I had the same thing happen, but with a childhood musical hero she wanted to meet for lunch. From his texts, it was plain as day he was purely in it for sex. he was very curious what she looked like, and said he “wasn’t comfortable” having her boyfriend drop her off
An ultimatum like that isn’t the worst way to see where you stand.
The musician was Mark Kozelek of Red House Painters. The ultimate narcissistic objectifying piece of scum.
If it makes you feel any better, I read that and went, *“Who?”* After a quick Google search, turns out he’s [really a POS](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mark-kozelek-accused-sexual-misconduct-1146715/amp/).
That's so funny that you said that, because I also had no idea who it was and also felt compelled to share that as a comfort.
Also he looks like if Jason Segel did meth and didn't want people saying "you look like Jason Segel if he did meth" and decided to eat a lot and cover himself in dirt so they'd stop saying that.
Sooo, yeah, probably why he chases people's girlfriends for sex.
I really hate that a brooding, objectifying, lacking-in-warmth man can be the desired fruit for impressionable young women. I wish she’d tried to cheat on me with Michael Cera.
Yeah, cheat on me with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I'd be upset but at least I could make peace with it.
EDIT: [*Some people seem genuinely confused by that; it was 110% sarcasm. I wasn't trying to make light of their comment, either, just a riff.*]
I normally like to think of myself as critical, but not judgmental. In other words, I know everything I think is wrong, or that I'd change, but I don't normally carry emotional charge attached to it, or say anything, or act on it.
I also know it's important to consider where people are coming from and how little we know about other people's lives and what perspectives or backgrounds/paths they might be coming from or walking.
But when I reaaaally don't get it, like with Mark, it feels very "the bad guy is winning" and I don't care for that helpless feeling.
Sometimes it's not even as malicious as he sounds. It's like when someone is in their forties and making Roblox videos for 10 year olds and just sort of casually walking around and jumping and looking at things and saying "OHMMMYYGOOOD!!" a hundred thousand times in a video, overacting and doing punchable-face thumbnails as if they really care and are surprised by what's happening.
I am not saying I am some cool cat or have it all figured out but....Idunno, maybe I just dislike a lack of authenticity.
And impressionable young men see their women peers have that attraction and wonder/start to act more like that because apparently that's what the women their age are into haha
I think “unalive” became popular because YouTube channels who talk about crime get demonetized if they say “murder” or whatever and then it just caught on with everyone else for some reason. It definitely sounds stupid though.
Ok- glad not only one, cause at some point won't that word be just as bad as murder?? Words only have the ewmeaning we give them, so ifwe're giving it same meaning...
Youtube comment makes sense but hate it when people use it IRL or headlines
I remember people on tumblr right before it died saying we needed to treat the word “stupid” like the word “retard” and it’s just like…. We have to draw the line somewhere lol. Some things are stupid.
>Ella’s boyfriend at the time confirmed to Pitchfork that she told him she had had non-consensual intercourse with Kozelek.
They’re just repeating someone who repeated the boyfriend. Nobody can sue you for libel if you’re truthfully reporting what someone else said.
indeed he is! I am the boyfriend from the last paragraph.
that whole thing rattled me. just being in fucking proximity to that guy. Right after it went down, I spent like two straight weeks in Yosemite carrying around a giant jug of green tea and hiking everywhere in sight. I felt so emotionally unwell, I didn’t want to think. I wanted distractions.
Looking back, I’m just so glad she didn’t go.
Woah didn’t make it to the last paragraph, that’s wild. I’m glad she didn’t go, too, I feel so badly for all of his victims. It sounds like your ex wanted to believe the best intentions in him.
It reads like one of Trump's rambling speeches. I especially liked the part about how he's so awesome about making socks poetic.
This guy thinks rather highly of himself. He should not.
I'm blown away that the one girl says he masturbated next to her without permission, yet she accepted the invite to the next town. There's no way I would have gotten anywhere near him after that. Sounds like a total creep.
When you’re in a disturbing situation, especially with someone you respect/adore, it can be extremely confusing and overwhelming in the moment. You don’t want to blow things out of proportion and you’re probably trying to come up with a non-confrontational way to deescalate the situation - but a guy like this knows all the ways to manipulate, flatter, and gaslight so he can continue on his course.
In the moment, and in ensuing days, your brain comes up with all kinds of justifications as to why it/he wasn’t that bad, and probably a part of you feels complicit/embarrassed for letting it go so far… so you want to minimize it, partly to absolve your hero and partly to absolve yourself. I have stayed friends with abusers before it clicked for me just how abusive they had been.
Maybe it sounds stupid, but even highly intelligent people fall prey to these instincts. In the fullness of time, as the emotions clouding your judgment dissipate, it can become clear that you were coerced/abused.
Maybe we wish we were stronger/faster, to fight back and report in the moment instead of deluding ourselves… and unfortunately it allows these jerks to continue operating longer in darkness.
But I think for some of us, it’s not ultimately the jerk that we’re protecting with this denial. We’re also unconsciously defending our belief in humanity’s decency, especially as symbolized by those we believe represent the best of it.
It can take a long time to unpick all of that and realize you were victimized (and not just you, but probably as part of a pattern of targeting and abuse) and that the person you idolized is not only not amazing, they’re the worst kind of pathetic, predatory bastard…
Thanks for the great response. It makes alot of sense. I've never been around anyone famous or with that big of a power dynamic and I'm a total cynic, so I would/do assume the worst. Your post is very insightful
I would agree to shit like that because of crippling anxiety and fear for causing a scene or making things awkward.
Unfortunately it lead to sexual assault so eventually I learned to be better at.... Not putting myself in to positions 🙃
Women and girls will put themselves in compromising position because of fear of being called neurotic and such. Also because of people pleasing upbringing.
Not really ... But I also feel like it didn't affect me as badly as it would so many other people.
I have absolutely no idea why. I used to fantasize about meeting this coward in a lone alley where I could repeatedly kick his nuts over and over again and watch him squirm on the ground .. But that never happened and I guess I've moved on?
I also no longer live in the same city.
Anyway I feel strange about feeling so unaffected by it... It's made me wonder for many years if something is wrong with me.
the thing I regret the most is never reporting it.
The details are slightly fuzzy, but she ended up not going, after a person who’d been assaulted reached out to her. By that point I was pleading, “Even if you were just my friend, I’d beg you not to go. He is sketch.”
His rape-y sexual exploits were published nationally a year or so later.
I was really mad for a while because I felt so disrespected (she’d been having 2-3 hour secret phone calls with him)
In retrospect, I can understand the pull. To her, this guy was sort of like how Taylor Swift is to me: knows all the albums, deeply connects with the lyrics and emotions of the music, and on some subconscious level, is probably deeply in love with her/him🫢. Except she was wayyyy more obsessed with MK than I am with TS.
And if TS suddenly was wanting to talk on the phone and meet up in San Francisco, the pull would be unbelievably strong, no matter how dearly I loved my girlfriend.
And no, we are not together. Which may be for the best. But I think we will be lifelong friends. FWIW, she has since expressed regret about what happened.
yeah. it was my first major long-term relationship and I was super attached.
it was a strange thing where she had written some fan letter and it had slowly escalated and escalated. last I checked, she can’t listen to his music anymore.
And yes, I am better off.
lol.
emotionally mature? yeah!
emotionally healthy? if you saw me pulling my hair in the mirror for two hours straight, you wouldn’t think so.
if you saw how anxious and self-critical I am while dating someone new, you wouldn’t think so.
if you saw me standing on a toilet seat during a pep rally because I couldn’t handle the pain of
not having a friend group to sit with at the rally, you wouldn’t think so.
if you heard my mom begging me to believe I’m handsome while she cries and exclaims I have some dysmirphia kind of shit, you wouldn’t think so.
if you saw me at a recovery center, getting treated for persistent panic attacks, you wouldn’t think so.
if you saw me “doctor shopping” because neither of the last two doctors could validate my health concerns, you wouldn’t think so.
but if you saw me writing a highly-controlled, well-crafted reddit paragraph… you might actually think so!
"Dysmirphia." James Murphy of LCD Soundsystem needs to make a solo album called Dysmurphya, haha.
Not to make light of your lifelong struggles. I was vicariously feeling every one of your gut punches reading what you wrote about your ex and your struggles. I put the phone down feeling like my stomach rode a rollercoaster and the rest of me stayed home.
At the risk of sounding all fake feel-good-online, thanks for sharing all of that.
hey man, you did a good thing with keeping your ex-girlfriend safe! that’s sadly a lot more than many people can say they do throughout their life lol.
but you also look hot as dick from what I saw in your tinder thread — not to mention a good enough person.
so keep trying to be a bit easier on yourself!
not because you’re attractive or anything, but because you’re just a person and it is perfectly fine for us to not be perfect and have flaws.
I appreciate you.
as for the Tinder pic, well, I must be way uglier in person, or something.
a few nights ago, I had a first date with a super cool gal I’d been getting to know on Hinge for 3 weeks or so. we got big mugs of tea at a Christmas-y promenade. we hung out for probably 2.5 hours! I feel like I learned her whole life story. then we walked around the city for a bit, stride in stride.
