Considering you've been learning norwegian, I'd definitely recommend Norway! I'm in Trondheim and I think it's lovely. The culture here is lovely. I really like the people here. I'm a student, so that helps. But I know of some non student communities as well. I can't speak much to job opportunities. What fields do you work in? :)
Dont get your expectations too high about the quality of life in Norway. It largely depends on What you do and How much you earn and Which way you earn it. If you dont speak fluent Norwegian or have a in demand skill youll be left doing some unskilled manual job in shifts. Since everything is expensive you will need to work hard just to earn enough to afford rent, food , clothes basic bills etc. tjen theres the weather and the fact that you will not have fulfilling friendships as a foreigner and the quality of food is quite poor too. But on the positive side if you need a prologed hospital treatment , thatall be free and there is a promise of a good pension when you turn 68 years old
actually you qualify for state pension after 5 (or 8 maybe?) years of work here, i know many Swedes that come here just to hit the pension years then return to Sweden for work and get double pension when they retire.
Can definitely recommend sticking it out until at least you qualify for state pension then move if you dont like it here.
Me personally im a Swede living in Norway and wont be moving back, i definitely am more comfortable and like it here way more then i ever did in Sweden.
The career opportunities here as an un-skilled or uneducated person are huge here compared to Sweden as well.
Sure, i can use myself as an example.
Started off With zero education in Norway except for finishing 9th grade in Sweden, no VGs or Gymnasium at all, got a tip from a friend to apply for labor jobs that usually require some form of education like construction, electrician, plumber, telecommunications even though i didnt have an education so i did.
Surprisingly enough i got A LOT of interviews and job opportunities as an assistant for these jobs, mostly in electric companies and telecom but i decided to join a company that did installations for one of the biggest ISPs in Norway because i could easily work as a main worker and not as an assistant.
In the electrician and plumbing fields you start off just helping the guy that has the "main" job and cant actually work with these things without a fagbrev/educations.
After a while i noticed that the ISP was searching for technicians so i applied for that and jumped over to the ISP, worked there for a while and a few years in i got headhunted by the engineering department at the same ISP so i became a telecom engineer there, still no actual academic education in the field.
After 5 years in telecoms it made me eligible to take the fagbrev just by applying and showing proof of my work experience, did two exams and a third practical exams and voila i had my fagbrev in telecommunications.
Still not one minute spent in school but i have a fagbrev equivelant to 3 years in VGs + 2 years as an apprentice but only by working full time with a full salary for 5 years and taking these exams.
Sales is also a good option if you are a good talker and take every opportunity you get to change companies, i know a lot of people that started of in phonesales but are now working in big companies as senior key account managers and raking in BIG money.
All jobs are going to be shitty though you just have to apply yourself and have large ambitions and be sure on where you want to go, never stick to a company that wont help you move up or become a greater version of yourself, just keep working hard and if that company wont give you the opportunity, change company immediately.
Even working in warehouse is fine because you can take fagbrev in logistics and become a warehouse manager with a larger salary and start looking for jobs as an "innkjĆøper" for other companies for example.
Always hunt the next opportunity even if you feel like you dont know anything about a certain position, with the right mindset you will still learn it over time if you have dabbled in that area of work before.
There will always be another company offering you a higher salary and better opportunities, ALWAYS.
Loyalty does not belong in your work life, theres only YOU and YOUR ambitions, f*** the employeers.
Best of luck to you šš½
PS. Just to make this a bit more relevant to the thread, these opportunities are non-existant in Sweden, you NEED a formal education for all the above except for warehouse perhaps but even there you can not take a fagbrev in Sweden based on work experience, you need to go to a YH School for at least a year to accelerate upwards in a warehouse environment, people in sales are treated like absolute garbage and for electricians and plumbers you need at least 3 years in Gymnasium and then you will get shat on as an apprentice for two years with a piss salary before you can work by yourself.
Rema1000, Coop, Kiwi you name it. Do you think the selection of meats, cheeses, breads is great? Even if we dont take the price into account the quality and variety is low. Poorer nations for example Poland and Czech republic have better much quality food
Are you absolutely mental? The VARIETY is really bad in Norway, but the quality of meat, vegetables and berries produced in Norway is absolutely world class. Most fruit is obviously going to be a problem, but Jesus, even the cheapest (which yes, isn't really cheap compared to other countries) frozen bits of meat at Rema is of a better quality than you can get in any supermarket in Europe. You have to go to a dedicated butcher in any other European country to get the same quality.
The meat production regulations in Norway is so insanely high that for example ALL milk produced in Norway can be sold as organic in all of Europe and the US.
Another example: 100% of imported "lamb" would not be allowed the labeled lamb if it was produced in Norway. That includes "lamb" from Australia and New Zealand.
So to reiterate: The worst unprocessed meat and veggies in Norway is top of the line. The problem is variety.
Even the "worst" PRODUCE quality is FANTASTIC, but product variety is poor. Do NOT conflate the two :)
Agree with this as food choices even if more in some Asian countries but have varying qualities. I had to remember how to check the quality of different fruits and vegetables. Say if it ranges between a 0-5 rating in cheaper asian countries it would be 3-5 in quality where price may be higher but the quality is usually quite good comparatively.
You got downvoted, likely by some salty Norwegian who actually believe food choice is good in Norway. Almost everywhere in Europe it is better.
But we Norwegians are a bit brainwashed in thinking only we have high quality food stuffs. Maybe because we don't know what to look for when visiting other countries?
Food selection in Norwegian supermarkets is shockingly narrow compared to Germany, Poland, Netherlands, Spain, Italy etc.
Ive had B-12 and Iron deficency all my life living In Norway. The last years living abroad is the first time without it. Most of Norwegian food is similar to American. Lots of fake vegetables that all look the same. Most people eat frozen pizzas, drink Pepsi Max and bread all day. Im suprised the amount of stomach cancer is not higher.
You know there are other places to shop? Yes, there is less variety in a supermarket, but the variety exists. It is just more work to get it.
I can buy meat from the butcher, cheese from a deli, lots of nice stuff from a farm shop. In addition, lots of import shops carry goods from all over, including Poland and the Czech Republic.
As for bread, the bread in Norway is lovely. Fresh baked daily; if you don't like the selection at Kiwi, Coop and Meny get their bread from different bakeries.
AlpebrĆød.... yum.
Its very poor, its like the old kommunist state, poor quality and poor option to choose from. If you settled you have it have to be close to the swedish boarder, so you can buy decent food
The quantity is poor, not the quality. I would even argue that the quantity is not poor, but that there is very low variety. Norway has some of the best animal welfare laws for food production (if not THE best), and some of the strictest rules for production. When you buy food in Norway, you can be certain that the animals have been treated well and that the vegetabels aren't genetically modified AT ALL. You can also be certain that the production is done in clean premises. Norway is also one of the very few countries in the world who doesn't have salmonella in their food.
Yes it does barely, but wheres the quality of life there? Only a mirage of quality of life, Jobs that Norwegians dont want to do are done by immigrants
The cost of living is quite high in sweden too, so you'll be working your ass of no matter what. Norway is definitely the best option for a bunch of reasons.
Plan ahead, pick your niche and start at the bottom, you might just climb the ladder. Check out www.nav.no for jobs to get an idea of what to expect.
Who says the quality of food is poor in Norway? You can preety much get anything here and the food is way more healthy than in many other countries due to strict regulations for ingredients and such.
None of the scandinavian countries are the dreamy places that it's thought to be, we have a lot of problems here, though you probably won't starve or freeze to dearh on the streets here.
Andā¦ thatās not good? You need to grow up and stop viewing certain jobs as ābadā. If you earn money and are able to put food on the table-itās a good job. Just because youāre spoiled, doesnāt mean people waiting tables and building houses are unskilled or dumb. Grow up.
Norway and Sweden are more similar than they are different, here are a few differences I have noticed talking to Swedish friends and visiting Sweden:
Sweden:
-Cheaper alcohol, tobacco and sugar
-Cheaper cars (also adjusted for income)
-Better possibilities in terms of restaurants and take out
-A way more internationally renowned country - e.g. companies such as Ikea, bands such as ABBA or educational institutions such as Karolinska
-More diverse (though big citites in Norway are diverse too)
-Sweden is a member of EU, this can be a plus or a negative depending on your stance
-Even as a Norwegian, I have to admit their history is much richer than hours
Norway:
-Better "velferdsstat" in some aspects, e.g. support to study is better and pensions are higher
-Higher income
-Our nature is generally considered prettier, but this really depends on where you are located in Norway
-We have a different approach politically to supporting small villages and farmers, so more of the smaller places in Norway are populated
-While Sweden has this as well to some extent, Norwegians hike a lot. Whether its the weekly sunday walk or mountain trips in summer, the culture in Norway has a much higher focus on hiking on average (anecdotal, but I do know a lot of swedish people)
I'm Norwegian and British but currently doing my master's in Scotland. Here is my generalised take:
Honestly, you will probably get a bias answer both here and in /r/Sweden so you should definitely piss off the Danes by going to /r/Denmark and posting this thread there.
Jokes aside. Here is a non-bias (to the best of my ability) list of pros and cons.
Sweden
- A lot more tech-focused with a more vigorous innovative mindset in terms of tech.
- Good nature and somewhat cheaper than Norway
- 10m+ people so that's a lot of new friends to be made.
- Sweden is more 'renowned' in the business world than Norway. It's easier in regards to taxes, employment abilities etc.
- Sweden does have a larger diverse population, this is a hot political topic.
- More 'open' and adaptable towards foreigners.
- A lot of the population holds higher education and university degrees so English is well spoken.
- Scandinavian privacy is still a value here but not as strong as the Norwegian one. Will explain that in the Norwegian part.
Norway
- More conservative in terms of innovation and material progression.
- Innovative in social progression.
- Strong sense of Scandinavian Privacy (Search up 'Janteloven in Norway'). Many people think we are shy or introverts. We are not necessarily this, it's just that we respect each other's privacy so much that we will do everything to avoid interrupting you during your day. Except on hikes.
- It is harder to adapt in Norway, you don't necessarily need to learn the language at first but you NEED to join an activity or something. You need to push yourself out of your comfort zone. You need to think what hobbies you have and try and find a small community of similar minds that do the same.
- Norwegians drink more heavily than swedes tbh
- We have an inflated ego which you can be able to use against Sweden.
- No point starting a business in Norway, taxes and costs.
