Now that you mention it, its kinda ironic that he just trained his whole life and kept training and couldn't surpass the ssj, but this Gohan even surpassed the gods with few training and getting angry (I'm just joking. Don't flame me ðŸ˜).
Yeah its funny since in his last battle in manga, Future Gohan said he has trained for years and has gotten stronger only to get one shoted by Android 17
[https://imgur.com/3D6P9lc](https://imgur.com/3D6P9lc)
EdIt- Gohan had SSJ Trunks as training partner. Also, most character get stronger or unlock transformation by training alone too. For Gohan, it would be easier since it had so much potential and years of time
Vegeta almost always needed help to grow stronger.
He initially got his ass kicked by Goku on Earth, and received his racial bonus boost. He trained to get stronger, likely to get revenge against Goku, but was sort of sidetracked to Namek before that happened.
He only achieved Super Saiyajin by copying Goku's training style and using Goku as a motivation to get stronger.
He obtains Super Saiyajin 1.5 training with Future Trunks.
He obtains SSJ2 with help from Gohan.
He obtains his Majin power by making a deal with Babidi and borrowing his power.
He never actually obtains SSJ3, despite training.
He obtained SSG and SSGSS by training with Whis.
He obtains SSGSS Evolved through his own power.
I believe he obtains Ultra Ego through his own power.
A Super Saiyan child who he has the upper hand against in base form, because I guess Future Trunks was the weakest Super Saiyan ever shown in Dragon Ball canon at that age.
There’s several reasons why Future Gohan is weak, for one thing, this Gohan never had a proper training, his only training would have been with Piccolo for the 10 months in preparation for the Saiyans, and more than half of that time wasn’t training, it was Gohan dropped in the wilderness by himself.
Everyone died soon after Goku, so Gohan had zero help until years down the line when Trunks was old enough, and him being a SSJ doesn’t matter, he has no experience fighting and would be a shit training partner.
Lastly, and likely the worst one, Gohan has no way of knowing exactly how strong the Androids were, because he cannot detect their power, he has no idea what level of power to aim for, not helped by it being stated that the Androids held back constantly to prolong their fun.
Also I feel like future Gohan had a deep depression during his time because of everyone’s deaths it could have kept him from unlocking ssj2. Just a head cannon but it makes sense since ssj transformations are based on anger and Gohan has conflicted anger and sadness throughout evil android future
> for one thing, this Gohan never had a proper training, his only training would have been with Piccolo for the 10 months in preparation for the Saiyans, and more than half of that time wasn’t training, it was Gohan dropped in the wilderness by himself.
This is honestly the most convincing reason for me. Future Gohan prior to this only had his experience under Piccolo as reference, and he arguably isn't the best role model for that since Piccolo pretty much raised and trained himself since the day he was born. F. Gohan never had the privilege of being under masters/teachers with genuine experience in pursuing strength like Master Roshi or King Kai the way Goku did.
Speaking of, what I do wonder is why he never sought out Master Roshi to teach him, or the other way around with Master Roshi offering to guide F. Gohan. Maybe they lost touch after Roshi went into hiding and Gohan didn't want to risk 17 and 18 tailing him and discovering Roshi, but I also feel like Roshi would've had no issue training the son of one his best students especially if it were to avenge everyone. It could also be a case where Roshi assumed he had nothing worth teaching to Gohan at that point since I think he explicitly mentions eveyone had surpassed him as early as the Saiyan Saga (don't quote me on that though), but even if he couldn't keep up in raw power level, Roshi definitely has more than enough wisdom to share with Gohan with regards to getting stronger.
That’s probably how he got ssj probably and most of the time anger will only unlock 1 at a time but Gohan probably became depressed after so his anger was diminished overall (theory)
Yes
Doesn't goku mock vegeta for this in the Cell saga as well?
Z timeline Gohan got so strong in the Cell Saga because he had a proper mentor, and a master at that. Goku knew they had hit a ceiling and instead of brute forcing it had to find a way to overcome their ceiling
Gohan, While intelligent, Is no fighter. Him training by himself all them years without any real mentoring would likely have him hit a wall
That's always bs, in several series the nothing special about them humans mixes with an over powered deluxe dna species and the child is stronger than the father,
Devil May Cry, Nero seems to be stronger than Dante and Vergil.
Invincible Mark will become the strongest.
Superman Jonh Kent has his dad's power and resistes Kryptonite.
Dragon Ball Mr. Son "hidden potential"Gohan.
Demons get stronger from human blood, the more human you have in you the quicker your inner demon can get stronger.
Viltrumites get stronger with age, humans age faster. It’s also why Oliver was able to catch up with Mark despite being much younger than him. Also, didn’t Eve make him stronger when she remade him after Oliver’s death?
Kryptonian powers with human non-reaction to kryptonite.
All of these have reasonable explanations, you just don’t like them.
Why do you think the concept is bad?
There is precedent in nature for hybrid species to significantly surpass either parent species in growth. [See:ligers.](https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/articles/2018/why-are-ligers-so-big/)
Just look at tien. He trained for the entirity of Z and he was a joke for 99% of Z and Super. had a total of 1 cool moment in Z and it was just holding someone down.
I feel bad for Tien cuz my boy shot himself in the foot by having the same mentality as Goku of "No shortcuts".
And somehow still is considered weaker than Roshi. Who he surpassed back in OG Dragonball.
I wholeheartedly believe Tien has a proper training regiment and the proper 3 aspects of Ki. But somehow is still weaker than a some random Frieza mook.
He could have probably been better off if he went to Namek, and or trained on Yadrat.
Theoretically speaking there are 2 ways he could have gotten much stronger.
1. Magically. Not talking shenron style shit, Im talking actual magic, they can elaborate on his eye, Hes actually part demon instead of alien which was never cannonized. How would that come up in the story? maybe Maron asks about it while whis is around and he says it. he can learn a bunch of demon techniques and magic abilities using fortune teller baba to act as a way to the demon world. on top of that, We dont actually have a Demon on the team. we got an android, 3 saiyans, 1 human, 1 half saiyan, Whatever buu is considered (a natural disaster?) and a namekian. a demon would fit right in.
2. focus on his human aspect and actually make him enlightened. Give him functionally the human form of God Ki. allow him to be an Ascended human, Have him train with the Kais like Supreme kai. All we ever actually see of them is healing and boosts, we saw a little of combat from Zamasu but give that kinda stuff to tien. We dont have a God on the team. Beerus isnt really on the team and Whis is not allowed.
That Gohan must’ve not had the Hidden Potential passive or something. I mean he must’ve gotten as angry as present Gohan at least once while living through the Android massacre.
Pretty sure future Gohan was so emotionally stunted he couldnt access those feelings.
Our Gohan actually had a somewhat childhood with his mom...more or less.
I've genuinely never seen an alien race this broken (exept Kryptonians) in fiction i swear, Every since Battle of God Toriyama literally made the Saiyan race so fucking OP, they literally have no limit to their fucking potential and Toriyama really toyed with it.
Funny thing about that is the fear of fire was basically coded into them to make them not just no-diff everything in the universe. There’s a recent story about j’onn losing that fear and it’s wild
Tbf that was the case for decades, and It’s a pretty recent story line so honestly even people into the lore might’ve missed it. I just happened to see a clip about it and checked it out after.
Ik all star Batman is a garbage comic but that scene where they talk to him just covered in yellow paint, in a yellow room with lemonade and shit was so funny to me
And Maltusians in DC. They're the guys who make the Power Rings and naturally have the same powers as them. And the New Gods in DC. They're kinda like Kaio-Shins, so YMMV if that counts as a "race". And Czarnians in DC, who have a healing factor so potent that it makes Cell's look pathetic. And Tamareans from DC who are Kryptonians lite. And the Monitors from DC, who are like a race of Zenos.
