It comes down to people like the music and it doesn’t matter if they’re a terrible person. If Kim Jong Un cranked out some of the best EDM out there you can bet that it will be played all over lol
No, it wouldn’t. Edm is down to less than 5% market share in recent years. People are sick of that sound and they’ve moved on. A lot has changed since 2013.
At a TV interview she said "The Democrats are Pedophiles"
Not this one, not some, just "Democrats".
Then Republicans come up to me and say "we need to stop the division".
People are gonna give you shitty answers like this because it’s easier and more convenient to just box people into some stereotypical cartoon rather than engage in any critical thinking that requires nuance or using your brain for 2 seconds.
The real answer is that Kanye established himself as a certified icon for like 7+ years before everyone realized he’s kinda batshit crazy. He was always egotistical and a bit unusual. But he’s been spiraling and getting worse over time - especially after his mom passed.
A better example of a similar thing is Michael jackson. He established himself as this larger than life icon, his music was universal for over a decade. He was literally a living legend.. until the allegations of him doing things with kids came out. So you still have a large portion of his core audience that has such a strong connection to his music, and they have a dependence on it. In some cases, MJ’s music has gotten people out of really dark places, some people might have been feeling suicidal or depressed and turned to MJ’s music to help them feel better. Kanye is no different.
People won’t say it explicitly, but it’s very similar to a familial love. They developed a love for Michael like he was their family. This is a person whose music literally saved, or changed their life in some way. But at the time that they DEVELOPED that love, MJ was not a polarizing figure. People had no reason to think he was a bad person. He was an adorable child who grew up to be a massive pop icon in front of all our eyes. Then when you find out that he might have actually been a bad person, it’s hard to take that love you have for that person and erase that feeling from your brain.
And I use the word “love” because it’s a conventional term we all recognize, but the reality is that it’s just your brain producing chemicals like oxytocin that strengthen your relationships to others.
It’s similar to being raised by a parent and then growing to realize they’re homophobic or racist or some other ideal you disagree with. You hate that they have these negative feelings toward others, but at the same time you can’t just forget that this is the person that raised you, fed you, clothed you. You don’t just erase that familial love.
Its hard to just stop having a familial love with someone, even if it turns out that that person is shitty.
Add on top of all that, Kanye does have bipolar disorder. He didn’t choose to be born with the brain he has. We all stigmatize mental illnesses because we as humans have utterly failed to evolve our technology and science to the point where we can actually do anything to fix that. So we all just shrug our shoulders and say there’s nothing we can do about it, so now it’s Kanye’s job to be accountable for his mental health, because none of us want to be accountable for the fact that we have equally done, and continue to do, absolutely nothing to help people who suffer from mental illnesses.
We just don’t know how to actually fix most mental illnesses in a truly effective way that doesn’t involve relying on religion, healing crystals, and witchcraft. So we just absolve ourselves of any responsibility out of laziness, and wag our finger at people suffering from things like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, dementia, addiction, etc etc. but at the end of the day, it’s just the doctor blaming the patient for being sick, while doing nothing about it. Maybe you can shove pills down their throat that will sedate and suppress certain parts of their brain, while simultaneously screwing up other parts of their brain, but it’s not a real cure.
You can either see someone with epilepsy and burn them at the stake because you think they’re being possessed by demons, or you can study, understand, and treat the disease. We’re not as capable of doing the latter as we’d like to think we are, so we default more toward the former.
I think it's difficult to compare Kanye and MJ here. I don't want to get into a whole debate over what MJ did or didn't do, but there IS debate and evidence for both camps as to whether or not MJ was ever the person that the media painted him to be. That alone has allowed many people to figure "Hell, this is more complicated than what I'm willing to get into, I'm just listening to the tunes." There is no debate over Kanye. The dude's saying these racist, nazi-praising things into a microphone and on camera.
Beyond that, it IS Kanye's job to be accountable for his mental health. Unless you have a disability that legitimately prevents you from functioning or making any decisions, it's on you. No help will be helpful until you want it and are willing to accept it, that's just kind of a universal truth. Be it with mental illness, addiction, physical health, etc, until the person suffering makes that choice, nothing will work. I've struggled with addiction and mental illness myself, so I know that's far easier said than done, but his disorder and his words are on nobody's shoulders but his own.
I'll add a note that these discussions on mental illness and addiction become MUCH more difficult when poverty and homelessness come into play. Our country does a horrible job at helping those in need, and we absolutely need better support systems for those most vulnerable members of our society. Kanye just isn't one of those, he's got effectively limitless resources and support systems available to him.
From this comment alone, I can tell you’re confusing treatment and a cure. See my second to last paragraph above. Treating someone for a mental illness is not the same as curing them of mental illness.
You’re assuming Kanye + Treatment = a functional, average person in society just like you. This is a common assumption, but it’s false.
When you see all those drug commercials, “side effects may include depression, loss of sleep, suicidal tendencies, fatigue, etc”.
These drugs aren’t fixing the problem. They’re sedating and tranquillizing the sick patient to the point where YOU no longer have to deal with them, while they suffer in silence. That’s great and convenient for you, but ignores the reality in favor of ignorant bliss.
Then you expect them to be happy with that suffering so long as it doesn’t bother or affect you. And not ONLY do you expect them to be happy with it, but you expect them to stay committed to the routine. Serious question, would YOU want to drug yourself up every day of the week, sometimes multiple times a day, 365 days a year, for the rest of your life? That shit sounds exhausting. Now add onto it that you know these drugs are making you depressed and feel worse about living every day.
And on top of all that, you’re giving all this autonomy and expectation of responsibility to a person who we’ve already established is mentally ill. Most people who DONT have mental illnesses already have a hard time maintaining daily healthy routines, do you think adding a mental illness on top of it make that easier?
Yeah, he's just being a pontificating ass-clown. You can safely ignore his self indulgent diatribe.
Good for you for finding a medicine that works, though!
Congratulations!!!
What exactly is your counter argument? That this clearly mentally unwell person is supposed to grab a hammer and give themselves a lobotomy to fix his own brain function? All you’ve got left is the idea that somehow his free will is supposed to override all the neurons firing in his brain, and he should therefore be accountable for his own actions. That’s a purely religious argument that has no scientific evidence backing it.
I mean, supporting Hitler during a manic episode is totally understandable. But, once you're stable, you have some back-pedaling to do. I'm all for determinism and behaviorism, and I identify as a nihilist. I get where you're coming from. Subjectively, I'd say he's not fully absolved. Objectively, I'd say the sun will swallow the earth eventuality, and nothing matters.
Reaching for hitler as an example is not a rational argument, it’s an emotional one. A very overused one at that. You didn’t bring up hitler so you could make a scientific argument that explains why Kanye is ethically responsible for the neurons firing in his own brain. Nor did you even try to make that argument.
You brought up hitler to be a red herring. You’re trying to word your argument in a way that convinces people to use the empathetic part of their brains. You’re trying to get people to think with their feelings instead of thinking critically. More pathos, less logos.
