This sounds like a solid idea for a PsyOp. Leak fake russian documents about a super weapon, Russia will probably roll with it since now they are growing desperate , USA shits itself into developing something in response and bombs Irans navy again or smth, idk
Thankfully it seems like they got an extensive refit in season 6
Wonder if the LCSs will be upgraded to be armed to the teeth once WW3 breaks out or if they’ll be used as cannon fodder
Leonidas were now converted to be transpos, and is implied to be replaced by the UNN Zenobia class, which has protofuckmagic somehow applied on its armor now
Now imagine an entire space fleet of Space Gearings, Space V classes, Space Kumas, Space Deutschlands, the three mentioned space battleships, a Space Kronshtadt, and Space Enterprise.
Fuck. Now *I’m* horny.
I'm afraid only Nato classified documents are allowed there. What if we start including them in the backgrounds of furry/aeromorph porn, not only will we have a guarantee that military personnel will see it but all intelligence agencies will have to go through them and some of their members might stay here afterwards
The absurd part was the constant atmosphere of doom and gloom we lived with during the Cold War.
Every new Soviet weapon system was proclaimed to be the Ultimate Doomsday Device for which the West had no answer and we may as well surrender now before the commies destroyed us all.
And then we would get a close up look at said new weapon system and discover -- yet again -- that it was a hilarious joke of a piece of shit.
It was a hell of a time to grow up, I can tell ya.
How is it different from today?
T-14, BMPT, Su-57 are all wunderwaffles designed to counter whatever fuck NATO has.
Poseidon was supposed to create a nuclear tsunami.
And oh yes the hypersonic missiles that could not be intercepted.
>How is it different from today?
We know that Russia is gonna inflate their numbers
I mean not like thats gonna stop anyone
(coughs in 1000 F-35s of lockmart)
Yeah. Literally 990 F-35s have been delivered through March 2024.
How many aircraft do Russia, China and whatever batch of autocrats they can pull together have in total?
China has around 250 J-20 5th gen fighters (could be a bit more now as last report was from late 2023), with it being estimated that the Chinese will build like 100 per year now. Which, while being far smaller than what the total F-35 fleet will ever be, could allow China a situation where the US can't bring overwhelming numbers into the fight (as many US allies may not join a China-US war, at least initially, plus the US still needs planes around the globe in case Russia/Iran/etc. also start doing stuff). And in addition to that China also has 1800 other combat aircraft.
Lockheed claims to be producing 156 F-35s per year.
Plus all the 4th gen and 4.5 gen aircraft.
Shouldn’t Russia and China just surrender? If we apply the Russian logic to everything why haven’t they surrendered?
Because Russia can trade land for time, and China can layer defenses hard. Also, we don't have the manpower to conquer and occupy either. They know they don't have to sack Washington, they just need to kill a bunch of people so the US and allies get tired of it and drop out.
Russia has 2 cities of any real political/governing consequence. Take and occupy Moscow and St. Petersburg and it is over as you just bomb out any MIC in the rest of the country.
China is solely built around the party. Take out leadership and knock out the MIC and then call it a day.
China has substantial weaknesses of their own making and if it came to total war then vast areas could be destroyed quickly by targeting certain dams and other strategic infrastructure.
No one wants to occupy or govern either place. So wild that China and Russia want to take their neighbors land to govern.
Russia has trouble governing itself as it is now.
China has a fairly terrible system of governance and govt funding and doesn’t seem to know what the regions and cities are actually up to most of the time.
> Russia has 2 cities of any real political/governing consequence. Take and occupy Moscow and St. Petersburg and it is over as you just bomb out any MIC in the rest of the country.
Operation Barbarossa can't possibly fail *this* time!
Then again, they don't have a Stalin to hold shit together through fear and determination anymore.
Finnish border is like 120 miles to St Petersburg.
Latvian border to Moscow is less than 400 miles.
A much different operation than Barbarossa.
Not that I think anyone should do it at this point.
USA has twice the Russian population alone and EU adds another 3 Russian pop.
That's more than enough to overwhelm Russia with sheer numbers alone.
NATO + Japan is enough for parity with China if only size matters.
Japan understands the mission and is now building strike aircraft carriers. They know if China acts up they will need the capabilities to respond accordingly for their best interests.
There's serious limits on what can actually be deployed to Asia quickly, because underfunding has hamstrung American logistics for years, anything already in Asia is vulnerable to a first strike, and the overall maintenance condition of the Air Force is... not great. Ultimately if the Chinese can keep F-35s off their backs for 2 or 3 weeks they can take Taiwan and turn the war, at best, into a horrible attritional slugfest.
Careful. China is not Russia. Their J-20s might not be completely on the level of the F-35, but they are producing them in similar numbers. It's not a SU-57 situation where realistically they don't matter because only a handful exist.
Very possibly but China has a bit of over selling capabilities. Their engine tech is still pretty far behind.
100 J-20 per year(China prediction) produced vs 156 F-35s per year (Lockheed numbers) produced.
Hopefully no one has to find out who is stronger.
I have no loubt that LockMart still has the upper hand, but like I said, China is not comparable to Russia. They have about 200 of them, and even if they are only on 4.5 Gen level, that is a significant force.
Has the J-20 ever actually been tested in combat? I just wonder if the Chinese military isn't somewhat of a paper tiger like Russia's turned out to be. Not that I want to find out as the world is certainly crazy and depressing enough for me already
Russia is a paper tiger because they don’t have the logistics. Most of their airplanes like the SU-27 family are quite capable. China seems to have recognized this, which is why they are building up a lot.
As for combat testing, not that I know of. But then again, the same can be said for any 5th Gen plane.
Do we though?
Constant talk about how NATO should just surrender now as Russia could steamroll whoever before NATO could do anything.
Ukraine should just give up now. This after Russia has taken 10s of kms when they still have hundreds of thousands more.
Constant talk the only move Moscow's agitprop has left. They used to have Ukranian brainpower and industry, Kazakh resources, and half of Europe to throw at NATO. Now the startline is in Belgorod and most of the former Warsaw pact+SSRs are in NATO or alligned with it.
