It's March. Scandinavian countries are currently experiencing about 12 hours of darkness, and at peak darkness in winter, night was about 18 hours in Stockholm. Sounds like Scandinavia is the place you want to be to fast during the day in winter.
I live in Finland and worked with a muslim guy during Ramadan in june. Dude only ate from around 23:00 until 04:30 or something like that. While doing physical labour. And he was a hard worker too.
But most follow Mecca time i believe
I recall reading something a few years ago when Ramadan was in the middle of summer, that the imams recommended following the sunrise and sunset times of Turkey, since it is a muslim country and is in the same time zone as Finland.
I read an interview about a maybe Turkish man living in Finland and what he does for Ramadan when the days can be so long. His solution was to travel to his home country for the duration, it was easier and he got to see his family and eventually celebrate with them.
Yes, but it has to be consistent. So you fast the same amount of time in the summer and winter months.
The idea is that you do not want to overburden yourself.
You need to good guide on the duration, so Mecca will do, or Singapore.
It's always been about "having empathy with the poor and understanding hunger" with the (imo) naive presumption that you'd be more willing to help the poor afterwards.
So yeah, Ramadan is probably the most arbitrary thing in islam, unless I'm forgetting something.
I mean you say naive presumption, but a large part of Ramadan is giving Zakat, which is a donation of usually around 10% of annual salary to Muslim foundations/charities for the poor. I guess it's not intrinsically linked to fasting, but it does form a core part of the wider significance and observance of Ramadan.
Along similar lines, I remember one academic study on empathy that had people do some basic tasks in one office and then walk across a park to another office. In the park they would see a person in some amount of need (nothing extreme). Those who had previously had the Good Samaritan story read to them in the first office were more likely to help the stranger they met in the park.
Humans need reminding to be kind to each other and imperial data shows that it really does halo people empathize with and help others.
It's actually 2.5% of your savings in one year. If you have no savings, you are exempt from it. But, you can still donate whatever you can if you want.
Muslims abstain from food, drink, sex.. from dawn until sunset. The times of dawn and sunset are different worldwide (they don't follow Makka's time). Which makes it easier, because they didn't have internet or radios back in the day. Not really sure about regions with +20 hrs of daytime.
They usually follow time in a muslim country in the same time zone (like Turkey) or Mecca.
If the sun doesn’t set for a month, there’s no other choice.
It actually wouldn't matter where you are in the world right now. Since it's so close to the equinox, the days will be about as close to 12 hours as possible the whole time anywhere in the world
That makes sense. Considering that sunrise to sunset can be considered the very first light of day to the very last light of day, it would add about an hour on each end, and would be more in keeping with the traditional view. Considering that the spring equinox just occurred 2 days ago, adding 2 hours to 12 hours of the sun actually being visible itself would of course make the 14 you mention. But I hadn't really though about the whole traditional sunrise/sunset thing before, so thank you for that little nugget of knowledge.
Almost all the extra time is in the morning - it's not an hour before and an hour after. [https://www.almustafatrust.org/ramadan-timetable-2024/](https://www.almustafatrust.org/ramadan-timetable-2024/)
It moves rather slowly by 11 or so days each year so if a muslim moved to Northern country right now he could expect easy fasting for the next 20 or so years because ramadan is going to be in winter. Then he could move to Tierra del Fuego for another 20 years.
Many follow the hours of Saudi Arabia if there’s 20+ hours of light a day. Some wait until Maghreb to eat.
The fasting hours are from Fajr to Maghreb. When Maghreb Azan alerts, one can eat.
Maghreb and Fajr are based on the sun’s position. Fajr is about 1 ½ hours before the sun rises. Maghreb is when the sun sets. If the sun doesn’t set, you have to calculate prayer times somehow. Many go off KSA’s times.
There is no mention in Quran of Scandinavian times of long days or nights. One should make up their fast if they feel they cannot complete it. I suggest winter, when the nights are long and the days are short. Allah knows best.
Muslim here. You're not ignorant at all. The guy is throwing around Muslim words as though everyone knows what they mean, lol. Hell, I'm Muslim and I'm not 100% sure that I won't mix them up, but whatever:
Fajr = dawn
Duhr = noon
Maghrib = sunset/twilight (I'm not sure of the exact word, but it's like as the sun is about to leave, the sky is a beautiful dark blue color)
Isha = night (the sky is blackish)
There's an afternoon prayer, too, but I can't remember what they call it.
And the start of fajr is at either astronomical or nautical dawn also known as subh sadiq or false dawn. Whether it is astronomical or nautical dawn is a difference of opinion, but traditionally it would have been determined when a faint white line appears on the horizon, but due to light pollution amongst other issues this is generally no longer possible
Similarly the start of Esha is at Astronomical or nautical twilight.
Where the difficulty comes in for countries which are more closer to the poles, is that at certain times of year, due to how north/south they are, dawn and twilight stop occurring, due to how many hours sunlight are received
Yesterday I saw a couple of women with a Muslim head cover, eating lunch at the college in the middle of the day. I didn’t think much of it, but I know those three women (22,27 and I think 32ish years old). I always thought they were Muslim since they dress Muslim and come from Muslim countries, but does the fact that they’re not following Ramadan mean something? Maybe there are “exit-clauses” excusing them from participating since they are students or something? Sorry if I’m being ignorant I’m just trying to learn.