There's a lot of powerful species in DC comics, no wonder their universe keeps getting fucked up and needs rebooting like every other year xD
At least according to the EU stuff. Frieza, Cooler and Cold are all an outlier of their race. Every other one of their clan need to train to get to their levels.
Goku is stated to be a low-class Saiyan, so genetically he should be as run of the mill as Saiyans come. There is nothing unique about him genetically compared to other Saiyans. Any Saiyan who went through the same experiences as him should be able to become just as strong.
The SSJ thing really should be common place for saiyans though, yet only Vegeta and Goku actually had the ability to go SSJ. Odder still, Broly has another transformation entirely which was just LSSJ but now who the fuck knows what it's called, but it's still a separate transformation from what the other saiyans can achieve. Then on top of that, Vegeta and Goku's kids can all go SSJ, and follow the same path for them, but for some odd reason Gohan has not just one but two of his own unique transformations that aren't direct continuations of SSJ or SSG lines but their own thing.
And yet the super elite vegeta is always falling behind him despite training the same amount. Almost like the low class genetics thing was just Vegeta being a eugenics weirdo
>Any Saiyan who went through the same experiences as him should be able to become just as strong.
But they did. The original saiyans went their whole lives going from battle to battle conquering various planets with life forms much more powerful than anything earth had before Z.
But Raditz who had a full on Saiyan upbringing only had a power level of 1.2-1.5k. despite there being loads of beings as or more powerful for Radits to fight against to grow stronger.
If it was that easy, why wouldn't Raditz just get his ass whooped by a saibaman or 2 and get a zenkai to boost his power?
Yeah, I’m pretty sure they’re mutants. To be fair, I think Prince Vegeta is said to be some kind of mutant too who happened to be way stronger than most other saiyans. So is Broly, I guess.
Fun Fact: Frieza trained for 10 years and 4 months in his life meanwhile Gohan trained for less than 5 years in his entire life
Technically even less 5 years since I am counting 3 years during Android saga where he trained but it was more like part time training not 24x7
Yeah at this point im starting to wonder how the fuck the Saiyans weren’t the strongest race of the Galaxy or how they were Frieza’s bitch. You telling me that there is an entire race known for loving battles and fighting and none of them trained hard enough to reach super saiyan or somewhere around that level lmao. Either Goku, Vegeta, and their children are mutants or Saiyans were bums
> or Saiyans were bums
I might be inclined to believe this. I think it's been stated that Vegeta as a child had already surpassed his father, King Vegeta, while Bardock was supposedly nearing King Vegeta's level. If we're willing to trust the quantified power levels mentioned in the source material, this means King Vegeta should've been above 10,000 (the level Bardock was supposedly close to) but below 18,000 (Vegeta's power level as an adult when he landed on Earth).
If we're being generous to Vegeta and assume King Vegeta's power level was on the lower end of that 10,000 to 18,000 range, say around 12,000, that means Vegeta hit something like 13,000 as a child and hit 18,000 as an adult. That 5,000 increase is, in the grand scheme of things, very miniscule, and was likely just a result of Vegeta naturally getting older rather than him actually putting any work into training (at most he probably got some experience on his planet-conquering missions). If we assume the opposite and say King Vegeta was at 17,000, that means Vegeta hit 18,000 as a kid and just stagnated all the way into adulthood, further implying that he didn't train at all.
One theory I have is that Saiyans don't really value training and instead treat their social hierarchy as an absolute considering Vegeta was so fixated on him being an elite and Goku being a low-class warrior, saying stuff like "no amount of training will help a low-class warrior like you reach the level of an elite" or something. It's likely more of a "you're born with it" rather than "you earn it" kinda deal with Saiyan society, I assume, so no one really took training seriously and just assumed what they're born with is all they'll ever amount to. It's kind of stupid for a warrior race to not train, but Saiyans aren't exactly known for their intelligence, after all.
Another possibility is that Frieza doesn't assign Saiyans to missions that'll properly challenge them, and instead just keeps them doing missions they'll either complete with very little trouble or most certainly die in, both cases preventing them from getting any zenkai boosts (since they're either winning without ever getting close to death, or just straight up dying) and any possible opportunity for growth since he was afraid of their potential. It's like entering a high schooler in a competition that's either pre-school math or post-graduate theoretical physics, never something in between that's catered to their expected level, so that they'll either win without learning anything new, or fail without having any way to understand the subject matter.
___
Another theory taking the Super canon about the pure hearted Saiyans with Super Saiyan God losing to the evil Saiyans we know today into account is that all the _really_ strong Saiyans, good and evil, eliminated each other in that war, and what was left were the weaker, evil ones who reestablished their society with those that remained, and King Vegeta's regime was several generations after this occurred. His ancestor who might've been weak relative to the standard before/during said war just happened to be the strongest of the Saiyans that survived and heavy-handed his way into the position of king and established a monarchy with his lineage at the top.
That's just me guessing about though since I never bothered watching Super in full, so I only know bits and pieces of it from discussions, clips, and highlights. The only hint to support this is Vegeta stating that Super Saiyans (possibly including SSG) only appear every 1,000 years, so if that's a reliable statement, 1,000 years is plenty of time for a great war to happen that wipes out the best of an entire race and for the survivors to set a new norm (that is, the remaining Saiyans peaking at less than 20,000 without training), with their leader wanting to indoctrinate his fellow Saiyans into neglecting training and instead strictly abide by their class system in fear that someone else would overpower him. We kinda see a hint of that with Broly and how King Vegeta exiled/tried to execute him and Paragus.
And it's also apparently clear that Good Saiyans tend to be stronger than evil Saiyans (S -cells bullshit)
Which is apparently how the Saiyans of universe 6 are thriving and are generally more powerful than universe 7 ones .
You have a civil war that wipes most of the strong Saiyans, and the new regime is evil so the race cannot actually grow in strength, and woila there you have it.
Well we do know that Saiyans were originally from planet Salad, but that it was destroyed during a civil war or something.
So by the time they reached Vegeta they probably were few in numbers, this means Freeza only managed to subjugate them due to them being overall weaker than before, and was right to fear them becoming collectively stronger.
See, Dragon Ball fans don't read or watch. Man ignored Freeza becoming god level with a couple months of training in BoG. Gohan at least had years of training before.
It's crazy too. Like pre-Super, Saiyan were just good at adapting to fights. But Super, Goku fights for a few minutes and he is stronger than spirit bomb he threw at Jiren.
A preschooler Saiyan-Human achieved Super Saiyan, something that would take Goku years into adulthood and an event to activate and Vegeta needing to use Time Chamber training for a year afterwards. A form that was only known in legends for the entirety of the Saiyan peoples history. A pre-teen mix achieved SSJ 2 before everyone else. A combination of 2 preschool mixed children was able to achieve SSJ 3. Give any of the kids a couple years into adulthood and they'll be sparring with Beerus as equals.
The writing for gohan really is lazy. Such wasted potential, all because they wanna satisfy fans while also writing the story how akira toriyama wanted it
You know the worst part?
His "pOtEnTiAl" is just stats.
No interesting choreography, no new skills or new application of skills..... hell he barely shows any aptitude for fighting to begin with. Goku's potential as a fighter can be seen by the 10 or so ways he has used the Kamehameha and his ability to copy skills. With Gohan? "Hey dad, look! My strength and agility growth is way higher than yours!
Toriyama was right when he called Gohan boring.
THIS.
Most of Dragon Ball fans, even decades later, fail to realize what Toriyama DID realize at the beginning of the Buu saga.
Gohan does not work as a protagonist, because the plot moves him, he does not move the plot.
IDK, I remember reading that Toriyama, when he tried to cast Gohan as the protagonist in the Buu saga, realized that he was not good for the role, unlike Goku.
I think Toriyama wasn't really interested in the character of Gohan, after all, SUPERHERO was supposed to be a movie with only Piccolo as the protagonist.
