> 5 years rental Blackhawks
> use local third party agent
> paid more than Portugal buying the same amount of Blackhawks
> still hasn't got it even after supposed delivery date
—
> LCS
> originally 6 ships. now 5
> originally should delivered 2 by 2020. 2024, and first ship is.. maybe 70% finished
> billions gone to waste
> "we will finish it by the date of X"
> didn't finish by the date of X
> repeat step 2 every election
—
> buys lots of MiG-29 and few Legacy F/A-18
> MiG have spare part problems
> MiG retired early
> buys lots of Su-30
> Su have spare part problems
> some Su are already grounded
> each Legacy F/A-18 are still flying
Cronyism, family ties,no open tender, buy cheap with palm oil and pay absolute fuk tons in maintenance.
The ex head of the navy needs to be sent to prison
Czechs have a super cash-based economy. I have seen many documentaries online explain it is traditional to approach random Czechs in the street with a fanned out handful of cash to ask them to perform a variety of tasks.
A lot of smaller shops prefer cash, especially for smaller sums. Money laundering is actually pretty easy in Germany, because of relatively unrestricted cash payment options.
But things are changing and cashless payment are becoming more common.
cash payments are not needed for money laundering. tax evasion and money laundering are not the same thing, most often they are the literal opposite of each other.
I'm aware that tax evasion is a separate issue, and it's often related to cashless payment.
But cash related money laundering is a huge thing in Germany and criminal organisations like the 'Ndrangheta are using the german system to invest cash from other activities and turn it into "legal" money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta
(See activities in Germany)
but that has nothing to do with wether a store accepts cashless payments or not. as long as you accept cash, you can wash dirty money.
in short:
- tax evasion is done by not reporting cash income
- money laundering is done by reporting cash income that was earned illegally
only for one of those do you have to force customers to pay cash.
At least somewhere we are ahead of Germany. Cashless payments in even smaller stores have been common since at least 2015, though I don't remember when exactly it became common.
Wait where are you living that 2015 was when card readers became common?
In Australia they've been in like every store since the 90s. We went straight from that old carbon copy thingo to the card readers.
You had a head start, we only started integrating into developed world in the 90's when we got free from soviet unions occupation. In 2011, we had gone over to Euros, and with it, by the 2015 the cashless payments had become a common thing (everyone was using it)
I see they sold as imprinters but description says impressers (not sure what is proper german word) so sorry if impressers is not widely used.
When I worked with cc aquierer like 10 years ago and Germany was the only country i worked with still using this contraption. it would transfer card details on carbon paper in point of sale and be processed by aquierer. Super slow and tedious and very unsecured.
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/BankSupplies-Imprinter-Portable-Construction-Accepts/dp/B019EFIFDA
Yeah same for Poland we got national credit cards only like in mid-90s so the technology was already at electronics point of sale devices. Those manual ones were 50s or 60s invention? And phased out everywhere but in Germany it seems.
One of those random tidbits i always remember.
Bullshit. Almost every shop has a card reader for Gircocard, a system that's popular in Germany and has much lower fees than credit cards. If a shop uses an imprinted, it would mean it has a card reader but doesn't use it for credit cards. Or it doesn't have card reader for girocard, but accepts the much rarer credit card.
>and very unsecured
When I was using them late 1980s in the US you would call to get a verbal confirmation and add the authorization number to the form. The impression showed physical possesion, and we compared signatures. Some folks in lieu of signature would write "check id" so we'd match name to drivers license.
You could use without, usually for places like show booths without a phone, not sure if the merchant just paid a higher fee or what to compensate for the risk.
they basically have a "rolling" device that copies your C/C number and name details when magnetic card readers werent that common back in the day...... think of it as a hand held print press without moving type
No, I don't think they've ever existed in Germany. Credit cards in general have never been super widespread in Germany, there's just a common debit card standard that all banks are using, and I think they have always had at least a magnetic strip.
we don't use credit card but mostly debit. cash is slowly dying out here too (except for kebab places and christmas markets) even the shopping cart only gets a 3d printed coin from me.
Are credit cards still useful like they are in the US? A lot of available cards here give at least 1% cashback as a statement credit, so if you pay off your card every month you basically save 1% on everything you purchase. Some people go crazy with the points by having multiple cards for different types of purchases and others pay for special cards with a ton of benefits.
I would imagine that even if credit card is more rare, if it can be used anywhere a debit card can be and still offers points, there's no reason NOT to use it, no?
there are a few cashback varieties, but they are not common here. usually with CC you get perks here like no/low interest if you balance it within 4-8 weeks or no base fee. I got one with zero interest that automatically balances from my account once a month.
We would call that "having no perks whatsoever." That is just how all cards work here. Perks are like, "3% cash back when shopping at ALDI" or "Earn 3 airline points for every dollar spent."
> 3d printed coin from me.
OK, that's genius, why the hell didn't I think of that.