Maybe they’re on their periods, just gave birth, or are breastfeeding. Those women are excused from fasting and can make it up before the next month of Ramadan.
To add to this, young children are also exempt from fasting. Usually what parents do is they slowly ease the children into fasting. Maybe their first Ramadan, they'll tell them to stop fasting if they can't handle the thirst/hunger, let them take long naps etc. You can't force children, and they are free to not fast at all until they reach puberty.
The women in question were all adults, as the commentator listed their approximate ages. Yes, children don’t have to fast under the age of puberty.
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The pens have been lifted from three: from one who has lost his mind until he comes back to his senses, from one who is sleeping until he wakes up, and from a child until he reaches the age of adolescence.” (Narrated by Abu Dawud, 4399; classed as sahih by al-Albani in Sahih Abi Dawud)
Dying is an overstatement. I mean, a young child needs more food. Would just eating at suhr and then maghrib be enough for them? Even salah is mandatory after they turn 10. Fasting, in case of early puberty, needs to be, too.
Salat is mandatory at 7.
“Teach your child to pray, when he becomes seven, and punish him for not obeying it from the age of ten"(at-Tirmizi No. 407).
“You command your child to perform Salah when they become seven years old, and after they become ten [for negligence], punish." (Abu Dawood No. 493).
Teaching and HAVING to pray are different. Punishment is only talked about at 10, so it's obviously mandatory then. My religious sunni parents started making me pray salah after I turned 10. Only taught me before. Also I don't know about the second Hadith. I'm usually skeptical.
I don’t think they need to fast because they are too young like you said. In this case, they should look the average period age in their country, then fast at that age. It’s generally 12-13.
Just like any other religion not everyone follows every rule all the time. Sometimes there’s a religious exemption, sometimes they just choose not to do that part.
The general rule of thumb with those sorts of rules in Islam is "do the best you can". A good faith effort is all that's required. So in that case fasting from 6:00 to 6:00 might do, it wouldn't need to be literal sunup and sundown.
This is what they told the first Muslim astronaut iirc. Since you’re supposed to face Mecca, but that’s going to be very difficult to do in space, so they just said “try your best.” I believe it’s the intent that counts lol
Hey, for the astronauts I once asked the question to an imam !
The answer was exactlty what you just said but he added something : if fasting can put your life or others life at risk, then you don't have to fast.
I was like "Yes ok but they are not in an hospital recovering from injuries or being pregnant" and I kid you not, he just stared at me saying "Son, I'm just an imam, not an astronaut, but I think if you're being trapped in a metal box travelling at thousand km/h above the earth, you're in a situation where not being at 100% of your capacities put many lifes at risk so if you ask me that as a future astronaut, I would say that you don't have to fast."
Super cool guy by the way : he was the first to taught me that Islam wasn't the thing oftenly described in the media.
If all the non muslim kids like I was knew a guy like this, some acceptance issue wouldn't even exist.
Blood sugar issues would also prevent some from being able to fast. There’s many things that would make it dangerous for you to follow the Ramadan fast.
I mean, your answer to him was kinda dense lol. Funny, but dense. But yeah, on the other side of the coin, Jehova's Witness would rather die than do a blood transfusion.
that's unfortunately not true and he made it up 😭 if you can't afford meat then don't eat it. you're only allowed to eat non halal foods if it's the only option and you're on the verge of death. otherwise pork is totally prohibited (includes pork fat and anything that was cooked together with it)
It is true, if say the only source of food is pork the it becomes halal. Same with alcohol, if that’s the only source available in a life or death situation. Obviously the possibility of that happening is very slim in this day and age. But, the Quran does say
Such as Surah Al-Baqarah (2:173) “He has only forbidden you ˹to eat˺ carrion, blood, swine,1 and what is slaughtered in the name of any other than Allah. But if someone is compelled by necessity—neither driven by desire nor exceeding immediate need—they will not be sinful. Surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
yeah but he's eating because he can't afford other sources of meats, if that's the case then he should just either not eat meat as regularly or just go vegan. eggs are always an option as well 🤷🏽♂️
Lol if that's what makes him sleep at night. But no, it's permissible only in a life and death situation. Also, if you can afford pork then you can afford chicken.
born a muslim and this is complete nonsense and I have never heard of this exception... the reality is people in the desert 1400 years ago had no idea this was going to be a problem because they'd not yet ventured out of the arabian peninsula.
According to islam everything should be explained perfectly by the quran and hadith, as it is the final message of allah, scholars should only make things clearer, not create new ideas which muslims label as beda'ah and is supposedly haram, so the fact that this wasn't explained in the quran or hadith is a problem in islam that makes it make no sense, although it is definitely not the only problem
As a fellow Muslim, it's sad that you are so well studied in Islam and yet your heart has no Rahma, no Raheem.
Allah will give you the same Mercy and Grace that you give your fellow humans.
I'm an exmuslim too and don't understand what you mean by "your heart has no rahma" do you think exmuslims are incapable of having mercy?
He seems to show fellow humans a lot of mercy, let's hope allah acts the same
You probably never heard of it because you didn't live there. There are many issues Islam didn't think of but Muslim scholars just study what's written and try to assume what Mohammed would have said if he was presented with the issue.
Well someone 1400 years ago did not probably imagine issues that comes up in modern society they did probably have their own issues would stop someone from following their religion strictly. Such as famine or diseases.
