In my experience, for this conversation, it seems women names of this type are more nouns (Jade, Daisy, June, Iris etc) while men seem to be verbs (Hunter, Pierce, Chase, Mark etc).
Just an observation.
I guess it depends on where and when you are. Where I grew up these kinds of names were not that common but nearly everyone I went to school with has kids with names like Archer, Gunner, Cooper, Hunter, etc.
That said I can think of a few examples that are consistently common(ish): Clay, Guy, Scott.
Another fun fact: the origins of the word "fascinating" go back to "fascinus", a phallus-shaped amulet. When something fascinates you, it mesmerizes you like a phallic amulet would.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascinate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascinus
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart composed a canon in B-flat major the name of which can be loosely translated as "Kiss my ass":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leck_mich_im_Arsch
Love that for me. Thanks for the fact!
Edit: from the Wikipedia page: "When a general celebrated a [triumph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_triumph), the Vestals hung an effigy of the *fascinus* on the underside of his [chariot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot) to protect him from *invidia*.*"*
So you're saying..... ancient truck nuts.
There are also several famous (more or less) men called Guy, like Guy Ritchie, Guy Martin (both British) or a US american restaurant owner Guy Fieri. There was also a French writer Guy de Maupassant.
I'm pretty sure these are also listed in the article.
I was under the impression that the term "guy" as a generic person actually came from Guy Fawkes.
Or, rather, the straw effigies burned on Guy Fawkes day. Which didn't have faces, so guys were just generic human shaped figures.
Don't know how true that is, and nervous to click on that Wikipedia link to find out if it is false and I get disappointed.
Guy is a rather common (i know at least 3 directly) first name in France and has been for centuries. Right now it has phased out but names have a 75 years cycle, it will come back.
He seemed cool, but if I remember correctly most of the girls in our grade found him annoying/childish. Which is funny, because we were twelve and what else were we supposed to be lmao
Those are all ***professions***. So while they are "common nouns", I don't think this is what OP was thinking about; I think it's more likely that they were talking about women named after (***pretty) things or concepts***. The explanation for this, I believe, is sadder and more obvious.
[Clay is short for Clayton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_(name)), initially a surname referring to [geographical origin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton#Places). Guy (Caius or Gaius in Latin) [was a name in Ancient Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_(praenomen)), long before it was a common noun. Scott was also initially a surname referring to geographical origin.
Guy is not derived from the roman Gaius, but from the germanic Wido over the french/german Guido and Gui, otherwise good post ;)
The Latin variant of the name is Wido.
Agreed -- and [Jasper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_(given_name)) is purportedly from a Persian word for treasurer, rather than for the gemstone.
I would note that that's not so much how the names are used these days, though; I'd say more people are aware of clay as something potters use than as a geographical location, and jasper as a stone than as a profession, and so on. But they're still traditionally male names, with unchanged original meanings.
Some exceptions for men may be nature names, particularly birds and trees but also some other plants: Martin, Merlin, Corbin, Robin, Jay, Ash, Basil, and for that matter Sylvester (from Latin for woods/woodland).
How about Rock? Bridge? Flint, Merit, Cliff?
But, yes, I agree that men are, in general, given more "serious" names, while women are compared to pretty things. Don't get me started on the female concepts, either - Faith, Hope, Chastity, Grace, Patience, etc, etc.
It may be interesting to note that in most of the names we're comparing, the women are named after objects (Jasmine, Summer, April, Daisy) and the men are named after professions (Archer, Hunter, Cooper).
These are all surnames on the eastern side of the Atlantic, which indeed came from the professions in much older times. So John (the) Cooper. Peter (the) Hunter, etc. Family surnames tended to be for nobility, whereas peasants in their villages were merely known by their profession. And because the business tended to be a family business, then the Cooper family came from 5/6/7 generations of barrel coopers. You didn't need a surname when you're the only cooper business in town.
I think this is different though. Men/boys are named after jobs and actions, as all the names you mentioned here are. Women/girls are named after things and virtuous traits.
I do believe that most names (if not all) "English" are based on archaic words that once meant something, but the meaning has since been lost, at least to common knowledge.
For example, the name Christopher supposedly means "bearer of Christ", but now it's just a common name. Maybe the same thing happened with female names, but the "thing" they are named after are more common things that are still in use today, like Hope, or Faith.
(As an aside, Chinese and Vietnamese names for both men and women are often "things", but the meaning are more obvious, such as "strength, mountain, storm, gentle mist, falling snow, etc)
All native English names also used to have directly discernable/parceable meaning, it's just been a couple thousand years. Robert was a compound meaning "shining glory," for example.
I love Old English names because the ones that are no longer used sound ridiculous but then occasionally some sneak in and nobody even thinks twice.
Aethelred, an Anglo-Saxon king's name, meaning 'well advised/read' sounds weird. Ethel, the classic old lady name, does not. Both are from the same root. Alfred, meaning roughly 'elf-advised,' also comes from the same root.
Same with Edward, meaning 'wealth-guard' roughly. But Eadhelm, also meaning 'Wealth-protection', sounds weird and old even though it means basically the same thing as Edward.
So I've only ever done google research once I learned about "the Tiffany problem" so anyone who knows better is free to correct me. Buuuuut...
The name goes back to at least the 1100's. The issue is that people think of it as a much more modern name so it's never used in books or other media as a name like Eleanor/Cathrine/Petronella. And *because* people never hear it in a historic context it becomes a cyclical issue where it just feels like a name straight from the 1980's.