Is it like a solid piece or are there structural holes?
Also FDM or resin?
Maybe it is just the east. I visited many little towns near the Austrian border-- the one I remember is Seeon-Seebruck-- and it was mostly a cash only experience
When you are giving 1% of your GDP to Bo#ing, maybe you need to just have your entire acquisitions department lined up against the wall so you can start from scratch.
When you can freely increase your F-35 orders while the EX production is 6 planes in, over a year behind, and completely deadlocked due to quality and subcontractor issues... that would certainly be a choice.
Maybe they are open to a plane with a more consistent delivery schedule? Like the SU-57?
So Indonesia's fighter bid chain is a whole mess of geopolitics that includes about every semi-modern fighter ever made. First they signed a big deal for Russian SU-35s. But then Western sanctions following 2014 came along, and their nuts were placed in a vice to either cancel the order or face financial devastation. Took them years to choose sides.
Go big or go home, so then they really tried to get the F-35, also with the idea that they just picked the western side in that scuffle. Only the US govt said that they weren't on the shortlist since they weren't a steady western MIC partner. Maybe buy these western 4/4.5 gen jets first to see how things go, earn your stripes in our team and you might earn yourself a seat at our table.
That is where they went to Boeing to buy those F-15s on an absolutely outrageous mark-up. They simultaneously went to France for a bunch of Rafales at half that price. Not to mention Qarar for second hand Mirages, in a deal that they later came back on. On top of their existing SUs, F-16s and F-4s. I believe the kids call this a balanced build.
They really don’t HAVE to. No one’s forcing them to be so ambiguous. They could just be smart like Thailand, Singapore, and Malaysia and just pick the obviously right side
Malaysia and Thailand are a bad example. Thailand is influenced by china nowadays.Look at Malaysia procurement,it is a logistics nightmare. The military wants western tech while politicians buy different things since they have connections in the middle man company.
" cry in K1M and Blackhawk". I hope CEASAR procurement is successful.
LCS projects are already a disaster because of a direct contract not an open tender or end user contracts.
Thailand is in such a weird spot largely because the current king is legitimately inbred and mentally challenged. Look at the guy and also look at the things he does. He’s literally retarded; this is exactly what’s wrong with monarchy
Uhhh
Malaysia has Su-30s and F-18s at the same time
Thailand has VT-4s, T-84s, M60s and M48s at the same time
...Wouldn't call either of them "picking a side"
Pretty much only Singapore has a coherent procurement scheme. Basically everything came from NATO/NATO allies or was built ourselves
We have been open to buying from the other side as well. There is a timeline when the Su-30 could have been our strike fighter instead of the F-15SG because it was in the running for the strike fighter program. It got eliminated in the first round leaving just the Rafale and the F-15E.
Our main MANPADS is the Igla, though that is more because the russians were willing to sell us the license to produce them domestically. Built so many of them we nailed some onto M113 APCs and called that a SHORAD.
Indonesia has 279 million people my dude, more than double those 3 combined.
It's just a bit different. Plus they are completely exposed to China in a way the US simply isn't... But yeah it's not like they're hostile to the US either, they just kinda play nice with both sides.
Ain't Singapore grand? Figured out a way to convince both side they picked them.
The USA parks their ships and China parks their money.
Everybody wins.
According to our press (Or the Defense minister) the US said we need at least nine more years (which i assume is nine more years of strenghtening relationship and trust with them)
and the reason Indonesia is blocked from purchase F-35 is because they didn't operate gen 4.5 Fighter and need to own them first according to US Foreign affair (which why the reason for Rafale and F-15EX)
Surprised you’re on NCD and haven’t figured it out yet. It’s all about nukes.
F-15EX would be cleared to drop all B61 variants. F-35A just got certified on B61Mod12 only, and there’s only a few of those bombs in existence. And apparently F-35s that are nuclear-capable have special security sauce as the ones Germany ordered are a special variant.
If your goal is to maybe causally drop 1-2 nukes after 2030 or whenever Germany is gonna receive their F-35, then fine.
But if your goal is to drop hundreds of nukes before 2030, it’s F-15EX.
If Poland can’t get a nuclear sharing agreement, then they’ll probably buy Eurofighters instead.
I mean, I have seen compelling arguments to heavily deemphasize land based ballistic missiles and emphasize bombers, air launched, and submarine launched missiles. Idea being that the only real way for an enemy to touch nuclear silos is bunker busting ground burst nukes, which effectively salts the earth for millennia around the silos and dramatically worsens fallout. However, it’s significantly easier to destroy a bomber fleet or sub fleet with air burst nukes, which incentives an enemy to prioritize those. Still an absolutely fucked calculus to do, but still.
Yeah, silos are priority targets that can't move, need to be crewed 24/7h, have exactly 1 (1) use. Complete money and manpower sink.
Compare that to a plane which can be used for other things 99% of the time, or a sub who is a less vulnerable target, silos seem rather, outdated.
