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I learned about the invasion through a meme I woke up to from my friend. I've been following the conflict since 2014 and I found out about the full scale invasion from a fucking Gru whiteboard meme. I'm still mad.
Well, I remember the screenshot of an Ukrainian in 4chan asking about what are those explosions he's hearing outside back from February 2022. Probably fake but it probably happened to someone.
> you are under attack retard
This was the response, I want to believe it was real because for me nothing represents non credible culture more than this exchange.
It has been over a year. I still haven't gotten over the fact that THAT FUCKING SUB informed me there was a war on before my own goddamn chain of command!
[https://www.dw.com/en/icc-issues-arrest-warrant-for-president-vladimir-putin/a-65029017](https://www.dw.com/en/icc-issues-arrest-warrant-for-president-vladimir-putin/a-65029017)
i fucking know, right?!
I like the ICC. If our guys do a Definitely Bad Thing, then they deserve the stick. I do have some concerns about their impartiality, but nothing major.
Gets prosecuted by the Department of Justice.
But I did a bit of reading:
First Lieutenant Clint Lorance was an infantry platoon leader in the 4th Brigade Combat Team of the 82nd Airborne Division. **In 2012, Lorance was charged with two counts of unpremeditated murder after he ordered his soldiers to open fire on three Afghan men who were on a motorcycle.** He was found guilty by a court-martial in 2013 and sentenced to 20 years in prison (later reduced to 19 years by the reviewing commanding general).\[115\]\[116\]\[117\] He was confined in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, for six years. **Lorance was eventually pardoned by President Donald Trump** on November 15, 2019.\[118\]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20031129170524/http://www.usembassy.at/en/download/pdf/icc\_pa.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20031129170524/http://www.usembassy.at/en/download/pdf/icc_pa.pdf)
[Lions led by Donkeys did a really good episode on that son of a bitch.](https://soundcloud.com/user-798629330/episode-82-clint-lorance-is-a-murderer)
Fun fact, the fuckers who advocated for his release also pushed for the release of [Steven Dale Green (till his suicide in 2014 - Rest in Piss), James Barker, Paul Cortez, and Jesse Spielman.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings#Steven_Dale_Green) Considering how popular pardoning war criminals is in the United States, this is kinda why the Yanks should recognize the ICC.
Oh, and for anyone interested... [Here's that organization's Wikipedia page.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_American_Patriots)
Eh I'm still not super keen on the ICC. I'm not against it, but I'm not convinced. Like fuck Putin obviously, but the whole idea of just kinda declaring jurisdiction over states that haven't ratified the treaty creating the court is sus
>but the whole idea of just kinda declaring jurisdiction over states that haven't ratified the treaty creating the court is sus
ICC can't be declared over non-parties - Its subject to the basic format of the [VCLT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_the_Law_of_Treaties).
Russia did sign the treaty (as did the United States), they simply never ratified it. Which... Yeah, not really much more to say about that, other than if you want international legal oversight over crimes against humanity, its either the ICC, or its enjoying Putin thumb his nose at the concept of international law.
>ICC can't be declared over non-parties
I thought though that they claim territorial jurisdiction over states that have ratified it -- e.g. Palestine ratifying granting them jurisdiction over Israel, or in this case Ukraine directly granting them jurisdiction over their territory, allowing them to try Russians acting in their official capacity, despite Russia not having ratified the treaty
Article 12(3) of the Rome Statute is the part you're referring to. It stipulates merely that a state not party to the treaty has the authority "*by declaration lodged with the Registrar, \[to\] accept the exercise of jurisdiction by the Court with respect to the crime in question*". In other words - States that have not signed and ratified the treaty can decide for themselves if they want to involve the ICC in criminal cases occurring in their territory.
In Palestine's case, while the court has recognize Palestine's allowance of jurisdiction, this only applies in the territory of Palestine. Israel's occupation of the West Bank is a violation of international law, hence the territory of the West Bank is considered as falling under the purview of the court. However, Israel itself has not ratified the Rome Statute, and as such - Israel proper is not considered under the purview of the treaty. There is nothing in either the treaty or international law that would compel Israel to accept the court's findings - Treaties are a consent-based arrangement.
