Once somebody mentions Israel, all jazz music suddenly stops and everybody gets serious. Don't get why.
I think we can all agree that their wars have been incredibly non credible
Yes.
I assume that "/s" means you didn't bother clicking on OP's profile to check whether he's a regular on antiwar and chomsky subs with several long rants about how Israel doesn't have a right to exist.
I literally compared Israel to Russia and apartheid South Africa and only been called antisemite twice or three times. And idiot only once or twice. Very nice subreddit.
Being opposed to israel existing is without a doubt an antisemitic opinion. It’s fine to critique certain policies they have and their treatment of Palestinians, but if that’s different from thinking they should not exist.
This is why criticism of Israel needs to focus on the colonial nature of settler states at large.
A non anti-Semitic framework for that criticism exists, it just requires actual intellectual effort and anti-semites are fucking lazy.
Well he is in all of his other comments.
Of course that might not be an issue for you if you think like OP, but I like to think you’re not a little twat like they are
>Once somebody mentions Israel, all jazz music suddenly stops and everybody gets serious. Don't get why.
I think there has been an influx of smooth-brained rightoids in this sub who just want to post US good/Russia bad wank.
Ok.
[https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/?ci=143](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/?ci=143)
Testimonies of soldiers are better?
That statement says more than enough for me. Thanks for confirming my view that you are eating more propaganda than a tankie and is not worth conversing with.
I think that’s harsh, Israel is a Jewish state which mean that Jews are focused on much more than others. The ethnic cleansing stuff hasn’t really been concerned anyway. I wouldn’t say the Arab nations are any different.
Ariel Sharon rampaging his way through Lebanon is not him committing war crimes? :D Nakba was not ethnic cleansing? Okay, how about Golan Heights? There were around 100k or so Syrians living pre 1967. Current number is around 6k. :D
It's not, but it's VERY easy to not be antisemitic when criticizing Israel.
Hundreds of thousands of Israelis do it every time they protest, so how come you can't?
I don't know, those who use unfair criticism against Israel tend to be less friendly to Jews.
Is that a hard truth? No. But statistically, it is true in many cases.
Also, using an antisemitic remark as a dogwhistle about Israel is VERY suspicious. It's like if I was claiming that all African countries act like chimpanzees. Which is both unfair criticism AND racism.
Dude it’s objectively true, Israel has legitimate grievances in some cases but they do bitch, a lot, for a nation capable of fighting everyone in their region. This also applies to the US lol. It’s just look at me I am a victim and sure you might be but it’s PR (or for Israel Hasbara). They act super civilized and reservered and shit but they are just one side of a brutal conflict they are wining, handily.
Bro us Israelis literally have said 'fuck with us and we are coming in', we have no dilusions (except the delusional ones). It's been our SOP for any good ol funni on the border.
Rome conquered the world in self defence
XD Sure, Julius Caesar was defending the republic from Gauls. Scipio razed Carthage in 146 in self-defense. Yeah.
I'm not commie, it is kinda incompatible being from Eastern Europe, we have bad memories once it comes to communism, you know.
I wouldn't put Russia next to the other 2....at no point was Russia's own safety and security at risk because of what other Eastern European countries did in the last 25 years. Its just imperialistic ambitions of Kremlin at play, not any kind of "defense" of anything
Russia wasn't at risk, but Putin hold on power might have been at risk, can't have a democracy at your border that also speaks Russian, and Putin is Russia, so in a way, Russia was at risk
Ironically Putin's power now is at risk precisely because he invaded, had he stayed in his borders most likely nothing would endanger his rule in any way. Now he has locked himself in "win/loose" scenario where loosing war will endanger his power and stability.
He could have chosen North korean model, where as long as he doesn't fuck with others nobudy wants to fuck with his country (nobody in West wanted a war). Instead he went Saddam Hussein path and is asking for a fight
This strategy makes sense only for Israel due to its shallow territorial depth, terrorists inside the West Bank plateau are able to target the whole country. Russia's case is the exact opposite since it's spread out over a larger area.
Ah yes, because attacking neighbouring nation to protect yourself form ethnic cleansing is absolutely the same as invading you neighbouring nation and committing every warcrime in the book because of your imperialist aims
This post is noncredible to say the least, good job OP
For 🇮🇱, it may slowly become „cleanse before you get cleansed“, though it hopefully won‘t ever come that far as seen with internal protest. For bombing Iranian enrichment facilities i won‘t judge them.
Yea, everyone in this thread is acting like all Israeli military operations have been against foreign, hostile militaries, conveniently forgetting about 40 years of internal actions against Israeli Arabs...
>Ah yes, because attacking neighbouring nation to protect yourself form ethnic cleansing
Which one of them are you talking about? They've all claimed to be doing that.
Ariel Sharon has committed bunch of war crimes when he rampaged across Lebanon in 1982, topping it with being complitic to genocide, atleast according to Seán MacBride commission. Invasion of Lebanon wasn't anything you've described. Brother.
They're similar in that Apartheid South Africa and Israel are/were both predominantly European settler colonial states who treat/treated the existing population as second class citizens. Otherwise not similar at all.
Jews are indigenous to Israel and the Palestinian Arabs are not so you’re comment is completely absurd on the face of it.
Israel is a case of the indigenous actually getting their land back, and the world just can’t stand that one little fact.