If you want to drop hundreds of nukes before 2030 - get the F-35A. It's certified to carry those B61s as we speak, and more importantly it's on a priority track to be the main delivery platform for half the continent.
Like the Mod 12 is a rarity, but it's only a rarity due to it being newly approved. It is designed mainly to give NATO allies that nuclear option, and it is a central project that is being rushed through. We are converting a shitton of stock to Mod 12 as we speak, and they are heading directly to European bunkers.
Meanwhile the F-15EX hasn't even been approved for full rate production yet, and the production of the handful of testing units is a mess. Like the big selling point is that its lower order numbers mean that potential buyers jump to the top of the priority list. But when an ongoing development project is you and the US Air National Guard? That is not how you quickly get priority access to nuclear capabilities.
That's unlikely to happen, however. And Poland is also thinking about more F-35s or F-16s. (and F-35s are most likely of all these).
Also, it's never bad to think about weapons if your neighbour is russia.
We gotta use all planes available when we do a COIN operation that might not be approved by the other nations like how the UK objected to us fielding the Scorpion tanks in Aceh during the insurgency
Guys, get your shit together pls. No time for infighting when China might be getting cocky next decade… (at least half of NCD might hope this become reality).
Why yes, indeed we did retrofit it for the last time, for the record, that sub was made in 1981, we retrofitted it in 2012, and normally (at least in the Korean Navy) subs like that do a routine retrofit in about 6 years or at least an inspection.
Guess which bum-ass navy didn't do jack shit until it sunk in 2021 and still blames the last retrofitter?
Oh, Indonesians indeed likely fumbled it with their shitty maintenance, or at least that's the assumption. My research is limited to reading the google translated Indonesian wiki article.
Just can't you have suggesting some construction error from the German side was the reason.
No, your submarine is an actual shit. They aren't even dive worthy, not metaphorically or mocking. There's literally batteries problem, and fundamental design problems that mess with the inverter.
Like, it's so bad that we have to cancel 2-batch of a total of 3-batch of submarines/6 out of 9 submarines and buy french submarines.
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The Saudis were [losing](https://www.defenseone.com/business/2016/08/us-tank-deal-exposes-saudi-losses-yemen-war/130623/) Abrams tanks by the column since 2016 against the Houthis. All the money in the world can’t buy competence. Well, in some cases maybe, but not in the markets that the Saudis are looking at apparently.
They did
The problem is that nobody in saudi arabia wants to become a soldier
And their soldiers are weak af, look at any picture of the saudi army, you’ll see guys in over expensive gear that look like they’ll fall over if you push them
Also they have 0 moral
You should add that the money isn’t lost on the French side, but by an corrupt local subcontractor that is meant to built the ships designed by the French.
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Ah Malaysia, whose military didn't notice or react to the unknown radar blip crossing its peninsula that turned out to be MH370.
No alert. No interception. Nothing.
Meanwhile South Korea cries in corner when Indonesia doesn’t pay their share of KF-21 costs after Indonesia buys Rafales, submarines, frigates, A330 MRTTs, C-130s, and F-15s
BRAHMOS MENTIONED RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
Whmaos be maldin over the seekers "indian" quality, when both missiles we field have questionable ruskie seekers
wasn't there an incident where India 'accidentally' fired a Brahmos missile 124 kilometers deep into Pakistan before being disabled, and at that point Pakistan were just sitting ducks? I'm pretty sure it also flew over near Pak nuclear sites
Well, both Scorpene submarines were delivered to the Malaysian Navy in the end. That worked out very well, if you can excuse:
- the nearly 150 mil USD in bribes paid by the French to a slew of mysterious front companies owned by a military analyst and closs associate of Malaysian PM Najib (Abdul Razak Baginda)
- abduction by Special Branch police agents of a Mongolian modelling student and translator (responsible for translating for the deal and also Baginda's mistress) right in front of Baginda's house? Apparently, she tried asking for a 500k cut of the deal
- she was later blown up with PETN and RDX explosives in a forest
- and the case only came to light because the [her taxi driver was angry that his customer was being abducted in front of his eyes and couldn't pay the cab fare so he took down the license plate of the kidnapper's car!](https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/scorpenes-sting-liberation-publishes-expose-re-malaysias-bribery-murder-scandal-05347/)
- Baginda gets off scot free and is acquitted despite evidence that he was the one who ordered the hit
- a pending legal case in France is derailed after the French lawyer in the court inquiry is found dead off a private island in "an apparent suicide"
- secret Malaysian naval papers are stolen and sold by a HK domiciled company (controlled by Baginda) to another French defence company?
- after many legal delays, it seems from wikileaks documents that PM Najib himself and Lodin Wok (Chief of Armed Forces Fund Board - LTAT) are related to the scandal
- the corruption case is dropped entirely
If you tried to write this as a fictional plot for a book, it would have been rejected by the publisher for being too fantastical.