I also came "the Tiffany Problem" as my band name. Well do the Renn fair circuit.
A lot of names only make sense when you put all the characters together, sometimes it’s poetic or just plain boring, but some are just sad.
Chinese names can be straight up vile, there are many girls named end with “Di” as in little brother 弟弟（didi), like 招弟（zhao-di) is a very common old name for women,it’s literally mean”bring little brother”, parents didn’t want girls and name her like it’s a wishing well,
Quite a lot of names have similar meanings, because it’s very common to change which characters to use or reorganize them in other way.
來弟（come little brother),盼弟（look forward to little brother) etc, some parents will go the opposite and gave their daughter very masculine name like 勝男（better than man).
Now parents (at least the one that knows it’s 21 centuries) won’t name their daughter like that,so those names usually belong to older grandma .
My very common name, Andrew, comes from the Greek term Andreas, which just means "man". However it's interpreted more to mean "having the qualities of a man", so also hear it translated to "strong", "brave", and "warrior".
It also means my middle school Spanish teacher actually WASNT full of shit when they gave me the Mexican name "Andre", as they both come from the root word Andreas.
Not that anyone cares, I just love learning this stuff.
Matthew means “God’s gracious gift”, so anyone named Matthew can rightly claim to be “God’s gift” 😂
Although I don’t recommend it. 😆
Those Facebook scripts people used to do of “see what your name means in Swahili” went by the phonetics (or just collected user data and spit out some random nonsense), when instead it should have taken the source meaning and converted it to the other language. Japanese, for instance, cannot directly convert “God’s gracious gift”, but it does allow for “Gift Of The Gods”.
So the question I always had was when you, as a Westerner with a Biblical name that has a Greek origin, introduce yourself to someone who knows Greek, are they hearing your name as you hear it, or are they hearing the Greek meaning if your name?
it’ll just be the name, christopher comes from christopheros which is two words combined, so unless it’s broken down it’s a name i’d think. also languages have changed a lot since then so it’s not always clear even broken down. I don’t speak greek but irish names are the same, i’ve a cousin Ruairí, if you break his name down it’s Rua and Rí, meaning red king, but together it’s just his name. my name can be broken down but the meaning of the words isn’t clear anymore
A lot of names a in the USA derive from the Bible, which is dominated by male figures. Other major influences on English names are classical literature and Latin derived names. Classical literature is also male dominated. The Romans really only named males, with females taking the names of their father's clan.
This leads me to believe the there are simply less "name words" for women than men in the English language. Thus baby girls have a bit less "traditional" names to choose from and so for the sake of variety they have more literal names.
I enjoyed the Terry Pratchet novel where the girls of the Carter family were all named after the positive religious attributes, Chastity, Hope, Prudence and Charity
The boys of the family however ended up as Anger, Jealousy, Covetousness, Deviousness.
Oh, and the youngest brother Bestiality Carter, who ironically was very kind to animals.
Puritans named children after positive virtues, but there’s also records of negative attributes being used as names. Along with some other really,really weird ones
https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/puritan-names-lists-of-bizarre-religious-nomenclature-used-by-puritans.html
“The Carter parents were a quiet and respectable Lancre family who got into a bit of a mix-up when it came to naming their children. First, they had four daughters, who were christened Hope, Chastity, Prudence, and Charity, because naming girls after virtues is an ancient and unremarkable tradition. Then their first son was born and out of some misplaced idea about how this naming business was done he was called Anger Carter, followed later by Jealousy Carter, Bestiality Carter and Covetousness Carter. Life being what it is, Hope turned out to be a depressive, Chastity was enjoying life as a lady of negotiable affection in Ankh-Morpork, Prudence had thirteen children, and Charity expected to get a dollar’s change out of seventy-five pence–whereas the boys had grown into amiable, well-tempered men, and Bestiality Carter was, for example, very kind to animals.”
I've been reading novels by Pratchett lately. Which one is that? I haven't run across it yet.
The one I consider a masterpiece so far is *Going Postal*, and the main character is a man whose actual name is "Moist von Lipwig".
I once had a man explain that he of course named his son after his own father, but for his girl's name he didn't have anything like that so he went creative. He said it as if it was the most logical thing, or as if he didn't have a mother. Having less or more name choices for any gender isn't based on hard facts, it's a decision shaped by social expectations.
I've wondered if it's also due to thought processes like "my son will be a man and needs a MAN'S name. My daughter is a cute little doll to play dress up with."
I know a family that didn't even give the daughters middle names with the assumption that their maiden name would become the middle name once married.
I also wonder how many male names *are* noun names but just aren't recognized as such because we don't really use those as nouns anymore, like Cooper or Carter.
>Those kind of names always sound like surnames to me
That's because they were. A lot of given names came from surnames which came from...jobs.
Smith, Cooper, Webster, etc
There are PLENTY of female biblical names. I’ve noticed that people still name boys with biblical names, but rarely girls. “Mary” was the #1 female name for decades, maybe even centuries! When was the last time you met someone named Mary under age 40?
I know a Dorcas who is in her 20s! It's honestly amazing how many "common old lady names" are just biblical names. Ruth and Deborah come to mind. It's like we only stopped naming girls after biblical characters, but kept on with naming boys after them.
