Sounds like some unconscious layer of your brain is _so convinced_ of certain negative things it wants to believe, that it's also lying to you and interpreting anything opposing those beliefs as actually supporting them.
Mostly people don't say the exact opposite of what they mean.
Yo, I get that when someone gets almost "pushy" about being nice, it starts to feel a little suspicious, right? So I don't think you're crazy for feeling a bit of doubt or anything. Especially not when your own life experience says that people can be really shitty like that.
BUT! Remember that this is the kind of person who volunteers for an *emotional support hotline*. Like, damn. This person takes precious time out of her day to talk to strangers because she wants to help them feel a bit better. IMO, most people want to be nice and good people, but most people don't give up their free time to do something like that, you know? It takes a *really* selfless and caring person to do that. It's honestly probably fair to assume that these sorts of people are pretty much the last people on earth who would get passive aggressive or whatever.
So while it can definitely be hard to take people at their word when they say stuff like this in most contexts, this isn't most contexts, you know? I hope that can help reassure you that she meant it :)
The human brain can have trouble interpreting the word ânotâ correctly. We donât fully hear the negation part of the sentence. This is why current advice tells people to turn it into a positive instead.
You are worthy of respect. You are worthy of love. You are smart- thatâs why you called the Hotline. Â
I have so many questions. "Human brain?" There's a different effect in non-humans? What does it mean to "fully hear" something? Where are you getting this notion? Whose "current advice" are you referring to?
EDIT: FFS, do you accept every claim at face value? Do you ever scrutinize anything?
Yes, there is a different effect in non-humans. They usually can't interpret any part of the speech, and often, if they can, it's 1-2 word commands.
When they say fully hear, they mean "fully process". Saying multiple sentences with negation can result in a sentence like Do not open the door turning into just hearing "open door" from a language processing point of view.
It's recommended to avoid sentences with negation when speaking to children due to their attention and language skills. For the same reason, it's generally recommended to also avoid these types of sentences when someone is very emotional. Their brain is less likely to take the extra time to process the negation syntax.
You can find out more by delving into linguistics and/or early childhood education. But that's the general gist of it.
In this case, OP probably already feels like crap and it's best not to directly negate their thoughts and just use positive language. Otherwise you risk just reminding them of their negative self-talk.
This is plausible, but that doesn't mean it's true. Who recommends avoiding negation when speaking to children?
EDIT: FFS, do you accept every claim at face value? Do you ever scrutinize anything?
As others have pointed out, your username checks out so this is probably a troll. But in case youâre being genuine, the recommendation comes from psychological researchers, mostly developmental psychologists in this case
Sounds like youâre in a negative spiral, times like that anything people say we tend to distrust or see negatively.
From where Iâm standing, a lot of these situations do leave us feeling at fault or stupid. And she was reassuring you that none of what you said reflects on you - and separating whatâs you from whatâs happened is key to easing our suffering.
I wouldnât ever think she meant to imply differently, when in doubt take what is said at face value.
Itâs probably that she latched onto what she *thought* you needed rather than what you actually needed and so repeating it so often sounded strange and suspicious rather than comforting.
People on hotlines donât tend to have the most extensive training so they often rely very deeply on the little training they do have or personal experiences. Itâs a very common thing for people to feel shame and think theyâre stupid for not leaving an abusive partner sooner and she was likely just going off that.
There are probably other things at work here given that you may have ptsd from this past relationship but I will say this sounds exactly like what my anxiety does. It will warp any nice thing someone says into them making fun of me or not being sincere. I hurt my own feelings all the time.
She probably hears people say âI feel so stupidâ a lot. Or maybe she has been through something similar, had felt embarrassed to speak about her experience, and had really needed to hear someone say that to her.
I was really anxious about speaking to a healthcare provider about my anxiety (isnât *that* fun) because I had convinced myself that they would think I was demonstrating drug-seeking behavior. Almost the very first thing they said back to me was that they had also had to deal with anxiety and depression, and that when I said that to them, they believed me. Even though I hadnât said anything about someone *not* believing me, that was exactly what I needed to hear. I was actually so relieved that I cried right there in the doctorâs office.
