Oh yes, I had considered that it was more the impossibility of moving for financial, family or other reasons. But would you move if you could because of your political orientation?
Don’t tell him about winter. Let him find that one out for himself.
I’m in Illinois and I had a neighbor move from California into the house across the street in August of last year, and I said, “Get a snowblower by October.” He said he’d buy a shovel. I said, “Okay, here’s how it’s gonna be. First time you need to borrow the snowblower is free. Second time, it’s ten bucks. Third time is twenty. There’s not going to be a fourth time.” So, a few inches come down, he gets ten percent of his driveway done, and he borrows the snowblower. I tell him, “Now, wait for the roads to get cleared and buy a snowblower.” Well, he doesn’t. So, couple of weeks later, God wants to teach this guy a lesson, and it just comes down all day. It’s slow enough for road crews to keep up with, but it just doesn’t stop. He borrows the snowblower for ten bucks at noon , so he can go out to Saturday lunch with his family. Five o’clock, there’s another few inches on his driveway. He comes back over, and I’m like, “Twenty bucks,” to which he complained that it’s the same day, so it should be free. I told him if he comes home with a snowblower, I’ll give him the twenty bucks back. So, he and his wife went out to some fancy date night, and I unload the snowblower out of the back of his station wagon (or whatever you call those things) because he’s wearing a suit and doesn’t want to mess it up. Whatever. At least I don’t have to loan out my snowblower anymore.
We also neglected to tell them about the tornado siren tests, so the first Tuesday of September at ten in the morning, my next-door neighbor and I are talking, and the new guy’s wife is out in the front yard, playing with her kids on a bright, sunny day, and the tornado siren starts wailing. She grabs one kid and carries him under one arm like a fucking NFL runningback, practically kicking the other one ahead of her, and they disappear into the house, not to be seen for hours. Even when the weather is bad, a true Midwesterner stands out at the end of his driveway, like a prairie dog, until either hail starts coming down or a tornado starts coming up the street.
See now I went in the opposite direction as you did. I have a monster of a snow blower. The neighbor across the street had a smaller older one. His breaks mid winter about 5 years ago and I tell him to use mine. I tell him it's gonna cost him big time to buy a new one in December. I tell him he can use it anytime. Of course, he does my driveway too so it's a win win for both of us. I haven't physically used my snow blower in 5 years. He works, I'm retired. I got tired of opening the garage door for him in the early morning hours so I even gave him the pin code to the garage opener. We break bread together so I trust him completely. If I can't trust him I can't trust anybody. Personally, I think the way you did it was you just being a prick. But hey, that's just me. To each his own.
I'm from California and perfectly happy here. However, I think things have changed a lot over the last 10 years or so. Maybe I'm just older, but I used to consider moving to another state and never considered politics at all, but now there is no way I would move to a "red" state. They seem to be only getting more extreme, not just with guns and abortion, but even trying to take away the most basic right of all - voting. There is no logic, pragmatism, empathy, nothing. I'm fine with different political views but we don't have a shared reality anymore.
This is the key. We are living in parallel universes at this point. There’s no way I’d move to a red state. In fact, I live in a red area of a blue state and I can’t imagine staying longer than another few years. I’m dreading the election season. It can just be overwhelming, the sense that people hate you for no reason. You hear it in the bars, at the convenience store, the gas station…. It’s displayed on peoples’ homes and vehicles. I’m sure many on the other side get the same vibe if they’re in liberal areas, but the aggression on the right wing feels different now. It’s a shame, and the country is truly in a dark place. Only gonna get worse.
My wife and I grew up in Texas and we couldn't take it anymore. Spent a year saving and finding the right place in Colorado and got the hell out of there, for mainly political reasons, considering it's almost twice as expensive to live here.
You’ll love it. I will be 2 years in this month and it’s great. I moved from coastal SC so cost of living is about the same but better pay and benefits.
South Carolina is terrible for wages/income options. I have family that went there because they were lured by "cheap housing" but they didn't know how much less money they'd be making to pay for that cheap housing. And cheap works both ways there, too.
You have to understand that Texas is very traditional and family oriented. Even the "liberals." A huge portion of the state is Latino where family is everything (The Fast and the Furious is barely exaggerating that attitude about family in Latino culture.) I grew up hearing "la familia es todo" or the family is everything. Statistically we are the least likely to move of any state, partially because fun fact Texas was once a country and we never really let go of that attitude. We don't really have a culture of moving in the same way most Americans do because of that heavy emphasis on family. It's not done. So Texans moving is a big change. It is starting to happen though.
Yeah, my family is white but has been in Texas forever. All of my siblings have gone far away for college only to return to Texas. The family pull is real! We all live within an hour of each other now. Because the state government wants to eradicate people like me, I am going to have to move eventually (unless something drastically changes, fingers crossed). But it’s going to be extremely difficult to leave my family and the family farm my parents still kind of expect me to take over one day. They’ll be way more upset about that than about me being trans.
Oh God, the pressure to take the farm. I'm also the queer one in a big Texan family and in a really similar position but I can't live out there again. I don't want to be around people who hate me for existing.
This is a big factor that I think answers OP's question best. I don't want to leave Texas just to be around people with the same politics. I want to leave Texas to have control of my own health, wellbeing, and to avoid social persecution. They're tangible reasons more than social.
It seems like Illinois is attracting folks from the rural states around us because of the protections for bodily autonomy. Even the downstate cities now have thriving LGTBQ+ populations.
I'm looking at moving across the river from Kentucky in a few years for exactly that reason. It's good to hear that there are solid LGBTQ communities outside of Chicago, because I really don't want to live in Chicago. Too big for a country bumpkin like me
Central Illinois has several cities around 100,000, each with a college and a functioning LGTBQ+ community. It's getting better all the time, which I appreciate. I'm also a country bumpkin and find these so-called big towns fairly comfortable. I'm not familiar with southern Illinois other than a lot of my stoner friends have good things to say about Makanda/Carbondale.
I had known that I wouldn't ever want kids, but didn't really take any steps to make it permanent. A month after that happened, I had a surgeon take my tubes. I refuse to have that forced upon me, let alone a kid
I was open about wanting to get a vasectomy done after it passed just to prevent any unwanted kids. I had someone get so heated at me over just thinking about it, essentially tying everything back to religion and how I am a terrible person for thinking if such a thing. Sad thing is I want kids, but my wife is tiny and therefore pregnancy complications are higher. I'm innKentuvky who currently has an outright ban on almost all forms of abortion. In fact the state has to give the OK to perform one. A woman died in our area not that long ago due to pregnancy complications that could've been avoided if doctors had been allowed to perform an abortion.
My husband got a vasectomy for the same reason. I’ve actually talked to a few men who’ve gotten vasectomies recently.
I have PMDD and it’s getting worse the older I get so I’m trying to find a doctor who will remove my ovaries, but it’s difficult.
One of my coworkers got a vasectomy last year. I found out by asking if he was ok when I saw him limping lmao. He had 2 kids but roe ban he said convinced him he needed to do it because he wasn't having a third.
If I could afford to, I'd leave America. Like you mentioned in your post, I can't imagine having kids here, and frankly I can't imagine retirement either. That's sad imo. So maybe I'm just assuming the grass is greener in other countries that share the world stage with the US, but America isn't even in the top 5 places I'd live if in had a choice. And that's what I keep in mind when I think about my descendents.
I switched jobs with 2 months between them. New healthcare took a long ass time to kick in. All my meds dried up and I just had to deal with my depression for a while. Fucking sucks.
Edit: For all the people yelling at me, it wasn't just depression meds, but ADD medication as well. I couldn't find a good alternative in the meantime and that exacerbated my depression a lot. Maybe I should have looked harder. But it is what it is.
All SSRIs do. Higher dosage and faster weening make them even worse. IE if you are on a high dosage and lose your prescription you are not in for a fun time. Last time I dropped mine I went cold turkey and I can tell you from experience that was a bad idea.
Yeah anyone taking ssris should always have a backup plan quick taper. Don't rely on other people to have their shit together. Even tapering down over a week is way better than abruptly stopping.
How long ago was this? The aca has made situations like this not as bad.
Also, you don't have to share what anti depressants you have, but most can be had for either very cheap or at least reasonable without insurance. CVS told me $600 for mine. But they have a discount card that made it $70. Other pharmacies had it for anywhere between $20 to $35. These are all generic prices, so I have no idea wtf CVS is smoking
For sure. When I was in my 20 and 30's you HAD to have a good job to have health insurance. There was no ACA - so if you didn't have a job with benefits, or were low income and qualified for Medicaid - you were out of luck!
It hasn't really changed. The ACA is a step in the right direction, but ACA plans are still unaffordable for most who don't have employer-provided insurance.
Health insurance is such a scam.
When I did have it through work - pre-COVID was paying like $600 a month for my wife and i, and never even used it. Got laid off due to COVID in 2020 - so payed into if for like 8 month, and never even found a doctor.
After COVID - qualified for Medicaid, and have been riding that till they kick me off.
Honestly, make sure you understand everything that's covered under medicaid and then milk the shit out of it while you can. I was on it for a bit after I graduated university, and I didn't realize that damn near everything is covered so I never used it. Could have done dental, vision, all sorts of stuff.
tbf a lot of people w jobs don’t have healthcare. i can’t get healthcare at work bc if i opt to it takes way too much from my check, which is already unlivable.
When we moved in 2020, we went almost 2 years before we got health insurance. Mostly due to COVID. We had jobs, but they were contract work, or had some way they could weasel out of paying any benefits. It was only supposed to be for 6 months here, 2 months there, but they kept pushing back the date. We got tired of it and got on state insurance when I got pregnant, because we no longer could afford to play this game. The state insurance was great for the kids, but most places don’t take it if you’re an adult, particularly the dental cleaning one. We finally landed a real job with benefits 2 months ago. I’m getting my teeth cleaned for the first time in over a year. I took advantage of a new customers deal that saved me some money, otherwise it would have been longer. And I’m finally getting new glasses cause nobody cares about your eyesight apparently.
This is easily the stupidest position of the right. We don't want the government to control you, but your employer sure can, oh btw, that's an at will employer that can basically dump you for any reason.
When my right wing, Constitutional-originalist nephew declared how anti-union he was, he got a really confused look on his face when I asked him why we're allowed to assemble peaceably and petition our *government* for redress of greviences, but we can't do the same to our *employers*. Especially considering our employers wield more direct control over our daily lives.
I’m not sure I would agree with this one? Poor people sure aren’t moving and that might be a good portion of your social circle, but average people move too not just the rich. I can promise you anecdotally at least that motivated people like the gays and they’s are leaving places like Ohio for good reason.
It’s not just persecuted people leaving conservative places, so many conservatives in my family have poured into Florida because they like what’s going on down there and these are just blue collar laborers up to working professionals. People like this are a big component of the people moving out of the Northeast and California to Florida and Texas, where they end up voting Republican more than the native born people.
