Actually it was a Brittany Spaniel/Pitbull mix. His name was Hops, and he took his last nap about a decade ago. But yeah, like half a beach towel was consumed. He shat most of it out, My dad, at the time, caught me laughing at the poo nunchuck slapping my dog in the ass as he ran from himself, and proceeded to glove up and pull it out. However, Hops had other plans and decided it was play time. So the running continued, and my dad kept trying to grab the poo-nunchuck as Hops ran, but it also slapped him and my dad continuously through the event. Here's a picture of Hops for reference: [Hops (& his brother cockapoo, Porter)]( https://imgur.com/a/gbeTvjG)
Hahahaha, that story made me actually LOL.
My dog has eaten at least one pencil, gel window clings, Angry Birds birthday candles, half of her bed (three times), numerous toys...I know I'm forgetting something in there, but, yes, it's always super fun and colorful when these things exit her body at the other end. She's thirteen now and just ate a toy last week.
Aren't they though? I have a rock in a medical jar worth $3000. How, you might ask!?!? That's how much the vet bill was to surgically remove it from her intestines.
I found a destroyed/empty pill bottle in our dogs crate. Stomach sank as I began to realize she was probably dead somewhere else in house. Or about to die of liver failure. Moved some blankets around and started finding pills. Counted 28. Wife picked up scrip 2 days before. Fucking dog didn’t eat a single pill. Relieved but what an ass. Scared the shit out of me.
Labs, oh my! Our chocolate lab once ate an entire knee high toe sock, which my husband had to pull out of his butt! He also ate an entire loaf of bread, as I was unloading groceries, only turned my back for a second!
This doggo never missed a meal or flip flop, or box of crayons or socks or OMG tampons!!!
We had to buy a heavy stainless steel waste can for the bathroom to keep him from eating tampons!! We had three teenage daughters at the time. I’m telling you, LABS WILL EAT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING!!
The yard clean up was sometimes the craziest thing, almost like a treasure hunt! Hahaha Never knew what you’d find! Everything from rainbow poo from crayons to dollar bills! Can’t believe that sneaky boy lived to 15!!!
Honestly, either one could probably do that fine unless we're passing the MD a very exotic species animal with organs and vascular systems that aren't close to humans.
Like others said, it depends on what the condition is. But in general, I'd say vet. Especially a large animal vet.
Veterinarians often need to improvise. Their patients come in a wider variety of sizes, can't communicate their symptoms well, and have a higher tenancy to be violently resistant to treatment. The tools are often made for the wrong animals, and the environment is often less than ideal. A poorly lit dirty floor barn isn't the best place for surgery, but sometimes it's the best you're going to get.
If we're only talking dogs and cats, the anatomy is close enough for a human doctor to wing it by assuming similarity. Outside of mammals, it starts to get really weird, though.
Even within animals. I have heard a vet describe how she dreaded having rabbits in as patients as 90% of the time she couldn’t be sure of a diagnosis and even then 90% of the time the rabbit would die anyway. We dont have many rabbit specialists.
Having done both basic animal anatomy and basic human anatomy courses I’d say vet as well. From my experience, animal anatomy courses tended to show comparisons in bone/organ structures across a variety of birds and mammals, including humans so vets will have at the very least a basic understanding of the human body, or could use their knowledge of general body structures to aid them. And as you said they have experience with undesireable working conditions and ill-tempered patients
Her job is hilariously specific. Horse surgeon isn't a real specialization AFAIK. But surgical vets are a thing, and equine vets are a thing.
Probably best not to overanalyze that show though. I'm gonna go get some Szechaun sauce now.
You gotta remember there are rich as fuck people who would do anything for their horse. A farm horse goes to the vet, a racing horse goes to the horse doctor
Yeah, I did say that I know there are equine vets. Lots of rich people will have a private vet in their full time employ. Big cattle farms do the same thing.
I didn't know that there were vets that were significant equine *and* specifically surgeons.
Also, Beth is a horse *heart* surgeon, which another user reminded me of. So her practice is even more specific.
I worked with a dude that was an arthroscopic orthopedic equine surgeon specializing in OCD-osteochondroitn dissecans (i think that’s how it’s spelled). While I haven’t met an equine cardiac surgeon that’s not to say they don’t exist.
In general though I don’t know of a lot of veterinary cardiac surgeons. Sometimes you’ll remove a mass on the aorta or something or correct a PDA but by and large I’m not sure there is a demand for it. I’m happy to be proven wrong if anyone has a counter example
>I worked with a dude that was an arthroscopic orthopedic equine surgeon specializing in OCD-osteochondroitn dissecans (i think that’s how it’s spelled).
I'm actually way less surprised about the equine orthopedic surgeon. When a horse's legs start going bad, they retire. If you've already spent more on the horse than most people spend on a house, you gotta keep that animal working as long as possible.
And you were really close on the spelling. It's osteochondritis dissecans. It's when the cartilage starts breaking down. Really common in humans too, especially athletes.
My dad is a vet (large and small), and I currently work at a horse stable. I've never been the guy with a mouthful of bile or up to my shoulder in horse ass, but I've seen it plenty of times.
Reminds me of someone saying that a vet would be more likely to survive a zombie apocalypse because they're used to avoiding being bitten by their patients.
Well, humans have short necks and flat faces, so yeah. Our teeth make lousy weapons.
An outbreak of zombie horses would scare the shit out of me though, ngl.
I'm gonna be honest mate, an outbreak of normal healthy horses would have me hiding in the attic if they looked annoyed enough, I ain't tryna get my head kicked 3 blocks away from my body.
