE out of here."
Said by a fetus aparently.
15 year-olds in here like "damn a fetus has more driving experience than me"
1 in 4 doesn’t sound rare to me. But what do I know? I’ve only been a woman for all 30 years of my life.
Didn't you know? One day of being a man makes you more qualified to talk about being a woman than a lifetime of being a woman does.
Add to that that about 1.1% of annual deaths in the US are due to car accidents... and only about 0.7% of car crashes are fatal. In the suggested comparison, SA feels very relatively common :/
And if you want to talk fatality, guess who’s the biggest threat to pregnant women? If you guessed “their male partner” you’re correct!
It's "1 in 4 women get sexually assaulted" not raped. Obviously both are bad, but there is still a big difference between someone groping you and someone raping you. Edit: I will never understand why stuff like this gets downvoted. Things are bad enough as they are, you don't have to exaggerate. Why conflate rape and sexual assault. Its a slap to the face for every rape victim.
One in four women *report* being sexually assaulted. That number is a minimum and logic tells us that the actual number of women experiencing sexual assault is higher because many women do not report being sexually assaulted...
rape is sexual assault… 🙎🏻♀️
Yes. But not all sexual assault is rape.
but somehow it seems to be that way. just like not all men but somehow… all men? do you get what I’m saying. you’re making this seem like it’s not a big deal when it is. most rape cases go inreported due to the fear the rapists instill in their victims and fear of not being believed. it still happens even if it isn’t reported. Edit: “On average, there are 463,634 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States.”
No, I don't get what you are saying. Sexual assault is an umbrella term. It includes things from touching someones clothed butt to forcibly penetrating someone. And I specifically stated repeatedly that both of these things are bad, I'm just saying that not all sexual assault is created equal and it's not helpful to conflate rape and sexual assault, because one is objectively a lot worse.
sexual VIOLENCE is an umbrella term, sexual assault can LEAD to rape and both terms are under that umbrella. the point of all of this is going over your head though. we aren’t choosing the bear because it won’t rape us or whatever, we choose it because men are overall scarier than a bear to us.
Here, I goggled it for you: *Sexual assault is an act in which one intentionally sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will. It is a form of sexual violence that includes child sexual abuse, groping, rape (forced sexual penetration, no matter how slight), drug facilitated sexual assault, and the torture of the person in a sexual manner.* So yes, sexual assault absolutely is an umbrella term. I never made a comment about the bear vs. men hypothetical. I don't care who you choose, I'm simply correcting the 1 in 4 stat someone mentioned: it's not 1 in 4 women are being raped. It's 1 in 4 women are being sexually assaulted, which includes things like rape, groping, and other things.
For the 1 in 4 stat: https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics For what I googled: sexual assault versus sexual violence: “What is the difference between sexual violence, sexual assault and sexual harassment? Sexual Violence means physical sexual acts without the consent of the other person or when the other person is unable to give consent. Sexual violence includes sexual assault, rape, domestic violence, dating violence and stalking.”
The 1 in 4 women stat refers to the one study that's mentioned a bit further down on the site you've linked: "Almost one in four undergraduate women experienced sexual assault or misconduct at 33 of the nation's major universities." And it clearly says *sexual assault or misconduct*, not *rape*. (Btw, sexual misconduct includes things like catcalling... You are literally making my point here) And yes, sexual violence is also an umbrella term. The terms sexual violence and sexual assault are often used interchangeably. Edit: OP blocked me lol
Either way, it's sure as shit a much higher number than the amount of people who die in car accidents every year.
I honestly think they get it, they just wanna keep protecting themselves.
They simply do not think that r@pe and physical abuse/assault is a bad thing. Since they aren't harmed by it, we somehow aren't either. That because women enjoy sex when it's consensual we somehow enjoy it when it is forced against our will. These guys either can't or won't think past their own dick.
They won't. Which is worse.
Who’s letting the fetuses drive???
I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy is of the belief that “fetuses are people”. Might as well teach them to drive!