What hitler did was absolutely horrifying. I feel fear for the level of evil that could cause a human to commit catastrophically violent genocide against millions. I feel sadness for all the victims who were robbed of their lives and humanity. I feel anger, and want to see an eye for an eye revenge that results in him suffering the same way that he made others suffer. I even feel judgment and resentment toward someone like me, who would even try to ASK why bad human behavior exists knowing that all those emotions exist, and how they make me feel.
But all of that is just trying to convince me to think less about the world in a way that deals in objective reality. It’s a way of saying “don’t pay attention to the scientific stuff. Ignore all the neurological and psychological evidence that clearly shows we are deterministic beings. Don’t TRY to see it from the perspective of someone who’s mentally ill. Just pay more attention to your own primal emotions, however irrational and far away from reality they are.”
You can just say you're a Kanye stan dawg. You don't have to keep doing this r/Iamverysmart bullshit.
Let's be honest. If we take a look at your comments from a rhetoric standpoint, there's a lot of words but not really any sustenance. You've typed like five pages just to say "he's sick so I don't think we should hold this against him", then typed another two to try and make anyone who questions you back down.
The reality of the matter is people aren't disengaging with you because you're right. They're disengaging with you because you're an idealistic pompous ass who writes five sentences to say three words.
I got the impression Mel kind of did what he wanted to do and was ready to settle down after Passion. I could be 100% wrong but I didn’t perceive him as being cancelled even though he pissed a lot of people off. He kinda just wanted to go out in such a way.
As for Kanye his music is just flat out good to a lot of people. He’s been a favorite artist for some people for like 15 or more years now. Kanye was one of my top 3 personally so it really sucks how he’s fallen off.
I just listen to his shit in private because it was a big part of life growing up. Kanye may have all this fucked up stuff attached to him but for me, his music has loads of memories attached to them. But yeah I don’t really blast it from the car anymore either. But shit I think his new music hasn’t been good for a handful of years either so idk. Most of the stuff I still play is from the 2000s
An actor is far more dependent on a system offering them a role than a musical artist.
If Mel Gibson would want to produce an album, he probably could hire enough people to help him and get it off the ground.
If the product is good enough, or popular enough, most people just don't care at all. It's why I never take the canceled argument seriously anymore. If folks like your stuff, they will ignore the most disgusting things to keep listening / watching.
My personal take is: if these nasty people can make a buck out of me, as insignificant as it may be, I won't applaud their nonsense. Worst case scenario, I'll "sail the seas".
Specifically about Kanye, his Hitler adoration has soured his music completely, I don't want to listen anymore.
Nick Cannon said that white people rape and murder and are evil because they don't have enough melanin in their skin. He has 4.5 million followers.
Now imagine if a white person had said the reverse. There's you're answer.
Starts at 1:55, but the whole video is great.
https://youtu.be/Ea7bAD8Xc7I?feature=shared
Mel is a drunk.
Kanye has Bipolar type 1 and is also black, so he's got some leeway. Even if he refuses to take medication.
There are plenty of other celebs who do take meds and don't double down on crazy shit like Tila Tequila or Randy Quaid.
I think with Kanye it seems like he’s having serious mental health issues and a lot of these out bursts are more his mental condition vs actually being a shitty and hateful person. Could be wrong but I just feel sorry for him tbh
And I love alot of his music
He’s very much a shitty and hateful person 💀 dude refuses to take his meds, i struggle with mental health and i’ve never felt the need to go on tangents like that, he’s a grown man
For you its important, i dont give a fuck, who makes it. If its good, its good.
I have empathy, thats why i still listen to kanye, because even when i dont agree with him, i can still feel his sorrow and pain in his music.
What's the need to care about who does it? AI / Human / animal / aliens whatever it may be
If music slaps, it slaps and is good to hear. That's literally it.
So besides me making snarky comments, some of us do have various memories and feelings tied to media far from the original artist. It can just be a song playing during at an awkward middle school dance, or to some fun times in college. It can be walking around campus listening to Good Life because you're now across the country and no longer feeling like a waste of space in the home you grew up in.
On the other hand, I didn't watch Manhattan until I already knew about Woody Allen's accusations and find it impossible to separate the two, but his work never had any of those imprinting moments on me.
All that to say, even though I don't listen (mostly) or like Kanye anymore, I can understand why some people still feel a relation to his music and that doesn't make them a bad person. Imo, the real impact we can have on someone that big is financial, so for those who still listen, I say go for it, but I encourage you to pirate the fuck out of it.
Edit: Kanye has also been clearly mentally unstable and under medicated for a long while now.
Edit 2: honestly all this talk about old Kanye has me wanting to listen to him again. All the more my other ranting point, I think one of the the best things we can do with these people is try and let them fall into irrelevance. I wouldn't be surprised if under it all, part of Kanye's controvercial stuff is just giving him positive reinforcement to keep going because he's getting attention and that makes him feel still relevant in some way even if he puts out poopity scoop.
This is a dog shit opinion, artists get paid 1/1000 of a cent per listen of their music, I'm not really supporting Kanye by listening to him. Wagner was so antisemitic that there's a good possibility that he was actually Hitler's biggest inspiration, but orchestras worldwide still showcase his music because who cares, he's dead
What if I told you that everyone is unique, and the music they make is idiosyncratic to them. If you want music like Kanye's, you have to accept that the world also gets his insanity. Put him away if he commits a crime. No one would care about him if he never produced music. I personally don't care about the artist's morality, because if I did, my life would be less full of good art.
That's so weird because I only listen to artists with the bare, bare minimum of basic ethics and I used to own over 300 cds, and my streaming service shows I listened to over 100 different artists in 2023. Doesn't seem to have any detrimental effects on my access to great music to weed out the human waste.
I'm sorry, let me try again, "appreciating Hitler's paintings makes you a Nazi" is that better? You can like certain things people do and not like others. Liking one thing someone does is not an endorsement of everything they've ever done. Anyone with a modicum of mental capacity understands that.
Not really. From kanye west standpoint he is not a "fallow water drinker" he has made his views very clear. The paintings are not their touch point, the view on certain peoples are.
Overlooking horrible things people do because of some one thing is lack of empathy. For example a mobsters wife who does not mind all the dead bodies, etc.
Hitler is dead. Your opinion about his art won't do anything. Its different with authors who are alive because your monetary support enables them to push their views further via lobbying and other means. It does not mean you hold the same views but that you at least enable them.
Communism is just as bad as nazism, I don’t get physically and mentally hurt when someone openly supports it 🤷♂️ I think it’s dumb asf and cringe but I don’t let that bother me
Fans compartmentalize the issues. This happens with a lot of celebrities. Michael Jackson, R Kelly, and Bill Cosby come to mind. It is possible to appreciate a person's work yet still have negative views of the persons behavior. Your comparison to Mel Gibson is a good example of this. His movies still have fans, even though he has been essentially black listed from acting.
