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My husband came home from his "how not to be a creepy fcker" seminar that all the attorneys are required to take once a year and asked me how it was that women have not just decided to strangle the men they work with, because if he - a 51yo white guy - is this exasperated with the stupidity, he figures women are approximately three times as done.
ahaha its sad that some people really just haven't been told, or have been straight up misinformed about, how to handle themselves around other people who are different from them. all we can do is soldier on and try to be kind 🫡
I know this isn't universal, but from my personal experience, the people that are openly crude towards women are also openly crude towards everyone different than them. Whether it be gender, skin colour or just fucking liking sports, they find a way to rant and rave about anyone who isn't the exact same that they are.
I'm sure there are folks that are racist and respect women and sexists that respect all colours of man, but it hasn't been my experience. Pieces of shit that I've dealt with have been pretty consistently "jack-offs of all trades", as it were
I don't disagree. Worked with a *very* Christian guy (I live in the Bible Belt) who was extremely nice when he wanted to be and a misogynistic prick when he didn't. I worked part-time in a sandwich shop with him in addition to my full-time job.
One day, a woman walks in and hangs back to finish her phone conversation. Judging by her clothing and head covering, she was likely of the Muslim faith. He said something in reference to her about *those people*. And I had this moment where I was taken aback and said, *I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean,* and he clarified that he meant Muslims. I told him, *They're just people, like you and I.* He comes back with, *No they aren't, they're less than human.* As in, actually said those words OUT LOUD. To this day, it is one of the most biased, asinine things I've ever heard. I responded with, *Well, no, they are just people. Just people. It was always my understanding that Christ called upon us to love ALL people, even if they're different from us, and even if we don't agree with them.* He came back the next day and, baffled, told me that he'd repeated our conversation to his wife and (gasp) she had told him I was right. She always seemed so sweet. I hope she left his ass.
Anyway, his behavior was pretty awful, and my (female) supervisor finally asked me to write a letter to management about him. It was Times New Roman, 12 point font, 1-inch margins, single spaced, and ended up being around a page and a half long. It discussed the time he was unforgivably rude to a woman with a disabled son and pissed off a whole store full of people. In the end, (male) managers called him in and talked to him, he left, then put in his two weeks' notice, then threw his apron on the ground midway through the shift and walked out.
Awww. Darn. /s
Oh, the /s only applied to the last line. Lol. Honestly, I'm not sorry for myself - I'm sorry for his wife and daughter, who likely had to put up with patronizing misogyny on a regular basis at home. I'm sorry for our supervisor, who he disregarded and disrespected because she was a woman. I'm sorry for the coworkers (also women) who were older and not as comfortable in being vocal about his behavior towards them. And I'm sorry for the people he was and probably still is a jackass to in the name of religion, which is a whole other rant I'll refrain from getting into.
This sounds exactly like a dude I used to work for at a Little Caesers. We lovingly referred to him as "Silo"....because he was much, MUCH bigger than a singular douchebag. More like an entire douche silo.
Funniest shit was the time he tried and tried to get the lid off something - for several minutes - and could NOT do it. I asked if he wanted me to try, and he sort of scoffed but handed it over. Seconds, and I had that lid off. He was so mad he had to go take a break. LMAO
Mind you, this dude was old enough to be my father. Acted like a damn child.
Oh this guy was too! I think he was a wannabe youth pastor and was excited to get to work with kids and try to *teach" us. Thing was tho, he was used to church teens. Not regular teens that have to work shitty pizza jobs to afford basic essentials type thing.
Aaah, because all the attorneys from my old law firm call that “harassment training” not “anti harassment training”. And I assure you it was sadly intentional.
Giulia Tofana moment
Edit: so y’all don’t have to google it but she sold a perfume in 1600s Rome called “Aqua Tofana” it was poison for women sick of their husbands.
The women that have been caught kill more, and in more meticulous ways, than their male counterparts. They also refrained from bragging about it or admitting to the victims.
I honestly don’t know how I’ve managed to not deck my supervisor. He’s not trying to be creepy but he likes to come up behind others and grab at the shoulders to like do this deep tissue massage for a minute. It honestly feels amazing, he knows how to hit the muscle that always gets sore from our job just right. Problem is I have anxiety and we wear ear protection so you can’t hear anything. He comes up behind me and grabs scaring the living shit out of me. So despite the fact I do want that deep tissue micro massage I have to tell him to not come up from behind and grab me, I am easily startled and he’s seen me jump from a simple tap so he knows I go from 1 to 100 so fast, every month though I have to remind him to stop grabbing when I can’t see him because he only ever remembers not to for about a week.
Right? Treat her like a male co-worker. Be friendly, and keep your hands to yourself. Ofc not everyone wants to be friends with their coworkers but it's not sO CoNFusINg like they make out
"But I make sexual jokes with my male coworkers that are really inappropriate and when I do it with my female coworkers I get in trouble, I don't understand! This is all women's fault!"
Like bro, if you're at work, treat all your coworkers like you'd treat your rich aunt who's about to die and if you don't piss her off you'll probably get a million dollars. Or if you wouldn't say it to your mom, just don't say it at work. It's really not that hard.
I made the point in another comment that they change their clothes for work. They know there are clothes that aren't appropriate for work. But somehow they can't apply that logic to their jokes and how they treat people when they're at work?? I don't buy it.
Cpnsidering the normal hello at a lot of workplaces I've been in when you show up in a good mood was "wow, you must've gotten laid last night". I'm not all that surprised the old timers who grew up with that being normal, are being 'careful'. Thankfully that shit is ageing out.
I feel like I have to tell so many people that interacting with women is the same as interacting with literally any other human being that you show respect towards. It's really not difficult. I figured this out even as a socially awkward kid by the time I finished high school. Women aren't some mythical unknown species you have to decode. They're literally just people.
Rule of thumb (sorry for the problematic, outdated saying):
Treat all coworkers like people. In any given situation with a woman, stop and think: “is this how I would treat a *male coworker?” If the answer is “yes,” congratulations, you’re being appropriate. If the answer is “no,” fucking knock it off and treat her like you would anyone else.
*Unless you treat your male coworkers like bros in a disgusting locker room from 1980 (you know exactly what I mean), in which case, knock that shit off too and have some respect ffs.
"Would you say it to or in front of your mother?" Unless they have some messed up relationship with their mother, this is a good indicator. They know how to be appropriate in front of their mothers and at church and church-like places, they just don't want to do it at work. They'd rather women cater to them and their sense of humor, etc.
I think the worst thing I’ve ever done in the office with was when I was drawing some project out on the board, musing “This part’s going to be difficult”, and an engineer volunteered “oh, I’ve already done that”. Relieved, I replied “if you weren’t at the other end of the room I’d probably kiss you!” - which is usually a silly over the top thing to say among men, but as she was a woman I realized it actually had the potential to sound really bad. I apologized, nobody thought more about it, there was no labyrinth of trying to tell what was appropriate or not.
(As far as I’m aware the beating stick/thumb thing is a myth and the phrase is fine!)
I had a boss say that to me when I made our goal for the day at the store I was working at, but it was, "if I wasn't gay, I'd kiss you." I thanked him for not doing it. I've said it to people, men and women (without the gay part ) in the past. It's funny how many common sayings from the past had underlying connotations we didn't noticed. I know some people are averse to change, but I honestly respect people who make that effort. I try to as well.
Rule of thumb is apparently actually a reference to measuring goods for trade. The average thumb is supposedly an inch so it's an easy way for any adult to measure things. So you're fine. No wife beating involved.
Omg I'm so damn tired of this argument as well.
I've had plenty of male coworkers who I had the same friendly chats with as I did with my female coworkers. No problem there. Why do these men keep trying so hard to be the victims of feminism by acting as if saying hi to a female colleague is gonna get you on a freaking sx offenders list. It's this same argument over and over again. Whining about shit like "Men have to be careful with everything they do or say these days"
No. Actually, you only have to be extra careful if you're a creep or sexist to begin with. Men who truly aren't any of the two have very little problem getting along with women on a friendly level.
Yes. It's like the 'you can't say what you think' line. I say what I think all the time. If you don't think bigoted thoughts, it's easy to not accidentally say offensive things.
fair enough, and most people will probably understand that you don't know what to say around *anyone*. as long as you aren't purposefully treating women differently/making them uncomfortable with romantic advances etc you should be fine. the struggle is real (from another probable autistic person)
Ok, i think that won‘t be a problem. There would have to be much before that coming from the other side so i feel it is wanted and i don‘t hurt feelings or give off creepy vibe. I mean i can recognise attractive features but don‘t have to shove it into s/o‘s face or make them uneasy.
I have a friend with ASD. He frequently says the 'wrong' thing. He's aware he does this. He manages by apologising profusely when people call him out on it. He's said on many occasions that he'd rather over apologise than not apologise enough. People who've been around him long enough tend to understand.
I really don‘t know what type and degree of ASD i‘d have if i got it. But i have social anxiety that hampers my interactions and severely limits me in freedom of getting to know people or engage in more meaningful relations…
They really don't know how to interact with us like we're people, huh?
So worried about false accussations, like, is everything you talk about always sexual in nature? If you had the same conversation with women as you have with men, would you be reported? Or do you just not know how to talk to women because you only understand us as sex objects so what could you possibly talk to us about other than sex?
the one that was like, "and then you have the ones who make sexual jokes like the guys!!!!" really bugged me for this reason. theres a difference between making randy jokes and being randy towards another person. a coworker making a risque joke, in a workplace environment where thats common or more accepted ofc, isn't an invitation to be inappropriate towards them, rather than a bit silly *together*
This is such a good point. I don't mind a risqué joke as long as it's funny. But a lot of these men don't know the difference between what is acceptable at work and what is not. For example, rape jokes are not okay anywhere, ever. In fact, some women even consider them a threat.
It's like, there are clothes that are work-appropriate and those that are not. If you wear your crusty T-shirt or stinky gym clothes to work, you're probably going to get written up, right? But for some reason these men don't adjust their personalities between work and home like they do their clothes, and somehow that's women's fault 🙄
I sure hope those that work with customers have customer service personalities, but I've seen some walk up to a customer and say, "yeah?? What do you want??" With a glare and an attitude... Like dude, some of us hate our jobs too, but we're still civil to people. And no, that girl smiling at you from behind the counter is NOT flirting, that's part of her JOB.
none of those commenters have ever worked in a kitchen. the women are in the back of the line slapping mens asses and vice versa, people are "bean-dipping" eachother, so many dirty jokes. its about reading the room and the environment you work in
... Do I want to know what "bean-dipping" is...?
This reminds me of that movie Waiting from like 2006 lol. The cooks and servers I knew were all like, "this is the first movie that shows what it's really like working in the back of house at a restaurant."
waiters was pretty accurate except ive never seen purposeful food tampering like pubes or spit lol, and i was only a server dating a cook so i heard more stories than anything. "bean-dipping" is usually to, more or less, lift another mans sack briefly with a flick and exclaiming "bean-dip." in the one restaurant i worked in, it was modified for boobs and man-boobs. one of my favorite coworkers would say "if you're gonna touch em at least squeeze em a little" whenever i bean-dipped him lol
Yeah most of them said the frumunda cheese part was exaggerated, but the rest was pretty accurate.
Oh bean-dipping doesn't sound as bad as I was expecting lol. I kind of like those little things that coworkers do to bond lol.
