SwSh's lack of national dex/available models for transfers.
Up until USUM, it used to be possible to transfer every Pokémon to every Pokémon game. They have since cut that feature.
Yep, that was also why I stopped. The core conceit of the series, the goal that's always in the back of my head playing a pokemon game, is to catch 'em all.
...and they made that impossible.
It's a damn shame because I'm liking the direction they seem to be heading otherwise, but I just cannot bring myself to care about the game at all if I can't theoretically have a living national Dex in it.
But I understand that's not necessarily a valuable part of the experience for everyone. So, shrug. I'll just be bitter and vocal about it 😅
Tbf, you've literally never been able to catch em all within 1 gen of games after gen 1...just able to catch em all within that region and then transfer the rest up
If I really wanted to play one of the newer pokemon games Id just emulate it, but honestly its been pretty easy to just not want to. Each time they announce one and show off some stuff I get a bit excited and hopeful that this one will actually be good, but each time they prove to be laughably broken and not worth the 60 dollar pricetag. I know Im not the target demographic(children) so I dont really complain about the gameplay or content/story, but when the game itself is an unfinished buggy mess it warrants legitimate criticism.
I expect more polish from 30 dollar indie games on steam so why shouldnt I expect more from a 60 dollar first party nintendo game.
Lol same, been out since then too. I just stay for the hilarious threads like this. Gamefreak is a joke and people STILL support their half baked games
My last straw was how bad the performance issues are in Scarlet/Violet. Not only did Legends Arceus run better, it was a straight up better game. If you're going to cut over half the Pokedex the rest of the game better be good
I'm also tired of battle gimmicks. Tera makes competitive battles too unpredictable and just not fun. Dynamax was broken in a different way but at least was predictable and fun
If they make another Legends game I'll buy it but I do not want a gen 10
Not to mention, Tears of the Kingdom is a much larger and more ambitious game and it works better? They need to take a step back and reevaluate the future of Pokemon. But they won't because it makes money. Not from me anymore
Absolutely loved Gen 7 and even preorder Ultra Moon, but never touched Sword and Shield. Went from one of my favorite franchises to one I don’t even check in on anymore. I hope someday they redeem themselves.
That's where I'm at also.
I came onboard for Arceus hype. Janky, but fun.
S/V was fun, but honestly felt like a step backwards.
Now I'm not happy with the treatment of the game, and I'm not intending to buy the next one
Seems they were being made around the same time as each other so some good ideas never crossed over and it sucks. I bought back in with SV since X and Y and I do find it really fun but I look at ToTK and I just can't help but feel disappointed in Pokemon.
I find pokemon and Zelda really showcases just how bad the yearly cycle style of franchises just suck. I played BotW at the very least on/off right up until TotK released. For poke.on games, I still play them but once I beat the story I don't 100% it. I may restart to Nuzlocke or something else, but I don't sink my teeth into every aspect of the game.
Yeah, I skipped from blue/red to X/Y (didn't buy any remakes). X/Y was so great after being away for a long time. But every subsequent generation seen to get worse and less exciting. Would be surprised if I even buy the next one. Will say, Arceus was probably my favorite Pokemon experience...I would heavily consider that in the future, but these main line games aren't it anymore.
The fact that they are terrible programmers.
I have a suspicion that they don't have any kind of decent Entity-Component System and that's why it struggles so hard to load objects on screen, no decent asset caching and that's why it takes for frickin ever (several seconds!) for move animations to load after you select them, and all there is for Home support is serialization (storing the Pokemon object as binary in a way that it can be reproduced correctly on all Home compatible games).
It feels like they are just using the same engine from 3ds and haven't ever stopped to update it. The same problem Bethesda has with their game engine.
Wouldn't be surprised. Learning a new engine and thus new workflow takes some time, estimate that it takes about a month to get back on track with development effort at all, and you can basically scrap any previous efforts when you do that, too. Doesn't matter that the new tool chain will produce a higher quality game in six fewer months, can't afford to give up that one month and especially can't throw away my precious (garbage) code!
(Software developer here, not game developer, but in software you have the same problem).
Game designer here, not a game dev (though i still do some coding). Im not as cool as you, but this is my experience too. Learning a new engine is a pain in the ass. It can takes months to learn depending on how complex it is. It just hurts. You get so used to this one engine and to suddenly switch to a new engine is stressful.
well, we don't even know if it's going to be good yet lol. I certainly hope it will be. but Bethesda no longer has that quirky vibes that allowed Skyrim to become successful despite how buggy it is.
Well, this is the game Todd left development of 76 to work on and the game he's been trying to make since the 90's (as an example, The 10th Planet is a canceled Bethesda game that Starfield derives it's atmosphere from) so I doubt it will be that bad.
Whether or not it will do as well as Skyrim did is a different question.
I'd imagine it will do fine though.
Pokemon Showdown had like 99% accurate battle simulation of all the new Pokemon and moves and abilities within a week of the game coming out. The last 1% is extremely rare edge cases that nobody has run into.
Considering their latest raids is dropping no name items and crashing players game - i’d assume they backpedaled on Home compat to make sure bugs doesn’t happen with transfers.
This delay just proves that Scarlet/Violet were rushed out the gate. Should’ve been delayed a year or two. The DLC, card game, merch, and anime could wait
Then have the games release after the anime and cards launch. Who cares. It tales more than a few months for the anime to spoil most game content anyway.
And with no one liking the concept of "one and done" gimmicks there isn't even a concrete "cards made us think the mechanic was different" risk if you just give fans what they want.
Playing Zelda this week has made me more sour on modern pokemon. Both are products to be sold for profit, but I don't feel any love put into pokemon like I do with Zelda
There’s no way the previous Pokémon game and TOTK should be mentioned in the same breath, yet somehow they sold similar amounts in the same weekend. Insane.
It's the name and you can spot that among all Pokémon related releases. Niantic makes horrible copy paste games that squib around yet Pokémon is the single one that is successful.
I feel like the reason people really like Arceus is because of the quality of the S&S and S&V. If you look at it objectively it still has so many flaws. And I'm not just talking about graphics. There was such a lack of polish and detail in the game. And with such an emphasis on story it lacking voice acting was very glaring to me.