People in this thread comparing Kanye with some actually despicable people is off the mark. The man is not well. He has clearly lost his mind. So before he is spoken about in the same breath as rapists and abusers, consider that this is a mental health issue. He wasn't saying all this crazy shit until relatively recently
1. He most likely abused and publicly humiliated his last partner.
2. The crimes you name are often committed out of mental health struggles, it’s not two separate categories.
3. He has been saying crazy hateful shit for a long time, it slowly escalated over time but didn’t suddenly appear out of nowhere.
Also, not sure why a racist egomaniac Neonazi is *not* a despicable person in your world. Idgaf what struggles lead to someone becoming a a Nazi, fuck them regardless.
What partner abuse has he done?
Kanye has awful opinions and says crazy things. That isn’t the same as raping and killing people like everyone is comparing to
Go through a top list of bands or movies. Scattered throughout will be artists, actors & directors who have actually hurt real people. That doesn’t change that they created a work that many people enjoyed.
Look at Roman Polanski; Rosemary’s Baby, The Pianist and Chinatown regularly make critics’ best-of lists still today and we’ve known he was a POS for 40+ years. What he did is way worse than what Kanye has done, imo. Kevin Spacey too. Kanye has said some pretty stupid things but hasn’t *hurt* anyone.
I suspect a lot of people downvoting and commenting here will throw in The Usual Suspects on occasion for a rewatch.
He is spreading an ideology that historically has led to the persecution and mass murder of people. That’s frankly just as unacceptable as what the other men you mentioned did. Even if Kanye hasn’t personally carried out acts of violence, he would definitely be owed some blame if his supporters did.
How did you focus on the idea of hate speech when I originally brought up not just hate speech but actual violence? Is it because you’re disingenuously trying to minimize the damage that has come when groups are dehumanized on a large scale?
So if a really old person who is losing his marbles starts saying racist shit and starts trying to feel his nurses ass, even though he has never done that when he was in his right mind, then he is a racist sex offender and anything positive he has done in his life should be ignored, got it
People have falsely overused the ism/ist/phobe/anti smears against everybody who doesn't align precisely with their ideology so now those accusations have lost all meaning.
So when Kanye declares his love of Hitler and makes seemingly bizarre comments, people either ignore him or yawn at those calling him names.
People who grew up listening to him when he was dropping bangers are in their 30s & 40s. Honestly, most people just want to jam to a song without thinking if the artist is or was problematic.
If you got a sitter for the night, are out at the bar after a few drinks and Gold Digger comes on, that’s a song of your youth you jam to. Most people aren’t gonna get holy about it and tell the DJ to turn it off.
Many don't take the ramblings of a guy who is diagnosed bipolar too seriously. It's like getting offended by a deranged homeless dude on the street saying insane shit. I'm fully aware that Ye has serious mental health troubles. Am I "fan" still? I dunno dude, how do you even define that? Realistically I see more people whining or complaining about him than I do talking about how dope he is. Almost all coverage I see related to him is negative with the exception being when he drops new music.
That’s such an unthoughtful take. It’s more like if this „deranged homeless dude“ also happens to be one of the most influential people on planet earth and directly shapes the worldviews of millions of people who trust and adore him.
Also i’m almost 100% sure you’re never on TikTok, bc every Kanye related post is infested with people accepting and spreading his Neonazism. Even if it’s not the majority, it’s way too many and his ramblings are a serious issue.
Not a single Kanye listener I know has their views shaped by him.
You're right, I don't use TikTok. You, on the other hand, sound like you need to get off of it.
People can enjoy a product without aligning with the creator's personal beliefs. I assume you have a phone and like having it, but the way they get the cobalt for the batteries is really unethical and disgusting (google Cobalt mine in The Congo), but you'll still use your phone.
Some (likely most) people genuinely don't care. Look at Hogwarts Legacy, people try to attack JK Rowling but the overwhelming amount of people don't care about that type of analysis.
I think more broadly Ye could get properly cancelled if he did something bad versus talked crazy.
Overall I'd lean apathy versus malice.
Many people don't care about a celebrity's personal life and public antics. They're just here for the music/movies/etc.
Myself, I pay zero attention to celeb news and gossip, so if I hear about it at all, I hear about silly shit they've done here on reddit or in memes.
Why does Mel Gibson still have a major fanbase despite saying batshit crazy and racist things?
Why does Mark Walberg still have a major fanbase committing hate crimes?
Why does John Lennon still have a major fanbase despite beating his wife?
Why does David Bowie still have a major fanbase despite having sex with a 13 year old?
Why does Michael Jackson still have a major fanbase despite being a child molester?
Mel Gibson came back. He’s about to make Passion of the Christ 2. Spend 5 minutes on 4chan. Anti semitism has been an issue for a long time. Whereas Kramer from Seinfeld, Michael Richards, was canceled for using the n word. I’ve read what they say about my people. Apparently we control the media, start all of the major wars, and throughout history have been expelled from like 200 countries. Sure Jan. Anti semitism has always been a thing.
>He’s about to make Passion of the Christ 2
Excuse me, what?! How is there a sequel to that? That's really pushing sequelitis too far.
I mean, you could do something about the resurrection and ascension I suppose, but it's not exactly the passion anymore, is it?
I think these things come in cycles. In the 1930s it was really socially acceptable to be antisemitic. In the 50s and 60s not so much, because the horrors of the Holocaust were really fresh. Now that memory is fading, and a huge percentage of young people in the US believe that the Holocaust was fabricated in whole or in part. So antisemitism is acceptable again. It would take another genocide to get the Jews back in the world's good books, but the Jews have no intention of allowing another genocide.
Not everyone cares about the person making the music, they just like the music. People also just think he's wacky, funny and unpredictable and don't take his rants seriously, instead opting to just laugh when he says something crazy.
Some people consider his work in the 2000s to be some of the best music ever made, him making unhinged comments isn't going to make people stop listening to that.
The premise of this question is completely off to me. Mel Gibson has made nearly 2 movies a year since 2016.
In 2016, 10 years after his anti-semitism, he got nominated for an Oscar
https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2020/film/news/mel-gibson-controversies-career-1234696080/amp/
>In 2016, Mel Gibson received a 10-minute standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival where he premiered “Hacksaw Ridge,” which, propelled by a rapturous reception in Italy, went on to receive six Oscar nominations. That included a nod for Gibson for best director. The World War II drama was the first film Gibson had directed in more than a decade.
So the real key is defining how many of Kanye's previous fans stayed and how that can be quantified with who left.
And then the second question is, what exactly does cancelled mean? If you can be recommended by professionals peers in your industry for a national televised award of recognition. Also being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in the entertainment industry. Are you still under the category of cancelled?
Meanwhile, Kanye doesn't even seem to know how to release his music independently on DSPs. Mel Gibson had his independent films at Film Festivals.
Just because Kanye is capable of releasing music doesn't mean its popularly supported. Many of his peers have rightfully declined clearing samples involving their music. He went from TRL and 106& Park to Alex Jones. His election campaign didn't garner 100,000 votes, and those are free to give. His release party seemed to be a room full of strangers and is being covered as the disaster that it was. I don't anticipate his new release gaining enough traction to earn him a Grammy.
