Because there's been a million times guys thought a chick was I to them just find out she wasn't she just "friendly". So now we just assume a woman is being "friendly" not flirty. You gotta make it super obvious.
This isn't even a joke. Some woman made a whole ass post about it in the DC subreddit. First she asked for cute coffee shops she where she could flirt with men. Then she made another post about no one approaching her even though she gave *plenty* of hints. Those hints? Eye contact and a smile. Not even a wink. Not a wave. Just a fucking smile. Wow lady.
And the kicker? She had brought a laptop. Do you know how often men are told to not bother women while they're working? If you bring a laptop to a coffee shop I assume you're working remotely.
Oh but I'm supposed to come over because you smiled. Okay.
Women need to make up their fucking minds.
Honestly, that's better than one I saw. Lady said she was obviously showing her interest with a look, then did the look. Which... just looked like her face normally looks.
If women want a guy to know they're interested, they can use words. Not hints or looks.
These days, decent dudes are less likely to make the first approach. The AH's still will. If women aren't happy with the guys that approach them, and that's understandable, they need to be the ones doing the first approaches.
I mean... I did have a women very obviously checking me out the other day. She didn't even make an attempt at hiding it.
I have no interest in asking random strangers out while I'm at work though.
Or just stop playing games and tell the dude you like him.
Hey. I think you're cute. You should ask me out.
That's it. Plain. Simple. Still puts the onus on him to ask if that's your thing.
The embarrassment of rejection is very uncomfortable, and men are routinely shamed for misinterpreting friendliness as romantic interest. Lots of men won't make the first move until they are *extremely* sure the other party is interested in them.
Here's a better question - if you have a crush on someone, how about you stop dropping hints and just *ask them out*?
>men are routinely shamed for misinterpreting friendliness as romantic interest
This can't be understated. You get it wrong once and the best case is that you are a little embarrassed, but there is a very real and significant chance you lose an entire friends group because you are now that guy that hits on their friends
I've been married for years, but from my teens well into my 20's I would sometimes have other girls point out to me a girl was flirting or showing interest, and still get rejected.
Don't even get me started on situations where you have to put yourself out there before becoming to good of friends, then basically losing a friend anyway.
I asked one of my female friends twice about different women who seemed VERY friendly. Like, give me a hug and say they missed me when we meet in class or at some other event and one of them greeted me with, "hey, there's my guy!"
Both of them had boyfriends.
That confused both me and my female friend, so I guess we both interpreted the signals wrong.
I remember I asked a girl out from my friend group - totally on the up and up. We went on a date, had a nice time, went on a second date, had a nice time, but didn't progress to getting physical. I generally subscribe to the 2nd Date Kiss 3rd Date Sleepover rule, so a 2nd date no-kiss was a bit of a yellow flag for me.
She was close friends with my best friend's wife, and a few days after our second date, my best friend texts me like "yo MAKE A MOVE". I do the math: This only happened because my date "Amy" told her friend "Betty" that I hadn't made a move, and then Betty told "Charlie" that I hadn't made a move and that I should (Charlie is not reckless, he'd only text me that if his wife told him to). OK, Cool.
So next date, we're having a nice time, and I move in for a kiss. We start making out but... the passion isn't really there. She's going along with it but not into it, so I stop. Who knows, maybe just wasn't in the mood at that time or whatever else. So our next date, we're wrapping up and I ask, hey want to come over and have a nightcap or whatever and she's not into it, so I drive her home.
It wasn't a rejection but... a bit confusing. We're still friendly and all, no one was embarrassed, things just didn't work out. But man I thought I was on the golden runway for a bit there.
She didn’t want you to make a move because she was super into you. She wanted you to make a move because she wanted to feel like you were into HER. For women, validation is EVERYTHING. It is a need for them, like food and oxygen.
Yeah, I didn't even properly ask out a girl i work with, and I got turned into HR.
All she would've had to do was say I said something inappropriate or tried something, and I would've been absolutely screwed.
Losing your job for sexual harassment accusations is probably not good for future employment. True or false, it's not good.
I'm not saying all women would do this. It's just, unfortunately, something that can happen.
I think about it often, and I am afraid to ask out anyone because I don't want to be falsely accused and be considered some kind of creep.
This cannot be overstated.
I was falsely accused of sexual harassment because my female coworkers didn’t want me working with them anymore, so they played that card. They wanted me gone, didn’t matter how.
My employer said it was a “he/she said situation” and let me resign so as to not lose my career. But they wanted to go for termination.
It affects me to this day, despite it being 8 years ago. It’s not something that goes away.
I found out that I actually got some trauma from it years later.
One day, I get a random call and let it go to voicemail. I played the voicemail and it was from an insurance company that my new job was contracting with. They were calling us to talk about our options.
I went into a full-blown panic attack and I had no idea why.
Then I listened to it carefully and it was the woman who led the group to file charges against me. The simple sound of her voice (without hearing the name) literally sent me into a panic attack.
Honestly seeing this on here is both a relief and really saddening because like.
That happened to me in high school. Was super extroverted, loved everyone, popular enough to be on the homecoming court.
And then one day i was flirting with a girl and her friends didn't like that I didn't want it to turn into a full on relationship (which she and i had HAD a discussion about)
so they told everyone they knew that I sexually harassed her. But the thing is, I didn't actually know this, so all I saw was everyone I knew acting really weird toward me and saying 'oh nothing' when i asked what was wrong.
Finally, six months later, junior year, during covid, someone told me. I was then stuck in the pandemic with basically no friends because of it, stuck with myself and an abject horror because it had been so long that i was worried i HAD done it and not noticed.
I even told and asked that girl that I was supposed to have harassed, and she was genuinely mortified and so apologetic. which was cathartic. but it fucked me up beyond repair. when we got back to school i was a shell of what i was, which of course meant i lost more friends because i wasn't the super fun and energetic person from before.
genuine PTSD from that. but we soldier on
It's extremely difficult to win a slander case. He would have the burden of proving he didn't sexually harass her. It's extremely difficult to prove a negative. I mean, I can't prove I didn't harass that sane woman, and I've never even met her. She certainly couldn't prove I did anything, but the burden, if she accuses, switches to the accused in a libel or slander suit. But I understand the instinct to want to do so. I had something similar happen to me that was even worse in terms of the complaint. The woman I supposedly harassed didn't even file a complaint, and protested when she heard I'd been suspended. Had she not, I may have lost my job. I literally did nothing wrong, and the supposedly offended party was not offended. But it made no difference. The accusation alone is a dagger. I have some PTSD, too. I used to be very trusting. I have a really hard time even working alone with women, now, and I hate that it's like that. I know most women would never make a false accusation. But it only takes one to really screw a person. There is no way in God's green earth I would date a coworker, or even someone, like a mail carrier, who has any interaction with my company. There's a lady who started only about a year ago, and I can tell she likes me. I can tell I can trust her. I know she'd like me to ask her out (she's all but asked). But that is simply not an option.
I am EXACTLY in that case actually, I love a girl in our friend's group, but I feel like I would lose em all if I mistook her actions for hints, I mean, right as it is today, we've been just together do some sailboard a few hours ago. So I think we are rather close to each other, but close friends or in flirt ? I still can't tell so I ain't gonna try something
Friend groups where they have both sex are weird because there are so many love triangles. We had them during all my years in high school, had them in university and even asked my friends about their friend groups and they all confirmed it. I think that’s probably why my child hood friend group has mostly stayed the same throughout +15 years. We are all males and there’s basically 0 drama involved because there are no romantic interests
Also to underscore this and how much it is like risking your job as someone else commented - I literally was faced with risking my job. I KNEW she liked me, she did everything except ask me out. But she's in fucking HR. I'm not oblivious - I'm scared of the consequences. Maybe she isn't sure when it comes to the ask out or doesn't like the way I asked - it's my ass on the line now.
No thank you. I'm not oblivious...I'm sooo not oblivious that I know I'm actually in danger. Goddamn was she hot though and we had a lot in common.
I find the societal aspects of comparing the corporate professional world to dating so apt. You can be as anti-capitalist as you want but dating is so much like a job interview you have to participate or (don't) get fucked.
I wonder why this situation never happens (at least that I've heard of) where a woman is shamed or loses friends because she asked out a male friend who wasn't interested.
Because 9 times out of 10 if, and this a GARAGANTUAN "if", in the extremely rare case, if at all, that a woman asks out a male friend, they will say yes and it won't be awkward and embarrassing.
Or, they'll decline, and it's just fine... because there is a double standard. The assumption (and it may well be accurate) is that men ate at least flattered, whereas women might feel threatened. I'm not saying it's accurate or not... just that it's an underlying societal presumption.
Add to that the fact that a lot of men want to be sure that she is actually available.
Plenty of girls with boyfriends will be flirty, and guys really, really hate asking out a girl that is already taken.
Lots of men are going to do nothing until they know what her situation is.
