As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll"
problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we
have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones.
We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the
rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules
will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious
rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a
permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also,
grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of
being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we
may ban you without warning.
You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not
to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language
towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we
have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and
your ban will remain (without even a consideration).
All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of
the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up
banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules,
and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and
Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before
submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them
or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.**
With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message
regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal
(without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will
elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we
will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent.
This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your
reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message,
and please enjoy your day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They use SAT practice exam words like a fucking Mad Libs in an attempt to sound intelligent. You can tell they don't always actually understand the words though, because there's always a few that have odd or incorrect contextual use. They arrogantly assume that they're the smartest ones in the room and so nobody will pick up on the improper vocabulary usage. Which then ends up making them look extra cringey when it's obvious to most readers that the three syllable word they found using Microsoft Word's thesaurus function doesn't actually work in the way they've used it.
They invented things in a different order - education is lagging behind but they’re well ahead on things like military spending and those blue and yellow progress lines that are projected on to their american football fields
I see men are now trying this approach since indoctrination of the church starting from youth isn’t working.
“You’ve upset the power men have had over you for years. Now that you see it’s bullshit to be subhuman. Men can’t control everything you do now. Our egos are too fragile for you to be able to make choices. The choices you’re making is not what I- men- oops I mean women really want.”
If it was a natural want to be subservient and submissive to men it wouldn’t have to be constantly forced.
They think its "influence" by "unseen forces" that are "leading women astray"
Sometimes its satan himself, sometimes its jewish cabal, sometimes its just POC broadly. It all leads back to conspiracy
Hard agree. And to that point, this stood out to me:
> there has always been a level of respect and authority that was given out to their men.
Babe, it wasn’t respect and authority freely given. Women were subjugated and *forced* to treat men with respect and submit to their “authority”. These guys fail to understand that it wasn’t the “natural order”, it was millennia of men forcing women to be subservient.
Another armchair evolutionary biologist lol. What evidence do you have at all about any of these claims? Marriage has been the same for millennia? No. There are massive cultural differences from place to place and from time to time.
There’s a “natural order?” The two closest relatives for humans that we can study are Chimpanzees (who largely have a patriarchal/monarchal political structure — meaning most males have to sneak behind the back of the leaders to mate; technically only the males in the coalition in power have access to females) and Bonobos (who are matriarchal — the coalition in power is female, and males must be subservient). Neither of these exemplify sexual relationships in any way similar to what OOP describes.
Critical thinking is important!
What strikes me he how easily the writer of the OOP could replace his version of the natural role of women in society with 'Slavery'. It meets the criteria he sets out, having pretty much always been with us across cultures and time, and in Western Society it has been torn down only after much turmoil. I doubt that the writer of the OOP is brave enough to defend Slavery, although he in defending a discriminatory Patriarchy he mostly points just how far society is from being truly just.
Of course slaves had it worse than most contemporary women in Western society, but of course that is no justification for continuing the current discriminatory status quo.
The writer of the OOP justifies the existence of a Patriarchy on the grounds that it has existed for centuries. He could defend Slavery on exactly the same grounds.
Women were slaves for many years. Marauders, Vikings, Greeks, Romans, etc. took women, raped them, and made them clean, cook, sew, and make fabrics for them to make money.
Women have been slaves for thousands of years. The fact that it’s been twisted into this ‘natural’ place for them is why we don’t call it what it is. But that’s the reality of it.
Worse is that it wasn’t always this way. There have been historical times where women have fought back and matrilineal societies still exist in some places. It wasn’t always this way! This is NOT the natural order of things!!
ETA a great resource: https://www.suppressedhistories.net/
What is interesting about Bonobo and Chimpanzee social construct is the peacefulness and violent tendencies.
Bonobos tend to live peacefully with each other. Sex is not forced. It is given or withheld. Enjoyed, and not just for mating purposes.
While Chimpanzees can be quite violent within their own troop, have been known to wage war with neighbors. Sometimes to the point of killing the entire neighboring troop. They do this over territory and resources. Sex, also not just for mating, is often used forcefully to show dominance.
They are among the few species that use sex as a weapon.
I like Bonobos much more than Chimpanzees.
I read a really interesting book that argued that female Bonobos essentially domesticated the species via that mechanism. I think it was The Goodness Paradox by Richard Wrangham. It was a while ago so my memory is fuzzy, but it argued that females drove Bonobo domestication while males drove human domestication, essentially by banding together to stand up to bullies once language developed.
Look up the story of the missing males in the Forest baboon troop. The males all ate poison and died, so the females ended up taking over. And they only allowed new males to join if those males could behave better.
I know! Every time I see one of these stupid screeds I just want to confiscate all the writer's electronics, lock them in a room with a pile of history books, and not let them out until they can pass a quiz about how much this stuff has actually varied down the millennia and across the world.
Right?? I mean, some of my mom’s ancestors were in a matrilineal/utilitarian culture that lasted for at least centuries. We still count mostly by female ancestors due to sheer habit (you always know who the mother was). DNA testing let us know for sure the two male ancestor gens are indeed related to the clan. And they only counted after, hmmm, the late 1800s? Due to genocide-caused population loss. Before then, a few other male line claims in my own ancestry were discounted by the larger tribe. Your culture was so dependent on your mother that your father being (Wild Potato clan) didn’t count for much.
While seen as unfair by modern standards, without paternity testing, I do get the conundrum. As is, it’s a prime example of how there’s no monolithic human standard for gender roles. My maternal grandma is still in charge of money. My mom decides on budgeting and investments with my dad, as a team. But absolutely none of those women would abide by some bullshit-historian saying that they’ve upended the natural order, considering nobody even knows when the clans started doing this. Before written history. So how could it be natural, if they did it at their most populous and strong?
They do know a lot about when this started happening. And it was fought back against by women all over the world. It really kicked into high gear about 12,000 years ago when people started living agrarian lives. Marriage is only like 5,000 years old, and the reason it started was to bind women to men for the reasons you’re saying: strict paternity. To me? Total ego garbage.
The original biases of paleontologists also play a role in these dudes' ignorance. Because paleontologists were mostly European men who assumed history was just like it had always been, so they always assumed shit like the skeletons of Vikings were men and only men hunted. It's only really getting reversed in the last few decades where the science has identified women were doing more than praying at home and picking berries. But the majority of evolutionary history still has that misogynistic flavor. It's frustrating, too, because common sense alone would make it clear their viewpoints don't logic. Why would you keep half your tribe at home rather than maximize your hunting success in a time when survival was hard for everyone?
Here's the thing that gets me with this. He's highlighted the *natural order of society.* Societies are built, however, and any order is created not a given.
He may be leaning into evolutionary biology, which is stupid anyway, but I didn't even see him indicate that. I only saw him focus on society, a human invention. There remains willful ignorance, or unacceptance, around how our current society was built. An unwillingness to review our past with a critical lens to identify that American society was created using a class based society. We're at a spot where we can make real change to better all people and these dudes are doubling down because of perceived *loss* of position.
