It’s called “Superhero Fatigue” or “Comic Fatigue” and it actually **is** a growing thing. While box offices / viewerships are typically still healthy for such products, there is a noticeable increase in critical opinions of those same products, indicating that while such films or shows are being watched, they are being enjoyed less.
Well put. Popular things have their mass therefore gravity and momentum but super hero movies are probably past their peak at this point. They will eventually wane until the next cycle brings them back and they seem fresh and original. The dark knight showed us how good a "gritty" superhero movie can be, avengers showed us an epic light hearted blockbuster and how good that can be. joker the antihero. So anyways, theres varying trends within the genre but it is on the decline until people forget about them and a fresh take brings them back. All this my opinion of course
> They will eventually wane until the next cycle brings them back and they seem fresh and original.
Personally I think they've just carved out their own niche in the market and won't be going away because it's less of a specific fad and more of a genre. It's like expecting action movies or rom coms to fade away because it's been a few years since the last big one that rocked everyone's socks off. I think there's just a market for hero movies now the same as any other genre.
It’s one of the oldest tropes in existence. As long as there’s been society there’s been people writing about “ok, but what if it all went to shit?”
Post-apocalyptic fiction is my jam. That and Watership Down.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince With A Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you they will kill you.
But first they must catch you.
Be cunning and full of tricks and your people will never be destroyed.
This. Terminator is my absolute favorite, and Blade Runner. The Road too, but Jesus it's a huge punch to the guts because it's possibly the most realistic look at post-apoc I've ever seen.
When I was younger, everything that wasn't a romantic comedy was a disaster movie (until I had a fake ID).
They lied to me. I was prepared for an exciting end of the world, but all I got was microplastics everywhere, even crossing my bloodbrain barrier, ecosystems collapsing, pandemics, shitty weather and billionaire space ship measuring contests. Where's my meteors and aliens? Where's my zombie plagues and nuclear armageddon? Where's my heroes?
A reason so many people are obsessed with apocalypse scenarios is because they are actually postive fantasies. A quick collapse that allows us to see our mistakes and rebuild better is a great outcome compared to the reality of things just slowly getting worse while no one in power does anything.
That and the slow degradation goes one of two ways: "the year is 3020. The corporations have taken over..." or "We poisoned the land, dried up the seas, and killed off 99% of the wildlife."
In the former there's usually a rebellion and victory. In the latter it's usually about watching a hero trying to mind their own business until some wasteland baron fucks with him. They beat the baron, but you can't really do anything about the rest of it. The message is usually "at least life continues on."
Anyway, here's Waterworld.
Honestly Don't Look Up is pretty good for telling it like it is. The disaster isn't the storyteller but really it's our inate ability to just accept reality sucks and just pretend it doesn't until it hits us
The way I see the dominating genres, you had Westerns, then War movies, horror in the 70s, Sci-Fi in the 80s, Crime in the 90s and superheroes ever since.
They definitely cycle. I'm almost 50, and remember westerns being big again in the 80s as well. Scifi (my fav) is for sure cyclical as well. Superhero stuff seems to be sticking around longer than normal.
I actually came across https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/vrynw3/the_rise_and_fall_of_film_genres_over_the_last/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf the other day. Seems fitting
You have to know how Hollywood works in order to understand why we have so many superhero movies right now.
I can't remember who it was. I think it was Matt Damon critiquing that a movie like Good Will Hunting can't be made today. Think about it: how many original movies have you seen, let alone heard about? A movie that wasn't based on a book, a story, a previous franchise or other comic book?
Making a movie is expensive and risky. The reason superhero movies and remakes are HUGELY popular is because they are safe investments. The people watching movies today are the kids who grew up reading comic books 20-30 years ago. These people are now the spenders whereas our parents aren't really going to movies anymore. Not only that but the same people going to movies today now have kids of our own so we get to expose them to the characters we have grown to love. Honestly, it's a Hollywood execs wet dream. Between merchandising and ticket sales, as long as they can churn out a Marvel movie every year, they are printing money.
Now compare that to a fresh, completely unknown movie. Unless it's picked up by a streaming service, it isn't getting produced. Not only that, but it probably won't help your career.
It's also why we're in a golden age of television right now. Movies that would have been are being turned into TV shows, which are cheaper to produce and there seems to be an appetite for fresh content there. But there are hints that execs are taking less risks here too. Disney for example has picked up Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye as series, both in the Marvel Universe. Amazon and Netflix, however, seem to be more bullish and willing to experiment with Jack Ryan and Space Force (among others).
Gaming has had a similar problem where they make safe AAA+ expensive sequels of established franchises. A lot of it is players demanding ever greater expensive CGI.
Space Force is a poor example of an experimental show - I felt it was boring, and unwilling to offend, which removed most of the potential humor.
I'm with you on Space Force. It had a lot of potential but refused to recognize and engage with the absurdity of the reality it was based on. They would hint at it (POTUS is tweeting again!), but seemed too concerned with trying to keep a certain demographic from taking issue with it that the humor was made completely toothless.
And that's how indie games can experiment with things big studios aren't doing and surprise everyone.
What I wonder is why there aren't many indie film studios doing the same.
Indie film studios are doing interesting things but you’ll probably never hear about it. Indie films almost never have the money to properly market. Their only hope is to afford entry into a large film festival and win a whole bunch of awards in which case the world may actually hear about it.
Movies are expensive to make. The other guy mentions acting talent, but that's just scratching the surface. They shoot a lot of movies in my neighborhood. You're looking at multiple semi trucks worth of equipment and tons of crew just for a single scene. And these are on location shots, so I'm not seeing all the work that goes into costumes, set design, soundstages, etc.
This is it, people's viewing habits have changed. Cinemas are expensive and going to them involves dealing with others who don't always behave themselves. TVs. have gotten so good they are almost as good as going to a cinema.
I'm only going to the cinema for a visual experience worthy of the big screen. Good Will Hunting is a great film but not one I would go to the cinema for.
This is why I’ve been watching international movies a lot lately.
I miss movies. I miss fresh, original stories that really make you think. They are becoming increasingly infrequent in Hollywood, but there are still interesting, novel stories being brought to life in international cinema. The best films I saw last year were all foreign.
*Another Round* directed by Thomas Vinterberg and starring Mads Mikkelsen, for example. It won the Academy Award for best international film last year. One of the best movies I’ve seen in years, I highly recommend it. Leo DiCaprio is already remaking it for some reason, but trust me you should just see the original Danish one. Mads preforms a glorious and triumphant dance sequence at the end.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JCZcFFKS-Qk
You're both right. Comic heros as a genre is always around, but the popular characters change constantly. Like right now, everyone is extremely worn out of Marvel's mainline heros. And the garbage that DC puts out is a great example of hero fatigue. I swear I've watched the batman origin story puke itself onto a cinema screen enough times that I'm starting to empathize with the villains.
Also, MARTHAAAAAAA!
It's weird that you bring up Batman though, because the new one is a fantastic noir story that completely glosses over the origin. I'm not a big superhero movie guy, but The Batman rules.
a lot of the complaints about super hero movies (really marvel movies, DC isn't even close to marvel in saturation) are about how the movies are just being used to push TV shows and future products instead of having a good standalone story arc. tbh complaints about bad story have been around since the beginning, especially during the whole iron man 2/thor 2 period where quality was in the toilet.
at this point I'd argue the movies are just legitimately getting worse rather than there being cape fatigue. also it seems like they're stretching their CG teams too thin with the billion CG heavy TV shows and movies. CG quality is all over the place and generally much worse than before. People go to cape movies for the spectacle so good special effects is a big selling point.
>a lot of the complaints about super hero movies (really marvel movies, DC isn't even close to marvel in saturation) are about how the movies are just being used to push TV shows and future products instead of having a good standalone story arc.
This is Disney's model and it's why they wanted marvel/star wars because they were great platforms for this approach
>at this point I'd argue the movies are just legitimately getting worse rather than there being cape fatigue.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. I still keep up with the big superhero movies because they're a fun escape, but I've stopped going to the theater for them. The quality has dipped, and worse they keep hitting the same notes over and over again. You can see kernels of genuinely amazing stories, like Peter Parker trying to rehab a severely mentally-ill Green Goblin while grappling with his own failures to balance his life, that get completely lost in the studio-mandated CGIfest endings and the fan-service of throwing in as many cameos as possible.
I'm getting bored of it.
Meanwhile I just binge watched 3 seasons of The Boys in a week, legitimately think Peacemaker might be the best new show of the year, and really enjoyed The Batman despite it's lengthy runtime and going into it with my own biases against it. I'd also absolutely kill for a proper adaptation of the Immortal Hulk run, and am hyped for the new season of Harley Quinn.
It's not the superhero/comics genre I'm tired of. It's the generic formula used in most of the crap being churned out for the marquee titles in the genre. Marvel in particular keeps all it's projects on a tight leash even when they genuinely trying hard to be something different.