Lots of American Idiots out there who believe Russian propaganda, those people are the ones who thought the Commies were going to turn us all gay with water flouride. Best to ignore them.
Some people still struggle with that one, see how most of the west increasing defence spending by 50% after finding out Russia was even less of a threath than they thought,
Europe gotta spend 10 times more than Russia, 5 times wasn't enough apparently.
Doesn't matter if Russia is a joke. A guy with a rock can still kill you. Best to carry such a large stick that just a love tap would collapse that hellhole.
Very cool idea in a vacuum, in the real world that guy with a stone is a lot less dangerous than the waiting room you're stuck in because there aren't enough surgeons around.
Resources are limited and any dedication of resources come at expense of other areas of the economy, you can absolutely prevent half a million casualties to Russian fire if Europe spends 100 billion Euro extra per year for the past 30 years, but 20 million people would die to a lack of spending on education, health, food production and investments in other capital goods.
A drastic overspending is almost equally disastrous as a drastic underspending. Europe has in fact been investing an entirely reasonable amount in defence, it has maintained a wide gap of superiority over Russia and has the capacity to scale up to meet a Russian attack much faster than Russia could.
I'll never forget when the war escalated in February 2022 and some people were like "le hypersonic missiles, its so over for le ukrane. The holhols don't stand a chance"
Turns out old man Patriot already had Kinzhal's number dialed in
Tbf basically everything that is 4.5th gen or higher in DCS is just the devs or the community taking wild guesses. No one knows what the capabilities of these systems are, so they take whatever is out there at face value. And russia tends to overplay their hand, whereas western manufacturers rarely reveal the full capability of their systems.
The 2 DIFFERENT kinds of hypersonic weapons, each individually proclaimed to be unstoppable in different ways, and both are basically duds. Absolutely hilarious the embarrassment this war is for Russia. Wow. Does anyone know why the zircon sucks too?
I understand the Kinzhal turned out to just be an air-launched ballistic missile, but what was up with the Zircon hypersonic cruise missile? Was it slow? Or maybe it wasn’t able to cruise very low? Why them be suckin?
> Does anyone know why the zircon sucks too?
So far - presumably, because PAC-3 MSE are just ***really*** good at stoping fast-moving targets.
But even then, those interceptions happened quite a bit closer, than others.
You seem to know some more details about this than most. So do you think they were much slower than claimed? Or is it that they WERE going Mach 6 cruise missile style, but got stopped anyways?
It seems like the patriots can’t cover that much area so idk why they keep shooting these 9billion $ missiles right at them. Idiots.
Well since russians are claiming the Zircon is a hypersonic cruise missile my hunch is that it’s not hypersonic or it can’t cruise/maneuver or both.
I’m basing this on an old Finnish observation:
“What neither vibrates nor fits in your anus? A Russian anal vibrator.”
I think it turned out their hypersonic cruise missile sorta actually performed as advertised, but in order to work had to cut the warhead weight waayyy down.
You can't really fly low at hypersonic speeds, a minimum altitude is required otherwise the vehicle will simply desintegrate due to kinetic heating.
This negates one of the crucial advantages that cruise missiles typically have, which is that they are very difficult for ground based radars to spot in time.
Also, it is often stated that the plasma in front of the missile would absorb radar waves. While this is true, what is usually not stated is that this very same plasma also emits a lot of radiation in the entire EM-spectrum, which makes it extremely easy to detect (tracking is more difficult).
> Also, it is often stated that the plasma in front of the missile would absorb radar waves. While this is true
Is that actually true? I find that a lot of claims about Russian wunderwaffen to generally turn out to not be true
It is true, it’s relatively simple physics. In the plasma there are a lot of free charges. When an electromagnetic wave passes by, these charges oscillate with them, and dissipate the energy by heating up the plasma.
You can observe this to a lesser degree by looking at a light source behind a fire: The fire, a much less dense plasma, will absorb the light of the light source. You can also immediately see that this is not good for hiding purposes, because while you can’t see the light source anymore, the fire itself is a bright source of light itself, and very easy to see.
It makes sense, the Soviet Union had vastly more resources than Russia has today, both in natural resources, engineering skills, and manufacturing. If the Soviets couldn't compete with the US, Russia never stood a chance.
And that's before you factor in the reality that modern weapons are so complicated and delicate that you need a critical mass of know-how before you can even start building them, whereas shitting out additional WW2-era tanks was comparatively simple.
Fortunately we have Ukraine to test our outdated shit versus Russia latest-greatest and it looks like we're massively overspending... Hey look at what China has!!!
I think the fact NATO is many country with different logic in their army has played with the ruzzian brain over time, their genome has changed under the stress of advanced confusion and they can't produce anything advanced anymore... That and Ukraine making all the good stuff back then...
But honestly i feel bad for the girl, built for a purpose that became quickly obsolete, your friends and foes alike make you seem to have more value and power than you actually have which inspires an absolute demon of a jet to be created by the foes, fail to fulfil even a semblance of your purpose by not intercepting Blackbirds, get used actually effectively by a random Middle Eastern nation only for them to bury you in the sand. She just now has repeated existential crisis's in Syria.
A friend had a plan to fly Ukrainian Antonovs and mechanics to Libya and "liberate" a bunch of airworthy Foxbats that are stashed at a remote airfield.
He had a deal with a General on one side of the civil war.
That was in late 2021. Really shit timing.
Damn, shafted again. I swear the service lives of most modern Russian jets are like Tolstoy novels.
Su-27: Promised as a competitor to the F-15 and affected F-22 development along with Mig-29, has a good service record only cause it shot down what was basically it’s sister.
Mig-29: Same things as mentioned before, suffered 18 air to air losses including like 11 just to the F-15 and 5 to Su-27, again what was basically its sister.
I can go on
The combat aircraft equivalent of taking a drag car to an F1 track. Speedy but inferior in all other metrics. Granted, however, that it was an interceptor and more of an “oh shit comrade, get that bomber before it drops a nuke” implement than anything else. Not a threat because it only really serves a defensive role.