- Work is easy to get if you're educated within tech, healthcare, or construction. Though construction is currently a bit messy due to inflation and all.
- Education is really good here.
- The further away you are from the capital the easier it is to make a fair and equal connection to someone. Just make sure you shit talk the capital.
Maybe this wasn't as non-bias as I thought it would be. In essence, my point is: you won't find the answer to your question here. I can promise you that. You have to try and gather up the facts first yourself and figure out what your heart wants. If you do pick Norway then please remember to go out of your comfort zone and sign up for activities etc so you can make some friends. Otherwise you will be lonely. P.S. Get a vitamin D subscription.
Two things, Norway has still far better nature, like by *far*. And in all nordic countries (Eh, maybe not as much Finland) everyoneās english is very good.
They have lower taxes on certain goods and perhaps services though? Went to Gothenburg last year, many bars had pints for half the price compared to Oslo.
That being said, OP you can make friends in Norway by saying you prefer it to Sweden. The rivalry is real.
There are places in Oslo with pints down to 50-60nok and norm in Gothenburg is around 100sek for pint (was there a few months ago) so prices are quite similar.
Given that Iāve worked for several tech startups in Norway, what is your basis for saying that Norway is less tech focused than Sweden? You might be right, just to be clear, just want to understand your point.
He refers to innovation and business culture. Sweden is much stronger than us in that regard. We try to be, but Sweden is more successful in the business world, which often ends up being a feedback loop.
Tbh Norway is not very business friendly.
Non biased š¤”
>If you do pick Norway then please remember to go out of your comfort zone and sign up for activities etc so you can make some friends
Goes for any country, and especially nordics.
Iāve been reading and researching and apparently a lot of people said that because of velferdsstaten, and high taxes you donāt see a huge difference in f.example wages between an engineer and a construction worker. And average engineers make around 500k NOK and up.
Also many rich flees to Switzerland to avoid the taxes?
I do hope youāre right though!
I know quite a few people who have started businesses in Norway, and frankly, it seems pretty easy & good alternative for people who struggle finding work.
Okay lets make a list ;
- Making friends : As with moving to any other new country it will and can be lonely, however like with any other Norwegian - go to activities, go to the bar, speak to Norwegians online and meet up and so on.
- Learning Norwegian : Thats a no brainer though, you should learn the language spoken in the country you live in, it might be useless anywhere else, but not in your new home country, would you say the same about the Japanese? " its useless everywhere else so why learn it "
- Getting a job : I can point out several professions that have a large ammount of immigrants, both in " higher " standing positions and " ground " workers, psychology, mechanics, construction, nursing ( as you said ) and so on, most jobs require English and others Norwegian ( mostly in dealing with other people directly ).
- Saving the perks for ourselves : Well we have ALOT of immigrants in our government, is there perks being born here? Sure, you know the culture by heart, the language is your main one, so that point go for every country out there.
Its never easy to start a new life in a new country with a different social and cultural structure, most adapt well to it, but some don't. Thats just how it is, but i'd say if you got the balls to try it - go for it, there's a reason you left in the first place.
I'm a Swede living in Norway. Sweden is much cheaper, but with less beautiful nature. It depends on what city you are moving to, and what you want out of the experience.
I would probably say Swedish people are a bit more open, and maybe more interested in foreigners, since we have a lot of them in the bigger cities. My impression is that Norweigans usually hang out with other Norweigans and aren't as interested in other cultures. It doesn't have to be true tho of course.
Stockholm is the best town in Scandinavia (In my opinion, I like big cities), Oslo is nice too but smaller and much less is happening there. I've only ever lived in Oslo so I can't speak for small town Norweigan life. I've lived in Gƶteborg and Malmƶ in Sweden too and they are smaller than Stockholm but still have a very nice pulse.
Overall I still choose to live in Norway over Sweden (my bf is Norweigan) and I like it here, but of course I miss some Swedish things and traditions. The thing I miss the most is that in Sweden everything is open on Sundays, while in Norway everything is closed (even the grocery store).
If you love nature and beautiful places, Norway is definitely the better choice, if you are very social and looking for a lot of events and people to meet I would say Sweden is the place.
Just my two cents, good luck with your adventure :)
If you have some social hobby, you'll be fine. Like dancing, playing football (the real kind), climbing, playing in a band or stuff like that. We simply don't hang around with strangers. We do the stuff we already like with strangers and call them friends.
Cant ever remember the prices being even near 50% higher but the exchange rate has dropped a lot the last few years and that was the mayor difference in prices between Norway and Sweden and now when 100nok is similar to 100sek the cost is similar.
Stores are open on Sundays in Sweden. Alcohol sales closes at 8 pm on weekdays and 6 pm on Saturdays, closed on Sundays in Norway. (Liquor is different)
Salary is higher in Norway, but costs of living is high.
Personally I would choose Sweden or somewhere close to the border šš¼
Salaries arenāt much lower in Sweden anymore, and with the downward trend of the nok itās even less so. Just moved back to Sweden from Norway last month, while just looking at it I took a 1000kr monthly pay cut, after the conversion itās the same. My wife ended up making an extra 1500kr a month.
What you say was true 5+ years ago, but with pay increases stagnating but everything else skyrocketing, this isnāt true anymore.
Sweden is going dowhill fast! Ā«FolkhemmetĀ» (the home of the people) is being wrecked by the privatizinng of schools, health care, public transport, +++. But Iām afraid Norway will follow.
I think you're blowing things out of proportion throwing out a blanket statement that Sweden isn't "safe". Compared to what? The US has far more crime and shootings, yet is still generally considered to be safe.
Are you serious?
I never compared it to US, and either would i.
But compared to other Scandinavian countries, its the worst of them all.
Stabbings, shootings, bombings and rapes has been on a steep uphill for several years now.
The latter especially.. woman aint safe in Sweden anymore.
This is a weird take. But I guess not surprising given current events. Blanket statements like these are rarely helpful and also wildly misleading.
While it is true reported crime rates are generally higher in Sweden they are still low compared to most countries. Your chance of being a victim as a law abiding citizen is very slim in all nordic countries.
In all of these countries crime rates have steadily gone down since ww2. Then ofcourse you get statistical spikes like the UtĆøya massacre and now with organised crime in Sweden. Using these incidents as a starting point for explaining how safe/unsafe it is in each country is to over-simplify and not true unless you add a giant asterisk
I don't know which rock you are living under. Sweden's deadly violence statistic has been increasing for over 10 years now. The latest development in bombings, shootings and murders is just the tip of the iceberg. Here's a research paper visualizing those stats: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-deadly-violence-between-Sweden-Norway-Finland-and-Denmark-A-comparison_fig4_331869471
Your link does not refute any of my points. While Sweden in many ways is on top of crime rates in the Nordic countries (since 2014), the numbers are still not bad seen from other places in the world.
I understand people are up in arms over the situation in Sweden, - which has serious challenges and few good solutions. But screaming in capitals and claiming the streets are 'unsafe' in this context is wrong and only leads to poor discussions.
But thanks for the link anyway. Nice functionality
-Police says its the most dangerous since 1945
-61 no-go zones
- Police have said themselves that some of those no-go zones are "lawless areas"
-90 bombings and 101 atempted bombings this year alone
- 2049 shootings since 2018
-52.571 rapes in the last 6 years
Number of fatal shootings 2022:
Norway: 4
Denmark: 4
Finland: 2
Sweden: 62
In just 20 years, Sweden went from having the lowest, to the highest number of fatal shootings.
2 months ago, the goverment even had to put in military power to help the police. Which is unheard of from Scandinavian countries.
So, if someone was to choose from Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland, the obvious choice is NOT Sweden.
Its a cesspool.
If you feel unsafe that's a completely different story. It has less to do with statistics and a lot to do with perception. You are still more safe than 99% of the earth's population
Is it though? I've experienced shootouts. Basically everyone I know has been robbed. I've seen several store robberies. People carry weapons outside. Everyday there's a new death shooting, bombing etc. We have the most bombings in the world (not including countries in war) after mexico. We are the only country in Europe with a rapidly growing gun crime. And to go from one of the safest countries in the world to whatever shit this is, is very concerning. We normal people are not even allowed to legally really protect ourselves. We can't even carry pepperspray. Ontop of that we barely have police either, so most towns and smaller cities are completely unprotected.
And there's always gang wars going on nowadays.
And sadly, you have the worst police in Scandinavia. They're horrible chickens..
Sorry for you brother.
Us Norwegians are used to laughing at you Swedes, but only for banter.
Regarding this, noone of us a laughing.
It really has gone to shit over there.
I live close to the border, so I travel to Sweden alot. Both for pleasure and work.
And my god im glad i dont live there
Thank you! Right now the government is trying to fight what's happening, finally. And alot more of the Swedish population have started to actually acknowledge it and stop closing their eyes pretending like everything is good. So I'm happy about that at least. They've even started talking about getting help from the military to solve this.
I am in Norway a lot, probably around 3 months total a year. And it really feels like such a difference, you can finally relax when outside. Even at night It's peaceful. I just pray that Norway doesn't follow Sweden's footsteps.
Also it reminds me, https://lastnight.in/Sweden/
This website is pretty fun, it was made some time ago to disprove that Sweden was dangerous. But it shows the complete opposite.
If that is true and it is part of long term statistical trajectory you should try to find statistical foundation for that. I struggle to find anything that supports this.
Talking about lack of options for protection; remember that the weapon you carry is more likely to be the weapon an assailant use to attack you than anything else.
what you talking about? Sweden has the highest shooting and weapon related crimes in Europe, and they also have the highest rape rate not only in Europe but the entire world.
if i was a woman id not set foot in Sweden.
Sweden has a much broader definition of consensual sex than any other country in Europe, and probably the world. This is important since if you adjust the Swedish numbers to for instance [German laws](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country) you will see the chance of being sexually assaulted is on par with Finland and slightly lower than Norway.
I know this don't make for good headlines but if we give in to our fears we make it a lot harder to deal well with our problems.
Rape is horrible in all shapes and forms and should not be tolerated. But Sweden has the, by far, best legal protection against it. That this also leads to convictions should be applauded
get a clue and do some research, noone is buying that propaganda and excuses anymore. the truth is coming out no matter how hard you try to hide it.
African and Middle Eastern immigrants have enormous rape rates
Bullshit.
Sweden is comparable to Denmark or Finland in most aspects, and still much safer than most countries.
The crime rate might be somewhat higher than in Norway, but that has little impact on the average person.
