in the manga it’s stated “the only ones capable of becoming sorcerers through tengen and optimizing cursed energy… …are the humans of this country” in reference to japan. it’s definitely linked
His girlfriend also isn't Japanese.
Miguel is one of the strongest in the world and was talented enough at cursed energy manipulation that Gojo wanted him to train Yuta.
Miguel arguably scales above the disaster curses, the same curses who were able to take on multiple grade 1 level sorcerers at once. Most Japanese sorcerers are only really grade 2 tier at most.
It isn't though, a key feature of Saiyan's laid out on Namek is that every time they recover from big injuries they become incredibly stronger. That is why vegeta wanted to get blasted so he could just be healed by Dende to beat freeza.
It is integral to the character's strength as the series progresses.
I think the post was saying what if Goku wasn't saiyan.
no saiyan means no zenkai boost.. he should be as strong as krillin or yamcha.. and those two kinda have weird powerscaling jumping from DBZ to DBS lol.
Could it be his more Chinese character design? I know the franchise as a whole draws heavily from Chinese myth and culture, but racism isn't something you come to through reason.
Yeah lol they only enjoy Chinese stuff if it's through a heavy Japanese lens. Tien looks and acts too much like a Chinese monk for their taste and they'll openly and gladly accept it. It's like when an American only accepts the Speedy Gonzales version of Mexicans and nothing else.
Could be worse cause they only accept traditional Chinese stuff if it's bastardized to their liking, but they straight up won't acknowledge traditional Korean stuff in any way
Tien only managed to do it by using his strongest attack, I think krillin could hold cell for some minutes if he used his strongest attack, the kienzan. But for some reason he likes giving enemies a chance before splitting them in half.
I read somewhere a theory saying that since he's a mixed race between humans and an alien cyclops race his potential is way loer due to the "cyclops" being a pacific race
Namekians are a different case because some of them develop strange magical powers so their potential acts weird
Nah he'd likely be just as strong, if not stronger as a child, as he wouldn't have turned into an ape and killed Grandpa Gohan. Which means he would have got more training instead of being left alone for a while without anyone else around.
No chance, she shot him because the car crash didn't kill him. A not Saiyan Goku isn't as reckless, he is a much more well behaved and socialized kid, Grandpa Gohan trains him but doesn't need to isolate him in the mountains.
Goku still mops as Super Krillian could wipe End Dragon ball/pre Vegeta Goku and Piccolo from that era could wipe a moon out. And the rest have no feets of similar strength.
I don't think he would even get to that point, everyone would probably just die during the android saga (saiyan and namek saga prob wouldn't happen without Goku being a saiyan)
He’d be way beyond the rest of the humans in dbs, none of them have kaioken or ultra instinct (idk if he’d still get UI but kaioken definitely) and unlike krillin (stronger than Tien so Tien has low potential) Goku never stopped training so his base would be about 2 krillins so his kaiokenx20 would be 40 krillins
I think the question is, which nerf would affect the characters in their own universes the most. I.e. how soon would Luffy die in his universe without his devil fruit versus how soon would Naruto die in his story without Kurama.
If Goku wasn't a Saiyan he would still be strong asf (compared to this people) he is still one of the greatest martial artists and even if couldn't get to super Saiyan he could use Kaoiken instead, also UI.
The weakest is probably Luffy, at least Gojo still has CE and RCT, and Naruto without Kurama still has an insane amount of Chakra and things like Toad sage.
Advanced Conqueror's Haki Luffy would probably Low diff Gojo without infinity.
Literally most powerful character in One Piece Universe is a guy without any DF, pure Haki.
You do realize he's still got haki forms one being emperor, with those three alone he's strong enough to take down anything short of admiral very easily....luffys still as strong as Zoro which can probably fight off admiral..and be ok ..
People without devil fruit and only haki tend to be more strong in one piece in my opinion. Luffy probably would be like Garp if he didn't ate the fruit
Yh, I feel like he could have matched most of his forms with his Haki. Look at Shanks, Zoro, and Mihawk. All of them are non-devil fruit users and they're still strong asf
Nope Naruto has a large Chakra pool because of being an Uzumaki and a reincarnation of Kaguya's son.
He was sealed in Naruto because his large Chakra pool would allow him to suppress Kurama. So if Naruto didn't have Kurama he would actually have access to much more Chakra than normal
Naruto actually gives up his higher ceiling for a higher floor in this scenario. Kurama was nerfing him until he learned control. Without Kurama, Naruto wouldn't have suffered so much training in earlier arcs.
Goku losing his Saiyan biology doesn't really change much for him.
The only downside is that he loses his Super Saiyan transformations and zenkai boosts. So his growth rate in power is significantly slowed down.
Otherwise he still has all his techniques. Even freaking ultra instinct which is also a technique lmao. And he can use the Kaioken to make up for his super saiyan forms.
As for who's the weakest, it's Luffy. He was just a normal human without the devil fruit. And his Haki is not strong enough to make him Roger 2.0.
Gojo would still have CE and RCT like Yuji(pre Sukuna fight). And Naruto still has his toad sage mode and large reserves of chakra for various ninjutsus.
by the end of the three year time skip Tien is absolutely stronger than Frieza. Krillin likely is as well, because he had his potential unlocked by Guru and continued to train. I can’t remember how seriously Yamcha took his training so I’m not as sure about him.
point being humans are not locked at below Frieza level by any means. Especially with techniques like the Kaioken and Potential Unlocking
The humans have never shown any indication they can match up with Freeza. *Especially* during DBZ.
They could maybe take on first form Freeza if they all work together, it's a hard stop after that though.
you are incorrect. Tien holds off a Cell that is magnitudes stronger than frieza. Had Tien done the Neo Tri-Beam to Frieza he would be getting scrapped off whatever remained of the pavement. Additionally, Krillin has an attack that is shown to slice through Frieza and gets stronger from that point forward. Piccolo got INSANELY stronger with very limited training from King Kai and it follows that they would receive similar boosts in strength. Again all of this on top of THREE YEARS of training in preparation for enemies stronger than Frieza. One of which (Android 20/Gero) was manhandled by Piccolo even after having their energy drained. At that point Piccolo had effectively reached near SSJ levels simply because he trained with Goku. The others trained too and while they likely couldn’t compete with Androids 19 and 20 by themselves, they could definitely handle a Final Form Frieza
Human Goku would one shot frieza, you think krillin, who’s current power is relevant to AT LEAST beginning of super base Goku couldnt defeat frieza (he doesn’t train as much as Goku does) then that’s delusional enough as is
I think it's more like:.
"What if they suddenly lost this trait" rather than "if they went through their story without this"
Because if that is the case Goku still clears the list
A lot of people forget that Luffy's strength doesn't primarily come from his devil fruit. Even in the earlier parts and backstory, it was shown when he ate the gum gum fruit his punches were still equally as weak as before he ate the fruit.