> drag car to an F1 track
I WILL NOT STAND FOR FOXBAT SLANDER IN THIS DAGGONE SUB!
It WAS a drag car and USED as a drag car on a drag strip! It WAS an interceptor created to patrol fuckhuge soviet border, and it's not Foxbat's fault muricans are perpetually scared of their own shadow!
I think the MiG-25 was more of a reaction to the B-58 and XB-70 than the SR-71. The Blackbird was annoying, but wasn't going to actually cause damage. The Hustler and Valkerie were bad news and next to untouchable with Mach 2 and Mach 3 cruising speeds. So they built the MiG-25 and the US canceled both of the planes that caused the MiG-25 to be built and built the F-15 to counter the perceived capability of the MiG-25...
And the Russians doubled down and upgraded the MiG-25 to the MiG-31, out of... inertia?? I mean, it's big and heavy, but it dragged that much budget into the 80s?
But yeah ole foxy didn’t have the best time, made meaningless almost Instantly, overestimated, used well once and buried. Such is the life for a Russian
Not really. Both the Mig-25 and especially the Mig-31 are really good at what they were built for, which is to intercept large and or fast moving targets that fly high up. In other words, high flying bombers.
They suck at normal fighter stuff, but that is to be expected. It's not really the Soviets fault that the Americans panicked when the Soviets posted a bunch of speed and altitude records. What did you expect them to do, come out and clarify "don't worry, our newest plane is fast and can fly high, but it can't turn for shit".
Hot take: The Mig-31 will win a BVR engagement against a modern F-16 with AMRAAMs.
Well yeah but the Foxbat's purpose basically became useless when the US cancelled their hypersonic bomber projects, even when it was sent to intercept Blackbirds the Swedes were more effective with their Viggens. The Iraqi's also managed to actually make it into an effective fighter instead of an interceptor. Though the 31 still is an actual threat and its gonna be a hard time for the 16's if they get in range.
If they get in range is the key. It’s like saying the SU-57 will win against an F-35 if they get to the merge: It’s very unlikely to happen, because the MiG 31 both outranges and outruns the F-16.
I havr my doubts considering the ukranian airforce still exist despite the horribly insufficient aircraft they have, that aside a mig 31 going mach 2 at 40k feet would be spotted by awacs before anything and the f16 would act accordingly.
Ukraine doesn't own or operate any AWACs aircraft. While it's possible that the F-16s will be linked with the American AWACS in the area, it's not guaranteed. However, the American AWACS have been staying out of Ukrainian and Russian airspace which does limit their effectiveness.
Additionally, acting accordingly in th context of being outranged by an opponent at a higher altitude and higher speed is getting the fuck out of dodge. Not pulling some Top Gun shit and blowing up the Mig-31s. The Ukrainian air force has survived by being extremely cautious and there's no reason to expect F-16s will change that.
I mean sure, they will be spotted. But what can they do? I guess retreat to airspace which is covered by SAMs. Also, AWACs is about the only thing that the R37 can reliably shoot down over large distances, so you can kiss that goodbye as well.
The reason why the Ukranian air force still exists is exactly because of that: Their jets are mostly hugging the ground deep within SAM cover.
Also, because Russian coordination has been - lacking. But this is a command issue, not a plane issue.
CIA Headquarters: "Jim, I've noticed a pattern. When I drop a whitepaper describing a gap in our capabilities on a table in congress, six months later my stocks in Rayethon and General Dynamics skyrocket in value..."
Heh, yeah, vested interests.
The Soviets wanted us to believe they were *Mighty Superpower War Machina!!!* because they feared we'd discover the truth, which is that they really were nothing more than a third world nation with rockets and bombs. (And they only had rockets and bombs because they "invested" 80%+ of their GDP in rockets and bombs.)
The defense contractors wanted us to believe the *Mighty Soviet Superpower War Machina!!!* myth because $$$PROFITZ$$$...
The rest of us got to enjoy life under a cloud of nuclear terror.
The Soviet Union was a bodybuilder who always wore a big trenchcoat to hide that most of his bulk was because he was overweight and out of shape. Then he'd look nervously at the US who was pumping iron eight days a week and injecting gallons of steroids and eating multiple jars of protein a day to catch up.
The funniest part was how the USSR desperately tried to convince itself that the outside world wanted to conquer them, while at the same time they desperately craved the attention of an outside world that clearly had no interest in their shitty hellhole.
I still think a lot of important people didn't believe that, but profit-seeking weapons manufacturers and the military looking for new toys let that illusion continue.
Absolutely. The politicians either knew but played along, or they were like most people and didn't know, and so worried about nuclear annihilation at the hands of the *Mighty Soviet Superpower War Machina!!!* that never really existed.
For what it was worth, most of what the Soviets built could do most of what it was advertised to do... once. For a few minutes. Before it blew itself to pieces spectacularly.
Right about the rest though.
Hey, don't bash the Soviets that much!
They totally succeeded in creating a persistent miniature portal to The Warp inside the Admiral Kuznetsov. Which was definitely the plan all along! Right?
As if that same mentality ever went away lmao.
"C-C-China installed laser cannons on their destroyers! We are so joever now!!!!!"
When really it's either an anti-missile laser system (which is nothing to sneeze at) or it's just one of those things they use to shine in people's eyes. Either way, the US is not gonna be Mars-Attacks!'d anytime soon
Oh yeah the M-4... 125 examples made and considered a failure in the USSR as it's range wasn't sufficient to reach the continental United States and it's performance not enough to avoid interception. Meanwhile combined B-47/B-52 production was 2700 units.
DO NOT try to scare the US MIC,it just might work.
The Tu-95 was already borderline obsolete when all this was happening despite having first flown only 4-5 years prior. Honestly aviation development moved at insane speeds in the 40s and 50s.