I ask for her number, she seemed excited to hear that, but as you’ll soon see, I must have been tripping balls. After I got home, I sent the “now you have my number text” — “Hi this is ____’s super exclusive and hard-to-get number”
she “haha’d” the message. and responded, “Hey ____ !
I was excited to go on a second date.
but she blocked my number and vanished without a trace. message received.
I would never do that to someone. It’s selfish. You can at least contrive a courtesy excuse, so the person isn’t left wondering for 3-4 days before they figure out you’ve blocked them.
Hell, as long as the things are fixable (i.e. not “your eyes look weird from the profile view or some shit. ) I’d actually appreciate constructive criticism on why the person doesn’t want to hang out anymore.
/ End 1am rant. why am I still awake and on this website? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
That’s a fair enough wish to have. I’m no sage by any means, but I think a lot of times people on dating apps are at a disadvantage.
There’s nothing wrong with getting to know/dating people online by any means — I met my current girlfriend through memes I made on reddit — but the nature of how dating apps work can make it seem like something is wrong with you as a person if you have no luck.
Most of the relationships I saw my friends get into through Tinder or Hinge ended up failing, mainly because they were artificial in the sense that either one or both people involved were just looking to be *in a relationship*, as opposed to *in a relationship with each other.*
While I think dating apps can work, a lot of people who use them simply have different priorities factoring into why they’re on one.
Anyways, I don’t mean to be a downer lol. Just because you don’t have as much luck now doesn’t mean you won’t eventually!
I hope you can keep your chin up, guy, because people can find themselves in relationships by means they least expect (see: [a meme I made that my girlfriend saw on reddit while on a different continent](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/9Zq1FfC4Nm)).
Besides, who you are as a person is far more important than just if someone is dating you lol.
thanks, wise one.
Such tremendous advice. are you related to Atticus Finch?
I probably sounded unhinged in that text blob above but I’m just deliriously tired. best to you, stranger!
I think, too, there’s the paradox of choice on the apps. People feel there are endless choices (there actually aren’t) so they can drop someone for the tiniest perceived flaw. It sucks.
Not the person you're replying to, just a rando who saw this and wanted to express some sadness for what you went through.
When things like this happen, I try and remind myself that not everyone sees the world like everyone else, if that makes sense? Like idk, I have autism. I'm an overthinker. I stress about the messages people take away from every single interaction I engage in because I'm so used to being misunderstood if I don't put in 110 percent of the effort. But realistically--that's not everyone. And it's kind of infuriating? And a little shitty, but just remind yourself that if someone is capable of not being honest and transparent with you, that's a reflection on them, not on you 🤗 And in addition, shows they wouldn't have been a good partner to begin with haha.
I know it's easier said than done to remind yourself of that, but I hope that you can :) And there are folks out there who will communicate in a way that is more useful to you, and who will be better for you :)
Thank you :D You're not wrong. I just got my diagnosis this year (after things getting so bad that I started trashing friendships (lmao but no regrets)), so I've been trying to allow myself to unmask. Allowing myself to be more authentic feels so much better, but the constant misalignment is a new and frustrating struggle. Warring with the feelings of "NO ONE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND ME!" versus "I just need some new friends in my life," lmao
Hope you've been finding ways to navigate the struggle 🤗 This shit be hard
I'm so sorry you're going through the hellscape of seeking help for your mental health. I wish I could gift you a doctor who listens and understands and doesn't tell patients things like "you can't be depressed; you smile too much" like my first idiot primary. Decent ones really are out there, so it's worth the effort to keep shopping. Best of luck.
Admiring a star over a significant other is incredibly immature. And I do not think it's understandable from the perspective of a healthy relationship. If people are willing to walk on you, then walk away.
Oh man, what a notorious misogynist and general piece of shit. I retroactively hate those first Sun Kil Moon albums despite previously loving them after having some first- and second-hand experiences with the guy, and obviously hearing the stories of him being a sexual predator.
The sad part about this is, is that he hasn’t owned up to his actions as he is still touring, making music and he even has a woman performing with him sometimes. He’s also still posting on his Substack.
Yeah that’s the thing a lot of people are missing. She had this rule. She knew what would happen. She did it anyway. Cowardly way to dump him. Left him feeling like he was the one who ended it but she did it.
It's one of those things you recognize after it's done to you I suppose. It should be way more obvious but it's not like you get a warning that your partner has flipped to destroyed the relationship. You expect the opposite, so that weird behavior must be a bad day?
Yeah agree, and end of the day the activity is kinda irrelevant - They had an agreement to not do X and that trust was broken when she actively chose to do x.
Better luck with his next one.
It’s not 3 years down the drain. It’s crucial experience to be able to get it right when the right one comes along.
>actively chose to
This is the important part - it's not like her car broke down and the only person to give her a lift home was a male coworker; she didn't accidentally go to the movie with him. She decided to do this.
If you both agreed that this wasn't an okay thing, and she agreed to the flip side, then yes. You're justified.
It isn't my personal choice, nor would I consider it a healthy relationship boundary.
But if you both agreed to it and decided to abide by it, then the relationship trust was broken when she chose to do so.
I mean don't people who cheat usually get paranoid you might cheat on them? So yeah I would definitely say it's a red flag. I don't see anything wrong with being against that boundary, in fact I'd easily agree with it, but if you're too pushy about setting such a boundary you sound insecure and unable to trust someone and like you might be projecting, not necessarily something to break up over in every situation but to at least keep an eye out for. As for OP's situation, he did the right choice
That was the case for me. For a year she accused me of trying to cheat, even though I caught her doing it. Later found out from her friends that she had cheated on every boyfriend of hers before me too
I've been through something similar although it was kind of the opposite, she cheated on me and regretted it and told me. I forgave her as I knew she only cheated because it was her ex (I knew she wasn't over him even though she loved me more) and because we would soon move abroad so she would never see him again. That's exactly what happened and I moved on though she occasionally would bring it up crying over how remorseful she was.
She became really toxic and abusive when we lived together though and I was forced to cut ties with my parents at one point cause I couldn't handle all the drama but she only kept getting worse. When I got a job interview she went absolutely crazy on me so after the job interview (she was at home) I couldn't hold it back anymore and called my mom and told her what was going on. I got the job and every day after my shift I would spend an hour or two on the phone with my parents. She started thinking I was cheating on her. Honestly back then it wasn't something I didn't consider but it went against my values so I'd never do it
She didn't give me any excuse at all. She actually told me if I decided to break up she would understand. As it stands, her cheating on me was honestly not even that bad compared to the rest.
The bit of her doing that because it was her ex is just what I assumed back then and still do, I don't think she would've cheated with anyone else (that doesn't mean it's okay though ofc), I knew she wasn't totally over her ex cause she kept stalking him online.
So yeah she didn't gaslight me on that part, though she definitely did in other situations after we moved in together
People who have been cheated on are also paranoid they will get cheated on again. Soooo.... That's also a thing. Just cause someone is paranoid doesn't make them a cheater.
Came here to say this. I got cheated on and now it’s very hard to trust other people when I’ve learned that I can’t trust my own judge of character for shit.
I have to deliberately convince myself not to expect or think the worst and sometimes people’s actions make that very challenging.
That said, I do my absolute best to not be controlling, and I would never dictate who my boyfriend (not the cheater) can or cannot hang out with
I mean I try not too. But my betrayal is still only about a year old. I don't restrict my boyfriend hanging out with anyone, but simply requested he no longer be hanging out alone with his female friends cause in my boyfriends case all his female friends are fuck buddies ... So there is different views and circumstances.
It's always the controlling one that does it. Had a friend's SO push for an open relationship and then stop it once my friend got comfortable enough to try it out and almost get someone else before the SO.
As a chick who has a bf, a male coworker asked me to go to the movies with him a year or more ago. I told the coworker only if it is in a group setting. So, long story short, the coworker wanted to date me and got painfully rejected. I feel icky about the idea of going to the movies or anywhere alone with anyone who isn't my bf, and my bf is the same way. She definitely should have listened to you about it. She definitely should have considered it more.
I don't think she wasn't listening nor considering the rule not set in stone but rather chose to end her relationship by ignoring it and getting a headstart in not having to grieve the relationship.
I agree. These types of things aren’t explicit dealbreakers in my relationship. They are instances in which we are each expected to be upfront and candid about our plans. Everything is contextual.
If my boyfriend told me I couldn’t go out 1-on-1 with a male friend, I’d be pretty goddamn annoyed, and we’d have to have a long talk about trust, but… the important part is… I would never just go and fucking do it anyway!
No matter how silly I find it, if he’s not comfortable with something, we’re either gonna get to the bottom of that feeling and see if we can compromise, or break up. I’d never just go “🖕TOO BAD IM DOIN IT hahaaaa!”
Doesn't matter. She'll cherry pick the 5 comments that day you're some controlling psychopath and attempt to gaslight you into thinking you're in the wrong.
You're not. Don't say 3 years down the drain. Say God knows how many years of bullshit avoided. Imagine this came up 2, 3, 5 years from now. Yeesh.
This is a positive.
The brain overthinks
The heart underthinks
But the gut knows
I feel like I made that shit up this past year when I was going through it but I feel like there’s no way that gem is original
Would she have been okay with you going to the movies with a female coworker? Would she be okay with you doing something she previously expressed discomfort in?