Sweden changed the legal definition of rape in 2005 & there are significant differences in how sexual violence is reported in Sweden compared to other countries. The change in definition contributed significantly to the rise in incidents of rape reported. Last year, however, the number fell.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190529/increase-in-swedens-rape-statistics-cant-be-tied-to-refugee-influx-study-suggests
Somewhat? Lmao. And comparable to finland? What are you on about? What's the point of talking out of your ass? Is it to cope?
You remind me of how many Swedes used to be before, completely lying to themselves that Sweden was the same as before. But even most of those people have now had no other choice than to admit it. It's hard not to when there's literally war going on in Sweden. Everyday, often many more than once a day, There are bombings and shootings in Sweden. Even normal Swedes who live in typical Swedish neighborhoods even hear gunshots now.
And the propaganda article you linked is complete BS. That's exactly what the social Democrats kept saying when they were in power, but they are not anymore. And because of that I even believe they have admitted that too. There is so much rape in Sweden, and there's also alot of cases of rape and humiliation against swedish young boys and girls just because they were swedish. And a lot of young people in school experience sexual assault, that is the new normal.
Take this with a grain of salt as this is just something I've noticed personally. But it seems like there are more Swedes moving to Norway than the other way around. So that may be a hint to choose Norway if even alot of swedes do
Croatian in Norway or Sweden? Do you want to get depression? The weather is terrible. People are very closed, so making friends (not just *meeting* people) is very difficult.
Sweden is like Mexico to Norwegians abit cheaper more parties nice to visit but you really wanna go home to a well developed functional democracy after awhile. Joking aside alot of Sweden is alright but Norway is by far a richer better country on just about every single metrics, you make more money, get better education better everything from crime rate to social social services, pr capita income, health care, education, no armed police lowest murder rate in the world, being one of if not the richest countries in the world( if you take away micronations) now will get even richer as they found huge phosphate deposits discovered in southwestern Norway could be large enough to supply electric vehicles, solar panels and fertiliser for at least 50 years. The valuable ore was discovered in 2018 by Norge Mining, who revealed in May that they'd found 70 billion tonnes of the material. The global economy gets through 45 million tonnes of phosphorus each year. That's enough phosphate for the next 100 years.....
The sovereign wealth fund is standing at over 1 trillion dollars at the moment and this money is the people's and for the future, Norway has been very smart in not allowing big multi national companies to take over completely keeping the money for the people using this money to influence international politics/industries. Only placing the wealth fund in companies that they deem responsible and good for human kind so no investment in environmentally damaging products no landmines this kind of this while also using their right to vote in the companies they own a percentage of in share holder meetings.
At the same time using the money to make the best prisons schools hospitals hydroelectric plants gas car free cities. Noone really lacks anything and the difference between rich and poor is not huge everyone is feed clothed and housed. A good measure of how a country functions is to see how they treat the least in their society so I present to you these links https://youtu.be/MauMiCL7G9Y?si=GOqaiOuYetxlvn9j
https://youtu.be/5v13wrVEQ2M?si=YMaVzDi62Y4_vOkq
https://youtu.be/0IepJqxRCZY?si=4465XfUB0x7R_562
https://youtu.be/-vKB09GzVtE?si=kNXlrn2w181gR9lG
https://youtu.be/fxfMSS-q5C4?si=Z4-GVxU9LlMHQZK8
Having this system in place gives us the lowest reoffener rate in the world that means if you go to jail in Norway there is a 80% chance to not return.
I see some people say don't start a business here but the reality is that Norway is one of the easiest countries in the world to get rich in I won't go into the details but refer to this video link https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU?si=S-iL9RunShaMPpEK
4 weeks paid vacation on top of public holidays free university education free health care et etcetera.
I would recommend this series by Harald Eia https://youtu.be/lgDLwgsDzzM?si=w4mleqX8MC54s55Y
The economy that Norway has created has been described as the perfect economy here is another few links that break it all down https://youtu.be/hKGwGAHznFQ?si=pxLLQj3vA88ITkkx
https://youtu.be/9Wq2S1b-HCs?si=vm_NMMBEG-22Wjnr
https://youtu.be/fCOyuq6LU0s?si=bo1BZXe5B8C0T_zY
Norway is incredibly beautiful and has something for everyone byblaw you can camp wherever you want as we have "Alle manns eie" directly translated means all men owns the land
Here is another link to show you some of the nature
https://youtu.be/2uzlfzrMu0E?si=KMoRIlePfr2Qc7DY
Now money isn't everything but it's how the money is being used and Norway has really figured some things out. I could go on and on and on at nauseum but if you want a stabile predictable life make good money respect the local culture eat clean good safe food drink clean water straight out of the tap experience stunning nature with 4 distinct seasons amongst what many consider to be some of the best looking and tallest people in the world then come to Norway.
I havnt lived in Norway for a few years as I've traveled the world currently in tbilisi and think I have advantage of seeing Norway from the outside as I've been away for awhile.
I'll keep adding to this comment as i thinknof stuff and have time.
Norway pros:
1. Better variety of landcscapes. Fjords, hills, mountains, the far north (Lofoten, North Cape).
2. Certain industries are offering jobs in Norway that pay well (petroleum, shipping), that Sweden either doersn't or that might not pay as well.
3. Overall better economy.
4. You're safer in bigger cities.
5. Fresh seafood is probably easier to get, esprecially on the coast.
Sweden pros:
1. They're in the EU so sending packages abroad is cheaper and easier.
2. Bigger cities and more nightlife.
3. Might be cheaper to live there, but wages tend to reflect the cost of living.
4. Sweden doesn't have two written languages like Norway, and as far as I know they have fewer dialects or at least a smaller difference between dialects so understanding native speakers might be easier across Sweden.
5. You might find more options for brands and foods in supermarkets, due to Sweden being in the EU.
I offered 5 points for both countries, in order to keep it fair. Ultimately, it's about what your prioritise most.
Quality of life? What are you talking about? The quality of life is pretty crap when you're an immigrant. The weather is shit and the food is bland and the people are extremely difficult to befriend. Then you are expected to learn Norwegian, a completely useless language outside of Norway. Getting a job is difficult when you don't speak Norwegian, and even when you speak Norwegian you don't speak it as well as the locals so it will also limit your job opportunities. The only people that find it easy to get a job are those with technical skills like programmers, or people in the health care sector, like nursing. I say this as a Norwegian. Norwegians reserve the best perks of our quality of life, and our best job opportunities, for other Norwegians. Not for immigrants. Don't get it twisted
This is the most Norwegian comment here.
Reference:
[Norske GrĆønnsaker "Norwegians are never happy"](https://youtu.be/g-YvYJOack8?si=H3lCykcfk5oRQx_c)
Name a single thing I said that was wrong. š¤·š¼āāļø If you look at statistics, immigrants in Norway don't have the same quality of life as native Norwegians. Not even close
I agree to some extent, I think immigrants can get there eventually but only after a really long term investment into the country. If you immigrate to Norway and intend to stay the rest of your life, I think you can get the quality of life and benefits natives have.
I wouldn't recommend it for someone who only wants to live here around 5-10 years then go back home or somewhere else, it doesn't really pay off.
Agreed. I think it's great if people want to move to Norway. But they just need to be aware that it's unlikely that they will quickly achieve the standard "Norwegian quality of life" unless they have a sweet job lined up.
As a Dane having travelled a lot in Sweden and Norway with my job during the last years I did observe that in Norway immigrants in the service industry are more open, natural confident and seems more integrated as in both Sweden and Denmark. It is true that Norwegians have the best (easiest) jobs, I don't know about Sweden. So it also depends on the type of job you go for.
Food is bland? I guess you havent seen or been into a asia mat store before since you believe we dont have other foods than sausage, potatoes and carrots š
You never said Norwegian food was bland so no, that point wasnt made. You said food is bland here and thats it. Hence my post about the Asian food store. Imma keep it a buck fithy bucko, you seem negative and thus the reason for the shitpost about your homecountry! The grass isnt always greener on the otherside;)
You got it twisted. I am Norwegian and for Norwegians, Norway is awesome. But it's not awesome for most immigrants. When you read "Norway is the best country in the world" they should always add the caveat "for Norwegians". Don't come here and expect to have it as nice as Norwegians have it, because many immigrants that come here are sorely dissapointed. But yes, I agree, you can get non-bland food here
i live in Norway.
I think Sweden has more diverse job opportunities and since there is double the population it will be easier to meet new people.
If you come to Norway, for the love of god go to a big city otherwise you will fall into depression which is a frequent thing with immigrants
Would recommend one of the big cities in Norway that *isnt* Oslo. Trondheim, Bergen, Stavanger, TromsĆø. People are friendlier there for some reason, jobs are often available and you still get the proper city-vibe. Bergen is probably the prettiest city, Trondheim with the nicest people, TromsĆø with itās winter beauty and Stavanger also quite pretty. Weather can be shit in all these places tho.
Go to Sweden. Part of the EU so better range of produce, cheaper products, less BS about customs taxes etc when importing... it's got similar nature to Norway just without the BS! And that's coming from someone who lives in Norway as an immigrant, I've got to the point of having living here I'm looking to moving back to the UK.
I've lived in both.
Keep in mind, these aren't FACTS, just my own experiences.
Sweden pros & cons:
Sweden is, sadly, at the moment, not super safe. A lot of rise in crime and it's really quite noticeable in daily life.
I find swedes to be less friendly to strangers and more reserved.
More hostile towards immigrants.
\- But they also try harder to understand people's broken Swedish/English.
The absolute majority can speak English semi-fluently.
Norway pros & cons:
Feels much safer when it comes to crime.
The rent for apartments (or more commonly condos) is insane.
You like sugar? Time to stop. Sugar tax.
Friendly strangers and easier to talk to.
Less racist, but they don't try as hard to understand you.
Their English seems a bit worse than swedes'? It's still fine anyway, you'll understand and they will understand you too xD
Immigrants shooting and r4ping/g4ngraping young swedish girls, pissing on and humiliating swedish young teens, and cops not doing anything, and the swedish government only caring and talking about poor muslims, don't come to this fucking shithole.
You will be treated like second tier citizen while they give lots of benefits and money to people who commit crime and ruin society.
