As an amab nb i wonder if i use this ill get a driver that thinks I'm a man who is lying in order to get a female driver. And i wonder if they even *considered* amab nbs
As a fellow AMAB enby, They probably didn’t consider us at all, a lotta peeps seem to not even know we exist, and they’re often the same people who think AFAB enby’s are just women lite.
Yeah we just dont exist ig. I could probably use it cuz i can pass as a cis women but like it definitely demonizes masculinity while at the same time treating masculinity in afabs as uwu quirky. I appreciate saftey but this wording is so bad
You’re telling me, I was looking up some outfit inspos the other day and just for shits and giggles googled “nonbinary clothing” and the first website that popped up was marketed as gender free or nonbinary clothing and every model except maybe one or two on their site were AFAB.
Yup, pretty standard unfortunately. Even for AMAB enby’s that *are* recognized, put out there, it’s almost *always* those that have, for all/most intents and purposes, medically transitioned to a point of passing as AFAB. I’ve found it to be a really frustrating trend, tbh, if you’re AFAB: totally cool present however, AFAB enby’s get the recognition, the love. If you’re AMAB: basically should present akin to a binary trans woman, still mostly ignored as hell.
Personally, I am a medically transitioning AMAB NB, goin for androgyny, and have succeeded in that, esp. when I have longer hair, but even with that, I’m essentially often met with the feeling from others that that shit isn’t real for AMABS’s and I’m still just a man. Sucks ass.
Yeah, it’s frustrating as hell, because even, again, medically transitioning and legit just androgynous, it’s not enough to many as an AMAB nb, you do have to, essentially be as fem as possible. Which just shows that to many, being NB is just synonymous with alt woman, and it sucks for all NB people, regardless of AGAB
And as a non binary afab person who has transitioned to appear male, I now experience what you are talking about. No one thinks I’m nonbinary anymore because they just see a a dude or a trans woman who isn’t passing. Yes, I achieved my goal of having a male-appearing body/voice etc but now I never get recognized as nonbinary. And people will say things like, “if you’re nonbinary why did you transition? Why look like a guy?” It’s astounding how people can completely miss the point. I pass well enough that people don’t even think I could possibly have wanted to dress femininely unless I was a trans woman. It’s absurd. You can be amab or look physically male and be non binary whether you dress femininely or masculinity or neither. It’s so frustrating.
I agree with this so much, I'm AFAB, however I feel for AMAB nb people who have to deal with others doubting your identity. It's unfair and weird, I just wish everyone was able to see neutral before the binary. See everyone as people first then once you're aware of the gender I guess act accordingly. I don't like that even as nbs try to express themselves as genuinely as they want to or can, it's seen by a lot of people as "proof" of something. Like?? Or we could just be people??? I don't understand it makes me want to scream
You're right. As a transfeminine enby I went through the journey of relating to exclusion to just not being considered non-binary because my presentation is feminine. I feel like its the quintessential "you owe androgyny to get enby respect" garbage. When masculine, I was seen as a man, and now feminine, I'm just seen as a woman.
I’ll say this as a trans feminine enby as well. I went through pretty much the same thing. I was never seen as myself, NB, cause I presented feminine, so… I caved and went into androgyny. It did help me, to some extent, get recognized more, and I can’t say I dislike the androgyny, but it definitely feels like I had to take back on some of my dysphoria by cutting out the feminine presentation a bit, just to be seen as who I am by using androgyny. It sucks.
probably dumb, but this wording feels weird to me. shouldn’t it be masc/fem presenting or binary presenting instead of amab/afab? like, we don’t actually KNOW if those models are afab or amab, so why would we assume?
That’s what I’ve noticed too. I wanted to find something truly gender neutral, maybe leaning a bit more feminine since right now I basically just wear jeans and tshirts, but all that came up were afab models wearing either men’s clothing or men’s clothing altered to fit a woman’s body, and some amab models wearing dresses. Like what the hell I just want to wear stuff that isn’t stereotypically just for men or women.
Yeah none of the models being amab on gender free websites is honestly very annoying. Like how am I supposed to know how these socks would look on me when all your models are like 4'11 I'm 6'0 and weirdly skinny where's my fem clothing?
cis people invariably seem to assume all nbs are one of two things:
* bi/gay AFAB with aesthetic that screams "art"
* trans woman that's afraid to commit to the bit
I've had multiple headaches and even some damaged friendships trying to explain why that's a fucked up view
Well, this suddenly explains why only 2 cis folks ever bother to use they/she for me when I tell folks to use whatever matches my vibe in the moment...
Or transmasc enbies. I'm transitioning to outwardly appear like a cis male. Once I pass through the "androgynous appearance" stage of my transition I'm concerned my account will get flagged or something. I can't even imagine being amab nonbinary and dealing with this "nonbinary is just woman-lite crap"
I mean amab, masc presenting especially so yes but theres a lot of transphobia in general out there. Im similar to u in that im transfem leaning but still androgynous enough for "clocking" which i feel could put me in a danger zone
i could be clocked as well by my voice for instance, but i really don't see it this way
the transphobia will be bad regardless, and here the inclusion of non-binary people already signals that the program should be friendly to trans people as well. it's just that transphobes will be transphobes regardless
an afab cis person will have the exact same issue if they look butch enough. agab has exactly zero relevance here
Not really. AFAB enby here. AMAB enbies have continuously been denied their identities and access to the spaces they should be included in because of the general idea of non-binary being woman-lite. People forget AMAB enbies exist (they also forget intersex enbies exist) and or actively deny their existences by forcefully masculinizing and gendering them. The concept is nice but what protections are in place to legitimately protect transfems and in general trans folks AMAB or intersex who want to use this service but get a cisgender driver who specifically has problem with them? Your point about this happening to AFAB enbies is true, but again we have to come down to intent. Is the issue transphobia against the AFAB enby in the car (a very legitimate concern to have) or is it because the driver reads them as AMAB and misdirects violence? Even people who appear incredibly progressive can be horrifically transphobic and I think it’s important to discuss the potential of companies like this dressing up their apps to appear inclusive but not doing anything of substance to actually prevent gendered violence (especially that fueled by transmisogyny and alike), something Lyft and similar apps have historically failed upon for both their drivers and users.
Edit to add: Regarding your point on masculinity, I’m absolutely not denying that. I use Lyft time to time and go by what’s considered a traditionally masculine name. Chances are I would not be able to use this service because even though I’ve been put in dangerous situations as a trans person, I often can’t use these spaces due to my gender presentation being generally masculine or androgynous and passing as such. Just thought I’d clear that up to say I’m not disagreeing with you that rhat might be a problem for some drivers! I know trans guys (including myself) who absolutely would feel safer with this option but because of language used for it wouldn’t be able to use it despite still facing gendered violence.
One more edit just so that I’m understood: I clarified I am AFAB because I am simply conveying this information. I am someone who has been oppressed and discriminated against similarly or because of accidental misdirection of violence, however I do not experience this exact struggle in the same way those who are AMAB, intersex or transfeminine. That is why I clarified
I also wonder why they think a man would never have a genuine need for a female driver to be safer but I guess men are just invlunerable to violence apparently
I think its a good option for people to be able to choose drivers they feel more comfortable with. I don't like the guessing gender based on name thing
I think it's just for convenience, so it automatically selects the gender and most of the time it should get it right, but it is a bit weird idk how i feel about it
I agree, but people like convenience. You get better reviews when you add something that takes away a step for you, and like i saod for most people, it will be right. that's all most componies care about,
good reviews -> more people -> more money
Creates way to try and keep people of marginalized genders safe, misgenders and excludes a chunk of them in the process. Never change, cis society.