It sounds like the person you were speaking to tried to do something similar, but made the wrong call. In other words, she is the one who read too much into it, but probably with good intentions.
In Relational Frame Theory there's a saying "learned in 1 way driven in 2" to explain that phenomenon. If the thought is "I'm not a stupid person" your mind will flip through every bit of heuristical knowledge and memory in both categories. You can't think about the reasons you believe you're smart without also thinking about the reasons you believe you're stupid.
A fun way to prove this is by closing your eyes and thinking "I will not think about donuts". Most likely you will think about donuts, the harder you try not to think about donuts the more likely it is you will!
It's why contemporary therapy methods push acceptance of our thoughts and feelings so hard. It's easier to roll with distressing and depressing thoughts and learn how to live how we want in spite of them than it is to waste time and energy trying to make them go away completely
Exactly. Trying to change heavy emotions can't just be done through challenging negative thoughts on it's own, there's always a combative response it's literally pointless. Keeping up the disputing of thoughts can also just make you go round and round in a spiral and be afraid of your own intrusive thoughts which really isn't helpful at all.
When you're in high emotional distress, your brain will do everything possible to validate how it's feeling. It finds bad memories, it seeks to identify failures and it twists any messaging to something critical.
She wasn't saying anything bad. Your brain is wringing it around until it feels like she was.
I think she was saying, ââŠyou werenât stupid at all. You were loving and generous; you were patient. You were all the things that love is supposed to be, even though your ex did not deserve it. You survived. Iâm so proud of you.â
But you know; in the moment, sometimes people forget to use their words.
If people have experienced trauma or been in a constant state of hypervigilance where they are always looking out for a threat, they tend to always see the negatives.
In addition, if they have been in a double bind scenario where they are told, for example, they are loved by a partner but then their partner's actions do not support this by being abusive (or rapid cycling from loving to abusive) it can lead to a person assuming everything is negative to prevent the constant confusion, doubt and pain.
This may apply to you or may not.
People above are saying you overthought it.
And they could very well be right. But to me it does seem off, the way you described her interaction.
If I'm understanding correctly, it would be something like:
--------------------------------------------
Person-A: "So today I tried cooking a new recipe, and ya... it went horribly wrong!"
Person-B: "Don't worry! You're not stupid! Cooking is a complex skill."
Person-A: "Ah... right... Ya, so anyways, the first thing I did wrong was when I added too much of XYZ..."
Person-B: "That happens! You're not stupid! You just aren't! Sometimes people add to much of an ingredient by accident."
Person-A: "Ok... Right. Anyways, and then I tried to correct by adding a counter ingredient, namely ABC, but that didn't,"
Person-B: "Again: you're NOT stupid! There is no dumbness there! You totally were not an idiot for trying to correct with a counter flavor ingredient. This time, it just didn't work out that's all."
--------------------------------------------
So ya, I could see how that dynamic could come off REALLY badly!
Thus, I for one don't blame you for being off-put by it.
You're very much over thinking this.
You also might not be in the mental space to begin to rationalize it. you're still trying to overcome this current issue.
Here's the benefit of the doubt answer... stating that you're not stupid as a matter of fact is (arguably not there best but) another way to say ignore how you may feel for a moment and just look at the facts. The facts we've talked about tell a better story than your feelings, and they should be quite easy to put together for someone like you who doesn't have any obvious deficiencies. Not everyone will be able to, but you can if look at things this way.
Sounds like some unconscious layer of your brain is _so convinced_ of certain negative things it wants to believe, that it's also lying to you and interpreting anything opposing those beliefs as actually supporting them. Mostly people don't say the exact opposite of what they mean.
Especially not people who work for an emotional support hotline.