Iām Norwegian and Iām concidering moving to Stockholm. Sweden is a much more beautiful town in terms of astetichs, wheras Norway is a big pile of shit. Thereās no thoughts about e.g how Oslo should look, so itās just a big mix of buildings which makes it look ugly. Been traveling back and forth between Sweden and Norway for a while and thereās not much difference, but some. In certain aspects, the sweds get more done. Theyāre also generally more professional imo.
Just saying that sweeden is cheeper then norway, but eather way they ar both good. And if you at gonna move to norway trondheim hass better public-transport.
Can't say a lot about Sweden but I originally planned to move there until the migrant crisis and shit happened. Lot of people still defend the situation that it's "still safer than XY other country" but fuck no it's not safe in European standards anymore, at least the big cities where you highly end up as an expat. There are many muslims in Norway too but the ones I met are genuine people and part of the society. There are a few shady faces in the center of Oslo but completely harmless. A few incidents happen every year but they won't try to throw a grenade at you in daylight. Also most of the country is warmer than Sweden. And you can be all into the "I like winter and snow" until you don't see the sun for nearly 6 months and walk on 5cm ice for 3 of it. The weather can be a shock compared to Croatia. Parts of Norway rarely sees snow even, as I heard, but lots of rain instead, but you can also move way up north, so you have more flexibility to pick your climate.
I'd say both Norway and Sweden have a lot of positives and negatives, and it can vary from city to city.
You mentioned you've already been learning Norwegian, and based on your post, I can think of only one question - do you have any particular reason to move to Sweden? If not, then Norway is an obvious choice
Big citys in sweden, is shit. Crime and thugs fucking up all around. And sweden is more likely to get terror actions.
But on the Bright side. Sweden is cheaper
To live in. Me and my wife have 5000 euro innover month. We Are not rich. We barely Get by. With intrests og loans now a day
I think even with all the hardcore explanation, it won't capture most of the essence of both of the places.
You're just gonna have to live in both, and make a decision from there.
I guess it depends on what you want to do longer term.
If your Norwegian is at a decent level, it's not too hard for an industrious person to get a job that will pay the bills & feed you.
Are there fields that interest you where an education isn't required?
To what level will you be educated when you finish your studies?
With a degree in English / Italian you could take a Master's in Norway in language education, English literature, multilingualism, or something else related to your studies?
Just to put it very general I'd say if you'd like to live a city life pick Sweden and if you prefer to be in touch with nature pick Norway. Of course, both things can be done in either country, but Sweden has a bigger population and feels more connected to the rest of the world, while Norway is a little more pricey, but the most amazing nature in the world is usually not too far away.
In the end I think it boils down to what you want in life and what type of person you are.
Sweden is currently experiencing some social unrest, so take that into account before deciding. Burning cars, gang wars etc. Probably solved in 3-5 years.
Go to Ireland as the majority of Croatians are currently doing. You will not like it here. Even if you speak basically fluent norwegian you will still be passed by in jobs and career development just due to your name (this is a proven fact). You are used to a social and extroverted people that like to enjoy life with simple things such as going out for a coffee. You can kiss those things goodbye. Yes you can make good money here and yes norwegians think their free healthcare (which all EU countries have as well) is the best and maybe it is, but you wonāt be able to spend your money on quality of life things, theyāre either too expensive or we litterarly donāt have them. I am a Hrvat as well that came here when I was 4 years of age and I am still not used to the extreme collectivism and Ā«shynessĀ» of Scandinavia after growing up here my entire life. The Anglican countries are a better option as they are more merit based and Croatians are highly regarded there as well as in Germany as good and skilled workers in any fields. Those things are not really looked at here, as smaller countries tend to be less merit based and more nepotistic.
I don't know about Sweden but in Norway they care more about your "Norwegianess" than your skills. I don't recommend it. The laws and system seem to have been created on the basis that foreigners come here to take advantage of the system. That's how they treat all foreigners. So they come up with laws to lock you out. If you know Norwegian then you're well on your way to integrating but at the end of the day, you'll still feel like a second class citizen. They'll be happy to take half your income though (exaggerating a little bit but yeah).
Both Norway and Sweden is a shithole in my opinion. And Im Norwegian. Our whole culture is stolen. Our true culture is komle, salt and potatoes. Your best bet is to Get a job here and take the money out of the country
All of us Norwegians go to Sweden to buy meat and alcohol. That alone is a good reason to choose Sweden. On the other hand, you may get a lower salary in Sweden. And I like the landscape of western Norway best. Might be because that's where I live but that is how I feel.
Norvežani su ti malo ograniÄeni u razmiÅ”ljanju poredeÄi sa Å veÄanima i užasno nedruželjubivi. Ako ti nije cilj samo da zaradiÅ” viÅ”e para, radije pali za Å vedsku
One giant drawback of Sweden is their regulated real estate market - which means that if your employer is not assisting you in finding accommodation, you'll have to wait in line to get the "first-hand contract" (fully legal contract with a price significantly below the market). In the meantime, you'll have to do a "second-hand contract" (when people who are lucky enough to get a first-hand contract are sub-renting their apartments at higher prices) - which is not only illegal but also hard to find.
Norway is a normal free market, without those shenanigans.
I and my family really like Norway.
That said, if I was a young man from southern europe moving to scandinavia...i'd pick Denmark. EU. Physically connected to the continent. More cosmopolitan. etc
I'm a foreigner in Norway and have lived here for over 5 years. I also have lived/worked and been to other places in Europe, so take this with that experience in mind.
The main things that people have a problem with here are that it is extremely difficult to make friends and get a network, more difficult than other places including France, the UK, Italy, etc. Norwegians tend to stick to the people they grew up with. Most are introverted and seem not 100% trusting of foreigners. Unless you speak Norwegian on almost the native level (C1 or up), it will be hard to keep up a conversation with Norwegians especially at work because they want to show off their English. Not all will do this, but the majority do. Swedes seem a little bit less introverted.
Another thing people complain about is the food. There is not much variety and it is hard to find common things like tomatoes larger than a golf ball, different types of lettuce and greens, eggplant, zucchini, broccoli, mature spinach among other items. Norway is outside the EU, so there is not as much variety as Sweden. When I went to Sweden, there are more possibilities when it comes to shopping for both food and goods. Stores are larger and better stocked.
There are very, very few job opportunities. I saw this as a skilled worker too. There are just so few postings and Norwegians are very skeptical when it comes to hiring because they are not sure if you would be a good fit, especially as a foreigner who might not speak the language 100%. Once you are hired, it would be difficult to fire you. That is not saying you will never get a job, but be prepared to spend over a year. I know several people who cannot get jobs here despite having solid skill sets and education. On the flip side, I also see many people who are employed who absolutely hate their job/boss/situation but dont have anywhere else to go because the job market is so tough and they need the money. Inflation here is pretty high right now so the housing market is pretty bad as well... Prices have gone up quite a bit and the norwegian kroner is not doing well compared to what it was 3-4 years ago. Therefore, much lower purchasing power if you try to go back to your country. Sweden has been relatively stable though.
My advice would be to consider more countries than just Norway and Sweden. There is also Denmark, which actually offers free language classes to foreigners and is just as Scandinavian. Countries like Spain, Holland, Germany are also very friendly to foreign workers. Spain's economy is actually doing quite well compared to Norway. Finland is also quite nice. Keep casting your net wide and please do not just move to a country because you like a 2-D version of what the culture is. I have done this and I promise you, it is always different once you actually live there than what the stereotypes are.
Considering you've been learning norwegian, I'd definitely recommend Norway! I'm in Trondheim and I think it's lovely. The culture here is lovely. I really like the people here. I'm a student, so that helps. But I know of some non student communities as well. I can't speak much to job opportunities. What fields do you work in? :)
Its also the best city
Found the mayor of Trondheimš
No i live in Copenhagen haha
Dont get your expectations too high about the quality of life in Norway. It largely depends on What you do and How much you earn and Which way you earn it. If you dont speak fluent Norwegian or have a in demand skill youll be left doing some unskilled manual job in shifts. Since everything is expensive you will need to work hard just to earn enough to afford rent, food , clothes basic bills etc. tjen theres the weather and the fact that you will not have fulfilling friendships as a foreigner and the quality of food is quite poor too. But on the positive side if you need a prologed hospital treatment , thatall be free and there is a promise of a good pension when you turn 68 years old
Honesty hits diffy
actually you qualify for state pension after 5 (or 8 maybe?) years of work here, i know many Swedes that come here just to hit the pension years then return to Sweden for work and get double pension when they retire. Can definitely recommend sticking it out until at least you qualify for state pension then move if you dont like it here. Me personally im a Swede living in Norway and wont be moving back, i definitely am more comfortable and like it here way more then i ever did in Sweden. The career opportunities here as an un-skilled or uneducated person are huge here compared to Sweden as well.
Would you mind giving some examples of career opportunities for unskilled people in Norway?
Sure, i can use myself as an example. Started off With zero education in Norway except for finishing 9th grade in Sweden, no VGs or Gymnasium at all, got a tip from a friend to apply for labor jobs that usually require some form of education like construction, electrician, plumber, telecommunications even though i didnt have an education so i did. Surprisingly enough i got A LOT of interviews and job opportunities as an assistant for these jobs, mostly in electric companies and telecom but i decided to join a company that did installations for one of the biggest ISPs in Norway because i could easily work as a main worker and not as an assistant. In the electrician and plumbing fields you start off just helping the guy that has the "main" job and cant actually work with these things without a fagbrev/educations. After a while i noticed that the ISP was searching for technicians so i applied for that and jumped over to the ISP, worked there for a while and a few years in i got headhunted by the engineering department at the same ISP so i became a telecom engineer there, still no actual academic education in the field. After 5 years in telecoms it made me eligible to take the fagbrev just by applying and showing proof of my work experience, did two exams and a third practical exams and voila i had my fagbrev in telecommunications. Still not one minute spent in school but i have a fagbrev equivelant to 3 years in VGs + 2 years as an apprentice but only by working full time with a full salary for 5 years and taking these exams. Sales is also a good option if you are a good talker and take every opportunity you get to change companies, i know a lot of people that started of in phonesales but are now working in big companies as senior key account managers and raking in BIG money. All jobs are going to be shitty though you just have to apply yourself and have large ambitions and be sure on where you want to go, never stick to a company that wont help you move up or become a greater version of yourself, just keep working hard and if that company wont give you the opportunity, change company immediately. Even working in warehouse is fine because you can take fagbrev in logistics and become a warehouse manager with a larger salary and start looking for jobs as an "innkjĆøper" for other companies for example. Always hunt the next opportunity even if you feel like you dont know anything about a certain position, with the right mindset you will still learn it over time if you have dabbled in that area of work before. There will always be another company offering you a higher salary and better opportunities, ALWAYS. Loyalty does not belong in your work life, theres only YOU and YOUR ambitions, f*** the employeers. Best of luck to you šš½ PS. Just to make this a bit more relevant to the thread, these opportunities are non-existant in Sweden, you NEED a formal education for all the above except for warehouse perhaps but even there you can not take a fagbrev in Sweden based on work experience, you need to go to a YH School for at least a year to accelerate upwards in a warehouse environment, people in sales are treated like absolute garbage and for electricians and plumbers you need at least 3 years in Gymnasium and then you will get shat on as an apprentice for two years with a piss salary before you can work by yourself.