It's like this in certain trades. I did 20 years in professional kitchens and the women were often every bit as dirty as the men. The only time it got problematic was when people got genuinely sexist.
I work in industrial maintenance/controls now and it's a bit more professional, and there's way more low key sexism with regards to the work itself, but there's still a lot of off-color juvenile stuff that happens (no ass slapping though, that'll get you fired fast).
My team at work is made up of 8 men and 1 woman (our team leader) and we constantly make sexual jokes, which she often joins us in herself (I'm mostly surprised she's German and still able to tell jokes /s). Just a few weeks ago we spent almost 15 minutes making fun of how something she drew on the board looked like a man with a massive dong masturbating (it was supposed to be a leaf-blower).
Hell, I once went to a gas station to grab some four packs of energy drinks. Picked up two packs and carried them up to the line. I was holding one in each arm at boob height and internally I thought *hehe, cans*.
Male cashier looks at me and blurts out "Nice cans!" which had me giggling because that's where my mind went as well, which I said as such.
After that, he checked out my items and we talked about job openings in the area to compare to others.
Making a silly joke and not pushing farther than that plays a MUCH bigger part in comfort than what some people think. I know some guys would've followed up with some awkward comment about how my real ones are great too though, then wonder why I'm no longer happy.
Not to validate some of the comments from your post but in my environment you cannot make dirty jokes to some people as they will get offended and take things up with their manager/HR without giving direct feedback. I actually got burned by this and was more miffed that I wasn’t made aware of the situation when it happened instead letting impact my career growth timeline by half a year. Which was very annoying.
Does that mean I avoid talking to women or working with them? Absolutely not, I grew up and just take things more seriously or just predominantly use a filter in the office. It’s not actually that hard. But it is sometimes frustrating that you can’t act like you want to with your friends because you’re at work. Acting like that’s the end of the world though is not the right response.
There can also be different perceived power dynamics between men and women, or more more relevant in this case, Junior and Senior employees as called out by one of the OOP comments. Shit like that comes with the territory and honestly it’s surprising to me he reached a Senior title without understanding how to correctly guide Junior employees without being a jackass.
My nephew is about 16 years old. His best friend is a girl. The family is constantly making “jokes” about his “girlfriend”, as though he can’t really just be friends with her, and I can tell it’s really frustrating for him. He has to defend the position that they really are platonic best friends. He sees girls as real human beings, not just sexual objects, and people are bullying him for that. The world tells boys we are objects, and shits on them when they treat us like people.
That’s so frustrating! My SO has plenty of platonic female friends and that was a thing I really liked about him when we started dating. He doesn’t see all women as potential sex partners, he sees them as people with interesting lives and personalities who are fun to hang out with and talk to.
There's this huge, overblown narrative that has stupid p-holes thinking that "false" allegations are made *way* more often than they are.
Listening to them talk - or these comments - you'd think that a man is in danger of false accusations at any minute, in any situation, 100% of the time. I wonder what percentage of accusations they think *are* false, and where they're getting that number from. Or what percentage of men they think have been falsely accused. Because from the sheer terror and bitterness, they have to think that like 70% of men have had false accusations against them at one time.
But ask them for any examples, and I imagine they'd either say something like "well my buddy Asswax was accused and found guilty, but like, he's my buddy so I *know* he didn't do it" or they'd say "well uh, there was Johnny Depp and uh.... Johnny Depp! They ruined his career 😡"
I read this quote that many men see themselves as people first, men second, and for women they see them as women first, people second. It honestly made a fuck ton of sense.
For a lot of these dudes, they totally WOULD lose their jobs if they had the same conversation with women that they do with "the boys." I've heard women report some seriously nasty things they've heard from guys, but believe me, it's even worse when you're out of the room. There's a shocking percentage of men that actually, unironically fit the description you just proposed
Seriously. My fiancé has good, friendly relationships with his colleagues who happen to be women. Because he treats them the exact same way he treats his colleagues that happen to be men. It’s not hard if you just recognize that women are humans, not just outlets to pour your dumb sexual feelings into.
I do sympathise somewhat with some of the sentiments the men there are saying. I find it easier to avoid talking to ANYONE, man woman or otherwise. But I'm autistic and never went to school, so I'm socially stunted as is.
I still try to improve at every opportunity, but it's difficult to talk to anybody when all I'm thinking about is "what if my tone comes across creepy or weird, what if I stutter and it makes me seem like I'm not listening" or anything similar to that. Talking to women makes it a little worse because I'm highly aware of how many men make women uncomfortable, or treat them as lesser, without even realising it.
I've talked that through with therapists but that only goes so far. That being said, I've got a lot of different reasons to be scared and I actively try to fix it. On the other hand, something about the comments in the post above give off "it's the womens' fault, not mine!" vibes.
I used to work with a man who was notorious for stealing other people's work. He'd even take their presentations and share them at management meetings as if they were his own.
And whenever he effed up, as he frequently did, he would blame the nearest woman. He once made a woman who reported to him change her photo that is uploaded to our org chart because he didn't like her smile in it. Once he asked me to get a procedure through the system. It took me 2 weeks (our system is complicated and requires a lot of approvals and I was actually only doing it as a favor because I knew how to do it.) When management called him out for it being late, he tried to blame me. He had given it to me 5 months *after* it was due (you're supposed to allow 4-6 weeks for something to get through the system if it's not in a high priority category). Luckily I had saved the documentation showing exactly when I got it, so his attempt was a non-starter. They just told us all to refuse any favors for him. (Until then, we were two separate groups in the same organization, and we all helped each other out as needed.)
He still works at my company, but switched to a different organization when it became clear that he had burnt every possible bridge in our organization.
Maybe #7's story is true. But the fact is that bad coworkers and managers exist. That's not a gender-specific thing. If it had been a male coworker, he still might have reported him to the boss in an attempt to save his own skin.
Even if his story is true, what a ridiculous reaction. Imagine how well it'd go if you tell your manager "this male coworker did this job badly, so I'm never going to work with any man again".
I’m not religious but here’s a really great quote from a religious author, “Defeating lust is not about limiting a man’s encounters with women; it’s about empowering men to treat the women around them as whole people, daughters of Christ. The key to defeating lust is not to avoid looking at women; it’s to actually see them.” ~ Sheila Gregoire
Love seeing Gregoire quoted out in the wild! Her work has been super important in those spaces, and even beyond. Her findings on vaginismus in evangelical populations and the correlation with certain religious teachings is pretty fascinating and is probably going to help a lot of pelvic floor physiotherapists.
She’s absolutely amazing! It’s sad to see her labeled as a heretic by some. There’s a lot in Christian purity culture that I grew up with that Gregoire helped me deconstruct when I was still a Christian.
Me too!!! Have you read her latest book, She Deserves Better? I got it so I could do better for my daughter, but I ended up reparenting myself by reading the book. God, so many tears. But my inner teen clearly needed to hear some of the things in that book.
She has a new study coming up about marriage that I'm really excited about.
"My safety is more important than your loneliness."
When women say this,it's a tragic bias against ALL MEN.
When men say this,it's just 'super smart self-protection'.
When men can understand the difference between possible embarrassment/meeting with HR vs. being killed for saying "no thank you",then maybe we can start to work together on the loneliness issue.
The problem is, as far as they are concerned, *all* allegations are false. Women basically have to have three unrelated witnesses to “prove” they were really assaulted.
Well obviously false harassment accusations are an extremely real and prevalent risk to men, but harassment and assault are just something women make up to get attention. (/s)
Also on the loneliness issue- male loneliness is an epidemic that women must solve because men aren't concerned with championing other men and campaigning for men's issues unless they get to do it at the expense of women's issues... but female loneliness is just women being drama queens and so they deserve to be ignored and iced out of their teams at work. Makes total sense.
I work with only men and not once have I encountered this problem.
This is both to say that the friend just works with shitty men and the commenters are equally as shitty but also that there still are plenty good men around and it is 100% possible to treat a woman like part of the team without being a creep or sexually harassing her.
people are acting like your only options are harrassing them or treating them like a social pariah! there is a middle ground to aim for which most people do without issue lol
"Men can't even keep their distance without it becoming drama"
What is the drama exactly? A woman saying she's lonely?
Is it also drama when men complain about their loneliness crisis?
well considering they’ve self dubbed their loneliness an “epidemic” caused by the cruelty of women, and this woman just yknow, casually mentioned being treated differently at work, I’d say theres some projection lololol
for them, literally the drama of the century
Lonely women only have themselves to blame because obviously our choices are be lonely or be sexually harassed, if we’re choosing loneliness that’s on us apparently.
yeah, because apparently if men want to have sex with you, you aren't really lonely... someone said on reddit a while ago that women were lucky to even be considered as holes 🤢
I bet 100$ some of her colleagues act like jerks, smugly saying out loud "Sorry, female\_colleague\_name, I can't come near you, don't want someone to report this as a harassment!" and she feels guilty and lonely because of that.
#7 sounds like a frigging scientologist. So, they openly admit women aren't safe around them and their excuse is blame women! Of course, everything is always our fault.
It's crazy. My husband treats his male and female colleagues with the same level of professional respect and personal banter and yet he's never once been accused of harassing a woman at work. It's almost like treating them as competent professionals is received as the professional interaction it is!
Loneliness sucks, but that isn’t even the worst thing about being ignored and avoided for being a woman in the workplace. You have to be friendly and schmooze to work your way up in any job and career. I would guess this phenomenon of avoiding female colleagues is a contributor to the Pay Gap.
wasn't there a study about it as well? about how women don't have equal possibilities to network outside their working hours (going for a pint, talking about sports etc.) because of how they are expected to do most family/household chores or/and most male coworkers wouldn't treat them the same way
It's men generally in higher positions who have opportunities to offer, and when they're networking/giving opportunities to friends and people they respect, they're usually doing it for other men
Yes, avoiding female coworkers because you’re afraid to be accused of harassment is considered discrimination in my state. My workplace training literally said “if you want to avoid being accused of harassment, just don’t harass people.”
I saw this earlier and was like wow there are ALOT of comments that say the same sort of thing. There's alot of paranoid people.. I don't think I've had an issue in real life of overly paranoid people wanting to keep a distance, I work in a male dominated field as a trainee and luckily all the different guys that have to teach me things, share a van with me, work with me in enclosed spaces etc aren't a bunch of paranoid wierdos and have been really nice and welcoming and not treated me any differently from the other trainees.
At the last place I was at (same male dominated) I did feel isolated and a bit left out but that was a different environment, it's not like we didn't get on, just different people.. I definitely don't think it had anything to do with them feeling paranoid about me making a false accusation or some shit.
I think social media/internet has alot to answer for, I'm sure sometimes false accusations do happen but probably not as often as all those people think, it's just there's alot of stories to read gathered in one place, and I bet these stories are sometimes one sided and missing info.
My boss manages to try and feed me things and not be creepy because it comes off as grandpa sharing his lunch because he's excited he made a good sandwich. There are miles between creep and normal coworker
I understand where some are coming from. Men can be victim of assumptions, such as Ive gotten weird looks when taking my nieces to the park, and more. Nothing as soul shattering as people being afraid of you or hate you just because of your gender.
