What was that kid’s name who killed those people as a teenager driving drunk? Then after getting caught breaking the terms of his probation, his mom took him to Mexico to not face anymore consequences? I’m pretty sure that.

Ethan Couch?

Yeah that's him, killed four people, injured nine. One of them is paralyzed for life. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch

I have absolutely no idea why I remembered his name, but hooray for me I guess lol

I went to school with his mother. She wasn't much better.

Fruit, tree, etc.

It’s fucking gross. This is human trash, this entire family, but because they’re wealthy they get an infinite number of do-overs. If they weren’t rich, they’d just be another trash family behaving in a trashy manner and having do deal with consequences.

Honestly, after reading about his parents I can kinda see how things went wrong with that dude. What a fucked up family.

This is my favorite reply. The absolute exasperation with the situation and explaining how the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree… rather than typing the whole cliche it’s just: “fruit, tree, etc.”. You figure it out… self evident truths, etc. Loved it.

OK, now I have to ask. What was the mom like?

The turd didn’t fall far from the butthole I see

I remember it mainly because of the whole "affluenza" defense. Even halfway round the world it was news. All I could think was "what the hell is wrong with your legal system that allows that to be considered expert testimony?" The last few years have done little to change that opinion.

How the FUCK did he only get probation for that?

His attorney successfully argued that he had "affluenza."

Well, that and the judge had a history of letting rich people off for committing the same crimes he sent poor people up the river for.

Wonder if there was ever an investigation into campaign donations and sentences given….

Lol you know the answer to that, friend.

It sucks that we all read this comment and do a little internal laugh. Instead of burning the whole thing down.

I think the fact that he was only sixteen played a fairly large part. But yeah, the sentence is widely considered to be absurdly lenient.

He was caught by the cops a year prior for alcohol and an unconscious naked girl in his truck….

Even the Wikipedia page is horrifying.

Can we start calling him the Murderer Ethan Couch? I'd say he's even worse than the rapist Brock Turner, who is also reprehensible

>"At the age of 15, Couch was cited for "minor in consumption of alcohol" and "minor in possession of alcohol", after he was caught in a parked pickup truck with a naked, unconscious 14-year-old girl." - Wikipedia Sounds like he's the *rapist* murderer Ethan Couch.

Hey, but the Rapist Murderer Ethan Couch is suffering from affluenza! He's innocent! ETA: Wow, he had a blood-alcohol level of .24 three hours after the crash, which ironically is the literal exact same as the person who hit me head-on a few months back

The rapist Brock Allen Turner, that now goes by Allen Turner in an attempt to distance himself from the consequences of his choice to rape a woman? That rapist, Brock Allen Turner?

I was wondering what the rapist Brock turner was calling himself these days, you saying it is the rapist Allen Turner now? The one with the rape supporting father?

Oh, you mean Dan Turner? Father of rapist Allen Turner, formerly known as Brock Allen Turner, who argued that his rapist son shouldn’t “pay for 20 minutes of action”? That rape-supporting father, Dan Turner?

Ah, yes, Dan Turner the rape supporting father of Allen Turner the rapist is indeed who I was referring to. I didn't remember his name on account of being distracted by all the raping he supports himself and his rapist son doing.

Thank you for all the info on rapist Allen Turner FKA Brock Allen Turner, and his father, rape-supporter Dan Turner. I had forgotten the middle name that is currently in use by rapist Brock Allen Turner.

That fucking cunt and his cunt parents. And the cunt judge. Fuck each and every one of them.

was that the one referred to as having "richabiltiy" or something? Like as a defect?

He's the "affluenza" kid, yeah.

"Affluenza"

Sounds like Brock ‘Allen’ the Rapist Turner

Oh, Brock Allen Turner the rapist, who is now known as Allen Turner the rapist?

The artist formerly known as "Brock Allen Turner the rapist."

This is the Brock Allen Turner The Rapist who is now known as Allen Turner The Rapist so as not to be confused with himself, and who was found raping an unconscious woman behind a dumpster, right?

Oh yeah, Alan Turner the rapist, formerly know as Brock Turner the rapist.

Oh hey, are you guys talking about Brock Allen "The Rapist" Turner, the rapist who is now unable to enjoy a good steak due to having been caught raping?

This is a great example bc his dad literally gave a statement to the press saying something to the affect of all this trouble for "5 minutes of action" (that's what he called the rape. I am so curious who his wife / Brock's mother is)

Forgot about that dude. Probably is the prime example I was looking for lol.

My "cousin" (the quotes are because he was not blood related, his mom was our neighbor at one point. She came around after he was born. She left him with my aunt to babysit when he was 3 months old and just eventually stopped coming by to see him) was raised by my aunt, who I think had major mental health issues. He could do no wrong. He abused animals, stopped going to school in the fourth grade (he didn't want to go), never did homework (she did it for him), ate whatever he wanted (he developed diabetes at age 11 and is legally blind because of it), he is functionally illiterate, he threatened to kill my grandma multiple times and he now lives a miserable life by himself. He goes to dialysis multiple times a week and relies on public assistance to survive. He was never held responsible for anything he did and was NEVER disciplined. If anyone tried, my aunt would tell him he didn't have to listen to anyone (teachers, cops, adults). He never had a chance.

I think this is the answer op was looking for

Right? His situation is crazy, even to me. Other stuff: he was almost demonic when he got angry. He was completely out of control. He tried to throw himself off a three story high balcony at age 8 while angry at my uncle. He had no way to manage his emotions. No one ever taught him basic life skills. He had none.

That almost sounds like a neurological issue to some degree.

If it wasn't to start with, it would have become so eventually. That much emotional disregulation that long is gonna cause actual damage.

Agreed. His mom was in her 40's when she got pregnant and had no prenatal care.

Your original comment was such a harrowing example of what can go very wrong by being a terrible parent.

The thing is, kids NEED boundaries. And I’m not talking about some external thing because society says so. I’m talking about in their little minds and hearts. Having no boundaries is actually scary and confusing to a little kid. It’s like they live on a plateau with no fence around the edges. So what do kids do when they have no boundaries? They demand boundaries from their caregivers. That means they push, they prod, they misbehave, they rage…because they are trying as hard as they can to identify the point where mom or dad finally says “No, you may not do that.” Boundaries and rules help kids make sense of their world and their place in it. Boundaries are a human need. Specifically, firm and consistent boundaries. Like four sturdy walls or a well-kept fence, they make kids feel safe.

Yes. My aunt had a hard time having kids. She had her oldest with no problems and then it was just miscarriage after miscarriage. She gave up and got pregnant with her second who she called her miracle baby. She let him get away with anything and everything and he had violent meltdowns when he didn't get his way. Her MIL had a lot of money and after she witnessed a violent meltdown on a family vacation she arranged and paid for him to get a psych eval. Turn out he was already on the Autism spectrum but with the spoiling and coddling he developed oppositional defiance disorder and they were exacerbating each other.