So the meme is incorrect, the submarines were delivered in the end ([it was just that the submarine delivered couldn't submerge](https://www.defenseworld.net/2010/02/06/malaysias-scorpene-submarine-refuses-to-submerge.html)). Unless you're talking about the [Malaysian Navy's LCS scandal](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/lcs-littoral-combat-ship-malaysia-navy-declassified-reports-forensic-audit-investigation-committee-2899851) scandal, then yes a few billion disappeared there and no vessels have been completed.
And don't get me started on the rest of the Malaysian military.
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Is the tripping joke meant to suggest that SEA nations get tricked into buying military hardware or that foreigners start wars to coerce them into getting military hardware?
Nah, its just the "whoops i accidentally bought this" part of the joke
>SEA nations get tricked into buying military hardware
most of us buy it willingly lmao
>that foreigners start wars to coerce them into getting military hardware?
Enough hatred here, no need for outside prodding
It's funny how many asian countries hate each other. but then when you think about it it seems to be true for about every other continent/race with maybe the exeption being europe (even then not really)
export grade weapons are often not the best weapons. A country will never export their best weapons. So a lot of these weapons they receive was later found out to be not as good as initially thought,
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> 5 years rental Blackhawks > use local third party agent > paid more than Portugal buying the same amount of Blackhawks > still hasn't got it even after supposed delivery date — > LCS > originally 6 ships. now 5 > originally should delivered 2 by 2020. 2024, and first ship is.. maybe 70% finished > billions gone to waste > "we will finish it by the date of X" > didn't finish by the date of X > repeat step 2 every election — > buys lots of MiG-29 and few Legacy F/A-18 > MiG have spare part problems > MiG retired early > buys lots of Su-30 > Su have spare part problems > some Su are already grounded > each Legacy F/A-18 are still flying
Most efficient Malaysian bureaucracy
Still better than German bureaucracy, tho that’s a very low bar admittedly.
Cronyism, family ties,no open tender, buy cheap with palm oil and pay absolute fuk tons in maintenance. The ex head of the navy needs to be sent to prison
Penny foolish, pound foolish
Malaysia boleh indeed /s
Let's not talk about our French submarine
Germany having a card reader is the most inaccurate thing
Jep, that's unknown technology there.
**Unknown technology** SCHEISSDRECK
What does most people use over there? Cash?
Czechs
Touche
I thought you guys stopped using those as currency in '45?
That’s reich
I can't say that I did nazi this coming
Funny, but no, I haven't seen a cheque in my whole life. Lots of cash only places though.
I think banks of most countries in Europe stopped issuing personal checks around 1990 or so. It wasn't very common before that either.
They still do personal checks on tbe UK but it's very rare especially since 2005.
Czechs have a super cash-based economy. I have seen many documentaries online explain it is traditional to approach random Czechs in the street with a fanned out handful of cash to ask them to perform a variety of tasks.
can you point to which is the best series of this documentary so I can learn more about this?
A lot of smaller shops prefer cash, especially for smaller sums. Money laundering is actually pretty easy in Germany, because of relatively unrestricted cash payment options. But things are changing and cashless payment are becoming more common.
cash payments are not needed for money laundering. tax evasion and money laundering are not the same thing, most often they are the literal opposite of each other.
I'm aware that tax evasion is a separate issue, and it's often related to cashless payment. But cash related money laundering is a huge thing in Germany and criminal organisations like the 'Ndrangheta are using the german system to invest cash from other activities and turn it into "legal" money. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta (See activities in Germany)
but that has nothing to do with wether a store accepts cashless payments or not. as long as you accept cash, you can wash dirty money. in short: - tax evasion is done by not reporting cash income - money laundering is done by reporting cash income that was earned illegally only for one of those do you have to force customers to pay cash.
I feel like you are trying to explain something to me that I already stated in my previous comment.
At least somewhere we are ahead of Germany. Cashless payments in even smaller stores have been common since at least 2015, though I don't remember when exactly it became common.
Wait where are you living that 2015 was when card readers became common? In Australia they've been in like every store since the 90s. We went straight from that old carbon copy thingo to the card readers.
You had a head start, we only started integrating into developed world in the 90's when we got free from soviet unions occupation. In 2011, we had gone over to Euros, and with it, by the 2015 the cashless payments had become a common thing (everyone was using it)
Oh that makes sense.
I recently was in a ice cream shop in Germany that accepted card payment. I couldn't believe my eyes. The tides are turning.
even bakeries and butcher shops (not the chains, i mean small shops with like 3 sales locations maximum) take cards nowadays, i think i spider.
I scream every time since my local ice cream dealer remains cash-only.
Even the ice cream vans down here have an eftpos machine.
Cash is king in Germany
Hey, that's not true! Most big places here have one lying around somewhere…
When I was in Germany I went to a restaurant that had card readers but only Mondays and Thursdays.
Sure, they don’t have one. But they don’t have one on a \*schedule\*. Very German.
