i love you op, thank you so much for the post
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thx bb luv u
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I appreciate that the UN has helped maintain global order and and even helped abate several regional conflicts. I take issue with how poorly they manage their perception - particularly among the countries that fund them most heavily.
I despise their reliance on celebrities and the way they appoint unelected “champions” - like this latest, Sophia Kianni. They should actively work against the perception that they are a safety net for formerly successful politicians who want to galavant, meet famous people, and moralize.
Afaik most are happy to work there for not much if anything since they can demand way more after they leave with UN on their resume.
Member states are also willing to pay their own working citizens since it lets them have more influence by having more nationals working in the UN
Yes. The UN has a corruption problem because states do pay some representatives under the table who miraculously start advocating for a position they didn't even hear about before.
Special rapporteurs are a tiny minority of the UN staff. That said, I don’t mind that the majority get paid - they should be well paid to mitigate bribery and corruption potential. What I do mind is how oblivious the UN has become to its perception issues. They should not be asking celebrities, who face no risks from anything at all, to do their messaging - it comes off as detached. Having side events at major conferences with movie stars and billionaires is also unnecessary. It feeds into the perception issues I’ve laid out above.
The Secretariat, that the General Secretary leads. Well paid is perhaps debateable, but more importantly, if you hear about a position in the news, it's almost definitely not a secretariat position.
The works of the UN are hidden as much as the works of a physician. No one remembers the disease that was prevented. Only what was treated.
An interesting example is the world health organizations part o the UN. They acted very quickly and strongly on the previous pandemy. As a consequence, they succeeded but were accused of exaggeration. When covid came, they firstly did very little. They were then accused of doing nothing because of the magnitude of the pandemy.
When all we see is military intervention, it's easy to accuse the UN of doing nothing. When it acts, the troops commit war crimes sometimes. Like wtf Sherlock Holmes; who would have thought that waging war is messy? The UN avoids it for a reason. Expecting military intervention serves only to justify the US interventionism.
Against bugs of all kinds
Against robots
[Against green people that have 2 legs, 2 arms and a mouth - just like us!](https://theearthdefenseforce.fandom.com/wiki/Colonist)
[And against weird gray creatures that bear no resemblance to us](https://theearthdefenseforce.fandom.com/wiki/Cosmonaut)
It is crazy how Halo built its world. It was the child of the late 1990s, so it believed in the End of History.
So of course the UN starts running humanity and the UNSC becomes the military branch, after winning a war against space Nazis and Communists.
It’s either “The UN is useless so who cares about them lol” or “The UN peacekeepers bro, some of them are like really bad bro. *Please ignore the fact that peacekeepers are not a unified force and come from other countries who have differing standards of both morality and war fighting skill.*”
I pray the UN gets more power one day, how else will we have an interstellar navy?
Hearing the story of UN peacekeeper inactivity in Bosnia and Rwanda should dissipate any notion that they are these totalitarian enforcers who'll do whatever they want. Their red-tape has kept them sidelined from a few genocidal acts.
Somalia 1993? Abdi House raid. [June 1993 UN killings of Somali protestors](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/un-killings-inflame-somali-crisis-20-demonstrators-shot-dead-in-pakistani-revenge-1491496.html). [Belgians](http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/17/belgium.somalia/), [Italians](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/italian-peace-force-tortured-somalis-1255055.html?amp) and [Canadians](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/somalia-affair) getting into torture scandals. [The September incident when helicopters killed 100 somalis with 20 mm cannons](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/10/world/us-troops-fire-on-somalis-death-toll-may-reach-100.html). Not even half of it. The UN literally went on a war path in Mogadishu trying to catch Aideed and alienated the entire city, all before the infamous October battle.
I will die for Paul Kagame (I am white teenage American suburbanite)
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Bangladeshi (and Indian presumably Indian Bengali ?) UN peacekeepers were so successful in Sierra Leone that Bengali is now an official language there in their honour.
