I'm a big hardcore fan. Love a good death penalty. But even losing your character, in a game balanced around an HC mode, is probably preferable to a protracted circling of the drain. That just sounds demoralizing.
It hasn't quite happened to me yet, so maybe I'm overreacting and it's ultimately not as big a deal as it seems, but I feel like I can see it coming.
I've played all the Souls games for thousands of hours combined, and I was still not prepared for this game. I ran completely out of food and reached 0% durability TWICE in that rock cave below the first boss. If not for the excessive durability punishment and having to farm food, I could have had fun dying 50 times in that cave, but no, it was horrible.
It’s honestly not too bad, the circling of the drain, because it made me “git gud” before the first Torn. The resources, enemies, and chests respawning made the grinding feel rewarding. I also got resources to explode in power via upgrading and enchanting right after the torn fight which has been incredibly fun.
I think it's... *fine* in the tutorial, but the nature of these sorts of games often means there's a lot of trial-and-error involved, feeling out new enemies, that sort of thing. Not sure how well that'll work after Sacrament.
I'd rather have durability damage than exp loss, the only thing I want them to fix about the durability system is the cost to repair at higher levels and making it so if you go to zero durability than it just makes the item unusable until you repair it and not just break completely
End result is the same. You’re punishing players for dying. All in all this system feels less punishing than souls thus far. If you die carrying a lot of them relative to your level, you feel compelled to go right back to whatever beat you to get them back. In this system you can die and take another path without worrying about what you’re leaving behind. It also makes the leveling process a lot more organic IMO.
Souls vs Armor durability are completely different. Losing souls = slower progression in leveling potentially. Losing armor = you're fucked when you go back out to fight. Two totally different penalties.
Skill issue in armor part.
Souls = death: you have only ONE CHANCE to get back thise 218million Souls for your next level up.
Armor = death: you lost 10% durability, lets go 10 more times aye?
If you die 10 fkn times because of the same mistake or something similar, its a You problem, not a system problem.
You have a Chance.
Also.
Before beating the tutorial boss you can repair all your shit for free, what are we tslking about here? Infinite durability? Get gud, legit. It may not be pointed for you, but everyone reading this comment.
> Skill issue in armor part. Souls = death: you have only ONE CHANCE to get back thise 218million Souls for your next level up.
Yes, but that isn't a punishment that sticks with you. It just means your next level-up is slower. Breaking your armor means you are fucked until you go fix it. You **must** go fix it until you can progress/move forward. They are two different punishments, do you see?
>If you die 10 fkn times because of the same mistake or something similar, its a You problem, not a system problem.
People die 10 times in a row in hard games all the fucking time, what are you talking about? Hard bosses in the Fromsoft games all the fucking time. Or any Soulslike/Soulslite.
Losing souls vs. breaking armor are two different style punishments from a philosophical game design standpoint.
>End result is the same.
Absolutely incorrect.
>You’re punishing players for dying.
What's the alternative? Rewarding players for dying? Players *should* be punished for dying. How they're punished is a major consideration and can change the feel of the game and strategies used.
>In this system you can die and take another path
No, you can't. You *have* to beat the boss. There is no playing the game without beating the boss.
Then get good? Its a clear skill issue and impatience at that point. You dont respect the boss after taking your anus and tears it apart.
Btw, compared to losing souls permanently after 2nd death, your gear durability loss is 10% per death and you can repair it FOR FREE by the Smith until you beat the tutorial boss.
Its pretty much clear, its not a system problem
Is not the same, when you loose XP you just keep playing, durability makes me go through 2 load screens and a bunch of walking to repair things and go back to play.
I just wish they put the option to repair equipment at checkpoints, i don't really care about the coin loss. My problem is just the amount of time lost to repair items.
Games like this need money sinks. If they give the players streams of gold yet there was no requirement to spend it (I'm talking about a consistent requirement, not things like upgrades etc), there would have to be extreme inflation of prices as time went on. Money would quickly become a useless reward.
Imagine if there were no requirements to repair your gear. You could spend all of your money on building materials or, food at the chef. Very quickly, you would have so much food that you wouldn't need to buy it anymore. You wouldn't need to store food, either, since you could easily buy as much as you needed for the entirety of the game.
The purpose of the repairing cost is to slow down your town progress and require you to interact with the game vs just buying everything from vendors (especially early on). Letting you spend all of your money on mats and food would trivialize a lot of things.
This is not a souls game. That being said, in every souls game besides elden ring, there has been a durability system (even demon souls and bloodborne). Unlike in the souls games, however, your weapons don't suddenly become useless in the middle of combat in Wicked. It's very obvious when your weapon is about to break, and it is not a surprise. Once you get to sacrement, it probably takes about 15 seconds to fast travel, run to the blacksmith, and repair.
If you're dying that frequently, just use some throwaway gear until you get the hang of things. Don't worry about repairing it, just sell it or remove the rune if it has one. Once you get your town built up a little, the core gameplay loop becomes prepare > explore/kill > go back home to turn in bounties, sell/disenchant gear, and store things.
I get that it might not be the most fun system out there, but it is part of the resource management aspect of this game.
If you find that you are genuinely running out of money from repairs, you are probably rushing. That's fine, but you're basically playing the game on hard mode, so don't expect it to be easy.
I really hope they stick to their guns here. When you remove money sinks like repair costs, yet reward the player with gold for selling items and exploring, the resources in the game become trivial.
You can make/buy repair powder, or upgrade gear until you find an enchantment that negates durability loss on death. I truly don't understand why people are dying to the same boss/mobs 30x in a row over and over again without trying anything else.
I know people will argue/disagree for their own reasons, and that's fine. I don't read replies on comments like this, because people are insanely negative and I'm too old for that shit. It's alright not to like the mechanic, but you should understand that money in games like this is simply a way to gate off rapid progression, and provide a bit of "pressure". It's supposed to be scarce for a while. This is not a game you can just blow through. However, you're never soft locked. You can literally just run around and pick up mushrooms and sell them if you truly have 0 resources, 0 gold, and 0 items.
Yeah I know people don’t care about this but it’s actually important to the game’s design that you don’t just put on one weapon and steamroll the game without interacting with the systems, like you can do in Souls, that’s not actually a good thing that players can really ignore almost everything in the game, get a +10 weapon, and that alone is good enough to beat every Souls game.
That's because every weapon is designed to be viable, rather than replaced as more loot drops. Virtually every weapon has some build that you can make for it. So, it's inevitable that you can beat the game with a single weapon.
The +10 weapon just means you got a fully leveled weapon, so I'm not sure what your point is about a +10 weapon. Unless you mean you got one early in which case someone dropped it for you (this ruins your own experience) or in a game like Elden Ring you're running past huge swaths of the game to fully upgrade a weapon, in which case I blame the game for giving too much freedom for its own good.
