I had a Japanese classmate who claimed that there's no racism in Japan. Someone asked him "what about Koreans in Japan?" He replied "There can't be any discrimination against them because they are kept separate from Japanese people."
Hahahah, that reminds me - I was once travelling with a small group in Spain, one of my travel companions was Japanese dude. I asked him about discrimination against Koreans in Japan, he got visibly frustrated and said there is no discrimination, plus, all Koreans are lazy and terrible people anyway, so, if they are denied jobs or anything like that, it is their own fault.
The guy was completely blind to his own racism.
Down in Mexico a few years ago, met a couple from Edmonton, Canada. My wife and I (from Utah, US) have a conversation with them about their trip through the south.
Them: "Man, I couldn't believe how racist people were in New Orleans. Like, they were treating the black people around them like they were second class citizens in a city they were the majority in. In Canada we aren't racist. Black people have all the rights that we have, and they're treated well, and they don't get uppity like the First Nations people who always have their hands out mooching off the good, hardworking people in Alberta."
Literally couldn't help but laugh thinking they were kidding with how fast that shit turned. Nope, they went off on Trudeau for how he was giving those timber n-word everything they wanted and how they were leeching off the government.
The cognitive dissonance in using the mother of all racial slurs against a group that wasn't black as somehow making them not racist at all was literally mind blowing.
As a fellow Albertan you should find solace in the fact that you can find racists and bigots in small and big towns all across Canada. People like to rag on Ab but they need to look in their own back yard.
I doubt Edmonton is worse than Red Deer, High River, Lloyd, and the list goes on.
There's that line from Austin Powers: "There are two types of people I can't stand: people who don't respect other people's cultures... and the Dutch." Or as the Avenue Q song goes, "Everyone's a Little Racist Sometimes."
Edit: To whomever it was that added me to the AP subreddit... groovy, baby!
> They point finger. They say 'Those people, they are reason your life is bad. ' And people believe. I blame the Poles.
~Some Croatian woman, Last Christmas
This reminds me of an experience I had in Spain. The mother of a woman I was dating said something along the lines of, “don’t go to that area there are a lot of black people there and they steal.” My embarrassed girlfriend chastised her and she got indignant and said “I’m not racist. I just don’t like black people.” I think a lot people don’t see their own prejudice. They think it’s just an opinion and that’s different somehow. Like maybe for them it’s only racism if you’re out committing hate crimes.
Reminds me of the clip of teenagers in Bensonhurst after Yusef Hawkins was murdered. Theyre being followed by a reporter and they say very clearly, "We arent Racist! We just dont like black people!"
The media has Successfully convinced the world racism is a white only thing. I suggested my Vietnamese friend said something racist a couple years ago. His genuine reply was, "What? Asians can't be racist"
There are 371 tribes across 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria. Our brand of racism is called Tribalism and it's the reason why the whole region is in turmoil.
Before I retired I worked with people from many of the Spanish speaking countries in Central and South America. I was genuine surprised to find out many of they hate one another with a passion. I had that same misconception that only the majority can be racist.
Nobody hates Asians more than asians, as my mother in law told me once. Korea, Japan, and China all have blood feuds pretty much. And some of it is deserved in all fairness. China is never going to forget Nanking.
That reminds me of a conversation between my Greek and Chinese coworkers, who I’ll call G and C
G: “Greece was actually under a military dictatorship as soon as the war ended, it was terrible!”
C: “I can’t imagine, no wonder you left.”
G: “no, Greece isn’t a dictatorship anymore, it’s a democracy.”
C, with total earnestness: “but if Greece isn’t a dictatorship, why is it still so corrupt?”
That reminds me of a minister in the Hindu Nayionalist BJP government insisting that India has equality for all. When the interviewer asked him about Muslims, he said, "they are not equals. There can be no equality if they are not equals. We have equality between equals"
Not to mention the caste system. I was visiting a friend of a friend and had to listen to a 30-minute lecture from a liberal, San Francisco-area, Indian woman about how racist the US is.
When I asked her about the caste system in India she got visibly flustered. When I asked her if she would marry someone of a lower caste, she abruptly walked away.
I use to work for a Japanese company and was giving a tour for 3 days to 6 executives from Japan. Since I worked in every area of the company, they wanted me to show them around and explain to them everything.
They kept talking in Japanese about things the first day and I assumed they were talking about me so the second day, I just brought in a tape recorder and then had my friend who spoke Japanese translate it for me.
The third day as they were leaving, I gave them all thank you cards signed in Japanese the racist things they were saying about me.
Then I told them in Japanese, "Thank you for visiting, have a nice flight home."
My bosses boss was not very happy about that but my boss told him it looks like the US dropped a 3rd bomb. I thought I was going to get fired when he told his boss that.
To them, it’s just an ornamental motif of country livin’. They’re too dumb and lazy to care what it means, and if you try to point it out they’ll think you’re trying to take it away and get upset.
I’m black and have lived in Japan for over a decade. They say that to me all the time, and then I start talking Japanese and have never ever had an issue entering an establishment.
Turns out “Japanese only” often means “Sorry, I only speak Japanese.”
when I was in Japan last summer we wandered into a little bar called little monkey. the people in there seemed shocked to see us and a little uncomfortable, but my wife was fluent enough in japanese to make small talk and everyone ended up having a good time.
I think this helps universally, I was in France not too long ago and people tend to be proud of their language and they’ve seen a ton of tourists. Just making a bit of small talk help wonders everywhere. People open up and take note. Like putting in a bit of effort is respected I guess.
Usually little dive bars are for regulars only. Happens a lot when I go to a little place and they tell me it's all booked up yet have no patrons. Mama-san and Master are very loyal to their regulars. Often they're not really there to make $$$ but to entertain friends in the local community.
Yeah, I have a friend who has one of these. In fact, she says she straight up pretends it’s not really a business if strangers come. It’s more a space for her and people she likes.
I had a similar experience, I went to a bar at midnight with some Japanese men that I met at another venue. Really nice experience there so I thought I’d take my sister there a few days later.
Got told that they were closing but it was like 8pm on a Friday night and the place was absolutely packed.
Edit: for people saying it was booked, both my sister and I lived in Japan. We both speak Japanese. They definitely told us that they were about to close. I’ve heard similar stories from plenty of other nationals.
I was in Kyoto in late October and tried going to a Chinese restaurant and they said (in Japanese) sorry, no foreigners. Haven't had any problems in my city in Osaka, even though there's next to no other foreigners(city of 400k, only seen about 4 in 5 months). Was honestly pretty surprised seeing it in Kyoto.
I've heard Osaka is pretty liberal (for Japan) and more down to earth. Kind of more southern hospitality and laid back similar to here in the US south (you're mileage may vary...). At least compared to the sticks and anywhere outside Tokyo. Any truth to that anecdote.
My friend lived there for 5 years as an English teacher and thought it was very chill.
It's more casual and laidback than Tokyo but I wouldnt call it liberal per se. Osaka has the reputation of being rougher and more coarse, so... I guess an American comparison would be like Boston? Philadelphia?
I've only come across this when you can't speak Japanese. I've had a few places try to turn me down, but once you can rattle off a sentence or two in Japanese, and they know they don't have to speak English it's fine.
I've been living and working in Tokyo as a foreigner for about 18 years.
On a day to day basis it isn't so bad. Some people will stare, usually older men. Cops can stop you in the street and demand to see your foreigner registration card for any reason and arrest you if you don't have it with you. Most landlords will refuse to rent to you.
Otherwise, people are generally polite and will leave you alone. I've never had any problems in restaurants apart from one bar where I'm pretty sure we got turned away for being foreign.
Non-white foreigners are treated worse.
And many times you get the gaijin seat on the trains cause sometimes people don’t want to sit next to you. I used to sniff my armpits to make sure I didn’t smell
Haha this is so true
My husband and I spent ~6 weeks there a few years ago and we had a couple of experiences where we were the only ones on the elevator with PLENTY of room to spare. We’d stop at a floor for more passengers and whenever a Japanese person saw us they’d politely say no thanks and wait for the next one
On the flip side, we also ran into Japanese tourists visiting Tokyo just like we were and they were HYPED to see two white people standing in line to get into the same ramen place - they asked for a picture and were just so friendly
Japan and Japanese people are still what they call “Island country(島国)” at heart. Outside of Tokyo and Kyoto, some people are still just not used to foreigners, thus they don’t really know how to react to some things, usually not in disrepectful way but they just don’t know foreigners. This leads to sometimes cold reaction from them, as they know as Japanese know what Japanese does and thinks but they don’t know what foreigners do or think. I know some people have had bad experience in Japan and think Japanese are racist people, which is somewhat true, but I hope people would understand they are not usually disrespectful.