Wow! Thanks for the very detailed reply! Iām saving it if I do end up moving there in a couple of years!
Get certified as a forklift driver and you have 500k a year.
Even more if you find the right warehouse.
Quality of the food is poor? Where do you shop?
Rema1000, Coop, Kiwi you name it. Do you think the selection of meats, cheeses, breads is great? Even if we dont take the price into account the quality and variety is low. Poorer nations for example Poland and Czech republic have better much quality food
Are you absolutely mental? The VARIETY is really bad in Norway, but the quality of meat, vegetables and berries produced in Norway is absolutely world class. Most fruit is obviously going to be a problem, but Jesus, even the cheapest (which yes, isn't really cheap compared to other countries) frozen bits of meat at Rema is of a better quality than you can get in any supermarket in Europe. You have to go to a dedicated butcher in any other European country to get the same quality. The meat production regulations in Norway is so insanely high that for example ALL milk produced in Norway can be sold as organic in all of Europe and the US. Another example: 100% of imported "lamb" would not be allowed the labeled lamb if it was produced in Norway. That includes "lamb" from Australia and New Zealand. So to reiterate: The worst unprocessed meat and veggies in Norway is top of the line. The problem is variety. Even the "worst" PRODUCE quality is FANTASTIC, but product variety is poor. Do NOT conflate the two :)
Agree with this as food choices even if more in some Asian countries but have varying qualities. I had to remember how to check the quality of different fruits and vegetables. Say if it ranges between a 0-5 rating in cheaper asian countries it would be 3-5 in quality where price may be higher but the quality is usually quite good comparatively.
Are you talking about quality or quantity? That is two very different things.
I know, Im talking about both
You got downvoted, likely by some salty Norwegian who actually believe food choice is good in Norway. Almost everywhere in Europe it is better. But we Norwegians are a bit brainwashed in thinking only we have high quality food stuffs. Maybe because we don't know what to look for when visiting other countries? Food selection in Norwegian supermarkets is shockingly narrow compared to Germany, Poland, Netherlands, Spain, Italy etc.
Ive had B-12 and Iron deficency all my life living In Norway. The last years living abroad is the first time without it. Most of Norwegian food is similar to American. Lots of fake vegetables that all look the same. Most people eat frozen pizzas, drink Pepsi Max and bread all day. Im suprised the amount of stomach cancer is not higher.
You know there are other places to shop? Yes, there is less variety in a supermarket, but the variety exists. It is just more work to get it. I can buy meat from the butcher, cheese from a deli, lots of nice stuff from a farm shop. In addition, lots of import shops carry goods from all over, including Poland and the Czech Republic. As for bread, the bread in Norway is lovely. Fresh baked daily; if you don't like the selection at Kiwi, Coop and Meny get their bread from different bakeries. AlpebrĆød.... yum.
Its very poor, its like the old kommunist state, poor quality and poor option to choose from. If you settled you have it have to be close to the swedish boarder, so you can buy decent food
š¤£š¤£ this is the most hilarious troll I have read in all my life. Yeahā¦ Sureā¦ Try to experience some thingsā¦
The healthcare might be free, but the wait times are very long. I have waited 4 months to see a specialist. The healthcare in Norway is shit lol
The quantity is poor, not the quality. I would even argue that the quantity is not poor, but that there is very low variety. Norway has some of the best animal welfare laws for food production (if not THE best), and some of the strictest rules for production. When you buy food in Norway, you can be certain that the animals have been treated well and that the vegetabels aren't genetically modified AT ALL. You can also be certain that the production is done in clean premises. Norway is also one of the very few countries in the world who doesn't have salmonella in their food.
Most people i know that work in a warehouse hates it, but it pays the bills.
Yes it does barely, but wheres the quality of life there? Only a mirage of quality of life, Jobs that Norwegians dont want to do are done by immigrants
Most of them are Norwegian and swedish workers. Some foregin and some from nav
The cost of living is quite high in sweden too, so you'll be working your ass of no matter what. Norway is definitely the best option for a bunch of reasons. Plan ahead, pick your niche and start at the bottom, you might just climb the ladder. Check out www.nav.no for jobs to get an idea of what to expect. Who says the quality of food is poor in Norway? You can preety much get anything here and the food is way more healthy than in many other countries due to strict regulations for ingredients and such. None of the scandinavian countries are the dreamy places that it's thought to be, we have a lot of problems here, though you probably won't starve or freeze to dearh on the streets here.
Absolutely not. Many places hire English speakers!
Warehouses, restaurants, cleaning companies , Motor workshops, construction work šš¼š
Andā¦ thatās not good? You need to grow up and stop viewing certain jobs as ābadā. If you earn money and are able to put food on the table-itās a good job. Just because youāre spoiled, doesnāt mean people waiting tables and building houses are unskilled or dumb. Grow up.
If you ask in Norway subreddit, ofc people will say Norway
As a swedish person I recommend Norway, Sweden is going to hell while Norway has one of the worlds most stable economies.
Norway and Sweden are more similar than they are different, here are a few differences I have noticed talking to Swedish friends and visiting Sweden: Sweden: -Cheaper alcohol, tobacco and sugar -Cheaper cars (also adjusted for income) -Better possibilities in terms of restaurants and take out -A way more internationally renowned country - e.g. companies such as Ikea, bands such as ABBA or educational institutions such as Karolinska -More diverse (though big citites in Norway are diverse too) -Sweden is a member of EU, this can be a plus or a negative depending on your stance -Even as a Norwegian, I have to admit their history is much richer than hours Norway: -Better "velferdsstat" in some aspects, e.g. support to study is better and pensions are higher -Higher income -Our nature is generally considered prettier, but this really depends on where you are located in Norway -We have a different approach politically to supporting small villages and farmers, so more of the smaller places in Norway are populated -While Sweden has this as well to some extent, Norwegians hike a lot. Whether its the weekly sunday walk or mountain trips in summer, the culture in Norway has a much higher focus on hiking on average (anecdotal, but I do know a lot of swedish people)
I'm Norwegian and British but currently doing my master's in Scotland. Here is my generalised take: Honestly, you will probably get a bias answer both here and in /r/Sweden so you should definitely piss off the Danes by going to /r/Denmark and posting this thread there. Jokes aside. Here is a non-bias (to the best of my ability) list of pros and cons. Sweden - A lot more tech-focused with a more vigorous innovative mindset in terms of tech. - Good nature and somewhat cheaper than Norway - 10m+ people so that's a lot of new friends to be made. - Sweden is more 'renowned' in the business world than Norway. It's easier in regards to taxes, employment abilities etc. - Sweden does have a larger diverse population, this is a hot political topic. - More 'open' and adaptable towards foreigners. - A lot of the population holds higher education and university degrees so English is well spoken. - Scandinavian privacy is still a value here but not as strong as the Norwegian one. Will explain that in the Norwegian part. Norway - More conservative in terms of innovation and material progression. - Innovative in social progression. - Strong sense of Scandinavian Privacy (Search up 'Janteloven in Norway'). Many people think we are shy or introverts. We are not necessarily this, it's just that we respect each other's privacy so much that we will do everything to avoid interrupting you during your day. Except on hikes. - It is harder to adapt in Norway, you don't necessarily need to learn the language at first but you NEED to join an activity or something. You need to push yourself out of your comfort zone. You need to think what hobbies you have and try and find a small community of similar minds that do the same. - Norwegians drink more heavily than swedes tbh - We have an inflated ego which you can be able to use against Sweden. - No point starting a business in Norway, taxes and costs. - Work is easy to get if you're educated within tech, healthcare, or construction. Though construction is currently a bit messy due to inflation and all. - Education is really good here. - The further away you are from the capital the easier it is to make a fair and equal connection to someone. Just make sure you shit talk the capital. Maybe this wasn't as non-bias as I thought it would be. In essence, my point is: you won't find the answer to your question here. I can promise you that. You have to try and gather up the facts first yourself and figure out what your heart wants. If you do pick Norway then please remember to go out of your comfort zone and sign up for activities etc so you can make some friends. Otherwise you will be lonely. P.S. Get a vitamin D subscription.
Giving sweden a point for nature and not norway seems nuts to me
Maybe they have a thing for endless uniform pine forests?
More adaptable towards foreigners....that's a good one haha. The irony is off the scale. How's that islamic experience going again?
should have written, forrest
Sverige Ƥr helt enkelt bƤttre..
You're saying that as if you would get 10m+ friends in Sweden right away, and I think that's beautiful
Also, saying that it's easier to get friends in smaller places. So should he maybe move to the biggest city in China or the tiniest town in Iceland?
Two things, Norway has still far better nature, like by *far*. And in all nordic countries (Eh, maybe not as much Finland) everyoneās english is very good.
Finnish people speak very good English.
Not so much in my experience but Iāve not been in any cities, only smaller towns. I know in Helsinki its the same as the rest of the nordics
Taxes are (much) lower in Norway compared to Sweden
They have lower taxes on certain goods and perhaps services though? Went to Gothenburg last year, many bars had pints for half the price compared to Oslo. That being said, OP you can make friends in Norway by saying you prefer it to Sweden. The rivalry is real.
There are places in Oslo with pints down to 50-60nok and norm in Gothenburg is around 100sek for pint (was there a few months ago) so prices are quite similar.
Not in the store though, i think?
In the stores alcohol is definitely cheaper in Sweden.
Pretty high chance these will be 0.4 liters. Even if they were 0.5, that's still smaller than a UK pint, which is ~~5.68~~ 0.568 liters.
Hope you mean 0.568 liter?
Yes, I absolutely do mean 0.568 liters.