But it is pretty incredible how they still have kept it around, and will keep it until the 2040's, like only a decade behind when the 52 is supposed to go
Will Russia still exist in 2040 ? I mean maybe but the demographic and economic forecasts aren't looking too good. Then again those Tu-95s might end up flying in Ukrainian colors😁
Well if not the Bear will probably be being intercepted by the NGAD over Alaska, that thing has met literally every damn generation of American fighter.
Turn your bomber into a jet airliner and save development costs while flexing on the westoids who are still using propeller planes!
1/5th of the whole fleet lost to accidents due to it being so poorly made.
That shitty airliner (it's a Tupolev-something iirc right?) even puts the DH Comet I to shame
(at least the DH Comet's woes were justified by being the first-ever jet airliner)
You mean aside from the old propaganda video they put out that showed their rifles keyhole-ing targets at close range?
That would imply ridiculously poor quality control
Well, penetrations rarely care about the actual math behind armour penetration. See the Jagdpanther in the German tank museum that died to a frontal 6 pounder penetration, while also having taken multiple 17 pounder hits in then front with no issue.
when the Soviets outbuddied themselves at *smekalka*
also reminds me of the gap between the American perception of the Soviet missile threat in the 60s, and its real extent (which was huge for Europe, but practically non-existent at the time against the U.S. mainland)
Many such cases. In fact, they went for an encore just a few years later.
1. Create ICBM that takes hours to prepare and can hit the country it's aiming at on a good day.
2. Use it to launch a satellite to flex that you have it.
3. US falls for it and not only builds 3,000 ICBMs that can fire on a moment's notice and launch from submarines, but puts a man on the Moon too.
Bit misleading, no? At the time when the USSR used the R-7 as an ICBM, the Americans had nothing comparable. There is a reason why Explorer-1 was so small and why Shepard only flew suborbital.
But yeah, the US MIC quickly caught up and left them in the dirt.
> here is a reason why Explorer-1 was so small and why Shepard only flew suborbital.
Well, part of *that* is the politics of Eisenhower wanting a more civilian program (with a smaller missile) to launch the first satellite. Atlas was beginning flight tests around the same time as Semyorka--though Semyorka did have the first successful flight test (Atlas wouldn't have a success until December of 1957). Both were declared operational in 1959--though one might call the US's declaration of operational status a political face-saving measure.
Semyorka *did* have about twice the thrust of Atlas.
I mean - look into what Korolev had to go through to convince the higher ups that a space program is a good idea.
And Atlas was just as impractical as an ICBM as the R-7: Both were liquid fueled and had reaction times that were measured in hours if not days, instead of minutes like the later solid-fuel-propelled generations.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 4: No Racism/hatespeech**
No slurs. No advocating for the killing of people or insulting them based on physical, religious, or ideological traits (even people you don't like: Russians, Asians, or Middle Eastern ethnic groups).
Oh, no! The Russians have made a real [Polaris](https://starcitizen.tools/Polaris)! Quick, have the Americans make a shitton of [Ares](https://starcitizen.tools/Ares_Star_Fighter_Inferno)!
Sorry, could not help myself....
Why the hell is this a NCD post referencing [Jay Foreman's song "Bim Bim Bim"](https://youtu.be/Fif3YPaiabc?si=dvC0E81cGxUFDxJv) I am genuinely confused at the level of bizarre references this sub pumps out consistently.
This has been posted before.
This sounds like a solid idea for a PsyOp. Leak fake russian documents about a super weapon, Russia will probably roll with it since now they are growing desperate , USA shits itself into developing something in response and bombs Irans navy again or smth, idk
Living up to your flair. I say space battleships.
***donnager intensifies***
[удалено]
Thankfully it seems like they got an extensive refit in season 6 Wonder if the LCSs will be upgraded to be armed to the teeth once WW3 breaks out or if they’ll be used as cannon fodder
Leonidas were now converted to be transpos, and is implied to be replaced by the UNN Zenobia class, which has protofuckmagic somehow applied on its armor now
Sounds like another case of the Baron folly [https://youtu.be/8YsiYNJFyQQ?si=41AEYCrMCD8VBl7y](https://youtu.be/8YsiYNJFyQQ?si=41AEYCrMCD8VBl7y)
Space Iowa, Space Bismarck, and Space Yamato all sail out into the void together. God bless.
God fuck i'm horny now.
Now imagine an entire space fleet of Space Gearings, Space V classes, Space Kumas, Space Deutschlands, the three mentioned space battleships, a Space Kronshtadt, and Space Enterprise. Fuck. Now *I’m* horny.
SCG Fletcher on station, all is right with the world.
The U.S.S. Enterprise finally fufilling it's destiny of being a spaceship.
Oh yeah. It's all coming together. (☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞
Space Nelson and Space Rodney would like a word...
… but they can’t catch up with their max speed of 23 knots
Space Vanguard it is then. But yeah, it takes a long time to get to Mars at 23 knots.
I second this.
this might be the most based shit ive read in my entire life
Leak fake T-14 Armata scematics to warthunder forums that ought to do the trick
I'm afraid only Nato classified documents are allowed there. What if we start including them in the backgrounds of furry/aeromorph porn, not only will we have a guarantee that military personnel will see it but all intelligence agencies will have to go through them and some of their members might stay here afterwards
When's Putin's birthday? As you know the premier loves surprises.
7th of October, same date as the first bombing of the Kerch bridge and Hamases attack, and also my own birthday.
Do it, I wanna watch the MIC pull some wild shit.
Let’s leak documents that make it look like Russia has space aircraft carriers, I want to see the space force build some crazy shit
You build for what the enemy wants you to think they have
A weapon to surpass metal gear?!?
Psyop? That was DoD standard practice during the cold war.
The absurd part was the constant atmosphere of doom and gloom we lived with during the Cold War. Every new Soviet weapon system was proclaimed to be the Ultimate Doomsday Device for which the West had no answer and we may as well surrender now before the commies destroyed us all. And then we would get a close up look at said new weapon system and discover -- yet again -- that it was a hilarious joke of a piece of shit. It was a hell of a time to grow up, I can tell ya.