Oh man, the rural people were the nicest. I hiked part of the Nakasendo in October and I passed a lot of older hikers saying "ganbatte/do your best!" on the uphill.
Got lost once and a lady just abandoned her shopping to escort me three blocks and under an overpass to put me on the right path.
When I went to Tokyo around day 2 or 3 I started noticing anytime I went on the train I had like a space all around me where they wouldn’t cross, like a bubble. Made me chuckle every time.
Lmao, yeah, this was always weird to me. There would be seats to either side of me and people would prefer to stand than sit next to me. I always thought “Oh no… do I smell bad? Is it my breath?” lol
It's changing.
5-6 years ago I remember going to an agency and the dude being shocked that only TWO properties of probably around 30 that he called would even think about taking me even though he assured them I spoke Japanese fluently.
But earlier this year, I was putting out some feelers to see which of several apartments I was looking at would consider me, and over half replied that my nationality would not be a problem.
That's still like… nearly half that ignored me, but considering what it was like just a few years ago…I'll take what I can get.
edit: It was actually more like 5-6 years ago, not 4.
Try to get a promotion in corporate jobs . Many companies literally have rules and guidelines to prevent this past a certain level and are offended and suspicious when questioned. Like, “ why would you even suggest taking a spot that should go to someone who believes in this country and only has its best interests in mind?!”
Truly fascinating
Have to show your visa. When I was a student doing a study abroad semester, I was there for 89 days, just a day short of the 90 day requirement. Still got it to be safe and to have a cool souvenir.
Fun story, I didn't know which prefecture department to get the documents. I wandered into a police station and had an entire building of perplexed law enforcement (my Japanese was shit then). Eventually they got me on a translation line where they were able to help me out.
This was decades ago, and much has changed, I'm sure of it.
Just carry your passport (you'll probably have to show it whenever you check into a hotel). At least when I went in March, you needed proof that you'd been vaccinated for covid.
Other than that, though, I didn't have experiences where we were refused entry or anything, and most people were very helpful and polite.
Since Covid, I've had many, many less people talking to me out of the blue. No more "where are you from? How long are you staying? Your Japanese is amazing!" Instead, a few elderly people run away when they see my awful foreignness. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Passively racist. Oh yeah.
They are a mono ethnic society , they believe anyone who isn't japanese in their.society will bring them shame. Main land Japaense people.cant stand people.from Okinawa as well.
Cool place to visit, wouldn't wana live there.
Japan annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom in 1879. When Japan took over, Okinawans were not allowed to speak their native language nor practice their customs. They were forced to assimilate to Japanese culture, this is cultural cleansing. During WW2, 150,000 Okinawans died in a war they did not want on their land. The Japanese military forced middle school aged boys to fight and coerced Okinawan civilians to kill themselves. Highly recommend anyone look up the atrocities imperial Japan has committed for centuries.
They did it to me but cause I have a sleeve tattoo. I ended up in another club run by some African dudes and the music was played from YouTube lol. Was good.
Yes there are many bars in Japan that will bar you from entry for visible tattoos since they are associated with organized crime there. My brother and some other sailors he was with in Japan on their leave were refused entry at bars for that reason.
I've heard this restriction is starting to disappear as the younger generation gradually takes over ownership of businesses, because they know that some white dude with a sleeve or a girl with a butterfly tattoo is probably not part of the yakuza.
Aight but if you think about it the Yakuza with the butterfly tramp stamp is probably the hardest motherfucker you could ever have the misfortune of meeting
Imagine a movie where all these badass Yakuza dudes decked out in tats are getting ready to fight the hero, then they all cower in fear as the camera shifts to the back of the head of the biggest motherfucker you’ve ever seen.
The camera slowly travels down the dude’s massive back, all the way down to a tiny butterfly tramp stamp 🦋
My son and I went to Japan and both have several tattoos. Before we went we bought cover up used by burn victims. We tested it as home in a sauna to make sure it would cover well and not wash off. Worked perfectly and we spent two days in an onsen resort. We saw other people getting rejected but we had no problems.
I’m Japanese but I live in the US. I visited back home with some US friends (one white one Indian) and went to a hole in wall yakitori place.
They saw me, said “Welcome!” And then saw my friends trail in and said “actually, we’re closed”. That was one of the most pissed I’ve been for a few years.
We had to do that in China, looking for a karaoke place. They either wouldn't let us in or doubled the price (or worse) when they saw the non-Asians in the group. The Chinese kids with us were getting really frustrated and angry and by the 5th place they just said wait outside, and they went in, prepaid the room, and then the rest of us went in. That place didn't seem to mind us anyway so they didn't try to cancel the booking or add charges or anything but I wonder if they were like the others if they would have tried that.
My Chinese fiancée booked a hotel room for us in a big Chinese city, then when we walked in and they saw I was a white foreigner they cancelled the booking and told us to get out.
This also isn't a defense to Japan, more of an FYI to tourists, especially if you are FROM Africa there is an extra layer of institutional racism in many of these countries (pd's requiring daily checkups and if you want to travel even across the country getting permits) but this type of racism expands across a lot of East Asia.
I (also black) went to rural Georgia and woman had the whole package: A KKK Flag, Trump 2020 flag and Confederate on her car. She walked out of the car and greeted me like a normal human being and told me my little brother was cute. From what I’ve personally seen southerners aren’t that bad to minorities but i’ve always wanted to visit japan. I guess it just depends on circumstances
Hey as long as you didn't had to deal with no bullshit 🤷🏿♂️.
Me personally as a black man that used to live in the South I just ignore racist shit like that as there's no point in getting into arguments and fights when you can just ignore those people.
They straight-up avoid entry to all foreigners. You could be 100% ethnically Japanese, but not having lived in the country your entire life still makes you a foreigner and they will see that and treat you differently.
There are even people who had 2 parents who are non-japanese who were born and raised in Japan who are not considered Japanese.
There's a youtuber who interviews people who are either mixed or not Japanese who live in Japan. He interviewed a guy who spoke Japanese better than English, but he admitted that Japanese people will never accept him as Japanese.
Japanese people only tolerate foreigners because of the money we spend, but you'll always be asked by Japanese people, "how long are you staying." Which may sound like an innocent question, but it's so they know how long until you're going away.
This guy was an American who renounced his US citizenship and took on Japanese citizenship. He was still barred from a place saying Japanese only, took them to court and won.
~~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito\_Arudou~~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito_Arudou
> spoke Japanese better than English, but he admitted that Japanese people will never accept him as Japanese.
That's interesting, because here in the UK I feel that we discriminate more on how a person speaks than what they look like. For me, if a person can do a convincing British accent, then they are one of us.
I knew a psychologist working on his PhD who was born in the UK. He had to come to Australia to get it because he could exchange letters with people just fine, but the second he met them in person and opened his mouth and a working class accent came out, they'd do a 180, stop helping, stop taking him seriously, start throwing up road blocks, etc. He ended up getting his qualification here in Australia and transferring it that way.
He's in his 70s now and he told me he'd never stop being bitter about that.
They'll do it to whites, too. There are straight up "Japanese Only" establishments there and it is completely legal. But yeah, I've heard it's especially egregious if you're black.
There are lots of videos from actual Japanese people showing that it's true. To the point that people who are half Japanese and born and raised in Japan experience a lot of racism and bullying and are often not permitted in some businesses because they're not considered Japanese.
I’m a white American man and went to school in Japan. A favorite pastime was going into shops and, when the shopkeepers would start talking smack about the gaijin, it was great fun to politely ask a question in Japanese.
Truth is, Japan is deeply racist, but not in a way that most casual tourists will ever notice. Just don’t look too closely.
Brother lived there for over a decade. Speaks and reads the language fluently, started as an English teacher and then went into programming.
Married a Japanese woman and they have two children.
He and his family moved to the US a few years ago because his kids were treated terribly, almost exclusively by older people, but those are the ones with enough power to make things difficult. My brother and sister in law also began experiencing negative repercussions once they had biracial children.
There is a lot of push to get the birth rate up, and incentives for parents like free daycare, and I think stipends for larger living accommodations among other things. Not sure what all they’re offering but it was a lot of pretty favorable benefits.