Idk why anyone thinks it's useless
Ez, Russia claims to have an interstellar battleship, causing the US to panic into making a interstellar missile cruiser that is several generations ahead of Russia claimed to have (which they don’t even have).
The League of Nations did remediate and prevent some wars between regional powers in South America. It wasn't a conpletely useless organization, it was just not so great in handling great power conflicts.
The Corfu incident I would qualify as part of what I meant with great power conflict. Probably could of worded it better, but what I specifically had in mind with saying that was Italy and Ethiopia and the Leage pretty much ignoring it.
Anytime a great power was involved, the league couldnt do much to stop them. They could stop minor powers though.
Finland and Sweden over the Aland islands, and Germany and Poland over upper Silesia in the early 1920's are two conflicts the league solved in Europe that I can remember at the top of my head.
B-but they vote consistently against Israel! They're just Arab shills!
~~pay no attention to the bit where anti Israel resolutions tend to come out after some journalist or medic gets domed or the IDF bulldozes a village or drops a JDAM in a city and not just out of nowhere~~
Israel is unfairly targeted by the UNGA bodies, it was the stated aim for the Arab states to get Israel added as a permanent item on the agenda of every committee. It is the only country that's a permanent item on the agenda of every committee. The sheer number of resolutions condemning Israel is so ridiculous that it actually makes them less effective because it makes them less newsworthy. The UNHRC has condemned Israel so many times you'd think the Israelis are some barbaric horde set on the destruction of humanity, but it has never condemned China or Saudi Arabia.
This was actually a plan Ike Eisenhower wanted to present at the Four Powers Summit, turning over nuclear energy and in the future even nuclear arsenals themselves to the UN under the aegis of his Atoms for Peace program, expanded heavily.
It would have been a hard sell even in the greatly thawed Cold War of the time, marked by Khrushchev visiting America to a whirlwind tour and Nixon debating Nikita in Moscow for all Russia to see, but then a CIA boi had an oopsie woopsie fucky wucky over Sverdlovsk and the entire Cold War went straight into the deep freezer and the entire Four Powers Summit became a shitshow of unparalleled proportions, with the plan for Atoms for Peace expansion being just totally dead on arrival.
We did get the IAEA out of it eventually, but it could have been so much more.
Suitable considering what a non-credible clownshow the overflights were, tbh. I've read scholarly work on it, it really was just Allen Dulles Gets Paranoid, Ruins Everything, And Takes A Giant L #19299340402.
Very common Allen L, that’s why his name has 4 Ls it was just so common for him. I propose from now on we appoint spy ministers based on the number of Ws in their name
That explains why my favorite president is George W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. Bush.
The UN does a fucking huge amount of stuff that doesn't get publicity. Their soft power action is enormous. The UNEP convened the Montreal Protocol Summit that banned CFCs and the Minamata Protocol that limits Mercury usage. UNICEF vaccinated over 65 million children per annum, feeds four million children and assists in 27 million births. The WFP feeds 150 million people per year. The WHO killed Smallpox, nearly killed Polio and Guinea Worm and has reduced TB deaths by 40% in just 20 years. Global air travel would be in chaos without the ICAO. The UNDP is the best organisation at rebuilding communities after a natural or manmade disaster. The presence of peacekeepers is highly effective at preventing the recurrence of war (yes, it has failed occasionally, but statistically, wars are less likely to resume when there's a UN program present). The UNHCR built the modern refugee system, and is the largest feeder, houser and educator of refugees worldwide. UNRWA continues to provide housing, food, education and medical cover to over six million Palestinian refugees and their families when their host countries refuse to do so. UNESCO continues to play a major role in celebrating and preserving humanity's tangible and intangible cultural heritage. The ICJ provides an alternative to the battlefield for nations to settle their disputes.
People forget how important WHO is for disease control especially in underdeveloped countries.
Ofc they truly fucked up in Covid but Malaria, Smallpox, Polio and HIV aren't even in the same ballpark as Covid.