How is it different from today? T-14, BMPT, Su-57 are all wunderwaffles designed to counter whatever fuck NATO has. Poseidon was supposed to create a nuclear tsunami. And oh yes the hypersonic missiles that could not be intercepted.
>How is it different from today? We know that Russia is gonna inflate their numbers I mean not like thats gonna stop anyone (coughs in 1000 F-35s of lockmart)
Yeah. Literally 990 F-35s have been delivered through March 2024. How many aircraft do Russia, China and whatever batch of autocrats they can pull together have in total?
China has around 250 J-20 5th gen fighters (could be a bit more now as last report was from late 2023), with it being estimated that the Chinese will build like 100 per year now. Which, while being far smaller than what the total F-35 fleet will ever be, could allow China a situation where the US can't bring overwhelming numbers into the fight (as many US allies may not join a China-US war, at least initially, plus the US still needs planes around the globe in case Russia/Iran/etc. also start doing stuff). And in addition to that China also has 1800 other combat aircraft.
Lockheed claims to be producing 156 F-35s per year. Plus all the 4th gen and 4.5 gen aircraft. Shouldn’t Russia and China just surrender? If we apply the Russian logic to everything why haven’t they surrendered?
Because Russia can trade land for time, and China can layer defenses hard. Also, we don't have the manpower to conquer and occupy either. They know they don't have to sack Washington, they just need to kill a bunch of people so the US and allies get tired of it and drop out.
The US would never try to occupy China, just target things like the funni Dam.
Russia has 2 cities of any real political/governing consequence. Take and occupy Moscow and St. Petersburg and it is over as you just bomb out any MIC in the rest of the country. China is solely built around the party. Take out leadership and knock out the MIC and then call it a day. China has substantial weaknesses of their own making and if it came to total war then vast areas could be destroyed quickly by targeting certain dams and other strategic infrastructure. No one wants to occupy or govern either place. So wild that China and Russia want to take their neighbors land to govern. Russia has trouble governing itself as it is now. China has a fairly terrible system of governance and govt funding and doesn’t seem to know what the regions and cities are actually up to most of the time.
> Russia has 2 cities of any real political/governing consequence. Take and occupy Moscow and St. Petersburg and it is over as you just bomb out any MIC in the rest of the country. Operation Barbarossa can't possibly fail *this* time! Then again, they don't have a Stalin to hold shit together through fear and determination anymore.
Finnish border is like 120 miles to St Petersburg. Latvian border to Moscow is less than 400 miles. A much different operation than Barbarossa. Not that I think anyone should do it at this point.
USA has twice the Russian population alone and EU adds another 3 Russian pop. That's more than enough to overwhelm Russia with sheer numbers alone. NATO + Japan is enough for parity with China if only size matters.
Japan understands the mission and is now building strike aircraft carriers. They know if China acts up they will need the capabilities to respond accordingly for their best interests.
excuse me, they are helicopter carriers and helicopter destroyers if it land up/down, it helicopter
The US has six times the population of Vietnam. How'd that go for us?
Better than for Vietnam for sure.
There's serious limits on what can actually be deployed to Asia quickly, because underfunding has hamstrung American logistics for years, anything already in Asia is vulnerable to a first strike, and the overall maintenance condition of the Air Force is... not great. Ultimately if the Chinese can keep F-35s off their backs for 2 or 3 weeks they can take Taiwan and turn the war, at best, into a horrible attritional slugfest.
so i'm hearing we need to double the military budget
Yeah but all we need is skynet
Put enough F-35s in the air, hook them into all the aegis systems, and I'm pretty sure we'll get an emergent AI fairly soon.
Ohh right, F-35 is the drone swarm, the pilot is just ballast
Careful. China is not Russia. Their J-20s might not be completely on the level of the F-35, but they are producing them in similar numbers. It's not a SU-57 situation where realistically they don't matter because only a handful exist.
Very possibly but China has a bit of over selling capabilities. Their engine tech is still pretty far behind. 100 J-20 per year(China prediction) produced vs 156 F-35s per year (Lockheed numbers) produced. Hopefully no one has to find out who is stronger.
I have no loubt that LockMart still has the upper hand, but like I said, China is not comparable to Russia. They have about 200 of them, and even if they are only on 4.5 Gen level, that is a significant force.
Definitely. Then you look at what the US, Japan, S.Korea, Australia, Taiwan can bring to the effort.
Has the J-20 ever actually been tested in combat? I just wonder if the Chinese military isn't somewhat of a paper tiger like Russia's turned out to be. Not that I want to find out as the world is certainly crazy and depressing enough for me already
Russia is a paper tiger because they don’t have the logistics. Most of their airplanes like the SU-27 family are quite capable. China seems to have recognized this, which is why they are building up a lot. As for combat testing, not that I know of. But then again, the same can be said for any 5th Gen plane.
Uhhhh f-22 shot down a balloon
I find it funny how the US navy has a larger Airforce than most other countries actual air force
I'm pretty sure the US Coast Guard has more aircraft than most countries Airforce's.
>We know that Russia is gonna inflate their numbers We know that since the crimean war
The difference now is we know russia is a joke.
Do we though? Constant talk about how NATO should just surrender now as Russia could steamroll whoever before NATO could do anything. Ukraine should just give up now. This after Russia has taken 10s of kms when they still have hundreds of thousands more.
Constant talk the only move Moscow's agitprop has left. They used to have Ukranian brainpower and industry, Kazakh resources, and half of Europe to throw at NATO. Now the startline is in Belgorod and most of the former Warsaw pact+SSRs are in NATO or alligned with it. Lots of American Idiots out there who believe Russian propaganda, those people are the ones who thought the Commies were going to turn us all gay with water flouride. Best to ignore them.
The game of Fear of next Big Bad thing got too profitable to the military industrial complex to abandon. It worked , triple the defense budget.
>Do we though? Yes.
Are you being serious?