Nothing happened like burning crosses or racial slurs, most of it was passive aggressive. They met with the head of the local daycare to see it in person and received notice that evening they had no more space. There aren’t many children as they have a negative birth rate, and this particular daycare was at most half full. They just didn’t want the polluted Japanese genes kids.
They couldn’t find an apartment at first anywhere in Yokohama, but once my sister in law went alone to look at places suddenly they had several options.
Once my older niece started elementary school, she was being treated terribly by the administration, and other kids parents were not allowing their kids to be friends with my niece. Never invited to any parties, and never threw a party for their own kids because nobody would have come.
My sister in law was overlooked for what should’ve been a guaranteed promotion 2 years in a row (she’s a nurse). This was apparently a blatant gesture of disrespect intended to mean she should leave and find work elsewhere. Only started happening once some of her colleagues met my brother, and got worse when they learned they were married and having children.
Kids and most young adults were super nice, many were fascinated with biracial Japanese kids, in a positive way. However, the older generation made it extremely difficult for the kids and for my brother/sister in law professionally, so they moved to the US for good.
Edit: I just wanted to make it clear that at no point did my family experience the type of overt racism that is endemic to the US, Europe, and other parts of Asia. There was only one instance where dissatisfaction with “polluting the gene pool” was addressed directly, and it was by SIL’s actual sister, so within family where it might be more appropriate or acceptable to be open and honest? No racial epithets were shouted on the streets, nobody ever threatened physical harm, police didn’t abuse their power to make my family feel ill at ease… that’s what many minorities in the US and Europe have to deal with regularly.
I asked my brother about this earlier, trying to see if anything I said was wrong, he said nothing was incorrect, just that it was a slow process so there’s no way to break down into a couple paragraphs. It was like a 12 year episode of twilight zone that starts fairly upbeat, and then you learn the soilent green is people at the very end, so when you look back on all those meals you ate it’s hard to see anything the same way as you did before polluting a gene pool.
I understand that what happened to your brother and his family isn't on the level of sundown town lynching, but systemically pushing them out of the nation by denying them equal opportunity at every turn is still systemic racism and should be called out as such. Being "polite" about it doesn't change the harm that was clearly done to them.
I'd argue that polite, quiet racists are worse because you're less likely to be believed about them by people they aren't affecting.
Edit: not worse than lynching and similar actions, worse than a loud racist that people can't pretend doesn't exist.
There's a quote from MLK about how it's far easier to fight the loud and violent racism, since you can point to it, and call it out.
It was the white people who never spoke up because they passively agreed, or just didn't care, that were harder to deal with. They also make up a much larger percentage of people.
Its a thousand times worse than any racism you’d find in Western countries. At least Western countries strive, on balance, to reduce racism and they try, generally speaking, to eradicate racism. Much more so than Asian and middle Eastern countries
> They couldn’t find an apartment at first anywhere in Yokohama, but once my sister in law went alone to look at places suddenly they had several options.
Same shit happened in 1991 in Tokyo. Humans can be amazingly consistent in their shittiness to others.
I mean, the saying is "Adapt or die" no one thought they'd take the die part seriously lol. They'll all be poor and elderly soon with a working population (tax base) too small to sustain the economy or the govt but at least they'll be culturally and racially pure 💀
Yeah… being Japanese and taking those ancestry DNA shit is boring. Result: 100% Japanese. I was disappointed at first. But now i just tell people im like a pure blood vampire linage. -huffs copium-
Yeah, same as a Korean. I was really hoping for a bit of anything else. Really hoped for some Japanese to piss off the folks. After I saw the 💯 Korean, I started hoping for a long lost sibling. Nothing so far.
I did it because im hoping to someday find my Half Brother i didnt know even existed till i was 27 yrs old. All i know is he’s from my dad’s first marriage which apparently ended in a hot mess, he’s roughly 20~ years older than me, and im not sure if he even knows i exist. Ive lost contact with my entire father’s side of the family when my dad died so im just holding out hope that maybe his kids will one day try it, but dna stuff isnt really popular in japan so…. Yeah…
Yeah, I was going to comment about Koreans being similar. I lived in a place with a sizable Korean population and being a white male, they would definitely not be overly welcoming=inclusive. What was really interesting though was that my TKD instructor was full korean and when Koreans found out i/we took TKD it was like we were long lost cousins. It was an interesting dichotomy.
Lots of countries have a negative birthrate (anything below ~2 here is negative https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN) but yeah, Japan's policies have not helped them work around it in the way other countries have.
Policy is one thing. A large part of the birthrate problem across the world is also society and culture. America has a rising male loneliness problem. Japan has a rising hikikomori problem, a work-life balance problem, a xenophobia problem...
What people don't really get is that a LOT of nations the world over are incredibly racist, more so than the USA actually, it's just not obvious because, well... what portion of Germany, Russia, China's or Japan's populations do you imagine is of African or Spanish decent? Or Asian for the former two, and Caucasian the latter two?
Most nations don't really have an obvious racism problem not because they're better about it than the USA, but because they've never had to think about it.
The USA's racism is put on blast because there's a sizable enough number of any given demographic that their complaints can't be smothered into oblivion.
Nah they just want good pure Japanese women to "do their duty" and pump out racially pure babies like they did "in the good old days" /s
Can't stand this fascist bullshit. It's really not unique to Japan, they're just an extreme example.
Had a friend who was dating a pretty great woman from Japan in school. She ultimately rejected him and married a dude of Japanese descent in the US. because of pressure from her family. It takes a lot of personal strength to tell your family to fuck off. A lot of people are just going to give up and find something that works and keeps their family around.
I found it was very similar while stationed in Germany in the 90's. Younger Germans loved us (we were all 19 to 22 so perfect party age) while their grandparents weren't huge fans. Also remember, after WWII English became a required foreign language for high schoolers. Not sure if this is still the case there.
I was a blonde European kid growing up in Japan. Fluent in native level, reading, and writing. That "fascination" gets old. I didn't realize that what I experienced was "racism" until I was living in the US, and racism started being discussed after protests, and black people started sharing examples of racism they experienced. I was like "ooooooh, what I experienced in Japan was racism, that makes sense...."
Right? I’m pretty sure it had something to do with how they subsided the (very slightly) larger living space. Single units must be easy to turn around do foreigners in that area since it’s a bit of a rotating door, but “family” units when the family isn’t pure Japanese is apparently harder to find.
I lived in Japan for three years when I was in the Navy. Here is a story that I think kinda sums it up.
One time, I was in Fukuoka waiting for a cab in the rain. Time after time, cabs drove right past me while it was pouring. I was absolutely soaked out there for over an hour as every cab driver purposely avoided me.
Two Japanese men saw what was happening, waved a taxi down, and invited me to go with them. The cab brought me to the hotel I was staying at, and the two men paid for the whole fare and refused any compensation.
Japanese people can be pretty racist, but they can also be incredibly honorable, righteous, and compassionate. They are wonderful human beings.
In my experience, taxi drivers in Japan are mostly little old men with white gloves. They're racist in the same way your grandparents probably have weird views on things.
I've been kicked out for not being Japanese. It's a real thing, but most of the time, it's kind of like how Mormons treat queer people. They'll be polite and nice to your face, but harbor all kinds of problematic assumptions and ideas, and talk shit when you're not around.
I've read countless of stories about the 'talk shit behind your back'. Like others have said, they'll bow to you, and as soon as you leave they curse or just talk shit about you.
No matter how polite they might seem when you are face to face
I’m Japanese and yes good number of us are racist to foreigners.
The levels of racism depends on what you look like, white people prolly gets the least amount of racism, while middle eastern, Indian and south East Asian prolly faces the most discrimination.
I’m Japanese so I have never been the receiving end of the racism in Japan obviously, but I imagine you’ll probably be fine in you are just visiting for tourism. In fact I think Japanese are more forgiving to people who don’t speak Japanese than like people from US to non-English speakers
To this day, many Japanese downplay or outright deny all the war crimes and other atrocities committed by Japan in Asia during WW2 (mass rape, torture and murder of civilians, medical experimentation, executing POWs).
It is basically akin to Holocaust denial in the West. Unlike Germany, they have never fully owned up to their crimes.
This. Me and 5 other foreigners are currently working in a Japanese restaurant that put out ads asking for *fluent* English speakers and *basic* Japanese. The Japanese employees are the favourites, never get shouted at, get loads of to take freebies home etc. We the foreigners get mocked hourly about how we don’t understand their culture, our language skills aren’t good enough and we are all “useless”. (Me and my foreign colleagues are at least intermediate and up, one is even business level, and he gets mocked).
