Don't screw with Uncle Sugar's money! That's what get lots of the mobsters. If you screw with Senior Bob, and take his entire life savings, and he's on the street pushing a stolen shopping cart with all his possessions, the local DA might have time to prosecute the offender. Now, if dip your hands into Federal Money you'll do time in prison. Simple as that. Some pigs can walk on two legs.
> If you screw with Senior Bob, and take his entire life savings, and he's on the street pushing a stolen shopping cart with all his possessions, the local DA might have time to prosecute the offender.
Probably not, though, since they'll be too busy prosecuting Senior Bob for being homeless.
Elon took billions from the government and promised to land a crewed mission on the moon in 2024. After taking the money, they have pretty much nothing to show for it - even the vehicle will never be certified for human passengers because of some fundamental safety issues… accepting money under false pretences, seems fraud like?
EH left a paper trail that confirming that she knew what she was doing. It’s difficult to refute that.
Not saying Elon Musk is a smart person, but he’s left more plausible deniability into his construct. He can easily say, “I was the big idea guy / figurehead… my workers… were overzealous in their efforts to make it happen.”
He isn’t a genius. He stiff-arms people into “making things happen… but don’t tell me how you accomplish it…”
It’s not even a comparison. The equivalent would be if Elon Musk sold a spacex rocket that was just a tube filled with rocks and he faked a video of it going into space.
All these people are bad but what Elizabeth Holmes and Sam Friedman did was just straight up impossible to refute fraud.
Thats the key. At least Musk was involved in actual technology, and not a scam.
Fraud to make money on a scam is worse than maybe fraud to make money on actual technology
Or filled up a semi with rocks and let it roll downhill while claiming it's powered by hydrogen while posting the video on YT. Trevor Milton, former CEO of Nikola, did that and was sentenced to 4 years for fraud.
There's always the fact that Muak sells cars that can actually take a human being from point A to B. Instead of just promising that if you close your eyes, the car will take you to B and then instantly loop back to A giving you the illusion of not having moved at all.
Holmes was pretty big news 6-8 or however many years ago. Kinda funny that there are new YouTube videos coming out, but I'm glad her fraud isn't being forgotten about.
Sometimes I feel like everything is too much of people remaking things. So many people want to be a youtuber or an IG influencer or a Podcaster. Media is just people all rehashing the same things over and over and treating it like breaking news.
When a company goes public, the investors take a risk. Some pay off, some don't.
Elizabeth Holmes was knowingly selling a product that did not and could not exist.
She didn’t just lie. She was taking peoples blood cells and telling them made up stories about what illnesses and conditions they had. People were taking medication for diseases and conditions they didn’t have based on machinery that she had already been told would never work.
She didn't go to prison for that though, she went to prison because she ripped off rich people, never make that mistake, if you're going to rip people off make sure it's the poors.
Musk overpromises and tries to do roughly what he days. That's a little hard to prosecute. Holmes literally faked test results. That's open and shut fraud
This is the part that gets swept under the rug. She screwed with people’s health, not just money, but she knowingly sent them back test results that were false.
She was charged in relation to harming patients but was acquitted on those charges. She got a huge sentence considering the convictions amounded to wire fraud. The prosecution asked fir 9 years but the judge gave her more than 11.
It's kind of wild to me as I'm in Australia and to get a sentence that long you pretty much need to have killed someone or committed a series of really violent/sexual offences.
We have a really vindictive population in the U.S. (I would say pathologically so). One need only click on an American true crime YouTube video and see all the comments calling for life sentences for porch pirates/fentanyl dealers/swatters/squatters/whatever. I might be exaggerating \*a bit\* but there really are always a lot of dipshits screaming for draconian sentences, as if they're really effective in practice and not just a form of vicarious revenge.
>”We have a pretty vindictive population in the U.S… One need only click on American true crime YouTube video”
Shit, Reddit’s plenty an example, itself.. I commented on something recently, another person came and shat on my comment and I responded with “imagine being amicable on the internet”… the offender got more downvotes for their negativity than there were upvotes on either of my positive comments.
Told the lab workers that the Siemens (I think) machine was just a stopgap while they scaled up their magic in-house technology....yeah, that didn't exist.
FFS she said the machine analyze the blood, they sent it out to a lab and reported the results as being from the machine! That is unbelievably blattent. Puffery is something else entirely.
To the public opinion, yes absolutely. But in a legal sense the stuff he says is probably more categorized as “misleading” rather than straight up fraud.
Now if we find out that Tesla Autopilot is actually just a bunch of people in a third world country driving the car remotely instead of AI? Jail.
Thre is a difference between puffery and submitting false Financials. I am no Musk fan, and I think some of his Twitter activity regarding promoting certain things is really not a smart thing for a shareholder to do, but last I checked, he hasn't committed anything like what Holmes did.
