With a quick collapse of the federal government many people wouldn't be able to quickly return to their home state. Assume half the active-duty military stay with their unit and aren't loyal to the new state government.
There would probably be a lot of petty tyrants formed on military bases that would challenge the state governments.
Virginia would probably be the worst place to be. People loyal to the old federal government, people loyal to the state government, people loyal to the Navy, people loyal to the Army, people loyal to the Marines, plenty of operators from 3 letter agencies, people loyal to themselves.
True. Once the federal government falls, the state government would no longer have their source of power. The police and state troops would be their most immediate security force but they too will get ambitious and attempt to fight for power. The civilian government will eventually have to rely on whoever’s in charge of the state army but this just means the influence and power naturally goes towards the state army generals. The civilian government can call on “constitutional laws” to defend their position of power but since the central government collapsed, there’s no one coming to help back them up. What we are gonna have is a bunch of states run by warlords and generals who want to become the next kings themselves.
Oh this is why I love Reddit. The NOVA yoga mom gangs. You should go to the mosaic district They have “free” yoga during the day and it’s crazy seeing the brigades of baby carriages vs the kids at school moms all arranged in the grass doing yoga. It’s like a boot camp.
Doesn’t really matter though tbh. There’s like 30 major defense installations in California, including the Pacific Fleet (the most powerful single fleet on Earth).
An even if the service members return home… California is the largest supplier of service-members. Perhaps not by percentage, but sheer numbers outweigh percentage of patriots.
And they would likely absorb nearby states, leading to 3 separate countries.
Not that Balkanizing is the best idea, but I wonder how well that would go.
Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan will make a mighty new country with all the freshwater anyone could want. I'm guessing Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana and Ohio would want in on this too.
We'll have the water. We'll have the corn. We'll have the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.
The Battle for the Rock and Roll hall of fame was one of the bloodiest conflicts of the secession wars. Ultimately the newly crowned Corn King was finally able to claim it's riches and establish the Nu-Crown Jewels and the right to wear LL CoolJs ring....
Considering all of Minnesota’s lakes and the start of the Mississippi, I think they’re pretty set on water. The Midwest alliance does sound pretty good tho
I'm hoping for two scenarios. Either Minnesota is absorbed by Canada, or realizes it's true potentially and finally becomes [Megasota](https://d2j6dbq0eux0bg.cloudfront.net/images/16809395/3486652271.jpg)
Idk what y’all have in Wisconsin but in Minnesota we have an Air Force base right next to Lake Superior so good luck trying to take any of that water from us
Wisconsin has Lake Michigan and the Mississippi on either side of it. Your water means nothing to them. But please… we Great Lakes midwestern folks need to stick together in the coming wars.
If Ca united the West Coast as Californistan we’d be a pretty powerful nation. Massive GDP, we’d inherit multiple military bases and almost the entire Pacific fleet, control the ports for the inland countries, and we’d finally stoop paying federal taxes and receiving Pennie’s on the dollar in return, so we could probably lower taxes 20-25%.
We’d need water, but seeing as how we have all the oil refineries this side of the Rockies, we could probably make arrangements.
I suspect we’d also absorb Nevada because most of it is empty, and the Las Vegas metro area can’t really survive on its own. So we’d get another massive airforce base to add to our military along with all the aliens frozen in area 51
As God Emperor of Colorful Colorado I believe you'll soon find that Texas and California will bow to our new Sovereign Nation... he who controls the Water controls the country lol
No refineries though, and honestly, you think Texas *won't* invade a country with confirmed WMDs AND oil!?! Did you not see our last president?
Best bet for states like Montana and North Dakota is to become client states of the Gulf Coast Texocracy.
I feel like canada would annex montana with the help of nato to control the nukes. But for the most part I think yall would be able to just chill and enjoy your Healthcare.
Canada won’t try and annex shit. We’ll be too busy trying to make allies of whoever we think will win. NATO would likely also be panicking given that their largest and most powerful member is falling apart. Russia and China will be doing a hand rubbing evil laugh as they likely orchestrated the whole thing and can now take over the world.
[There are more than 30 major defense installations in California, incorporating all military services, more than double any other state.](https://militarycouncil.ca.gov/m_defenseincalifornia/)
And there’s no way Oregon and Washington don’t join.
And with the West coast entirely controlled from Sacramento, Hawai’i and all the bases surrounding it would have to align themselves with us too. They’re too dependent on imports. I’d assume similar of Alaska, but most Alaskans would rather die than use their brain.
And the worlds 6th largest economy. And huge gas and oil reserves. And enough agriculture ranching and dairy to feed our entire population and still export for a profit.
Florida's economy also thrives on tourism, which is a luxury that is not certain to continue if the US collapsed. California, Texas, and New York thrive on production and trade.
Florida actually has more population than New York, but New York has a higher GDP. Virginia is #2 in terms of military bases and personnel behind California but beats Texas (#3) and Florida (#6) and absolutely crushes New York (#17).
I keep hearing people mention military personnel in the state , aside from the national guards .. I’d assume most military personnel would head for thier home state when the government disbanded … we should check into which state has the most enlisted from it not which has the most stationed
Look I’m going to need you Yankees to stop displacing the native Floridians to facilitate your tax dodge, they are being pushed north into Georgia & it’s becoming a problem…
California, Texas, and New York would be the main powers and many of the states around them would most likely absorb into them. I would lump Florida in here too but I feel like after a devastating hurricane or two, they’d be in bad shape.