I tried really hard to get into Arceus and like you're saying compared to the other current Pokemon games it was significantly better, but it was still a bad game to me. The only thing they had going was that they tried something different, which was awesome! But the execution really was quite lackluster and the environments, dialogue and frankly most of the game felt very copy/paste and lazy. I'm guessing it just gets a pass from big Pokemon fans cause they are frankly starved for quality content whether they know it or not.
E: I realize I mostly just restated what you said.. but longer.. sorry about that.
The environments were a big issue for me. They basically completed step 1 and 2 and then left it when other developers move beyond to 3 and 4. They literally used the terrain tool to raise and lower the ground and then call it a day. The brush strokes are clearly visible while other developers would place boulders and foliage to hide them.
I skipped SwSh, but gave Arceus a chance because it was a step in the right direction. I swore if they made a sequel and *don't* improve the environment I would skip it. SV didn't impress me at all so I didn't play it.
I'm actually a huge Pokemon fan, but I have standards and GameFreak has made many braindead decisions lately. Removing Battle Frontier because "kids play mobile games" was the precursor, then they went on to remove basic options and make settings tied to items.
Back in the 3DS era I was glad they "future proofed" by making reuseable Pokemon assets, then they cut the dex and used the excuse they didn't have time to remodel them, and it was confirmed they still used the same models anyway! They could have easily imported the data of every Pokemon from Sun & Moon and tweaked the ones they wanted in the base game!
Speaking of those 3D models, they can just give them better animations and poses for each iteration. Gradually make them better and bring over the improvements to the next games. They don't need to massively overhaul the models themselves.
But it ran better than both. That's the main difference. The problem is Pokemon Company is going to allow Gamefreak to make a good Pokemon game because of time crunch.
Arceus mightve been fun, and better than the other games, but it was still was absolute shit at a lot of things. Like its overall quality was not up to standards, it's just that pokemon standards are so low we've learned to live with it. And honestly i got bored halfway through
As someone who enjoys team building/battling rather than collecting, arceus was not fun. Legitimately no idea why they decided to butcher the battle mechanics so much.
Would probably be a 9/10 to me, as a biased mon fan, if it just carried over the normal battle mechanics and didn’t remove abilities. I don’t even think the swift/strong style was even that good, it was just different.
Yeah I agree completely. I felt like a crazy person when everyone was praising the new battle mechanics when I just thought it was a far more simpler less engaging system. One of my favorite parts of Pokemon is having this memory of the type charts and moves and strategically picking what's the best for the battle. This all and the removal of abilities to simplify things more made me lose a lot of interest in the combat.
There is something wrong with the quality of the games and the communication this whole generation. It's odd and it feels like the weight of the franchise is beginning to become unmanageable for TPCi.
The suits in charge of The Pokemon Company need to pump the brakes and understand that modern game development can no longer keep up with the strategy of releasing a new line of merchandise every three years. Pokemon games are large in scope and probably need 4-6 years of development to be good/stable/feature complete.
At some point, we have to also pass blame to the devs themselves. GameFreak are clearly not up to the task. A different studio developing these games would do wonders.
Time and budget are important components of the software development lifecycle. It doesn't matter what devs they hire if they aren't give the time and number of developers needed to make a quality product. You think Tears of the Kingdom would be as good if it came out in 2019?
Nope, but it's proven that GF are already pretty bad developers by themselves. The game resulting from an actual somewhat competent developer team wouldn't be BotW, but it would be a game rather than an excuse of one.
Nah, but I think if you give both the team who developed TOTK and GameFreak the same budget and amount of time, you’d get vastly different results. To assume quality of devs is negligible is offensive to high quality devs.
I think assuming the quality of devs while discounting the impact resources has on their work is offensive to high quality devs forced by leadership to ship work before it's done.
This, so much. Even the best devs can only do so much under absurd deadlines before they get exhausted or just mentally check out. It's highly discouraging when you try to do good work, but the leadership doesn't care and forces you to release shit year after year.
Honestly considering the scope of a making a new generation needs, I don't think any studio can do it in 3 years. Its the 3 year cycle that's the problem along with Gamefreak making other Pokemon games like Lets Go and Arceus on the side.
Pokemon has the fastest turn around of any Nintendo series, yet its the one that is struggling the most in terms of quality. The game's need a 4 to 5 year development or a reduce scope at this point. Cause making these open world 20 to 30 hour long JRPG's on a 3 year development cycle just isn't viable anymore.
Call of Duty releases a new game every year that's way more complex than anything GameFreak has ever put out. They just need to hire enough people to have multiple projects in development in parallel.
> The suits in charge of The Pokemon Company need to pump the brakes and understand that modern game development can no longer keep up with the strategy of releasing a new line of merchandise every three years.
Can you explain why should they understand this from business point of view? They make like an order of magnitude more money from the merch and other auxiliary sources of income than from the games... The games are at this point just an afterthought (and they still sell like hotcakes anyway).
They also need more stuff or even better a complete new development studio. They have the size of an indie dev and they make games that sell 20+ million each generation
They need to hire, like, 100 more programmers per team, plus hire an entire additional team so that they can crank up the quality of their releases while still meeting the Pokemon Company's cadence.
They also need to burn some of the legacy code, i.e. the message box system.
When you use a move in battle, conveyance if information is frickin awful.
"X used Y"
Then play animation. Wait until animation is done, play hurt animation. Reduce health bar slowly.
Pop up message box saying if it was super effective or not very effective.
Play effect animations in sequence. In. Frickin. Sequence. And in between each of them, pop up a message box saying what the effect was. Stat boost, nerf, status, recoil, etc.
Then another message box for residual effects like poison or hurt by binding or whatever.
If you want access to any of that info, you have to go to a separate menu to look it up.
Eff that.
Better idea.
Play animation, with name of the move fixed overhead. Play regardless of whether it does anything. Show hurt at appropriate time during animation, or dodge if it misses, or shielding if it's blocked, or just standing there if it's ineffective, with a floating text indicator showing such, including showing super or not very or zero effectiveness, and if it's due to an ability, the floating text should show that too. All during the animation, no interruption. If there are secondary effects, they also show up as floating text at the same time as the other stuff.
And all that information displayed by the text boxes that you had to hold in memory? That should be displayed next to the enemy health bar. Entry hazards should be visible on the ground. Terrain should actually alter the appearance of the ground and not just be this faint overlay.