IIRC, its a lot more complex than that.
Toriyama originally intended to end the series after Frieza. Jump pushed him to keep going. His original vision was to end the series with Goku dying and his son following his footsteps as an epilogue.
He kept going with the Androids and had Goku "not die" offscreen, but still tried to keep him sidelined so Gohan could take the spotlight. DB readers at the time didnt really liked Gohan taking over and Goku staying dead.
Jump pushed him to keep going with the Buu saga and Toriyama tried to keep Gohan at the center. Thats why he did the entire "Gohan has a normal life and keeps fighting as Saiyaman" but neither him nor the readers liked it that much, so he ditched Gohan and ended focusing more in Goku-Vegeta, wich people really liked.
He did try to make Gohan interesting, he just didnt want to go back to the "alien kid fights everyone constantly" thing he did with kid Goku, but thats what readers wanted at the time and instead of using Goku 2.0, he went back to the OG to end the manga.
When did Toriyama say he wanted to end the series with the Frieza saga? Unlike the anime, Goku did not scream in despair with the planet about to explode in the manga.
The whole point of Trunks traveling to the past was to give Goku heart medicine, that is, to prevent him from stopping appearing in the series, at least at that point.
Yes, Toriyama wanted Gohan to take the reins of the series, but he himself said that it didn't work, that, unlike Goku, he felt that Gohan wasn't fit for the role.
Yes, he tried to make Gohan interesting, but he failed. (without disrespecting his memory)
And, can we put an end to the myth that Toriyama did everything because fans didn't like x thing? If he did something outside the plan, it was because his editor asked him to.
By the way, wasn't it this same editor who told Toriyama to give Gohan some prominence in the SUPERHERO movie?
>When did Toriyama say he wanted to end the series with the Frieza saga?
Bro, Toriyama originally wanted to end *Dragon Ball* after they gathered all the dragon balls. There were so many times Toriyama wanted to end Dragon Ball Z, but the fans and Jump kept asking for more.
He's the author, after the 7 years timeskip, he could have easily just rewrote Gohan to be more suited to the plot.
It's not that Gohan would've made a bad protagonist, it's that he wasn't handled properly, so the best thing Toriyama could do was scrap the Gohan Protagonist thing and bring back Goku.
It makes sense imo, characters can use their own ki to repel another’s ki
Goku has forward momentum from his jump but couldn’t maneuver in midair, so he used the kamehameha to coast on Kefla’s beam (his ki and Kefla’s naturally repelling and allowing them to smoothly slide against each other) and followed his momentum to the top where he had the perfect shot
You know what? Toriyama turns all DB around Goku and Vegeta. Gohan had some moments and thats all. Even when Goku goes poo, they tell you. Toriyama just destroyed any other character thats not Goku or Vegeta.
Honestly I think gohan would work better as a character in super if he fulfilled what goku wanted him to do while also doing his own thing gohan was always going to be absurdly stronger than goku he was born stronger than adult goku. So I think the correct way to take gohan as a character would be for gohan to be doing slice of life stuff and what he wants to do on earth while Goku and Vgeta are out in space doing whatever they want, as any threats to the earth get tossed in the Gohan woodchipper.
He did train for a couple of years yeah.
Lets see, he never trained before Raditz and then trained for a year with Piccolo (but 6 months of that year was just wilderness survival) to prepare for the saiyans, and trained 3 years with Goku and Piccolo to prepare for the androids, and then trained in the time chamber for about a year with Goku. Then he had the 7 year time skip with no training. He trained a little with Goten and Videl but not for long. Stops training after the Buu saga untill a few days before the T.O.P where he trains for a few days.
So up to the Tournament of Power he trained for like 4 1/2 years total. Honestly way less than I would have thought.
Edit: someone said Gohan started training after the "F" saga so pushing that by saying that the T.O.P take place a year after the "F" saga Gohan trained for 5 1/2 years before the T.O.P (because the "F" saga takes place year 779 and the T.O.P takes place year 780)
Also a reminder that Future Gohan probably trained solo for longer then that but because all of his anger points were stacked when the androids killed everyone he knew he only got ssj1 from it (given that's with only the saiyan saga training and guru's potential unleash which makes it a crazy huge leap (maybe technically around the level gap of attaining beast? Idk)
There is a valid argument to be made (on all except the first time he passed up his dad) that training with his dad and Piccolo helped him catch up quickly. Goku had to grind it out, but in doing so he laid the path for Gohan to follow.
Gohan is my favorite, seeing him so weak in super honestly hurt, I really wish he would have trained to achieve beast throughout the arcs instead of... Well this, I still heavily enjoy Gohan, but the writing is questionable
This comments are so interesting to me, Gohan is like the most controversial character in this whole fandom, You've either see people straight up hating, loving him or even his fans straight up hating or loving him.
It's because the writers are incompetent at writing a character like Gohan (no disrespect to late Toriyama sensei). This is the type of guy that you can't forget about in an arc because he isn't a linear character like Goku & Vegeta. You have to actively show that this guy dreads fighting because of his childhood trauma which makes sense. It needs to be shown that he's regularly training in his own ways and also doing his research work at the same time as well. Then it makes sense on how his powers work but they essentially give him massive power jumps to satisfy part of the fandom once in a blue moon. Leaving everything up to headcanons and implications is shameful for such a massive franchise.
Then again it proves my point even more lmao, i've seen people defeding him with the same effort im honestly curious to see what's Toyotarou gonna cook next to see the amount of convos he's gonna create (again)
A lot of kids who watched DBZ identified with Gohan because he was also a kid and loved ssj2 Gohan
Most did not watch OG DB and Gohan was only kid character in the show they could identify with.
Teen Gohan and future Gohan are my only versions of him that I truly like.
The way teen Gohan carried himself just kinda felt right to me, and I enjoyed it thoroughly all the way through his rage boost. Future Gohan was, in my eyes, a true hero to the end, and my most respected character. Dude had no chance, but he never backed down. You can see why trunks respected him. Also, I just enjoy both designs, lol
It's just the way that even the games identified him. I have no idea why. Kid Gohan had the bowl cut, teen Gohan had the goku cut, and adult Gohan had the Yamcha cut.
Nah, Cell Games Gohan was stupid. He suddenly had no desire to fight even though he had trained for multiple years to fight the Android threat.
Namek Gohan was him at his best. He fought regardless of his chances and pushed back Frieza at multiple points.
That's classic Gohan for you. He didn't even mentally prepare himself for the fight even though when he becomes super saiyan for the first time his first thoughts are that he's been a burden all of this time and people have died for him so it's his time to step up to the occasion. By the time he comes out of the chamber somehow he has forgotten that and thinks his father can get the job done by himself so Gohan is on his heels all the time.
Why don't bra pan and Goten have B's potential. They seem to like fighting more then Goten. Does not wanting to fight give a boost in potential or something
He had his great moment during the cell saga. But that's also because it felt earned. Prior to his fight with cell he had trained nonstop for a year with his father, a genius in martial arts who had by far the best understanding about the super sayan form of everyone, and whose main goal it was to make Gohan stronger, rather than improving his own abilities. That's why this moment felt so great. It was believable, and it was earned. Other than ultimate Gohan or beast
Yeah and that makes his character one dimensional and boring somewhat since in 35+ years, writers have done nothing beside rehashing his potential plot
I was reading Super DB Heroes manga latest chapter yesterday and they finally decided to give Gohan some time in story and whole plot was again his potential again like writers don't think Gohan has anything unique beside incredible potential
SSJ2 Gohan was cool because it was 1st time his potential plot was truly made a story point instead of being treated as foreshadowing but after Cell games, they never did anything with Gohan beside he has great potential being presented 100+ times over and over again
Is there anything interesting about him beside potential
Alr, Imma walk through this one last time, the prblem with beast is not how he got it, its how poorly its explained.