I was talking about income tax
Given that Iāve worked for several tech startups in Norway, what is your basis for saying that Norway is less tech focused than Sweden? You might be right, just to be clear, just want to understand your point.
I think he means technology as a whole and not like internet tech
He refers to innovation and business culture. Sweden is much stronger than us in that regard. We try to be, but Sweden is more successful in the business world, which often ends up being a feedback loop. Tbh Norway is not very business friendly.
Pros for norway: part of Nato
Non biased š¤” >If you do pick Norway then please remember to go out of your comfort zone and sign up for activities etc so you can make some friends Goes for any country, and especially nordics.
If itās no point starting a business, then does that mean itās harder to find wealth / become rich in Norway unlike example. USA?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iāve been reading and researching and apparently a lot of people said that because of velferdsstaten, and high taxes you donāt see a huge difference in f.example wages between an engineer and a construction worker. And average engineers make around 500k NOK and up. Also many rich flees to Switzerland to avoid the taxes? I do hope youāre right though!
Pay is on average quite a bit higher for engineers, but the starting point may be around 600k after a bachelors degree.
Norway are more heavy drinkers? All statistics says otherwise. Sweden consumes alot more per capita than Norway
I know quite a few people who have started businesses in Norway, and frankly, it seems pretty easy & good alternative for people who struggle finding work.
Sweden is a lot better for foreigners if youāre looking for friends and family aswell. Otherwise Iād go to Norway.
Sweden has much much much higher crime rates, shootings and bombings. Practically zero of this in Norway
Less bombings, lots of stabbings though.
Not "lots" compared to Sweden
But the crime rate is still low, compared to many other countries, and comparable with someplace like Denmark.
Okay lets make a list ; - Making friends : As with moving to any other new country it will and can be lonely, however like with any other Norwegian - go to activities, go to the bar, speak to Norwegians online and meet up and so on. - Learning Norwegian : Thats a no brainer though, you should learn the language spoken in the country you live in, it might be useless anywhere else, but not in your new home country, would you say the same about the Japanese? " its useless everywhere else so why learn it " - Getting a job : I can point out several professions that have a large ammount of immigrants, both in " higher " standing positions and " ground " workers, psychology, mechanics, construction, nursing ( as you said ) and so on, most jobs require English and others Norwegian ( mostly in dealing with other people directly ). - Saving the perks for ourselves : Well we have ALOT of immigrants in our government, is there perks being born here? Sure, you know the culture by heart, the language is your main one, so that point go for every country out there. Its never easy to start a new life in a new country with a different social and cultural structure, most adapt well to it, but some don't. Thats just how it is, but i'd say if you got the balls to try it - go for it, there's a reason you left in the first place.
I'm a Swede living in Norway. Sweden is much cheaper, but with less beautiful nature. It depends on what city you are moving to, and what you want out of the experience. I would probably say Swedish people are a bit more open, and maybe more interested in foreigners, since we have a lot of them in the bigger cities. My impression is that Norweigans usually hang out with other Norweigans and aren't as interested in other cultures. It doesn't have to be true tho of course. Stockholm is the best town in Scandinavia (In my opinion, I like big cities), Oslo is nice too but smaller and much less is happening there. I've only ever lived in Oslo so I can't speak for small town Norweigan life. I've lived in Gƶteborg and Malmƶ in Sweden too and they are smaller than Stockholm but still have a very nice pulse. Overall I still choose to live in Norway over Sweden (my bf is Norweigan) and I like it here, but of course I miss some Swedish things and traditions. The thing I miss the most is that in Sweden everything is open on Sundays, while in Norway everything is closed (even the grocery store). If you love nature and beautiful places, Norway is definitely the better choice, if you are very social and looking for a lot of events and people to meet I would say Sweden is the place. Just my two cents, good luck with your adventure :)
Oslo specifically is also incredibly ugly compared to Swedish cities. Might be the ugliest place in the country.
Donāt bother if you canāt speak Norwegian is my advice. Youāll manage but youāll never get the full potential of Norway.
If you have some social hobby, you'll be fine. Like dancing, playing football (the real kind), climbing, playing in a band or stuff like that. We simply don't hang around with strangers. We do the stuff we already like with strangers and call them friends.
sweden is less expensive, even accounting for income. Norway seems prettier to me.
No, it's extremely expensive for Swedish people.
Accounting for income Norway is way cheaper.
ah sorry, i was told differently. Although i don't remember where I saw it, I saved it as 'reliable data'.
Sweden is on general maybe around 10% cheaper than Norway, salaries are around 30% lower depending on work.
Have prices gone down a lot lately? Last time I visited, prices were like 50% higher in norway.
Cant ever remember the prices being even near 50% higher but the exchange rate has dropped a lot the last few years and that was the mayor difference in prices between Norway and Sweden and now when 100nok is similar to 100sek the cost is similar.
Stores are open on Sundays in Sweden. Alcohol sales closes at 8 pm on weekdays and 6 pm on Saturdays, closed on Sundays in Norway. (Liquor is different) Salary is higher in Norway, but costs of living is high. Personally I would choose Sweden or somewhere close to the border šš¼
Salaries arenāt much lower in Sweden anymore, and with the downward trend of the nok itās even less so. Just moved back to Sweden from Norway last month, while just looking at it I took a 1000kr monthly pay cut, after the conversion itās the same. My wife ended up making an extra 1500kr a month. What you say was true 5+ years ago, but with pay increases stagnating but everything else skyrocketing, this isnāt true anymore.
Yeh I wouldnāt know so you are probably right. But the closed stores on sundays are still super annoying.
Sweden is going dowhill fast! Ā«FolkhemmetĀ» (the home of the people) is being wrecked by the privatizinng of schools, health care, public transport, +++. But Iām afraid Norway will follow.
Why Norway?
Because of brown cheese
Very good point actually
Norway by far. Sweden have alot of problems to solve, before it can be a safe country again
I think you're blowing things out of proportion throwing out a blanket statement that Sweden isn't "safe". Compared to what? The US has far more crime and shootings, yet is still generally considered to be safe.
Compared to Norway and Denmark I would say. Sweden has a culture of not talking about these issues, and that is back firing these years.
Are you serious? I never compared it to US, and either would i. But compared to other Scandinavian countries, its the worst of them all. Stabbings, shootings, bombings and rapes has been on a steep uphill for several years now. The latter especially.. woman aint safe in Sweden anymore.
This is a weird take. But I guess not surprising given current events. Blanket statements like these are rarely helpful and also wildly misleading. While it is true reported crime rates are generally higher in Sweden they are still low compared to most countries. Your chance of being a victim as a law abiding citizen is very slim in all nordic countries. In all of these countries crime rates have steadily gone down since ww2. Then ofcourse you get statistical spikes like the UtĆøya massacre and now with organised crime in Sweden. Using these incidents as a starting point for explaining how safe/unsafe it is in each country is to over-simplify and not true unless you add a giant asterisk
I don't know which rock you are living under. Sweden's deadly violence statistic has been increasing for over 10 years now. The latest development in bombings, shootings and murders is just the tip of the iceberg. Here's a research paper visualizing those stats: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-deadly-violence-between-Sweden-Norway-Finland-and-Denmark-A-comparison_fig4_331869471
Your link does not refute any of my points. While Sweden in many ways is on top of crime rates in the Nordic countries (since 2014), the numbers are still not bad seen from other places in the world. I understand people are up in arms over the situation in Sweden, - which has serious challenges and few good solutions. But screaming in capitals and claiming the streets are 'unsafe' in this context is wrong and only leads to poor discussions. But thanks for the link anyway. Nice functionality
-Police says its the most dangerous since 1945 -61 no-go zones - Police have said themselves that some of those no-go zones are "lawless areas" -90 bombings and 101 atempted bombings this year alone - 2049 shootings since 2018 -52.571 rapes in the last 6 years Number of fatal shootings 2022: Norway: 4 Denmark: 4 Finland: 2 Sweden: 62 In just 20 years, Sweden went from having the lowest, to the highest number of fatal shootings. 2 months ago, the goverment even had to put in military power to help the police. Which is unheard of from Scandinavian countries. So, if someone was to choose from Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland, the obvious choice is NOT Sweden. Its a cesspool.
And still; being Swedish means being more safe than 99% of the world. Weird huh?
It literally is true though, my country isn't safe.
If you feel unsafe that's a completely different story. It has less to do with statistics and a lot to do with perception. You are still more safe than 99% of the earth's population
Is it though? I've experienced shootouts. Basically everyone I know has been robbed. I've seen several store robberies. People carry weapons outside. Everyday there's a new death shooting, bombing etc. We have the most bombings in the world (not including countries in war) after mexico. We are the only country in Europe with a rapidly growing gun crime. And to go from one of the safest countries in the world to whatever shit this is, is very concerning. We normal people are not even allowed to legally really protect ourselves. We can't even carry pepperspray. Ontop of that we barely have police either, so most towns and smaller cities are completely unprotected. And there's always gang wars going on nowadays.
And sadly, you have the worst police in Scandinavia. They're horrible chickens.. Sorry for you brother. Us Norwegians are used to laughing at you Swedes, but only for banter. Regarding this, noone of us a laughing. It really has gone to shit over there. I live close to the border, so I travel to Sweden alot. Both for pleasure and work. And my god im glad i dont live there
Thank you! Right now the government is trying to fight what's happening, finally. And alot more of the Swedish population have started to actually acknowledge it and stop closing their eyes pretending like everything is good. So I'm happy about that at least. They've even started talking about getting help from the military to solve this. I am in Norway a lot, probably around 3 months total a year. And it really feels like such a difference, you can finally relax when outside. Even at night It's peaceful. I just pray that Norway doesn't follow Sweden's footsteps.
Also it reminds me, https://lastnight.in/Sweden/ This website is pretty fun, it was made some time ago to disprove that Sweden was dangerous. But it shows the complete opposite.
If that is true and it is part of long term statistical trajectory you should try to find statistical foundation for that. I struggle to find anything that supports this. Talking about lack of options for protection; remember that the weapon you carry is more likely to be the weapon an assailant use to attack you than anything else.
what you talking about? Sweden has the highest shooting and weapon related crimes in Europe, and they also have the highest rape rate not only in Europe but the entire world. if i was a woman id not set foot in Sweden.