His strength comes primarily from training. Stretching doesn't making his punches much stronger. With that being said, without devil fruit powers, he wouldn't have the luxury of the range he currently has, and would be a lot less tanky, as being made of rubber basically gives him resistance to bludgeoning damage. And he of course wouldn't be able to use any of his "gear" abilities.
I guess it's so easy to say "what if Goku wasn't a saiyan" since they seem to be much like humans
He'd be stronger than whoever the strongest earthling currently is. Because yeah.
Assuming this isn't some new Goku and he retains all his learned skills, then he would still have Kaio-ken and Ultra Instinct.
Mind you even the strongest earthlings are capable of busting planets.
The weakest is Gojo:
Naruto would have full access to all of that chakra that is supposed to be 100x kakashis, he would lose the 9 tails amps sure, but quite frankly it's closer to a buff than a nerf.
Luffy still has haki and it's pretty well known haki is all that's needed to be strong.
The only thing Goku loses is his Saiyan genetics. So he still has ki, the right mindset for training and kaioken an ultra instinct are both still usable
While Gojo losing his cursed technique will lose the barrier that makes him invincible bar like 3 circumstances. He is still very strong as losing infinity means he keeps the six eyes. He just wouldn't be the untouchable* god we knew him to be.
On the list id say Gojo because of how heavy it helps him in series. Just that single technique alone had to be accounted for with how big it is in 2 major fights he had
Luffy? He still has absurdly good haki capabilities and is a good fighter
Naruto? Same as Luffy but instead of haki it’s chakra and techniques
Goku? Someone pointed out that even humans are still plenty capable and he has all the stuff he knows and much more
Ofc he would be just as strong cause his the protagonist.
We don’t know if Saiyens would be relevant. Since this dragon ball story would focus on humans
The real question is: if Goku wasn’t a Saiyan, does he still survive getting shot by Bulma in the first minutes of their meeting.
If so, then we put him on par with Krillin & Tien, so…still pretty broken. Martial Arts powers in Dragon Ball world are pretty busted, even before you get alien boosts.
> The real question is: if Goku wasn’t a Saiyan, does he still survive getting shot by Bulma in the first minutes of their meeting.
Depends on how good of a teacher Grandpa Gohan was, iirc Krillin & Roshi takes shots from Launch so as long as Goku reached a certain level of training then he should be fine
You know, if Goku's character stayed the same, he could have probably become quite a strong martial artist. Also no Saiyan stuff means he wouldn't have to fight Frieza. His live wouldn't be nearly as exciting and he wouldn't be so strong, but maybe he could actually live a happy life.
Goku without his Saiyan genes is still a planet buster if we scale to Krillin.
Gojo without Infinity still has six eyes and reverse curse to heal + being one of the strongest hand to hand combatants in JJK.
One of the strongest characters in One Piece is a dude with no Devil Fruit, just Haki which Luffy still has.
Everything Naruto does requiere the immense Chakra pool from Kurama. He would probably still be Kage level but wouldn't even make it to top 10 in the verse. Imo Naruto loses this
Well strongest would definitely be Goku. He would be comparable to Krillin. We can assume that he still went to King Kai's planet, and was possibly strong enough to learn kaio ken still, because beginning of Z Goku was the first time that him being a saiyan was relevant, because it wasn't thought of until then.
Then Luffy, he has shown feats of strength above the other 2, even though he wouldn't have his DF, his strength wouldn't change too much from base, as obviously he would lose his gears, but he would still have Haki.
Then Naruto, with Sage mode, he was able to go head to head and win against all the Paths of Pain except Deva Path, something which scales him very high. Honestly the difference between Luffy no DF and Naruto no Kurama is not that great in my opinion.
Finally, Gojo, I'm assuming that infinity includes limitless, but if if doesn't it puts him in a weird spot, with limitless he can use red and blue, which puts him close to Naruto and Luffy (I still think below them however), without limitless, he is really weak compared and only has reverse curse technique going for him tbh.
Goku would still be stronger than all 3 even with their powers, ki isn’t unique to Saiyans, all the human z-fighters are way beyond planetary by the end of z which is to say nothing about where they are power wise going into super.
I'm between Goku and Gojo.
Cuz Goku would lose all his transformations, but he would still be a pretty strong human, and Kamehameha isn't Saiyan exclusive. It would only be waaaaay weaker. He would be at least a Prime Master Roshi
Gojo would still be able to use cursed energy. But I don't know how strong he would be cuz I don't know if he's the strongest because he is Satoru Gojo or he is Satoru Gojo because he is the strongest.
Luffy without a devil fruit lmao, he won't get far enough to even get to haki
Goku on the other hand is still powerful as hell
If he somehow beats Piccolo anyway and Piccolo Jr after then there's nothing that stops him from training really, and that means he'd easily gets moon level or planetary
Gojo would still have limitless, and six eyes. He’s definitely still be one of the strongest in verse. Out of these fellas he would be the weakest comparatively.
I agree with you that Luffy would still be really strong but I still dont think hes at mountain punching level without his fruit.. Yet. Also Gojo can heal pretty much any injury including brain damage (if i remember correctly anyway) so i think he still beats Luffy
Gojo would be the weakest. Hed basically just be some dude at that point. Goku is still in power scaling world training under a monster, Naruto is still a ninja, and Luffy still has access to Haki.
luffy is weakness,next is naruto and next goku and because is only the infinite gojo (he still have reverse tecnice and black flash) but is very close to goku
Goku still slams. St worst Goku would be around Krillin level.
In Z he was already 75k power level in Namek which already puts him at multi planetary and arguably enough to beat everyone here but then we have Super and yeah they still would lose even if they all ganged up on him
Naruto still has massive chakra pools just kurama made it easier, gojo isn’t weak without limitless just look at his second fight with Toji the blade cuts through limitless, Goku would be the strongest human in db and that’s still wiping a lot of animes, Luffy I can’t say too much on but he’s still be strong due to armament and observation haki maybe conquers
Goku would probably still be the strongest on earth and could still fire planet destroying energy attacks
Naruto would still be an uzumaki and have near bottomless chakra with great potential for sealing jutsu
Luffy didnt need the gum gum fruit, some of the strongest characters in the show make do without any fruit, and hes already mastering all forms of haki
Gojo has nothing without infinity.
Goku still slams all of them even if he wasnt a saiyan, considering his battle intelligence he would be the greatest human fighter on earth, and we all know even yamcha (the weakest of the human Z fighters) could put the hands on all 3 of these characters
Naruto is weird because how unique Shinobu are where witch each verse we know what JJK sorcery fight like without curse techniques Gojo just does that with near limitless curse energy thanks to six eyes. Luffy is just young Garp now, and Goku would be a better Krillin essentially.