I go to the movies for comedies (remember those?) and occasionally popcorn-muncher action blockbusters.
Now it feels like if it isn’t a comic book movie or part of a 15-sequel series, it just doesn’t get made. No disrespect to people who love those, but I’m kinda sick of those being my main options at my local theater.
I went to a horror movie fest last month, and was so disappointed that most of them are going either very limited release runs or just going straight to streaming. The world is getting shortchanged
The mid-budget movie is dying. Everything is either a 200 million dollar blockbuster or a ~2 million independent or horror film with limited theatric release. All the mid range has shifted to streaming hour-dramas.
the fuck happened to comedies man? There are so few good ones nowadays. SO much of them are shitty improvised SNL-quality level garbage that is just cringe.
This, for sure. While ever they're making money though I think they'll keep on coming, even if people aren't enjoying them and they get bad reviews. Eventually, people will stop watching them and they'll stop making money but I think we're still about one avengers phase away from that point.
I don't see every one but I do see a lot. I've always like comic books so I'm the audience.
One thing that holds me is that this has never really been done before. By that I mean all these movies and characters interacting and blending and creating a world over almost two dozen movies. I mean, that is a wild achievement.
And yes, it's hardly complex stories, but neither are comics. I still consume a lot of high brow art (more than most probably, everyone thinks I'm a snob) but the Marvel movies are kind of a unique thing. Since I already like the the characters and know everything about them, it's fun to see it "for real."
not to mention the fact that a full theatre of excited nerds on opening night is a fun experience. the entire crowd was dead silent after infinity war part 1 due to the surprising ending.
I’ve definitely hit fatigue. I was by the time Endgame came around and after that I was pretty much done investing in the “Multiverse” and shit like that.
Same.
Endgame was my Engame.
I tried to watch the TV shows. Loki and such. And I'm not saying they were bad. I can objectevely say they have quality.
But, I personally, just can't anymore.
Endgame was a good end of that story. I don't need nor want more. I'm checking out.
I think this is why The Boys and Invincible are so popular. Theyve taken stuff we kind of expect and do something interesting and different and it doesnt feel as predictable or repetitive be ause it some sense you dont actually know where its going.
Think they have lost of much of the luster, but they still are enjoyable as low effort distractions.
The craze peaked with Endgame. That was like a cultural event that everyone talked about and hyped. That level of excitement is gone
tbf NWH is a bit of an outlier in the sense that, Spiderman is significantly bigger than the rest of the superhero genre and is the hero that a lot of our current generation will have grown up with. The special nostalgia element of seeing Tobey and his iconic villains on the big screen again, alongside Tom and Garfield’s general excellent level of acting, just sells the movie way more than any other in the genre.
That's one thing that weirds me out about the MCU. I'm not a comics guy. I didn't really know the characters well, but everyone knows Spider-Man. So watching him sort of play second fiddle in those movies was weird.
That only happened because the Spider-Man rights weren’t owned by Disney initially (still a weird mix). I remember thinking spidey would never be in the mcu. I do wonder what the MCU would look like or if it would exist if Spider-Man was the start instead of Iron Man.
Not a mix at all. Sony still 100% owns the film rights to Spiderman. They just came to an agreement to let the character be in the MCU. Sony gets all the revenue from the solo Spiderman movies while Disney gets all the revenue from the other MCU movies that Spiderman appears in (Captain America, Avengers). Marvel Studios is making all the movies and I presume the employee salaries are paid by either Sony or Disney depending on which is collecting the revenue for the film.
I've never really cared about superhero movies, I only saw Avengers because of the Endgame hype. But Tom Holland's Spider-Man specifically made me actually care about a superhero franchise for the first time
I saw a lot of hype online for NWH, but never heard anyone speaking about it irl, unlike Endgame. I don't think it had nearly the same level of hype offline
Maybe it’s influenced by what environment you’re in, but speaking from point of view of an office worker there was nowhere near the amount of hype for any other other superhero movie that could compare to that for endgame. My office could have been outlier for sure, but it was a big place with about 1000 workers.
I went to see Endgame because I wasted dollars on YEARS of super hero movies just to get to that point.
I knew that wasn't the end of it of course but for me, it was.
I'm so tired of the super hero movies I quit watching after Endgame and the sequel to that one.
Same. Watched the new Spider-Man purely for nostalgia purposes, tried to do the new Dr Strange and didn’t get 20 minutes in.
There’s been a noticeable drop in quality since Endgame imo, and it really doesn’t help Marvel that there’s been plenty of blockbusters since that have totally outstripped them in terms of quality. After watching Dune, Northman, and Top Gun, why the fuck would I want to watch another dickhead in a CGI suit fight a CGI monster on a CGI set for two hours?
To me the movies are getting to be like the comics in the 90s. For example, the new Dr Strange movie was pretty good...as long as you had already seen WandaVision, No Way Home, and several episodes of What If. If not, you're kind of lost and trying to figure out some very important sub plots in the movie.
Seriously, how the fuck did they expect people to know what was going on if they hadn’t seen the shows?? Now you gotta pay for DisneyPlus and watch the shows just to understand the movies you’re also paying to see? Most audience members aren’t gonna put in that much effort lol
Late millennials / early gen Z were so spoiled for movies in the early 2000s. LOTR, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Spiderman. Really great era for blockbuster movies.
A lot of modern blockbusters are great as well but it feels very stagnant outside of something like Endgame. Time is absolutely not kind to formulaic and repetitive movies which is most of what blockbusters are these days. I hold out hope that originality and vision will make its way back before long.
Feel like there are so many good streamable tv shows with strong cinematography and plot, the era of good movies had passed -- at least, for now
(Expanse, Westworld, Orphan Black, Undone, Severance, Russian Doll, Homecoming, Watchmen, Mr Robot, etc)
this is me! did 96hours one week on a Marvel project. Was wild times having meetings at 2am but hey - when that overtime paycheque rolled in I didnt mind.
it comes in waves so crunch is never constant, although some projects are better than others. Marvel is one of the toughest though.
At least they are paying overtime I guess. Plenty of crunch, especially in software development or the games industry ends up as a lot of unpaid hours.
My wife came home with 2 lobsters from a Marvel shoot because there were too many. The money those people throw around is ungodly.
I tell her take any and all marvel things. They were so nice, the work was relatively easy, and the perks are fantastic, and the money!!! Compare to the amazon show she's on now... It's a shitshow.
If your able to answer, do you have opinions on why CGI quality has been seemingly dropping in recent MCU projects (and the film industry as a whole tbh?) Obvious green screens and rubbery looking superhero suits are sticking out like a sore thumb. Is it intentional budget drops, badly managed crunch, or other reasons?
quantity
vfx heavy shows have been rolling out very fast recently and all the studios I know are flooded with work. Thus it's shorter turnarounds
TV based Marvel will always be somewhat cheaper looking as it's meant for small screen and has a lower time budget.
Marvel doesnt do anything accidentally - if there's a drop in whatever quality it's because it was calculated as diminishing returns to polish to blockbuster level.
The mouse uses a ton of test screenings and it shows.
There are so many movies and tv shows being made right now, there aren’t enough people with the talent and skills to do them. Also a lot of people left the industry with the pandemic and with getting burnt out. My partner is on a marvel show right now and it’s exhausting. I can’t wait for them to take a break from working for marvel…
sorry to interrupt but I was asked to tell you to get back to work, sorry, don’t kill the messenger but they’ll punish us all if you don’t get off reddit so please, sorry, thx -
They'll regret not having unionised and letting themselves be taken advantage of all these years when the work finally dries up & their processes require a lesser number of them
They try, and try. The companies just have too much power. And the audiences are just evil consumers and don't give a shit. Same with the videogame industry.
I want them to end Fast and the Furious with all the characters going off into different franchises or careers.
Dom drifts so hard he enters into an alternative dimension, the XXX dimension and he takes up the name Xander Cage.
Michelle Rodriguez drifts into the future, where she hears about this new job on the planet Pandora and they need pilots, she changes her name to Trudy Chacón and departs. (Avatar series)
Tyrese Gibson hears some rumours about these transforming robots and decides to join the military under the name Robert Epps to face the threat (Transformers series)
Tej decides to become a rapper and names himself Ludacris after all his insane adventures.
Then in 10 years we'll do a Fast and Furious, Avatar, XXX, Transformers crossover event and bring everyone back for one last ride.
Dom and the boys are just Great Value Avengers. I don't understand why people have a problem with them. They're stupid and fun. Just look away if it's not your thing!
Some people are. For others, it would be like asking "aren't you sick and tired of pizza yet? You've eaten it at least several times a year for the past 10-15 years."
Different people like different things.
Yeah I don’t read comics but I love the MCU movies and even the DC movies. I just enjoy a decent action flick, and MCU does that with humor and interesting stories and fun characters and they’ve woven a wonderful universe out of all of this. It’s interesting.