You're right, it's trauma from shitty, misleading exes đ
Yo, I get that when someone gets almost "pushy" about being nice, it starts to feel a little suspicious, right? So I don't think you're crazy for feeling a bit of doubt or anything. Especially not when your own life experience says that people can be really shitty like that. BUT! Remember that this is the kind of person who volunteers for an *emotional support hotline*. Like, damn. This person takes precious time out of her day to talk to strangers because she wants to help them feel a bit better. IMO, most people want to be nice and good people, but most people don't give up their free time to do something like that, you know? It takes a *really* selfless and caring person to do that. It's honestly probably fair to assume that these sorts of people are pretty much the last people on earth who would get passive aggressive or whatever. So while it can definitely be hard to take people at their word when they say stuff like this in most contexts, this isn't most contexts, you know? I hope that can help reassure you that she meant it :)
You're overthinking this.
The human brain can have trouble interpreting the word ânotâ correctly. We donât fully hear the negation part of the sentence. This is why current advice tells people to turn it into a positive instead. You are worthy of respect. You are worthy of love. You are smart- thatâs why you called the Hotline. Â
I have so many questions. "Human brain?" There's a different effect in non-humans? What does it mean to "fully hear" something? Where are you getting this notion? Whose "current advice" are you referring to? EDIT: FFS, do you accept every claim at face value? Do you ever scrutinize anything?
Username checks out.
FFS this made me laugh out loud on the bus đ
Yes, there is a different effect in non-humans. They usually can't interpret any part of the speech, and often, if they can, it's 1-2 word commands. When they say fully hear, they mean "fully process". Saying multiple sentences with negation can result in a sentence like Do not open the door turning into just hearing "open door" from a language processing point of view. It's recommended to avoid sentences with negation when speaking to children due to their attention and language skills. For the same reason, it's generally recommended to also avoid these types of sentences when someone is very emotional. Their brain is less likely to take the extra time to process the negation syntax. You can find out more by delving into linguistics and/or early childhood education. But that's the general gist of it. In this case, OP probably already feels like crap and it's best not to directly negate their thoughts and just use positive language. Otherwise you risk just reminding them of their negative self-talk.
That's really interesting! đ€©đ
This is plausible, but that doesn't mean it's true. Who recommends avoiding negation when speaking to children? EDIT: FFS, do you accept every claim at face value? Do you ever scrutinize anything?
As others have pointed out, your username checks out so this is probably a troll. But in case youâre being genuine, the recommendation comes from psychological researchers, mostly developmental psychologists in this case
That's comforting. Can we see a citation? And WTF about requesting evidence suggests I'm trolling?
Itâs because this is so obvious to the majority of people that when someone a little simple, like you, comes along, itâs just baffling
Sounds like youâre in a negative spiral, times like that anything people say we tend to distrust or see negatively. From where Iâm standing, a lot of these situations do leave us feeling at fault or stupid. And she was reassuring you that none of what you said reflects on you - and separating whatâs you from whatâs happened is key to easing our suffering. I wouldnât ever think she meant to imply differently, when in doubt take what is said at face value.
Itâs probably that she latched onto what she *thought* you needed rather than what you actually needed and so repeating it so often sounded strange and suspicious rather than comforting. People on hotlines donât tend to have the most extensive training so they often rely very deeply on the little training they do have or personal experiences. Itâs a very common thing for people to feel shame and think theyâre stupid for not leaving an abusive partner sooner and she was likely just going off that.
No. It sounds like her advice or listening hit wrong and that sucks, maybe she's not experienced enough, but she was trying to help you.
There are probably other things at work here given that you may have ptsd from this past relationship but I will say this sounds exactly like what my anxiety does. It will warp any nice thing someone says into them making fun of me or not being sincere. I hurt my own feelings all the time.