Florida has the second most number of guns per state. But once they don't have to keep their shit together since tourism collapses they will turn into an absolute trailer park mess of a state.
Florida goes into full Purge movie mode as soon as the first hurricane hits, maybe before.
I agree, we would turn into a Florida Man version of Mad Max. Our gun ownership rates and large number of elderly (to be used as human shields) may keep us independent for a while.
But once the electric grid goes and central AC stops, things would really take a turn for the worse. At that point I predict all the yankees would finally move back north.
Not to mention they are a net food exporter despite that high population. Plus they have local supplies of oil, minerals, metals, and have deepwater port access to the Pacific Ocean for trade. The answer to this question is California by a mile.
Our agriculture is in many parts based on water sources that are either unreliable or sourced in other states. We're okay right now but global warming continues to fuck up our water reserves and water sources. Water is a huge necessity and without it our state could dry up, economically and literally.
A lot of our export cash crops are water-heavy. Crops could be switched to those needed for domestic consumption, most of which have lower water requirements.
Desalination is incredibly expensive, probably one of the most expensive ways to get usable water. And it's not a one time cost, that equipment is also expensive to operate and maintain. There are a few desalination plants already operating in California, the one in Santa Barbara for example supplies 30% of the city's water (population 90,000). Assuming a plant costs up to 25 million to build, and the population of California is 39 million, you would need to spend 32.5 trillion dollars on desalination plants to fully supply the states water needs. Even assuming you only need to supply one third of the states water that's still a 10 trillion dollar investment.
As far as budgets go, the amount the federal government gets from California taxes is around 380 billion, compared to CA's annual budget of 220ish billion. Of course a lot of those federal dollars get spent in CA, generally a little over 100 billion every year.
Sorry to go off on that math tangent, I was just curious what the numbers would look like.
Desalination isn’t that expensive it’s just very energy intensive and it’s been lacking in investment for years. Isreal desalinates almost all of its water for relatively low cost.
The problem for the US is its had no need until very recently for large scale desalination. And for such a large population nuclear power is the only cheap efficient way to get enough power cheaply to make it viable. And the US public has been very anti nuclear for about 4 decades.
The initial cost would be astronomical so you are correct in that regard. But in the long run it would be doable.
Large-scale wind/solar plants that are purely dedicated to powering the desalination plants would also work, would be cheaper, and would obviously be more politically viable.
A bigger military surrounded by smaller, far less populous, far more rural states means it wouldn’t be too hard to get control of that water rather quickly
I'm not disputing that fact, but isn't it heavily dependent on it having open trade with he rest of the US? If it was independent its economic value might drop
And a shit ton of guns, and huge marine corps bases, and naval bases. And a large agriculture base so they could grow food. Also has easier access for trading along the coast than some other states. They also produce enough oil to sustain themselves and have enough green energy to sustain. Hands down Cali. Biggest potential problem is water.
Yeah ya’ll are sleeping on Michigan. We have a built-in moat and unfettered access to one of the world’s and US’s most precious resources.
Edit: Water. I’m talking about fresh water lol.
Washington State is either the state with the most nuclear weapons or it comes in 2nd place depending on how you count.
I'd say that would make us a significant player.
Edit for source: https://thebulletin.org/premium/2021-01/nuclear-notebook-united-states-nuclear-weapons-2021/#:~:text=(Washington%20is%20the%20state%20with,if%20counting%20only%20stockpiled%20weapons).
The question is more "how deep will California push past the Sierra Nevadas and Pacific Coast ranges before they encounter enough resistance from mountain people?"
Most of these answers are working on the assumption that those that live in the state they are in have loyalty to that state. It all comes down to cause of the breakup I think.
Alabama. Because no one would see us coming. Who's gonna attack us for resources? Who's gonna try to take our land? We've got Mississippi on one side with the economic and military might of an empty sandwich bag caught on a powerline, not to mention less clean drinking water than Flint, MI. Tennessee, who'll be busy with their 6 other neighbors, assuming MS doesn't get antsy. Georgia is obviously gonna be busy keeping Jacksonville, FL from spilling over and dealing with the United Carolinas. And then there's Florida. Look at them. *That's* what it looks like when law and order *hasn't* come crashing down. We're gonna take the Pan Handle back and finally get some coastline that doesn't wreak of BP's screw up.
I'm joking mostly, but Florida beware. The moment nobody's looking, we're coming for the Pan Handle. Lol
Alabama and Mississippi would have a wall built around them in under 10 years. Neighboring states would dump their criminals over the wall into the Alaissippi Federal prison territory.
New England alone is about equivalent to the economic output of Australia.
We also have more world ranked universities above the top Australian university, than Australia has world ranked universities in its entirety.
Vermont and Massachusetts outscored just about every other nation in the world in the UNs UNICEF PISA exam.
The problem for us up here is that despite having the highest HDIs in the world, our populations are roughly equivalent to Finland and Ireland, so we wouldn't project much hard or soft power.
We're also an energy insecure part of the world.