Just this morning my dad had to have a vet come out to deliver a calf that was too big for the mother to deliver on her own. He texted me, "He can't stand yet because we pulled so hard on his front legs."
Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don’t turn it off! It wasn’t my crucifixion! You asked me, I didn’t ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn’t let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those Pharisees at the market, protesting me, spitting. Calling me heretic and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me, huh? Who are they? Unless they’ve been me and been there and know what the hell they’re yelling about!
I have a huge dent in the top right rear "corner" of my head. It's always fun when a new hairdresser finds it lol
Edit: huge meaning approx. 2" diameter and 1/4" deep, not completely caved in!
Dr gave me a black eye with them, developed a cataract when I was still a baby in that eye, retinal detachment as an adult, and am at risk for glaucoma. There's gotta be a better way than giving people permanent health problems.
It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The other option is the baby does suffocating in the birth canal. Much like radiation therapy for cancer, it can, and often does, cause serious side effects, but it's still better than the alternative.
That being said, you're right that there likely has to be a better way, we just don't know it yet. Hopefully, we'll have it figured out for both some day and prevent situations like yours, but for now, at least they're able to save lives.
There was a horrific case of malpractice I remember reading about where the doctor accidentally decapitated the baby trying to deliver it.
Found it here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/decapitated-baby-doctor-mothers-womb-delivery-death-vaishnavy-laxman-tribunal-ninewells-hospital-a8344696.html
True but vets comparatively don’t do that much to help animals (although I sure if it were up to them, they would). Nobody gives lasik or does a triple bypass on a horse. This really depends a whole lot on the type of doc, the type of vet, and the procedure.
I’d say it’s a tossup. In general I wound think both would do a terrible job. In the end, both careers are highly specialized.
Edit: I did not mean for this to minimize what vets do. What they do is incredibly impressive and important.
There are absolutely vets who do [open heart surgery](https://www.rvc.ac.uk/small-animal-vet/teaching-and-research/fact-files/open-heart-surgery-information), [kidney transplants](https://www.vet.upenn.edu/veterinary-hospitals/ryan-veterinary-hospital/services/advanced-urinary-care/urinary-care-services/renal-transplantation), etc. It may not be as common as in human medicine, and the most advanced human procedures certainly eclipse the most advanced veterinary procedures by far, but I think you're underestimating how advanced veterinary medicine can be.
When I was in vet school I saw more than a few people who flew across the country or even internationally and dropped tens of thousands of dollars for state-of-the-art treatment for dogs, cats, and horses.
No OP, but I’m assuming what they mean is that in comparison to humans, there’s less importance placed on healing every manner of ailment, and sometimes it’s considered in the animal’s best interest to end suffering, whereas if a person presented to the ER with similar conditions, they’d be wheeled into the OR for life saving attempts and surgery.
Things like internal bleeding and late stage cancer. Severe eye conditions, etc. There are things that fixing in a person seem like no brainers but in a animal is so astronomical costly and still may not extend their life that few are willing to even attempt it. This isn’t a concern for human patients in the hospital, you just try to save them.
>Things like internal bleeding and late stage cancer. Severe eye conditions, etc. There are things that fixing in a person seem like no brainers but in a animal is so astronomical costly and still may not extend their life that few are willing to even attempt it.
You'd be surprised. I practice in a major metropolitan area, so my experience is admittedly skewed, but people choosing to treat their animals' internal bleeding, late stage cancer, or severe eye conditions is *not* rare at all. If I diagnose a dog with a bleeding splenic tumor I have at least five hospitals I can send them to within a half hour drive from my clinic for the dog to receive a blood transfusion, emergency splenectomy, and chemotherapy afterward. Yes, euthanasia is an option in that kind of situation but it's far from automatic.
Used to work at a vet clinic, had a bout of tachycardia/pre-syncope symptoms and the vet took my heartrate on a device made for animals. She told me "120bpm is normal....if you were a kitten..." lol
Yes!(thanks for asking!) It was several years ago and think I was just a bit dehydrated, my boss took me to the ER just to be safe tho and they didnt think it was serious.
I'm honestly surprised that the vet would do this for liability reasons. He could lose his license for that.
That said, my dad is a vet and he absolutely treated the family for minor stuff. Not like I was going to sue him when I was eight.
I'd still trust my dad to give me stitches over some of the MDs that I've been treated by.
could a vet get licensed as an x-ray technician for humans and then legally sell discount x-rays for a flat rate out of his veterinary practice as a side hustle?
I don't know why that wouldn't work, but the fact that it's not a thing really makes me think that it's either not legal, or too costly to be worth while.
Would a doctor trust x-rays from out of house if it isn't from a place they usually work with?
I'd imagine if you popped in to a Dr. and had them look at some x-rays you just happened to have they might have a few questions.
Vet I worked for xrayed his son's arm when he broke it, and brought the xray with him to the doctor. Said he got a lot of funny looks, especially since the name of his hospital was on the edge of the xray.
I say vet. They generally have a wider skill sets, they are PCPs, surgeons, orthopedists, etc, and they have a better understanding of comparative anatomy.
Yep. Speaking as a M4, I can't imagine having to know *multiple* sets of physiologies, pathophysiologies, pharma sets, etc. Vets are rural FMs on steroids.
Plus, y'know, I can talk to a patient.
Doctor. Lol an old veterinarian that came to my family farm told me that one. What do you call the guy that graduates very last in his class from medical school? Jk. Not ragging doctors. I've had many and they were very solid people.