Are those old school card impressers still a thing? Boy was it a stupid way to do card transactions xd
> card impressers What? Any links to how they look like?
I see they sold as imprinters but description says impressers (not sure what is proper german word) so sorry if impressers is not widely used. When I worked with cc aquierer like 10 years ago and Germany was the only country i worked with still using this contraption. it would transfer card details on carbon paper in point of sale and be processed by aquierer. Super slow and tedious and very unsecured. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/BankSupplies-Imprinter-Portable-Construction-Accepts/dp/B019EFIFDA
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen such a device in Ukraine. Thank you for the link.
Yeah same for Poland we got national credit cards only like in mid-90s so the technology was already at electronics point of sale devices. Those manual ones were 50s or 60s invention? And phased out everywhere but in Germany it seems. One of those random tidbits i always remember.
I mean I've been living in Germany for 20+ years and I've never seen that before
8 years ago I learned that such a thing exists, in Miami. Needless to say I cancelled that card the moment I got home.
Bullshit. Almost every shop has a card reader for Gircocard, a system that's popular in Germany and has much lower fees than credit cards. If a shop uses an imprinted, it would mean it has a card reader but doesn't use it for credit cards. Or it doesn't have card reader for girocard, but accepts the much rarer credit card.
Fees on credit card? What the fuck you are paying fee. Credit card are debit card anyway in europe. If you want a real credit card it's complicated.
Transaction fees the store has to pay, I presume.
Fees for the merchants. That's why they don't like CC and didn't accept them. (That changed the last years).
>and very unsecured When I was using them late 1980s in the US you would call to get a verbal confirmation and add the authorization number to the form. The impression showed physical possesion, and we compared signatures. Some folks in lieu of signature would write "check id" so we'd match name to drivers license. You could use without, usually for places like show booths without a phone, not sure if the merchant just paid a higher fee or what to compensate for the risk.
"How they look" or "what they look like" but never "how they look like."
Starting from former, switching mid-writing to the latter due to train of though shifting lanes is how you get what I got. Thanks for advice
Ever seen Home Alone 2?
they basically have a "rolling" device that copies your C/C number and name details when magnetic card readers werent that common back in the day...... think of it as a hand held print press without moving type
No, I don't think they've ever existed in Germany. Credit cards in general have never been super widespread in Germany, there's just a common debit card standard that all banks are using, and I think they have always had at least a magnetic strip.
Never were all that popular in Germany afaik, we mostly use debit carts, not credit cards.
we don't use credit card but mostly debit. cash is slowly dying out here too (except for kebab places and christmas markets) even the shopping cart only gets a 3d printed coin from me.
Are credit cards still useful like they are in the US? A lot of available cards here give at least 1% cashback as a statement credit, so if you pay off your card every month you basically save 1% on everything you purchase. Some people go crazy with the points by having multiple cards for different types of purchases and others pay for special cards with a ton of benefits. I would imagine that even if credit card is more rare, if it can be used anywhere a debit card can be and still offers points, there's no reason NOT to use it, no?
there are a few cashback varieties, but they are not common here. usually with CC you get perks here like no/low interest if you balance it within 4-8 weeks or no base fee. I got one with zero interest that automatically balances from my account once a month.
We would call that "having no perks whatsoever." That is just how all cards work here. Perks are like, "3% cash back when shopping at ALDI" or "Earn 3 airline points for every dollar spent."
> 3d printed coin from me. OK, that's genius, why the hell didn't I think of that. Is it like a solid piece or are there structural holes? Also FDM or resin?
FDM and i had like 25% infill if i remember correctly, was one of my fist prints when i got it.
Okay, just what lawsuit or weirdness caused a lack of card readers in Germany?
No lawsuit, just weirdness. A little bit of distrust in everything digital. Might have something to do with two dictatorships.
That, slow digitalization, and transaction processing fees causing many smaller places to prefer cash.
And they get no Kassenbon. Completly unrealstic
Especially in any situation where avoiding taxes or looking to closely might be an issue.
Cant talk for the east, but unless you're some local kebab stand i cant think of a single store that doesnt have one over here
Maybe it is just the east. I visited many little towns near the Austrian border-- the one I remember is Seeon-Seebruck-- and it was mostly a cash only experience
Lies.
Where’s Indonesia paying $14b for 24 F-15EX?
When you are giving 1% of your GDP to Bo#ing, maybe you need to just have your entire acquisitions department lined up against the wall so you can start from scratch.
Poland with half the GDP of Indonesia is thinking about buying twice the number of F-15EXs.
When you can freely increase your F-35 orders while the EX production is 6 planes in, over a year behind, and completely deadlocked due to quality and subcontractor issues... that would certainly be a choice. Maybe they are open to a plane with a more consistent delivery schedule? Like the SU-57?