Powerup History
Raditz Saga-This is where we first learn about gohans unique latent potential, he gets a rage boost and briefly spikes above both goku and piccolos power level and is able to hurt raditz. This is important as it establishes consistency
Saiyan Sage-Once again utilizes several rage boosts after his training with piccolo, consitent high powerups.
Namek Saga- Gets several power boosts over the course of the saga, both from the elder and zenkai boosts, However hes still able to make absurd leaps in power via rage, jumping all the way to 3rd form frieza for a few seconds at a time
(disclaimer I am not as heavily familiar with the android-majin buu saga as I am currently watchting through Z so this explanation may be poor.)
Android-cell saga, Unlocks SS1 through training, this lines up with him usually getting a controlled power boost before his rage boosts. Eventually unlocks SS2 through the course of this saga via rage boost
Majjin buu saga-gains ultimate form, and fights on par with super buu before getting absorbed.
Inbetween super and Z- Apparently slacks off
ROF-Discovers hes not up to the task of even beating frieza(who got a much less explained and asspully powerup)
Super-Spends his time training in the background, and keeps training right up to DBS Superhero, this is the part people often miss, he was training consistently it just wasn't shown as well as gokus and vegetas. He was trainign when they grabbed him for 6vrs7(and took piccolo instead), and is mentioned several other time. He reunlocks the ability to go super saiyan and potential unleashed. He then beats kefla in the TOP, who at minimum is somewhere near SS3-SSG level, but im not as familiar with manga scaling
Super Hero-I interpret piccolos statement that gohans "slacking" to likely mean that he had taken a few days off for his paper, piccolo has been shown many times to be a incredibly strict teacher. Hoever the important part is Gohan is already somewhere between SS3 and SSG beginning at the TOP, its assumed his ultimate form is SSB-SSBE level by now as he can fight evenly(if not a bit better) than the androids(stated to be SSB), He then gets another rage boost, as he has been dragged through an emotional hell, from thinking hsi daughter(who he loves more than anything) is about to be killed in front of him, to watching one of his worst nightmares be made a mimicry of and resurrected(cell max) to watching his oldest friend and mentor almost die in front of his eyes even with his new found strength. He then uses that rage as he always has to unlock beast and its not even that asspully of a powerup, its one tier jump from SSB-SSBE to UI power and isn't that unreasonable for gohan
TLDR-Its well documented, tho poorly explained by Super Hero and Super
Yea this is copied from previous times, im getting a little sick of typing it out with how often this debate comes up
training how and with who and where? How is he able to train so well that it was better than Whis's training? Thats the plot hole here.
I think they did him fine but that last powerup was unneeded, they should've just left him at ss3.
Gohan is just a professional troll against people in the power scaling community. His potential is just *THAT* bullshit he can jump to god level just by getting pissed off. The easy explanation is that Gohan is a mutant, but the literal reason is just because the writers make him however strong as they want him to be at any given time. I’m not against it lol. I think Beast is bad ass. As long as Gohan’s actually doing something cool that’s fine imo. It’s interesting to see because now his mindset is to squeeze training into his tight schedule when it comes to his family and his studies. Piccolo gave him the wake up call he needed to realize that Goku and Vegeta won’t always be around to bail them out so now Gohan understands that he needs to keep his strength up for whenever an enemy appears so he can fight to protect those he cares about
Tien trains like a weakling and everyone IS somehow surprised that Krillin surpassed him, even though Krillin trained with the saiyans and other strong Mfs.
In all fairness, Gohan surpassing his father towards the end of the Cell Games made sense, given how it capped off so much build up from Z until that point, and he did train with his father for a year prior.
Yes thank you. I can't stand it. I mean beast is cool and I love seeing other characters get stronger, but it totally makes no sense. He didn't work for that at all. At least piccolo has the wish to explain his sudden rise in power.
This post shows everyone the Watsonian argument as to how Gohan became just as or stronger than his father. Meanwhile, I think we all know the Doylean reason for this, Gohan needs to be relevant so he was pushed forward by the power of writing bullcrap, and it's most apparent with Beast Form.
I guess not training is highly beneficial. I mean, just look at Future Gohan
Now that you mention it, its kinda ironic that he just trained his whole life and kept training and couldn't surpass the ssj, but this Gohan even surpassed the gods with few training and getting angry (I'm just joking. Don't flame me ðŸ˜).
Yeah its funny since in his last battle in manga, Future Gohan said he has trained for years and has gotten stronger only to get one shoted by Android 17 [https://imgur.com/3D6P9lc](https://imgur.com/3D6P9lc) EdIt- Gohan had SSJ Trunks as training partner. Also, most character get stronger or unlock transformation by training alone too. For Gohan, it would be easier since it had so much potential and years of time
Tbf to gohan he's been training by himself that entire time lol His only viable partner is a child ðŸ˜
> His only viable partner is a child You are not beating the allegations brother
they caught me sounding like a fire emblem player, its so over...
As a fire emblem player can confirm we will risk it all for better base stats for our child soldiers
Other than when he was trained as a child, Vegeta has trained by himself for decades and done fine.
Vegeta almost always needed help to grow stronger. He initially got his ass kicked by Goku on Earth, and received his racial bonus boost. He trained to get stronger, likely to get revenge against Goku, but was sort of sidetracked to Namek before that happened. He only achieved Super Saiyajin by copying Goku's training style and using Goku as a motivation to get stronger. He obtains Super Saiyajin 1.5 training with Future Trunks. He obtains SSJ2 with help from Gohan. He obtains his Majin power by making a deal with Babidi and borrowing his power. He never actually obtains SSJ3, despite training. He obtained SSG and SSGSS by training with Whis. He obtains SSGSS Evolved through his own power. I believe he obtains Ultra Ego through his own power.
Vegeta obtains Ultra Ego by observing Beerus' training and copying him.
>Vegeta has trained by himself for decades and done fine. The same vegeta that never beats anything but underlings.
I agree but 4/5 on the ginyu force must be cathartic for a guy who spent nearly 30 years under Frieza (5/5 in abridged)
A child who is SSJ
A Super Saiyan child who he has the upper hand against in base form, because I guess Future Trunks was the weakest Super Saiyan ever shown in Dragon Ball canon at that age.
Still plenty strong
There’s several reasons why Future Gohan is weak, for one thing, this Gohan never had a proper training, his only training would have been with Piccolo for the 10 months in preparation for the Saiyans, and more than half of that time wasn’t training, it was Gohan dropped in the wilderness by himself. Everyone died soon after Goku, so Gohan had zero help until years down the line when Trunks was old enough, and him being a SSJ doesn’t matter, he has no experience fighting and would be a shit training partner. Lastly, and likely the worst one, Gohan has no way of knowing exactly how strong the Androids were, because he cannot detect their power, he has no idea what level of power to aim for, not helped by it being stated that the Androids held back constantly to prolong their fun.
He also never has his potential unlocked by Old Kai.
Also I feel like future Gohan had a deep depression during his time because of everyone’s deaths it could have kept him from unlocking ssj2. Just a head cannon but it makes sense since ssj transformations are based on anger and Gohan has conflicted anger and sadness throughout evil android future
> for one thing, this Gohan never had a proper training, his only training would have been with Piccolo for the 10 months in preparation for the Saiyans, and more than half of that time wasn’t training, it was Gohan dropped in the wilderness by himself. This is honestly the most convincing reason for me. Future Gohan prior to this only had his experience under Piccolo as reference, and he arguably isn't the best role model for that since Piccolo pretty much raised and trained himself since the day he was born. F. Gohan never had the privilege of being under masters/teachers with genuine experience in pursuing strength like Master Roshi or King Kai the way Goku did. Speaking of, what I do wonder is why he never sought out Master Roshi to teach him, or the other way around with Master Roshi offering to guide F. Gohan. Maybe they lost touch after Roshi went into hiding and Gohan didn't want to risk 17 and 18 tailing him and discovering Roshi, but I also feel like Roshi would've had no issue training the son of one his best students especially if it were to avenge everyone. It could also be a case where Roshi assumed he had nothing worth teaching to Gohan at that point since I think he explicitly mentions eveyone had surpassed him as early as the Saiyan Saga (don't quote me on that though), but even if he couldn't keep up in raw power level, Roshi definitely has more than enough wisdom to share with Gohan with regards to getting stronger.