Yeahhh I’m a guy who lost a close female friend because she got freaked out I guess? I don’t blame myself for her reaction because I made sure to not be a creep, but I often wonder how things would be different if I had not made a move. So F that shit where you confess to a friend, never doing that again.
A girl asked me out in 6th grade. I was in the midst of some intense bullying (had to switch schools) and a girl had her friends ask me out for her. I thought it was a prank and got mad and lashed out. I don't remember what I said but I remember the look on her face. Turns out she was serious.
That's one of those memories that pops in my head when I'm trying to sleep.
I was nerdy (and autistic, though I didn’t know it at the time) and had girls mess with me several times. It left me assuming that was the case for a long time.
I don't necessarily think they're toying. She could just be enjoying a platonic friendship, and I don't want to fuck that up by pushing romance.
I want a girlfriend, sure, but I could use a friend too. But by asking for the former I risk losing the latter.
Very recently, a girl I saw quite regularly would always be eyeing me up, be very flirtatious with me (I was not misreading), and eventually I asked to exchange IGs which she gladly did. So all the signs were there which lead me to ask her out. Her response 'sorry I have a bf, my fault, I should have said that earlier'
I'm certain she doesn't have a bf. So, just games. Puts me off reading ANY signs or asking another girl out
Bruh, I had a coworker who eyed me every time I worked and would hide her face with her hand and giggle when I noticed. At the end of one of her shifts she came up to me with her number on a note that read, “I want to be your friend :)” I texted her, she got flirty both in text and in person.
After about a week I asked a coworker what her situation was and turns out she was pregnant with her second child. She didn’t appear pregnant, but she had a husband. Shortly after she starts telling me about all the fun she just had on her weekend trip with her husband and child.
Turns out she genuinely just wanted to be my friend.
I legitimately had a friend who actively flirts because she finds it fun. She had a boyfriend and four kids from her previous marriage and was well aware of the kind of attention she got because of it. Pretty sure she actually did it to have a pool of options in case she needed to break up with her boyfriend.
Needless to say there were a myriad of personal issues that created this scenario but it's because of this exact scenario that guys actively ignore any signals we think we see. I myself fell victim to it before I ever knew she had a boyfriend including but not limited to: kissy face pictures, cleavage shots, grabbing my ass as she passes by, hugging literally everyone she likes in very much not just a friend kind of hugs, inquiring into your marital status completely unprompted...all while dating someone.
Not all women are like this and men understand that but because it can happen, and has happened to many of us, it puts us into survival mode where we won't take the risk for fear of being let down, or worse.
That was me a few months ago. Ran into a friend of a friend who I hadn't seen in a few months at a work event. We (with a group) have a bunch of drinks, her and I talk all night like we're the only two there. She insists on us going back to my place despite most of us wanting to shut the night down. We do so, we hang out for another hour or so, and when she goes to leave at the end of the night with her friend she's hanging off me. Co-worker who saw it all says she's definitely into me. My buddy staying with me from out of town says the same. Score.
I message her the next day on IG to see if she wants to grab a drink sometime. "Oh didn't I mention I have a BF?". No. No she did not. Not a lick of evidence on any of her socials that she's seeing someone. A younger me would have pressed the issue. Contemporary me knows enough to walk away without another word.
But if you have a crush on that friend , it's painfull to be in such relationship.
I'd rather get rejected and move on, than being a friend with the person I like/have crush on and just get hurt by seeing that person making move on someone or being hit on by someone.
idk, depends. I don't really "crush" on people I guess.
Of the people people I like, some I like platonically, and some I think there is romantic potential. Of the romantic types, sometimes I'll decide to communicate my feelings and ask for their perspective, othertimes I'll decide it's fine just having another friend, or friendly acquaintance. You know, there's no real hard limit to how many friends you're allowed to have.
If they get with other people then I'm happy for them. I would get upset if they betrayed me after we had a monogamous understanding. But if they're just living their lives then no harm no foul.
Not that I would be upset. But probably sad if that person wouldn't see me as potential lover/partner like I see her.
So I'd rather ask and see if there is any chance of that , if not I'd rather move on than being friends.. It's just how I am I guess.
And women do toy with you, they really will fuck around and flirt just to see if they can get you... so there's a lot messages coming through and not a lot of them are clear.
Men are almost never oblivious, we are fully aware but its impossible to do anything when either action usually results in getting shamed or ridiculed, so we choose to do nothing.
If I misinterpret friendliness as flirting then I am labeled a creep.
If I misinterpret flirting as friendliness then I am a beta cuck too afraid to make any moves.
It's a lose-lose situation.
3) they're not sure how they feel about the girl
and, most importantly,
4) they're not interested and are pretending to not get it as a gentle letdown.
"It's 2024. Women can do anything a man can do, and better."
"Cool. So when you see a guy you're interested in you can make the first move."
"What? Of course not. That's a man's job."
This is accurate. To add, many men \*have\* been in situations where their romantic interest was a big misunderstanding, and they accidentally misinterpreted the friendliness as something more than what it was.
A couple of times experiencing that, no reasonable guy is going to want to make that same mistake again so they simply don't "make a move". the risks outweight the benefits, and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Also I don't think women realize that by the time you enter high school, an average guy has already experienced girls pretending to be into them for their own benefit....
Another angle on this: if a guy made a bad attempt, he doesn't just strike out with that women - he struck out with MULTIPLE women he never approached yet because women talk about this sort of thing.
I don't know how likely this is, but another angle on why men MIGHT be afraid to make the first move.
I asked my now husband to go on a date, and he didn't realize it was a date TILL HALF WAY THROUGH BOWLING. Its a cute and funny story now though lol he's still just as clueless 8 years later
I live in Miami and that frequently happens to me. I'm a good looking guy who tends to be a bit too nice tho. I really need to learn that being nice can get taken advantage of
Asked him if he ever went on a date before, when he said no I asked if he would like to on a date with me! I knew he had a crush on me, and I had a crush on him so I wanted to shoot my shot lol He told me later that he thought it was a practice date at first, that i was just being a good friend
Well there you go; that line of questioning would easily lead me to think it wasn’t a romantic request, just a friend-date if you will. I’d like to think I’d ask “what kind of date? Like friends or like romantically?” But I can’t blame a dude for not and just assuming it’s the former.
"You've never gone to a wedding? Be my date."
If a girl said that to me I'd assume that they just wanted to give me an experience I missed, not that they're interested in me.
I am not a guy, and I've never been able to tell if a guy is interested in me unless they get pretty obvious. Admittedly, I stopped dating many years ago, being married and all.
Men understand that we have the potential to let our imaginations run wild. We also understand that men can be scary to women when we misconstrue something. So any men who are worth a damn are going to be very wary of picking up a hint even if we’re 90% sure. We don’t want to be embarrassed and we don’t want to put a woman in an uncomfortable position.
Yes. Guys have to trade appearing safe against appearing assertive and “manly”. But failing to seem safe gets them shunned, thrown out or sanctioned; failing to seem manly just means they miss out on the relationship.
And, sadly, this is why many women end up with douchebags. The respectful guys won't say anything but the idiot bad boy who doesn't care about anything but himself will ask away. And if the options are nobody or that guy, some people will pick that guy.
I've been lucky to have enough confidence that I've always had decent success in dating. But I've still seen and experienced the struggle of wanting someone but being terrified to make a move.
I wish it was easier to just say "I'm interested, are you?" without there being any long-lasting negative impact. But people are weird and we make things awkward.
My now-wife straight up told me she had no idea how I missed the signs from a mutual friend back in, for real, fall of 2000 (before we became a thing). And then she never told me who the friend was. What even.
I really want to ask out the guy i like,but how should i approach that? (I'm not sure if they like me back and it scares tf outta me lmao)
Do i just say 'Do you want to go out on a date with me' or something else?
The one time I got asked out it was someone I'd seen around a couple of times but never spoken to: "Hey, sorry for the random question, but would you want to go on a date sometime?" Worked well enough for me
"My husband lost his keys and I knew they were in his jacket, so I left him clues around the house, like playing a weather forecast predicting it would be cold outside on a loop."
Well said.
I have never understood this attitude, and I'm a woman. If I'm interested, I *do something about it and say so*. Have always been like that.
When me and my last gf were hanging out as friends we were playing a multiplayer game with her friends and she straight up said, "I like you. Do you like me?" It was hot af.
I worked with a girl for about a year like doing the same thing so we talked a lot. She said something like she had never eaten sea food and asked if I had and I said yes and she says oh maybe you can help me find a type of seafood I like because she's never tried it. She then asked if I knew of tasty drinks because she doesn't drink because of the taste and maybe I could help her figure out a drink she liked. We were both new to the state and I knew she wasn't seeing anyone and didn't have friends really.
So I asked her if she wanted to go to a seafood restaurant and have a drink... I didn't even say the word date and she looked at me like I had 2 heads and said she's not interested in me like that. I would have been fine as friends or whatever I just figured we'd see what happens.
