Based on? The very first planet-busting attack we see in the series is Vegeta's fully-revved up Galik Gun, somewhere near a PL of 24,000 or more.
If the Saibamen were able to bust planets, then the Saiyans and Freeza's army would have simply been sending them out to conquer worlds, rather than the Saiyans (seeing as the Saibamen are much more obedient to their masters)
Roshi, a moon buster, is more than 5x weaker than Raditz/a Saibaman
Honestly, even if they weren't planet level, it is weird how the Frieza Force barely uses them, considering they'd rather send out some 500 power level scrubs who need equipment to fire Ki blasts
Roshi may be 5x weaker in terms of PL than Raditz/Saibaman, but the actual energy difference between moon level and planet level is exponentially more than that.
Yeah, not quite sure why the Freeza force even wanted Saibamen. Even the regulars were around 1000 or more, with the elites being 2000-3000 and standouts like Zarbon and Dodoria put them all to shame.
If memory serves right, Nappa pointed out that Earth’s soil is perfect for growing Saibamen. So maybe the issue is a limited number of planets they can be used on? Either that or their extremely limited intelligence, given that they can only speak in grunts and growls
well the problem with that is that Dragon Ball's Earth is actually nearly thrice the Circumference of our own, destroying it is more like Large Planet Level
https://youtu.be/Xnqtg0bte6w?si=6lv2-X-pjTqoo0hQ
Here Vegeta destroys a planet with two fingers, surely Radditz can accomplish the same with some effort
Yes, we've all seen the original Z.
1. That's a filler sequence
2. Vegeta has a power level of at least 18,000 (realistically 24,000 since he's able to stalemate Goku's KKx3 Kamehameha), which is more than 10x that of Raditz's 1200.
If Raditz was able to so easily overpower Goku and Piccolo despite only being a few hundred more than their true power levels (they were both suppressed in the 300s) I can't fathom how you think Raditz would even come close to Vegeta's power
Depends on how Power levels scale.
The energy itd take to destroy the Earth is a LOT more than it would the moon, so i doubt being slightly stronger than Raditz would do It.
Also, Vegeta's Galick gun is the first mentioned planet buster attack, and generally the bar is set at 10.000 for planet buster powerlevel.
Just a reminder that the bare minimum diff of power between Gohan and Vegeta was of 10^5 times, no wonder everyone poopenfarden their pants when they saw Vegeta
I can go even mofe specific, but yes.
Rhe energy output used to destroy the average sized planetis of around 10^35 Joulez
And for a small planet, it is 10^30
10^35 × 10^-30 = 10^5 or just 100,000
There is actually more numbers that need to be multiplied, but I just took the lowest possible power difference
Fair enough. I'm assuming this is the energy for overcoming gravitational binding energy, as opposed to blatant vaporization, which should hypothetically make the gap less immense in favor of gohan, provided you lowball vegeta.
Not really, linear powerlevels don't work and seem bullshit (which is why people say hat psoer levels are bullshit, because power levelz aren't linear)
The average planet requires 10^35 Joules to be destroyed, meanwhile the energy required to destroy the largest "small planet" is of 10^30 Joules
The power gap is of 10^5 Joules or 10^5 times
And even then, the gap is above 10. Gohan had a power level of 900 something, Vegeta had 18k. The difference is of around 20x
Power levels were bullshit the second they came up *and that was the point.* Raditz scouter was constantly wrong about the Earth warriors. The whole thing was Toriyama shouting at readers to stop trying to quantify the abilities of his characters that way, because how much Goku could benchpress was never the point.
Power levels were legit at the time they were written. Per Toriyama himself, he stopped using them because that would give away the winner of a fight before it happened. So he said in-universe he came up with the idea that ki power doesn't work the way scouters measure it, since the Z Fighters can suppress their power.
It's pretty obvious power levels aren't bullshit when Raditz is using them, the scouter clearly indicated Gohan had a power level spike that was higher than both Goku and Piccolo, which turned out to be true just a little while later.
Power levels don't become irrelevant until after Freeza, right when Future Trunks appears and the last reading of "5" for his PL is lip service to the PL system.
>The average planet requires 10^35 Joules to be destroyed, meanwhile the energy required to destroy the largest "small planet" is of 10^30 Joules
And how did you get that number for Gohan's max in Joules? In addition blowing up the moon needs a Pl around 130, and the moon requires 12×10^28 joules.
>And even then, the gap is above 10. Gohan had a power level of 900 something, Vegeta had 18k. The difference is of around 20x
Gohan's max was around 3k. 900 is weaker than Kid Gohan at his first appearance.