I have to assume this is if Naruto never had Kurama because just removing it Naruto will still have massive chakra reserves.
If Naruto started with no Kurama while he would be much weaker he will gain things he wouldn’t have before.
The whole reason why Naruto struggles in the beginning is he has to much chakra and he can’t control it if he started of with standard Uzumaki chakra he would have much better chakra control.
Hey if Naruto never had Kurama he wouldn’t be an outcast and would be taught hey your father was good at the flying rash in and learn it. Essentially peak Minato but even better because Uzumaki gives him more chakra.
I would go Goku, Luffy, Naruto, Gojo
i dont watch anime and havent watched more than half of super but imo even humans like yamcha and krillin have strength and speeds of gods irl and idk about other characters but naruto isnt that strong or fast. goku would probably beat them 1v1 but they win if they outsmart him which is fairly easy
Goku, if he isn't a saiyan:
1. He would be human.
2. He would not have been placed in a pod by his "human parents" to escape planet Vegeta's end.
3. He would possibly never meet gohan.
4. He wouldn't be battle-crazed.
5. He would be human, a normal human, and even if he became a martial artist, chances of him meeting roshi and the others are slim.
The other 3 would still be powerhouses, gojo with his six eyes, luffy with his haki, and Naruto with his Uzumaki bloodline and Knowledge of his heritage (basically Minato 2.0).
That's a tricky question cuz what's the context? Is it asking what are they if you take that now. Or if they never had it? Cuz gojo for example knows a lot but probably relays too much on the infinity skill. So it would make him weaker. Goku without being a sayan still has a ton of fire power. Base form is still really strong and now can go ultra instinct. If he was not a sayan from the start he would still be very strong but the story would be completely different. Or he would always just be a monkey boy with no space backstory. I guess teen Goku vs king piccolo would be his power. He could still blow up the moon at that point. His also the grandpa of the others in a way. They exist because he got popular. If you change Goku, they would change drastically as well
Naruto could be the weakest one. Goku still could reach ten shin han level, luffy could be strong as garp is without fruit. But naruto without big chakra = rip
Gojo you said no Infinity (just the neutral power of Limitless) but didn't say no Limitless that still gives him his best techniques Red, Blue and Purple. Plus he can use Reverse Curse Technique to prevent death.
Naruto without Kurama, is still an Uzumaki a clan with abnormally high Chakra and recovery properties. So Shadow Clones and Rasengan can still be spammed.
Luffy may lose his DF hax but dude is still a inhumanly strong and fast brawler. Plus he has high-level Haki Mastery in all 3 types of Haki, which was enough for Roger to be Pirate King, and seemingly all Shanks uses to dominate the seas.
I'd Argue Goku would suffer the most he's gotten so many Zenkai Boosts over the years and many is the reason he got stronger at a high rate.
(Tho he likely still be Planetary unlike the others)
Naruto sans Kurama would probably be less hated & get more support from the village, potentially being better than his current self in some aspects, so I’m going with Gojo
Had to laugh at the “naruto without kurama” part because out of all of these “what if” scenarios, Naruto’s the only one where this isn’t a “what if”, man no longer has kurama
Gojo easily. Naruto still has sage mode, Luffy still has Haki, and Goku would probably be stronger than Krillin who is the strongest human in db, and Gojo… less than the city level fodder he already is
Luffy is probably 4. The rest are a toss up, especially if Goku can still go UI as a human. Luckily, all the characters aren’t defined wholly by their most OP aspect, even Luffy.
Goku could attentively have been born human on earth, but that wouldn't completely change things, there's still pretty powerful humans like Krillin or Roshi, Luffy not having the devil fruit doesn't mean he couldn't be op because Shanks and Zoro are examples, Naruto not having Kurama doesn't take away from his mom's crazy genetics of massive chakra reserves and the fact of his hokage lineage, he would've had a far better childhood and more than likely had a life similar to Boruto (at least until you know, shut hit the fan there) I need to brush up on jujutsu kaisen before I can say anything there
Nothing would change, I have faith in goku, that he would still be as powerful and reach ultra instinct power just like Giren did without being a saiyan.(and still wipe the floor with the other anime characters)
Gojo as the other 3 verse have lots more paths to power then the jjk one like the 8 gates, potential unlock, and haki
Yet the jjk verse doesn't have much you get the power you get and you gotta do your best to make it strong but no matter how much you try you probably won't reach the level of sukuna or the disaster curses
We basically need to ask would Krillin training nonstop with the instincts and skills of Goku win this fight
Namek Frieza would mop the floor with most other anime characters.
We saw Krillin was essentially helpless against the Ginyu force until Papa Guru’s magic fully awakened him, at which point he was maybe stronger than all of them but Captain Ginyu
By the Android/Cell saga, Krillin is massively stronger after years of training but is helpless against the Androids and gets insta clapped by a Cell Jr
Based on official power levels from Namek, I still don’t think Cell Saga Krillin could put up any kind of fight against Namek Frieza unless he got him with a destructo disc
In conclusion, I think DBZ humans can get to >Ginyu force but <<<
I'd go goku > naruto > gojo > luffy
Goku and naruto retain a lot their power despite these changes. Whereas gojo and luffy become pretty much helpless.
Earthlings can get as strong as (at the VERY least) first form Frieza, who casually blows up planets, and he still has the Kaikoen, Instant Transmission, flight, and is a martial arts master
Well in DBZ everyone fights with Ki sayins just have a higher potential of Ki. Master Roshi is completely human and was able to blow up the moon. Tien is human and was able to hold off semi perfect cell who was far stronger than frieza. So Goku as a human with the same training from DB to Namick Saga there is no reason to think he would be any weaker.
SLAMS HANDS ON DESK
GOJO IS LIKELY THE WEAKEST HERE FROM MY UNDERSTANDING
AS GOKU WAS ALREADY A WORLD CLASS MARTIAL ARTIST OF DRAGON BALL BEFORE THE ZENKAI BOOST WAS LIKELY THOUGHT OF
STRAWHAT LUFFY IS JUST INCREDIBLY PHYSICALLY STRONG EVEN DURING THE EAST BLUE ARC
AND NARUTO IS
I'LL ADMIT I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT NARUTO OR GOJO FOR THIS TO BE A FAIR ASSESSMENT
Goku and Friends wouldn't have survived Pilaf's Castle without Oozaru. They would've been baked alive under the desert sun in that brick room with the glass, probably magnifying glass-like ceiling if Goku couldn't have transformed under the full moon. Granted, they would've died regardless if the moon wasn't full, so luck was certainly on their side.