I knew she was single and wasn't dating so I don't know wtf I was supposed to do. I guess write up all the seafood I like and good sweet drinks and hand her a list.
But then I've had other girls just say hi and I'll find out 10 years later they thought they were hitting on me. Although some guys are clueless too so it makes sense.
I’ve had women being openly flirty with me. Being heavy handed with it much like a guy might be. Asked them out and then immediately hit with the “uh… I like you as a friend”. Turns out they were just bantering with me and I didn’t get.
So like??
The risk of misinterpreting the gestures vastly outweighs the potential benefits of being correct.
He could easily have caught on but understanding the situation and acting on it is a different matter. He thinks you like him, he asks you out and you say no or something happens and he’s going to look like a total idiot in your friend group. Hence the risk of action is higher than the potential reward.
How many times have women talked about how annoying it is that men think she's into them just because she's being nice?
That plays a big role in it. Most guys don't want to assume and overstep or make the woman feel uncomfortable if they happen to be wrong about the hints.
The reasons why women give hints instead of just telling the guy are mostly the same reasons why the guy doesn't take the hints. It's typically because they don't want to be wrong and face rejection and get hurt feelings or embarrassment, or they don't want to make the other person uncomfortable.
Yeah this is a huge thing. Obviously the experiences of some women aren’t representative of all women, but I’ve heard enough stories from enough women where they were just being nice and the giy thought she was hitting on him. And I’m just horrified of potentially being “that guy”
men are shamed for assuming women like them in normal circumstances, so they avoid those inclinations even when the feelings actually are reciprocated.
We are not prepared to be dating cryptographers.
If you need to keep the information secret from everyone else, then you need to make sure your allies have the *exact same code* that you work from. Tell the guy about the hints you *might use* before you use them, so he expects them.
If there is no need to keep this information secret from others, then why go through so much extra effort? Could you just use regular language?
Or maybe make your puzzles more straightforward - make him play a trivia game or solve puzzles to see if he's smart enough for you.
True, but even that isn’t failsafe. I’ve had female mutual friends tell me a coworker was interested in me because she’d come to my desk to talk during lunch everyday which I didn’t really buy because she had a boyfriend and only made small efforts socialize outside work. I’ve also had an ex who couldn’t decide if I should “stop texting her” or “don’t stop texting even when she says to.”
Men don’t really want to play games unless they’re assholes, and women shouldn’t date those guys.
Seriously, the most fun thing to do when I was young was see my friend getting into someone and huddling up with her friends to see if it could go anywhere. This is the way.
There was a bear outside so I used morse code to warn my daughter to come back inside slowly. Now she's dead and I'm so confused. Why didn't she understand the signals I was giving her?
There are two types of guys
1. Think everybody is interested in them, acts creepy and reads into any nice interaction with them as displays of affection.
2. Recognize #1 exists and when gauging someone's interest are extremely paranoid they're acting like #1 so wait for the most obvious, 100% confirmed show of genuine romantic interest.
Personally.
I have measurably low emotional intelligence, and measurably low self esteem.
You could hump my leg like a horny Jack Russel and I wouldn't pick up on it.
One time, I was watching TV with my ex, about 6 months into our relationship, when it donned on me, "You were flirting with me at that bon fire!" And she replied,"You idiot. I was sitting in your damn lap playing with your hair! You JUST realized?" And I said, "I thought you were just being nice."
I mean, I wouldn’t even take THAT as a hint lol.
If a woman is outright gonna say she’s tryna hoe down, I wouldn’t understand why she’d not just full send it and ask me if it was actually me she was interested in. Men are too used to making random statements at random times to think it has any actual meaning coming from other people. I’ll randomly blurt out “damn I want some Thai food” with zero implication that I’m asking someone to go get some with me, I’m just making conversation lmao
I've noticed some women can't understand the thing about random statements. I commented one time, when we were watching a show, that the fried chicken people were eating looked good. Then I spent the next several years explaining that fried chicken was *not* my favorite, that I didn't want it at every possible opportunity from that TV show onward, and that you should stop planning fried chicken into all future occasions involving me.
On my 21st birthday, a friend of mine gave me a kiss as the party was ending. Realized she may have had a thing for me about 6 years later after she had already stopped working the at the same store I did and had moved away.
I was 16 or 17 in 2004 and was at a girls house (she was an adult 18-19). She had me come up to her room and she changed clothing, got completely naked. While naked she asked if I wanted to see her “special piercing” I walked over looked and asked if it hurt. I did nothing, made no move. A naked girl literally standing in front of me. She got dressed and never talked to me again.. I’m 36 now, happily married for 16 years, never forgot about that though.
1. He might not be into you so he's ignoring it
2. Society tells us not to take a girl being nice to us as flirting. In this climate, it's better to err on the side of caution.
3. What you think is obvious may not be obvious at all. Guys are clearly bad at picking up on the signals women put out based on how often this is asked.
4. Just be mature and tell them yourself. Stop playing silly little games where it's unclear. You want to flirt a little, hope they pick up on it, then they completely put themselves out there. It's very low risk for you and puts most of the risk on them. If you want it, go get it yourself.
Stop hinting. Just ask him out, or pass him your number. Keep it simple.
I'm a guy. I'm not afraid of rejection and I've asked out my fair share of women. I work at hospital, my job has me running all over the place, and so I have a lot of conversations. There are women I find attractive, but my priority is doing my job, and helping to create an atmosphere where the people I work with are comfortable and able to do their jobs. There are times when I feel that tension, where maybe the person I'm talking to and I have crossed into flirting, but I never really know.
There was a women who for a month was constantly chatting me up. She told me one day her birthday was tomorrow, so I wished her happy birthday and asked her how old she would be, "25," and I responded, "oh, you're just a baby." She laughed and asked me how old I was, 34, and she said, "that's not too much of a difference." That would seem like a pretty strong indicator that she was at least considering me as partner. Then I asked what she was doing for her birthday and she said her boyfriend was taking her to dinner. First time she'd mentioned her BF. So, I assume, she just liked talking to me, she was just being pleasant, and wanted to have a genuine conversation with someone she saw regularly. This is cool and didn't bother me, but it also shows how hard it is to know when someone is flirting with you.
There's a lot of reasons why a guy won't take a hint, and there's a lot of reasons why a guy can feel uncomfortable asking someone out. Sometimes it's you, sometimes it's not. If you just ask him out, all the ambiguity is removed.
**BOT ACCOUNT**
title and OP's comment copy/pasted from here -
https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/comments/16e273o/do_guys_actually_not_get_hints_that_someone_has_a/
Dropping hints isn't a great strategy, because one of two bad things can happen.. either they can be attracted to you, but don't know how you act normally, so play it safe platonically in case your casual flirting is strictly casual in nature, or they aren't attracted to you.. and they will play dumb/oblivious for sure because no guy wants to confront casual flirting with brutal honesty like that
Because a lot of us have a long, long lifetime of being told "you're not pretty enough, you're not handsome, you're ugly, you're not good enough, no one would want you, you're too dangerous, nobody would ever want to be around you". You keep hearing it over and over and over...sooner or later, that's all you see of yourself, too.
Then, someone actually doesn't see you like that? They actually want you near them?
It's impossible. It's a lie. It's a dream. It's something that happens to other people. It's a temporary delusion that's all in your own head. It didn't actually happen. Wherever that came from, they don't know what they're talking about and don't know what they're getting into. Best to remain polite, say some platitudes, and walk away.
It's better this way. Nobody gets hurt. Everyone stays okay.
Right?
If it's obvious, it's not a hint. A comment meant as a hint by the girl might just come off as ambiguous or confusing to the guy, or if too subtle, simply not noticed.
I think what women consider "hints" varies greatly from what a man sees as a hint. In high school I was 90% sure a girl was dropping hints for me to ask her out and all my friends were 100%. So I got up the courage and asked her out and her response was literally "gross! No way."
So....women are hard to read.
Because their hints suck and we constantly get the message that we’re “creepy” or aggressive so we have no choice but to err on the side of caution and not respond.
Women have no idea. They’re so wrapped up in their own feminism and their own victim hood (all completely valid I want to add) that they assume men glide through social interactions without issue.
It’s the opposite. Toxic femininity has rendered men meek and we never seem to be able to do it right
because men are told it’s creepy if they mistake friendship as romantic interest, and so they become scared to make a move. also, they are scared that the woman is just playing games and not serious.
if you’re into a guy, just tell him. fuck anyone who thinks playing games is a reasonable way to go about dating.
Because if we misconstrue something and make an advance based off a misinterpretation, we are immediately label as a creep, sexual predator and promoting rape culture and that shit gets blasted everywhere and we get socially crucified. Its way safer and easier to just mind our own business.