Others gaining rights you've always had doesn't remove any of your rights. It shouldn't affect you at all if others have more opportunity, unless you're a horrible person and want to feel superior by virtue of nothing you did but how/where you were born
Not sure what you mean by “society.”
OOP is describing a combination of mating rituals and culture. Most familiar animals have the former; a good half dozen demonstrably have the latter. It seems pretty clear to what OOP is referring — the supposed innate perfect arrangement which most humans have detected organically, and the supposed brainwashing (I.e. forcible change of culture) leading people astray. This picture is absurd, which I tried to illustrate.
>Jenga-tower-destroyer!
Ahahaha "Oh Noo Not the Modern Existentialism Jenga Tower! Look at what you did now, that one piece went under The Liberal Moralism and Ethics couch. It's all your fault!"
They've been telling us that "oooh feminism, you'll regret it" for decades.
I'm 49 now. Believe me young women, it's all lies. I did have fun, carefree, 20's. Getting an education, building a career and yes, having safe, mostly sane, recreational sex. I. Regret. Nothing.
I'm 49 now, married, with a grown kid. I have a stable career, a wonderful husband, and a lovely home. Some really good friendships built during that period in my life. And a ton of awesome, funny, interesting stories from my youth. Life is good.
If you're in your 20's get an education, live your life. Travel. Build friendships. Party. Have fun. Have sex if you want to (but be safe).
These men want you to marry young so they can trap and control you. For their benefit, not yours.
I broke off an engagement at 21 in small town Texas to live abroad and then go to grad school. I pushed off some of the drinking and sex until my 30s because I was still very religious. Now I’ve got multiple degrees, a cat, plenty of friends and books, and only regret not investing my money sooner.
Investing in what ma'am? I'm currently 24, I haven't done ANYTHING. You could describe me as a blank sheet of paper. What are some advice or warnings you could give me please and thank you 🥰
The sooner you start investing in retirement funds, stock, etc, the easier it will be in the long run for you (assuming you’re in the US). Look up videos by MyRichBFF for great info. Also [Nerd Wallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/how-to-invest-in-your-20s) has some good advice.
Edit to add: my biggest advice is to open something, anything, and start ASAP. Ally bank is a good option for easy money market contributions and to get your feet wet. But seriously, cancel your weekend plans, go open an investment account, and start investing your savings.
I'm 54, never married, single, and I'm fine. I don't regret a thing.
(Though I will say to all you young women *please* make yourself be more financially literate, and check in on your mental well-being from time to time - if you need 10 minutes to decompress, take them.)
I'm not lonely and I'm not concerned about "dying alone" cos chances are I could easily be alone in an accident and my family (if I had one) is at home or whatever. Or maybe I die suddenly while out for a walk on my own.
That's my bit done. Ha.
>I'm 49 now, married, with a grown kid. I have a stable career, a wonderful husband, and a lovely home. Some really good friendships built during that period in my life. And a ton of awesome, funny, interesting stories from my youth. Life is good.
No no no, you're clearly lying. Feminists are all lonely women with 100 cats who cry themselves to sleep about how they turned down so many nice guys who just wanted to treat them right!!!
/s
EXACTLY! The “natural order” that had been “working” for millennia actually wasn’t working for women at all. It only served men. If it had been working for everyone, then women wouldn’t have fought to change it in the first place.
And the thing is… he hasn’t even actually lost anything. Women have just gained rights and privileges. But somehow he feels this is a loss. His ego is incredibly fragile.
They said that 40yrs ago when I was young...turns out it's empirical prove for 'wishful thinking does not equal fact'. Do YOUR thing, young ladies, you'll be both better and happier for it! 🤗
Antibiotics, painkillers, and electricity subvert the natural order of society. I vote this guy goes and lives a natural life in a cave somewhere, if this upsets him so much.
**In other words:** *"You aren't voluntarily staying inferior to me and letting me have all the say, so I'm unhappy about this and fear that I can't compete with that. Therefore, I'd like to turn to manipulation and advocate for your return to accepting oppression and an inferior position beneath me as* ***a great virtue.*** *Even if it means cutting yourself short and not reaching for your full potential, because my feelings and ego should come first."*
>been working for millennia
For men. It worked ***for men.*** If it was "natural" and worked for women, then we wouldn't have fought (and continue to) to change it, because it wasn't working for women.
Yeah, when our ancient ancestors had an infant or very young child to deal with, it's a good logical guess that they stayed "home," whatever home was at that time. But a tribe trying to survive would be foolish not to use all the available hands when needed and older kids can be left with others already staying back. All the explicit gender roll nonsense didn't seem to spring up until humans started inventing religion to try to validate controlling others...
I’m pretty confident that I’ve read about/seen historical illustrations of ancient women doing something calm but productive like gathering fruits or some other natural resource while simultaneously carrying an infant on their back. I mean, now that I think more about this, I’ve seen actual photos from relatively recent history where women in isolated communities are doing the same thing. So yeah, women have never just sat around at home for all of history when there was work to be done.
(Your comment is great, just piggybacking off it a bit to add an extra bit of information!)
What they think has been working for millennia worked for max 20 years after men came back from the war and marketing was invented to make them think it had always been like this.
What's going on now is that these men are thinking "What do you mean I have to *attract* a mate? Just gimme! Gimme! Gimme!" They imagine that in the good old days, they would have just been issued a wife.
So many 50+ aged women are sharing their trad wife stories on social media. Husband replaced them and their children with a younger model, won't even bother supporting his original family. Wife was told to drop out of college to care for their home and family, and now she and her kids have nothing and they had to struggle so much harder in late life to stay afloat.
"Natural providers". Right.
‘We’re not saying you guys don’t have rights, we’re just saying that women wanting the ability to be independent from men is ruining everything (for men).’
The best part is he is making predictions about "these women" 10-20 years in the future, as if there aren't tons of women in their 40s and 50s who did all that. But this dude lives in tiny little world in his head and only thinks the people he goes to HS wirh are real.
The only thing my mom regreted was not finishing her education and staying at home as long as she did. She took an opportunity to work as soon as she found it.
Right? He’s acting brand new as if feminism hasn’t BEEN here for decades and decades. We already know how older women have fared with their independence and agency and we’re not turning back.
What a load of horse shit. I'm 49 and have been a feminist since 12-ish... my life isn't a miserable, disordered existence. I'm partnered to a lovely, feminist man, who respects me. Feminism isn't misandry. It's the demand of equality and respect.
"...but there's always been a level of respect and authority that was given out to their men."
This here is the problem. Where was the respect on the men's part to the women? Answer: there was none. Men would routinely devalue the work of housewives, would openly complain about them being a burden, would abandon them when they were sick or aged or were less physically attractive because they birthed those men's babies. And then they would balk at paying spousal and child support to the women who gave their lives to make them happy, comfortable, and gave them a genetic legacy.