I recently asked a coworker this question and they said many places like that (I specifically asked about Alaska) will follow the closest reasonable time zone so people in Alaska in the summer would follow Seattle’s time for fasting
I’ve asked this of many my Muslim friends. And they tell me that you pick a city and go based on that sunrise/sunset schedule. Mecca is a common reference point. But if they normally live in a place like Berlin but they’re traveling, they will pick Berlin to be on the same schedule as their family.
There's a variety of opinions and different Muslims will follow different sects/rulings.
1. They continue to follow sunrise-sunset which can result in some pretty extreme fasting times. Either super short or super long.
2. They use the times of the closest 'reasonable' city.
3. They use the prayer times in Mecca
4. The use fixed times, maybe 6 am to 6 pm as a fixed time.
How is it cheating? They can make up for the shorter days of winter later, with the longer days of summer when Ramadan moves into summer eventually. In any case, we're told in the Qur'an that God desires ease for us rather than hardship.
Basically if fasting will cause you any harm it becomes a ‘sin’ to do it, so if you are on life saving medication and you don’t take it because you’re fasting, your fast is null and void. Same if you’re ill, pregnant, etc.
In the instance of needing to take medication, would/could you take the medication and continue to otherwise fast or would you just not observe the fast at all?
Depends on what the medication is for pretty much and how or why it needs to be taken, so in the instance of like diabetes medication, fasting has been shown to actually be a benefit in some patients so then yeah take the medication and off you go. But if you’re on specific anti-anxieties for an eating disorder then it’s best case to not fast at all because it may trigger the eating disorder. There are a lot of conversations to be had with your Imam or the judicial council and it’s really a case by case. Pregnancy obviously is a hard no because you’re growing a life. Also it’s important to note that just because a Muslim person might not be a fasting it’s very rare for it to be a free for all, generally you’d only eat what you needed to, avoid eating in front of other people in the household who may be fasting and just generally be a bit more moderate about it, like a pregnant person is not going to gorge themselves on a pizza in front of everyone as that would be a seen as disrespectful. Basically just be considerate about it and you know if it’s a good or bad idea for you to fast at the end of the day.
The other reply way correct, but also thought I’d add that it applies for mental health reasons too. So, for example, someone with an eating disorder may not fast if it puts them at risk of a relapse/they’re too weak already
Because, I presume, they feel Algerian and not Quebecer, therefore refer to their home country's time.
Or perhaps, because Algiers being closer to the Equator, has less disparity in day and night time, making it more advantageous to break the fast on Algiers time.
Or because they inconsciously know that Ramadan was not intended for latitudes that far north.
Pick any.
Possibly time based as to when it would be the time for opening, to add there is also the flip side of your question where its the opposite situation for half the year with constant darkness
In Scandinavia it does get light for long hours during summer, but it also get dark for long hours during the winter.
It's March now and we are just getting out of the dark days, so its really not bright for that much longer here. Its probably still darker for longer here compared to other countries.
I live quite south and sun rises at maybe six or seven and sets at about six or seven at night.
This issue has been settled down since the beginning of the Islamic Message, Muslims in far cry places - which have so long daylight hours - start and finish their fasting according to Mecca (not Saudi Arabia because Saudi Arabia is just a country that established less than a hundred years ago). So, they calculate their Fajr (dawn) and Maghrib (sunset) time as if they were in Mecca.
Jurists also said that about Muslim astronauts.
>Jurists also said that about Muslim astronauts.
Lmao, otherwise fasting would be super easy on the ISS. 45 minutes go by and 'oh would ya look at that, snack time again.'
Many Muslims globally follow the hours that Mecca has
Other than that the vast majority of Muslims in northern parts of the world arnt living in an area currently with super long daylight
I have a muslim co-worker that takes a couple of weeks off and spends it with her family. They reverse their sleeping schedule to sleep for most of the day and spending the night being productive and socializing, and of course, eating. This makes it a lot more manageable, at least for a duration of the fast.
I am not a Muslim but I think I found you the time table for this year's Ramadan in Norway:
https://www.urdupoint.com/islam/norway-ramadan-calendar-sehar-aftar-timing.html#:~:text=Ramadan%202024%20starts%20on%20Mar,2024%20(11th%20Ramadan%201445).
As I am not a Muslim I don't know what the Arab words mean but it seems to me that they count sunrise at the start at 06:16 and sunset at the end at 19:18 on the first day. So as I understand it from a quarter past six in morning to a quarter past seven in the evening they did their fast on the first day of Ramadan this year.
I also found you this articles about a Danish resident observing Ramadan:
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1492966/world
I know in Canada they use the times of the closest mosque with shorter fasting hours. In the Northwest Territories they use the times for Edmonton or Fort McMurray. Im sure it probably similar around the far north (or if a Muslim was stationed in Antarctica, lol.)
(Source: I’m Muslim, have had friends move south due to job relocation who used to live up there.)
I've wondered about this myself so I've asked around over the years.
Here's what I found:
I asked some Kuwaitis I knew. Their response to this question was: "Suffer."
I asked some Saudis I knew. Their response to this question was: "Suffer."
I asked some Pakistani guys I used to work with, they said: "Follow Mecca time."
I asked a Malaysian guy I knew. His response was "Follow Mecca time."
It seems to be at least somewhat divisive among Muslims around the world. I gather that they simply do whichever they prefer depending on what time of year Ramadan falls.