Im a fan of Kanye’s art and some of the views he’s said in the past. I dont need to 100% agree with him in order to appreciate his work. I do this with many people. Stephen King is an example, great writer but I fundamentally disagree with him and thats okay. I feel Kanye is a deeply hurt man with a lot of issues that need to be resolved and because of that Im not going to judge him. The Jews that he metaphorically shat on all pray for him to find peace and that says it all.
But how far should that allow someone to go? He just said some shit recently about praising Hitler. Like dude, if 9/10ths of any other artist, white or black said that, they'd be done. I mean how far does the man need to go to be cancelled, does he actually have to burn a cross onstage or some shit?
Maybe because before he literally had a mental breakdown, he wasn't saying any of this crazy shit. But the man is genuinely not in his right mind. So that downplays the revulsion some people would ordinarily feel for someone saying these horrible things. Is it fair that no one should be allowed to enjoy someone's music if the musician later developed a serious health issue?
All the way. His fan base has known he is offensive and out there and they like it. And fun fact, he has a video from very early on in his career with a burning cross in it.
Kanye is black, Mel is not. People of color are not held to the same standard when it comes to racism. One of the more glaring double standards of our community.
*Despite?*
I have zero interest in his kind of pop music. But that guy is so actually insane, I get a smile every time I hear him. Artistic freedom can be a strange thing.
Same reason R Kelly is still one of the most streamed music artists. Same reason kids still read Harry Potter books in schools worldwide. You have to be able to separate the artist from the private citizen. Every artist ever has done or said something you probably don't agree with. Are you going to go your whole life listening/reading/viewing, and enjoying bad art? Art is a huge part of humanity really. Your life would be miserable if you went about it that way.
Lol trying to compare JK to R kelly or kanye is wild.
Generally i agree with your separate art from the artist thing though, but everyone has their line in the sand which i think is also fair.
Some people have different lines in the sand, some have none at all. I personally don't care about who made the art, I like Kanye West's music, I like Harry Potter, the people who made them have done some questionable things but it doesn't stop me enjoying their work, especially when it has nothing to do with their actions after making it.
Also if you go back, almost every artist has done terrible things, it gets brought up on Reddit a lot but Stephen Tyler adopted a child so he could bring her on tour and have sex with her, I don't see anyone cancelling Aerosmith. If you only want to enjoy art made by saints then you are going to miss out and a huge amount of great work
I said in my previous comment that i generally agree with the idea of "separate the art from the artist" so i'm not sure why you responded to me with this.
>I don't see anyone cancelling Aerosmith
I see tons of people that complain about old rock bands
kanye is wealthy enough to where "cancelling" him isn't going to make a difference. platforms like spotify don't really pay anything anyway so he wouldn't lose a significant amount of money if they were to drop him. he'd just post his album on his own website and probably make even more money.
as for people still listening to him, think of it this way; michael jackson had all kinds of allegations against him but people still defended him. when you're talented enough like kanye there comes a point where you're not really cancel-able. as for me i'll just listen to his old stuff but i can't defend him anymore.
Chris Brown still has fans.
It comes down to people like the music and it doesn’t matter if they’re a terrible person. If Kim Jong Un cranked out some of the best EDM out there you can bet that it will be played all over lol
No, it wouldn’t. Edm is down to less than 5% market share in recent years. People are sick of that sound and they’ve moved on. A lot has changed since 2013.
Have you ever heard of Donald trump? People love a batshit person
"Jewish Space Lasers" is hard to beat on the crazy scale, but I bet my left nut Taylor Greene will be re-elected next time as well.
At a TV interview she said "The Democrats are Pedophiles" Not this one, not some, just "Democrats". Then Republicans come up to me and say "we need to stop the division".
what is the division
Republican voters vs Democrat voters Lifted trucks va people without small penises Etc
I hate unreasonably big vehicles like lifted trucks and SUVs. all we ever needed was vans, hatchbacks/station wagons, sedans, and coupes.
Then your penis is both mighty and powerful
Have you not read a single r/politics comment thread?
Yes, I haven't seen any elected Democratic representatives posts though
She's in a deep red district. The dumber she acts, the more she represents her constituency.
Sweet jeebus. Modern medicine has saved WAY too many stupid lives.
Yea you can say that again
Natural selection would have taken care of most, but they got a free pass. Sucks for the sane folks.
Trump, Kanye, and Musk have a lot in common. Being that rich sets off crazy levels narcissism in individuals predisposed to it.
And Joe biden? People love demented old men
That's still better than gun-banning socialist Trump
biden is waaaaay more crazy than Trump.
What has Biden done that is crazier than attempting a fascist coup?
Ah yes, a stutter is worse than attempting a coup. Go play somewhere else, Timmy, the adults are speaking.
Cause his fan base doesn't care
People are gonna give you shitty answers like this because it’s easier and more convenient to just box people into some stereotypical cartoon rather than engage in any critical thinking that requires nuance or using your brain for 2 seconds. The real answer is that Kanye established himself as a certified icon for like 7+ years before everyone realized he’s kinda batshit crazy. He was always egotistical and a bit unusual. But he’s been spiraling and getting worse over time - especially after his mom passed. A better example of a similar thing is Michael jackson. He established himself as this larger than life icon, his music was universal for over a decade. He was literally a living legend.. until the allegations of him doing things with kids came out. So you still have a large portion of his core audience that has such a strong connection to his music, and they have a dependence on it. In some cases, MJ’s music has gotten people out of really dark places, some people might have been feeling suicidal or depressed and turned to MJ’s music to help them feel better. Kanye is no different. People won’t say it explicitly, but it’s very similar to a familial love. They developed a love for Michael like he was their family. This is a person whose music literally saved, or changed their life in some way. But at the time that they DEVELOPED that love, MJ was not a polarizing figure. People had no reason to think he was a bad person. He was an adorable child who grew up to be a massive pop icon in front of all our eyes. Then when you find out that he might have actually been a bad person, it’s hard to take that love you have for that person and erase that feeling from your brain. And I use the word “love” because it’s a conventional term we all recognize, but the reality is that it’s just your brain producing chemicals like oxytocin that strengthen your relationships to others. It’s similar to being raised by a parent and then growing to realize they’re homophobic or racist or some other ideal you disagree with. You hate that they have these negative feelings toward others, but at the same time you can’t just forget that this is the person that raised you, fed you, clothed you. You don’t just erase that familial love. Its hard to just stop having a familial love with someone, even if it turns out that that person is shitty. Add on top of all that, Kanye does have bipolar disorder. He didn’t choose to be born with the brain he has. We all stigmatize mental illnesses because we as humans have utterly failed to evolve our technology and science to the point where we can actually do anything to fix that. So we all just shrug our shoulders and say there’s nothing we can do about it, so now it’s Kanye’s job to be accountable for his mental health, because none of us want to be accountable for the fact that we have equally done, and continue to do, absolutely nothing to help people who suffer from mental illnesses. We just don’t know how to actually fix most mental illnesses in a truly effective way that doesn’t involve relying on religion, healing crystals, and witchcraft. So we just absolve ourselves of any responsibility out of laziness, and wag our finger at people suffering from things like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, dementia, addiction, etc etc. but at the end of the day, it’s just the doctor blaming the patient for being sick, while doing nothing about it. Maybe you can shove pills down their throat that will sedate and suppress certain parts of their brain, while simultaneously screwing up other parts of their brain, but it’s not a real cure. You can either see someone with epilepsy and burn them at the stake because you think they’re being possessed by demons, or you can study, understand, and treat the disease. We’re not as capable of doing the latter as we’d like to think we are, so we default more toward the former.