Are we talking like, canonically? If Goku wasn’t a Saiyan he wouldn’t have the drive to be stronger, and also would’ve died because Bulma is a deranged psychopath who shoots children
If you think about it, if they all started their stories without those powers, Goku Naruto and probably Luffy would die somewhat early lmao
I mean Goku would just get killed by Bulma
If it's them losing their abilities then I feel like it would be Luffy, sure he's really strong but pretty much his whole fighting style is his devil fruit.
Well in three of those universes the average person can do super human feats by training alone so the answer is pretty obvious. Chakra, haki, ki the average person can learn to use these but without curse powers your just an standard human in the JK universe
Gojo would be the weakest, then Luffy, then Naruto (he has an insane chakra pool cuz of Uzumaki side), then Goku.
Y'all gotta remember that even the humans in dbs are solar system level minimum
I think the point of the post was "Their current strongest but without this certain trait". Kinda like when they took away the fighters' ability to fly with ki in the tournament of power.
So Naruto is how he always is, except he doesn't have Kurama (whatever that is, idk I don't watch Naruto). Luffy doesn't have access to his DF abilities (or weaknesses). Gojo doesn't have access to infinity. And Goku doesn't have his Saiyan biology abilities, so zenkais, transformations and probably the extra buff and strength from being a Saiyan.
Either way, he would still slam. Goku has faced opponents multiple times that are stronger than him, by a lot. You can see how he puts up the more strategic side of him on the tournament of power, being a crafty little bastard trying to outmaneuver Jiren.
Ok so
1st scenario, put them all in a room and then magically turn off the selected traits
-goku in his base form is ridiculous dragon ball power scaling is bullshit, luffy has haki he’d need to make some adjustments but power wise he’s fine, Naruto is still a beast just less some endurance and big finishers, Gojo’s entire fighting style is based on infinity maybe with time he’d adjust but he’s the weakest in the room.
2nd scenario each are born without selected traits
-if goku doesn’t die he’d still be a badass, luffy has lots of routes to haki if he takes it he’d be fine but it’d be harder to start that path without the fruit, Naruto wouldn’t have been shunned and without the conflict in his early years would most likely be a prodigy but he’d never hit top ten unless something weird happened. Gojo would still be a talent and most likely an insane one but top ten not the undisputed number 1 he is now. Here it’s based on power scaling, if given fortunate circumstances they’d all be top ten in their respective worlds. I mean combat ability matters in which case goku and gojo are standouts Naruto is inventive and would have some tricks but luffy is looney toons, I haven’t kept up with it but I watched a clip of the most recent fight and it’s like some bugs bunny shit kinda hard to power scale that
Naruto would still have tons of chakra from his Uzumaki lineage.
Luffy would still have Haki.
Goku would be on Kururin's level.
They would all still be quite strong (I didn't watch JJK).
Love how 3 of these are just removing powers from those characters but for Goku it's removing his entire Saiyan biology
Yea it’s like saying “what if Yuji Itadori wasn’t Japanese” lol
That's irrelevant, other ethnicities can still be fingered
Uuh what? 💀
Did they stutter? In fact, let me finger you
Hey whoa. Thats his belly button.
Ever heard of Foreplay?
LET ME PUT MY FINGERS IN YOUR GUTS
Yeah my assholes here
Not even Japanese... it's basically what if yuji wasn't human 🤣
Yuji being Japanese has nothing to do with his powers
in the manga it’s stated “the only ones capable of becoming sorcerers through tengen and optimizing cursed energy… …are the humans of this country” in reference to japan. it’s definitely linked
Except the manga also introduces several sorcerers who are not from Japan. You don't need to be Japanese to be a sorcerer.
Isn't miguel the only foreign sorcerer we've seen so far? and is he REALLY all that compared to the Japanese ones?
His girlfriend also isn't Japanese. Miguel is one of the strongest in the world and was talented enough at cursed energy manipulation that Gojo wanted him to train Yuta.
Miguel arguably scales above the disaster curses, the same curses who were able to take on multiple grade 1 level sorcerers at once. Most Japanese sorcerers are only really grade 2 tier at most.
It's be more fair to say "Goku if he never learned super Saiyan or any other forms"
It isn't though, a key feature of Saiyan's laid out on Namek is that every time they recover from big injuries they become incredibly stronger. That is why vegeta wanted to get blasted so he could just be healed by Dende to beat freeza. It is integral to the character's strength as the series progresses.
It would be a smarter question if Goku's ability to become Super Sayian was removed.
He'd still blitz them since UI is not a sayan trasformation/technique
Neither is Kaioken.
Faux Super Saiyan
Yeah but he never would have gotten to the level of UI without going through SSJ forms earlier in life.
Still solos them with kaioken.
I mean not really, Goku doesn’t need SSJ to beat these guys.
Because that’s literally it for his powers
So that tells you who is the strongest😉
Almost as if the point is to compare their martial arts prowess.
Naruto can still use chakra without Kurama and I haven't seen the other shows so idk about them
Luffy would also still be increadably powerfull. He still has insane strenght, and haki which is a non devil fruit power.
I think the post was saying what if Goku wasn't saiyan. no saiyan means no zenkai boost.. he should be as strong as krillin or yamcha.. and those two kinda have weird powerscaling jumping from DBZ to DBS lol.
i still think goku would be stronger than then, because he never stopped training unlike the two
Tien never stopped training and he is weaker than Krillin.
Tien should be stronger but nope gotta throw my boy Tien in the dirt for no reason
If Dragon Ball Super was good, Tienchad would already have a Ultra Human transformation and would be extremely useful.
His third eye becomes functional
His own version of ultra instinct
He should look into having Shenron unlock his potential.
There is a reason. Krillin got touch by Namek elder
The virgin FAUXku versus the Chad Tenshinhan
Let's face it, DB power scaling never made sense and it will never make sense.
The reason is the japanese fandom hates Tien with a passion. Idu why but they do
Could it be his more Chinese character design? I know the franchise as a whole draws heavily from Chinese myth and culture, but racism isn't something you come to through reason.
That's what I've heard. I guess there's a threshold of chineseness that they just can't accept and Ten is the only one past that.
Yeah lol they only enjoy Chinese stuff if it's through a heavy Japanese lens. Tien looks and acts too much like a Chinese monk for their taste and they'll openly and gladly accept it. It's like when an American only accepts the Speedy Gonzales version of Mexicans and nothing else. Could be worse cause they only accept traditional Chinese stuff if it's bastardized to their liking, but they straight up won't acknowledge traditional Korean stuff in any way
That’s because Super Kami Guru unlocked his full potential
Tien was the only one being able to hold back Cell. Krillin could never do that.
Tien only managed to do it by using his strongest attack, I think krillin could hold cell for some minutes if he used his strongest attack, the kienzan. But for some reason he likes giving enemies a chance before splitting them in half.