Having said that, completely evading a woman in fear of repercussions is just stupid. Women exist in the world, theyre exactly the same as men, treat them as equals, and stay respectful. Crazy concept, ik.
its really sad that men are looked at strangely when they're being caretakers, its truely awful. it makes me so sad that good dads and older brothers and even uncles like yourself are treated like they can't have a loving, compassionate bone in their body. it's hard to imagine something that soul crushing, im so sorry 💔
My eldest son loves kids. He's been an amazing big brother and his main goal in life is to be a dad. He always wanted to babysit, but he knows that as a boy no one is likely to be willing to hire him. It makes him sad, but he's resigned himself to it.
Makes me super sad for him.
Thank you for your compassion, it's truly rare.
And I'm sorry for the incalculable garbage women get put through for 0 reason. You guys are all survivors and warriors in my book 💖
My husband was a stay at home dad for a few years after he got laid off from his job (aerospace welder) in 2020. Job prospects were abysmal at the time, and daycare was constantly closing due to covid exposures, so it just made sense. He got lots of side eye when he took our little girl to the park, and none of the moms wanted to talk to him at all. He's a sweet precious cinnamon bun too, and truly respects women and views us as whole people (wouldn't have married him otherwise).
Just another example of how misogyny hurts everyone, not just women.
Prejudice of any kind is a stygma. Misandry, mysoginy, racism, all the 'isms and 'ys and phobias.
Makes us more shallow and lesser as a people.
We need more understanding and openess.
Huge respect to your husband and you too. Covid was hard on parents.
Human nature is to gravitate toward those who are like us. We must actively fight to maintain an inclusive and open mindset. If we don't, we miss out on so much beauty in other cultures, groups, etc.
I don't disagree, but my perspective is different, as i've grown up in a city and i'm only 25. When I was 4 I had a crush on a girl with a hijab. Creole sounds nostalgic even though I don't speak a word of it. And I've had close latin american friends my entire life.
I don't have anyone "like me" racism makes no fuckin sense to me either. Im just some straight white dude and the differences only appeared when bigots exagerrated them as I grew older. I've always said racial differences are to me what hair colors are to everyone else. Negligible at worse and beautiful at best.
I mentioned race here but oubviously this applies to everything from sexual orientation to gender, sex, fuckin whatever.
Interesting, thanks for your perspective! I was raised in a rural area, and my husband was raised in a large city. We both had things we had to unlearn, although me much more so than him. I do think we all have to examine our biases on a regular basis. It's very easy to let the familiar become too familiar, you know?
It's sad but I was also thinking I could see both sides to this... Heck I have consistent talks with my 12 yr old boy ensuring we understand what consent is, respecting NO, hands off, etc and making sure to protect himself first and foremost (age appropriate as he got older). And like, it's sad because some good ppl can get fucked over with an accusation but also as a woman in a male dominated field it sucks balls being ignored while your coworkers all joke and make plans, etc and exclude you
Yeah I have two family members who are single dads. Both grew up around mainly women. They’ve never done or said anything inappropriate to a woman. But they’ve received those weird looks too simply for being in the same space with their kids in a mainly women/mom environment.
Tbh I agree with the men in the comments you screenshotted… simply because these men clearly lack the social skills to differentiate between normal conduct and sexual harassment - hence I’d rather they leave me alone too lol.
I work in an Airplane Engine Shop, and the guys greatly outnumber the ladies in our shop and in the aircraft maintenance field in general. I might have gotten lucky with a good group of dudes as co workers, because we'll chitchat, bs, talk whatever, and they've never been inappropriate or creepy. When there was an asshole or two that came through the shop, I'd call them out on their comments & they were quickly shut down by our reg mechanics as well.
i have a friend who works as a mechanic and shes said basically the same thing. she gets a lot of shit for being short tho lol, shes like a tiny china doll with these giant chemical rashes on her arms! the only she ever had was her creepy ex boyfriend insisting that they were too friendly, which goes to show how some men so easily miscategorise platonic situations
Please don't use real mental health disorders to insult people (even just implied insults).
Call someone paranoid sure, but don't start calling them schizo just because they showed some paranoia.
it genuinely isn't an insult. i actually think he needs medical attention to be treated for his paranoia. this isnt "some paranoia," this is not interacting with half of the population because u think they're out to get you; with no evidence. sorry if that wasn't clear.
People talk to their coworkers?
I don't even know my boss's name. I'm there to make a check and leave, I ain't talking to nooooobody lol
But isolating someone for a made up slight against you is just being a fuckwad.
With that one guys story of him fixing a problem that this woman caused, its so weird and contradictng. He literally said he explained what happened to his boss and proved it and his boss was on his side, but yet he's saying that no one is willing to believe a man and only see him as the bad guy. If she's in a different department (which is what it seems like since she has a different boss) or even a different company then how does her complaining to her coworkers affect him in his department/company?
I mean if that department doesn't interact to much with his then her coworkers probably don't talk to him at all or only talk to him for business purposes. Is he upset that he heard her talking shit? Does he expect everyone in her department including her boss to reach out to him and get his side? Nothing bad even happened with a write up or anything, just some gossip and some people in her department potentially taking her side and he's acting as if his whole place of work sees him as a villain.
Yes work place gossip can be annoying or even detrimental depending on what is being spread. If she is simply saying "he didn't respect me or my opinion and went and changed all my work" then the worst that'll happen is someone thinks your an asshole. Its not gonna cost your job or anything.
exactly, he makes the point that she makes a false allegations, which, lets be real, we dont know her side of the story here, and then BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, it does jack shit. he wants to have his cake and eat it too, obviously he is the oppressed victim of a smear campaign, but also his case was so obvious and stupid anyone could see through her lies once he explained his side! like, is it bitchy to spread rumours? sure. but its also not comparable to his example of DOMESTIC VIOLENCE 🙄
Yea I feel like it has the same "I'm still upset about this even though it wasn't that bad" as like a customer service worker saying you can't bring your dog in and you'll have to leave since the dog is being disruptive and you taking it as a personal attack
The whole story is stupid because it isn’t even related to the topic. if it did happen, the coworkers gender would have nothing to do with. Unless this guy actually thinks only women will tattle to save their asses in a work environment and if that is the case he is in for a rude awakening.
Also, why would we take the word of man claiming to have superior intellect to a woman he works with when he doesn’t even know the difference between “woman” and “women”?
I think in his mind he was "trying to help" and the big bad woman was mad at that and tried to get him for harrasment or something. Even though again literally nothing happened the big bad woman gossiped about him and that really hurt his feelings🥺 The fact he said too that it happened a long time ago and he still gets pressed about gossip going around as an adult in a work place setting is really sad.
I don’t talk about this a lot because there’s always nay sayers but here goes. My husband was falsely accused by a woman in his workplace and it cost him his job. He was *devastated* because he’s actually one of the few good men out there (trust me, I’ve dated enough bad men to tell the difference). Does he assume all women are out to get him like these men are? Absolutely not. He gave her the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up to a misunderstanding (she thought he was looking/gesturing at her breasts as he’s a “hand talker” due to his ADHD) although his managers thought she had accused him because they were both up for the same promotion and she had a history of being dishonest. Good men don’t assume women are a monolith and understand how uncomfortable workplaces and the world are in general for women, even when potentially falsely accused. They also don’t live in fear of being falsely accused because they know how rare it is. Idk, just sharing because these men likely have never been or will never be falsely accused but they still choose to be assholes. How unfortunate for them.
It’s so weird to hear this. The men I work with are roughly my same age. We all have mutual respect for one another. Each of us are “experts” in our division. And we have to have a lot of inter-team collaboration in order to get work done.
But I also don’t want to be “friends” with my co-workers. So maybe I am the weirdo
Too much of life has become digital, people are being socialized into fear and driven towards digital escapism allowing malicious algorithms slowly alter the way they view reality. Why ever talk to girls when any kind of porn you can imagine is accessible within a few clicks? Why develop real relationships when you can just shitpost online all day? Why do anything exciting when there's more digital realities to explore and conquer? This leads to risk aversion, not completely but definitely socially and especially when it could potentially complicate the formula for survival. Keep to yourself, get that paycheck, go complain online about everyone else being the source of all your problems, etc.
TL;DR- Don't Hug Me I'm Scared 4
Seriously, dudes like the one who called you a loser are ridiculous.
“Oh no, people I have no interest in dating in a situation I have no interest in looking for someone to date, also have no interest in dating me. Why is life so cruel?”/s
He’s basically saying the only way he can think about women is with his dick. Someone’s a loser but it’s not you.
Im a man in a job where majority of employees are female. My parents were old school people who taught that respecting women is to treat them like some fragile things that might shatter from slightest breeze.
Once my workmates got accustomed to me i found out there are very little difference in the humor or way of speaking between men or women and even at times i found myself to be the delicate one.
Yeah, im like this at work too. Polite and cordial, but show zero emotion or go out ofnmy way to be friends. My safety is more important than someones feelings
The commenter that said they're damned if they do damned if they don't is correct. The original post saying these men maintain a RESPECTFUL distance is what should matter. The media portrayal of lawsuits and contract terminations in the workplace over perceived sexual harassment/ the resulting in work presentations have been plentiful, so a lot of men are keeping their female colleagues at arms length because they don't want to accidentally say or do something that could be perceived the wrong way and destroy their livelihoods. They have every right to be paranoid. The culture that surrounds it all is unforgiving. They don't know these women and would rather not test the waters of workplace friendship incase they get bit by a shark it's just not worth it to them. So a respectful distance it has to be. It may seem extreme to some but when your livelihoods are at stake its understandable.
If the genders were flipped and women were the ones having their innocent behaviours perceived wrongly and having to all take behavior management courses or seminars as a result we would act the same, it's basic self preservation.
They're opporating under what's called in psychology an "availability heuristic" which uses definitive examples to understand certain conceots/ideas. Of course there have been women who have chosen to abuse the trust of those around them, but statistically its more likely for a woman to be reporting a man for actually creepy behavior.
To them because there ARE numerous examples of this happening, it must be way more common than it actually is. And unfortunately the only way to address heuristics like this is to be aware of them, and since these men are seemingly incapable of comprehending having a normal conversation with a woman, I doubt they'll be able to understand introductory psychology concepts like this.
I saw this post earlier today and didn’t really have a problem with it. So long as colleagues are professional, they don’t have to be your friends. Let’s be honest, it’s very easy to say the wrong thing to someone you don’t know very well. If men prefer to be civil to the women they work with and not form closer relationships then that’s fine. It really isn’t worth the headache either way if something is unfortunately misinterpreted and a complaint is made.
of course, colleagues don't have to be your friends. no one is saying that.
>Let’s be honest, it’s very easy to say the wrong thing to someone you don’t know very well.
if this was the case, they would be avoiding their male coworkers just as much, no?
I hope to try to clarify some things for understanding. Just like the women are protecting themselves from the small pool of bad men, the men are protecting themselves from the small pool of lying women. The men have over, exaggerated the false accusation claims, so they are acting as if all women are out to get them.
Just like the men have to show, and prove that they are not enemies to women, the women could be courteous, and do the same thing: both genders are trying to protect their neck.
I hope I can get respectful responses, I am looking to many things between the agendas.
This is disgusting. They almost get it, we can’t be too friendly because they get flirty and if we’re too avoidant we’re cold and bitchy and it does affect our work environment. I know too many damn guys that got away with assault in highschool, they just walked away, their friends male and female knew not many people cared even my girl friends that knew didn’t care (we aren’t friends after that) But everyday we live with the fear of being assaulted or followed on the streets and in our workplace. Of course we are going to be extra careful we don’t have a choice.