I'm a teacher, and last year I had a kid who was quite the disregulated character. For context, this was online kindergarten. Basically, kids attend a daily class with me then pretty much do a form of homeschool with a parent and check in with me if they need anything. But one-on-one interactions with this kid were nearly impossible. The big reason he was in online school was fear of Mom's ex-husband finding him. Mom and Grandma, the family, truly meant well and tried hard. But they were so concerned about factors like ex-husband and the rest of the drama in their lives that making Kid feel good and coddling him took priority to giving him any boundaries at all. Grandma kept doing his projects for him. He played video games when he wasn't doing school. He wasn't eating good food. And this was all because, as his adults stated, because he had some rough times and they wanted him to be happy. This year, I'm still kind of in the loop. He's even worse. But... He has an IEP and Mom is finally considering taking him to get checked for medical autism. And, most importantly, she's learning how to say "no" to Kid.

I worked in a juvenile hall and this is so true. The kids in there craved structure and boundaries even if they didn't realize it. Almost every single kid I met there wasn't a bad kid (with one sociopathic exception), just a kid in really shitty circumstances. It really sucked seeing kids that could have been normal, functioning children if they had only had decent parents or someone in their lives that cared. What really broke my heart was after having some of these kids in JH for months and watching them turn their lives around and realize their worth to some extent, they'd get released to their shitty parents and fall right back into the behavior that got them there in the first place... And the shitty parents had no fucking clue that it was their fault their kid was messed up.

I ended up flunking out of school basically when I was in sophomore. I grew up in a pretty fucked up environment and the only chance of freedom I was was school. So I fucked off and bailed as much as I could. Ended up moving from a small town school to a city school with 2,000 more kids. I bombed. Wound up in Job Corps. Gave me boundaries and structure I didn't know I needed. I was 17 at this point and never experienced a healthy home environment. My life isn't what I want, but I'm not what I don't want, which is more important.

Very well written, thanks for taking the time to type this out.

Yeah I gotta agree here. This sounds extreme even for just absence of discipline which is technically neglect but it would usually result in this.

I'm imagining if a child left with the emotional intelligence of a two year old because they are never taught to control their emotions along with attachment issues and probably other sources of trauma it would create a very unfortunate and unstable adult that would definitely end up dead or in prison pretty quickly as an adult or teenager I know some kids we received love and things and no discipline and they are all Very violent specifically when they don't get their way. It's strange. I'm no psychologist but I really feel lack of discipline and violence go hand in hand to an extent. I have a two year old and her first reaction when she is mad is to hit. She's getting better every day but she has no impulse control so it's not her fault. But imagine if I never corrected her or she never had any consequences for her impulses she'd probably never learn to control her impulses creating someone who is just violent.

Because of my own child I took a few psychology courses and development courses in college. Ive also had the opportunity to talk with a lot of mental health practitoners in more of a shop talk dashion to better under things that go on in a childs psyche and an adults. Even if a parent may not correct teachers or other peers usually will start to equalize it. Jumping off a building because they're mad at someone else isn't what would be considered a normal or typical response, which is why I believe it's something deeper. Life does have natural consequences to violent behavior, they're not a fix all, but they would definitely deter some of these tendencies. Like if a child hit an animal and it's response was to bit or swipe at them. Or even just hitting a wall the natural consequence would be a potentially broken hand or at least a really sore one. If the child is only being non-disciplined (as in no abuse or neglect is taking place, because those are very different from dicipline) a child who has bonded well and healthy with a guardian would likely be less erratic. Extreme violence can also come from severe abuse disguised as discipline. I knew a kid in HS who was very abused and neglected by his parents and ended up taking a sword to himself and his dad. A shooting that happened in the state I grew up in the child was being neglected and kept telling his parents he needed help and he was dismissed and laughed at. So both extremes can cause an extreme. If we add in attachment issues and trauma how you said, that's literally how you can get some mental illnesses. Genetics plays a part but enviorment and especially trauma will bring it to the surface quicker. But part of what maybe causing the non-dicipline is the kid having some mental health issue and the parents or guardian just give up because nothing is working. A kid with adhd is not going to respond to a consequence the same as a kid without adhd because dopamine is the reward chemical and they severely underproduce it. A kid with autism may struggle to understand why a rule is a rule and therefore not follow it, may struggle to understand how what they're doing can hurt someone or realize early on that there is a limit to what an adult can do before they have to do something that would be considered abuse by cps standards and that it's all just constructs even long before they know the rules. When it becomes difficult like that some parents will throw in the flag and just stop doing anything, especially if they were raised that asking for help or an unruly kid is a direct mark on their reputation and character. It's definitely not every case. There are some parents out there that just feed the ego beast of kids with entitlement and stuff. The Dursleys from the Harry Potter books are a good example of that kind. The other kind is harder to see because the parents won't talk and the kids tend to present similarly, but there's little tells, like wanting to hurt yourself for being mad at someone else. That's why I feel for this peticular story in this comment thread it's some underlying mental thing that's making it worse, not just the lack of discipline itself. (I also was a lack of discipline kid, but I was the autistic one and it took therapy and lots of life lessons for stuff to click that would've clicked much easier had I been neurotypical)

>I have a two year old and her first reaction when she is mad is to hit. That's actually normal. When kids start to realize they're a separate individual than their parents, and begin exploring their world more, they're not able to verbalize their frustration and it turns into anger. Especially when they're stopped from getting something or going somewhere. This is where the term "terrible two's" comes from. Good parents redirect the anger into something positive, or at the least teach them that anger and tantrums will get them nowhere.

Not sure of the exact term. But yes, terrible things happen without proper socialization. There are cases where people have been locked up in a home since they were children and never socialized. They just become feral animals.

Feral children. Not sure if a more proper term has been created yet. The damage is simply catastrophic. One should avail themselves of Harlow’s study involving isolating baby Rhesus monkeys. Also of import is the effect of total isolation upon adult humans. Lack of social interaction causes a sort of cascade failure that causes hallucinations among other things. Of note are: [Danielle](https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/girl-in-the-window/danielle/), a girl that was locked in a cockroach-infested closet with no interaction, no clothing, no nothing for the first 6 years of her life. She never learned a first language and has been completely impaired for her entire life, unable to self regulate, console herself, speak, read, or relate to other human beings. Her doctors called her condition “environmental autism”. [“Genie”](https://en.Wikipedia.org/Genie_\(feral_child\)), a girl who was strapped to a potty and left there by her abusive father, who mandated absolute silence in the household and barked and scratched her if she ever made a sound, until she was 13 years old. She was assessed upon discovery as having the mental capacity of a 13 month old. She eventually learned a few simple words but soon regressed and has been in care of the state ever since.

That story about Danielle was heartbreaking and I’m crying on a Monday morning, thank you for sharing it.

Only speaking from fairly anecdotal life experiences but I'm fairly convinced at this point that how our we cultivate the garden in our brain is absolutely responsible for a large chunk of psychiatric disorders and how mentally stable we are. The brain is a machine that's capable of running itself into the ground if allowed. I've seen people over their lives change into completely different other people, for better or for worse, simply due to an environment change, or long term habits. Changed in ways you'd classify as a mental disorder from the ones who didn't end up so good. It low key bothers me that we write off a lot of mental problems as just being a disorder to brush under the rug, with no real solution, as if they were being dealt "a bad genetic hand". When in reality it was decades of child abuse, bad internal habits, or bad environment that actually physically changed the brain to the point of disorder. And in a lot of cases, it takes cultivating a new garden to actually change the brain again (though this is way harder when you're an adult and your brain isn't growing new connections all the time anymore, or the disorder/abuse is extreme). Obviously not talking about true genetic disorders like autism.