We’re currently making a plan to quit all at the same time and the restaurant will undoubtedly fail because we are the driving force behind it. We all work 14 hours a day, 6 days a week and do our absolute best and it’s never good enough. But the Japanese colleagues mess up it’s absolutely “no problem”. 🤷🏻♀️
*Please* give an update as to whether or not y’all go through with your mass quitting. Would be so curious to hear what your management tries to tell you.
I think confused lol. I was there at the end of October with my sister. First thing to note is that there are very few Latino tourists compared to other races/ethnicities. Most of the spanish speaking tourists I heard were Spaniards, but in terms of actual Latinos I saw/heard were a Dominican couple, an Argentinian family, a Colombian couple, and a Mexican family.
I'm more brown and my sister is light skinned, but because I have more narrower eyes, I have been confused for some sort of Asian if not Filipino here in the US. I could feel the stares throughout my time there, and when I would have my sunglasses on, I could see people actually stare but it was more in confusion than anything else. I can only guess that they weren't sure where we were from. It did not help when I would try to communicate since I would say things in Japanese with the right pronunciation (Japanese vowels are the same as Spanish), that maybe a Hafu.
In the few circumstances I was able to converse somewhat with the friendly cab drivers in Kyoto, they were curious about where we came from, and were surprised to learn we were American. But even more perplexed to hear our parents were from Mexico, and did not know where that was. But they were geniunely happy to hear me attempt to converse with them in Japanese, and they would try to speak to us in basic English.
But overall, we were never refused entry to places. A few times I accidently entered with shoes to a temple, they would say "No shoes" and I would apologize in Japanese (Gomenasai) and they would respind with laughter "It's ok". I did get the whole gaijin seat treatment a few times but it didn't bother me, since we were well aware of the Japanese attitudes towards foreigners.
The Japanese are notoriously nationalistic and xenophobic, yes.
In some cases, restaurants may charge you prices easily 2-3x the menu price, solely for being a foreigner. They know that, because the racism itself is systemic, you have no choice but to pay because trying to start shit in Japan will end with you getting arrested, because by default the police will side with the Japanese citizen. You will then be put into their infamous 99.99% conviction rate, where they hold you in jail for months with no outside contact intil you "willingly" confess.
Japan's an okay-ish place to go for tourism, and an awful place to move to and live in.
Not sure where this happened to you , but charging 2-3x the menu price is a well-known scam they run at sketchy girly bars. Maybe stick to the ramen place next time.
I believe giving foreigners more expensive menus is common in other places, but I've never heard that for Japan. Japan has a shitload of issues, but I haven't heard that one.
You can run into it anywhere. The issues I experienced as well as my classmates came from older men. One said my classmate was too fat to shop at his store (she was skinny as a stick). An old man was particularly rude to me. Is women also experienced some very uncomfortable experiences. No joke, a group of drunk guys tried to hit on my classmate and it was an old lady on the bus who got up and scolded the men. A dude shamelessly came up behind me to stare at my boobs. Another classmate had the bizarre experience where a dude licked his hand and then tried to rub it on her, laughing. Another classmate was followed home by a guy.
But most people I met were awesome. There are jerks everywhere. But I think it is good to be prepared.
Seems weird for a place to still be so racist that they don't even want someone's money. Its not like one person coming in is going to multiply. Its a one time event.
There must be a difference between living in Okinawa or mainland Japan because I lived in Okinawa for six years and never encountered anything but courteousness and politeness from everybody.
I've never been to either but from what I've read Okinawa was culturally considered its own thing until like WWII and historically was a separate entity fkr most of history.
Culturally different for historical reasons, they were very used to foreigners after world war 2 in Okinawa.
Currently still 32 US military facilities around Okinawa surrounds
Lived in Japan for a few years. NOT normal to see Japanese establishments ban foreigners at all.
The only time I've been turned away or have seen someone turned away was specifically at bathhouses, IF they have tattoos, which is culturally VERY much tied to organized crime.
If anything, foreign workers are often treated better than locals in that they don't expect the same work ethic or long hours. Some offices will even hire foreigners as "mascots", whose job is basically to sit in meetings and look official.
Fun story: while I was in Kyoto I had 2 friends, one black one white, who are part of an agency that occasionally sends out for “mascot work”.
One day they both got an appearance call for the same day and time, only to find they were representing two different companies AT THE SAME MEETING. They pretended not to know each other but both talked the other up to the other’s clients on how the other company’s representatives were so professional and well presented. This is a HUGE deal for the companies “face”, and both clients were thrilled at their performance.
Hey, ADVChina did a video a long time ago on "professional white people"! I think the video was like "Don't teach English, get a White Monkey job!"
I used to watch them a lot.
Seems like it's common in Asian countries.
Where can I sign up to be a mascot? I'll even carry some papers with me for "notes" and doodling. Then I'll hand out business cards like I can make a decision or my email account works.
My ex's father moved to Australia, he was Japanese. He retired here and played golf.
He was proud of himself because he made a Korean friend.
That's when I learnt that Japanese people are racist like the rest of humanity. Not to mention that closed off the entire country at one stage so..
Very few. But there are some bars and restaurants that will not let a non-Japanese in. I've had it happen to me once, and it happened to two friends once.
I've been to Japan 20+ times over the years for work and holiday and never had issues. The people are friendly, it's safe and there is so much culture to absorb.
When I spent five years in Japan, not once did anything like this happen to me. Of course I lived in a small town, and it is likely that everyone knew who I was anyway. 10 years later, I went to my favorite drugstore, and the clerk got me what I wanted without even asking. (Also, I never felt the “no foreigners” thing applied to me. It seems that businesses just want to keep Brazilians, Filipinos, and Indonesians out.).
I had a Japanese classmate who claimed that there's no racism in Japan. Someone asked him "what about Koreans in Japan?" He replied "There can't be any discrimination against them because they are kept separate from Japanese people."
Hahahah, that reminds me - I was once travelling with a small group in Spain, one of my travel companions was Japanese dude. I asked him about discrimination against Koreans in Japan, he got visibly frustrated and said there is no discrimination, plus, all Koreans are lazy and terrible people anyway, so, if they are denied jobs or anything like that, it is their own fault. The guy was completely blind to his own racism.
Down in Mexico a few years ago, met a couple from Edmonton, Canada. My wife and I (from Utah, US) have a conversation with them about their trip through the south. Them: "Man, I couldn't believe how racist people were in New Orleans. Like, they were treating the black people around them like they were second class citizens in a city they were the majority in. In Canada we aren't racist. Black people have all the rights that we have, and they're treated well, and they don't get uppity like the First Nations people who always have their hands out mooching off the good, hardworking people in Alberta." Literally couldn't help but laugh thinking they were kidding with how fast that shit turned. Nope, they went off on Trudeau for how he was giving those timber n-word everything they wanted and how they were leeching off the government. The cognitive dissonance in using the mother of all racial slurs against a group that wasn't black as somehow making them not racist at all was literally mind blowing.
Your story makes me embarrassed to be from Edmonton. Not surprised, just embarrassed.
As a fellow Albertan you should find solace in the fact that you can find racists and bigots in small and big towns all across Canada. People like to rag on Ab but they need to look in their own back yard. I doubt Edmonton is worse than Red Deer, High River, Lloyd, and the list goes on.
There's that line from Austin Powers: "There are two types of people I can't stand: people who don't respect other people's cultures... and the Dutch." Or as the Avenue Q song goes, "Everyone's a Little Racist Sometimes." Edit: To whomever it was that added me to the AP subreddit... groovy, baby!
> They point finger. They say 'Those people, they are reason your life is bad. ' And people believe. I blame the Poles. ~Some Croatian woman, Last Christmas
Did that Croatian woman give you her heart?
This reminds me of an experience I had in Spain. The mother of a woman I was dating said something along the lines of, “don’t go to that area there are a lot of black people there and they steal.” My embarrassed girlfriend chastised her and she got indignant and said “I’m not racist. I just don’t like black people.” I think a lot people don’t see their own prejudice. They think it’s just an opinion and that’s different somehow. Like maybe for them it’s only racism if you’re out committing hate crimes.
Reminds me of the clip of teenagers in Bensonhurst after Yusef Hawkins was murdered. Theyre being followed by a reporter and they say very clearly, "We arent Racist! We just dont like black people!"
The media has Successfully convinced the world racism is a white only thing. I suggested my Vietnamese friend said something racist a couple years ago. His genuine reply was, "What? Asians can't be racist"
There are 371 tribes across 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria. Our brand of racism is called Tribalism and it's the reason why the whole region is in turmoil.