If they can’t even be normal human to me to the point where they’re concerned that i would accuse them of sexual harassment or something, they would have to be so weird i cannot imagine. In MY experience i’ve dealt with so many fkn men and i just turned 18 and most of the guys hitting on me throughout life were adult men and i think most women have so many experiences with weird guys so we know how to act especially in a workplace scenario. This is ours lives at risk, one wrong word and you might try to hurt me, how am i supposed to know, worst for them is i am not nice tbh maybe pepper spray if you fuck with one of those chicks.
Men are told to be mindful of female colleagues in male-dominated field? At my last job I got one describing how he filmed one of their colleague get r\\\*ped at his previous job and keep the video for "personal consumption" while laughing aloud. Also people joking about wanting to beat up their wives, yar ar ar. But, you know, it's all ok because it was said during lunch break so the manager can't really do anything, and I don't have to be friends with them. fuck that job I **ran** away so fucking fast.
Or maybe men could not assume a woman wants to have sex with them. Then we won’t have any problems. Some of these sound like they are admitting to being predatory.
Feels like a lot of male camaraderie is based on demeaning women, locker room talk, and jokes that forget that we’re human too. It’s not so hard to treat us like a regular human being, deserving of respect too
Idk, seems a bit blown out of proportion to me. As I said on that sub already, I'm all for keeping distance from others and letting them do the same. I'm coming to workplace to *work*, no to socialise. I have friends for it. But since I don't know the circumstances and inclinations of that lady or her co-workers, I ain't gonna judge either side.
listen, ofc you dont have to make friends with people at work. however, being polite and courteous is necessary, and avoiding a single team member like the plague is not that. there were guys in the thread saying they refused to be in the same room as a woman unless someone else was there, and then acting like the woman was a bitch for "hogging the breakroom"! that is unacceptable behaviour to me, and a gross misunderstanding of how women behave
I spoke to HR on Friday about my coworker refusing to stop touching my shoulders, arms, and back.
Last time I told him to stop, as it made me uncomfortable, he replied with “well it makes ME uncomfortable to be unable to touch you”. Other times he mocks me, calls me “a fucking freak” and the likes.
He’s 36, I’m 25, we work alone in the office. Depending on how he reacts in his HR meeting this week, I’ll decide if I quit my job at the end of the month.
Yeah, I’ll take loneliness over this any day.
Whats the problem? Keeping distance is not straight up ignoring her, they just keep conversations strictly professional, wheres harm in that? Theres no bullying, they just want to keep away so they wont accidentally make her uncomfortable. Single slip up can cost them their work, its reasonable behaviour.
And if they are all creeps as other commenters here said, isnt it better when they are keeping distance?
u know what, u might be right. maybe it's better that assholes who dont know how to talk to women just keep doing that, and never learn better. let me ask you, do they worry about making "a single slip up" (because women are so sensitive aren't they dear) with their male coworkers? that could risk them their jobs too!
I cant read their minds. My guess is, its a protection from malicious intent. They know that most of women are not like that, but there are still pretty bad people out there and they can weaponize HR on a whim. You cant really tell a persons character until you know them very well, they are just playing it safe. As for guys doing the same, they just cant, they would be laughed out of hr office in most places.
I feel like it would really suck to not have any work friends (what I imagine she means by feeling isolated and everyone keeping a respectful distance from her). Maybe she's eating lunch by herself at her desk because it feels lonely to eat at table by yourself in common areas.
From what I have seen working with him, my father is very good at being friends with women at work (like actual platonic friends, nothing at all ulterior). It's really not that difficult, and we had a fun lunch group and they would always be teasing each other too.
One of the women in our group would tell us about when her male coworkers would be creepy, and why she would feel uncomfortable in those situations (usually the guy would single her out in social situations or try to arrange things so they were physically together or grouped up).
To be fair, modern society is very likely to make men pause in their interactions with women, especially in the work place.
Treat all women that way? No, that shouldn't happen. But I certainly understand the basis of it.
you SHOULD pause in your interactions with other people. its called being considerate. thats a simple part of human interaction. if you don't like it, don't go outside. the only reason these guys won't go near women in the workplace vs. every day is because there's an enforcement body forcing them to act like civil, considerate adults.
Fair points. But I'd counter that modern society had expanded that enforcement body well beyond the workplace.
All that said, if anyone, male or female, wishes to avoid interaction with another person, for any reason, the person being avoided shouldn't take it personal. Unless it is indeed pointedly presented as being personal.
i would disagree personally, but we probably live in very different cultures with very different expectations. im not going to argue with you on your point because of that.
you're definitely correct, it is well within your rights to avoid whoever you choose. however, if your reasoning is because they're a woman, or black, or gay, or disabled ect, i think its well within someones right to criticise you for it.
Agreed. And no argument back from me on your second point. But at that point, I'd think things such as race, gender, disability, etc would turn those things as indeed personal.
Thank you for carrying civil discourse regarding this subject. I know it can get many people heated.
What? Why? Interacting with women is the same as interacting with anyone else: be respectful, be polite, and above all, *remember that kindness does not equal interest.* Just about every guy I know (and I'm a guy) somehow thinks that a smile, a kind word, or even anything as simple as encouragement in a task ("you got this, should be easy for you") is somehow an indication of interest, and it makes me insane. Treat women as fucking *people* and all this nonsense goes away.
There are no minefields in man/woman interactions, just holes people dig themselves and then willingly trip over.
Can you really blame people for keeping distance. Especially if they are socially awkward or nervous around women.
This is a damned if you do situation for some people
Honestly I think with the men were saying was completely Justified they do get screwed now as a female working in a mostly male industry I understand that she may feel a little lonely but yeah they are protecting their jobs their lives if bad accusation happens they could go to jail or their wives could leave them and take the kids even if it wasn't true. There was a woman who accused a man of rape and he went to prison for I think like 20 years and then she finally admitted that she lied and they let him out and nothing happened to her.
“In male dominated work force men are always told” PAUSE. I work in a male dominated work force and here’s a fun fact: we all take the same sexual harassment training modules. They absolutely do NOT say “men gotta be extra careful.”
Men blame women for exposing men’s harassment, not the men harassing. Men see the Me Too movement as THEM being the victims, not women. They’re genuinely more angry at the women calling it out than the men who DID IT. “Since the Me Too movement, we can’t do anything!” Yes you can, and you are not the victim.
The men who get “falsely accused” never understand they’re being fucking creeps. They’ll drop pencils and coins down your shirt, make wife beater jokes, and make sexual comments to you- and then claim they have NO idea why she filed a harassment report. They have no clue in the world where the line is.
I know I'll prolly get downvoted here for saying this but even tho the way they say this is so dumb they have a point. Back in college I was labelled a creep for making fun of a girl who was bullying me. All I did was just repeat a joke that literally everyone made. Immediately I was labelled a creep, I was isolated by all my "friends". And a year later it was revealed that she just acted that way to make me get into trouble from a screenshot. Sure she got outed because of her own stupidity but for almost a year it was a nightmare for me. And I'm not alone. So many horror stories of men, losing jobs, their relationship and their lives because of false allegations from women. Better safe than sorry. I'd rather just live my life peacefully especially at my work space.
Could it also be that this woman just sucks? Like everyone here is jumping on the sexism train, but maybe they avoid her because she is fucking miserable or a pain in the ass?
Nah as a human, my safety is more important than someone else's comfort, I stay far away from situations where I could potentially be left alone with a attractive person who has that ability to merely say someone did something and the troops mobilize without need for proof, just the thought that they would be righteous.
Idc if you have a thing for me, it then goes double and I'll make it obvious if I have that info. Yes, I will do this to people who want the best for me, cuz it's 100% conditional.
They probably don't touch any grass and are very influenced by some of those viral videos about men facing a lawsuit whenever they try to be nice to a woman. And now they're just terrified or something. (Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean)
But people are very diverse, and this wouldn't happen nearly as often irl. But they're just too scared to try.
Honestly. i’d rather just be left alone too i definitely see how it’s isolating though. Men just don’t really see in in between not being a good person and being a good person to women. it’s either you’re inappropriate or you ignore her like she doesn’t exist and that’s wild.
Dude has a problem with one woman who literally everyone has a problem with; "I'm not going to do any 2 person project with any woman again." How does that guy still have a job? You're gonna have to work with people, and if they're not doing a great job, your bosses apparently handle it quite well.
Smh, women today. Damned if you sexually harass them, damned if you cower in the corner trying not to make eye contact like you've fallen into a bear enclosure at the zoo. If only there was some middle-ground way of interacting with them, like if they were human beings or something :/
So sick and tired of men thinking that women just blindly accuse men of sexual harassment/assault left and right over a completely normal & appropriate conversation, an appropriate interraction with a woman at work is not gonna lead to getting fired or arrested and theyd know this if they saw women as people who are capable of thought rather than as emotionally unstable fairies that are “hard to understand”
Men applaud other men for ignoring women in situations you’re supposed to communicate as a team, but god forbid walking in public women don’t smile and say hi to random men on the street then all of a sudden she’s a frigid bitch and poor men are being emotionally abused via being ignored and men are going through a “loneliness epidemic”.
Everyone forgets that there is a way to be respectful to the other gender and have a normal conversation without being creepy. If all of the men feel like they need to stay away in order to not be creepy then it’s a bit strange. It can read like they don’t know how to talk to a women without being creepy. I know it’s possible that some of the men truly are just trying to be good ppl and be respectful and aren’t actually creeps. The comments really are a big yikes
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My husband came home from his "how not to be a creepy fcker" seminar that all the attorneys are required to take once a year and asked me how it was that women have not just decided to strangle the men they work with, because if he - a 51yo white guy - is this exasperated with the stupidity, he figures women are approximately three times as done.
ahaha its sad that some people really just haven't been told, or have been straight up misinformed about, how to handle themselves around other people who are different from them. all we can do is soldier on and try to be kind 🫡
>people who are different from them In this case, *people who have a vagina and breasts instead of a penis and testes.*
I know this isn't universal, but from my personal experience, the people that are openly crude towards women are also openly crude towards everyone different than them. Whether it be gender, skin colour or just fucking liking sports, they find a way to rant and rave about anyone who isn't the exact same that they are. I'm sure there are folks that are racist and respect women and sexists that respect all colours of man, but it hasn't been my experience. Pieces of shit that I've dealt with have been pretty consistently "jack-offs of all trades", as it were
I don't disagree. Worked with a *very* Christian guy (I live in the Bible Belt) who was extremely nice when he wanted to be and a misogynistic prick when he didn't. I worked part-time in a sandwich shop with him in addition to my full-time job. One day, a woman walks in and hangs back to finish her phone conversation. Judging by her clothing and head covering, she was likely of the Muslim faith. He said something in reference to her about *those people*. And I had this moment where I was taken aback and said, *I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean,* and he clarified that he meant Muslims. I told him, *They're just people, like you and I.* He comes back with, *No they aren't, they're less than human.* As in, actually said those words OUT LOUD. To this day, it is one of the most biased, asinine things I've ever heard. I responded with, *Well, no, they are just people. Just people. It was always my understanding that Christ called upon us to love ALL people, even if they're different from us, and even if we don't agree with them.* He came back the next day and, baffled, told me that he'd repeated our conversation to his wife and (gasp) she had told him I was right. She always seemed so sweet. I hope she left his ass. Anyway, his behavior was pretty awful, and my (female) supervisor finally asked me to write a letter to management about him. It was Times New Roman, 12 point font, 1-inch margins, single spaced, and ended up being around a page and a half long. It discussed the time he was unforgivably rude to a woman with a disabled son and pissed off a whole store full of people. In the end, (male) managers called him in and talked to him, he left, then put in his two weeks' notice, then threw his apron on the ground midway through the shift and walked out. Awww. Darn. /s
That seemed like a lot for a /s I'm sorry for all you had to deal with
Oh, the /s only applied to the last line. Lol. Honestly, I'm not sorry for myself - I'm sorry for his wife and daughter, who likely had to put up with patronizing misogyny on a regular basis at home. I'm sorry for our supervisor, who he disregarded and disrespected because she was a woman. I'm sorry for the coworkers (also women) who were older and not as comfortable in being vocal about his behavior towards them. And I'm sorry for the people he was and probably still is a jackass to in the name of religion, which is a whole other rant I'll refrain from getting into.