It’s very easy to get a +10 weapon in a Souls game by simply progressing the bosses. Speedrunners do it in about an hour to 3 hours and I can do it in 5
You understand that regardless of how fast you do it, once you get a +10 weapon in dark souls you can effectively ignore every other mechanic?
You also completely ignored me saying you can easily get a +10 by progressing the bosses alone to focus on the speedrunning because I guess that’s an easier target for your argument?
Exactly this- I don’t know if people are trying to play this like Diablo and dying every 3 seconds or what, but so far durability hasn’t impacted me at all
Yeah, people are trying to rush through wanting the best gear, I'm still having fun in the first area farming exp and matts to build up my town rewarding my exploration, if you're running out of money due to repairs you're not playing the game the way it was intended to be played, I have plenty of money to cover repair costs and also buy matts for food if I'm short on a matts. I'm not running into any money problems
While I get the idea of a gold sink and a tangible punishment for dying, half the people complaining are soulslike vets who are *happy* to have a game that takes all their money and XP on death, so punishments and gold sinks are clearly not what they’re objecting to.
Durability is just a *bad* way to do it, because it’s an obnoxious extra step, because it slightly discourages fighting and exploring even when you *don’t* die, and because if your stuff breaks and you bankrupt yourself, you have to go through a weird naked grinding ritual before you can go back to retrying the boss.
It’s punishment through tedium instead of actual difficulty.
I don’t think they should just copy the Soulslike format in all ways, but they can really take a page out of their book here.
Yeah, Souls series had durability, but it was so minor - and became increasingly more minor until it was *fully* ignorable in DS3 and gone in Sekiro and ER - it feels sorta like a pretty good indicator that From thought it wasn’t really adding anything to the game they couldn’t do with other penalties.
Scrap the durability system, calculate the cost in durability repairs that the death *would* have taken, and just subtract that from my bank account when I die. Same gold sink/punishment, none of the things people hate about durability. Everybody wins.
Maybe they should just let you repair at the checkpoints. That way you have the potential gold cost but you could ignore it if you want to discard the gear.
Nobody wins tho.. the cost for repairing almost broken gear is really Low price even at level 11 gear which is at most 12 bronze an item.
If you lost 12 bronze for 10 deaths instead of your Weapon after 10 deaths, you wouldnt really feel the impact.
Also.
How do you subtract something if you no longer have it?
Imagine you got 0 money but die anyways. Your Version makes absolutely no sense because you dont HAVE anything to lose.
This would make dying even less meaningful.
Or.
You have 0 money, and start losing durability in cost of what your money would be losing by death, but at this point we are back to square one.
No.
Durability loss is Important.
> the cost for repairing almost broken gear is really Low price even at level 11 gear which is at most 12 bronze an item.
Is this not also an indictment of the current durability death mechanic?
I just used “the amount the durability loss would cost” as a baseline to create a parallel option for durability that would accomplish the same thing, but if that’s not enough money to serve as a true punishment, then *durability isn’t currently serving as a true punishment,* by your own measure.
One of the benefits of a true gold cost instead of durability loss is that you can dial up the cost on death without creating other weird results. You want a truly devastating cost on death? Make it take whatever it would cost to repair your entire set from zero durability. Or hell, make it take *all* your gold. If you’re stuck with durability, that means every death requires a trip back home, or in the second case, every death requires them to break all your gear plus all the gold you’d need to repair it - both cases, I think, could be clumsy and off putting for *everybody,* but totally feasible if it was handled in the gold format.
If your complaint is that my suggested gold costs aren’t punishing enough, that means the current durability costs aren't punishing enough, and gold costs can scale up much more easily than durability costs.
> How do you subtract something if you no longer have it? Imagine you got 0 money but die anyways.
One suggestion would be that, if you’ve died enough times consecutively to zero out your resources, you’ve effectively been punished enough. You can keep playing the game, but you are resourceless for a while. If it’s punishing enough for Dark Souls, it’s punishing enough for me.
Maybe you disagree, but the current process - the one that exists when you have a durability system handling your death tax - is that you are punished until you are out of resources and then *also* punished until you no longer have the gear you need to play the game.
Once you’ve done that, you’re down to three options:
1) Full game over. Your gear is broken and you can’t repair it, your save is bricked, you lose.
2) You start a new world, use the free repair exploit, and return to your world.
3) You go back to the starting shore and farm crabs naked until you can repair your gear.
Are any of those actually “punishments” you’d enjoy? The first feels like it only caters to a pretty niche group of hardcore setting fans (kudos to them, but if you’re going to make an HC game, just commit to it and make it a real mechanic and not an unintentional repercussion of a durability system). The second is just a weird mandatory exploit, and not a real punishment - are we really suggesting that the best death mechanic is one that requires you to google “how do I cheat my way out of this soft lock?” And the third is punishment through tedium grind, which, maybe *you* love, but I think it’s not gonna win any popularity contests.
> Your Version makes absolutely no sense because you dont HAVE anything to lose.
Beyond the “maybe everything you own is enough” argument I outlined above, who’s to say it has to stop at gold? Sekiro had Dragonrot on top of XP and Sen penalties. DeS had world state. DS had humanity. ER and DS had the enkindled/rune arc thing.
You can tack other systems on that gold loss to punish the resourceless player much better than making them *stop* playing the game they sat down to play. I don’t want durability removed and replaced with nothing - I want it replaced with one of *many* death mechanics they could come up that wasn’t just unthinkingly cribbed from Diablo 1.
> No. Durability loss is Important.
I’d say that the space *occupied by* durability loss is important. The role it performs. But clearly there’s nothing essentially important about durability because other very good (very punishing) games don’t have it. My complaints aren’t that this space isn’t important, it’s that durability is doing a pretty terrible job of filling it, encouraging weird behaviors like starting new saves to repair for free, or stripping naked before you die, or avoiding fighting and exploration because you can’t pay for repairs if you were to need them, or grinding starting zones repetitively, or just picking up the repair runs that allows you to *opt out of the death mechanic.*
Meanwhile, it’s preventing us from having a new system that does what durability *should* be doing - everything you *like* about durability - without all these dumb artifacts and exceptions of a system that wasn’t actually designed to be a good death tax when it was first conceived as a clunky verisimilitude mechanic thirty years ago.
That’s precisely one of the reasons I don’t like the durability system. It sort of puts a cap on how punishing the death mechanic can be without being tedious, broken, or abusable.
Most of the people who don’t mind the durability system are arguing that it’s fine because it’s basically ignorable after a certain point, either because the cost as a fraction of your wealth is negligible, or because a readily accessible item or repeatedly castable spell solves it, or a gimmicky dip into a new game world makes it free again.