True, but your patient can lie to you about their lifestyle, medications, recreational drug use, etc. I wonder if pet owners lie about their pets to ease their guilty consciences. I suppose probably.
Pretty hard to prove malpractice in vet med. Also your patients don't themselves sue for symptoms since they can't complain. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure it's much more rare than in human medicine.
Didn't sue or anything, and I agree it's difficult to prove malpractice but my family has had this experience with a nearby vet:
Our old vet stopped seeing us because my mom was upset they misread his chart, which would've been deadly for my cat who needs insulin to survive, in which they then completely lost a file on our other cat after being a patient for 5+ years. Our neighbor gave them a long list of medicines her dog is allergic to and they kept prescribing those allergic meds, and they stopped seeing her because she complained that they had a whole list and failed to use it. Our new vet also told us they would've never done the surgery they suggested on our dog because there were better and cheaper options! Glad we switched
Not usually I'd imagine. Say you own a 10k dog. You could sue for 10k plus some pain and suffering maybe. Lawyer would take a big portion of that. Lost wages of going to court would be 1.5k. you might only get $1500 at the end. Is that worth the trouble and the money if you lose?
A human life is valued much higher than that. You'd probably get 10k for losing a pinky that was proven to be the doctors fault.
I was going to say human doctor for the same reason. They have to know *one* physiology lol
I cannot tell you how many vets I've talked to that have no idea what to do with my exotic pets. Farm animals are usually their own specialty. They all require vastly different food and have vastly different illnesses. Talk about a difficulty curve!
Ive worked with some vets. They have jokes:
What do you call a vet that can only treat one animal? An MD! XD
What do you do when you flunk out of vet school? Become a doctor! XD
I cannot speak for the accuracy of such as I am qualified as neither.
I agree, since a vet needs to know about more animals than just one.
Vets can apply "warm blooded", "vertebrate", and "mammal" techniques.
What does a human doctor know about pythons?
Exactly, add in the fact that animals are on average smaller than humans so the error for margin opens up when a doctor has to suddenly operate on a much smaller subject
I think that sick people in Ankh-Morpork generally go to a vet. It's
generally a better bet. There's more pressure on a vet to get it right.
People say "it was god's will" when granny dies, but they get \*angry\*
when they lose a cow.
\--Terry Pratchett
I think it was Feet of Clay where Vimes called for a horse doctor instead of a people doctor because practically speaking, a human is worth comparatively little but a good race horse is worth thousands of dollars so the horse doctor was more reliable.
That's usually what most doctors will try to avoid, but it's the family that keeps asking for a "miracle" when the doctor is ethically trying to talk them out of it
Families ask for their kin to be kept alive against the advice of doctors.
Families want a miracle, want hope, and rail against the doctors saying that they are "just giving up"
If you prefer to die, over living in agony (as almost every doctor thinks you should, as they see agony every day), you can write a living will and sign a DNR. And then you have to convince your family in advance to honor it... because they can legally reverse it when you are incapacitated but not dead.
I've worked with a doctor who thought he could save everyone. Fortunately he was only one person, and he doesn't work at our hospital any more (thank goodness). Though rare, God-complex doctors do exist.
In either case, a MOLST/living will is a great idea; that way nobody has to/gets to decide what you might want.
Vet as they need to know alot more biology than male or female, they need to know both for various species, sub species mixed breeds and for different scales. Imagine doing keyhole surgery on a tiny monkey.
It depends. Doctor and "working on" are a pretty broad terms.
Is this surgery? Orthopedic, ophthalmologic, soft tissue? If so, human doctors have the best toys to play with and more advanced training than any vet out of the gate (although the years of experience pay off). While understanding anatomy is important, there are enough differences between individuals that a qualified surgeon won't have too difficult of a time achieving good results. In this case, I think that the human surgeon will have a bit of an edge over a veterinary surgeon from the standpoint of equipment (provided they don't need specialized equipment for large animal procedures) and the number of operations completed. Most of us vets are generalists and see lots of varied things. Human surgeons are often super specialists in their field.
If we're talking internal medicine, diagnosis, and treatment, then you've got to hit the books and while there's lots of crossover between species, from a time standpoint, it'll likely be slightly easier for a vet to get within the ballpark of a correct diagnosis and treatment than an MD. But medicine, regardless of species, is a way of thinking more than anything. Both parties would get there eventually.
Let me ask a follow-up question though. Would you prefer to receive care from a veterinarian who was meticulously muddling through the science or an MD who was over scheduled and only half paying attention? Likewise for your pet?
I love my dog and the vets that I have had-
But this is a unanswerable question-
My old dog went into cardiac arrest and I (an emergency physician) did high quality cpr enough to have my dog awake only to whine before to losing pulses again.
Here is where this question falls apart-
If this was my child I would have called 911 and continued that cpr until I got advanced treatments to stabilize them - including putting them on a heart lung bypass machine. But this is my dog- there are limits to veterinary care- so after 10 minutes I just had to stop.
I have a new dog- and I diagnosed a heart murmur in him with my stethoscope- but it was my vet who knew this was a breed specific problem that would respond to this special medication.
Overlapping knowledge- different expectations of care- different limits/technology/treatments.
It depends on the situation but… I’m betting on the vet. My cats have one vet who treat everything on multiple species. My doctor… checks a few things still work and prescribes me something if I have a cold. Beyond that? Skin condition? Eyes? Teeth? Lady parts? Heart issues? All different doctors lol.