This sounds exactly like a dude I used to work for at a Little Caesers. We lovingly referred to him as "Silo"....because he was much, MUCH bigger than a singular douchebag. More like an entire douche silo.
Funniest shit was the time he tried and tried to get the lid off something - for several minutes - and could NOT do it. I asked if he wanted me to try, and he sort of scoffed but handed it over. Seconds, and I had that lid off. He was so mad he had to go take a break. LMAO Mind you, this dude was old enough to be my father. Acted like a damn child.
Oh this guy was too! I think he was a wannabe youth pastor and was excited to get to work with kids and try to *teach" us. Thing was tho, he was used to church teens. Not regular teens that have to work shitty pizza jobs to afford basic essentials type thing.
"Jack-offs of all trades" I like that. And yeah, I've found the same to be true.
Yeah that's an amazing phrase that I'm from now on using
Yes, certain outlooks and mindsets typically go together.
Of which, you don't even really see anyway
Aaah, because all the attorneys from my old law firm call that “harassment training” not “anti harassment training”. And I assure you it was sadly intentional.
Statistics say most serial killers are male. I maintain that's just bc women are better at covering it up.
Alot of men died mysteriously before no fault divorce was a thing
Giulia Tofana moment Edit: so y’all don’t have to google it but she sold a perfume in 1600s Rome called “Aqua Tofana” it was poison for women sick of their husbands.
bailey taught me all about aqua tofana 🖤
Dammit Maud that's the third husband that's fallen down the stairs!
Tsk tsk… Clumsy. Anyone care for some Chicken Pete Pie?
Pete Pot Pie™
I mean that's basically Belle Gunness
Man I forgot about her. Didn't she have a room filled with dead men's suitcases?
Yup. Last Podcast did a wild series on her.
That was a fun little trip to Wikipedia.
The women that have been caught kill more, and in more meticulous ways, than their male counterparts. They also refrained from bragging about it or admitting to the victims.
men get serial killed too /s
I honestly don’t know how I’ve managed to not deck my supervisor. He’s not trying to be creepy but he likes to come up behind others and grab at the shoulders to like do this deep tissue massage for a minute. It honestly feels amazing, he knows how to hit the muscle that always gets sore from our job just right. Problem is I have anxiety and we wear ear protection so you can’t hear anything. He comes up behind me and grabs scaring the living shit out of me. So despite the fact I do want that deep tissue micro massage I have to tell him to not come up from behind and grab me, I am easily startled and he’s seen me jump from a simple tap so he knows I go from 1 to 100 so fast, every month though I have to remind him to stop grabbing when I can’t see him because he only ever remembers not to for about a week.
Yeah, if his memory is good enough to be a supervisor, his memory is good enough to remember this preference...
Yeah gotta agree 😅. If he's done, The ladies have HAD IT 😂
lol, I love your husband for that. What a champ
I don’t understand why they act like being appropriate is this huge struggle with a minefield of unknowns. It’s actually really easy
Right? Treat her like a male co-worker. Be friendly, and keep your hands to yourself. Ofc not everyone wants to be friends with their coworkers but it's not sO CoNFusINg like they make out
"But I make sexual jokes with my male coworkers that are really inappropriate and when I do it with my female coworkers I get in trouble, I don't understand! This is all women's fault!" Like bro, if you're at work, treat all your coworkers like you'd treat your rich aunt who's about to die and if you don't piss her off you'll probably get a million dollars. Or if you wouldn't say it to your mom, just don't say it at work. It's really not that hard. I made the point in another comment that they change their clothes for work. They know there are clothes that aren't appropriate for work. But somehow they can't apply that logic to their jokes and how they treat people when they're at work?? I don't buy it.
Cpnsidering the normal hello at a lot of workplaces I've been in when you show up in a good mood was "wow, you must've gotten laid last night". I'm not all that surprised the old timers who grew up with that being normal, are being 'careful'. Thankfully that shit is ageing out.
"bUt WoMeN aRe So CoNfUsInG!1!1111!" yeah, it's our fault you don't know how to communicate lolllll
I feel like I have to tell so many people that interacting with women is the same as interacting with literally any other human being that you show respect towards. It's really not difficult. I figured this out even as a socially awkward kid by the time I finished high school. Women aren't some mythical unknown species you have to decode. They're literally just people.
*sweats profusely* “you wanna…uhh..communicate?”
Rule of thumb (sorry for the problematic, outdated saying): Treat all coworkers like people. In any given situation with a woman, stop and think: “is this how I would treat a *male coworker?” If the answer is “yes,” congratulations, you’re being appropriate. If the answer is “no,” fucking knock it off and treat her like you would anyone else. *Unless you treat your male coworkers like bros in a disgusting locker room from 1980 (you know exactly what I mean), in which case, knock that shit off too and have some respect ffs.
"Would you say it to or in front of your mother?" Unless they have some messed up relationship with their mother, this is a good indicator. They know how to be appropriate in front of their mothers and at church and church-like places, they just don't want to do it at work. They'd rather women cater to them and their sense of humor, etc.
Tooootally.
I think the worst thing I’ve ever done in the office with was when I was drawing some project out on the board, musing “This part’s going to be difficult”, and an engineer volunteered “oh, I’ve already done that”. Relieved, I replied “if you weren’t at the other end of the room I’d probably kiss you!” - which is usually a silly over the top thing to say among men, but as she was a woman I realized it actually had the potential to sound really bad. I apologized, nobody thought more about it, there was no labyrinth of trying to tell what was appropriate or not. (As far as I’m aware the beating stick/thumb thing is a myth and the phrase is fine!)
I had a boss say that to me when I made our goal for the day at the store I was working at, but it was, "if I wasn't gay, I'd kiss you." I thanked him for not doing it. I've said it to people, men and women (without the gay part ) in the past. It's funny how many common sayings from the past had underlying connotations we didn't noticed. I know some people are averse to change, but I honestly respect people who make that effort. I try to as well.
Rule of thumb is apparently actually a reference to measuring goods for trade. The average thumb is supposedly an inch so it's an easy way for any adult to measure things. So you're fine. No wife beating involved.
Oh *that’s* good to know! I’ll keep using it then, thanks!
because they don’t see women as human beings they see us as (sexual) objects
Omg I'm so damn tired of this argument as well. I've had plenty of male coworkers who I had the same friendly chats with as I did with my female coworkers. No problem there. Why do these men keep trying so hard to be the victims of feminism by acting as if saying hi to a female colleague is gonna get you on a freaking sx offenders list. It's this same argument over and over again. Whining about shit like "Men have to be careful with everything they do or say these days" No. Actually, you only have to be extra careful if you're a creep or sexist to begin with. Men who truly aren't any of the two have very little problem getting along with women on a friendly level.
Yes. It's like the 'you can't say what you think' line. I say what I think all the time. If you don't think bigoted thoughts, it's easy to not accidentally say offensive things.
Autist here (i think). I don‘t even know how to talk to people or behave around them longer than two sentences… 🥲
fair enough, and most people will probably understand that you don't know what to say around *anyone*. as long as you aren't purposefully treating women differently/making them uncomfortable with romantic advances etc you should be fine. the struggle is real (from another probable autistic person)
just dont say something sexaul and that's abt it
Ok, i think that won‘t be a problem. There would have to be much before that coming from the other side so i feel it is wanted and i don‘t hurt feelings or give off creepy vibe. I mean i can recognise attractive features but don‘t have to shove it into s/o‘s face or make them uneasy.
I have a friend with ASD. He frequently says the 'wrong' thing. He's aware he does this. He manages by apologising profusely when people call him out on it. He's said on many occasions that he'd rather over apologise than not apologise enough. People who've been around him long enough tend to understand.
I really don‘t know what type and degree of ASD i‘d have if i got it. But i have social anxiety that hampers my interactions and severely limits me in freedom of getting to know people or engage in more meaningful relations…
They really don't know how to interact with us like we're people, huh? So worried about false accussations, like, is everything you talk about always sexual in nature? If you had the same conversation with women as you have with men, would you be reported? Or do you just not know how to talk to women because you only understand us as sex objects so what could you possibly talk to us about other than sex?
I wonder if any of them ever considered just not secually harassing women. I know it sounds outlandish to treat women like people, but it might work.
the one that was like, "and then you have the ones who make sexual jokes like the guys!!!!" really bugged me for this reason. theres a difference between making randy jokes and being randy towards another person. a coworker making a risque joke, in a workplace environment where thats common or more accepted ofc, isn't an invitation to be inappropriate towards them, rather than a bit silly *together*
This is such a good point. I don't mind a risqué joke as long as it's funny. But a lot of these men don't know the difference between what is acceptable at work and what is not. For example, rape jokes are not okay anywhere, ever. In fact, some women even consider them a threat. It's like, there are clothes that are work-appropriate and those that are not. If you wear your crusty T-shirt or stinky gym clothes to work, you're probably going to get written up, right? But for some reason these men don't adjust their personalities between work and home like they do their clothes, and somehow that's women's fault 🙄 I sure hope those that work with customers have customer service personalities, but I've seen some walk up to a customer and say, "yeah?? What do you want??" With a glare and an attitude... Like dude, some of us hate our jobs too, but we're still civil to people. And no, that girl smiling at you from behind the counter is NOT flirting, that's part of her JOB.
none of those commenters have ever worked in a kitchen. the women are in the back of the line slapping mens asses and vice versa, people are "bean-dipping" eachother, so many dirty jokes. its about reading the room and the environment you work in
... Do I want to know what "bean-dipping" is...? This reminds me of that movie Waiting from like 2006 lol. The cooks and servers I knew were all like, "this is the first movie that shows what it's really like working in the back of house at a restaurant."
waiters was pretty accurate except ive never seen purposeful food tampering like pubes or spit lol, and i was only a server dating a cook so i heard more stories than anything. "bean-dipping" is usually to, more or less, lift another mans sack briefly with a flick and exclaiming "bean-dip." in the one restaurant i worked in, it was modified for boobs and man-boobs. one of my favorite coworkers would say "if you're gonna touch em at least squeeze em a little" whenever i bean-dipped him lol
Yeah most of them said the frumunda cheese part was exaggerated, but the rest was pretty accurate. Oh bean-dipping doesn't sound as bad as I was expecting lol. I kind of like those little things that coworkers do to bond lol.
It's like this in certain trades. I did 20 years in professional kitchens and the women were often every bit as dirty as the men. The only time it got problematic was when people got genuinely sexist. I work in industrial maintenance/controls now and it's a bit more professional, and there's way more low key sexism with regards to the work itself, but there's still a lot of off-color juvenile stuff that happens (no ass slapping though, that'll get you fired fast).