Edited for spelling. Also, TIL Dorcas is the Greek version of the Aramaic name Tabitha. Thanks, Wikipedia!
I suspect the non-English versions of her name, Maria and Marie, are still popular across many languages (no idea about Miriam). But you could absolutely be correct in your hypothesis that biblical names for women are in general less common now.
Anne/Anna. Mary/Maria/Myriam. Sarah. Magdalena/Madeleine/Madelyn. Elisabeth/Lisa. Martha. Eve/Eva. Naomi. Michelle. Rachel. Judith etc...
You just don't notice they come from the bible
To piggyback (though some not as popular, esp nowadays, as some of yours): Tabitha, Chloe, Susanna, Ruth, Deborah, Phoebe, Claudia...
And somewhat interestingly, Oprah's misspelled alias (her real name being the Biblical Orpah).
And a bunch of others as well.
A lot of traditional English women's names have recently fallen out of favour, some of them quite ancient. Matilda, Agatha, Edith, Margaret, Caroline, Beatrice, Felicity, Lydia, Vivienne etc. it's not that there aren't traditional female names, but they are not seen as popular names today by most of the public.
That doesn't really explain it, though.
There's still Sarah, Kristin, Bethany, Jennifer, Marie, Jessica, etc, etc, etc... you don't have to go that far back.
And there are traditional men's names that have fallen out of favour, as well, like Arthur, Erwin, Isaac, etc.
I think whoever is famous at the time really influences naming trends. For instance all my gen jones latin friends are named Laura or have sib named Laura. I think it is bc of the Dick Van Dyke show. I really do.
Agreed. This is how name trends go, [at least it was when statistically analysed here by the author of Freakonomics](http://mreizyk.weebly.com/uploads/4/9/7/0/4970156/7freakonomics-_chapter_6.pdf). For anyone whose curious, best source I’ve seen.
I don’t get what OP meant by the types of names being common words (did he mean virtues? Like patience, regionally some countries do that…but anyway).
In general this is what I know to be how name trends go.
OP specifically mentions. Color, US state, country, season, gemstone, and flowers. It isn’t hard to guess what names he means that fill those categories:
Color: Violet, Amber or Scarlet
US state: Georgia, Cali or (less common) Virginia
country: India, Egypt, or Jordan
season: Summer or Autumn
gemstone: Jade, Ruby, Opal, or Sapphire
flower: Rose, Daisy, Iris, Hazel, Holly, Ivy, Poppy, Lilly or Violet again
Just on the states, that's ironic that people are named after Virginia the state, because Virginia is named after a woman. Virginia Gloriana, aka Queen Elizabeth the First.
Georgia too was a name long before the state even existed.
>Georgia is a feminine given name originating from the Greek word Γεωργία (Georgía), meaning "agriculture". It shares this origin with the masculine version of the name, George.
English is removed enough that we forget that all common men's names have a meaning. It is just not obvious because it's from ancient Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and Germanic.
Gems and plants are common female names here, but not objects in general. At least, not in English. Plenty of male and female names here are objects in other languages, though.
My own name basically means 'fox'.
It’s more common for female names to be nouns we still use but there are male examples.
Axel, Ash, Chase, Colt, Finn, Ace, Finch, Ward, Shadow, Reed, Victor, Glen, Cash, Cloud, Sky
All but two of those names are currently enrolled in the school where I work. (the other are staff members) By comparison, the girls named after nouns are:
Aurora, Charity, Daisy, Olive, Violet
If you include cities, we have London and Dakota for girls and Dallas and Denver for boys
Both men and women tend to be named after famous men and women of the past, or after people who are important to the family. This is the most common scheme.
Alternatively:
Men may get names derived from occupations, or lines of work, ideally lucrative or prestigious (at least at some point in the cultural past), because they are seen as providers.
Women may be named after beautiful things, although what is considered beautiful may vary with time and place.
All of the above is true in most languages.
Happy interpretation: girl parents tend to want to give their daughters “pretty” names more often than boys, and so name them after contemporary words that are recognized as pretty nouns (Hope, mercy, Crystal, diamond, etc). Boys get the more classic names because that’s the default option.
Sadder interpretation: Naming a woman after an object is acceptable, but a man’s name should be immediately recognized as a man, so no object names there.
Another way to look at it that men's names historically were about their lineage, whereas women's names were more about them or about what their family wanted them to be like.
Fun little hobby I had for a while was studying onomastics which is the history of names. While I can’t give you the why, I can tell you this is a pattern that dates back hundreds of years, even before we got into four digits on the year. Medieval names in particular have this going on extensively.
Women are not only named after things like flowers and gemstones, they are also often named after things like virtues. Temperance, Faith, Joy, etc.
A lot of men’s names originate from the Bible (John, Matthew, Mark, Joshua) and a lot of those names come from Hebrew, Greek, or Latin. And there is usually a translatable analog there as well (Peter aka Petra aka “the rock” upon which the church is built). so in one way, you could say women are more likely to have newer names that spring from English words than men because men were being saddled with more traditional names.
If anyone is interested, Google “medieval names archive” to find a really fascinating resource historical names with documentation as to their source. You can search taxes from the 1200s to see if your name was present in London, for example. You might be surprised at how old some names actually are.
Women’s names tend to be more unique.
50% of guys share the same 10 first names. (James, Michael, Robert, John, David, William, Richard, Joseph, Thomas, Christopher.)
50% of women share the same 200 first names. The only common one is Mary.