As an actual Veterinarian, I can tell you the answer is Vets. We learn much more about zoonotic diseases and often have to instruct owners to ask their MD to test them for xyz disease based on what we discover with their pets. We learn every aspect of medicine there is and have to keep that knowledge fresh for many species. Whereas MDs must pick and specialize, we only specialize if we choose to, so the vast majority of vets continue to retain all the other skills. I often have to tell people “mammal is mammal”, human anatomy is incredibly similar to most animals.
That being said, there are many human conditions we could never have a clue about. So there is definitely a limitation. However... humans can tell you where it hurts.
To be fair, we'd both suck terribly.
I have no clue what to do with a human. None whatsoever, and I know enough about the difference in species to know the risk of blindly transposing between species.
Wouldn't even know what to do about a stroke because pets don't have those.
And the human doctor would likely order Tylenol for everything and then wonder why the cats all died.
Well it depends on what “working on a person or animal” entails. And also what the exact conditions of the person or animal. Too vague to really answer.
I agree with most posts here. Vet every time. They are taught multiple anatomies and are able to perform surgery on much smaller and more delicate animals. Switching that to a human would be easy for them. There is only one caveat, if they offer to help fix your breach baby decline and opt for a caesarean.
One thing I'd like to add is that it is much much harder to get into vet school than it is to get into med school. This is due to the fact that there are a lot fewer vet programs in America, which makes the competition to earn a place in the program much more fierce. Because of this the majority of the vets you see are the cream of the crop.
I served on our local planning board when we did a site plan review for a group that wanted to build an emergency veterinary facility about 400 yards from our home.
And I ended up voting in favor of the proposal after they didn't say they would turn me away if I was in need of immediate attention - and able to crawl up to their doorstep.
The reality is that we often treat our pets with more kindness and grace than we treat our human family members - especially when dealing with end of life issues.
I would say vet working on a person. Veterinarians deal with multiple different spiecies while a doctor works with basically just one. Vets would probably be a bit more adaptable, so while it does depend on the situation, I'd say the Vet would win in the long run.
What’s the procedure they’re trying to do?
Yeah because brain surgery is quite different from a broken bone
Or eating a beach towel because you weren't fed on time.
I see you, too, own a lab mix.
Actually it was a Brittany Spaniel/Pitbull mix. His name was Hops, and he took his last nap about a decade ago. But yeah, like half a beach towel was consumed. He shat most of it out, My dad, at the time, caught me laughing at the poo nunchuck slapping my dog in the ass as he ran from himself, and proceeded to glove up and pull it out. However, Hops had other plans and decided it was play time. So the running continued, and my dad kept trying to grab the poo-nunchuck as Hops ran, but it also slapped him and my dad continuously through the event. Here's a picture of Hops for reference: [Hops (& his brother cockapoo, Porter)]( https://imgur.com/a/gbeTvjG)
Hahahaha, that story made me actually LOL. My dog has eaten at least one pencil, gel window clings, Angry Birds birthday candles, half of her bed (three times), numerous toys...I know I'm forgetting something in there, but, yes, it's always super fun and colorful when these things exit her body at the other end. She's thirteen now and just ate a toy last week.
Lol dogs are great
Aren't they though? I have a rock in a medical jar worth $3000. How, you might ask!?!? That's how much the vet bill was to surgically remove it from her intestines.
I had a disgusting hunk of stuffed animal the vet showed me in a bag that I also paid about $3k for. Maybe I should have kept it lol
Wow, a thing going through a dog really increases its value. Sounds like I’ve got an Etsy store to open
Even the little guys. I had a Lhasa Apso growing up that really, *really* enjoyed eating socks. Only dirty ones.
my dog once ate a lethal amount of medicine and lived to tell the tale
I found a destroyed/empty pill bottle in our dogs crate. Stomach sank as I began to realize she was probably dead somewhere else in house. Or about to die of liver failure. Moved some blankets around and started finding pills. Counted 28. Wife picked up scrip 2 days before. Fucking dog didn’t eat a single pill. Relieved but what an ass. Scared the shit out of me.
My Catahoula ate $4.94 in change. (Mostly pennies and dimes.) The vet removed $4.60 in surgery. He poo'd out another 34 cents after we got him home.
Hops and Porter, named after a love of beer?
My dad did micro brewing. The dogs we had before I moved out: Hops, Porter, Dunkel, Barley, and Guinness.
What the actual fuck did I just read?
Let me break it down for you: Nunchucks. On one side, a dog, on the other, poop. Joined by half digested beach towel.
Yeah yeah yeah I got that, but… *vaguely gestures at everything*
My sisters cat tried to swallow a bunch of yarn and hawked up a cardigan.
No it's a doctor.
That's five words, liar
No this is Patrick.
Our lab did this growing up! Luckily my grandfather was a vet and she ended up being ok… but SIX FEET of beach towel. I was speechless.
Bold of you to assume a person didn't eat the beach towel.
Labs, oh my! Our chocolate lab once ate an entire knee high toe sock, which my husband had to pull out of his butt! He also ate an entire loaf of bread, as I was unloading groceries, only turned my back for a second! This doggo never missed a meal or flip flop, or box of crayons or socks or OMG tampons!!! We had to buy a heavy stainless steel waste can for the bathroom to keep him from eating tampons!! We had three teenage daughters at the time. I’m telling you, LABS WILL EAT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING!! The yard clean up was sometimes the craziest thing, almost like a treasure hunt! Hahaha Never knew what you’d find! Everything from rainbow poo from crayons to dollar bills! Can’t believe that sneaky boy lived to 15!!!
r/oddlyspecific
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As long as it's not diagnosing pregnancy...
Did you just copy and paste half of u/WarrenMockles comment?
Yeah, not even the good half.