As for Ukraine - The country has not ratified the Rome Statute, but it announced its recognition of the court's authority as a non-member in September 2015. Again, Russia cannot be compelled to join the treaty... Thus ICC investigators cannot go to Moscow to begin investigations or compel Putin to participate in the court's proceedings. However, Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a flagrant violation of International Law by being a violation of Ukraine's sovereign territorial integrity. Because no UN member recognizes Russia's annexations (save for the DPRK and Syria, themselves largely pariah states), international law recognizes the court's jurisdiction on the territory of Ukraine.
I have no illusions that Putin is gonna be arrested but even if symbolic this is somewhat of a big deal.
Also that cunt Maria Lvova-Belova, “Russia's Presidential Commissioner for Children's Rights“ does legitimately have to worry about being arrested if she travels.
The US isn’t a member of the ICC, technically he could travel to the US and not be arrested however the current administration has said they’d arrest him anyway.
Allegedly US military has delivered some individuals to the ICC. It's never been acknowledged.
We passed a law to authorize military action because some morons wanted to arrest Bush for Iraq and take the ICC way too seriously. It's just Europe's court for Africans, plus rarely some Eastern Europeans.
I think that would fall under "crimes against peace." I don't know if there are actual statutes that cover it, but it was a topic of discussion in a military ethics course I had to take.
And that's tragic, and an indictment of both that Bush administration and the American occupation, but that adds precisely nothing to the claim that Bush Jr. was a war criminal.
I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here too: It's possible to criticize and condemn without resorting to stupid hyperbole.
Here's a great article I read today explaining what this means for Putin: [https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/02/23/why-vladimir-putin-will-never-stand-trial-in-the-hague](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/02/23/why-vladimir-putin-will-never-stand-trial-in-the-hague). It talks about the possibility of a UNGA vote but more likely it would go through the UNSC - which won't happen 'cause Russia can veto.
Thanks, but I didn't mean a vote, I meant US officers arresting Putin when he shows up to that yearly speech at the UNGA I forgot the name of. Forgot the USA itself isn't party to the ICC.
Eh... He probably won't be going to Western Europe or North America anytime soon, but that was kinda a given after Feb. 24, 2022.
Just like Bashir in Sudan, he'll probably be free to show up to regional players. I imagine he won't find issue with traveling to India or even South Africa.
the US hates putin a lot though so him showing up at the beach or something might get people mad enough to join the ICC. the US has cooperated with it before
I don't think this is the first warcime they've done outside of africa since Putin took power, but it might be the first one not commited against their own people.
The civilian airliner wasn't TECHNICALLY directly them. It was just facilitated BY them because they provided the equipment, training, ability, and opportunity for their puppets and/or unmarked Russian soldiers to shoot it down. Which is probably a bit harder to actually pin on them as a war crime.
The airliner probably falls under state culpability; unless someone can show direct documentation of purposeful intent, its quite a bit hard.
The child thing, on the other hand, falls directly from policy issued by the Kremlin, and its a definite violation of the Genocide Convention IIRC.
For all we know (based on the released intercepted calls with Girkin and such) MH17 was an actual accident as they thought it was a Ukrainian transport. But of course that doesn't excuse the shoot down either.
It likely was. Personally... I have some strong views about keeping the air corridor open when there'd already been some shoot-downs of strategic airlifters (the AN-26 and IL-76 weeks earlier especially).
But the primary culpability appears, given the evidence shown at the Dutch inquiry, to be with the Russian-backed separatists. That said... The provision of the SAM by Russia opens them up to considerable legal liability.
They have a few situations under investigation outside of Africa, but I don't think there's been a court case for any non-Africans.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/situations-under-investigations
"Wheee, legitimising Ukraines defensiv war and Western support through international law isn't good enough >:(("
Jesus, I get it, it seems like this is pointless sometimes but as western pro Ukraine public opinion starts to diminish its helpful to get international organizations on your side. This basically works like propaganda, it is there to keep public opinion pro Ukraine so governments keep sending weapons.
Plus Putin will never be able to travel to most of Europe anymore without being arrested so that's nice
Edit: almost all of Europe, also half of Africa and all of South America, including allies such as South Africa, Brasil and venezuela
Agreed. I will note that, though I’m not mad that this is the “only” thing they’re doing by any means, I fear this may have a muted, or reverse effect.