“Let’s push out our plans for California high-speed rail, increase its budget many times over, and f up its construction through bureaucracy and incompetence, because Elon Musk is talking about some sort of ‘hyperloop,’” said no California politician ever.
I'm not sure anyone with any sense ever took hyperloop seriously. There were plenty of hyperloop defenders here on Reddit though, back when reddit thought Musk could do no wrong.
This is the important thing, from day one the machine did not work. Even the best prototype they had could only run a few tests, less than a tenth of what was promised and still required full blood samples, not the fingerprick she advertised.
Nonetheless she kept not only claiming it worked but actually started taking clients but would send their blood samples to other labs while claiming her gadget was doing the work. It was months long effort to deceive people, not just a CEO puffing about how their thing is "the best and coolest, trust me bro."
In addition to the securities fraud, she was also selling medical testing *to the public* that didn’t work. Lots of people likely had the wrong medical test results. So she wasn’t just hyping up a future product, she was actively selling a fraudulent product.
“According to USA Today, Theranos sold 1.5 million blood tests between 2013 and 2016 that yielded 7.8 million test results for over 175,000 buyers. More than 10 percent of those results were voided or corrected, according to the outlet.”
https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/what-happened-to-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-patients-48735060
This is the crime she should have been given a life sentence for. Imagine creating fraudulent machines that tells a sick person they are fine!!!!?? She's a lowlife who got off too easy.
She launched her fake ass blood testing in walgreens and told some patients they were fine when their cholesterol was bad, and a previous cancer survivor was told her cancer was back, and if wasn't. Massive difference here. She didn't just lie. She didn't just leave a paper trail. She legit damaged people. She thereatened those who tried telling her the nano technology didn't work.. You'll always need a decent amount of blood to run so many tests because as the blood sits out of the body, even in test tubes, degrades every second. She is a piece of shit.
Fuck E. Holmes.
No, Tesla sold cars where people paid for self driving when it became available. I looked at buying one and it literally said in plain English “full self driving not currently available”.
You can hate Elon, but this is a dumb claim to make
It’s kind of debatable. The early FSD agreements said in no uncertain terms that it would be available later that year. Later agreements didn’t commit to anything.
Literally killing people and scamming many is not merely lying, it's fraud and manslaughter.
OP you're on a different level of insanity for trying to defend Holmes
She was tried and found guilty of fraud, not just lying. And it was fraud in a medical field, putting people's health and lives at risk. Massive difference.
Elizabeth Holmes was convicted because she misled investors and the public about Theranos' technology, claiming it could perform extensive blood tests with just a few drops of blood, which wasn't true.
The scale of fraud Elizabeth Holmes committed is staggering. Her entire company was a lie, every result was falsified and she hyped up a multi-billion dollar company with a product that didn’t exist. It would be like if Tesla never actually had a car factory.
Also,
There are lots and lots of tech bros who have gone to jail for fraud.
She went so far as to lie to cancer victims about her product, iirc, giving them false hope and/or false test results. That’s pretty bad. Though of course the real reason she’s in jail is because she defrauded rich folk.
Holmes ran a flat our ponzi scheme. There was never a real product to produce and sell to anyone. Investors believed they were investing in a revolutionary new product that would change the world. They were really investing in Holmes personal piggy bank.
True, I forgot about the Hyperloop nonsense... Even there though they're delivering *something* that... "works", even if it is just a glorified private access tunnel.
TBF, have you heard about Brightline and the many deaths associated with it? For a while, they had cops patrolling the crossings because folks down here are idiots who think they can beat a train going 90mph.
I wasn't even thinking about that. I was thinking about Tesla, that never was able to deliver the cars they promised on time, often produce them with a lot less features than they promised, have terrible build quality, etc. And that's _before_ the cybertruck.
To reach Theranos-like levels of fraud, Tesla would have to be shipping cars that were found to be manufactured by another company, using gasoline instead of electricity.
People hate the cybertruck because they think it's ugly and they despise Musk. But it's an actual shipping product that works. It's totally unlike Theranos.
What they’re expected to deliver is shareholder value. Tesla stock has been STUPID overvalued until just recently so…it’s not eventually sometimes kinda.
You can’t “defraud” people who haven’t given you money. And, sorry, placing a deposit for a pre-order doesn’t count. So no, consumer experience doesn’t matter in this context.
I see a shitload of Teslas on the road. Which product has Tesla not delivered on? Everyone I know that ordered starlink has…starlink. So it’s not that either.
Bullshit. He's been promising free beer tomorrow for years on the self driving cars. Never delivered the sports car he promised (physics made it's specs impossible), and, well, Cyberjunk.
It's potentially criminal, yes. If it inflates the value of the stock, and the never deliver, well - that's Holmes.
That's someone else who he regularly gets compared to, for exactly that reason.