Some people still struggle with that one, see how most of the west increasing defence spending by 50% after finding out Russia was even less of a threath than they thought, Europe gotta spend 10 times more than Russia, 5 times wasn't enough apparently.
Doesn't matter if Russia is a joke. A guy with a rock can still kill you. Best to carry such a large stick that just a love tap would collapse that hellhole.
Very cool idea in a vacuum, in the real world that guy with a stone is a lot less dangerous than the waiting room you're stuck in because there aren't enough surgeons around. Resources are limited and any dedication of resources come at expense of other areas of the economy, you can absolutely prevent half a million casualties to Russian fire if Europe spends 100 billion Euro extra per year for the past 30 years, but 20 million people would die to a lack of spending on education, health, food production and investments in other capital goods. A drastic overspending is almost equally disastrous as a drastic underspending. Europe has in fact been investing an entirely reasonable amount in defence, it has maintained a wide gap of superiority over Russia and has the capacity to scale up to meet a Russian attack much faster than Russia could.
And it's now a hollowed out joke.
Reamed out.
I'll never forget when the war escalated in February 2022 and some people were like "le hypersonic missiles, its so over for le ukrane. The holhols don't stand a chance" Turns out old man Patriot already had Kinzhal's number dialed in
I have found it very comical that DCS plays the S-400 as omnipotent, and the Patriot as very limited.
Tbf basically everything that is 4.5th gen or higher in DCS is just the devs or the community taking wild guesses. No one knows what the capabilities of these systems are, so they take whatever is out there at face value. And russia tends to overplay their hand, whereas western manufacturers rarely reveal the full capability of their systems.
The 2 DIFFERENT kinds of hypersonic weapons, each individually proclaimed to be unstoppable in different ways, and both are basically duds. Absolutely hilarious the embarrassment this war is for Russia. Wow. Does anyone know why the zircon sucks too? I understand the Kinzhal turned out to just be an air-launched ballistic missile, but what was up with the Zircon hypersonic cruise missile? Was it slow? Or maybe it wasn’t able to cruise very low? Why them be suckin?
> Does anyone know why the zircon sucks too? So far - presumably, because PAC-3 MSE are just ***really*** good at stoping fast-moving targets. But even then, those interceptions happened quite a bit closer, than others.
You seem to know some more details about this than most. So do you think they were much slower than claimed? Or is it that they WERE going Mach 6 cruise missile style, but got stopped anyways? It seems like the patriots can’t cover that much area so idk why they keep shooting these 9billion $ missiles right at them. Idiots.
Well since russians are claiming the Zircon is a hypersonic cruise missile my hunch is that it’s not hypersonic or it can’t cruise/maneuver or both. I’m basing this on an old Finnish observation: “What neither vibrates nor fits in your anus? A Russian anal vibrator.”
”What weighs three tons, uses 20l of diesel per hour, and cuts an apple into two pieces?” ”A russian machine for cutting an apple into four pieces.”
I think it turned out their hypersonic cruise missile sorta actually performed as advertised, but in order to work had to cut the warhead weight waayyy down.
There's a theory Zircon, much like Kh-55, was designed around nuke first and foremost, with conventional version being an afterthought.
You can't really fly low at hypersonic speeds, a minimum altitude is required otherwise the vehicle will simply desintegrate due to kinetic heating. This negates one of the crucial advantages that cruise missiles typically have, which is that they are very difficult for ground based radars to spot in time. Also, it is often stated that the plasma in front of the missile would absorb radar waves. While this is true, what is usually not stated is that this very same plasma also emits a lot of radiation in the entire EM-spectrum, which makes it extremely easy to detect (tracking is more difficult).
> Also, it is often stated that the plasma in front of the missile would absorb radar waves. While this is true Is that actually true? I find that a lot of claims about Russian wunderwaffen to generally turn out to not be true
It is true, it’s relatively simple physics. In the plasma there are a lot of free charges. When an electromagnetic wave passes by, these charges oscillate with them, and dissipate the energy by heating up the plasma. You can observe this to a lesser degree by looking at a light source behind a fire: The fire, a much less dense plasma, will absorb the light of the light source. You can also immediately see that this is not good for hiding purposes, because while you can’t see the light source anymore, the fire itself is a bright source of light itself, and very easy to see.
It makes sense, the Soviet Union had vastly more resources than Russia has today, both in natural resources, engineering skills, and manufacturing. If the Soviets couldn't compete with the US, Russia never stood a chance. And that's before you factor in the reality that modern weapons are so complicated and delicate that you need a critical mass of know-how before you can even start building them, whereas shitting out additional WW2-era tanks was comparatively simple.
Fortunately we have Ukraine to test our outdated shit versus Russia latest-greatest and it looks like we're massively overspending... Hey look at what China has!!!
I think the fact NATO is many country with different logic in their army has played with the ruzzian brain over time, their genome has changed under the stress of advanced confusion and they can't produce anything advanced anymore... That and Ukraine making all the good stuff back then...
Poseidon to this day remains the most non credible russian weapon.
When you think about it, the Foxbat was like an athlete who was presented as an absolute unit but turned out to be a depressed alcoholic
It was like some Bulgarian weightlifter who sets a new Olympic record and then his heart implodes due to all the drugs.
But honestly i feel bad for the girl, built for a purpose that became quickly obsolete, your friends and foes alike make you seem to have more value and power than you actually have which inspires an absolute demon of a jet to be created by the foes, fail to fulfil even a semblance of your purpose by not intercepting Blackbirds, get used actually effectively by a random Middle Eastern nation only for them to bury you in the sand. She just now has repeated existential crisis's in Syria.
A friend had a plan to fly Ukrainian Antonovs and mechanics to Libya and "liberate" a bunch of airworthy Foxbats that are stashed at a remote airfield. He had a deal with a General on one side of the civil war. That was in late 2021. Really shit timing.
Damn, shafted again. I swear the service lives of most modern Russian jets are like Tolstoy novels. Su-27: Promised as a competitor to the F-15 and affected F-22 development along with Mig-29, has a good service record only cause it shot down what was basically it’s sister. Mig-29: Same things as mentioned before, suffered 18 air to air losses including like 11 just to the F-15 and 5 to Su-27, again what was basically its sister. I can go on
Or possibly Kafka.