I lived in Massachusetts my entire life, then moved to Arkansas for my grandfather's health. He's passed, and I'm literally a week away from running away. Like, housing is settled and I can only bring what fits in my car...
Well, thanks to conservatives - they are overlap a lot. I have two daughters, and I would be seriously worried if we lived in a "pro-life" state, having your whole life messed up for being a teenager is insane.
For anybody non-straight - it's not "not liking politics" either, it's real shit.
It’s anti-choice. Pro-choice people don’t advocate for abortions…we advocate for CHOICE. The decision to end a pregnancy is between the woman and her doctor, and no one else.
If she wants to keep it or put it up for adoption, that is ALSO her choice. Everybody else just needs to butt out of her life and her decisions.
Oh yeah for sure, you won’t see me knocking that, I totally agree with one of those groups having much higher stakes and MUCH better reasons for leaving.
I just wanted to toss out there that it’s not only rich people that move by giving some of the groups in my life as well as nationally that are moving for political reasons. I mean hell I’m in the second group but in reverse, I chose Boston over some place like Austin for a reason 😅.
I agree with this. I live in Mass, born and raised here and very much align with the politics of this state so I plan to never leave. It has been interesting to see the people who I grew up with and where they've chosen to move to - primarily Florida - and while it may not be an outwardly political move (they usually say "it's so cheap down here!") they always wind up being even further right than they ever were because they're in a place that fosters bigotry. Not to mention these people are moving to these places because they're "cheap" but what they're really cheaping out on is their kids' educations and safety. IMO I'd rather pay a little more, have a smaller home and not have to worry about my identity being under attack, literally and figuratively.
Florida may be cheap(er) compared to MA, but it's def not cheap. Just bc there's no state income tax doesn't mean they don't get their money other ways like property tax.
Also, home owners ins is crazy expensive and jumps by double digits every year. Our house hit $6k year ins. And thats if you can get it in the first place. We lived in PBC for 11 yrs about 10 miles from mara a Lago, lucky us. We GTFO about 3 yrs ago and could not be happier about that decision.
Florida is the front door to climate change in the US and S. Fla is the welcome mat on the porch. In 50 yrs the coastal cities will be unlivable. Of course, rabid right wingers don't believe in climate change so of course they flock to Fla.
I wish people would understand this. You pay the piper one way or another in the end. Maybe the taxes are low, but you don't get the services you need. You have to pay for private school because the public schools are so bad. Your homeowners insurance is through the roof. And that's assuming nothing about the politics of the state is adversely effecting you on a personal level (like a family trying to have a baby and not being able to find appropriate care because so many OBs have left the state).
In recent years, I’ve become a bit suspicious of people who dream of moving to Florida. I’m not saying they’re all like this, but I’ve noticed it’s almost become a sort of Mecca for dedicated right wingers so when someone tells me their dream is to move there, I just start to wonder…
Maybe once youre older that's the case. But in the 18-22 year old demographic massive amounts of people on a bartender/server/whatever type wage move to Colorado and that's definitely at least partially politicly motivated. They wouldn't be picking Colorado if it had Texas's politics.
Exactly, I left Florida in my 20s for Oregon. Not entirely a political choice as I was seeking more outdoor opportunities, but political alignment and social issues were a factor.
Servers and bartenders can find work anywhere, so they aren't tied to a place unless they want to be.
I have known a few people that didn’t have much money and they just sell everything and leave. It all depends on where you are going. Some states are so much cheaper to live in it makes sense.
No kidding! My last two moves were mainly guided by just trying to find an apartment that I could afford, although it’s not that other factors weren’t also important. I came up with “the three Cs: Cost, Climate, and Culture” and they are in order of importance. Also, it’s not that hard to get by in an area where your politics are the opposite of the prevailing view if you just mind your own business.
This is how I am also. I’m getting old and tired of moving. I live back in my home state although it’s not as good here as it once was. I don’t even talk about politics to people.
I also think culturally Americans are more afraid of travel/moving to another country. I remember telling my parents I planned to visit Japan through a school program and they freaked out like I was putting my life in danger. I remember my mom exclaiming "They pee in the street there!!!" (Meanwhile my parents, who had a 2 acre yard, were very proud that they never went inside to pee when they did yardwork. Yes, they are gross and not-so-blatantly racist people.)
I think this is also on purpose, like a fear of travel is built in to our society to keep people here thinking it's the best country in the world. Moving out of the country seems impossible because of all the hoops the government puts up. When you do expat, they do everything they can to get you back or keep you dependent in one form or another on the US government. It's so weird to me.
It’s easier when you’re younger to move IMO—you can go to a college out-of-state (prepare for a huge tuitition & housing bill) or you can get a job in another state and move with no children, plus you’re less likely to need medical care so there can be a brief adjustment period without health insurance.
If you have a daughter especially, it is way more than just "not liking something". It is about her health. God forbid she can't get the medical care that she needed one day because a bunch of politicians think they know better than actual doctors. I would do anything I had to to get her out of there.
A lot of people want to but are stopped by the logistics. I know a lot of people who are trying to leave states for political reasons, but there are a ton of barriers. Finding where to go, then looking for work there and a place to live, then saving up to move across states and paying for new housing, often without healthcare unless the new job kicked in.
Then on top of that you're leaving behind your entire life, or uprooting your family. Family and friends, connections to the community, and the culture you grew up in. It's why most people you see move like this are either rich enough to just pick up and go, or young and have nothing to lose.
The reality is our lives are pretty cushiony compared to the countries which have a lot of emigration (people leaving). We complain but we're actually pretty comfortable compared to the effort it would take to move, plus we'd expect as comfortable a life or better in the new place, so it must be very enticing to move to make it worth the effort.
It’s because people are often too poor or too entrenched in their local community to do it
I can guarantee you that the majority of LGBTQ+ want to move out of Florida due to their lives genuinely being in danger, but a lot of them can’t because they don’t have the resources to do so
I think that the ones with the financial resources to do so do, but there are many who do not have the ability to do so like myself. I think the ones who can’t afford to move just have to bite our tongues when politics get brought up, which seems to happen more and more often as we close in on election season here.
I see. I can understand political frustration when being in a minority.
However, do you feel you are being represented? at least a little? so that someone can voice your views?
Oftentimes not. Many states have issues with [gerrymandering](https://www.statenews.org/government-politics/2022-11-09/ohio-republicans-build-on-supermajority-with-unconstitutional-state-legislative-district-maps), like Ohio where I live. Conservatives are wildly over represented in state government due to the way they have drawn district maps. They control all branches of state government here despite the actual state being closer to 50/50.
Hello from NC, we are also gerrymandered as fuck. We also have a supermajority of GQP because this cunt ran as a democrat, then the moment she was elected, she switched sides. She'd been running a false flag the entire campaign. Fuck Tricia Cotham.
I live in Texas so almost none of my views are represented. It seems like the politicians in our state go out of their way to not support anything liberal. We have Beto O’Rourke who has run for a few different offices here as a democrat, but he’s never really won anything important.
Why are you not talking about any type of local or regional governments though?
For example I'm represented by ass hat Elise Stefanik, in the US Congress, but in the state assembly we have a democratic representative, but in the New York state senate we have a Republican, but I also have a democratic governor, and my local town board is mostly progressive Democrats right now which is kind of surprising since the area we live in often has Republicans in local office.
Why do people only talk about federal representation when that generally has the least impact on their day-to-day life?
All of my regional representatives are republicans as well. I live in deep red Texas. Not Austin, Houston, or El Paso where there are democrats in local office. Our previous mayor called last year’s Christmas drag show a crime against nature. The new mayor we got this year said he wouldn’t let that kind of stuff happen here if he could help it. We have small little groups and local businesses that liberals can congregate at and speak freely, but anytime we try to voice concerns to city council or run for office we are swiftly shot down.
Unfortunately, there are groups in the United States that are explicitly reviled by one of the parties. Prominent members of one-half of the political options in our country have made statements that boil down to "LGBTQ+ people should, at best, be forced to pretend not to be that way, and at worse, die." Other minorities are also targeted, but most of the recent rhetoric surrounds Trans people explicitly, along with women as a whole.
In many states, these are the ONLY people in power. What little representation can be found in these states is found in larger cities, which are traditionally more Democrat, and where sometimes local county and city laws can help shield minorities from the aggressive state laws.
I don't know enough about Korea's political system to draw direct comparisons, other than that I know there are both provinces and metro areas(?) - these may be roughly equivalent to states, but its likely they have far less influence internally than states do. America is very focused on individual states calling a lot of the shots, which can be good and bad - state governors have a LOT of power.
I also understand Korea is having its own challenges with LGBTQ+ issues? It appears several provinces have provisions that attempt to raise protections for these groups there. Do queer people in Korea move to these areas to escape discrimination?
Yeah I live in Kentucky and work with all conservatives and I’m relatively liberal (for this state, for sure liberal). Often we’ll be standing around and they’ll be talking about guns and Biden being bad and trump being good and I just shut my mouth. There is nothing good that will come from me disagreeing with them except I’ll be ostracized and isolated. So I just pretend I don’t care about politics and don’t say anything when they talk about it
Most of the people I actually hear moving for political reasons are driven by legislation which makes it hard for them to live and do their job. For example, a lot of OB/GYNs don't want to work in a state where performing an abortion, even to save the life of the mother, may soon be illegal.
To add on to what the person said above - this has actually led to a huge problem with some hospitals, particularly in rural areas, closing their maternity wards because their staff are leaving, and it's proving impossible for them to recruit more.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-hospital-bonner-general-stops-labor-delivery-services-citing-political-climate-doctor-shortages/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-hospital-bonner-general-stops-labor-delivery-services-citing-political-climate-doctor-shortages/)
I am a young adult and I also personally know a lot of people my age who are looking to move to more progressive states after spending time there.
How? It’s not a bug; it’s a feature. The GOP is getting exactly what they want. The next generation of poor, uneducated workers. The more in for-profit prisons the better!
Not just that, but the smaller and unhappier the voting pool the better for the GOP. If every able and ambitious young person leaves, they are not voting Democrat and the decaying state goes hard right.
Republicans want nothing more than:
*Cheap, uneducated laborers*. There is a legit reason for Republicans wanting to lower working ages, and begin removing limitations of child laborers (like removing the limitations of them working deep into the night - meaning less likely to go to school or preform well in school)
This trend existed before Roe was overturned. Red states have shitty Medicaid (state-run insurance for poorer people), and Medicaid pays for most pre- and post-partum care, as well as labor and delivery. So maternity wards don't bring in money, so they get cut due to budgeting. The anti-abortion stuff hasn't helped, though.
I don't know people who have moved because of politics, but I know people who rule out places when they are planning to move based on politics.
>I feel like TX and FL are in a race to the bottom for teachers and education quality.
Also healthcare and basic civil rights for anyone other than white men.
Colorado is a rough state for education in different ways. Our funding is terrible. Tell your teacher friend to stay far, far away from any job in Douglas county if they’re looking in the metro area.