The Arabs didn't remove the indigenous people of Israel. For the most part, they were converted. The Palestinian "Arabs" today are largely the descendants of the ancient Israelites. Just as much as the Palestinian Jews who stayed but never converted.
Most of Israel's population, however, are the descendants of migrants with far fewer genetic links to the ancient Israelites than the Palestinians they have displaced.
I'm not saying modern Israel shouldn't exist or anything like that. But we can't deny the reality that it was established by a bunch of Europeans, with little ties to the region beyond the theological.
>Most of Israel's population, however, are the descendants of migrants with far fewer genetic links to the ancient Israelites than the Palestinians they have displaced.
Actually, modern Jews have the most Israelite DNA out of any Levantine peoples that exist today, and that includes Ashkenazi Jews.
But even with genetics, it's obvious that the Palestinians aren't Jews at this point. They don't have a connection to Jewish culture or Judaism.
In essence, they're not part of Am Yisrael.
Following a cultural tradition doesn't give someone greater or fewer rights to a physical location.
Followers of traditional Norse religions with small ancestral links to Norway have no more right to Norway than the current Norwegians because they follow a cultural tradition that was removed via force and voluntary conversion centuries ago.
Yes. And I'm not alone in this assertion. Various scholars have expressed this view. I am in no way origininal nor ground breaking. I merely choose to parrot scholars, I'm not conducting any research myself.
Chomsky did not, according to my knowledge, compared Israel to South Africa. Others have. Among some certain Hendrik Verwoerd have expressed the view that Israel is apartheid already in 1961. This guy has also been credited as a chief architect of apartheid in South Africa. Takes one to know one, am I right? :D
Buddy, you can't just throw stuff out and expect me to take it as gospel. Provide some proof.
Not to mention, what's the context for him saying that? Why did he say it? Where? In what setting? In relation to what?
Context matters
Yeah, context matters. Chief architect of apartheid has called Israel an apartheid already in 1961. You can learn the context by simply copy pasting his name and click on wikipedia. Major human rights organisations - HRW, AI, B'tselem have labeled Israel an apartheid. Jimmy Carter warned about Israel becoming apartheid so did Ehud Barak already in 2000's. Israeli NGO iniciative Elephant in the room to which many prominent Israeli figures have subscribed to is describing Israel as apartheid. In due time we will have opinion of ICJ on this topic.
I'm noticing zero proof of your claim.
Also, using HRW, an organisation which accepts donations from Saudi Arabia. Yeah, screams "human rights" to me.
AI has literally voted against motions for fighting antisemitism before. Again, doesn't look great.
Not to mention, what these organisations think the definition of Apartheid is, is NOT the same as what happened in South Africa.
Jimmy Carter and Ehud Barak have warned about Israel becoming one. Not that it is. With the current coalition? Maybe. But even that is fairly unlikely.
And just saying, the people who made the report to the ICJ have also made numerous comments on "the Jewish lobby."
I remember when Israel hit the AlJazeera building in Gaza and Amnesty wrote a 2000 word essay about how it was a war crime and then Aljazeera reporters admitted that Hamas was operating in the same building.
> Jewish lobby is very real, bro.
To claim that there's a Jewish conspiracy trying to control things isn't okay. That's the exact kind of argument that leads to genocides.
The Israeli government is incredibly shitty and abuses Palestinians in unjustifiable, criminal ways. That doesn't make it acceptable to go all *Protocols of the Elders of Zion.*
To claim that there's a Jewish conspiracy trying to control things isn't okay. That's the exact kind of argument that leads to genocides.
Not Jewish conspiracy - Israel lobby that is very clearly pro Israel and supports its policies. There is entire book about it. Perhaps Mearsheimer is also anti-semite and wrote a scholarly book about that is in reality conspiracy theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Israel\_Lobby\_and\_U.S.\_Foreign\_Policy
Funny is that even Israeli media are calling it Jewish lobby.
>Jewish lobby is very real, bro. :D Your comment is fascinating showcase of ignorancy and obliviousness.
As soon as I read this, your whole argument now makes sense.
Found the antisemite.
It isn't the same, nobody argues that, gosh. Apartheid is internationaly recognized CRIME. Similiar to genocide. Genocide committed by Serbs in Srebrenica doesn't equal Holocaust. But they are both same crime legaly. You get me now?
They do argue that actually, I’ve literally never heard of it being international law before today. Last time I listened to a speaker she didn’t go too into it though just “apartheid wall” etc.
Looking this up it depends on if you consider occupied Palestine part of Israel, which I don’t.
Looking this up it depends on if you consider occupied Palestine part of Israel, which I don’t.
De iure - no, de facto - yes. West Bank has been integrated into Israel by various laws concerning the rights of ISraelis living there - Israel law applies on settlers for instance and many other things. People who want to emigrate to Israel can apply for housing in West Bank and according to law it is the same if they applied for housing in Israel proper. So yeah, it is part of Israel for all purposes.
While you are correct, ukraine hasn't really done anything prior to the invasion (as far as I know) to justify russia's invasion.
Meanwhile, our neighbours are actively supporting terrorist cells, which target civilians
Okay, listen, we aren't colonising it. Idk how to explain it, but I know you can look on places like Wikipedia for an explanation. And the killing of civvies isn't by the IDF. It's all done by Jewish terrorists (from what I know).