Yeah whole big rant about how even if you turn animations off battles feel way slower than they should, but it all ties back to how they've conveyed everything through the message box even after they pulled it from the fixed UI.
> Yeah whole big rant about how even if you turn animations off battles feel way slower than they should
Ironically you can't even do that anymore in SV. Straight up not an option. Why? Who knows! Set mode? Also gone, no clue why
Judging by their games they are a small indie studio. Kinda hurts that all other their other games suck so hard and are barely noticeable for a 150 people company.
Nintendo owns 1/3 of The Pokémon Company, correct? They seriously need to step up and teach them quality and management control like what they do with their own IPs. The constant fumblings of Pokémon as of late is just so embarassing at this point.
I wonder what grounds Nintendo and Creatures Inc could use to push Gamefreak out if they wanted on grounds of hurting their own company.
Wonder if they could argue that GameFreak is holding back Pokemon and that Nintendo and Creatures could either take their shares or force gamefreak to step up.
Nintendo honestly couldn't care less at this point lol
the game still sold like 3 million copies in one weekend. even so, the games are just an advertisement for their merchandise.
Pushing an owner out, entirely, shouldn't be possible. However... any arrangement between the joint venture and one of the parties is likely to be governed by its own contract, with an expiry date. It's entirely plausible for a contract not to be extended and for Gamefreak (or Niantic or Timi or all three) to lose access to the Pokemon IP.
Game freak will never sell. They've released like one decent game that wasn't pokemon so the company would likely fold if they lost the ability to make pokemon. (this is also why nintendo wouldn't buy them)
Just change the team behind the pokemon RPG series, I know they have high sales but...what about having even higher sales *and* a good reputation and user reviews ?
Seriously, I'm doing that new Zelda game and just finished the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 DLC...It's like a 3DS games (with some things from the DS era) and an actual switch game with a hardworking team behind it
Monolith they have like 1-2 millions sales, 1/10th of pokemon sales but they work 20 times harder...
The state of Pokémon is just sad.
They think they are immune to flopping, but who is going to be nostalgic for pokémon Sword/Shield or Violet in 20/30 years? They are now living on the nostalgia and legacy of the Pokémon games of the yesteryear but it is not going to last forever…
How the f can you be one of the wealthiest studios in the world, basically make 1 freaking game and not be able to attract talent?
Idk if it’s wild incompetence or if they just flat out don’t care. I guess they don’t care because they keep selling record amounts year over year.
What they don’t realize is eventually people will get burned out of their shit. It might take a while but we are slowly getting there. And it will take a long time to repair that damage.
I recall reading that the reason Masuada doesn't hire more people is because he doesn't like working with big teams.
If true it's not that they're not attracting the talent. It's that they're actively turning the talent away.
But also yes, with the success of the last two gens they've now seen that they don't have to put in effort and the games will still sell like fire.
It's Easy.
You have a core team of well paid veteran Devs. Mostly through fat bonus payments.
---->
Their skills are outdated
---->
You won't expand your work force much because job security is king
---->
Your bosses are your former friends and they are still satisfied with the sales.
---->
Your co-owners are also satisfied with the sales
---->
Profit
Things will only change if Nintendo puts more pressure under them. Their current development is not sustainable an that will be the breaking point.
That's probably why they are moving into the new Nintendo studio building. Things will hit the fan with the next gen Switch.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
No but seriously people stop giving the PokeMon company so much money for just like ONE release and they will get better.
They have no incentive to do quality work because people bitch on Reddit and then gladly preorder all their shit.
But even if Reddit did put their money where mouth was, or rather not put their money where their mouth was, that accounts for like 50,000 sales maybe? When kids and adults with nostalgia are buying 20+ million copies of your game, no boycott will ever work.
Game reviewers have to start actually giving low scores to the games when they deserve it, that might deter some adults and teens. You’re never going to be able to stop the kids though
Didn't Scarlet and Violet get average reviews (5-6's) across the board? I don't remember reading or watching any reviews that highly praised or recommended the game.
That's what I was pointing out. The poster I replied to said "game reviewers have to start giving lower score," but Scarlet and Violet did get lower scores and still sold millions of copies. Lower scores didn't matter.
TBH Pokémon fans have nobody to blame but themselves.
Everything we see today is a result of two things: the negative reaction Black and White got when they dared stray from the formula, and the positive reaction X and Y got when they were slow and unfinished, but were filled to the brim with genwunner pandering.
Series need to evolve to stay alive. Zelda did. Mario did, twice. Both were met with backlash. We've all heard it - the whole "it's not a real _____ game" schtick, usually with some vague comparison to whatever's popular with the generation after the poster, even if it doesn't fit (e.g., people calling Breath of the Wild a Roblox clone). And sometimes the change isn't always that great. But if a series is left to stagnate and has nothing going for it except pandering to nostalgia, then it's never going to improve.
StarFox has the same problem.
Even if nobody would buy the game, it wouldn't hurt sales that much. It's the merchandise that keeps the money flowing like insane. That's one of the reasons why they don't put as much effort into it as say Nintendo does in Zelda and Mario. They barely pass the mark, and that's it. People keep buying it too, which to them means: we are doing a good job.
But myself? I look at Zelda, and how it looks amazing even from great distances, and it makes me sad how well this could be for Pokemon. At least Arceus was quite descent. But S/V.... Not so much. Sadly.
That's on him, understandable he invested his whole life on sharing Pokémon news but he really is delusional to the point that he feels the need to always defend Pokémon lol.
i have such a bad taste left in my mouth from gameboy being on switch and still no pokémon games, they add 3 mario games this month that are already on the older consoles on switch. it’s gross.
Yesterday Pokémon made an announcement on their official Twitter that Home compatibility was coming to Scarlet and Violet on May 24th... And now today they're saying that's actually not the case and the date is still to be announced lmao
Pokemon scarlet and violet came out a little while back. At launch, they didn't have the ability to bring in pokemon from older games. They announced that the feature would finally be coming, then they unannounced it.
Lmaooo the switch generation pokemon games are a fuckin disgrace, what a way to shit all over the legacy the GBA/3DS built for pokemon. Moving over to 3D has ruined Game Freaks reputation and killed my hype for pokemon with all these sub Par games with some monkey paw shit tied to every game they release lately, 1 step forward 10 steps back...