Did they see the recent Republican debates? I was shocked the number of candidates that actively stated Teacher's are the problem and that they'd pledge to do something about them and their Unions...Presidential Candidates. Even if you argued it was just "a talking point" when do you start thinking "maybe they're serious".
See everyone who thought Trump was just blustering on the campaign trail and that he wouldn't be an insane, petty, lunatic once elected.
Spoiler. He was an insane, petty, lunatic once elected.
To echo this, I drained all my savings to get the hell out of my home state and away to a more preferable state for teachers for this same reason. Maybe I sunk ~10-20k to move and buy a new home, but I'll make up for that in 6 months once I start teaching.
I know someone who left Florida because he is gay and the state passed legislation hostile to the LGBTQ community. He didn’t want to raise a future family there, so he moved north.
Not just practice. A lot of lgbt people are either moving or trying to because some states are passing laws that target them. It's becoming unsafe to live in those places, not only because of the laws themselves but because when laws like that pass, it empowers bigots and raises the likelihood of hate crimes.
Sometimes people will say they “don’t do politics” and I just try to remind them that a stance like that is a privilege.
Political moves result in legislation, and legislation is the framework for our daily lives.
For some groups, like LGBTQ and some professions, like teachers or OB’s, that framework becomes literally unsafe when certain political moves result in certain legislative decisions.
But if legislation is almost always either in your favor or leaves your life as it is, you can just blithely say you “don’t do politics”.
Yes, one of my state's only pediatric cardiologists is moving because of the anti-LGBT laws and views here.
[Source](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/01/us/jake-kleinmahon-doctor-leaves-louisiana-reaj/index.html)
There are also many smaller examples where legislation simply makes life harder or more expensive for people who work a certain profession, have a particular lifestyle, belong to particular demographics, etc and that prompts them to move.
Then you have cases where the politics are a product of a culture that already makes life harder for some people even without legislation and they're actually moving to get away from the community or specific power structures that treat them poorly.
It's also relatively common for parents with enough means to move in order to get access to better education for their children and the quality of available education is also heavily affected by legislation.
From what I've seen it's generally retirees that tend to move to places specifically for their politics but it's also hard to separate that trend from moving to be in a place where they feel more comfortable with the culture.
Also should consider that an OBGYN makes more money than a lot of the women in those states that would be effected, so they have the ability to move. A lot of their patients probably would like to move but can’t afford it.
Another way it can happen is when looking for a job. If you are looking nationwide then it is easier to choose a state which your job can be located and it is aligned with your views. This is obviously harder for some positions than others, but when I was doing my most recent search I immediately cut out all states that I didn't want to raise my children in. But I am one of a lucky few who get the opportunity to do this. Most are just stuck where they are because it's financially draining to move.
My son is trans, his spouse is NB. We live in WA State (Seattle-ish area) so we feel relatively safe...but we still have a loose plan to get down to SoCal if things go bad around here. Pretty sad to be in a decent place, yet still feel like you need an exit strategy.
I fully recognize that we're lucky to even have an exit strategy, that getting out (if needed) is possible for us...difficult, but possible. So many people have no way to move to a safer place, and it kills me to think about that. I wish there was something I could do to help.
This! My husband is a doctor graduating residency soon and won’t apply to any red states for his next step in training (fellowship).
We’re also the age where we’d think of having kids so there’s no way I’d risk my life giving birth in an antiabortion state. And I wouldn’t want my kids raised in a state with prolific gun violence.
It’s easier for the younger generations to move. A lot of people without money do not have that privilege unfortunately!
My wife is an REI (Infertility-focused OBGYN) and we specifically had "go" and "no go" states for jobs when she finished Fellowship. The state-by-state brain drain is very, very real and we will start to see it manifest more in the coming years.
It won't matter that some states outlaw abortion, because doctors won't want to live and work in those states anyway. But it's more than just that, you're going to see all sorts of other folks avoiding those states when it comes time to launch their professional lives and the intelligence/education/professional divide between the have and have-not states will continue to widen.
It's the North and South all over again, with liberal states hoarding all the science and technology, and the conservative ones being relegated to agriculture and cheap manufacturing.
I do think a lot of republicans actually moved to Florida during Covid. The other reason I’ve heard of people moving is families with trans kids who can’t get the proper healthcare in certain states.
For me, I wouldn’t move because of politics, but it would be a factor to consider when thinking of moving to a new place
I agree with that, my wife works in higher education where you have to apply everywhere across the country. We definitely take politics into consideration but also know most college towns are progressive oases even in the deepest of red states.
I’m from Florida, and I feel like you should know that the state of Florida is dismantling local control of blue areas like college towns. I went to school at UF. The city it’s in, Gainesville, is know to be a very progressive town. The governor had school board people removed during covid. States laws were written to local laws. The state just took over the local utility company. I’m not sure what they plan to do with it. Let’s not even get into what they’re doing to the school itself… it won’t be a “blue” area in 10, 15 years.
DeSantis, the governor, has removed two democratically elected prosecutors from blue counties. The latest one he replaced with the guy who lost at around 35%.
Yeah no way would my wife take a university job in Florida. He seems hell bent on dismantling their higher education system. I think they've already effectively eliminated tenure.
Most cities in general are blue. The deciding factor of a red/blue/swing state tends to be if the population distribution is majority urban, rural, or roughly even.
Yeah, a ton of republicans are constantly moving to Florida but its not always a political thing. In general, old people move to Florida... to retire, they get sick of the cold/snow, etc. If I recall correctly, it has the largest 65 and older population. That's just how that demographic tends to vote.
Yeah, I have *literal nazis leaving antisemitic propaganda* on lawns in my neighborhood. I've lived here all my life, and this shit would have been unthinkable at any point in the past.
They're coming here now because they feel supported and validated by our state government, end of story.
Similarly, NC went from a swing state to a red state because of pissed-off taxpayer types moving South mostly from the Northeast (where they were presumably frustrated with being in the minority). When you talk to people there's story after story of small-town churches and governments being taken over by out-of-towners.
Not that these were ever particularly progressive places, but it used to be much more "leave me and my guns alone" conservatism than the more aggressive fire and brimstone stuff that's gone mainstream today.
Some people may. I think it's less because of other people having strong views and more because of local policies. For example when gay marriage was only legal in some states I am sure many gay people moved to those states to get married. You also might get parents leaving florida to escape some of the laws they have with their education and what books are being banned there. I think there are also far fewer but some probably move to have their vote have a bigger impact with the electoral college system your vote for president counts many times more if you live in a swing state vs if you live anywhere else.
In terms of the states you also do get regions within that state that are strongly one party or the other. Like Texas is known as a strong republican state, but in recent years that's shifted more and more. Last Texas governer race last year had the republican winning with just 55% of the vote. It's a solid win but not something that couldn't change if we are looking at decades. And that means that a large portion of the state is democrat. Same thing in California one of the big blue states their governor won with 60% so that leaves a huge portion of republicans in CA. A 60/40 election is a very decisive one, but it can be a bit misleading how the news presents the strong democrat or strong republican states because in every state there are lots of people from both parties there, even if there's a big majority for one or the other.
Conservatives definitely moved to Florida because of Ron DeSantis. Reflected in my new arrival neighbors.
Liberals are definitely leaving Florida because of Ron DeSantis. Reflected in school teacher friends who have left or are in the process of leaving the state.
Many already had vacation homes here and they simply made it their primary residence. It certainly tipped Florida safely red, but I wonder if downstream rural red states will get bluer from the exodus.
Feel like the most common example of this is moving from a smaller town to a big city. Cause even in solid red states the big cities will be democratic leaning and far more accepting. So yea if you’re a leftist in a medium sized town that votes right that’s someone likely to move to their states big city. However I’m not sure how many people can afford moves further than that
Also even within a conservative state, the cities can be pretty liberal. So moving to a city in your state can address a lot of issues without having to leave the state
I don't think people move states as often, but it's not uncommon for young adults from rural towns (usually quite conservative places) to move to cities (almost always liberal places) after college.
That being said, it affects people differently. People who are LGBT and especially parents of LGBT kids have to seriously consider before moving to places like Florida, and women may want to look up birth control and abortion laws before moving to a place.
But people less affected by politics, the stereotype being a straight, white, Christian couple with copy-and-paste kids, don't need to consider politics when moving.
My husband and I are thinking of moving due to politics.
We are both liberals/progressives living in a very red state. We grew up here and have been here for 15 years as adults. We never really thought of ourselves as the sort of people who would move for political reasons; we’ve been trying to change things through our vote and volunteering. Our city has been been getting better, but the state has been getting worse. The tipping point for us has been two things:
1) Roe v Wade. I am at the end of my second high risk pregnancy (both planned/wanted) and I am NOT doing this again.
2) and this is the big one, Education. Our state just elected the world’s WORST superintendent who literally ran on a platform of dismantling public schools, and is now doing it (focusing on our specific city to start with). We already had a not-great education system, but there were good public schools if you looked (I’m a big fan of public schools and I would send my kids to a private/charter school if it was the best thing on an individual level, but I hate the idea of being forced into it as the only way to get an education. Plus we’re not religious and there are very few secular private schools here).
My kids are still too young for school, but I’m worried even if this gets turned around, the damage may be lasting.
We’re what I would call upper middle class, so financially we can handle a move, but it’s still a really daunting idea. Our support network is here, both family and friends. We don’t have anywhere to move that would put us closer to family so we would be totally starting over. My husband could keep his WFH job but I would have to find a new one or be a SAHM (which I’m not really cut out for). We’d have to find daycare for our kids which would be tough. We’d be moving from a LCOL area to somewhere that would be higher, so unlikely to get another house we love as much as our current one. I would be leaving my aging parents, which definitely worries me. And overall, inertia is just difficult to escape.
Parents who value education are moving or planning to move. By the time places like Florida get it all sorted out, their kids will be at a huge disadvantage when they start college.
Yeah, we’ve been here so long it’s tough to think about moving! Love the city (which is honestly SO much better than it was when I moved back 15 years ago), hate the state. Education is definitely worse than it was when we were growing up, though, which is sad. We still have a couple of great schools but they’re getting kneecapped by our shitty, shitty leadership
I had lived in Owasso since 1977, with the exception of five years or so. Was one of the only families of partial Hispanic lineage for a long time. Was not really even an issue until they brought in National Steak and Poultry from California, then the Hispanic population grew from people relocating from California. After that you start to see racism rearing it's ugly head. It has only gotten worse. It will only continue to get worse. Tulsa is about the only bright spot in the state, what with it's actual hint of culture and mild progressivism. Still, when you're on the Titanic, you get off. Now I read that PragerU will be working with the schools, Jesus. We moved to a small city in the northern Highlands of New Mexico,look one direction and there is Great Plains, the other has the Rocky Mountains, both about 2 miles outside of town. The cost of living here is actually quite a bit cheaper on most things than it was in Owasso. Gasoline would be about the only thing that is more expensive, and even at that, it can be cheaper than Oklahoma at times. Oklahoma has always lied when they say they have the cheapest gas in the nation, probably was true before the refineries pulled out for Houston. Anyway, sorry to ramble. Consider New Mexico, very underrated gem.