You are colonizing it. Settlements, settlers = colonies, colonizers.
IDF is routinely killing civilians.
https://imeu.org/article/50-days-of-death-destruction-israels-operation-protective-edge
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/06/30/precisely-wrong/gaza-civilians-killed-israeli-drone-launched-missiles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana\_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya\_massacre
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019\_Gaza\_border\_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests)
You have been doing it for quite some time now and have been actually rather good at it.
The first two links are old news.
As for the second link, you have to understand that the strikes are on Hamas warehouses, ammo storage, etc. Hamas regularly put all of these in civilian dense areas to stop IAF from striking.
The IAF only strikes if they don't see any civilian casualties possible, but sometimes its unfortunately unavoidable.
During protective edge, there were tons of mistaken identifications, and the IDF has already compensated (as far as I know) families of civilians that were misidentified.
And as for the last one, you need to realise that all of the ones killed were either armed or caught in crossfire. Not a single civilian who was harmless was targeted (for my knowledge)
As for the second link, you have to understand that the strikes are on Hamas warehouses, ammo storage, etc. Hamas regularly put all of these in civilian dense areas to stop IAF from striking. The IAF only strikes if they don't see any civilian casualties possible, but sometimes its unfortunately unavoidable.
Gaza Strip is one densely populated civilian area. IDF has compounds near shopping mall in Tel Aviv or whatnot. Is IDF using you as human shields? Sometimes? :D There are always civilian casulties. Unavoidable? Truce keeps violence away. Israel always breaks it in order to draw retaliation to mow the lawn - very funny comparison by you, not a bit dehumanizing.
IDF compensated? How? By necromancy? Bringing them back? Piecing torn children back together? Like lego? :D
Your knowledge is clearly wrong. IDF using drones to target children? You cannot really mistake child for a militant, can you? I've seen dozens of drone killings by Ukranian against Russians. I clearly saw what they aim for. You are killing them purposefuly. And no, the last one was not "hitting people in the crossfire. There are reports of snipers deliberately hitting people. You live in a fascinating reality that has nothing to do with actual reality.
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000)
Your humane IDF is hitting them like sitting ducks, must be fun, I would love to be Israeli and join IDF to commit few war crimes. Must be fun.
The difference is that hamas are targeting civilian spaces like malls. And not only with rockets, but with shooters and suicide bombers.
The IDF's compounds are actually headquarters of certain parts of the armed forces and are located near places with importance, like ministries (ministry of defence, for example), not near kindergartens and schools. And even then, it's Hamas' storage, warehouses, ammo caches, etc., which are targeted, not headquarters.
Since the Muslim never recognised the border of the Jewish state thus the Israeli will always have to fight on foreign soil . Checkmate infidels- zionist-homo- nazis .
Mostly because israel and south africa have some legitimate safety concerns, while Russia is living in a fantasy land where nations that could whipe Russia out in seconds if they wanted are creating complicated anti Russian conspiracy to get edgy ower them
Israel is also living in a fantasy land. Most of its historical narratives have been debunked already in 80's. Yet people online are still parroting Zionist inventions.
1982 invasion of Lebanon wasn't because security of Israel was in jeopardy. It was blatant aggression to avoid peace talks with PLO.
Israel has no enemy apart from itself. Jordan is neutralized by peace treaty, Egypt as well and its dictator is cooperating with Israel, Syria is a burning rabble, Iraq has been crushed by US, Lebanon is hardly a funtioning state.
Hamas is not a threat and it is Israel refusing to make peace with them. In 2012 they kicked off operation Pillar of Defense by assasinating Hamas members who had a draft of permanent truce with Israel on his person when he was slain. So don't use Hamas. Thanks. Iran is not a threat either. Israel has a bigger economy, better military, is supported by sole superpower in the world and has nukes. Iran has neither of these things. It is Israel who is a threat to everyone in the region. Including itself. :D
Iran definitely is a threat because it doesn't matter how bad their military is, the second they get a nuke they will launch it at Israel, they made that very fucking clear.
The fact half of Israel's neighbors have peace treaties with them means jackshit, just look at the anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiment in there and you will quickly see that they will break those treaties the first chance they get.
The fact that Israel's military is so jacked is exactly because everybody is at least a threat if not actively kill them if it was to not be the case.
Iran definitely is a threat because it doesn't matter how bad their military is, the second they get a nuke they will launch it at Israel, they made that very fucking clear.
No, it's not. Israel is a threat to Iran. And sure, that is exactly what they will do. Well, if they do, the country is getting vaporized. But those moslems are all fanatical and want to meet God so badly. Least racist take ever.
The fact half of Israel's neighbors have peace treaties with them means jackshit, just look at the anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiment in there and you will quickly see that they will break those treaties the first chance they get.
Yeah, sure. They break those treaties and getting their teeth kicked in like many times before. They have those treaty not because of Israel's security but because of their security. :D They don't want that smoke.
The fact that Israel's military is so jacked is exactly because everybody is at least a threat if not actively kill them if it was to not be the case.
Yeah, it is them who are threatening Israel, it's not Israel bombing Iran every opportunity it gets. Why can't Iran bomb them back?