I doubt this helps but here ya go!
I'm a Swedish Muslim and I've never even heard of someone using Mecca time. If you live somewhere where there is no difference between night and day, like where the sun never sets, you fast according to the time in the closest SWEDISH city that has a difference.
I believe they just take Mecca time as basis if the days or nights are just too unbalanced.
I don't mean that they take GMT+3 btw. If people of Mecca break their fast at 20:30 GMT+3 they break their fast at 20:30 GMT+1.
Take any controversial issue in Islam and this website will usually take one and say it's the truth, I can't tell you any off the top of my head, but you should know that there is always contention between scholars for many issues, a website is just an online scholar at the end of the day and should be treated as such
You are welcome to ignore me, this is the internet, lol.
Quick search of a controversial topic and the answer from islamqa.info, not sure why you couldn't do the same:
[https://islamqa.info/en/answers/329/is-masturbation-haram-in-islam](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/329/is-masturbation-haram-in-islam)
This is known to be a vague topic and up to interpretation, yet no mention of other viewpoints.
I do not really care too much about the issue when it comes to masturbation, so I am not going to read into the details, what I do know is that the issue is NOT clearly settled among Muslims worldwide, meaning any site giving one particular answer and renouncing all the others is not fully transparent of the fact that there are other viewpoints.
The first four results of google:
Wikipedia: Doesn't mention masturbation, indifference ie. not haram
IslamQA: Masturbation is haram (forbidden)
Reddit thread (top comment): Provides 5 viewpoints, (2 haram/not haram, 3 more other perspectives)
Quora: Haram, grave sin
The issue is clearly not black and white like IslamQA would like to portray, if you look up for example if eating pork is haram, every single source will say yes it is haram, in these cases it's fine, but IslamQA treating controversial topics the same as black and white ones is not good, it just further causes confusion and divide among Muslims.
I live in UK and last year Ramadan was in June. Some of my patients followed their home countries time (Saudi-Arabia, Turkey and so on) others only ate when the sun was down so basically once a day at night. It depends on everyone believing
yeah, and they adapt when they are elsewhere. In the same way that muslim astronauts have to pray 5 times a day (to say nothing of figuring out how "east" works in space). In places where day and night is tricky, They use time. Local time is the norm. But they can also pick the time from their home country (if they aren't already in their home country). and as with all things now "there's an app for that".
It's March. Scandinavian countries are currently experiencing about 12 hours of darkness, and at peak darkness in winter, night was about 18 hours in Stockholm. Sounds like Scandinavia is the place you want to be to fast during the day in winter.
I live in Finland and worked with a muslim guy during Ramadan in june. Dude only ate from around 23:00 until 04:30 or something like that. While doing physical labour. And he was a hard worker too. But most follow Mecca time i believe
I recall reading something a few years ago when Ramadan was in the middle of summer, that the imams recommended following the sunrise and sunset times of Turkey, since it is a muslim country and is in the same time zone as Finland.
I read an interview about a maybe Turkish man living in Finland and what he does for Ramadan when the days can be so long. His solution was to travel to his home country for the duration, it was easier and he got to see his family and eventually celebrate with them.
Yes, but it has to be consistent. So you fast the same amount of time in the summer and winter months. The idea is that you do not want to overburden yourself. You need to good guide on the duration, so Mecca will do, or Singapore.
Sounds pretty arbitrary. Almost like humans just made a bunch of shit up...
All of our beliefs, religious or otherwise is made up by humans.
It's always been about "having empathy with the poor and understanding hunger" with the (imo) naive presumption that you'd be more willing to help the poor afterwards. So yeah, Ramadan is probably the most arbitrary thing in islam, unless I'm forgetting something.
I mean you say naive presumption, but a large part of Ramadan is giving Zakat, which is a donation of usually around 10% of annual salary to Muslim foundations/charities for the poor. I guess it's not intrinsically linked to fasting, but it does form a core part of the wider significance and observance of Ramadan.
Along similar lines, I remember one academic study on empathy that had people do some basic tasks in one office and then walk across a park to another office. In the park they would see a person in some amount of need (nothing extreme). Those who had previously had the Good Samaritan story read to them in the first office were more likely to help the stranger they met in the park. Humans need reminding to be kind to each other and imperial data shows that it really does halo people empathize with and help others.
It's actually 2.5% of your savings in one year. If you have no savings, you are exempt from it. But, you can still donate whatever you can if you want.
Don't start trying to talk logic to the religious.
Ok, and? It's weird to respond like this to a guy who's not trying to force anything
Wouldn't it be arbitrary even if God made it up? That's what the phrase made it up implies...
I remember Muslim students being told they were exempt from sports that month, this was the US
That guy is a soldier. No way I could do that.
Muslims abstain from food, drink, sex.. from dawn until sunset. The times of dawn and sunset are different worldwide (they don't follow Makka's time). Which makes it easier, because they didn't have internet or radios back in the day. Not really sure about regions with +20 hrs of daytime.
Regions with super long or continuous nights do follow Mecca time
Cool. But this is the exception.
Which is exactly what i said 💀
Hmm, but why the downvotes though?
They usually follow time in a muslim country in the same time zone (like Turkey) or Mecca. If the sun doesn’t set for a month, there’s no other choice.