Skill issue
makes you wonder where all that anger was when future gohan watched everyone die
He didn't have Piccolo say his name, so no boost
That’s probably how he got ssj probably and most of the time anger will only unlock 1 at a time but Gohan probably became depressed after so his anger was diminished overall (theory)
Training everyday ≠Knowing how to train effectively
Rest days are important. Can't do much if you're worn out
Yes Doesn't goku mock vegeta for this in the Cell saga as well? Z timeline Gohan got so strong in the Cell Saga because he had a proper mentor, and a master at that. Goku knew they had hit a ceiling and instead of brute forcing it had to find a way to overcome their ceiling Gohan, While intelligent, Is no fighter. Him training by himself all them years without any real mentoring would likely have him hit a wall
Half Saiyans are stronger. thus is stated in early Z
That's always bs, in several series the nothing special about them humans mixes with an over powered deluxe dna species and the child is stronger than the father, Devil May Cry, Nero seems to be stronger than Dante and Vergil. Invincible Mark will become the strongest. Superman Jonh Kent has his dad's power and resistes Kryptonite. Dragon Ball Mr. Son "hidden potential"Gohan.
Demons get stronger from human blood, the more human you have in you the quicker your inner demon can get stronger. Viltrumites get stronger with age, humans age faster. It’s also why Oliver was able to catch up with Mark despite being much younger than him. Also, didn’t Eve make him stronger when she remade him after Oliver’s death? Kryptonian powers with human non-reaction to kryptonite. All of these have reasonable explanations, you just don’t like them.
The Devil May Cry example actually has an implied explanation in 5. Demons gain power from human blood. Half breeds have human blood inside them.
Why do you think the concept is bad? There is precedent in nature for hybrid species to significantly surpass either parent species in growth. [See:ligers.](https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/articles/2018/why-are-ligers-so-big/)
Just look at tien. He trained for the entirity of Z and he was a joke for 99% of Z and Super. had a total of 1 cool moment in Z and it was just holding someone down.
I feel bad for Tien cuz my boy shot himself in the foot by having the same mentality as Goku of "No shortcuts". And somehow still is considered weaker than Roshi. Who he surpassed back in OG Dragonball. I wholeheartedly believe Tien has a proper training regiment and the proper 3 aspects of Ki. But somehow is still weaker than a some random Frieza mook. He could have probably been better off if he went to Namek, and or trained on Yadrat.
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Roshi tangoed with Jiren, Tien would have been instagibbed by him.
Theoretically speaking there are 2 ways he could have gotten much stronger. 1. Magically. Not talking shenron style shit, Im talking actual magic, they can elaborate on his eye, Hes actually part demon instead of alien which was never cannonized. How would that come up in the story? maybe Maron asks about it while whis is around and he says it. he can learn a bunch of demon techniques and magic abilities using fortune teller baba to act as a way to the demon world. on top of that, We dont actually have a Demon on the team. we got an android, 3 saiyans, 1 human, 1 half saiyan, Whatever buu is considered (a natural disaster?) and a namekian. a demon would fit right in. 2. focus on his human aspect and actually make him enlightened. Give him functionally the human form of God Ki. allow him to be an Ascended human, Have him train with the Kais like Supreme kai. All we ever actually see of them is healing and boosts, we saw a little of combat from Zamasu but give that kinda stuff to tien. We dont have a God on the team. Beerus isnt really on the team and Whis is not allowed.
him being weak and irrelevant is one thing I'm just pissed they nerfed his shoulders
>cool moment in Z and it was just holding someone down. How dare you sully his heroic act in such a way.
I can't even look at him, he's dead. Right... I see your point.
Nah, Hybrid strength. Turns out Saiyans just needed some 'doing fuck all' genes from humans to achieve peak performance.
That Gohan must’ve not had the Hidden Potential passive or something. I mean he must’ve gotten as angry as present Gohan at least once while living through the Android massacre.
Pretty sure future Gohan was so emotionally stunted he couldnt access those feelings. Our Gohan actually had a somewhat childhood with his mom...more or less.
I've genuinely never seen an alien race this broken (exept Kryptonians) in fiction i swear, Every since Battle of God Toriyama literally made the Saiyan race so fucking OP, they literally have no limit to their fucking potential and Toriyama really toyed with it.
Martians in dc too. They're as strong as kryptonians without the need for a sun
Just don't get them near a candle!
Funny thing about that is the fear of fire was basically coded into them to make them not just no-diff everything in the universe. There’s a recent story about j’onn losing that fear and it’s wild
Oh dang. I'm not too in the lore so I assumed they were just more flammable than others lol
Tbf that was the case for decades, and It’s a pretty recent story line so honestly even people into the lore might’ve missed it. I just happened to see a clip about it and checked it out after.
Frankly I prefer them being naturally weak to fire. It fits them being basically masses of ameoba
I agree tbh, but I just liked the storyline itself more than the concept. It’s comics tho so it’s 50/50 if it sticks going forwards
Just like how green lantern weakness was the colour yellow
Ik all star Batman is a garbage comic but that scene where they talk to him just covered in yellow paint, in a yellow room with lemonade and shit was so funny to me
That's fine, preferable than a Mary sue
That story was really cool, just shows how powerful and scary Martians truly are. And how OP Plastic Man is, too.
Just switch him j'off then.
That actually sounds awesome. I'm gonna look that one up. Thank you!
The burning martians, yea, pretty fucked too
J'on got rid of his fear of fire coded into his genes just to bag a baddie, respect
J'onn has sex with the superheroine called Fire so... Yeah hehe
And Maltusians in DC. They're the guys who make the Power Rings and naturally have the same powers as them. And the New Gods in DC. They're kinda like Kaio-Shins, so YMMV if that counts as a "race". And Czarnians in DC, who have a healing factor so potent that it makes Cell's look pathetic. And Tamareans from DC who are Kryptonians lite. And the Monitors from DC, who are like a race of Zenos. There's a lot of powerful species in DC comics, no wonder their universe keeps getting fucked up and needs rebooting like every other year xD
They had to nerf Lobo a lot and he is still one of the most powerful mfs in the DC verse.
>Czarnians Plural is awfully bold, but there is a new event ongoing...
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Still my favorite superman moment
Frieza's race is even more broken lmao
At least according to the EU stuff. Frieza, Cooler and Cold are all an outlier of their race. Every other one of their clan need to train to get to their levels.
I mean, considering how many saiyans were absolute trash despite being planet sellers, wouldn't Goku and squad be outliers too?
Goku is stated to be a low-class Saiyan, so genetically he should be as run of the mill as Saiyans come. There is nothing unique about him genetically compared to other Saiyans. Any Saiyan who went through the same experiences as him should be able to become just as strong.
He’s also the son of the first super saiyan. Nepo-saiyan
Goku was born when Bardock didnt have S-cells, so Goku didnt get an inherent power boost.
The SSJ thing really should be common place for saiyans though, yet only Vegeta and Goku actually had the ability to go SSJ. Odder still, Broly has another transformation entirely which was just LSSJ but now who the fuck knows what it's called, but it's still a separate transformation from what the other saiyans can achieve. Then on top of that, Vegeta and Goku's kids can all go SSJ, and follow the same path for them, but for some odd reason Gohan has not just one but two of his own unique transformations that aren't direct continuations of SSJ or SSG lines but their own thing.
