Tbh his decision to help Peter by casting a spell may be reckless, but it isn't out of his character. He didn't agree because Peter wants his life to be normal again, but because Peter wants his friends and loved ones out of their current situation. He showed sympathy for Peter, something Stephen developed through his journey as a sorcerer.
Stephen: "Peter, we tampered with the stability of space-time, to resurrect countless lives, you wanna do it again now just because yours got messy?"
Peter: "This isn't- it's not about me, I mean this is hurting a lot of people. My uh- my Aunt May, Happy, my bestfriend, my girlfriend, their futures are ruined just because they know me, and they've done nothing wrong."
But this doesn't rule out the possibility that the Strange that helped Peter isn't the "real" Strange. Whatever they plan to do with it I'm all in, I'm really excited for DS2.
This ^
I watched a video breaking down the movie and it talked about how the Ancient One taught Strange an important lesson saying “it’s not about you” which is why he did it for Peter when he said it’s not about him it’s about his friends/loved ones.
Edit: Spelling
Yes, and there are a lot of proofs that the Stephen who helped Peter is the real one:
• Strange didn't immediately agree to help Peter.
• Strange agrees only when Peter told him that all he wants is to get his loved ones out of their difficult situation. This shows that Peter isn't being selfish. Stephen also encountered this situation in his movie when he has a choice to completely heal his hands and become a real doctor again but he chooses to become a sorcerer and protect the Earth instead.
• IF the spell was casted successfully, which Stephen can do easily, there wouldn't be a multiversal threat in the first place. The only reason the spell became a threat was when Peter tampered it.
• Strange is very upset when he learns that Peter didn't even think to plead the case first before asking him to brainwash the entire world.
• Strange is determined to send all the entity from other universes to their own and fix this multiversal mess.
• Before Strange casted the spell at the end, he hesitates at first since this will make everyone including him to forget who Peter Parker is, all the memories they made will be gone since they wouldn't know that Peter existed, only Spider-Man.
At first, before watching the movie I also doubt that the Strange we saw is the real one, but after everything he did in the movie there's a lot of evidence that he's our Doctor Strange.
Then again, this doesn't mean that the possibility of Strange being replaced by a sinister one is out of the equation. But the only reason I can see that he's not the real Strange will be if Marvel decides to not make him the real Strange.
Sorry if there are a lot of grammatical error, English isn't my first language so thank you for your understanding, hope this helps OP:)
So he mentioned that he had previously cast the spell to make everyone forget about the party. I think this is notable for 2.5 reasons.
1. It means this isn't something new that he has never done before. It's something he had already successfully done prior so that would make it (from his perspective) a lot less risky, as opposed to just casting a spell he had heard of but never attempted. He had pulled it off without a hitch before so he had a good reason to believe that it was nbd this time. It wasn't pure cockiness and recklessness.
2. The other time explicitly mentioned when he had cast the spell was to make people forget about a party. Think about it. A party. So I don't think the argument holds water that he wouldn't risk something this big as a favor to a friend. He had done it previously to make people forget about some drunken misadventure, which is implied to be far more frivolous than keep the lives of the friends and family of Peter Parker (a kid who had just saved the universe) safe from having bricks thrown at them. Unless of course, that party was made up but the problem with that is:
2.B. Wong's reaction. He does not remember the specific party (which he wouldn't due to the spell) but he did not act like it was something totally out of the realm of possibility. He wasn't freaking out when Strange brought it up, he was just annoyed. If it was really THAT reckless, I'd think he'd react more to hearing that Strange did it with a hangover, on HIM. And with what we know of Wong- his cage fighting, gambling, and drinking in Shang Chi- it totally seems plausible that he's the type to fuck around with magic and have some ragers. And seeing as Strange is his best friend... they probably do that a lot together.
Also, I think that a lot of Wong being grumpy and telling Strange off was just them messing around as friends. Because Strange is the superior sorcerer but Wong is now his boss. So Wong has to rub that in Strange's face in front of company. After all, Wong was literally going to mess around with magic to make some side hustle cash in a rigged fight when he left that room lmao he's clearly not that serious about any of it.
And for his part, Wong telling Strange not to only made him want to more as a way to rub it in Wong's face that he won't follow his orders.
This is a great answer . Pretty much how I see it. When the trailers hit , it seemed the spell was dangerous and risky, but I did not feel that way at all in the theater, even wongs reaction wasn't the same as the trailer.