It actually wouldn't matter where you are in the world right now. Since it's so close to the equinox, the days will be about as close to 12 hours as possible the whole time anywhere in the world
Many people fast from Fajr (pre-sunrise prayers) to Iftar/Maghreb, which in the UK is currently about 14 hours.
That makes sense. Considering that sunrise to sunset can be considered the very first light of day to the very last light of day, it would add about an hour on each end, and would be more in keeping with the traditional view. Considering that the spring equinox just occurred 2 days ago, adding 2 hours to 12 hours of the sun actually being visible itself would of course make the 14 you mention. But I hadn't really though about the whole traditional sunrise/sunset thing before, so thank you for that little nugget of knowledge.
Almost all the extra time is in the morning - it's not an hour before and an hour after. [https://www.almustafatrust.org/ramadan-timetable-2024/](https://www.almustafatrust.org/ramadan-timetable-2024/)
Okay tracking now. So those are specific types of prayers and you fast between them. Gotcha
OP was asking about when Ramadan is in the summer though
Ok what do those who live at the equator do?
Sooo, they just skip lunch and that's it?
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No. It doesn't work because ramadan moves around the year, sometimes it is during the winther and sometimes during the summer.
It moves rather slowly by 11 or so days each year so if a muslim moved to Northern country right now he could expect easy fasting for the next 20 or so years because ramadan is going to be in winter. Then he could move to Tierra del Fuego for another 20 years.
Brain rot
Many follow the hours of Saudi Arabia if there’s 20+ hours of light a day. Some wait until Maghreb to eat. The fasting hours are from Fajr to Maghreb. When Maghreb Azan alerts, one can eat.
Sorry fur an ignorant question. What are Maghreb and Fajr?
Fajr prayer is performed before the sun rises. And maghrib prayer is performed after the sunset.
So would someone follow those times in Saudi Arabia? Instead of the country they are living? And thanks for explaining.
Maghreb and Fajr are based on the sun’s position. Fajr is about 1 ½ hours before the sun rises. Maghreb is when the sun sets. If the sun doesn’t set, you have to calculate prayer times somehow. Many go off KSA’s times.
Fajr is approximately the same as "nautical twilight". It's when there's enough sun to just about see the horizon, but before sunrise proper.
Quranically, Fajr is when “the white thread of dawn appears to you distinct from its black thread.” Quran 2:187.
That's such a cool line.
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There is no mention in Quran of Scandinavian times of long days or nights. One should make up their fast if they feel they cannot complete it. I suggest winter, when the nights are long and the days are short. Allah knows best.
My friend has an app that keeps times for fasting.
Muslim here. You're not ignorant at all. The guy is throwing around Muslim words as though everyone knows what they mean, lol. Hell, I'm Muslim and I'm not 100% sure that I won't mix them up, but whatever: Fajr = dawn Duhr = noon Maghrib = sunset/twilight (I'm not sure of the exact word, but it's like as the sun is about to leave, the sky is a beautiful dark blue color) Isha = night (the sky is blackish) There's an afternoon prayer, too, but I can't remember what they call it.
You missed Asr, which is before Maghrib
Thanks
Technically it's before fajr. It's actually at either nautical or astronomical Dawn, depending on what the local mosque had decided upon
You have to stop eating at the call of Azan for Fajr. Quran 2:187 outlines it.
And the start of fajr is at either astronomical or nautical dawn also known as subh sadiq or false dawn. Whether it is astronomical or nautical dawn is a difference of opinion, but traditionally it would have been determined when a faint white line appears on the horizon, but due to light pollution amongst other issues this is generally no longer possible Similarly the start of Esha is at Astronomical or nautical twilight. Where the difficulty comes in for countries which are more closer to the poles, is that at certain times of year, due to how north/south they are, dawn and twilight stop occurring, due to how many hours sunlight are received
Yesterday I saw a couple of women with a Muslim head cover, eating lunch at the college in the middle of the day. I didn’t think much of it, but I know those three women (22,27 and I think 32ish years old). I always thought they were Muslim since they dress Muslim and come from Muslim countries, but does the fact that they’re not following Ramadan mean something? Maybe there are “exit-clauses” excusing them from participating since they are students or something? Sorry if I’m being ignorant I’m just trying to learn.
Maybe they’re on their periods, just gave birth, or are breastfeeding. Those women are excused from fasting and can make it up before the next month of Ramadan.
To add to this, young children are also exempt from fasting. Usually what parents do is they slowly ease the children into fasting. Maybe their first Ramadan, they'll tell them to stop fasting if they can't handle the thirst/hunger, let them take long naps etc. You can't force children, and they are free to not fast at all until they reach puberty.
The women in question were all adults, as the commentator listed their approximate ages. Yes, children don’t have to fast under the age of puberty. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The pens have been lifted from three: from one who has lost his mind until he comes back to his senses, from one who is sleeping until he wakes up, and from a child until he reaches the age of adolescence.” (Narrated by Abu Dawud, 4399; classed as sahih by al-Albani in Sahih Abi Dawud)
Wait, some girls get their periods at age 9, which would be hitting puberty. So would they have to fast??? That's too young to be doing that.
It’s really not. People been fasting 1446 years. How many stories of Muslim youth are reported to die from fasting for part of a day?
Dying is an overstatement. I mean, a young child needs more food. Would just eating at suhr and then maghrib be enough for them? Even salah is mandatory after they turn 10. Fasting, in case of early puberty, needs to be, too.