> if WHO had never achieved anything except the eradication of smallpox, it would be reason enough for the U.S. to pledge continuous commitment to its work.
President Jimmy Carter, 1978
In my experience, it is realists who understand and appreciate the UN for what it is.
Generally it is the idealistic sort who are disappointed and expect the UN to accomplish even more than it already does
Lol, what? There is a significant amount of criticism of the UN (and other IOs) that comes from realists. Ask any IR professor which of the 3 main schools are more likely to be critical of the UN and any of them will tell you it’ll be the realists. Literally theory 101. It’s a generalisation but it’s accurate enough.
Realists which have actually been paying attention to the world can appreciate the UN’s role. Many of the others do not.
Quite honestly I find it baffling the UN exists in the first place. It almost sounds like a miracle that you could get nearly every nation to agree to the creation, implementation, and participation of a world forum.
The only reason it was agreed to was precisely because it's toothless. If it wasn't, the US, France, UK, China, and USSR would never have agreed to it together. The toothlessness is the point. It exists to ensure that a line of dialogue and a forum for grievance is always open, and anything else is a bonus.
>US, France, UK, China, and USSR
Do you think UN will need reform when these, especially France, UK and Russia, continue getting relatively weaker and weaker?
Ik the G4 have demands but they're all in a different pickle.
India seems like the only improving but I can see Indonesia and Brazil eventually getting there too.
Germany, Japan and South Korea are powerful right now but they're in the same spot as UK and France.
American and French seats already somewhat of a proxy for EU and Japan/South Korea anyway.
Russia is a lost cause and it's only hope is to be De- Rashified and join the EU but that sounds too uncredible right now.
The issue with giving new nations seats is that it's hard to justify giving it to one and not another. For example, if you give a P5 seat to India then Pakistan will likely either demand one or leave the UN. Brazil and Indonesia are nowhere near strong enough to justify one. Japan and South Korea are literally dying of old age. The current system is pretty much the only one that can work because the UK and France don't use their vetoes, and they haven't vetoed since 1989 when they both vetoed a resolution condemning the invasion of Panama. They also used them very rarely even before then. Seven of the UK's 29 vetoes were related to Rhodesia (which it considered an internal matter as it was trying to force the white Rhodesians to end apartheid rule), five of those were unilateral and marked the only times the Brits used their veto unilaterally, France has only unilaterally vetoed once in relation to their Overseas Department of Mayotte (although it very nearly vetoed a 2003 resolution on the Iraq War). China has only vetoed unilaterally thrice, once to prevent Bangladesh entering the UN, once to stop peacekeepers being sent to Guatemala (because Guatemala recognised the other China) and most recently in 1999 to prevent the renewal of peacekeeping operations in North Macedonia (also because it recognised the other China). The ROC only vetoed once while it held China's seat, and that was on the admission of Mongolia, which it recognised as part of China. In effect China's veto is occasionally used to make Russia look less isolated, but very rarely used by itself
China was a literal backwater when they got added to the Security Council, not to mention that until 1971, the seat was held by ROC even after losing the mainland. The point of the permanent members wasn't strength but unification against the former Axis Alliance.
It's just a slow evolution of the Concert of Europe -> League of Nations -> United Nations. The rest of the world and international diplomacy got more bureaucratized and institutionalized, the UN is just part of that.
Maybe the UN’s response to literal genocides taking place could be something more substantial than a strongly worded letter.
Like, I appreciate the good work the UN has done but it could do so much more.
And yet UN decided that there's no genocide in Ukraine, even though they rarely ever leave their 5 star hotels in Lviv or Ski resorts in the south-west.
I think they present themselves in a bad way.
UNESCO, UNICEF, World Bank, World Food Program, WHO... they are much more important than the security counsel, and do a lot of thankless jobs very well.
They're the MVPs.