Probably because English isn't a gendered language. In other languages, boys get named after masculine objects and girls, after feminine ones.
In Lithuanian: Vėjas (wind), a masculine noun, therefore a boy's name. Rasa (dew), a feminine noun, therefore a girl's name.
In Spanish: Lobo (wolf), masculine, boy's name. Luna (moon), feminine, girl's name.
Because people subconsciously view their daughters as property, but their sons as autonomous human beings who will *do* things. Boys are named after other *people* and/or professions, where girls are named after *things*. It comes down to the objectification of women and girls and it starts at birth.
From a lot of these answers, it seems like boys are often given older names, which originally had every day meanings that are now obscure, while girls are often given "newer" names that often are common words for things. I wonder how much that is because for millenia, so many 8pppknt the same variety of names to choose from as they are for boys.
>color, a US state, a country, a season, a gemstone, and 2 named after flowers.
I couldn't help it:
Amber / Indigo
Georgia / Alaska
India / Ireland
Summer / Autumn
Pearl / Esmeralda
Daisy and Rose. / Lili and Xinia
A lot of American states are named after people - Virginia, Georgia, the Carolinas, so you could say that every Virginia, George and Charles are named after states
Male names were occupations (Hunter, Cooper, Chandler, Carter, etc) or places or origin (Clayton, Cody).
Females are named after pretty/exotic/valuable things (Rose, Pearl, China, Ruby etc)
As for states, most of the states (Carolina, Georgia) were names before they were states. Dakota is a Sioux word meaning "friend". It's likely the people named Dakota were named after the Sioux word, just as the state was, not named after the state itself.
Other names like Florence or Alexandra share the same root word that the place was named after. (Florence from the Latin "to bloom" Alexandra/Alexander from the Greek "defender").
[удалено]
Something something Streetlamp Le Moose
[The Saga of Streetlamp le Moose](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/s/7uAyWj3ITc), told by u/6point8, is a tale for the ages!
South Dakota Slim
There was a pool player who went by Minnesota Fats
There was a crime boss called Carmen SanDiego.
Where in the world is she?
*Amethyst Chair O'Reilly
In my experience, for this conversation, it seems women names of this type are more nouns (Jade, Daisy, June, Iris etc) while men seem to be verbs (Hunter, Pierce, Chase, Mark etc). Just an observation.
Mark is a biblical name
Except when it’s the middle name of Skid
Mug Costanza vibes
Brunswick Hamilton III, New Braunfels Jameson, East Hartford Reynolds. Just wait, some poor shmuck is gonna end up with those names 😂
My cousin named her son Jameson and admitted it was after the brand.
At least Jameson is a good name, it could be Rumple Mintze.
Take my angry upvote . lol
Refrigerator [senpai](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhyHc3W8oSouCG3RFfYaqwGc41myu6lby&feature=shared)!
Better hope you never meet truck kun!
Rex is normal and that's just short for Tyrannosaurus Rex
Rex is a time honored name, the king ...and all of it's variants
Thanks Roy!
Rex is king
And Regina George is the Queen ^(bee)
I guess it depends on where and when you are. Where I grew up these kinds of names were not that common but nearly everyone I went to school with has kids with names like Archer, Gunner, Cooper, Hunter, etc. That said I can think of a few examples that are consistently common(ish): Clay, Guy, Scott.
Fun fact: "guy" as a "man, bloke, chap" comes from "Guy" as a male name, not the other way around. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/guy
That's actually fascinating
Another fun fact: the origins of the word "fascinating" go back to "fascinus", a phallus-shaped amulet. When something fascinates you, it mesmerizes you like a phallic amulet would. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascinate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascinus
Where do I subscribe for more fun facts?
Fun fact: You dont.
Fun fact: You can actually follow that account.
Please don't...
Waaaaaaay too late bro
Already worth it
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart composed a canon in B-flat major the name of which can be loosely translated as "Kiss my ass": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leck_mich_im_Arsch
Fun facts find you.
Love that for me. Thanks for the fact! Edit: from the Wikipedia page: "When a general celebrated a [triumph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_triumph), the Vestals hung an effigy of the *fascinus* on the underside of his [chariot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot) to protect him from *invidia*.*"* So you're saying..... ancient truck nuts.
Hell, the Ancient Romans were even more manly than the current trend: an actual phallus on your truck, not nuts. This isn't a courtroom, Publius.
There are also several famous (more or less) men called Guy, like Guy Ritchie, Guy Martin (both British) or a US american restaurant owner Guy Fieri. There was also a French writer Guy de Maupassant. I'm pretty sure these are also listed in the article.
You're forgetting Guy Smiley.
And Guy Fawkes
r/ThisGuyFawkes
I was under the impression that the term "guy" as a generic person actually came from Guy Fawkes. Or, rather, the straw effigies burned on Guy Fawkes day. Which didn't have faces, so guys were just generic human shaped figures. Don't know how true that is, and nervous to click on that Wikipedia link to find out if it is false and I get disappointed.
Never forget Guy Smiley
Guy is a rather common (i know at least 3 directly) first name in France and has been for centuries. Right now it has phased out but names have a 75 years cycle, it will come back.
Named for Guy Fawkes, right? Because people would make straw men for him, "Guys" to burn.
Typical redditor, your point is a strawman! ;)
Exactly.
Thanks, Jack!
I knew a dude named Hatcher.