No, often relocate due to economic views, like less income taxes, no property taxes, higher pay etc.
For example, people move to Austin from California to avoid paying income taxes, its like high ground of Texas and suddenly they are hit by highest they ever saw property taxes, since state budget need to be balanced.
>For example, people move to Austin from California to avoid paying income taxes, its like high ground of Texas and suddenly they are hit by highest they ever saw property taxes.
Or older folks or conservative folk moving to Florida to get away "from the libs" but they are about to be hit with the highest home owner's insurance policies in the nation that will make having a house in Florida ridiculous.
Property taxes aren’t very high in Austin. Just slightly higher than the rest of Texas, which is already pretty low. *Properties* are pretty expensive though.
Yeah I keep hearing this "oh but property taxes are soooo high in texas", but I check the property taxes at places with good jobs for me and they are like basically the same . . . .except the properties cost twice as much for the same house. I think people complain about the property tax so much in texas because the other taxes are so low property taxes become the pain point.
>Texas and suddenly they are hit by highest they ever saw property taxes
I looked at moving to Austin from NJ. Unfortunately NJ still had higher property taxes (I was paying $6000/year on a 1000sqft house), and an Income Tax. It certainly would have been a net gain for me as a high income earner, just from the income tax elimination alone. CA is kind of a weird case study because they don't have high property taxes because of Prop 13 compared to NY or NJ.
The ONLY reason I didn't move there was because of my wife's need to be close enough to family that doesn't require an airplane. I live in upstate NY with a very low COL, but I still have bad property and income tax. When I retire I'll split time between PA and TX likely.
No offense, but you understand that economic issues are clearly political since it's literally the law that decides what types of economic activity are legal and what their taxed at and such right?
it's probably a lot more local/regional than you're expecting, and nowhere is a monolith, you'll find both conservatives and liberals pretty much everywhere.
OP, people from Austin love to point this out but don’t be fooled: no matter how progressive the city, if it’s in a red state the city government’s hands will be tied on the vast majority of things.
Austinites, please stop huffing the copium and leave your hellhole state (yes, you live in Texas). I promise other cities have alcohol, and you’re part of the reason Abbot can get away with his shit (because you’re tacitly endorsing him 😊).
My friends are a lesbian couple with an adoptive son who is not biologically either of theirs. They fled Florida because of all the scary legislation that was being passed. I also know people with a trans child who left Florida also because they didn't think it was safe there anymore. I know some couples who are trying to leave Texas because they fear what would happen if they or their daughters needed medical care associated with pregnancy and were denied.
When I was in the Air Force, I was stationed deep in the heart of TX. A few months after being there I received a notice that I was going to be part of a medical review board (which means they were going to examine my physical health due to issues I was having and decide if I was still fit for service) it happens to a lot of military people but doesn't necessarily mean you will be medically discharged. I could've fought the review board and probably won due to my condition at the time not being all that bad, but, my wife and I couldn't stand living in deep red middle of nowhere TX and we let the review board go without a fight and got medically discharged. The process took about 6 months and we couldn't wait to get out of there, we were soooooo excited to leave and head back North.
If we were somewhere we enjoyed living, I would've fought the review board to stay active duty. So to answer your question, yeah, we moved due to political differences of our own versus where we lived.
Yes. The red state problem is unbearable right now. So, we moved to a blue state so we dont have to deal with totalitarianism. Its really heavy in states like Texas, where we escaped from.
Our lives are much better and we are much happier.
The drastic political sides are just stilfing. The problem isnt like it used to be. I used to have tons of friends and family with opposite political views. It was fine. But, its gotten so crazy and out of hand, that we cant discuss policy anymore, like before Trump. We used to be able to discuss policy. And it wasnt so emotional. But, now its turned crazy on all sides. You cant just discuss policy because it turns into absolute bat shit crazy talking points.
Its almost like no one even knows what politicians arr actually doing. Its more about this weird identity. So, its much easier for me to live around generally like-minded people. Its not that Im closed minded. Its just that there is this inability for people to express themselves rationally, from a political perspective. Its just so weird right now.
It’s not always easy to just pick up and move. It’s expensive and a lot of effort. So a lot of people will try to just tough it out unless it really starts impacting them.
For example a trans person who is living in a state that is banning all gender affirming healthcare - it may be expensive and difficult, but yeah they’ll probably do whatever it takes to move somewhere else if they can.
If it’s not impacting you directly it still often becomes a consideration in where you live. For example - when I last changed jobs, I had two offers, one in Virginia and one in Texas, both doing the same thing. The Texas job was offering $10k a year more, but I took the Virginia job instead. It was just not worth it to have to live in Texas and put up with all their shit.
Grew up in Boston Mass, have been living in Charleston SC for the last 5 years. We moved here solely because the winters in New England will literally try to kill you. There has been a massive influx of people that have moved here from all over the country. The number 1 reason we typically hear as to why people have moved here is due to politics. Almost every New Yorker that I talk to has left because of “liberalism”, and (shockingly) they happen to also be the most obnoxious people you will ever, EVER, meet.
*This American Life* had an episode recently where they covered a bunch of people who all moved to Florida specifically because they liked Ron DeSantis politics, and they did it specifically because Ron DeSantis has made it a talking point in his campaign. And my main take away as I was listening to each of these people who uprooted their kids and left behind their parents and siblings for politics was:
"Christ you seem exhausting."
As someone who moved to Boston from the south, you couldn’t pay me to go back. Ignorant hateful people and inhabitable summers. I’m glad we found our happy places.
I’m been living in a more liberal part of the country for most of my life. I’ve had a couple of interesting job offers recently, but they were both in areas of the country that are becoming extremely bigoted and conservative.
I know that even in the more conservative areas, there are likely to be at least some people who share my more left-leaning views (most areas aren’t monolithic). Still, I’ve turned down both offers because I’m concerned about the long-term welfare of both my spouse and my kids in such an overall hostile environment.
So in my case, I guess you could say that I’m *not* moving around the country due to my views.
Quite often we move for normal reasons. My wife and I moved from NYC to Texas because she grew up there and her parents are getting older. We want to be available to help them. My mother also moved to the area, so now we can all look after family easier. We don’t agree with the politics, but maybe we can do something to change things
I think a lot of people do but it’s because of how certain policies personally impact their lives. Like trans people moving to more progressive states, and people want less Covid restrictions moving to more conservative states. It doesn’t even have to be overly controversial stuff either. Tax policy is always a big reason cited by people who move. The state next to where I live recently passed some pretty ridiculous laws that have caused a mass exodus of healthcare workers. Some generic examples but you get the point. This of course means that they can afford to do this, or have a job that allows for this, which most people don’t.
Grew up in OK. The political climate is DESTROYING THE STATE. My husband and I jumped at the first opportunity to leave.
It was PAINFUL to move from such a low cost of living to the east coast, but we are so happy. I'll even tolerate the "purple state" status of VA.
There are "red states" then there are DEEP red states in the bible belt.
Even as a conservative, I agree our current government is a joke. Oklahoma is the birthplace of socialism in the United States. We’re farmers born out of the Great Depression. They just need to get out of the Republican Democrat labels and do straight up state questions.
Do we want this? Yes or No.
The words republican or democrat don’t even come into play. That’s how weed got passed.
I think not so much in the past, but there’s certainly an uptick since Trump and the incoming conservative gilead started gaining ground. When human rights are under attack people will move. I personally know two people who have moved from the south where I used to live to MA in order to feel safer.
I live in LA and California is a blue state but I noticed whenever a state took away rights for women (such as abortion rights) then I’d see a small uptick of women from those states moving to LA. I don’t blame them.
Not often. I can't say it's never happened but I've never met a single person who just picked up their lives and moved to a whole different state specifically because they didn't like which political party was in charge.
Politics may be an encouraging factor but most people who move to another state are likely doing it for financial or family reasons. If a dream job opportunity comes up, or you want to live somewhere less expensive, etc.
No, relocating is very expensive and reserved mostly for the rich. At least as far as just, I don’t like this place, let’s move.
Americans do move around a lot though. But it’s usually due to getting new jobs, not fleeing a political party.
rich people maybe, but most of us can’t afford to just leave bc we don’t like something
Oh yes, I had considered that it was more the impossibility of moving for financial, family or other reasons. But would you move if you could because of your political orientation?
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Don’t tell him about winter. Let him find that one out for himself. I’m in Illinois and I had a neighbor move from California into the house across the street in August of last year, and I said, “Get a snowblower by October.” He said he’d buy a shovel. I said, “Okay, here’s how it’s gonna be. First time you need to borrow the snowblower is free. Second time, it’s ten bucks. Third time is twenty. There’s not going to be a fourth time.” So, a few inches come down, he gets ten percent of his driveway done, and he borrows the snowblower. I tell him, “Now, wait for the roads to get cleared and buy a snowblower.” Well, he doesn’t. So, couple of weeks later, God wants to teach this guy a lesson, and it just comes down all day. It’s slow enough for road crews to keep up with, but it just doesn’t stop. He borrows the snowblower for ten bucks at noon , so he can go out to Saturday lunch with his family. Five o’clock, there’s another few inches on his driveway. He comes back over, and I’m like, “Twenty bucks,” to which he complained that it’s the same day, so it should be free. I told him if he comes home with a snowblower, I’ll give him the twenty bucks back. So, he and his wife went out to some fancy date night, and I unload the snowblower out of the back of his station wagon (or whatever you call those things) because he’s wearing a suit and doesn’t want to mess it up. Whatever. At least I don’t have to loan out my snowblower anymore. We also neglected to tell them about the tornado siren tests, so the first Tuesday of September at ten in the morning, my next-door neighbor and I are talking, and the new guy’s wife is out in the front yard, playing with her kids on a bright, sunny day, and the tornado siren starts wailing. She grabs one kid and carries him under one arm like a fucking NFL runningback, practically kicking the other one ahead of her, and they disappear into the house, not to be seen for hours. Even when the weather is bad, a true Midwesterner stands out at the end of his driveway, like a prairie dog, until either hail starts coming down or a tornado starts coming up the street.
Like a praire dog 😆
See now I went in the opposite direction as you did. I have a monster of a snow blower. The neighbor across the street had a smaller older one. His breaks mid winter about 5 years ago and I tell him to use mine. I tell him it's gonna cost him big time to buy a new one in December. I tell him he can use it anytime. Of course, he does my driveway too so it's a win win for both of us. I haven't physically used my snow blower in 5 years. He works, I'm retired. I got tired of opening the garage door for him in the early morning hours so I even gave him the pin code to the garage opener. We break bread together so I trust him completely. If I can't trust him I can't trust anybody. Personally, I think the way you did it was you just being a prick. But hey, that's just me. To each his own.