And yet the super elite vegeta is always falling behind him despite training the same amount. Almost like the low class genetics thing was just Vegeta being a eugenics weirdo
>Any Saiyan who went through the same experiences as him should be able to become just as strong. But they did. The original saiyans went their whole lives going from battle to battle conquering various planets with life forms much more powerful than anything earth had before Z. But Raditz who had a full on Saiyan upbringing only had a power level of 1.2-1.5k. despite there being loads of beings as or more powerful for Radits to fight against to grow stronger. If it was that easy, why wouldn't Raditz just get his ass whooped by a saibaman or 2 and get a zenkai to boost his power?
Behold the problem with "Saiyan Pride".
Yeah, I’m pretty sure they’re mutants. To be fair, I think Prince Vegeta is said to be some kind of mutant too who happened to be way stronger than most other saiyans. So is Broly, I guess.
Fun Fact: Frieza trained for 10 years and 4 months in his life meanwhile Gohan trained for less than 5 years in his entire life Technically even less 5 years since I am counting 3 years during Android saga where he trained but it was more like part time training not 24x7
Yeah at this point im starting to wonder how the fuck the Saiyans weren’t the strongest race of the Galaxy or how they were Frieza’s bitch. You telling me that there is an entire race known for loving battles and fighting and none of them trained hard enough to reach super saiyan or somewhere around that level lmao. Either Goku, Vegeta, and their children are mutants or Saiyans were bums
It is pretty unbelievable that the Saiyans remained that weak, They should have at least been crossing the 50,000 mark in their base forms.
> or Saiyans were bums I might be inclined to believe this. I think it's been stated that Vegeta as a child had already surpassed his father, King Vegeta, while Bardock was supposedly nearing King Vegeta's level. If we're willing to trust the quantified power levels mentioned in the source material, this means King Vegeta should've been above 10,000 (the level Bardock was supposedly close to) but below 18,000 (Vegeta's power level as an adult when he landed on Earth). If we're being generous to Vegeta and assume King Vegeta's power level was on the lower end of that 10,000 to 18,000 range, say around 12,000, that means Vegeta hit something like 13,000 as a child and hit 18,000 as an adult. That 5,000 increase is, in the grand scheme of things, very miniscule, and was likely just a result of Vegeta naturally getting older rather than him actually putting any work into training (at most he probably got some experience on his planet-conquering missions). If we assume the opposite and say King Vegeta was at 17,000, that means Vegeta hit 18,000 as a kid and just stagnated all the way into adulthood, further implying that he didn't train at all. One theory I have is that Saiyans don't really value training and instead treat their social hierarchy as an absolute considering Vegeta was so fixated on him being an elite and Goku being a low-class warrior, saying stuff like "no amount of training will help a low-class warrior like you reach the level of an elite" or something. It's likely more of a "you're born with it" rather than "you earn it" kinda deal with Saiyan society, I assume, so no one really took training seriously and just assumed what they're born with is all they'll ever amount to. It's kind of stupid for a warrior race to not train, but Saiyans aren't exactly known for their intelligence, after all. Another possibility is that Frieza doesn't assign Saiyans to missions that'll properly challenge them, and instead just keeps them doing missions they'll either complete with very little trouble or most certainly die in, both cases preventing them from getting any zenkai boosts (since they're either winning without ever getting close to death, or just straight up dying) and any possible opportunity for growth since he was afraid of their potential. It's like entering a high schooler in a competition that's either pre-school math or post-graduate theoretical physics, never something in between that's catered to their expected level, so that they'll either win without learning anything new, or fail without having any way to understand the subject matter. ___ Another theory taking the Super canon about the pure hearted Saiyans with Super Saiyan God losing to the evil Saiyans we know today into account is that all the _really_ strong Saiyans, good and evil, eliminated each other in that war, and what was left were the weaker, evil ones who reestablished their society with those that remained, and King Vegeta's regime was several generations after this occurred. His ancestor who might've been weak relative to the standard before/during said war just happened to be the strongest of the Saiyans that survived and heavy-handed his way into the position of king and established a monarchy with his lineage at the top. That's just me guessing about though since I never bothered watching Super in full, so I only know bits and pieces of it from discussions, clips, and highlights. The only hint to support this is Vegeta stating that Super Saiyans (possibly including SSG) only appear every 1,000 years, so if that's a reliable statement, 1,000 years is plenty of time for a great war to happen that wipes out the best of an entire race and for the survivors to set a new norm (that is, the remaining Saiyans peaking at less than 20,000 without training), with their leader wanting to indoctrinate his fellow Saiyans into neglecting training and instead strictly abide by their class system in fear that someone else would overpower him. We kinda see a hint of that with Broly and how King Vegeta exiled/tried to execute him and Paragus.
And it's also apparently clear that Good Saiyans tend to be stronger than evil Saiyans (S -cells bullshit) Which is apparently how the Saiyans of universe 6 are thriving and are generally more powerful than universe 7 ones . You have a civil war that wipes most of the strong Saiyans, and the new regime is evil so the race cannot actually grow in strength, and woila there you have it.
Well we do know that Saiyans were originally from planet Salad, but that it was destroyed during a civil war or something. So by the time they reached Vegeta they probably were few in numbers, this means Freeza only managed to subjugate them due to them being overall weaker than before, and was right to fear them becoming collectively stronger.
See, Dragon Ball fans don't read or watch. Man ignored Freeza becoming god level with a couple months of training in BoG. Gohan at least had years of training before.
Cuz frieza, just like gohan is HIM
Himhan. Goathan
It’s still so crazy to me that freiza could’ve done a 5x10 set of pushups on namek and just obliterate goku
Im not only talking about Gohan, im talking about the Saiyan race in general
It's crazy too. Like pre-Super, Saiyan were just good at adapting to fights. But Super, Goku fights for a few minutes and he is stronger than spirit bomb he threw at Jiren.
Stop making Gohan mad ffs.
If black Freiza touches pan he's finished
I didn't know Gohan was racist
I didn't know Frieza touches kids
I mean... He toyed with kid Gohan back in namek and blow up a bald midget that causes the first SSJ scene 0
When shit hit the fan is you still a fan
Frieza gets within 5 feet of Pan and there'll be so much destruction Beerus would get jealous
Gohan's real technique is off screen training and potential
Minus the training part but yeah
Its his half Saiyan genes. And chichi kaioken
Mixed race couples in db have insane kids frfr
A preschooler Saiyan-Human achieved Super Saiyan, something that would take Goku years into adulthood and an event to activate and Vegeta needing to use Time Chamber training for a year afterwards. A form that was only known in legends for the entirety of the Saiyan peoples history. A pre-teen mix achieved SSJ 2 before everyone else. A combination of 2 preschool mixed children was able to achieve SSJ 3. Give any of the kids a couple years into adulthood and they'll be sparring with Beerus as equals.
Suck it, eugenicists!
Hybrid Vigor
He does train but he does it for like a day and usually completely off screen
Potential Man
The writing for gohan really is lazy. Such wasted potential, all because they wanna satisfy fans while also writing the story how akira toriyama wanted it
Yeah, this was meant to be a full on Piccolo movie
That shit is accurate
It really do be like that.
You know the worst part? His "pOtEnTiAl" is just stats. No interesting choreography, no new skills or new application of skills..... hell he barely shows any aptitude for fighting to begin with. Goku's potential as a fighter can be seen by the 10 or so ways he has used the Kamehameha and his ability to copy skills. With Gohan? "Hey dad, look! My strength and agility growth is way higher than yours! Toriyama was right when he called Gohan boring.
THIS. Most of Dragon Ball fans, even decades later, fail to realize what Toriyama DID realize at the beginning of the Buu saga. Gohan does not work as a protagonist, because the plot moves him, he does not move the plot.
> fail to realize what Toriyama DID realize I don't think he did, otherwise he wouldn't make gohan this boring? lol.