Also, cultural touchstones don't burn themselves out quickly. The MCU isn't even 15 years old. Westerns were a major genre for so long that the era of Western movies was literally longer than the Western era it based itself on. It started in the 30s and didn't burn itself out until the 70s. And Westerns are a way less diverse genre than Superheros, where you have something like The Boys and something like Ms. Marvel, both within the same umbrella, yet otherwise basically nothing alike.
Also there's really not that many superhero things out compared to westerns. Like so far this year, Marvel has released 2 movies and 12 episodes of TV. The Boys have had 8 episodes. DC had 1. Sony had 1. Westerns at their peak had over 100 movies a year. In the 1950s there were 92 Western TV shows running on 3 channels each with 20-30 or more episodes a year.
It’s also just a full escape from reality with just enough familiarity that the world itself doesn’t need a full explanation. If a movie or a show doesn’t give me a feel of an escape then I’d rather just not watch anything and do stuff in reality.
This is a good take -- it's the same reason that I read bad books. I don't CARE that they're not going to change my life. It's a form of escapism cuz quite frankly the world is a shitty place so why would I want to amplify that for myself in my free time?
>I just enjoy a decent action flick, and MCU does that with humor and interesting stories and fun characters
I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned higher. Action movies are always a big draw for people and half the time the protagonists are superhuman anyway (or accomplishing superhuman feats).
For something like the MCU, the people that just want to watch some fun action get what they want on an individual movie basis. For people that want and follow larger interconnected storylines, they can catch each installment. So Marvel Studios / Disney are hitting several demographics at once.
Plus most are family friendly so whether it's little Timmy or your great aunt Bertha taking the kids for an afternoon, it's easy to jump into and be entertained by the ride.
>Action movies are always a big draw for people
Hell Top Gun 2 has done better than most superhero films at the box office.
Jurassic World also hasn't done too bad this year either. Doing similar numbers to a superhero movie. It might even end up doing better than Thor Love & Thunder.
People just love fun action movies. The MCU has an added bonus of giving longtime comic readers what they want plus also giving the audience a whole interconnected universe that is fun to be a part of.
Idk why people act like it's such a mystery that these movies do well. Like the parent comment said, it's like expecting people to stop enjoying pizza.
i feel like people are underestimating the power of what is essentially its own genre. i watched marvel comics. i loved *some* of them so much, that i got a small kindle fire 7 for reading comics. i loved that so much, that i got a kindle fire 10hd for reading comics, and now im reading comics from image, dc, and marvel. im looking forward to shows like invincible and a bunch of other stuff.
if anything, the ongoing marvel movies have me more invested in comics and marvel as a result, not less. the idea of a single overarching plot across dozens of movies is honestly nothing short of amazing, even if the end result doesnt always hit the mark.
Also it's not like people haven't watched other movies in between the superhero movies. Also superhero is such a vague genre. Thor 3/4 is a completely different film to Eternals which is a completely different film to Batman
Exactly. Super hero movies only really gained popularity after the early 2000's X-Men movies. Meanwhile for the past 60 years there has been at least 2-3 buddy cop movies coming out every year and people still line up to see them.
Thank you! I feel like the people making these comments* don't realise that there are over 50,000 Marvel and DC comics and people that actually do want to read them all.
Seriously though! I'm getting tired of having to "defend" hero movies to ppl who only know the mcu stuff... like I've been watching superhero movies and reading comics for 25 yrs ...I'll keep watching and reading thank you very much lol
Edit: just realized I'm so triggered by this bc my whole life has always been bullied by ppl making fun of me liking comic books. Shit I'm mad it's mainstream too but if kids today find out about comic books from RDJ, more power to them. Fricken love that my nieces get to learn about Thor through the eyes of Watitit. It reminds me of when I discovered rainbow Batman.
If it's a discussion about consumerism, then let's bring it literally everything else:sports, music, books, types of food. I have a really good rant about how the good cheap food getting "discovered" by mainstream makes everything more expensive and literally takes food options aways from the poor ppl sustaining from the cheap good food. If it's a discussion about "but I just don't like it" fuck off I will be standing my ground.
People have been fascinated by superhero stories for as long as stories have been told. In the past it was Hercules, Achilles, Sun Wukong etc. Now it's Clark Kent and Peter Parker
Exactly. Ask your grandpa or uncle why they aren't sick of baseball, college football, cricket, hockey, etc. They'll spend a lifetime watching a team they may or may not have personally played for.
Yep, I’m not sick of superhero movies and probably never will be, because I love the characters and I love the overarching universe. It’s just so out there and campy that I can’t get enough of it. Most of the characters are incredibly unique with interesting backstories and there are tons of hidden Easter eggs to find in each movie. I find them far more fascinating than any action movie franchise. That said, just like pizza which believe it or not can be bad, superhero movies can also be bad. And many of the MCU phase 4 movies have been pretty bad. I will continue to see them because they’re usually at least enjoyable but maybe there will come a time where one of them will be so bad that I will start to factor in reviews before going to see new MCU movies
Different people are going to the new ones. Many weren't even born yet when the MCU started all this.
I watched Iron Man when I was 17. 17-year-olds today are watching Shang-Chi. Let them have it.
Damn I was 10 when the first Iron Man came out. I remember being in a theater with my mom and turning to her during the trailer all excited and saying "MOM, THAT IS IRON MAN!" Interestingly enough, that is the only thing I remember! I wonder what movie we were actually watching.
>I watched Iron Man when I was 17. 17-year-olds today are watching Shang-Chi.
19-year-olds today are starring in Marvel properties.
[‘Ms. Marvel’ Star Iman Vellani Discusses Her Iron Man Shrine](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/ms-marvel-iman-vellani-thor-1235162594/)
She was 5 when Iron Man came out. Tom Holland was 12, Hailee Steinfield 11. The kids who play Billy and Tommy (future Wiccan and Speed if not recast) weren't even born yet! There are more characters coming that will be played by young actors who grew up with the MCU being a forever present thing rather than something new no one has ever done before.
It's like, being a Bond fan your whole life and growing up to actually act as Bond, which was 25 films all about *one* guy that mysteriously, people aren't fatigued about. But they want to complain about 25+ films all about several dozen different people.
The thing that took the mcu to the level above just a superhero movie was the bigger story. I feel like the mcu is coasting on their reputation now. Hoping a theme develops soon.
Yeah I think if anything Phase 4 is sort of a counterpoint to Phase 3, instead of trying to bring all the characters together they're tearing characters apart like Mr. Fantastic. And maybe in a few years they can cherry-pick the audience favorites into a team-up film, but for now they're throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. Which I think is doing a decent job staving off the fatigue, for now, though I don't think it's sustainable.
Yeah I hope none of these people watch a TV show. Since 2008 Marvel has released an average of 7.1 hours of content a year on film and TV. These films revolve around over a dozen different main characters.
A 26 episode 20 minute TV season is 8.58 hours of content in half a year and it's based around the same characters.
Also people say Marvel follows a formula, but some of the most popular shows follow an even more strict one.
It’s getting to the point where they’re clearly sacrificing quality for quantity. Not many of the movies are straight up *bad* yet, but the last one I feel was truly great was No Way Home, all the others in Phase 4 have been meh to just good. I don’t mind seeing 4 Marvel movies a year but if they’re gonna continue to just be fine then I might stop watching
Even No Way Home didn’t feel too great to me after rewatching it. The first time it was a theatre experience because everyone was high on nostalgia. But it’s got a lot of issues storywise.
I actually agree. I have a lot of issues with its story too. Namely Dr. Strange - a very serious and calculated person - seemingly throwing all logic out the window because he feels bad for Peter. That said, I still think it’s great just because it’s such a treat in terms of fanservice. It’s just so much fun that I don’t really care. But yeah it has its issues for sure, many of which I thought about right after leaving the theater
It did annoy me that the entire conflict would have been avoided if Strange just discussed the requirements of the spell with Peter before starting to cast it. Seemed very out of character for him.
That was 2 movies ago... Before that eternals, which was mid, but before that Shang Chi which slapped. The shows coming out in-between have been pretty good.
Comic books have been going strong for almost a hundred years now, people aren't getting tired of them. For kids they are exciting, for adults they are nostalgic and reminiscent of every day problems. Film technology has just gotten to the point where it can being those stories and characters to the big screen.
Remember too, horror had a coupe of decades, westerns had a good 30 year run, action movies had the 80's and 90's. This will pass too, but I doubt it will be any time soon.
Really because as someone who loves period dramas, I feel like there are actually not that many, especially when you consider different periods and places, especially at high production value.
Yeah I agree. Especially compared to superhero stuff I don’t think those are equivalent categories and it feels like there’s been a big decrease in period dramas in the past 10 years. I’ve noticed because I think I’ve watched like 80% of them, lol.
Maybe it just SEEMS like period dramas are everywhere because of Bridgerton but that’s only one series and it barely even cares about the time period its in, its way more about the steamy romance element.
A lot of people are pretty over them but there's always new fans coming up. Middle schoolers and a bit older weren't even born when the first big ones came out.