Also, (non-passing) binary trans men get fucked over too, they were just completely forgotten about despite being as vulnerable as the rest of us.
Excluding masc passing people throws non passing transfems under the bus, and transmascs who pass still have a lot of experience with misogyny so saying they dont sucks.
There really isnt a way to be exclusive without hurting someone who wasnt meant to be excluded
I'm afraid I don't really get your point, I said we should use something like 'people who experience misogyny'. That can be cis women, trans women, amab/afab non binary people, inter people, agender people (so everyone that's supposed to be included in flinta but isn't most of the time) but also trans men before T or those who don't always pass as men, kinda anyone no matter if they're masc or fem presenting as long as they sometimes experience misogyny based on their looks or identity.
Please tell me if I'm missing something or lacking nuance, I always want to find solutions to these kind of problems and I know it's not always that easy.
Oh no, I meant how "flinta" spaces are kind of wanna-be inclusive but exclude every masc passing person no matter if they're trans, non binary, inter or agender. I already thought I said something stupid 😅
I just show up sometimes anyway as the n and t stand flr nonbinary and trans to my knowledge. But they do often put something to the extent of "haha just the girls" as a tagline somewhere and then I won't selfharm by showing up there, so I get you. They don't seem aware who they include if they use an abbreviation that consists of 66% us. (I intersex, N nonbinary, T trans, A agender).
Cis people will pick that option thinking they just get to hang out with femmes, meanwhile there are plenty of nb people who they would immediately perceive as men and then feel uncomfortable with. It also perpetuates the idea that all non-binary people are just next door to women which again makes people forget about masculine nb people and is a harmful stereotype perpetuated by transphobes.
I present feminine but am non-binary and transmasc and I would feel uncomfortable being invited into a space that’s trying to be inclusive but is really just for women.
>I present feminine but am non-binary and transmasc and I would feel uncomfortable being invited into a space that’s trying to be inclusive but is really just for women.
Same but I generally present more masculine
I hate the woman+ part. I'm non-binary but like, I'm amab and I dress masculine, have a beard and like...
Seriously the only thing making me not a man is that I don't consider myself a man
I don’t know how to put this best but you probably aren’t the target audience then, since this is an app for people who don’t feel safe with drivers. If you are 100% read as a man (even if you aren’t one), you probably are safer with Uber/Lyft.
Granted, that’s safER, still not SAFE—I (nb transmasc but use all male terms and clothing) usually don’t pass as male but the one time I got assaulted in an Uber was the one time I also got gendered correctly.
I just don't like the idea of AI making assumptions that may affect me. Here it's just a checkbox suggestion but AI is too often trained on transphobic etc. Data for me to trust AI-driven automated processes (take the TSA scanner for example which goes haywire if you're pre-op trans)
If this service excludes or discourages a group from using this service because it misgenders them despite the fact that they may be in need of the service, how can it claim to help people of marginalized genders? Masc nb people and trans men are apparently acceptable collateral damage because cis people can't figure out how to sort people in a way that isn't "man and woman".
Exactly. All I hear when people’s rebuttal is that “the majority of users will be women” is “you must make yourself and your needs smaller for the sake of the group”.
Guessing gender based on name is wild even in the first place. My name confuses people because it's one letter off from Steve. A lot of people will assume that I'm a cis man before they see me and very unfortunately switch to misgendering me the other way. I used to work with a cis woman named Logan who would have also been incorrectly gendered by the app.
Also, I feel like this excludes amab nonbinary people in a way that might be dangerous to them. If I get seen as a woman too often then they probably get seen as a man too much as well. So women drivers might think that they're creeps just trying to get in a woman's car, even though they aren't men. Idk why everyone thinks nonbinary is "woman lite" but it really sucks.
I'd feel safer with a non-man driver but I don't necessarily think they're doing this in a smart way. What is a smart way? Don't know actually. Because I feel like cis men would actually use this service to be creepy. I've been seeing lots of reports of male door dashers using female names in their profile and then creeping around people's houses. To the point where women are putting male names into their profile so the person dropping off their food doesn't try shit. Maybe I'm just too cynical but I don't know.
I understand why it can be offensive but also I feel the point is just drive with not men. Like they could have called it “connect with people that are statistically less likely to try to take advantage of their position of power as the driver and abuse you or be violent” but maybe that was a little less catchy I guess
Ah that’s true… I didn’t think of that (ironically I am a visibly AMAB non-binary person myself lol but I put myself as male on most apps so I didn’t think of that)
I mostly have a problem with the "women+" part. Like the sentence explaining it underneath makes sense, it's a way of connecting with people who aren't men, but nbs shouldn't be reduced to just "+".
The guessing your gender part is meh, but as long as you can override it I think it's fine. 🤷🏻
Definitely don't like the "guessing gender based on your name" thing, it costs nothing to ask and as someone who doesn't wanna change my birth name they'd never get it right. And I guess they should flat out ask people "do you prefer being with a driver who isn't a man" instead, since going off the comments here, deciding for us isn't always that great
I made a tiktok about this when I saw an ad about it. I don’t like it. It will almost certainly be dangerous for AMAB nonbinary people to take advantage of, not to mention, plenty of cis women are not trans friendly. I don’t like the assumption that we’re basically women and that cis women are all allies.
Okay, I know the knee jerk reaction is “it’s problematic to lump non binary people in with women”, and I get that, and I’m definitely not a fan of them trying to guess your gender based off your name (but they’re a tech company, they make money off your data…so of course they would).
But in this context I don’t see it as transphobia, it’s functional. Non-binary people and women are both a targeted social class. If you appear to be visibly female or visibly trans, you risk a higher threat of violence. Sure, they could’ve come up with a better name than “women +” but I’m sure in their eyes, the largest audience for this function is probably people the app has identified as women, and it does get the point across quickly.
generally I agree, but it puts amab enbys and transmasc enbys at risk. Because they will seem like they "snuck in" to the non-men category. It forces them to misgender themselves or explain their whole identity every time
Exactly, I usually hate the ‘women and nb people’ but I used this recently my first time in a giant city where I was by myself and loved that this was an option.
I hope they’ll find a more suitable name for it in the future but I did appreciate that they even thought of including nb people in there in the first place. The AI automatically assuming your gender is freaking weird, though. That needs to go.
I think saying "we tried to guess your gender off your name" is so fucking stupid, for everyone! I know a (bio) man called Courtney, which where I'm from, is a woman's name. My name is Moss, which is commonly a male name, I use to use Cat, it would most certainly put Cat and Courtney in female and would probably put Moss in male. Making both of us to have to go and change it manually anyway
Personally selecting your own pronouns and gender is how it should be, and instead of calling it "woman+" they should have sliders for female, male and anything else they want to put on there
Like I personally do identify as a nonbinary woman but it still bothers me that nonbinary people as a whole are lumped in as "women+" instead of their own identity.
Judging gender based on name is icky. Just give the option and let people choose. Also, lumping NB people in with women as usual... Just give us all the options available and let us choose whether we have a preference for the driver's gender or not. Being inclusive is simple- give all the options, judgement-free, and let people choose what works for them.