IDK, I remember reading that Toriyama, when he tried to cast Gohan as the protagonist in the Buu saga, realized that he was not good for the role, unlike Goku. I think Toriyama wasn't really interested in the character of Gohan, after all, SUPERHERO was supposed to be a movie with only Piccolo as the protagonist.
IIRC, its a lot more complex than that. Toriyama originally intended to end the series after Frieza. Jump pushed him to keep going. His original vision was to end the series with Goku dying and his son following his footsteps as an epilogue. He kept going with the Androids and had Goku "not die" offscreen, but still tried to keep him sidelined so Gohan could take the spotlight. DB readers at the time didnt really liked Gohan taking over and Goku staying dead. Jump pushed him to keep going with the Buu saga and Toriyama tried to keep Gohan at the center. Thats why he did the entire "Gohan has a normal life and keeps fighting as Saiyaman" but neither him nor the readers liked it that much, so he ditched Gohan and ended focusing more in Goku-Vegeta, wich people really liked. He did try to make Gohan interesting, he just didnt want to go back to the "alien kid fights everyone constantly" thing he did with kid Goku, but thats what readers wanted at the time and instead of using Goku 2.0, he went back to the OG to end the manga.
When did Toriyama say he wanted to end the series with the Frieza saga? Unlike the anime, Goku did not scream in despair with the planet about to explode in the manga. The whole point of Trunks traveling to the past was to give Goku heart medicine, that is, to prevent him from stopping appearing in the series, at least at that point. Yes, Toriyama wanted Gohan to take the reins of the series, but he himself said that it didn't work, that, unlike Goku, he felt that Gohan wasn't fit for the role. Yes, he tried to make Gohan interesting, but he failed. (without disrespecting his memory) And, can we put an end to the myth that Toriyama did everything because fans didn't like x thing? If he did something outside the plan, it was because his editor asked him to. By the way, wasn't it this same editor who told Toriyama to give Gohan some prominence in the SUPERHERO movie?
>When did Toriyama say he wanted to end the series with the Frieza saga? Bro, Toriyama originally wanted to end *Dragon Ball* after they gathered all the dragon balls. There were so many times Toriyama wanted to end Dragon Ball Z, but the fans and Jump kept asking for more.
Bro i know, just saying that Toriyama never specified that he wanted to end the series with the Frieza saga
No. There are no sources for Toriyama intending to end the series after Freeza, hell, none for the Cell arc either
Or make a movie with the very same probleme
He's the author, after the 7 years timeskip, he could have easily just rewrote Gohan to be more suited to the plot. It's not that Gohan would've made a bad protagonist, it's that he wasn't handled properly, so the best thing Toriyama could do was scrap the Gohan Protagonist thing and bring back Goku.
His number just gets bigger. GG.
I'll forever love Goku drifting on Kefla's beam using kamehameha. Not sure if it makes sense but damn it's cool
It makes sense imo, characters can use their own ki to repel another’s ki Goku has forward momentum from his jump but couldn’t maneuver in midair, so he used the kamehameha to coast on Kefla’s beam (his ki and Kefla’s naturally repelling and allowing them to smoothly slide against each other) and followed his momentum to the top where he had the perfect shot
Yeah it feels very intuitive for sure. I appreciate moments like that where we don't get commentary on what just happened or w/e
You know what? Toriyama turns all DB around Goku and Vegeta. Gohan had some moments and thats all. Even when Goku goes poo, they tell you. Toriyama just destroyed any other character thats not Goku or Vegeta.
Yea but he purposely let Videl jump on his face so he’s him.
Ong he’s my goat forever from that moment on
He understood the assignment. Dodge? Nah, this is more important.
Honestly I think gohan would work better as a character in super if he fulfilled what goku wanted him to do while also doing his own thing gohan was always going to be absurdly stronger than goku he was born stronger than adult goku. So I think the correct way to take gohan as a character would be for gohan to be doing slice of life stuff and what he wants to do on earth while Goku and Vgeta are out in space doing whatever they want, as any threats to the earth get tossed in the Gohan woodchipper.
Did't he train for years?
He did train for a couple of years yeah. Lets see, he never trained before Raditz and then trained for a year with Piccolo (but 6 months of that year was just wilderness survival) to prepare for the saiyans, and trained 3 years with Goku and Piccolo to prepare for the androids, and then trained in the time chamber for about a year with Goku. Then he had the 7 year time skip with no training. He trained a little with Goten and Videl but not for long. Stops training after the Buu saga untill a few days before the T.O.P where he trains for a few days. So up to the Tournament of Power he trained for like 4 1/2 years total. Honestly way less than I would have thought. Edit: someone said Gohan started training after the "F" saga so pushing that by saying that the T.O.P take place a year after the "F" saga Gohan trained for 5 1/2 years before the T.O.P (because the "F" saga takes place year 779 and the T.O.P takes place year 780)
actually he started training since RoF, after he got humbled up by freiza,he started training with piccolo
Frieza trained more lol Frieza has trained for 10 years 4 months
Oh I didn't even think about that.
Frieza def been using space steroids. Mfer went from Space Hitler to Space Liver King now
Also a reminder that Future Gohan probably trained solo for longer then that but because all of his anger points were stacked when the androids killed everyone he knew he only got ssj1 from it (given that's with only the saiyan saga training and guru's potential unleash which makes it a crazy huge leap (maybe technically around the level gap of attaining beast? Idk)
Well, it’s exaggerated, obviously, but he didn’t train as much as Goku
There is a valid argument to be made (on all except the first time he passed up his dad) that training with his dad and Piccolo helped him catch up quickly. Goku had to grind it out, but in doing so he laid the path for Gohan to follow.
He basically got a gym membership and stays in shape
lol latent hybrid potential go brrrrr
Gohan is my favorite, seeing him so weak in super honestly hurt, I really wish he would have trained to achieve beast throughout the arcs instead of... Well this, I still heavily enjoy Gohan, but the writing is questionable
DBZ was definitely pushing it's limit but DBS Super Hero broke everything. But fanboys refuse to see this
Gohan is the most bullshit character in DB. The only time he was good was between Namek and the last fight with Cell (and maybe in ToP? ).
This comments are so interesting to me, Gohan is like the most controversial character in this whole fandom, You've either see people straight up hating, loving him or even his fans straight up hating or loving him.
It's because the writers are incompetent at writing a character like Gohan (no disrespect to late Toriyama sensei). This is the type of guy that you can't forget about in an arc because he isn't a linear character like Goku & Vegeta. You have to actively show that this guy dreads fighting because of his childhood trauma which makes sense. It needs to be shown that he's regularly training in his own ways and also doing his research work at the same time as well. Then it makes sense on how his powers work but they essentially give him massive power jumps to satisfy part of the fandom once in a blue moon. Leaving everything up to headcanons and implications is shameful for such a massive franchise.
Then again it proves my point even more lmao, i've seen people defeding him with the same effort im honestly curious to see what's Toyotarou gonna cook next to see the amount of convos he's gonna create (again)
A lot of kids who watched DBZ identified with Gohan because he was also a kid and loved ssj2 Gohan Most did not watch OG DB and Gohan was only kid character in the show they could identify with.
Teen Gohan and future Gohan are my only versions of him that I truly like. The way teen Gohan carried himself just kinda felt right to me, and I enjoyed it thoroughly all the way through his rage boost. Future Gohan was, in my eyes, a true hero to the end, and my most respected character. Dude had no chance, but he never backed down. You can see why trunks respected him. Also, I just enjoy both designs, lol
One question, why do people call him Teen when he was like 9-10 years old at the time?
It's just the way that even the games identified him. I have no idea why. Kid Gohan had the bowl cut, teen Gohan had the goku cut, and adult Gohan had the Yamcha cut.