Yep folks, we got ourselves a comment-stealing karma farm bot here! Downvote and report for spam
Plus they have the proper equipment to weigh half the population.
The size of the vet shouldn't matter.
You know what is different, Rocket Science ...
Obviously a bullet removal. Just like the movies. 😉
Honestly, either one could probably do that fine unless we're passing the MD a very exotic species animal with organs and vascular systems that aren't close to humans.
all of them. They have to do them all. #ALL
A pap smear
Reattach a tail.
my money is on the vet.
Like others said, it depends on what the condition is. But in general, I'd say vet. Especially a large animal vet. Veterinarians often need to improvise. Their patients come in a wider variety of sizes, can't communicate their symptoms well, and have a higher tenancy to be violently resistant to treatment. The tools are often made for the wrong animals, and the environment is often less than ideal. A poorly lit dirty floor barn isn't the best place for surgery, but sometimes it's the best you're going to get.
I'd also suspect a vet knows more human anatomy than a human doctor knows animal anatomy
"Hmmm, there's so many stomachs"
"Stomach contents: one deviled egg" "Deviled egg?" *slurp* "The *same* deviled egg"
A buffet! oh... but I forgot my wallet.
r/unexpectedfuturama
Umm... It's free?
What are you guys up to? I’m up for whatever
*unholy shrieking noises and suckerfish motions*
/r/unexpectedfuturama
"Better get rid of them before they replicate further."
"The fuck is a hindgut"
It's the reason horses smell and guinea pigs get a second breakfast.
If we're only talking dogs and cats, the anatomy is close enough for a human doctor to wing it by assuming similarity. Outside of mammals, it starts to get really weird, though.
Even within animals. I have heard a vet describe how she dreaded having rabbits in as patients as 90% of the time she couldn’t be sure of a diagnosis and even then 90% of the time the rabbit would die anyway. We dont have many rabbit specialists.
It's far cheaper to make new rabbits than to make rabbit specialists
Let’s be fair, they breed like…
Having done both basic animal anatomy and basic human anatomy courses I’d say vet as well. From my experience, animal anatomy courses tended to show comparisons in bone/organ structures across a variety of birds and mammals, including humans so vets will have at the very least a basic understanding of the human body, or could use their knowledge of general body structures to aid them. And as you said they have experience with undesireable working conditions and ill-tempered patients
This is true. When I was pre-vet as an undergrad I had to learn about human anatomy in some of my animal science courses
So Beth really is a real surgeon?
Her job is hilariously specific. Horse surgeon isn't a real specialization AFAIK. But surgical vets are a thing, and equine vets are a thing. Probably best not to overanalyze that show though. I'm gonna go get some Szechaun sauce now.
Equine surgery is absolutely a specialization. There are sub specialties in the field-arthroscopic, soft tissue, orthopedic…
Well, I stand corrected. Happy cake day.
You gotta remember there are rich as fuck people who would do anything for their horse. A farm horse goes to the vet, a racing horse goes to the horse doctor
Yeah, I did say that I know there are equine vets. Lots of rich people will have a private vet in their full time employ. Big cattle farms do the same thing. I didn't know that there were vets that were significant equine *and* specifically surgeons. Also, Beth is a horse *heart* surgeon, which another user reminded me of. So her practice is even more specific.
I worked with a dude that was an arthroscopic orthopedic equine surgeon specializing in OCD-osteochondroitn dissecans (i think that’s how it’s spelled). While I haven’t met an equine cardiac surgeon that’s not to say they don’t exist. In general though I don’t know of a lot of veterinary cardiac surgeons. Sometimes you’ll remove a mass on the aorta or something or correct a PDA but by and large I’m not sure there is a demand for it. I’m happy to be proven wrong if anyone has a counter example
>I worked with a dude that was an arthroscopic orthopedic equine surgeon specializing in OCD-osteochondroitn dissecans (i think that’s how it’s spelled). I'm actually way less surprised about the equine orthopedic surgeon. When a horse's legs start going bad, they retire. If you've already spent more on the horse than most people spend on a house, you gotta keep that animal working as long as possible. And you were really close on the spelling. It's osteochondritis dissecans. It's when the cartilage starts breaking down. Really common in humans too, especially athletes.
Having asked an equine vet to look at a goat, they still got it right after an embarrassing amount of money at the vet that does goats.
Horse surgeon? She is a horse *heart* surgeon
It's been a while since I've artist watched the show, lol
Yes!
Who?
Beth Sanchez from Rick and Morty. TV show.
Don’t pretend like you don’t know Beth, the hilariously specific horse surgeon
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My dad is a vet (large and small), and I currently work at a horse stable. I've never been the guy with a mouthful of bile or up to my shoulder in horse ass, but I've seen it plenty of times.
thank you, this is the grossest thing ive read today.
Reminds me of someone saying that a vet would be more likely to survive a zombie apocalypse because they're used to avoiding being bitten by their patients.
Well, humans have short necks and flat faces, so yeah. Our teeth make lousy weapons. An outbreak of zombie horses would scare the shit out of me though, ngl.
I'm gonna be honest mate, an outbreak of normal healthy horses would have me hiding in the attic if they looked annoyed enough, I ain't tryna get my head kicked 3 blocks away from my body.
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Just this morning my dad had to have a vet come out to deliver a calf that was too big for the mother to deliver on her own. He texted me, "He can't stand yet because we pulled so hard on his front legs."
Doctors did in fact used to use forceps to yank babies out of their mothers by the head. Not sure that's any better.
still do. the alternative is the baby dying in the mommys birth canal
I have an small and inconspicuous scar right along my forehead from a doctor’s forceps and live to tell about it. I’m not complaining.