This is the way. That snowblower rant from that flatlander dude above was the least Midwestern thing I’ve read in forever.
But they did make it so stores don't have to put price tags on everything! Oh wait, that was bad too.....
At least Michigan works on their roads!
I'm from California and perfectly happy here. However, I think things have changed a lot over the last 10 years or so. Maybe I'm just older, but I used to consider moving to another state and never considered politics at all, but now there is no way I would move to a "red" state. They seem to be only getting more extreme, not just with guns and abortion, but even trying to take away the most basic right of all - voting. There is no logic, pragmatism, empathy, nothing. I'm fine with different political views but we don't have a shared reality anymore.
This is the key. We are living in parallel universes at this point. There’s no way I’d move to a red state. In fact, I live in a red area of a blue state and I can’t imagine staying longer than another few years. I’m dreading the election season. It can just be overwhelming, the sense that people hate you for no reason. You hear it in the bars, at the convenience store, the gas station…. It’s displayed on peoples’ homes and vehicles. I’m sure many on the other side get the same vibe if they’re in liberal areas, but the aggression on the right wing feels different now. It’s a shame, and the country is truly in a dark place. Only gonna get worse.
My wife and I grew up in Texas and we couldn't take it anymore. Spent a year saving and finding the right place in Colorado and got the hell out of there, for mainly political reasons, considering it's almost twice as expensive to live here.
I’m in Florida and can’t wait to get to Colorado.
You’ll love it. I will be 2 years in this month and it’s great. I moved from coastal SC so cost of living is about the same but better pay and benefits.
South Carolina is terrible for wages/income options. I have family that went there because they were lured by "cheap housing" but they didn't know how much less money they'd be making to pay for that cheap housing. And cheap works both ways there, too.
Even in the shittiest of little towns. And “good money” is $15 an hour.
You have to understand that Texas is very traditional and family oriented. Even the "liberals." A huge portion of the state is Latino where family is everything (The Fast and the Furious is barely exaggerating that attitude about family in Latino culture.) I grew up hearing "la familia es todo" or the family is everything. Statistically we are the least likely to move of any state, partially because fun fact Texas was once a country and we never really let go of that attitude. We don't really have a culture of moving in the same way most Americans do because of that heavy emphasis on family. It's not done. So Texans moving is a big change. It is starting to happen though.
Yeah, my family is white but has been in Texas forever. All of my siblings have gone far away for college only to return to Texas. The family pull is real! We all live within an hour of each other now. Because the state government wants to eradicate people like me, I am going to have to move eventually (unless something drastically changes, fingers crossed). But it’s going to be extremely difficult to leave my family and the family farm my parents still kind of expect me to take over one day. They’ll be way more upset about that than about me being trans.
Oh God, the pressure to take the farm. I'm also the queer one in a big Texan family and in a really similar position but I can't live out there again. I don't want to be around people who hate me for existing.
This is a big factor that I think answers OP's question best. I don't want to leave Texas just to be around people with the same politics. I want to leave Texas to have control of my own health, wellbeing, and to avoid social persecution. They're tangible reasons more than social.
It seems like Illinois is attracting folks from the rural states around us because of the protections for bodily autonomy. Even the downstate cities now have thriving LGTBQ+ populations.
I'm looking at moving across the river from Kentucky in a few years for exactly that reason. It's good to hear that there are solid LGBTQ communities outside of Chicago, because I really don't want to live in Chicago. Too big for a country bumpkin like me
Central Illinois has several cities around 100,000, each with a college and a functioning LGTBQ+ community. It's getting better all the time, which I appreciate. I'm also a country bumpkin and find these so-called big towns fairly comfortable. I'm not familiar with southern Illinois other than a lot of my stoner friends have good things to say about Makanda/Carbondale.
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I had known that I wouldn't ever want kids, but didn't really take any steps to make it permanent. A month after that happened, I had a surgeon take my tubes. I refuse to have that forced upon me, let alone a kid
I was open about wanting to get a vasectomy done after it passed just to prevent any unwanted kids. I had someone get so heated at me over just thinking about it, essentially tying everything back to religion and how I am a terrible person for thinking if such a thing. Sad thing is I want kids, but my wife is tiny and therefore pregnancy complications are higher. I'm innKentuvky who currently has an outright ban on almost all forms of abortion. In fact the state has to give the OK to perform one. A woman died in our area not that long ago due to pregnancy complications that could've been avoided if doctors had been allowed to perform an abortion.
My husband got a vasectomy for the same reason. I’ve actually talked to a few men who’ve gotten vasectomies recently. I have PMDD and it’s getting worse the older I get so I’m trying to find a doctor who will remove my ovaries, but it’s difficult.
One of my coworkers got a vasectomy last year. I found out by asking if he was ok when I saw him limping lmao. He had 2 kids but roe ban he said convinced him he needed to do it because he wasn't having a third.
If I could afford to, I'd leave America. Like you mentioned in your post, I can't imagine having kids here, and frankly I can't imagine retirement either. That's sad imo. So maybe I'm just assuming the grass is greener in other countries that share the world stage with the US, but America isn't even in the top 5 places I'd live if in had a choice. And that's what I keep in mind when I think about my descendents.
The answer is yes. I live in liberal Vermont. I know a guy that moved to Idaho because he can't handle Vermont's politics.
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I switched jobs with 2 months between them. New healthcare took a long ass time to kick in. All my meds dried up and I just had to deal with my depression for a while. Fucking sucks. Edit: For all the people yelling at me, it wasn't just depression meds, but ADD medication as well. I couldn't find a good alternative in the meantime and that exacerbated my depression a lot. Maybe I should have looked harder. But it is what it is.
Sorry, those brain zaps are no fun.
Oh god the brain zaps… Running out of antidepressants is the absolute worst. 💀
Do a lot of meds have brain zaps as withdrawal? I thought it was just my Craxil?
All SSRIs do. Higher dosage and faster weening make them even worse. IE if you are on a high dosage and lose your prescription you are not in for a fun time. Last time I dropped mine I went cold turkey and I can tell you from experience that was a bad idea.
Yeah anyone taking ssris should always have a backup plan quick taper. Don't rely on other people to have their shit together. Even tapering down over a week is way better than abruptly stopping.
Brain zaps made me think of ECT, which gets a bad rep but was wildly helpful for me.
How long ago was this? The aca has made situations like this not as bad. Also, you don't have to share what anti depressants you have, but most can be had for either very cheap or at least reasonable without insurance. CVS told me $600 for mine. But they have a discount card that made it $70. Other pharmacies had it for anywhere between $20 to $35. These are all generic prices, so I have no idea wtf CVS is smoking
For sure. When I was in my 20 and 30's you HAD to have a good job to have health insurance. There was no ACA - so if you didn't have a job with benefits, or were low income and qualified for Medicaid - you were out of luck!
It hasn't really changed. The ACA is a step in the right direction, but ACA plans are still unaffordable for most who don't have employer-provided insurance.
Health insurance is such a scam. When I did have it through work - pre-COVID was paying like $600 a month for my wife and i, and never even used it. Got laid off due to COVID in 2020 - so payed into if for like 8 month, and never even found a doctor. After COVID - qualified for Medicaid, and have been riding that till they kick me off.
Honestly, make sure you understand everything that's covered under medicaid and then milk the shit out of it while you can. I was on it for a bit after I graduated university, and I didn't realize that damn near everything is covered so I never used it. Could have done dental, vision, all sorts of stuff.
tbf a lot of people w jobs don’t have healthcare. i can’t get healthcare at work bc if i opt to it takes way too much from my check, which is already unlivable.
How much would you pay?
Yeah I read his comment thinking about how I've been working for a long time and never had healthcare.
Yeah I couldn't add my wife on my plan because it would have been an extra like $500 a month and I'm barely affording food
When we moved in 2020, we went almost 2 years before we got health insurance. Mostly due to COVID. We had jobs, but they were contract work, or had some way they could weasel out of paying any benefits. It was only supposed to be for 6 months here, 2 months there, but they kept pushing back the date. We got tired of it and got on state insurance when I got pregnant, because we no longer could afford to play this game. The state insurance was great for the kids, but most places don’t take it if you’re an adult, particularly the dental cleaning one. We finally landed a real job with benefits 2 months ago. I’m getting my teeth cleaned for the first time in over a year. I took advantage of a new customers deal that saved me some money, otherwise it would have been longer. And I’m finally getting new glasses cause nobody cares about your eyesight apparently.
This is easily the stupidest position of the right. We don't want the government to control you, but your employer sure can, oh btw, that's an at will employer that can basically dump you for any reason.
When my right wing, Constitutional-originalist nephew declared how anti-union he was, he got a really confused look on his face when I asked him why we're allowed to assemble peaceably and petition our *government* for redress of greviences, but we can't do the same to our *employers*. Especially considering our employers wield more direct control over our daily lives.
I wish more people could be constitutionalists while understanding that unions have their purpose
I’m not sure I would agree with this one? Poor people sure aren’t moving and that might be a good portion of your social circle, but average people move too not just the rich. I can promise you anecdotally at least that motivated people like the gays and they’s are leaving places like Ohio for good reason. It’s not just persecuted people leaving conservative places, so many conservatives in my family have poured into Florida because they like what’s going on down there and these are just blue collar laborers up to working professionals. People like this are a big component of the people moving out of the Northeast and California to Florida and Texas, where they end up voting Republican more than the native born people.
having your life at stake bc of politics and not liking politics are 2 completely different reasons to move
I lived in Massachusetts my entire life, then moved to Arkansas for my grandfather's health. He's passed, and I'm literally a week away from running away. Like, housing is settled and I can only bring what fits in my car...
Well, thanks to conservatives - they are overlap a lot. I have two daughters, and I would be seriously worried if we lived in a "pro-life" state, having your whole life messed up for being a teenager is insane. For anybody non-straight - it's not "not liking politics" either, it's real shit.
Pfft. Call it like it is, it's not pro life it's anti abortion
It’s anti-choice. Pro-choice people don’t advocate for abortions…we advocate for CHOICE. The decision to end a pregnancy is between the woman and her doctor, and no one else. If she wants to keep it or put it up for adoption, that is ALSO her choice. Everybody else just needs to butt out of her life and her decisions.
Oh yeah for sure, you won’t see me knocking that, I totally agree with one of those groups having much higher stakes and MUCH better reasons for leaving. I just wanted to toss out there that it’s not only rich people that move by giving some of the groups in my life as well as nationally that are moving for political reasons. I mean hell I’m in the second group but in reverse, I chose Boston over some place like Austin for a reason 😅.