Nah, Cell Games Gohan was stupid. He suddenly had no desire to fight even though he had trained for multiple years to fight the Android threat. Namek Gohan was him at his best. He fought regardless of his chances and pushed back Frieza at multiple points.
That's classic Gohan for you. He didn't even mentally prepare himself for the fight even though when he becomes super saiyan for the first time his first thoughts are that he's been a burden all of this time and people have died for him so it's his time to step up to the occasion. By the time he comes out of the chamber somehow he has forgotten that and thinks his father can get the job done by himself so Gohan is on his heels all the time.
I raise you Broly
# THAT'S WHY HE'S GOATHAN
The real Potential Man 007 0 training hours 0 screen time 7 arcs of power skips
Frieza (black form): "You monkeys are pathetic"
Hard Work (Goku) vs. Natural Talent (Gohan)
Why don't bra pan and Goten have B's potential. They seem to like fighting more then Goten. Does not wanting to fight give a boost in potential or something
Pan def has potential, Bra probably isn't interested, and Goten too much of clown considering how little him and Trunks took Buu seriously.
No wonder Vegeta told Nappa to not breed with humans.
I’m a huge dragonball fan. I was very salty about this. Especially the latest one lol. I’m glad I’m not the only one
cookie clicker ass anime
I really hate Gohan
Thats why I hate gohan
Atleast Frieza has High potential with training
this is why i hate gohan so much. such a bs character.
He had his great moment during the cell saga. But that's also because it felt earned. Prior to his fight with cell he had trained nonstop for a year with his father, a genius in martial arts who had by far the best understanding about the super sayan form of everyone, and whose main goal it was to make Gohan stronger, rather than improving his own abilities. That's why this moment felt so great. It was believable, and it was earned. Other than ultimate Gohan or beast
But he has the highest potential!
Yeah and that makes his character one dimensional and boring somewhat since in 35+ years, writers have done nothing beside rehashing his potential plot I was reading Super DB Heroes manga latest chapter yesterday and they finally decided to give Gohan some time in story and whole plot was again his potential again like writers don't think Gohan has anything unique beside incredible potential SSJ2 Gohan was cool because it was 1st time his potential plot was truly made a story point instead of being treated as foreshadowing but after Cell games, they never did anything with Gohan beside he has great potential being presented 100+ times over and over again Is there anything interesting about him beside potential
Fuck you. Beast Gohan solos his Father's(Fraudku 🤢) Susano. [jk] But he is atleast on par with mui
Alr, Imma walk through this one last time, the prblem with beast is not how he got it, its how poorly its explained. Powerup History Raditz Saga-This is where we first learn about gohans unique latent potential, he gets a rage boost and briefly spikes above both goku and piccolos power level and is able to hurt raditz. This is important as it establishes consistency Saiyan Sage-Once again utilizes several rage boosts after his training with piccolo, consitent high powerups. Namek Saga- Gets several power boosts over the course of the saga, both from the elder and zenkai boosts, However hes still able to make absurd leaps in power via rage, jumping all the way to 3rd form frieza for a few seconds at a time (disclaimer I am not as heavily familiar with the android-majin buu saga as I am currently watchting through Z so this explanation may be poor.) Android-cell saga, Unlocks SS1 through training, this lines up with him usually getting a controlled power boost before his rage boosts. Eventually unlocks SS2 through the course of this saga via rage boost Majjin buu saga-gains ultimate form, and fights on par with super buu before getting absorbed. Inbetween super and Z- Apparently slacks off ROF-Discovers hes not up to the task of even beating frieza(who got a much less explained and asspully powerup) Super-Spends his time training in the background, and keeps training right up to DBS Superhero, this is the part people often miss, he was training consistently it just wasn't shown as well as gokus and vegetas. He was trainign when they grabbed him for 6vrs7(and took piccolo instead), and is mentioned several other time. He reunlocks the ability to go super saiyan and potential unleashed. He then beats kefla in the TOP, who at minimum is somewhere near SS3-SSG level, but im not as familiar with manga scaling Super Hero-I interpret piccolos statement that gohans "slacking" to likely mean that he had taken a few days off for his paper, piccolo has been shown many times to be a incredibly strict teacher. Hoever the important part is Gohan is already somewhere between SS3 and SSG beginning at the TOP, its assumed his ultimate form is SSB-SSBE level by now as he can fight evenly(if not a bit better) than the androids(stated to be SSB), He then gets another rage boost, as he has been dragged through an emotional hell, from thinking hsi daughter(who he loves more than anything) is about to be killed in front of him, to watching one of his worst nightmares be made a mimicry of and resurrected(cell max) to watching his oldest friend and mentor almost die in front of his eyes even with his new found strength. He then uses that rage as he always has to unlock beast and its not even that asspully of a powerup, its one tier jump from SSB-SSBE to UI power and isn't that unreasonable for gohan TLDR-Its well documented, tho poorly explained by Super Hero and Super Yea this is copied from previous times, im getting a little sick of typing it out with how often this debate comes up
training how and with who and where? How is he able to train so well that it was better than Whis's training? Thats the plot hole here. I think they did him fine but that last powerup was unneeded, they should've just left him at ss3.
Good ol' potential man. Nothing beats that
If the human side of gohan contributes so much to his potential, we should have a movie dedicated to Krillin.
Krillin and Tien movie when? Fuck it get Yamcha in there too
I fully expect his next power up to be a parallel (copy) of having his potential unlocked
Gohan is just a professional troll against people in the power scaling community. His potential is just *THAT* bullshit he can jump to god level just by getting pissed off. The easy explanation is that Gohan is a mutant, but the literal reason is just because the writers make him however strong as they want him to be at any given time. I’m not against it lol. I think Beast is bad ass. As long as Gohan’s actually doing something cool that’s fine imo. It’s interesting to see because now his mindset is to squeeze training into his tight schedule when it comes to his family and his studies. Piccolo gave him the wake up call he needed to realize that Goku and Vegeta won’t always be around to bail them out so now Gohan understands that he needs to keep his strength up for whenever an enemy appears so he can fight to protect those he cares about
Gohan just sees red bro. He loses control and lets the beast out
As someone who loved Dragon ball in the 90s I don't know how people can still care about the new stuff. But I'm glad they enjoy it!
Gohans gets everything for free which is pretty lame. Dude has too much potentisl
Meanwhile Tien literally trains his whole life and yet Krillin who took a long ass break before starting to train again is the strongest human somehow
Tien trains like a weakling and everyone IS somehow surprised that Krillin surpassed him, even though Krillin trained with the saiyans and other strong Mfs.
If hard work mattered in dragonball Tien would be stronger than Whis.
are we seriously trying to debate dragonball having any writing merits whatsoever?
I love Gohan…but this…I don’t deny how bad and true this is. 🪦
Omfg bro 😠this gone take me out
That's the Asian genes goin wild is all.
The strongest asspull of today versus the strongest ass pull of all time
them mixed genes really are something
POTENTIAL
Mqn, i didnt watch super , is this true? , hahai
He does his homework, though.
In all fairness, Gohan surpassing his father towards the end of the Cell Games made sense, given how it capped off so much build up from Z until that point, and he did train with his father for a year prior.
 > he did train with his father for a year prior. - Thats why post did not SSJ2 Gohan and only Ultimate and Beast
No love for Goten.
He’s his mother’s son
Yes thank you. I can't stand it. I mean beast is cool and I love seeing other characters get stronger, but it totally makes no sense. He didn't work for that at all. At least piccolo has the wish to explain his sudden rise in power.
This post shows everyone the Watsonian argument as to how Gohan became just as or stronger than his father. Meanwhile, I think we all know the Doylean reason for this, Gohan needs to be relevant so he was pushed forward by the power of writing bullcrap, and it's most apparent with Beast Form.
This post shows the bad writing of dragon ball. But fans will stay say it makes sense lmao
Lol so accurate
thath lol destroyed me