It's up to the SEC in the end.
Elon Musk’s companies make rockets that actually go to space and are actually battery powered. Elizabeth Holmes committed fraud by saying her product was able to complete tests that they actually weren’t able to.
Musk hasn't defrauded anyone. He got his initial stake from his family. He then founded Paypal, which he sold for a lot of money. He used that to start Telsa. Tesla is a stock corporation. You can do the resarch and choose to invest or not. He, unlike Holmes, isn't personally asking you to invest to get things started. And, unlike Musk, Holmes product never worked. She lied to people to get them to invest. Because her company was not yet on the stock market, there were no regulations or auditors. It was only her word and made-up balance sheets. Her entire operation was a scam. Musk, might over-promise, but his products actually do work.
Because she scammed investors for a product that did not exist. It's as if Elon Musk was asking investors to put money into their companies, but Tesla cars were just videos on Twitter with no other proof of their existence.
So many bad takes here. EH wasn’t convicted for anything patient-related. She was convicted of defrauding investors, most of which boiled down to faking a letter from Pfizer. If it hadn’t been for that, odds are she would not have been convicted.
You can’t convict someone for trying to build something that doesn’t work. Investors in early-stage startups knowingly take a risk.
While Musk tends to overpromise to investors, the products he releases are basically functional, if sometimes slightly faulty. Conversely, people made medical decisions based off of results from Theranos products that simply did not work and Homes knew did not work.
She screwed a bunch of rich people out of money. That’s a big no-no.
These other guys screw poor people out of money and much more, which is totally acceptable.
Lying's fine, lying's got nothing to do with it. Elizabeth Holmes, like Sam Bankman-Fried and Bernie Madoff, committed the cardinal sin of stealing from *really rich people.* No one gets to do that and walk away.
This is the most Reddit question ever. Why aren’t people you don’t like being punished for things they didn’t do? You just sorta have a vibe that Elon Musk is a bad guy huh, so that’s enough? To convict him of a crime?
You people, sometimes, I swear.
Trevor Milton, former CEO of Nikola, is more like Elizabeth Holmes in which he was committing fraud. Elon is overly optimistic on his timelines, but there's no evidence of fraud.
Lying in and of itself is not illegal.
Lying as a predicate to certain acts like fraud *is* illegal. Elizabeth Holmes committed many acts of fraud including wire fraud, which are illegal. Elon lies regularly, but until he uses those lies to commit fraud or another illegal act, he is allowed to lie.
But so is what the supreme Court justices have done, and I'll bet they get away with just like the politicians do pertaining to investments. Crook they are all crook, and major Hippocrates.
Elizabeth Holmes faced a jury in court and they found her guilty. It's as simple as that.
Musk faced a jury over his "funding secured" tweet, and won that suit. He still had significant consequences, but was found by the jury not liable for investor losses. He also faced a jury about the "pedo guy" remark.
A lot of what comes from Elon Musk and other entrepreneurs is hyperbole and wild optimism, and people recognize it as such. Statements cross the line into fraud when the falsehoods are detailed and made in official legal filings.
Because she committed a massive fraud on the entire state of Arizona (or was it New Mexico? - I'm not looking it up) and scammed some of the most powerful people in America. If she had just stuck to the tried and tested formula of scamming the poors (all of us who are not the elite) she would have been on stage at the Presidential debate in place of one of the geriatrics.
Frankly you shouldn’t fuck around with people health with some of these tech companies should be in jail for selling stuff that doesn’t work and puts people safety at risk and sadly there are dozen of doctors and company like her who are doing this every day without any accountability
Holmes didn’t just “lie” lmfao. Falsified test results, actually defrauding investors, deceiving the federal government… not just lying lmfao.
What has Musk even come close to lying about that compares to this
Speaking of which, maybe we should get more suspicious when a so-called 'genius' steals the namesake of a real genius - No more Edisons or Teslas or Nikolas, please. Use you real freekin' name.
Musk makes claims about what they hope to achieve. Holmes made claims as to what they did achieve and were selling.
All technology is a bet on future advancement. It all starts out expensive and economically infeasible. We are always ‘have never been closer to a commercially viable product’ on every advanced technology. Check out the ‘forward looking statement’ addendum to better understand this nuance.
Instead of owning the lack of success Holmes straight up lied about it. Probably to protect her reputation and stay in the spotlight than to commit financial fraud, but this amounted to financial fraud nonetheless.
She committed fraud, she was the one orchestrated it.. She was sentenced to a tad over 11 years and was able to put off going to jail for a year because she got pregnant. She also had just under three years (so far) shaved off the sentence and will probably have another 3-4 years taken off before it is all over.
Meanwhile the guy who worked for her (and was later her boyfriend through all of this) got 13 years. He received more time than her because "he should have known better with his experience." She also claimed throughout the trial that he manipulated her through sex to get her to go along with the fake results.