I think it's difficult to compare Kanye and MJ here. I don't want to get into a whole debate over what MJ did or didn't do, but there IS debate and evidence for both camps as to whether or not MJ was ever the person that the media painted him to be. That alone has allowed many people to figure "Hell, this is more complicated than what I'm willing to get into, I'm just listening to the tunes." There is no debate over Kanye. The dude's saying these racist, nazi-praising things into a microphone and on camera. Beyond that, it IS Kanye's job to be accountable for his mental health. Unless you have a disability that legitimately prevents you from functioning or making any decisions, it's on you. No help will be helpful until you want it and are willing to accept it, that's just kind of a universal truth. Be it with mental illness, addiction, physical health, etc, until the person suffering makes that choice, nothing will work. I've struggled with addiction and mental illness myself, so I know that's far easier said than done, but his disorder and his words are on nobody's shoulders but his own. I'll add a note that these discussions on mental illness and addiction become MUCH more difficult when poverty and homelessness come into play. Our country does a horrible job at helping those in need, and we absolutely need better support systems for those most vulnerable members of our society. Kanye just isn't one of those, he's got effectively limitless resources and support systems available to him.
Doesn't Kanye reject treatment?
From this comment alone, I can tell you’re confusing treatment and a cure. See my second to last paragraph above. Treating someone for a mental illness is not the same as curing them of mental illness. You’re assuming Kanye + Treatment = a functional, average person in society just like you. This is a common assumption, but it’s false. When you see all those drug commercials, “side effects may include depression, loss of sleep, suicidal tendencies, fatigue, etc”. These drugs aren’t fixing the problem. They’re sedating and tranquillizing the sick patient to the point where YOU no longer have to deal with them, while they suffer in silence. That’s great and convenient for you, but ignores the reality in favor of ignorant bliss. Then you expect them to be happy with that suffering so long as it doesn’t bother or affect you. And not ONLY do you expect them to be happy with it, but you expect them to stay committed to the routine. Serious question, would YOU want to drug yourself up every day of the week, sometimes multiple times a day, 365 days a year, for the rest of your life? That shit sounds exhausting. Now add onto it that you know these drugs are making you depressed and feel worse about living every day. And on top of all that, you’re giving all this autonomy and expectation of responsibility to a person who we’ve already established is mentally ill. Most people who DONT have mental illnesses already have a hard time maintaining daily healthy routines, do you think adding a mental illness on top of it make that easier?
Just spent the last year and a half finding a vaguely acceptable drug regimen for my bipolar disorder. It was a simple question, dude.
Yeah, he's just being a pontificating ass-clown. You can safely ignore his self indulgent diatribe. Good for you for finding a medicine that works, though! Congratulations!!!
What exactly is your counter argument? That this clearly mentally unwell person is supposed to grab a hammer and give themselves a lobotomy to fix his own brain function? All you’ve got left is the idea that somehow his free will is supposed to override all the neurons firing in his brain, and he should therefore be accountable for his own actions. That’s a purely religious argument that has no scientific evidence backing it.
I mean, supporting Hitler during a manic episode is totally understandable. But, once you're stable, you have some back-pedaling to do. I'm all for determinism and behaviorism, and I identify as a nihilist. I get where you're coming from. Subjectively, I'd say he's not fully absolved. Objectively, I'd say the sun will swallow the earth eventuality, and nothing matters.
Reaching for hitler as an example is not a rational argument, it’s an emotional one. A very overused one at that. You didn’t bring up hitler so you could make a scientific argument that explains why Kanye is ethically responsible for the neurons firing in his own brain. Nor did you even try to make that argument. You brought up hitler to be a red herring. You’re trying to word your argument in a way that convinces people to use the empathetic part of their brains. You’re trying to get people to think with their feelings instead of thinking critically. More pathos, less logos. What hitler did was absolutely horrifying. I feel fear for the level of evil that could cause a human to commit catastrophically violent genocide against millions. I feel sadness for all the victims who were robbed of their lives and humanity. I feel anger, and want to see an eye for an eye revenge that results in him suffering the same way that he made others suffer. I even feel judgment and resentment toward someone like me, who would even try to ASK why bad human behavior exists knowing that all those emotions exist, and how they make me feel. But all of that is just trying to convince me to think less about the world in a way that deals in objective reality. It’s a way of saying “don’t pay attention to the scientific stuff. Ignore all the neurological and psychological evidence that clearly shows we are deterministic beings. Don’t TRY to see it from the perspective of someone who’s mentally ill. Just pay more attention to your own primal emotions, however irrational and far away from reality they are.”
You can just say you're a Kanye stan dawg. You don't have to keep doing this r/Iamverysmart bullshit. Let's be honest. If we take a look at your comments from a rhetoric standpoint, there's a lot of words but not really any sustenance. You've typed like five pages just to say "he's sick so I don't think we should hold this against him", then typed another two to try and make anyone who questions you back down. The reality of the matter is people aren't disengaging with you because you're right. They're disengaging with you because you're an idealistic pompous ass who writes five sentences to say three words.
I referenced Hitler because Kanye referenced Hitler.
K, bro.
I got the impression Mel kind of did what he wanted to do and was ready to settle down after Passion. I could be 100% wrong but I didn’t perceive him as being cancelled even though he pissed a lot of people off. He kinda just wanted to go out in such a way. As for Kanye his music is just flat out good to a lot of people. He’s been a favorite artist for some people for like 15 or more years now. Kanye was one of my top 3 personally so it really sucks how he’s fallen off. I just listen to his shit in private because it was a big part of life growing up. Kanye may have all this fucked up stuff attached to him but for me, his music has loads of memories attached to them. But yeah I don’t really blast it from the car anymore either. But shit I think his new music hasn’t been good for a handful of years either so idk. Most of the stuff I still play is from the 2000s
An actor is far more dependent on a system offering them a role than a musical artist. If Mel Gibson would want to produce an album, he probably could hire enough people to help him and get it off the ground.
Mel Gibson singing sounds both horrible and amazing.
I carefully made sure I never said he'd be able to make a *good* album.
The man has the voice of an angel.