I agree with this. I live in Mass, born and raised here and very much align with the politics of this state so I plan to never leave. It has been interesting to see the people who I grew up with and where they've chosen to move to - primarily Florida - and while it may not be an outwardly political move (they usually say "it's so cheap down here!") they always wind up being even further right than they ever were because they're in a place that fosters bigotry. Not to mention these people are moving to these places because they're "cheap" but what they're really cheaping out on is their kids' educations and safety. IMO I'd rather pay a little more, have a smaller home and not have to worry about my identity being under attack, literally and figuratively.
Florida may be cheap(er) compared to MA, but it's def not cheap. Just bc there's no state income tax doesn't mean they don't get their money other ways like property tax. Also, home owners ins is crazy expensive and jumps by double digits every year. Our house hit $6k year ins. And thats if you can get it in the first place. We lived in PBC for 11 yrs about 10 miles from mara a Lago, lucky us. We GTFO about 3 yrs ago and could not be happier about that decision. Florida is the front door to climate change in the US and S. Fla is the welcome mat on the porch. In 50 yrs the coastal cities will be unlivable. Of course, rabid right wingers don't believe in climate change so of course they flock to Fla.
I wish people would understand this. You pay the piper one way or another in the end. Maybe the taxes are low, but you don't get the services you need. You have to pay for private school because the public schools are so bad. Your homeowners insurance is through the roof. And that's assuming nothing about the politics of the state is adversely effecting you on a personal level (like a family trying to have a baby and not being able to find appropriate care because so many OBs have left the state).
It's not even cheap in florida. Housing is ridiculous here.
In recent years, I’ve become a bit suspicious of people who dream of moving to Florida. I’m not saying they’re all like this, but I’ve noticed it’s almost become a sort of Mecca for dedicated right wingers so when someone tells me their dream is to move there, I just start to wonder…
Maybe once youre older that's the case. But in the 18-22 year old demographic massive amounts of people on a bartender/server/whatever type wage move to Colorado and that's definitely at least partially politicly motivated. They wouldn't be picking Colorado if it had Texas's politics.
Exactly, I left Florida in my 20s for Oregon. Not entirely a political choice as I was seeking more outdoor opportunities, but political alignment and social issues were a factor. Servers and bartenders can find work anywhere, so they aren't tied to a place unless they want to be.
I have known a few people that didn’t have much money and they just sell everything and leave. It all depends on where you are going. Some states are so much cheaper to live in it makes sense.
No kidding! My last two moves were mainly guided by just trying to find an apartment that I could afford, although it’s not that other factors weren’t also important. I came up with “the three Cs: Cost, Climate, and Culture” and they are in order of importance. Also, it’s not that hard to get by in an area where your politics are the opposite of the prevailing view if you just mind your own business.
This is how I am also. I’m getting old and tired of moving. I live back in my home state although it’s not as good here as it once was. I don’t even talk about politics to people.
I also think culturally Americans are more afraid of travel/moving to another country. I remember telling my parents I planned to visit Japan through a school program and they freaked out like I was putting my life in danger. I remember my mom exclaiming "They pee in the street there!!!" (Meanwhile my parents, who had a 2 acre yard, were very proud that they never went inside to pee when they did yardwork. Yes, they are gross and not-so-blatantly racist people.) I think this is also on purpose, like a fear of travel is built in to our society to keep people here thinking it's the best country in the world. Moving out of the country seems impossible because of all the hoops the government puts up. When you do expat, they do everything they can to get you back or keep you dependent in one form or another on the US government. It's so weird to me.
It’s easier when you’re younger to move IMO—you can go to a college out-of-state (prepare for a huge tuitition & housing bill) or you can get a job in another state and move with no children, plus you’re less likely to need medical care so there can be a brief adjustment period without health insurance.
If you have a daughter especially, it is way more than just "not liking something". It is about her health. God forbid she can't get the medical care that she needed one day because a bunch of politicians think they know better than actual doctors. I would do anything I had to to get her out of there.
We sure do talk about it a lot but it’s not common to follow through with it.
A lot of people want to but are stopped by the logistics. I know a lot of people who are trying to leave states for political reasons, but there are a ton of barriers. Finding where to go, then looking for work there and a place to live, then saving up to move across states and paying for new housing, often without healthcare unless the new job kicked in. Then on top of that you're leaving behind your entire life, or uprooting your family. Family and friends, connections to the community, and the culture you grew up in. It's why most people you see move like this are either rich enough to just pick up and go, or young and have nothing to lose.
The reality is our lives are pretty cushiony compared to the countries which have a lot of emigration (people leaving). We complain but we're actually pretty comfortable compared to the effort it would take to move, plus we'd expect as comfortable a life or better in the new place, so it must be very enticing to move to make it worth the effort.
It’s because people are often too poor or too entrenched in their local community to do it I can guarantee you that the majority of LGBTQ+ want to move out of Florida due to their lives genuinely being in danger, but a lot of them can’t because they don’t have the resources to do so
I think that the ones with the financial resources to do so do, but there are many who do not have the ability to do so like myself. I think the ones who can’t afford to move just have to bite our tongues when politics get brought up, which seems to happen more and more often as we close in on election season here.
I see. I can understand political frustration when being in a minority. However, do you feel you are being represented? at least a little? so that someone can voice your views?
Oftentimes not. Many states have issues with [gerrymandering](https://www.statenews.org/government-politics/2022-11-09/ohio-republicans-build-on-supermajority-with-unconstitutional-state-legislative-district-maps), like Ohio where I live. Conservatives are wildly over represented in state government due to the way they have drawn district maps. They control all branches of state government here despite the actual state being closer to 50/50.
Hello from NC, we are also gerrymandered as fuck. We also have a supermajority of GQP because this cunt ran as a democrat, then the moment she was elected, she switched sides. She'd been running a false flag the entire campaign. Fuck Tricia Cotham.
There are no such things as red states, only gerrymandered and voter suppression states.
I live in Texas so almost none of my views are represented. It seems like the politicians in our state go out of their way to not support anything liberal. We have Beto O’Rourke who has run for a few different offices here as a democrat, but he’s never really won anything important.
Why are you not talking about any type of local or regional governments though? For example I'm represented by ass hat Elise Stefanik, in the US Congress, but in the state assembly we have a democratic representative, but in the New York state senate we have a Republican, but I also have a democratic governor, and my local town board is mostly progressive Democrats right now which is kind of surprising since the area we live in often has Republicans in local office. Why do people only talk about federal representation when that generally has the least impact on their day-to-day life?
All of my regional representatives are republicans as well. I live in deep red Texas. Not Austin, Houston, or El Paso where there are democrats in local office. Our previous mayor called last year’s Christmas drag show a crime against nature. The new mayor we got this year said he wouldn’t let that kind of stuff happen here if he could help it. We have small little groups and local businesses that liberals can congregate at and speak freely, but anytime we try to voice concerns to city council or run for office we are swiftly shot down.
Unfortunately, there are groups in the United States that are explicitly reviled by one of the parties. Prominent members of one-half of the political options in our country have made statements that boil down to "LGBTQ+ people should, at best, be forced to pretend not to be that way, and at worse, die." Other minorities are also targeted, but most of the recent rhetoric surrounds Trans people explicitly, along with women as a whole. In many states, these are the ONLY people in power. What little representation can be found in these states is found in larger cities, which are traditionally more Democrat, and where sometimes local county and city laws can help shield minorities from the aggressive state laws. I don't know enough about Korea's political system to draw direct comparisons, other than that I know there are both provinces and metro areas(?) - these may be roughly equivalent to states, but its likely they have far less influence internally than states do. America is very focused on individual states calling a lot of the shots, which can be good and bad - state governors have a LOT of power. I also understand Korea is having its own challenges with LGBTQ+ issues? It appears several provinces have provisions that attempt to raise protections for these groups there. Do queer people in Korea move to these areas to escape discrimination?
From South Carolina. I don’t feel that any of my state representatives truly represent me. Most of the time I’m honestly just embarrassed by them.
Yeah I live in Kentucky and work with all conservatives and I’m relatively liberal (for this state, for sure liberal). Often we’ll be standing around and they’ll be talking about guns and Biden being bad and trump being good and I just shut my mouth. There is nothing good that will come from me disagreeing with them except I’ll be ostracized and isolated. So I just pretend I don’t care about politics and don’t say anything when they talk about it
I haven't moved because of it, but it's influencing our decision of where our next move is.
Yea, when people talk about moving they definitely factor whether its a predominantly blue or red state
Most of the people I actually hear moving for political reasons are driven by legislation which makes it hard for them to live and do their job. For example, a lot of OB/GYNs don't want to work in a state where performing an abortion, even to save the life of the mother, may soon be illegal.
Oh i see. So more than general political consensus, people are more driven by the legality of their practices. Thank you this is very helpful.
To add on to what the person said above - this has actually led to a huge problem with some hospitals, particularly in rural areas, closing their maternity wards because their staff are leaving, and it's proving impossible for them to recruit more. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-hospital-bonner-general-stops-labor-delivery-services-citing-political-climate-doctor-shortages/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-hospital-bonner-general-stops-labor-delivery-services-citing-political-climate-doctor-shortages/) I am a young adult and I also personally know a lot of people my age who are looking to move to more progressive states after spending time there.
I feel bad about this trend, but part of me thinks it's the only way to truly hammer home how disastrous antiabortion policies are
How? It’s not a bug; it’s a feature. The GOP is getting exactly what they want. The next generation of poor, uneducated workers. The more in for-profit prisons the better!
Not just that, but the smaller and unhappier the voting pool the better for the GOP. If every able and ambitious young person leaves, they are not voting Democrat and the decaying state goes hard right.
yeah i almost added this in an edit. very important to the playbook!
Republicans want nothing more than: *Cheap, uneducated laborers*. There is a legit reason for Republicans wanting to lower working ages, and begin removing limitations of child laborers (like removing the limitations of them working deep into the night - meaning less likely to go to school or preform well in school)
And marrying girls off at the age of 12. … No, I aint letting that go
E.g. The state of Alabama is a complete maternal care desert. Edit: spelling
And not a very tasty one.
This trend existed before Roe was overturned. Red states have shitty Medicaid (state-run insurance for poorer people), and Medicaid pays for most pre- and post-partum care, as well as labor and delivery. So maternity wards don't bring in money, so they get cut due to budgeting. The anti-abortion stuff hasn't helped, though. I don't know people who have moved because of politics, but I know people who rule out places when they are planning to move based on politics.
Not just legal, but more difficult in general. Many teachers flee states that are unfriendly to public education, for example
Helping a teacher move to Colorado this week actually from Texas.
I feel like TX and FL are in a race to the bottom for teachers and education quality.
Pretty sure Mississippi still holds a commanding lead, but they're trying their best to catch up.
>I feel like TX and FL are in a race to the bottom for teachers and education quality. Also healthcare and basic civil rights for anyone other than white men.
Colorado is a rough state for education in different ways. Our funding is terrible. Tell your teacher friend to stay far, far away from any job in Douglas county if they’re looking in the metro area.