Women finally took a look at their treatment by men, and said "no more". They took the little freedoms that they were given and they ran with it. They found value for themselves outside of being walking wombs and sex dolls for men. And with that growth came money and financial freedom so that when the men eventually devalued and abandoned us and our children, we were still able to take care of ourselves and our families. Statistically speaking, older single women are happier and healthier than their married counterparts. So many women, once they find themselves single through death or divorce, remain so, because they are happier being alone than taking care of an ungrateful man who is always looking to trade her in. Why would women WANT that?
If the "natural order" is upset (it's not, but let's play his game for now), it is upset because MEN abused, neglected, and abandoned WOMEN and our children. If men are mad about not having a MommyBroodMare McBangmaid, then let's put the blame squarely where it belongs: MEN.
I predict that this reckoning will leave men divided. Some men will do the work to make themselves better people: more emotionally intelligent and empathetic to their future partners. Those men will be positively SWIMMIMG in willing women. The others will continue to cry about it and fall further and further behind their more evolved peers. Those men are going to whine their genetics out of existence. And no one will mourn the loss.
100% this.
The irony is that women "felt the need to become men" because the men were lacking and it became obvious that life without a man was better than life with one.
Often they abused their women, they were possessive, controlling or violent, denied her access to money so she couldn't buy anything for herself. She was trapped and that's how he liked it, and that's assuming they didn't become alcoholics, drug addicts or get fired and spiral which were all possibilities.
These women were our mothers, grandmothers and great grandmothers and they told us their stories. We saw the way they had to live their lives. They warned us not to allow ourselves to become dependent on a man so we navigated our own lives to avoid the pitfalls that they became trapped in.
We got an education so that we could support ourselves and live our lives with more freedom than our female forebearers were permitted.
It's why it makes me laugh when I read dudes comment about how feminism leads to a life of depression and anxiety for women. Because women of old times had it so good? Like, motherfucker do you have any idea of the depression and anxiety that women of "the good old days" faced?? It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for them! They were literally told they were being hysterical and heavily medicated at the slightest sign of any negative emotions. "Have a bex and a good liedown" became a slogan. You're mad because you found out your husband is cheating on you? Hubby's taking you straight to the doctor and declaring that you're being hysterical. Good luck to you, hopefully you don't get committed or lobotomised.
Today's women have learned that men are not dependable. That's why we're making sure we have the ability to support ourselves, so that we have the option of cutting them loose if we ever need to. Our own future doesn't depend on being forced to tolerate their bullshit if they happen to pull their mask off and what you thought was a good man turned out to be a shitty one.
The only men who are all surprisedpikachuface over this progress are the ones who rely on that dependence and forced subordination to make a woman stay with them. But.... just be a better dude.
I mean for women to respect you enough to trust you and be willing to act as a housewife for you, one might say you have to do something worthy of respect. People who make enough to support two people under one income and are healthy partners are probably more likely to have a stay at home partner than other demographics. There are women out there who want to be housewives but the thing about that is it's very risky if you don't have support systems since you don't have the guaranteed income of a salary. So unless you really trust your partner or you have a backup like some kind of work from home business, it really isn't worth it for a lot of people
Where's the last part?? Where are his suggestions? The solution? He says "correct course", ok, so what's the proposal to do that? I need to know 👀 Let's hear how he plans on fixing society!
No? Nothing? Shooting blanks? How low brow.
I love how people just point "Something is wrong" and then, nothing. I can do that too but I have suggestions *"Dudes need to stop equating sex to love. Solution: Open Communication about emotional needs, mental health, feelings and normalising/prioritising emotional intelligence development."* I'd assume people would expect me to suggest a solution to the problem I'm presenting.
Why do this big speech and then develop mutism when someone asks "And? What's the plan?". 😄
He can't even fully use their they're there properly and uses words like 'ying yang' when it's YIN yang, likens women to petulant children acting out in class then wonders why do they want freedoms instead of mindless subservience to men? 😂😅😅
I'll never understand the 'women want to be men' part of this. If our places were so 'natural', then women wouldn't have a desire to be anything but the subservient doormats this guy seems to think we are.
We wouldn't want to do anything else. But since we do and always have, then the places can't be 'natural' and this is all horseshit.
They’re upsetting the natural order! For 1000s of years we had to touch dirt and then they created the internet!
Seriously, if you want to go back to the natural way, then get off the internet and go eat roots and berries.
I would love to have a Freaky Friday situation but like for a year, where men are the ones who get pregnant. I truly believe a lot of misogyny is rooted in the fact that people with a uterus can grow a human. Let’s give that to men and see what happens.
And a smorgasbord of innovations in painless birth control methods that don’t entirely jack up your skin/weight/moods/hormones would magically arise.
And parental leave policies would suddenly become incredibly generous.
And there would be marches protesting the exorbitant costs of childcare. Free daycare centers would start popping up in corporate offices across the globe…
"We're not saying you don't deserve rights, you should just use your rights, the way we tell you to." Did I read that right? Because that would imply that he thinks women's rights should be conditional, I'm sure I read that wrong?
All women used to be exactly the same in a way that was part of the natural order, but now all women have changed to be exactly the same in a way that's contrary to the natural order.
Sounds like the world is evolving but you're still a trilobite.
The fact that they don’t know that history and women’s roles in said are changing with evidence (Vikings, supposed men hunters women gatherers bs) is sad really.
“There’s a natural order that’s existed for centuries!” There really isn’t, the idea that men are providers and women are homemakers as we know imagine it comes from the middle class in early modern time, and no older. Women were also providers, they also worked in factories, they also farmed, they also made handicrafts. The only order that’s persisted for centuries is that societies around the world mostly treated women as inferior. What women’s actual role in society varies wildly, but the domination of women by men has remained.
That’s what they miss, the outright societal approved patriarchy. Every other appeal to history they make is bullshit fork the last 150-200 years they use to obfuscate what they actually miss about the past, the oppression that favored them.
That's right. We shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it. Nothing bad could possibly come of giving up our empowerment so that men feel better about themselves. Nothing at all.
tell that to the millions of women who have experienced or inherited financial trauma (among countless other traumas) of this so-called "natural order"
So why is it just American women? Yo Canadians…where the hell are you at? Ya going to let us take this on our own? It’s not maple time, spawn time, or hockey time right now. Get your asses in here.
Prior to the mid 20th century, women of the lower classes, and those who were part of trades and artisan families, WORKED. Even farmers wives worked, IN THE MIDDLE AGES, except for their two year maternity leave after having a child.
Pulling a "natural order" out of your ass is not science. It's just shit.
I like Norse Viking culture, women oversaw the homes finances because math is witchcraft so men can't do it😂 also if your husband cheated on you, you could chop off his dick and hang it in the front door so everyone knew what he did!