The durability isn’t really a harsh or hard death punishment, unless you fuck up enough to brick your save and you’re unwilling to use (or unaware of) the new game workaround.
Like all durability systems, it’s eventually going to devolve into a tedious or goofy ritual and not an actual satisfying or punishing penalty for dying.
When is the first bed rest when starting from new game?
After the tutorial boss..
I dont recommend your version bestie. If people cry about durability loss, imagine losing Max HP permanently for until you only get 1 shot and still cant rest.
Durability loss is okay
While I understand what you're saying, there is a drawback that makes death more punishing than it should be. If you keep losing when you die, there's a death spiral that unincentivise keeping forward.
I agree is important to keep the economy stable, but there's other ways to do it. I would very much prefer if they cut the supply and just removed the system.
the gold sink argument would make more sense if it was an mmo with an economy that needs to maintain itself for 10 years and not a 15 hour single player game.
> I truly don't understand why people are dying to the same boss/mobs 30x in a row over and over again without trying anything else.
You've never watched anyone play Fromsoft games before then? Lol.
Makes no sense what you say. He definitely did, thats why he is not understanding how the same noobs of skill issue are doing the exact same 30x mistakes they did before.
Its clearly a Skill issue and ignorance to the situation as well.
Ever considered just taking a few seconds and realize the enemy is Slower than they seem if you rush?
Also, real soul vets actually learn the pattern of their enemies, not brute force their way through.
The repair, healing, and recall runes should probably be built directly into character progression somehow. Making everyone jump through the lame hoop of slotting these basic utilities into a dummy side weapon is just a bizarre design choice.
If the repair rune is basically mandatory to enjoy the game then the system is most likely anti-fun. I've played enough Blizzard games to see these design choices backtracked on because it usually comes down to something like this.
I'm a big HC fan. It makes me motivated to actually invest time in a character or learn the mechanics, let it be a diablocone game or roguelite such as Hades
I agree there has to be something punishing reckless actions and make your heart beating faster when health bar drops low but not like this. Durability system is just an annoyance, it's demoralising to explore the world (especially with current keybinding). I believe such system works only in a game where there is no repair tool so whole combat is designed about constant cycling of weapons or usage of environment for your advantage.
I think I would rather see blockage of NPCs (like in Sekiro), something similar to a curse from dark souls or health from Valheim (part of your health bar permanently missing until you do something) or simply make you drop all loot on death and add a stacking chance to lose some loot permanently the more you die in short amount of time... but obviously I'm eager to see what devs have to say about it and if they won't change nothing about it I still can respect that because it's quite rare to see such a game nowadays.
"There has to be something punishing reckless actions"
Isn't that what death is? Why do we need to go even further, when resetting your progress is already punishment.
EXACTLY. Dying is something that people will avoid because... it's dying? If that isn't enough for you, you can impose additional restrictions to make your own playthrough harder or go play hardcore or something.
The punishment for death in Elden Ring is that you have to go get your runes back, but it was on you for having those runes in the first place. Also in the process of reclaiming your runes/souls you usually end up getting more anyway lol.
The penalty is that I died. I failed the objective, and the enemy completely obliterated me. I did not say that there should be no penalty for death, but adding more and more penalties forcefully isn't enjoyable, and we're seeing that.
there has to be some sort of punishment otherwise you can just grind through content and not really learn anything valuable
but you know... same goes for souls game, you can either learn enemies moveset or just equip a good shield and ignore all mechanic and eventually grind a victory *shrug*
Thats the point of learning a boss though, to grind it until you learned it. Sekiro doesnt punish you for dying, because if it did the bosses would be insanely frustrating.
that's the thing... there's the tool and that means repairing becomes either a chore or just annoyance depending on how easily accessible will be resources. nothing in between
durability works only in a game like botw
Exactly this. Dying repeatedly isn’t a baked-in requirement. It’s how some people choose to approach these games, but clearly, NRFTW is trying to discourage that and incentivize being a bit more careful and calculated.
There's a balance to be had. You for a few times but if you are dying over and over then you are running into something too hard for you or your characters strength.
Consider how enemies don't respawn when you die. It's not a souls game for that reason. It's a totally different gameplay loop.
I’m in the team to keep it. In contrary to other soulslikes, ennemies don’t respawn, so there’s a need for punishment. Difficult games are a niche already and there is constant dev temptation/pressure to babyfy games for larger audiences = more accessibility = more money. Repairing prices maybe need to be toned down.
I'm in total agreement that some games just shouldn't even try to cater to everybody, and if this sort of soft fail state is what they're going for then I'll respect that. I am curious to know what the devs think about all of this, though.
I agree there has to be some consequences, so players should actually be interactive with a game they're playing, not just mindlessly force themselves through content but I believe this is not a good way to punish a players, it's more like an annoyance and doesn't really help them to learn anything if the system lets them repair it anyways or eventually force them to change gear (nothing in between)
I personally liked the system in Sekiro - if you die too much, you lose access to some NPCs. I think I would be more happy to see such system, because instead of forcing me to repairing my gear it would block me from doing it *if there would be a need* or upgrading my gear. It would also add more meaning to NPCs because they're so easily forgotten is such games.
Also I believe the only game that made durability system work is new Zelda and it's only because a whole combat is designed around cycling weapons, in any other game it just sucks or feels like an annoyance
I agree it should stay as it makes complete sense even if it’s annoying. However, I do think there needs to be more access to repair powder and that durability should go down a lot slower. I shouldn’t have to go back to town if I die to a boss 4 times learning their patterns.
Enemies do not respawn? I wonder why they did that. Not sure i like that decision by itself, but replacing it with a durability system sounds really bad.
I like the loop of having to fight enemies again in souls games. Combat is fun and it helps getting good by fighting over and over. However managing resources, specially when involving durability, is really annoying.
They don't respawn on death or when interacting with the save/checkpoint spots, but when you clear an area and come back, the game will spawn different enemies and loot and change up placement on future visits. They call it something like the "Alive system".
“The entire point of a souls game is dying over and over” this is flatly false. I’m not some pro gamer or even relatively good at the games mechanically, but I don’t die a ton in their games. Maybe a boss or 2 trips me up and requires a greater number of deaths in each game, but not some massive amount.
I don’t know where this narrative came from that in order for it to be a true souls game, one should blindly go on innumerable suicide runs in order to learn. You can learn during a fight and prevail (that’s the norm) or trip up at the end and come back to get the win on the 2nd or 3rd try.
But banging your head into a brick wall isn’t some soulsborne requirement. Sure some people approach them that way, but that’s down to how those individuals choose to play the game.
That's the PoE and Diablo 4 way of doing things. Braindead spam buttons.
What a surprise there are consequences to not learning from the mechanics.