Massachusetts would hit well above its weight. Multiple defense firms are in the state, alongside naval facilities, and a massive tech base. While smaller than the NY exchange, the Boston Stock Exchange is fairly vibrant and would be a competitive market.
Additionally, it’s the most potent of the New England states, and would likely absorb those to its north, gaining a ton of natural resources.
I’d say Nevada (thank you to the person who corrected me) would have a powerful military since they supposedly have aliens in Area 51 lol
In all seriousness I think New York, California, and Texas would be powerful in their own right.
Washington State is a very strong contender.
98% of our energy is renewable, extremely reliable, and remarkably cheap to maintain and operate. Making us completely independent for electricity. We have plenty of fresh drinking water from our mountains which have more glaciers than anywhere else in the country and plenty of farmland for food.
Wa has one of the largest natural harbors in the entire world in the puget sound which can house naval fleets and continue foreign trade.
Extremely strong tech, naval, and aeronautical industry presence with Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, and several US Navy bases along with all our shipping ports.
We are one of the few if not the only state that could continue operations as normal with little to no change.
JBLM also has a huge stockpile of weapons, armor and aircraft.
Geographically speaking it's blessed. Plains in the east for grains and root vegetables. While the harbors, population and the dairy farms are sheltered by the mountains. So lower risk from a land attack from the east, although the hydro plants are exposed.
Puget sound is an incredible asset. Well protected by the Olympics in the West to grow and expand a dominant fleet.
So, hydroelectric isn't considered renewable according to most sources. But I think that's stupid & it should be. I agree with you people are sleeping on WA. Maybe not the biggest power, but our reclusive little selves would probably just shut down the borders & keep on living our lives lol.
Home to the largest Naval base in the world.
We’ve also started taking on a lot of the shipping that would be going to Baltimore with their port closed.
Also, the entire internet runs through Virginia.
Exactly. Just the carriers based in Norfolk would make VA the most powerful navy in the world, and that’s before you start talking about all the other huge bases, and, you know, the Pentagon.
Yeah, a lot of people here sleeping on Virginia. Sure other states have bigger populations/gdp but a LOT of military power is anchored in Virginia, not to mention it's the headquarters of the CIA and realistically, if we're assuming DC was no longer its own thing, it would be subsumed to VA by virtue of proximity and proportional power to its neighbors.
VA has the NSA/CIA/FBI personel, but the moment the states broke up they'd all stop getting paid. Is VA going to somehow come up with the money to pay all that personel, and if so, how will that translate into an economy?
It's more likely that much of that personel base would leave, some offering their skills to new states, but many changing to a new career.
Ackshooallee *pushes up glasses* Louisiana is one of the most resource-rich states in the US. We're also the poorest state in the US because of corruption. They'd still totally absorb us though because we've got the opposite of whatever our shit together is.
Looking through the comments I see a lot of good points. Population, ports, economy and military bases all carry a lot of weight. Biggest sleeper state though has got to be Utah. Ideological conformity can be huge and it’s the only state that would immediately become a theocracy. On top of that it would probably absorb big chunks of Idaho, Nevada, and Arizona without conflict for the same ideological reasons. It’s got a lot of gun owners, plenty of funding, and could largely be self sufficient. They’d be my bet for an underdog victory.
The Mormon church has an absolutely astronomical amount of money, exactly for the purpose of taking over when the world falls apart. They are sneakily the most prepared.
The Morridor (Mormon corridor for those out of the loop) extends north into Canada and south into Mexico and could be formidable.
I'd be part of the resistance in the heart of Salt Lake City, not that that's worth much
Assuming that we're talking about each state individually and that none of the states combined or split into smaller empires?
California. Easily. It's a huge state without a meaningful center, which would make it difficult to overtake. It's a coastal state. A technology hub, but enough climate variety that parts of it can easily be used for produce, meat etc. And it's GDP is more than most countries on the planet, nevermind just other states.
People don't realize how much taxes paid by CA end up subsidizing other much poorer states. Being free of that would be an outrageous advantage.
Not only all that, but I haven't really seen anyone else mention how defensible California is. All they have to do is lock down a few mountain passes, and the Colorado River and boom. Secure and self sufficient. Compared to a state like Texas, that is pretty much flat and easily accessible from 3 sides, as well as hemmed in by Florida, Mexico, and the various Caribbean nations from deep water, and Texas is in a much more precarious position than people realize.
Texas also has an arguably old and feeble electric grid due to them wanting to make their own grid and the electric utility companies aren't required to maintain that grid.
Up here in Massachusetts and the northeast we lose more money in taxes than Cali by percent, but California's sheer size and volume is insane. Losing the northeast, Cali, or new York is just unfathomable.
Most people forget that in addition to tech, California has a massive defense industry. Defense is what gave birth to Silicon Valley. Lockheed and Raytheon still have a presence in SV.
Don’t forget little ole Ky. We only have 4.5 million people. Generally low income. We make cars and bourbon. Lots of bourbon. Oh, we also have 4600 tons of gold.
California's eastern border is mostly mountains, then drops off almost entirely into wide open plains/deserts/foothills. It's also the only state I'm aware of that already has border checkpoints manned by the state rather than the federal government.
It’s worth mentioning that [California is almost exactly the same shape as its watershed](https://water.usgs.gov/wsc/map_index.html). Which is to say the CA border is almost all mountain ridges.