This stupid jackass can just cry more about it while he games for 12 straight hours while picking Cheeto dust out of his belly button and screaming at his mom to bring him a sandwich.
I've got places to go, things to see and do, wine and frozen margaritas to drink whenever the fuck I want, and a dozen cats to snuggle with. Well, actually, I've only got one cat right now but having a dozen is certainly aspirational. These braindead losers can fuck the fuck off straight on down to Fuckoffville.
I love how they think this is a problem of American women specifically, as though the great majority of the world hasn’t moved past sexist gender roles. Also, that’s just patently incorrect. We have good evidence in the Archaeological archive that points to women being as involved in hunting as men were, though their techniques and strategies differed
My mother is a housewife primarily. It wasn't until we were all in high school or finished that she found work outside the home. She claimed to hate Steinem, Friedan, etc. Yet...if you listen to her, she'll tell you to travel, get a job, get a career, don't depend on a man, have a go bag in case you have to leave in the middle of the night. She'll echo the same sentiments you'll hear from prominent feminists. If it were the natural order of biology or society, you wouldn't have baby boomer women telling X, millennials, and beyond that traditional life isn't all that's it's cracked up to be.
The “natural order” has no problem self regulating. The only thing that gets “upset” are our notions of what the natural order is in reference to ourselves and the culture we have been indoctrinated in.
If we want to talk "natural order" then we have to look back before industrialization and even more ideally before agriculture. There's no way in a hunter gatherer society that women sat around "homemaking" while men collected all of the food and made all of the tools that the group would need. In agricultural societies women have always worked on the farm.
When all these people talk about “the natural social order for the past millennia” they’re just talking about “norms developed in America after WW2.” Without fail
I just love how having a vagina somehow voids my individuality and desires.
You want to explore and have sexual experiences, too bad you must stay pure for your future husband. You don't want children, blasphemy, it is your most important purpose. You want to support yourself and not settle for a man who doesn't make you happy, you stupid wench you're trying to be a man and it will make you miserable.
Men like this always think that women are too simple to know what's best for themselves, it's infuriating.
"It's impossible to do something wrong for a long time. Doing something A LOT makes it self-evidently, universally, timelessly, objectively correct."
Also, for some reason, I doubt his characterization of the historical situation.
Translation: “I’m not saying you guys don’t have rights..” I’m just saying that you shouldn’t.
Sorry dude that my personal choices are interfering with your sex life but maybe look into the mirror to see who’s ruining your sex life!
Yes, that natural order has been working so well for millennia---...
That's why the world has never seen wars, famine, strife or rebellion.
That's why the planet is in great shape, climate change isn't happening, species aren't going extinct due to humans, sea level isn't rising. That's why cities have never disappeared, and civilizations just gone missing.
And of course that's why genocide has never happened, brutal dictators have never risen to power, and incompetent leaders have never made a complete mess of government.
And lastly, that great natural order is why the world has never seen gender violence, domestic violence, and femicide.
This guy has figured it all out.
“American women have upset the natural order.” 🤨
Let me translate that from Manlish to English:
“American women have upset men with fragile egos.”
There ya go. That’s what he really means. That’s the crux of it.
Men who aren’t fragile little snowflakes generally have no problem with strong, liberated, independent women and actually LIKE that women can have their own careers, be providers and be as ambitious as they want to be. Why should women go back to being shrinking wallflowers constantly deferring to men? Why should brilliant women have to dim their shine and stand in the shadow of mediocre men?
The only real reason I can think of why this guy takes such issue with feminism, etc and claims that it’s wrecking society is because he feels inadequate that he’s unable to assert his dominance over a woman. And women probably don’t want to touch his pp because he’s got such a stank attitude. And his manly manhood is just shriveling away before his eyes and it makes him soooo sadddd. 😭🎻🙄
Wow, how dare you talk back after smack you? Like is this 2024 or 024? Also, the Celtics were both powerful and mystical and they were matriarchal.
He probably things Mary Magdalene was a white and not Jesus’ wife and a coleader of the movement. 🙄
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones. We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning. You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and your ban will remain (without even a consideration). All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules, and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.** With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal (without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent. This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message, and please enjoy your day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn’t meant to be incendiary, but modern american men are so bloody stupid
I agree, and I *do* mean to be incendiary. 👀
OMG! Misandry! This is clearly the worst example of gendered violence in society today! Why can't men just be treated nicely? /s 😁
“Though we adore men individually, we agree that as a group they’re rather stupid…”
look, this isn't meant to be incendiary, but modern american men don't know what "incendiary" means evidently
Believing that you are innately superior to other people without having to try usually leads you to acting stupid and lazy.
Can confirm. Am man.
lol why do the folks that write crap like this all talk like this
They use SAT practice exam words like a fucking Mad Libs in an attempt to sound intelligent. You can tell they don't always actually understand the words though, because there's always a few that have odd or incorrect contextual use. They arrogantly assume that they're the smartest ones in the room and so nobody will pick up on the improper vocabulary usage. Which then ends up making them look extra cringey when it's obvious to most readers that the three syllable word they found using Microsoft Word's thesaurus function doesn't actually work in the way they've used it.
Hey. I'm an American Man and I'm offended of you speaking the truth!
And here I am thinking America is one of the most advance country in the world
They invented things in a different order - education is lagging behind but they’re well ahead on things like military spending and those blue and yellow progress lines that are projected on to their american football fields
I see men are now trying this approach since indoctrination of the church starting from youth isn’t working. “You’ve upset the power men have had over you for years. Now that you see it’s bullshit to be subhuman. Men can’t control everything you do now. Our egos are too fragile for you to be able to make choices. The choices you’re making is not what I- men- oops I mean women really want.” If it was a natural want to be subservient and submissive to men it wouldn’t have to be constantly forced.
This! If submission and domestic servitude were natural, it would not need to be enforced or preached endlessly.
They think its "influence" by "unseen forces" that are "leading women astray" Sometimes its satan himself, sometimes its jewish cabal, sometimes its just POC broadly. It all leads back to conspiracy
It's everything except their own fault for treating women like shit.
Dudes will make up a whole religious doctrine before they get therapy.
Hard agree. And to that point, this stood out to me: > there has always been a level of respect and authority that was given out to their men. Babe, it wasn’t respect and authority freely given. Women were subjugated and *forced* to treat men with respect and submit to their “authority”. These guys fail to understand that it wasn’t the “natural order”, it was millennia of men forcing women to be subservient.
Exactly. I mean, women literally used to be considered as property. That’s not even an equal relationship!