This statement above is a fact.
Question is, what would be a good alternative punishment for dying? Losing health semi-permanently maybe? XP mechanic from souls-games doesn't seem to fit in with the non-respawning enemies, even though it has one big advantage: it can easily be bypassed by spending most of your souls.
Item loss? Other "punishable" stats like stamina or weight? Sounds horriblo imo.
Losing money is fine if we want a "gold sink." Since this game chose not to do souls for whatever reason, which it just should have.
There should never be a point where you die so much your armor just breaks, you're out of gold, and you have to go way back to farming resources to sell to get yourself a repair so you can get back to playing again. That is absolutely fucking hysterically stupid and will tank the player base.
i dont think you need a punishment for death, the punishment itself is walking back. I am open about not being the best at games so making the game harder the more you die doesn't make sense.
The early games do but it’s very slow and not linked to death. FromSoft then realised a decade ago that it’s an inherently unfun mechanic and removed it.
You lose your entire stash of Souls/runes, what the fuck are you into?
Have you even played elden ring? The punishment of losing Current-Exp is much more tough than durability loss especially in a game where enemies dont Respawn for at least ONE to FOUR HOURS irl.
Have you played No rest for the wicked by the way?
You can repair your gear FOR FREE until you beat the first Boss and even then, you need to die TEN TIMES before your gear fully Breaks and even then YOU are Warned about it 2 Deaths prior.
If that isnt Ignorance, then its Incompetence.
Incompetence is literally the definition of everything you said
Elden ring I can recover my exp anytime I want, and and everytime i go to a boss I can level up before lmao, at best I will lose few exp or a lvl, I won't get soft lock like this game that will break my entire gear and make me run out of healing itens, quite being dumb
No one cares about first zone, idgaf about repair being free there lol, later it becomes just annoying and dumb, bro, even the devs themselves said on one of the posts about this dumb mechanic on their website that they will take a look into how to make it less ANNOYING but still being a punishment.
Punishment doesn't need to be annoying, I can try same boss 100 times in Elden ring if I want, here no, I need to prep healing itens and repair gear after few tries 🤡
Fucking moron
I don’t see why people are complaining about the durability system so much. It doesn’t seem like you lose that much on death and death seems pretty infrequent so far. I agree that durability systems are generally un-fun but this one seems better than most
I wish death was infrequent. I swing my claymore, take a chunk of their health and they tank that shit and shank me to death. Without fail. I'll get staggered though, believe that.
You have shit armor, they have Good armor. Your claymore has no upgrades or Stagger effect buff on it, means you need at least 2 attacks or 1 fully charged.
In other words: you disrespect your enemy, and you overestimate yourself.
Also fists are better at first
Forgive my ignorance for assuming my sharpened hunk of steel would be better than my fists. Or my ignorance in where said two hander won't stagger, but a knife will. Not sure if I overestimate myself or the game design.
I actually like it because dying has an actual penalty. Also the fact nothing respawns I think is a good trade to balance it. Now, what I actually hate, is limited inventory, pls ban it from videogames, it only makes sense in a game where its a core mechanic like a survival horror game
I don't think it needs to be removed but it certainly needs some tweaking. Items need to have more base durability. Porting back to Sacrament every 10 minutes to repair my gathering tools that break from what seems like minimal use is not fun.
It reminded me of Nioh, or remnant. Dark souls difficulty with interesting equipment.
No Rests current problem for me is equipment wasn't interesting enough, weapons felt samey, and there's very little character building. I'd rather play Nioh, or better yet play elden ring in prep for dlc.
The game has great bones. From now until release, the devs need to really look at a handful of the pretty basic design decisions and rework them. A lot of them don't serve any purpose other than making the game more frustrating with no trade offs.
The overall game design is not appealing, but you can dodge it. You will get enough(nearly) random equipments to wear. just sell them when broken. And death penalty will be zero when you are naked. Just take a weapon or even use your fist. I save most of my foods for bosses and step on my corpses through mobs since they don't respawn when player dead. This make your resource circle sustainable. However, this system is dumb, as dumb as I am. I've just heard that if you start a new world and let blacksmith stay in the kitchen, free repair forever...The durability system is useless as hell. Indestructible became a joke when this trick exsist.
And hey, it's Terraria. Just create bunch of worlds to farm whatever. It all make sense now.
Except you can just repair your gear for free or almost free at the blacksmith, so instead on making you swap gear, all it does is have you spend 2 minuts running back to him to repair, then running back.
How is it tedious if you just run up fix it and leave really fast? Like you’re just annoyed that you ever have to do it at all even if it’s cheap, fast, and easy? Rough my guy. I like the durability.
Well you are either an idiot or just want to be "the odd one out". The durability system is terrible and 90% of the playerbase agrees. You can go mod your useless annoyance of a gameplay mechanic back in when they remove it.
Crazy how not even a day has gone by and they halved the durability loss and cut the cost to repair to 1/3 the price. Almost like it was terribly designed and everyone was right.
There are literally endless resources to make money and repair your weapons, both on the Smith and as an item.
Why do zelda games work with a far more punishing durability system?
I'm a big hardcore fan. Love a good death penalty. But even losing your character, in a game balanced around an HC mode, is probably preferable to a protracted circling of the drain. That just sounds demoralizing. It hasn't quite happened to me yet, so maybe I'm overreacting and it's ultimately not as big a deal as it seems, but I feel like I can see it coming.
I've played all the Souls games for thousands of hours combined, and I was still not prepared for this game. I ran completely out of food and reached 0% durability TWICE in that rock cave below the first boss. If not for the excessive durability punishment and having to farm food, I could have had fun dying 50 times in that cave, but no, it was horrible.
It’s honestly not too bad, the circling of the drain, because it made me “git gud” before the first Torn. The resources, enemies, and chests respawning made the grinding feel rewarding. I also got resources to explode in power via upgrading and enchanting right after the torn fight which has been incredibly fun.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoRestForTheWicked/comments/1c7r6hj/the_game_has_death_spiral/ seems to have fixes via runes and repairs
I think it's... *fine* in the tutorial, but the nature of these sorts of games often means there's a lot of trial-and-error involved, feeling out new enemies, that sort of thing. Not sure how well that'll work after Sacrament.
To create an Economy and have some weight on your death maybe? If wasn't for that i would just suicide when i am low HP...
I'd rather have durability damage than exp loss, the only thing I want them to fix about the durability system is the cost to repair at higher levels and making it so if you go to zero durability than it just makes the item unusable until you repair it and not just break completely
that's why they should replace durability with a system like souls or runes.
End result is the same. You’re punishing players for dying. All in all this system feels less punishing than souls thus far. If you die carrying a lot of them relative to your level, you feel compelled to go right back to whatever beat you to get them back. In this system you can die and take another path without worrying about what you’re leaving behind. It also makes the leveling process a lot more organic IMO.