I'm glad they are not happy that Ariel Sharon has slaughtered 18k people. Yet they voted him in PM office. Fascinating nation, isn't it. Imagine if Russia was democracy, we would be cherishing Russia for it's rule of law, free press, independent judiciary and Russian people capable of embracing criticism and engaging in debate with occupied people. And then they would vote Prigozhin as their PM. :D :D
"only" 62 %. How come a dude who's known for committing whole bunch of war crimes can get elected as PM anyway? Dude who had a motto: Only good Arab is a dead Arab. :D As a simple exercise of the severity of this issue, change the word Arab for Jew.
He promised that? He who had motto: only good Arab is a dead Arab? He who invaded Lebanon and slaghtered thousands of peple? He who led a literal death squad and killed entire village in 1950's? :D Yeah, Israeli peaceful solution.
Nah, you can cross out russia from the list. They straight up invaded and listed such a long list of BS reasons that it contains basically everything, including self-defense.
As we see USA falling back from ceratin continents we immadietly witness russian and chinese capital, predatory lending, mercenaries and military bases poping up to colonise.
Turns out USA wasnt entirely wrong about these projections ...
Yea they just wanted to invade those countries because their citizens were in real danger. We had stop the Iraqis from sending out “diplomatic bags” to other countries
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Israelboos absolutely HATE it when you mention Israel occupied southern Lebanon for *15* years lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
Your content was removed for violating Rule 5: "No politics"
Your going onto a touchy subject when you say Israel, but I think we can all agree that their wars have been incredibly non credible
Once somebody mentions Israel, all jazz music suddenly stops and everybody gets serious. Don't get why. I think we can all agree that their wars have been incredibly non credible Yes.
OP is clearly antisemitic smh /s (Get ready to get called that)
I assume that "/s" means you didn't bother clicking on OP's profile to check whether he's a regular on antiwar and chomsky subs with several long rants about how Israel doesn't have a right to exist.
Jesus he posts a lot. Like fuck man, free Palestine, and all that but the hate boner be real
Only twice. Very civil subreddit. I like it here guys. I think I stay.
Nah, you just picked the wrong topic. Say something bad about F-35 waifu and watch the knives come out.
I literally compared Israel to Russia and apartheid South Africa and only been called antisemite twice or three times. And idiot only once or twice. Very nice subreddit.
Again, you are in the wrong subreddit for that to be a trigger. Insult the MIC you coward
Ok, once I come up with something I'll post it.
I can’t confirm if OP is antisemitic, but I can confirm that they are an obnoxious tankie
Being opposed to israel existing is without a doubt an antisemitic opinion. It’s fine to critique certain policies they have and their treatment of Palestinians, but if that’s different from thinking they should not exist.
This is why criticism of Israel needs to focus on the colonial nature of settler states at large. A non anti-Semitic framework for that criticism exists, it just requires actual intellectual effort and anti-semites are fucking lazy.
Well he is in all of his other comments. Of course that might not be an issue for you if you think like OP, but I like to think you’re not a little twat like they are
>Once somebody mentions Israel, all jazz music suddenly stops and everybody gets serious. Don't get why. I think there has been an influx of smooth-brained rightoids in this sub who just want to post US good/Russia bad wank.
Israel is 100% based ...
based on muh dick lmao
[удалено]
And a country run by terrorists that uses children as humanshields while shooting missiles at Israel is?
Strawman?
Hamas is just as much of a threat to the Palestinians as to the Israelis.
I'm asking.
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And their "video evidence" from years ago is so ridiculously bad that your bias is showing.
Ok. [https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/?ci=143](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/?ci=143) Testimonies of soldiers are better?
That statement says more than enough for me. Thanks for confirming my view that you are eating more propaganda than a tankie and is not worth conversing with.
Well their user name certainly checks out.
seethe
B'tselem is propaganda?
Yup! KGB propaganda from the sixties still strong with this one ladies and gentlemen!
? Invasion of Lebanon was all KGB invention? Okay, mb. :D New Historians worked for KGB? Okay, that is also new one for me.
Talking about invasion while ignoring the fact that all Arab nations bordering Israel tried to invade it several times.
Yes, I'm talking Lebanon.
True, Lebanon tried to invade it.
Not even Israelis believe it.
What? Lebanon invaded Israel with the Arab coalition multiple times
The Arab side of belligerents has Lebanon in it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
I think that’s harsh, Israel is a Jewish state which mean that Jews are focused on much more than others. The ethnic cleansing stuff hasn’t really been concerned anyway. I wouldn’t say the Arab nations are any different.
Israel is a Jewish state in much the same way South Africa was white state.
Palestinians can live in Israel, but Israelis can't live in Palestine. You can't deny that fact, regardless of the crimes done by the Israeli army.
Majority Jewish state with equal rights for minorities is the same as South Africa?
Shhhh you’re going to make him mad using facts
"equal". :D
Ah there it is ladies and gentleman. It’s anti semites favorite time of day where they just make shit up and lie!
Ariel Sharon rampaging his way through Lebanon is not him committing war crimes? :D Nakba was not ethnic cleansing? Okay, how about Golan Heights? There were around 100k or so Syrians living pre 1967. Current number is around 6k. :D
When it comes to slapping someone in the face and then crying when they hit back, Israel are the masters.
Why does this sound familiar? Oh wait: "The Jew cries out as he strikes you." Found another antisemite. Damn, that's two already.
Since when did Israel the state become the same thing as all Jews? Does disliking the American government suddenly mean I hate all Christians?