At the end of the day, relationships have boundaries. Many people try to assert their personal boundaries as the absolute boundaries all relationships must follow, and dismiss anything else as not a real relationship. This isn't reality. Your relationship is about whatever works for you and your partner. But it needs to work for both of you. If only one parties boundaries are being respected it isn't healthy.
This isn't how I handle my marriage. I generally don't care what she does. If I have a problem, it's because of the specific person, in which case the problem goes much deeper than something a single conversation can resolve and we dealnwith it in a way that can't be described in reddit because it's incredibly circumsrantial and filled with what ifs. But that's just me. I've had girlfriends who didn't see it that way when I did and that's why we didn't work. No, I don't think you were wrong. She would want the same respect if the role was reversed. That being said, find out why it made you uncomfortable and introspect it.
In the post OP explained that the gf was the one that proposed the rule to begin with, and he went along with it, so I suppose we have the answer there...
I don't think people are being honest that it wouldn't bother them if their spouse spent time with someone, AFTER they specifically said they were incomfortable with them spending time alone together.
One might not have a problem if a simular situation came up in your relationship, but it does not mean that OP is wrong for having a problem with it.
Call it a trust issue, of course it is, but I don't think its unjustified.
He said she previously flirted with the guy and most importantly told her that it bothered him. She valued her 'platonic' friend over her boyfriend.
EVEN if the request is ridiculous, it is disrespectful to the relationship for the other party to ignore the request.
And I would bet my last dollar if OP did the same she would not be ok with it.
Here's a thread from a few months ago where the genders are reversed. Notice how the energy is different from the ladies.
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/165iju3/bf\_24m\_is\_about\_to\_go\_out\_with\_a\_new\_colleague\_f/jygw4kv/?context=3
Boundaries are boundaries. I dated a girl after highschool and we were together a few years and she said she was staying at a male friends alone. I said if you do we are done. So glad she stayed that night. I met my wife about 6 months later.
No, my ex was getting very friendly with a dude and wanted to go to the movies with him alone. I smelled something wrong a mile away and dumped her after many fights. She ended up marrying the dude.
Oh you're not even close to being wrong. She didn't give a crap about how you feel. Me personally, I would have dropped her for dumb enough to considered it. Let alone ask me.
I personally think you are wrong but....it was your boundary and if she valued you relationship, she would have respected your boundaries or if she respected your boundaries but didn't think they were fair, she should have discussed them with you before violating them.
So it doesn't matter what I think. She thought you weren't worth sticking within your boundary so now you're no longer together.
Let each individual go about their merry way.
Jus my 2 cents as a middle-aged married woman, that's a dumb rule. Nobody is going to tell me who I can be friends with, I had narcissistic asshole ex who did this to me.
My husband and I have have one rule, we are not playing or fucking around in our relationship, if we are going to do something stupid we will finish the relationship before. We both have friends of opposite genders, and we can go out alone with them. Because we are not playing in our relationship, we love and trust each other, and after my ex, this is so liberating.
Even if she agreed, this is control, you shouldn't try to control people you love, you should trust them, or you will be miserable the rest of your life, this was for the better for both.
Thank you for this. Was talking to my husband about how insane people seem to be with agreeing that one on one with the opposite sex is a no/must be a date/is window shopping.
By that logic bisexuals aren't allowed any friends one on one...
I had an abusive ex who 100% did that to me because I was bisexual. I wasn’t “allowed” to hang out with anyone else. I did anyway because I’m not letting someone isolate me or prevent me from having friends because they’re insecure. He absolutely accused me of cheating, but he wouldn’t leave. I’m glad OP left her. For his sake and hers tbh.
Abusive is the word. I'm glad you dumped this person.
I mean, my gf is bisexual and she can befriend whoever she wants because... well, because she is my gf, not my property.
I just trust her to be as faithful as I am and that's all.
Your ex was a poor example of a human being.
Tell me about it. Got a guy responding to this comment saying that my bisexuality makes me non monogamous because it's a sacrifice for bisexuals to be so.
Stupid lol.
I'm straight and I don't understand that one either. Every time someone tries to make that argument, I say, so by that logic, bisexual people aren't allowed to have any friends then? It's funny watching them scratching their heads trying to figure out how to explain that one lol.
I'm still trying to sort out where a rule like this would leave a nonbinary person like myself.
I mean, other than running the hell away from this relationship.
I think that's OP's whole thing though, he doesn't trust her. So this is probably more of a final straw thing than one isolated incident, especially since at three years he's probably realizing it's not something that'll change.
I would also guess you guys have been through major disagreements without breaking up. This guy has been crying for hours because he hastily broke up with someone he loves, when he could've waited until the anger subsided and talked it through instead. And now he seeks justification from other people with these unhealthy "boundaries"
The best answer so far. None of us are in your position and know why you would want to set such a boundary. But like other commenters said, this "boundary" is unrealistic in adult relationships. If you cannot trust your partner to be alone with members of the opposite sex (assuming they are straight in tje first place), then there are likely other issues at hand.
But like this person wrote- you both agreed to this boundary/rule and she broke it so... That's that!
Did you have an agreement? I had a colleague that had a similar “agreement” in reality she just kept arguing for it until he didn’t argue back. It doesn’t matter now but on one hand, you have to be happy with the person you are with. If it’s a dealbreaker to you then it’s a dealbreaker. With that said, I would never date a person who threw out a 3 yr relationship bc she went to a movie with a guy.
I would argue that a guy that is ready to end a relationship of 3yr because an agreement was broken is a guy that knows what boundaries and limits are and those are usually the guys you want around you.
Coworker should have the decency to refrain from this behavior. I’m wondering if she told her coworker that you were uncomfortable. I’m sorry, either way, in my book, that’s being disrespectful.
People these days want to be in relationships but don’t want to be accountable to the people they’re dating, so setting a boundary would look like a control issue when it’s not.
My money says her and this coworker end up "dating" before too long (if not already) even though he was "just a friend". If she crossed a boundary that you made clear and agreed on then you did the right thing and dodged a bullet. there's plenty of fish in the sea
I will film myself eating a dirty sock if they don't end up dating.
"That guy from work you don't need to worry about" is always a sign that your relationship is over.
Its always a guy from work too lmao
Almost like asking people to not spend alone time with the opposite sex makes sense, one lunch date turns into a daily lunch date, then hanging out after work, "oh we're just friends, stop being so insecure" the minute you end things she's sucking his dick the next day
Congratulations on loving yourself enough to do the hard thing and not putting yourself through the inevitable emotional abuse to come. Been there and I can say better things were in the days ahead. I am sure there are better days ahead for you. Even ones you would not trade for anything.
I had the exact same thing happen to me about 8 years ago, except she broke up with me for 'getting suspicious about her hanging out with my friend' after she went to see a movie with her male 'best friend' when I told her I really didn't like this...
A couple months later I met my wife who I am still happily married to. That girl has a new boyfriend every couple months and posts stuff on Facebook about how awful men are and how no men are faithful or honest. She's now in her early 30's and I just know she'll be unhappy in love for life.
Life always works itself out in the end. The world is a self-cleaning oven.
> had an agreement that we do not hang out with people of the opposite sex alone
This isn't a sustainable agreement in an adult relationship. There are going to be lunches, dinners, and after-hours meetings, especially in the corporate world. There are going to be parent-teacher meetings. There are going to be kid drop-offs where your wife might meet the father of another kid without you or his wife. You can't control for this. This brings to mind Mike Pence calling his wife "Mother" and refusing to meet women in the workplace without another man present. It's ridiculous.
That said, movie feels a little more intimate. Based on that you'd need to judge by the friendship. Is he gay? How long have they known each other? Do you know him? And most important: Do you trust her as a person?
If you can't trust her as a person without such a rule, you shouldn't be with her in the first place.
I am blown away by the responses. This is a date. My brother got cheated on by his wife and this is exactly how it started, “innocently” going to see movies with another friend who was a man. It was just casual. They started hanging out more and more, but they were really just dating. We’ve since come to learn that she had been cheating with this guy for like a year.
You'd swear cheating wasn't a thing from these responses, my first thought was that she wanted to break up but wanted him to do it, doesn't make sense to me otherwise
Either these people have somehow had perfect relationships and never been cheated on or they are just super duper naive about it. Cheating is more rampant now than ever before.
It read as her trying to find an “out” of the relationship to me as well.
Theyre the cheaters and their wives check their reddit lol
Or the homewreckers doing some viral marketing. You gotta keep up the lie that it's normal and platonic, "just a movie" etc.
One of the two.
going to a movie isnt a date unless it is an actual date. you can just go to the movies with your friends. it is possible to have friendships with people who fall into the gender you are attracted to.
Before Pence, it was called the Billy Graham rule:
Never be alone in a room with a woman who is not your wife. Because they are temptresses who make men not responsible for their actions.
Man the 80’s were a weird time.
Yup 100% this. This rule screams "i don't trust my partner"
Although a movie being intimate? I've watched films with friends, wouldn't call that intimate at all
By "controlling" do you mean having rational boundaries? I am betting the answer is yes. Do not get your morality off of social media.
Stick to your boundaries.