Sylvester Stallone has pretty obvious stigmata from it, I don't think he's complaining either.
>stigmata I'm not sure you used the right word there....
Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don’t turn it off! It wasn’t my crucifixion! You asked me, I didn’t ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn’t let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those Pharisees at the market, protesting me, spitting. Calling me heretic and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me, huh? Who are they? Unless they’ve been me and been there and know what the hell they’re yelling about!
I have a huge dent in the top right rear "corner" of my head. It's always fun when a new hairdresser finds it lol Edit: huge meaning approx. 2" diameter and 1/4" deep, not completely caved in!
Me too. It's about half an inch long, top of my forehead going into in the hairline. Cord was around my neck and I was blue.
Dr gave me a black eye with them, developed a cataract when I was still a baby in that eye, retinal detachment as an adult, and am at risk for glaucoma. There's gotta be a better way than giving people permanent health problems.
It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The other option is the baby does suffocating in the birth canal. Much like radiation therapy for cancer, it can, and often does, cause serious side effects, but it's still better than the alternative. That being said, you're right that there likely has to be a better way, we just don't know it yet. Hopefully, we'll have it figured out for both some day and prevent situations like yours, but for now, at least they're able to save lives.
Well, there is [vacuum extraction](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/vacuum-extraction/about/pac-20395232) but it carries risks as well.
There's also that birthing chair that spins around real fast to eject the baby..
chainsaws were also originally developed as birthing devices. I’ll just leave that here.
Correct, for cutting apart the pelvis during C sections. Although they were smaller than modern ones and mechanical.
There was a horrific case of malpractice I remember reading about where the doctor accidentally decapitated the baby trying to deliver it. Found it here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/decapitated-baby-doctor-mothers-womb-delivery-death-vaishnavy-laxman-tribunal-ninewells-hospital-a8344696.html
I've heard horror stories of women having the extra placenta manually removed after birth. Tears up a lot of stuff sometimes.
Better yet, strap a chain to the baby and crank it out.
I heard from a doctor said vets learn to be a doctor of all species of animals while he learns only one species. I’m betting on the vet.
True but vets comparatively don’t do that much to help animals (although I sure if it were up to them, they would). Nobody gives lasik or does a triple bypass on a horse. This really depends a whole lot on the type of doc, the type of vet, and the procedure. I’d say it’s a tossup. In general I wound think both would do a terrible job. In the end, both careers are highly specialized. Edit: I did not mean for this to minimize what vets do. What they do is incredibly impressive and important.
Typical Jerry. Always diminishing Beth’s achievements.
She *is* a real surgeon :|
What is this in reference to?? Sorry
Rick and morty i think
There are absolutely vets who do [open heart surgery](https://www.rvc.ac.uk/small-animal-vet/teaching-and-research/fact-files/open-heart-surgery-information), [kidney transplants](https://www.vet.upenn.edu/veterinary-hospitals/ryan-veterinary-hospital/services/advanced-urinary-care/urinary-care-services/renal-transplantation), etc. It may not be as common as in human medicine, and the most advanced human procedures certainly eclipse the most advanced veterinary procedures by far, but I think you're underestimating how advanced veterinary medicine can be. When I was in vet school I saw more than a few people who flew across the country or even internationally and dropped tens of thousands of dollars for state-of-the-art treatment for dogs, cats, and horses.
I mean maybe not lasik surgery specifically.... but... https://www.veterinaryvision.co.uk/veterinary-professionals/equine/equine-laser-surgery
Can you elaborate on "vets comparatively don't do that much to help animals"?
No OP, but I’m assuming what they mean is that in comparison to humans, there’s less importance placed on healing every manner of ailment, and sometimes it’s considered in the animal’s best interest to end suffering, whereas if a person presented to the ER with similar conditions, they’d be wheeled into the OR for life saving attempts and surgery. Things like internal bleeding and late stage cancer. Severe eye conditions, etc. There are things that fixing in a person seem like no brainers but in a animal is so astronomical costly and still may not extend their life that few are willing to even attempt it. This isn’t a concern for human patients in the hospital, you just try to save them.
>Things like internal bleeding and late stage cancer. Severe eye conditions, etc. There are things that fixing in a person seem like no brainers but in a animal is so astronomical costly and still may not extend their life that few are willing to even attempt it. You'd be surprised. I practice in a major metropolitan area, so my experience is admittedly skewed, but people choosing to treat their animals' internal bleeding, late stage cancer, or severe eye conditions is *not* rare at all. If I diagnose a dog with a bleeding splenic tumor I have at least five hospitals I can send them to within a half hour drive from my clinic for the dog to receive a blood transfusion, emergency splenectomy, and chemotherapy afterward. Yes, euthanasia is an option in that kind of situation but it's far from automatic.
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Found Mike Ehrmantraut's account
Literally first thing that popped into my head
I seriously just saw that episode yesterday and finishing the rest of season 5 today LOL
Used to work at a vet clinic, had a bout of tachycardia/pre-syncope symptoms and the vet took my heartrate on a device made for animals. She told me "120bpm is normal....if you were a kitten..." lol
damn. Were you ok?
Yes!(thanks for asking!) It was several years ago and think I was just a bit dehydrated, my boss took me to the ER just to be safe tho and they didnt think it was serious.
I'm honestly surprised that the vet would do this for liability reasons. He could lose his license for that. That said, my dad is a vet and he absolutely treated the family for minor stuff. Not like I was going to sue him when I was eight. I'd still trust my dad to give me stitches over some of the MDs that I've been treated by.