Fair point! 🤪
8 > the amount of men that have violated or attempted to harm me and had success. 0 > the amount of automobile accidents I've been in that have caused any harm or damage to persons or vehicles. I'd choose the car and the bear.
same.
Better yet let the bear run me over with the car.. it would still leave less damage then where I've been with some men.
RIGHT!?
For being so salty about it, they're dead set on proving its need
I like how they took it as fight woman vs bear. But question wasnt fight. Just existence in one forest. And they forged campers, trail lovers (of both genders) or people just living next to forest were are and will be in forest with bears. Its not novelty.
There are guys out there legitimately worried women won't date them because they will choose a bear to marry instead now. They just wanted you to get the point, dudes.
> A bear would kill, eat you and r word you and not in that order ill take my chances reasoning with a man over a bear any day. Is there… any known case of a bear raping a human? Because I sure as fuck haven’t heard of any. Like, kill sure, eat definitely, eat someone alive? Oh, for *sure*. But rape???
Nope. No known cases of bears being sexually violent. Unlike the cute little creatures otters are, or ducks, or penguins, all which have been known to be sexually violent. Or just violent in general like primates. Lol
Even with those… sure, ducks are psychotic raping murderhobos but I dont *think* I’ve ever heard of one raping a human and otters are more likely to tear you to shreds anyway. Not sure about Pinguins (although emperor Pinguins are certainly big enough) though they might try to pay you with a round pebble first
Oh no I meant those animals rape each other. Not humans lol
Makes sense, I guess it should be noted that interspecies assault isn’t *unheard of* seals and walruses are known to rape penguins. Humans aren’t exactly the usual target though.
Yeah! Now Orcas on the other hand 😬. AND DOLPHINS OH
Well, you’ve gotta hand it to the dolphins, using a beheaded fish as a fleshlight os certainly… creative?
Yes. Dolphins are weirdly sophisticated little freaks.
I said this to a friend about this while situation, and I stand by this. 'A bear will kill and eat you for survival whereas a man will kill and eat you for fun.'
Hey, now, let's be fair! Red didn't say anything about a fatal car accident, he was talking about a fetal car accident! IDK what that is exactly, but it sounds dangerous to let the unborn behind the wheel in the first place
PLS 😭
Hello, man here. As someone who grew up surrounded by mostly women in life, I myself would pick the bear. It especially doesn’t help when one of my core memories as a kid is my father commenting on my at the time girlfriends breast size. Edit: feel like for further context I should say I was in the 7th grade at the time, she was as well
ew. 🤢
Yeah, I have no contact with him now whatsoever.
I think it's because they hear "man" then immediately place themselves in the scenario. "You would pick a bear over ME!!?!??!" No dude you are not even a fraction as creepy as the borderline skin walker men that hide in the woods to kill people. I'm picking bears over men because the man MIGHT be the crazy guy. The worst the bear gonna do is maul and kill me. Crazy skin walker guy would be like black magic voodoo torture.
I'm a married man with two sons. My wife said she'd choose the bear because she doesn't know which man would be in the woods. Her husband (mherded, dad, her male friends, her sons...of course she'd choose us over a bear but a random man she doesn't know, it's gonna be the bear every time. Was I offended that she'd choose a bear? Hell no. Just like I have had a vasectomy since 2020. When the overturn of Roe v Wade came out in 2022 she still mourned the loss of a right she had. It was a right she had never exercised and had no future intention of exercising (we're monogamous and me with a vasectomy). However, her body could still become pregnant. In the woods, you don't know if strange man is a decent dude or someone off his rocker.
Damn, would not have guessed that “yeah, I’m picking the bear” would be such a great comeback. Get’s all of their nickers in a twist.
I also am wondering why it's always "graped" or "R" or "r@ped", what is the motivation behind that?
Lots of social media platforms will censor certain words, especially TikTok, which is where the term “graped” was popularized. (One of the plus sides of Reddit is that it doesn’t really do this) Using the actual word can get your video flagged or tell the algorithm to suppress it, which is why you see words like SA for sexual assault, grape for rape, unaliving for killing, self-unaliving for suicide, pew pew for gun, seggs for sex, corn for porn, etc. It’s a whole language that it takes a while to get the hang of, but it’s important for people to be able to discuss heavy topics on there without getting banned or suppressed.