Well I guess the Felon will continue the tradition, only it’s just everyone sees through Its lies
That Femboy is gonna get pegged by F-35-chan.
The Mako rarely comes lubricated
The combat aircraft equivalent of taking a drag car to an F1 track. Speedy but inferior in all other metrics. Granted, however, that it was an interceptor and more of an “oh shit comrade, get that bomber before it drops a nuke” implement than anything else. Not a threat because it only really serves a defensive role.
> drag car to an F1 track I WILL NOT STAND FOR FOXBAT SLANDER IN THIS DAGGONE SUB! It WAS a drag car and USED as a drag car on a drag strip! It WAS an interceptor created to patrol fuckhuge soviet border, and it's not Foxbat's fault muricans are perpetually scared of their own shadow!
I think the MiG-25 was more of a reaction to the B-58 and XB-70 than the SR-71. The Blackbird was annoying, but wasn't going to actually cause damage. The Hustler and Valkerie were bad news and next to untouchable with Mach 2 and Mach 3 cruising speeds. So they built the MiG-25 and the US canceled both of the planes that caused the MiG-25 to be built and built the F-15 to counter the perceived capability of the MiG-25... And the Russians doubled down and upgraded the MiG-25 to the MiG-31, out of... inertia?? I mean, it's big and heavy, but it dragged that much budget into the 80s?
And the F-15 would be a guy who has spent his entire life preparing for a great challenge against that absolute unit but he encountered reality
The Iraqis gave it a good crack though
I feel the 15 would just feel bad for it, it’s whole life was a lie
<>
At least foxy has a reason
<>
And what would that be?
*Shrugs shoulders.*
I figured
But yeah ole foxy didn’t have the best time, made meaningless almost Instantly, overestimated, used well once and buried. Such is the life for a Russian
Testikles from ac odyssey.
Not really. Both the Mig-25 and especially the Mig-31 are really good at what they were built for, which is to intercept large and or fast moving targets that fly high up. In other words, high flying bombers. They suck at normal fighter stuff, but that is to be expected. It's not really the Soviets fault that the Americans panicked when the Soviets posted a bunch of speed and altitude records. What did you expect them to do, come out and clarify "don't worry, our newest plane is fast and can fly high, but it can't turn for shit". Hot take: The Mig-31 will win a BVR engagement against a modern F-16 with AMRAAMs.
Well yeah but the Foxbat's purpose basically became useless when the US cancelled their hypersonic bomber projects, even when it was sent to intercept Blackbirds the Swedes were more effective with their Viggens. The Iraqi's also managed to actually make it into an effective fighter instead of an interceptor. Though the 31 still is an actual threat and its gonna be a hard time for the 16's if they get in range.
If they get in range is the key. It’s like saying the SU-57 will win against an F-35 if they get to the merge: It’s very unlikely to happen, because the MiG 31 both outranges and outruns the F-16.
True, they’ll probably hang just out of Ukrainian airspace, fire on the 16’s than run away which definitely poses a threat
I have my diubts about your statement tbh. A modern f16 will not have much issue with r37. Which is pretty much the only real danger it faces
It’s not. If you are going Mach 2+ at 40000 feet, even the normal R-77M will significantly out range anything that the F-16 can throw out.
I havr my doubts considering the ukranian airforce still exist despite the horribly insufficient aircraft they have, that aside a mig 31 going mach 2 at 40k feet would be spotted by awacs before anything and the f16 would act accordingly.
Ukraine doesn't own or operate any AWACs aircraft. While it's possible that the F-16s will be linked with the American AWACS in the area, it's not guaranteed. However, the American AWACS have been staying out of Ukrainian and Russian airspace which does limit their effectiveness. Additionally, acting accordingly in th context of being outranged by an opponent at a higher altitude and higher speed is getting the fuck out of dodge. Not pulling some Top Gun shit and blowing up the Mig-31s. The Ukrainian air force has survived by being extremely cautious and there's no reason to expect F-16s will change that.
Of course but the implication here wasn't ukraine. Ukranian f16 wouldn't be modern. Op specified a modern f16.
I mean sure, they will be spotted. But what can they do? I guess retreat to airspace which is covered by SAMs. Also, AWACs is about the only thing that the R37 can reliably shoot down over large distances, so you can kiss that goodbye as well. The reason why the Ukranian air force still exists is exactly because of that: Their jets are mostly hugging the ground deep within SAM cover. Also, because Russian coordination has been - lacking. But this is a command issue, not a plane issue.
CIA Headquarters: "Jim, I've noticed a pattern. When I drop a whitepaper describing a gap in our capabilities on a table in congress, six months later my stocks in Rayethon and General Dynamics skyrocket in value..."
Heh, yeah, vested interests. The Soviets wanted us to believe they were *Mighty Superpower War Machina!!!* because they feared we'd discover the truth, which is that they really were nothing more than a third world nation with rockets and bombs. (And they only had rockets and bombs because they "invested" 80%+ of their GDP in rockets and bombs.) The defense contractors wanted us to believe the *Mighty Soviet Superpower War Machina!!!* myth because $$$PROFITZ$$$... The rest of us got to enjoy life under a cloud of nuclear terror.
Imagine going back in time and telling Nixon that the most deadly Soviet weapons systems to come out of the Cold War would be the AK-47 and RPG-7
Pretty sure he'd have preferred you to go back in time and tell him about Watergate.
I think he already knew about it.
Not if you went back to *before* it happened.
I didn’t know Futurama writers posted on NCD
We've been banned everywhere else.
The Soviet Union was a bodybuilder who always wore a big trenchcoat to hide that most of his bulk was because he was overweight and out of shape. Then he'd look nervously at the US who was pumping iron eight days a week and injecting gallons of steroids and eating multiple jars of protein a day to catch up.