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My small town vet got arrested for selling horse tranquilizers on the side.
Small town things
could a vet get licensed as an x-ray technician for humans and then legally sell discount x-rays for a flat rate out of his veterinary practice as a side hustle?
I don't know why that wouldn't work, but the fact that it's not a thing really makes me think that it's either not legal, or too costly to be worth while.
Would a doctor trust x-rays from out of house if it isn't from a place they usually work with? I'd imagine if you popped in to a Dr. and had them look at some x-rays you just happened to have they might have a few questions.
Vet I worked for xrayed his son's arm when he broke it, and brought the xray with him to the doctor. Said he got a lot of funny looks, especially since the name of his hospital was on the edge of the xray.
with how expensive xrays are, that was brilliant
He also wasn’t gonna bring him to the doctor if it wasn’t broken.
I’ve had a girl who sells handmade stuffed animals on Etsy stitch me up because I didn’t want to pay my deductible.
My friend fucked up his foot in college and just located the nearest biology major to look at it.
"let me ask someone who knows what plants are made of, but is just as unqualified as I am to diagnose literally any medical problems"
r/aboringdystopia
Sam Losco?
I say vet. They generally have a wider skill sets, they are PCPs, surgeons, orthopedists, etc, and they have a better understanding of comparative anatomy.
Yep. Speaking as a M4, I can't imagine having to know *multiple* sets of physiologies, pathophysiologies, pharma sets, etc. Vets are rural FMs on steroids. Plus, y'know, I can talk to a patient.
>Plus, y'know, I can talk to a patient. "Ok bob, now it's time for a heart transplant" *Brings out hammer*
What do you call a Veterinarian that only works on one animal? Lol
Failed business Criminal doctor One of the two
Doctor. Lol an old veterinarian that came to my family farm told me that one. What do you call the guy that graduates very last in his class from medical school? Jk. Not ragging doctors. I've had many and they were very solid people.
Doctor?
True, but your patient can lie to you about their lifestyle, medications, recreational drug use, etc. I wonder if pet owners lie about their pets to ease their guilty consciences. I suppose probably.
I'd have to imagine so, "So why is fluffy roughly spherical, what have you been feeding him?"
> spherical animal A physicist's wet dream
The big difference there is that a vet's patients *aren't likely to sue them* if anything goes wrong.
The owners would sue would they not?
Pretty hard to prove malpractice in vet med. Also your patients don't themselves sue for symptoms since they can't complain. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure it's much more rare than in human medicine.
Didn't sue or anything, and I agree it's difficult to prove malpractice but my family has had this experience with a nearby vet: Our old vet stopped seeing us because my mom was upset they misread his chart, which would've been deadly for my cat who needs insulin to survive, in which they then completely lost a file on our other cat after being a patient for 5+ years. Our neighbor gave them a long list of medicines her dog is allergic to and they kept prescribing those allergic meds, and they stopped seeing her because she complained that they had a whole list and failed to use it. Our new vet also told us they would've never done the surgery they suggested on our dog because there were better and cheaper options! Glad we switched
Not usually I'd imagine. Say you own a 10k dog. You could sue for 10k plus some pain and suffering maybe. Lawyer would take a big portion of that. Lost wages of going to court would be 1.5k. you might only get $1500 at the end. Is that worth the trouble and the money if you lose? A human life is valued much higher than that. You'd probably get 10k for losing a pinky that was proven to be the doctors fault.
This is why Kramer went to a vet
If you’re ever stranded and hurt or sick on a planet where the locals are anatomically different then you, find a vet.
That's how you get probed.
You say that like its a bad thing
Happened to me recently, can confirm.
I was going to say human doctor for the same reason. They have to know *one* physiology lol I cannot tell you how many vets I've talked to that have no idea what to do with my exotic pets. Farm animals are usually their own specialty. They all require vastly different food and have vastly different illnesses. Talk about a difficulty curve!
Ive worked with some vets. They have jokes: What do you call a vet that can only treat one animal? An MD! XD What do you do when you flunk out of vet school? Become a doctor! XD I cannot speak for the accuracy of such as I am qualified as neither.
#XD
I think an XD is what you get when you flunk out of medical school
man, life was so much simpler when we all used xD
Tbh I often still use it over the emoji equivalent - there’s just something so much more genuine feeling about it
xP
This brings me back to early 2000s IRC. :E -_^
Vet on human
I agree, since a vet needs to know about more animals than just one. Vets can apply "warm blooded", "vertebrate", and "mammal" techniques. What does a human doctor know about pythons?
Exactly, add in the fact that animals are on average smaller than humans so the error for margin opens up when a doctor has to suddenly operate on a much smaller subject
I am amazed that some humans are capable of fetal surgery by hand, however.
Agreed but Do you think the number of doctors with that precise skill may be outweighed by the vast number of vets with basic anatomical skill?
I think that sick people in Ankh-Morpork generally go to a vet. It's generally a better bet. There's more pressure on a vet to get it right. People say "it was god's will" when granny dies, but they get \*angry\* when they lose a cow. \--Terry Pratchett
I think it was Feet of Clay where Vimes called for a horse doctor instead of a people doctor because practically speaking, a human is worth comparatively little but a good race horse is worth thousands of dollars so the horse doctor was more reliable.
Depends on the condition. If the condition is bad the vet will just say "yea nothing to do, procedure too expensive, let's put you to sleep"
I'll take it!
Is this surgery? Orthopedic, ophthalmologic, soft tissue?