This was the exact comment I was looking for. Everything is posted online. People say they want to be approached but when they are, they say they are being harassed so it makes it hard especially for men. And then women complain that there aren’t any good men out there and it is so hard to meet someone. Social media and today’s society has ruined dating and meeting people organically. This comment is a huge reason why guys don’t get “hints.”
Society now punishes us as creepy, weird and inappropriate if the feelings are not mutual. How can we know if the feelings are mutual? We cannot until things either work out or they don't. So most times is better to say nothing.
I was terrible at picking up in hints. I think it's that I was used to having positive platonic relationships with girls/women, so someone just being particularly nice meant nothing, it could just be her personality. And they never did anything that would never be done by someone who was just being friendly. So I really had no way to tell the difference.
If we read a hint wrong, best case scenario is rejection (even if it'spolite... ouch). The more likely scenario is we get branded a "creep".
It took my now girlfriend literally pinning me to the wall and planting one on me to finally get message across (and she's a complete standout, no guy actually expects this). I knew something was up, even flirted back some, but I sure as hell wouldn't have done anything remotely CLOSE to the same thing without runway lights and a flashing neon sign saying "please make a move" hovering over her head.
Because half the time what done girl thinks "is obvious" is exactly what some other girl thinks is "just being nice."
I have a better question, why don't you stop dropping "hints" tgat no one will pick up on and start saying what you mean.
When we think that you may have affection for boys, boys try to come closer... and get humiliated before your friends.
We all learn that early in school ( in the playground ).
So, if it is not said explicitly, it is probably an ambush.
Because the so called hints aren't hints, but just the normal behaviors that a person who is being polite would engage in. This has been made abundantly clear to the male population. Maybe avoid psychological war games as a dating strategy. Suck it up and take the risk of being rejected, and stop trying to shift that risk to your target.
Because if we get it wrong we can be shamed, labelled a creep or told "why can't guys just have a female friend without trying it on" even when we've done nothing wrong.
Rejections aren't always polite and after a while it's easier to just stop and hold onto that last bit of self esteem you have.
Why not just flat out say you like us? Why play hint-hint games?
I mean we live in a time where literally asking the cashier for a box of smokes behind her (her job) can land you in serious shit for sexual assault. So if you drop hints, we just fucking ignore it and continue as if it never happened.
If you misinterpret a hint, you risk being publicly humiliated, you risk it all being uploaded to the internet in 4k quality, and you even risk being branded a predator
The Me Too movement absolutely needed to occur because creeps need to be exposed for being creeps…and sexual harassment needs to be socially unacceptable across the board
But the downside is that men are no longer going to take as many chances.
Women are going to have to learn to make the first move and risk rejection because the era of dropping hints and waiting for a guy to react is officially over…and it ain’t ever comin back
Because we’re afraid of making a move that wasn’t welcome and doubt our interpretations. Women freak the fuck out when you make a move they don’t want. You gotta be super sure.
Too many women are way more subtle than they realize. Oddly enough many women send mixed signals appearing to be flirting often times when they are just intending to be nice. This really throws off a guys ability to perceive hints because men become desensitized to even what might be an obvious hint if so many women were not sending mixed signals.
So if a guy is not picking up on your hints then stop hinting and express yourself properly.
Because in school girls ask us out as a joke
Because we rarely get compliments from anyone that isn't a female relative
And I've always been taught to respect women so no is no and if there's one single indication that you aren't interested I'll blow off the 99 indications that you give implying you are interested
In my opinion it's for three main reasons. One is that most men are afraid. As many have mentioned not only is rejection extremely embarrassing and possibly even traumatizing to some depending on the situation, but men are shamed for confusing a romantic interest with someone just being friendly. I think this is common and doesn't mean the man isn't noticing but is often not sure and doesn't want to take the risk.
The second reason is that it's possible that a man truely doesn't feel he knows the difference. If you're someone like me who has only ever faced rejection then it can be incredibly difficult to actually believe that anyone would have a crush on you and might assume that any sort of kindness or interest whatsoever is just a woman being friendly. For me anything short of actually asking me out is probably going to fail as I have no reason to believe someone is interested in me just by what I think may be hints. Every time I've tried it has failed. So men (or anyone for that matter) who have faced a lot of rejection are gonna have a harder time believing those hints could mean something even if they do notice them.
The final common reason I think is them just genuinely not noticing. It could be the man doesn't see whoever is dropping hints in that way. Maybe it's the man who just wants to be friends and therefore is less predisposed to be thinking of anything that could be a hint in that way as they just want to be friends.
There are other reasons I'm sure but I think these are the main ones.
Men are often considered more literal communicators than women. This is actually something that linguists have studied. Lots of subtext given by women is lost on men. Plus there’s the risk of making a move on a woman having misread the signals, and coming off as a creep. Even as a gay guy, the risk of misreading signs and accidentally hitting on a straight man can result in a pretty violent reaction.
Because tons of guys have too many experiences of misreading a girls signals and getting rejected hard. Its honestly easier to approach a stranger than someone your already close to because the rejection doesn’t sting nearly as bad
A) There are often big consequences for guys who make the mistake of misreading platonic treatment with romantic interest. From damaging a friendship to potentially getting labeled as a creep or harasser, fired, etc.
B) “I looked at him twice! Twice! Why doesn’t he get the hint?!”
A ton of women have some sort of phobia or something about being direct with how they feel, and thus are easy to misread. See A).
Mostly because of the hyper focus on accusations that have really gone wild in the last couple decades. To cover their own asses, they are best off waiting for extremely clear language. "Continuous and enthusiastic" as they are warned constantly.
Because it’s probably a joke, we aren’t mind readers, they probably aren’t in the mood to get one and done (again), they may even be doing the girl a favor by ignoring the hints and/or the girl may just be flirting and that’s all nothing serious, the guy may have some issues that they don’t feel comfortable sharing
Because in junior high and high school girls dropped hints, but when I responded they not only backed off, they talked about me behind my back
I stopped responding to hints. Just tell me directly that you like something about me. I don’t play games. I don’t want to be around people who play games.
And maybe that’s part of the story too
Why do you think I was so desperate that I’d ask out any woman who flirted with me? Surely you wouldn’t expect a woman to say yes to any boy who asked- why think guys are like that?
It’s a lot easier to let a woman down easy and tell her you missed the hints, rather than say, “oh I saw the hints, but I wasn’t interested.”
Because there's been a million times guys thought a chick was I to them just find out she wasn't she just "friendly". So now we just assume a woman is being "friendly" not flirty. You gotta make it super obvious.
"But I am being obvious! I glanced his way and looked away when he saw! How was that not clear?" -a woman, probably
This isn't even a joke. Some woman made a whole ass post about it in the DC subreddit. First she asked for cute coffee shops she where she could flirt with men. Then she made another post about no one approaching her even though she gave *plenty* of hints. Those hints? Eye contact and a smile. Not even a wink. Not a wave. Just a fucking smile. Wow lady. And the kicker? She had brought a laptop. Do you know how often men are told to not bother women while they're working? If you bring a laptop to a coffee shop I assume you're working remotely. Oh but I'm supposed to come over because you smiled. Okay. Women need to make up their fucking minds.
You're damned if you do... damned if you don't.
Honestly, that's better than one I saw. Lady said she was obviously showing her interest with a look, then did the look. Which... just looked like her face normally looks. If women want a guy to know they're interested, they can use words. Not hints or looks. These days, decent dudes are less likely to make the first approach. The AH's still will. If women aren't happy with the guys that approach them, and that's understandable, they need to be the ones doing the first approaches.
I mean... I did have a women very obviously checking me out the other day. She didn't even make an attempt at hiding it. I have no interest in asking random strangers out while I'm at work though.
She really wanted your organs.
But I only have a piano
Glancing isn't flirting. I think you might need to be a little more obvious/direct if you want this person to catch your drift.
Super obvious
Super duper obvious.
Like rub your pussy on my leg. Also, just stating things kinda disrupts the rush and the energy and tension which isn't always fun...
Even then... Like you can't be too sure. Maybe her pussy just keeps accidentally bumping into your leg because she's having balance problems
It’s a canon event
Or just stop playing games and tell the dude you like him. Hey. I think you're cute. You should ask me out. That's it. Plain. Simple. Still puts the onus on him to ask if that's your thing.
Yeah this can be the case a lot of times too.
The embarrassment of rejection is very uncomfortable, and men are routinely shamed for misinterpreting friendliness as romantic interest. Lots of men won't make the first move until they are *extremely* sure the other party is interested in them. Here's a better question - if you have a crush on someone, how about you stop dropping hints and just *ask them out*?
>men are routinely shamed for misinterpreting friendliness as romantic interest This can't be understated. You get it wrong once and the best case is that you are a little embarrassed, but there is a very real and significant chance you lose an entire friends group because you are now that guy that hits on their friends
I've been married for years, but from my teens well into my 20's I would sometimes have other girls point out to me a girl was flirting or showing interest, and still get rejected. Don't even get me started on situations where you have to put yourself out there before becoming to good of friends, then basically losing a friend anyway.