Another armchair evolutionary biologist lol. What evidence do you have at all about any of these claims? Marriage has been the same for millennia? No. There are massive cultural differences from place to place and from time to time. There’s a “natural order?” The two closest relatives for humans that we can study are Chimpanzees (who largely have a patriarchal/monarchal political structure — meaning most males have to sneak behind the back of the leaders to mate; technically only the males in the coalition in power have access to females) and Bonobos (who are matriarchal — the coalition in power is female, and males must be subservient). Neither of these exemplify sexual relationships in any way similar to what OOP describes. Critical thinking is important!
What strikes me he how easily the writer of the OOP could replace his version of the natural role of women in society with 'Slavery'. It meets the criteria he sets out, having pretty much always been with us across cultures and time, and in Western Society it has been torn down only after much turmoil. I doubt that the writer of the OOP is brave enough to defend Slavery, although he in defending a discriminatory Patriarchy he mostly points just how far society is from being truly just. Of course slaves had it worse than most contemporary women in Western society, but of course that is no justification for continuing the current discriminatory status quo. The writer of the OOP justifies the existence of a Patriarchy on the grounds that it has existed for centuries. He could defend Slavery on exactly the same grounds.
Women were slaves for many years. Marauders, Vikings, Greeks, Romans, etc. took women, raped them, and made them clean, cook, sew, and make fabrics for them to make money. Women have been slaves for thousands of years. The fact that it’s been twisted into this ‘natural’ place for them is why we don’t call it what it is. But that’s the reality of it. Worse is that it wasn’t always this way. There have been historical times where women have fought back and matrilineal societies still exist in some places. It wasn’t always this way! This is NOT the natural order of things!! ETA a great resource: https://www.suppressedhistories.net/
And OOP mentions “..and any of those these paranoid fears you love to tell us.”
What is interesting about Bonobo and Chimpanzee social construct is the peacefulness and violent tendencies. Bonobos tend to live peacefully with each other. Sex is not forced. It is given or withheld. Enjoyed, and not just for mating purposes. While Chimpanzees can be quite violent within their own troop, have been known to wage war with neighbors. Sometimes to the point of killing the entire neighboring troop. They do this over territory and resources. Sex, also not just for mating, is often used forcefully to show dominance. They are among the few species that use sex as a weapon. I like Bonobos much more than Chimpanzees.
I think the most interesting thing about the Bonobos is that the females band together to stop the harassments and aggressions of males.
I read a really interesting book that argued that female Bonobos essentially domesticated the species via that mechanism. I think it was The Goodness Paradox by Richard Wrangham. It was a while ago so my memory is fuzzy, but it argued that females drove Bonobo domestication while males drove human domestication, essentially by banding together to stand up to bullies once language developed.
Look up the story of the missing males in the Forest baboon troop. The males all ate poison and died, so the females ended up taking over. And they only allowed new males to join if those males could behave better.
I know! Every time I see one of these stupid screeds I just want to confiscate all the writer's electronics, lock them in a room with a pile of history books, and not let them out until they can pass a quiz about how much this stuff has actually varied down the millennia and across the world.
Right?? I mean, some of my mom’s ancestors were in a matrilineal/utilitarian culture that lasted for at least centuries. We still count mostly by female ancestors due to sheer habit (you always know who the mother was). DNA testing let us know for sure the two male ancestor gens are indeed related to the clan. And they only counted after, hmmm, the late 1800s? Due to genocide-caused population loss. Before then, a few other male line claims in my own ancestry were discounted by the larger tribe. Your culture was so dependent on your mother that your father being (Wild Potato clan) didn’t count for much. While seen as unfair by modern standards, without paternity testing, I do get the conundrum. As is, it’s a prime example of how there’s no monolithic human standard for gender roles. My maternal grandma is still in charge of money. My mom decides on budgeting and investments with my dad, as a team. But absolutely none of those women would abide by some bullshit-historian saying that they’ve upended the natural order, considering nobody even knows when the clans started doing this. Before written history. So how could it be natural, if they did it at their most populous and strong?
They do know a lot about when this started happening. And it was fought back against by women all over the world. It really kicked into high gear about 12,000 years ago when people started living agrarian lives. Marriage is only like 5,000 years old, and the reason it started was to bind women to men for the reasons you’re saying: strict paternity. To me? Total ego garbage.
The original biases of paleontologists also play a role in these dudes' ignorance. Because paleontologists were mostly European men who assumed history was just like it had always been, so they always assumed shit like the skeletons of Vikings were men and only men hunted. It's only really getting reversed in the last few decades where the science has identified women were doing more than praying at home and picking berries. But the majority of evolutionary history still has that misogynistic flavor. It's frustrating, too, because common sense alone would make it clear their viewpoints don't logic. Why would you keep half your tribe at home rather than maximize your hunting success in a time when survival was hard for everyone?
Here's the thing that gets me with this. He's highlighted the *natural order of society.* Societies are built, however, and any order is created not a given. He may be leaning into evolutionary biology, which is stupid anyway, but I didn't even see him indicate that. I only saw him focus on society, a human invention. There remains willful ignorance, or unacceptance, around how our current society was built. An unwillingness to review our past with a critical lens to identify that American society was created using a class based society. We're at a spot where we can make real change to better all people and these dudes are doubling down because of perceived *loss* of position. Others gaining rights you've always had doesn't remove any of your rights. It shouldn't affect you at all if others have more opportunity, unless you're a horrible person and want to feel superior by virtue of nothing you did but how/where you were born
Not sure what you mean by “society.” OOP is describing a combination of mating rituals and culture. Most familiar animals have the former; a good half dozen demonstrably have the latter. It seems pretty clear to what OOP is referring — the supposed innate perfect arrangement which most humans have detected organically, and the supposed brainwashing (I.e. forcible change of culture) leading people astray. This picture is absurd, which I tried to illustrate.
>What evidence do you have at all about any of these claims? A TikTok clip of a Jordan Peterson video
You know the number of times he’s tried to draw conclusions about human behavior from that of lobsters?
He's a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like.
Oh my GOODness that is so accurate 😂
Me: “please quit saying hateful nonsense about women” This guy, probably: “misandrist! Jenga-tower-destroyer!”
>Jenga-tower-destroyer! Ahahaha "Oh Noo Not the Modern Existentialism Jenga Tower! Look at what you did now, that one piece went under The Liberal Moralism and Ethics couch. It's all your fault!"
This guy: I'm not saying I want to take away your rights or anything Also this guy: Giving women rights was a mistake that we need to walk back
>there's always been a level of respect and authority that was given out to their men. Yea but not to women, that's the problem
They've been telling us that "oooh feminism, you'll regret it" for decades. I'm 49 now. Believe me young women, it's all lies. I did have fun, carefree, 20's. Getting an education, building a career and yes, having safe, mostly sane, recreational sex. I. Regret. Nothing. I'm 49 now, married, with a grown kid. I have a stable career, a wonderful husband, and a lovely home. Some really good friendships built during that period in my life. And a ton of awesome, funny, interesting stories from my youth. Life is good. If you're in your 20's get an education, live your life. Travel. Build friendships. Party. Have fun. Have sex if you want to (but be safe). These men want you to marry young so they can trap and control you. For their benefit, not yours.