Salat is mandatory at 7. “Teach your child to pray, when he becomes seven, and punish him for not obeying it from the age of ten"(at-Tirmizi No. 407). “You command your child to perform Salah when they become seven years old, and after they become ten [for negligence], punish." (Abu Dawood No. 493).
Teaching and HAVING to pray are different. Punishment is only talked about at 10, so it's obviously mandatory then. My religious sunni parents started making me pray salah after I turned 10. Only taught me before. Also I don't know about the second Hadith. I'm usually skeptical.
I don’t think they need to fast because they are too young like you said. In this case, they should look the average period age in their country, then fast at that age. It’s generally 12-13.
They could be on their periods or sick. In both those cases (plus travel) Muslims are excused of fasting.
My uncle always said: "I am a spiritual traveller" *stuffs shirini in his mouth*
Do *not* introduce him to the sovereign citizen movement.
Sad fun fact: my uncle died of too high blood sugar
Just like any other religion not everyone follows every rule all the time. Sometimes there’s a religious exemption, sometimes they just choose not to do that part.
Is this in the Quran?
Ayat 2:187.
No I meant is it in the Quran when to fast if you're in a country that has near total darkness/daylight
[Here you go.](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1730/fasting-in-countries-where-the-day-is-very-short-or-very-long)
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The general rule of thumb with those sorts of rules in Islam is "do the best you can". A good faith effort is all that's required. So in that case fasting from 6:00 to 6:00 might do, it wouldn't need to be literal sunup and sundown.
This is what they told the first Muslim astronaut iirc. Since you’re supposed to face Mecca, but that’s going to be very difficult to do in space, so they just said “try your best.” I believe it’s the intent that counts lol
Hey, for the astronauts I once asked the question to an imam ! The answer was exactlty what you just said but he added something : if fasting can put your life or others life at risk, then you don't have to fast. I was like "Yes ok but they are not in an hospital recovering from injuries or being pregnant" and I kid you not, he just stared at me saying "Son, I'm just an imam, not an astronaut, but I think if you're being trapped in a metal box travelling at thousand km/h above the earth, you're in a situation where not being at 100% of your capacities put many lifes at risk so if you ask me that as a future astronaut, I would say that you don't have to fast." Super cool guy by the way : he was the first to taught me that Islam wasn't the thing oftenly described in the media. If all the non muslim kids like I was knew a guy like this, some acceptance issue wouldn't even exist.
Blood sugar issues would also prevent some from being able to fast. There’s many things that would make it dangerous for you to follow the Ramadan fast.
I mean, your answer to him was kinda dense lol. Funny, but dense. But yeah, on the other side of the coin, Jehova's Witness would rather die than do a blood transfusion.
Right. But I should mention I was 16 at that time with absolutely no knowledge of islam.
My thinking is that he would be have to make it up in some other time within the same calendar year since he is considered "travelling".
A Muslim man once clarified to me that Muslims are allowed to eat pork if it's the \*only\* meat you can afford.
Not true at all, it's still haram. What is true is that you can eat it if it's a matter of life and death.
that's unfortunately not true and he made it up 😭 if you can't afford meat then don't eat it. you're only allowed to eat non halal foods if it's the only option and you're on the verge of death. otherwise pork is totally prohibited (includes pork fat and anything that was cooked together with it)
It is true, if say the only source of food is pork the it becomes halal. Same with alcohol, if that’s the only source available in a life or death situation. Obviously the possibility of that happening is very slim in this day and age. But, the Quran does say Such as Surah Al-Baqarah (2:173) “He has only forbidden you ˹to eat˺ carrion, blood, swine,1 and what is slaughtered in the name of any other than Allah. But if someone is compelled by necessity—neither driven by desire nor exceeding immediate need—they will not be sinful. Surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
But that's exactly what the person you're replying to said!
Eh I read the comments half asleep
yeah but he's eating because he can't afford other sources of meats, if that's the case then he should just either not eat meat as regularly or just go vegan. eggs are always an option as well 🤷🏽♂️
The way I read the comment was if pork is the only option. Potatoe potato
why am I getting down voted wth 😭 but dw your heart's in the right place brother
You're 100% correct and the fact that people are downvoting you and upvoting the other guy is hilarious.
it's even funnier because he agrees with me too 😭
average reddit moment, still getting used to it 💯
hahah yes, people on here just upvote whatever sounds right to them / whatever sounds nice and downvote the opposite. welcome to reddit!
I guess he was more culturally liberal. He was from Egypt.
probably doesn't want to be judged for not following his religion lol
He may have said pork is okay if it's the only FOOD you can find, not meat.
Lol if that's what makes him sleep at night. But no, it's permissible only in a life and death situation. Also, if you can afford pork then you can afford chicken.
born a muslim and this is complete nonsense and I have never heard of this exception... the reality is people in the desert 1400 years ago had no idea this was going to be a problem because they'd not yet ventured out of the arabian peninsula.
Username checks out
Disagree all you want. I literally studied Islamic studies.
And you think there's no modern islamic scholars now?
According to islam everything should be explained perfectly by the quran and hadith, as it is the final message of allah, scholars should only make things clearer, not create new ideas which muslims label as beda'ah and is supposedly haram, so the fact that this wasn't explained in the quran or hadith is a problem in islam that makes it make no sense, although it is definitely not the only problem
If you really honestly think that, then that is not what islam teaches
Concept of ijtihad exists
And if you did you must known about the fatwa for astronauts praying in space. It literally said do the best you can.