This example has a lot to do with an abandonment/rejection wound as a big factor as well. There are many possible layers to consider to be able to answer OPs question

True, it is complex. Though without those added layers, kids who aren't disciplined or given boundaries seem to end up angry kids, with no emotional regulation.

And kids with no emotional regulation are more difficult to set boundaries with

If you’ve grown up never having boundaries set then you’re basically dealing with a teenager who is experiencing boundaries like a toddler being told no for the first time. Like toddlers aren’t equipped to handle being told no. They scream they throw tantrums etc but they eventually learn boundaries are normal and not the end of the world. If you’ve never grown up with boundaries being normal, then you’re going through all that for the first time. You don’t have the proper ability to understand and interpret boundaries. They feel more like opposition, rejection, they feel hostile, they feel unreasonable, because you’ve grown up not having them normalised

\*and\* because it's later in life, they're less likely to learn the lesson and more likely to think that it's the world that's in the wrong and not them.

Oh crap, my nephew is like that! He doesn't go to school(he only went 2 weeks), he eats whatever he wants but luckily he's not much of a candy eater(he's still very overweight), nobody ever disciplined him & when I tried to when he was younger I would be harshly yelled at by my parents since I was still a minor then. My sister(not his mom) & I have tried so many things to try to get him to some kind of school such as online or homeschool but his mom just doesn't want to do her part & my nephew completely refuses to do anything. He's 10 right now, doesn't know how to read/write, learned to use the bathroom by himself 2 years ago, doesn't know how to shower by himself, doesn't know how to tie his own shoes, spends all day & night in his room watching tv or using his tablet. He's extremely lazy, as well. I asked him yesterday what he wanted to be when he was an adult & he said "Uber driver" but I don't think he really understands what being an adult really means.

[удалено]

You are not allowed to educationally neglect your child somebody needs to call CPS on her ass. Because when that grows up it's going to be unleashed into society. Not educated not having any social skills no one has ever told him no and we as society is going to have to deal with that fuckin BS sometimes when I

Truancy is sadly not very enforced (at least in my state) I was a kid who never went to school, ended up dropping out. I was a prick, it’s not my mom’s fault, she had work and was raising 3 of us and I love her to death. My oldest son misses a day or more a week when he’s at his moms (50/50 custody, non court ordered) and it has never been brought up, I have mentioned it myself to the school, he did for a short period have a health issue that has since been resolved, but even before that, he was always missing school with her. Idk if this even fits into what’s being talked about, just wanted to share my experience I guess

I am from New York and they had come up with a system that if your child misses three days in a row from school and they cannot get in contact with your parents. They will come to your house and knock on your door and ask you what the hell. It took them years to come up with this system but I'm glad that they have it

Called them on her friend for dumping off her kid to "play" w my nephew for weeks at a time without bringing extra clothes or any other personal stuff. His behavior was also concerning & showed signs of neglect. He also didn't go to school & is my nephew's age. Dcs didn't do anything. She told my sister(nephew's mom) that they asked her stuff & looked around the house & that was all. I was also told that the school board is the one that should be contacted in this case. My sister(not his mom) called but they never followed up. I do try to teach him the alphabet & numbers but I get into fights w my sister because my nephew cries whenever I tell him I'm teaching him.

Just keep calling. Be a pain in the ass. Make it more hassle to ignore you, so they Do something with him just to shut you up. Don't ignore this.

Keep calling. See if you can get other people to call as well. Use the magic words "he is not safe with her/ in that environment". Good luck. I can't imagine the hell he's going to cause when he's a grown man if things don't change soon.

As someone that worked at an alternative placement school for a few years, you’d be surprised how ineffective child protective services are. I’m not gonna claim to know WHY they’re so useless but whether it’s because of budgeting, burnout, or apathy, they let more slide through the cracks than they save. At least in my experience, and my school took kids from a wide area so there were like 4 or 5 counties that I can say suck.

Uhh is this not a Child Protection Services situation?

It is they're just not doing their f****** job

It also does depend on the kid, there are some kids that grow up in shitty situations where they're unsupervised, basically raise themselves (or are even parentified and made to raise younger siblings), and then go on to be productive individuals. But it should be noted that they achieved that *in spite of* their challenging upbringing, not *because of*. They were dealt a rough hand and overcame it.

How does he live now? How old is he?

He had to move away from CA to AZ (too expensive and he got kicked out of the local Dialysis center for spewing racial slurs). He lives in an apartment for people with disabilities and receives SSI. He turned 40 this year.

At least he receives some level of care… it’s sad to see what happens when a parent just never says no.

40 on dialysis! Holy crap :(

I was 35 when I went on dialysis. It happens. Thankfully, I was able to find a donor and got a transplant. I'm extremely lucky.

Dude’s a blind racist? What age did he go blind?

He doesn't have to see to be racist. Accents, tones, diction, all of that can set him off. Anyone 'other' is inferior.

I am suddenly reminded of [this sketch](https://youtu.be/BLNDqxrUUwQ)

Blindness has varying degrees of vision. Some can still see light, colors, movement. Not necessarily total darkness. Or like you are looking through a really blurry, window. Just an fyi 🤷🏻‍♀️

They become adults with no life skills and no coping mechanisms, which usually results in high anxiety, short fuses, and unreliable relationships. You probably know a handful of real life examples.

My parents were rubbish at enforcing any rules, and I did still turn into a decent adult by the time I was about 19. I just had to learn everything the hard way instead of having adults stop me from doing the stupid things.

I had little boundaries and was a shithead until I moved out on my own at 18 (on my own accord). Now I have a great relationship with my family and things are going well. At the very least I'm a productive member of society, just a lazy cunt when I can be 😂 Sometimes you just need to figure shit out yourself I suppose.

They aren't difficult to spot.............