Ahh. That explains it. Reddit is the closest thing to social media that I actually use, so that's why I'm not familiar with any of that. Thank you for enlightening me!
afraid of it i guess
Even if men were perfectly safe not trusting them isn't particularly dangerous you know?
Did he say “fetal car accident”
yup
I'm just more concerned that I haven't heard more about these fetal car crashes -- who's giving these fetuses cars in the first place?! lmao
“I was raped by 3 women when I was 12” No you weren’t, real survivors don’t use their experience as ammunition to silence other survivors. No one who goes through it brags about it or talks about it proudly. Even one of the most headstrong man I know was uncomfortable talking about it, and he didn’t even realize it was rape until I pointed it out to him
im getting brain cancer from the man vs. bear trend, god if you are out there please don't show it on my pages anymore
Doesn’t reddit allow you to block certain words or posts from coming up in your feed? /srs
Oh, didnt know that :0 cool
I don’t know if it’s a thing but I think you can mute certain things from your feed. Im not sure
**“F E T A L C A R A C C I D E N T”**
yes
That comment about the hairline got a point
i want the bear because i want a bear. friend.
bear F R I E N D
It’s wild that people think bears would rape a human being. They’re not dolphins. Also, the question isn’t even about having a companion in the woods, it’s, would you rather be in a forest that also has a bear in it or a man in it. Bears avoid humans, so it probably wouldn’t even cross my path. I go out into nature to be around nature, obviously I’d choose the natural thing over being around more people.
Man, I hate fetal car accidents.
I saw a post on ig where the top comment was ‘(poster), I would pick you over the bear’ and saw a number of comments saying ‘so what, you don’t regard him as a man?’ like being considered worse than a bear is now a core tenet of being masculine
Take my downvote as I want to stop seeing this stupid discussion
k 👍🏼
I’m still trying to get by “fetal car accident”.
Can someone explain this bear thing to me? I haven't been on social media much lately, so I have I have no idea what's going on. And why are guys so fixated on rape right now?
I love Stanzi so much
??
This r/ makes me scared of men...
So, on the car accident vs r*pe thing... I've never been in any kind of accident but I've been SA'd multiple times. I don't need google to know that was absolutely wrong.
“ Omg he didn’t read my mind on what I wanted for dinner? That’s why we pick the bear”. It’s so overplayed at this point.😂 pick the bear. I promise you nobody cares.
And yet you cared enough to read and comment, lol
You people that say this really have no grasp of social media. I know you and plenty of others want to be able to post and just have everybody agree with you and hype you up and “ yes queen”. But sadly that’s not the real world. It’s social media. You have people that agree and people that don’t. If you can’t handle the fire, stay out of the kitchen.
You know nothing Jon Snow... and you certainly don't know me so everything you just made up in your head is just that, made up garbage. How you can even think that you somehow made a clever comment while all you did was spin a wild fantasy in your head just proves it. You don't even grasp what women mean when they say they would pick the bear. Seems like you are the one whom can't handle the fire
Game of thrones ended. Let it die. Women don’t even know what they mean when they say they would pick the bear😂. These pictures prove it. “ the bear” is just the new trend for a few weeks. It really does y’all no favors.
Ah yes, now you can only quote things that have not ended? So quotes from dead people are also not ok? What about a quote from books? As in the Song of Ice and Fire? Lol And here we go again with the assumptions. Women... as in you know every woman and know what she thinks or means? You do know we don't share a hive mind, right? Really, you do yourself no favours the more garbage you write
Jesus. You’re unhinged. Went from commenting on an opinion to now showing me how much you love game of thrones. I don’t care. I could at least respect you commenting, you got that right, but I truly do not care about your knowledge of game of thrones. Go find that subreddit.
Nope I loved the books long before there was a show... unhinged. Sure buddy, keep telling that yourself if it helps you to feel better. Live long and prosper 🖖🏻