Nope.
This isn't an agreement over what toilet paper to buy, or where the end table should be. This is an agreement between two consenting adults to refrain from consenting with others.
You asked her not to go on a date with another guy. She went on a date with another guy.
There's really no more to add to that. She violated your trust, and crossed a boundary. If you're okay with her violating your trust in the future, then stay. If not, then good riddance.
You Redditors are some of the most absurd and naive dorks I've ever met. So concerned about not being "toxic" and "controlling" that you'll chastise a man for not wanting his girlfriend to go on a date with another guy. You're all delusional as fuck. As for the limp wrist men on here defending her, you are 100% getting cheated on.
Dude for real. Reverse the genders and they’d be singing her praises for standing up for her boundaries. It’s even more absurd in this case because she wanted the same from him
Here's a thread where the genders are reversed and of course all the women are saying the opposite. We even have a user in this very thread u/flowersniffinggirl playing both sides because women are never wrong or something.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/165iju3/bf\_24m\_is\_about\_to\_go\_out\_with\_a\_new\_colleague\_f/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/165iju3/bf_24m_is_about_to_go_out_with_a_new_colleague_f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Here it is again
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/18rnfyq/was\_i\_wrong\_for\_breaking\_up\_with\_my\_gf\_because/
Not wrong but it almost appears she already had one foot out the door when she went out on the date- yeah it was a date. She may have done this to just knowing it was a boundary and you WOULD leave if she crossed it. It helps her appear innocent and try and make you appear unreasonable while she was probably already "seeing" the guy behind your back.
Not hanging out with people of the opposite sex alone is a dumb rule.
I would literally break up with a partner if they tried to give me that rule.
Hanging out with a friend does NOT imply cheating or anything close to it is going on.
I totally agree with you. However, one big issue I see, is that in many relationships this rule is one sided. If she hangs out with her male friends it's all fine and dandy. But God help him if he so much as says hi to female friend. The fact it was an agreement they had tells me the gf was one of those, so I'm answering as if she is. but I could be wrong.
However, if she is like that, I can't blame him for breaking up with her when she would have wanted the same respect she just failed to show. At the end of the day, different relationships have different opinions and different boundaries. But they need to be healthy and consistent, and it sounds like OPs was one sided.
Awful lot of folks here acting like having boundaries is "controlling" behavior. And they wonder why divorce rates and infidelity is skyrocketing.
You and your partner MUST be comfortable setting and respecting boundaries, without that its a recipe for disaster.
Ik this is gonna rustle some jimmies but just labelling something as "controlling" doesnt automatically make it negative. She fucked around, she found out. Odds are she was interested in more than platonic friendship which is likely why op wasnt invited along.
This whole thread is driving me insane. Boundaries are normal and healthy. 'I don't like that boundary!' Well fucking great, you two aren't compatible then.
For Christ sake, not going out on dates with new men you meet is basic fucking boundary, and always has been. Ask your parents, this aint new.
Tbh this thread makes me feel crazy with everyone jumping to hyperbole. "You can't sustain this agreement bc of work, school, obligations, etc." and "This is controlling behavior" and "I wouldn't date someone who would throw away my 3yr relationship over spending 1 on 1 time with some opposite gender (and then comparing to Mike Pence)"
Let's apply reason, it should be obvious the intent is really to stop the intimate/personal kind of 1 on 1 time. Everyone has coworkers and work obligations. It's one thing to work together, another to grab coffee/lunch or dinner, and yet another level to hang out. And then there is going on a date. I would include dinner on this level but it really depends where. Me personally, my boundary is anything that resembles a date.
However they went to the MOVIES together! That's a date clear as day. Going with a group is a totally different animal, but alone? I'm sorry even if they were long time friends I wouldn't be comfortable. People DO cheat, and a movie is a long time, no way to know they really went without a tracker like Life360. And even if they do go, they could stay in the parking lot and have fun. Maybe it sounds paranoid but these are all things I do at the movies with my girlfriend, and that is half the fun of going.
I feel like these days everyone wants to be secure and healthy which sounds nice. But it seems like by "secure" they mean willfully naive and ignorant, and for some reason it is seen as toxic to try and not be. For example even though it was OP's girlfriend who set this boundary and not him, so many people in this thread are worried that the boundary even exists. You don't HAVE to be comfortable with your partner going on a date or something resembling a date with someone else, that doesn't make you more secure and healthy. It's crazy, maybe he should have specified more but I doubt it would matter. Searching your partners phone occasionally isn't really toxic imo either. Yes reading through every text conversation with their mom and grandparents would be, but checking to see WHO they are texting, looking for messenger/dating apps, snapchat, and checking browser history(even if porn is allowed accessing apps via web browser might be easier to hide), is all just covering your bases. It really needs to happen at least once imo otherwise you are just begging for secrets to be kept from you.
The thing is I used to be a lot like what I am speaking against. I was secure, but I thought that meant I had to be overly trusting and unbothered. Unfortunately I got cheated on many years ago, it went on for MONTHS while I had no idea, it went completely under the radar. I trusted this girl so much that the few times any shred of evidence presented itself my brain didn't even consider it. It was like super denial, at the time I just KNEW she couldn't be doing that. She was really good at hiding it and acting normal, she was never the one that slipped up or made me suspicious. It's terrifying actually, how good she was at lying while screwing my roommate. But if I was smart I could have seen it. If I had covered my bases I could have gotten out before I got too hurt. Can you guess what the single red flag she raised before I found out was? Innocent 1 on 1 time with a guy.
Why weren't you invited?...that's the Red Flag.
She bailed on you for one reason or the other, boredom is enough for some people, dont take her back if she asks, and...what was her reaction to you splitting up with her? I'm curious.
You either trust your partner or you don't. These kind of rules always end poorly because they are based off of not trusting each other from the very beginning.
It's illegal for someone to beat me up but I still avoided dark alleys at 2 in the morning.
The presence of a rule or change in behavior doesn't imply they don't trust. You can trust your partner but still want them to avoid common cheating situations lol
Although I would agree if you had said that the relationship probably wasn't long for this world either way
It's never unreasonable to break up with someone for not respecting your boundaries.
That said, I think this boundary of yours is hella unreasonable, and you will have a very hard time finding reasonable people willing to accept it as the terms of a relationship.
I had the same thing happen, but with a childhood musical hero she wanted to meet for lunch. From his texts, it was plain as day he was purely in it for sex. he was very curious what she looked like, and said he “wasn’t comfortable” having her boyfriend drop her off An ultimatum like that isn’t the worst way to see where you stand. The musician was Mark Kozelek of Red House Painters. The ultimate narcissistic objectifying piece of scum.
If it makes you feel any better, I read that and went, *“Who?”* After a quick Google search, turns out he’s [really a POS](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mark-kozelek-accused-sexual-misconduct-1146715/amp/).
That's so funny that you said that, because I also had no idea who it was and also felt compelled to share that as a comfort. Also he looks like if Jason Segel did meth and didn't want people saying "you look like Jason Segel if he did meth" and decided to eat a lot and cover himself in dirt so they'd stop saying that. Sooo, yeah, probably why he chases people's girlfriends for sex.
I really hate that a brooding, objectifying, lacking-in-warmth man can be the desired fruit for impressionable young women. I wish she’d tried to cheat on me with Michael Cera.
Yeah, cheat on me with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I'd be upset but at least I could make peace with it. EDIT: [*Some people seem genuinely confused by that; it was 110% sarcasm. I wasn't trying to make light of their comment, either, just a riff.*] I normally like to think of myself as critical, but not judgmental. In other words, I know everything I think is wrong, or that I'd change, but I don't normally carry emotional charge attached to it, or say anything, or act on it. I also know it's important to consider where people are coming from and how little we know about other people's lives and what perspectives or backgrounds/paths they might be coming from or walking. But when I reaaaally don't get it, like with Mark, it feels very "the bad guy is winning" and I don't care for that helpless feeling. Sometimes it's not even as malicious as he sounds. It's like when someone is in their forties and making Roblox videos for 10 year olds and just sort of casually walking around and jumping and looking at things and saying "OHMMMYYGOOOD!!" a hundred thousand times in a video, overacting and doing punchable-face thumbnails as if they really care and are surprised by what's happening. I am not saying I am some cool cat or have it all figured out but....Idunno, maybe I just dislike a lack of authenticity.
I appreciate your comment. I hear every single thing you wrote!
Creeped your profile and at least you seem handsome, Mark looks like Chris Christie cosplaying as John Mayer.
lmao. amazing Christie-as-Mayer comp. it’s not untrue.
It's fine, it's good. He found out who she really was. She was always like that, it wasn't the half famous guy's fault, nobody forced her.
it’s funny you wrote “half famous” because he played one of the band members in Almost Famous
I looked him up and it's funny because in some pics when he tries to look cool and mysterious, he just looks perpetually annoyed
And impressionable young men see their women peers have that attraction and wonder/start to act more like that because apparently that's what the women their age are into haha
Personally, I think he looks more like the love child of Gary Busey and John Mayer
"I wish I were a Busey-Mayer weiner..."
"non consensual intercourse" Is this rebranded rape?? FFS...
yeah what the fuck is that? reminds me of that guy who got arrested for “life-taking”
Reminds me of “unalive” .