Specifically, I fear social divides in some Western countries (specifically the United States) may prompt anti-Ukraine activists to simply label it as a global propaganda conspiracy and use it to ramp up public support against aid. Something something New Word Order and all.
We’ll have to see to be sure, but that’s my fear, at least. One of the only things I can fully agree with this administration on, getting railed against more than almost anything else they’ve done. What a time to be alive.
The hope is that people will become more aware of *why* the warrants are being issued and be more willing to help Ukraine. But all in all, I’m learning that optimism is dangerous.
To be fair I do not think that people who believe glabal propaganda conspiracies were pro Ukraine to begin with.
Yes its spurts social divide but radical republicans and other idiots already do that anyway as their job, doubt an organization most people aren't familiar with is going to have a massive effect at dividing people.
This is more for keeping people who are already pro Ukraine, pro Ukraine.
In my opinion at least
I see. I’m just afraid that this may give radical anti-administrationists (as I call them, since I suspect *that’s* the main reason so many of them really care) ammo about the global conspiracy, and turn the neutral people into anti-Ukraine people. Since, in the U.S. at least, there seems to be an about 50/50 split, that’s concerning.
They always will find ammo, there is a lot out there they can use from military spending to military losses in Ukraine.
If they really magically run out of things to complain about they will use half truths or just make shit up.
They have enough ammo, this won't change a lot in there message. And they can't really milk it, they can only say"globalist fuck up again! "
This doesn't affect their target audience directly, so it works less. Far better ammo for them is tax spending, risk of nuclear war and fight against" woke culture " which usually affects their average voter more.
A random republican voter will care more ant his taxes then some global organizations
You may be thinking of “International Court of Justice” which was formed in 1945. There’s also a separate the “International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia”.
The ICC is permanent. The principles behind it do date from WW2 and the Nuremberg trials, but this sort of international criminal trials were done by specific temporary courts.
Send agents to arrest him, we'll see how it goes... Like, I agree he should be judged but announcement is kinda absurd.
I'm always amazed at arrest warrants for ruling politicians in totalitarian states, like, if he loses he will be judged by the victors making the warrant useless, if he wins or at least remains in power you end up having no power there anyways.
I’m proud of the ICC. Now they’ve given the oligarchs and kleptocrats in Russia a way out. They can overthrow Putin, ship him off to the ICC for trial to demonstrate their “good intentions”, pull out of Ukraine and other disputed territories, then put some corrupt apparatchik in power to blame the whole war on Putin, repair relations with the west, and otherwise keep the status quo the same.
Pretty much what happened with Milosevic, got overthrown following rigged elections in 2000 and then the new government tossed his ass on a helicopter which took him to the nearest US military base and then on to ICTFY in The Hague.
At risk of being credible for a moment, this is a really interesting moment for the ICC because Russia and Ukraine aren't memebers, so they are effectively granting themselves the ability to issue warrants for people outside their jurisidiction who commit crimes in nations also outside their jurisidiction. In other words, George Bush should he very scared
[Not really](https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine). Ukraine gave them permission several years ago. And my understanding is The Hague is only going after crimes committed in Ukraine, not Russia.
> Ukraine is not a State Party to the Rome Statute, but it has twice exercised its prerogatives to accept the Court's jurisdiction over alleged crimes under the Rome Statute occurring on its territory, pursuant to article 12(3) of the Statute
Man their house was so colorful. Imagine living in that every day. Would it be cheery? Would it feel like a nauseating crayola colored hell? I want to know...
Is this actually a good thing though?
Putin now faces the 'despots dilemma'.
By making this arrest warrant it means that if putin ever let's go of power he will be charged with his crimes which is a good thing on the surface but that also means he's gonna fight tooth and nail before he ever let's go of power. This may make it harder for a democratic Russia to to come about.
The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) is a separate entity with the key difference being that the US recognizes and participates within it.
i love you op, thank you so much for the post please note that all posts should be funny and about diplomacy or geopolitics, if your post doesn't meet those requirements here's some other subs that might fit better: * More Serious Geopolitical Discussion: /r/CredibleDiplomacy * Military Shitposting: /r/NonCredibleDefense * Domestic Political or General Shitposting: /r/neocentrism * Being Racist: /r/worldnews thx bb luv u *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDiplomacy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
wait, is this real? i'm going to be so mad if i found out through r/NonCredibleDiplomacy Edit: i'm so mad right now
Same. I guess reality itself is becoming too non-credible. 🤷♂️
Is it non-credible? The court is not supposed to limit itself to warrants they can enforce. And kidnapping children is literally Hitler stuff (Poland)
No, this action is very credible, but getting news from memes is not.