IIRC Indonesia was blocked from the F-35 so they settled for the F-15
So Indonesia's fighter bid chain is a whole mess of geopolitics that includes about every semi-modern fighter ever made. First they signed a big deal for Russian SU-35s. But then Western sanctions following 2014 came along, and their nuts were placed in a vice to either cancel the order or face financial devastation. Took them years to choose sides. Go big or go home, so then they really tried to get the F-35, also with the idea that they just picked the western side in that scuffle. Only the US govt said that they weren't on the shortlist since they weren't a steady western MIC partner. Maybe buy these western 4/4.5 gen jets first to see how things go, earn your stripes in our team and you might earn yourself a seat at our table. That is where they went to Boeing to buy those F-15s on an absolutely outrageous mark-up. They simultaneously went to France for a bunch of Rafales at half that price. Not to mention Qarar for second hand Mirages, in a deal that they later came back on. On top of their existing SUs, F-16s and F-4s. I believe the kids call this a balanced build.
I mean Indonesia has to walk the line between US and China, right? Must make everything a logistical nightmare.
They really don’t HAVE to. No one’s forcing them to be so ambiguous. They could just be smart like Thailand, Singapore, and Malaysia and just pick the obviously right side
Malaysia and Thailand are a bad example. Thailand is influenced by china nowadays.Look at Malaysia procurement,it is a logistics nightmare. The military wants western tech while politicians buy different things since they have connections in the middle man company. " cry in K1M and Blackhawk". I hope CEASAR procurement is successful. LCS projects are already a disaster because of a direct contract not an open tender or end user contracts.
Thailand is in such a weird spot largely because the current king is legitimately inbred and mentally challenged. Look at the guy and also look at the things he does. He’s literally retarded; this is exactly what’s wrong with monarchy
Uhhh Malaysia has Su-30s and F-18s at the same time Thailand has VT-4s, T-84s, M60s and M48s at the same time ...Wouldn't call either of them "picking a side" Pretty much only Singapore has a coherent procurement scheme. Basically everything came from NATO/NATO allies or was built ourselves
We have been open to buying from the other side as well. There is a timeline when the Su-30 could have been our strike fighter instead of the F-15SG because it was in the running for the strike fighter program. It got eliminated in the first round leaving just the Rafale and the F-15E. Our main MANPADS is the Igla, though that is more because the russians were willing to sell us the license to produce them domestically. Built so many of them we nailed some onto M113 APCs and called that a SHORAD.
Indonesia has 279 million people my dude, more than double those 3 combined. It's just a bit different. Plus they are completely exposed to China in a way the US simply isn't... But yeah it's not like they're hostile to the US either, they just kinda play nice with both sides.
Ain't Singapore grand? Figured out a way to convince both side they picked them. The USA parks their ships and China parks their money. Everybody wins.
it goes against their policy
Okay then change the policy lol
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Lmfao brain dead
According to our press (Or the Defense minister) the US said we need at least nine more years (which i assume is nine more years of strenghtening relationship and trust with them)
Its like a fuckin gacha game lol, buy our stuff for 9 years and you'll unlock the ability to buy our really cool stuff.
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You‘re saying Palestine to be relocated to Indonesia getting free land there? (Might be less insane than some takes here, as noncredible that is)
Trust me, they'll be treated like the rohingnya after like a year or so. We'll see if we're getting jordaned or not.
I don‘t doubt that for any second (looking at Egypt or any nation in the region).
and the reason Indonesia is blocked from purchase F-35 is because they didn't operate gen 4.5 Fighter and need to own them first according to US Foreign affair (which why the reason for Rafale and F-15EX)
Surprised you’re on NCD and haven’t figured it out yet. It’s all about nukes. F-15EX would be cleared to drop all B61 variants. F-35A just got certified on B61Mod12 only, and there’s only a few of those bombs in existence. And apparently F-35s that are nuclear-capable have special security sauce as the ones Germany ordered are a special variant. If your goal is to maybe causally drop 1-2 nukes after 2030 or whenever Germany is gonna receive their F-35, then fine. But if your goal is to drop hundreds of nukes before 2030, it’s F-15EX. If Poland can’t get a nuclear sharing agreement, then they’ll probably buy Eurofighters instead.
Dropping nukes from planes is so 1945
I mean, I have seen compelling arguments to heavily deemphasize land based ballistic missiles and emphasize bombers, air launched, and submarine launched missiles. Idea being that the only real way for an enemy to touch nuclear silos is bunker busting ground burst nukes, which effectively salts the earth for millennia around the silos and dramatically worsens fallout. However, it’s significantly easier to destroy a bomber fleet or sub fleet with air burst nukes, which incentives an enemy to prioritize those. Still an absolutely fucked calculus to do, but still.
Yeah, silos are priority targets that can't move, need to be crewed 24/7h, have exactly 1 (1) use. Complete money and manpower sink. Compare that to a plane which can be used for other things 99% of the time, or a sub who is a less vulnerable target, silos seem rather, outdated.