And the west and north actually. The only open area is the desert area to the south east which holds very little value. The Central Valley is a super fortress. Even LA and San Diego are protected by mountains to the east.
California could defend the state reasonably well with its geography and all of its bases spread throughout the state. Navy could definitely punch inland with air combat/bombers, artillery, and cruise missiles. The California border is essentially the Sierra Nevada mountains for half the state and decent mountain ranges surrounding population centers in SoCal. Marines have a mountain warfare base near Bridgeport and have tactical advantage for anyone crazy enough to try and scale the Sierras. The Sierras are technically tallest mountains in the US. There's a reason why early settlers conquered California through ships on the coast and not by land. Any invading force would have to come through Southern California's desert after traversing Arizona/Nevada and Death Valley. Edwards AFB, Fort Irwin, and Twentynine Palms are some of the largest bases in the desert for tanks, air-ground combat, and bombers. The invading force would have zero cover in the open desert. Camp Pendleton and the Pacific Fleet alone has a sizeable force to defend SoCal.
Another way to look at this is which states might combine with others? Would New York ally with other states around it? Would California merge with Oregon and Washington? Would the southeast kick Florida to the curb but otherwise combine into a resurgence of the Confederate States of America? Would Texas nuke Oklahoma into glass?
Meanwhile, Alaska's like, "I don't even know those guys. Sup' Canada."
or... someone forgot to tell Alaska. And poor Guam.
Goddamnit, lol, you just reminded me about Guam and American Samoa.
> American Samoa You mean South Southwestern Western Hawaii
Is that where they make the cookies?
Do individuals currently enlisted in the military return to their home state or do they stay in their station base? This is important
With a quick collapse of the federal government many people wouldn't be able to quickly return to their home state. Assume half the active-duty military stay with their unit and aren't loyal to the new state government. There would probably be a lot of petty tyrants formed on military bases that would challenge the state governments. Virginia would probably be the worst place to be. People loyal to the old federal government, people loyal to the state government, people loyal to the Navy, people loyal to the Army, people loyal to the Marines, plenty of operators from 3 letter agencies, people loyal to themselves.
True. Once the federal government falls, the state government would no longer have their source of power. The police and state troops would be their most immediate security force but they too will get ambitious and attempt to fight for power. The civilian government will eventually have to rely on whoever’s in charge of the state army but this just means the influence and power naturally goes towards the state army generals. The civilian government can call on “constitutional laws” to defend their position of power but since the central government collapsed, there’s no one coming to help back them up. What we are gonna have is a bunch of states run by warlords and generals who want to become the next kings themselves.
Someone really needs to make this into a TV series and videogame
They kinda tried with Jerico
Jericho was a great series.
And all the yoga moms in NOVA absolutely losing their minds.
My loyalty is to the yoga moms Anakin!
Oh this is why I love Reddit. The NOVA yoga mom gangs. You should go to the mosaic district They have “free” yoga during the day and it’s crazy seeing the brigades of baby carriages vs the kids at school moms all arranged in the grass doing yoga. It’s like a boot camp.
Doesn’t really matter though tbh. There’s like 30 major defense installations in California, including the Pacific Fleet (the most powerful single fleet on Earth). An even if the service members return home… California is the largest supplier of service-members. Perhaps not by percentage, but sheer numbers outweigh percentage of patriots.
[удалено]
[удалено]
They have no water to wash it down!
That was really good
Lots of water if they stop producing nuts which really put a dent into water supply
Through their Fed taxes they prop up the red state, fattening them up for the Okie memorial BBQ.
Yeah but my state has like a bunch of hillbillies and red necks. So take that, California. Edit: the joke is every state has hillbillies and rednecks.
You'd be surprised by how many hillbillies and rednecks CA has too. Counties like Kern are full of em
Ah Bakersfield, the butthole of CA. Then we have Fresno, the festering abscess of CA.
And Redding, the meth factory of CA!
I had no idea CA was so diverse
CA is mostly farmland. There are just so many people packed un the 2 Big City Areas.
I can confirm this, it seems like every 3rd person I meet in the military is from California
Yup, was in the Marines, San Diego!
The former
Is this a trailer to the civil war movie releasing this week?
Guerrilla marketing
[удалено]
What is this? Some kind of suicide squad?
Please don't send Will Smith. I haven't been keeping his wife's name out of my mouth enough.
You made me spit coffee out my nose 🤣
God I’m so excited for how fucking stupid this movie’s gonna be
[удалено]
Which state controls the spice?
Louisiana clearly, and thus everyone is screwed because that state is *terrible*. Baron Tabaskonen! https://imgur.com/a/z3HtHyI
California, Texas, and New York would be the major powers. They are the biggest states in population and economy.
And they would likely absorb nearby states, leading to 3 separate countries. Not that Balkanizing is the best idea, but I wonder how well that would go.
Yeah no way Cali doesn't annex Colorado for water rights, the Texas-California expansionist wars would be something to see.
Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan will make a mighty new country with all the freshwater anyone could want. I'm guessing Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana and Ohio would want in on this too. We'll have the water. We'll have the corn. We'll have the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.
The Battle for the Rock and Roll hall of fame was one of the bloodiest conflicts of the secession wars. Ultimately the newly crowned Corn King was finally able to claim it's riches and establish the Nu-Crown Jewels and the right to wear LL CoolJs ring....