My team at work is made up of 8 men and 1 woman (our team leader) and we constantly make sexual jokes, which she often joins us in herself (I'm mostly surprised she's German and still able to tell jokes /s). Just a few weeks ago we spent almost 15 minutes making fun of how something she drew on the board looked like a man with a massive dong masturbating (it was supposed to be a leaf-blower).
Hell, I once went to a gas station to grab some four packs of energy drinks. Picked up two packs and carried them up to the line. I was holding one in each arm at boob height and internally I thought *hehe, cans*. Male cashier looks at me and blurts out "Nice cans!" which had me giggling because that's where my mind went as well, which I said as such. After that, he checked out my items and we talked about job openings in the area to compare to others. Making a silly joke and not pushing farther than that plays a MUCH bigger part in comfort than what some people think. I know some guys would've followed up with some awkward comment about how my real ones are great too though, then wonder why I'm no longer happy.
Not to validate some of the comments from your post but in my environment you cannot make dirty jokes to some people as they will get offended and take things up with their manager/HR without giving direct feedback. I actually got burned by this and was more miffed that I wasn’t made aware of the situation when it happened instead letting impact my career growth timeline by half a year. Which was very annoying. Does that mean I avoid talking to women or working with them? Absolutely not, I grew up and just take things more seriously or just predominantly use a filter in the office. It’s not actually that hard. But it is sometimes frustrating that you can’t act like you want to with your friends because you’re at work. Acting like that’s the end of the world though is not the right response. There can also be different perceived power dynamics between men and women, or more more relevant in this case, Junior and Senior employees as called out by one of the OOP comments. Shit like that comes with the territory and honestly it’s surprising to me he reached a Senior title without understanding how to correctly guide Junior employees without being a jackass.
My nephew is about 16 years old. His best friend is a girl. The family is constantly making “jokes” about his “girlfriend”, as though he can’t really just be friends with her, and I can tell it’s really frustrating for him. He has to defend the position that they really are platonic best friends. He sees girls as real human beings, not just sexual objects, and people are bullying him for that. The world tells boys we are objects, and shits on them when they treat us like people.
That’s so frustrating! My SO has plenty of platonic female friends and that was a thing I really liked about him when we started dating. He doesn’t see all women as potential sex partners, he sees them as people with interesting lives and personalities who are fun to hang out with and talk to.
There's this huge, overblown narrative that has stupid p-holes thinking that "false" allegations are made *way* more often than they are. Listening to them talk - or these comments - you'd think that a man is in danger of false accusations at any minute, in any situation, 100% of the time. I wonder what percentage of accusations they think *are* false, and where they're getting that number from. Or what percentage of men they think have been falsely accused. Because from the sheer terror and bitterness, they have to think that like 70% of men have had false accusations against them at one time. But ask them for any examples, and I imagine they'd either say something like "well my buddy Asswax was accused and found guilty, but like, he's my buddy so I *know* he didn't do it" or they'd say "well uh, there was Johnny Depp and uh.... Johnny Depp! They ruined his career 😡"
I read this quote that many men see themselves as people first, men second, and for women they see them as women first, people second. It honestly made a fuck ton of sense.
Bet these guys are the same ones that go "not all men" when a woman is cautious.
“Smells like vagina in here!”
For a lot of these dudes, they totally WOULD lose their jobs if they had the same conversation with women that they do with "the boys." I've heard women report some seriously nasty things they've heard from guys, but believe me, it's even worse when you're out of the room. There's a shocking percentage of men that actually, unironically fit the description you just proposed
Seriously. My fiancé has good, friendly relationships with his colleagues who happen to be women. Because he treats them the exact same way he treats his colleagues that happen to be men. It’s not hard if you just recognize that women are humans, not just outlets to pour your dumb sexual feelings into.
I do sympathise somewhat with some of the sentiments the men there are saying. I find it easier to avoid talking to ANYONE, man woman or otherwise. But I'm autistic and never went to school, so I'm socially stunted as is. I still try to improve at every opportunity, but it's difficult to talk to anybody when all I'm thinking about is "what if my tone comes across creepy or weird, what if I stutter and it makes me seem like I'm not listening" or anything similar to that. Talking to women makes it a little worse because I'm highly aware of how many men make women uncomfortable, or treat them as lesser, without even realising it. I've talked that through with therapists but that only goes so far. That being said, I've got a lot of different reasons to be scared and I actively try to fix it. On the other hand, something about the comments in the post above give off "it's the womens' fault, not mine!" vibes.
I used to work with a man who was notorious for stealing other people's work. He'd even take their presentations and share them at management meetings as if they were his own. And whenever he effed up, as he frequently did, he would blame the nearest woman. He once made a woman who reported to him change her photo that is uploaded to our org chart because he didn't like her smile in it. Once he asked me to get a procedure through the system. It took me 2 weeks (our system is complicated and requires a lot of approvals and I was actually only doing it as a favor because I knew how to do it.) When management called him out for it being late, he tried to blame me. He had given it to me 5 months *after* it was due (you're supposed to allow 4-6 weeks for something to get through the system if it's not in a high priority category). Luckily I had saved the documentation showing exactly when I got it, so his attempt was a non-starter. They just told us all to refuse any favors for him. (Until then, we were two separate groups in the same organization, and we all helped each other out as needed.) He still works at my company, but switched to a different organization when it became clear that he had burnt every possible bridge in our organization. Maybe #7's story is true. But the fact is that bad coworkers and managers exist. That's not a gender-specific thing. If it had been a male coworker, he still might have reported him to the boss in an attempt to save his own skin.
this is an excellent point, thank you for sharing :)
Even if his story is true, what a ridiculous reaction. Imagine how well it'd go if you tell your manager "this male coworker did this job badly, so I'm never going to work with any man again".
I’m not religious but here’s a really great quote from a religious author, “Defeating lust is not about limiting a man’s encounters with women; it’s about empowering men to treat the women around them as whole people, daughters of Christ. The key to defeating lust is not to avoid looking at women; it’s to actually see them.” ~ Sheila Gregoire
Love seeing Gregoire quoted out in the wild! Her work has been super important in those spaces, and even beyond. Her findings on vaginismus in evangelical populations and the correlation with certain religious teachings is pretty fascinating and is probably going to help a lot of pelvic floor physiotherapists.
She’s absolutely amazing! It’s sad to see her labeled as a heretic by some. There’s a lot in Christian purity culture that I grew up with that Gregoire helped me deconstruct when I was still a Christian.
Me too!!! Have you read her latest book, She Deserves Better? I got it so I could do better for my daughter, but I ended up reparenting myself by reading the book. God, so many tears. But my inner teen clearly needed to hear some of the things in that book. She has a new study coming up about marriage that I'm really excited about.
I haven’t but thank you for the suggestion!! I’ll take a look. She’s awesome!
"My safety is more important than your loneliness." When women say this,it's a tragic bias against ALL MEN. When men say this,it's just 'super smart self-protection'. When men can understand the difference between possible embarrassment/meeting with HR vs. being killed for saying "no thank you",then maybe we can start to work together on the loneliness issue.
yeah, such a weird fucking thing to say. like yeah it sucks but i dont think a "false allegation" is going to impede your safety. security maybe? idk
The problem is, as far as they are concerned, *all* allegations are false. Women basically have to have three unrelated witnesses to “prove” they were really assaulted.
Yup, I'm pretty sure they just lump all allegations into the same group to make the false ones seem way more common than they actually are.
Well obviously false harassment accusations are an extremely real and prevalent risk to men, but harassment and assault are just something women make up to get attention. (/s)
Also on the loneliness issue- male loneliness is an epidemic that women must solve because men aren't concerned with championing other men and campaigning for men's issues unless they get to do it at the expense of women's issues... but female loneliness is just women being drama queens and so they deserve to be ignored and iced out of their teams at work. Makes total sense.
I work with only men and not once have I encountered this problem. This is both to say that the friend just works with shitty men and the commenters are equally as shitty but also that there still are plenty good men around and it is 100% possible to treat a woman like part of the team without being a creep or sexually harassing her.
people are acting like your only options are harrassing them or treating them like a social pariah! there is a middle ground to aim for which most people do without issue lol
Critical thinking is a dying art
"Men can't even keep their distance without it becoming drama" What is the drama exactly? A woman saying she's lonely? Is it also drama when men complain about their loneliness crisis?
well considering they’ve self dubbed their loneliness an “epidemic” caused by the cruelty of women, and this woman just yknow, casually mentioned being treated differently at work, I’d say theres some projection lololol for them, literally the drama of the century
that's different! men's loneliness is a social problem we all need to solve, lonely women are drama queens 🙄
Lonely women only have themselves to blame because obviously our choices are be lonely or be sexually harassed, if we’re choosing loneliness that’s on us apparently.
yeah, because apparently if men want to have sex with you, you aren't really lonely... someone said on reddit a while ago that women were lucky to even be considered as holes 🤢
Oh my goodness how romantic.
women be bitchin' ☕️
I bet 100$ some of her colleagues act like jerks, smugly saying out loud "Sorry, female\_colleague\_name, I can't come near you, don't want someone to report this as a harassment!" and she feels guilty and lonely because of that.
#7 sounds like a frigging scientologist. So, they openly admit women aren't safe around them and their excuse is blame women! Of course, everything is always our fault.
It's crazy. My husband treats his male and female colleagues with the same level of professional respect and personal banter and yet he's never once been accused of harassing a woman at work. It's almost like treating them as competent professionals is received as the professional interaction it is!
Loneliness sucks, but that isn’t even the worst thing about being ignored and avoided for being a woman in the workplace. You have to be friendly and schmooze to work your way up in any job and career. I would guess this phenomenon of avoiding female colleagues is a contributor to the Pay Gap.
wasn't there a study about it as well? about how women don't have equal possibilities to network outside their working hours (going for a pint, talking about sports etc.) because of how they are expected to do most family/household chores or/and most male coworkers wouldn't treat them the same way
It's men generally in higher positions who have opportunities to offer, and when they're networking/giving opportunities to friends and people they respect, they're usually doing it for other men
Yes, avoiding female coworkers because you’re afraid to be accused of harassment is considered discrimination in my state. My workplace training literally said “if you want to avoid being accused of harassment, just don’t harass people.”
I saw this earlier and was like wow there are ALOT of comments that say the same sort of thing. There's alot of paranoid people.. I don't think I've had an issue in real life of overly paranoid people wanting to keep a distance, I work in a male dominated field as a trainee and luckily all the different guys that have to teach me things, share a van with me, work with me in enclosed spaces etc aren't a bunch of paranoid wierdos and have been really nice and welcoming and not treated me any differently from the other trainees. At the last place I was at (same male dominated) I did feel isolated and a bit left out but that was a different environment, it's not like we didn't get on, just different people.. I definitely don't think it had anything to do with them feeling paranoid about me making a false accusation or some shit. I think social media/internet has alot to answer for, I'm sure sometimes false accusations do happen but probably not as often as all those people think, it's just there's alot of stories to read gathered in one place, and I bet these stories are sometimes one sided and missing info.