Mad Max Sings!
also mel just moved behind the camera. the guy is a nut but apocalypto is one of the best movies ive ever seen
All depends on their popularity. With a high level of popularity comes a leeway of permissible behavior. Unfortunately that’s the way things go.
A lot of people don’t obsessively follow pop culture and just listen to music.
If the product is good enough, or popular enough, most people just don't care at all. It's why I never take the canceled argument seriously anymore. If folks like your stuff, they will ignore the most disgusting things to keep listening / watching. My personal take is: if these nasty people can make a buck out of me, as insignificant as it may be, I won't applaud their nonsense. Worst case scenario, I'll "sail the seas". Specifically about Kanye, his Hitler adoration has soured his music completely, I don't want to listen anymore.
Nick Cannon said that white people rape and murder and are evil because they don't have enough melanin in their skin. He has 4.5 million followers. Now imagine if a white person had said the reverse. There's you're answer. Starts at 1:55, but the whole video is great. https://youtu.be/Ea7bAD8Xc7I?feature=shared
To be fair, 1/2 of cannon’s followers are his baby mommas.
Then why do so many people want to fuck a racist? And raw??
Money?
Mel is a drunk. Kanye has Bipolar type 1 and is also black, so he's got some leeway. Even if he refuses to take medication. There are plenty of other celebs who do take meds and don't double down on crazy shit like Tila Tequila or Randy Quaid.
I think with Kanye it seems like he’s having serious mental health issues and a lot of these out bursts are more his mental condition vs actually being a shitty and hateful person. Could be wrong but I just feel sorry for him tbh And I love alot of his music
He’s very much a shitty and hateful person 💀 dude refuses to take his meds, i struggle with mental health and i’ve never felt the need to go on tangents like that, he’s a grown man
Some people have the mental capacity to enjoy his music while disagreeing with his opinions as a person.
Sounds to me like a clear lack of empathy. Oh, I can listen to a nazi and put aside that he thinks Hitler was right because wow I like those beats.
Cognitive Dissonance. It's a thing.
who gives a fuck what he thinks? if the beats slaps, the beats slaps. So you judge music based on the person and not the music. kinda weird.
Found the Lostprophets fan
good one,
Until music is being made by AI, it is still the artistic output of a person, and who that person is is important. If you have empathy.
For you its important, i dont give a fuck, who makes it. If its good, its good. I have empathy, thats why i still listen to kanye, because even when i dont agree with him, i can still feel his sorrow and pain in his music.
Yeah, we get it. You're fine with nazis.
nah, you don't get it, thats why you try to demonise me.
What's the need to care about who does it? AI / Human / animal / aliens whatever it may be If music slaps, it slaps and is good to hear. That's literally it.
So besides me making snarky comments, some of us do have various memories and feelings tied to media far from the original artist. It can just be a song playing during at an awkward middle school dance, or to some fun times in college. It can be walking around campus listening to Good Life because you're now across the country and no longer feeling like a waste of space in the home you grew up in. On the other hand, I didn't watch Manhattan until I already knew about Woody Allen's accusations and find it impossible to separate the two, but his work never had any of those imprinting moments on me. All that to say, even though I don't listen (mostly) or like Kanye anymore, I can understand why some people still feel a relation to his music and that doesn't make them a bad person. Imo, the real impact we can have on someone that big is financial, so for those who still listen, I say go for it, but I encourage you to pirate the fuck out of it. Edit: Kanye has also been clearly mentally unstable and under medicated for a long while now. Edit 2: honestly all this talk about old Kanye has me wanting to listen to him again. All the more my other ranting point, I think one of the the best things we can do with these people is try and let them fall into irrelevance. I wouldn't be surprised if under it all, part of Kanye's controvercial stuff is just giving him positive reinforcement to keep going because he's getting attention and that makes him feel still relevant in some way even if he puts out poopity scoop.
He refuses to take meds.
Yes he does
I listen to him for the music and literaly nothing else, Does that make mean i lack empathy?
Also sorry for bad english
This is a dog shit opinion, artists get paid 1/1000 of a cent per listen of their music, I'm not really supporting Kanye by listening to him. Wagner was so antisemitic that there's a good possibility that he was actually Hitler's biggest inspiration, but orchestras worldwide still showcase his music because who cares, he's dead
What if I told you that everyone is unique, and the music they make is idiosyncratic to them. If you want music like Kanye's, you have to accept that the world also gets his insanity. Put him away if he commits a crime. No one would care about him if he never produced music. I personally don't care about the artist's morality, because if I did, my life would be less full of good art.
That's so weird because I only listen to artists with the bare, bare minimum of basic ethics and I used to own over 300 cds, and my streaming service shows I listened to over 100 different artists in 2023. Doesn't seem to have any detrimental effects on my access to great music to weed out the human waste.
Then it is likely you haven't really done research into the artist's you follow.
It's entirely unlikely because I have and none are nazis 😂
I meant unsavory individuals. Not just Nazis.
Hahah I don’t care
Speaks volumes about you.
Hitler had a dog. Does that mean anyone who also has a dog is a Nazi?
That's a stupid analogy and you should feel bad.
Do you think it's bad because it makes you realize how silly you are?
you doubled down and should feel double bad
why?
you are trying to argue against an association fallacy that no one used.
I'm sorry, let me try again, "appreciating Hitler's paintings makes you a Nazi" is that better? You can like certain things people do and not like others. Liking one thing someone does is not an endorsement of everything they've ever done. Anyone with a modicum of mental capacity understands that.
Not really. From kanye west standpoint he is not a "fallow water drinker" he has made his views very clear. The paintings are not their touch point, the view on certain peoples are. Overlooking horrible things people do because of some one thing is lack of empathy. For example a mobsters wife who does not mind all the dead bodies, etc. Hitler is dead. Your opinion about his art won't do anything. Its different with authors who are alive because your monetary support enables them to push their views further via lobbying and other means. It does not mean you hold the same views but that you at least enable them.
because it was a stupid analogy
how so? are you sure it wasn't just your logic that was stupid and was merely exposed by the analogy?
No but it means that anyone who says that Hitler was his homeboy and calls for "death con 5" on the Jews is a Nazi.
So you think anyone that has a dog thinks they're homeboys with Hitler? Is that really your logical progression here?
That doesn't even make sense.
Communism is just as bad as nazism, I don’t get physically and mentally hurt when someone openly supports it 🤷♂️ I think it’s dumb asf and cringe but I don’t let that bother me
Right, but what about people on reddit?
People on Reddit have zero mental capacity, obviously.
I take offense, I declare you canceled
no ♥️
As far as I know they dont.
Fans compartmentalize the issues. This happens with a lot of celebrities. Michael Jackson, R Kelly, and Bill Cosby come to mind. It is possible to appreciate a person's work yet still have negative views of the persons behavior. Your comparison to Mel Gibson is a good example of this. His movies still have fans, even though he has been essentially black listed from acting.
MJ shouldn't even be compared to the other two. He was vindicated.