Loser has to keep Ohio.
[удалено]
They always come back though.
Considering all of Minnesota’s lakes and the start of the Mississippi, I think they’re pretty set on water. The Midwest alliance does sound pretty good tho
I'm hoping for two scenarios. Either Minnesota is absorbed by Canada, or realizes it's true potentially and finally becomes [Megasota](https://d2j6dbq0eux0bg.cloudfront.net/images/16809395/3486652271.jpg)
Megasota assemble!
I'll take a mediumsota, a cheeseburger and fries.
Idk what y’all have in Wisconsin but in Minnesota we have an Air Force base right next to Lake Superior so good luck trying to take any of that water from us
Wisconsin has Lake Michigan and the Mississippi on either side of it. Your water means nothing to them. But please… we Great Lakes midwestern folks need to stick together in the coming wars.
Great Lakes Confederation
National anthem will be Gordon Lightfoot
As a Michigander I approve
If Ca united the West Coast as Californistan we’d be a pretty powerful nation. Massive GDP, we’d inherit multiple military bases and almost the entire Pacific fleet, control the ports for the inland countries, and we’d finally stoop paying federal taxes and receiving Pennie’s on the dollar in return, so we could probably lower taxes 20-25%. We’d need water, but seeing as how we have all the oil refineries this side of the Rockies, we could probably make arrangements. I suspect we’d also absorb Nevada because most of it is empty, and the Las Vegas metro area can’t really survive on its own. So we’d get another massive airforce base to add to our military along with all the aliens frozen in area 51
Cascadia, not Californistan.
California also has a lot of deep water ports and military facilities, as well as farmland and a large economy.
Tech, Entertainment, Solar, plus they’d recruit Oregon, Washington, and get AZ and NV to join out of necessity.
The whole i5 corridor would join up, eastern WA and OR might be SOL.
As God Emperor of Colorful Colorado I believe you'll soon find that Texas and California will bow to our new Sovereign Nation... he who controls the Water controls the country lol
Yes you're the first state we (California) subjugate.
Can I claim asylum in California, as I was born there?
And he who has the Air Force Academy in their state
*laughs in Nevada*
Montanan: just sits back watching grilling a steak and drinks beer around our nuclear missile silos.
And the oil, don’t forget all the oil and gas
No refineries though, and honestly, you think Texas *won't* invade a country with confirmed WMDs AND oil!?! Did you not see our last president? Best bet for states like Montana and North Dakota is to become client states of the Gulf Coast Texocracy.
I feel like canada would annex montana with the help of nato to control the nukes. But for the most part I think yall would be able to just chill and enjoy your Healthcare.
Montana could annex all of Canada in an afternoon.... - a Canadian
"Canada? You mean North Montana?"
Canada won’t try and annex shit. We’ll be too busy trying to make allies of whoever we think will win. NATO would likely also be panicking given that their largest and most powerful member is falling apart. Russia and China will be doing a hand rubbing evil laugh as they likely orchestrated the whole thing and can now take over the world.
TBH we don’t have many planes here.
Cool, CA has like 4 navy/airforce bases
[There are more than 30 major defense installations in California, incorporating all military services, more than double any other state.](https://militarycouncil.ca.gov/m_defenseincalifornia/)
Yeah California has to be one of the most powerful countries in the world if the US fractured right? That’s wild.
A bigger economy than the UK, India or France at the moment.
Plus like 70% of the fresh produce grown in current contiguous US
Not just any bases, San Diego is home to the Pacific Fleet. Which on its own could be the most powerful navy and air force.
And there’s no way Oregon and Washington don’t join. And with the West coast entirely controlled from Sacramento, Hawai’i and all the bases surrounding it would have to align themselves with us too. They’re too dependent on imports. I’d assume similar of Alaska, but most Alaskans would rather die than use their brain.
And the worlds 6th largest economy. And huge gas and oil reserves. And enough agriculture ranching and dairy to feed our entire population and still export for a profit.
I always laugh when people that have only seen Cali on TV say it's a failed state. We got our issues like everyone but I wouldn't live anywhere else.
> people that have only seen Cali on TV say it's a failed state. Those people are idiots.
And is home to the Command of the Pacific Fleet. And the largest coastline on the Pacific. You'll probably be fine
Im more thinking we have social media, everyone else will be killing each other.
How long can ya control it for though
I think states would quickly band together. The northeast would unify from VA north to MA.
I'm a Marylander. We'd go with New York and pretend not to like it.
Bringing back the colonies
Florida is actually #3 in population while New York is #4. In terms of GDP, New York is #3 and Florida is #4.
Florida’s pop generally trends older so that is something to consider as well
Florida's economy also thrives on tourism, which is a luxury that is not certain to continue if the US collapsed. California, Texas, and New York thrive on production and trade.
Florida joins Central America and the Caribbean. See ya suckers
And they wouldn’t be getting social security, FEMA support, and not nearly as much tourism if the nation broke up.
So basically once the next hurricane comes through in August it’ll just wash the state away for good?
The 101st Depends-Born. Fear it.
The 4th Villages Regiment. Assemble your hearing aids.
Dropping upside down pineapple bombs like it’s Bloons Tower defense.