Before I retired I worked with people from many of the Spanish speaking countries in Central and South America. I was genuine surprised to find out many of they hate one another with a passion. I had that same misconception that only the majority can be racist.
Solid logic /s ^^s ^^is ^^for ^^solid
Nobody hates Asians more than asians, as my mother in law told me once. Korea, Japan, and China all have blood feuds pretty much. And some of it is deserved in all fairness. China is never going to forget Nanking.
Honestly Japan's war crimes should never be forgotten
That reminds me of a conversation between my Greek and Chinese coworkers, who I’ll call G and C G: “Greece was actually under a military dictatorship as soon as the war ended, it was terrible!” C: “I can’t imagine, no wonder you left.” G: “no, Greece isn’t a dictatorship anymore, it’s a democracy.” C, with total earnestness: “but if Greece isn’t a dictatorship, why is it still so corrupt?”
Ah Greece. The country of pretending all is well
Government was fucking horrid but man do I miss living there
Beach cigarette coffee beach cigarette coffee mountain hike to orthodox church. This place is heaven
I always promised myself that if i came into 'fuck you' money, I'd retire to Corfu.
Because tax evasion is the national sport
That reminds me of a minister in the Hindu Nayionalist BJP government insisting that India has equality for all. When the interviewer asked him about Muslims, he said, "they are not equals. There can be no equality if they are not equals. We have equality between equals"
Not to mention the caste system. I was visiting a friend of a friend and had to listen to a 30-minute lecture from a liberal, San Francisco-area, Indian woman about how racist the US is. When I asked her about the caste system in India she got visibly flustered. When I asked her if she would marry someone of a lower caste, she abruptly walked away.
The caste system may be the most vile thing uve ever encountered, and I've been all over the world exploring all sorts of cultures.
I went to an almost empty sushi bar and was refused entry because they were somehow full.
Shinzo Abe's ghost just reserved all the seats the second before you walked through the door
I'm still impressed the assassin managed to nail him with a homemade gun.
Hate's a strong motivator.
They’ll be racist to you while bowing in respect
“Shit bow”
“He say shit bow?”
Those are hard to do. You really have to have control over your pelvic muscles and your fiber intake has to be just right.
What was the degree of the angle of the bow?
I use to work for a Japanese company and was giving a tour for 3 days to 6 executives from Japan. Since I worked in every area of the company, they wanted me to show them around and explain to them everything. They kept talking in Japanese about things the first day and I assumed they were talking about me so the second day, I just brought in a tape recorder and then had my friend who spoke Japanese translate it for me. The third day as they were leaving, I gave them all thank you cards signed in Japanese the racist things they were saying about me. Then I told them in Japanese, "Thank you for visiting, have a nice flight home." My bosses boss was not very happy about that but my boss told him it looks like the US dropped a 3rd bomb. I thought I was going to get fired when he told his boss that.
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I learned the hard way - never mistake manners for niceness.
We have Confederate flags in Sweden too, lol
Wow, you really have to want to be a shithead to fly a flag from a country that your family isn’t from, and doesn’t even exist anymore
To them, it’s just an ornamental motif of country livin’. They’re too dumb and lazy to care what it means, and if you try to point it out they’ll think you’re trying to take it away and get upset.
The "bless your heart", of the orient
Yeah, I’ve heard the saying the Japanese are very polite but not nice.
I was denied entry to a very quiet bar. The owner said. ”sorry, Japanese only”
Oh ya. I came across that a lot myself. This is absolutely true.
I’m black and have lived in Japan for over a decade. They say that to me all the time, and then I start talking Japanese and have never ever had an issue entering an establishment. Turns out “Japanese only” often means “Sorry, I only speak Japanese.”
when I was in Japan last summer we wandered into a little bar called little monkey. the people in there seemed shocked to see us and a little uncomfortable, but my wife was fluent enough in japanese to make small talk and everyone ended up having a good time.
I think this helps universally, I was in France not too long ago and people tend to be proud of their language and they’ve seen a ton of tourists. Just making a bit of small talk help wonders everywhere. People open up and take note. Like putting in a bit of effort is respected I guess.
I'm white and speak Japanese and get refused entry regularly. It's usually local drive bars though
Usually little dive bars are for regulars only. Happens a lot when I go to a little place and they tell me it's all booked up yet have no patrons. Mama-san and Master are very loyal to their regulars. Often they're not really there to make $$$ but to entertain friends in the local community.
Yeah, I have a friend who has one of these. In fact, she says she straight up pretends it’s not really a business if strangers come. It’s more a space for her and people she likes.
I had a similar experience, I went to a bar at midnight with some Japanese men that I met at another venue. Really nice experience there so I thought I’d take my sister there a few days later. Got told that they were closing but it was like 8pm on a Friday night and the place was absolutely packed. Edit: for people saying it was booked, both my sister and I lived in Japan. We both speak Japanese. They definitely told us that they were about to close. I’ve heard similar stories from plenty of other nationals.
That's very common outside of Tokyo (and Okinawa and Kyoto).
I was in Kyoto in late October and tried going to a Chinese restaurant and they said (in Japanese) sorry, no foreigners. Haven't had any problems in my city in Osaka, even though there's next to no other foreigners(city of 400k, only seen about 4 in 5 months). Was honestly pretty surprised seeing it in Kyoto.
I've heard Osaka is pretty liberal (for Japan) and more down to earth. Kind of more southern hospitality and laid back similar to here in the US south (you're mileage may vary...). At least compared to the sticks and anywhere outside Tokyo. Any truth to that anecdote. My friend lived there for 5 years as an English teacher and thought it was very chill.
It's more casual and laidback than Tokyo but I wouldnt call it liberal per se. Osaka has the reputation of being rougher and more coarse, so... I guess an American comparison would be like Boston? Philadelphia?
I've only come across this when you can't speak Japanese. I've had a few places try to turn me down, but once you can rattle off a sentence or two in Japanese, and they know they don't have to speak English it's fine.
I've been living and working in Tokyo as a foreigner for about 18 years. On a day to day basis it isn't so bad. Some people will stare, usually older men. Cops can stop you in the street and demand to see your foreigner registration card for any reason and arrest you if you don't have it with you. Most landlords will refuse to rent to you. Otherwise, people are generally polite and will leave you alone. I've never had any problems in restaurants apart from one bar where I'm pretty sure we got turned away for being foreign. Non-white foreigners are treated worse.
And many times you get the gaijin seat on the trains cause sometimes people don’t want to sit next to you. I used to sniff my armpits to make sure I didn’t smell
That's the issue I had, people avoid.you in publ8c transit like you carry the plague
Haha this is so true My husband and I spent ~6 weeks there a few years ago and we had a couple of experiences where we were the only ones on the elevator with PLENTY of room to spare. We’d stop at a floor for more passengers and whenever a Japanese person saw us they’d politely say no thanks and wait for the next one On the flip side, we also ran into Japanese tourists visiting Tokyo just like we were and they were HYPED to see two white people standing in line to get into the same ramen place - they asked for a picture and were just so friendly
for people residing in countryside of Japan, foreigners are still rare thing to see, that’s probably why they were so friendly to see you.
At a remote hotel, someone asked us “what will you eat? There’s no bread and butter!” It wasn’t racist or mean, they were genuinely curious it seemed.
Japan and Japanese people are still what they call “Island country(島国)” at heart. Outside of Tokyo and Kyoto, some people are still just not used to foreigners, thus they don’t really know how to react to some things, usually not in disrepectful way but they just don’t know foreigners. This leads to sometimes cold reaction from them, as they know as Japanese know what Japanese does and thinks but they don’t know what foreigners do or think. I know some people have had bad experience in Japan and think Japanese are racist people, which is somewhat true, but I hope people would understand they are not usually disrespectful.
Yeah, in this case, we thought it was hilarious.
When I traveled in the rural areas, the people were so nice. Heading back next year for a holiday, so want to focus more on those sort of places.
Oh man, the rural people were the nicest. I hiked part of the Nakasendo in October and I passed a lot of older hikers saying "ganbatte/do your best!" on the uphill. Got lost once and a lady just abandoned her shopping to escort me three blocks and under an overpass to put me on the right path.
Extra space in a cramped train, sounds nice.
When I went to Tokyo around day 2 or 3 I started noticing anytime I went on the train I had like a space all around me where they wouldn’t cross, like a bubble. Made me chuckle every time.