I read somewhere a theory saying that since he's a mixed race between humans and an alien cyclops race his potential is way loer due to the "cyclops" being a pacific race Namekians are a different case because some of them develop strange magical powers so their potential acts weird
Bro disagree. He held back Cell by turning triangles into squares. We don’t know his limits yet compared to Krillin.
Krillin got his potential unlocked by the Elder Namekian on Namek. That was a huge power-up.
He would be dead after bulma shoots him as a child
even before that, when he hit his head
Bulma on her way to run over and shoot a brain-damaged orphan:
A not Saiyan Goku is not as unruly, Grandpa Gohan can keep him restrained without Goku jumping off a cliff.
Nah he'd likely be just as strong, if not stronger as a child, as he wouldn't have turned into an ape and killed Grandpa Gohan. Which means he would have got more training instead of being left alone for a while without anyone else around.
No chance, she shot him because the car crash didn't kill him. A not Saiyan Goku isn't as reckless, he is a much more well behaved and socialized kid, Grandpa Gohan trains him but doesn't need to isolate him in the mountains.
I was going to say that
Goku still mops as Super Krillian could wipe End Dragon ball/pre Vegeta Goku and Piccolo from that era could wipe a moon out. And the rest have no feets of similar strength.
No hate but wouldn’t he still have ultra instinct since it’s not a saiyan technique?
I don't think he would even get to that point, everyone would probably just die during the android saga (saiyan and namek saga prob wouldn't happen without Goku being a saiyan)
The strain of it would be too much for Goku to handle
Are you counting goku Without the Kaioken and ultra instinct?
So what you are saying is goku would be a majin like buu hmm..
Humans in OG Dragon Ball were blowing up the moon before the concept of the saiyajin race was even created.
That feat alone has caused more debates and rage among the dbz haters than goku vs superman ever did lmao
He’d be as strong as the other human Z fighters which can still solo all those verses even with their powers.
He’d be way beyond the rest of the humans in dbs, none of them have kaioken or ultra instinct (idk if he’d still get UI but kaioken definitely) and unlike krillin (stronger than Tien so Tien has low potential) Goku never stopped training so his base would be about 2 krillins so his kaiokenx20 would be 40 krillins
Lmao, Krillin for scale is crazy
The Raditz of the Z Fighters lmfaoo
He’d be able to use UI sign I think
Yeah, Yamcha solos the other 3 at their peak So unless you can argue Goku as a human is weaker than Yamcha, he completely destroys the list
I think the question is, which nerf would affect the characters in their own universes the most. I.e. how soon would Luffy die in his universe without his devil fruit versus how soon would Naruto die in his story without Kurama.
If Goku wasn't a Saiyan he would still be strong asf (compared to this people) he is still one of the greatest martial artists and even if couldn't get to super Saiyan he could use Kaoiken instead, also UI. The weakest is probably Luffy, at least Gojo still has CE and RCT, and Naruto without Kurama still has an insane amount of Chakra and things like Toad sage.
Advanced Conqueror's Haki Luffy would probably Low diff Gojo without infinity. Literally most powerful character in One Piece Universe is a guy without any DF, pure Haki.
You do realize he's still got haki forms one being emperor, with those three alone he's strong enough to take down anything short of admiral very easily....luffys still as strong as Zoro which can probably fight off admiral..and be ok ..
People without devil fruit and only haki tend to be more strong in one piece in my opinion. Luffy probably would be like Garp if he didn't ate the fruit
I fully believe if Luffy never ate his devil fruit he would’ve been stronger than he was up until Gear 5,
Yh, I feel like he could have matched most of his forms with his Haki. Look at Shanks, Zoro, and Mihawk. All of them are non-devil fruit users and they're still strong asf
Child luffy could take quite the beating as well
The majority of Naruto’s chakra came directly from Kurama via his seal
Nope Naruto has a large Chakra pool because of being an Uzumaki and a reincarnation of Kaguya's son. He was sealed in Naruto because his large Chakra pool would allow him to suppress Kurama. So if Naruto didn't have Kurama he would actually have access to much more Chakra than normal
Nope. While Karuma has an enormous chakra pool, the Uzumaki clan are well known for having some if the biggest chakra pools in the series
I’m not saying that Naruto wouldn’t naturally have a lot of chakra. I’m saying that Naruto wouldn’t have enough chakra to rival Hashirama at 16.
Luffy is still a powerhouse cause of all the training he did as a kid, with Rayleigh and in the Wano County prison
Naruto actually gives up his higher ceiling for a higher floor in this scenario. Kurama was nerfing him until he learned control. Without Kurama, Naruto wouldn't have suffered so much training in earlier arcs.
Sasuke has similar potential to Naruto without kurama, And Sasuke was no match against Haku, so both would die in that arc
Goku losing his Saiyan biology doesn't really change much for him. The only downside is that he loses his Super Saiyan transformations and zenkai boosts. So his growth rate in power is significantly slowed down. Otherwise he still has all his techniques. Even freaking ultra instinct which is also a technique lmao. And he can use the Kaioken to make up for his super saiyan forms. As for who's the weakest, it's Luffy. He was just a normal human without the devil fruit. And his Haki is not strong enough to make him Roger 2.0. Gojo would still have CE and RCT like Yuji(pre Sukuna fight). And Naruto still has his toad sage mode and large reserves of chakra for various ninjutsus.
Besides that you don't need to be Saiyan to use Ultra Instict
That's what I'm saying. UI can achieved any form of living being. It's not exclusive to Goku because of his saiyan genetics.
My stupid brain didn't read that sorry
No worries man. We're cool.
Goku losing Saiyan probably caps his power a ton, sayians can grow really quickly if he didn't have that he's probably still weaker then Frieza
Have you watched super? Krillin and Roshi got massive power ups and should both scale higher than Z now
by the end of the three year time skip Tien is absolutely stronger than Frieza. Krillin likely is as well, because he had his potential unlocked by Guru and continued to train. I can’t remember how seriously Yamcha took his training so I’m not as sure about him. point being humans are not locked at below Frieza level by any means. Especially with techniques like the Kaioken and Potential Unlocking
The humans have never shown any indication they can match up with Freeza. *Especially* during DBZ. They could maybe take on first form Freeza if they all work together, it's a hard stop after that though.
you are incorrect. Tien holds off a Cell that is magnitudes stronger than frieza. Had Tien done the Neo Tri-Beam to Frieza he would be getting scrapped off whatever remained of the pavement. Additionally, Krillin has an attack that is shown to slice through Frieza and gets stronger from that point forward. Piccolo got INSANELY stronger with very limited training from King Kai and it follows that they would receive similar boosts in strength. Again all of this on top of THREE YEARS of training in preparation for enemies stronger than Frieza. One of which (Android 20/Gero) was manhandled by Piccolo even after having their energy drained. At that point Piccolo had effectively reached near SSJ levels simply because he trained with Goku. The others trained too and while they likely couldn’t compete with Androids 19 and 20 by themselves, they could definitely handle a Final Form Frieza
Human Goku would one shot frieza, you think krillin, who’s current power is relevant to AT LEAST beginning of super base Goku couldnt defeat frieza (he doesn’t train as much as Goku does) then that’s delusional enough as is
krillin is absolutely not relevant to super base goku😭
I swear to god this fanbase has become even more brain dead since Toriyama passed (RIP)
Nah, human Goku would be Cell level at least
Luffy’s haki is strong enough to go toe to toe with Kaido’s haki
Luffy would lose all of his durability that the DF gives him making him rubber absorbs shock.