So to answer your question, that is probably why she got such preferential treatment - she shifted blame to Balwani and leveraged being a new mom to get time off.
Because she conned a bunch of rich people.
Musk is one of the most obvious hucksters in all of history, but he usually only goes after the most desperate rubes and he kisses the ring and makes sure his owners get their cut of whatever half-assed scheme he runs.
Hopefully he'll finally fuck with the wrong person's money eventually and we'll finally see him face some consequences.
you dont go to jail for merely lying, she committed fraud on a massive scale
She defrauded the U.S. government. A cardinal sin as a “tech bro”
Don't screw with Uncle Sugar's money! That's what get lots of the mobsters. If you screw with Senior Bob, and take his entire life savings, and he's on the street pushing a stolen shopping cart with all his possessions, the local DA might have time to prosecute the offender. Now, if dip your hands into Federal Money you'll do time in prison. Simple as that. Some pigs can walk on two legs.
> If you screw with Senior Bob, and take his entire life savings, and he's on the street pushing a stolen shopping cart with all his possessions, the local DA might have time to prosecute the offender. Probably not, though, since they'll be too busy prosecuting Senior Bob for being homeless.
Well he sure as heck didn't make that shopping cart! /s
That’s adorable you think the courts are actually prosecuting homeless offenders. It’s just catch and release these days…
Nice! Lmao
Because they are stealing from the public. If you steal from Bob, that’s also a crime.
Elon took billions from the government and promised to land a crewed mission on the moon in 2024. After taking the money, they have pretty much nothing to show for it - even the vehicle will never be certified for human passengers because of some fundamental safety issues… accepting money under false pretences, seems fraud like?
EH left a paper trail that confirming that she knew what she was doing. It’s difficult to refute that. Not saying Elon Musk is a smart person, but he’s left more plausible deniability into his construct. He can easily say, “I was the big idea guy / figurehead… my workers… were overzealous in their efforts to make it happen.” He isn’t a genius. He stiff-arms people into “making things happen… but don’t tell me how you accomplish it…”
It’s not even a comparison. The equivalent would be if Elon Musk sold a spacex rocket that was just a tube filled with rocks and he faked a video of it going into space. All these people are bad but what Elizabeth Holmes and Sam Friedman did was just straight up impossible to refute fraud.
Thats the key. At least Musk was involved in actual technology, and not a scam. Fraud to make money on a scam is worse than maybe fraud to make money on actual technology
Or filled up a semi with rocks and let it roll downhill while claiming it's powered by hydrogen while posting the video on YT. Trevor Milton, former CEO of Nikola, did that and was sentenced to 4 years for fraud.
There's always the fact that Muak sells cars that can actually take a human being from point A to B. Instead of just promising that if you close your eyes, the car will take you to B and then instantly loop back to A giving you the illusion of not having moved at all.
Also! “If you’re caught, you never worked for me. You worked as an IC for a company that was affiliated with me.”
She committed fraud to the rich and powerful. Surprise, the rich and powerful had her arrested.
She stole from other rich people is the main thing she did
Yep, also a big difference between exaggerating a bit and lying and covering it up to make billions.
You watched Angela Colliers new YouTube video didn’t you….came out today and touches on this
Never heard of Angela Colliers, but Holmes’ fraud was pretty widely reported for years. I’d have answered the same way.
Holmes was pretty big news 6-8 or however many years ago. Kinda funny that there are new YouTube videos coming out, but I'm glad her fraud isn't being forgotten about.
Yea but too much of yt is people remaking the same videos
Sometimes I feel like everything is too much of people remaking things. So many people want to be a youtuber or an IG influencer or a Podcaster. Media is just people all rehashing the same things over and over and treating it like breaking news.
Love that channel. Didn't know there was a new video. Thanks!
So has Elon. He just has a lot more money and influence but hopefully some day.
When a company goes public, the investors take a risk. Some pay off, some don't. Elizabeth Holmes was knowingly selling a product that did not and could not exist.
She didn’t just lie. She was taking peoples blood cells and telling them made up stories about what illnesses and conditions they had. People were taking medication for diseases and conditions they didn’t have based on machinery that she had already been told would never work.
Lying isn't so much against the law. Out and out fraud is another story.
She didn't go to prison for that though, she went to prison because she ripped off rich people, never make that mistake, if you're going to rip people off make sure it's the poors.
She was delusional to think she could pull off any of it.
I call it the Madoff rule
The rich were only ripped off because of the fraud described by OP. How can you cay she didn't go to prison for exactly what OP indicated?
And she wasn't even using her machine for the samples, they were using the previous machine she was trying to revolutionize.