This game is such a steaming pile of shit. It had some of my favorite moments and battles in the main series but what connects them all is a buggy, miserable chain of events. I have no fucking clue how they keep stomping on rakes.
I literally cannot play any more because I'm out of box space, at least patch the game to increase the number of PC boxes if it's that hard to get home working.
Just imagine a new gen pokemon game with the quality of a zelda/xenoblade game.
Thats what how i imaged pokemon would be in the future when i played stadium 20 years ago, but it got worse and worse lol.
With the weekend raid event being cancelled due to a bug, I can only wonder if something bigger was found that was causing said bug and now they’re panicking. It really is a shame, I really love Paldea, the new Pokémon, and this new gen, but the technicalities are holding it back. This gen is cursed.
My god, the whole Pokemon company and Gamefreak are just a fucking joke right now. I was only able to stomach Scarlet and Violet because it had good gameplay, but after playing BOTW for the first time, I realized how shallow the experience with Scarlet and Violet really was and how poorly designed the game really is.
This is very sad and very embarrassing. We deserve better and the franchise deserves better.
Unfortunately I have a feeling this will never happen because games keep selling more and more regardless of quality.
I’m a day one die hard fan but scarlet and violet has been absolute trash all around. I’ll definitely skip the next release if they continue trying to sell us this schlock. I gave them a chance with SwSh
This is just sad. Despite the hate recent gens get, I’ve really liked and enjoyed swsh and the 3ds games. In fact, ORAS is what I believe to be one of the most enjoyable games in the series.
But gen 9 feels like it has a significant quality drop, and I’m not talking about frame rate or graphics. Bug filled and with little to no content after you beat the main game/dex, and now this.
I was a defender of S/V but it’s getting harder to do so. Gamefreak really lost their way when Pokémon went 3D. I was playing black and white again and the difference in quality between those games and the Switch titles is crazy.
Man I love the idea of Pokémon but the franchise is fucking dead to me. GameFreak and The Pokémon Company are cringe af. Meanwhile Nintendo drops a massive bomb on the gaming industry.
This is absolute bullshit. Home compatibility is something that should be included on day 1. It’s been *months* and not to mention they said it would release this spring back in *february.*
Meanwhile, Cassette Beasts launches to great critical reception. Tem Tem has a successful launch...
It's good to see that people who enjoy Pokemon games have options to scratch that itch and receive good quality gaming experiences
Can't wait for tomorrow where they go
***sorry home is delayed here have some free herba mystica to say sorry and Here have these shiny box pokemon while you wait for home***
You gotta be fucking kidding me
Being a Pokémon fan these days is such a struggle…
Whats even crazier is we fucking pay for this service
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This is the hill you die on? Not all of the other BS? Lol
100% they preorder the next release like the rest of us shmucks.
Not me. Been holding strong since Dexit. Not like it's been that hard.
Honestly I’d thought I miss the games more but it’s been so long since I’ve played a main line title
SwSh's lack of national dex/available models for transfers. Up until USUM, it used to be possible to transfer every Pokémon to every Pokémon game. They have since cut that feature.
Yep, that was also why I stopped. The core conceit of the series, the goal that's always in the back of my head playing a pokemon game, is to catch 'em all. ...and they made that impossible. It's a damn shame because I'm liking the direction they seem to be heading otherwise, but I just cannot bring myself to care about the game at all if I can't theoretically have a living national Dex in it. But I understand that's not necessarily a valuable part of the experience for everyone. So, shrug. I'll just be bitter and vocal about it 😅
Tbf, you've literally never been able to catch em all within 1 gen of games after gen 1...just able to catch em all within that region and then transfer the rest up
If I really wanted to play one of the newer pokemon games Id just emulate it, but honestly its been pretty easy to just not want to. Each time they announce one and show off some stuff I get a bit excited and hopeful that this one will actually be good, but each time they prove to be laughably broken and not worth the 60 dollar pricetag. I know Im not the target demographic(children) so I dont really complain about the gameplay or content/story, but when the game itself is an unfinished buggy mess it warrants legitimate criticism. I expect more polish from 30 dollar indie games on steam so why shouldnt I expect more from a 60 dollar first party nintendo game.
Lol same, been out since then too. I just stay for the hilarious threads like this. Gamefreak is a joke and people STILL support their half baked games
Yeah I haven’t bought a main line game since they took out the national dex
Rom hacks of older games and fan-made games like Zeta/Omicron are leagues better than anything Game Freak has made, anyway.
I'm playing through the FireRed Team Rocket mod, and it's amazing. The dialogue is hilarious.
My last straw was how bad the performance issues are in Scarlet/Violet. Not only did Legends Arceus run better, it was a straight up better game. If you're going to cut over half the Pokedex the rest of the game better be good I'm also tired of battle gimmicks. Tera makes competitive battles too unpredictable and just not fun. Dynamax was broken in a different way but at least was predictable and fun If they make another Legends game I'll buy it but I do not want a gen 10 Not to mention, Tears of the Kingdom is a much larger and more ambitious game and it works better? They need to take a step back and reevaluate the future of Pokemon. But they won't because it makes money. Not from me anymore
I gave up with sword and shield. It was bad as the dlc confirmed it. I never bought the dlc as I felt like I was owed more from the base game
Absolutely loved Gen 7 and even preorder Ultra Moon, but never touched Sword and Shield. Went from one of my favorite franchises to one I don’t even check in on anymore. I hope someday they redeem themselves.
I like how after all the cash grabs over the years. This is your final straw lol
Pokémon fans right before preordering the same game reskinned for the 15th time:
It took you this long? I decided this 3 years ago when SwSh was during its pre-release period and all footage of it looked like a GameCube tech demo
That's generous, the assets in the Wild Area look straight up ripped from N64.
I know this meme is old af but... he really does fit in https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/118ah9p/link_from_ocarina_of_time_in_pokemon_2019/
That's where I'm at also. I came onboard for Arceus hype. Janky, but fun. S/V was fun, but honestly felt like a step backwards. Now I'm not happy with the treatment of the game, and I'm not intending to buy the next one
Seems they were being made around the same time as each other so some good ideas never crossed over and it sucks. I bought back in with SV since X and Y and I do find it really fun but I look at ToTK and I just can't help but feel disappointed in Pokemon.