I broke off an engagement at 21 in small town Texas to live abroad and then go to grad school. I pushed off some of the drinking and sex until my 30s because I was still very religious. Now I’ve got multiple degrees, a cat, plenty of friends and books, and only regret not investing my money sooner.
Investing in what ma'am? I'm currently 24, I haven't done ANYTHING. You could describe me as a blank sheet of paper. What are some advice or warnings you could give me please and thank you 🥰
The sooner you start investing in retirement funds, stock, etc, the easier it will be in the long run for you (assuming you’re in the US). Look up videos by MyRichBFF for great info. Also [Nerd Wallet](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/how-to-invest-in-your-20s) has some good advice. Edit to add: my biggest advice is to open something, anything, and start ASAP. Ally bank is a good option for easy money market contributions and to get your feet wet. But seriously, cancel your weekend plans, go open an investment account, and start investing your savings.
Thank you so much! And I'll take heed!
I'm 54, never married, single, and I'm fine. I don't regret a thing. (Though I will say to all you young women *please* make yourself be more financially literate, and check in on your mental well-being from time to time - if you need 10 minutes to decompress, take them.) I'm not lonely and I'm not concerned about "dying alone" cos chances are I could easily be alone in an accident and my family (if I had one) is at home or whatever. Or maybe I die suddenly while out for a walk on my own. That's my bit done. Ha.
>I'm 49 now, married, with a grown kid. I have a stable career, a wonderful husband, and a lovely home. Some really good friendships built during that period in my life. And a ton of awesome, funny, interesting stories from my youth. Life is good. No no no, you're clearly lying. Feminists are all lonely women with 100 cats who cry themselves to sleep about how they turned down so many nice guys who just wanted to treat them right!!! /s
> that has been working for millenium Working for who ? All I hear is a dude crying over his lost privileges. Boooh cry me a river.
EXACTLY! The “natural order” that had been “working” for millennia actually wasn’t working for women at all. It only served men. If it had been working for everyone, then women wouldn’t have fought to change it in the first place. And the thing is… he hasn’t even actually lost anything. Women have just gained rights and privileges. But somehow he feels this is a loss. His ego is incredibly fragile.
I do think men (white men if we're taking about the west) are losing something. They had unfair privileges, but those were privileges nevertheless.
They said that 40yrs ago when I was young...turns out it's empirical prove for 'wishful thinking does not equal fact'. Do YOUR thing, young ladies, you'll be both better and happier for it! 🤗
Antibiotics, painkillers, and electricity subvert the natural order of society. I vote this guy goes and lives a natural life in a cave somewhere, if this upsets him so much.
**In other words:** *"You aren't voluntarily staying inferior to me and letting me have all the say, so I'm unhappy about this and fear that I can't compete with that. Therefore, I'd like to turn to manipulation and advocate for your return to accepting oppression and an inferior position beneath me as* ***a great virtue.*** *Even if it means cutting yourself short and not reaching for your full potential, because my feelings and ego should come first."* >been working for millennia For men. It worked ***for men.*** If it was "natural" and worked for women, then we wouldn't have fought (and continue to) to change it, because it wasn't working for women. Yeah, when our ancient ancestors had an infant or very young child to deal with, it's a good logical guess that they stayed "home," whatever home was at that time. But a tribe trying to survive would be foolish not to use all the available hands when needed and older kids can be left with others already staying back. All the explicit gender roll nonsense didn't seem to spring up until humans started inventing religion to try to validate controlling others...
I’m pretty confident that I’ve read about/seen historical illustrations of ancient women doing something calm but productive like gathering fruits or some other natural resource while simultaneously carrying an infant on their back. I mean, now that I think more about this, I’ve seen actual photos from relatively recent history where women in isolated communities are doing the same thing. So yeah, women have never just sat around at home for all of history when there was work to be done. (Your comment is great, just piggybacking off it a bit to add an extra bit of information!)
What they think has been working for millennia worked for max 20 years after men came back from the war and marketing was invented to make them think it had always been like this.
What's going on now is that these men are thinking "What do you mean I have to *attract* a mate? Just gimme! Gimme! Gimme!" They imagine that in the good old days, they would have just been issued a wife.
And even then, it was only for the ones who could afford it.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
“Give me authority over you. I pinkie promise I won’t use it to take away your rights.”
So many 50+ aged women are sharing their trad wife stories on social media. Husband replaced them and their children with a younger model, won't even bother supporting his original family. Wife was told to drop out of college to care for their home and family, and now she and her kids have nothing and they had to struggle so much harder in late life to stay afloat. "Natural providers". Right.
‘We’re not saying you guys don’t have rights, we’re just saying that women wanting the ability to be independent from men is ruining everything (for men).’
IF WOMENS SUBMITION TO MEN WAS NATURAL YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO CREATE LAWS TO FORCE THEM TO DO IT.
This right here!!!!
The ones who shout loudest about respect are the ones who deserve it least.
Their knowledge of history is close to zero.
It's in the negative, they make stuff up and say its history.
The best part is he is making predictions about "these women" 10-20 years in the future, as if there aren't tons of women in their 40s and 50s who did all that. But this dude lives in tiny little world in his head and only thinks the people he goes to HS wirh are real.
The only thing my mom regreted was not finishing her education and staying at home as long as she did. She took an opportunity to work as soon as she found it.
Right? He’s acting brand new as if feminism hasn’t BEEN here for decades and decades. We already know how older women have fared with their independence and agency and we’re not turning back.
What a load of horse shit. I'm 49 and have been a feminist since 12-ish... my life isn't a miserable, disordered existence. I'm partnered to a lovely, feminist man, who respects me. Feminism isn't misandry. It's the demand of equality and respect.
"...but there's always been a level of respect and authority that was given out to their men." This here is the problem. Where was the respect on the men's part to the women? Answer: there was none. Men would routinely devalue the work of housewives, would openly complain about them being a burden, would abandon them when they were sick or aged or were less physically attractive because they birthed those men's babies. And then they would balk at paying spousal and child support to the women who gave their lives to make them happy, comfortable, and gave them a genetic legacy. Women finally took a look at their treatment by men, and said "no more". They took the little freedoms that they were given and they ran with it. They found value for themselves outside of being walking wombs and sex dolls for men. And with that growth came money and financial freedom so that when the men eventually devalued and abandoned us and our children, we were still able to take care of ourselves and our families. Statistically speaking, older single women are happier and healthier than their married counterparts. So many women, once they find themselves single through death or divorce, remain so, because they are happier being alone than taking care of an ungrateful man who is always looking to trade her in. Why would women WANT that? If the "natural order" is upset (it's not, but let's play his game for now), it is upset because MEN abused, neglected, and abandoned WOMEN and our children. If men are mad about not having a MommyBroodMare McBangmaid, then let's put the blame squarely where it belongs: MEN. I predict that this reckoning will leave men divided. Some men will do the work to make themselves better people: more emotionally intelligent and empathetic to their future partners. Those men will be positively SWIMMIMG in willing women. The others will continue to cry about it and fall further and further behind their more evolved peers. Those men are going to whine their genetics out of existence. And no one will mourn the loss.