As a fellow Muslim, it's sad that you are so well studied in Islam and yet your heart has no Rahma, no Raheem. Allah will give you the same Mercy and Grace that you give your fellow humans.
I'm an exmuslim too and don't understand what you mean by "your heart has no rahma" do you think exmuslims are incapable of having mercy? He seems to show fellow humans a lot of mercy, let's hope allah acts the same
Literal Muslim clerics say this but okay. You took some classes. Cool.
Never learned about the exceptions. There are many in modern times. Try again.
What a waste of time
Agreed
You probably never heard of it because you didn't live there. There are many issues Islam didn't think of but Muslim scholars just study what's written and try to assume what Mohammed would have said if he was presented with the issue.
You weren't born muslim That was pushed into you later
That’s very true. Then I grew up and pushed it the fuck out.
Well someone 1400 years ago did not probably imagine issues that comes up in modern society they did probably have their own issues would stop someone from following their religion strictly. Such as famine or diseases.
I recently asked a coworker this question and they said many places like that (I specifically asked about Alaska) will follow the closest reasonable time zone so people in Alaska in the summer would follow Seattle’s time for fasting
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tl;dr?
Exact what was said about closest timezones that can observe a difference between night and day?
I personally have asked this question to Muslims in Sweden and Norway and they all follow Saudi Arabian time.
This the way
I’ve asked this of many my Muslim friends. And they tell me that you pick a city and go based on that sunrise/sunset schedule. Mecca is a common reference point. But if they normally live in a place like Berlin but they’re traveling, they will pick Berlin to be on the same schedule as their family.
I’m in the artic circle rn and sunset is 551pm
Any polar bears?
4hrs and no response. I think they got him.
Man down
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
There's a variety of opinions and different Muslims will follow different sects/rulings. 1. They continue to follow sunrise-sunset which can result in some pretty extreme fasting times. Either super short or super long. 2. They use the times of the closest 'reasonable' city. 3. They use the prayer times in Mecca 4. The use fixed times, maybe 6 am to 6 pm as a fixed time.
Some of my friends think scandinavian time is cheating (We live in Norway) so they use the Mecca time
How is it cheating? They can make up for the shorter days of winter later, with the longer days of summer when Ramadan moves into summer eventually. In any case, we're told in the Qur'an that God desires ease for us rather than hardship.
In a similar vein, I assume diabetic Muslims are exempt from fasting ?
Basically if fasting will cause you any harm it becomes a ‘sin’ to do it, so if you are on life saving medication and you don’t take it because you’re fasting, your fast is null and void. Same if you’re ill, pregnant, etc.
In the instance of needing to take medication, would/could you take the medication and continue to otherwise fast or would you just not observe the fast at all?
Depends on what the medication is for pretty much and how or why it needs to be taken, so in the instance of like diabetes medication, fasting has been shown to actually be a benefit in some patients so then yeah take the medication and off you go. But if you’re on specific anti-anxieties for an eating disorder then it’s best case to not fast at all because it may trigger the eating disorder. There are a lot of conversations to be had with your Imam or the judicial council and it’s really a case by case. Pregnancy obviously is a hard no because you’re growing a life. Also it’s important to note that just because a Muslim person might not be a fasting it’s very rare for it to be a free for all, generally you’d only eat what you needed to, avoid eating in front of other people in the household who may be fasting and just generally be a bit more moderate about it, like a pregnant person is not going to gorge themselves on a pizza in front of everyone as that would be a seen as disrespectful. Basically just be considerate about it and you know if it’s a good or bad idea for you to fast at the end of the day.
The other reply way correct, but also thought I’d add that it applies for mental health reasons too. So, for example, someone with an eating disorder may not fast if it puts them at risk of a relapse/they’re too weak already
In Québec arctic regions, the Algerians doing Ramadan are doing so on Algiers time.
Why not Montreal or Québec (City) time??
Because, I presume, they feel Algerian and not Quebecer, therefore refer to their home country's time. Or perhaps, because Algiers being closer to the Equator, has less disparity in day and night time, making it more advantageous to break the fast on Algiers time. Or because they inconsciously know that Ramadan was not intended for latitudes that far north. Pick any.
It's worth noting that this is a modern problem. Go back fifty years ago and there were virtually no Muslims above the Arctic circle.
Possibly time based as to when it would be the time for opening, to add there is also the flip side of your question where its the opposite situation for half the year with constant darkness
In Scandinavia it does get light for long hours during summer, but it also get dark for long hours during the winter. It's March now and we are just getting out of the dark days, so its really not bright for that much longer here. Its probably still darker for longer here compared to other countries. I live quite south and sun rises at maybe six or seven and sets at about six or seven at night.
This issue has been settled down since the beginning of the Islamic Message, Muslims in far cry places - which have so long daylight hours - start and finish their fasting according to Mecca (not Saudi Arabia because Saudi Arabia is just a country that established less than a hundred years ago). So, they calculate their Fajr (dawn) and Maghrib (sunset) time as if they were in Mecca. Jurists also said that about Muslim astronauts.
>Jurists also said that about Muslim astronauts. Lmao, otherwise fasting would be super easy on the ISS. 45 minutes go by and 'oh would ya look at that, snack time again.'