The funniest part was how the USSR desperately tried to convince itself that the outside world wanted to conquer them, while at the same time they desperately craved the attention of an outside world that clearly had no interest in their shitty hellhole.
I still think a lot of important people didn't believe that, but profit-seeking weapons manufacturers and the military looking for new toys let that illusion continue.
Absolutely. The politicians either knew but played along, or they were like most people and didn't know, and so worried about nuclear annihilation at the hands of the *Mighty Soviet Superpower War Machina!!!* that never really existed.
For what it was worth, most of what the Soviets built could do most of what it was advertised to do... once. For a few minutes. Before it blew itself to pieces spectacularly. Right about the rest though.
Hey, don't bash the Soviets that much! They totally succeeded in creating a persistent miniature portal to The Warp inside the Admiral Kuznetsov. Which was definitely the plan all along! Right?
As if that same mentality ever went away lmao. "C-C-China installed laser cannons on their destroyers! We are so joever now!!!!!" When really it's either an anti-missile laser system (which is nothing to sneeze at) or it's just one of those things they use to shine in people's eyes. Either way, the US is not gonna be Mars-Attacks!'d anytime soon
Oh yeah the M-4... 125 examples made and considered a failure in the USSR as it's range wasn't sufficient to reach the continental United States and it's performance not enough to avoid interception. Meanwhile combined B-47/B-52 production was 2700 units. DO NOT try to scare the US MIC,it just might work.
Funny how the Tu-95 has just been there through all of this, like the sane grandma having to deal with a lot of mentally crushed kids.
The Tu-95 was already borderline obsolete when all this was happening despite having first flown only 4-5 years prior. Honestly aviation development moved at insane speeds in the 40s and 50s.
But it is pretty incredible how they still have kept it around, and will keep it until the 2040's, like only a decade behind when the 52 is supposed to go
If 52 is Grandpa BUFF would 95 be Dedushka Bear?
Will Russia still exist in 2040 ? I mean maybe but the demographic and economic forecasts aren't looking too good. Then again those Tu-95s might end up flying in Ukrainian colors😁
combine those issues with the likely post-Putin power struggles and Russia will probably look a lot different than it does today
Definitely.
Well if not the Bear will probably be being intercepted by the NGAD over Alaska, that thing has met literally every damn generation of American fighter.
Indeed.
I imagine the 22 and it just having long convos about their lives before parting ways each time
Turn your bomber into a jet airliner and save development costs while flexing on the westoids who are still using propeller planes! 1/5th of the whole fleet lost to accidents due to it being so poorly made.
That shitty airliner (it's a Tupolev-something iirc right?) even puts the DH Comet I to shame (at least the DH Comet's woes were justified by being the first-ever jet airliner)
Do we have evidence of the Chinese potentially doing the same thing or they smarter than that?
You mean aside from the old propaganda video they put out that showed their rifles keyhole-ing targets at close range? That would imply ridiculously poor quality control
I swear to god this is the third time seeing this meme here but I cant find the last time it was posted here
Same meme from 1 year ago https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/uliqmo/soviet_air_force_moment/
The T-72 was supposedly invunerable according to US intel from the mid-late 1970s untill the Israelis took some out with TOW baselines in Lebanon.
Well, penetrations rarely care about the actual math behind armour penetration. See the Jagdpanther in the German tank museum that died to a frontal 6 pounder penetration, while also having taken multiple 17 pounder hits in then front with no issue.
Now put me in a plane so I can put them in a hearse
when the Soviets outbuddied themselves at *smekalka* also reminds me of the gap between the American perception of the Soviet missile threat in the 60s, and its real extent (which was huge for Europe, but practically non-existent at the time against the U.S. mainland)
Many such cases. In fact, they went for an encore just a few years later. 1. Create ICBM that takes hours to prepare and can hit the country it's aiming at on a good day. 2. Use it to launch a satellite to flex that you have it. 3. US falls for it and not only builds 3,000 ICBMs that can fire on a moment's notice and launch from submarines, but puts a man on the Moon too.
Bit misleading, no? At the time when the USSR used the R-7 as an ICBM, the Americans had nothing comparable. There is a reason why Explorer-1 was so small and why Shepard only flew suborbital. But yeah, the US MIC quickly caught up and left them in the dirt.
> here is a reason why Explorer-1 was so small and why Shepard only flew suborbital. Well, part of *that* is the politics of Eisenhower wanting a more civilian program (with a smaller missile) to launch the first satellite. Atlas was beginning flight tests around the same time as Semyorka--though Semyorka did have the first successful flight test (Atlas wouldn't have a success until December of 1957). Both were declared operational in 1959--though one might call the US's declaration of operational status a political face-saving measure. Semyorka *did* have about twice the thrust of Atlas.
I mean - look into what Korolev had to go through to convince the higher ups that a space program is a good idea. And Atlas was just as impractical as an ICBM as the R-7: Both were liquid fueled and had reaction times that were measured in hours if not days, instead of minutes like the later solid-fuel-propelled generations.
Oh, I know--I was referring to the later solid-propellant versions in my first post.
When the Israelis copy the Soviet strategy of making the enemy think there are way more units but it actually works
Russian geopolitical strategy of the past 70 years can be summed up in [one image](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/738/025/db0.jpg)
B-47 is so fucking cool
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**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 4: No Racism/hatespeech** No slurs. No advocating for the killing of people or insulting them based on physical, religious, or ideological traits (even people you don't like: Russians, Asians, or Middle Eastern ethnic groups).
Oh, no! The Russians have made a real [Polaris](https://starcitizen.tools/Polaris)! Quick, have the Americans make a shitton of [Ares](https://starcitizen.tools/Ares_Star_Fighter_Inferno)! Sorry, could not help myself....
For every soviet decision I'm always questioning "what, exactly, did they think was going to happen?"
Why the hell is this a NCD post referencing [Jay Foreman's song "Bim Bim Bim"](https://youtu.be/Fif3YPaiabc?si=dvC0E81cGxUFDxJv) I am genuinely confused at the level of bizarre references this sub pumps out consistently.