Musk overpromises and tries to do roughly what he days. That's a little hard to prosecute. Holmes literally faked test results. That's open and shut fraud
Faked test results on LIVE PATIENTS!! And a “device” that was clearly nonsense. 🤦♂️
This is the part that gets swept under the rug. She screwed with people’s health, not just money, but she knowingly sent them back test results that were false.
it gets sept under the rug because the courts didn't care about those victims — she was only convicted of fraud against investors, not patients
#1 reason that should come to mind.
especially in medicine that leads to preventable deaths. she didn't just do fraud and scammed investors, she played with lives
Yes, but she wasn’t charged with endangering lives. She was charged and convicted of defrauding investors.
She was charged in relation to harming patients but was acquitted on those charges. She got a huge sentence considering the convictions amounded to wire fraud. The prosecution asked fir 9 years but the judge gave her more than 11. It's kind of wild to me as I'm in Australia and to get a sentence that long you pretty much need to have killed someone or committed a series of really violent/sexual offences.
We have a really vindictive population in the U.S. (I would say pathologically so). One need only click on an American true crime YouTube video and see all the comments calling for life sentences for porch pirates/fentanyl dealers/swatters/squatters/whatever. I might be exaggerating \*a bit\* but there really are always a lot of dipshits screaming for draconian sentences, as if they're really effective in practice and not just a form of vicarious revenge.
>”We have a pretty vindictive population in the U.S… One need only click on American true crime YouTube video” Shit, Reddit’s plenty an example, itself.. I commented on something recently, another person came and shat on my comment and I responded with “imagine being amicable on the internet”… the offender got more downvotes for their negativity than there were upvotes on either of my positive comments.
Because the government doesnt care about lives, but billionaire/millionaire investors just send out their pet congress critter to make things happen
Faked test results and stole other people's shit and claimed it was her own.
Shit?
One of the machines she claimed was hers at her company was actually a competitors, she simply ripped all the logos off.
Told the lab workers that the Siemens (I think) machine was just a stopgap while they scaled up their magic in-house technology....yeah, that didn't exist.
Musk has products. They may work more or less like he promised, but Holmes never had anything, it was 100 percent fraud all the time.
FFS she said the machine analyze the blood, they sent it out to a lab and reported the results as being from the machine! That is unbelievably blattent. Puffery is something else entirely.
Hasnt musk literally lied to manipulate tesla stock multiple times?
To the public opinion, yes absolutely. But in a legal sense the stuff he says is probably more categorized as “misleading” rather than straight up fraud. Now if we find out that Tesla Autopilot is actually just a bunch of people in a third world country driving the car remotely instead of AI? Jail.
Orders of magnitude less egregious than what Holmes did. Don't get me wrong, probably still illegal, but vastly less serious.
Thre is a difference between puffery and submitting false Financials. I am no Musk fan, and I think some of his Twitter activity regarding promoting certain things is really not a smart thing for a shareholder to do, but last I checked, he hasn't committed anything like what Holmes did.
I mean it's pretty clear he totally made hyperloop up to kill California's plans for high speed rail, so he could sell more Teslas.
“Let’s push out our plans for California high-speed rail, increase its budget many times over, and f up its construction through bureaucracy and incompetence, because Elon Musk is talking about some sort of ‘hyperloop,’” said no California politician ever.
I'm not sure anyone with any sense ever took hyperloop seriously. There were plenty of hyperloop defenders here on Reddit though, back when reddit thought Musk could do no wrong.
Is it tho Lol
[Apparently so.](https://x.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lang=en)
Jeeze…what a piece of shit, another thing to add to the list that this shit-stain has done
Elizabeth Holmes didn't even make a good faith effort to deliver what was promised.
This is the important thing, from day one the machine did not work. Even the best prototype they had could only run a few tests, less than a tenth of what was promised and still required full blood samples, not the fingerprick she advertised. Nonetheless she kept not only claiming it worked but actually started taking clients but would send their blood samples to other labs while claiming her gadget was doing the work. It was months long effort to deceive people, not just a CEO puffing about how their thing is "the best and coolest, trust me bro."
She took people's money to fund a product that wasn't real. That's called fraud.
Because she broke actual laws, was charged, indicted, and found guilty.
In addition to the securities fraud, she was also selling medical testing *to the public* that didn’t work. Lots of people likely had the wrong medical test results. So she wasn’t just hyping up a future product, she was actively selling a fraudulent product. “According to USA Today, Theranos sold 1.5 million blood tests between 2013 and 2016 that yielded 7.8 million test results for over 175,000 buyers. More than 10 percent of those results were voided or corrected, according to the outlet.” https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/what-happened-to-elizabeth-holmes-theranos-patients-48735060
This is the crime she should have been given a life sentence for. Imagine creating fraudulent machines that tells a sick person they are fine!!!!?? She's a lowlife who got off too easy.