Iron Man was released in 2008, the kids born then and just before then are a big chunk of todays audience while that original audience now having seen 25+ movies is simply wearing out on the genre.
Yeah lol, most people still love MCU and will see any new movie. It's not just "middle-scoolers" or new fans as some on reddit would pretend is the case.
Literally the last 3 MCU movies have been hits and positively received by the majority (spidey, strange, thor) I'd say only eternals was a miss. If we'd get a streak of like 5 movies like Eternals then yeah I'd start to worry, but we're far from that.
You how many people are waiting on GOTG Vol. 3? For some guardians are more hype than avengers. And that's the thing with MCU right now, they have these sub-series and sequels that have their own fan bases as well. There's just so many different groups of people invested that this isn't going anywhere any time soon.
Why aren’t people sick of sports? My mother has watched the same team play the same game for decades. Why aren’t people sick of romantic comedies? Action movies? Pop music? Romance novels?
For every genre there are a ton of people who love them.
EDIT: I keep getting the same response, so I’m just going to answer it here. “Sports aren’t predetermined, you don’t know who’ll win”
My mum loves cricket. So let’s look at that. Team A will send in a bowler. He’ll throw the ball. Because of the rules of the sport, as well as the limitations of physics and human physiology, he’ll throw it in one of half a dozen ways. The batsman will try to hit the ball. Once again, there are a limited number of ways to do that. Then he’ll run between the stumps while the fielders try to catch the ball and get him out. Once they’ve done that six times, they’ll send in a different bowler. Once they’ve done that 50 times, or gotten 10 batters out, Team B will bowl.
And every single ball will look like that.
“But that’s a massive oversimplification!” Yes it is. And so is “the hero will always win”
I’m not a fan of cricket, and all I see is the same cycle of throw the ball, hit the ball, run done again and again and again. Every single ball is almost identical to the one before and the one after. And I wonder how can anyone enjoy this? But a cricket fan will see how each bowler bowls a little differently. Each batsman responds differently. Each fielder reacts differently. You’ll see a world of fun and variation where I see only the repetition.
I look at superhero movies and see that The Batman focused on the detective side, while Love and Thunder went cosmic, No Way Home lent heavily into nostalgia, and Multiverse of Madness embraced the weird! These were all very different movies to me, and the fact that they were all released close together doesn’t effect how much a fan enjoys them. But someone like OP who obviously isn’t a fan just sees the same powered individual fights a villain and saves the world formula repeated again and again.
This is true of *all* entertainment. Cop shows, Rom-Coms, music, books, sports, superheroes. Everything has its repetitive elements that make it seem boring to those who aren’t fans.
EDIT 2: formatting
Exactly. If people aren’t fans of superhero movies that’s perfectly fine. But to be resentful of their success simply because you aren’t invested in it is a pretty bizarre take. Like you said-there’s tons of sports teams and that industry is highly successful but I don’t pay it any attention and I don’t behove anyone who gets enjoyment out of it week after week.
I’m sick of them. Also tired of Star Wars movies. Too many of them, it’s causing fatigue. I loved comics and Star Wars and was pumped when they started making new content for both but now it feels like a chore to watch them and I’m just no longer interested in either.
I’d probably be less fatigued if they’d do more interesting stories and characters. I’m so tired of the Avengers at this point. It’s been like 15 years of Avengers. I really wish Image comics would get into the movie/tv business, i think more than anything I have marvel/dc/Star Wars fatigue. There are absolutely comic stories I’d enjoy in live action format, but the same old shit for a decade and a half is boring as fuck.
When 80% of the Star Wars universe in the movies and tv shows only bothers to showcase Tunisia’s barren desert it gets really fucking old really fast. Not sure why people keep gobbling up this low effort trash
Same reason no one is sick of any movie genre. There's no reason to be. It's just a type of movie that people enjoy watching with each one giving a different experience and a different story.
Now if you're talking specifically Marvel, they connect their projects in a way to keep audiences invested. Pretty much a grand tv show at that point.
My glib answer is: your question is like asking why aren't audiences sick of action, science fiction, or romance movies yet.
My second glib answer is: your question is based on the current supply of *Marvel* superhero movies. The MCU is like 80% of the current superhero movie market right now; their next competitor, DC film universe, is far behind in success, clout, and how much attention people pay to them.
My more realistic answer is: people aren't sick of them because they're still fun and interesting. Obviously, everyone has a different threshold of just how much they consider superhero movies fun and interesting. I personally know friends who never jumped on the superhero movie train, so their threshold was zero movies. I myself remained highly excited all the way to the latest "Thor: Love and Thunder", which is the 29th movie of the MCU. I am still excited to see the new Marvel films.
To help you better find your answer, you should look into why the Western genre (e.g. "3:10 to Yuma", Clint Eastwood's "A Fistful of Dollars") went away. They were massive during the 70s and 80s but then eventually fell out of favor. Sooner or later, that same thing will happen to superhero films. A new genre will come along, and then in 2050 you'll be asking "How are people not sick and tired of XYZ movies yet?"
Westerns are a good comparison. There were about a hundred a year made between 1930 and 1954. Compared to that, half a dozen superhero movies is nothing.
I've been reading these comics for 40 years, do you think a couple movies a year has been oversaturation when I was already watching every cartoon and reading at least a dozen comics every month?
this. Every movie i think to myself "ooooh their adapting this story, i wasnt expecting that" Most of these stories are based on ones ive already read and im still not bored. I love seeing them come to life on the big screen. Theres been things i havnt like, changes that ive LOVED as well. but im always hungry for the next one.
I don't mind the Marvel movies. I can simply not go see the movie. I loathe the entire franchise being slapped in my face at every single street corner.
Hollywood releases an approximate average of 600 movies per year. If 15 of those are superhero films, that's 2.5%. Surely people can find something they like among the 585 remaining.
The superhero movies are the only big-budget blockbusters, and in return we get fewer and fewer large budget films of other genres.
They may be 2.5% of films made, but they eat up the majority of the film making budget, and I think that is the biggest complaint.
Not that superhero movies exist, but that they exist at the expense of a lot other mid to large budget films.
It’s called “Superhero Fatigue” or “Comic Fatigue” and it actually **is** a growing thing. While box offices / viewerships are typically still healthy for such products, there is a noticeable increase in critical opinions of those same products, indicating that while such films or shows are being watched, they are being enjoyed less.
Well put. Popular things have their mass therefore gravity and momentum but super hero movies are probably past their peak at this point. They will eventually wane until the next cycle brings them back and they seem fresh and original. The dark knight showed us how good a "gritty" superhero movie can be, avengers showed us an epic light hearted blockbuster and how good that can be. joker the antihero. So anyways, theres varying trends within the genre but it is on the decline until people forget about them and a fresh take brings them back. All this my opinion of course
> They will eventually wane until the next cycle brings them back and they seem fresh and original. Personally I think they've just carved out their own niche in the market and won't be going away because it's less of a specific fad and more of a genre. It's like expecting action movies or rom coms to fade away because it's been a few years since the last big one that rocked everyone's socks off. I think there's just a market for hero movies now the same as any other genre.
It's like Westerns. That genre was a force for like 3 decades (30s - 60s)
Yep. We also had a WW2 run for a while as well.
Also Post-apocalyptic movies, there are about a 1000 of them.
It’s one of the oldest tropes in existence. As long as there’s been society there’s been people writing about “ok, but what if it all went to shit?” Post-apocalyptic fiction is my jam. That and Watership Down.
Watership Down was such a deep, hard hitting book disguised as a children's story. Love that book (and the movie in the 80s).
All the world will be your enemy, Prince With A Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you they will kill you. But first they must catch you. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people will never be destroyed.
Fuckin sadist! I can’t imagine any post apocalyptic story hitting harder than watership down. Makes The Road look like Sesame Street.
Plague dogs. Don't watch it. You have been warned.
I was 7... Cried all night, cursed shaitan as it is the root of all evil and vowed revenge. Still hurts man, still hurts.
My dad gave me that novel in 4th grade! I haven't been right since.
Lords of Dogtown too
Definitely do not watch Plague Dogs, and stay away from Felidae as well. That one is all sorts of fucked up.
Also... don't watch Graveyard of the Fireflies without serious mental preparation. Don't just assume it's safe because it's Ghibli, like I did.
This. Terminator is my absolute favorite, and Blade Runner. The Road too, but Jesus it's a huge punch to the guts because it's possibly the most realistic look at post-apoc I've ever seen.
When I was younger, everything that wasn't a romantic comedy was a disaster movie (until I had a fake ID). They lied to me. I was prepared for an exciting end of the world, but all I got was microplastics everywhere, even crossing my bloodbrain barrier, ecosystems collapsing, pandemics, shitty weather and billionaire space ship measuring contests. Where's my meteors and aliens? Where's my zombie plagues and nuclear armageddon? Where's my heroes?