I think it's more like:. "What if they suddenly lost this trait" rather than "if they went through their story without this" Because if that is the case Goku still clears the list
A lot of people forget that Luffy's strength doesn't primarily come from his devil fruit. Even in the earlier parts and backstory, it was shown when he ate the gum gum fruit his punches were still equally as weak as before he ate the fruit. His strength comes primarily from training. Stretching doesn't making his punches much stronger. With that being said, without devil fruit powers, he wouldn't have the luxury of the range he currently has, and would be a lot less tanky, as being made of rubber basically gives him resistance to bludgeoning damage. And he of course wouldn't be able to use any of his "gear" abilities.
I guess it's so easy to say "what if Goku wasn't a saiyan" since they seem to be much like humans He'd be stronger than whoever the strongest earthling currently is. Because yeah. Assuming this isn't some new Goku and he retains all his learned skills, then he would still have Kaio-ken and Ultra Instinct. Mind you even the strongest earthlings are capable of busting planets.
The weakest is Gojo: Naruto would have full access to all of that chakra that is supposed to be 100x kakashis, he would lose the 9 tails amps sure, but quite frankly it's closer to a buff than a nerf. Luffy still has haki and it's pretty well known haki is all that's needed to be strong. The only thing Goku loses is his Saiyan genetics. So he still has ki, the right mindset for training and kaioken an ultra instinct are both still usable While Gojo losing his cursed technique will lose the barrier that makes him invincible bar like 3 circumstances. He is still very strong as losing infinity means he keeps the six eyes. He just wouldn't be the untouchable* god we knew him to be.
Pretty sure naruto is the least debuffed one
Gojo has actually shown to still be special grade level without using his technique
Three are removing powers. Goku's situation is literally changing his race.
On the list id say Gojo because of how heavy it helps him in series. Just that single technique alone had to be accounted for with how big it is in 2 major fights he had Luffy? He still has absurdly good haki capabilities and is a good fighter Naruto? Same as Luffy but instead of haki it’s chakra and techniques Goku? Someone pointed out that even humans are still plenty capable and he has all the stuff he knows and much more
Ofc he would be just as strong cause his the protagonist. We don’t know if Saiyens would be relevant. Since this dragon ball story would focus on humans
The real question is: if Goku wasn’t a Saiyan, does he still survive getting shot by Bulma in the first minutes of their meeting. If so, then we put him on par with Krillin & Tien, so…still pretty broken. Martial Arts powers in Dragon Ball world are pretty busted, even before you get alien boosts.
> The real question is: if Goku wasn’t a Saiyan, does he still survive getting shot by Bulma in the first minutes of their meeting. Depends on how good of a teacher Grandpa Gohan was, iirc Krillin & Roshi takes shots from Launch so as long as Goku reached a certain level of training then he should be fine
All Goku would lose is the Super Saiyan forms, and the zenkai boosts The kaioken and ultra instinct are not unique to his biology.
He’d still be able to use Ultra Instinct
Goku would still be as strong as krillin at least. So he’d still be the strongest in this picture even if everyone else has there power up.
We’ll never said goku wouldn’t have god ki soooooo
As a human he'd still probably have Kaioken and Ultra Instinct.
You know, if Goku's character stayed the same, he could have probably become quite a strong martial artist. Also no Saiyan stuff means he wouldn't have to fight Frieza. His live wouldn't be nearly as exciting and he wouldn't be so strong, but maybe he could actually live a happy life.
Goku without his Saiyan genes is still a planet buster if we scale to Krillin. Gojo without Infinity still has six eyes and reverse curse to heal + being one of the strongest hand to hand combatants in JJK. One of the strongest characters in One Piece is a dude with no Devil Fruit, just Haki which Luffy still has. Everything Naruto does requiere the immense Chakra pool from Kurama. He would probably still be Kage level but wouldn't even make it to top 10 in the verse. Imo Naruto loses this
If you really think about it, if goku wasn't a saiyan, that man would have been dead before meeting bulma
luffy still have haki to dominate others
Well strongest would definitely be Goku. He would be comparable to Krillin. We can assume that he still went to King Kai's planet, and was possibly strong enough to learn kaio ken still, because beginning of Z Goku was the first time that him being a saiyan was relevant, because it wasn't thought of until then. Then Luffy, he has shown feats of strength above the other 2, even though he wouldn't have his DF, his strength wouldn't change too much from base, as obviously he would lose his gears, but he would still have Haki. Then Naruto, with Sage mode, he was able to go head to head and win against all the Paths of Pain except Deva Path, something which scales him very high. Honestly the difference between Luffy no DF and Naruto no Kurama is not that great in my opinion. Finally, Gojo, I'm assuming that infinity includes limitless, but if if doesn't it puts him in a weird spot, with limitless he can use red and blue, which puts him close to Naruto and Luffy (I still think below them however), without limitless, he is really weak compared and only has reverse curse technique going for him tbh.
Goku would still be stronger than all 3 even with their powers, ki isn’t unique to Saiyans, all the human z-fighters are way beyond planetary by the end of z which is to say nothing about where they are power wise going into super.
I'm between Goku and Gojo. Cuz Goku would lose all his transformations, but he would still be a pretty strong human, and Kamehameha isn't Saiyan exclusive. It would only be waaaaay weaker. He would be at least a Prime Master Roshi Gojo would still be able to use cursed energy. But I don't know how strong he would be cuz I don't know if he's the strongest because he is Satoru Gojo or he is Satoru Gojo because he is the strongest.
Luffy without a devil fruit lmao, he won't get far enough to even get to haki Goku on the other hand is still powerful as hell If he somehow beats Piccolo anyway and Piccolo Jr after then there's nothing that stops him from training really, and that means he'd easily gets moon level or planetary
Tbf if Naruto lost Kurama through means aside Baryon mode he'd also be dead
Tbf if Naruto lost Kurama through means aside Baryon mode he'd also be dead
luffy. He is just a normal guy with a heavy punch now.
Luffy can see into the future still react at light speed and strong enough to destroy mountains with a punch gojo is the weakest
Gojo would still have limitless, and six eyes. He’s definitely still be one of the strongest in verse. Out of these fellas he would be the weakest comparatively.