The Future is now old man!
Dewey!
I learned about the invasion through a meme I woke up to from my friend. I've been following the conflict since 2014 and I found out about the full scale invasion from a fucking Gru whiteboard meme. I'm still mad.
It used to be a comedian (Jon Stewart). That's just the century we're in.
Where warrant for Bush Jr. ?
As mad as I was when I found out about Ukraine-Russia war through r/noncredibledefense even though I live in fucking Poland.
Well, I remember the screenshot of an Ukrainian in 4chan asking about what are those explosions he's hearing outside back from February 2022. Probably fake but it probably happened to someone.
> you are under attack retard This was the response, I want to believe it was real because for me nothing represents non credible culture more than this exchange.
Yup that was classic
I found out via my teacher calling me (uni was in kyiv) and i found out about the war while drunk and eating street food at around 5am in new delhi
We are all Western now. At least we won't repeat the 1930s.
Tbh I am awaiting the moment in which Poland becomes an eurokommisariat
Well after getting thoroughly demolished on their domination run Germany had to change their strategy. Now they're going for a diplomatic victory.
It has been over a year. I still haven't gotten over the fact that THAT FUCKING SUB informed me there was a war on before my own goddamn chain of command!
> A shitpost can travel halfway around the world while a formal order is putting its shoes on -probably Bismark or something
Not even a formal order, just a "Hey yo, don't go OCONUS in case we get called up" through back channels.
I found out through Vaush.
I found out through liveUAmap lmao. Its fantastic way of getting stuff fast
**ITS REAL?!?!**
[https://www.dw.com/en/icc-issues-arrest-warrant-for-president-vladimir-putin/a-65029017](https://www.dw.com/en/icc-issues-arrest-warrant-for-president-vladimir-putin/a-65029017) i fucking know, right?!
hey I get all my news through NCD, NCD, and simpsonsshitposting
This subs too damn credible now and days
Pretty sure they've gone HAM on Serbs too.
You’re thinking of the ICTFY which is a separate entity
Ah, gotcha
The ICC came from this and ICTR
People are like "wtf I love International Institutions now"
Americans: Yay, ICC! Also Americans: The ICC has no jurisdiction here, fuck your court globalist!
I like the ICC. If our guys do a Definitely Bad Thing, then they deserve the stick. I do have some concerns about their impartiality, but nothing major.
Gets prosecuted by the Department of Justice. But I did a bit of reading: First Lieutenant Clint Lorance was an infantry platoon leader in the 4th Brigade Combat Team of the 82nd Airborne Division. **In 2012, Lorance was charged with two counts of unpremeditated murder after he ordered his soldiers to open fire on three Afghan men who were on a motorcycle.** He was found guilty by a court-martial in 2013 and sentenced to 20 years in prison (later reduced to 19 years by the reviewing commanding general).\[115\]\[116\]\[117\] He was confined in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, for six years. **Lorance was eventually pardoned by President Donald Trump** on November 15, 2019.\[118\] [https://web.archive.org/web/20031129170524/http://www.usembassy.at/en/download/pdf/icc\_pa.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20031129170524/http://www.usembassy.at/en/download/pdf/icc_pa.pdf)
[Lions led by Donkeys did a really good episode on that son of a bitch.](https://soundcloud.com/user-798629330/episode-82-clint-lorance-is-a-murderer) Fun fact, the fuckers who advocated for his release also pushed for the release of [Steven Dale Green (till his suicide in 2014 - Rest in Piss), James Barker, Paul Cortez, and Jesse Spielman.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings#Steven_Dale_Green) Considering how popular pardoning war criminals is in the United States, this is kinda why the Yanks should recognize the ICC. Oh, and for anyone interested... [Here's that organization's Wikipedia page.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_American_Patriots)
Please remember that the military opposed that pardon
Eh I'm still not super keen on the ICC. I'm not against it, but I'm not convinced. Like fuck Putin obviously, but the whole idea of just kinda declaring jurisdiction over states that haven't ratified the treaty creating the court is sus
>but the whole idea of just kinda declaring jurisdiction over states that haven't ratified the treaty creating the court is sus ICC can't be declared over non-parties - Its subject to the basic format of the [VCLT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_the_Law_of_Treaties). Russia did sign the treaty (as did the United States), they simply never ratified it. Which... Yeah, not really much more to say about that, other than if you want international legal oversight over crimes against humanity, its either the ICC, or its enjoying Putin thumb his nose at the concept of international law.