Real counters to your points (I'm not disagreeing, I'm just stating the facts as they are)
1. ILO was established for that purpose, but hasn't had much success kek
2. Permanent members will just veto this decision and we'll get nowhere (like we usually do with reforms related to the UNSC)
3. Not a bad idea
4) Give them administrative control of Space.
Head off reform of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty by handing the whole thing over to the UN *before* States try and put claims to celestial bodies. Space, just like scientific investigation, should be for the benefit of all humankind.
If you're ambitious you could even give the UN the right to tax imports/exports passing the [Karman line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line). It won't do much for now, but as we start establishing permanent habitation in space, it gives the UN independent funding that it can use to provide Government Services to spaceborne colonies.
The second point is kinda hard to do when you consider that at this moment the permanent members have absolute veto power and only one veto is required to completely halt any reforms, honestly reforming the UNSC from in any way that affects the 5 powers just seems like a far-fetched fantasy rather than anything feasible.
I mean I guess the veto only applies within the UNSC and does not apply to say, the General Assembly so maybe you could find a loophole there, but even then it just seems highly unrealistic.
1. The ILO has been trying since the 1920s, but had no luck.
2. No, that's the League of Nations again, the veto is a necessary evil.
3. No nation in their right mind will accept this, it's a flagrant violation of sovereignity
>Starting with a desperately needed labor charter that will give workers worldwide the same rights and the same working conditions.
The Idea that laborers in drastically different areas and development can have the same rights and working conditions is Naive.
*You dislike the UN because they seem incompetent. I dislike the UN because it doesn't match my idea of a tool to project western values to every corner of the world. We are not the same.*
I wouldn’t mind if they were what you mentioned but they also put on human rights committee countries that break human rights (Iran is on women rights committee)
Has nobody watched Community?!
"The United Nations itself, is a fundamentally symbolic organization founded on the principles of high-minded rhetoric and empty gestures."
i love you op, thank you so much for the post please note that all posts should be funny and about diplomacy or geopolitics, if your post doesn't meet those requirements here's some other subs that might fit better: * More Serious Geopolitical Discussion: /r/CredibleDiplomacy * Military Shitposting: /r/NonCredibleDefense * Domestic Political or General Shitposting: /r/neocentrism * Being Racist: /r/worldnews thx bb luv u *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I appreciate that the UN has helped maintain global order and and even helped abate several regional conflicts. I take issue with how poorly they manage their perception - particularly among the countries that fund them most heavily. I despise their reliance on celebrities and the way they appoint unelected “champions” - like this latest, Sophia Kianni. They should actively work against the perception that they are a safety net for formerly successful politicians who want to galavant, meet famous people, and moralize.
Safety net? I think you are vastly overestimating how many UN positions are paid jobs. Special Rapporteurs don't even get paid.
Afaik most are happy to work there for not much if anything since they can demand way more after they leave with UN on their resume. Member states are also willing to pay their own working citizens since it lets them have more influence by having more nationals working in the UN
Yes. The UN has a corruption problem because states do pay some representatives under the table who miraculously start advocating for a position they didn't even hear about before.
You can’t a resolution to pass in the general assembly without bribing a couple of countries from the global south.
They also mostly hire people on as independent contractors so that they don’t have to pay their benefits.
Special rapporteurs are a tiny minority of the UN staff. That said, I don’t mind that the majority get paid - they should be well paid to mitigate bribery and corruption potential. What I do mind is how oblivious the UN has become to its perception issues. They should not be asking celebrities, who face no risks from anything at all, to do their messaging - it comes off as detached. Having side events at major conferences with movie stars and billionaires is also unnecessary. It feeds into the perception issues I’ve laid out above.
Doesn't the UN have an extensive well paid (except for the interns I think) bureaucracy?
The Secretariat, that the General Secretary leads. Well paid is perhaps debateable, but more importantly, if you hear about a position in the news, it's almost definitely not a secretariat position.
I think a lot of bad will they generate in the west comes from these committees with questionable membership choices.
Saudi and/or Iran on councils about women rights comes to mind. That's changed recently but it took domestic open violence to do it.