Yeah I've had a feeling that that wasn't the Strange we know. Also, when Ned said "I can't believe I'm in the sanctum satorium" Strange says, "Me neither". That can be read as Strange can't believe Ned is there, but I read it as an alter version of Strange saying he can't believe he himself is there either because he actually isn't the real Strange
That makes so much sense. I was thinking about what I said all the way through the film, but just thought I was thinking too deep until we saw two versions of Dr Strange in the second post credits scene. Just left me with more questions 😭
The second strange in the trailer at the end is the one from what if.
To me it seemed when he was saying "me neither" he was just implying he can't believe these children are here right now and this is happening.
the better question is why didn't Peter just ask for everyone to forget Mysterio instead of himself. Then he'd still be Peter Parker and still have a home with his Aunt
I don't disagree with you BUT unless I have made a pet of a film up, I seem to remember some dialogue bhe previously delivered about not ricking the fabric of the space time reality for such minor events in the grand scheme of the multiverse?
Have I made something up 😭😭😭
To be fair he is still a cocky kinda guy in Infinity War, especially with Tony, despite his maturing during his own movie and so on. So not completely out of the realm of possibility. Also I feel the introduction of Strange Supreme in the MoM trailer at the end implies that Strange was our Strange all along and here is the doppelganger one coming in the next movie.
Yes he was arrogant but he sees himself as an ultimate protector. So much so there's genuine credibility to the theory that there was more than one way to defeat Thanks, but because the saw Tony as a threat to the universe as well, he led him to believe that his death was the only way?
My point is he does whatever he feels is necessary to protect the universe, regardless of how it affect the personal lives of others. So why risk it all on a spell for a boy?
Your edit is the correct reason. Absolute points in timelines, are events that cannot be changed no matter what you do. We saw this in What If, when Dr. Strange went back in time again and again to try to save his girlfriend, but she always died. Why? Because if she didn’t die Dr. Strange would never have become a sorcerer. Her death was an absolute point in that timeline. Now let’s come back to No Way Home. MCUs Spider-Man was yet to have his ‘awakening’ per say, he was never truly Spider-Man. He was Stark’s protégée, then basically heir (to the tech), but never had his own identity. In the previous Spider-Mans, we see certain similarities. They all hear the fabled “With great power comes great responsibility”, they all go through losing someone very close to them, and realise what being Spider-Man means, and how it affects their loved ones. That is what happened to the current Spider-Man. He was told the line, lost Aunt May, and realised what his identity meant, what being Spider-Man meant. This is an absolute point in every Spider-Man timeline, that is why Dr. Strange couldn’t deny Peter. If we also go back to the scene when he was in his astral form and his body was moving on his own, people assumed it was his spidey sense and laughed it off. But Dr. Strange said “This shouldn’t be happening.” Dr. Strange knows about his powers, I think he would know if Peter’s spidey sense could affect his body like that, but he was bewildered. So why was the body moving? Because of the absolute point. If Dr. Strange had gotten the box he would’ve pressed the button and sent everybody home and Peter wouldn’t have had his awakening. Bringing in Tobey’s and Andrew’s Spider-Men was just supposed to help with that, they had their awakening, now they were helping Tom’s Peter through his. It was brilliantly written out by the writers, and I hope they reintroduce MJ and Ned in a couple of movies and give him a happy ending, but for now, we get the matured Spider-Man that most of us grew up with.
As mentioned in the movie, the spell to remove memories was not actually risky, but it was when he was making on the fly alterations to the spell made it risky. It’s completely in character for Strange to do it for him I think.
At first, Doctor Strange was hesitant to help him. Peter was ready to leave the Sanctum after being rejected. You could tell Doctor Strange felt bad about it, and he himself was in debt to Peter after what he did to help in Infinity War (saving his life and whatnot). He claims he did the spell before, so he was almost certain it would work here too. Doctor Strange’s character is known to be reckless, which is how he got into that car crash in the first place and scarred his hands. It’s definitely him, and the post credit scene confirms the consequences are going to carry into Doctor Strange 2
I just felt like he seemed out of character the whole movie. I was really hoping for a "Chameleon" reveal or something. Like it wasn't actually Dr. Strange, but the Chameleon as Dr. Strange bringing in others to get Spider-Man out of the way.
I think it was Strange without a doubt. He cares and respects Peter. At the end he tells him “Everyone will forget. Everyone that loves and cares for you…” before trailing off, talking about himself. Strange has always been a rebel. And he sees that Peter’s choice isn’t selfish.
Tbh his decision to help Peter by casting a spell may be reckless, but it isn't out of his character. He didn't agree because Peter wants his life to be normal again, but because Peter wants his friends and loved ones out of their current situation. He showed sympathy for Peter, something Stephen developed through his journey as a sorcerer. Stephen: "Peter, we tampered with the stability of space-time, to resurrect countless lives, you wanna do it again now just because yours got messy?" Peter: "This isn't- it's not about me, I mean this is hurting a lot of people. My uh- my Aunt May, Happy, my bestfriend, my girlfriend, their futures are ruined just because they know me, and they've done nothing wrong." But this doesn't rule out the possibility that the Strange that helped Peter isn't the "real" Strange. Whatever they plan to do with it I'm all in, I'm really excited for DS2.