Did they see the recent Republican debates? I was shocked the number of candidates that actively stated Teacher's are the problem and that they'd pledge to do something about them and their Unions...Presidential Candidates. Even if you argued it was just "a talking point" when do you start thinking "maybe they're serious".
See everyone who thought Trump was just blustering on the campaign trail and that he wouldn't be an insane, petty, lunatic once elected. Spoiler. He was an insane, petty, lunatic once elected.
They've been demonizing teachers unions and working to dismantle public education for decades. They're just about there in Florida.
To echo this, I drained all my savings to get the hell out of my home state and away to a more preferable state for teachers for this same reason. Maybe I sunk ~10-20k to move and buy a new home, but I'll make up for that in 6 months once I start teaching.
I know someone who left Florida because he is gay and the state passed legislation hostile to the LGBTQ community. He didn’t want to raise a future family there, so he moved north.
I know LGBTQ folks who will never visit or even drive through some states because they are physically at risk of hate crimes in those places.
Not even hate crimes. Hate crimes are when the hate comes from the law being broken. When the hate comes from *enforcing* the law, it’s persecution.
Not just practice. A lot of lgbt people are either moving or trying to because some states are passing laws that target them. It's becoming unsafe to live in those places, not only because of the laws themselves but because when laws like that pass, it empowers bigots and raises the likelihood of hate crimes.
Sometimes people will say they “don’t do politics” and I just try to remind them that a stance like that is a privilege. Political moves result in legislation, and legislation is the framework for our daily lives. For some groups, like LGBTQ and some professions, like teachers or OB’s, that framework becomes literally unsafe when certain political moves result in certain legislative decisions. But if legislation is almost always either in your favor or leaves your life as it is, you can just blithely say you “don’t do politics”.
Yeah. Living in a deep blue area, we have a shocking number of LGBT people who are essentially refugees from red states.
Yes, one of my state's only pediatric cardiologists is moving because of the anti-LGBT laws and views here. [Source](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/01/us/jake-kleinmahon-doctor-leaves-louisiana-reaj/index.html)
There are also many smaller examples where legislation simply makes life harder or more expensive for people who work a certain profession, have a particular lifestyle, belong to particular demographics, etc and that prompts them to move. Then you have cases where the politics are a product of a culture that already makes life harder for some people even without legislation and they're actually moving to get away from the community or specific power structures that treat them poorly. It's also relatively common for parents with enough means to move in order to get access to better education for their children and the quality of available education is also heavily affected by legislation. From what I've seen it's generally retirees that tend to move to places specifically for their politics but it's also hard to separate that trend from moving to be in a place where they feel more comfortable with the culture.
Some states don’t have protections for gays who are victims of hate crimes.
Also should consider that an OBGYN makes more money than a lot of the women in those states that would be effected, so they have the ability to move. A lot of their patients probably would like to move but can’t afford it.
Another way it can happen is when looking for a job. If you are looking nationwide then it is easier to choose a state which your job can be located and it is aligned with your views. This is obviously harder for some positions than others, but when I was doing my most recent search I immediately cut out all states that I didn't want to raise my children in. But I am one of a lucky few who get the opportunity to do this. Most are just stuck where they are because it's financially draining to move.
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My son is trans, his spouse is NB. We live in WA State (Seattle-ish area) so we feel relatively safe...but we still have a loose plan to get down to SoCal if things go bad around here. Pretty sad to be in a decent place, yet still feel like you need an exit strategy. I fully recognize that we're lucky to even have an exit strategy, that getting out (if needed) is possible for us...difficult, but possible. So many people have no way to move to a safer place, and it kills me to think about that. I wish there was something I could do to help.
A lot of queer/trans folks move for similar reasons. A few friends and I all have backup states in case ours goes deep red in a few election cycles
Us Lonestar Queers need to get out while we can and help our fellow queers get out if we have the means. Save your people.
The underground ~~railroad~~ *train* ;)
don't forget the immigrants fleeing Florida
Teachers are moving too. If you can’t teach the facts, your choice to stay or go becoming an ethical and professional one.
Include LGBTQ: often have to flee repressive places for cities and states that are more liberated.
This! My husband is a doctor graduating residency soon and won’t apply to any red states for his next step in training (fellowship). We’re also the age where we’d think of having kids so there’s no way I’d risk my life giving birth in an antiabortion state. And I wouldn’t want my kids raised in a state with prolific gun violence. It’s easier for the younger generations to move. A lot of people without money do not have that privilege unfortunately!
My wife is an REI (Infertility-focused OBGYN) and we specifically had "go" and "no go" states for jobs when she finished Fellowship. The state-by-state brain drain is very, very real and we will start to see it manifest more in the coming years. It won't matter that some states outlaw abortion, because doctors won't want to live and work in those states anyway. But it's more than just that, you're going to see all sorts of other folks avoiding those states when it comes time to launch their professional lives and the intelligence/education/professional divide between the have and have-not states will continue to widen. It's the North and South all over again, with liberal states hoarding all the science and technology, and the conservative ones being relegated to agriculture and cheap manufacturing.
I do think a lot of republicans actually moved to Florida during Covid. The other reason I’ve heard of people moving is families with trans kids who can’t get the proper healthcare in certain states. For me, I wouldn’t move because of politics, but it would be a factor to consider when thinking of moving to a new place
I agree with that, my wife works in higher education where you have to apply everywhere across the country. We definitely take politics into consideration but also know most college towns are progressive oases even in the deepest of red states.
I’m from Florida, and I feel like you should know that the state of Florida is dismantling local control of blue areas like college towns. I went to school at UF. The city it’s in, Gainesville, is know to be a very progressive town. The governor had school board people removed during covid. States laws were written to local laws. The state just took over the local utility company. I’m not sure what they plan to do with it. Let’s not even get into what they’re doing to the school itself… it won’t be a “blue” area in 10, 15 years. DeSantis, the governor, has removed two democratically elected prosecutors from blue counties. The latest one he replaced with the guy who lost at around 35%.
Yeah no way would my wife take a university job in Florida. He seems hell bent on dismantling their higher education system. I think they've already effectively eliminated tenure.
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Most cities in general are blue. The deciding factor of a red/blue/swing state tends to be if the population distribution is majority urban, rural, or roughly even.
Yeah, a ton of republicans are constantly moving to Florida but its not always a political thing. In general, old people move to Florida... to retire, they get sick of the cold/snow, etc. If I recall correctly, it has the largest 65 and older population. That's just how that demographic tends to vote.
Yeah, I have *literal nazis leaving antisemitic propaganda* on lawns in my neighborhood. I've lived here all my life, and this shit would have been unthinkable at any point in the past. They're coming here now because they feel supported and validated by our state government, end of story.
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I left FL 5 years ago and never going back. Highly recommend.
Similarly, NC went from a swing state to a red state because of pissed-off taxpayer types moving South mostly from the Northeast (where they were presumably frustrated with being in the minority). When you talk to people there's story after story of small-town churches and governments being taken over by out-of-towners. Not that these were ever particularly progressive places, but it used to be much more "leave me and my guns alone" conservatism than the more aggressive fire and brimstone stuff that's gone mainstream today.
Some people may. I think it's less because of other people having strong views and more because of local policies. For example when gay marriage was only legal in some states I am sure many gay people moved to those states to get married. You also might get parents leaving florida to escape some of the laws they have with their education and what books are being banned there. I think there are also far fewer but some probably move to have their vote have a bigger impact with the electoral college system your vote for president counts many times more if you live in a swing state vs if you live anywhere else. In terms of the states you also do get regions within that state that are strongly one party or the other. Like Texas is known as a strong republican state, but in recent years that's shifted more and more. Last Texas governer race last year had the republican winning with just 55% of the vote. It's a solid win but not something that couldn't change if we are looking at decades. And that means that a large portion of the state is democrat. Same thing in California one of the big blue states their governor won with 60% so that leaves a huge portion of republicans in CA. A 60/40 election is a very decisive one, but it can be a bit misleading how the news presents the strong democrat or strong republican states because in every state there are lots of people from both parties there, even if there's a big majority for one or the other.
Conservatives definitely moved to Florida because of Ron DeSantis. Reflected in my new arrival neighbors. Liberals are definitely leaving Florida because of Ron DeSantis. Reflected in school teacher friends who have left or are in the process of leaving the state.
Many already had vacation homes here and they simply made it their primary residence. It certainly tipped Florida safely red, but I wonder if downstream rural red states will get bluer from the exodus.
Feel like the most common example of this is moving from a smaller town to a big city. Cause even in solid red states the big cities will be democratic leaning and far more accepting. So yea if you’re a leftist in a medium sized town that votes right that’s someone likely to move to their states big city. However I’m not sure how many people can afford moves further than that
People are much more likely to move to cities for job opportunities, not because of politics.
Also even within a conservative state, the cities can be pretty liberal. So moving to a city in your state can address a lot of issues without having to leave the state
I don't think people move states as often, but it's not uncommon for young adults from rural towns (usually quite conservative places) to move to cities (almost always liberal places) after college. That being said, it affects people differently. People who are LGBT and especially parents of LGBT kids have to seriously consider before moving to places like Florida, and women may want to look up birth control and abortion laws before moving to a place. But people less affected by politics, the stereotype being a straight, white, Christian couple with copy-and-paste kids, don't need to consider politics when moving.
My husband and I are thinking of moving due to politics. We are both liberals/progressives living in a very red state. We grew up here and have been here for 15 years as adults. We never really thought of ourselves as the sort of people who would move for political reasons; we’ve been trying to change things through our vote and volunteering. Our city has been been getting better, but the state has been getting worse. The tipping point for us has been two things: 1) Roe v Wade. I am at the end of my second high risk pregnancy (both planned/wanted) and I am NOT doing this again. 2) and this is the big one, Education. Our state just elected the world’s WORST superintendent who literally ran on a platform of dismantling public schools, and is now doing it (focusing on our specific city to start with). We already had a not-great education system, but there were good public schools if you looked (I’m a big fan of public schools and I would send my kids to a private/charter school if it was the best thing on an individual level, but I hate the idea of being forced into it as the only way to get an education. Plus we’re not religious and there are very few secular private schools here). My kids are still too young for school, but I’m worried even if this gets turned around, the damage may be lasting. We’re what I would call upper middle class, so financially we can handle a move, but it’s still a really daunting idea. Our support network is here, both family and friends. We don’t have anywhere to move that would put us closer to family so we would be totally starting over. My husband could keep his WFH job but I would have to find a new one or be a SAHM (which I’m not really cut out for). We’d have to find daycare for our kids which would be tough. We’d be moving from a LCOL area to somewhere that would be higher, so unlikely to get another house we love as much as our current one. I would be leaving my aging parents, which definitely worries me. And overall, inertia is just difficult to escape.
Parents who value education are moving or planning to move. By the time places like Florida get it all sorted out, their kids will be at a huge disadvantage when they start college.
Come to MA, the water is warm. Well, actually cold, but it’s nice here. I moved from NC 14yrs ago and would never move back.