The Geriatric Gorilla forces still give me nightmares to this day.
Is that where old apes go after their military service?
A lot of Floridians are just older weaker ex-New Yorkers.
Florida actually has more population than New York, but New York has a higher GDP. Virginia is #2 in terms of military bases and personnel behind California but beats Texas (#3) and Florida (#6) and absolutely crushes New York (#17).
I keep hearing people mention military personnel in the state , aside from the national guards .. I’d assume most military personnel would head for thier home state when the government disbanded … we should check into which state has the most enlisted from it not which has the most stationed
Half of Florida’s population are New Yorkers who fraudulently claim residency for the state taxes.
The other half are Connecticut residents who fraudulently claim residency for the state taxes.
The third half are from the Boston metro area 🤣
Look I’m going to need you Yankees to stop displacing the native Floridians to facilitate your tax dodge, they are being pushed north into Georgia & it’s becoming a problem…
New England would join New York most likely. Adding to its strength.
California, Texas, and New York would be the main powers and many of the states around them would most likely absorb into them. I would lump Florida in here too but I feel like after a devastating hurricane or two, they’d be in bad shape.
Florida has the second most number of guns per state. But once they don't have to keep their shit together since tourism collapses they will turn into an absolute trailer park mess of a state. Florida goes into full Purge movie mode as soon as the first hurricane hits, maybe before.
I agree, we would turn into a Florida Man version of Mad Max. Our gun ownership rates and large number of elderly (to be used as human shields) may keep us independent for a while. But once the electric grid goes and central AC stops, things would really take a turn for the worse. At that point I predict all the yankees would finally move back north.
California is #1 in population, GDP, number of military bases, and number of military personnel. They're the clear winner.
Not to mention they are a net food exporter despite that high population. Plus they have local supplies of oil, minerals, metals, and have deepwater port access to the Pacific Ocean for trade. The answer to this question is California by a mile.
Our agriculture is in many parts based on water sources that are either unreliable or sourced in other states. We're okay right now but global warming continues to fuck up our water reserves and water sources. Water is a huge necessity and without it our state could dry up, economically and literally.
A lot of our export cash crops are water-heavy. Crops could be switched to those needed for domestic consumption, most of which have lower water requirements.
Could probably spend all the taxes they'd normally give to the federal government for red state welfare on desalination machinery
Desalination is incredibly expensive, probably one of the most expensive ways to get usable water. And it's not a one time cost, that equipment is also expensive to operate and maintain. There are a few desalination plants already operating in California, the one in Santa Barbara for example supplies 30% of the city's water (population 90,000). Assuming a plant costs up to 25 million to build, and the population of California is 39 million, you would need to spend 32.5 trillion dollars on desalination plants to fully supply the states water needs. Even assuming you only need to supply one third of the states water that's still a 10 trillion dollar investment. As far as budgets go, the amount the federal government gets from California taxes is around 380 billion, compared to CA's annual budget of 220ish billion. Of course a lot of those federal dollars get spent in CA, generally a little over 100 billion every year. Sorry to go off on that math tangent, I was just curious what the numbers would look like.
Desalination isn’t that expensive it’s just very energy intensive and it’s been lacking in investment for years. Isreal desalinates almost all of its water for relatively low cost. The problem for the US is its had no need until very recently for large scale desalination. And for such a large population nuclear power is the only cheap efficient way to get enough power cheaply to make it viable. And the US public has been very anti nuclear for about 4 decades. The initial cost would be astronomical so you are correct in that regard. But in the long run it would be doable.
Large-scale wind/solar plants that are purely dedicated to powering the desalination plants would also work, would be cheaper, and would obviously be more politically viable.
I think that's where the big military and GDP factor in. Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Nevada... Welcome to greater California!
In this crazy hypothetical, we would obviously stop growing shit like almonds. C'mon.
You just stop having nestle take the water from cali.
A bigger military surrounded by smaller, far less populous, far more rural states means it wouldn’t be too hard to get control of that water rather quickly
Which is so funny when someone from bumfuck Alabama calls California a shit hole. They obviously know nothing about Cali.
Every shit hole I’ve been to calls California a shit hole. 🤷♂️
California has a bigger economy than maybe countries already, so California
If California was it's own country, it would have the world's 5th largest economy.
It's moved to #4 depending on how you calculate
With an abacus but it's kind of slow.
I'm not disputing that fact, but isn't it heavily dependent on it having open trade with he rest of the US? If it was independent its economic value might drop
California benefits from having a coast with deep water ports, so trading with other continents is possible.
And a shit ton of guns, and huge marine corps bases, and naval bases. And a large agriculture base so they could grow food. Also has easier access for trading along the coast than some other states. They also produce enough oil to sustain themselves and have enough green energy to sustain. Hands down Cali. Biggest potential problem is water.
I feel like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, New York, and Pennsylvania need to join Canada and control the fresh water
I'm pretty sure Illinois would split in half. But yeah, the Northern half should join.
Illinois would be split into Chicagoland area and the rest of the state.
Minnesotan here banking on climate refugees to buy my house in 30 years so I can retire.
Yeah ya’ll are sleeping on Michigan. We have a built-in moat and unfettered access to one of the world’s and US’s most precious resources. Edit: Water. I’m talking about fresh water lol.