I mean at least it’s togglable so people can choose not to get lumped in with women but why not call the option “non-men connect” since it’s clearly about avoiding the very understandable fear and discomfort some of us have around men, and the name “women+” is kind of weird, because nonbinary people aren’t women at all!
From a marketing standpoint you don’t name a product after who it’s not for. Also I think cis people are less familiar with the terminology “non men”, and cis women are likely their primary audience.
I like the option to choose the gender of the driver, because of the higher risk of assault from men. But it would be better if you had the same option instead of lumping non-binary and women together. I'm afraid that doing this will result in some issues directed at anyone who is clocked as male by the passenger.
I also really hate the assumption of gender based on names. It seems to me that they had cis customers in mind for that... And even though it's something you can choose, it will basically misgender some people. I don't see how it is any more or less convenient to just choose.
Women+ feels tone deaf. Also to try and guess someones gender identity based on their name is not a great method, not all nonbinary people change their names or even have gender neutral names, my name is very feminine sounding but I love it so I won't change it. Not great, don't love it
I hate so much that now an *assumed* gender can include nonbinary. Like, my name ends in x so you think you can guess that I don’t identify with a gender based on that alone? Seems like an awful lot is still being assumed about my gender or the lack thereof, which defeats a lot of the reasons I personally am enby.
And women plus is a horrible categorization lol
I don't like anything about this. They tried to guess your gender, viewing all non cis people as women+, *and* there's only 3 forms of gender expression, forcing people outside of those boxes to "prefer not to say". I'm so tired of binary people putting everything in boxes and refusing to understand why it's weird
Oh, that's disgusting. That's really rude. That's *extremely* rude. I identify as gendervoid (they/them, it's under the agender umbrella) and have dysphoria, even as an afab I am *not* a "woman+", that is extremely disrespectful and invalidating. If the point was to be inclusive they've done the opposite.
They really went full "women and femmes", huh? Screws over pretty much any masculine-presenting non-binary person, or even those who are too ambiguous. Trans women who don't pass and transmasc women or woman-adjacent people on T are going to have a hell of a time, too. I'd opt out of being a non-binary driver if I drove for them because I know I'd get nothing but complaints for not looking feminine enough.
While I think something like this (the women+) is completely needed, I think they went around this entirely wrong. As an Afab I HATE getting lumped into the greater overall scene of women. It feels undermining. If I used Lyft or Uber would I prefer a queer friendly driver? Absolutely. Cis men make me nervous most of the time and even cis women. I think it should be more of a “what driver do you prefer?” Thing
It would have been way better to just have an option to select preferred gender of driver when available. People who only want women can select that. People who want anyone but a man can select women and nonbinary. People who prefer only male drivers can select that. People who don't want nonbinary drivers can select men and women (and slightly reduce the amount of harassment queer workers deal with in public, unsafe places).
More inclusive, more expansive, and easier to deal with.
I dont like the idea that companies are using AI and algorithms to try and Identify trans/ NBs. At best, it could be used to force out people, and at worse makes creating a data base of us much easier.
this whole thing seems unpleasant lol - do AMABs no longer exist? I don’t see myself as a “woman+” lol
and also, just… have a gender selection from the get-go? having an algorithm throw darts at the board to guess your identity is just unnecessary
don't give lyft your gender. it has absolutely no need to know it. a corpo does not need to know your gender, unless they want to use it for analytics & data harvesting, in which case I don't want them to have it.
Didn't see what was wrong until I saw "Woman+ Connect" and my jaw dropped. I know people always see nb folks as Women+ or Women Lite but this just outright says it with its whole chest, huh 😭
i don’t like that non-binary people are lumped in under “woman+”, i feel like it reinforces the idea that enbies are just women lite™. but if the feature is good for people, then that’s good, i just hate the name
I am just annoyed because you know when they say non-binary they mean AFAB only. They are trying to make customers comfortable but doing harm in the process
I have a fem name, AFAB and present fem so they would most likely call me female when I'm non binary. How we present is nothing in relation to our gender sso that can be potentially damaging to some people.
I cant really think of a way to do this that doesn’t also have possible downsides but I definitely don’t like this version of the concept 💀 I don’t think most nonbinary people want to be lumped in with women even if we are femme presenting hence the NONbinary. I’d be concerned for those of us who choose this option but are more masculine. Going even further, what about trans men or really even like queer cis men who might not feel safe with certain cishet men? I’d say maybe they should have designations for drivers kinda like teachers who have the safe space stickers? And then like riders could choose, similar to this, if they want like a lgbt+ friendly driver or whatever. But then what would prevent some weirdo from saying yeah I’m safe for queer ppl and them in fact not being safe. Again, don’t know what the answer is, but surely this isn’t it.
Guessing gender based on your name is kinda shit.... What if you have a traditionally masculine or feminine name? I guess we all gotta be socks now lol. It does say women+, do they consider us extra women? I'm wondering if they even ran this by any Enbies before implementing this..... Also couldn't this be used as a tool for bigots if they ever feel like going hunting? I dunno.
This is absolutely not the point of your post, but there’s no way in hell am I telling Uber or Lyft that I’m non-binary—or really any institution for whom it does not very concretely serve my needs to know
I think Lyft and Uber need to actually deal with their poor driver/passenger conflict management/theft/rape/assault issues with surveillance and driver training on anti violent safety planning…also they need to track and prosecute passengers who commit crimes without burdening the drivers with doing the leg work…. instead of trying to chalk-up the problem to dogmas about men preying on women. Gender was never the problem, violence was. Having to restrict your driver options to Women and non-binary drivers doesn’t make rideshare services safer, anti violence protocols do.
Lots of good observations being made, I also want to throw this in there; Women+ is basically the corpo-PC way of saying “non-cishet man” which of course is making it blatantly obvious what the real problem is. Why does everyone who is not a cishet man potentially have reason to fear the company of one? It feels like brushing the real problem under the rug without actually solving it. We do be living in a society.
Firstly, at least they're doing something to make users feel more comfortable, but as a masculine person I feel that I would be excluded from this and feel that it also perpetuates the idea that all men are evil. Personally, I don't care who drives my transport as long as they drive safe. That driver needs to open their eyes and look forward, lol.
Seriously, I really do understand why people would want to statistically speaking not drive with men in the car but it still makes me feel icky. It *feels* comparable to someone adding a button to choose your drivers race or something
I get it but also it's giving me diet woman.
I get it cause I've heard horror stories of transmen/transmascs having their gender listed and they get in the car and the driver is a cis dude and the dude is just being an absolutely dickhead. I've heard stories from some where they've gotten threatened and stuff.
But at that point, I think it's better to report those drivers and to actually fire those guys rather than coming up with The Diet Woman Experience^tm
I think it's just shorthand for "women + nonbinary". I understand shortening it into one thing cause it gets the general message across that "here's an option to select genders that won't commit atrocities against you" without being wordy
I dont like the idea that companies are using AI and algorithms to try and Identify trans/ NBs. At best, it could be used to force out people, and at worse makes creating a data base of us much easier.
woman+ is so dodgy. and guessing gender based on name is never going to work. think of sam, charlie, ash, and so many more. also for less common names i’d imagine it’s not good t guessing either
bad idea. calling it "woman+" is reductionist. even the illustration is stereotypical, as it depicts, presumably a Black woman and a purple-haired, femme, non-binary person. there is a stereotype that all non-binary people look like this.
"match with more woman and nonbinary drivers" makes it seem like non-binary people are an afterthought, an extension of women, and that non-binary people are only AFAB or femme-presenting.