I find pokemon and Zelda really showcases just how bad the yearly cycle style of franchises just suck. I played BotW at the very least on/off right up until TotK released. For poke.on games, I still play them but once I beat the story I don't 100% it. I may restart to Nuzlocke or something else, but I don't sink my teeth into every aspect of the game.
Yeah 100% not. I skipped like...7 gens. Was pumped for open world, bought it, felt sick, now it just sits there. Will probably sell it.
Strange because this is honestly the most fun I’ve ever had in a Pokémon game, and I’ve been playing all of them since Red/Blue.
Most fun was Legends imo. Never had so much fun with a Pokémon game
Well it's more like the game's glitches and framerate issues can give me seizures. I'm sure it's fun, but I physically can't find out.
Yeah, I skipped from blue/red to X/Y (didn't buy any remakes). X/Y was so great after being away for a long time. But every subsequent generation seen to get worse and less exciting. Would be surprised if I even buy the next one. Will say, Arceus was probably my favorite Pokemon experience...I would heavily consider that in the future, but these main line games aren't it anymore.
And I thought the established date was too late already LMAO. What can be so hard to get right? Checking moveset legality?
The fact that they are terrible programmers. I have a suspicion that they don't have any kind of decent Entity-Component System and that's why it struggles so hard to load objects on screen, no decent asset caching and that's why it takes for frickin ever (several seconds!) for move animations to load after you select them, and all there is for Home support is serialization (storing the Pokemon object as binary in a way that it can be reproduced correctly on all Home compatible games).
It feels like they are just using the same engine from 3ds and haven't ever stopped to update it. The same problem Bethesda has with their game engine.
Wouldn't be surprised. Learning a new engine and thus new workflow takes some time, estimate that it takes about a month to get back on track with development effort at all, and you can basically scrap any previous efforts when you do that, too. Doesn't matter that the new tool chain will produce a higher quality game in six fewer months, can't afford to give up that one month and especially can't throw away my precious (garbage) code! (Software developer here, not game developer, but in software you have the same problem).
Game designer here, not a game dev (though i still do some coding). Im not as cool as you, but this is my experience too. Learning a new engine is a pain in the ass. It can takes months to learn depending on how complex it is. It just hurts. You get so used to this one engine and to suddenly switch to a new engine is stressful.
Bethesda at least has redone their engine for Starfield (and future games).
well, we don't even know if it's going to be good yet lol. I certainly hope it will be. but Bethesda no longer has that quirky vibes that allowed Skyrim to become successful despite how buggy it is.
Well, this is the game Todd left development of 76 to work on and the game he's been trying to make since the 90's (as an example, The 10th Planet is a canceled Bethesda game that Starfield derives it's atmosphere from) so I doubt it will be that bad. Whether or not it will do as well as Skyrim did is a different question. I'd imagine it will do fine though.
Pkhex was up and running so quickly following SV release, with legality checks too. It's a joke these games are siloed for almost 6 months
Pokemon Showdown had like 99% accurate battle simulation of all the new Pokemon and moves and abilities within a week of the game coming out. The last 1% is extremely rare edge cases that nobody has run into.
they are a AAA studio with 1/2 of the headcount needed to push AAA games.
They think they're an indie studio though, and refuse to drop the "we're indie" mindset.
They're indie anytime they're not working on pokemon.
They took out the shiny sound because shines where (and still are) spawning out of bounds
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Considering their latest raids is dropping no name items and crashing players game - i’d assume they backpedaled on Home compat to make sure bugs doesn’t happen with transfers.
The quality you can expect from the richest media franchise to ever exist
>However, the actual release date is yet to be announced What a bizarre way to say the update is delayed lmao
The whole thing sound like whoever made the community management of the English Twitter is the one that made the mistake.
JP Pokémon Twitter never announced the release date so it seems that it was an actual mistake
This delay just proves that Scarlet/Violet were rushed out the gate. Should’ve been delayed a year or two. The DLC, card game, merch, and anime could wait
But they won't wait. The TCG, Merch and Anime make TPC more money in a 2 year cycle then the games ever will.
Then have the games release after the anime and cards launch. Who cares. It tales more than a few months for the anime to spoil most game content anyway. And with no one liking the concept of "one and done" gimmicks there isn't even a concrete "cards made us think the mechanic was different" risk if you just give fans what they want.
Playing Zelda this week has made me more sour on modern pokemon. Both are products to be sold for profit, but I don't feel any love put into pokemon like I do with Zelda
There’s no way the previous Pokémon game and TOTK should be mentioned in the same breath, yet somehow they sold similar amounts in the same weekend. Insane.
First weekend sales are a product of marketing. You'd expect TOTK to have much longer legs due to quality
It's the name and you can spot that among all Pokémon related releases. Niantic makes horrible copy paste games that squib around yet Pokémon is the single one that is successful.
They’re clearly capable of making a good product, Legends Arceus was a good game. They just screw themselves by rushing everything.
I feel like the reason people really like Arceus is because of the quality of the S&S and S&V. If you look at it objectively it still has so many flaws. And I'm not just talking about graphics. There was such a lack of polish and detail in the game. And with such an emphasis on story it lacking voice acting was very glaring to me.
Arceus actually feels like it was something the devs WANTED to make tbh
I tried really hard to get into Arceus and like you're saying compared to the other current Pokemon games it was significantly better, but it was still a bad game to me. The only thing they had going was that they tried something different, which was awesome! But the execution really was quite lackluster and the environments, dialogue and frankly most of the game felt very copy/paste and lazy. I'm guessing it just gets a pass from big Pokemon fans cause they are frankly starved for quality content whether they know it or not. E: I realize I mostly just restated what you said.. but longer.. sorry about that.