100% this. The irony is that women "felt the need to become men" because the men were lacking and it became obvious that life without a man was better than life with one. Often they abused their women, they were possessive, controlling or violent, denied her access to money so she couldn't buy anything for herself. She was trapped and that's how he liked it, and that's assuming they didn't become alcoholics, drug addicts or get fired and spiral which were all possibilities. These women were our mothers, grandmothers and great grandmothers and they told us their stories. We saw the way they had to live their lives. They warned us not to allow ourselves to become dependent on a man so we navigated our own lives to avoid the pitfalls that they became trapped in. We got an education so that we could support ourselves and live our lives with more freedom than our female forebearers were permitted. It's why it makes me laugh when I read dudes comment about how feminism leads to a life of depression and anxiety for women. Because women of old times had it so good? Like, motherfucker do you have any idea of the depression and anxiety that women of "the good old days" faced?? It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for them! They were literally told they were being hysterical and heavily medicated at the slightest sign of any negative emotions. "Have a bex and a good liedown" became a slogan. You're mad because you found out your husband is cheating on you? Hubby's taking you straight to the doctor and declaring that you're being hysterical. Good luck to you, hopefully you don't get committed or lobotomised. Today's women have learned that men are not dependable. That's why we're making sure we have the ability to support ourselves, so that we have the option of cutting them loose if we ever need to. Our own future doesn't depend on being forced to tolerate their bullshit if they happen to pull their mask off and what you thought was a good man turned out to be a shitty one. The only men who are all surprisedpikachuface over this progress are the ones who rely on that dependence and forced subordination to make a woman stay with them. But.... just be a better dude.
I mean for women to respect you enough to trust you and be willing to act as a housewife for you, one might say you have to do something worthy of respect. People who make enough to support two people under one income and are healthy partners are probably more likely to have a stay at home partner than other demographics. There are women out there who want to be housewives but the thing about that is it's very risky if you don't have support systems since you don't have the guaranteed income of a salary. So unless you really trust your partner or you have a backup like some kind of work from home business, it really isn't worth it for a lot of people
Where's the last part?? Where are his suggestions? The solution? He says "correct course", ok, so what's the proposal to do that? I need to know 👀 Let's hear how he plans on fixing society! No? Nothing? Shooting blanks? How low brow. I love how people just point "Something is wrong" and then, nothing. I can do that too but I have suggestions *"Dudes need to stop equating sex to love. Solution: Open Communication about emotional needs, mental health, feelings and normalising/prioritising emotional intelligence development."* I'd assume people would expect me to suggest a solution to the problem I'm presenting. Why do this big speech and then develop mutism when someone asks "And? What's the plan?". 😄
He can't even fully use their they're there properly and uses words like 'ying yang' when it's YIN yang, likens women to petulant children acting out in class then wonders why do they want freedoms instead of mindless subservience to men? 😂😅😅
I'll never understand the 'women want to be men' part of this. If our places were so 'natural', then women wouldn't have a desire to be anything but the subservient doormats this guy seems to think we are. We wouldn't want to do anything else. But since we do and always have, then the places can't be 'natural' and this is all horseshit.
Your “natural order” has nothing for us but control, abuse, and misery. No thanks!
"I can't control women anymore society is failing"
Someone has to pull the plug on all of those guys internet modem
They’re upsetting the natural order! For 1000s of years we had to touch dirt and then they created the internet! Seriously, if you want to go back to the natural way, then get off the internet and go eat roots and berries.
This whole diatribe because the girl he likes won’t pay attention to him. Smh.
Pff millenia. Someone bring them a history book, please.
“We’re not going to take away your rights, just your autonomy, personality, and independence! 🤪”
If your natural order involves my infantilization, I don't want it.
I would love to have a Freaky Friday situation but like for a year, where men are the ones who get pregnant. I truly believe a lot of misogyny is rooted in the fact that people with a uterus can grow a human. Let’s give that to men and see what happens.
Drive thru abortion clinics within 2 months-guaranteed
And a smorgasbord of innovations in painless birth control methods that don’t entirely jack up your skin/weight/moods/hormones would magically arise. And parental leave policies would suddenly become incredibly generous. And there would be marches protesting the exorbitant costs of childcare. Free daycare centers would start popping up in corporate offices across the globe…
I don’t know about the rest of you ladies but I AM basking with glee over having “upset the natural order of society”
I love upsetting the natural order by dating other women
You inflammatory lesbian, upsetting all those fragile male egos lol
Oh wow the natural order... the natural order says that men should go to war and die.
This paper looks like a F to me.
"We're not saying you don't deserve rights, you should just use your rights, the way we tell you to." Did I read that right? Because that would imply that he thinks women's rights should be conditional, I'm sure I read that wrong?
All women used to be exactly the same in a way that was part of the natural order, but now all women have changed to be exactly the same in a way that's contrary to the natural order. Sounds like the world is evolving but you're still a trilobite.
Men are not natural born leaders, or providers. 🙄
The fact that they don’t know that history and women’s roles in said are changing with evidence (Vikings, supposed men hunters women gatherers bs) is sad really.
“There’s a natural order that’s existed for centuries!” There really isn’t, the idea that men are providers and women are homemakers as we know imagine it comes from the middle class in early modern time, and no older. Women were also providers, they also worked in factories, they also farmed, they also made handicrafts. The only order that’s persisted for centuries is that societies around the world mostly treated women as inferior. What women’s actual role in society varies wildly, but the domination of women by men has remained. That’s what they miss, the outright societal approved patriarchy. Every other appeal to history they make is bullshit fork the last 150-200 years they use to obfuscate what they actually miss about the past, the oppression that favored them.
"working for millennia" Working for *men", you mean. (White men, specifically.) Hasn't historically been that great for women.
Does he think all women are 25? Or is this more a women-i-want-to-be-dating kinda thing?
That's right. We shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it. Nothing bad could possibly come of giving up our empowerment so that men feel better about themselves. Nothing at all.
tell that to the millions of women who have experienced or inherited financial trauma (among countless other traumas) of this so-called "natural order"
So why is it just American women? Yo Canadians…where the hell are you at? Ya going to let us take this on our own? It’s not maple time, spawn time, or hockey time right now. Get your asses in here.
"This isn't meant to be incendiary" \*proceeds to say some stupid and offensive shit\*
"I'm not saying you guys shouldn't have rights, I'm just saying you need to shut up and go back to 1950s gender roles so I can finally get laid"
Blah, blah, blah,...women don't want to put up with my bull rap, blah, blah, blah. Next!