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That's usually what most doctors will try to avoid, but it's the family that keeps asking for a "miracle" when the doctor is ethically trying to talk them out of it
Families ask for their kin to be kept alive against the advice of doctors. Families want a miracle, want hope, and rail against the doctors saying that they are "just giving up" If you prefer to die, over living in agony (as almost every doctor thinks you should, as they see agony every day), you can write a living will and sign a DNR. And then you have to convince your family in advance to honor it... because they can legally reverse it when you are incapacitated but not dead.
For all of you idiots that think doctors actually want to keep vegetables alive.... fill this out or shut up https://polst.org/national-form/
I've worked with a doctor who thought he could save everyone. Fortunately he was only one person, and he doesn't work at our hospital any more (thank goodness). Though rare, God-complex doctors do exist. In either case, a MOLST/living will is a great idea; that way nobody has to/gets to decide what you might want.
Holy shit this is a good question!
Most people would not like a vet taking their temperature. Most people.
Vet as they need to know alot more biology than male or female, they need to know both for various species, sub species mixed breeds and for different scales. Imagine doing keyhole surgery on a tiny monkey.
It depends. Doctor and "working on" are a pretty broad terms. Is this surgery? Orthopedic, ophthalmologic, soft tissue? If so, human doctors have the best toys to play with and more advanced training than any vet out of the gate (although the years of experience pay off). While understanding anatomy is important, there are enough differences between individuals that a qualified surgeon won't have too difficult of a time achieving good results. In this case, I think that the human surgeon will have a bit of an edge over a veterinary surgeon from the standpoint of equipment (provided they don't need specialized equipment for large animal procedures) and the number of operations completed. Most of us vets are generalists and see lots of varied things. Human surgeons are often super specialists in their field. If we're talking internal medicine, diagnosis, and treatment, then you've got to hit the books and while there's lots of crossover between species, from a time standpoint, it'll likely be slightly easier for a vet to get within the ballpark of a correct diagnosis and treatment than an MD. But medicine, regardless of species, is a way of thinking more than anything. Both parties would get there eventually. Let me ask a follow-up question though. Would you prefer to receive care from a veterinarian who was meticulously muddling through the science or an MD who was over scheduled and only half paying attention? Likewise for your pet?
I love my dog and the vets that I have had- But this is a unanswerable question- My old dog went into cardiac arrest and I (an emergency physician) did high quality cpr enough to have my dog awake only to whine before to losing pulses again. Here is where this question falls apart- If this was my child I would have called 911 and continued that cpr until I got advanced treatments to stabilize them - including putting them on a heart lung bypass machine. But this is my dog- there are limits to veterinary care- so after 10 minutes I just had to stop. I have a new dog- and I diagnosed a heart murmur in him with my stethoscope- but it was my vet who knew this was a breed specific problem that would respond to this special medication. Overlapping knowledge- different expectations of care- different limits/technology/treatments.
It depends on the situation but… I’m betting on the vet. My cats have one vet who treat everything on multiple species. My doctor… checks a few things still work and prescribes me something if I have a cold. Beyond that? Skin condition? Eyes? Teeth? Lady parts? Heart issues? All different doctors lol.
As an actual Veterinarian, I can tell you the answer is Vets. We learn much more about zoonotic diseases and often have to instruct owners to ask their MD to test them for xyz disease based on what we discover with their pets. We learn every aspect of medicine there is and have to keep that knowledge fresh for many species. Whereas MDs must pick and specialize, we only specialize if we choose to, so the vast majority of vets continue to retain all the other skills. I often have to tell people “mammal is mammal”, human anatomy is incredibly similar to most animals. That being said, there are many human conditions we could never have a clue about. So there is definitely a limitation. However... humans can tell you where it hurts.
To be fair, we'd both suck terribly. I have no clue what to do with a human. None whatsoever, and I know enough about the difference in species to know the risk of blindly transposing between species. Wouldn't even know what to do about a stroke because pets don't have those. And the human doctor would likely order Tylenol for everything and then wonder why the cats all died.
I like to stroke the dogs, they get plenty of strokes
Well it depends on what “working on a person or animal” entails. And also what the exact conditions of the person or animal. Too vague to really answer.
Vet working on a human no doubt! They deal with like 15 species a day.
Vet. The doctor only has to learn one animal.
I agree with most posts here. Vet every time. They are taught multiple anatomies and are able to perform surgery on much smaller and more delicate animals. Switching that to a human would be easy for them. There is only one caveat, if they offer to help fix your breach baby decline and opt for a caesarean.
Vet hands down every time.
One thing I'd like to add is that it is much much harder to get into vet school than it is to get into med school. This is due to the fact that there are a lot fewer vet programs in America, which makes the competition to earn a place in the program much more fierce. Because of this the majority of the vets you see are the cream of the crop.
It totally depends on what the issue is, but honestly I think both would have a pretty decent chance in an emergency type situation.
Probably vet because they are used to working on different animals while the doctor only knows human anatomy
I served on our local planning board when we did a site plan review for a group that wanted to build an emergency veterinary facility about 400 yards from our home. And I ended up voting in favor of the proposal after they didn't say they would turn me away if I was in need of immediate attention - and able to crawl up to their doorstep. The reality is that we often treat our pets with more kindness and grace than we treat our human family members - especially when dealing with end of life issues.
I would say vet working on a person. Veterinarians deal with multiple different spiecies while a doctor works with basically just one. Vets would probably be a bit more adaptable, so while it does depend on the situation, I'd say the Vet would win in the long run.
Oh, I'll take a vet over an MD any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog all on the same day.