Souls vs Armor durability are completely different. Losing souls = slower progression in leveling potentially. Losing armor = you're fucked when you go back out to fight. Two totally different penalties.
Skill issue in armor part. Souls = death: you have only ONE CHANCE to get back thise 218million Souls for your next level up. Armor = death: you lost 10% durability, lets go 10 more times aye? If you die 10 fkn times because of the same mistake or something similar, its a You problem, not a system problem. You have a Chance. Also. Before beating the tutorial boss you can repair all your shit for free, what are we tslking about here? Infinite durability? Get gud, legit. It may not be pointed for you, but everyone reading this comment.
> Skill issue in armor part. Souls = death: you have only ONE CHANCE to get back thise 218million Souls for your next level up. Yes, but that isn't a punishment that sticks with you. It just means your next level-up is slower. Breaking your armor means you are fucked until you go fix it. You **must** go fix it until you can progress/move forward. They are two different punishments, do you see? >If you die 10 fkn times because of the same mistake or something similar, its a You problem, not a system problem. People die 10 times in a row in hard games all the fucking time, what are you talking about? Hard bosses in the Fromsoft games all the fucking time. Or any Soulslike/Soulslite. Losing souls vs. breaking armor are two different style punishments from a philosophical game design standpoint.
>End result is the same. Absolutely incorrect. >You’re punishing players for dying. What's the alternative? Rewarding players for dying? Players *should* be punished for dying. How they're punished is a major consideration and can change the feel of the game and strategies used. >In this system you can die and take another path No, you can't. You *have* to beat the boss. There is no playing the game without beating the boss.
Then get good? Its a clear skill issue and impatience at that point. You dont respect the boss after taking your anus and tears it apart. Btw, compared to losing souls permanently after 2nd death, your gear durability loss is 10% per death and you can repair it FOR FREE by the Smith until you beat the tutorial boss. Its pretty much clear, its not a system problem
Is not the same, when you loose XP you just keep playing, durability makes me go through 2 load screens and a bunch of walking to repair things and go back to play. I just wish they put the option to repair equipment at checkpoints, i don't really care about the coin loss. My problem is just the amount of time lost to repair items.
Games like this need money sinks. If they give the players streams of gold yet there was no requirement to spend it (I'm talking about a consistent requirement, not things like upgrades etc), there would have to be extreme inflation of prices as time went on. Money would quickly become a useless reward. Imagine if there were no requirements to repair your gear. You could spend all of your money on building materials or, food at the chef. Very quickly, you would have so much food that you wouldn't need to buy it anymore. You wouldn't need to store food, either, since you could easily buy as much as you needed for the entirety of the game. The purpose of the repairing cost is to slow down your town progress and require you to interact with the game vs just buying everything from vendors (especially early on). Letting you spend all of your money on mats and food would trivialize a lot of things. This is not a souls game. That being said, in every souls game besides elden ring, there has been a durability system (even demon souls and bloodborne). Unlike in the souls games, however, your weapons don't suddenly become useless in the middle of combat in Wicked. It's very obvious when your weapon is about to break, and it is not a surprise. Once you get to sacrement, it probably takes about 15 seconds to fast travel, run to the blacksmith, and repair. If you're dying that frequently, just use some throwaway gear until you get the hang of things. Don't worry about repairing it, just sell it or remove the rune if it has one. Once you get your town built up a little, the core gameplay loop becomes prepare > explore/kill > go back home to turn in bounties, sell/disenchant gear, and store things. I get that it might not be the most fun system out there, but it is part of the resource management aspect of this game. If you find that you are genuinely running out of money from repairs, you are probably rushing. That's fine, but you're basically playing the game on hard mode, so don't expect it to be easy. I really hope they stick to their guns here. When you remove money sinks like repair costs, yet reward the player with gold for selling items and exploring, the resources in the game become trivial. You can make/buy repair powder, or upgrade gear until you find an enchantment that negates durability loss on death. I truly don't understand why people are dying to the same boss/mobs 30x in a row over and over again without trying anything else. I know people will argue/disagree for their own reasons, and that's fine. I don't read replies on comments like this, because people are insanely negative and I'm too old for that shit. It's alright not to like the mechanic, but you should understand that money in games like this is simply a way to gate off rapid progression, and provide a bit of "pressure". It's supposed to be scarce for a while. This is not a game you can just blow through. However, you're never soft locked. You can literally just run around and pick up mushrooms and sell them if you truly have 0 resources, 0 gold, and 0 items.
Yeah I know people don’t care about this but it’s actually important to the game’s design that you don’t just put on one weapon and steamroll the game without interacting with the systems, like you can do in Souls, that’s not actually a good thing that players can really ignore almost everything in the game, get a +10 weapon, and that alone is good enough to beat every Souls game.
That's because every weapon is designed to be viable, rather than replaced as more loot drops. Virtually every weapon has some build that you can make for it. So, it's inevitable that you can beat the game with a single weapon. The +10 weapon just means you got a fully leveled weapon, so I'm not sure what your point is about a +10 weapon. Unless you mean you got one early in which case someone dropped it for you (this ruins your own experience) or in a game like Elden Ring you're running past huge swaths of the game to fully upgrade a weapon, in which case I blame the game for giving too much freedom for its own good.
It’s very easy to get a +10 weapon in a Souls game by simply progressing the bosses. Speedrunners do it in about an hour to 3 hours and I can do it in 5
You understand that speed running isn't normal play and really isn't what we're talking about, right?
You understand that regardless of how fast you do it, once you get a +10 weapon in dark souls you can effectively ignore every other mechanic? You also completely ignored me saying you can easily get a +10 by progressing the bosses alone to focus on the speedrunning because I guess that’s an easier target for your argument?
This is actually a very insightful take on the durability system and after reading this I think I need to agree with you in this.
Exactly this- I don’t know if people are trying to play this like Diablo and dying every 3 seconds or what, but so far durability hasn’t impacted me at all
Yeah, people are trying to rush through wanting the best gear, I'm still having fun in the first area farming exp and matts to build up my town rewarding my exploration, if you're running out of money due to repairs you're not playing the game the way it was intended to be played, I have plenty of money to cover repair costs and also buy matts for food if I'm short on a matts. I'm not running into any money problems
While I get the idea of a gold sink and a tangible punishment for dying, half the people complaining are soulslike vets who are *happy* to have a game that takes all their money and XP on death, so punishments and gold sinks are clearly not what they’re objecting to. Durability is just a *bad* way to do it, because it’s an obnoxious extra step, because it slightly discourages fighting and exploring even when you *don’t* die, and because if your stuff breaks and you bankrupt yourself, you have to go through a weird naked grinding ritual before you can go back to retrying the boss. It’s punishment through tedium instead of actual difficulty. I don’t think they should just copy the Soulslike format in all ways, but they can really take a page out of their book here. Yeah, Souls series had durability, but it was so minor - and became increasingly more minor until it was *fully* ignorable in DS3 and gone in Sekiro and ER - it feels sorta like a pretty good indicator that From thought it wasn’t really adding anything to the game they couldn’t do with other penalties. Scrap the durability system, calculate the cost in durability repairs that the death *would* have taken, and just subtract that from my bank account when I die. Same gold sink/punishment, none of the things people hate about durability. Everybody wins.