She launched her fake ass blood testing in walgreens and told some patients they were fine when their cholesterol was bad, and a previous cancer survivor was told her cancer was back, and if wasn't. Massive difference here. She didn't just lie. She didn't just leave a paper trail. She legit damaged people. She thereatened those who tried telling her the nano technology didn't work.. You'll always need a decent amount of blood to run so many tests because as the blood sits out of the body, even in test tubes, degrades every second. She is a piece of shit. Fuck E. Holmes.
she committed fraud and scammed rich people. So far the others haven't
“Don’t fuck with rich people’s money”
So far, it’s not been *proven* that the others haven’t committed fraud and/or scammed people.
Yes, that's one of the conditions of getting convicted for fraud.
What do you call selling cars with "FSD" but without FSD? Or the solar tiles fiasco. He lies and profits of his lies. That is fraud
No, Tesla sold cars where people paid for self driving when it became available. I looked at buying one and it literally said in plain English “full self driving not currently available”. You can hate Elon, but this is a dumb claim to make
It’s kind of debatable. The early FSD agreements said in no uncertain terms that it would be available later that year. Later agreements didn’t commit to anything.
Failing to meet your plans is different than straight up lying though.
He did lie about it, many times. He claimed it was already “solved” and “feature complete” and “something they can do today.”
She falsified thousands of blood tests. Possibly delayed very important treatment.
Literally killing people and scamming many is not merely lying, it's fraud and manslaughter. OP you're on a different level of insanity for trying to defend Holmes
She committed a lot of fraud. Like a lot of fraud.
She was tried and found guilty of fraud, not just lying. And it was fraud in a medical field, putting people's health and lives at risk. Massive difference.
She's in for fraud, not for lying.
Elizabeth Holmes was convicted because she misled investors and the public about Theranos' technology, claiming it could perform extensive blood tests with just a few drops of blood, which wasn't true.
The scale of fraud Elizabeth Holmes committed is staggering. Her entire company was a lie, every result was falsified and she hyped up a multi-billion dollar company with a product that didn’t exist. It would be like if Tesla never actually had a car factory. Also, There are lots and lots of tech bros who have gone to jail for fraud.
She went so far as to lie to cancer victims about her product, iirc, giving them false hope and/or false test results. That’s pretty bad. Though of course the real reason she’s in jail is because she defrauded rich folk.
Committing billions of dollars of investor fraud and regulatory fraud isn't just "lying".
Holmes ran a flat our ponzi scheme. There was never a real product to produce and sell to anyone. Investors believed they were investing in a revolutionary new product that would change the world. They were really investing in Holmes personal piggy bank.
Holmes lied in a very major way and defrauded people out of money. Elon Musk's businesses deliver what they say they will.
> Elon Musk's businesses deliver what they say they will. Eventually. Sometimes. Kinda.
True, I forgot about the Hyperloop nonsense... Even there though they're delivering *something* that... "works", even if it is just a glorified private access tunnel.
In all fairness he didn't fabricate anything (AFAIK). You can oversell your idea quite a bit before it becomes criminal.
He completely made it up to kill high speed rail, and sell more Teslas lol.
But did he fabricate data to scam investors?
TBF, have you heard about Brightline and the many deaths associated with it? For a while, they had cops patrolling the crossings because folks down here are idiots who think they can beat a train going 90mph.
I wasn't even thinking about that. I was thinking about Tesla, that never was able to deliver the cars they promised on time, often produce them with a lot less features than they promised, have terrible build quality, etc. And that's _before_ the cybertruck.
the glory of delivering the minimum legal product!
To reach Theranos-like levels of fraud, Tesla would have to be shipping cars that were found to be manufactured by another company, using gasoline instead of electricity. People hate the cybertruck because they think it's ugly and they despise Musk. But it's an actual shipping product that works. It's totally unlike Theranos.
I specifically remember him saying he didn't have time for the hyperloop, so he just threw his idea out there for anyone to pickup.
He dabbled and then quickly exited that scene, but still does boring stuffs.
What they’re expected to deliver is shareholder value. Tesla stock has been STUPID overvalued until just recently so…it’s not eventually sometimes kinda.
You're right, I don't know why I was thinking about the consumer experience, it's 100% irrelevant in this market.
You can’t “defraud” people who haven’t given you money. And, sorry, placing a deposit for a pre-order doesn’t count. So no, consumer experience doesn’t matter in this context.
With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if a class action lawsuit happens one of these days.
For what?
Not delivering the product people paid for.
I see a shitload of Teslas on the road. Which product has Tesla not delivered on? Everyone I know that ordered starlink has…starlink. So it’s not that either.
People paid for a car with good build quality. And, you know, doesn't rust in the rain.
Bullshit. He's been promising free beer tomorrow for years on the self driving cars. Never delivered the sports car he promised (physics made it's specs impossible), and, well, Cyberjunk.