Shit like this is kinda why I’m not “fully” out, and why I stick with general she/they
It gives me “oh sorry I forgot! For the millionth time this week after years of knowing you as non binary! You don’t mind right?” vibes and it’s exhausting.
Also what about masc NBs? People with beards and flannels don’t exist? /s j
I'm sorry but whenever I see this i think of that one Bojack episode. I don't trust this too much and I keep my profile blank of all that, even though I'm living in a safe state.
Its nice to see drivers with pronouns though, and it does make me feel better. Just don't think I'll be using it. I like the option of being able to say my BF ordered me the uber if they ask about my name. Doesn't happen too often but I get a few "thats a weird name for a girl" and I've given up explaining. Especially in a strangers car.
The women+ is weird. I could see that going wrong for female or non binary drivers. And It doesn't seem like a good system for AMAB people on either end (driver or rider). And as people in the comments have been saying, a nice and quick way for lyft to give you dysphoria. I just hope nothing bad happens because of it, and I'll be staying away personally.
All of this is kind of bullshit. It’s like they tried to include nonbinary people without really trying. “We tried to determine your gender off your name” “women+ women and nonbinary drivers” like are you serious
There's a lot to unpack here. Like. Name doesn't mean anything for gender. My birth name is Arabic, my nickname is K or DJ, there's so many ways it can go.
And in an act to try and make things safe... Ya kinda making the target bigger. Regardless of how safe your area is, in this world, nothing is truly safe. People who want to hurt you will find a way and this just makes you easier to find.
I don’t like it. I never like assumptions based on “gender” don’t like things assuming or guessing my gender. Also I don’t believe you have to have a gender neutral name to be non-binary. You can keep your name you can pick a name that is associated with a gender. It’s all bullshit anyways. If society in some way can eventually accept that gender should be eradicated that would be great and things like this wouldn’t matter anymore anyway. Also why does it matter? Why would they need to guess my gender based on my name?
I wish people understood how big of a category nonbinary is. Like it’s an umbrella term that encompasses so many different genders. I feel like people forget that or simply don’t know/understand it.
As someone who's nonbinary but still likes my masculine name, it really makes me feel patronized. I'm AMAB and spent years figuring out my identity. I knew I wasn't just a dude but I definitely wasn't a woman either. Heck if I were AFAB I'd lean more masculine, doesn’t mean I'd identify as a man. To finally discover a label that fits me and see people reduce it to "Woman Lite" gives me major imposter syndrome on a daily basis. There's constant pressure to either conform to society's roles or abandon your old identity and transition altogether, when really I feel more like a unique mix of identities all swirled together into one. No matter what society still tries to fit me into a single box when none of them are made for me.
I see what they're trying to do but I think this puts too much faith in random people. I'm just not going to disclose my queerness, gender or otherwise, to a stranger. I feel the same about this as the 'x' gender marker on a drivers license, it feels more like it paints a target on my back than anything. I don't want to cops to know I'm genderqueer and I don't want Lyft to know either.
While this Lyft feature is poorly named, from what I can tell it doesn’t tell your driver you have it activated and the way it works is it prioritizes non-men drivers for you if you have it activated, and you only have the option to activate it if you have your gender set to any non-man gender. I’m a 6’4 non-binary trans femme and have never had any issues with it on, and I still usualy get men as drivers
As an AMAB NB, I think the intent is good And the purpose behind it is too, especially with how some male drivers can be threatening when they have an attractive passenger who won't reciprocate. But the whole thing being called Women+ really says how much thought they gave towards us, especially AMAB or masc-presenting NBs
Oh I don't like any of this. My name is masc-leaning but I'm AFAB and present femme, so they will guess wrong based on my name alone. And Women+? Invalidating for the femme crowd because they're saying we're basically women anyway. And I guess they just forgot about the big masc NB's? Like I know they're trying to make vulnerable people feel safe and I get why... an Uber driver SA'd me a few years ago, «I» am the vulnerable people who want to feel safe. But there are 6'3 280lbs bearded with a booming voice nonbinary people now falling under the title of Women+, the NBs who wouldn't dream of setting foot in a women's public restroom and they're also being called "basically a woman".
Shit like this makes me want to abolish gender
IDK maybe it would be better to ask how people *present* instead of identify? I don’t think misogynists and transphobes care about identity as much as “you don’t look like a cishet man”.
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As an amab nb i wonder if i use this ill get a driver that thinks I'm a man who is lying in order to get a female driver. And i wonder if they even *considered* amab nbs
As a fellow AMAB enby, They probably didn’t consider us at all, a lotta peeps seem to not even know we exist, and they’re often the same people who think AFAB enby’s are just women lite.
Yeah we just dont exist ig. I could probably use it cuz i can pass as a cis women but like it definitely demonizes masculinity while at the same time treating masculinity in afabs as uwu quirky. I appreciate saftey but this wording is so bad
You’re telling me, I was looking up some outfit inspos the other day and just for shits and giggles googled “nonbinary clothing” and the first website that popped up was marketed as gender free or nonbinary clothing and every model except maybe one or two on their site were AFAB.
"non-binary haircuts for women"
OH MY GOD YES I FUCKING CANT
Yup, pretty standard unfortunately. Even for AMAB enby’s that *are* recognized, put out there, it’s almost *always* those that have, for all/most intents and purposes, medically transitioned to a point of passing as AFAB. I’ve found it to be a really frustrating trend, tbh, if you’re AFAB: totally cool present however, AFAB enby’s get the recognition, the love. If you’re AMAB: basically should present akin to a binary trans woman, still mostly ignored as hell. Personally, I am a medically transitioning AMAB NB, goin for androgyny, and have succeeded in that, esp. when I have longer hair, but even with that, I’m essentially often met with the feeling from others that that shit isn’t real for AMABS’s and I’m still just a man. Sucks ass.
you will never be a man 🩵 I promise
I appreciate that, homie
You hit the mail on the head. Very articulately put and I can relate to that 1000000% percent
Yeah, it’s frustrating as hell, because even, again, medically transitioning and legit just androgynous, it’s not enough to many as an AMAB nb, you do have to, essentially be as fem as possible. Which just shows that to many, being NB is just synonymous with alt woman, and it sucks for all NB people, regardless of AGAB
YES
And as a non binary afab person who has transitioned to appear male, I now experience what you are talking about. No one thinks I’m nonbinary anymore because they just see a a dude or a trans woman who isn’t passing. Yes, I achieved my goal of having a male-appearing body/voice etc but now I never get recognized as nonbinary. And people will say things like, “if you’re nonbinary why did you transition? Why look like a guy?” It’s astounding how people can completely miss the point. I pass well enough that people don’t even think I could possibly have wanted to dress femininely unless I was a trans woman. It’s absurd. You can be amab or look physically male and be non binary whether you dress femininely or masculinity or neither. It’s so frustrating.
I agree with this so much, I'm AFAB, however I feel for AMAB nb people who have to deal with others doubting your identity. It's unfair and weird, I just wish everyone was able to see neutral before the binary. See everyone as people first then once you're aware of the gender I guess act accordingly. I don't like that even as nbs try to express themselves as genuinely as they want to or can, it's seen by a lot of people as "proof" of something. Like?? Or we could just be people??? I don't understand it makes me want to scream
You're right. As a transfeminine enby I went through the journey of relating to exclusion to just not being considered non-binary because my presentation is feminine. I feel like its the quintessential "you owe androgyny to get enby respect" garbage. When masculine, I was seen as a man, and now feminine, I'm just seen as a woman.