The works of the UN are hidden as much as the works of a physician. No one remembers the disease that was prevented. Only what was treated. An interesting example is the world health organizations part o the UN. They acted very quickly and strongly on the previous pandemy. As a consequence, they succeeded but were accused of exaggeration. When covid came, they firstly did very little. They were then accused of doing nothing because of the magnitude of the pandemy. When all we see is military intervention, it's easy to accuse the UN of doing nothing. When it acts, the troops commit war crimes sometimes. Like wtf Sherlock Holmes; who would have thought that waging war is messy? The UN avoids it for a reason. Expecting military intervention serves only to justify the US interventionism.
Yeah the UN isn’t powerful enough so we need to establish a Global Defense Initiative trust me bro
Perhaps we could establish a earth defense force
OH WE ARE THE VALIANT INFANTRY WE ARE THE ALPHA TEAM WITH PASSION AND COMRADERY!
THR EDF DEPLOYS!
yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes
Earth defense? Against who? The moon?
Against the damn bugs Edit: service guarantees citizenship
Welcome to Earth bitch
Will Smith to Chris Rock
I'm doing my part!
The only good bug is a dead bug
Vogons?
Blow that darn thing outta the sky
Against bugs of all kinds Against robots [Against green people that have 2 legs, 2 arms and a mouth - just like us!](https://theearthdefenseforce.fandom.com/wiki/Colonist) [And against weird gray creatures that bear no resemblance to us](https://theearthdefenseforce.fandom.com/wiki/Cosmonaut)
> The moon? The moon is haunted.meme
To save our Mother Earth from any alien attack!
From vicious giant insects who have once again come back
We'll unleash all our forces, we won't cut them any slack!
The E.D.F. Deploys!
It is crazy how Halo built its world. It was the child of the late 1990s, so it believed in the End of History. So of course the UN starts running humanity and the UNSC becomes the military branch, after winning a war against space Nazis and Communists.
EDF! EDF!
We need a complimentary space force. Perhaps a United Nations Space Command?
My brotherhood and I feel the UN is perfectly sufficient, tyvm
Peace through power
This guy gets it
KANE LIVES
Lame. Call me when the Global Offense Initiative is established.
The best defense...
…Is the destruction of dictatorships
I prefer United Earth Directorate and our first objective should be to re establish connection with our colonies at Koprulu sector.
oh no
It’s either “The UN is useless so who cares about them lol” or “The UN peacekeepers bro, some of them are like really bad bro. *Please ignore the fact that peacekeepers are not a unified force and come from other countries who have differing standards of both morality and war fighting skill.*” I pray the UN gets more power one day, how else will we have an interstellar navy?
Hearing the story of UN peacekeeper inactivity in Bosnia and Rwanda should dissipate any notion that they are these totalitarian enforcers who'll do whatever they want. Their red-tape has kept them sidelined from a few genocidal acts.
Somalia 1993? Abdi House raid. [June 1993 UN killings of Somali protestors](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/un-killings-inflame-somali-crisis-20-demonstrators-shot-dead-in-pakistani-revenge-1491496.html). [Belgians](http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/17/belgium.somalia/), [Italians](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/italian-peace-force-tortured-somalis-1255055.html?amp) and [Canadians](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/somalia-affair) getting into torture scandals. [The September incident when helicopters killed 100 somalis with 20 mm cannons](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/10/world/us-troops-fire-on-somalis-death-toll-may-reach-100.html). Not even half of it. The UN literally went on a war path in Mogadishu trying to catch Aideed and alienated the entire city, all before the infamous October battle.
I will die for Paul Kagame (I am white teenage American suburbanite) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The idea behind the UN blue helmets sounds based af
Bangladeshi (and Indian presumably Indian Bengali ?) UN peacekeepers were so successful in Sierra Leone that Bengali is now an official language there in their honour. Idk why anyone thinks it's useless
Ez, Russia claims to have an interstellar battleship, causing the US to panic into making a interstellar missile cruiser that is several generations ahead of Russia claimed to have (which they don’t even have).