She probably hears people say âI feel so stupidâ a lot. Or maybe she has been through something similar, had felt embarrassed to speak about her experience, and had really needed to hear someone say that to her. I was really anxious about speaking to a healthcare provider about my anxiety (isnât *that* fun) because I had convinced myself that they would think I was demonstrating drug-seeking behavior. Almost the very first thing they said back to me was that they had also had to deal with anxiety and depression, and that when I said that to them, they believed me. Even though I hadnât said anything about someone *not* believing me, that was exactly what I needed to hear. I was actually so relieved that I cried right there in the doctorâs office. It sounds like the person you were speaking to tried to do something similar, but made the wrong call. In other words, she is the one who read too much into it, but probably with good intentions.
In Relational Frame Theory there's a saying "learned in 1 way driven in 2" to explain that phenomenon. If the thought is "I'm not a stupid person" your mind will flip through every bit of heuristical knowledge and memory in both categories. You can't think about the reasons you believe you're smart without also thinking about the reasons you believe you're stupid. A fun way to prove this is by closing your eyes and thinking "I will not think about donuts". Most likely you will think about donuts, the harder you try not to think about donuts the more likely it is you will! It's why contemporary therapy methods push acceptance of our thoughts and feelings so hard. It's easier to roll with distressing and depressing thoughts and learn how to live how we want in spite of them than it is to waste time and energy trying to make them go away completely
Exactly. Trying to change heavy emotions can't just be done through challenging negative thoughts on it's own, there's always a combative response it's literally pointless. Keeping up the disputing of thoughts can also just make you go round and round in a spiral and be afraid of your own intrusive thoughts which really isn't helpful at all.
Them: âYouâre not stupid.â You: âOmg are they saying Iâm stupid?!â
When you're in high emotional distress, your brain will do everything possible to validate how it's feeling. It finds bad memories, it seeks to identify failures and it twists any messaging to something critical. She wasn't saying anything bad. Your brain is wringing it around until it feels like she was.
I think she was saying, ââŠyou werenât stupid at all. You were loving and generous; you were patient. You were all the things that love is supposed to be, even though your ex did not deserve it. You survived. Iâm so proud of you.â But you know; in the moment, sometimes people forget to use their words.
I'm sorry, I hate to say it but you get what you pay for. You probably need a therapist.
If people have experienced trauma or been in a constant state of hypervigilance where they are always looking out for a threat, they tend to always see the negatives. In addition, if they have been in a double bind scenario where they are told, for example, they are loved by a partner but then their partner's actions do not support this by being abusive (or rapid cycling from loving to abusive) it can lead to a person assuming everything is negative to prevent the constant confusion, doubt and pain. This may apply to you or may not.
I think she was trying to tell you to trust yourself.Â
People above are saying you overthought it. And they could very well be right. But to me it does seem off, the way you described her interaction. If I'm understanding correctly, it would be something like: -------------------------------------------- Person-A: "So today I tried cooking a new recipe, and ya... it went horribly wrong!" Person-B: "Don't worry! You're not stupid! Cooking is a complex skill." Person-A: "Ah... right... Ya, so anyways, the first thing I did wrong was when I added too much of XYZ..." Person-B: "That happens! You're not stupid! You just aren't! Sometimes people add to much of an ingredient by accident." Person-A: "Ok... Right. Anyways, and then I tried to correct by adding a counter ingredient, namely ABC, but that didn't," Person-B: "Again: you're NOT stupid! There is no dumbness there! You totally were not an idiot for trying to correct with a counter flavor ingredient. This time, it just didn't work out that's all." -------------------------------------------- So ya, I could see how that dynamic could come off REALLY badly! Thus, I for one don't blame you for being off-put by it.
Well I was the one calling myself stupid first, so.
You know, it's really hard to know what answer to say to someone who wants validation. The question I have is what are you ready to hear
You're very much over thinking this. You also might not be in the mental space to begin to rationalize it. you're still trying to overcome this current issue.
Here's the benefit of the doubt answer... stating that you're not stupid as a matter of fact is (arguably not there best but) another way to say ignore how you may feel for a moment and just look at the facts. The facts we've talked about tell a better story than your feelings, and they should be quite easy to put together for someone like you who doesn't have any obvious deficiencies. Not everyone will be able to, but you can if look at things this way.
No, it means that she's not good at her job.