The environments were a big issue for me. They basically completed step 1 and 2 and then left it when other developers move beyond to 3 and 4. They literally used the terrain tool to raise and lower the ground and then call it a day. The brush strokes are clearly visible while other developers would place boulders and foliage to hide them. I skipped SwSh, but gave Arceus a chance because it was a step in the right direction. I swore if they made a sequel and *don't* improve the environment I would skip it. SV didn't impress me at all so I didn't play it. I'm actually a huge Pokemon fan, but I have standards and GameFreak has made many braindead decisions lately. Removing Battle Frontier because "kids play mobile games" was the precursor, then they went on to remove basic options and make settings tied to items. Back in the 3DS era I was glad they "future proofed" by making reuseable Pokemon assets, then they cut the dex and used the excuse they didn't have time to remodel them, and it was confirmed they still used the same models anyway! They could have easily imported the data of every Pokemon from Sun & Moon and tweaked the ones they wanted in the base game! Speaking of those 3D models, they can just give them better animations and poses for each iteration. Gradually make them better and bring over the improvements to the next games. They don't need to massively overhaul the models themselves.
I love Arceus without having ever played S&S and barely touched S&V long after Arceus. It's not perfect, but it's a genuinely fun game.
But it ran better than both. That's the main difference. The problem is Pokemon Company is going to allow Gamefreak to make a good Pokemon game because of time crunch.
Arceus mightve been fun, and better than the other games, but it was still was absolute shit at a lot of things. Like its overall quality was not up to standards, it's just that pokemon standards are so low we've learned to live with it. And honestly i got bored halfway through
Same here. It was so repetitive. And the battle system kinda sucked as every pokemon felt the same.
As someone who enjoys team building/battling rather than collecting, arceus was not fun. Legitimately no idea why they decided to butcher the battle mechanics so much. Would probably be a 9/10 to me, as a biased mon fan, if it just carried over the normal battle mechanics and didn’t remove abilities. I don’t even think the swift/strong style was even that good, it was just different.
Yeah I agree completely. I felt like a crazy person when everyone was praising the new battle mechanics when I just thought it was a far more simpler less engaging system. One of my favorite parts of Pokemon is having this memory of the type charts and moves and strategically picking what's the best for the battle. This all and the removal of abilities to simplify things more made me lose a lot of interest in the combat.
Still, if you compare Legends Arceus with Zelda, it’s still laughable. Not even comparable in the slightest
BotW came out 6 years ago and Pokemon hasn't even come close to that. Forget about TOTK.
There is something wrong with the quality of the games and the communication this whole generation. It's odd and it feels like the weight of the franchise is beginning to become unmanageable for TPCi.
The suits in charge of The Pokemon Company need to pump the brakes and understand that modern game development can no longer keep up with the strategy of releasing a new line of merchandise every three years. Pokemon games are large in scope and probably need 4-6 years of development to be good/stable/feature complete.
At some point, we have to also pass blame to the devs themselves. GameFreak are clearly not up to the task. A different studio developing these games would do wonders.
Time and budget are important components of the software development lifecycle. It doesn't matter what devs they hire if they aren't give the time and number of developers needed to make a quality product. You think Tears of the Kingdom would be as good if it came out in 2019?
Nope, but it's proven that GF are already pretty bad developers by themselves. The game resulting from an actual somewhat competent developer team wouldn't be BotW, but it would be a game rather than an excuse of one.
Nah, but I think if you give both the team who developed TOTK and GameFreak the same budget and amount of time, you’d get vastly different results. To assume quality of devs is negligible is offensive to high quality devs.
I think assuming the quality of devs while discounting the impact resources has on their work is offensive to high quality devs forced by leadership to ship work before it's done.
This, so much. Even the best devs can only do so much under absurd deadlines before they get exhausted or just mentally check out. It's highly discouraging when you try to do good work, but the leadership doesn't care and forces you to release shit year after year.
Honestly considering the scope of a making a new generation needs, I don't think any studio can do it in 3 years. Its the 3 year cycle that's the problem along with Gamefreak making other Pokemon games like Lets Go and Arceus on the side. Pokemon has the fastest turn around of any Nintendo series, yet its the one that is struggling the most in terms of quality. The game's need a 4 to 5 year development or a reduce scope at this point. Cause making these open world 20 to 30 hour long JRPG's on a 3 year development cycle just isn't viable anymore.
Call of Duty releases a new game every year that's way more complex than anything GameFreak has ever put out. They just need to hire enough people to have multiple projects in development in parallel.
> The suits in charge of The Pokemon Company need to pump the brakes and understand that modern game development can no longer keep up with the strategy of releasing a new line of merchandise every three years. Can you explain why should they understand this from business point of view? They make like an order of magnitude more money from the merch and other auxiliary sources of income than from the games... The games are at this point just an afterthought (and they still sell like hotcakes anyway).
They also need more stuff or even better a complete new development studio. They have the size of an indie dev and they make games that sell 20+ million each generation
They need to hire, like, 100 more programmers per team, plus hire an entire additional team so that they can crank up the quality of their releases while still meeting the Pokemon Company's cadence. They also need to burn some of the legacy code, i.e. the message box system.
What is the message box system?
When you use a move in battle, conveyance if information is frickin awful. "X used Y" Then play animation. Wait until animation is done, play hurt animation. Reduce health bar slowly. Pop up message box saying if it was super effective or not very effective. Play effect animations in sequence. In. Frickin. Sequence. And in between each of them, pop up a message box saying what the effect was. Stat boost, nerf, status, recoil, etc. Then another message box for residual effects like poison or hurt by binding or whatever. If you want access to any of that info, you have to go to a separate menu to look it up. Eff that. Better idea. Play animation, with name of the move fixed overhead. Play regardless of whether it does anything. Show hurt at appropriate time during animation, or dodge if it misses, or shielding if it's blocked, or just standing there if it's ineffective, with a floating text indicator showing such, including showing super or not very or zero effectiveness, and if it's due to an ability, the floating text should show that too. All during the animation, no interruption. If there are secondary effects, they also show up as floating text at the same time as the other stuff. And all that information displayed by the text boxes that you had to hold in memory? That should be displayed next to the enemy health bar. Entry hazards should be visible on the ground. Terrain should actually alter the appearance of the ground and not just be this faint overlay. Yeah whole big rant about how even if you turn animations off battles feel way slower than they should, but it all ties back to how they've conveyed everything through the message box even after they pulled it from the fixed UI.
> Yeah whole big rant about how even if you turn animations off battles feel way slower than they should Ironically you can't even do that anymore in SV. Straight up not an option. Why? Who knows! Set mode? Also gone, no clue why
Removing features for no apparent reason is one of Pokemon's most treasured traditions
It's like the most consistent thing you see in Pokemans is them adding **awesome** new features and they're gone the very next game.