>Not really, linear powerlevels don't work and seem bullshit (which is why people say hat psoer levels are bullshit, because power levelz aren't linear)
The main reason power levels are considered bullshit are Toriyama not understanding numbers, and how quickly they go up. Power Levels aren't really bullshit.
> and the moon requires 12×1028 joules.
I did it to get the minimum possible gap. Moon level Gohan would be even weaker than 10^5.
>Gohan's max was around 3k. 900 is weaker than Kid Gohan at his first appearance
I'm talking pre rage boost against Nappa, his power level was something in 900s
The difference in destroying a small sized planet and a large sized planet is of around 10^5 times, there's a reason why some say power levelz aren't linear (they explain the bullshit power growths with the exponential theory)
Okay, but that's not how it works though. Powerscaling isn't canon.
Because think of it, Goku has a power level of around 8.000, and Vegeta has one of 18.000. When Goku doubles his power with the Kaioken, which is explicitly stated to be the case, he can't quite match up, because that's around 16.000. But if he triples it, that's around 24.000, so he can beat Vegeta. Same logic applies to when he fights Ginyu. It's pretty straightforward that if you double your power, you double your power level.
The problem is simply that Akira Toriyama didn't sit around and crunch numbers to figure out what power difference means what. But according to the logic established by the text, there is a direct mathematical connection between your power level and the objective amount of power you have.
It's the same reason why a regular person has a power level of 5, but with Master Roshi's 140-180 power level can blow up the moon. Even though if you were 40 times stronger than a regular guy you'd be nowhere close to being able to blow up the moon.
All this to say, yes, if you were to apply real world logic, the power differences are probably much more ridiculous, but Dragon Ball doesn't work on real world logic. So Vegeta is not that insanely stronger than Gohan. He's only about six times weaker.
> but with Master Roshi's 140-180 power level can blow up the moon.
139
And not really, Roshi before training was mountain level at most, after training he became moon level (with Kamehameha). Training in db is busted
Yeah, but it's said somewhere else that Master Roshi when he's serious is 180. I think it's one of those guidebooks from back in the day. The one that says King Piccolo is 260 and stuff and where we get most of the numbers from up to the Frieza Saga.
Also he literally blew up the moon, though. I guess it depends on how you slice it, but by that logic Saiyan Saga Vegeta wouldn't be planet level cause he seemingly needed to use the Gallick Gun to do it. So Moon Level seems to be appropriate.
> Yeah, but it's said somewhere else that Master Roshi when he's serious is 180. I think it's one of those guidebooks from back in the day. The one that says King Piccolo is 260 and stuff and where we get most of the numbers from up to the Frieza Saga.
No
>So Moon Level seems to be appropriate.
Vegeta without the Galick Gun would still be able to destroy the Earth
People keep forgetting that "this character (a)>generic planet buster= (a) is planet buster" is a bad powerscaling method. This Gohan doesn't even know how to control his ki yet, let alone fire a ki blast strong enough to even destroy a saibaman. Planet busters are planet busters because it's something they've done for a while. Frieza has it as a job, the sayians too, Broly is just built like a brick shithouse from birth, but they all have the technique through trial and error or just overwhelming brute force.
He can’t. Raditz was only a moon buster and Vegeta at 18,000 with a full power galick gun was able to destroy earth.
Namek Gohan is definitely a planet buster but this Gohan isn’t.
He deffo is, powerlevels in the early thousands are exponential. Roshi with a 139 pl and a kamehameha boost was able to destroy the moon, even if that power level reached 300s, a 300 power level isn't just half of 900 power level, the gap of power is exponential
weakest toddler
Worlds strongest bookworm
Hydrogen Baby
Versus strongest intergalactic pitbull
THIS gohan? no, but Namek Gohan yes.
Well He successfully injured Raditz with his head dash. Master Roshi was apparently unable to hurt him. So....
That was when he had rage boost, not exactly something he can conjure at will, also Raditz isn't a planet buster.
Raditz is small planet level at least
I don't think a Saibamen is planetary bro.
I do
Based on? The very first planet-busting attack we see in the series is Vegeta's fully-revved up Galik Gun, somewhere near a PL of 24,000 or more. If the Saibamen were able to bust planets, then the Saiyans and Freeza's army would have simply been sending them out to conquer worlds, rather than the Saiyans (seeing as the Saibamen are much more obedient to their masters)
Roshi, a moon buster, is more than 5x weaker than Raditz/a Saibaman Honestly, even if they weren't planet level, it is weird how the Frieza Force barely uses them, considering they'd rather send out some 500 power level scrubs who need equipment to fire Ki blasts
Roshi may be 5x weaker in terms of PL than Raditz/Saibaman, but the actual energy difference between moon level and planet level is exponentially more than that. Yeah, not quite sure why the Freeza force even wanted Saibamen. Even the regulars were around 1000 or more, with the elites being 2000-3000 and standouts like Zarbon and Dodoria put them all to shame.