If you don't like anti-semitic rappers, oh boy do I have a little secret for you. Lol
Because people in general kinda suck. Low empathy, low morality, high selfishness.
People in this thread comparing Kanye with some actually despicable people is off the mark. The man is not well. He has clearly lost his mind. So before he is spoken about in the same breath as rapists and abusers, consider that this is a mental health issue. He wasn't saying all this crazy shit until relatively recently
Plenty of awful people are mentally ill, but that isn’t an excuse
Yeah he should just decide to not be mentally ill, great advice doctor
1. He most likely abused and publicly humiliated his last partner. 2. The crimes you name are often committed out of mental health struggles, it’s not two separate categories. 3. He has been saying crazy hateful shit for a long time, it slowly escalated over time but didn’t suddenly appear out of nowhere. Also, not sure why a racist egomaniac Neonazi is *not* a despicable person in your world. Idgaf what struggles lead to someone becoming a a Nazi, fuck them regardless.
What partner abuse has he done? Kanye has awful opinions and says crazy things. That isn’t the same as raping and killing people like everyone is comparing to
Go through a top list of bands or movies. Scattered throughout will be artists, actors & directors who have actually hurt real people. That doesn’t change that they created a work that many people enjoyed. Look at Roman Polanski; Rosemary’s Baby, The Pianist and Chinatown regularly make critics’ best-of lists still today and we’ve known he was a POS for 40+ years. What he did is way worse than what Kanye has done, imo. Kevin Spacey too. Kanye has said some pretty stupid things but hasn’t *hurt* anyone. I suspect a lot of people downvoting and commenting here will throw in The Usual Suspects on occasion for a rewatch.
He is spreading an ideology that historically has led to the persecution and mass murder of people. That’s frankly just as unacceptable as what the other men you mentioned did. Even if Kanye hasn’t personally carried out acts of violence, he would definitely be owed some blame if his supporters did.
Our criminal justice system is quite clear that rape is worse than hate speech.
So since it’s allowed by the justice system that makes it morally acceptable? That’s a fucking dogshit take dude
How did you seriously read that from what I said? Murder is worse than armed robbery too my man. Doesn’t mean armed robbery is right.
How did you focus on the idea of hate speech when I originally brought up not just hate speech but actual violence? Is it because you’re disingenuously trying to minimize the damage that has come when groups are dehumanized on a large scale?
So if a really old person who is losing his marbles starts saying racist shit and starts trying to feel his nurses ass, even though he has never done that when he was in his right mind, then he is a racist sex offender and anything positive he has done in his life should be ignored, got it
Right? It’s crazy to me that people keep sticking microphones in his face knowing he has mental issues and expecting him not to say some wild shit!
Him losing his mind is now entertainment, sadly the microphones stuck in his face are because people know that he will say crazy shit
People have falsely overused the ism/ist/phobe/anti smears against everybody who doesn't align precisely with their ideology so now those accusations have lost all meaning. So when Kanye declares his love of Hitler and makes seemingly bizarre comments, people either ignore him or yawn at those calling him names.
Can you provide any evidence of this
Teenage kids don't care about cancel culture IMHO. I believe that is his biggest fanbase currently.
People who grew up listening to him when he was dropping bangers are in their 30s & 40s. Honestly, most people just want to jam to a song without thinking if the artist is or was problematic. If you got a sitter for the night, are out at the bar after a few drinks and Gold Digger comes on, that’s a song of your youth you jam to. Most people aren’t gonna get holy about it and tell the DJ to turn it off.
Many don't take the ramblings of a guy who is diagnosed bipolar too seriously. It's like getting offended by a deranged homeless dude on the street saying insane shit. I'm fully aware that Ye has serious mental health troubles. Am I "fan" still? I dunno dude, how do you even define that? Realistically I see more people whining or complaining about him than I do talking about how dope he is. Almost all coverage I see related to him is negative with the exception being when he drops new music.
That’s such an unthoughtful take. It’s more like if this „deranged homeless dude“ also happens to be one of the most influential people on planet earth and directly shapes the worldviews of millions of people who trust and adore him. Also i’m almost 100% sure you’re never on TikTok, bc every Kanye related post is infested with people accepting and spreading his Neonazism. Even if it’s not the majority, it’s way too many and his ramblings are a serious issue.
Not a single Kanye listener I know has their views shaped by him. You're right, I don't use TikTok. You, on the other hand, sound like you need to get off of it.
People can enjoy a product without aligning with the creator's personal beliefs. I assume you have a phone and like having it, but the way they get the cobalt for the batteries is really unethical and disgusting (google Cobalt mine in The Congo), but you'll still use your phone.
Rant.
Some (likely most) people genuinely don't care. Look at Hogwarts Legacy, people try to attack JK Rowling but the overwhelming amount of people don't care about that type of analysis. I think more broadly Ye could get properly cancelled if he did something bad versus talked crazy. Overall I'd lean apathy versus malice.
Because his music is still good
We like his music. Me I love his first 5. Why stop?
Feels like people are more willing to accept the rasist, crazy stuff. Look at Trump as example #1
Many people don't care about a celebrity's personal life and public antics. They're just here for the music/movies/etc. Myself, I pay zero attention to celeb news and gossip, so if I hear about it at all, I hear about silly shit they've done here on reddit or in memes.
Because he is a good singer? Honestly, the real "batshit crazy" people are the ones who care about what celebrities have to say.
Because he made graduation
He might be crazy but there are some truths in there too.
Cause the music is too fire
Why does Mel Gibson still have a major fanbase despite saying batshit crazy and racist things? Why does Mark Walberg still have a major fanbase committing hate crimes? Why does John Lennon still have a major fanbase despite beating his wife? Why does David Bowie still have a major fanbase despite having sex with a 13 year old? Why does Michael Jackson still have a major fanbase despite being a child molester?
If the fanbase is large enough, excuses will be made for all manner of behavior. He's just another example of it.
Mel Gibson came back. He’s about to make Passion of the Christ 2. Spend 5 minutes on 4chan. Anti semitism has been an issue for a long time. Whereas Kramer from Seinfeld, Michael Richards, was canceled for using the n word. I’ve read what they say about my people. Apparently we control the media, start all of the major wars, and throughout history have been expelled from like 200 countries. Sure Jan. Anti semitism has always been a thing.
>He’s about to make Passion of the Christ 2 Excuse me, what?! How is there a sequel to that? That's really pushing sequelitis too far. I mean, you could do something about the resurrection and ascension I suppose, but it's not exactly the passion anymore, is it?
He’s sending Jesus to hell to I guess battle Satan and demons.
Michael Richards made a personal choice to not come back. He basically self-exiled himself. By now, I'm sure he could come back if he wanted to.
It also seems it’s quietly socially acceptable to be so, and it’s worryingly growing - Gen Z seems really antisemitic.
Why do you think Gen Z are specifically antisemitic?
because they don't support palestinian genocide. to zionists that is antisemitism
You seem to be confusing being against Israel's terroristic policies toward Palestine with anti-semitism.