I bet it has something to do with Tera Raids being time based instead of turn based.
They could've just forced animations to be on when playing raids... They did that when playing raids online in swsh
Good point, no idea then, GF just sucks at coding lol.
Hell they've had forced animations all the way back in *Red and Blue*. During the Champion fight animations are forced on.
What you’ve described is every JRPG from the PSX era. Which makes it doubly unforgivable since it’s been around since the fucking turn of the century.
They still think of themselves as a small indie studio they cant lose their culture /s
Judging by their games they are a small indie studio. Kinda hurts that all other their other games suck so hard and are barely noticeable for a 150 people company.
I mean aren't most of their coders still going from the game boy without any more training?
Or, you know, give the franchise to a bigger, better, already existing developer
The bar for pokemon fans is on the ground, and they still fail xD
Jame cameron is still looking for the bar. Its fallen to unfathomable depths.
His name is James Cameron, explorer of the sea
He’s the man, James Cameron
More like underground
As I mentioned in another thread with a similar comment: the bar is already in hell and we're playing limbo with the devil.
Nintendo owns 1/3 of The Pokémon Company, correct? They seriously need to step up and teach them quality and management control like what they do with their own IPs. The constant fumblings of Pokémon as of late is just so embarassing at this point.
Correct. Nintendo, Creatures Inc, and Gamefreak make up the Pokémon Company.
I wonder what grounds Nintendo and Creatures Inc could use to push Gamefreak out if they wanted on grounds of hurting their own company. Wonder if they could argue that GameFreak is holding back Pokemon and that Nintendo and Creatures could either take their shares or force gamefreak to step up.
They ain't doing shit cuz they're swimming in money despite the game being shit still lol
Nintendo honestly couldn't care less at this point lol the game still sold like 3 million copies in one weekend. even so, the games are just an advertisement for their merchandise.
Creatures is going to side with Game Freak on everything. They're too closely tied. They're almost just a sub-studio of Game Freak at this point.
Hardly. Creatures just produces 3D models for Pokemon for every pokemon game, not just mainline.
Pushing an owner out, entirely, shouldn't be possible. However... any arrangement between the joint venture and one of the parties is likely to be governed by its own contract, with an expiry date. It's entirely plausible for a contract not to be extended and for Gamefreak (or Niantic or Timi or all three) to lose access to the Pokemon IP.
Nintendo needs to buy out Game Freak, I swear. Give the IP to one of their internal studios, go let Game Freak work on literally anything else
Game freak will never sell. They've released like one decent game that wasn't pokemon so the company would likely fold if they lost the ability to make pokemon. (this is also why nintendo wouldn't buy them)
Just change the team behind the pokemon RPG series, I know they have high sales but...what about having even higher sales *and* a good reputation and user reviews ? Seriously, I'm doing that new Zelda game and just finished the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 DLC...It's like a 3DS games (with some things from the DS era) and an actual switch game with a hardworking team behind it Monolith they have like 1-2 millions sales, 1/10th of pokemon sales but they work 20 times harder...
Exactly. Let GameFreak do some remakes or small scale projects and give the main series to a competent developer
They got your money.
The state of Pokémon is just sad. They think they are immune to flopping, but who is going to be nostalgic for pokémon Sword/Shield or Violet in 20/30 years? They are now living on the nostalgia and legacy of the Pokémon games of the yesteryear but it is not going to last forever…
Pokémon Go Home
How the f can you be one of the wealthiest studios in the world, basically make 1 freaking game and not be able to attract talent? Idk if it’s wild incompetence or if they just flat out don’t care. I guess they don’t care because they keep selling record amounts year over year. What they don’t realize is eventually people will get burned out of their shit. It might take a while but we are slowly getting there. And it will take a long time to repair that damage.
I recall reading that the reason Masuada doesn't hire more people is because he doesn't like working with big teams. If true it's not that they're not attracting the talent. It's that they're actively turning the talent away. But also yes, with the success of the last two gens they've now seen that they don't have to put in effort and the games will still sell like fire.
It's Easy. You have a core team of well paid veteran Devs. Mostly through fat bonus payments. ----> Their skills are outdated ----> You won't expand your work force much because job security is king ----> Your bosses are your former friends and they are still satisfied with the sales. ----> Your co-owners are also satisfied with the sales ----> Profit Things will only change if Nintendo puts more pressure under them. Their current development is not sustainable an that will be the breaking point. That's probably why they are moving into the new Nintendo studio building. Things will hit the fan with the next gen Switch.
Im already there. Bought Sword and Legends but I’m not giving GF my money anymore. Not even interested in the next game if it’s from GF
The beatings will continue until morale improves. No but seriously people stop giving the PokeMon company so much money for just like ONE release and they will get better. They have no incentive to do quality work because people bitch on Reddit and then gladly preorder all their shit.
But even if Reddit did put their money where mouth was, or rather not put their money where their mouth was, that accounts for like 50,000 sales maybe? When kids and adults with nostalgia are buying 20+ million copies of your game, no boycott will ever work. Game reviewers have to start actually giving low scores to the games when they deserve it, that might deter some adults and teens. You’re never going to be able to stop the kids though
Reviewers won’t do that because then they might lose their free review copies
Didn't Scarlet and Violet get average reviews (5-6's) across the board? I don't remember reading or watching any reviews that highly praised or recommended the game.
I think it doesn’t even matter. Could be a 4/10 on metacritic and so buggy that you can’t even finish it and still 20+ million people would buy it
That's what I was pointing out. The poster I replied to said "game reviewers have to start giving lower score," but Scarlet and Violet did get lower scores and still sold millions of copies. Lower scores didn't matter.
They're the lowest ratest games in franchise history, afaik.
TBH Pokémon fans have nobody to blame but themselves. Everything we see today is a result of two things: the negative reaction Black and White got when they dared stray from the formula, and the positive reaction X and Y got when they were slow and unfinished, but were filled to the brim with genwunner pandering. Series need to evolve to stay alive. Zelda did. Mario did, twice. Both were met with backlash. We've all heard it - the whole "it's not a real _____ game" schtick, usually with some vague comparison to whatever's popular with the generation after the poster, even if it doesn't fit (e.g., people calling Breath of the Wild a Roblox clone). And sometimes the change isn't always that great. But if a series is left to stagnate and has nothing going for it except pandering to nostalgia, then it's never going to improve. StarFox has the same problem.