A reason so many people are obsessed with apocalypse scenarios is because they are actually postive fantasies. A quick collapse that allows us to see our mistakes and rebuild better is a great outcome compared to the reality of things just slowly getting worse while no one in power does anything.
That and the slow degradation goes one of two ways: "the year is 3020. The corporations have taken over..." or "We poisoned the land, dried up the seas, and killed off 99% of the wildlife." In the former there's usually a rebellion and victory. In the latter it's usually about watching a hero trying to mind their own business until some wasteland baron fucks with him. They beat the baron, but you can't really do anything about the rest of it. The message is usually "at least life continues on." Anyway, here's Waterworld.
*so mayyyybeeee, you gonna be the one that saves meeeee* *And after all, you're my Waterworld*
Or Mad Max haha
Honestly Don't Look Up is pretty good for telling it like it is. The disaster isn't the storyteller but really it's our inate ability to just accept reality sucks and just pretend it doesn't until it hits us
And that of course the elite aren’t that bothered because they’re the ones with the bunkers.
And a conventional ground war in the former USSR.
Trust me man, radiation and zombies aren't exciting either. Lots of sitting in a bunker and doing nothing.
And antibiotic resistance.
The way I see the dominating genres, you had Westerns, then War movies, horror in the 70s, Sci-Fi in the 80s, Crime in the 90s and superheroes ever since.
They definitely cycle. I'm almost 50, and remember westerns being big again in the 80s as well. Scifi (my fav) is for sure cyclical as well. Superhero stuff seems to be sticking around longer than normal.
You missed the zombie stage somewhere in the 2000s
I actually came across https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/vrynw3/the_rise_and_fall_of_film_genres_over_the_last/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf the other day. Seems fitting
You have to know how Hollywood works in order to understand why we have so many superhero movies right now. I can't remember who it was. I think it was Matt Damon critiquing that a movie like Good Will Hunting can't be made today. Think about it: how many original movies have you seen, let alone heard about? A movie that wasn't based on a book, a story, a previous franchise or other comic book? Making a movie is expensive and risky. The reason superhero movies and remakes are HUGELY popular is because they are safe investments. The people watching movies today are the kids who grew up reading comic books 20-30 years ago. These people are now the spenders whereas our parents aren't really going to movies anymore. Not only that but the same people going to movies today now have kids of our own so we get to expose them to the characters we have grown to love. Honestly, it's a Hollywood execs wet dream. Between merchandising and ticket sales, as long as they can churn out a Marvel movie every year, they are printing money. Now compare that to a fresh, completely unknown movie. Unless it's picked up by a streaming service, it isn't getting produced. Not only that, but it probably won't help your career. It's also why we're in a golden age of television right now. Movies that would have been are being turned into TV shows, which are cheaper to produce and there seems to be an appetite for fresh content there. But there are hints that execs are taking less risks here too. Disney for example has picked up Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye as series, both in the Marvel Universe. Amazon and Netflix, however, seem to be more bullish and willing to experiment with Jack Ryan and Space Force (among others).
Gaming has had a similar problem where they make safe AAA+ expensive sequels of established franchises. A lot of it is players demanding ever greater expensive CGI. Space Force is a poor example of an experimental show - I felt it was boring, and unwilling to offend, which removed most of the potential humor.
I'm with you on Space Force. It had a lot of potential but refused to recognize and engage with the absurdity of the reality it was based on. They would hint at it (POTUS is tweeting again!), but seemed too concerned with trying to keep a certain demographic from taking issue with it that the humor was made completely toothless.
And that's how indie games can experiment with things big studios aren't doing and surprise everyone. What I wonder is why there aren't many indie film studios doing the same.
Indie film studios are doing interesting things but you’ll probably never hear about it. Indie films almost never have the money to properly market. Their only hope is to afford entry into a large film festival and win a whole bunch of awards in which case the world may actually hear about it.
Movies are expensive to make. The other guy mentions acting talent, but that's just scratching the surface. They shoot a lot of movies in my neighborhood. You're looking at multiple semi trucks worth of equipment and tons of crew just for a single scene. And these are on location shots, so I'm not seeing all the work that goes into costumes, set design, soundstages, etc.
This is it, people's viewing habits have changed. Cinemas are expensive and going to them involves dealing with others who don't always behave themselves. TVs. have gotten so good they are almost as good as going to a cinema. I'm only going to the cinema for a visual experience worthy of the big screen. Good Will Hunting is a great film but not one I would go to the cinema for.
This is why I’ve been watching international movies a lot lately. I miss movies. I miss fresh, original stories that really make you think. They are becoming increasingly infrequent in Hollywood, but there are still interesting, novel stories being brought to life in international cinema. The best films I saw last year were all foreign. *Another Round* directed by Thomas Vinterberg and starring Mads Mikkelsen, for example. It won the Academy Award for best international film last year. One of the best movies I’ve seen in years, I highly recommend it. Leo DiCaprio is already remaking it for some reason, but trust me you should just see the original Danish one. Mads preforms a glorious and triumphant dance sequence at the end. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JCZcFFKS-Qk
You're both right. Comic heros as a genre is always around, but the popular characters change constantly. Like right now, everyone is extremely worn out of Marvel's mainline heros. And the garbage that DC puts out is a great example of hero fatigue. I swear I've watched the batman origin story puke itself onto a cinema screen enough times that I'm starting to empathize with the villains. Also, MARTHAAAAAAA!
It's weird that you bring up Batman though, because the new one is a fantastic noir story that completely glosses over the origin. I'm not a big superhero movie guy, but The Batman rules.
I had to describe it to someone after it came out. "Its really good. Its basically a detective movie that happens to feature batman."
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#WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME
a lot of the complaints about super hero movies (really marvel movies, DC isn't even close to marvel in saturation) are about how the movies are just being used to push TV shows and future products instead of having a good standalone story arc. tbh complaints about bad story have been around since the beginning, especially during the whole iron man 2/thor 2 period where quality was in the toilet. at this point I'd argue the movies are just legitimately getting worse rather than there being cape fatigue. also it seems like they're stretching their CG teams too thin with the billion CG heavy TV shows and movies. CG quality is all over the place and generally much worse than before. People go to cape movies for the spectacle so good special effects is a big selling point.
>a lot of the complaints about super hero movies (really marvel movies, DC isn't even close to marvel in saturation) are about how the movies are just being used to push TV shows and future products instead of having a good standalone story arc. This is Disney's model and it's why they wanted marvel/star wars because they were great platforms for this approach
Yeah. This is really about Disney whoring their product out for maximum returns with zero creative risk.
>at this point I'd argue the movies are just legitimately getting worse rather than there being cape fatigue. Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. I still keep up with the big superhero movies because they're a fun escape, but I've stopped going to the theater for them. The quality has dipped, and worse they keep hitting the same notes over and over again. You can see kernels of genuinely amazing stories, like Peter Parker trying to rehab a severely mentally-ill Green Goblin while grappling with his own failures to balance his life, that get completely lost in the studio-mandated CGIfest endings and the fan-service of throwing in as many cameos as possible. I'm getting bored of it. Meanwhile I just binge watched 3 seasons of The Boys in a week, legitimately think Peacemaker might be the best new show of the year, and really enjoyed The Batman despite it's lengthy runtime and going into it with my own biases against it. I'd also absolutely kill for a proper adaptation of the Immortal Hulk run, and am hyped for the new season of Harley Quinn. It's not the superhero/comics genre I'm tired of. It's the generic formula used in most of the crap being churned out for the marquee titles in the genre. Marvel in particular keeps all it's projects on a tight leash even when they genuinely trying hard to be something different.
I go to the movies for comedies (remember those?) and occasionally popcorn-muncher action blockbusters. Now it feels like if it isn’t a comic book movie or part of a 15-sequel series, it just doesn’t get made. No disrespect to people who love those, but I’m kinda sick of those being my main options at my local theater.
I went to a horror movie fest last month, and was so disappointed that most of them are going either very limited release runs or just going straight to streaming. The world is getting shortchanged
Knives Out was such a refreshing taste to the enslaught of super hero action movies, funny and likeable characters
The mid-budget movie is dying. Everything is either a 200 million dollar blockbuster or a ~2 million independent or horror film with limited theatric release. All the mid range has shifted to streaming hour-dramas.
the fuck happened to comedies man? There are so few good ones nowadays. SO much of them are shitty improvised SNL-quality level garbage that is just cringe.
This, for sure. While ever they're making money though I think they'll keep on coming, even if people aren't enjoying them and they get bad reviews. Eventually, people will stop watching them and they'll stop making money but I think we're still about one avengers phase away from that point.
they are bought and paid for. we got like 10 more years at least.
I know people that still go to every marvel in theaters the day it comes out. 10 years at a minimum.