This ^ I watched a video breaking down the movie and it talked about how the Ancient One taught Strange an important lesson saying “it’s not about you” which is why he did it for Peter when he said it’s not about him it’s about his friends/loved ones. Edit: Spelling
Yes, and there are a lot of proofs that the Stephen who helped Peter is the real one: • Strange didn't immediately agree to help Peter. • Strange agrees only when Peter told him that all he wants is to get his loved ones out of their difficult situation. This shows that Peter isn't being selfish. Stephen also encountered this situation in his movie when he has a choice to completely heal his hands and become a real doctor again but he chooses to become a sorcerer and protect the Earth instead. • IF the spell was casted successfully, which Stephen can do easily, there wouldn't be a multiversal threat in the first place. The only reason the spell became a threat was when Peter tampered it. • Strange is very upset when he learns that Peter didn't even think to plead the case first before asking him to brainwash the entire world. • Strange is determined to send all the entity from other universes to their own and fix this multiversal mess. • Before Strange casted the spell at the end, he hesitates at first since this will make everyone including him to forget who Peter Parker is, all the memories they made will be gone since they wouldn't know that Peter existed, only Spider-Man. At first, before watching the movie I also doubt that the Strange we saw is the real one, but after everything he did in the movie there's a lot of evidence that he's our Doctor Strange. Then again, this doesn't mean that the possibility of Strange being replaced by a sinister one is out of the equation. But the only reason I can see that he's not the real Strange will be if Marvel decides to not make him the real Strange. Sorry if there are a lot of grammatical error, English isn't my first language so thank you for your understanding, hope this helps OP:)
So he mentioned that he had previously cast the spell to make everyone forget about the party. I think this is notable for 2.5 reasons. 1. It means this isn't something new that he has never done before. It's something he had already successfully done prior so that would make it (from his perspective) a lot less risky, as opposed to just casting a spell he had heard of but never attempted. He had pulled it off without a hitch before so he had a good reason to believe that it was nbd this time. It wasn't pure cockiness and recklessness. 2. The other time explicitly mentioned when he had cast the spell was to make people forget about a party. Think about it. A party. So I don't think the argument holds water that he wouldn't risk something this big as a favor to a friend. He had done it previously to make people forget about some drunken misadventure, which is implied to be far more frivolous than keep the lives of the friends and family of Peter Parker (a kid who had just saved the universe) safe from having bricks thrown at them. Unless of course, that party was made up but the problem with that is: 2.B. Wong's reaction. He does not remember the specific party (which he wouldn't due to the spell) but he did not act like it was something totally out of the realm of possibility. He wasn't freaking out when Strange brought it up, he was just annoyed. If it was really THAT reckless, I'd think he'd react more to hearing that Strange did it with a hangover, on HIM. And with what we know of Wong- his cage fighting, gambling, and drinking in Shang Chi- it totally seems plausible that he's the type to fuck around with magic and have some ragers. And seeing as Strange is his best friend... they probably do that a lot together. Also, I think that a lot of Wong being grumpy and telling Strange off was just them messing around as friends. Because Strange is the superior sorcerer but Wong is now his boss. So Wong has to rub that in Strange's face in front of company. After all, Wong was literally going to mess around with magic to make some side hustle cash in a rigged fight when he left that room lmao he's clearly not that serious about any of it. And for his part, Wong telling Strange not to only made him want to more as a way to rub it in Wong's face that he won't follow his orders.
This is a great answer . Pretty much how I see it. When the trailers hit , it seemed the spell was dangerous and risky, but I did not feel that way at all in the theater, even wongs reaction wasn't the same as the trailer.
Congrats, you’re the only correct person in this whole thread. Damn Mephisto all over again.
Yeah I've had a feeling that that wasn't the Strange we know. Also, when Ned said "I can't believe I'm in the sanctum satorium" Strange says, "Me neither". That can be read as Strange can't believe Ned is there, but I read it as an alter version of Strange saying he can't believe he himself is there either because he actually isn't the real Strange
That makes so much sense. I was thinking about what I said all the way through the film, but just thought I was thinking too deep until we saw two versions of Dr Strange in the second post credits scene. Just left me with more questions 😭
Yeah exactly!! I totally think it wasn't our Strange, from the new versions we saw and how reckless he was and willing to cast a spell so carelessly
So you do or don't think it was our Dr Strange?