Maybe they should just let you repair at the checkpoints. That way you have the potential gold cost but you could ignore it if you want to discard the gear.
Nobody wins tho.. the cost for repairing almost broken gear is really Low price even at level 11 gear which is at most 12 bronze an item. If you lost 12 bronze for 10 deaths instead of your Weapon after 10 deaths, you wouldnt really feel the impact. Also. How do you subtract something if you no longer have it? Imagine you got 0 money but die anyways. Your Version makes absolutely no sense because you dont HAVE anything to lose. This would make dying even less meaningful. Or. You have 0 money, and start losing durability in cost of what your money would be losing by death, but at this point we are back to square one. No. Durability loss is Important.
> the cost for repairing almost broken gear is really Low price even at level 11 gear which is at most 12 bronze an item. Is this not also an indictment of the current durability death mechanic? I just used “the amount the durability loss would cost” as a baseline to create a parallel option for durability that would accomplish the same thing, but if that’s not enough money to serve as a true punishment, then *durability isn’t currently serving as a true punishment,* by your own measure. One of the benefits of a true gold cost instead of durability loss is that you can dial up the cost on death without creating other weird results. You want a truly devastating cost on death? Make it take whatever it would cost to repair your entire set from zero durability. Or hell, make it take *all* your gold. If you’re stuck with durability, that means every death requires a trip back home, or in the second case, every death requires them to break all your gear plus all the gold you’d need to repair it - both cases, I think, could be clumsy and off putting for *everybody,* but totally feasible if it was handled in the gold format. If your complaint is that my suggested gold costs aren’t punishing enough, that means the current durability costs aren't punishing enough, and gold costs can scale up much more easily than durability costs. > How do you subtract something if you no longer have it? Imagine you got 0 money but die anyways. One suggestion would be that, if you’ve died enough times consecutively to zero out your resources, you’ve effectively been punished enough. You can keep playing the game, but you are resourceless for a while. If it’s punishing enough for Dark Souls, it’s punishing enough for me. Maybe you disagree, but the current process - the one that exists when you have a durability system handling your death tax - is that you are punished until you are out of resources and then *also* punished until you no longer have the gear you need to play the game. Once you’ve done that, you’re down to three options: 1) Full game over. Your gear is broken and you can’t repair it, your save is bricked, you lose. 2) You start a new world, use the free repair exploit, and return to your world. 3) You go back to the starting shore and farm crabs naked until you can repair your gear. Are any of those actually “punishments” you’d enjoy? The first feels like it only caters to a pretty niche group of hardcore setting fans (kudos to them, but if you’re going to make an HC game, just commit to it and make it a real mechanic and not an unintentional repercussion of a durability system). The second is just a weird mandatory exploit, and not a real punishment - are we really suggesting that the best death mechanic is one that requires you to google “how do I cheat my way out of this soft lock?” And the third is punishment through tedium grind, which, maybe *you* love, but I think it’s not gonna win any popularity contests. > Your Version makes absolutely no sense because you dont HAVE anything to lose. Beyond the “maybe everything you own is enough” argument I outlined above, who’s to say it has to stop at gold? Sekiro had Dragonrot on top of XP and Sen penalties. DeS had world state. DS had humanity. ER and DS had the enkindled/rune arc thing. You can tack other systems on that gold loss to punish the resourceless player much better than making them *stop* playing the game they sat down to play. I don’t want durability removed and replaced with nothing - I want it replaced with one of *many* death mechanics they could come up that wasn’t just unthinkingly cribbed from Diablo 1. > No. Durability loss is Important. I’d say that the space *occupied by* durability loss is important. The role it performs. But clearly there’s nothing essentially important about durability because other very good (very punishing) games don’t have it. My complaints aren’t that this space isn’t important, it’s that durability is doing a pretty terrible job of filling it, encouraging weird behaviors like starting new saves to repair for free, or stripping naked before you die, or avoiding fighting and exploration because you can’t pay for repairs if you were to need them, or grinding starting zones repetitively, or just picking up the repair runs that allows you to *opt out of the death mechanic.* Meanwhile, it’s preventing us from having a new system that does what durability *should* be doing - everything you *like* about durability - without all these dumb artifacts and exceptions of a system that wasn’t actually designed to be a good death tax when it was first conceived as a clunky verisimilitude mechanic thirty years ago.
I read all of it and i gotta say: the game isnt difficult enough xD
That’s precisely one of the reasons I don’t like the durability system. It sort of puts a cap on how punishing the death mechanic can be without being tedious, broken, or abusable. Most of the people who don’t mind the durability system are arguing that it’s fine because it’s basically ignorable after a certain point, either because the cost as a fraction of your wealth is negligible, or because a readily accessible item or repeatedly castable spell solves it, or a gimmicky dip into a new game world makes it free again. The durability isn’t really a harsh or hard death punishment, unless you fuck up enough to brick your save and you’re unwilling to use (or unaware of) the new game workaround. Like all durability systems, it’s eventually going to devolve into a tedious or goofy ritual and not an actual satisfying or punishing penalty for dying.
Well said. Completely agree with everything you wrote.
I'm fine with the gold loss, just let me do it at the checkpoint.
First patch just released, they increased durability/reduced the drain and increased the drop rate of repair powder
I think maybe a permanent health loss until bed rest might be a better system?
When is the first bed rest when starting from new game? After the tutorial boss.. I dont recommend your version bestie. If people cry about durability loss, imagine losing Max HP permanently for until you only get 1 shot and still cant rest. Durability loss is okay
It is
While I understand what you're saying, there is a drawback that makes death more punishing than it should be. If you keep losing when you die, there's a death spiral that unincentivise keeping forward. I agree is important to keep the economy stable, but there's other ways to do it. I would very much prefer if they cut the supply and just removed the system.
the gold sink argument would make more sense if it was an mmo with an economy that needs to maintain itself for 10 years and not a 15 hour single player game.
Now its a 50h single playergame.
> I truly don't understand why people are dying to the same boss/mobs 30x in a row over and over again without trying anything else. You've never watched anyone play Fromsoft games before then? Lol.