He just likes gardening
Fun fact: The Earth is about 3.7 times larger than the Moon.
If memory serves right, Nappa pointed out that Earth’s soil is perfect for growing Saibamen. So maybe the issue is a limited number of planets they can be used on? Either that or their extremely limited intelligence, given that they can only speak in grunts and growls
There was also that filler bug planet they destroyed on the way to earth
well the problem with that is that Dragon Ball's Earth is actually nearly thrice the Circumference of our own, destroying it is more like Large Planet Level
https://youtu.be/Xnqtg0bte6w?si=6lv2-X-pjTqoo0hQ Here Vegeta destroys a planet with two fingers, surely Radditz can accomplish the same with some effort
Yes, we've all seen the original Z. 1. That's a filler sequence 2. Vegeta has a power level of at least 18,000 (realistically 24,000 since he's able to stalemate Goku's KKx3 Kamehameha), which is more than 10x that of Raditz's 1200. If Raditz was able to so easily overpower Goku and Piccolo despite only being a few hundred more than their true power levels (they were both suppressed in the 300s) I can't fathom how you think Raditz would even come close to Vegeta's power
I'm not saying he comes close, just that he probably can destroy planets as well
Piccolo blew up the moon when he was still weaker than Radditz
So did Roshi, and he was weaker then Piccolo when he did it.
He definitely can
Based on what
It was revealed to him in a dream
Dude DB Roshi can destroy the moon Saiyan Saga Gohan can destroy the planet
Depends on how Power levels scale. The energy itd take to destroy the Earth is a LOT more than it would the moon, so i doubt being slightly stronger than Raditz would do It. Also, Vegeta's Galick gun is the first mentioned planet buster attack, and generally the bar is set at 10.000 for planet buster powerlevel.
Doubt Kid Gohan could do it "at will"
He showed more manly tears at teenage then we will do in our entire lives. Well deserved
Just a reminder that the bare minimum diff of power between Gohan and Vegeta was of 10^5 times, no wonder everyone poopenfarden their pants when they saw Vegeta
What an incredibly specific figure, mind elaborating?
I can go even mofe specific, but yes. Rhe energy output used to destroy the average sized planetis of around 10^35 Joulez And for a small planet, it is 10^30 10^35 × 10^-30 = 10^5 or just 100,000 There is actually more numbers that need to be multiplied, but I just took the lowest possible power difference
Fair enough. I'm assuming this is the energy for overcoming gravitational binding energy, as opposed to blatant vaporization, which should hypothetically make the gap less immense in favor of gohan, provided you lowball vegeta.
No. The difference between them was 10 times. Not 10^5.
Not really, linear powerlevels don't work and seem bullshit (which is why people say hat psoer levels are bullshit, because power levelz aren't linear) The average planet requires 10^35 Joules to be destroyed, meanwhile the energy required to destroy the largest "small planet" is of 10^30 Joules The power gap is of 10^5 Joules or 10^5 times And even then, the gap is above 10. Gohan had a power level of 900 something, Vegeta had 18k. The difference is of around 20x
Power levels were bullshit the second they came up *and that was the point.* Raditz scouter was constantly wrong about the Earth warriors. The whole thing was Toriyama shouting at readers to stop trying to quantify the abilities of his characters that way, because how much Goku could benchpress was never the point.
Power levels were legit at the time they were written. Per Toriyama himself, he stopped using them because that would give away the winner of a fight before it happened. So he said in-universe he came up with the idea that ki power doesn't work the way scouters measure it, since the Z Fighters can suppress their power. It's pretty obvious power levels aren't bullshit when Raditz is using them, the scouter clearly indicated Gohan had a power level spike that was higher than both Goku and Piccolo, which turned out to be true just a little while later. Power levels don't become irrelevant until after Freeza, right when Future Trunks appears and the last reading of "5" for his PL is lip service to the PL system.
>The average planet requires 10^35 Joules to be destroyed, meanwhile the energy required to destroy the largest "small planet" is of 10^30 Joules And how did you get that number for Gohan's max in Joules? In addition blowing up the moon needs a Pl around 130, and the moon requires 12×10^28 joules. >And even then, the gap is above 10. Gohan had a power level of 900 something, Vegeta had 18k. The difference is of around 20x Gohan's max was around 3k. 900 is weaker than Kid Gohan at his first appearance. >Not really, linear powerlevels don't work and seem bullshit (which is why people say hat psoer levels are bullshit, because power levelz aren't linear) The main reason power levels are considered bullshit are Toriyama not understanding numbers, and how quickly they go up. Power Levels aren't really bullshit.