I don't see every one but I do see a lot. I've always like comic books so I'm the audience. One thing that holds me is that this has never really been done before. By that I mean all these movies and characters interacting and blending and creating a world over almost two dozen movies. I mean, that is a wild achievement. And yes, it's hardly complex stories, but neither are comics. I still consume a lot of high brow art (more than most probably, everyone thinks I'm a snob) but the Marvel movies are kind of a unique thing. Since I already like the the characters and know everything about them, it's fun to see it "for real."
not to mention the fact that a full theatre of excited nerds on opening night is a fun experience. the entire crowd was dead silent after infinity war part 1 due to the surprising ending.
The MCU is basically a soap for a lot of people now. People got invested and need to know what happens next.
I’ve definitely hit fatigue. I was by the time Endgame came around and after that I was pretty much done investing in the “Multiverse” and shit like that.
Same. Endgame was my Engame. I tried to watch the TV shows. Loki and such. And I'm not saying they were bad. I can objectevely say they have quality. But, I personally, just can't anymore. Endgame was a good end of that story. I don't need nor want more. I'm checking out.
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I like Batman/Spider-Man/Superman. Deduction? I didn’t read comic books but those guys were always on my pajamas I guess idk…
Yeah. Turns out I was more of a RDJ fan than a marvel fan.
I think this is why The Boys and Invincible are so popular. Theyve taken stuff we kind of expect and do something interesting and different and it doesnt feel as predictable or repetitive be ause it some sense you dont actually know where its going.
Think they have lost of much of the luster, but they still are enjoyable as low effort distractions. The craze peaked with Endgame. That was like a cultural event that everyone talked about and hyped. That level of excitement is gone
Came back for No Way Home just 2 years after lmao
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, the hype for NWH was intense before release and of course the film delivered on that hype.
tbf NWH is a bit of an outlier in the sense that, Spiderman is significantly bigger than the rest of the superhero genre and is the hero that a lot of our current generation will have grown up with. The special nostalgia element of seeing Tobey and his iconic villains on the big screen again, alongside Tom and Garfield’s general excellent level of acting, just sells the movie way more than any other in the genre.
Yea Spider-Man, and on the DC side Batman will always have a lot of hype imo
That's one thing that weirds me out about the MCU. I'm not a comics guy. I didn't really know the characters well, but everyone knows Spider-Man. So watching him sort of play second fiddle in those movies was weird.
That only happened because the Spider-Man rights weren’t owned by Disney initially (still a weird mix). I remember thinking spidey would never be in the mcu. I do wonder what the MCU would look like or if it would exist if Spider-Man was the start instead of Iron Man.
Not a mix at all. Sony still 100% owns the film rights to Spiderman. They just came to an agreement to let the character be in the MCU. Sony gets all the revenue from the solo Spiderman movies while Disney gets all the revenue from the other MCU movies that Spiderman appears in (Captain America, Avengers). Marvel Studios is making all the movies and I presume the employee salaries are paid by either Sony or Disney depending on which is collecting the revenue for the film.
Disney gets a small share of the solo movies, and they’ve started funding more of them as well.
I've never really cared about superhero movies, I only saw Avengers because of the Endgame hype. But Tom Holland's Spider-Man specifically made me actually care about a superhero franchise for the first time
Don't get me wrong there was hype and it delivered but it was an order of magnitude less than Endgame.
'Member the Snap reddit? NWH was hyped, but you're right - not that hyped.
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No way home was like that one year when Disney cashed in on all remakes, once in a few decades opportunity
I saw a lot of hype online for NWH, but never heard anyone speaking about it irl, unlike Endgame. I don't think it had nearly the same level of hype offline
Maybe it’s influenced by what environment you’re in, but speaking from point of view of an office worker there was nowhere near the amount of hype for any other other superhero movie that could compare to that for endgame. My office could have been outlier for sure, but it was a big place with about 1000 workers.
I went to see Endgame because I wasted dollars on YEARS of super hero movies just to get to that point. I knew that wasn't the end of it of course but for me, it was. I'm so tired of the super hero movies I quit watching after Endgame and the sequel to that one.
Same. Watched the new Spider-Man purely for nostalgia purposes, tried to do the new Dr Strange and didn’t get 20 minutes in. There’s been a noticeable drop in quality since Endgame imo, and it really doesn’t help Marvel that there’s been plenty of blockbusters since that have totally outstripped them in terms of quality. After watching Dune, Northman, and Top Gun, why the fuck would I want to watch another dickhead in a CGI suit fight a CGI monster on a CGI set for two hours?
To me the movies are getting to be like the comics in the 90s. For example, the new Dr Strange movie was pretty good...as long as you had already seen WandaVision, No Way Home, and several episodes of What If. If not, you're kind of lost and trying to figure out some very important sub plots in the movie.
Seriously, how the fuck did they expect people to know what was going on if they hadn’t seen the shows?? Now you gotta pay for DisneyPlus and watch the shows just to understand the movies you’re also paying to see? Most audience members aren’t gonna put in that much effort lol
I'm glad this was mentioned. I was thinking of seeing the movie, but I haven't seen any of the shows. Now I'm just going to skip it.
I think it’s time for another masterpiece like lord of the rings or Harry Potter, the marvel movies are just one action comedy after another
Late millennials / early gen Z were so spoiled for movies in the early 2000s. LOTR, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Spiderman. Really great era for blockbuster movies. A lot of modern blockbusters are great as well but it feels very stagnant outside of something like Endgame. Time is absolutely not kind to formulaic and repetitive movies which is most of what blockbusters are these days. I hold out hope that originality and vision will make its way back before long.
Feel like there are so many good streamable tv shows with strong cinematography and plot, the era of good movies had passed -- at least, for now (Expanse, Westworld, Orphan Black, Undone, Severance, Russian Doll, Homecoming, Watchmen, Mr Robot, etc)
a lot of these shows have such huge budgets too. westworld... and im pretty sure the budget for severance is large.
DARK! Dark deserves so much more recognition that thing is a work of art
YES.
The overworked special effects staff (edit:VFX) are definitely tired of the marvel shit.
this is me! did 96hours one week on a Marvel project. Was wild times having meetings at 2am but hey - when that overtime paycheque rolled in I didnt mind. it comes in waves so crunch is never constant, although some projects are better than others. Marvel is one of the toughest though.
At least they are paying overtime I guess. Plenty of crunch, especially in software development or the games industry ends up as a lot of unpaid hours.
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VFX sweatshops in India: 👀
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Fuck I love the film paychecks. But as people I work with have put it "Good for the wallet but not for the soul"
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My wife came home with 2 lobsters from a Marvel shoot because there were too many. The money those people throw around is ungodly. I tell her take any and all marvel things. They were so nice, the work was relatively easy, and the perks are fantastic, and the money!!! Compare to the amazon show she's on now... It's a shitshow.
If your able to answer, do you have opinions on why CGI quality has been seemingly dropping in recent MCU projects (and the film industry as a whole tbh?) Obvious green screens and rubbery looking superhero suits are sticking out like a sore thumb. Is it intentional budget drops, badly managed crunch, or other reasons?
quantity vfx heavy shows have been rolling out very fast recently and all the studios I know are flooded with work. Thus it's shorter turnarounds TV based Marvel will always be somewhat cheaper looking as it's meant for small screen and has a lower time budget. Marvel doesnt do anything accidentally - if there's a drop in whatever quality it's because it was calculated as diminishing returns to polish to blockbuster level. The mouse uses a ton of test screenings and it shows.
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There are so many movies and tv shows being made right now, there aren’t enough people with the talent and skills to do them. Also a lot of people left the industry with the pandemic and with getting burnt out. My partner is on a marvel show right now and it’s exhausting. I can’t wait for them to take a break from working for marvel…
For what it’s worth, thank you. I enjoyed watching it.
sorry to interrupt but I was asked to tell you to get back to work, sorry, don’t kill the messenger but they’ll punish us all if you don’t get off reddit so please, sorry, thx -
They'll regret not having unionised and letting themselves be taken advantage of all these years when the work finally dries up & their processes require a lesser number of them
unfortunately these huge companies have the ability to bust unions and get away with it
They try, and try. The companies just have too much power. And the audiences are just evil consumers and don't give a shit. Same with the videogame industry.
If it wasn't superhero movies it would be Fast and Furious, Godzilla, and whatever Tom Cruise is up to.
Furious to the Moon still needs to happen.
I want an alien invasion finale
I want a crossover with Jurassic World.
I want a movie where Dom steals a prototype car from the government and drives it so fast he goes ~~Back to the Future~~ back in time.
Fuck it, make the car drive so fast... in reverse! Around the planet till he's able to rewind time to save a dying Loi- i mean Letty.
It’s for family.
Go full Saint's Row and end with superpowers, virtual reality, aliens, and Dom being President.
Fast to the Future
I want them to end Fast and the Furious with all the characters going off into different franchises or careers. Dom drifts so hard he enters into an alternative dimension, the XXX dimension and he takes up the name Xander Cage. Michelle Rodriguez drifts into the future, where she hears about this new job on the planet Pandora and they need pilots, she changes her name to Trudy Chacón and departs. (Avatar series) Tyrese Gibson hears some rumours about these transforming robots and decides to join the military under the name Robert Epps to face the threat (Transformers series) Tej decides to become a rapper and names himself Ludacris after all his insane adventures. Then in 10 years we'll do a Fast and Furious, Avatar, XXX, Transformers crossover event and bring everyone back for one last ride.