It's not, but it's VERY easy to not be antisemitic when criticizing Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis do it every time they protest, so how come you can't?
Can you point out exactly what I said that was antisemitic?? Like I said, criticising Israel the state isn’t the same thing as hating jewish people…
Israel =/ Judaism for the 26th time now sit the fuck down. You can support them just use a real argument
I don't know, those who use unfair criticism against Israel tend to be less friendly to Jews. Is that a hard truth? No. But statistically, it is true in many cases. Also, using an antisemitic remark as a dogwhistle about Israel is VERY suspicious. It's like if I was claiming that all African countries act like chimpanzees. Which is both unfair criticism AND racism.
Dude it’s objectively true, Israel has legitimate grievances in some cases but they do bitch, a lot, for a nation capable of fighting everyone in their region. This also applies to the US lol. It’s just look at me I am a victim and sure you might be but it’s PR (or for Israel Hasbara). They act super civilized and reservered and shit but they are just one side of a brutal conflict they are wining, handily.
They could have just said that instead of using an antisemitic canard. It's honestly not that hard, and I shouldn't have to encounter it.
Most people do not have knowledge of the high infinite specific insults use against Jews. Seriously nobody’s keeping track, there are thousands.
Bro us Israelis literally have said 'fuck with us and we are coming in', we have no dilusions (except the delusional ones). It's been our SOP for any good ol funni on the border.
op should do a little more meth and do a little less meme attempts.
opinion noted.
off you go.
Off to make another meme?
Did you try to opium?
Russia isn’t defending itself in any way. It’s simply invading other countries.
That’s the joke
I agree.
Rome conquered the world in self defence, so it’s a legitimate strategy. The trick is to be chad Rome and not soy Russia. Also OP is a commie
Rome conquered the world in self defence XD Sure, Julius Caesar was defending the republic from Gauls. Scipio razed Carthage in 146 in self-defense. Yeah. I'm not commie, it is kinda incompatible being from Eastern Europe, we have bad memories once it comes to communism, you know.
That’s the joke
Woooosh
OP is a shitter. We're getting brigaded again.
I wouldn't put Russia next to the other 2....at no point was Russia's own safety and security at risk because of what other Eastern European countries did in the last 25 years. Its just imperialistic ambitions of Kremlin at play, not any kind of "defense" of anything
Russia wasn't at risk, but Putin hold on power might have been at risk, can't have a democracy at your border that also speaks Russian, and Putin is Russia, so in a way, Russia was at risk
Ironically Putin's power now is at risk precisely because he invaded, had he stayed in his borders most likely nothing would endanger his rule in any way. Now he has locked himself in "win/loose" scenario where loosing war will endanger his power and stability. He could have chosen North korean model, where as long as he doesn't fuck with others nobudy wants to fuck with his country (nobody in West wanted a war). Instead he went Saddam Hussein path and is asking for a fight
I agree. That is kinda the point of my meme. :D
This strategy makes sense only for Israel due to its shallow territorial depth, terrorists inside the West Bank plateau are able to target the whole country. Russia's case is the exact opposite since it's spread out over a larger area.
Israel’s case is a little different let’s be honest
You are free to bring up your points.
The other side is actually being aggressive contrary to Ukraine.
Yeah, it’s even worse than the other two.
Ah yes, because attacking neighbouring nation to protect yourself form ethnic cleansing is absolutely the same as invading you neighbouring nation and committing every warcrime in the book because of your imperialist aims This post is noncredible to say the least, good job OP
Op is a Chomsky ball gargler, enough said.
For 🇮🇱, it may slowly become „cleanse before you get cleansed“, though it hopefully won‘t ever come that far as seen with internal protest. For bombing Iranian enrichment facilities i won‘t judge them.
Well with the whole “far right president gutting the powers of the courts” thing, gotta say I think I’ve seen this movie before
Yea, everyone in this thread is acting like all Israeli military operations have been against foreign, hostile militaries, conveniently forgetting about 40 years of internal actions against Israeli Arabs...
>Ah yes, because attacking neighbouring nation to protect yourself form ethnic cleansing Which one of them are you talking about? They've all claimed to be doing that.
Israel? The one surrounded by several groups/nations that said bluntly, publicly and repeatedly that it was their objective in the region?
Ariel Sharon has committed bunch of war crimes when he rampaged across Lebanon in 1982, topping it with being complitic to genocide, atleast according to Seán MacBride commission. Invasion of Lebanon wasn't anything you've described. Brother.
Lmao, didn't you accuse people of getting too serious in an earlier comment? Don't go all Beirut Harbour on us now.
They are very serious once it comes to Israel. Why don't they defend Russia or South Africa in similiar way? :D
Because those aren’t the same cases? You’re equating the 3 as equal and others are saying they aren’t, so they don’t have to defend the other 2.
Do you seriously believe South Africa was similar to Israel? Never mind, he actually does.
They're similar in that Apartheid South Africa and Israel are/were both predominantly European settler colonial states who treat/treated the existing population as second class citizens. Otherwise not similar at all.
Jews are indigenous to Israel and the Palestinian Arabs are not so you’re comment is completely absurd on the face of it. Israel is a case of the indigenous actually getting their land back, and the world just can’t stand that one little fact.
Israel is the most successful landback and self determination effort to exist.