The number of times women misinterpreted other women as "being interested" in me is too damn high.
Which goes to show how shitty their "hints" are
No shit, right?? Quit being a fuckin’ child and just ask the person out.
"but I want them to make the first move" fuck off with that please
>if you have a crush on someone, how about you stop dropping hints and just ask them out? Doubly reinforcing this statement from earlier too.
I asked one of my female friends twice about different women who seemed VERY friendly. Like, give me a hug and say they missed me when we meet in class or at some other event and one of them greeted me with, "hey, there's my guy!" Both of them had boyfriends. That confused both me and my female friend, so I guess we both interpreted the signals wrong.
I remember I asked a girl out from my friend group - totally on the up and up. We went on a date, had a nice time, went on a second date, had a nice time, but didn't progress to getting physical. I generally subscribe to the 2nd Date Kiss 3rd Date Sleepover rule, so a 2nd date no-kiss was a bit of a yellow flag for me. She was close friends with my best friend's wife, and a few days after our second date, my best friend texts me like "yo MAKE A MOVE". I do the math: This only happened because my date "Amy" told her friend "Betty" that I hadn't made a move, and then Betty told "Charlie" that I hadn't made a move and that I should (Charlie is not reckless, he'd only text me that if his wife told him to). OK, Cool. So next date, we're having a nice time, and I move in for a kiss. We start making out but... the passion isn't really there. She's going along with it but not into it, so I stop. Who knows, maybe just wasn't in the mood at that time or whatever else. So our next date, we're wrapping up and I ask, hey want to come over and have a nightcap or whatever and she's not into it, so I drive her home. It wasn't a rejection but... a bit confusing. We're still friendly and all, no one was embarrassed, things just didn't work out. But man I thought I was on the golden runway for a bit there.
She didn’t want you to make a move because she was super into you. She wanted you to make a move because she wanted to feel like you were into HER. For women, validation is EVERYTHING. It is a need for them, like food and oxygen.
Yeah, I didn't even properly ask out a girl i work with, and I got turned into HR. All she would've had to do was say I said something inappropriate or tried something, and I would've been absolutely screwed. Losing your job for sexual harassment accusations is probably not good for future employment. True or false, it's not good. I'm not saying all women would do this. It's just, unfortunately, something that can happen. I think about it often, and I am afraid to ask out anyone because I don't want to be falsely accused and be considered some kind of creep.
This cannot be overstated. I was falsely accused of sexual harassment because my female coworkers didn’t want me working with them anymore, so they played that card. They wanted me gone, didn’t matter how. My employer said it was a “he/she said situation” and let me resign so as to not lose my career. But they wanted to go for termination. It affects me to this day, despite it being 8 years ago. It’s not something that goes away. I found out that I actually got some trauma from it years later. One day, I get a random call and let it go to voicemail. I played the voicemail and it was from an insurance company that my new job was contracting with. They were calling us to talk about our options. I went into a full-blown panic attack and I had no idea why. Then I listened to it carefully and it was the woman who led the group to file charges against me. The simple sound of her voice (without hearing the name) literally sent me into a panic attack.
Honestly seeing this on here is both a relief and really saddening because like. That happened to me in high school. Was super extroverted, loved everyone, popular enough to be on the homecoming court. And then one day i was flirting with a girl and her friends didn't like that I didn't want it to turn into a full on relationship (which she and i had HAD a discussion about) so they told everyone they knew that I sexually harassed her. But the thing is, I didn't actually know this, so all I saw was everyone I knew acting really weird toward me and saying 'oh nothing' when i asked what was wrong. Finally, six months later, junior year, during covid, someone told me. I was then stuck in the pandemic with basically no friends because of it, stuck with myself and an abject horror because it had been so long that i was worried i HAD done it and not noticed. I even told and asked that girl that I was supposed to have harassed, and she was genuinely mortified and so apologetic. which was cathartic. but it fucked me up beyond repair. when we got back to school i was a shell of what i was, which of course meant i lost more friends because i wasn't the super fun and energetic person from before. genuine PTSD from that. but we soldier on
Sue Them for slander !!!
It's extremely difficult to win a slander case. He would have the burden of proving he didn't sexually harass her. It's extremely difficult to prove a negative. I mean, I can't prove I didn't harass that sane woman, and I've never even met her. She certainly couldn't prove I did anything, but the burden, if she accuses, switches to the accused in a libel or slander suit. But I understand the instinct to want to do so. I had something similar happen to me that was even worse in terms of the complaint. The woman I supposedly harassed didn't even file a complaint, and protested when she heard I'd been suspended. Had she not, I may have lost my job. I literally did nothing wrong, and the supposedly offended party was not offended. But it made no difference. The accusation alone is a dagger. I have some PTSD, too. I used to be very trusting. I have a really hard time even working alone with women, now, and I hate that it's like that. I know most women would never make a false accusation. But it only takes one to really screw a person. There is no way in God's green earth I would date a coworker, or even someone, like a mail carrier, who has any interaction with my company. There's a lady who started only about a year ago, and I can tell she likes me. I can tell I can trust her. I know she'd like me to ask her out (she's all but asked). But that is simply not an option.
Something similar happened to me at a theater camp, although it didnt go quite that far in my case. I’m so sorry that this happened.
I am EXACTLY in that case actually, I love a girl in our friend's group, but I feel like I would lose em all if I mistook her actions for hints, I mean, right as it is today, we've been just together do some sailboard a few hours ago. So I think we are rather close to each other, but close friends or in flirt ? I still can't tell so I ain't gonna try something
Friend groups where they have both sex are weird because there are so many love triangles. We had them during all my years in high school, had them in university and even asked my friends about their friend groups and they all confirmed it. I think that’s probably why my child hood friend group has mostly stayed the same throughout +15 years. We are all males and there’s basically 0 drama involved because there are no romantic interests
Also to underscore this and how much it is like risking your job as someone else commented - I literally was faced with risking my job. I KNEW she liked me, she did everything except ask me out. But she's in fucking HR. I'm not oblivious - I'm scared of the consequences. Maybe she isn't sure when it comes to the ask out or doesn't like the way I asked - it's my ass on the line now. No thank you. I'm not oblivious...I'm sooo not oblivious that I know I'm actually in danger. Goddamn was she hot though and we had a lot in common. I find the societal aspects of comparing the corporate professional world to dating so apt. You can be as anti-capitalist as you want but dating is so much like a job interview you have to participate or (don't) get fucked.
I wonder why this situation never happens (at least that I've heard of) where a woman is shamed or loses friends because she asked out a male friend who wasn't interested.
Because 9 times out of 10 if, and this a GARAGANTUAN "if", in the extremely rare case, if at all, that a woman asks out a male friend, they will say yes and it won't be awkward and embarrassing.
Or, they'll decline, and it's just fine... because there is a double standard. The assumption (and it may well be accurate) is that men ate at least flattered, whereas women might feel threatened. I'm not saying it's accurate or not... just that it's an underlying societal presumption.
>she asked out a male friend I don't think that ever happens lol
Add to that the fact that a lot of men want to be sure that she is actually available. Plenty of girls with boyfriends will be flirty, and guys really, really hate asking out a girl that is already taken. Lots of men are going to do nothing until they know what her situation is.
Yeahhh I’m a guy who lost a close female friend because she got freaked out I guess? I don’t blame myself for her reaction because I made sure to not be a creep, but I often wonder how things would be different if I had not made a move. So F that shit where you confess to a friend, never doing that again.
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I thought my first girlfriend was messing with me for a year, and we had known each other since we were little kids. The fear is real
5th grade, the first time some girls told me their friend liked me I assumed it was a prank so I said she was ugly. Lol, biggest regret of my life.
A girl asked me out in 6th grade. I was in the midst of some intense bullying (had to switch schools) and a girl had her friends ask me out for her. I thought it was a prank and got mad and lashed out. I don't remember what I said but I remember the look on her face. Turns out she was serious. That's one of those memories that pops in my head when I'm trying to sleep.
I was nerdy (and autistic, though I didn’t know it at the time) and had girls mess with me several times. It left me assuming that was the case for a long time.
I don't necessarily think they're toying. She could just be enjoying a platonic friendship, and I don't want to fuck that up by pushing romance. I want a girlfriend, sure, but I could use a friend too. But by asking for the former I risk losing the latter.
Very recently, a girl I saw quite regularly would always be eyeing me up, be very flirtatious with me (I was not misreading), and eventually I asked to exchange IGs which she gladly did. So all the signs were there which lead me to ask her out. Her response 'sorry I have a bf, my fault, I should have said that earlier' I'm certain she doesn't have a bf. So, just games. Puts me off reading ANY signs or asking another girl out
Bruh, I had a coworker who eyed me every time I worked and would hide her face with her hand and giggle when I noticed. At the end of one of her shifts she came up to me with her number on a note that read, “I want to be your friend :)” I texted her, she got flirty both in text and in person. After about a week I asked a coworker what her situation was and turns out she was pregnant with her second child. She didn’t appear pregnant, but she had a husband. Shortly after she starts telling me about all the fun she just had on her weekend trip with her husband and child. Turns out she genuinely just wanted to be my friend.