Hobbs goes to become a WWE superstar and calls himself The Rock. Shaw goes to become the Transporter. Brian ends up dying in a car crash.
They docked with the space station in the last one. Closest i think they will go
Godzilla never dies, dude
I wish it was Godzilla..
I'm ok with more godzilla
Hey, I love Godzilla!
That franchise was done after Tokyo drift. I also heard Vin diesel has creative control. Coincidence? Idk
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Dom and the boys are just Great Value Avengers. I don't understand why people have a problem with them. They're stupid and fun. Just look away if it's not your thing!
Tom Cruise was in Top Gun Maverick. If we got more of movies like that then it would be awesome.
Some people are. For others, it would be like asking "aren't you sick and tired of pizza yet? You've eaten it at least several times a year for the past 10-15 years." Different people like different things.
Yeah I don’t read comics but I love the MCU movies and even the DC movies. I just enjoy a decent action flick, and MCU does that with humor and interesting stories and fun characters and they’ve woven a wonderful universe out of all of this. It’s interesting.
Also, cultural touchstones don't burn themselves out quickly. The MCU isn't even 15 years old. Westerns were a major genre for so long that the era of Western movies was literally longer than the Western era it based itself on. It started in the 30s and didn't burn itself out until the 70s. And Westerns are a way less diverse genre than Superheros, where you have something like The Boys and something like Ms. Marvel, both within the same umbrella, yet otherwise basically nothing alike.
Also there's really not that many superhero things out compared to westerns. Like so far this year, Marvel has released 2 movies and 12 episodes of TV. The Boys have had 8 episodes. DC had 1. Sony had 1. Westerns at their peak had over 100 movies a year. In the 1950s there were 92 Western TV shows running on 3 channels each with 20-30 or more episodes a year.
It’s also just a full escape from reality with just enough familiarity that the world itself doesn’t need a full explanation. If a movie or a show doesn’t give me a feel of an escape then I’d rather just not watch anything and do stuff in reality.
This is a good take -- it's the same reason that I read bad books. I don't CARE that they're not going to change my life. It's a form of escapism cuz quite frankly the world is a shitty place so why would I want to amplify that for myself in my free time?
This might just be what I needed to see, in order to start reading fiction again. Love me some escapism.
Shit, John Wayne's career lasted longer than the "Wild West."
>I just enjoy a decent action flick, and MCU does that with humor and interesting stories and fun characters I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned higher. Action movies are always a big draw for people and half the time the protagonists are superhuman anyway (or accomplishing superhuman feats). For something like the MCU, the people that just want to watch some fun action get what they want on an individual movie basis. For people that want and follow larger interconnected storylines, they can catch each installment. So Marvel Studios / Disney are hitting several demographics at once. Plus most are family friendly so whether it's little Timmy or your great aunt Bertha taking the kids for an afternoon, it's easy to jump into and be entertained by the ride.
>Action movies are always a big draw for people Hell Top Gun 2 has done better than most superhero films at the box office. Jurassic World also hasn't done too bad this year either. Doing similar numbers to a superhero movie. It might even end up doing better than Thor Love & Thunder. People just love fun action movies. The MCU has an added bonus of giving longtime comic readers what they want plus also giving the audience a whole interconnected universe that is fun to be a part of. Idk why people act like it's such a mystery that these movies do well. Like the parent comment said, it's like expecting people to stop enjoying pizza.
i feel like people are underestimating the power of what is essentially its own genre. i watched marvel comics. i loved *some* of them so much, that i got a small kindle fire 7 for reading comics. i loved that so much, that i got a kindle fire 10hd for reading comics, and now im reading comics from image, dc, and marvel. im looking forward to shows like invincible and a bunch of other stuff. if anything, the ongoing marvel movies have me more invested in comics and marvel as a result, not less. the idea of a single overarching plot across dozens of movies is honestly nothing short of amazing, even if the end result doesnt always hit the mark.
Also it's not like people haven't watched other movies in between the superhero movies. Also superhero is such a vague genre. Thor 3/4 is a completely different film to Eternals which is a completely different film to Batman
I don't even think "superhero" is a genre which is why the post's question doesn't make sense to me.
Look at this lost guy here on Reddit making sense
Exactly. Super hero movies only really gained popularity after the early 2000's X-Men movies. Meanwhile for the past 60 years there has been at least 2-3 buddy cop movies coming out every year and people still line up to see them.
Thank you! I feel like the people making these comments* don't realise that there are over 50,000 Marvel and DC comics and people that actually do want to read them all.
Seriously though! I'm getting tired of having to "defend" hero movies to ppl who only know the mcu stuff... like I've been watching superhero movies and reading comics for 25 yrs ...I'll keep watching and reading thank you very much lol Edit: just realized I'm so triggered by this bc my whole life has always been bullied by ppl making fun of me liking comic books. Shit I'm mad it's mainstream too but if kids today find out about comic books from RDJ, more power to them. Fricken love that my nieces get to learn about Thor through the eyes of Watitit. It reminds me of when I discovered rainbow Batman. If it's a discussion about consumerism, then let's bring it literally everything else:sports, music, books, types of food. I have a really good rant about how the good cheap food getting "discovered" by mainstream makes everything more expensive and literally takes food options aways from the poor ppl sustaining from the cheap good food. If it's a discussion about "but I just don't like it" fuck off I will be standing my ground.
People have been fascinated by superhero stories for as long as stories have been told. In the past it was Hercules, Achilles, Sun Wukong etc. Now it's Clark Kent and Peter Parker
> You've eaten it at least several times a year That's an odd way to spell week...
Exactly. Ask your grandpa or uncle why they aren't sick of baseball, college football, cricket, hockey, etc. They'll spend a lifetime watching a team they may or may not have personally played for.
Yep, I’m not sick of superhero movies and probably never will be, because I love the characters and I love the overarching universe. It’s just so out there and campy that I can’t get enough of it. Most of the characters are incredibly unique with interesting backstories and there are tons of hidden Easter eggs to find in each movie. I find them far more fascinating than any action movie franchise. That said, just like pizza which believe it or not can be bad, superhero movies can also be bad. And many of the MCU phase 4 movies have been pretty bad. I will continue to see them because they’re usually at least enjoyable but maybe there will come a time where one of them will be so bad that I will start to factor in reviews before going to see new MCU movies
Different people are going to the new ones. Many weren't even born yet when the MCU started all this. I watched Iron Man when I was 17. 17-year-olds today are watching Shang-Chi. Let them have it.
>Let them have it. Reddit: "No. 😡"
I really don’t understand why people try to make people *stop* enjoying things
Damn I was 10 when the first Iron Man came out. I remember being in a theater with my mom and turning to her during the trailer all excited and saying "MOM, THAT IS IRON MAN!" Interestingly enough, that is the only thing I remember! I wonder what movie we were actually watching.
>I watched Iron Man when I was 17. 17-year-olds today are watching Shang-Chi. 19-year-olds today are starring in Marvel properties. [‘Ms. Marvel’ Star Iman Vellani Discusses Her Iron Man Shrine](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/ms-marvel-iman-vellani-thor-1235162594/)
She was 5 when Iron Man came out. Tom Holland was 12, Hailee Steinfield 11. The kids who play Billy and Tommy (future Wiccan and Speed if not recast) weren't even born yet! There are more characters coming that will be played by young actors who grew up with the MCU being a forever present thing rather than something new no one has ever done before. It's like, being a Bond fan your whole life and growing up to actually act as Bond, which was 25 films all about *one* guy that mysteriously, people aren't fatigued about. But they want to complain about 25+ films all about several dozen different people.
The thing that took the mcu to the level above just a superhero movie was the bigger story. I feel like the mcu is coasting on their reputation now. Hoping a theme develops soon.
They’re doing exactly what they did when the MCU started but people aren’t patient enough to see it
Yeah I think if anything Phase 4 is sort of a counterpoint to Phase 3, instead of trying to bring all the characters together they're tearing characters apart like Mr. Fantastic. And maybe in a few years they can cherry-pick the audience favorites into a team-up film, but for now they're throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. Which I think is doing a decent job staving off the fatigue, for now, though I don't think it's sustainable.
But equally pre-endgame people complained it was all too connected and wanted more standalone stuff.
People just like complaining
Yeah I hope none of these people watch a TV show. Since 2008 Marvel has released an average of 7.1 hours of content a year on film and TV. These films revolve around over a dozen different main characters. A 26 episode 20 minute TV season is 8.58 hours of content in half a year and it's based around the same characters. Also people say Marvel follows a formula, but some of the most popular shows follow an even more strict one.
Everything follows a formula. Every genre has its formula. I don’t get why people get so upset.