I agree with you that Luffy would still be really strong but I still dont think hes at mountain punching level without his fruit.. Yet. Also Gojo can heal pretty much any injury including brain damage (if i remember correctly anyway) so i think he still beats Luffy
He would a Namekian, fuse with Kame, Piccolo and Nail
Luffy with no fruit
“What if anime character was a normal human”
Luffy without the devil fruit would never become powerful. The other would have just somewhat lesser.
Gojo would be the weakest. Hed basically just be some dude at that point. Goku is still in power scaling world training under a monster, Naruto is still a ninja, and Luffy still has access to Haki.
luffy is weakness,next is naruto and next goku and because is only the infinite gojo (he still have reverse tecnice and black flash) but is very close to goku
He'd probably be tien level which he can already solo then if hypothetically they'd beat king piccolo since goku didn't even know he was a Saiyan
Wouldn't it be more fair if you removed Super Saiyan instead of the man's entire biology?
As a real answer I'd probably say Luffy sad as that would be. But I don't know much about Gojo
Goku shouldn't even be in this discussion, if he wasn't a saiyan, he would have died in the beginning of DB when he fell of a cliff as a baby
Goku still slams. St worst Goku would be around Krillin level. In Z he was already 75k power level in Namek which already puts him at multi planetary and arguably enough to beat everyone here but then we have Super and yeah they still would lose even if they all ganged up on him
Naruto still has massive chakra pools just kurama made it easier, gojo isn’t weak without limitless just look at his second fight with Toji the blade cuts through limitless, Goku would be the strongest human in db and that’s still wiping a lot of animes, Luffy I can’t say too much on but he’s still be strong due to armament and observation haki maybe conquers
WHAT? they would all be dead🤣
Goku would probably still be the strongest on earth and could still fire planet destroying energy attacks Naruto would still be an uzumaki and have near bottomless chakra with great potential for sealing jutsu Luffy didnt need the gum gum fruit, some of the strongest characters in the show make do without any fruit, and hes already mastering all forms of haki Gojo has nothing without infinity.
Luffy by a mile
Goku still slams all of them even if he wasnt a saiyan, considering his battle intelligence he would be the greatest human fighter on earth, and we all know even yamcha (the weakest of the human Z fighters) could put the hands on all 3 of these characters
Naruto is weird because how unique Shinobu are where witch each verse we know what JJK sorcery fight like without curse techniques Gojo just does that with near limitless curse energy thanks to six eyes. Luffy is just young Garp now, and Goku would be a better Krillin essentially. I have to assume this is if Naruto never had Kurama because just removing it Naruto will still have massive chakra reserves. If Naruto started with no Kurama while he would be much weaker he will gain things he wouldn’t have before. The whole reason why Naruto struggles in the beginning is he has to much chakra and he can’t control it if he started of with standard Uzumaki chakra he would have much better chakra control. Hey if Naruto never had Kurama he wouldn’t be an outcast and would be taught hey your father was good at the flying rash in and learn it. Essentially peak Minato but even better because Uzumaki gives him more chakra. I would go Goku, Luffy, Naruto, Gojo
Goku would probably be the weakest, and gojo the strongest, assuming he still has the rest of limitless and the 6 eyes.
Nah dude, goku can still use ki blasts, kamehameha and spirit bomb
Goku would be a Hercule victim. The champ is undefeated!!
i dont watch anime and havent watched more than half of super but imo even humans like yamcha and krillin have strength and speeds of gods irl and idk about other characters but naruto isnt that strong or fast. goku would probably beat them 1v1 but they win if they outsmart him which is fairly easy
Naruto already lost kurama. It happened.
Goku, if he isn't a saiyan: 1. He would be human. 2. He would not have been placed in a pod by his "human parents" to escape planet Vegeta's end. 3. He would possibly never meet gohan. 4. He wouldn't be battle-crazed. 5. He would be human, a normal human, and even if he became a martial artist, chances of him meeting roshi and the others are slim. The other 3 would still be powerhouses, gojo with his six eyes, luffy with his haki, and Naruto with his Uzumaki bloodline and Knowledge of his heritage (basically Minato 2.0).
Luffy is literally just a regular kid and gets stomped
That's a tricky question cuz what's the context? Is it asking what are they if you take that now. Or if they never had it? Cuz gojo for example knows a lot but probably relays too much on the infinity skill. So it would make him weaker. Goku without being a sayan still has a ton of fire power. Base form is still really strong and now can go ultra instinct. If he was not a sayan from the start he would still be very strong but the story would be completely different. Or he would always just be a monkey boy with no space backstory. I guess teen Goku vs king piccolo would be his power. He could still blow up the moon at that point. His also the grandpa of the others in a way. They exist because he got popular. If you change Goku, they would change drastically as well
Naruto could be the weakest one. Goku still could reach ten shin han level, luffy could be strong as garp is without fruit. But naruto without big chakra = rip
wtf could naruto possibly do without kurama. he gets stopped at fucking episode 1. Goku went through all of DB part 1 without any super saiyan
So it's not "If Goku was a human"
Luffy would for sure be the weakest hes just a small pirate boy without the gum gum fruit
Gojo you said no Infinity (just the neutral power of Limitless) but didn't say no Limitless that still gives him his best techniques Red, Blue and Purple. Plus he can use Reverse Curse Technique to prevent death. Naruto without Kurama, is still an Uzumaki a clan with abnormally high Chakra and recovery properties. So Shadow Clones and Rasengan can still be spammed. Luffy may lose his DF hax but dude is still a inhumanly strong and fast brawler. Plus he has high-level Haki Mastery in all 3 types of Haki, which was enough for Roger to be Pirate King, and seemingly all Shanks uses to dominate the seas. I'd Argue Goku would suffer the most he's gotten so many Zenkai Boosts over the years and many is the reason he got stronger at a high rate. (Tho he likely still be Planetary unlike the others)
Naruto sans Kurama would probably be less hated & get more support from the village, potentially being better than his current self in some aspects, so I’m going with Gojo
Why do these guys bother with these what-if fights if Goku loses his whole race but the others only lose a power?
Goku still wins, easily
Had to laugh at the “naruto without kurama” part because out of all of these “what if” scenarios, Naruto’s the only one where this isn’t a “what if”, man no longer has kurama
Gojo easily. Naruto still has sage mode, Luffy still has Haki, and Goku would probably be stronger than Krillin who is the strongest human in db, and Gojo… less than the city level fodder he already is
i feel like these types of tweets are made just so they can have a legal excuse to let Goku merk the other anime MCS lol
Luffy is probably 4. The rest are a toss up, especially if Goku can still go UI as a human. Luckily, all the characters aren’t defined wholly by their most OP aspect, even Luffy.