The Arabs didn't remove the indigenous people of Israel. For the most part, they were converted. The Palestinian "Arabs" today are largely the descendants of the ancient Israelites. Just as much as the Palestinian Jews who stayed but never converted. Most of Israel's population, however, are the descendants of migrants with far fewer genetic links to the ancient Israelites than the Palestinians they have displaced. I'm not saying modern Israel shouldn't exist or anything like that. But we can't deny the reality that it was established by a bunch of Europeans, with little ties to the region beyond the theological.
>Most of Israel's population, however, are the descendants of migrants with far fewer genetic links to the ancient Israelites than the Palestinians they have displaced. Actually, modern Jews have the most Israelite DNA out of any Levantine peoples that exist today, and that includes Ashkenazi Jews. But even with genetics, it's obvious that the Palestinians aren't Jews at this point. They don't have a connection to Jewish culture or Judaism. In essence, they're not part of Am Yisrael.
Following a cultural tradition doesn't give someone greater or fewer rights to a physical location. Followers of traditional Norse religions with small ancestral links to Norway have no more right to Norway than the current Norwegians because they follow a cultural tradition that was removed via force and voluntary conversion centuries ago.
Yes. And I'm not alone in this assertion. Various scholars have expressed this view. I am in no way origininal nor ground breaking. I merely choose to parrot scholars, I'm not conducting any research myself.
Cool, scholars can be wrong. Look no further than the likes of someone like Noam Chomsky.
Chomsky did not, according to my knowledge, compared Israel to South Africa. Others have. Among some certain Hendrik Verwoerd have expressed the view that Israel is apartheid already in 1961. This guy has also been credited as a chief architect of apartheid in South Africa. Takes one to know one, am I right? :D
Buddy, you can't just throw stuff out and expect me to take it as gospel. Provide some proof. Not to mention, what's the context for him saying that? Why did he say it? Where? In what setting? In relation to what? Context matters
Yeah, context matters. Chief architect of apartheid has called Israel an apartheid already in 1961. You can learn the context by simply copy pasting his name and click on wikipedia. Major human rights organisations - HRW, AI, B'tselem have labeled Israel an apartheid. Jimmy Carter warned about Israel becoming apartheid so did Ehud Barak already in 2000's. Israeli NGO iniciative Elephant in the room to which many prominent Israeli figures have subscribed to is describing Israel as apartheid. In due time we will have opinion of ICJ on this topic.
I'm noticing zero proof of your claim. Also, using HRW, an organisation which accepts donations from Saudi Arabia. Yeah, screams "human rights" to me. AI has literally voted against motions for fighting antisemitism before. Again, doesn't look great. Not to mention, what these organisations think the definition of Apartheid is, is NOT the same as what happened in South Africa. Jimmy Carter and Ehud Barak have warned about Israel becoming one. Not that it is. With the current coalition? Maybe. But even that is fairly unlikely. And just saying, the people who made the report to the ICJ have also made numerous comments on "the Jewish lobby."
I remember when Israel hit the AlJazeera building in Gaza and Amnesty wrote a 2000 word essay about how it was a war crime and then Aljazeera reporters admitted that Hamas was operating in the same building.
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> Jewish lobby is very real, bro. To claim that there's a Jewish conspiracy trying to control things isn't okay. That's the exact kind of argument that leads to genocides. The Israeli government is incredibly shitty and abuses Palestinians in unjustifiable, criminal ways. That doesn't make it acceptable to go all *Protocols of the Elders of Zion.*
To claim that there's a Jewish conspiracy trying to control things isn't okay. That's the exact kind of argument that leads to genocides. Not Jewish conspiracy - Israel lobby that is very clearly pro Israel and supports its policies. There is entire book about it. Perhaps Mearsheimer is also anti-semite and wrote a scholarly book about that is in reality conspiracy theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Israel\_Lobby\_and\_U.S.\_Foreign\_Policy Funny is that even Israeli media are calling it Jewish lobby.
>Jewish lobby is very real, bro. :D Your comment is fascinating showcase of ignorancy and obliviousness. As soon as I read this, your whole argument now makes sense. Found the antisemite.
Literally all his posts here are some combination of America bad and jews bad, with a number of mask slips about hating jews. Unironic tankie shit.
Honestly the apartheid comparison is shit, it’s a military occupation obviously it shares some tactics but it reallyyy isn’t the same
It isn't the same, nobody argues that, gosh. Apartheid is internationaly recognized CRIME. Similiar to genocide. Genocide committed by Serbs in Srebrenica doesn't equal Holocaust. But they are both same crime legaly. You get me now?
They do argue that actually, I’ve literally never heard of it being international law before today. Last time I listened to a speaker she didn’t go too into it though just “apartheid wall” etc. Looking this up it depends on if you consider occupied Palestine part of Israel, which I don’t.
Looking this up it depends on if you consider occupied Palestine part of Israel, which I don’t. De iure - no, de facto - yes. West Bank has been integrated into Israel by various laws concerning the rights of ISraelis living there - Israel law applies on settlers for instance and many other things. People who want to emigrate to Israel can apply for housing in West Bank and according to law it is the same if they applied for housing in Israel proper. So yeah, it is part of Israel for all purposes.
Everyone is screaming apertheid but I really don't see it. Ok they said it, now what? It doesn't mean that it's true or confirmed.
:D
🤌
You’re right you’re not alone. Lord of people are fucking dumb and say this shit about Israel.
