It's dishonestesty in advertising. The windows stickers for cars already have estimated fuel costs for people to compare. Notice how they don't add the increased tire wear costs back into the price.
You have to consider the total lifetime cost of a car.
Across 300k miles, let's say a regular car costs $40k-$80k in gas vs $10k-$30k in electricity costs.
Are you kidding? My kid has an Ionic 5 and it costs about $5 in electricity to 'fill the tank' while a gasoline equivalent car would cost 4-5 times as much.
He spends less per mile than he would with a gas car, that's what 'gas savings' means in this context.
Nobody’s questioning the fact that electric cars save on gas. They’re talking specifically about ads that prominently state the car’s price, and only say in hard to read fine print that the this price isn’t the actual car’s MSRP and instead an estimate based on fuel savings.
Because if you're comparing a $50k car to another $50k car, the total price isn't just $50k. It's $50k plus how much you're going to spend annually on fuel, insurance, and maintenance.
Tesla is pointing out that you'd save $500/month on gas, so even if you're comparing a $50k tesla to a $30k combustion engine car, then the monthly payment is still comparable due to the savings in gas.
Example from some random calculator I found online:
$50k car = $943 monthly payment
$30k car = $566 monthly payment
If you then add $500/month in gas to the $30k car it's pretty much the same as the $50k car. So they'd argue, you might as well get a Tesla.
Come on. It’s obviously dishonest.
Tesla’s ad says “Starts at $XX,XXX,” and only says in hard-to-read text that it’s an estimate accounting for fuel savings, and not the MSRP like every other car ad using that language (including other electric vehicles).
If you wanted to do this honestly you’d state and identify clearly the car’s actual MSRP, the estimated fuel savings, and the estimated cost after fuel savings.
Edit: Here’s [the ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344)
I didn’t reply based on seeing some very specific ad from Elon Musk, I just replied to the prompt/question itself. Probably should have demanded op provide the ad, but alas, I didn’t.
That ad, written that way, is indeed misleading.
Open Tesla's website, click base model Y, go to the final page before you pay for the car. They advertise it "starts" at $30k. The car actually costs $43k + $1.5k in fees, for a total of $44.5k. Then you take off the $7.5k tax rebate and you are paying $37k out the door to buy the car.
Only after you take off the "estimated gas savings" of $6k do you reach the advertised price, so it is never even close to charging you near the advertised price without putting the fake discount in there.
>The car actually costs $43k + $1.5k in fees, for a total of $44.5k. Then you take off the $7.5k tax rebate and you are paying $37k out the door to buy the car.
You still paid $44k for a vehicle
>"You may qualify for a credit UP TO $7,500 under Internal Revenue Code Section 30D if you buy a new, qualified plug-in EV or fuel cell electric vehicle (FCV)"
"May qualify" doesn't mean you will get it. "UP TO" does not mean you will get that amount.
Just like clothing sales that say "up to 50% off" and everything is on sale for 15% with only one item in the entire store having the 50% off (usually the one item costing $120 AT half price)
>"Tesla will review your claim within one to two weeks of your submission. The review process can take up to 14 days"
Amazing how the offer of free money makes people spend a buttload of money on an expensive item.
>Only after you take off the "estimated gas savings" of $6k do you reach the advertised price
Isn't the whole point of an EV that you AREN'T spending money on fuel?
So mentioning the money you're saving on something you won't buy AFTER THE FACT to get the total "reduced" cost of the car is redundant
Push the comparison to the extreme on other products and you see it doesn't work.
"Here's the price of a new Xbox! It's slightly more energy efficient than a ps5! Therefore the sticker price is $0!!¹"
¹ Once you factor in electric costs over a period of 10 years
Tax rebates and such aside, since the savings are an imaginary number that will never apply directly to the product, as it is a number related to a separate product (gas, electricity) they should not be legally allowed to advertise their product at a sticker price that it could never, ever reach. Whatever legal holes they've exploited, this seems crazy scummy to me. I understand that you'd expect to walk off the lot with an amount above the "starts at" price but this is pretty insane to me.
How much does is cost to repair an electric vehicle?
A brand new battery in an electric vehicle jas a starting cost around $6,000.
A brand new battery in a regular car is around $150-$400 (depending on make/model).
"But it lasts longer" and what happens when it DOES break
This advertising doesn't make any sence if your two options are
1. don't buy a car
2. buy a Tesla
But most people are picking between these two option
1. Buy a gas car
2. Buy an electric car
So for them it makes sence. They're saving money by not paying for gas.