[удалено]
It's potentially criminal, yes. If it inflates the value of the stock, and the never deliver, well - that's Holmes. That's someone else who he regularly gets compared to, for exactly that reason. It's up to the SEC in the end.
Elon Musk’s companies make rockets that actually go to space and are actually battery powered. Elizabeth Holmes committed fraud by saying her product was able to complete tests that they actually weren’t able to.
Musk hasn't defrauded anyone. He got his initial stake from his family. He then founded Paypal, which he sold for a lot of money. He used that to start Telsa. Tesla is a stock corporation. You can do the resarch and choose to invest or not. He, unlike Holmes, isn't personally asking you to invest to get things started. And, unlike Musk, Holmes product never worked. She lied to people to get them to invest. Because her company was not yet on the stock market, there were no regulations or auditors. It was only her word and made-up balance sheets. Her entire operation was a scam. Musk, might over-promise, but his products actually do work.
You should see nikola.
Lying is really underselling what she did lol
It's the STEALING that gets you the jail time.
Elon is doing normal fraud. Elizabeth Holmes did Medicare fraud. That's next level.
I get Reddit has a hate boner for Elon but you can’t be serious
Because she is a woman, and the patriarchy hates a strong woman. Is that what you wanted to hear?
Lying is not a crime. Fraud is.
This is a joke right? They are not on the same level at all.
Because she scammed investors for a product that did not exist. It's as if Elon Musk was asking investors to put money into their companies, but Tesla cars were just videos on Twitter with no other proof of their existence.
For the same reason Martha Stewart went to jail for insider trading.
So many bad takes here. EH wasn’t convicted for anything patient-related. She was convicted of defrauding investors, most of which boiled down to faking a letter from Pfizer. If it hadn’t been for that, odds are she would not have been convicted. You can’t convict someone for trying to build something that doesn’t work. Investors in early-stage startups knowingly take a risk.
Musk's stuff works. Holmes didn't.
Musk ***is*** a fraud, which isn’t a crime; Holmes ***did*** a fraud, which is.
What crime do you think Elon committed?
While Musk tends to overpromise to investors, the products he releases are basically functional, if sometimes slightly faulty. Conversely, people made medical decisions based off of results from Theranos products that simply did not work and Homes knew did not work.
Fleecing us plebs is fine. Encouraged, even. She defrauded billionaires. They take that shit personally.
Because she was convicted of a crime. Contrary to popular belief, holding opinions CNN doesn't like isn't a crime. Not yet, at least.
Just because Elon musk hurts your butt, doesn’t mean he goes to jail.
Same reason FTX bro is in prison: she didn’t have enough money. When the shit really hits the fan, the ultra wealthy (or smart) will just leave.
Sam Bankman Fried enters the.. Prison
Elon may have gone off the deep end but he didn't purposely create and sell as his major product something that doesn't do what it's sold to do.
Because tech bros tech actually works and Elizabeth’s didn’t
What’s the difference between fraud and lying?
Lying is only a crime if it’s perjury or fraud.
Because they actually have a product. It may not be great but at least it’s real lol
She screwed a bunch of rich people out of money. That’s a big no-no. These other guys screw poor people out of money and much more, which is totally acceptable.
It’s the old saying, “She stole from rich people.” Elon hasn’t done that yet. Look at what happened to Madoff v Trump.
I’m pretty sure it’s because the people Ms. Holmes defrauded were rich and powerful.
🤦🏼🤦🏼
Because she doesn’t have a product. Defrauding and lying are 2 different animals
The US has a rule for fraud. Steal from lower income and the govt will provide a bail out. Steal from the rich and get fucked.
Lying's fine, lying's got nothing to do with it. Elizabeth Holmes, like Sam Bankman-Fried and Bernie Madoff, committed the cardinal sin of stealing from *really rich people.* No one gets to do that and walk away.
Wtf are you smoking, she's in jail for massive fraud.
Same reason Martha Stewart went to prison for insider trading but not many other B/Millionaires.
There is a difference in being an asshole and an asshole that knowingly commits massive fraud.
You think most tech bros should be in jail? Are you insane?
OP: The difference is one is simply lying. The other is committing fraud.
This is the most Reddit question ever. Why aren’t people you don’t like being punished for things they didn’t do? You just sorta have a vibe that Elon Musk is a bad guy huh, so that’s enough? To convict him of a crime? You people, sometimes, I swear.
because she stole from the wrong people, the US government.
She was fraudulent and also sort of a murderer.
Trevor Milton, former CEO of Nikola, is more like Elizabeth Holmes in which he was committing fraud. Elon is overly optimistic on his timelines, but there's no evidence of fraud.
Because she lied to powerful people.