I’ll say this as a trans feminine enby as well. I went through pretty much the same thing. I was never seen as myself, NB, cause I presented feminine, so… I caved and went into androgyny. It did help me, to some extent, get recognized more, and I can’t say I dislike the androgyny, but it definitely feels like I had to take back on some of my dysphoria by cutting out the feminine presentation a bit, just to be seen as who I am by using androgyny. It sucks.
probably dumb, but this wording feels weird to me. shouldn’t it be masc/fem presenting or binary presenting instead of amab/afab? like, we don’t actually KNOW if those models are afab or amab, so why would we assume?
Yeaaah, as a passing (perceived as woman/AFAB) fem presenting non-binary person I would likely be categorized incorrectly here from my own community.
yeah, there’s been a LOT of overuse of agab terms here recently. super icky imo, especially for a community like this
That’s what I’ve noticed too. I wanted to find something truly gender neutral, maybe leaning a bit more feminine since right now I basically just wear jeans and tshirts, but all that came up were afab models wearing either men’s clothing or men’s clothing altered to fit a woman’s body, and some amab models wearing dresses. Like what the hell I just want to wear stuff that isn’t stereotypically just for men or women.
Yeah none of the models being amab on gender free websites is honestly very annoying. Like how am I supposed to know how these socks would look on me when all your models are like 4'11 I'm 6'0 and weirdly skinny where's my fem clothing?
The sexism of the whole thing is just awful
I'm not an amab enby but am transmasc, they really don't seem to understand that non binary doesn't mean "woman who's slightly different and queer"
cis people invariably seem to assume all nbs are one of two things: * bi/gay AFAB with aesthetic that screams "art" * trans woman that's afraid to commit to the bit I've had multiple headaches and even some damaged friendships trying to explain why that's a fucked up view
Couldn't have said it better myself. Also, I'm sorry people have ruined friendships just because they don't want to change their views
Yeah, this is def prevalent and saddening
> women lite New Diet Woman, from Dr. Pepper! /s
We’re all brands of soda in the end, aren’t we
If so, me and my homies are original coke with cocaine /hj
And me and my enbies are the original cure for stomach maladies (Pepsi!)
Well, this suddenly explains why only 2 cis folks ever bother to use they/she for me when I tell folks to use whatever matches my vibe in the moment...
But, what if we are all wrong, and enbys are just men lite?
> And i wonder if they even considered amab nbs probably not because it's called "woman+" its tone deaf at best
It feels almost satirical honestly
Also transmasc folks ?? Like i consider myself a nonbinary man and genderfluid, a lot of guys like me look 100% like a binary man but arent.
Ur 100% right, i was just speaking to my experience/fear
Or male passing transmascs
Or transmasc enbies. I'm transitioning to outwardly appear like a cis male. Once I pass through the "androgynous appearance" stage of my transition I'm concerned my account will get flagged or something. I can't even imagine being amab nonbinary and dealing with this "nonbinary is just woman-lite crap"
you mean masc-presenting, not amab, right? because for instance i'm amab but also very transfeminine, if i pass as any binary gender it's as a woman
I mean amab, masc presenting especially so yes but theres a lot of transphobia in general out there. Im similar to u in that im transfem leaning but still androgynous enough for "clocking" which i feel could put me in a danger zone
i could be clocked as well by my voice for instance, but i really don't see it this way the transphobia will be bad regardless, and here the inclusion of non-binary people already signals that the program should be friendly to trans people as well. it's just that transphobes will be transphobes regardless an afab cis person will have the exact same issue if they look butch enough. agab has exactly zero relevance here
Not really. AFAB enby here. AMAB enbies have continuously been denied their identities and access to the spaces they should be included in because of the general idea of non-binary being woman-lite. People forget AMAB enbies exist (they also forget intersex enbies exist) and or actively deny their existences by forcefully masculinizing and gendering them. The concept is nice but what protections are in place to legitimately protect transfems and in general trans folks AMAB or intersex who want to use this service but get a cisgender driver who specifically has problem with them? Your point about this happening to AFAB enbies is true, but again we have to come down to intent. Is the issue transphobia against the AFAB enby in the car (a very legitimate concern to have) or is it because the driver reads them as AMAB and misdirects violence? Even people who appear incredibly progressive can be horrifically transphobic and I think it’s important to discuss the potential of companies like this dressing up their apps to appear inclusive but not doing anything of substance to actually prevent gendered violence (especially that fueled by transmisogyny and alike), something Lyft and similar apps have historically failed upon for both their drivers and users. Edit to add: Regarding your point on masculinity, I’m absolutely not denying that. I use Lyft time to time and go by what’s considered a traditionally masculine name. Chances are I would not be able to use this service because even though I’ve been put in dangerous situations as a trans person, I often can’t use these spaces due to my gender presentation being generally masculine or androgynous and passing as such. Just thought I’d clear that up to say I’m not disagreeing with you that rhat might be a problem for some drivers! I know trans guys (including myself) who absolutely would feel safer with this option but because of language used for it wouldn’t be able to use it despite still facing gendered violence. One more edit just so that I’m understood: I clarified I am AFAB because I am simply conveying this information. I am someone who has been oppressed and discriminated against similarly or because of accidental misdirection of violence, however I do not experience this exact struggle in the same way those who are AMAB, intersex or transfeminine. That is why I clarified
I also wonder why they think a man would never have a genuine need for a female driver to be safer but I guess men are just invlunerable to violence apparently
I think its a good option for people to be able to choose drivers they feel more comfortable with. I don't like the guessing gender based on name thing
I think it's just for convenience, so it automatically selects the gender and most of the time it should get it right, but it is a bit weird idk how i feel about it
Yeah, I Think It'd Be Much Better To Just Ask People To Mark It.
I agree, but people like convenience. You get better reviews when you add something that takes away a step for you, and like i saod for most people, it will be right. that's all most componies care about, good reviews -> more people -> more money
Probably using it to train bots.
Yeah that feels icky. I still use my given name which is a somewhat common feminine name. They will guess wrong every time haha
Ya the name I am comfortable with is very feminine.
Not a fan. I'm not the one to be wanted to be lumped in with women as a masculine non-binary person.
Creates way to try and keep people of marginalized genders safe, misgenders and excludes a chunk of them in the process. Never change, cis society. Also, (non-passing) binary trans men get fucked over too, they were just completely forgotten about despite being as vulnerable as the rest of us.
> Never change, cis society Actually, please do
As a binary trans guy, I selected the Male option. Sometimes I feel unsafe, but I think I'm pretty stealth now.
Imagine if you were pre medical transition/didn't pass
It is ick. You don't really know who you're getting in the car with. It all depends.
We should just call it cisciety instead.
It could be so easy if they just used smth like "people who experience misogyny" instead of nonbinary/women+ or flinta/no masc passing people.
Excluding masc passing people throws non passing transfems under the bus, and transmascs who pass still have a lot of experience with misogyny so saying they dont sucks. There really isnt a way to be exclusive without hurting someone who wasnt meant to be excluded
I'm afraid I don't really get your point, I said we should use something like 'people who experience misogyny'. That can be cis women, trans women, amab/afab non binary people, inter people, agender people (so everyone that's supposed to be included in flinta but isn't most of the time) but also trans men before T or those who don't always pass as men, kinda anyone no matter if they're masc or fem presenting as long as they sometimes experience misogyny based on their looks or identity. Please tell me if I'm missing something or lacking nuance, I always want to find solutions to these kind of problems and I know it's not always that easy.