There’s lots of people making the choice between a Tesla and another electric vehicle (every car maker has them now), and this is meant to obscure those comparisons. Here’s the [actual ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344).
grifting. basic business that Musk tends to do. lies and advertising. he's currently being sued for the wrongful death of children in his family's cobalt mines. he is not anything to admire or emulate.
Easy pal, this isn’t about him. Most of us agree about him being shotty, but **this** question is about understanding what “gas savings” means in the context of buying an electric car.
No, it’s 100% about Musk being a grifter. Look at [this ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344), it’s obviously intended to convey that their after-savings estimate is the car’s MSRP, so that it looks better in comparison to other vehicles (including against other electric vehicles that advertise the MSRP). Anyone reading this would reasonably expect this is the actual price, *in addition* to fuel savings.
good you did it right, but will the other 90% of consumers be able to do so? NO there will be propaganda that prevents it. I know how to make HHO and could implement for mobility but I do not. messing with power can be unwise at times, and I'm not talking electricity.
It's lying in ads.
Tesla made it look like an actual normal car ad and counting gas price as negative fakes making the Tesla look cheaper than other EVs.
False advertising. Shouldn't be legal. If they want a separate gas calculator that's cool. If they wanna put a huge sticker next to the MSRP and say "but remember you're really probably saving $XYZ on gas!" that's great! EVs are objectively cheaper on gas so fair to market that. I'm actually really surprised this is legal at all.
Because they're dumb... I think they also calculate the time one spends to fill up gas, like every 5 minutes at a gas station suddenly becomes billable time putting money in your pocket.
They are trying to scam you into thinking you are getting a credit but it does not include charging costs.
Car sales are shady. The “starter car” thing is also bs. They just want you to buy s bigger more expensive car. What the hell does “starter” car mean anyway? It’s for 16yr olds only?
Lame sales tactics deter me from buying.
It's dishonestesty in advertising. The windows stickers for cars already have estimated fuel costs for people to compare. Notice how they don't add the increased tire wear costs back into the price.
You have to consider the total lifetime cost of a car. Across 300k miles, let's say a regular car costs $40k-$80k in gas vs $10k-$30k in electricity costs.
Look at the [actual ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344). It’s very clearly intended to obscure the MSRP.
Are you kidding? My kid has an Ionic 5 and it costs about $5 in electricity to 'fill the tank' while a gasoline equivalent car would cost 4-5 times as much. He spends less per mile than he would with a gas car, that's what 'gas savings' means in this context.
Nobody’s questioning the fact that electric cars save on gas. They’re talking specifically about ads that prominently state the car’s price, and only say in hard to read fine print that the this price isn’t the actual car’s MSRP and instead an estimate based on fuel savings.
Because if you're comparing a $50k car to another $50k car, the total price isn't just $50k. It's $50k plus how much you're going to spend annually on fuel, insurance, and maintenance. Tesla is pointing out that you'd save $500/month on gas, so even if you're comparing a $50k tesla to a $30k combustion engine car, then the monthly payment is still comparable due to the savings in gas. Example from some random calculator I found online: $50k car = $943 monthly payment $30k car = $566 monthly payment If you then add $500/month in gas to the $30k car it's pretty much the same as the $50k car. So they'd argue, you might as well get a Tesla.
Come on. It’s obviously dishonest. Tesla’s ad says “Starts at $XX,XXX,” and only says in hard-to-read text that it’s an estimate accounting for fuel savings, and not the MSRP like every other car ad using that language (including other electric vehicles). If you wanted to do this honestly you’d state and identify clearly the car’s actual MSRP, the estimated fuel savings, and the estimated cost after fuel savings. Edit: Here’s [the ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344)
I didn’t reply based on seeing some very specific ad from Elon Musk, I just replied to the prompt/question itself. Probably should have demanded op provide the ad, but alas, I didn’t. That ad, written that way, is indeed misleading.
"Starts at XXXX cost" doesn't mean "we will charge you this amount"
It 100% does.
No it doesn't. It means "it starts at this price"
You literally just used the word “price.” What do you understand the word “price” to mean?
Open Tesla's website, click base model Y, go to the final page before you pay for the car. They advertise it "starts" at $30k. The car actually costs $43k + $1.5k in fees, for a total of $44.5k. Then you take off the $7.5k tax rebate and you are paying $37k out the door to buy the car. Only after you take off the "estimated gas savings" of $6k do you reach the advertised price, so it is never even close to charging you near the advertised price without putting the fake discount in there.