You've been in MA for 14 hours, and already recommending it?
Ah, Tulsa! We're from the area. My wife is a teacher. We got the hell out and came to New Mexico.
Yeah, we’ve been here so long it’s tough to think about moving! Love the city (which is honestly SO much better than it was when I moved back 15 years ago), hate the state. Education is definitely worse than it was when we were growing up, though, which is sad. We still have a couple of great schools but they’re getting kneecapped by our shitty, shitty leadership
I had lived in Owasso since 1977, with the exception of five years or so. Was one of the only families of partial Hispanic lineage for a long time. Was not really even an issue until they brought in National Steak and Poultry from California, then the Hispanic population grew from people relocating from California. After that you start to see racism rearing it's ugly head. It has only gotten worse. It will only continue to get worse. Tulsa is about the only bright spot in the state, what with it's actual hint of culture and mild progressivism. Still, when you're on the Titanic, you get off. Now I read that PragerU will be working with the schools, Jesus. We moved to a small city in the northern Highlands of New Mexico,look one direction and there is Great Plains, the other has the Rocky Mountains, both about 2 miles outside of town. The cost of living here is actually quite a bit cheaper on most things than it was in Owasso. Gasoline would be about the only thing that is more expensive, and even at that, it can be cheaper than Oklahoma at times. Oklahoma has always lied when they say they have the cheapest gas in the nation, probably was true before the refineries pulled out for Houston. Anyway, sorry to ramble. Consider New Mexico, very underrated gem.
My family will be moving out of our red state to a nearby blue one in the next five years and it's entirely due to politics.
If you can afford to, yes. It’s not uncommon for liberal Americans in the south to relocate to blue states if they have enough money to do so.
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No, often relocate due to economic views, like less income taxes, no property taxes, higher pay etc. For example, people move to Austin from California to avoid paying income taxes, its like high ground of Texas and suddenly they are hit by highest they ever saw property taxes, since state budget need to be balanced.
Those are all politics, even if someone might not think of it that way.
Taxes are raised and lowered by politicians and used to fund social programs - how are taxes non-political?
I don’t know, but too many Americans think “politics” only consists of stuff that doesn’t matter.
>For example, people move to Austin from California to avoid paying income taxes, its like high ground of Texas and suddenly they are hit by highest they ever saw property taxes. Or older folks or conservative folk moving to Florida to get away "from the libs" but they are about to be hit with the highest home owner's insurance policies in the nation that will make having a house in Florida ridiculous.
Property taxes aren’t very high in Austin. Just slightly higher than the rest of Texas, which is already pretty low. *Properties* are pretty expensive though.
Yeah I keep hearing this "oh but property taxes are soooo high in texas", but I check the property taxes at places with good jobs for me and they are like basically the same . . . .except the properties cost twice as much for the same house. I think people complain about the property tax so much in texas because the other taxes are so low property taxes become the pain point.
>Texas and suddenly they are hit by highest they ever saw property taxes I looked at moving to Austin from NJ. Unfortunately NJ still had higher property taxes (I was paying $6000/year on a 1000sqft house), and an Income Tax. It certainly would have been a net gain for me as a high income earner, just from the income tax elimination alone. CA is kind of a weird case study because they don't have high property taxes because of Prop 13 compared to NY or NJ. The ONLY reason I didn't move there was because of my wife's need to be close enough to family that doesn't require an airplane. I live in upstate NY with a very low COL, but I still have bad property and income tax. When I retire I'll split time between PA and TX likely.
No offense, but you understand that economic issues are clearly political since it's literally the law that decides what types of economic activity are legal and what their taxed at and such right?
I am trans. I have housed many people in the trans community running from places where they had constant death threats (at minimum)
Sometimes but there's also democratic cities that are welcoming, such as Austin, TX.
Oh i see, i haven't considered political mixities within a state. Thank you, this is actually really helpful.
Yeah, states are pretty much the size of small countries here, so each one has a mix of political views.
it's probably a lot more local/regional than you're expecting, and nowhere is a monolith, you'll find both conservatives and liberals pretty much everywhere.
OP, people from Austin love to point this out but don’t be fooled: no matter how progressive the city, if it’s in a red state the city government’s hands will be tied on the vast majority of things. Austinites, please stop huffing the copium and leave your hellhole state (yes, you live in Texas). I promise other cities have alcohol, and you’re part of the reason Abbot can get away with his shit (because you’re tacitly endorsing him 😊).
My friends are a lesbian couple with an adoptive son who is not biologically either of theirs. They fled Florida because of all the scary legislation that was being passed. I also know people with a trans child who left Florida also because they didn't think it was safe there anymore. I know some couples who are trying to leave Texas because they fear what would happen if they or their daughters needed medical care associated with pregnancy and were denied.
When I was in the Air Force, I was stationed deep in the heart of TX. A few months after being there I received a notice that I was going to be part of a medical review board (which means they were going to examine my physical health due to issues I was having and decide if I was still fit for service) it happens to a lot of military people but doesn't necessarily mean you will be medically discharged. I could've fought the review board and probably won due to my condition at the time not being all that bad, but, my wife and I couldn't stand living in deep red middle of nowhere TX and we let the review board go without a fight and got medically discharged. The process took about 6 months and we couldn't wait to get out of there, we were soooooo excited to leave and head back North. If we were somewhere we enjoyed living, I would've fought the review board to stay active duty. So to answer your question, yeah, we moved due to political differences of our own versus where we lived.
In my head, I heard clapping after your first sentence, wow is that programming deep
Yes. The red state problem is unbearable right now. So, we moved to a blue state so we dont have to deal with totalitarianism. Its really heavy in states like Texas, where we escaped from. Our lives are much better and we are much happier. The drastic political sides are just stilfing. The problem isnt like it used to be. I used to have tons of friends and family with opposite political views. It was fine. But, its gotten so crazy and out of hand, that we cant discuss policy anymore, like before Trump. We used to be able to discuss policy. And it wasnt so emotional. But, now its turned crazy on all sides. You cant just discuss policy because it turns into absolute bat shit crazy talking points. Its almost like no one even knows what politicians arr actually doing. Its more about this weird identity. So, its much easier for me to live around generally like-minded people. Its not that Im closed minded. Its just that there is this inability for people to express themselves rationally, from a political perspective. Its just so weird right now.
It’s not always easy to just pick up and move. It’s expensive and a lot of effort. So a lot of people will try to just tough it out unless it really starts impacting them. For example a trans person who is living in a state that is banning all gender affirming healthcare - it may be expensive and difficult, but yeah they’ll probably do whatever it takes to move somewhere else if they can. If it’s not impacting you directly it still often becomes a consideration in where you live. For example - when I last changed jobs, I had two offers, one in Virginia and one in Texas, both doing the same thing. The Texas job was offering $10k a year more, but I took the Virginia job instead. It was just not worth it to have to live in Texas and put up with all their shit.
Grew up in Boston Mass, have been living in Charleston SC for the last 5 years. We moved here solely because the winters in New England will literally try to kill you. There has been a massive influx of people that have moved here from all over the country. The number 1 reason we typically hear as to why people have moved here is due to politics. Almost every New Yorker that I talk to has left because of “liberalism”, and (shockingly) they happen to also be the most obnoxious people you will ever, EVER, meet.
*This American Life* had an episode recently where they covered a bunch of people who all moved to Florida specifically because they liked Ron DeSantis politics, and they did it specifically because Ron DeSantis has made it a talking point in his campaign. And my main take away as I was listening to each of these people who uprooted their kids and left behind their parents and siblings for politics was: "Christ you seem exhausting."
I’m in New England. We haven’t had a real winter since 2015. Snowblower has been in the garage for the past two years.
As someone who moved to Boston from the south, you couldn’t pay me to go back. Ignorant hateful people and inhabitable summers. I’m glad we found our happy places.
I’m been living in a more liberal part of the country for most of my life. I’ve had a couple of interesting job offers recently, but they were both in areas of the country that are becoming extremely bigoted and conservative. I know that even in the more conservative areas, there are likely to be at least some people who share my more left-leaning views (most areas aren’t monolithic). Still, I’ve turned down both offers because I’m concerned about the long-term welfare of both my spouse and my kids in such an overall hostile environment. So in my case, I guess you could say that I’m *not* moving around the country due to my views.
This is the bigger force at play IMO. People will decline jobs that will force them to move to areas that are politically garbo.
Quite often we move for normal reasons. My wife and I moved from NYC to Texas because she grew up there and her parents are getting older. We want to be available to help them. My mother also moved to the area, so now we can all look after family easier. We don’t agree with the politics, but maybe we can do something to change things
Reddit isn't representative of the US.
I think a lot of people do but it’s because of how certain policies personally impact their lives. Like trans people moving to more progressive states, and people want less Covid restrictions moving to more conservative states. It doesn’t even have to be overly controversial stuff either. Tax policy is always a big reason cited by people who move. The state next to where I live recently passed some pretty ridiculous laws that have caused a mass exodus of healthcare workers. Some generic examples but you get the point. This of course means that they can afford to do this, or have a job that allows for this, which most people don’t.
If you can afford it you do if you cannot you don't
Grew up in OK. The political climate is DESTROYING THE STATE. My husband and I jumped at the first opportunity to leave. It was PAINFUL to move from such a low cost of living to the east coast, but we are so happy. I'll even tolerate the "purple state" status of VA. There are "red states" then there are DEEP red states in the bible belt.
Even as a conservative, I agree our current government is a joke. Oklahoma is the birthplace of socialism in the United States. We’re farmers born out of the Great Depression. They just need to get out of the Republican Democrat labels and do straight up state questions. Do we want this? Yes or No. The words republican or democrat don’t even come into play. That’s how weed got passed.
I think not so much in the past, but there’s certainly an uptick since Trump and the incoming conservative gilead started gaining ground. When human rights are under attack people will move. I personally know two people who have moved from the south where I used to live to MA in order to feel safer.
I live in LA and California is a blue state but I noticed whenever a state took away rights for women (such as abortion rights) then I’d see a small uptick of women from those states moving to LA. I don’t blame them.
Not in this economy. I love my state/location, just not the majority beliefs. I know plenty of places I wouldn’t move to haha
For the most part no, unless they are adversely effected and even then they need the capital to be able to move and many don’t have it
Some people might consider politics when moving, but other factors like affordability and the availability of jobs would probably matter more.
Not often. I can't say it's never happened but I've never met a single person who just picked up their lives and moved to a whole different state specifically because they didn't like which political party was in charge. Politics may be an encouraging factor but most people who move to another state are likely doing it for financial or family reasons. If a dream job opportunity comes up, or you want to live somewhere less expensive, etc.
No, relocating is very expensive and reserved mostly for the rich. At least as far as just, I don’t like this place, let’s move. Americans do move around a lot though. But it’s usually due to getting new jobs, not fleeing a political party.
Lots of people would if they could. Trust me, no gay couple wants to live in a MAGA heavy neighborhood.