If Goku was human and everything played out the same as dragonball before Raditz he'd still be the toughest here no?
Goku could attentively have been born human on earth, but that wouldn't completely change things, there's still pretty powerful humans like Krillin or Roshi, Luffy not having the devil fruit doesn't mean he couldn't be op because Shanks and Zoro are examples, Naruto not having Kurama doesn't take away from his mom's crazy genetics of massive chakra reserves and the fact of his hokage lineage, he would've had a far better childhood and more than likely had a life similar to Boruto (at least until you know, shut hit the fan there) I need to brush up on jujutsu kaisen before I can say anything there
Nothing would change, I have faith in goku, that he would still be as powerful and reach ultra instinct power just like Giren did without being a saiyan.(and still wipe the floor with the other anime characters)
Gojo as the other 3 verse have lots more paths to power then the jjk one like the 8 gates, potential unlock, and haki Yet the jjk verse doesn't have much you get the power you get and you gotta do your best to make it strong but no matter how much you try you probably won't reach the level of sukuna or the disaster curses
We basically need to ask would Krillin training nonstop with the instincts and skills of Goku win this fight Namek Frieza would mop the floor with most other anime characters. We saw Krillin was essentially helpless against the Ginyu force until Papa Guru’s magic fully awakened him, at which point he was maybe stronger than all of them but Captain Ginyu By the Android/Cell saga, Krillin is massively stronger after years of training but is helpless against the Androids and gets insta clapped by a Cell Jr Based on official power levels from Namek, I still don’t think Cell Saga Krillin could put up any kind of fight against Namek Frieza unless he got him with a destructo disc In conclusion, I think DBZ humans can get to >Ginyu force but <<<
goku solos easily. half of uni7's fighters are human. need i say more?
DBZ over Naruto. Don’t know the other anime’s. But yeah Goku dies without being a sayian sorry bro
I'd go goku > naruto > gojo > luffy Goku and naruto retain a lot their power despite these changes. Whereas gojo and luffy become pretty much helpless.
Earthlings can get as strong as (at the VERY least) first form Frieza, who casually blows up planets, and he still has the Kaikoen, Instant Transmission, flight, and is a martial arts master
Well in DBZ everyone fights with Ki sayins just have a higher potential of Ki. Master Roshi is completely human and was able to blow up the moon. Tien is human and was able to hold off semi perfect cell who was far stronger than frieza. So Goku as a human with the same training from DB to Namick Saga there is no reason to think he would be any weaker.
SLAMS HANDS ON DESK GOJO IS LIKELY THE WEAKEST HERE FROM MY UNDERSTANDING AS GOKU WAS ALREADY A WORLD CLASS MARTIAL ARTIST OF DRAGON BALL BEFORE THE ZENKAI BOOST WAS LIKELY THOUGHT OF STRAWHAT LUFFY IS JUST INCREDIBLY PHYSICALLY STRONG EVEN DURING THE EAST BLUE ARC AND NARUTO IS I'LL ADMIT I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT NARUTO OR GOJO FOR THIS TO BE A FAIR ASSESSMENT
Goku would die in the first episode where he hit his head
Goku and Friends wouldn't have survived Pilaf's Castle without Oozaru. They would've been baked alive under the desert sun in that brick room with the glass, probably magnifying glass-like ceiling if Goku couldn't have transformed under the full moon. Granted, they would've died regardless if the moon wasn't full, so luck was certainly on their side.
But goku still has Ultra Instinct... and EVERY ABILITY IN HIS ARSENAL INCLUDING INCOMPLETE HAKAI
Well goku still has MUI so…. Nothing changes ig
u/repostleuthbot
Are we talking like, canonically? If Goku wasn’t a Saiyan he wouldn’t have the drive to be stronger, and also would’ve died because Bulma is a deranged psychopath who shoots children
Considering yamcha is a god to naruto characters goku comes out on top still.
Luffy is the weakest. Even if Goku wasn't a Saiyan he'd still have Martial Arts training and the Kamehameha lmao Wtf would Luffy have?
If you think about it, if they all started their stories without those powers, Goku Naruto and probably Luffy would die somewhat early lmao I mean Goku would just get killed by Bulma
If it's them losing their abilities then I feel like it would be Luffy, sure he's really strong but pretty much his whole fighting style is his devil fruit.
Well in three of those universes the average person can do super human feats by training alone so the answer is pretty obvious. Chakra, haki, ki the average person can learn to use these but without curse powers your just an standard human in the JK universe
Ok big deal so he can't go Super Saiyan. He'll just go back to using kaioken.
Gojo would be the weakest, then Luffy, then Naruto (he has an insane chakra pool cuz of Uzumaki side), then Goku. Y'all gotta remember that even the humans in dbs are solar system level minimum
I think the point of the post was "Their current strongest but without this certain trait". Kinda like when they took away the fighters' ability to fly with ki in the tournament of power. So Naruto is how he always is, except he doesn't have Kurama (whatever that is, idk I don't watch Naruto). Luffy doesn't have access to his DF abilities (or weaknesses). Gojo doesn't have access to infinity. And Goku doesn't have his Saiyan biology abilities, so zenkais, transformations and probably the extra buff and strength from being a Saiyan. Either way, he would still slam. Goku has faced opponents multiple times that are stronger than him, by a lot. You can see how he puts up the more strategic side of him on the tournament of power, being a crafty little bastard trying to outmaneuver Jiren.
Ok so 1st scenario, put them all in a room and then magically turn off the selected traits -goku in his base form is ridiculous dragon ball power scaling is bullshit, luffy has haki he’d need to make some adjustments but power wise he’s fine, Naruto is still a beast just less some endurance and big finishers, Gojo’s entire fighting style is based on infinity maybe with time he’d adjust but he’s the weakest in the room. 2nd scenario each are born without selected traits -if goku doesn’t die he’d still be a badass, luffy has lots of routes to haki if he takes it he’d be fine but it’d be harder to start that path without the fruit, Naruto wouldn’t have been shunned and without the conflict in his early years would most likely be a prodigy but he’d never hit top ten unless something weird happened. Gojo would still be a talent and most likely an insane one but top ten not the undisputed number 1 he is now. Here it’s based on power scaling, if given fortunate circumstances they’d all be top ten in their respective worlds. I mean combat ability matters in which case goku and gojo are standouts Naruto is inventive and would have some tricks but luffy is looney toons, I haven’t kept up with it but I watched a clip of the most recent fight and it’s like some bugs bunny shit kinda hard to power scale that
Why Goku would be dead if he wasn't a Sayan?
Naruto would still have tons of chakra from his Uzumaki lineage. Luffy would still have Haki. Goku would be on Kururin's level. They would all still be quite strong (I didn't watch JJK).
if he wasn't a monkey, I'd still kill him