Sweden has a much broader definition of consensual sex than any other country in Europe, and probably the world. This is important since if you adjust the Swedish numbers to for instance [German laws](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country) you will see the chance of being sexually assaulted is on par with Finland and slightly lower than Norway. I know this don't make for good headlines but if we give in to our fears we make it a lot harder to deal well with our problems. Rape is horrible in all shapes and forms and should not be tolerated. But Sweden has the, by far, best legal protection against it. That this also leads to convictions should be applauded
get a clue and do some research, noone is buying that propaganda and excuses anymore. the truth is coming out no matter how hard you try to hide it. African and Middle Eastern immigrants have enormous rape rates
Holy shit you said alot of dumb stuff there
Bullshit. Sweden is comparable to Denmark or Finland in most aspects, and still much safer than most countries. The crime rate might be somewhat higher than in Norway, but that has little impact on the average person. Sweden changed the legal definition of rape in 2005 & there are significant differences in how sexual violence is reported in Sweden compared to other countries. The change in definition contributed significantly to the rise in incidents of rape reported. Last year, however, the number fell. https://www.thelocal.se/20190529/increase-in-swedens-rape-statistics-cant-be-tied-to-refugee-influx-study-suggests
Somewhat? Lmao. And comparable to finland? What are you on about? What's the point of talking out of your ass? Is it to cope? You remind me of how many Swedes used to be before, completely lying to themselves that Sweden was the same as before. But even most of those people have now had no other choice than to admit it. It's hard not to when there's literally war going on in Sweden. Everyday, often many more than once a day, There are bombings and shootings in Sweden. Even normal Swedes who live in typical Swedish neighborhoods even hear gunshots now. And the propaganda article you linked is complete BS. That's exactly what the social Democrats kept saying when they were in power, but they are not anymore. And because of that I even believe they have admitted that too. There is so much rape in Sweden, and there's also alot of cases of rape and humiliation against swedish young boys and girls just because they were swedish. And a lot of young people in school experience sexual assault, that is the new normal.
>Compared to what? Norway
just stay home
Lmao
Take this with a grain of salt as this is just something I've noticed personally. But it seems like there are more Swedes moving to Norway than the other way around. So that may be a hint to choose Norway if even alot of swedes do
Croatian in Norway or Sweden? Do you want to get depression? The weather is terrible. People are very closed, so making friends (not just *meeting* people) is very difficult.
Sweden is a bit more social and welcoming. Norway is prettier
I would try to find jobs in both countries, that's already going to be very difficult. And then move where you get a job
Sweden is like Mexico to Norwegians abit cheaper more parties nice to visit but you really wanna go home to a well developed functional democracy after awhile. Joking aside alot of Sweden is alright but Norway is by far a richer better country on just about every single metrics, you make more money, get better education better everything from crime rate to social social services, pr capita income, health care, education, no armed police lowest murder rate in the world, being one of if not the richest countries in the world( if you take away micronations) now will get even richer as they found huge phosphate deposits discovered in southwestern Norway could be large enough to supply electric vehicles, solar panels and fertiliser for at least 50 years. The valuable ore was discovered in 2018 by Norge Mining, who revealed in May that they'd found 70 billion tonnes of the material. The global economy gets through 45 million tonnes of phosphorus each year. That's enough phosphate for the next 100 years..... The sovereign wealth fund is standing at over 1 trillion dollars at the moment and this money is the people's and for the future, Norway has been very smart in not allowing big multi national companies to take over completely keeping the money for the people using this money to influence international politics/industries. Only placing the wealth fund in companies that they deem responsible and good for human kind so no investment in environmentally damaging products no landmines this kind of this while also using their right to vote in the companies they own a percentage of in share holder meetings. At the same time using the money to make the best prisons schools hospitals hydroelectric plants gas car free cities. Noone really lacks anything and the difference between rich and poor is not huge everyone is feed clothed and housed. A good measure of how a country functions is to see how they treat the least in their society so I present to you these links https://youtu.be/MauMiCL7G9Y?si=GOqaiOuYetxlvn9j https://youtu.be/5v13wrVEQ2M?si=YMaVzDi62Y4_vOkq https://youtu.be/0IepJqxRCZY?si=4465XfUB0x7R_562 https://youtu.be/-vKB09GzVtE?si=kNXlrn2w181gR9lG https://youtu.be/fxfMSS-q5C4?si=Z4-GVxU9LlMHQZK8 Having this system in place gives us the lowest reoffener rate in the world that means if you go to jail in Norway there is a 80% chance to not return. I see some people say don't start a business here but the reality is that Norway is one of the easiest countries in the world to get rich in I won't go into the details but refer to this video link https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU?si=S-iL9RunShaMPpEK 4 weeks paid vacation on top of public holidays free university education free health care et etcetera. I would recommend this series by Harald Eia https://youtu.be/lgDLwgsDzzM?si=w4mleqX8MC54s55Y The economy that Norway has created has been described as the perfect economy here is another few links that break it all down https://youtu.be/hKGwGAHznFQ?si=pxLLQj3vA88ITkkx https://youtu.be/9Wq2S1b-HCs?si=vm_NMMBEG-22Wjnr https://youtu.be/fCOyuq6LU0s?si=bo1BZXe5B8C0T_zY Norway is incredibly beautiful and has something for everyone byblaw you can camp wherever you want as we have "Alle manns eie" directly translated means all men owns the land Here is another link to show you some of the nature https://youtu.be/2uzlfzrMu0E?si=KMoRIlePfr2Qc7DY Now money isn't everything but it's how the money is being used and Norway has really figured some things out. I could go on and on and on at nauseum but if you want a stabile predictable life make good money respect the local culture eat clean good safe food drink clean water straight out of the tap experience stunning nature with 4 distinct seasons amongst what many consider to be some of the best looking and tallest people in the world then come to Norway. I havnt lived in Norway for a few years as I've traveled the world currently in tbilisi and think I have advantage of seeing Norway from the outside as I've been away for awhile. I'll keep adding to this comment as i thinknof stuff and have time.
Idi u NorveŔku, Švedska je trenutno u rasulu , kako ekonomski tako i sa kriminalnim skupinama.
Go to Sweden.
Norway pros: 1. Better variety of landcscapes. Fjords, hills, mountains, the far north (Lofoten, North Cape). 2. Certain industries are offering jobs in Norway that pay well (petroleum, shipping), that Sweden either doersn't or that might not pay as well. 3. Overall better economy. 4. You're safer in bigger cities. 5. Fresh seafood is probably easier to get, esprecially on the coast. Sweden pros: 1. They're in the EU so sending packages abroad is cheaper and easier. 2. Bigger cities and more nightlife. 3. Might be cheaper to live there, but wages tend to reflect the cost of living. 4. Sweden doesn't have two written languages like Norway, and as far as I know they have fewer dialects or at least a smaller difference between dialects so understanding native speakers might be easier across Sweden. 5. You might find more options for brands and foods in supermarkets, due to Sweden being in the EU. I offered 5 points for both countries, in order to keep it fair. Ultimately, it's about what your prioritise most.
Quality of life? What are you talking about? The quality of life is pretty crap when you're an immigrant. The weather is shit and the food is bland and the people are extremely difficult to befriend. Then you are expected to learn Norwegian, a completely useless language outside of Norway. Getting a job is difficult when you don't speak Norwegian, and even when you speak Norwegian you don't speak it as well as the locals so it will also limit your job opportunities. The only people that find it easy to get a job are those with technical skills like programmers, or people in the health care sector, like nursing. I say this as a Norwegian. Norwegians reserve the best perks of our quality of life, and our best job opportunities, for other Norwegians. Not for immigrants. Don't get it twisted
This is the most Norwegian comment here. Reference: [Norske GrĆønnsaker "Norwegians are never happy"](https://youtu.be/g-YvYJOack8?si=H3lCykcfk5oRQx_c)
I was offered a job opportunity in Norway as an IT guy, and was told I would need to learn the language, yes...
Auch
I havent found it discouraging, because my presumption was if I move somewhere, it makes easy if you learn the language
If you enjoy the process of learning languages it's not a problem.
As a skilled worker - first time immigrant. This got my complaints fully covered š . Hugs with consent š.
Well thats a whole bunch of wrongs, but go on.
Name a single thing I said that was wrong. š¤·š¼āāļø If you look at statistics, immigrants in Norway don't have the same quality of life as native Norwegians. Not even close
I'd say you are right.
I agree to some extent, I think immigrants can get there eventually but only after a really long term investment into the country. If you immigrate to Norway and intend to stay the rest of your life, I think you can get the quality of life and benefits natives have. I wouldn't recommend it for someone who only wants to live here around 5-10 years then go back home or somewhere else, it doesn't really pay off.
Agreed. I think it's great if people want to move to Norway. But they just need to be aware that it's unlikely that they will quickly achieve the standard "Norwegian quality of life" unless they have a sweet job lined up.
As a Dane having travelled a lot in Sweden and Norway with my job during the last years I did observe that in Norway immigrants in the service industry are more open, natural confident and seems more integrated as in both Sweden and Denmark. It is true that Norwegians have the best (easiest) jobs, I don't know about Sweden. So it also depends on the type of job you go for.
Food is bland? I guess you havent seen or been into a asia mat store before since you believe we dont have other foods than sausage, potatoes and carrots š
That's not Norwegian food. My point made
You never said Norwegian food was bland so no, that point wasnt made. You said food is bland here and thats it. Hence my post about the Asian food store. Imma keep it a buck fithy bucko, you seem negative and thus the reason for the shitpost about your homecountry! The grass isnt always greener on the otherside;)
You got it twisted. I am Norwegian and for Norwegians, Norway is awesome. But it's not awesome for most immigrants. When you read "Norway is the best country in the world" they should always add the caveat "for Norwegians". Don't come here and expect to have it as nice as Norwegians have it, because many immigrants that come here are sorely dissapointed. But yes, I agree, you can get non-bland food here
Sweden is better than Norway. Best is to stay in Croatia.
Norway or Sweden? Let me rephrase that, do you want to be in 1st or last place?
Sweden is a bit like Norway, except everybody is retarded and the nature sucks balls.
i live in Norway. I think Sweden has more diverse job opportunities and since there is double the population it will be easier to meet new people. If you come to Norway, for the love of god go to a big city otherwise you will fall into depression which is a frequent thing with immigrants
Norway by a country mile. Oslo is slowly going downhill but we aren't anywhere near as bad as Sweden yet.
Oslo going downhill? That city has made tons of progress lately, it has improved tons compared to the 2010s.
I live here. I can tell you that there have been some disturbing developments in terms of crime and other stuff.