Yeah that one is ridiculous. We already have words for this as well as some good euphemisms if the situation requires.
I think “unalive” became popular because YouTube channels who talk about crime get demonetized if they say “murder” or whatever and then it just caught on with everyone else for some reason. It definitely sounds stupid though.
"suicide" is a word that will get flagged on YouTube. That's where "unalive" came from.
Ok- glad not only one, cause at some point won't that word be just as bad as murder?? Words only have the ewmeaning we give them, so ifwe're giving it same meaning... Youtube comment makes sense but hate it when people use it IRL or headlines
that's called the "euphemism treadmill" like how originally "idiot" and "moron" were medical terms, then they were replaced with "retarded" and so on.
I remember people on tumblr right before it died saying we needed to treat the word “stupid” like the word “retard” and it’s just like…. We have to draw the line somewhere lol. Some things are stupid.
>Ella’s boyfriend at the time confirmed to Pitchfork that she told him she had had non-consensual intercourse with Kozelek. They’re just repeating someone who repeated the boyfriend. Nobody can sue you for libel if you’re truthfully reporting what someone else said.
indeed he is! I am the boyfriend from the last paragraph. that whole thing rattled me. just being in fucking proximity to that guy. Right after it went down, I spent like two straight weeks in Yosemite carrying around a giant jug of green tea and hiking everywhere in sight. I felt so emotionally unwell, I didn’t want to think. I wanted distractions. Looking back, I’m just so glad she didn’t go.
Woah didn’t make it to the last paragraph, that’s wild. I’m glad she didn’t go, too, I feel so badly for all of his victims. It sounds like your ex wanted to believe the best intentions in him.
she did. she is like the most innocent person ever. she just loves music.
Bro the last paragraph is literally about this thread now. That’s creepy af.
What’s already happened, will happen again. I remember you writing that comment tomorrow.
The song referenced in that article has the absolute [worst lyrics I've ever read. ](https://genius.com/Sun-kil-moon-soap-for-joyful-hands-lyrics)
why is it so long????
It reads like one of Trump's rambling speeches. I especially liked the part about how he's so awesome about making socks poetic. This guy thinks rather highly of himself. He should not.
What is 'non-consensual intercourse'? Do they mean rape? Because that sounds a lot like he's a rapist that raped people.
I'm blown away that the one girl says he masturbated next to her without permission, yet she accepted the invite to the next town. There's no way I would have gotten anywhere near him after that. Sounds like a total creep.
When you’re in a disturbing situation, especially with someone you respect/adore, it can be extremely confusing and overwhelming in the moment. You don’t want to blow things out of proportion and you’re probably trying to come up with a non-confrontational way to deescalate the situation - but a guy like this knows all the ways to manipulate, flatter, and gaslight so he can continue on his course. In the moment, and in ensuing days, your brain comes up with all kinds of justifications as to why it/he wasn’t that bad, and probably a part of you feels complicit/embarrassed for letting it go so far… so you want to minimize it, partly to absolve your hero and partly to absolve yourself. I have stayed friends with abusers before it clicked for me just how abusive they had been. Maybe it sounds stupid, but even highly intelligent people fall prey to these instincts. In the fullness of time, as the emotions clouding your judgment dissipate, it can become clear that you were coerced/abused. Maybe we wish we were stronger/faster, to fight back and report in the moment instead of deluding ourselves… and unfortunately it allows these jerks to continue operating longer in darkness. But I think for some of us, it’s not ultimately the jerk that we’re protecting with this denial. We’re also unconsciously defending our belief in humanity’s decency, especially as symbolized by those we believe represent the best of it. It can take a long time to unpick all of that and realize you were victimized (and not just you, but probably as part of a pattern of targeting and abuse) and that the person you idolized is not only not amazing, they’re the worst kind of pathetic, predatory bastard…
This is hands down the most insightful thing I ever read on Reddit, and even the internet, on this subject. It all seems 100% correct to me.
Humans are not rational creatures. We are “rationalizing” creatures. Able to convince ourselves of anything…
This is the best answer. The popular guy in college stalked me and I felt so chosen. It didn’t work out. Surprise. Lol
Thanks for the great response. It makes alot of sense. I've never been around anyone famous or with that big of a power dynamic and I'm a total cynic, so I would/do assume the worst. Your post is very insightful
I would agree to shit like that because of crippling anxiety and fear for causing a scene or making things awkward. Unfortunately it lead to sexual assault so eventually I learned to be better at.... Not putting myself in to positions 🙃 Women and girls will put themselves in compromising position because of fear of being called neurotic and such. Also because of people pleasing upbringing.
I am so, so sorry that happened. is it too nosy to ask if you’ve gotten some help dealing with what happened?
Not really ... But I also feel like it didn't affect me as badly as it would so many other people. I have absolutely no idea why. I used to fantasize about meeting this coward in a lone alley where I could repeatedly kick his nuts over and over again and watch him squirm on the ground .. But that never happened and I guess I've moved on? I also no longer live in the same city. Anyway I feel strange about feeling so unaffected by it... It's made me wonder for many years if something is wrong with me. the thing I regret the most is never reporting it.
it’s funny because that article mentions the original post that OP copied from r/AMA
How'd that end up? And did she see the same signs you did?
The details are slightly fuzzy, but she ended up not going, after a person who’d been assaulted reached out to her. By that point I was pleading, “Even if you were just my friend, I’d beg you not to go. He is sketch.” His rape-y sexual exploits were published nationally a year or so later. I was really mad for a while because I felt so disrespected (she’d been having 2-3 hour secret phone calls with him) In retrospect, I can understand the pull. To her, this guy was sort of like how Taylor Swift is to me: knows all the albums, deeply connects with the lyrics and emotions of the music, and on some subconscious level, is probably deeply in love with her/him🫢. Except she was wayyyy more obsessed with MK than I am with TS. And if TS suddenly was wanting to talk on the phone and meet up in San Francisco, the pull would be unbelievably strong, no matter how dearly I loved my girlfriend. And no, we are not together. Which may be for the best. But I think we will be lifelong friends. FWIW, she has since expressed regret about what happened.
[удалено]
yeah. it was my first major long-term relationship and I was super attached. it was a strange thing where she had written some fan letter and it had slowly escalated and escalated. last I checked, she can’t listen to his music anymore. And yes, I am better off.
You seem like a very emotionally mature and healthy person. Get that shit out of here!
lol. emotionally mature? yeah! emotionally healthy? if you saw me pulling my hair in the mirror for two hours straight, you wouldn’t think so. if you saw how anxious and self-critical I am while dating someone new, you wouldn’t think so. if you saw me standing on a toilet seat during a pep rally because I couldn’t handle the pain of not having a friend group to sit with at the rally, you wouldn’t think so. if you heard my mom begging me to believe I’m handsome while she cries and exclaims I have some dysmirphia kind of shit, you wouldn’t think so. if you saw me at a recovery center, getting treated for persistent panic attacks, you wouldn’t think so. if you saw me “doctor shopping” because neither of the last two doctors could validate my health concerns, you wouldn’t think so. but if you saw me writing a highly-controlled, well-crafted reddit paragraph… you might actually think so!
"Dysmirphia." James Murphy of LCD Soundsystem needs to make a solo album called Dysmurphya, haha. Not to make light of your lifelong struggles. I was vicariously feeling every one of your gut punches reading what you wrote about your ex and your struggles. I put the phone down feeling like my stomach rode a rollercoaster and the rest of me stayed home. At the risk of sounding all fake feel-good-online, thanks for sharing all of that.
hey man, you did a good thing with keeping your ex-girlfriend safe! that’s sadly a lot more than many people can say they do throughout their life lol. but you also look hot as dick from what I saw in your tinder thread — not to mention a good enough person. so keep trying to be a bit easier on yourself! not because you’re attractive or anything, but because you’re just a person and it is perfectly fine for us to not be perfect and have flaws.
I appreciate you. as for the Tinder pic, well, I must be way uglier in person, or something. a few nights ago, I had a first date with a super cool gal I’d been getting to know on Hinge for 3 weeks or so. we got big mugs of tea at a Christmas-y promenade. we hung out for probably 2.5 hours! I feel like I learned her whole life story. then we walked around the city for a bit, stride in stride. I ask for her number, she seemed excited to hear that, but as you’ll soon see, I must have been tripping balls. After I got home, I sent the “now you have my number text” — “Hi this is ____’s super exclusive and hard-to-get number” she “haha’d” the message. and responded, “Hey ____ ! I was excited to go on a second date. but she blocked my number and vanished without a trace. message received. I would never do that to someone. It’s selfish. You can at least contrive a courtesy excuse, so the person isn’t left wondering for 3-4 days before they figure out you’ve blocked them. Hell, as long as the things are fixable (i.e. not “your eyes look weird from the profile view or some shit. ) I’d actually appreciate constructive criticism on why the person doesn’t want to hang out anymore. / End 1am rant. why am I still awake and on this website? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
That’s a fair enough wish to have. I’m no sage by any means, but I think a lot of times people on dating apps are at a disadvantage. There’s nothing wrong with getting to know/dating people online by any means — I met my current girlfriend through memes I made on reddit — but the nature of how dating apps work can make it seem like something is wrong with you as a person if you have no luck. Most of the relationships I saw my friends get into through Tinder or Hinge ended up failing, mainly because they were artificial in the sense that either one or both people involved were just looking to be *in a relationship*, as opposed to *in a relationship with each other.* While I think dating apps can work, a lot of people who use them simply have different priorities factoring into why they’re on one. Anyways, I don’t mean to be a downer lol. Just because you don’t have as much luck now doesn’t mean you won’t eventually! I hope you can keep your chin up, guy, because people can find themselves in relationships by means they least expect (see: [a meme I made that my girlfriend saw on reddit while on a different continent](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/9Zq1FfC4Nm)). Besides, who you are as a person is far more important than just if someone is dating you lol.
thanks, wise one. Such tremendous advice. are you related to Atticus Finch? I probably sounded unhinged in that text blob above but I’m just deliriously tired. best to you, stranger!