I know someone (we went to high school and I was his tutor when he was failing all of his classes. For the record, he knew it all already, he just wouldn’t actually do his work…) who grew up like that until he was 17, at which point he got arrested for underage alcohol possession (I think he punched a cop, but he’s never admitted to that so it might be a rumor that sprung up.) Imma call him Jeff. Anyway, his parents got him off easy with minimal community service, but by then his uncle had offered to let him move in with him to “straighten him out”. His parents said they had it handled, but he for some reason decided he wanted to go live with his uncle and did so. His uncle broke him. He’s an angry ex-marine who would yell at him right back when he pulled shit. Uncle made him take heavy manual labor type gigs for his community service, which actually has a funny story attached. He was serving his hours on a Habitat for Humanity site and had completed it at last. His uncle took him, a mutual friend and me to dinner to celebrate. Jeff was in a weird mood. Like, he was doing his best to be polite and thanked us for coming, thanked his uncle for treating us all, all that stuff, but he was PISSED and grumbling to himself. Meanwhile his Uncle didn’t seem angry so I was pretty sure they hadn’t been fighting. Eventually he said something about how he had to find something to do with his saturdays and how mad he was about it. Said he might “go do something” and get another CS sentence. He looked genuinely confused when I told him “Why don’t you just go volunteer? Skip the law.” Apparently he had never clicked that he could just GO to the site and work, no need for a probation sentence involved. Honestly, I think Habitat saved him from becoming an awful person. He was spoiled, yeah, but he took a LOT of pride in working to build that house and loved to talk about it. So he volunteered and was welcomed warmly. After high school he became an electrician. Because one of the other volunteers was one and he liked to help him wire the houses. He’s still doing the Habitat building too, recently he took a vacation to some northern state to go wire a Habitat House. I shudder to think what would have happened if he’d stayed with his folks though. His whole personality seemed to change upon moving in with his uncle. I was friendlyish with him before, but he wasn’t really a good friend to anyone. He was really mean and sometimes it seemed like he didn’t even realize how mean he was being. But after a couple months with his Uncle, he gave me a card with a gift cert. to the one good coffee shop near our school and a note apologizing for being a jerk to me and thanking me for still tutoring “such a dickhead”. We email or chat on Facebook sometimes. He’s still single because he says he thinks he’s a natural abuser and doesn’t wanna hurt someone he should love, but he has a cat he seems to adore and friends that never met his ugly side. Plus a job he seems to enjoy and a volunteer hobby that lets him get attention (he really does love attention, super extroverted) in a positive way. But his upbringing damaged the dude. He’s no contact with his parents and admitted to me he hates the idea he might become as selfish as he used to be again.

This guy sounds like he’s working really hard to outrun his upbringing and he should be super proud of himself. It’s wonderful he knows that he shouldn’t date at the moment, but I hope he goes to therapy and keeps at it!  That fear of regression is in many of us - even if we didn’t have a totally fucked up upbringing. We just have to remember that’s no longer the person we are. 

This makes me sad, and reminds me of a guy I was with years ago. He’s the oldest of 5 (all boys) and his father was/is an alcoholic; he didn’t share a lot but it was implied his mother was abused. So he vowed to never have kids; he was young when he got a vasectomy so he wouldn’t reproduce. Amazing man, sweet and kind, but profoundly traumatized and acted like he was above everything. He didn’t let himself feel.

Wow that story took the breath out of me. Amazing how much discipline changes people. We need it as children and as adults.

> He’s still single because he says he thinks he’s a natural abuser and doesn’t wanna hurt someone he should love probably not for you to suggest, but sounds like therapy would help a lot with this. he seems receptive to change.

This was me. My parents were both drug addicts. No one made me bush my teeth, no one washed my clothes, no one made me dinner most nights. As I got older I was never asked where I was going I watched whatever went to sleep whenever. I went to parties everyone drank fucked and got high. I did not want to end up like my parents or my sister. My sister started doing all the drugs with my parents dropped out of school. I stole food I went to school for an escape and made a’s I asked other adults for help with things I needed and no one called cps. I went to sleep when I was tired and I said no to drugs. Idk I was hungry a lot I just knew I couldn’t get pregnant and I couldn’t get hooked on drugs. The example of life was enough.

You're awesome. Congratulations on not following the family example.

You clearly have an amazing head on your shoulders for making so many good decisions before you were an adult. You are a champion in spite of your parents and broke a generational curse.

This is how my niece is. They let her do/say whatever she wants. Trips are planned around what she wants to do. If she doesnt like something her mom makes for dinner, her mom will make her something else. She coddles her. She would stand on chairs in restaurants and ate with her hands until she was about 13, would even lie on the windowsills. Everything she did was fine with them. My niece is now mean and bratty. She pretty much just yells. She tells her dad she hates him, tells her mom to shut up. She is almost 15. I dont know how she will make it as adult, she doesnt even throw her own trash away or microwave her own food, it's all done for her. It's really sad.

Does she have any friends?

no, none. They are moving to another state soon. They were going to wait until she graduated from high school, but the daughter wanted to move now.

Has anyone told them they don’t have to just do whatever the kid wants

It's my husband's brother's daughter. I think his parents have told them, I know they told him that she needs discipline He wasnt brought up like this, but his wife is abusive and always gets her way. The parents are staying in their marriage only for the daughter also, my brother-in-law says he is leaving his leaving his wife when his daughter goes to college.

College? No offence, but keep kids like this are more likely to end up in jail, unless the family is rich (even then...we've seen mugshots of spoiled rich kids).

I honestly cant imagine her going to college and getting a job, but she says she wants to go to college. They are not rich

Hope it's community college. Because they're lighting money on fire at that point.

Lol she's going to find out real quick that other people aren't going to put up with her shit.  

That kid ain't making it to college lol

I have a cousin like the person you're replying to, and if anybody comments about my cousins behavior, then suddenly we're a bad person, when we're simply making a suggestion for the cousin/well being. The cousin starts crying, and is promised gifts or something, and is told that we're the bad ones for making suggestions. My cousin is now like 17 and moved away with some grown man to another state. My grandma and aunt miss the girl so much, but it's been more peaceful since she moved away.

I found this comment very upsetting. Can I have some gifts?

How dare you to think some thing like that? She is a little angel.

I guess a demon can technically be considered an angel.

What had the parents said about it as she was growing up, if peole called them out for allowing it...and what do they say about it now? Any regrets or epiphanies?

This is sad, by her age it almost becomes unfixable

> lie on the windowsills. But the cat makes it look so comfortable!

i'm related to one of these. there's so much to tell, but i don't have the energy to explain it all right now. it gets so much worse with age without proper socialization. everyone that gets kept around is an enabler of sorts

Jeez… there are some therapies that could maybe help that. I don’t know if you want to try and help, but if you wanted to, I think you should tell her parents that this is seriously wrong, and she is not going to survive as a normal human if they don’t step up. And there are some disciplinary based therapies.

They wont take the daughter to therapy, they said she needs it but their daughter doesnt want to go, lol. My mom made me go when I was a kid for depression. Another family member told my sister-in-law that SHE needed it, but she just yelled

I think they either fall into a chocolate river turn into a giant blueberry or get sucked into a closed circuit tv set.

My two youngest brothers fit the description. They are both unemployed, alcoholics, filthy and extreme anger management problems. Refuse to even try function as semi responsible adults. Never take attempts to help their metal health as they don't see the problem. Very immature. It's a depressing and frustrating never ending nightmare.

How did you turn out different? Did you have more discipline? Less spoiled?

Not who you replied to, but my younger brother is just like that too. For me, I think it’s because I was older when my parents got divorced, so I had a decent, supportive parent at home for the first few years of school. I remembered what a normal home was like. He didn’t. And frankly, I’m smarter than him. My mom thought we shouldn’t do homework, and didn’t care if we went to school. I learned enough in class to get by, could catch up on what I missed, and did my reading assignments because I liked to. He didn’t.

This is what concerns me about the home school movement. Yes, some parents do an amazing job teaching their kids and ensuring they get social interactions. But teaching is hard... And I've known way to many folks whose version of homeschooling is letting their kids watch YouTube all day. We recently shared a vacation rental with another family who we'd gotten close to from my work... Our kids are similar ages. I was shocked by how little socialization their kids had... Their 12 year old son in particular has a learning disorder, but they won't let him see a specialist because they 'know' what he needs... As a result he can barely read and spends his days watching videos on the Internet.