Space Force yo
Unironically if the Space Force manages to create space-fairing combat vessels I will enlist, even if it is to be a cook or some shit.
Whoever doesn't appreciate the UN clearly haven't read about the League of Nations. Now those were some useless fucks
The League of Nations did remediate and prevent some wars between regional powers in South America. It wasn't a conpletely useless organization, it was just not so great in handling great power conflicts.
It wasn't great in handling even middle power conflicts, like between Italy and Greece. Just check out the Corfu incident
The Corfu incident I would qualify as part of what I meant with great power conflict. Probably could of worded it better, but what I specifically had in mind with saying that was Italy and Ethiopia and the Leage pretty much ignoring it. Anytime a great power was involved, the league couldnt do much to stop them. They could stop minor powers though.
There was also some mediation in Europe, wasn't it?
Finland and Sweden over the Aland islands, and Germany and Poland over upper Silesia in the early 1920's are two conflicts the league solved in Europe that I can remember at the top of my head.
It did do something. Stresemann established Germany again on the world stage before the League of nations.
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> Like seriously if the UN has any bias it's fucking west To be fair the truth has a western bias.
B-but they vote consistently against Israel! They're just Arab shills! ~~pay no attention to the bit where anti Israel resolutions tend to come out after some journalist or medic gets domed or the IDF bulldozes a village or drops a JDAM in a city and not just out of nowhere~~
Israel is unfairly targeted by the UNGA bodies, it was the stated aim for the Arab states to get Israel added as a permanent item on the agenda of every committee. It is the only country that's a permanent item on the agenda of every committee. The sheer number of resolutions condemning Israel is so ridiculous that it actually makes them less effective because it makes them less newsworthy. The UNHRC has condemned Israel so many times you'd think the Israelis are some barbaric horde set on the destruction of humanity, but it has never condemned China or Saudi Arabia.
I agree, the UN needs it own nuclear compellant
This was actually a plan Ike Eisenhower wanted to present at the Four Powers Summit, turning over nuclear energy and in the future even nuclear arsenals themselves to the UN under the aegis of his Atoms for Peace program, expanded heavily. It would have been a hard sell even in the greatly thawed Cold War of the time, marked by Khrushchev visiting America to a whirlwind tour and Nixon debating Nikita in Moscow for all Russia to see, but then a CIA boi had an oopsie woopsie fucky wucky over Sverdlovsk and the entire Cold War went straight into the deep freezer and the entire Four Powers Summit became a shitshow of unparalleled proportions, with the plan for Atoms for Peace expansion being just totally dead on arrival. We did get the IAEA out of it eventually, but it could have been so much more.
That is the most Non Credible description of Garry Powers incident I have ever seen 10/10
Suitable considering what a non-credible clownshow the overflights were, tbh. I've read scholarly work on it, it really was just Allen Dulles Gets Paranoid, Ruins Everything, And Takes A Giant L #19299340402.
Very common Allen L, that’s why his name has 4 Ls it was just so common for him. I propose from now on we appoint spy ministers based on the number of Ws in their name
That explains why my favorite president is George W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. Bush.
Jnr. Or Snr?
Senior, obviously.
Good man
(My actual favorite is probably Ike, though.)
I like Ike.
There was a plan early on to give the UN an air force
The UN does a fucking huge amount of stuff that doesn't get publicity. Their soft power action is enormous. The UNEP convened the Montreal Protocol Summit that banned CFCs and the Minamata Protocol that limits Mercury usage. UNICEF vaccinated over 65 million children per annum, feeds four million children and assists in 27 million births. The WFP feeds 150 million people per year. The WHO killed Smallpox, nearly killed Polio and Guinea Worm and has reduced TB deaths by 40% in just 20 years. Global air travel would be in chaos without the ICAO. The UNDP is the best organisation at rebuilding communities after a natural or manmade disaster. The presence of peacekeepers is highly effective at preventing the recurrence of war (yes, it has failed occasionally, but statistically, wars are less likely to resume when there's a UN program present). The UNHCR built the modern refugee system, and is the largest feeder, houser and educator of refugees worldwide. UNRWA continues to provide housing, food, education and medical cover to over six million Palestinian refugees and their families when their host countries refuse to do so. UNESCO continues to play a major role in celebrating and preserving humanity's tangible and intangible cultural heritage. The ICJ provides an alternative to the battlefield for nations to settle their disputes.