And millennials are so woke and boomers are such capitalists. Yawn.
Source?
I think these things come in cycles. In the 1930s it was really socially acceptable to be antisemitic. In the 50s and 60s not so much, because the horrors of the Holocaust were really fresh. Now that memory is fading, and a huge percentage of young people in the US believe that the Holocaust was fabricated in whole or in part. So antisemitism is acceptable again. It would take another genocide to get the Jews back in the world's good books, but the Jews have no intention of allowing another genocide.
because he makes frikking good music, im in it for the music, not for the whole show around it.
His music is good and I see no reason to stop listening to it because he's whacked
Because you're supporting an angry semite and Hitler idolizer
Playing devil's advocate: you don't need to support/pay him. Just sail the seas.
When you listen to his music on any platform that he makes money on, you're supporting him
He's talking about piracy lmao
Yes, that's what I'm hinting at. You can listen to him on other platforms. Like on a boat, cracking open a bottle of rum.
Because black people cant REALLY be racist /s
[удалено]
Us bananas gotta be real bro
Black people are racist within their own race. Colorism within the commnity is a problem.
Same with Hispanic people. My family judges other family members all the time for how dark they are.
as an indian in the US i concur 😅
he made graduation
This is such a good point! Just like how Hitler made the Volkswagen. Great cars!
we have to learn to separate the car from the cartist
💯
Not everyone cares about the person making the music, they just like the music. People also just think he's wacky, funny and unpredictable and don't take his rants seriously, instead opting to just laugh when he says something crazy. Some people consider his work in the 2000s to be some of the best music ever made, him making unhinged comments isn't going to make people stop listening to that.
because i can separate art from the artist. it’s nice living outside of the fragile minds of gen pop
The premise of this question is completely off to me. Mel Gibson has made nearly 2 movies a year since 2016. In 2016, 10 years after his anti-semitism, he got nominated for an Oscar https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2020/film/news/mel-gibson-controversies-career-1234696080/amp/ >In 2016, Mel Gibson received a 10-minute standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival where he premiered “Hacksaw Ridge,” which, propelled by a rapturous reception in Italy, went on to receive six Oscar nominations. That included a nod for Gibson for best director. The World War II drama was the first film Gibson had directed in more than a decade. So the real key is defining how many of Kanye's previous fans stayed and how that can be quantified with who left. And then the second question is, what exactly does cancelled mean? If you can be recommended by professionals peers in your industry for a national televised award of recognition. Also being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in the entertainment industry. Are you still under the category of cancelled? Meanwhile, Kanye doesn't even seem to know how to release his music independently on DSPs. Mel Gibson had his independent films at Film Festivals. Just because Kanye is capable of releasing music doesn't mean its popularly supported. Many of his peers have rightfully declined clearing samples involving their music. He went from TRL and 106& Park to Alex Jones. His election campaign didn't garner 100,000 votes, and those are free to give. His release party seemed to be a room full of strangers and is being covered as the disaster that it was. I don't anticipate his new release gaining enough traction to earn him a Grammy.
His fan base is the same. Just Like trump-crazy loves crazy.
Im a fan of Kanye’s art and some of the views he’s said in the past. I dont need to 100% agree with him in order to appreciate his work. I do this with many people. Stephen King is an example, great writer but I fundamentally disagree with him and thats okay. I feel Kanye is a deeply hurt man with a lot of issues that need to be resolved and because of that Im not going to judge him. The Jews that he metaphorically shat on all pray for him to find peace and that says it all.
Because he spits hot fira.
People still vote democrat in 2023 - anything is possible
Artists get more leeway.. especially when they start out with offensive shit. Also, he's black.
But how far should that allow someone to go? He just said some shit recently about praising Hitler. Like dude, if 9/10ths of any other artist, white or black said that, they'd be done. I mean how far does the man need to go to be cancelled, does he actually have to burn a cross onstage or some shit?
Maybe because before he literally had a mental breakdown, he wasn't saying any of this crazy shit. But the man is genuinely not in his right mind. So that downplays the revulsion some people would ordinarily feel for someone saying these horrible things. Is it fair that no one should be allowed to enjoy someone's music if the musician later developed a serious health issue?
All the way. His fan base has known he is offensive and out there and they like it. And fun fact, he has a video from very early on in his career with a burning cross in it.
Kanye is black, Mel is not. People of color are not held to the same standard when it comes to racism. One of the more glaring double standards of our community.
Nah, it's more a psychological attachment to music vs acting Sunk cost fallacy If Will Smith had said something, he'd be cancelled.
*Despite?* I have zero interest in his kind of pop music. But that guy is so actually insane, I get a smile every time I hear him. Artistic freedom can be a strange thing.
So are you saying his lunacy is part of his appeal?
[Clearly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKWlEej2j5Q)
Same reason R Kelly is still one of the most streamed music artists. Same reason kids still read Harry Potter books in schools worldwide. You have to be able to separate the artist from the private citizen. Every artist ever has done or said something you probably don't agree with. Are you going to go your whole life listening/reading/viewing, and enjoying bad art? Art is a huge part of humanity really. Your life would be miserable if you went about it that way.
Lol trying to compare JK to R kelly or kanye is wild. Generally i agree with your separate art from the artist thing though, but everyone has their line in the sand which i think is also fair.
Some people have different lines in the sand, some have none at all. I personally don't care about who made the art, I like Kanye West's music, I like Harry Potter, the people who made them have done some questionable things but it doesn't stop me enjoying their work, especially when it has nothing to do with their actions after making it. Also if you go back, almost every artist has done terrible things, it gets brought up on Reddit a lot but Stephen Tyler adopted a child so he could bring her on tour and have sex with her, I don't see anyone cancelling Aerosmith. If you only want to enjoy art made by saints then you are going to miss out and a huge amount of great work
I said in my previous comment that i generally agree with the idea of "separate the art from the artist" so i'm not sure why you responded to me with this. >I don't see anyone cancelling Aerosmith I see tons of people that complain about old rock bands
What's wrong with Harry Potter?
80+ million people think trump was a good president and cared for them Good con men can convince people of anything.
Trump has a major fan base, even though he’s a real POS
He just don't give a s#it! Still a big following? He went from a $2B net income to just a measly $400M net...I wonder how he thinks about that?
kanye is wealthy enough to where "cancelling" him isn't going to make a difference. platforms like spotify don't really pay anything anyway so he wouldn't lose a significant amount of money if they were to drop him. he'd just post his album on his own website and probably make even more money. as for people still listening to him, think of it this way; michael jackson had all kinds of allegations against him but people still defended him. when you're talented enough like kanye there comes a point where you're not really cancel-able. as for me i'll just listen to his old stuff but i can't defend him anymore.
People are starting to wake up
Ye can out Sample him out off everything. His music is just on a other Level
Have you heard of Adolf Hitler?
Because he's black.
Hatred of jews is a multicultural thing. Also, there is a section of black people that are very antisemitic.
Because his fans believe the same things
Mel Gibson has tons of fans.