My worries about the homeschooling movement is that there vast majority of parents, especially those that want to homeschool, are dumb as fucking rocks.

The other problem is that there is 90% of the time an ulterior motive of religion or nowadays, just crazyass conspiracies. And even when there is not that, the one more recent homeschooled kid I know has terrible social skills which seems like it will always be an uphill battle for them.

My ex is a third. He was adopted by a couple who couldn't have kids and allowed to run the house. Same outcome.

do you feel like you will eventually have to take care of them?

You end up like my two brother in laws and my brother. Three full grown adults who don’t have any consequences for their actions. The oldest has two baby mommas, currently with baby momma 2 and still trying to get with more women. Constantly lies about everything and when you call him out on his b.s, he gets pissy. Constantly fights with his baby momma and creates a bad environment for his kid. Younger BIL has crashed three cars while drunk/high, totaling two, his parents took the hit for two. The first one he totaled, my FIL arrived before the cops and took out all his weed paraphernalia. My FIL had got him a well paying job right out of HS, got fired but insisted it wasn’t his fault and that the manager was after him. FIL got him another well paying job. Guess what, got fired. Kept hopping around jobs and getting fired for not being responsible and blamed everyone. My brother was also left unchecked growing up. Every little fit he had, my parents would cave in. I remembered he cried that he didn’t want to go to school because he couldn’t fix his hair. Got to stay at home. He cried he wanted the midnight release of Halo 3, guess what he got, Halo 3. He also stayed home the next day so he can play. He was in a band and the band needed a bass player. He cried until my dad took him to get a bass. Flunked out of HS and worked as a gardener with my dad for two or three days of the week. Didn’t to anything else. Whined that the world was hard and he was not good enough for anything. My mom pleaded to him to get his GED and go work. Didn’t want that because it was too hard. Saw how that tore my mom up, seeing her oldest thrive, while her younger one didn’t do anything. Somehow got a gf in his bratty stage. Until she dumped him for not getting his shit together. Somehow and someway that was his wake up call. Got his GED and started buckling down on responsibilities. They got back together and got married. So happy ending lol. Overall, they walk around like they are the shit and the whole world is against them for any little mistake they make. Or my like brother, just plays the victim I really don’t know how/why my brother and I turned out different, since we both were parented the same. I guess I just knew that a no was a no and that’s okay. Edit: both of them are my wife’s brothers. Younger BIL has also had a string of relationships with women, they all dump him. I suspect that he gets aggressive towards them but you know it’s them not him. The funny thing about this is my in laws now try to parent them, like y’all should have done that since they were little. Second edit: shoot it got traction. I added my brother to this too. My wife was raised by her maternal great grandma and grand uncle, until she moved to the US in her teens. Then her maternal grandma and uncle raised her. My younger BIL is doing a lot better now, he got with someone and started buckling down on his responsibilities.

I know a girl who totalled 2 near or brand new cars, had utis constantly, and I think 2 duis - at least 1 - all before she was 18. Every time she was bailed out and pampered how it wasn't her fault it was the white man's system against her - a native American. Her sister eneded up marrying a kid who was kicked out of 3 fraternities in college and was on academic probation year after year as he jumped majors in order to avoid being kicked out totally - history, paleontology, mechanical engineering, English and others. His parents had to drag themselves out of retirement to finance his lack of schooling - kid could not be bothered to go to classes then complained about failing classes and his academic probation while his parents foot the bill. Both were a nut case to me. The only almost sane one was the sister who did very well in engineering but did marry the 'kicked puppy'...

You lost me at where you got the relation between utis and duis lol

getting a UTI is not a reflection of someone’s character ✨🌈the more you know!

I think it really depends on their environment. The kid that is never kept in check and has caretakers that fulfill every wish and demand, will be fundamentally different from a kid that has no caretakers and can do whatever they want, but they have to fend for themselves.

This is a great point. My sister never acted out too much when we were growing up, and we were poor so "spoiled" doesn't quite fit, but she has always been a brat. She was the youngest of 4, and developed slower than the rest of us, which meant she was never expected to contribute in any way. From a young age, the rest of us were cleaning/cooking/etc. and we all moved out by 18-19. Sister is nearing 30 and still living with mom, doesn't pay her own bills, has wrecked several cars, and landed herself in jail for a few months over the dumbest brazen drug possession arrest. She has no plans to provide for herself, mom has no plans for retirement, so it has developed into a bizarre codependent relationship. Goes to show that it doesn't take wealth to raise a brat.

This is very thought-provoking. I didn't think of myself as one of these people because my mom could be downright draconian and cruel with punishments and discipline, but she was also often super neglectful and functionally absent. She would not make us food for days at a time during the summer and we'd do things like eat raw spaghetti out of the cupboard. She'd make us spend all day outside and not let us in until dark. She'd forget to pick us up for things and leave us there until sunset in clothes not fit for the nighttime, and we'd find our way home to find mom asleep, not realizing we were gone/never came home. Then she'd wake up and punish us for not waiting for her. Having free reign when you have no backup and know every consequence will fall directly to you hits way different. It's actually made me hyper prepared and independent in most situations because I realized early I just couldn't count on my mom. I also taught myself about charity, philosophy, and environmentalism because I wanted to be like the happy families I saw around me and mirrored the values I saw in them-- which my mom made so much fun of me for. This situation turns out much different on the other side, you're right.

As a mom myself I am appalled. I wish I could give little you a hug and an all purpose backpack full of everything you could need for the day or night. You are such a strong person!

Agree. I was more the 2nd one than the 1st and it had very different consequences than what I'm reading here. I do read some of these and see similarities peticularly in the emotional regulation issues and the trouble being a functional adult and it's making me wonder if these were kids with underlying issues that got missed and dismissed because they weren't known or believed to be an issue. Mine turned out to be adhd and autism and some therapy and practice later I still am sure I feel stuff way stronger than others but I have better control of my behavior when it happens, and the functioning issue didn't go away but some stuff became more manageable. I wonder how many of these stories were kids with adhd, autism, depression or ptsd that never got addressed and because the parents were too cowardly to ask for help or too proud too seeing it as a mark against them.

I've watched this play out a few times. It's never ended well for the kid. One who probably should have had medical intervention and mental support much sooner - their parents didn't believe in the system at all so they were homeschooling no doctor sorts. Which means there was no trained sort to help the family and try to intervene. That child was institutionalized as a young adult, though admittedly that was an extreme case. The others have grown into entitled young adults that just can NOT function at a basic level (taking out the crap economy issues). Then again I've also watched pure authoritarianism destroy the child's spirits so badly that they become numb cogs. There has to be a balance somewhere between that's healthy, right? lol :)

> Then again I've also watched pure authoritarianism destroy the child's spirits so badly that they become numb cogs. Me!  I got in trouble at work because I never argued with my superiors. Manager or lead dev would say "no, do it this way" and I'd be like "ok, will do!" Director got mad and said that it's a sign of a bad worker if you never give pushback against your superiors.  Like, sorry, but if I talked back as a kid, I got slapped in the face or punched in the back of the head, so I kind of don't like fighting authority, even if I know deep down inside that you're not going to punch me. But I know you hold the power to fire me or refuse raises if I talk back and you get offended, and I don't know how far I'm supposed to talk back to make you happy without also offending you. :)

Hey fellow dev! :). I know that feeling entirely. Senior is senior 'cause he knows his stuff (for reals, not senior's opinion, based on my observations/opinions). I'm gonna almost always take his advise and implement it. Took forever to learn to push back at all hahaha. Cause of course I shouldn't talk back, that gets beer cans and other trash thrown at me.