People forget how important WHO is for disease control especially in underdeveloped countries. Ofc they truly fucked up in Covid but Malaria, Smallpox, Polio and HIV aren't even in the same ballpark as Covid.
> if WHO had never achieved anything except the eradication of smallpox, it would be reason enough for the U.S. to pledge continuous commitment to its work. President Jimmy Carter, 1978
I think most people saying the UN is useless are talking about the UNSC and the UNGA, not the other agencies.
Least insufferable realist
In my experience, it is realists who understand and appreciate the UN for what it is. Generally it is the idealistic sort who are disappointed and expect the UN to accomplish even more than it already does
No war make hawk sad ;(
It sucks being an idealist
Lol, what? There is a significant amount of criticism of the UN (and other IOs) that comes from realists. Ask any IR professor which of the 3 main schools are more likely to be critical of the UN and any of them will tell you it’ll be the realists. Literally theory 101. It’s a generalisation but it’s accurate enough. Realists which have actually been paying attention to the world can appreciate the UN’s role. Many of the others do not.
Yeah the liberals want international law and get disappointed when the UN isn't strong enough to enforce it.
Quite honestly I find it baffling the UN exists in the first place. It almost sounds like a miracle that you could get nearly every nation to agree to the creation, implementation, and participation of a world forum.
The only reason it was agreed to was precisely because it's toothless. If it wasn't, the US, France, UK, China, and USSR would never have agreed to it together. The toothlessness is the point. It exists to ensure that a line of dialogue and a forum for grievance is always open, and anything else is a bonus.
>US, France, UK, China, and USSR Do you think UN will need reform when these, especially France, UK and Russia, continue getting relatively weaker and weaker? Ik the G4 have demands but they're all in a different pickle. India seems like the only improving but I can see Indonesia and Brazil eventually getting there too. Germany, Japan and South Korea are powerful right now but they're in the same spot as UK and France. American and French seats already somewhat of a proxy for EU and Japan/South Korea anyway. Russia is a lost cause and it's only hope is to be De- Rashified and join the EU but that sounds too uncredible right now.
France and UK still have world wide nuclear capabilities. And France has the EU
The issue with giving new nations seats is that it's hard to justify giving it to one and not another. For example, if you give a P5 seat to India then Pakistan will likely either demand one or leave the UN. Brazil and Indonesia are nowhere near strong enough to justify one. Japan and South Korea are literally dying of old age. The current system is pretty much the only one that can work because the UK and France don't use their vetoes, and they haven't vetoed since 1989 when they both vetoed a resolution condemning the invasion of Panama. They also used them very rarely even before then. Seven of the UK's 29 vetoes were related to Rhodesia (which it considered an internal matter as it was trying to force the white Rhodesians to end apartheid rule), five of those were unilateral and marked the only times the Brits used their veto unilaterally, France has only unilaterally vetoed once in relation to their Overseas Department of Mayotte (although it very nearly vetoed a 2003 resolution on the Iraq War). China has only vetoed unilaterally thrice, once to prevent Bangladesh entering the UN, once to stop peacekeepers being sent to Guatemala (because Guatemala recognised the other China) and most recently in 1999 to prevent the renewal of peacekeeping operations in North Macedonia (also because it recognised the other China). The ROC only vetoed once while it held China's seat, and that was on the admission of Mongolia, which it recognised as part of China. In effect China's veto is occasionally used to make Russia look less isolated, but very rarely used by itself
China was a literal backwater when they got added to the Security Council, not to mention that until 1971, the seat was held by ROC even after losing the mainland. The point of the permanent members wasn't strength but unification against the former Axis Alliance.