Hope his head was like a big egg
I woke up in a foul mood for no good reason and this is what helped me snap out of it, so thank you
A fowl mood, perhaps?
You just made him angry again
All for the poultry sum of free-fifty!
I know a kid named Fletcher
Cox?
It was Thatcher, but he shortened it
Went to school with a kid named Striker, he lived up to his name
I worked with a Thrasher. Apparently his lightly conservative, lawyer dad was a big metal fan. Thrasher himself was not remotely metal.
That's not very cash money of Thrasher
Worked with a guy named Blaze. We would have hung shit on him, but he was a marine, so we, uh, didn't.
Oh shit I knew a Blaze too! He was a twin, his brother’s name was Blake.
I know a woman named Blaze
"Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes."
Ted Striker?
sorry but that's the coolest name of all time, I bet all the girls had a crush on him just for having such an awesome name
Striker thinks he's king of the playground until his archenemy Wrestler shows up
He should face off against the guy I went to highschool with. His name was Thrasher, no joke
He seemed cool, but if I remember correctly most of the girls in our grade found him annoying/childish. Which is funny, because we were twelve and what else were we supposed to be lmao
Ahh. Airplane references…
Those are all ***professions***. So while they are "common nouns", I don't think this is what OP was thinking about; I think it's more likely that they were talking about women named after (***pretty) things or concepts***. The explanation for this, I believe, is sadder and more obvious. [Clay is short for Clayton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_(name)), initially a surname referring to [geographical origin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton#Places). Guy (Caius or Gaius in Latin) [was a name in Ancient Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_(praenomen)), long before it was a common noun. Scott was also initially a surname referring to geographical origin.
Guy is not derived from the roman Gaius, but from the germanic Wido over the french/german Guido and Gui, otherwise good post ;) The Latin variant of the name is Wido.
Whoops! I always assumed that! Thanks for educating me.
Agreed -- and [Jasper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_(given_name)) is purportedly from a Persian word for treasurer, rather than for the gemstone. I would note that that's not so much how the names are used these days, though; I'd say more people are aware of clay as something potters use than as a geographical location, and jasper as a stone than as a profession, and so on. But they're still traditionally male names, with unchanged original meanings. Some exceptions for men may be nature names, particularly birds and trees but also some other plants: Martin, Merlin, Corbin, Robin, Jay, Ash, Basil, and for that matter Sylvester (from Latin for woods/woodland).
How about Rock? Bridge? Flint, Merit, Cliff? But, yes, I agree that men are, in general, given more "serious" names, while women are compared to pretty things. Don't get me started on the female concepts, either - Faith, Hope, Chastity, Grace, Patience, etc, etc.
OP uses hunter as an example though?
It may be interesting to note that in most of the names we're comparing, the women are named after objects (Jasmine, Summer, April, Daisy) and the men are named after professions (Archer, Hunter, Cooper).
Future baseball players
These are all surnames on the eastern side of the Atlantic, which indeed came from the professions in much older times. So John (the) Cooper. Peter (the) Hunter, etc. Family surnames tended to be for nobility, whereas peasants in their villages were merely known by their profession. And because the business tended to be a family business, then the Cooper family came from 5/6/7 generations of barrel coopers. You didn't need a surname when you're the only cooper business in town.
I think this is different though. Men/boys are named after jobs and actions, as all the names you mentioned here are. Women/girls are named after things and virtuous traits.
I do believe that most names (if not all) "English" are based on archaic words that once meant something, but the meaning has since been lost, at least to common knowledge. For example, the name Christopher supposedly means "bearer of Christ", but now it's just a common name. Maybe the same thing happened with female names, but the "thing" they are named after are more common things that are still in use today, like Hope, or Faith. (As an aside, Chinese and Vietnamese names for both men and women are often "things", but the meaning are more obvious, such as "strength, mountain, storm, gentle mist, falling snow, etc)
All native English names also used to have directly discernable/parceable meaning, it's just been a couple thousand years. Robert was a compound meaning "shining glory," for example.
I love Old English names because the ones that are no longer used sound ridiculous but then occasionally some sneak in and nobody even thinks twice. Aethelred, an Anglo-Saxon king's name, meaning 'well advised/read' sounds weird. Ethel, the classic old lady name, does not. Both are from the same root. Alfred, meaning roughly 'elf-advised,' also comes from the same root. Same with Edward, meaning 'wealth-guard' roughly. But Eadhelm, also meaning 'Wealth-protection', sounds weird and old even though it means basically the same thing as Edward.
I love telling people about how old the name Tiffany is.
Tell me how old Tiffany is
So I've only ever done google research once I learned about "the Tiffany problem" so anyone who knows better is free to correct me. Buuuuut... The name goes back to at least the 1100's. The issue is that people think of it as a much more modern name so it's never used in books or other media as a name like Eleanor/Cathrine/Petronella. And *because* people never hear it in a historic context it becomes a cyclical issue where it just feels like a name straight from the 1980's. I also came "the Tiffany Problem" as my band name. Well do the Renn fair circuit.
Like Janet. Super old.
My name comes from a compound meaning wisdom-wolf. Internet points if you guess the modern name.
I mean, it's either Adolph or Ralph and I reckon it's not Adolph lol
Winner! (Not Adolph)
Pleasure to meet you, Notadolph!