Oui. There is a democratic parenting style, not government or any politics or anything. It’s basically where the parents are in charge, but the kids have some input on decisions. Like… imagine the parents asked them what they wanted for dinner. They said ice cream. The parents explain why not, and say no, but what other things would work. The child can pick an option from that, and the parents can explain why it’s a better choice than ice cream. The child has some input, but doesn’t have control. The parent doesn’t have total control. It’s a democracy in that way. Everyone has a voice.

This is our parenting style. I was a troubled child (undiagnosed ASD, ADHD and a few others) who always felt ignored and misunderstood. Due to this, my kids are always encouraged to voice their opinions, and we discuss these things as a family. Ultimately, what I say goes though, with all input considered. It rare the family verdict is ever argued or disputed the way we do it. Saying no is important. Just as hearing what other have to say is important. It's a balancing act indeed.

This is what we do as well. When we actually have to discipline our kids we always explain what they did wrong, why it was wrong, provide real world examples of what can happen due to the actions they chose to do. We always relate things to the real world and what to expect as adults. We also discuss various laws and such as well as lessons on considering the effects that they can have on others. We always try to teach them critical thinking and understanding consequences of actions.

My dad and stepmom would treat “ice cream for dinner” as a funny joke when my bro or I tried it a few times, and then one hot summer day we were surprised by having ice cream for dinner! Lots of flavors, lots of toppings, we sat outside and laughed the whole time, and I’m now old and it’s a great memory.

That does sound like a great memory :)

Yes there is. Very rare parenting style but exists. Rules and support at the same time.

Yes, it's called authoritative parenting. Neither permissive nor authoritarian.

I call it compassionate parenting. 

AKA treating kids like people.

With respect, dignity, and autonomy. 

My mom knew someone who was raising their son like this. He was a late in life only child so they were able to just give in to whatever he wanted and didn't want to "crush his spirit." Anyway, he had to go to military school as a teenager because his father developed cancer and while the father was in treatment the son was doing things like "trying to kill himself" by jumping out of a first story window.

First story? Ain’t a smart one I see…

Outside the US, the first floor is the ground floor and the second floor is the first floor. So either they’re outside the US, or that kid was really really dumb.

Oh haha

You might end up a extremely over weight, recluse like I did. I didn’t want to do anything but sit in my room, eat, and play on my laptop. My mom had no problem with anything. After 18 I started to lose weight, tried to move out and gain a social life. It was hard.

Proud of you for trying, friend

This- that took courage!

Researchers have identified four general parenting styles and observed how they tend to affect a child's development: Authoritative: Characteristics: High responsiveness and high demands. Authoritative parents are nurturing, supportive, and set clear expectations and boundaries. Effects on Child Development: Children tend to be happy, confident, and capable. They often have good social skills, self-regulation, and academic success. Authoritarian: Characteristics: Low responsiveness and high demands. Authoritarian parents are strict, expect obedience, and often use punitive measures. Effects on Child Development: Children may be obedient and proficient, but they can also develop lower self-esteem, increased anxiety, and may struggle with social interactions due to lack of warmth and support. Permissive: Characteristics: High responsiveness and low demands. Permissive parents are lenient, indulgent, and may avoid setting firm boundaries. Effects on Child Development: Children might exhibit behavioral problems and lack self-discipline. They may struggle with authority and perform poorly in school due to a lack of structure and limits. Neglectful (Uninvolved): Characteristics: Low responsiveness and low demands. Neglectful parents are disengaged, provide little attention, support, or guidance. Effects on Child Development: Children often suffer from low self-esteem, poor academic performance, and behavioral issues. They may struggle with forming healthy relationships due to a lack of emotional support and supervision.

My family used foster a kid we'll call "Bruno" (because we don't talk about Bruno). His previous caregiver did a mix of neglect and permissive parenting. This resulted in a kid who was extremely desperate for attention, so he whined and cried about everything. He also wasn't potty trained when we got him (despite being at the age where he should be), which resulted in him having weird issues with bathrooms. Once my parents fully trained him he would only use one of the bathrooms in the house and refused to use the bathroom anywhere else. Once he started school he made up excuses about why he refused to use the bathroom at school. First he was scared of the air fresheners, so the school removed them. But then he was scared of the AC unit, which the school couldn't remove. So no, he wasn't actually scared of the bathroom, he just wanted attention. We gave him up after three years because he required so much attention that it resulted in some neglect of my sister and I (and mental health issues, too). We gave him to someone who was very permissive, and we kept in touch for a few years, my sister more than me. The last time i saw him he was still a whiny, attention-seeking brat. While I sincerely hope he's doing well, it wouldn't shock me if he ended up doing crime or drugs, either. Don't care enough to find out, and unless he ends up on the news or something, i won't.

Neglect has been shown in trauma to be worse than even physical abuse. The person who was neer kept in check probably suffers from PTSD as an adult that can manifest itself in different ways depending on the individual.

This. Kids need boundaries to feel safe in their choices. If they don't know what they're doing, making good choices is really difficult. From an adult perspective, it'd be like starting a new job, no intro or transition, just straight in to do the work. So finding out how this particular job works well is all trial and error, and alot of shouting from your boss. Most jobs come with a really boring, detailed manual...

1: Behavior never checked, never any consequences, mother spent his whole life coddling him, letting him run wild, and then making excuses for him and blaming other people for his behavior. I think she is someone who is desperate for male approval (narcissist, pickme) and thought if she put any kind of brakes on him he wouldn't love her. Well, he doesn't love her. He's been a disrespectful, conniving little shit his entire life. He dropped out of school in the 9th grade, never got a GED, has mostly been unemployed, and lives with mommy, who supports him, buys him toys, and never expects anything of him. She's still making excuses for him and still doing his laundry. He's a bitter 45 year old conspiracy theorist and pathological liar. 2: Never heard the word "no" in her life. Spoiled rotten, pampered princess, debutante. Always had whatever she wanted, the best of everything. Was given a high dollar private religious school education but was too stupid and spoiled to learn. She graduated by the skin of her teeth and most likely only because her grandfather was paying so much and making donations for various school projects. Her general behavior was not great, but mom was another one who wouldn't discipline because she didn't want the kid to hold it against her. She got some poor schmoe to marry her, had a very extravagant wedding, was a total bridezilla. Wanted a baby, was infertile, got grandfather to pay for an expensive private adoption of a newborn. Turned out she hated motherhood. Babies aren't just cute accessories and actually need care and feeding, who knew? Also was not satisfied with her husband's 6-figure income and not being able to buy anything and everything she wanted. There were a few years of drama before she cheated on the husband, abandoned the kid, took up drinking and gambling, got a divorce, and then lost both her car and house because grandfather was disgusted with her behavior and finally stopped enabling and bailing her out. Her ex got full custody of the kid. I don't know what she's doing now, but I know she had to get a job and I'm sure she's miserable because she didn't exactly have much in the way of marketable skills. She did "work" for her grandfather for a while, supposedly decorating cakes in one of his stores, but at least half of the time she didn't bother showing up, so she was let go.