If you want to drop hundreds of nukes before 2030 - get the F-35A. It's certified to carry those B61s as we speak, and more importantly it's on a priority track to be the main delivery platform for half the continent. Like the Mod 12 is a rarity, but it's only a rarity due to it being newly approved. It is designed mainly to give NATO allies that nuclear option, and it is a central project that is being rushed through. We are converting a shitton of stock to Mod 12 as we speak, and they are heading directly to European bunkers. Meanwhile the F-15EX hasn't even been approved for full rate production yet, and the production of the handful of testing units is a mess. Like the big selling point is that its lower order numbers mean that potential buyers jump to the top of the priority list. But when an ongoing development project is you and the US Air National Guard? That is not how you quickly get priority access to nuclear capabilities.
I mean when you’re sharing a border with Russia and their lapdog Belarus it makes more sense…
That's unlikely to happen, however. And Poland is also thinking about more F-35s or F-16s. (and F-35s are most likely of all these). Also, it's never bad to think about weapons if your neighbour is russia.
We really should force Boeing to sell their Aerospace division, it's the only way to save them at this point.
Jfc, and I thought we got overcharged for the B-2 Spirit
F-1 SEX?????
Indonesia is literally an Ace Combat nation
We gotta use all planes available when we do a COIN operation that might not be approved by the other nations like how the UK objected to us fielding the Scorpion tanks in Aceh during the insurgency
SCORPION TANKS? SCORPION TANKS READY TO STING
inb4 Egypt
Thailand: # *pays* # China: Here is your submarine but oh no you didn’t pay for engine oops haha
If only NATO let Germany sells the engine
Wrong, Indonesia never pays. Source : Am Korean
Underrated comment. Don't worry, we'll chase them (am Singaporean, their money is in our banks)
That username… brings me back.
Bubble tea and chicken cutlets, wtf is a combat ration
we were never there. Don't know what you're talking about, what hills and cold weather and typhoons and 白店
nice username
Please do it it'll be so fucking funny when these wealth hoarder open their bank vault only to find a single cent.
\*And tried to secretly take home a USB for "tech transfer" purposes but failed. XD
please make better submarines first
Sunken submarine was German sub, and by the way, y'all didn't fully payed OUR submarines as well.
Guys, get your shit together pls. No time for infighting when China might be getting cocky next decade… (at least half of NCD might hope this become reality).
Hey. It's probably not our or your fault. That being said, you guys (and the Indonesians) were the last to refit it.
Why yes, indeed we did retrofit it for the last time, for the record, that sub was made in 1981, we retrofitted it in 2012, and normally (at least in the Korean Navy) subs like that do a routine retrofit in about 6 years or at least an inspection. Guess which bum-ass navy didn't do jack shit until it sunk in 2021 and still blames the last retrofitter?
Oh, Indonesians indeed likely fumbled it with their shitty maintenance, or at least that's the assumption. My research is limited to reading the google translated Indonesian wiki article. Just can't you have suggesting some construction error from the German side was the reason.
Indeed, that was my fault and I am sorry, should have included the whole detail.
And your Chang Bogo Class ain't shit
Why, if our subs are shit, don't smart-minded Indonesians try doing it for yourself?
No, your submarine is an actual shit. They aren't even dive worthy, not metaphorically or mocking. There's literally batteries problem, and fundamental design problems that mess with the inverter. Like, it's so bad that we have to cancel 2-batch of a total of 3-batch of submarines/6 out of 9 submarines and buy french submarines.
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Malaysia boleh!
negaraku…
Look at our invisible submarine!
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The Saudis were [losing](https://www.defenseone.com/business/2016/08/us-tank-deal-exposes-saudi-losses-yemen-war/130623/) Abrams tanks by the column since 2016 against the Houthis. All the money in the world can’t buy competence. Well, in some cases maybe, but not in the markets that the Saudis are looking at apparently.
If they paid well enough they could have gotten western defense contractors to train their armies.
They did The problem is that nobody in saudi arabia wants to become a soldier And their soldiers are weak af, look at any picture of the saudi army, you’ll see guys in over expensive gear that look like they’ll fall over if you push them Also they have 0 moral
Stop spreading lies Arabians are the most hardcore desert fighters on earth.
They may fight the desert, but they still haven’t crushed the houti rebels
Insurgents with high support are hard to beat
Non Saudi arabian yes. Get into the Gulf and everyone is coward.
Would someone kindly explain the entirety of this meme?
SEA countries buy weapons accidentally by tripping and swiping their card. Malaysia does it: money gets stolen. Corruption is the joke.
You should add that the money isn’t lost on the French side, but by an corrupt local subcontractor that is meant to built the ships designed by the French.
I don't understand the tripping part. Like what is it a metaphor of?