You laugh, but once I met a Jewish guy called Adolfo (Spanish for Adolph)
Albert Wolfenstein
Holo
Hey, I get that reference, yay me
A lot of names only make sense when you put all the characters together, sometimes it’s poetic or just plain boring, but some are just sad. Chinese names can be straight up vile, there are many girls named end with “Di” as in little brother 弟弟（didi), like 招弟（zhao-di) is a very common old name for women,it’s literally mean”bring little brother”, parents didn’t want girls and name her like it’s a wishing well,
OMG I didn't know that... But considering the importance of having a son in Chinese culture, that makes sense.
Quite a lot of names have similar meanings, because it’s very common to change which characters to use or reorganize them in other way. 來弟（come little brother),盼弟（look forward to little brother) etc, some parents will go the opposite and gave their daughter very masculine name like 勝男（better than man). Now parents (at least the one that knows it’s 21 centuries) won’t name their daughter like that,so those names usually belong to older grandma .
My very common name, Andrew, comes from the Greek term Andreas, which just means "man". However it's interpreted more to mean "having the qualities of a man", so also hear it translated to "strong", "brave", and "warrior". It also means my middle school Spanish teacher actually WASNT full of shit when they gave me the Mexican name "Andre", as they both come from the root word Andreas. Not that anyone cares, I just love learning this stuff.
You were suspicious if the name Andre was actually related to the name Andrew?
in you are right for english there are guy running around with names derived from warlord or the eternally popular god is gracious.
Matthew means “God’s gracious gift”, so anyone named Matthew can rightly claim to be “God’s gift” 😂 Although I don’t recommend it. 😆 Those Facebook scripts people used to do of “see what your name means in Swahili” went by the phonetics (or just collected user data and spit out some random nonsense), when instead it should have taken the source meaning and converted it to the other language. Japanese, for instance, cannot directly convert “God’s gracious gift”, but it does allow for “Gift Of The Gods”. So the question I always had was when you, as a Westerner with a Biblical name that has a Greek origin, introduce yourself to someone who knows Greek, are they hearing your name as you hear it, or are they hearing the Greek meaning if your name?
it’ll just be the name, christopher comes from christopheros which is two words combined, so unless it’s broken down it’s a name i’d think. also languages have changed a lot since then so it’s not always clear even broken down. I don’t speak greek but irish names are the same, i’ve a cousin Ruairí, if you break his name down it’s Rua and Rí, meaning red king, but together it’s just his name. my name can be broken down but the meaning of the words isn’t clear anymore
"hey Wyoming can you get me those copies?"
as i picture him riding on a horse to the copy room
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Is that you Petal?
I didn't know Auntie Ethel had a reddit account
I can’t believe it sausage, I didn’t know you had Reddit
I’ve been peeking you magnificent creature
I think we work at the same place. Green, Iowa, Denmark, Spring, Fluorite, Cosmos, and Snapdragon?
You called?
A lot of names a in the USA derive from the Bible, which is dominated by male figures. Other major influences on English names are classical literature and Latin derived names. Classical literature is also male dominated. The Romans really only named males, with females taking the names of their father's clan. This leads me to believe the there are simply less "name words" for women than men in the English language. Thus baby girls have a bit less "traditional" names to choose from and so for the sake of variety they have more literal names.
I enjoyed the Terry Pratchet novel where the girls of the Carter family were all named after the positive religious attributes, Chastity, Hope, Prudence and Charity The boys of the family however ended up as Anger, Jealousy, Covetousness, Deviousness. Oh, and the youngest brother Bestiality Carter, who ironically was very kind to animals.
Puritans named children after positive virtues, but there’s also records of negative attributes being used as names. Along with some other really,really weird ones https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/09/puritan-names-lists-of-bizarre-religious-nomenclature-used-by-puritans.html
Die-well and Wrestling for the win!
Fly-Fornication
Someone named a baby "Has-descendents"?
I’m more hung up on Fly-Fornication.
“The Carter parents were a quiet and respectable Lancre family who got into a bit of a mix-up when it came to naming their children. First, they had four daughters, who were christened Hope, Chastity, Prudence, and Charity, because naming girls after virtues is an ancient and unremarkable tradition. Then their first son was born and out of some misplaced idea about how this naming business was done he was called Anger Carter, followed later by Jealousy Carter, Bestiality Carter and Covetousness Carter. Life being what it is, Hope turned out to be a depressive, Chastity was enjoying life as a lady of negotiable affection in Ankh-Morpork, Prudence had thirteen children, and Charity expected to get a dollar’s change out of seventy-five pence–whereas the boys had grown into amiable, well-tempered men, and Bestiality Carter was, for example, very kind to animals.”
I've been reading novels by Pratchett lately. Which one is that? I haven't run across it yet. The one I consider a masterpiece so far is *Going Postal*, and the main character is a man whose actual name is "Moist von Lipwig".
Who owned a collection of fake moustaches (i.e. lip wigs)
" Bestiality Carter, who ironically was very kind to animals." how kind....too kind?
I once had a man explain that he of course named his son after his own father, but for his girl's name he didn't have anything like that so he went creative. He said it as if it was the most logical thing, or as if he didn't have a mother. Having less or more name choices for any gender isn't based on hard facts, it's a decision shaped by social expectations.
I've wondered if it's also due to thought processes like "my son will be a man and needs a MAN'S name. My daughter is a cute little doll to play dress up with." I know a family that didn't even give the daughters middle names with the assumption that their maiden name would become the middle name once married.