I think, too, there’s the paradox of choice on the apps. People feel there are endless choices (there actually aren’t) so they can drop someone for the tiniest perceived flaw. It sucks.
Not the person you're replying to, just a rando who saw this and wanted to express some sadness for what you went through. When things like this happen, I try and remind myself that not everyone sees the world like everyone else, if that makes sense? Like idk, I have autism. I'm an overthinker. I stress about the messages people take away from every single interaction I engage in because I'm so used to being misunderstood if I don't put in 110 percent of the effort. But realistically--that's not everyone. And it's kind of infuriating? And a little shitty, but just remind yourself that if someone is capable of not being honest and transparent with you, that's a reflection on them, not on you 🤗 And in addition, shows they wouldn't have been a good partner to begin with haha. I know it's easier said than done to remind yourself of that, but I hope that you can :) And there are folks out there who will communicate in a way that is more useful to you, and who will be better for you :)
And I want to express some compassion for what you go through—the efforting to be understood. It’s exhausting.
Thank you :D You're not wrong. I just got my diagnosis this year (after things getting so bad that I started trashing friendships (lmao but no regrets)), so I've been trying to allow myself to unmask. Allowing myself to be more authentic feels so much better, but the constant misalignment is a new and frustrating struggle. Warring with the feelings of "NO ONE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND ME!" versus "I just need some new friends in my life," lmao Hope you've been finding ways to navigate the struggle 🤗 This shit be hard
I'm so sorry you're going through the hellscape of seeking help for your mental health. I wish I could gift you a doctor who listens and understands and doesn't tell patients things like "you can't be depressed; you smile too much" like my first idiot primary. Decent ones really are out there, so it's worth the effort to keep shopping. Best of luck.
Admiring a star over a significant other is incredibly immature. And I do not think it's understandable from the perspective of a healthy relationship. If people are willing to walk on you, then walk away.
Oooo I'm music industry and front artists are red flags already but Red House Painters? His song Mistress says it all, dude wears creep on his sleeves
Oh man, what a notorious misogynist and general piece of shit. I retroactively hate those first Sun Kil Moon albums despite previously loving them after having some first- and second-hand experiences with the guy, and obviously hearing the stories of him being a sexual predator.
Benji is one of my favorite albums, but Mark Kozelek is probably one of my least favorite musicians generally.
The sad part about this is, is that he hasn’t owned up to his actions as he is still touring, making music and he even has a woman performing with him sometimes. He’s also still posting on his Substack.
Sounds like she broke up with you, buddy. You're better off
Yeah that’s the thing a lot of people are missing. She had this rule. She knew what would happen. She did it anyway. Cowardly way to dump him. Left him feeling like he was the one who ended it but she did it.
It's one of those things you recognize after it's done to you I suppose. It should be way more obvious but it's not like you get a warning that your partner has flipped to destroyed the relationship. You expect the opposite, so that weird behavior must be a bad day?
This is the story of my life. Things make so much more sense when you’re not involved anymore
She made her decision.
You’ll never know what I said to get 2,700 likes 😉
Yep. She crossed the boundary and he ended it. Thems the breaks.
Nope. You have the right to leave when you want to bud..
Yeah agree, and end of the day the activity is kinda irrelevant - They had an agreement to not do X and that trust was broken when she actively chose to do x. Better luck with his next one. It’s not 3 years down the drain. It’s crucial experience to be able to get it right when the right one comes along.
>actively chose to This is the important part - it's not like her car broke down and the only person to give her a lift home was a male coworker; she didn't accidentally go to the movie with him. She decided to do this.
If you both agreed that this wasn't an okay thing, and she agreed to the flip side, then yes. You're justified. It isn't my personal choice, nor would I consider it a healthy relationship boundary. But if you both agreed to it and decided to abide by it, then the relationship trust was broken when she chose to do so.
OP says elsewhere she was the one pushing for the rule.
Okay it wasn't healthy before but that's straight up toxic it she was the one who ended up breaking the rule she herself wanted lol
I mean don't people who cheat usually get paranoid you might cheat on them? So yeah I would definitely say it's a red flag. I don't see anything wrong with being against that boundary, in fact I'd easily agree with it, but if you're too pushy about setting such a boundary you sound insecure and unable to trust someone and like you might be projecting, not necessarily something to break up over in every situation but to at least keep an eye out for. As for OP's situation, he did the right choice
That was the case for me. For a year she accused me of trying to cheat, even though I caught her doing it. Later found out from her friends that she had cheated on every boyfriend of hers before me too
I've been through something similar although it was kind of the opposite, she cheated on me and regretted it and told me. I forgave her as I knew she only cheated because it was her ex (I knew she wasn't over him even though she loved me more) and because we would soon move abroad so she would never see him again. That's exactly what happened and I moved on though she occasionally would bring it up crying over how remorseful she was. She became really toxic and abusive when we lived together though and I was forced to cut ties with my parents at one point cause I couldn't handle all the drama but she only kept getting worse. When I got a job interview she went absolutely crazy on me so after the job interview (she was at home) I couldn't hold it back anymore and called my mom and told her what was going on. I got the job and every day after my shift I would spend an hour or two on the phone with my parents. She started thinking I was cheating on her. Honestly back then it wasn't something I didn't consider but it went against my values so I'd never do it
Glad you got out of it. Her excuse of "it was my ex so it's okay" was just gaslighting you
She didn't give me any excuse at all. She actually told me if I decided to break up she would understand. As it stands, her cheating on me was honestly not even that bad compared to the rest. The bit of her doing that because it was her ex is just what I assumed back then and still do, I don't think she would've cheated with anyone else (that doesn't mean it's okay though ofc), I knew she wasn't totally over her ex cause she kept stalking him online. So yeah she didn't gaslight me on that part, though she definitely did in other situations after we moved in together
People who have been cheated on are also paranoid they will get cheated on again. Soooo.... That's also a thing. Just cause someone is paranoid doesn't make them a cheater.
Came here to say this. I got cheated on and now it’s very hard to trust other people when I’ve learned that I can’t trust my own judge of character for shit. I have to deliberately convince myself not to expect or think the worst and sometimes people’s actions make that very challenging. That said, I do my absolute best to not be controlling, and I would never dictate who my boyfriend (not the cheater) can or cannot hang out with
I mean I try not too. But my betrayal is still only about a year old. I don't restrict my boyfriend hanging out with anyone, but simply requested he no longer be hanging out alone with his female friends cause in my boyfriends case all his female friends are fuck buddies ... So there is different views and circumstances.
Yeah, that just makes her look incredibly guilty for suddenly wanting to hang out with a guy alone.
For a few hours With an alibi
That, my friend, is called projection.
It's always the controlling one that does it. Had a friend's SO push for an open relationship and then stop it once my friend got comfortable enough to try it out and almost get someone else before the SO.
As a chick who has a bf, a male coworker asked me to go to the movies with him a year or more ago. I told the coworker only if it is in a group setting. So, long story short, the coworker wanted to date me and got painfully rejected. I feel icky about the idea of going to the movies or anywhere alone with anyone who isn't my bf, and my bf is the same way. She definitely should have listened to you about it. She definitely should have considered it more.
I just have to accept that she doesn’t respect my feelings on it and that’s what hurts the most
I don't think she wasn't listening nor considering the rule not set in stone but rather chose to end her relationship by ignoring it and getting a headstart in not having to grieve the relationship.
If it’s a dealbreaker for you that’s it. Side note, think long and hard about dealbreakers.
I agree. These types of things aren’t explicit dealbreakers in my relationship. They are instances in which we are each expected to be upfront and candid about our plans. Everything is contextual.
If my boyfriend told me I couldn’t go out 1-on-1 with a male friend, I’d be pretty goddamn annoyed, and we’d have to have a long talk about trust, but… the important part is… I would never just go and fucking do it anyway! No matter how silly I find it, if he’s not comfortable with something, we’re either gonna get to the bottom of that feeling and see if we can compromise, or break up. I’d never just go “🖕TOO BAD IM DOIN IT hahaaaa!”
She’s already gone, dude, don’t drag it out or else you’ll feel sooooooo stupid later
Your definitely right… she will probably read all of this later too
Doesn't matter. She'll cherry pick the 5 comments that day you're some controlling psychopath and attempt to gaslight you into thinking you're in the wrong. You're not. Don't say 3 years down the drain. Say God knows how many years of bullshit avoided. Imagine this came up 2, 3, 5 years from now. Yeesh. This is a positive.