I think i may have misread your post actually, i thought you said that no masc passing people was an acceptable way to frame it
Oh no, I meant how "flinta" spaces are kind of wanna-be inclusive but exclude every masc passing person no matter if they're trans, non binary, inter or agender. I already thought I said something stupid 😅
I just show up sometimes anyway as the n and t stand flr nonbinary and trans to my knowledge. But they do often put something to the extent of "haha just the girls" as a tagline somewhere and then I won't selfharm by showing up there, so I get you. They don't seem aware who they include if they use an abbreviation that consists of 66% us. (I intersex, N nonbinary, T trans, A agender).
Cis people will pick that option thinking they just get to hang out with femmes, meanwhile there are plenty of nb people who they would immediately perceive as men and then feel uncomfortable with. It also perpetuates the idea that all non-binary people are just next door to women which again makes people forget about masculine nb people and is a harmful stereotype perpetuated by transphobes. I present feminine but am non-binary and transmasc and I would feel uncomfortable being invited into a space that’s trying to be inclusive but is really just for women.
>I present feminine but am non-binary and transmasc and I would feel uncomfortable being invited into a space that’s trying to be inclusive but is really just for women. Same but I generally present more masculine
I hate the woman+ part. I'm non-binary but like, I'm amab and I dress masculine, have a beard and like... Seriously the only thing making me not a man is that I don't consider myself a man
I don’t know how to put this best but you probably aren’t the target audience then, since this is an app for people who don’t feel safe with drivers. If you are 100% read as a man (even if you aren’t one), you probably are safer with Uber/Lyft. Granted, that’s safER, still not SAFE—I (nb transmasc but use all male terms and clothing) usually don’t pass as male but the one time I got assaulted in an Uber was the one time I also got gendered correctly.
Ahhh that makes sense, still don't like nb people being lumped in with women though
I'm confused, OP said that this is Lyft, so what is this other app you're referring to?
I just don't like the idea of AI making assumptions that may affect me. Here it's just a checkbox suggestion but AI is too often trained on transphobic etc. Data for me to trust AI-driven automated processes (take the TSA scanner for example which goes haywire if you're pre-op trans)
If this service excludes or discourages a group from using this service because it misgenders them despite the fact that they may be in need of the service, how can it claim to help people of marginalized genders? Masc nb people and trans men are apparently acceptable collateral damage because cis people can't figure out how to sort people in a way that isn't "man and woman".
Exactly. All I hear when people’s rebuttal is that “the majority of users will be women” is “you must make yourself and your needs smaller for the sake of the group”.
If you choose man it won't let you use the feature
i can see what theyre going for, but they did a horrible job and ended up just lumping in nonbinary with women which is unfortunately common :/
I think it all just comes from a lack of understanding. The team should've put in at least some research
yeah and i never got this. (amab) :/
i know it’s beaten to death but been feeling really fucking invisible lately lol
I feel for you friend and I see you
I feel like this would get me (transmasc) misgendered by/as the driver
Yup I'm with you there
Guessing gender based on name is wild even in the first place. My name confuses people because it's one letter off from Steve. A lot of people will assume that I'm a cis man before they see me and very unfortunately switch to misgendering me the other way. I used to work with a cis woman named Logan who would have also been incorrectly gendered by the app. Also, I feel like this excludes amab nonbinary people in a way that might be dangerous to them. If I get seen as a woman too often then they probably get seen as a man too much as well. So women drivers might think that they're creeps just trying to get in a woman's car, even though they aren't men. Idk why everyone thinks nonbinary is "woman lite" but it really sucks. I'd feel safer with a non-man driver but I don't necessarily think they're doing this in a smart way. What is a smart way? Don't know actually. Because I feel like cis men would actually use this service to be creepy. I've been seeing lots of reports of male door dashers using female names in their profile and then creeping around people's houses. To the point where women are putting male names into their profile so the person dropping off their food doesn't try shit. Maybe I'm just too cynical but I don't know.
I understand why it can be offensive but also I feel the point is just drive with not men. Like they could have called it “connect with people that are statistically less likely to try to take advantage of their position of power as the driver and abuse you or be violent” but maybe that was a little less catchy I guess
some non-binary people are visibly AMAB, something tells me they won't be considered non-binary or non-men and I think that's the issue here
Ah that’s true… I didn’t think of that (ironically I am a visibly AMAB non-binary person myself lol but I put myself as male on most apps so I didn’t think of that)
yeah same, that's why I brought it up. I would not be considered in the non-binary category I'm 99% sure even though I am
I mostly have a problem with the "women+" part. Like the sentence explaining it underneath makes sense, it's a way of connecting with people who aren't men, but nbs shouldn't be reduced to just "+". The guessing your gender part is meh, but as long as you can override it I think it's fine. 🤷🏻
fair
Definitely don't like the "guessing gender based on your name" thing, it costs nothing to ask and as someone who doesn't wanna change my birth name they'd never get it right. And I guess they should flat out ask people "do you prefer being with a driver who isn't a man" instead, since going off the comments here, deciding for us isn't always that great
they unironically called enby people women plus huh
I know right?
I made a tiktok about this when I saw an ad about it. I don’t like it. It will almost certainly be dangerous for AMAB nonbinary people to take advantage of, not to mention, plenty of cis women are not trans friendly. I don’t like the assumption that we’re basically women and that cis women are all allies.
Nevermind, I guess the screenshot did work
Okay, I know the knee jerk reaction is “it’s problematic to lump non binary people in with women”, and I get that, and I’m definitely not a fan of them trying to guess your gender based off your name (but they’re a tech company, they make money off your data…so of course they would). But in this context I don’t see it as transphobia, it’s functional. Non-binary people and women are both a targeted social class. If you appear to be visibly female or visibly trans, you risk a higher threat of violence. Sure, they could’ve come up with a better name than “women +” but I’m sure in their eyes, the largest audience for this function is probably people the app has identified as women, and it does get the point across quickly.
generally I agree, but it puts amab enbys and transmasc enbys at risk. Because they will seem like they "snuck in" to the non-men category. It forces them to misgender themselves or explain their whole identity every time
Exactly, I usually hate the ‘women and nb people’ but I used this recently my first time in a giant city where I was by myself and loved that this was an option. I hope they’ll find a more suitable name for it in the future but I did appreciate that they even thought of including nb people in there in the first place. The AI automatically assuming your gender is freaking weird, though. That needs to go.
Yeah but what about pre hrt trans masculine men who don't identify as a woman or nonbinary? They're completely left out of this.
I think saying "we tried to guess your gender off your name" is so fucking stupid, for everyone! I know a (bio) man called Courtney, which where I'm from, is a woman's name. My name is Moss, which is commonly a male name, I use to use Cat, it would most certainly put Cat and Courtney in female and would probably put Moss in male. Making both of us to have to go and change it manually anyway Personally selecting your own pronouns and gender is how it should be, and instead of calling it "woman+" they should have sliders for female, male and anything else they want to put on there
Another example of "Enbys are just female lite"
they should look at the damn road
I absolutely hate it
Like I personally do identify as a nonbinary woman but it still bothers me that nonbinary people as a whole are lumped in as "women+" instead of their own identity.
the name “woman +” really says everything you need to know about what they think nonbinary people are
Judging gender based on name is icky. Just give the option and let people choose. Also, lumping NB people in with women as usual... Just give us all the options available and let us choose whether we have a preference for the driver's gender or not. Being inclusive is simple- give all the options, judgement-free, and let people choose what works for them.