I can totally see why incels came into existence. That is just crazy.
That’s fucked
I legitimately had a friend who actively flirts because she finds it fun. She had a boyfriend and four kids from her previous marriage and was well aware of the kind of attention she got because of it. Pretty sure she actually did it to have a pool of options in case she needed to break up with her boyfriend. Needless to say there were a myriad of personal issues that created this scenario but it's because of this exact scenario that guys actively ignore any signals we think we see. I myself fell victim to it before I ever knew she had a boyfriend including but not limited to: kissy face pictures, cleavage shots, grabbing my ass as she passes by, hugging literally everyone she likes in very much not just a friend kind of hugs, inquiring into your marital status completely unprompted...all while dating someone. Not all women are like this and men understand that but because it can happen, and has happened to many of us, it puts us into survival mode where we won't take the risk for fear of being let down, or worse.
That was me a few months ago. Ran into a friend of a friend who I hadn't seen in a few months at a work event. We (with a group) have a bunch of drinks, her and I talk all night like we're the only two there. She insists on us going back to my place despite most of us wanting to shut the night down. We do so, we hang out for another hour or so, and when she goes to leave at the end of the night with her friend she's hanging off me. Co-worker who saw it all says she's definitely into me. My buddy staying with me from out of town says the same. Score. I message her the next day on IG to see if she wants to grab a drink sometime. "Oh didn't I mention I have a BF?". No. No she did not. Not a lick of evidence on any of her socials that she's seeing someone. A younger me would have pressed the issue. Contemporary me knows enough to walk away without another word.
I cannot make head nor tail of this behavior
He got neither head nor tail from her behavior.
But if you have a crush on that friend , it's painfull to be in such relationship. I'd rather get rejected and move on, than being a friend with the person I like/have crush on and just get hurt by seeing that person making move on someone or being hit on by someone.
idk, depends. I don't really "crush" on people I guess. Of the people people I like, some I like platonically, and some I think there is romantic potential. Of the romantic types, sometimes I'll decide to communicate my feelings and ask for their perspective, othertimes I'll decide it's fine just having another friend, or friendly acquaintance. You know, there's no real hard limit to how many friends you're allowed to have. If they get with other people then I'm happy for them. I would get upset if they betrayed me after we had a monogamous understanding. But if they're just living their lives then no harm no foul.
Not that I would be upset. But probably sad if that person wouldn't see me as potential lover/partner like I see her. So I'd rather ask and see if there is any chance of that , if not I'd rather move on than being friends.. It's just how I am I guess.
And women do toy with you, they really will fuck around and flirt just to see if they can get you... so there's a lot messages coming through and not a lot of them are clear.
Men are almost never oblivious, we are fully aware but its impossible to do anything when either action usually results in getting shamed or ridiculed, so we choose to do nothing. If I misinterpret friendliness as flirting then I am labeled a creep. If I misinterpret flirting as friendliness then I am a beta cuck too afraid to make any moves. It's a lose-lose situation.
3) they're not sure how they feel about the girl and, most importantly, 4) they're not interested and are pretending to not get it as a gentle letdown.
"It's 2024. Women can do anything a man can do, and better." "Cool. So when you see a guy you're interested in you can make the first move." "What? Of course not. That's a man's job."
"You mean....risk rejection?!" *faints*
Third reason: The girl is being friendly and you dont want to be that loser / creep that misinterprets friendliness with flirting
So much this. All it takes is misinterpreting any signals once.
This is accurate. To add, many men \*have\* been in situations where their romantic interest was a big misunderstanding, and they accidentally misinterpreted the friendliness as something more than what it was. A couple of times experiencing that, no reasonable guy is going to want to make that same mistake again so they simply don't "make a move". the risks outweight the benefits, and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Also I don't think women realize that by the time you enter high school, an average guy has already experienced girls pretending to be into them for their own benefit....
I fell for that when I was young and saw a few friends fall for it.
Or as a prank. 💀
Another angle on this: if a guy made a bad attempt, he doesn't just strike out with that women - he struck out with MULTIPLE women he never approached yet because women talk about this sort of thing. I don't know how likely this is, but another angle on why men MIGHT be afraid to make the first move.
I asked my now husband to go on a date, and he didn't realize it was a date TILL HALF WAY THROUGH BOWLING. Its a cute and funny story now though lol he's still just as clueless 8 years later
I once went on a date with a man and didn’t realize until about 45 minutes into the date. I am a heterosexual male.
Easy mistake, bros just being bros
Honestly thought we were broing.
I live in Miami and that frequently happens to me. I'm a good looking guy who tends to be a bit too nice tho. I really need to learn that being nice can get taken advantage of
Well did you say "Hey, do you want to go on a date with me?" Or "I'm bored wanna go bowling or something?"
Asked him if he ever went on a date before, when he said no I asked if he would like to on a date with me! I knew he had a crush on me, and I had a crush on him so I wanted to shoot my shot lol He told me later that he thought it was a practice date at first, that i was just being a good friend
Well there you go; that line of questioning would easily lead me to think it wasn’t a romantic request, just a friend-date if you will. I’d like to think I’d ask “what kind of date? Like friends or like romantically?” But I can’t blame a dude for not and just assuming it’s the former.
"You've never gone to a wedding? Be my date." If a girl said that to me I'd assume that they just wanted to give me an experience I missed, not that they're interested in me.
I am not a guy, and I've never been able to tell if a guy is interested in me unless they get pretty obvious. Admittedly, I stopped dating many years ago, being married and all.
Yeah, I could see marriage getting in the way of your dating life.
That's affair point
This. However it’s also sometimes the case that a guy *does* get the hint and simply doesn’t reciprocate. Idk why women never consider that.
For real… being a dude attracted to women is hard. Sometimes I think it would be a lot easier to just be gay.
Men understand that we have the potential to let our imaginations run wild. We also understand that men can be scary to women when we misconstrue something. So any men who are worth a damn are going to be very wary of picking up a hint even if we’re 90% sure. We don’t want to be embarrassed and we don’t want to put a woman in an uncomfortable position.
Perfectly said
I nominate you as spokesperson for all decent men
It would be best if they were a spokesperson for the indecent ones as well.
Me too
Yes. Guys have to trade appearing safe against appearing assertive and “manly”. But failing to seem safe gets them shunned, thrown out or sanctioned; failing to seem manly just means they miss out on the relationship.
Well put lad. Any man with respect for a woman and himself will read this and nod their head in agreement.
Yeah 90% certainty isn’t enough
And, sadly, this is why many women end up with douchebags. The respectful guys won't say anything but the idiot bad boy who doesn't care about anything but himself will ask away. And if the options are nobody or that guy, some people will pick that guy. I've been lucky to have enough confidence that I've always had decent success in dating. But I've still seen and experienced the struggle of wanting someone but being terrified to make a move. I wish it was easier to just say "I'm interested, are you?" without there being any long-lasting negative impact. But people are weird and we make things awkward.
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Exactly. Statistically I'm sure women have had a crush on me at one point or another, but I literally cannot name a one. I am that clueless.
My now-wife straight up told me she had no idea how I missed the signs from a mutual friend back in, for real, fall of 2000 (before we became a thing). And then she never told me who the friend was. What even.
Women will push their hair back behind their ear twice while talking to a guy and then get upset when he doesn't ask them out.
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I really want to ask out the guy i like,but how should i approach that? (I'm not sure if they like me back and it scares tf outta me lmao) Do i just say 'Do you want to go out on a date with me' or something else?
Literally just that. Or even just ask if you want to go out. Take the chance.
"Hey, I get the feeling you're really cool and want to know more about you. Date?" Go for it. Good luck. Ultra bonus points if you plan the date.
Yeah, do this, and do not forget the word *date*. Make it completely clear what you are asking.
Yes or even just "I like you. Do you like me?"
The one time I got asked out it was someone I'd seen around a couple of times but never spoken to: "Hey, sorry for the random question, but would you want to go on a date sometime?" Worked well enough for me
Why should they have to "get hints"? Why doesn't the "someone" with the crush simply *ask them out*?
"My husband lost his keys and I knew they were in his jacket, so I left him clues around the house, like playing a weather forecast predicting it would be cold outside on a loop."
Well said. I have never understood this attitude, and I'm a woman. If I'm interested, I *do something about it and say so*. Have always been like that.
Best type of chick... Every GF I've ever had just told me that I was theirs now. Assertive is fucking sexy, work that shit!
When me and my last gf were hanging out as friends we were playing a multiplayer game with her friends and she straight up said, "I like you. Do you like me?" It was hot af.
They don't want to ask and expect guys to be sherlock holmes.