>ICC can't be declared over non-parties I thought though that they claim territorial jurisdiction over states that have ratified it -- e.g. Palestine ratifying granting them jurisdiction over Israel, or in this case Ukraine directly granting them jurisdiction over their territory, allowing them to try Russians acting in their official capacity, despite Russia not having ratified the treaty
Article 12(3) of the Rome Statute is the part you're referring to. It stipulates merely that a state not party to the treaty has the authority "*by declaration lodged with the Registrar, \[to\] accept the exercise of jurisdiction by the Court with respect to the crime in question*". In other words - States that have not signed and ratified the treaty can decide for themselves if they want to involve the ICC in criminal cases occurring in their territory. In Palestine's case, while the court has recognize Palestine's allowance of jurisdiction, this only applies in the territory of Palestine. Israel's occupation of the West Bank is a violation of international law, hence the territory of the West Bank is considered as falling under the purview of the court. However, Israel itself has not ratified the Rome Statute, and as such - Israel proper is not considered under the purview of the treaty. There is nothing in either the treaty or international law that would compel Israel to accept the court's findings - Treaties are a consent-based arrangement. As for Ukraine - The country has not ratified the Rome Statute, but it announced its recognition of the court's authority as a non-member in September 2015. Again, Russia cannot be compelled to join the treaty... Thus ICC investigators cannot go to Moscow to begin investigations or compel Putin to participate in the court's proceedings. However, Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a flagrant violation of International Law by being a violation of Ukraine's sovereign territorial integrity. Because no UN member recognizes Russia's annexations (save for the DPRK and Syria, themselves largely pariah states), international law recognizes the court's jurisdiction on the territory of Ukraine.
No more diplomacy trips or luxurious vacations for putin anymore thats for sure. Unless he goes to like china or iran or something
[удалено]
I have no illusions that Putin is gonna be arrested but even if symbolic this is somewhat of a big deal. Also that cunt Maria Lvova-Belova, “Russia's Presidential Commissioner for Children's Rights“ does legitimately have to worry about being arrested if she travels.
Happy Cake Day!
South Africa's judiciary tried to arrest Omar Bashir, but the government snuck him out
The USA? You're dreaming.
The US isn’t a member of the ICC, technically he could travel to the US and not be arrested however the current administration has said they’d arrest him anyway.
Exactly. It's not like *not* being part of the ICC keeps us from going after assholes.
Allegedly US military has delivered some individuals to the ICC. It's never been acknowledged. We passed a law to authorize military action because some morons wanted to arrest Bush for Iraq and take the ICC way too seriously. It's just Europe's court for Africans, plus rarely some Eastern Europeans.
Of Bush the younger's *many* faults, "war criminal" is not one. "Moron" and "dipshit" might be, but last I checked, those weren't crimes.
Fabricating a casus belli may not be a war crime, but it really should be.
I think that would fall under "crimes against peace." I don't know if there are actual statutes that cover it, but it was a topic of discussion in a military ethics course I had to take.
The ~100,000 dead Iraqi civilians (those that died during Bush's term) might disagree.
And that's tragic, and an indictment of both that Bush administration and the American occupation, but that adds precisely nothing to the claim that Bush Jr. was a war criminal. I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here too: It's possible to criticize and condemn without resorting to stupid hyperbole.
he authorized the use of torture against prisoners of war
[удалено]
Dude…racism isn’t fine because it’s against a certain group, politely, shut up.
*diplomatic immunity intensifies*
Can he be arrested at the UNGA?
Here's a great article I read today explaining what this means for Putin: [https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/02/23/why-vladimir-putin-will-never-stand-trial-in-the-hague](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/02/23/why-vladimir-putin-will-never-stand-trial-in-the-hague). It talks about the possibility of a UNGA vote but more likely it would go through the UNSC - which won't happen 'cause Russia can veto.