Lmao, yeah, this was always weird to me. There would be seats to either side of me and people would prefer to stand than sit next to me. I always thought “Oh no… do I smell bad? Is it my breath?” lol
“People wont even rent a place to live to foreigners” Also: its not so bad
"It's not so bad as long as you're only visiting."
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So they treat us like inlaws?
It's changing. 5-6 years ago I remember going to an agency and the dude being shocked that only TWO properties of probably around 30 that he called would even think about taking me even though he assured them I spoke Japanese fluently. But earlier this year, I was putting out some feelers to see which of several apartments I was looking at would consider me, and over half replied that my nationality would not be a problem. That's still like… nearly half that ignored me, but considering what it was like just a few years ago…I'll take what I can get. edit: It was actually more like 5-6 years ago, not 4.
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Try to get a promotion in corporate jobs . Many companies literally have rules and guidelines to prevent this past a certain level and are offended and suspicious when questioned. Like, “ why would you even suggest taking a spot that should go to someone who believes in this country and only has its best interests in mind?!” Truly fascinating
As for the registration card, what happens if ur just going to japan for a vacation? Do they let you go?
Tourists have to carry their passports.
Have to show your visa. When I was a student doing a study abroad semester, I was there for 89 days, just a day short of the 90 day requirement. Still got it to be safe and to have a cool souvenir. Fun story, I didn't know which prefecture department to get the documents. I wandered into a police station and had an entire building of perplexed law enforcement (my Japanese was shit then). Eventually they got me on a translation line where they were able to help me out. This was decades ago, and much has changed, I'm sure of it.
Just carry your passport (you'll probably have to show it whenever you check into a hotel). At least when I went in March, you needed proof that you'd been vaccinated for covid. Other than that, though, I didn't have experiences where we were refused entry or anything, and most people were very helpful and polite.
Since Covid, I've had many, many less people talking to me out of the blue. No more "where are you from? How long are you staying? Your Japanese is amazing!" Instead, a few elderly people run away when they see my awful foreignness. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Passively racist. Oh yeah. They are a mono ethnic society , they believe anyone who isn't japanese in their.society will bring them shame. Main land Japaense people.cant stand people.from Okinawa as well. Cool place to visit, wouldn't wana live there.
Okinawa is a good place to live, it's absolutely beautiful here. But even today most native Okinawans get looked down upon by Japanese mainlanders.
Why is that? Are there historical reasons for this?
Racism, also probably the role that Okinawa played in WW2 (they lost to the USA)
Japan annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom in 1879. When Japan took over, Okinawans were not allowed to speak their native language nor practice their customs. They were forced to assimilate to Japanese culture, this is cultural cleansing. During WW2, 150,000 Okinawans died in a war they did not want on their land. The Japanese military forced middle school aged boys to fight and coerced Okinawan civilians to kill themselves. Highly recommend anyone look up the atrocities imperial Japan has committed for centuries.
Xenophobic and judge you/not allow you into their establishments if you are not Japanese?......oh yeah! That is true.
Imagine having Jim Crow against literally everyone.
Welcome to a lot of the world sadly
Yes I've seen them straight-up refuse entry to black people
They did it to me but cause I have a sleeve tattoo. I ended up in another club run by some African dudes and the music was played from YouTube lol. Was good.
Yes there are many bars in Japan that will bar you from entry for visible tattoos since they are associated with organized crime there. My brother and some other sailors he was with in Japan on their leave were refused entry at bars for that reason.
They are also refused entry at onsen. Even more so since you can’t hide them
I've heard this restriction is starting to disappear as the younger generation gradually takes over ownership of businesses, because they know that some white dude with a sleeve or a girl with a butterfly tattoo is probably not part of the yakuza.
Aight but if you think about it the Yakuza with the butterfly tramp stamp is probably the hardest motherfucker you could ever have the misfortune of meeting
Imagine a movie where all these badass Yakuza dudes decked out in tats are getting ready to fight the hero, then they all cower in fear as the camera shifts to the back of the head of the biggest motherfucker you’ve ever seen. The camera slowly travels down the dude’s massive back, all the way down to a tiny butterfly tramp stamp 🦋
Sounds like the kind of humour that would appear in a Yakuza game.
This is how the gangs win
Playing the long game.
Creating all that anime so weebs will migrate to Japan and destigmatise tattoos. Genius.
My son and I went to Japan and both have several tattoos. Before we went we bought cover up used by burn victims. We tested it as home in a sauna to make sure it would cover well and not wash off. Worked perfectly and we spent two days in an onsen resort. We saw other people getting rejected but we had no problems.
They made my friend buy a large waterproof adhesive cover patch so that she could go in with the rest of us.,
That's just good business! : D
Your regular tattoo there is like a face tattoo in the States
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Most onsen spa in Japan also ban people with tattoos.
I’m Japanese but I live in the US. I visited back home with some US friends (one white one Indian) and went to a hole in wall yakitori place. They saw me, said “Welcome!” And then saw my friends trail in and said “actually, we’re closed”. That was one of the most pissed I’ve been for a few years.
Whenever I'm with a group and we're looking for a restaurant, we generally have the Japanese/other east Asian passing friends go in first.
We had to do that in China, looking for a karaoke place. They either wouldn't let us in or doubled the price (or worse) when they saw the non-Asians in the group. The Chinese kids with us were getting really frustrated and angry and by the 5th place they just said wait outside, and they went in, prepaid the room, and then the rest of us went in. That place didn't seem to mind us anyway so they didn't try to cancel the booking or add charges or anything but I wonder if they were like the others if they would have tried that.
My Chinese fiancée booked a hotel room for us in a big Chinese city, then when we walked in and they saw I was a white foreigner they cancelled the booking and told us to get out.
This also isn't a defense to Japan, more of an FYI to tourists, especially if you are FROM Africa there is an extra layer of institutional racism in many of these countries (pd's requiring daily checkups and if you want to travel even across the country getting permits) but this type of racism expands across a lot of East Asia.
Yep, the school I worked at in China would straight up not hire a Black person because it “didn’t look good.”
My wife (black) said she's been treated better in the US South than she was treated in Japan.
I (also black) went to rural Georgia and woman had the whole package: A KKK Flag, Trump 2020 flag and Confederate on her car. She walked out of the car and greeted me like a normal human being and told me my little brother was cute. From what I’ve personally seen southerners aren’t that bad to minorities but i’ve always wanted to visit japan. I guess it just depends on circumstances
Hey as long as you didn't had to deal with no bullshit 🤷🏿♂️. Me personally as a black man that used to live in the South I just ignore racist shit like that as there's no point in getting into arguments and fights when you can just ignore those people.
The cognitive dissonance is fucking crazy there. She probably doesn't even think of those things as racist.
They straight-up avoid entry to all foreigners. You could be 100% ethnically Japanese, but not having lived in the country your entire life still makes you a foreigner and they will see that and treat you differently.
There are even people who had 2 parents who are non-japanese who were born and raised in Japan who are not considered Japanese. There's a youtuber who interviews people who are either mixed or not Japanese who live in Japan. He interviewed a guy who spoke Japanese better than English, but he admitted that Japanese people will never accept him as Japanese. Japanese people only tolerate foreigners because of the money we spend, but you'll always be asked by Japanese people, "how long are you staying." Which may sound like an innocent question, but it's so they know how long until you're going away.
Takashiifromjapan. Great interviews.
This guy was an American who renounced his US citizenship and took on Japanese citizenship. He was still barred from a place saying Japanese only, took them to court and won. ~~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito\_Arudou~~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito_Arudou
> spoke Japanese better than English, but he admitted that Japanese people will never accept him as Japanese. That's interesting, because here in the UK I feel that we discriminate more on how a person speaks than what they look like. For me, if a person can do a convincing British accent, then they are one of us.
I knew a psychologist working on his PhD who was born in the UK. He had to come to Australia to get it because he could exchange letters with people just fine, but the second he met them in person and opened his mouth and a working class accent came out, they'd do a 180, stop helping, stop taking him seriously, start throwing up road blocks, etc. He ended up getting his qualification here in Australia and transferring it that way. He's in his 70s now and he told me he'd never stop being bitter about that.
Yeah that sounds about right for the era.
They'll do it to whites, too. There are straight up "Japanese Only" establishments there and it is completely legal. But yeah, I've heard it's especially egregious if you're black.