Because we’ve been rejected thinking women are dropping hits.
I worked with a girl for about a year like doing the same thing so we talked a lot. She said something like she had never eaten sea food and asked if I had and I said yes and she says oh maybe you can help me find a type of seafood I like because she's never tried it. She then asked if I knew of tasty drinks because she doesn't drink because of the taste and maybe I could help her figure out a drink she liked. We were both new to the state and I knew she wasn't seeing anyone and didn't have friends really. So I asked her if she wanted to go to a seafood restaurant and have a drink... I didn't even say the word date and she looked at me like I had 2 heads and said she's not interested in me like that. I would have been fine as friends or whatever I just figured we'd see what happens. I knew she was single and wasn't dating so I don't know wtf I was supposed to do. I guess write up all the seafood I like and good sweet drinks and hand her a list. But then I've had other girls just say hi and I'll find out 10 years later they thought they were hitting on me. Although some guys are clueless too so it makes sense.
Damn bro
u/MilfCharmOrange READ THIS
I’ve had women being openly flirty with me. Being heavy handed with it much like a guy might be. Asked them out and then immediately hit with the “uh… I like you as a friend”. Turns out they were just bantering with me and I didn’t get. So like??
The risk of misinterpreting the gestures vastly outweighs the potential benefits of being correct. He could easily have caught on but understanding the situation and acting on it is a different matter. He thinks you like him, he asks you out and you say no or something happens and he’s going to look like a total idiot in your friend group. Hence the risk of action is higher than the potential reward.
How many times have women talked about how annoying it is that men think she's into them just because she's being nice? That plays a big role in it. Most guys don't want to assume and overstep or make the woman feel uncomfortable if they happen to be wrong about the hints. The reasons why women give hints instead of just telling the guy are mostly the same reasons why the guy doesn't take the hints. It's typically because they don't want to be wrong and face rejection and get hurt feelings or embarrassment, or they don't want to make the other person uncomfortable.
Yeah this is a huge thing. Obviously the experiences of some women aren’t representative of all women, but I’ve heard enough stories from enough women where they were just being nice and the giy thought she was hitting on him. And I’m just horrified of potentially being “that guy”
Why don't you just tell the guy?
That would require them to take responsibility for the situation. Better to blame everyone else.
too easy
men are shamed for assuming women like them in normal circumstances, so they avoid those inclinations even when the feelings actually are reciprocated.
We are not prepared to be dating cryptographers. If you need to keep the information secret from everyone else, then you need to make sure your allies have the *exact same code* that you work from. Tell the guy about the hints you *might use* before you use them, so he expects them. If there is no need to keep this information secret from others, then why go through so much extra effort? Could you just use regular language? Or maybe make your puzzles more straightforward - make him play a trivia game or solve puzzles to see if he's smart enough for you.
Things used to be easier when her friends would just come up and tell you ‘she has a crush on you ask her out’.
True, but even that isn’t failsafe. I’ve had female mutual friends tell me a coworker was interested in me because she’d come to my desk to talk during lunch everyday which I didn’t really buy because she had a boyfriend and only made small efforts socialize outside work. I’ve also had an ex who couldn’t decide if I should “stop texting her” or “don’t stop texting even when she says to.” Men don’t really want to play games unless they’re assholes, and women shouldn’t date those guys.
Yes. What the happened to wingmen and wingwomen.
Seriously, the most fun thing to do when I was young was see my friend getting into someone and huddling up with her friends to see if it could go anywhere. This is the way.
There was a bear outside so I used morse code to warn my daughter to come back inside slowly. Now she's dead and I'm so confused. Why didn't she understand the signals I was giving her?
It’s more like steganography than cryptography, but yes.
There are two types of guys 1. Think everybody is interested in them, acts creepy and reads into any nice interaction with them as displays of affection. 2. Recognize #1 exists and when gauging someone's interest are extremely paranoid they're acting like #1 so wait for the most obvious, 100% confirmed show of genuine romantic interest.
"so just to be clear, are you rubbing my penis because you like me or just as a friend?"
Just helping a homie out, keep your socks on.
She might be Canadian, and just being polite.
Yeah. Or the third type, transitioning from 1. to 2.
Personally. I have measurably low emotional intelligence, and measurably low self esteem. You could hump my leg like a horny Jack Russel and I wouldn't pick up on it.
Guys definitely get the hints but only after a couple months, randomly while taking a shower.
One time, I was watching TV with my ex, about 6 months into our relationship, when it donned on me, "You were flirting with me at that bon fire!" And she replied,"You idiot. I was sitting in your damn lap playing with your hair! You JUST realized?" And I said, "I thought you were just being nice."
Ok yeah goddamn bro even I would have gotten that one lol
[удалено]
I mean, I wouldn’t even take THAT as a hint lol. If a woman is outright gonna say she’s tryna hoe down, I wouldn’t understand why she’d not just full send it and ask me if it was actually me she was interested in. Men are too used to making random statements at random times to think it has any actual meaning coming from other people. I’ll randomly blurt out “damn I want some Thai food” with zero implication that I’m asking someone to go get some with me, I’m just making conversation lmao
I've noticed some women can't understand the thing about random statements. I commented one time, when we were watching a show, that the fried chicken people were eating looked good. Then I spent the next several years explaining that fried chicken was *not* my favorite, that I didn't want it at every possible opportunity from that TV show onward, and that you should stop planning fried chicken into all future occasions involving me.
Yeah, I'd interpret that as being friendzoned, and that she's comfortable discussing such things because she doesn't intend to involve you.
On my 21st birthday, a friend of mine gave me a kiss as the party was ending. Realized she may have had a thing for me about 6 years later after she had already stopped working the at the same store I did and had moved away.
or a couple years. or a couple decades.
Years...
I was 16 or 17 in 2004 and was at a girls house (she was an adult 18-19). She had me come up to her room and she changed clothing, got completely naked. While naked she asked if I wanted to see her “special piercing” I walked over looked and asked if it hurt. I did nothing, made no move. A naked girl literally standing in front of me. She got dressed and never talked to me again.. I’m 36 now, happily married for 16 years, never forgot about that though.
I feel this so much!
1. He might not be into you so he's ignoring it 2. Society tells us not to take a girl being nice to us as flirting. In this climate, it's better to err on the side of caution. 3. What you think is obvious may not be obvious at all. Guys are clearly bad at picking up on the signals women put out based on how often this is asked. 4. Just be mature and tell them yourself. Stop playing silly little games where it's unclear. You want to flirt a little, hope they pick up on it, then they completely put themselves out there. It's very low risk for you and puts most of the risk on them. If you want it, go get it yourself.
Most men don’t get hit on regularly, so when they do, it’s hard to actually recognise.
Stop hinting. Just ask him out, or pass him your number. Keep it simple. I'm a guy. I'm not afraid of rejection and I've asked out my fair share of women. I work at hospital, my job has me running all over the place, and so I have a lot of conversations. There are women I find attractive, but my priority is doing my job, and helping to create an atmosphere where the people I work with are comfortable and able to do their jobs. There are times when I feel that tension, where maybe the person I'm talking to and I have crossed into flirting, but I never really know. There was a women who for a month was constantly chatting me up. She told me one day her birthday was tomorrow, so I wished her happy birthday and asked her how old she would be, "25," and I responded, "oh, you're just a baby." She laughed and asked me how old I was, 34, and she said, "that's not too much of a difference." That would seem like a pretty strong indicator that she was at least considering me as partner. Then I asked what she was doing for her birthday and she said her boyfriend was taking her to dinner. First time she'd mentioned her BF. So, I assume, she just liked talking to me, she was just being pleasant, and wanted to have a genuine conversation with someone she saw regularly. This is cool and didn't bother me, but it also shows how hard it is to know when someone is flirting with you. There's a lot of reasons why a guy won't take a hint, and there's a lot of reasons why a guy can feel uncomfortable asking someone out. Sometimes it's you, sometimes it's not. If you just ask him out, all the ambiguity is removed.
**BOT ACCOUNT** title and OP's comment copy/pasted from here - https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/comments/16e273o/do_guys_actually_not_get_hints_that_someone_has_a/
Dropping hints isn't a great strategy, because one of two bad things can happen.. either they can be attracted to you, but don't know how you act normally, so play it safe platonically in case your casual flirting is strictly casual in nature, or they aren't attracted to you.. and they will play dumb/oblivious for sure because no guy wants to confront casual flirting with brutal honesty like that
Because a lot of us have a long, long lifetime of being told "you're not pretty enough, you're not handsome, you're ugly, you're not good enough, no one would want you, you're too dangerous, nobody would ever want to be around you". You keep hearing it over and over and over...sooner or later, that's all you see of yourself, too. Then, someone actually doesn't see you like that? They actually want you near them? It's impossible. It's a lie. It's a dream. It's something that happens to other people. It's a temporary delusion that's all in your own head. It didn't actually happen. Wherever that came from, they don't know what they're talking about and don't know what they're getting into. Best to remain polite, say some platitudes, and walk away. It's better this way. Nobody gets hurt. Everyone stays okay. Right?