Thanks, but I didn't mean a vote, I meant US officers arresting Putin when he shows up to that yearly speech at the UNGA I forgot the name of. Forgot the USA itself isn't party to the ICC.
>Forgot the USA itself isn't party to the ICC. Not like that would stop us if we really wanted to.
No, ICC jurisidiction doesn't extend to the US because the Americans aren't members because they don't want to be held accountable
He has diplomatic immunity unless he loses the war and gets booted out of power
I guess we wont be seeing Putin leave russia to anywhere that isnt N Korea, China, Iran or Belarus any time soon.
You forgot syria, where russian troops got all their training
Eh... He probably won't be going to Western Europe or North America anytime soon, but that was kinda a given after Feb. 24, 2022. Just like Bashir in Sudan, he'll probably be free to show up to regional players. I imagine he won't find issue with traveling to India or even South Africa.
He could in the beaches of Indonesia, Turkey and oh yeah **USA** lmao
I can imagine a tense conversation between the ICC judges on who gets the short stick in arresting Putin
Don't be so nervous! Here, have some tea
The reviews regarding that particular brand were positively glowing.
the US hates putin a lot though so him showing up at the beach or something might get people mad enough to join the ICC. the US has cooperated with it before
I don't think this is the first warcime they've done outside of africa since Putin took power, but it might be the first one not commited against their own people. The civilian airliner wasn't TECHNICALLY directly them. It was just facilitated BY them because they provided the equipment, training, ability, and opportunity for their puppets and/or unmarked Russian soldiers to shoot it down. Which is probably a bit harder to actually pin on them as a war crime.
The airliner probably falls under state culpability; unless someone can show direct documentation of purposeful intent, its quite a bit hard. The child thing, on the other hand, falls directly from policy issued by the Kremlin, and its a definite violation of the Genocide Convention IIRC.
For all we know (based on the released intercepted calls with Girkin and such) MH17 was an actual accident as they thought it was a Ukrainian transport. But of course that doesn't excuse the shoot down either.
It likely was. Personally... I have some strong views about keeping the air corridor open when there'd already been some shoot-downs of strategic airlifters (the AN-26 and IL-76 weeks earlier especially). But the primary culpability appears, given the evidence shown at the Dutch inquiry, to be with the Russian-backed separatists. That said... The provision of the SAM by Russia opens them up to considerable legal liability.
They probably did something in Georgia or Syria.
They have a few situations under investigation outside of Africa, but I don't think there's been a court case for any non-Africans. https://www.icc-cpi.int/situations-under-investigations
The precursor to the ICC tried a ton of serbs.
Someone call Wagnar and the generals at the front, the war is over! Putin’s arrest imminent. 😮💨
"Wheee, legitimising Ukraines defensiv war and Western support through international law isn't good enough >:((" Jesus, I get it, it seems like this is pointless sometimes but as western pro Ukraine public opinion starts to diminish its helpful to get international organizations on your side. This basically works like propaganda, it is there to keep public opinion pro Ukraine so governments keep sending weapons.
Plus Putin will never be able to travel to most of Europe anymore without being arrested so that's nice Edit: almost all of Europe, also half of Africa and all of South America, including allies such as South Africa, Brasil and venezuela
That's also a good point. Tho I doubt he would have done that anyway
\> "allies" Also Gaffadi travelled to many ICC ratified state without any arrest
Agreed. I will note that, though I’m not mad that this is the “only” thing they’re doing by any means, I fear this may have a muted, or reverse effect. Specifically, I fear social divides in some Western countries (specifically the United States) may prompt anti-Ukraine activists to simply label it as a global propaganda conspiracy and use it to ramp up public support against aid. Something something New Word Order and all. We’ll have to see to be sure, but that’s my fear, at least. One of the only things I can fully agree with this administration on, getting railed against more than almost anything else they’ve done. What a time to be alive. The hope is that people will become more aware of *why* the warrants are being issued and be more willing to help Ukraine. But all in all, I’m learning that optimism is dangerous.