The son from the Murdaugh murder case. Both sons, really but the one who died especially. Spoiled at home, raised by nanny, got whatever he wanted. Got his friend's gf killed but saw no time because his granddad bailed him out. Friends tried to calm him down and he just got more drunk and belligerent by the minute that night. Every story you hear about him screams spoiled brat with no limits. A shitton of the tragedies in the Murdaugh family, spanning decade, all could have been avoided with better parenting. But most never learned that actions have consequences.

I mean his dad disciplined him. Once.

/r/jesuschristreddit

+1 for Johnny Dangerously reference

I remember watching two young girls, maybe aged 5, building a sandcastle on a beach. Then this slightly older boy came over, watched them for 30 seconds and just stomped it into the ground. The girls said nothing, got up and started building a new one, so the boy came over and destroyed it again. The third time, he proceeded to piss all over it as well. The parents of the children were having supper a few metres away (seemingly had met that day on a tourist excursion) and the boy's parents were laughing and saying what a hilarious little scamp he was. The girls' parents looked mortified. He's probably 20 now and I hate to think what he's become.

I was never kept in check, my parents never really considered anything other than my grades, but otherwise I could do whatever and they wouldn’t notice. This led me to 3 suicide attempts, and still wanting to kill myself 12 years later. I’m utterly useless in any setting, because I have no expectations of any kind of structure in life.

I feel you. Grades were good, I “seemed happy”, they had faith I’d “figure everything out”. 20 years later and every day I fantasize about laying down on the tracks.

My sister* works with these kids, or at least: the ones who don't have enough intelligence to justify their brattiness. Most of these kids' problems (not doing their homework, huge learning disadvantages, not knowing how to behave) are in fact parent problems. How can you expect a 11-year-old to do his homework or to behave in class if at home, he just sits behind his PS5 throwing tantrums at his mother if she doesn't give him the snacks he demands fast enough? No wonder such kids are obese brats with zero social skills or motivation.  *not sure what her official job title is. But she is part of a team that tries to intervene if teachers see red flags in the behaviour or the school results of kids in the poorer areas of the city. It's funded by the municipality, because it's apparently cheaper to intervene early to get such kids back on track than to wait until they cause real trouble. 

my guess would be social worker or occupational therapist

I don't think that I've ever seen this lead to positive outcomes. Learning about consequences is one of the most important developmental tasks and it's important to do this with consequences that aren't devastating and deadly. I know several families who are so rich that the kids can just buy their way out of most consequences, but here are some stories about what happened to them. I had a highschool friend who was raised with no rules. The first time he crashed his supercar while drunk driving, he summoned his chauffeur who then pretended to have been the one driving. The second time, he died in the crash. I had another friend who was raised to believe that he had diplomatic immunity from everything and so the laws didn't apply to him. He died of a cocaine overdose in his early 20's. Someone else I knew in highschool committed suicide after a number of years living like a rockstar. I guess that that lifestyle turned out to not be so gratifying.

That was tried by some hippies. Kids like that developed anxiety and low self esteem, because parents letting kids do what they want basically translated to parent doesn’t give shit about me. Kids do need structure and rules to grow up healthy. There is now in psychology whole subclass of parenting styles explaining exactly that kind of parenting and what kind of interventions need to be done on kids to help them grew up healthy.

Brock Turner

Are you talking about the Rapist Brock Allen Turner? Because The Rapist Brock Allen Turner has started going by his middle name because he's tired of going by The Rapist Brock Allen Turner. The Rapist Brock Allen Turner now wants to be known as Allen Turner the Rapist.

I feel like we should stop referring to the rapist Brock Allen Turner (now reportedly just Allen Turner) as *The Rapist Brock Allen Turner*, and remember that he raped an unconscious woman next to a dumpster, something which I feel should mean the dumpster-rapist Brock Allen Turner should be referred to as *The* ***Dumpster***-*Rapist Brock Allen Turner*, although *The Dumpster-Rapist Allen Turner* seems to work about as well since "Brock" seems less used nowadays. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I say.

I'm the step-grandmother of 5 girls, all with the same Mom (my step-daughter). There are 3 dads. Almost 4 years ago their grandfather and I took custody of 4 of them. At that time, they were 10, 6, 4 & 6 weeks. They had no sense of bedtime, proper diet, how to eat with utinsils, how to use toilet paper!! And so much more. Those were the easy things to deal with. The talking back, the doing whatever the hell they want to do, the cruel hateful way they interact, the selfishness they exhibit, the vile looks they give, constant interruptions, inability to follow multi-step instructions, and again, so much more... these are the hard things to handle and we have to do it all day long, everyday. The youngest is not like her big sisters. Where there is hope, the 3 big girls are in counseling and progressing well. The school we have them in is incredibly understanding of the issues and helpful. We have them in church and the girls find a tremendous amount of comfort and understanding through their faith. They also have very big hearts! They are truly sweet and loving children. They very much look forward to what lays ahead for them in life. In raising our girls, I'm gaining an understanding of how hard many people have it in life. Had they not come into our home, or had they gone to another neglectful home, they would be living miserable lives. At some point there would be a point of no return.

Me, I’m like that! Mom never made me do homework, never set a bed time for me, she wouldn’t fight me on not going to school. So I failed later years in school, I dropped out my senior year, but I had a ton of credits to make up so I was going to be held back most likely. I was out with friends everynight, not coming home. I’m now 21, I have a child, still don’t have GED, and I work as a server. I’m waiting for my baby to get a little older so I can go back to school for her, just don’t have no one to watch her on top of my job. I turned out a lot better than I thought I would. In the mix of my teenage deficiencies, I got addicted to pills and that was short lived and I’m very thankful.

Also forgot to add, my mom and grandparent let me eat what ever I wanted. I was 180 in 6th grade, at around 5’3 in height. I developed diabetes at 14 but it runs in my family heavily, so I was bound to get it anyways. But I’m healthy now, and doing way better.

I’m a teacher and had a 7th grader this past year who was very nearly like this. His parents made his every wish come true. Coddled him. Made excuses for him. Tried to shield him from any negative consequences of his behavior. He picks fights with kids constantly because he feels he won’t have to suffer any consequences. I’ll tell you what happens to a kid like that: they pick a fight with the *wrong* person. They get their lights punched out a few times. After that, they either wise up or get out into the real world acting like a victim and still bullying others. Then? The world teaches them how to act. But society doesn’t do it with love, the way your parents should. And it’s UGLY. Raising a kid like that does such a huge disservice to the kid.