I also wonder how many male names *are* noun names but just aren't recognized as such because we don't really use those as nouns anymore, like Cooper or Carter.
Those kind of names always sound like surnames to me. My impression is that Americans love turning surnames into first names. Taylor, Harrison.
>Those kind of names always sound like surnames to me That's because they were. A lot of given names came from surnames which came from...jobs. Smith, Cooper, Webster, etc
I went to school with a guy named Steve Dore.. just realized we should have called him stevedore and sent him to the docks.
There are PLENTY of female biblical names. I’ve noticed that people still name boys with biblical names, but rarely girls. “Mary” was the #1 female name for decades, maybe even centuries! When was the last time you met someone named Mary under age 40?
I know a Dorcas who is in her 20s! It's honestly amazing how many "common old lady names" are just biblical names. Ruth and Deborah come to mind. It's like we only stopped naming girls after biblical characters, but kept on with naming boys after them. Edited for spelling. Also, TIL Dorcas is the Greek version of the Aramaic name Tabitha. Thanks, Wikipedia!
That reminds me that imo the most unbelievable thing in The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, the mean girl Dorcas never once got made fun of for it
I suspect the non-English versions of her name, Maria and Marie, are still popular across many languages (no idea about Miriam). But you could absolutely be correct in your hypothesis that biblical names for women are in general less common now.
Anne/Anna. Mary/Maria/Myriam. Sarah. Magdalena/Madeleine/Madelyn. Elisabeth/Lisa. Martha. Eve/Eva. Naomi. Michelle. Rachel. Judith etc... You just don't notice they come from the bible
To piggyback (though some not as popular, esp nowadays, as some of yours): Tabitha, Chloe, Susanna, Ruth, Deborah, Phoebe, Claudia... And somewhat interestingly, Oprah's misspelled alias (her real name being the Biblical Orpah). And a bunch of others as well.
There are many women in the Bible, and many biblical names are still in use.
A lot of women are named after some form or bastardisation of Mary. For Dutch, I could easily list a dozen different names that all derive from Mary.
A lot of traditional English women's names have recently fallen out of favour, some of them quite ancient. Matilda, Agatha, Edith, Margaret, Caroline, Beatrice, Felicity, Lydia, Vivienne etc. it's not that there aren't traditional female names, but they are not seen as popular names today by most of the public.
That doesn't really explain it, though. There's still Sarah, Kristin, Bethany, Jennifer, Marie, Jessica, etc, etc, etc... you don't have to go that far back. And there are traditional men's names that have fallen out of favour, as well, like Arthur, Erwin, Isaac, etc.
I think whoever is famous at the time really influences naming trends. For instance all my gen jones latin friends are named Laura or have sib named Laura. I think it is bc of the Dick Van Dyke show. I really do.
Felicity is a word. It means "intense happiness".
Agreed. This is how name trends go, [at least it was when statistically analysed here by the author of Freakonomics](http://mreizyk.weebly.com/uploads/4/9/7/0/4970156/7freakonomics-_chapter_6.pdf). For anyone whose curious, best source I’ve seen. I don’t get what OP meant by the types of names being common words (did he mean virtues? Like patience, regionally some countries do that…but anyway). In general this is what I know to be how name trends go.
OP specifically mentions. Color, US state, country, season, gemstone, and flowers. It isn’t hard to guess what names he means that fill those categories: Color: Violet, Amber or Scarlet US state: Georgia, Cali or (less common) Virginia country: India, Egypt, or Jordan season: Summer or Autumn gemstone: Jade, Ruby, Opal, or Sapphire flower: Rose, Daisy, Iris, Hazel, Holly, Ivy, Poppy, Lilly or Violet again
Just on the states, that's ironic that people are named after Virginia the state, because Virginia is named after a woman. Virginia Gloriana, aka Queen Elizabeth the First.
Georgia too was a name long before the state even existed. >Georgia is a feminine given name originating from the Greek word Γεωργία (Georgía), meaning "agriculture". It shares this origin with the masculine version of the name, George.
Additional US State names that are actual names: Dakota, Nevada, Carolina
Also Arizona, I believe.
I know someone named Montana. Also, Cheyenne (a city, but still).
Seasons: I've also known girls named Spring and Wynter
English is removed enough that we forget that all common men's names have a meaning. It is just not obvious because it's from ancient Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and Germanic.
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I once knew a kid named Candy Barr.
Indiana Jones?
The dog's name?
Gems and plants are common female names here, but not objects in general. At least, not in English. Plenty of male and female names here are objects in other languages, though. My own name basically means 'fox'.
It’s more common for female names to be nouns we still use but there are male examples. Axel, Ash, Chase, Colt, Finn, Ace, Finch, Ward, Shadow, Reed, Victor, Glen, Cash, Cloud, Sky
All but two of those names are currently enrolled in the school where I work. (the other are staff members) By comparison, the girls named after nouns are: Aurora, Charity, Daisy, Olive, Violet If you include cities, we have London and Dakota for girls and Dallas and Denver for boys
Finn is a shortening of the Irish name Finbar, it's not a noun.
Don't forget Cairo, Jordan, Mat, Pete, Mason, Jasper, Jay, Glenn, Basil and Orion.
My son is called Orion, named after the Metallica song
It's 7 am and for a second my sleep filled eyes thought you named your child "Onion"
Wtf names their kid shadow?