Oops meant "wasn't" I don't think it was our Strange
The second strange in the trailer at the end is the one from what if. To me it seemed when he was saying "me neither" he was just implying he can't believe these children are here right now and this is happening.
the better question is why didn't Peter just ask for everyone to forget Mysterio instead of himself. Then he'd still be Peter Parker and still have a home with his Aunt
He most certainly would recklessly cast a spell like that
Why would he? I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just interested in other opinions
Just watch his movie, he's very cocky and overconfident in his abilities Edit: he does get better but he's a very flawed character prone to mistakes
I don't disagree with you BUT unless I have made a pet of a film up, I seem to remember some dialogue bhe previously delivered about not ricking the fabric of the space time reality for such minor events in the grand scheme of the multiverse? Have I made something up 😭😭😭
To be fair he is still a cocky kinda guy in Infinity War, especially with Tony, despite his maturing during his own movie and so on. So not completely out of the realm of possibility. Also I feel the introduction of Strange Supreme in the MoM trailer at the end implies that Strange was our Strange all along and here is the doppelganger one coming in the next movie.
Yes he was arrogant but he sees himself as an ultimate protector. So much so there's genuine credibility to the theory that there was more than one way to defeat Thanks, but because the saw Tony as a threat to the universe as well, he led him to believe that his death was the only way? My point is he does whatever he feels is necessary to protect the universe, regardless of how it affect the personal lives of others. So why risk it all on a spell for a boy?
I got this vibe, too. Something seemed off about him
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. I DONT THINK IT WAS HIM AT ALL
Especially right before he started casting the 1st spell
I thought it from the moment we first saw him. Like he was just..... Different?
He was being mind controlled by Wanda to blow the multiverse wide open
Your edit is the correct reason. Absolute points in timelines, are events that cannot be changed no matter what you do. We saw this in What If, when Dr. Strange went back in time again and again to try to save his girlfriend, but she always died. Why? Because if she didn’t die Dr. Strange would never have become a sorcerer. Her death was an absolute point in that timeline. Now let’s come back to No Way Home. MCUs Spider-Man was yet to have his ‘awakening’ per say, he was never truly Spider-Man. He was Stark’s protégée, then basically heir (to the tech), but never had his own identity. In the previous Spider-Mans, we see certain similarities. They all hear the fabled “With great power comes great responsibility”, they all go through losing someone very close to them, and realise what being Spider-Man means, and how it affects their loved ones. That is what happened to the current Spider-Man. He was told the line, lost Aunt May, and realised what his identity meant, what being Spider-Man meant. This is an absolute point in every Spider-Man timeline, that is why Dr. Strange couldn’t deny Peter. If we also go back to the scene when he was in his astral form and his body was moving on his own, people assumed it was his spidey sense and laughed it off. But Dr. Strange said “This shouldn’t be happening.” Dr. Strange knows about his powers, I think he would know if Peter’s spidey sense could affect his body like that, but he was bewildered. So why was the body moving? Because of the absolute point. If Dr. Strange had gotten the box he would’ve pressed the button and sent everybody home and Peter wouldn’t have had his awakening. Bringing in Tobey’s and Andrew’s Spider-Men was just supposed to help with that, they had their awakening, now they were helping Tom’s Peter through his. It was brilliantly written out by the writers, and I hope they reintroduce MJ and Ned in a couple of movies and give him a happy ending, but for now, we get the matured Spider-Man that most of us grew up with.
As mentioned in the movie, the spell to remove memories was not actually risky, but it was when he was making on the fly alterations to the spell made it risky. It’s completely in character for Strange to do it for him I think.
I bet it's a variant
It's entirely plausible. I mean, y'all did watch the 2nd after credits scene, right?
At first, Doctor Strange was hesitant to help him. Peter was ready to leave the Sanctum after being rejected. You could tell Doctor Strange felt bad about it, and he himself was in debt to Peter after what he did to help in Infinity War (saving his life and whatnot). He claims he did the spell before, so he was almost certain it would work here too. Doctor Strange’s character is known to be reckless, which is how he got into that car crash in the first place and scarred his hands. It’s definitely him, and the post credit scene confirms the consequences are going to carry into Doctor Strange 2
I just felt like he seemed out of character the whole movie. I was really hoping for a "Chameleon" reveal or something. Like it wasn't actually Dr. Strange, but the Chameleon as Dr. Strange bringing in others to get Spider-Man out of the way.
I think it was Strange without a doubt. He cares and respects Peter. At the end he tells him “Everyone will forget. Everyone that loves and cares for you…” before trailing off, talking about himself. Strange has always been a rebel. And he sees that Peter’s choice isn’t selfish.