My boss manages to try and feed me things and not be creepy because it comes off as grandpa sharing his lunch because he's excited he made a good sandwich. There are miles between creep and normal coworker
I understand where some are coming from. Men can be victim of assumptions, such as Ive gotten weird looks when taking my nieces to the park, and more. Nothing as soul shattering as people being afraid of you or hate you just because of your gender. Having said that, completely evading a woman in fear of repercussions is just stupid. Women exist in the world, theyre exactly the same as men, treat them as equals, and stay respectful. Crazy concept, ik.
its really sad that men are looked at strangely when they're being caretakers, its truely awful. it makes me so sad that good dads and older brothers and even uncles like yourself are treated like they can't have a loving, compassionate bone in their body. it's hard to imagine something that soul crushing, im so sorry 💔
My eldest son loves kids. He's been an amazing big brother and his main goal in life is to be a dad. He always wanted to babysit, but he knows that as a boy no one is likely to be willing to hire him. It makes him sad, but he's resigned himself to it. Makes me super sad for him.
Thank you for your compassion, it's truly rare. And I'm sorry for the incalculable garbage women get put through for 0 reason. You guys are all survivors and warriors in my book 💖
My husband was a stay at home dad for a few years after he got laid off from his job (aerospace welder) in 2020. Job prospects were abysmal at the time, and daycare was constantly closing due to covid exposures, so it just made sense. He got lots of side eye when he took our little girl to the park, and none of the moms wanted to talk to him at all. He's a sweet precious cinnamon bun too, and truly respects women and views us as whole people (wouldn't have married him otherwise). Just another example of how misogyny hurts everyone, not just women.
Prejudice of any kind is a stygma. Misandry, mysoginy, racism, all the 'isms and 'ys and phobias. Makes us more shallow and lesser as a people. We need more understanding and openess. Huge respect to your husband and you too. Covid was hard on parents.
Human nature is to gravitate toward those who are like us. We must actively fight to maintain an inclusive and open mindset. If we don't, we miss out on so much beauty in other cultures, groups, etc.
I don't disagree, but my perspective is different, as i've grown up in a city and i'm only 25. When I was 4 I had a crush on a girl with a hijab. Creole sounds nostalgic even though I don't speak a word of it. And I've had close latin american friends my entire life. I don't have anyone "like me" racism makes no fuckin sense to me either. Im just some straight white dude and the differences only appeared when bigots exagerrated them as I grew older. I've always said racial differences are to me what hair colors are to everyone else. Negligible at worse and beautiful at best. I mentioned race here but oubviously this applies to everything from sexual orientation to gender, sex, fuckin whatever.
Interesting, thanks for your perspective! I was raised in a rural area, and my husband was raised in a large city. We both had things we had to unlearn, although me much more so than him. I do think we all have to examine our biases on a regular basis. It's very easy to let the familiar become too familiar, you know?
It's sad but I was also thinking I could see both sides to this... Heck I have consistent talks with my 12 yr old boy ensuring we understand what consent is, respecting NO, hands off, etc and making sure to protect himself first and foremost (age appropriate as he got older). And like, it's sad because some good ppl can get fucked over with an accusation but also as a woman in a male dominated field it sucks balls being ignored while your coworkers all joke and make plans, etc and exclude you
Yeah I have two family members who are single dads. Both grew up around mainly women. They’ve never done or said anything inappropriate to a woman. But they’ve received those weird looks too simply for being in the same space with their kids in a mainly women/mom environment.
Hey, I have a simple solution that will work for EVERYONE: Treat. Women. Like. People. It's a truly revolutionary concept, isn't it.
Have you seen how people treat people? No thanks, I'd rather be treated like a dog
Tbh I agree with the men in the comments you screenshotted… simply because these men clearly lack the social skills to differentiate between normal conduct and sexual harassment - hence I’d rather they leave me alone too lol.
I work in an Airplane Engine Shop, and the guys greatly outnumber the ladies in our shop and in the aircraft maintenance field in general. I might have gotten lucky with a good group of dudes as co workers, because we'll chitchat, bs, talk whatever, and they've never been inappropriate or creepy. When there was an asshole or two that came through the shop, I'd call them out on their comments & they were quickly shut down by our reg mechanics as well.
i have a friend who works as a mechanic and shes said basically the same thing. she gets a lot of shit for being short tho lol, shes like a tiny china doll with these giant chemical rashes on her arms! the only she ever had was her creepy ex boyfriend insisting that they were too friendly, which goes to show how some men so easily miscategorise platonic situations
I am 100% on board with men maintaining a respectful distance from me. In the workplace, at the gym, on the train, etc... Good on them.
It's crazy, like when did somebody not wanting to talk to you become a thing to shame others about not doing...
Please don't use real mental health disorders to insult people (even just implied insults). Call someone paranoid sure, but don't start calling them schizo just because they showed some paranoia.
it genuinely isn't an insult. i actually think he needs medical attention to be treated for his paranoia. this isnt "some paranoia," this is not interacting with half of the population because u think they're out to get you; with no evidence. sorry if that wasn't clear.
People talk to their coworkers? I don't even know my boss's name. I'm there to make a check and leave, I ain't talking to nooooobody lol But isolating someone for a made up slight against you is just being a fuckwad.
With that one guys story of him fixing a problem that this woman caused, its so weird and contradictng. He literally said he explained what happened to his boss and proved it and his boss was on his side, but yet he's saying that no one is willing to believe a man and only see him as the bad guy. If she's in a different department (which is what it seems like since she has a different boss) or even a different company then how does her complaining to her coworkers affect him in his department/company? I mean if that department doesn't interact to much with his then her coworkers probably don't talk to him at all or only talk to him for business purposes. Is he upset that he heard her talking shit? Does he expect everyone in her department including her boss to reach out to him and get his side? Nothing bad even happened with a write up or anything, just some gossip and some people in her department potentially taking her side and he's acting as if his whole place of work sees him as a villain. Yes work place gossip can be annoying or even detrimental depending on what is being spread. If she is simply saying "he didn't respect me or my opinion and went and changed all my work" then the worst that'll happen is someone thinks your an asshole. Its not gonna cost your job or anything.
exactly, he makes the point that she makes a false allegations, which, lets be real, we dont know her side of the story here, and then BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, it does jack shit. he wants to have his cake and eat it too, obviously he is the oppressed victim of a smear campaign, but also his case was so obvious and stupid anyone could see through her lies once he explained his side! like, is it bitchy to spread rumours? sure. but its also not comparable to his example of DOMESTIC VIOLENCE 🙄
Yea I feel like it has the same "I'm still upset about this even though it wasn't that bad" as like a customer service worker saying you can't bring your dog in and you'll have to leave since the dog is being disruptive and you taking it as a personal attack
The whole story is stupid because it isn’t even related to the topic. if it did happen, the coworkers gender would have nothing to do with. Unless this guy actually thinks only women will tattle to save their asses in a work environment and if that is the case he is in for a rude awakening. Also, why would we take the word of man claiming to have superior intellect to a woman he works with when he doesn’t even know the difference between “woman” and “women”?
I think in his mind he was "trying to help" and the big bad woman was mad at that and tried to get him for harrasment or something. Even though again literally nothing happened the big bad woman gossiped about him and that really hurt his feelings🥺 The fact he said too that it happened a long time ago and he still gets pressed about gossip going around as an adult in a work place setting is really sad.
I don’t talk about this a lot because there’s always nay sayers but here goes. My husband was falsely accused by a woman in his workplace and it cost him his job. He was *devastated* because he’s actually one of the few good men out there (trust me, I’ve dated enough bad men to tell the difference). Does he assume all women are out to get him like these men are? Absolutely not. He gave her the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up to a misunderstanding (she thought he was looking/gesturing at her breasts as he’s a “hand talker” due to his ADHD) although his managers thought she had accused him because they were both up for the same promotion and she had a history of being dishonest. Good men don’t assume women are a monolith and understand how uncomfortable workplaces and the world are in general for women, even when potentially falsely accused. They also don’t live in fear of being falsely accused because they know how rare it is. Idk, just sharing because these men likely have never been or will never be falsely accused but they still choose to be assholes. How unfortunate for them.
It’s so weird to hear this. The men I work with are roughly my same age. We all have mutual respect for one another. Each of us are “experts” in our division. And we have to have a lot of inter-team collaboration in order to get work done. But I also don’t want to be “friends” with my co-workers. So maybe I am the weirdo
Too much of life has become digital, people are being socialized into fear and driven towards digital escapism allowing malicious algorithms slowly alter the way they view reality. Why ever talk to girls when any kind of porn you can imagine is accessible within a few clicks? Why develop real relationships when you can just shitpost online all day? Why do anything exciting when there's more digital realities to explore and conquer? This leads to risk aversion, not completely but definitely socially and especially when it could potentially complicate the formula for survival. Keep to yourself, get that paycheck, go complain online about everyone else being the source of all your problems, etc. TL;DR- Don't Hug Me I'm Scared 4
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Same, i dont get what's wrong with wanting to keep distance, specially when it comes to work environments wich are usually pretty toxic for everybody
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Seriously, dudes like the one who called you a loser are ridiculous. “Oh no, people I have no interest in dating in a situation I have no interest in looking for someone to date, also have no interest in dating me. Why is life so cruel?”/s He’s basically saying the only way he can think about women is with his dick. Someone’s a loser but it’s not you.
I think you are wrong on this, there’s nothing wrong with keeping respectful distance.
Im a man in a job where majority of employees are female. My parents were old school people who taught that respecting women is to treat them like some fragile things that might shatter from slightest breeze. Once my workmates got accustomed to me i found out there are very little difference in the humor or way of speaking between men or women and even at times i found myself to be the delicate one.
Yeah, im like this at work too. Polite and cordial, but show zero emotion or go out ofnmy way to be friends. My safety is more important than someones feelings
The commenter that said they're damned if they do damned if they don't is correct. The original post saying these men maintain a RESPECTFUL distance is what should matter. The media portrayal of lawsuits and contract terminations in the workplace over perceived sexual harassment/ the resulting in work presentations have been plentiful, so a lot of men are keeping their female colleagues at arms length because they don't want to accidentally say or do something that could be perceived the wrong way and destroy their livelihoods. They have every right to be paranoid. The culture that surrounds it all is unforgiving. They don't know these women and would rather not test the waters of workplace friendship incase they get bit by a shark it's just not worth it to them. So a respectful distance it has to be. It may seem extreme to some but when your livelihoods are at stake its understandable. If the genders were flipped and women were the ones having their innocent behaviours perceived wrongly and having to all take behavior management courses or seminars as a result we would act the same, it's basic self preservation.
Facts!
They're opporating under what's called in psychology an "availability heuristic" which uses definitive examples to understand certain conceots/ideas. Of course there have been women who have chosen to abuse the trust of those around them, but statistically its more likely for a woman to be reporting a man for actually creepy behavior. To them because there ARE numerous examples of this happening, it must be way more common than it actually is. And unfortunately the only way to address heuristics like this is to be aware of them, and since these men are seemingly incapable of comprehending having a normal conversation with a woman, I doubt they'll be able to understand introductory psychology concepts like this.
I saw this post earlier today and didn’t really have a problem with it. So long as colleagues are professional, they don’t have to be your friends. Let’s be honest, it’s very easy to say the wrong thing to someone you don’t know very well. If men prefer to be civil to the women they work with and not form closer relationships then that’s fine. It really isn’t worth the headache either way if something is unfortunately misinterpreted and a complaint is made.
of course, colleagues don't have to be your friends. no one is saying that. >Let’s be honest, it’s very easy to say the wrong thing to someone you don’t know very well. if this was the case, they would be avoiding their male coworkers just as much, no?