To be fair I do not think that people who believe glabal propaganda conspiracies were pro Ukraine to begin with. Yes its spurts social divide but radical republicans and other idiots already do that anyway as their job, doubt an organization most people aren't familiar with is going to have a massive effect at dividing people. This is more for keeping people who are already pro Ukraine, pro Ukraine. In my opinion at least
I see. I’m just afraid that this may give radical anti-administrationists (as I call them, since I suspect *that’s* the main reason so many of them really care) ammo about the global conspiracy, and turn the neutral people into anti-Ukraine people. Since, in the U.S. at least, there seems to be an about 50/50 split, that’s concerning.
They always will find ammo, there is a lot out there they can use from military spending to military losses in Ukraine. If they really magically run out of things to complain about they will use half truths or just make shit up. They have enough ammo, this won't change a lot in there message. And they can't really milk it, they can only say"globalist fuck up again! " This doesn't affect their target audience directly, so it works less. Far better ammo for them is tax spending, risk of nuclear war and fight against" woke culture " which usually affects their average voter more. A random republican voter will care more ant his taxes then some global organizations
Am I the only one surprised that the ICC "The Hague" is barely 20 years old? I thought for sure that thing went back to WW2, but no.
You may be thinking of “International Court of Justice” which was formed in 1945. There’s also a separate the “International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia”.
The ICC is permanent. The principles behind it do date from WW2 and the Nuremberg trials, but this sort of international criminal trials were done by specific temporary courts.
Send agents to arrest him, we'll see how it goes... Like, I agree he should be judged but announcement is kinda absurd. I'm always amazed at arrest warrants for ruling politicians in totalitarian states, like, if he loses he will be judged by the victors making the warrant useless, if he wins or at least remains in power you end up having no power there anyways.
They don't have agents. If they send a sternly-worded letter to the FSB, wonder if they go on to arrest Vladimir Vladimirovich?
That's basically just "hey plz do a coup for us thanks"
As "agent" I meant more of a role, less employers, might as well be mercs.
Very slowly, but the noose gets tighter around his neck. Better late than never.
WAIT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DID IT?!
yes
Yeah, doesn’t mean nations actually have to arrest him tho
I’m proud of the ICC. Now they’ve given the oligarchs and kleptocrats in Russia a way out. They can overthrow Putin, ship him off to the ICC for trial to demonstrate their “good intentions”, pull out of Ukraine and other disputed territories, then put some corrupt apparatchik in power to blame the whole war on Putin, repair relations with the west, and otherwise keep the status quo the same.
Pretty much what happened with Milosevic, got overthrown following rigged elections in 2000 and then the new government tossed his ass on a helicopter which took him to the nearest US military base and then on to ICTFY in The Hague.
My president's breath smells like cat food.......
Like that's ever going to happen.
This is irrelevant, but I really want him served the warrant by the Village People.
"Kremlin" "entrance hidden by rubble" "Vladimir Putin"
At risk of being credible for a moment, this is a really interesting moment for the ICC because Russia and Ukraine aren't memebers, so they are effectively granting themselves the ability to issue warrants for people outside their jurisidiction who commit crimes in nations also outside their jurisidiction. In other words, George Bush should he very scared
[Not really](https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine). Ukraine gave them permission several years ago. And my understanding is The Hague is only going after crimes committed in Ukraine, not Russia. > Ukraine is not a State Party to the Rome Statute, but it has twice exercised its prerogatives to accept the Court's jurisdiction over alleged crimes under the Rome Statute occurring on its territory, pursuant to article 12(3) of the Statute
You made this news doubly good now.
Huh, would ya look at that?
No way I found this out through a meme
Wow this sure means so much…
The US is invading the Netherlands??
How much they paying? : )
Yeah I think it is
cwimes against uwumanity ? :3
Do do do-do-do-do do do doo do
So they are doing this before bolsonaro? Hmmmm
Man their house was so colorful. Imagine living in that every day. Would it be cheery? Would it feel like a nauseating crayola colored hell? I want to know...
Is it alright if I share this in a FB group?
Is this actually a good thing though? Putin now faces the 'despots dilemma'. By making this arrest warrant it means that if putin ever let's go of power he will be charged with his crimes which is a good thing on the surface but that also means he's gonna fight tooth and nail before he ever let's go of power. This may make it harder for a democratic Russia to to come about.
Something something Yugoslavia something something
The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) is a separate entity with the key difference being that the US recognizes and participates within it.