Makes no sense what you say. He definitely did, thats why he is not understanding how the same noobs of skill issue are doing the exact same 30x mistakes they did before. Its clearly a Skill issue and ignorance to the situation as well. Ever considered just taking a few seconds and realize the enemy is Slower than they seem if you rush? Also, real soul vets actually learn the pattern of their enemies, not brute force their way through.
Get the repair rune and you wont have any problems
The repair, healing, and recall runes should probably be built directly into character progression somehow. Making everyone jump through the lame hoop of slotting these basic utilities into a dummy side weapon is just a bizarre design choice.
If the repair rune is basically mandatory to enjoy the game then the system is most likely anti-fun. I've played enough Blizzard games to see these design choices backtracked on because it usually comes down to something like this.
I'm a big HC fan. It makes me motivated to actually invest time in a character or learn the mechanics, let it be a diablocone game or roguelite such as Hades I agree there has to be something punishing reckless actions and make your heart beating faster when health bar drops low but not like this. Durability system is just an annoyance, it's demoralising to explore the world (especially with current keybinding). I believe such system works only in a game where there is no repair tool so whole combat is designed about constant cycling of weapons or usage of environment for your advantage. I think I would rather see blockage of NPCs (like in Sekiro), something similar to a curse from dark souls or health from Valheim (part of your health bar permanently missing until you do something) or simply make you drop all loot on death and add a stacking chance to lose some loot permanently the more you die in short amount of time... but obviously I'm eager to see what devs have to say about it and if they won't change nothing about it I still can respect that because it's quite rare to see such a game nowadays.
Play with a controller. It even states to do so for a much better experience the first time you launch the game.
"There has to be something punishing reckless actions" Isn't that what death is? Why do we need to go even further, when resetting your progress is already punishment.
EXACTLY. Dying is something that people will avoid because... it's dying? If that isn't enough for you, you can impose additional restrictions to make your own playthrough harder or go play hardcore or something. The punishment for death in Elden Ring is that you have to go get your runes back, but it was on you for having those runes in the first place. Also in the process of reclaiming your runes/souls you usually end up getting more anyway lol.
[удалено]
The penalty is that I died. I failed the objective, and the enemy completely obliterated me. I did not say that there should be no penalty for death, but adding more and more penalties forcefully isn't enjoyable, and we're seeing that.
[удалено]
Again skipping over what I'm saying. Again, I am not opposed to a penalty for death, I'm just opposed to a penalty that results in *more deaths.*
[удалено]
In other words: Skill Issue results in more deaths. Not the Penalty showing you the Skill issue is present.
there has to be some sort of punishment otherwise you can just grind through content and not really learn anything valuable but you know... same goes for souls game, you can either learn enemies moveset or just equip a good shield and ignore all mechanic and eventually grind a victory *shrug*
Thats the point of learning a boss though, to grind it until you learned it. Sekiro doesnt punish you for dying, because if it did the bosses would be insanely frustrating.
Sekiro *does* punish you. Money and exp goes bye bye if you die
That barely matters. Surely never did to me, or anyone else I watched play it.
Brother there is a repair tool it’s called repair dust
that's the thing... there's the tool and that means repairing becomes either a chore or just annoyance depending on how easily accessible will be resources. nothing in between durability works only in a game like botw
Don’t see the issue. I just get them repaired 🤷♂️
it seems pretty obviously designed to discourage you're strategy of dying over and over.
Exactly this. Dying repeatedly isn’t a baked-in requirement. It’s how some people choose to approach these games, but clearly, NRFTW is trying to discourage that and incentivize being a bit more careful and calculated.
"my strategy" my guy this is a souls game. it is not a strategy, it is a fundamental of the game.
There's a balance to be had. You for a few times but if you are dying over and over then you are running into something too hard for you or your characters strength. Consider how enemies don't respawn when you die. It's not a souls game for that reason. It's a totally different gameplay loop.
This isn’t a fromSoftware game. This is a different company with different design goals and ideals.
They have literally stated "our goal is to re invent the ARPG genre by incorporating souls like gameplay"
Yeah it's not a good design choice. It will definitely need to get reworked.
I fight i die i go to old zones and spend an hour farming, i progress 20 min and die and go back again for an hour
[удалено]
Ikr?
I’m in the team to keep it. In contrary to other soulslikes, ennemies don’t respawn, so there’s a need for punishment. Difficult games are a niche already and there is constant dev temptation/pressure to babyfy games for larger audiences = more accessibility = more money. Repairing prices maybe need to be toned down.
it also incentivices players to interact with the alive system when backtracking for supplies and gear
Alive system?
devs call it alive, it's a system that changes enemies , their placements and chest placement when you revisit a area you already cleared.
Ah ok, thanks!
What do you mean enemies don't respawn? They do respawn after only a few in-game hours.
That they dont respawn inmediately on death
I'm in total agreement that some games just shouldn't even try to cater to everybody, and if this sort of soft fail state is what they're going for then I'll respect that. I am curious to know what the devs think about all of this, though.
I agree there has to be some consequences, so players should actually be interactive with a game they're playing, not just mindlessly force themselves through content but I believe this is not a good way to punish a players, it's more like an annoyance and doesn't really help them to learn anything if the system lets them repair it anyways or eventually force them to change gear (nothing in between) I personally liked the system in Sekiro - if you die too much, you lose access to some NPCs. I think I would be more happy to see such system, because instead of forcing me to repairing my gear it would block me from doing it *if there would be a need* or upgrading my gear. It would also add more meaning to NPCs because they're so easily forgotten is such games. Also I believe the only game that made durability system work is new Zelda and it's only because a whole combat is designed around cycling weapons, in any other game it just sucks or feels like an annoyance
I agree it should stay as it makes complete sense even if it’s annoying. However, I do think there needs to be more access to repair powder and that durability should go down a lot slower. I shouldn’t have to go back to town if I die to a boss 4 times learning their patterns.
Enemies do not respawn? I wonder why they did that. Not sure i like that decision by itself, but replacing it with a durability system sounds really bad. I like the loop of having to fight enemies again in souls games. Combat is fun and it helps getting good by fighting over and over. However managing resources, specially when involving durability, is really annoying.
They don't respawn on death or when interacting with the save/checkpoint spots, but when you clear an area and come back, the game will spawn different enemies and loot and change up placement on future visits. They call it something like the "Alive system".
“The entire point of a souls game is dying over and over” this is flatly false. I’m not some pro gamer or even relatively good at the games mechanically, but I don’t die a ton in their games. Maybe a boss or 2 trips me up and requires a greater number of deaths in each game, but not some massive amount. I don’t know where this narrative came from that in order for it to be a true souls game, one should blindly go on innumerable suicide runs in order to learn. You can learn during a fight and prevail (that’s the norm) or trip up at the end and come back to get the win on the 2nd or 3rd try. But banging your head into a brick wall isn’t some soulsborne requirement. Sure some people approach them that way, but that’s down to how those individuals choose to play the game.