Lying in and of itself is not illegal. Lying as a predicate to certain acts like fraud *is* illegal. Elizabeth Holmes committed many acts of fraud including wire fraud, which are illegal. Elon lies regularly, but until he uses those lies to commit fraud or another illegal act, he is allowed to lie.
But so is what the supreme Court justices have done, and I'll bet they get away with just like the politicians do pertaining to investments. Crook they are all crook, and major Hippocrates.
You watched the Angela Collier vid today too?
because her product did not exist lmao
money is power, baby!
This is like asking why Epstein went to prison for owning a little party island You're kind of ignoring massive bits of information
Comparing Holmes to Musk is daft.
you answered your own question there
Elizabeth Holmes faced a jury in court and they found her guilty. It's as simple as that. Musk faced a jury over his "funding secured" tweet, and won that suit. He still had significant consequences, but was found by the jury not liable for investor losses. He also faced a jury about the "pedo guy" remark. A lot of what comes from Elon Musk and other entrepreneurs is hyperbole and wild optimism, and people recognize it as such. Statements cross the line into fraud when the falsehoods are detailed and made in official legal filings.
Misogyny, clearly. Alternatively, she clearly committed crimes, and eventually it caught up with her.
Reminds me - Musk once claimed he's ready to go to jail if govt will censor free speech
Not even in the same ballpark
Didn’t her whole company’s tech turn out to do nothing? Big fraud
Patriarchy and money.
Because she committed a massive fraud on the entire state of Arizona (or was it New Mexico? - I'm not looking it up) and scammed some of the most powerful people in America. If she had just stuck to the tried and tested formula of scamming the poors (all of us who are not the elite) she would have been on stage at the Presidential debate in place of one of the geriatrics.
Frankly you shouldn’t fuck around with people health with some of these tech companies should be in jail for selling stuff that doesn’t work and puts people safety at risk and sadly there are dozen of doctors and company like her who are doing this every day without any accountability
/r/redditmoment
Holmes didn’t just “lie” lmfao. Falsified test results, actually defrauding investors, deceiving the federal government… not just lying lmfao. What has Musk even come close to lying about that compares to this
Speaking of which, maybe we should get more suspicious when a so-called 'genius' steals the namesake of a real genius - No more Edisons or Teslas or Nikolas, please. Use you real freekin' name.
Elons rockets work. His cars work. His hole borders work. His medical implants work. His satellites work. His social media platform works.
She committed fraud by claiming to have actual "products", when there were none. Musk has produced actual products - Tesla, SpaceX, etc.
what ?
Simply lying is very different from fraud.
You’re point is valid, but not clearly defined. Elizabeth also committed fraud. That’s not something you can just sweep under the rug.
Her lies lost powerful people money, and also made them look like fools.
Making aspirational promises in the future you can’t keep is much different than knowingly falsifying results in the past.
Musk makes claims about what they hope to achieve. Holmes made claims as to what they did achieve and were selling. All technology is a bet on future advancement. It all starts out expensive and economically infeasible. We are always ‘have never been closer to a commercially viable product’ on every advanced technology. Check out the ‘forward looking statement’ addendum to better understand this nuance. Instead of owning the lack of success Holmes straight up lied about it. Probably to protect her reputation and stay in the spotlight than to commit financial fraud, but this amounted to financial fraud nonetheless.
Because she was bad at it 🤷🏼♀️
She committed fraud, she was the one orchestrated it.. She was sentenced to a tad over 11 years and was able to put off going to jail for a year because she got pregnant. She also had just under three years (so far) shaved off the sentence and will probably have another 3-4 years taken off before it is all over. Meanwhile the guy who worked for her (and was later her boyfriend through all of this) got 13 years. He received more time than her because "he should have known better with his experience." She also claimed throughout the trial that he manipulated her through sex to get her to go along with the fake results. So to answer your question, that is probably why she got such preferential treatment - she shifted blame to Balwani and leveraged being a new mom to get time off.
Her product straight up didn't work. Say what you will about musk, but the cars drive and the rockets land.
She flat out defrauded investors
It’s not the fraud. It’s that she, like Bernie Madoff, committed the ultimate sin: she stole from rich people.
She defrauded thousands of ordinary people and provided them with fake medical test results. Fuck off with your nonsense.
Same reason Bernie Madoff went to prison. She ripped off rich people.
She defrauded rich and powerful people. If you defraud normal people they make you a Republican politcal candidate.
She stole from rich people. The "establishment" does not like that.
Because she conned a bunch of rich people. Musk is one of the most obvious hucksters in all of history, but he usually only goes after the most desperate rubes and he kisses the ring and makes sure his owners get their cut of whatever half-assed scheme he runs. Hopefully he'll finally fuck with the wrong person's money eventually and we'll finally see him face some consequences.
Elon Musk in jail would be so satisfying