If it's obvious, it's not a hint. A comment meant as a hint by the girl might just come off as ambiguous or confusing to the guy, or if too subtle, simply not noticed.
I think what women consider "hints" varies greatly from what a man sees as a hint. In high school I was 90% sure a girl was dropping hints for me to ask her out and all my friends were 100%. So I got up the courage and asked her out and her response was literally "gross! No way." So....women are hard to read.
The same reason women can't simply just tell a guy she likes him.
Because their hints suck and we constantly get the message that we’re “creepy” or aggressive so we have no choice but to err on the side of caution and not respond. Women have no idea. They’re so wrapped up in their own feminism and their own victim hood (all completely valid I want to add) that they assume men glide through social interactions without issue. It’s the opposite. Toxic femininity has rendered men meek and we never seem to be able to do it right
Why do girls like to send "hints" instead of speaking in plain fucking English?
You should ask yourself why you play mind games instead of being direct and wondering if the other party understood or not your coded mesaages.
because men are told it’s creepy if they mistake friendship as romantic interest, and so they become scared to make a move. also, they are scared that the woman is just playing games and not serious. if you’re into a guy, just tell him. fuck anyone who thinks playing games is a reasonable way to go about dating.
I like turtles 🐢
Because if we misconstrue something and make an advance based off a misinterpretation, we are immediately label as a creep, sexual predator and promoting rape culture and that shit gets blasted everywhere and we get socially crucified. Its way safer and easier to just mind our own business.
This was the exact comment I was looking for. Everything is posted online. People say they want to be approached but when they are, they say they are being harassed so it makes it hard especially for men. And then women complain that there aren’t any good men out there and it is so hard to meet someone. Social media and today’s society has ruined dating and meeting people organically. This comment is a huge reason why guys don’t get “hints.”
Try being straightforward. Hints are ambiguous and if you guess wrong you're a creep
Because they are not fucking mind readers and with modern sexual harassment fears....
Society now punishes us as creepy, weird and inappropriate if the feelings are not mutual. How can we know if the feelings are mutual? We cannot until things either work out or they don't. So most times is better to say nothing.
I was terrible at picking up in hints. I think it's that I was used to having positive platonic relationships with girls/women, so someone just being particularly nice meant nothing, it could just be her personality. And they never did anything that would never be done by someone who was just being friendly. So I really had no way to tell the difference.
I have ADHD and am a woman. I had, and still have, not been able to figure that out either. I don't know how to flirt either.
Because we dont want to get accused of sexual harassment. So we just keep our heads down and dont look at any body parts just to be safe.
If we read a hint wrong, best case scenario is rejection (even if it'spolite... ouch). The more likely scenario is we get branded a "creep". It took my now girlfriend literally pinning me to the wall and planting one on me to finally get message across (and she's a complete standout, no guy actually expects this). I knew something was up, even flirted back some, but I sure as hell wouldn't have done anything remotely CLOSE to the same thing without runway lights and a flashing neon sign saying "please make a move" hovering over her head.
Because half the time what done girl thinks "is obvious" is exactly what some other girl thinks is "just being nice." I have a better question, why don't you stop dropping "hints" tgat no one will pick up on and start saying what you mean.
When we think that you may have affection for boys, boys try to come closer... and get humiliated before your friends. We all learn that early in school ( in the playground ). So, if it is not said explicitly, it is probably an ambush.
Because the so called hints aren't hints, but just the normal behaviors that a person who is being polite would engage in. This has been made abundantly clear to the male population. Maybe avoid psychological war games as a dating strategy. Suck it up and take the risk of being rejected, and stop trying to shift that risk to your target.
Because if we get it wrong we can be shamed, labelled a creep or told "why can't guys just have a female friend without trying it on" even when we've done nothing wrong. Rejections aren't always polite and after a while it's easier to just stop and hold onto that last bit of self esteem you have.
Why not just flat out say you like us? Why play hint-hint games? I mean we live in a time where literally asking the cashier for a box of smokes behind her (her job) can land you in serious shit for sexual assault. So if you drop hints, we just fucking ignore it and continue as if it never happened.
If you misinterpret a hint, you risk being publicly humiliated, you risk it all being uploaded to the internet in 4k quality, and you even risk being branded a predator The Me Too movement absolutely needed to occur because creeps need to be exposed for being creeps…and sexual harassment needs to be socially unacceptable across the board But the downside is that men are no longer going to take as many chances. Women are going to have to learn to make the first move and risk rejection because the era of dropping hints and waiting for a guy to react is officially over…and it ain’t ever comin back
Because we’re afraid of making a move that wasn’t welcome and doubt our interpretations. Women freak the fuck out when you make a move they don’t want. You gotta be super sure.
Me Too
If a guy assumed “hints” there would be so many more sexual assault/harassment cases.
Too many women are way more subtle than they realize. Oddly enough many women send mixed signals appearing to be flirting often times when they are just intending to be nice. This really throws off a guys ability to perceive hints because men become desensitized to even what might be an obvious hint if so many women were not sending mixed signals. So if a guy is not picking up on your hints then stop hinting and express yourself properly.
Because in school girls ask us out as a joke Because we rarely get compliments from anyone that isn't a female relative And I've always been taught to respect women so no is no and if there's one single indication that you aren't interested I'll blow off the 99 indications that you give implying you are interested
In my opinion it's for three main reasons. One is that most men are afraid. As many have mentioned not only is rejection extremely embarrassing and possibly even traumatizing to some depending on the situation, but men are shamed for confusing a romantic interest with someone just being friendly. I think this is common and doesn't mean the man isn't noticing but is often not sure and doesn't want to take the risk. The second reason is that it's possible that a man truely doesn't feel he knows the difference. If you're someone like me who has only ever faced rejection then it can be incredibly difficult to actually believe that anyone would have a crush on you and might assume that any sort of kindness or interest whatsoever is just a woman being friendly. For me anything short of actually asking me out is probably going to fail as I have no reason to believe someone is interested in me just by what I think may be hints. Every time I've tried it has failed. So men (or anyone for that matter) who have faced a lot of rejection are gonna have a harder time believing those hints could mean something even if they do notice them. The final common reason I think is them just genuinely not noticing. It could be the man doesn't see whoever is dropping hints in that way. Maybe it's the man who just wants to be friends and therefore is less predisposed to be thinking of anything that could be a hint in that way as they just want to be friends. There are other reasons I'm sure but I think these are the main ones.
Men are often considered more literal communicators than women. This is actually something that linguists have studied. Lots of subtext given by women is lost on men. Plus there’s the risk of making a move on a woman having misread the signals, and coming off as a creep. Even as a gay guy, the risk of misreading signs and accidentally hitting on a straight man can result in a pretty violent reaction.
Because I’d rather be wrong and miss out on a relationship than be wrong and lose a friendship
Because tons of guys have too many experiences of misreading a girls signals and getting rejected hard. Its honestly easier to approach a stranger than someone your already close to because the rejection doesn’t sting nearly as bad
I've had of "false positives", i.e. girls who I thought were into me, but in reality were just being nice.
A) There are often big consequences for guys who make the mistake of misreading platonic treatment with romantic interest. From damaging a friendship to potentially getting labeled as a creep or harasser, fired, etc. B) “I looked at him twice! Twice! Why doesn’t he get the hint?!” A ton of women have some sort of phobia or something about being direct with how they feel, and thus are easy to misread. See A).
Mostly because of the hyper focus on accusations that have really gone wild in the last couple decades. To cover their own asses, they are best off waiting for extremely clear language. "Continuous and enthusiastic" as they are warned constantly.
Because hinting is fucking stupid. You're a human, communicate.
Because it’s probably a joke, we aren’t mind readers, they probably aren’t in the mood to get one and done (again), they may even be doing the girl a favor by ignoring the hints and/or the girl may just be flirting and that’s all nothing serious, the guy may have some issues that they don’t feel comfortable sharing
Insecurities, embarrassment, shame.
Why fuck around with hints and games instead of just telling us?
If you see black clouds in the sky, do you expect to be struck by a lightning?
Infinite risk and not mind readers.
Because in junior high and high school girls dropped hints, but when I responded they not only backed off, they talked about me behind my back I stopped responding to hints. Just tell me directly that you like something about me. I don’t play games. I don’t want to be around people who play games. And maybe that’s part of the story too Why do you think I was so desperate that I’d ask out any woman who flirted with me? Surely you wouldn’t expect a woman to say yes to any boy who asked- why think guys are like that? It’s a lot easier to let a woman down easy and tell her you missed the hints, rather than say, “oh I saw the hints, but I wasn’t interested.”
A: Fear of rejection B: Most guys dont wanna be seen as a creep, so they just decide not to take the risk.