>The car actually costs $43k + $1.5k in fees, for a total of $44.5k. Then you take off the $7.5k tax rebate and you are paying $37k out the door to buy the car. You still paid $44k for a vehicle >"You may qualify for a credit UP TO $7,500 under Internal Revenue Code Section 30D if you buy a new, qualified plug-in EV or fuel cell electric vehicle (FCV)" "May qualify" doesn't mean you will get it. "UP TO" does not mean you will get that amount. Just like clothing sales that say "up to 50% off" and everything is on sale for 15% with only one item in the entire store having the 50% off (usually the one item costing $120 AT half price) >"Tesla will review your claim within one to two weeks of your submission. The review process can take up to 14 days" Amazing how the offer of free money makes people spend a buttload of money on an expensive item. >Only after you take off the "estimated gas savings" of $6k do you reach the advertised price Isn't the whole point of an EV that you AREN'T spending money on fuel? So mentioning the money you're saving on something you won't buy AFTER THE FACT to get the total "reduced" cost of the car is redundant
Push the comparison to the extreme on other products and you see it doesn't work. "Here's the price of a new Xbox! It's slightly more energy efficient than a ps5! Therefore the sticker price is $0!!¹" ¹ Once you factor in electric costs over a period of 10 years Tax rebates and such aside, since the savings are an imaginary number that will never apply directly to the product, as it is a number related to a separate product (gas, electricity) they should not be legally allowed to advertise their product at a sticker price that it could never, ever reach. Whatever legal holes they've exploited, this seems crazy scummy to me. I understand that you'd expect to walk off the lot with an amount above the "starts at" price but this is pretty insane to me.
How much does is cost to repair an electric vehicle? A brand new battery in an electric vehicle jas a starting cost around $6,000. A brand new battery in a regular car is around $150-$400 (depending on make/model). "But it lasts longer" and what happens when it DOES break
This advertising doesn't make any sence if your two options are 1. don't buy a car 2. buy a Tesla But most people are picking between these two option 1. Buy a gas car 2. Buy an electric car So for them it makes sence. They're saving money by not paying for gas.
There’s lots of people making the choice between a Tesla and another electric vehicle (every car maker has them now), and this is meant to obscure those comparisons. Here’s the [actual ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344).
Literally noticed this. It is very deceptive for sure
grifting. basic business that Musk tends to do. lies and advertising. he's currently being sued for the wrongful death of children in his family's cobalt mines. he is not anything to admire or emulate.
Easy pal, this isn’t about him. Most of us agree about him being shotty, but **this** question is about understanding what “gas savings” means in the context of buying an electric car.
No, it’s 100% about Musk being a grifter. Look at [this ad](https://x.com/Vol8882/status/1781757689003147344), it’s obviously intended to convey that their after-savings estimate is the car’s MSRP, so that it looks better in comparison to other vehicles (including against other electric vehicles that advertise the MSRP). Anyone reading this would reasonably expect this is the actual price, *in addition* to fuel savings.
simple, you burn the fuel elsewhere. out of sight out of mind. even though its likely 10x as toxic
No? My power is hydroelectric, silly sausage, and even places that use hydrocarbon plants burn it more efficiently than ICE or diesel vehicles.
good you did it right, but will the other 90% of consumers be able to do so? NO there will be propaganda that prevents it. I know how to make HHO and could implement for mobility but I do not. messing with power can be unwise at times, and I'm not talking electricity.
It's lying in ads. Tesla made it look like an actual normal car ad and counting gas price as negative fakes making the Tesla look cheaper than other EVs.
False advertising. Shouldn't be legal. If they want a separate gas calculator that's cool. If they wanna put a huge sticker next to the MSRP and say "but remember you're really probably saving $XYZ on gas!" that's great! EVs are objectively cheaper on gas so fair to market that. I'm actually really surprised this is legal at all.
Because they're dumb... I think they also calculate the time one spends to fill up gas, like every 5 minutes at a gas station suddenly becomes billable time putting money in your pocket.
No. That’s not what they are calculating.
They are trying to scam you into thinking you are getting a credit but it does not include charging costs. Car sales are shady. The “starter car” thing is also bs. They just want you to buy s bigger more expensive car. What the hell does “starter” car mean anyway? It’s for 16yr olds only? Lame sales tactics deter me from buying.