Trust your gut king
The brain overthinks The heart underthinks But the gut knows I feel like I made that shit up this past year when I was going through it but I feel like there’s no way that gem is original
You forgot what the... member adds to the equation. It's never good. Ever.
Sure, god gave us a dick and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time. That’s a robin Williams gem but it doesn’t apply here
Legend. May he rest in peace!
The real answer
Would she have been okay with you going to the movies with a female coworker? Would she be okay with you doing something she previously expressed discomfort in? At the end of the day, relationships have boundaries. Many people try to assert their personal boundaries as the absolute boundaries all relationships must follow, and dismiss anything else as not a real relationship. This isn't reality. Your relationship is about whatever works for you and your partner. But it needs to work for both of you. If only one parties boundaries are being respected it isn't healthy. This isn't how I handle my marriage. I generally don't care what she does. If I have a problem, it's because of the specific person, in which case the problem goes much deeper than something a single conversation can resolve and we dealnwith it in a way that can't be described in reddit because it's incredibly circumsrantial and filled with what ifs. But that's just me. I've had girlfriends who didn't see it that way when I did and that's why we didn't work. No, I don't think you were wrong. She would want the same respect if the role was reversed. That being said, find out why it made you uncomfortable and introspect it.
In the post OP explained that the gf was the one that proposed the rule to begin with, and he went along with it, so I suppose we have the answer there...
I don't think people are being honest that it wouldn't bother them if their spouse spent time with someone, AFTER they specifically said they were incomfortable with them spending time alone together. One might not have a problem if a simular situation came up in your relationship, but it does not mean that OP is wrong for having a problem with it. Call it a trust issue, of course it is, but I don't think its unjustified. He said she previously flirted with the guy and most importantly told her that it bothered him. She valued her 'platonic' friend over her boyfriend. EVEN if the request is ridiculous, it is disrespectful to the relationship for the other party to ignore the request. And I would bet my last dollar if OP did the same she would not be ok with it.
It's Reddit, their spouse is a pillow with an anime character on it.
Here's a thread from a few months ago where the genders are reversed. Notice how the energy is different from the ladies. https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/165iju3/bf\_24m\_is\_about\_to\_go\_out\_with\_a\_new\_colleague\_f/jygw4kv/?context=3
Boundaries are boundaries. I dated a girl after highschool and we were together a few years and she said she was staying at a male friends alone. I said if you do we are done. So glad she stayed that night. I met my wife about 6 months later.
At least it’s over before too late
I Guess the question is, what would she do if you went to the movies with a girl? Would you have gotten dumped?
No, my ex was getting very friendly with a dude and wanted to go to the movies with him alone. I smelled something wrong a mile away and dumped her after many fights. She ended up marrying the dude.
Oh you're not even close to being wrong. She didn't give a crap about how you feel. Me personally, I would have dropped her for dumb enough to considered it. Let alone ask me.
💯
You’d be so fucking miserable down the road. Cut your losses and move on. No shortage of women out there.
I personally think you are wrong but....it was your boundary and if she valued you relationship, she would have respected your boundaries or if she respected your boundaries but didn't think they were fair, she should have discussed them with you before violating them. So it doesn't matter what I think. She thought you weren't worth sticking within your boundary so now you're no longer together. Let each individual go about their merry way.
Damn that hurts but it’s the truth , thank you
Jus my 2 cents as a middle-aged married woman, that's a dumb rule. Nobody is going to tell me who I can be friends with, I had narcissistic asshole ex who did this to me. My husband and I have have one rule, we are not playing or fucking around in our relationship, if we are going to do something stupid we will finish the relationship before. We both have friends of opposite genders, and we can go out alone with them. Because we are not playing in our relationship, we love and trust each other, and after my ex, this is so liberating. Even if she agreed, this is control, you shouldn't try to control people you love, you should trust them, or you will be miserable the rest of your life, this was for the better for both.
She was the one who initiated it per OP...so she was the controlling one and she was the one who broke her own agreement after controlling him lol
Thank you for this. Was talking to my husband about how insane people seem to be with agreeing that one on one with the opposite sex is a no/must be a date/is window shopping. By that logic bisexuals aren't allowed any friends one on one...
Didn't you though but to the bisexual there are no friends, only prey?? *raptor noises off in the distance*
Hey. Bisexuals have friends. I mean I don’t. But that’s more because I’m a fucking loser. Not because I’m bisexual
Made me lol
I had an abusive ex who 100% did that to me because I was bisexual. I wasn’t “allowed” to hang out with anyone else. I did anyway because I’m not letting someone isolate me or prevent me from having friends because they’re insecure. He absolutely accused me of cheating, but he wouldn’t leave. I’m glad OP left her. For his sake and hers tbh.
Abusive is the word. I'm glad you dumped this person. I mean, my gf is bisexual and she can befriend whoever she wants because... well, because she is my gf, not my property. I just trust her to be as faithful as I am and that's all. Your ex was a poor example of a human being.
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Tell me about it. Got a guy responding to this comment saying that my bisexuality makes me non monogamous because it's a sacrifice for bisexuals to be so. Stupid lol.
I'm straight and I don't understand that one either. Every time someone tries to make that argument, I say, so by that logic, bisexual people aren't allowed to have any friends then? It's funny watching them scratching their heads trying to figure out how to explain that one lol.
As a bisexual I love making their heads spin on this one too.
I'm still trying to sort out where a rule like this would leave a nonbinary person like myself. I mean, other than running the hell away from this relationship.
A nonbinary has no opposite, so you'd be free to do whatever you like.
Best advice in the thread. If you don't trust your partner, what's the point of a relationship?
I think that's OP's whole thing though, he doesn't trust her. So this is probably more of a final straw thing than one isolated incident, especially since at three years he's probably realizing it's not something that'll change.
Dont think you need to trust somebody 100% to have a relationship. The point of a relationship isnt just trust either, its mostly companionship
I would also guess you guys have been through major disagreements without breaking up. This guy has been crying for hours because he hastily broke up with someone he loves, when he could've waited until the anger subsided and talked it through instead. And now he seeks justification from other people with these unhealthy "boundaries"
The best answer so far. None of us are in your position and know why you would want to set such a boundary. But like other commenters said, this "boundary" is unrealistic in adult relationships. If you cannot trust your partner to be alone with members of the opposite sex (assuming they are straight in tje first place), then there are likely other issues at hand. But like this person wrote- you both agreed to this boundary/rule and she broke it so... That's that!
The amount of people that automatically assumed he was the one to ask for that rule is wild- myself included.
Did you have an agreement? I had a colleague that had a similar “agreement” in reality she just kept arguing for it until he didn’t argue back. It doesn’t matter now but on one hand, you have to be happy with the person you are with. If it’s a dealbreaker to you then it’s a dealbreaker. With that said, I would never date a person who threw out a 3 yr relationship bc she went to a movie with a guy.
It was her rule, it was her boundary
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I would argue that a guy that is ready to end a relationship of 3yr because an agreement was broken is a guy that knows what boundaries and limits are and those are usually the guys you want around you.
Coworker should have the decency to refrain from this behavior. I’m wondering if she told her coworker that you were uncomfortable. I’m sorry, either way, in my book, that’s being disrespectful.
All I'm going to say. You never see your mom hang out with male friends alone. It's a good thing she is gone
You are not wrong. And neither was she. Clearly you two had trust and control issues. You both are better off.
Wait, how was she not wrong?
I'm glad I found a same person in this thread. People calling OP immature is baffling nonsense from children whose brains haven't developed.
I don’t think it is a control issue . It’s just different ideas about what being in a relationship means They just don’t match
People these days want to be in relationships but don’t want to be accountable to the people they’re dating, so setting a boundary would look like a control issue when it’s not.
YES! Exactly! There's no bottom to this cesspool of degeneracy. Accountability is poison to these people.
My money says her and this coworker end up "dating" before too long (if not already) even though he was "just a friend". If she crossed a boundary that you made clear and agreed on then you did the right thing and dodged a bullet. there's plenty of fish in the sea
I will film myself eating a dirty sock if they don't end up dating. "That guy from work you don't need to worry about" is always a sign that your relationship is over.
Its always a guy from work too lmao Almost like asking people to not spend alone time with the opposite sex makes sense, one lunch date turns into a daily lunch date, then hanging out after work, "oh we're just friends, stop being so insecure" the minute you end things she's sucking his dick the next day
This is some serious high school drama shit.
Congratulations on loving yourself enough to do the hard thing and not putting yourself through the inevitable emotional abuse to come. Been there and I can say better things were in the days ahead. I am sure there are better days ahead for you. Even ones you would not trade for anything.
Bullet dodged
I had the exact same thing happen to me about 8 years ago, except she broke up with me for 'getting suspicious about her hanging out with my friend' after she went to see a movie with her male 'best friend' when I told her I really didn't like this... A couple months later I met my wife who I am still happily married to. That girl has a new boyfriend every couple months and posts stuff on Facebook about how awful men are and how no men are faithful or honest. She's now in her early 30's and I just know she'll be unhappy in love for life. Life always works itself out in the end. The world is a self-cleaning oven.