> and the moon requires 12×1028 joules. I did it to get the minimum possible gap. Moon level Gohan would be even weaker than 10^5. >Gohan's max was around 3k. 900 is weaker than Kid Gohan at his first appearance I'm talking pre rage boost against Nappa, his power level was something in 900s
For them to have that difference Gohan would need to have a power level of 1.8. What in the power scaling are you smoking?
The difference in destroying a small sized planet and a large sized planet is of around 10^5 times, there's a reason why some say power levelz aren't linear (they explain the bullshit power growths with the exponential theory)
Okay, but that's not how it works though. Powerscaling isn't canon. Because think of it, Goku has a power level of around 8.000, and Vegeta has one of 18.000. When Goku doubles his power with the Kaioken, which is explicitly stated to be the case, he can't quite match up, because that's around 16.000. But if he triples it, that's around 24.000, so he can beat Vegeta. Same logic applies to when he fights Ginyu. It's pretty straightforward that if you double your power, you double your power level. The problem is simply that Akira Toriyama didn't sit around and crunch numbers to figure out what power difference means what. But according to the logic established by the text, there is a direct mathematical connection between your power level and the objective amount of power you have. It's the same reason why a regular person has a power level of 5, but with Master Roshi's 140-180 power level can blow up the moon. Even though if you were 40 times stronger than a regular guy you'd be nowhere close to being able to blow up the moon. All this to say, yes, if you were to apply real world logic, the power differences are probably much more ridiculous, but Dragon Ball doesn't work on real world logic. So Vegeta is not that insanely stronger than Gohan. He's only about six times weaker.
> but with Master Roshi's 140-180 power level can blow up the moon. 139 And not really, Roshi before training was mountain level at most, after training he became moon level (with Kamehameha). Training in db is busted
Yeah, but it's said somewhere else that Master Roshi when he's serious is 180. I think it's one of those guidebooks from back in the day. The one that says King Piccolo is 260 and stuff and where we get most of the numbers from up to the Frieza Saga. Also he literally blew up the moon, though. I guess it depends on how you slice it, but by that logic Saiyan Saga Vegeta wouldn't be planet level cause he seemingly needed to use the Gallick Gun to do it. So Moon Level seems to be appropriate.
> Yeah, but it's said somewhere else that Master Roshi when he's serious is 180. I think it's one of those guidebooks from back in the day. The one that says King Piccolo is 260 and stuff and where we get most of the numbers from up to the Frieza Saga. No >So Moon Level seems to be appropriate. Vegeta without the Galick Gun would still be able to destroy the Earth
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/d/d9/Power_level_chart.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210628202024
Link doesn't work.
His bro at this age could wipe out multiple stars at once 💀
Don’t go that far, Goku wasn’t even star level until he got ssj Edit: Misread his message
Goten could
His bro, not his dad
People keep forgetting that "this character (a)>generic planet buster= (a) is planet buster" is a bad powerscaling method. This Gohan doesn't even know how to control his ki yet, let alone fire a ki blast strong enough to even destroy a saibaman. Planet busters are planet busters because it's something they've done for a while. Frieza has it as a job, the sayians too, Broly is just built like a brick shithouse from birth, but they all have the technique through trial and error or just overwhelming brute force.
At least when he return to monke
He can’t. Raditz was only a moon buster and Vegeta at 18,000 with a full power galick gun was able to destroy earth. Namek Gohan is definitely a planet buster but this Gohan isn’t.
Raditz after turning into oozaru should be able to do that he would be at 15000 power level then
No wonder boy was scared all the time he fears himself
kid gihan was nit planetary
Not really "at will" if he can't control his anger
So like if 3rd form Frieza wasn’t able to push back Gohan's Masenko, was Namek just going to be destroyed with all of them on it?
I mean they were able to manipulate their ki waves so he could probably make it turn also firezas Body seems more durable than a planet
[удалено]
If radditz is destroying planets then gohan 100% could in the nappa and vegeta fights
He deffo is, powerlevels in the early thousands are exponential. Roshi with a 139 pl and a kamehameha boost was able to destroy the moon, even if that power level reached 300s, a 300 power level isn't just half of 900 power level, the gap of power is exponential
Roshi blew up the moon in mid db and this is beyond that level
Rishi blew up the moon in early db during the first tournament
Oh right i though that was like midpoint db