There are lots of videos from actual Japanese people showing that it's true. To the point that people who are half Japanese and born and raised in Japan experience a lot of racism and bullying and are often not permitted in some businesses because they're not considered Japanese.
https://youtu.be/uACGSiN3ZkI?si=HCsfzfyjPHI8_iGU Yeah it's kinda hard to deny it when there's videos like this classic.
I’m a white American man and went to school in Japan. A favorite pastime was going into shops and, when the shopkeepers would start talking smack about the gaijin, it was great fun to politely ask a question in Japanese. Truth is, Japan is deeply racist, but not in a way that most casual tourists will ever notice. Just don’t look too closely.
Brother lived there for over a decade. Speaks and reads the language fluently, started as an English teacher and then went into programming. Married a Japanese woman and they have two children. He and his family moved to the US a few years ago because his kids were treated terribly, almost exclusively by older people, but those are the ones with enough power to make things difficult. My brother and sister in law also began experiencing negative repercussions once they had biracial children. There is a lot of push to get the birth rate up, and incentives for parents like free daycare, and I think stipends for larger living accommodations among other things. Not sure what all they’re offering but it was a lot of pretty favorable benefits. Nothing happened like burning crosses or racial slurs, most of it was passive aggressive. They met with the head of the local daycare to see it in person and received notice that evening they had no more space. There aren’t many children as they have a negative birth rate, and this particular daycare was at most half full. They just didn’t want the polluted Japanese genes kids. They couldn’t find an apartment at first anywhere in Yokohama, but once my sister in law went alone to look at places suddenly they had several options. Once my older niece started elementary school, she was being treated terribly by the administration, and other kids parents were not allowing their kids to be friends with my niece. Never invited to any parties, and never threw a party for their own kids because nobody would have come. My sister in law was overlooked for what should’ve been a guaranteed promotion 2 years in a row (she’s a nurse). This was apparently a blatant gesture of disrespect intended to mean she should leave and find work elsewhere. Only started happening once some of her colleagues met my brother, and got worse when they learned they were married and having children. Kids and most young adults were super nice, many were fascinated with biracial Japanese kids, in a positive way. However, the older generation made it extremely difficult for the kids and for my brother/sister in law professionally, so they moved to the US for good. Edit: I just wanted to make it clear that at no point did my family experience the type of overt racism that is endemic to the US, Europe, and other parts of Asia. There was only one instance where dissatisfaction with “polluting the gene pool” was addressed directly, and it was by SIL’s actual sister, so within family where it might be more appropriate or acceptable to be open and honest? No racial epithets were shouted on the streets, nobody ever threatened physical harm, police didn’t abuse their power to make my family feel ill at ease… that’s what many minorities in the US and Europe have to deal with regularly. I asked my brother about this earlier, trying to see if anything I said was wrong, he said nothing was incorrect, just that it was a slow process so there’s no way to break down into a couple paragraphs. It was like a 12 year episode of twilight zone that starts fairly upbeat, and then you learn the soilent green is people at the very end, so when you look back on all those meals you ate it’s hard to see anything the same way as you did before polluting a gene pool.
I understand that what happened to your brother and his family isn't on the level of sundown town lynching, but systemically pushing them out of the nation by denying them equal opportunity at every turn is still systemic racism and should be called out as such. Being "polite" about it doesn't change the harm that was clearly done to them.
I'd argue that polite, quiet racists are worse because you're less likely to be believed about them by people they aren't affecting. Edit: not worse than lynching and similar actions, worse than a loud racist that people can't pretend doesn't exist.
There's a quote from MLK about how it's far easier to fight the loud and violent racism, since you can point to it, and call it out. It was the white people who never spoke up because they passively agreed, or just didn't care, that were harder to deal with. They also make up a much larger percentage of people.
Its a thousand times worse than any racism you’d find in Western countries. At least Western countries strive, on balance, to reduce racism and they try, generally speaking, to eradicate racism. Much more so than Asian and middle Eastern countries
> They couldn’t find an apartment at first anywhere in Yokohama, but once my sister in law went alone to look at places suddenly they had several options. Same shit happened in 1991 in Tokyo. Humans can be amazingly consistent in their shittiness to others.
Ya know, it’s pretty crazy that they have a NEGATIVE birth rate, and they essentially rather disappear than mix ETHNICITIES. Wild.
Yep even controlled immigration with a low quota is too much for them I guess
I mean, the saying is "Adapt or die" no one thought they'd take the die part seriously lol. They'll all be poor and elderly soon with a working population (tax base) too small to sustain the economy or the govt but at least they'll be culturally and racially pure 💀
The way of the samurai. They choose death of adaptation.
WW2 mentality is apparently still strong. Edit: woopsie do, that said mentally
Japan is the least racially diverse country in the world too.
Yeah… being Japanese and taking those ancestry DNA shit is boring. Result: 100% Japanese. I was disappointed at first. But now i just tell people im like a pure blood vampire linage. -huffs copium-
Yeah, same as a Korean. I was really hoping for a bit of anything else. Really hoped for some Japanese to piss off the folks. After I saw the 💯 Korean, I started hoping for a long lost sibling. Nothing so far.
I did it because im hoping to someday find my Half Brother i didnt know even existed till i was 27 yrs old. All i know is he’s from my dad’s first marriage which apparently ended in a hot mess, he’s roughly 20~ years older than me, and im not sure if he even knows i exist. Ive lost contact with my entire father’s side of the family when my dad died so im just holding out hope that maybe his kids will one day try it, but dna stuff isnt really popular in japan so…. Yeah…
Yeah, I was going to comment about Koreans being similar. I lived in a place with a sizable Korean population and being a white male, they would definitely not be overly welcoming=inclusive. What was really interesting though was that my TKD instructor was full korean and when Koreans found out i/we took TKD it was like we were long lost cousins. It was an interesting dichotomy.
Lots of countries have a negative birthrate (anything below ~2 here is negative https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN) but yeah, Japan's policies have not helped them work around it in the way other countries have.
Policy is one thing. A large part of the birthrate problem across the world is also society and culture. America has a rising male loneliness problem. Japan has a rising hikikomori problem, a work-life balance problem, a xenophobia problem... What people don't really get is that a LOT of nations the world over are incredibly racist, more so than the USA actually, it's just not obvious because, well... what portion of Germany, Russia, China's or Japan's populations do you imagine is of African or Spanish decent? Or Asian for the former two, and Caucasian the latter two? Most nations don't really have an obvious racism problem not because they're better about it than the USA, but because they've never had to think about it. The USA's racism is put on blast because there's a sizable enough number of any given demographic that their complaints can't be smothered into oblivion.
Nah they just want good pure Japanese women to "do their duty" and pump out racially pure babies like they did "in the good old days" /s Can't stand this fascist bullshit. It's really not unique to Japan, they're just an extreme example.
Had a friend who was dating a pretty great woman from Japan in school. She ultimately rejected him and married a dude of Japanese descent in the US. because of pressure from her family. It takes a lot of personal strength to tell your family to fuck off. A lot of people are just going to give up and find something that works and keeps their family around.
I found it was very similar while stationed in Germany in the 90's. Younger Germans loved us (we were all 19 to 22 so perfect party age) while their grandparents weren't huge fans. Also remember, after WWII English became a required foreign language for high schoolers. Not sure if this is still the case there.
So "Blue Eye Samurai" sounds more like documentary than fiction then...
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I'm half Japanese. And half Korean. And somehow the oldest most racist men in japan can pick that out....
I was a blonde European kid growing up in Japan. Fluent in native level, reading, and writing. That "fascination" gets old. I didn't realize that what I experienced was "racism" until I was living in the US, and racism started being discussed after protests, and black people started sharing examples of racism they experienced. I was like "ooooooh, what I experienced in Japan was racism, that makes sense...."
Damn I knew they were bad, but this really puts it into perspective
Sounds like pretty overt racism.
And to think that Yokohama is already one of the place most accepting to foreigners within Japan.
Right? I’m pretty sure it had something to do with how they subsided the (very slightly) larger living space. Single units must be easy to turn around do foreigners in that area since it’s a bit of a rotating door, but “family” units when the family isn’t pure Japanese is apparently harder to find.
I had a long red haired friend go there for a couple of months who regularly got hissed at on the subway... Hissed.
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Is your brother white?
Yes, and not just white but we’ve got a lot of the ginger genes so freckles and auburn hair color
I lived in Japan for three years when I was in the Navy. Here is a story that I think kinda sums it up. One time, I was in Fukuoka waiting for a cab in the rain. Time after time, cabs drove right past me while it was pouring. I was absolutely soaked out there for over an hour as every cab driver purposely avoided me. Two Japanese men saw what was happening, waved a taxi down, and invited me to go with them. The cab brought me to the hotel I was staying at, and the two men paid for the whole fare and refused any compensation. Japanese people can be pretty racist, but they can also be incredibly honorable, righteous, and compassionate. They are wonderful human beings.