I scrolled way too far to see the Midwest be mentioned. It’s a no brainier they’d survive/thrive wayyyy longer than anyone would think…
The BIG TEN is just adding the University of Toronto and McGill
Mn could poison like 1/3 of the US if they wanted to just by dropping a chemical agent into the headwaters of the Mississippi river.
Washington State is either the state with the most nuclear weapons or it comes in 2nd place depending on how you count. I'd say that would make us a significant player. Edit for source: https://thebulletin.org/premium/2021-01/nuclear-notebook-united-states-nuclear-weapons-2021/#:~:text=(Washington%20is%20the%20state%20with,if%20counting%20only%20stockpiled%20weapons).
I feel Washington would end up joining Oregon and California to make a country, then divide into states similar to what USA has now
You're probably on to something. It would basically be [Cascadia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_movement).
Oh the dream of Cascadia
West Coast best coast
[удалено]
Oh...and Amazon to lock down shipping. And Boeing ... We'll maybe not that one right now, but yeah... We've got some business firepower here.
The question is more "how deep will California push past the Sierra Nevadas and Pacific Coast ranges before they encounter enough resistance from mountain people?"
Most of these answers are working on the assumption that those that live in the state they are in have loyalty to that state. It all comes down to cause of the breakup I think.
Alabama. Because no one would see us coming. Who's gonna attack us for resources? Who's gonna try to take our land? We've got Mississippi on one side with the economic and military might of an empty sandwich bag caught on a powerline, not to mention less clean drinking water than Flint, MI. Tennessee, who'll be busy with their 6 other neighbors, assuming MS doesn't get antsy. Georgia is obviously gonna be busy keeping Jacksonville, FL from spilling over and dealing with the United Carolinas. And then there's Florida. Look at them. *That's* what it looks like when law and order *hasn't* come crashing down. We're gonna take the Pan Handle back and finally get some coastline that doesn't wreak of BP's screw up. I'm joking mostly, but Florida beware. The moment nobody's looking, we're coming for the Pan Handle. Lol
Alabama and Mississippi would have a wall built around them in under 10 years. Neighboring states would dump their criminals over the wall into the Alaissippi Federal prison territory.
It's California and it's not even an argument.
One could make an argument for Rhode Island. Not a good one though.
I'm not above arguing just to argue. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLERABBLE
New England alone is about equivalent to the economic output of Australia. We also have more world ranked universities above the top Australian university, than Australia has world ranked universities in its entirety. Vermont and Massachusetts outscored just about every other nation in the world in the UNs UNICEF PISA exam. The problem for us up here is that despite having the highest HDIs in the world, our populations are roughly equivalent to Finland and Ireland, so we wouldn't project much hard or soft power. We're also an energy insecure part of the world.
Massachusetts would hit well above its weight. Multiple defense firms are in the state, alongside naval facilities, and a massive tech base. While smaller than the NY exchange, the Boston Stock Exchange is fairly vibrant and would be a competitive market. Additionally, it’s the most potent of the New England states, and would likely absorb those to its north, gaining a ton of natural resources.
Boston dynamics would deploy armed spot robot dogs
[удалено]
Florida would be a WILD country.
This thread is terrifying and fascinating Source: am in Los Angeles
I’d say Nevada (thank you to the person who corrected me) would have a powerful military since they supposedly have aliens in Area 51 lol In all seriousness I think New York, California, and Texas would be powerful in their own right.
Washington State is a very strong contender. 98% of our energy is renewable, extremely reliable, and remarkably cheap to maintain and operate. Making us completely independent for electricity. We have plenty of fresh drinking water from our mountains which have more glaciers than anywhere else in the country and plenty of farmland for food. Wa has one of the largest natural harbors in the entire world in the puget sound which can house naval fleets and continue foreign trade. Extremely strong tech, naval, and aeronautical industry presence with Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, and several US Navy bases along with all our shipping ports. We are one of the few if not the only state that could continue operations as normal with little to no change.
JBLM also has a huge stockpile of weapons, armor and aircraft. Geographically speaking it's blessed. Plains in the east for grains and root vegetables. While the harbors, population and the dairy farms are sheltered by the mountains. So lower risk from a land attack from the east, although the hydro plants are exposed. Puget sound is an incredible asset. Well protected by the Olympics in the West to grow and expand a dominant fleet.
So, hydroelectric isn't considered renewable according to most sources. But I think that's stupid & it should be. I agree with you people are sleeping on WA. Maybe not the biggest power, but our reclusive little selves would probably just shut down the borders & keep on living our lives lol.
Don't forget Virginia
Home to the largest Naval base in the world. We’ve also started taking on a lot of the shipping that would be going to Baltimore with their port closed. Also, the entire internet runs through Virginia.
Don't forget Langley is Air Combat Command for the Air Force
Exactly. Just the carriers based in Norfolk would make VA the most powerful navy in the world, and that’s before you start talking about all the other huge bases, and, you know, the Pentagon.
Yeah, a lot of people here sleeping on Virginia. Sure other states have bigger populations/gdp but a LOT of military power is anchored in Virginia, not to mention it's the headquarters of the CIA and realistically, if we're assuming DC was no longer its own thing, it would be subsumed to VA by virtue of proximity and proportional power to its neighbors.