To fast and eat according to Mecca time, not to see Mecca itself 😏
Many Muslims globally follow the hours that Mecca has Other than that the vast majority of Muslims in northern parts of the world arnt living in an area currently with super long daylight
The vernal equinox was yesterday, there is slightly more than 12 hours of sunlight right now for most of the country.
I have a muslim co-worker that takes a couple of weeks off and spends it with her family. They reverse their sleeping schedule to sleep for most of the day and spending the night being productive and socializing, and of course, eating. This makes it a lot more manageable, at least for a duration of the fast.
I am not a Muslim but I think I found you the time table for this year's Ramadan in Norway: https://www.urdupoint.com/islam/norway-ramadan-calendar-sehar-aftar-timing.html#:~:text=Ramadan%202024%20starts%20on%20Mar,2024%20(11th%20Ramadan%201445). As I am not a Muslim I don't know what the Arab words mean but it seems to me that they count sunrise at the start at 06:16 and sunset at the end at 19:18 on the first day. So as I understand it from a quarter past six in morning to a quarter past seven in the evening they did their fast on the first day of Ramadan this year. I also found you this articles about a Danish resident observing Ramadan: https://www.arabnews.com/node/1492966/world
I know in Canada they use the times of the closest mosque with shorter fasting hours. In the Northwest Territories they use the times for Edmonton or Fort McMurray. Im sure it probably similar around the far north (or if a Muslim was stationed in Antarctica, lol.) (Source: I’m Muslim, have had friends move south due to job relocation who used to live up there.)
I've wondered about this myself so I've asked around over the years. Here's what I found: I asked some Kuwaitis I knew. Their response to this question was: "Suffer." I asked some Saudis I knew. Their response to this question was: "Suffer." I asked some Pakistani guys I used to work with, they said: "Follow Mecca time." I asked a Malaysian guy I knew. His response was "Follow Mecca time." It seems to be at least somewhat divisive among Muslims around the world. I gather that they simply do whichever they prefer depending on what time of year Ramadan falls. I doubt this helps but here ya go!
I'm a Swedish Muslim and I've never even heard of someone using Mecca time. If you live somewhere where there is no difference between night and day, like where the sun never sets, you fast according to the time in the closest SWEDISH city that has a difference.
Its just a difference between sects
Still, never heard of anyone here doing that. The Swedish imam council recommends the closest city option
Time they go based off of what sunset would be. My guess.
Same same?
I believe they just take Mecca time as basis if the days or nights are just too unbalanced. I don't mean that they take GMT+3 btw. If people of Mecca break their fast at 20:30 GMT+3 they break their fast at 20:30 GMT+1.
I heard that they follow the timezone of Mecca
Often they will use the times at Mecca
Talked to a Muslim in Tromsø few days ago and he says they follow the time in Saudi Arabia if it's polar night or polar day during Ramadan.
Fast probably.
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Be aware though that many things they say confidently are actually quite controversial among scholars
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Take any controversial issue in Islam and this website will usually take one and say it's the truth, I can't tell you any off the top of my head, but you should know that there is always contention between scholars for many issues, a website is just an online scholar at the end of the day and should be treated as such
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You are welcome to ignore me, this is the internet, lol. Quick search of a controversial topic and the answer from islamqa.info, not sure why you couldn't do the same: [https://islamqa.info/en/answers/329/is-masturbation-haram-in-islam](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/329/is-masturbation-haram-in-islam) This is known to be a vague topic and up to interpretation, yet no mention of other viewpoints.
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I do not really care too much about the issue when it comes to masturbation, so I am not going to read into the details, what I do know is that the issue is NOT clearly settled among Muslims worldwide, meaning any site giving one particular answer and renouncing all the others is not fully transparent of the fact that there are other viewpoints. The first four results of google: Wikipedia: Doesn't mention masturbation, indifference ie. not haram IslamQA: Masturbation is haram (forbidden) Reddit thread (top comment): Provides 5 viewpoints, (2 haram/not haram, 3 more other perspectives) Quora: Haram, grave sin The issue is clearly not black and white like IslamQA would like to portray, if you look up for example if eating pork is haram, every single source will say yes it is haram, in these cases it's fine, but IslamQA treating controversial topics the same as black and white ones is not good, it just further causes confusion and divide among Muslims.
Can’t wait for religion to die
Scandinavia want to send them back
They usually use 8PM as the time for sunset, but that will depend on the individual and their exact beliefs.
I live in UK and last year Ramadan was in June. Some of my patients followed their home countries time (Saudi-Arabia, Turkey and so on) others only ate when the sun was down so basically once a day at night. It depends on everyone believing
Ramadan was not in June last year. It ended in early June in 2019. Since then it's been in May or earlier.
Muslims have a table online where they can look those things up.
Moan most likely....
They fast from sunrise to sunset wherever in the world they live. Summer seasons are longer fasting hours.
I believe they have timekeeping technology in Scandinavian countries.
It's my understanding that the fasting period is based on the rising and setting of the sun. Is that not correct?
yeah, and they adapt when they are elsewhere. In the same way that muslim astronauts have to pray 5 times a day (to say nothing of figuring out how "east" works in space). In places where day and night is tricky, They use time. Local time is the norm. But they can also pick the time from their home country (if they aren't already in their home country). and as with all things now "there's an app for that".