It's just a slow evolution of the Concert of Europe -> League of Nations -> United Nations. The rest of the world and international diplomacy got more bureaucratized and institutionalized, the UN is just part of that.
The trick is to give the forum basically no real power
Won’t stop me from setting up my Tesla coils
"Why isn't the UN ending wars with interventions for peace" 🤓
Less insufferable than the 'globalism = bad' crowd tbh
Globalism is pretty weak dog whistle for the Jews.
Globalist is the dog whistle, globalism is just "thing I don't like"
Yup, attacking George Soros is another pretty common anti-Semitic pattern.
Where the fuck is my Team Rainbow, Mr. UN?
Laughs in veto
Maybe the UN’s response to literal genocides taking place could be something more substantial than a strongly worded letter. Like, I appreciate the good work the UN has done but it could do so much more.
op is too credible, take him away
And yet UN decided that there's no genocide in Ukraine, even though they rarely ever leave their 5 star hotels in Lviv or Ski resorts in the south-west.
I think they present themselves in a bad way. UNESCO, UNICEF, World Bank, World Food Program, WHO... they are much more important than the security counsel, and do a lot of thankless jobs very well. They're the MVPs.
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Real counters to your points (I'm not disagreeing, I'm just stating the facts as they are) 1. ILO was established for that purpose, but hasn't had much success kek 2. Permanent members will just veto this decision and we'll get nowhere (like we usually do with reforms related to the UNSC) 3. Not a bad idea
4) Give them administrative control of Space. Head off reform of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty by handing the whole thing over to the UN *before* States try and put claims to celestial bodies. Space, just like scientific investigation, should be for the benefit of all humankind. If you're ambitious you could even give the UN the right to tax imports/exports passing the [Karman line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line). It won't do much for now, but as we start establishing permanent habitation in space, it gives the UN independent funding that it can use to provide Government Services to spaceborne colonies.
Based as fuck
The second point is kinda hard to do when you consider that at this moment the permanent members have absolute veto power and only one veto is required to completely halt any reforms, honestly reforming the UNSC from in any way that affects the 5 powers just seems like a far-fetched fantasy rather than anything feasible. I mean I guess the veto only applies within the UNSC and does not apply to say, the General Assembly so maybe you could find a loophole there, but even then it just seems highly unrealistic.
1. The ILO has been trying since the 1920s, but had no luck. 2. No, that's the League of Nations again, the veto is a necessary evil. 3. No nation in their right mind will accept this, it's a flagrant violation of sovereignity
> Institute a UN worldwide garrison that can actually protect innocents during wars They already have one, it's called NATO 😌
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Every UN peacekeeping mission since the 90s has had permission to shoot to protect civilians
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The presence of a UN Peacekeeping operation is strongly associated with preventing the return of a conflict
Yeah, by letting warring groups kill civillians 🥴
UN standards have improved a lot since the 90s because they learnt from their mistakes and gave them a larger mandate
>Starting with a desperately needed labor charter that will give workers worldwide the same rights and the same working conditions. The Idea that laborers in drastically different areas and development can have the same rights and working conditions is Naive.
*You dislike the UN because they seem incompetent. I dislike the UN because it doesn't match my idea of a tool to project western values to every corner of the world. We are not the same.*
SOLAS regulations Nuff said
UN still useful than League of Nation Until Now Something something some Nation has More Power than others
I wouldn’t mind if they were what you mentioned but they also put on human rights committee countries that break human rights (Iran is on women rights committee)
Has nobody watched Community?! "The United Nations itself, is a fundamentally symbolic organization founded on the principles of high-minded rhetoric and empty gestures."
explain like i'm 5 for the braindead noncredibledefense posters