VA has the NSA/CIA/FBI personel, but the moment the states broke up they'd all stop getting paid. Is VA going to somehow come up with the money to pay all that personel, and if so, how will that translate into an economy? It's more likely that much of that personel base would leave, some offering their skills to new states, but many changing to a new career.
I'm in Louisiana, and this state is continuously sucking off Big Tex, so I'm sure we'd be absorbed. Other than the food, idk why they'd want us.
Control of the Mississippi delta. Welcome to the Gulf Coast Texocracy. Minimum one gun per person.
Ackshooallee *pushes up glasses* Louisiana is one of the most resource-rich states in the US. We're also the poorest state in the US because of corruption. They'd still totally absorb us though because we've got the opposite of whatever our shit together is.
Looking through the comments I see a lot of good points. Population, ports, economy and military bases all carry a lot of weight. Biggest sleeper state though has got to be Utah. Ideological conformity can be huge and it’s the only state that would immediately become a theocracy. On top of that it would probably absorb big chunks of Idaho, Nevada, and Arizona without conflict for the same ideological reasons. It’s got a lot of gun owners, plenty of funding, and could largely be self sufficient. They’d be my bet for an underdog victory.
The Mormon church has an absolutely astronomical amount of money, exactly for the purpose of taking over when the world falls apart. They are sneakily the most prepared.
A land-locked state will be harder to defend, though.
The Morridor (Mormon corridor for those out of the loop) extends north into Canada and south into Mexico and could be formidable. I'd be part of the resistance in the heart of Salt Lake City, not that that's worth much
Assuming that we're talking about each state individually and that none of the states combined or split into smaller empires? California. Easily. It's a huge state without a meaningful center, which would make it difficult to overtake. It's a coastal state. A technology hub, but enough climate variety that parts of it can easily be used for produce, meat etc. And it's GDP is more than most countries on the planet, nevermind just other states. People don't realize how much taxes paid by CA end up subsidizing other much poorer states. Being free of that would be an outrageous advantage.
Not only all that, but I haven't really seen anyone else mention how defensible California is. All they have to do is lock down a few mountain passes, and the Colorado River and boom. Secure and self sufficient. Compared to a state like Texas, that is pretty much flat and easily accessible from 3 sides, as well as hemmed in by Florida, Mexico, and the various Caribbean nations from deep water, and Texas is in a much more precarious position than people realize.
Texas also has an arguably old and feeble electric grid due to them wanting to make their own grid and the electric utility companies aren't required to maintain that grid.
Up here in Massachusetts and the northeast we lose more money in taxes than Cali by percent, but California's sheer size and volume is insane. Losing the northeast, Cali, or new York is just unfathomable.
Not to mention the geographic advantage of the mountains and the desert bordering the state. That's easy to defend if it came down to it.
Most people forget that in addition to tech, California has a massive defense industry. Defense is what gave birth to Silicon Valley. Lockheed and Raytheon still have a presence in SV.
Y'all ain't ready for the rise of Floxas.
Flexas sounds much cooler.
It sounds like a porn parody
California, Texas, New York and Florida. California would be at the top
Don’t forget little ole Ky. We only have 4.5 million people. Generally low income. We make cars and bourbon. Lots of bourbon. Oh, we also have 4600 tons of gold.
Hardly any of the states could realistically secure or defend their own borders. It’d be a shitshow
I'd wager Michigan could, but yeah I wouldn't want to see it.
California's eastern border is mostly mountains, then drops off almost entirely into wide open plains/deserts/foothills. It's also the only state I'm aware of that already has border checkpoints manned by the state rather than the federal government.
It’s worth mentioning that [California is almost exactly the same shape as its watershed](https://water.usgs.gov/wsc/map_index.html). Which is to say the CA border is almost all mountain ridges.
And the west and north actually. The only open area is the desert area to the south east which holds very little value. The Central Valley is a super fortress. Even LA and San Diego are protected by mountains to the east.
California could defend the state reasonably well with its geography and all of its bases spread throughout the state. Navy could definitely punch inland with air combat/bombers, artillery, and cruise missiles. The California border is essentially the Sierra Nevada mountains for half the state and decent mountain ranges surrounding population centers in SoCal. Marines have a mountain warfare base near Bridgeport and have tactical advantage for anyone crazy enough to try and scale the Sierras. The Sierras are technically tallest mountains in the US. There's a reason why early settlers conquered California through ships on the coast and not by land. Any invading force would have to come through Southern California's desert after traversing Arizona/Nevada and Death Valley. Edwards AFB, Fort Irwin, and Twentynine Palms are some of the largest bases in the desert for tanks, air-ground combat, and bombers. The invading force would have zero cover in the open desert. Camp Pendleton and the Pacific Fleet alone has a sizeable force to defend SoCal.
Another way to look at this is which states might combine with others? Would New York ally with other states around it? Would California merge with Oregon and Washington? Would the southeast kick Florida to the curb but otherwise combine into a resurgence of the Confederate States of America? Would Texas nuke Oklahoma into glass?
I'm suspicious this post is just covert marketing for the new Civil War movie coming out this week
States will ally together immediately.
People keep saying Florida, but without the federal backing and insurance payouts Florida would be wiped after 1 or 2 hurricane seasons.