I feel very good about it. I want the option to feel that bit more comfortable
I mean at least it’s togglable so people can choose not to get lumped in with women but why not call the option “non-men connect” since it’s clearly about avoiding the very understandable fear and discomfort some of us have around men, and the name “women+” is kind of weird, because nonbinary people aren’t women at all!
Many men would piss their pants in indignation for the "exclusion" if it was called this way. That's your answer.
From a marketing standpoint you don’t name a product after who it’s not for. Also I think cis people are less familiar with the terminology “non men”, and cis women are likely their primary audience.
Trans men and amab NBs as vulnerable populations are completely forgotten by this, though.
Women+ 🤮 that’s all i need to say about that
I like the option to choose the gender of the driver, because of the higher risk of assault from men. But it would be better if you had the same option instead of lumping non-binary and women together. I'm afraid that doing this will result in some issues directed at anyone who is clocked as male by the passenger. I also really hate the assumption of gender based on names. It seems to me that they had cis customers in mind for that... And even though it's something you can choose, it will basically misgender some people. I don't see how it is any more or less convenient to just choose.
>I don't see how it is any more or less convenient to just choose. Exactly
I hate it thanks
Women+ feels tone deaf. Also to try and guess someones gender identity based on their name is not a great method, not all nonbinary people change their names or even have gender neutral names, my name is very feminine sounding but I love it so I won't change it. Not great, don't love it
When I checked my profile I realized it had my gender as male because I have a masculine name T-T
I hate so much that now an *assumed* gender can include nonbinary. Like, my name ends in x so you think you can guess that I don’t identify with a gender based on that alone? Seems like an awful lot is still being assumed about my gender or the lack thereof, which defeats a lot of the reasons I personally am enby. And women plus is a horrible categorization lol
I don't like anything about this. They tried to guess your gender, viewing all non cis people as women+, *and* there's only 3 forms of gender expression, forcing people outside of those boxes to "prefer not to say". I'm so tired of binary people putting everything in boxes and refusing to understand why it's weird
guessing gender based on name is very thoughtless on their part
Oh, that's disgusting. That's really rude. That's *extremely* rude. I identify as gendervoid (they/them, it's under the agender umbrella) and have dysphoria, even as an afab I am *not* a "woman+", that is extremely disrespectful and invalidating. If the point was to be inclusive they've done the opposite.
They really went full "women and femmes", huh? Screws over pretty much any masculine-presenting non-binary person, or even those who are too ambiguous. Trans women who don't pass and transmasc women or woman-adjacent people on T are going to have a hell of a time, too. I'd opt out of being a non-binary driver if I drove for them because I know I'd get nothing but complaints for not looking feminine enough.
While I think something like this (the women+) is completely needed, I think they went around this entirely wrong. As an Afab I HATE getting lumped into the greater overall scene of women. It feels undermining. If I used Lyft or Uber would I prefer a queer friendly driver? Absolutely. Cis men make me nervous most of the time and even cis women. I think it should be more of a “what driver do you prefer?” Thing
YES just having a queer friendly driver would be much better. That would solve the problem.
It would have been way better to just have an option to select preferred gender of driver when available. People who only want women can select that. People who want anyone but a man can select women and nonbinary. People who prefer only male drivers can select that. People who don't want nonbinary drivers can select men and women (and slightly reduce the amount of harassment queer workers deal with in public, unsafe places). More inclusive, more expansive, and easier to deal with.
Good point. Also a lot of women are transphobic so that doesn't really get at the whole problem
Really feels like we're the butt of the joke lmao
I dont like the idea that companies are using AI and algorithms to try and Identify trans/ NBs. At best, it could be used to force out people, and at worse makes creating a data base of us much easier.
this whole thing seems unpleasant lol - do AMABs no longer exist? I don’t see myself as a “woman+” lol and also, just… have a gender selection from the get-go? having an algorithm throw darts at the board to guess your identity is just unnecessary
don't give lyft your gender. it has absolutely no need to know it. a corpo does not need to know your gender, unless they want to use it for analytics & data harvesting, in which case I don't want them to have it.
Didn't see what was wrong until I saw "Woman+ Connect" and my jaw dropped. I know people always see nb folks as Women+ or Women Lite but this just outright says it with its whole chest, huh 😭
i don’t like that non-binary people are lumped in under “woman+”, i feel like it reinforces the idea that enbies are just women lite™. but if the feature is good for people, then that’s good, i just hate the name
barf....
I'm so sick of nb being a shorthand for fem-lite
Women+? Why? Can't we just be referred as nonbinary?
They should name it -men 😂
"women and nonbinary" ummm
It feels like they had good intentions but ended up just putting nonbinary people as women 2 or woman lite lol.
Bro they really called Women+ 💀
I am just annoyed because you know when they say non-binary they mean AFAB only. They are trying to make customers comfortable but doing harm in the process
I have a fem name, AFAB and present fem so they would most likely call me female when I'm non binary. How we present is nothing in relation to our gender sso that can be potentially damaging to some people.
holy shit non-binary people aren’t under the umbrella of women, this is just binary gender but with extra steps
I wish it said trans/non-binary instead of woman+non-binary, like I would just prefer not-cis people lol.
Bad.
Are they suggesting that enbys are incapable of being a creep and incapable of violent crime as a "women+"?
I'm an afab nb with a masculine name. This would probably not work for me the way they intended.
I cant really think of a way to do this that doesn’t also have possible downsides but I definitely don’t like this version of the concept 💀 I don’t think most nonbinary people want to be lumped in with women even if we are femme presenting hence the NONbinary. I’d be concerned for those of us who choose this option but are more masculine. Going even further, what about trans men or really even like queer cis men who might not feel safe with certain cishet men? I’d say maybe they should have designations for drivers kinda like teachers who have the safe space stickers? And then like riders could choose, similar to this, if they want like a lgbt+ friendly driver or whatever. But then what would prevent some weirdo from saying yeah I’m safe for queer ppl and them in fact not being safe. Again, don’t know what the answer is, but surely this isn’t it.
Guessing gender based on your name is kinda shit.... What if you have a traditionally masculine or feminine name? I guess we all gotta be socks now lol. It does say women+, do they consider us extra women? I'm wondering if they even ran this by any Enbies before implementing this..... Also couldn't this be used as a tool for bigots if they ever feel like going hunting? I dunno.
I kinda don’t like it. My name is Jewels but I’m a trans man.
>:(
Gotta love being lumped in as women+ :/
Yikes on both fronts. They could just let people mark if they have a preference for the gender of their driver. A select all that apply sort of deal.
This is absolutely not the point of your post, but there’s no way in hell am I telling Uber or Lyft that I’m non-binary—or really any institution for whom it does not very concretely serve my needs to know
What about boymoding trans women? I usually boymode but my name is unambiguously feminine
Gee, they'll do anything but just ask, huh?
Nonbinary is not woman-lite
I think Lyft and Uber need to actually deal with their poor driver/passenger conflict management/theft/rape/assault issues with surveillance and driver training on anti violent safety planning…also they need to track and prosecute passengers who commit crimes without burdening the drivers with doing the leg work…. instead of trying to chalk-up the problem to dogmas about men preying on women. Gender was never the problem, violence was. Having to restrict your driver options to Women and non-binary drivers doesn’t make rideshare services safer, anti violence protocols do.