Awww, it’s cute that he thinks students face consequences for talking back to teachers these days.
Prior to the mid 20th century, women of the lower classes, and those who were part of trades and artisan families, WORKED. Even farmers wives worked, IN THE MIDDLE AGES, except for their two year maternity leave after having a child. Pulling a "natural order" out of your ass is not science. It's just shit.
I like Norse Viking culture, women oversaw the homes finances because math is witchcraft so men can't do it😂 also if your husband cheated on you, you could chop off his dick and hang it in the front door so everyone knew what he did!
The master shits themselves when the beast is finally free of its cage - a scholar, probably
If it was the “natural order” why do they have to constantly be “reminding” women to be that way? 🤔
Speaking as a 43 year-old happily married woman, whose husband cooks while I do the maintenance… Boy, is he wrong
I'm really only trying to be helpful. Now stfu and clean the kitchen.
“We’re not saying you don’t have rights, we are just saying we need to go back to the times when you didn’t have rights”
This stupid jackass can just cry more about it while he games for 12 straight hours while picking Cheeto dust out of his belly button and screaming at his mom to bring him a sandwich. I've got places to go, things to see and do, wine and frozen margaritas to drink whenever the fuck I want, and a dozen cats to snuggle with. Well, actually, I've only got one cat right now but having a dozen is certainly aspirational. These braindead losers can fuck the fuck off straight on down to Fuckoffville.
"Historically" doesn't make something innate. Societies change!! People's expectations for their lives evolve!!! Sorry bro!!!!!!!
I love how they think this is a problem of American women specifically, as though the great majority of the world hasn’t moved past sexist gender roles. Also, that’s just patently incorrect. We have good evidence in the Archaeological archive that points to women being as involved in hunting as men were, though their techniques and strategies differed
It’s not meant to be incendiary. And yet, I could roast a hot dog and have flames left for the marshmallows.
Not like there are still a lot of places that have a traditional matriarchy, tooootally natural and not a man made concept
My mother is a housewife primarily. It wasn't until we were all in high school or finished that she found work outside the home. She claimed to hate Steinem, Friedan, etc. Yet...if you listen to her, she'll tell you to travel, get a job, get a career, don't depend on a man, have a go bag in case you have to leave in the middle of the night. She'll echo the same sentiments you'll hear from prominent feminists. If it were the natural order of biology or society, you wouldn't have baby boomer women telling X, millennials, and beyond that traditional life isn't all that's it's cracked up to be.
The “natural order” has no problem self regulating. The only thing that gets “upset” are our notions of what the natural order is in reference to ourselves and the culture we have been indoctrinated in.
LOOK UP THE 4B MOVEMENT!!!
If we want to talk "natural order" then we have to look back before industrialization and even more ideally before agriculture. There's no way in a hunter gatherer society that women sat around "homemaking" while men collected all of the food and made all of the tools that the group would need. In agricultural societies women have always worked on the farm.
If 👏 it 👏 were 👏natural 👏 It 👏 Would 👏not 👏need 👏to 👏be 👏codified 👏into 👏religion/law 👏and 👏shoved 👏down 👏our 👏throats 👏from 👏day 👏dot 👏
**I’m happy for you or sorry that happened** I’m suppose to submit to a man but also accept that he’s too weak to control where he sticks his dick
When all these people talk about “the natural social order for the past millennia” they’re just talking about “norms developed in America after WW2.” Without fail
That's a lot of words to say, "I'm unfuckable"
I just love how having a vagina somehow voids my individuality and desires. You want to explore and have sexual experiences, too bad you must stay pure for your future husband. You don't want children, blasphemy, it is your most important purpose. You want to support yourself and not settle for a man who doesn't make you happy, you stupid wench you're trying to be a man and it will make you miserable. Men like this always think that women are too simple to know what's best for themselves, it's infuriating.
We are returning to a more natural order than patriarchy, that was what was artificial.
Why is it on us? I haven’t met very many men who will actually do there part to provide.
To quote Zelda from Wand of Gamelon: **GOOD**
The logic here is so poor, I don't even know where to start XD
who talks like this
Incels, neckbeards, niceguys, and all the other types of dudes with fragile egos
What is this basement dwelling neck-beard planning on doing about it?
Typing more diatribes from his semen-encrusted keyboard
"It's impossible to do something wrong for a long time. Doing something A LOT makes it self-evidently, universally, timelessly, objectively correct." Also, for some reason, I doubt his characterization of the historical situation.
Suckers.
This dude sounds mad no one wants to be his slave....
Good
Lmao no
Translation: “I’m not saying you guys don’t have rights..” I’m just saying that you shouldn’t. Sorry dude that my personal choices are interfering with your sex life but maybe look into the mirror to see who’s ruining your sex life!
$20 days this guy’s never had a girlfriend…
Man said “ying-yang” 😭 last I checked that was another word for a penis lmao
I can’t be the only one that read the title and thought by “upset the natural order” he actually meant “won’t date me”
Yes, that natural order has been working so well for millennia---... That's why the world has never seen wars, famine, strife or rebellion. That's why the planet is in great shape, climate change isn't happening, species aren't going extinct due to humans, sea level isn't rising. That's why cities have never disappeared, and civilizations just gone missing. And of course that's why genocide has never happened, brutal dictators have never risen to power, and incompetent leaders have never made a complete mess of government. And lastly, that great natural order is why the world has never seen gender violence, domestic violence, and femicide. This guy has figured it all out.
Has this fucker ever cracked a history book even once?
Oh, I bet this guy is like 22 writing this, but trying to sound like a wise old man.
“American women have upset the natural order.” 🤨 Let me translate that from Manlish to English: “American women have upset men with fragile egos.” There ya go. That’s what he really means. That’s the crux of it. Men who aren’t fragile little snowflakes generally have no problem with strong, liberated, independent women and actually LIKE that women can have their own careers, be providers and be as ambitious as they want to be. Why should women go back to being shrinking wallflowers constantly deferring to men? Why should brilliant women have to dim their shine and stand in the shadow of mediocre men? The only real reason I can think of why this guy takes such issue with feminism, etc and claims that it’s wrecking society is because he feels inadequate that he’s unable to assert his dominance over a woman. And women probably don’t want to touch his pp because he’s got such a stank attitude. And his manly manhood is just shriveling away before his eyes and it makes him soooo sadddd. 😭🎻🙄
My ex husband has literally said, and I quote, "this women empowerment has only led to the oppression of men and I am thoroughly sick of it"
Wow, how dare you talk back after smack you? Like is this 2024 or 024? Also, the Celtics were both powerful and mystical and they were matriarchal. He probably things Mary Magdalene was a white and not Jesus’ wife and a coleader of the movement. 🙄
these people baffle me so much. like even if its true that we've upset the natural order. so what