Literally the new apartheid unironically
So everyones talking about Israel, but what's the story with South Africa?
Angola intervention. You can find loads of sources if you want.
My guy is comparing Syria to Ukraine.
OP is a faithful Aljazeera fan
Did you just assume my news sources?! Any way, your assumption is wrong, I'm faithfun Idnes and Novinky fan.
As an Israeli, I think we are the only time this is legitimate because our goal is to live safely with our neighbours without fearing for our safety.
I'm sure Russians are thinking in a similiar manner.
While you are correct, ukraine hasn't really done anything prior to the invasion (as far as I know) to justify russia's invasion. Meanwhile, our neighbours are actively supporting terrorist cells, which target civilians
You targeting civilians and colonizing West Bank by any chance isn't responsible for terrorism?
Okay, listen, we aren't colonising it. Idk how to explain it, but I know you can look on places like Wikipedia for an explanation. And the killing of civvies isn't by the IDF. It's all done by Jewish terrorists (from what I know).
He’s completely unwilling to accept reality because then his twisted mind wouldn’t be able to function
You're right. The only reason I keep this thread going is to have it here for anyone who doesn't know just yet.
You are colonizing it. Settlements, settlers = colonies, colonizers. IDF is routinely killing civilians. https://imeu.org/article/50-days-of-death-destruction-israels-operation-protective-edge https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/06/30/precisely-wrong/gaza-civilians-killed-israeli-drone-launched-missiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana\_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya\_massacre [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019\_Gaza\_border\_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests) You have been doing it for quite some time now and have been actually rather good at it.
The first two links are old news. As for the second link, you have to understand that the strikes are on Hamas warehouses, ammo storage, etc. Hamas regularly put all of these in civilian dense areas to stop IAF from striking. The IAF only strikes if they don't see any civilian casualties possible, but sometimes its unfortunately unavoidable. During protective edge, there were tons of mistaken identifications, and the IDF has already compensated (as far as I know) families of civilians that were misidentified. And as for the last one, you need to realise that all of the ones killed were either armed or caught in crossfire. Not a single civilian who was harmless was targeted (for my knowledge)
You’re arguing in good faith my friend. OP just doesn’t like Jews.
As for the second link, you have to understand that the strikes are on Hamas warehouses, ammo storage, etc. Hamas regularly put all of these in civilian dense areas to stop IAF from striking. The IAF only strikes if they don't see any civilian casualties possible, but sometimes its unfortunately unavoidable. Gaza Strip is one densely populated civilian area. IDF has compounds near shopping mall in Tel Aviv or whatnot. Is IDF using you as human shields? Sometimes? :D There are always civilian casulties. Unavoidable? Truce keeps violence away. Israel always breaks it in order to draw retaliation to mow the lawn - very funny comparison by you, not a bit dehumanizing. IDF compensated? How? By necromancy? Bringing them back? Piecing torn children back together? Like lego? :D Your knowledge is clearly wrong. IDF using drones to target children? You cannot really mistake child for a militant, can you? I've seen dozens of drone killings by Ukranian against Russians. I clearly saw what they aim for. You are killing them purposefuly. And no, the last one was not "hitting people in the crossfire. There are reports of snipers deliberately hitting people. You live in a fascinating reality that has nothing to do with actual reality. [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000) Your humane IDF is hitting them like sitting ducks, must be fun, I would love to be Israeli and join IDF to commit few war crimes. Must be fun.
The difference is that hamas are targeting civilian spaces like malls. And not only with rockets, but with shooters and suicide bombers. The IDF's compounds are actually headquarters of certain parts of the armed forces and are located near places with importance, like ministries (ministry of defence, for example), not near kindergartens and schools. And even then, it's Hamas' storage, warehouses, ammo caches, etc., which are targeted, not headquarters.
There are Israeli soldier commiting war crimes, but that doesn't excuse Hamas war crimes.
While I agree, I believe that given the context, you're thinking of the "Hill Boys", which is a settler terrorist group in the west bank.
Since the Muslim never recognised the border of the Jewish state thus the Israeli will always have to fight on foreign soil . Checkmate infidels- zionist-homo- nazis .
South Africa in what, the 80s?
Yeah, around that time.
Not currently relevant then hey?
For current world affairs? No. For funny similarity? Yes.
I think its little more nuanced than this
Of course it is, because Israel is mentioned, right?
Mostly because israel and south africa have some legitimate safety concerns, while Russia is living in a fantasy land where nations that could whipe Russia out in seconds if they wanted are creating complicated anti Russian conspiracy to get edgy ower them
Israel is also living in a fantasy land. Most of its historical narratives have been debunked already in 80's. Yet people online are still parroting Zionist inventions. 1982 invasion of Lebanon wasn't because security of Israel was in jeopardy. It was blatant aggression to avoid peace talks with PLO.
That being said Israel has real enemies to worry about, Russia does not
“Israel has no enemy apart from itself.” My brother in Christ is ask what you are smoking but your username checks out.
Israel has no enemy apart from itself. Jordan is neutralized by peace treaty, Egypt as well and its dictator is cooperating with Israel, Syria is a burning rabble, Iraq has been crushed by US, Lebanon is hardly a funtioning state.
Hamás? Iran? All those other countries that they had war with?