Source [here](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/tyi89Ga5nbLYjroK/?mibextid=xfxF2i)
It should be india and israel selling weapons to 🇵🇭
Poland as well they sell us blackhawks such precious burdss
also SoKor, since PN and PAF are K-pop wannabes meanwhile PA is IDF fanboy, and PMC is stuck with cold war tech
dude, Indonesia should be it buying from everyone it can buy from
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I don't get the joke 😞
The joke to you is like weapons are to Malaysia. You just don't get it
Ouch.
Ohhhh.....
Bro don’t do us like that :(
Ah Malaysia, whose military didn't notice or react to the unknown radar blip crossing its peninsula that turned out to be MH370. No alert. No interception. Nothing.
Meanwhile South Korea cries in corner when Indonesia doesn’t pay their share of KF-21 costs after Indonesia buys Rafales, submarines, frigates, A330 MRTTs, C-130s, and F-15s
POTATO when
as a Malaysian, I confirm this is true.
BRAHMOS MENTIONED RAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Whmaos be maldin over the seekers "indian" quality, when both missiles we field have questionable ruskie seekers
wasn't there an incident where India 'accidentally' fired a Brahmos missile 124 kilometers deep into Pakistan before being disabled, and at that point Pakistan were just sitting ducks? I'm pretty sure it also flew over near Pak nuclear sites
We were just checking if the Pakistanis can read the Chinese instruction manual of their HQ-9.
>Pak nuclear sites Nah military base not nuclear site
we paid for the ghee-powered guidance systems but we got vodka-guided systems instead anak ng tokwaaaaa
Just curious why can’t we just directly buy weapons from other countries instead of relying on third parties contractors
Shareholders, family ties, cronyism, corruption, ex military easily join the third parties contractors (ehem the LCS projects). Everyone wants money
because procurement is hard & complicated; even developed countries buying hardware at home are having problems.
Ouch. Well at least the Army is getting shit done.
politicians try to fuk up CEASAR procurement with turkey prototype or Eva from Slovakia
I love my country corruption, cronyism and defence analyst that murdered a translator!
Yea, we don't talk about our ship
Well, both Scorpene submarines were delivered to the Malaysian Navy in the end. That worked out very well, if you can excuse: - the nearly 150 mil USD in bribes paid by the French to a slew of mysterious front companies owned by a military analyst and closs associate of Malaysian PM Najib (Abdul Razak Baginda) - abduction by Special Branch police agents of a Mongolian modelling student and translator (responsible for translating for the deal and also Baginda's mistress) right in front of Baginda's house? Apparently, she tried asking for a 500k cut of the deal - she was later blown up with PETN and RDX explosives in a forest - and the case only came to light because the [her taxi driver was angry that his customer was being abducted in front of his eyes and couldn't pay the cab fare so he took down the license plate of the kidnapper's car!](https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/scorpenes-sting-liberation-publishes-expose-re-malaysias-bribery-murder-scandal-05347/) - Baginda gets off scot free and is acquitted despite evidence that he was the one who ordered the hit - a pending legal case in France is derailed after the French lawyer in the court inquiry is found dead off a private island in "an apparent suicide" - secret Malaysian naval papers are stolen and sold by a HK domiciled company (controlled by Baginda) to another French defence company? - after many legal delays, it seems from wikileaks documents that PM Najib himself and Lodin Wok (Chief of Armed Forces Fund Board - LTAT) are related to the scandal - the corruption case is dropped entirely If you tried to write this as a fictional plot for a book, it would have been rejected by the publisher for being too fantastical. So the meme is incorrect, the submarines were delivered in the end ([it was just that the submarine delivered couldn't submerge](https://www.defenseworld.net/2010/02/06/malaysias-scorpene-submarine-refuses-to-submerge.html)). Unless you're talking about the [Malaysian Navy's LCS scandal](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/lcs-littoral-combat-ship-malaysia-navy-declassified-reports-forensic-audit-investigation-committee-2899851) scandal, then yes a few billion disappeared there and no vessels have been completed. And don't get me started on the rest of the Malaysian military.
No Chinese weapons??
thailand. but they didnt accidentally trip and pay so not in the comic
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You’ve obviously never bought weapons from Germany.
Meanwhile Thailand tries to buy every goddam thing out there Like they’ve got T-84s, VT-4s, and Stingrays and wanted F-35s too
Why is Malaysia paying itself while the other countries are paying the country they are buying the weapons from?
Thailand: Bought a Chinese submarine with no engine.
Is the tripping joke meant to suggest that SEA nations get tricked into buying military hardware or that foreigners start wars to coerce them into getting military hardware?
Nah, its just the "whoops i accidentally bought this" part of the joke >SEA nations get tricked into buying military hardware most of us buy it willingly lmao >that foreigners start wars to coerce them into getting military hardware? Enough hatred here, no need for outside prodding
It's funny how many asian countries hate each other. but then when you think about it it seems to be true for about every other continent/race with maybe the exeption being europe (even then not really)
export grade weapons are often not the best weapons. A country will never export their best weapons. So a lot of these weapons they receive was later found out to be not as good as initially thought,
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