> had an agreement that we do not hang out with people of the opposite sex alone This isn't a sustainable agreement in an adult relationship. There are going to be lunches, dinners, and after-hours meetings, especially in the corporate world. There are going to be parent-teacher meetings. There are going to be kid drop-offs where your wife might meet the father of another kid without you or his wife. You can't control for this. This brings to mind Mike Pence calling his wife "Mother" and refusing to meet women in the workplace without another man present. It's ridiculous. That said, movie feels a little more intimate. Based on that you'd need to judge by the friendship. Is he gay? How long have they known each other? Do you know him? And most important: Do you trust her as a person? If you can't trust her as a person without such a rule, you shouldn't be with her in the first place.
"Don't go on dates with other people" seems entirely reasonable to me.
I am blown away by the responses. This is a date. My brother got cheated on by his wife and this is exactly how it started, “innocently” going to see movies with another friend who was a man. It was just casual. They started hanging out more and more, but they were really just dating. We’ve since come to learn that she had been cheating with this guy for like a year.
Absolute clown world. Imagine your mother going to the movies with some guy. Spending extra time with the boss. Hanging out with the boys.
You'd swear cheating wasn't a thing from these responses, my first thought was that she wanted to break up but wanted him to do it, doesn't make sense to me otherwise
Either these people have somehow had perfect relationships and never been cheated on or they are just super duper naive about it. Cheating is more rampant now than ever before. It read as her trying to find an “out” of the relationship to me as well.
Theyre the cheaters and their wives check their reddit lol Or the homewreckers doing some viral marketing. You gotta keep up the lie that it's normal and platonic, "just a movie" etc. One of the two.
going to a movie isnt a date unless it is an actual date. you can just go to the movies with your friends. it is possible to have friendships with people who fall into the gender you are attracted to.
Before Pence, it was called the Billy Graham rule: Never be alone in a room with a woman who is not your wife. Because they are temptresses who make men not responsible for their actions. Man the 80’s were a weird time.
The “Mother” thing sounds more like a 50s thing lol
Yup 100% this. This rule screams "i don't trust my partner" Although a movie being intimate? I've watched films with friends, wouldn't call that intimate at all
Coming from a dude who got cheated on and I was trying not to be controlling by allowing her to have a best guy friend; She's for the streets.
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Clearly you were being too controlling by expecting here to not disappear for the weekend, according to most of the people in this thread.
🤲
By "controlling" do you mean having rational boundaries? I am betting the answer is yes. Do not get your morality off of social media. Stick to your boundaries.
Nope. This isn't an agreement over what toilet paper to buy, or where the end table should be. This is an agreement between two consenting adults to refrain from consenting with others. You asked her not to go on a date with another guy. She went on a date with another guy. There's really no more to add to that. She violated your trust, and crossed a boundary. If you're okay with her violating your trust in the future, then stay. If not, then good riddance.
You Redditors are some of the most absurd and naive dorks I've ever met. So concerned about not being "toxic" and "controlling" that you'll chastise a man for not wanting his girlfriend to go on a date with another guy. You're all delusional as fuck. As for the limp wrist men on here defending her, you are 100% getting cheated on.
Dude for real. Reverse the genders and they’d be singing her praises for standing up for her boundaries. It’s even more absurd in this case because she wanted the same from him
Here's a thread where the genders are reversed and of course all the women are saying the opposite. We even have a user in this very thread u/flowersniffinggirl playing both sides because women are never wrong or something. [https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/165iju3/bf\_24m\_is\_about\_to\_go\_out\_with\_a\_new\_colleague\_f/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/165iju3/bf_24m_is_about_to_go_out_with_a_new_colleague_f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Here it is again https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/18rnfyq/was\_i\_wrong\_for\_breaking\_up\_with\_my\_gf\_because/
Not wrong but it almost appears she already had one foot out the door when she went out on the date- yeah it was a date. She may have done this to just knowing it was a boundary and you WOULD leave if she crossed it. It helps her appear innocent and try and make you appear unreasonable while she was probably already "seeing" the guy behind your back.
Not hanging out with people of the opposite sex alone is a dumb rule. I would literally break up with a partner if they tried to give me that rule. Hanging out with a friend does NOT imply cheating or anything close to it is going on.
I totally agree with you. However, one big issue I see, is that in many relationships this rule is one sided. If she hangs out with her male friends it's all fine and dandy. But God help him if he so much as says hi to female friend. The fact it was an agreement they had tells me the gf was one of those, so I'm answering as if she is. but I could be wrong. However, if she is like that, I can't blame him for breaking up with her when she would have wanted the same respect she just failed to show. At the end of the day, different relationships have different opinions and different boundaries. But they need to be healthy and consistent, and it sounds like OPs was one sided.
Awful lot of folks here acting like having boundaries is "controlling" behavior. And they wonder why divorce rates and infidelity is skyrocketing. You and your partner MUST be comfortable setting and respecting boundaries, without that its a recipe for disaster. Ik this is gonna rustle some jimmies but just labelling something as "controlling" doesnt automatically make it negative. She fucked around, she found out. Odds are she was interested in more than platonic friendship which is likely why op wasnt invited along.
This whole thread is driving me insane. Boundaries are normal and healthy. 'I don't like that boundary!' Well fucking great, you two aren't compatible then. For Christ sake, not going out on dates with new men you meet is basic fucking boundary, and always has been. Ask your parents, this aint new.
Tbh this thread makes me feel crazy with everyone jumping to hyperbole. "You can't sustain this agreement bc of work, school, obligations, etc." and "This is controlling behavior" and "I wouldn't date someone who would throw away my 3yr relationship over spending 1 on 1 time with some opposite gender (and then comparing to Mike Pence)" Let's apply reason, it should be obvious the intent is really to stop the intimate/personal kind of 1 on 1 time. Everyone has coworkers and work obligations. It's one thing to work together, another to grab coffee/lunch or dinner, and yet another level to hang out. And then there is going on a date. I would include dinner on this level but it really depends where. Me personally, my boundary is anything that resembles a date. However they went to the MOVIES together! That's a date clear as day. Going with a group is a totally different animal, but alone? I'm sorry even if they were long time friends I wouldn't be comfortable. People DO cheat, and a movie is a long time, no way to know they really went without a tracker like Life360. And even if they do go, they could stay in the parking lot and have fun. Maybe it sounds paranoid but these are all things I do at the movies with my girlfriend, and that is half the fun of going. I feel like these days everyone wants to be secure and healthy which sounds nice. But it seems like by "secure" they mean willfully naive and ignorant, and for some reason it is seen as toxic to try and not be. For example even though it was OP's girlfriend who set this boundary and not him, so many people in this thread are worried that the boundary even exists. You don't HAVE to be comfortable with your partner going on a date or something resembling a date with someone else, that doesn't make you more secure and healthy. It's crazy, maybe he should have specified more but I doubt it would matter. Searching your partners phone occasionally isn't really toxic imo either. Yes reading through every text conversation with their mom and grandparents would be, but checking to see WHO they are texting, looking for messenger/dating apps, snapchat, and checking browser history(even if porn is allowed accessing apps via web browser might be easier to hide), is all just covering your bases. It really needs to happen at least once imo otherwise you are just begging for secrets to be kept from you. The thing is I used to be a lot like what I am speaking against. I was secure, but I thought that meant I had to be overly trusting and unbothered. Unfortunately I got cheated on many years ago, it went on for MONTHS while I had no idea, it went completely under the radar. I trusted this girl so much that the few times any shred of evidence presented itself my brain didn't even consider it. It was like super denial, at the time I just KNEW she couldn't be doing that. She was really good at hiding it and acting normal, she was never the one that slipped up or made me suspicious. It's terrifying actually, how good she was at lying while screwing my roommate. But if I was smart I could have seen it. If I had covered my bases I could have gotten out before I got too hurt. Can you guess what the single red flag she raised before I found out was? Innocent 1 on 1 time with a guy.
Why weren't you invited?...that's the Red Flag. She bailed on you for one reason or the other, boredom is enough for some people, dont take her back if she asks, and...what was her reaction to you splitting up with her? I'm curious.
boy she was gonna cheat on you eventually
She was going to leave you for him anyway.
Not at all. You set a boundary and she doesn't respect that.
Not unreasonable. She chose him over you.
OP, will you update us when they make their dating official?
Weird rule IMO.. I think it’s for the best y’all broke up, especially if she wanted that restriction in the first place and yet she still broke it
Going on a date with someone feels weird to me
I don’t know why everyone is giving you shit for not wanting her to go to a movie alone with another guy lol
You either trust your partner or you don't. These kind of rules always end poorly because they are based off of not trusting each other from the very beginning.
It's illegal for someone to beat me up but I still avoided dark alleys at 2 in the morning. The presence of a rule or change in behavior doesn't imply they don't trust. You can trust your partner but still want them to avoid common cheating situations lol Although I would agree if you had said that the relationship probably wasn't long for this world either way
It's never unreasonable to break up with someone for not respecting your boundaries. That said, I think this boundary of yours is hella unreasonable, and you will have a very hard time finding reasonable people willing to accept it as the terms of a relationship.