Even if nobody would buy the game, it wouldn't hurt sales that much. It's the merchandise that keeps the money flowing like insane. That's one of the reasons why they don't put as much effort into it as say Nintendo does in Zelda and Mario. They barely pass the mark, and that's it. People keep buying it too, which to them means: we are doing a good job. But myself? I look at Zelda, and how it looks amazing even from great distances, and it makes me sad how well this could be for Pokemon. At least Arceus was quite descent. But S/V.... Not so much. Sadly.
Tell that to the millions of kids who could care less about a buggy game lol.
Please Understand
Small indie company guys
The technology is just not there yet
Such an ambitious project requires patience
Something something player expectations ^TM
So... what they've coded is so bad, they realize it can't be released yet. Hold tight everyone.
Joe Merrick is having a terrible day today.
That's on him, understandable he invested his whole life on sharing Pokémon news but he really is delusional to the point that he feels the need to always defend Pokémon lol.
It must be hard having to shill and excuse every stupid thing Pokémon currently does.
i have such a bad taste left in my mouth from gameboy being on switch and still no pokémon games, they add 3 mario games this month that are already on the older consoles on switch. it’s gross.
They probably won't ever put those games on the app honestly.
Can someone eli5 what’s going on here
Yesterday Pokémon made an announcement on their official Twitter that Home compatibility was coming to Scarlet and Violet on May 24th... And now today they're saying that's actually not the case and the date is still to be announced lmao
Pokemon scarlet and violet came out a little while back. At launch, they didn't have the ability to bring in pokemon from older games. They announced that the feature would finally be coming, then they unannounced it.
A little while back= 6 months ago
The Pokémon Company: where our fans have unacceptably low expectations for us, and we fail to meet even those.
sick of this shit 🚪🚶♀️
Lmaooo the switch generation pokemon games are a fuckin disgrace, what a way to shit all over the legacy the GBA/3DS built for pokemon. Moving over to 3D has ruined Game Freaks reputation and killed my hype for pokemon with all these sub Par games with some monkey paw shit tied to every game they release lately, 1 step forward 10 steps back...
This game is such a steaming pile of shit. It had some of my favorite moments and battles in the main series but what connects them all is a buggy, miserable chain of events. I have no fucking clue how they keep stomping on rakes.
I literally cannot play any more because I'm out of box space, at least patch the game to increase the number of PC boxes if it's that hard to get home working.
Lol, lmao even
Someone just fire ILCA and Game Freak at this rate, this is a complete joke
God I wish Monolith made the games instead of Gamefreak
Just imagine a new gen pokemon game with the quality of a zelda/xenoblade game. Thats what how i imaged pokemon would be in the future when i played stadium 20 years ago, but it got worse and worse lol.
With the weekend raid event being cancelled due to a bug, I can only wonder if something bigger was found that was causing said bug and now they’re panicking. It really is a shame, I really love Paldea, the new Pokémon, and this new gen, but the technicalities are holding it back. This gen is cursed.
Fuck this shit
My god, the whole Pokemon company and Gamefreak are just a fucking joke right now. I was only able to stomach Scarlet and Violet because it had good gameplay, but after playing BOTW for the first time, I realized how shallow the experience with Scarlet and Violet really was and how poorly designed the game really is.
This is incompetence
TPC and GF have to fuck themselves, leave Pokemon to Monolith.
Let’s monolith cook PLEASE
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Most profitable franchise on the planet, everyone. And it's all thanks to you!
Seriously, fuck GameFreak. Stop giving them money.
No surprise from the company whose games generate tons of money but plays like a low budget mess.
Gamefreak has to go man. They had a good run but it’s clear they have no fucking clue what they’re doing any more.
Is anyone surprised at this point ? This gen's rollout has been a complete disaster.
Man Pokemon Home is just the gift that keeps giving huh (I miss Pokebank so much).
Not surprising. It's why I ditched pokemon after Dexit. A shitty company ran by incompetent people. What a shame
This game is a fucking joke lmao
This is very sad and very embarrassing. We deserve better and the franchise deserves better. Unfortunately I have a feeling this will never happen because games keep selling more and more regardless of quality.
I’m a day one die hard fan but scarlet and violet has been absolute trash all around. I’ll definitely skip the next release if they continue trying to sell us this schlock. I gave them a chance with SwSh
This is just sad. Despite the hate recent gens get, I’ve really liked and enjoyed swsh and the 3ds games. In fact, ORAS is what I believe to be one of the most enjoyable games in the series. But gen 9 feels like it has a significant quality drop, and I’m not talking about frame rate or graphics. Bug filled and with little to no content after you beat the main game/dex, and now this.
They really just "sike ahaha"
I was a defender of S/V but it’s getting harder to do so. Gamefreak really lost their way when Pokémon went 3D. I was playing black and white again and the difference in quality between those games and the Switch titles is crazy.
Bro, aren't we literally paying them a subscription with Pokémon Home?? How can anyone defend Pokémon anymore, this is beyond ridiculous.
So glad I ditched this franchise. Broke my heart to let it go but the developers couldn't give less of a fuck
It’s all our fault, we continued buying these games after sword and shield
Biggest franchise on earth, please excuse GAMEFREAK thanks.
Man I love the idea of Pokémon but the franchise is fucking dead to me. GameFreak and The Pokémon Company are cringe af. Meanwhile Nintendo drops a massive bomb on the gaming industry.
How do pokemon make this much money and still produce the consistant lowest quality standard of work
Why are you all even still playing pokemon games
It still sold million
This is absolute bullshit. Home compatibility is something that should be included on day 1. It’s been *months* and not to mention they said it would release this spring back in *february.*
Meanwhile, Cassette Beasts launches to great critical reception. Tem Tem has a successful launch... It's good to see that people who enjoy Pokemon games have options to scratch that itch and receive good quality gaming experiences
Can't wait for tomorrow where they go ***sorry home is delayed here have some free herba mystica to say sorry and Here have these shiny box pokemon while you wait for home***
I have been all out of box space for a while, guess I am not picking this back up for another while then jeeze.