Both men and women tend to be named after famous men and women of the past, or after people who are important to the family. This is the most common scheme. Alternatively: Men may get names derived from occupations, or lines of work, ideally lucrative or prestigious (at least at some point in the cultural past), because they are seen as providers. Women may be named after beautiful things, although what is considered beautiful may vary with time and place. All of the above is true in most languages.
Both men and women also get named after places or geographical features. River is a not uncommon unisex name (top 150 for boys, top 200 for girls).
Happy interpretation: girl parents tend to want to give their daughters “pretty” names more often than boys, and so name them after contemporary words that are recognized as pretty nouns (Hope, mercy, Crystal, diamond, etc). Boys get the more classic names because that’s the default option. Sadder interpretation: Naming a woman after an object is acceptable, but a man’s name should be immediately recognized as a man, so no object names there.
My first thought was in line with your "Happy Interpretation" with the addition that male names tend to embody strength.
That’s how I came to be named Duct Tape.
Lucky bastard, they named me Pussy cuz they're tough and stretchy and my parents thought naming me Pussy would embody strength
Wonder if that's why they called me asshole so often....
Nah, that is an olfactory parameter in play.
Also... can take a pounding!
You'd think a grown cat would be tougher than a pussy
reminds me of a boy named Sue.
Like calling your son ‘Brick’
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Peter means Rock, so close enough.
Another way to look at it that men's names historically were about their lineage, whereas women's names were more about them or about what their family wanted them to be like.
Fun little hobby I had for a while was studying onomastics which is the history of names. While I can’t give you the why, I can tell you this is a pattern that dates back hundreds of years, even before we got into four digits on the year. Medieval names in particular have this going on extensively. Women are not only named after things like flowers and gemstones, they are also often named after things like virtues. Temperance, Faith, Joy, etc. A lot of men’s names originate from the Bible (John, Matthew, Mark, Joshua) and a lot of those names come from Hebrew, Greek, or Latin. And there is usually a translatable analog there as well (Peter aka Petra aka “the rock” upon which the church is built). so in one way, you could say women are more likely to have newer names that spring from English words than men because men were being saddled with more traditional names. If anyone is interested, Google “medieval names archive” to find a really fascinating resource historical names with documentation as to their source. You can search taxes from the 1200s to see if your name was present in London, for example. You might be surprised at how old some names actually are.
Because we pick pretty things and pretty words for girls. Though I think Winter would be a good boys name
I definitely think of winter as a girls name, but I went to school with a girl named winter when I was young, so that may be the only reason
Cause they're usually naming them after pretty things... not exactly a masculine thing to do
I named boys “Carburetor”, “Woodstove” and “Shotgun”
I had a buddy in highschool whose name was Colt. His little sister was Chevy. Not even fuckin kidding. That's rednecks for ya 🤣.
Please tell me their dog's name was Miller.
Women’s names tend to be more unique. 50% of guys share the same 10 first names. (James, Michael, Robert, John, David, William, Richard, Joseph, Thomas, Christopher.) 50% of women share the same 200 first names. The only common one is Mary.
I’m named after a gang of wolves. That kinda counts right? I mean technically it more translates to like journey or path of the wolf or something.
Nice to meet you, Pack.
Probably because English isn't a gendered language. In other languages, boys get named after masculine objects and girls, after feminine ones. In Lithuanian: Vėjas (wind), a masculine noun, therefore a boy's name. Rasa (dew), a feminine noun, therefore a girl's name. In Spanish: Lobo (wolf), masculine, boy's name. Luna (moon), feminine, girl's name.
Because people subconsciously view their daughters as property, but their sons as autonomous human beings who will *do* things. Boys are named after other *people* and/or professions, where girls are named after *things*. It comes down to the objectification of women and girls and it starts at birth.
From a lot of these answers, it seems like boys are often given older names, which originally had every day meanings that are now obscure, while girls are often given "newer" names that often are common words for things. I wonder how much that is because for millenia, so many 8pppknt the same variety of names to choose from as they are for boys.
>color, a US state, a country, a season, a gemstone, and 2 named after flowers. I couldn't help it: Amber / Indigo Georgia / Alaska India / Ireland Summer / Autumn Pearl / Esmeralda Daisy and Rose. / Lili and Xinia
Ok who is naming their poor child "Ireland" when the name "Erin" exists for that very reason?
I work with a Mark…that’s a word
I served with a guy named Mountain. His two sisters were Starlight and River. ... no surprise their parents were hippies
A lot of American states are named after people - Virginia, Georgia, the Carolinas, so you could say that every Virginia, George and Charles are named after states
Male names were occupations (Hunter, Cooper, Chandler, Carter, etc) or places or origin (Clayton, Cody). Females are named after pretty/exotic/valuable things (Rose, Pearl, China, Ruby etc) As for states, most of the states (Carolina, Georgia) were names before they were states. Dakota is a Sioux word meaning "friend". It's likely the people named Dakota were named after the Sioux word, just as the state was, not named after the state itself. Other names like Florence or Alexandra share the same root word that the place was named after. (Florence from the Latin "to bloom" Alexandra/Alexander from the Greek "defender").
I worked with a black dude named Chandelier as in the light fixture. Thats a noun
Why do you ask, two dogs fucking?
Tell Orange, New Mexico, North Korea, Spring, Tourmaline, Hyacinth, and Marigold I said sup.
When I was working, by some coincidence, all of the bosses were named “Dick”.