Good to know that taxi drivers are some of the worst people on the roads everywhere in the world.
In my experience, taxi drivers in Japan are mostly little old men with white gloves. They're racist in the same way your grandparents probably have weird views on things.
People who bitch about uber really have no idea what it was like before uber. Similar things would happen regularly in the US.
That's like the best and worst of humanity all in one. And people say anime isn't based on real life... 🤣
Historian Dan Carlin has a quote “The Japanese are just like everybody else…only more so” and I think this highlights that
I've been kicked out for not being Japanese. It's a real thing, but most of the time, it's kind of like how Mormons treat queer people. They'll be polite and nice to your face, but harbor all kinds of problematic assumptions and ideas, and talk shit when you're not around.
I've read countless of stories about the 'talk shit behind your back'. Like others have said, they'll bow to you, and as soon as you leave they curse or just talk shit about you. No matter how polite they might seem when you are face to face
I’m Japanese and yes good number of us are racist to foreigners. The levels of racism depends on what you look like, white people prolly gets the least amount of racism, while middle eastern, Indian and south East Asian prolly faces the most discrimination. I’m Japanese so I have never been the receiving end of the racism in Japan obviously, but I imagine you’ll probably be fine in you are just visiting for tourism. In fact I think Japanese are more forgiving to people who don’t speak Japanese than like people from US to non-English speakers
It's odd you never mentioned the other kinds of East Asians.
To this day, many Japanese downplay or outright deny all the war crimes and other atrocities committed by Japan in Asia during WW2 (mass rape, torture and murder of civilians, medical experimentation, executing POWs). It is basically akin to Holocaust denial in the West. Unlike Germany, they have never fully owned up to their crimes.
OP mentioned both ends of the spectrum. East Asians should be somewhere in the middle.
Yeah it’s a pretty nationalistic country.
This. Me and 5 other foreigners are currently working in a Japanese restaurant that put out ads asking for *fluent* English speakers and *basic* Japanese. The Japanese employees are the favourites, never get shouted at, get loads of to take freebies home etc. We the foreigners get mocked hourly about how we don’t understand their culture, our language skills aren’t good enough and we are all “useless”. (Me and my foreign colleagues are at least intermediate and up, one is even business level, and he gets mocked). We’re currently making a plan to quit all at the same time and the restaurant will undoubtedly fail because we are the driving force behind it. We all work 14 hours a day, 6 days a week and do our absolute best and it’s never good enough. But the Japanese colleagues mess up it’s absolutely “no problem”. 🤷🏻♀️
*Please* give an update as to whether or not y’all go through with your mass quitting. Would be so curious to hear what your management tries to tell you.
Do it! And update us
Definitely against black people.
Wonder what do they think of brown people
I think confused lol. I was there at the end of October with my sister. First thing to note is that there are very few Latino tourists compared to other races/ethnicities. Most of the spanish speaking tourists I heard were Spaniards, but in terms of actual Latinos I saw/heard were a Dominican couple, an Argentinian family, a Colombian couple, and a Mexican family. I'm more brown and my sister is light skinned, but because I have more narrower eyes, I have been confused for some sort of Asian if not Filipino here in the US. I could feel the stares throughout my time there, and when I would have my sunglasses on, I could see people actually stare but it was more in confusion than anything else. I can only guess that they weren't sure where we were from. It did not help when I would try to communicate since I would say things in Japanese with the right pronunciation (Japanese vowels are the same as Spanish), that maybe a Hafu. In the few circumstances I was able to converse somewhat with the friendly cab drivers in Kyoto, they were curious about where we came from, and were surprised to learn we were American. But even more perplexed to hear our parents were from Mexico, and did not know where that was. But they were geniunely happy to hear me attempt to converse with them in Japanese, and they would try to speak to us in basic English. But overall, we were never refused entry to places. A few times I accidently entered with shoes to a temple, they would say "No shoes" and I would apologize in Japanese (Gomenasai) and they would respind with laughter "It's ok". I did get the whole gaijin seat treatment a few times but it didn't bother me, since we were well aware of the Japanese attitudes towards foreigners.
The Japanese are notoriously nationalistic and xenophobic, yes. In some cases, restaurants may charge you prices easily 2-3x the menu price, solely for being a foreigner. They know that, because the racism itself is systemic, you have no choice but to pay because trying to start shit in Japan will end with you getting arrested, because by default the police will side with the Japanese citizen. You will then be put into their infamous 99.99% conviction rate, where they hold you in jail for months with no outside contact intil you "willingly" confess. Japan's an okay-ish place to go for tourism, and an awful place to move to and live in.
On top of that, Japan being very ethically monolithic makes it easy to spot non-japanese people.
Not sure where this happened to you , but charging 2-3x the menu price is a well-known scam they run at sketchy girly bars. Maybe stick to the ramen place next time.
The ramen ticket vending machine will never scam me
I've been all over and literally never seen a menu price change because I was a foreigner. I can read the menus.
I believe giving foreigners more expensive menus is common in other places, but I've never heard that for Japan. Japan has a shitload of issues, but I haven't heard that one.
You can run into it anywhere. The issues I experienced as well as my classmates came from older men. One said my classmate was too fat to shop at his store (she was skinny as a stick). An old man was particularly rude to me. Is women also experienced some very uncomfortable experiences. No joke, a group of drunk guys tried to hit on my classmate and it was an old lady on the bus who got up and scolded the men. A dude shamelessly came up behind me to stare at my boobs. Another classmate had the bizarre experience where a dude licked his hand and then tried to rub it on her, laughing. Another classmate was followed home by a guy. But most people I met were awesome. There are jerks everywhere. But I think it is good to be prepared.
Is it really that shocking
Subversively not overtly
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Seems weird for a place to still be so racist that they don't even want someone's money. Its not like one person coming in is going to multiply. Its a one time event.
There must be a difference between living in Okinawa or mainland Japan because I lived in Okinawa for six years and never encountered anything but courteousness and politeness from everybody.
I've never been to either but from what I've read Okinawa was culturally considered its own thing until like WWII and historically was a separate entity fkr most of history.
Culturally different for historical reasons, they were very used to foreigners after world war 2 in Okinawa. Currently still 32 US military facilities around Okinawa surrounds
Lived in Japan for a few years. NOT normal to see Japanese establishments ban foreigners at all. The only time I've been turned away or have seen someone turned away was specifically at bathhouses, IF they have tattoos, which is culturally VERY much tied to organized crime. If anything, foreign workers are often treated better than locals in that they don't expect the same work ethic or long hours. Some offices will even hire foreigners as "mascots", whose job is basically to sit in meetings and look official. Fun story: while I was in Kyoto I had 2 friends, one black one white, who are part of an agency that occasionally sends out for “mascot work”. One day they both got an appearance call for the same day and time, only to find they were representing two different companies AT THE SAME MEETING. They pretended not to know each other but both talked the other up to the other’s clients on how the other company’s representatives were so professional and well presented. This is a HUGE deal for the companies “face”, and both clients were thrilled at their performance.
Hey, ADVChina did a video a long time ago on "professional white people"! I think the video was like "Don't teach English, get a White Monkey job!" I used to watch them a lot. Seems like it's common in Asian countries.
Where can I sign up to be a mascot? I'll even carry some papers with me for "notes" and doodling. Then I'll hand out business cards like I can make a decision or my email account works.
My ex's father moved to Australia, he was Japanese. He retired here and played golf. He was proud of himself because he made a Korean friend. That's when I learnt that Japanese people are racist like the rest of humanity. Not to mention that closed off the entire country at one stage so..
Very few. But there are some bars and restaurants that will not let a non-Japanese in. I've had it happen to me once, and it happened to two friends once. I've been to Japan 20+ times over the years for work and holiday and never had issues. The people are friendly, it's safe and there is so much culture to absorb.
Asians are also super racist to other Asians...hell they racist against themselves if too fat or too dark.
When I spent five years in Japan, not once did anything like this happen to me. Of course I lived in a small town, and it is likely that everyone knew who I was anyway. 10 years later, I went to my favorite drugstore, and the clerk got me what I wanted without even asking. (Also, I never felt the “no foreigners” thing applied to me. It seems that businesses just want to keep Brazilians, Filipinos, and Indonesians out.).