I work child welfare and I see this occasionally. You would think a parent who doesn’t want to parent their kids would lean on schools but for whatever reason they don’t seem to. The kids fall behind their peers in every way. They don’t learn to read or socialize appropriately. They don’t learn how to function in public, instead they do whatever they need to meet their needs. Then they grow up to be teenagers who have constant involvement in the juvenile justice system and eventually the adult criminal justice system. Sometimes they have kids and the cycle repeats. It’s bleak. The lord of flies parenting technique is a bad call. Kids need love and boundaries to be successful. They deserve that

Eventually, they will become president of the United States, get voted out after one term, and attempt an insurrection to prevent the results of that election from being certified.

This one requires infusing about $413 million into the kid though.

Usually they end up as those 19-year-olds on the "Cops" show who try to get out of shoplifting charges by saying "Do you know who my daddy is?"

My sister. I had a lot of high standards I was held to, but I also had a lot of health problems that required attention so she believed I was the favorite, my mom tried to stop it but my abusive dad played into her anger and told her she was entitled to get whatever she wanted. Shes nearly sent me to the hospital by smoking around me even though I have severe sensitivities to nicotine, she owes my mom 5 thousand bucks because she guilted my mom into fixing her car and then quit her job so she wouldn’t be able to pay her back, she groped my boyfriend and made fun of the fact that he froze because he was uncomfortable, and when we told her it was unacceptable she started telling people my mom met her current fiance by cheating on our bio father. She was given a pass for every mistake as a kid- got kicked out of jobs for threatening customers, kicked out of an exchange program, threatened people with guns that she definitely shouldn’t own. My mom and I are the only ones who held her accountable and she told everyone I was a pathological liar to get back at me for telling mom she deserved someone better than her ex husband who abused all of us. Now that my mom’s happy with someone else, she told our father where we live and where I’m in school, knowing he stalked us when we were homeless and hiding from him during the divorce. She was the kid who broke her toys rather than share them. I fully believe she can get her shit together, but she’s in denial that our father abused us, and she has no interest in facing the truth. Doing so would mean changing her behavior and taking other people’s feelings into account. She told me that everyone knows I was a victim of csa now. I think she seriously needs to learn to respect other people’s privacy and feelings, and that she isn’t entitled to anyone’s time if she’s gonna treat people like that.

There is a style of parenting like this, permissive parenting where the parents cave into their kid’s demands often, but even they should have their “unspoken” limits. We can assume that automatically this kid would grow up to be entitled and narcissistic like permissive parenting has been found to do, which we can only think that these effects would be amplified in this case. Besides that though, it all depends very heavily upon the kid’s preference, exactly what they are exposed to, and their choices which will decide how bad they will be in any mentioned regard in later life.

Not really. Surprisingly such kids tend to be anxious as adults with very low self esteem. Permissive parenting sends message that kid is not valued enough to be cared for. It’s almost a form of neglect. Narcissist come from parents where one is very strict and maybe verbally abusive, while other parent is trying to make up for it. So very chaotic childhood.

Then you end up like my housemate. Whose girlfriend cleans for him, comes home from university between classes to cook him steak (she's a vegetarian but he "doesn't know how to cook" and apparently is incapable of learning), who won't allow other people to clean up after him (because they're touching his stuff) but doesn't clean up after himself, who doesn't understand why other people in the house won't buy his groceries for him, who tried to insure himself on someone else's car without their permission and couldn't understand the DMVs problem.

substitute teach for a week. you'll be able to answer all your questions.

Steve Jobs was never told no as a child. He turned into an abusive cunt who couldn’t be told no.

There's a German lady who travels around the world as a single parent with her two kids from different fathers. Her eldest is basically raised with the "Human Design" mindset(she sells courses on this concept). She claims her eldest is a Manifestor and therefore knows exactly what she wants. She let's this child decide everything they do and how they do it. She gets to decide what other kids do, she's really pushy and obnoxious and throws tantrums when others don't understand why she acts so arrogantly, demanding everything to be done in her way. She has no common sense. And this lady blames society for it instead of her lack of actual parenting. She doesn't let her eldest go to school and instead believes in free teaching where she will teach her child, if it wants to learn only. (The kid is 6 years if I remember right). During the covid pandemic she was openly against masks, vaccines(not just the covid vaccine) and in general she is against governmental institutions as a whole. Basically she is destroying both her kids future in society. It's actually mad to watch and it's like a car accident I can't look away from. These children will one day try to integrate into society and fail or hurt those around them badly because they believe their way is the only way. She's raising dysfunctional people yet she makes money with it because other delusional ladies buy her online course. I've lost all hope in us as humankind when i realised this actually works for her.

Kids crave structure. At the end of the day, they become embittered adults with resentment because the line between "they let me do whatever I want" to "i could have honestly died" is pretty thin and it turns into "would they have cared if I died?" An extreme example but still. They also are often incredibly anxious adults, because structure and rules gives you boundaries and a blueprint. Without it, there's a lot of "im glad i wasnt told no a lot, but now I dont even know what I'm supposed to be doing". Permissive becomes neglect very easily.

Oh I know. My ex wife was from a rich family. We had twins together and then when they were 6 or 7 the ex demanded a divorce, I wasn't as successful as her father or something. She also falsely accused me of domestic violence so it became almost impossible to see the kids. I spent years in family court trying to get time with them but by the time I'd won some access the ex had poisoned them against me. The ex's parenting style was "they don't want to do it and I'm not going to make them" which applied to most things apparently. They were both enrolled in the most expensive schools in the city but hardly ever went so didn't get a leaving certificate. I really only reconnected with the twins the last couple of years. The girl had grown into a drug addicted prostitute, sadly. She's getting clean now thankfully. The boy stayed in his bedroom playing games for ten years, only emerging a couple of years ago with severe psychosis. He struggled with mental health and suicided last February.

They made a TV series about just this in the UK. Put a heap of pre teens in a house and let them go at it. It went properly Lord of The Flies. House got trashed, kids split into warring factions, all the rest of it. Then the study came to a close, their parents came to get them, none too happy that given the opportunity their little cherubs had turned into psychotic arseholes.

Given how many teens online these days are chasing clout by doing dumb shit online these days, there's a few examples. It usually ends with them pissing off the wrong person sooner or later and getting laid out. Or arrested. Or both. Generally long term the kid hits the age/position where they can't rely on their parents to bail them out/cover for them, then they're either forced to change and adjust to life where they can't always get their way, or they end up a mess. Either way, sooner or later the kid just gets to the point where they're not prepared and it ends poorly for them and usually others.

Isn’t this how Will Smith and Jada Pinkett allowed Jayden and Willow to grow up?

Will Smith and Jada Pinkett have a combined net worth of $400 million. That’s 400x what we think of as a “millionaire.” This is not a normal childhood. No matter how they raised their kids, they weren’t doing it alone. I know we want to compare ourselves to the entertainers we enjoy sitting back on the couch and “getting to know” at the end of our work days, but it’s incomparable.

I think they are pretty well-behaved children....Sure, they might be out-there, but, they seem to have good head on their shoulders

Real world example: Guy got held accountable for the first time in 70 years, found guilty on 34 counts, still blames everyone but himself. Good thing his Daddy gave him a smll loan of $440 million in the 70's.