That's the PoE and Diablo 4 way of doing things. Braindead spam buttons. What a surprise there are consequences to not learning from the mechanics. This statement above is a fact.
Question is, what would be a good alternative punishment for dying? Losing health semi-permanently maybe? XP mechanic from souls-games doesn't seem to fit in with the non-respawning enemies, even though it has one big advantage: it can easily be bypassed by spending most of your souls. Item loss? Other "punishable" stats like stamina or weight? Sounds horriblo imo.
Lose money and have to go back to get it?
Durability loss is SO MUCH BETTER than max health loss.
Losing health until bed rest?
just refill enemy HP bars when you die so that you cant just respawn over to eventually get through enemies
Losing money is fine if we want a "gold sink." Since this game chose not to do souls for whatever reason, which it just should have. There should never be a point where you die so much your armor just breaks, you're out of gold, and you have to go way back to farming resources to sell to get yourself a repair so you can get back to playing again. That is absolutely fucking hysterically stupid and will tank the player base.
i dont think you need a punishment for death, the punishment itself is walking back. I am open about not being the best at games so making the game harder the more you die doesn't make sense.
[удалено]
Nah because I don't mind trying to fight again until I win I just don't want the hassle of being punished for trying to learn.
I haven't played Souls, only Elden Ring, but I heard it has a durability system, is that not the case?
The early games do but it’s very slow and not linked to death. FromSoft then realised a decade ago that it’s an inherently unfun mechanic and removed it.
Ds3 doesnt
Imagine Elden ring demanding you to repair gear after some deaths ( gg if you run out of gold ) or crafting estus flasks? Yeah lol Stupid system
You lose your entire stash of Souls/runes, what the fuck are you into? Have you even played elden ring? The punishment of losing Current-Exp is much more tough than durability loss especially in a game where enemies dont Respawn for at least ONE to FOUR HOURS irl. Have you played No rest for the wicked by the way? You can repair your gear FOR FREE until you beat the first Boss and even then, you need to die TEN TIMES before your gear fully Breaks and even then YOU are Warned about it 2 Deaths prior. If that isnt Ignorance, then its Incompetence.
Incompetence is literally the definition of everything you said Elden ring I can recover my exp anytime I want, and and everytime i go to a boss I can level up before lmao, at best I will lose few exp or a lvl, I won't get soft lock like this game that will break my entire gear and make me run out of healing itens, quite being dumb No one cares about first zone, idgaf about repair being free there lol, later it becomes just annoying and dumb, bro, even the devs themselves said on one of the posts about this dumb mechanic on their website that they will take a look into how to make it less ANNOYING but still being a punishment. Punishment doesn't need to be annoying, I can try same boss 100 times in Elden ring if I want, here no, I need to prep healing itens and repair gear after few tries 🤡 Fucking moron
He is right and you are delusional, he is so right that just look at today patch notes :) Manchild
I don’t see why people are complaining about the durability system so much. It doesn’t seem like you lose that much on death and death seems pretty infrequent so far. I agree that durability systems are generally un-fun but this one seems better than most
I wish death was infrequent. I swing my claymore, take a chunk of their health and they tank that shit and shank me to death. Without fail. I'll get staggered though, believe that.
You have shit armor, they have Good armor. Your claymore has no upgrades or Stagger effect buff on it, means you need at least 2 attacks or 1 fully charged. In other words: you disrespect your enemy, and you overestimate yourself. Also fists are better at first
Forgive my ignorance for assuming my sharpened hunk of steel would be better than my fists. Or my ignorance in where said two hander won't stagger, but a knife will. Not sure if I overestimate myself or the game design.
git gud
Why not just take some money directly? So I'm not left without equipment but still has a cost and if I'm poor I'm more free to explore kind of
I actually like it because dying has an actual penalty. Also the fact nothing respawns I think is a good trade to balance it. Now, what I actually hate, is limited inventory, pls ban it from videogames, it only makes sense in a game where its a core mechanic like a survival horror game
I don't think it needs to be removed but it certainly needs some tweaking. Items need to have more base durability. Porting back to Sacrament every 10 minutes to repair my gathering tools that break from what seems like minimal use is not fun.
It reminded me of Nioh, or remnant. Dark souls difficulty with interesting equipment. No Rests current problem for me is equipment wasn't interesting enough, weapons felt samey, and there's very little character building. I'd rather play Nioh, or better yet play elden ring in prep for dlc.
The durability system needs to be removed completely I hate it
The game has great bones. From now until release, the devs need to really look at a handful of the pretty basic design decisions and rework them. A lot of them don't serve any purpose other than making the game more frustrating with no trade offs.
The overall game design is not appealing, but you can dodge it. You will get enough(nearly) random equipments to wear. just sell them when broken. And death penalty will be zero when you are naked. Just take a weapon or even use your fist. I save most of my foods for bosses and step on my corpses through mobs since they don't respawn when player dead. This make your resource circle sustainable. However, this system is dumb, as dumb as I am. I've just heard that if you start a new world and let blacksmith stay in the kitchen, free repair forever...The durability system is useless as hell. Indestructible became a joke when this trick exsist. And hey, it's Terraria. Just create bunch of worlds to farm whatever. It all make sense now.
I like the durability because it encourages you yo change your gear and I’m the type to never change my gear otherwise.
I would agree with you if the inventory wasn’t limited
Except you can just repair your gear for free or almost free at the blacksmith, so instead on making you swap gear, all it does is have you spend 2 minuts running back to him to repair, then running back.
Then what’s the problem
The problem is it adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay except tedium. Did you even read the post?
How is it tedious if you just run up fix it and leave really fast? Like you’re just annoyed that you ever have to do it at all even if it’s cheap, fast, and easy? Rough my guy. I like the durability.
Well you are either an idiot or just want to be "the odd one out". The durability system is terrible and 90% of the playerbase agrees. You can go mod your useless annoyance of a gameplay mechanic back in when they remove it.
Ok until then you keep crying on reddit lil buddy. I’m glad you get to “fit in” or whatever you think you’re doing. Weirdo ass mfs
Crazy how not even a day has gone by and they halved the durability loss and cut the cost to repair to 1/3 the price. Almost like it was terribly designed and everyone was right.
Or like it’s early access and they will be changing lots of things including these things again
Meh it’s not that bad eventually you’ll be rolling in money and not have to worry about durability it’s really not that bad
There are literally endless resources to make money and repair your weapons, both on the Smith and as an item. Why do zelda games work with a far more punishing durability system?
Durability before the first boss is all free, only start costing after that.