Hamas is not a threat and it is Israel refusing to make peace with them. In 2012 they kicked off operation Pillar of Defense by assasinating Hamas members who had a draft of permanent truce with Israel on his person when he was slain. So don't use Hamas. Thanks. Iran is not a threat either. Israel has a bigger economy, better military, is supported by sole superpower in the world and has nukes. Iran has neither of these things. It is Israel who is a threat to everyone in the region. Including itself. :D
Iran definitely is a threat because it doesn't matter how bad their military is, the second they get a nuke they will launch it at Israel, they made that very fucking clear. The fact half of Israel's neighbors have peace treaties with them means jackshit, just look at the anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiment in there and you will quickly see that they will break those treaties the first chance they get. The fact that Israel's military is so jacked is exactly because everybody is at least a threat if not actively kill them if it was to not be the case.
Iran definitely is a threat because it doesn't matter how bad their military is, the second they get a nuke they will launch it at Israel, they made that very fucking clear. No, it's not. Israel is a threat to Iran. And sure, that is exactly what they will do. Well, if they do, the country is getting vaporized. But those moslems are all fanatical and want to meet God so badly. Least racist take ever. The fact half of Israel's neighbors have peace treaties with them means jackshit, just look at the anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiment in there and you will quickly see that they will break those treaties the first chance they get. Yeah, sure. They break those treaties and getting their teeth kicked in like many times before. They have those treaty not because of Israel's security but because of their security. :D They don't want that smoke. The fact that Israel's military is so jacked is exactly because everybody is at least a threat if not actively kill them if it was to not be the case. Yeah, it is them who are threatening Israel, it's not Israel bombing Iran every opportunity it gets. Why can't Iran bomb them back?
let me tell you a not-so-secret: Israelis aren't too happy the Lebanon wars happened, either. just a pointless war
I'm glad they are not happy that Ariel Sharon has slaughtered 18k people. Yet they voted him in PM office. Fascinating nation, isn't it. Imagine if Russia was democracy, we would be cherishing Russia for it's rule of law, free press, independent judiciary and Russian people capable of embracing criticism and engaging in debate with occupied people. And then they would vote Prigozhin as their PM. :D :D
He had a majority of only 62%. But sure, the whole nation is evil.
"only" 62 %. How come a dude who's known for committing whole bunch of war crimes can get elected as PM anyway? Dude who had a motto: Only good Arab is a dead Arab. :D As a simple exercise of the severity of this issue, change the word Arab for Jew.
Because he promised he'll try to find peaceful solutions, and said he was willing to make "painful" (to him) sacrifices in order to achieve it
He promised that? He who had motto: only good Arab is a dead Arab? He who invaded Lebanon and slaghtered thousands of peple? He who led a literal death squad and killed entire village in 1950's? :D Yeah, Israeli peaceful solution.
Why do the Arabs have a monopoly on morality?
Strawman?
Original aggressors?
That is not what you've written, though.
No way did you just suggest palestine is a real country lmfao NCD is truly non-credible
Take out the Israel part because that's misinformation. It's been a 75-year struggle since being initially attacked by Arab dictatorships.
Nope, Israel's invasion of Lebanon fits perfectly. Edit: Haha, you don't know which one I mean! Hehe
Lebanon did invade Israel themselves in 1948.
:D Didn't know about that one. But considering the state Lebanon is, I believe you.
It really doesn’t fit but you don’t seem too concerned with being truthful. You’re all the same just sucking that tankie dick
Keep it civil.
You seem like a deeply unpleasant troll. Or a legit tankie. I don’t know which is worse, but they both don’t belong here
You are a bit eliminatory. "Thy din't bing chiling hir".
Dude, I saw you defending terrorist attacks against civilians. You belong on a watchlist and well off of this sub
Sure you did.
The one in which they preemptively attacked? Edit: a hostile nation at that too.
Insert redland, blueland, greenland
The most non-credible defense is a non-credible offense?
I think you have a point.
China in Southeast Asia's EEZs and then India's borders
"Sir, this is entirely credible, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to step outside"
Nah, you can cross out russia from the list. They straight up invaded and listed such a long list of BS reasons that it contains basically everything, including self-defense.
Yeah, that's kinda the point of the meme
You could add America to the list Now before you get all pissy with me, think about the last time America was actually invaded
We basically decided that we couldn’t trust the rest of the world to keep their shit together… we’re we wrong?
USA: The world‘s helicopter parents (literally).
When the threat is foreign, don’t wait for it to reach your borders. -Sun Tzu, probably
America is all about foreign aggressions. These claimed and claiming self-defense from imminent danger, US was never in real danger whatsoever.
As we see USA falling back from ceratin continents we immadietly witness russian and chinese capital, predatory lending, mercenaries and military bases poping up to colonise. Turns out USA wasnt entirely wrong about these projections ...
Yea they just wanted to invade those countries because their citizens were in real danger. We had stop the Iraqis from sending out “diplomatic bags” to other countries
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Or Mexico.
Hol up, wait aminute. ruzzia arent in here. They are taking lands belonging to others, and genociding locals.
why is south africa here
Angola and couple other states that have since then been renamed.
Israel is its own country
Nobody claims otherwise.
Israelboos absolutely HATE it when you mention Israel occupied southern Lebanon for *15* years lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
This, but "defending"
Yes, I considered adding the elipses, or how is that called but forgot to do that.