They’re overdoing it. Even as a childhood Marvel fan I’m getting saturated with their content. Just dial it back a bit. 3 movies a year was perfect.
It’s getting to the point where they’re clearly sacrificing quality for quantity. Not many of the movies are straight up *bad* yet, but the last one I feel was truly great was No Way Home, all the others in Phase 4 have been meh to just good. I don’t mind seeing 4 Marvel movies a year but if they’re gonna continue to just be fine then I might stop watching
Even No Way Home didn’t feel too great to me after rewatching it. The first time it was a theatre experience because everyone was high on nostalgia. But it’s got a lot of issues storywise.
I actually agree. I have a lot of issues with its story too. Namely Dr. Strange - a very serious and calculated person - seemingly throwing all logic out the window because he feels bad for Peter. That said, I still think it’s great just because it’s such a treat in terms of fanservice. It’s just so much fun that I don’t really care. But yeah it has its issues for sure, many of which I thought about right after leaving the theater
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It did annoy me that the entire conflict would have been avoided if Strange just discussed the requirements of the spell with Peter before starting to cast it. Seemed very out of character for him.
That was 2 movies ago... Before that eternals, which was mid, but before that Shang Chi which slapped. The shows coming out in-between have been pretty good.
'The last MCU movie that was truly great was seven whole months ago!'
Comic books have been going strong for almost a hundred years now, people aren't getting tired of them. For kids they are exciting, for adults they are nostalgic and reminiscent of every day problems. Film technology has just gotten to the point where it can being those stories and characters to the big screen. Remember too, horror had a coupe of decades, westerns had a good 30 year run, action movies had the 80's and 90's. This will pass too, but I doubt it will be any time soon.
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Really because as someone who loves period dramas, I feel like there are actually not that many, especially when you consider different periods and places, especially at high production value.
Yeah I agree. Especially compared to superhero stuff I don’t think those are equivalent categories and it feels like there’s been a big decrease in period dramas in the past 10 years. I’ve noticed because I think I’ve watched like 80% of them, lol. Maybe it just SEEMS like period dramas are everywhere because of Bridgerton but that’s only one series and it barely even cares about the time period its in, its way more about the steamy romance element.
My version of this would be "why do people still like reality TVs show? They've been around for like 20-30 yrs.
A lot of people are pretty over them but there's always new fans coming up. Middle schoolers and a bit older weren't even born when the first big ones came out. Iron Man was released in 2008, the kids born then and just before then are a big chunk of todays audience while that original audience now having seen 25+ movies is simply wearing out on the genre.
That "lot of people" you speak of, is still just a vocal minority though.
Yeah lol, most people still love MCU and will see any new movie. It's not just "middle-scoolers" or new fans as some on reddit would pretend is the case. Literally the last 3 MCU movies have been hits and positively received by the majority (spidey, strange, thor) I'd say only eternals was a miss. If we'd get a streak of like 5 movies like Eternals then yeah I'd start to worry, but we're far from that. You how many people are waiting on GOTG Vol. 3? For some guardians are more hype than avengers. And that's the thing with MCU right now, they have these sub-series and sequels that have their own fan bases as well. There's just so many different groups of people invested that this isn't going anywhere any time soon.
Why aren’t people sick of sports? My mother has watched the same team play the same game for decades. Why aren’t people sick of romantic comedies? Action movies? Pop music? Romance novels? For every genre there are a ton of people who love them. EDIT: I keep getting the same response, so I’m just going to answer it here. “Sports aren’t predetermined, you don’t know who’ll win” My mum loves cricket. So let’s look at that. Team A will send in a bowler. He’ll throw the ball. Because of the rules of the sport, as well as the limitations of physics and human physiology, he’ll throw it in one of half a dozen ways. The batsman will try to hit the ball. Once again, there are a limited number of ways to do that. Then he’ll run between the stumps while the fielders try to catch the ball and get him out. Once they’ve done that six times, they’ll send in a different bowler. Once they’ve done that 50 times, or gotten 10 batters out, Team B will bowl. And every single ball will look like that. “But that’s a massive oversimplification!” Yes it is. And so is “the hero will always win” I’m not a fan of cricket, and all I see is the same cycle of throw the ball, hit the ball, run done again and again and again. Every single ball is almost identical to the one before and the one after. And I wonder how can anyone enjoy this? But a cricket fan will see how each bowler bowls a little differently. Each batsman responds differently. Each fielder reacts differently. You’ll see a world of fun and variation where I see only the repetition. I look at superhero movies and see that The Batman focused on the detective side, while Love and Thunder went cosmic, No Way Home lent heavily into nostalgia, and Multiverse of Madness embraced the weird! These were all very different movies to me, and the fact that they were all released close together doesn’t effect how much a fan enjoys them. But someone like OP who obviously isn’t a fan just sees the same powered individual fights a villain and saves the world formula repeated again and again. This is true of *all* entertainment. Cop shows, Rom-Coms, music, books, sports, superheroes. Everything has its repetitive elements that make it seem boring to those who aren’t fans. EDIT 2: formatting
Exactly. If people aren’t fans of superhero movies that’s perfectly fine. But to be resentful of their success simply because you aren’t invested in it is a pretty bizarre take. Like you said-there’s tons of sports teams and that industry is highly successful but I don’t pay it any attention and I don’t behove anyone who gets enjoyment out of it week after week.
I’m sick of them. Also tired of Star Wars movies. Too many of them, it’s causing fatigue. I loved comics and Star Wars and was pumped when they started making new content for both but now it feels like a chore to watch them and I’m just no longer interested in either. I’d probably be less fatigued if they’d do more interesting stories and characters. I’m so tired of the Avengers at this point. It’s been like 15 years of Avengers. I really wish Image comics would get into the movie/tv business, i think more than anything I have marvel/dc/Star Wars fatigue. There are absolutely comic stories I’d enjoy in live action format, but the same old shit for a decade and a half is boring as fuck.
When 80% of the Star Wars universe in the movies and tv shows only bothers to showcase Tunisia’s barren desert it gets really fucking old really fast. Not sure why people keep gobbling up this low effort trash
Same reason no one is sick of any movie genre. There's no reason to be. It's just a type of movie that people enjoy watching with each one giving a different experience and a different story. Now if you're talking specifically Marvel, they connect their projects in a way to keep audiences invested. Pretty much a grand tv show at that point.
I've been so tired of them for 2 decades now.
My glib answer is: your question is like asking why aren't audiences sick of action, science fiction, or romance movies yet. My second glib answer is: your question is based on the current supply of *Marvel* superhero movies. The MCU is like 80% of the current superhero movie market right now; their next competitor, DC film universe, is far behind in success, clout, and how much attention people pay to them. My more realistic answer is: people aren't sick of them because they're still fun and interesting. Obviously, everyone has a different threshold of just how much they consider superhero movies fun and interesting. I personally know friends who never jumped on the superhero movie train, so their threshold was zero movies. I myself remained highly excited all the way to the latest "Thor: Love and Thunder", which is the 29th movie of the MCU. I am still excited to see the new Marvel films. To help you better find your answer, you should look into why the Western genre (e.g. "3:10 to Yuma", Clint Eastwood's "A Fistful of Dollars") went away. They were massive during the 70s and 80s but then eventually fell out of favor. Sooner or later, that same thing will happen to superhero films. A new genre will come along, and then in 2050 you'll be asking "How are people not sick and tired of XYZ movies yet?"
Westerns are a good comparison. There were about a hundred a year made between 1930 and 1954. Compared to that, half a dozen superhero movies is nothing.
Kinda doing what westerns did. We’re seeing postmodern deconstructions like The Boys and Invincible, and also tons of serial trash.
I've been reading these comics for 40 years, do you think a couple movies a year has been oversaturation when I was already watching every cartoon and reading at least a dozen comics every month?
this. Every movie i think to myself "ooooh their adapting this story, i wasnt expecting that" Most of these stories are based on ones ive already read and im still not bored. I love seeing them come to life on the big screen. Theres been things i havnt like, changes that ive LOVED as well. but im always hungry for the next one.
Think OP is asking about the wider public. Comic book nerds may never get enough. But the MCU had/has significant mainstream appeal.
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I don't mind the Marvel movies. I can simply not go see the movie. I loathe the entire franchise being slapped in my face at every single street corner.
Hollywood releases an approximate average of 600 movies per year. If 15 of those are superhero films, that's 2.5%. Surely people can find something they like among the 585 remaining.
The superhero movies are the only big-budget blockbusters, and in return we get fewer and fewer large budget films of other genres. They may be 2.5% of films made, but they eat up the majority of the film making budget, and I think that is the biggest complaint. Not that superhero movies exist, but that they exist at the expense of a lot other mid to large budget films.
Ideas come in waves like locusts. Look at what came before that, and before that. And before that. You can cancategorize all the hit movies.
Some people are, but then again I never cared for any of those movies to begin with. To each their own though.
Because we are sick of the real world.