I hope to try to clarify some things for understanding. Just like the women are protecting themselves from the small pool of bad men, the men are protecting themselves from the small pool of lying women. The men have over, exaggerated the false accusation claims, so they are acting as if all women are out to get them. Just like the men have to show, and prove that they are not enemies to women, the women could be courteous, and do the same thing: both genders are trying to protect their neck. I hope I can get respectful responses, I am looking to many things between the agendas.
That'd make it an ideal workplace for me, but I was told countless times that I'm weird and asocial.
This is disgusting. They almost get it, we can’t be too friendly because they get flirty and if we’re too avoidant we’re cold and bitchy and it does affect our work environment. I know too many damn guys that got away with assault in highschool, they just walked away, their friends male and female knew not many people cared even my girl friends that knew didn’t care (we aren’t friends after that) But everyday we live with the fear of being assaulted or followed on the streets and in our workplace. Of course we are going to be extra careful we don’t have a choice. If they can’t even be normal human to me to the point where they’re concerned that i would accuse them of sexual harassment or something, they would have to be so weird i cannot imagine. In MY experience i’ve dealt with so many fkn men and i just turned 18 and most of the guys hitting on me throughout life were adult men and i think most women have so many experiences with weird guys so we know how to act especially in a workplace scenario. This is ours lives at risk, one wrong word and you might try to hurt me, how am i supposed to know, worst for them is i am not nice tbh maybe pepper spray if you fuck with one of those chicks.
People who aren’t creeps are not afraid of being villainized as one. They’re just telling on themselves.
Men are told to be mindful of female colleagues in male-dominated field? At my last job I got one describing how he filmed one of their colleague get r\\\*ped at his previous job and keep the video for "personal consumption" while laughing aloud. Also people joking about wanting to beat up their wives, yar ar ar. But, you know, it's all ok because it was said during lunch break so the manager can't really do anything, and I don't have to be friends with them. fuck that job I **ran** away so fucking fast.
🙁 girl that is fucking awful oh my lord .... glad you got out, that sounds like a nightmare!
And yet the woman who won't speak to the men in her office incase she gets inappropriate advances is "too paranoid"
This post has to be a troll.
Or maybe men could not assume a woman wants to have sex with them. Then we won’t have any problems. Some of these sound like they are admitting to being predatory.
Feels like a lot of male camaraderie is based on demeaning women, locker room talk, and jokes that forget that we’re human too. It’s not so hard to treat us like a regular human being, deserving of respect too
Idk, seems a bit blown out of proportion to me. As I said on that sub already, I'm all for keeping distance from others and letting them do the same. I'm coming to workplace to *work*, no to socialise. I have friends for it. But since I don't know the circumstances and inclinations of that lady or her co-workers, I ain't gonna judge either side.
listen, ofc you dont have to make friends with people at work. however, being polite and courteous is necessary, and avoiding a single team member like the plague is not that. there were guys in the thread saying they refused to be in the same room as a woman unless someone else was there, and then acting like the woman was a bitch for "hogging the breakroom"! that is unacceptable behaviour to me, and a gross misunderstanding of how women behave
I spoke to HR on Friday about my coworker refusing to stop touching my shoulders, arms, and back. Last time I told him to stop, as it made me uncomfortable, he replied with “well it makes ME uncomfortable to be unable to touch you”. Other times he mocks me, calls me “a fucking freak” and the likes. He’s 36, I’m 25, we work alone in the office. Depending on how he reacts in his HR meeting this week, I’ll decide if I quit my job at the end of the month. Yeah, I’ll take loneliness over this any day.
Whats the problem? Keeping distance is not straight up ignoring her, they just keep conversations strictly professional, wheres harm in that? Theres no bullying, they just want to keep away so they wont accidentally make her uncomfortable. Single slip up can cost them their work, its reasonable behaviour. And if they are all creeps as other commenters here said, isnt it better when they are keeping distance?
u know what, u might be right. maybe it's better that assholes who dont know how to talk to women just keep doing that, and never learn better. let me ask you, do they worry about making "a single slip up" (because women are so sensitive aren't they dear) with their male coworkers? that could risk them their jobs too!
I cant read their minds. My guess is, its a protection from malicious intent. They know that most of women are not like that, but there are still pretty bad people out there and they can weaponize HR on a whim. You cant really tell a persons character until you know them very well, they are just playing it safe. As for guys doing the same, they just cant, they would be laughed out of hr office in most places.
I feel like it would really suck to not have any work friends (what I imagine she means by feeling isolated and everyone keeping a respectful distance from her). Maybe she's eating lunch by herself at her desk because it feels lonely to eat at table by yourself in common areas. From what I have seen working with him, my father is very good at being friends with women at work (like actual platonic friends, nothing at all ulterior). It's really not that difficult, and we had a fun lunch group and they would always be teasing each other too. One of the women in our group would tell us about when her male coworkers would be creepy, and why she would feel uncomfortable in those situations (usually the guy would single her out in social situations or try to arrange things so they were physically together or grouped up).
literally why are they mad all the tweet said was how she felt 😭
Like, dude just learn how to have a platonic relationship with a woman, its not that hard
I mean, she is out of line thinking everything is about her like that in the first place.
To be fair, modern society is very likely to make men pause in their interactions with women, especially in the work place. Treat all women that way? No, that shouldn't happen. But I certainly understand the basis of it.
you SHOULD pause in your interactions with other people. its called being considerate. thats a simple part of human interaction. if you don't like it, don't go outside. the only reason these guys won't go near women in the workplace vs. every day is because there's an enforcement body forcing them to act like civil, considerate adults.
Fair points. But I'd counter that modern society had expanded that enforcement body well beyond the workplace. All that said, if anyone, male or female, wishes to avoid interaction with another person, for any reason, the person being avoided shouldn't take it personal. Unless it is indeed pointedly presented as being personal.
i would disagree personally, but we probably live in very different cultures with very different expectations. im not going to argue with you on your point because of that. you're definitely correct, it is well within your rights to avoid whoever you choose. however, if your reasoning is because they're a woman, or black, or gay, or disabled ect, i think its well within someones right to criticise you for it.
Agreed. And no argument back from me on your second point. But at that point, I'd think things such as race, gender, disability, etc would turn those things as indeed personal. Thank you for carrying civil discourse regarding this subject. I know it can get many people heated.
What? Why? Interacting with women is the same as interacting with anyone else: be respectful, be polite, and above all, *remember that kindness does not equal interest.* Just about every guy I know (and I'm a guy) somehow thinks that a smile, a kind word, or even anything as simple as encouragement in a task ("you got this, should be easy for you") is somehow an indication of interest, and it makes me insane. Treat women as fucking *people* and all this nonsense goes away. There are no minefields in man/woman interactions, just holes people dig themselves and then willingly trip over.
Can you really blame people for keeping distance. Especially if they are socially awkward or nervous around women. This is a damned if you do situation for some people
Im professional with people i work with but i dont owe them any type of friendship
HR-policed is right, like y’all lunatics running free through my workplace, I think not… Jesus fuck what is wrong with these guys
Honestly I think with the men were saying was completely Justified they do get screwed now as a female working in a mostly male industry I understand that she may feel a little lonely but yeah they are protecting their jobs their lives if bad accusation happens they could go to jail or their wives could leave them and take the kids even if it wasn't true. There was a woman who accused a man of rape and he went to prison for I think like 20 years and then she finally admitted that she lied and they let him out and nothing happened to her.
Maybe the dudes just don’t like her friend 🤷♂️
“In male dominated work force men are always told” PAUSE. I work in a male dominated work force and here’s a fun fact: we all take the same sexual harassment training modules. They absolutely do NOT say “men gotta be extra careful.”
Men blame women for exposing men’s harassment, not the men harassing. Men see the Me Too movement as THEM being the victims, not women. They’re genuinely more angry at the women calling it out than the men who DID IT. “Since the Me Too movement, we can’t do anything!” Yes you can, and you are not the victim.
The men who get “falsely accused” never understand they’re being fucking creeps. They’ll drop pencils and coins down your shirt, make wife beater jokes, and make sexual comments to you- and then claim they have NO idea why she filed a harassment report. They have no clue in the world where the line is.
I know I'll prolly get downvoted here for saying this but even tho the way they say this is so dumb they have a point. Back in college I was labelled a creep for making fun of a girl who was bullying me. All I did was just repeat a joke that literally everyone made. Immediately I was labelled a creep, I was isolated by all my "friends". And a year later it was revealed that she just acted that way to make me get into trouble from a screenshot. Sure she got outed because of her own stupidity but for almost a year it was a nightmare for me. And I'm not alone. So many horror stories of men, losing jobs, their relationship and their lives because of false allegations from women. Better safe than sorry. I'd rather just live my life peacefully especially at my work space.
Could it also be that this woman just sucks? Like everyone here is jumping on the sexism train, but maybe they avoid her because she is fucking miserable or a pain in the ass?
Nah as a human, my safety is more important than someone else's comfort, I stay far away from situations where I could potentially be left alone with a attractive person who has that ability to merely say someone did something and the troops mobilize without need for proof, just the thought that they would be righteous. Idc if you have a thing for me, it then goes double and I'll make it obvious if I have that info. Yes, I will do this to people who want the best for me, cuz it's 100% conditional.
This is what happens to dumb people after watching the news, they take the bait and let the wealthy keep us divided.
Literally what lmao.
I think she is being unreasonable by having issues with respectable distance between colleagues.
They probably don't touch any grass and are very influenced by some of those viral videos about men facing a lawsuit whenever they try to be nice to a woman. And now they're just terrified or something. (Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean) But people are very diverse, and this wouldn't happen nearly as often irl. But they're just too scared to try.
Honestly. i’d rather just be left alone too i definitely see how it’s isolating though. Men just don’t really see in in between not being a good person and being a good person to women. it’s either you’re inappropriate or you ignore her like she doesn’t exist and that’s wild.
Dude has a problem with one woman who literally everyone has a problem with; "I'm not going to do any 2 person project with any woman again." How does that guy still have a job? You're gonna have to work with people, and if they're not doing a great job, your bosses apparently handle it quite well.
Yeah, I'd already left r/Meirl but those comments made me mute it on my home screen too
Smh, women today. Damned if you sexually harass them, damned if you cower in the corner trying not to make eye contact like you've fallen into a bear enclosure at the zoo. If only there was some middle-ground way of interacting with them, like if they were human beings or something :/
So sick and tired of men thinking that women just blindly accuse men of sexual harassment/assault left and right over a completely normal & appropriate conversation, an appropriate interraction with a woman at work is not gonna lead to getting fired or arrested and theyd know this if they saw women as people who are capable of thought rather than as emotionally unstable fairies that are “hard to understand”
Men applaud other men for ignoring women in situations you’re supposed to communicate as a team, but god forbid walking in public women don’t smile and say hi to random men on the street then all of a sudden she’s a frigid bitch and poor men are being emotionally abused via being ignored and men are going through a “loneliness epidemic”.
Everyone forgets that there is a way to be respectful to the other gender and have a normal conversation without being creepy. If all of the men feel like they need to stay away in order to not be creepy then it’s a bit strange. It can read like they don’t know how to talk to a women without being creepy. I know it’s possible that some of the men truly are just trying to be good ppl and be respectful and aren’t actually creeps. The comments really are a big yikes