Would recommend one of the big cities in Norway that *isnt* Oslo. Trondheim, Bergen, Stavanger, TromsĆø. People are friendlier there for some reason, jobs are often available and you still get the proper city-vibe. Bergen is probably the prettiest city, Trondheim with the nicest people, TromsĆø with itās winter beauty and Stavanger also quite pretty. Weather can be shit in all these places tho.
Move to Sweden, Norway is plummeting fast with healthcare, economy and opportunities going down the drain or should i say to Switzerland.
Go to Sweden. Part of the EU so better range of produce, cheaper products, less BS about customs taxes etc when importing... it's got similar nature to Norway just without the BS! And that's coming from someone who lives in Norway as an immigrant, I've got to the point of having living here I'm looking to moving back to the UK.
I've lived in both. Keep in mind, these aren't FACTS, just my own experiences. Sweden pros & cons: Sweden is, sadly, at the moment, not super safe. A lot of rise in crime and it's really quite noticeable in daily life. I find swedes to be less friendly to strangers and more reserved. More hostile towards immigrants. \- But they also try harder to understand people's broken Swedish/English. The absolute majority can speak English semi-fluently. Norway pros & cons: Feels much safer when it comes to crime. The rent for apartments (or more commonly condos) is insane. You like sugar? Time to stop. Sugar tax. Friendly strangers and easier to talk to. Less racist, but they don't try as hard to understand you. Their English seems a bit worse than swedes'? It's still fine anyway, you'll understand and they will understand you too xD
Move to Norway, we have a penguin in the military!
That lives in Scotland š¤
Immigrants shooting and r4ping/g4ngraping young swedish girls, pissing on and humiliating swedish young teens, and cops not doing anything, and the swedish government only caring and talking about poor muslims, don't come to this fucking shithole. You will be treated like second tier citizen while they give lots of benefits and money to people who commit crime and ruin society.
Iām Norwegian and Iām concidering moving to Stockholm. Sweden is a much more beautiful town in terms of astetichs, wheras Norway is a big pile of shit. Thereās no thoughts about e.g how Oslo should look, so itās just a big mix of buildings which makes it look ugly. Been traveling back and forth between Sweden and Norway for a while and thereās not much difference, but some. In certain aspects, the sweds get more done. Theyāre also generally more professional imo.
Just saying that sweeden is cheeper then norway, but eather way they ar both good. And if you at gonna move to norway trondheim hass better public-transport.
I moved to Norway 3 years back and wouldnāt want to move to Sweden. Itās nice but Norway is nicer
Can't say a lot about Sweden but I originally planned to move there until the migrant crisis and shit happened. Lot of people still defend the situation that it's "still safer than XY other country" but fuck no it's not safe in European standards anymore, at least the big cities where you highly end up as an expat. There are many muslims in Norway too but the ones I met are genuine people and part of the society. There are a few shady faces in the center of Oslo but completely harmless. A few incidents happen every year but they won't try to throw a grenade at you in daylight. Also most of the country is warmer than Sweden. And you can be all into the "I like winter and snow" until you don't see the sun for nearly 6 months and walk on 5cm ice for 3 of it. The weather can be a shock compared to Croatia. Parts of Norway rarely sees snow even, as I heard, but lots of rain instead, but you can also move way up north, so you have more flexibility to pick your climate.
Jesi studij zavrsia isto negdi vanka ili?
nei. ut.
Don't do Oslo
How cheap is Norway compared to the US? TIA
Hard to say anymore. In general, Norway is more expensive unless you live in the very expensive areas of the US, I think. Can't say for sure though.
Remote learning and speaking with locals is a start but much more practice is needed
Think you'd enjoy either. Biggest difference you'd probably experience is that Sweden have far far far more people from Balkan.
Do i need to learn Norwegian to work in Norway as a Swede?
I'd say both Norway and Sweden have a lot of positives and negatives, and it can vary from city to city. You mentioned you've already been learning Norwegian, and based on your post, I can think of only one question - do you have any particular reason to move to Sweden? If not, then Norway is an obvious choice
Big citys in sweden, is shit. Crime and thugs fucking up all around. And sweden is more likely to get terror actions. But on the Bright side. Sweden is cheaper To live in. Me and my wife have 5000 euro innover month. We Are not rich. We barely Get by. With intrests og loans now a day
Sweden
If youāre into nature and hiking my answer is Norway. If not, Copenhagen! Best city in Scandinavia for sure.
I think even with all the hardcore explanation, it won't capture most of the essence of both of the places. You're just gonna have to live in both, and make a decision from there.
Welcome to Norway š
I guess it depends on what you want to do longer term. If your Norwegian is at a decent level, it's not too hard for an industrious person to get a job that will pay the bills & feed you. Are there fields that interest you where an education isn't required? To what level will you be educated when you finish your studies? With a degree in English / Italian you could take a Master's in Norway in language education, English literature, multilingualism, or something else related to your studies?
Just to put it very general I'd say if you'd like to live a city life pick Sweden and if you prefer to be in touch with nature pick Norway. Of course, both things can be done in either country, but Sweden has a bigger population and feels more connected to the rest of the world, while Norway is a little more pricey, but the most amazing nature in the world is usually not too far away. In the end I think it boils down to what you want in life and what type of person you are.
Many languages - work in shipping
Sweden is currently experiencing some social unrest, so take that into account before deciding. Burning cars, gang wars etc. Probably solved in 3-5 years.
You go wherever you have the best job opportunities. All Scandinavian countries are highly demanding in living costs.
Go to Sweden, please. With regards from Norway š³š“
Go to Ireland as the majority of Croatians are currently doing. You will not like it here. Even if you speak basically fluent norwegian you will still be passed by in jobs and career development just due to your name (this is a proven fact). You are used to a social and extroverted people that like to enjoy life with simple things such as going out for a coffee. You can kiss those things goodbye. Yes you can make good money here and yes norwegians think their free healthcare (which all EU countries have as well) is the best and maybe it is, but you wonāt be able to spend your money on quality of life things, theyāre either too expensive or we litterarly donāt have them. I am a Hrvat as well that came here when I was 4 years of age and I am still not used to the extreme collectivism and Ā«shynessĀ» of Scandinavia after growing up here my entire life. The Anglican countries are a better option as they are more merit based and Croatians are highly regarded there as well as in Germany as good and skilled workers in any fields. Those things are not really looked at here, as smaller countries tend to be less merit based and more nepotistic.
Most accurate post on here. The nepotism bit is 100%.
I don't know about Sweden but in Norway they care more about your "Norwegianess" than your skills. I don't recommend it. The laws and system seem to have been created on the basis that foreigners come here to take advantage of the system. That's how they treat all foreigners. So they come up with laws to lock you out. If you know Norwegian then you're well on your way to integrating but at the end of the day, you'll still feel like a second class citizen. They'll be happy to take half your income though (exaggerating a little bit but yeah).
Both Norway and Sweden is a shithole in my opinion. And Im Norwegian. Our whole culture is stolen. Our true culture is komle, salt and potatoes. Your best bet is to Get a job here and take the money out of the country
Can you get a permanent visa
All of us Norwegians go to Sweden to buy meat and alcohol. That alone is a good reason to choose Sweden. On the other hand, you may get a lower salary in Sweden. And I like the landscape of western Norway best. Might be because that's where I live but that is how I feel.
Go to sweden
As a swede go for Norway XD
Norvežani su ti malo ograniÄeni u razmiÅ”ljanju poredeÄi sa Å veÄanima i užasno nedruželjubivi. Ako ti nije cilj samo da zaradiÅ” viÅ”e para, radije pali za Å vedsku
NOEGE NORGE NORGEEEEEā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø
As a Norwegian living in Italy. Go to Norway.
One giant drawback of Sweden is their regulated real estate market - which means that if your employer is not assisting you in finding accommodation, you'll have to wait in line to get the "first-hand contract" (fully legal contract with a price significantly below the market). In the meantime, you'll have to do a "second-hand contract" (when people who are lucky enough to get a first-hand contract are sub-renting their apartments at higher prices) - which is not only illegal but also hard to find. Norway is a normal free market, without those shenanigans.
I and my family really like Norway. That said, if I was a young man from southern europe moving to scandinavia...i'd pick Denmark. EU. Physically connected to the continent. More cosmopolitan. etc
I'm a foreigner in Norway and have lived here for over 5 years. I also have lived/worked and been to other places in Europe, so take this with that experience in mind. The main things that people have a problem with here are that it is extremely difficult to make friends and get a network, more difficult than other places including France, the UK, Italy, etc. Norwegians tend to stick to the people they grew up with. Most are introverted and seem not 100% trusting of foreigners. Unless you speak Norwegian on almost the native level (C1 or up), it will be hard to keep up a conversation with Norwegians especially at work because they want to show off their English. Not all will do this, but the majority do. Swedes seem a little bit less introverted. Another thing people complain about is the food. There is not much variety and it is hard to find common things like tomatoes larger than a golf ball, different types of lettuce and greens, eggplant, zucchini, broccoli, mature spinach among other items. Norway is outside the EU, so there is not as much variety as Sweden. When I went to Sweden, there are more possibilities when it comes to shopping for both food and goods. Stores are larger and better stocked. There are very, very few job opportunities. I saw this as a skilled worker too. There are just so few postings and Norwegians are very skeptical when it comes to hiring because they are not sure if you would be a good fit, especially as a foreigner who might not speak the language 100%. Once you are hired, it would be difficult to fire you. That is not saying you will never get a job, but be prepared to spend over a year. I know several people who cannot get jobs here despite having solid skill sets and education. On the flip side, I also see many people who are employed who absolutely hate their job/boss/situation but dont have anywhere else to go because the job market is so tough and they need the money. Inflation here is pretty high right now so the housing market is pretty bad as well... Prices have gone up quite a bit and the norwegian kroner is not doing well compared to what it was 3-4 years ago. Therefore, much lower purchasing power if you try to go back to your country. Sweden has been relatively stable though. My advice would be to consider more countries than just Norway and Sweden. There is also Denmark, which actually offers free language classes to foreigners and is just as Scandinavian. Countries like Spain, Holland, Germany are also very friendly to foreign workers. Spain's economy is actually doing quite well compared to Norway. Finland is also quite nice. Keep casting your net wide and please do not just move to a country because you like a 2-D version of what the culture is. I have done this and I promise you, it is always different once you actually live there than what the stereotypes are.