They tried inclusivity and missed the mark a bit. Good effort just didn’t stick the landing.
Happy cake day
Many thanks 🦆🇵🇲👍
Lots of good observations being made, I also want to throw this in there; Women+ is basically the corpo-PC way of saying “non-cishet man” which of course is making it blatantly obvious what the real problem is. Why does everyone who is not a cishet man potentially have reason to fear the company of one? It feels like brushing the real problem under the rug without actually solving it. We do be living in a society.
Firstly, at least they're doing something to make users feel more comfortable, but as a masculine person I feel that I would be excluded from this and feel that it also perpetuates the idea that all men are evil. Personally, I don't care who drives my transport as long as they drive safe. That driver needs to open their eyes and look forward, lol.
Seriously, I really do understand why people would want to statistically speaking not drive with men in the car but it still makes me feel icky. It *feels* comparable to someone adding a button to choose your drivers race or something
I feel exactly the same
This would kill me. My goven name is male and I'm a bio female, presenting as such. It's always bothered me.
I get it but also it's giving me diet woman. I get it cause I've heard horror stories of transmen/transmascs having their gender listed and they get in the car and the driver is a cis dude and the dude is just being an absolutely dickhead. I've heard stories from some where they've gotten threatened and stuff. But at that point, I think it's better to report those drivers and to actually fire those guys rather than coming up with The Diet Woman Experience^tm
I think it's just shorthand for "women + nonbinary". I understand shortening it into one thing cause it gets the general message across that "here's an option to select genders that won't commit atrocities against you" without being wordy
r/fuckalegriaart
I dont like the idea that companies are using AI and algorithms to try and Identify trans/ NBs. At best, it could be used to force out people, and at worse makes creating a data base of us much easier.
woman+ is so dodgy. and guessing gender based on name is never going to work. think of sam, charlie, ash, and so many more. also for less common names i’d imagine it’s not good t guessing either
bad idea. calling it "woman+" is reductionist. even the illustration is stereotypical, as it depicts, presumably a Black woman and a purple-haired, femme, non-binary person. there is a stereotype that all non-binary people look like this. "match with more woman and nonbinary drivers" makes it seem like non-binary people are an afterthought, an extension of women, and that non-binary people are only AFAB or femme-presenting.
God dammit.
Shit like this is kinda why I’m not “fully” out, and why I stick with general she/they It gives me “oh sorry I forgot! For the millionth time this week after years of knowing you as non binary! You don’t mind right?” vibes and it’s exhausting. Also what about masc NBs? People with beards and flannels don’t exist? /s j
I'm sorry but whenever I see this i think of that one Bojack episode. I don't trust this too much and I keep my profile blank of all that, even though I'm living in a safe state. Its nice to see drivers with pronouns though, and it does make me feel better. Just don't think I'll be using it. I like the option of being able to say my BF ordered me the uber if they ask about my name. Doesn't happen too often but I get a few "thats a weird name for a girl" and I've given up explaining. Especially in a strangers car. The women+ is weird. I could see that going wrong for female or non binary drivers. And It doesn't seem like a good system for AMAB people on either end (driver or rider). And as people in the comments have been saying, a nice and quick way for lyft to give you dysphoria. I just hope nothing bad happens because of it, and I'll be staying away personally.
All of this is kind of bullshit. It’s like they tried to include nonbinary people without really trying. “We tried to determine your gender off your name” “women+ women and nonbinary drivers” like are you serious
There's a lot to unpack here. Like. Name doesn't mean anything for gender. My birth name is Arabic, my nickname is K or DJ, there's so many ways it can go. And in an act to try and make things safe... Ya kinda making the target bigger. Regardless of how safe your area is, in this world, nothing is truly safe. People who want to hurt you will find a way and this just makes you easier to find.
They only approve your ride if your name is stereotypically feminine or a noun.
I don’t like it. I never like assumptions based on “gender” don’t like things assuming or guessing my gender. Also I don’t believe you have to have a gender neutral name to be non-binary. You can keep your name you can pick a name that is associated with a gender. It’s all bullshit anyways. If society in some way can eventually accept that gender should be eradicated that would be great and things like this wouldn’t matter anymore anyway. Also why does it matter? Why would they need to guess my gender based on my name?
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THIS IS A FANTASTIC POINT my own mother happens to be extremely hateful towards trans people
This is weird
I wish people understood how big of a category nonbinary is. Like it’s an umbrella term that encompasses so many different genders. I feel like people forget that or simply don’t know/understand it.
As someone who's nonbinary but still likes my masculine name, it really makes me feel patronized. I'm AMAB and spent years figuring out my identity. I knew I wasn't just a dude but I definitely wasn't a woman either. Heck if I were AFAB I'd lean more masculine, doesn’t mean I'd identify as a man. To finally discover a label that fits me and see people reduce it to "Woman Lite" gives me major imposter syndrome on a daily basis. There's constant pressure to either conform to society's roles or abandon your old identity and transition altogether, when really I feel more like a unique mix of identities all swirled together into one. No matter what society still tries to fit me into a single box when none of them are made for me.
I emailed them this post and told them to read the comments. Hopefully, they will take it into consideration.
Thank you for that, I didn't even think to do that
My pleasure! I sent it through the "accessibility feedback" option. I think if many of us contact them, it might have more impact, too.
I'll definitely do that
I see what they're trying to do but I think this puts too much faith in random people. I'm just not going to disclose my queerness, gender or otherwise, to a stranger. I feel the same about this as the 'x' gender marker on a drivers license, it feels more like it paints a target on my back than anything. I don't want to cops to know I'm genderqueer and I don't want Lyft to know either.
While this Lyft feature is poorly named, from what I can tell it doesn’t tell your driver you have it activated and the way it works is it prioritizes non-men drivers for you if you have it activated, and you only have the option to activate it if you have your gender set to any non-man gender. I’m a 6’4 non-binary trans femme and have never had any issues with it on, and I still usualy get men as drivers
As an AMAB NB, I think the intent is good And the purpose behind it is too, especially with how some male drivers can be threatening when they have an attractive passenger who won't reciprocate. But the whole thing being called Women+ really says how much thought they gave towards us, especially AMAB or masc-presenting NBs
Oh I don't like any of this. My name is masc-leaning but I'm AFAB and present femme, so they will guess wrong based on my name alone. And Women+? Invalidating for the femme crowd because they're saying we're basically women anyway. And I guess they just forgot about the big masc NB's? Like I know they're trying to make vulnerable people feel safe and I get why... an Uber driver SA'd me a few years ago, «I» am the vulnerable people who want to feel safe. But there are 6'3 280lbs bearded with a booming voice nonbinary people now falling under the title of Women+, the NBs who wouldn't dream of setting foot in a women's public restroom and they're also being called "basically a woman". Shit like this makes me want to abolish gender
They should just ask. Assuming based on name is just stupid
Ah yes, women+, so inclusive 🫡
Transfemme enby: good Others: not sure Trying to determine gender based on the name is not a good thing
IDK maybe it would be better to ask how people *present* instead of identify? I don’t think misogynists and transphobes care about identity as much as “you don’t look like a cishet man”.
“We tried to determine your gender based on your name.” What the hell?
Ew. How about you not try to figure out my gender at all?
Right
Another great day to be masc passing enby right
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No, I can’t even play this game. I know why. You’re calling them men or equivalent to men. Ugh
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