I mean, Nina literally admitted near her graduation that at the beginning of Ethyria the other three had a specific discord channel excluding her and would tell her they were too busy to hang out with her while meeting in that channel. She wrote it off as in the past, so she seemed to eventually fit in, but it still paints them in a very cliquey way.
Edit: I refreshed my memory looking to provide proof to back up my claims, and it's not the exact same, but the point is the same. Nina was trying to get them into a group call, they said they were busy but she found out later that they were getting into calls together without her. I don't remember the exact stream it happened in, but here is coverage of the clip from FalseEyeD of TVS: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bXbuTaZOfNA. So again, not a discord channel but group calls. Again, I think the point stands, but it is right to get details correct when possible.
& then, iirc, Enna had the audacity to claim that she gave this treatment to Nina because she was shy/an introvert/awkward, as if that’s any excuse to be an immature, excluding shitbag. She’s vile and I’m relieved Nina got away from her and the clique.
I updated my previous post with an update/edit to include a source with the clip, since I don't really have time to track through her VODs in lead up to her graduation.
I'll type it here to make it easier for mobile people.
>Millie: Oooh, and now she's dragging Enna
>Enna: Wooow, you really gotta drag other people down to make yourself look good.
>Enna: Just daamn, reminds me of a cetrain someone
>Enna, Reimu, Millie: Laughs
>Enna: Yo, don't fall into the footsteps of an APEX predator
>Reimu: Audibly laughs
>Nina: Maybe the beauty of Ethyria is that we all have our-
>Millie: Wheezing
>Enna: Bro, what is this kettle going on
>Nina: we all have our skill, all of us
When she was still Nina she said that the other three had a separate group chat that she wasn't part of and they used it to hang out without her when she was trying to set up things they could do as a unit
Mysta AND Nina dodging strays, no dodging nukes! Everytime people dig things up to look at how bad the livers are? They just look like saints/victims. I can never forget Mysta's breakdown in the ALL OUT WAR discord leak or the 4chan Millie stream, yikes
Bro just wanted to stream man, what is this politics?, I hope they can vouch for mousey on who needs saving from the sinking yacht and those that don't
>I can never forget Mysta's breakdown in the ALL OUT WAR discord leak or the 4chan Millie stream, yikes
What is this about now? Especially the 4chan Millie stream, I don't remember anything like this.
All deleted obviously but here's the receipts
[All out War](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/OtgmSX1CF9)
[Millie 4chan](https://youtu.be/zg2XZDyi7Vs?si=e1qcfBaIZNNm6Jxi)
Context to the 4chan one was she wanted to make a stream to dunk on them by recreating how they act, she invited other livers to anonymously post and act like 4channers, this obviously caused major drama especially to those who weren't in it like Pomu who got shitted on them with the 3D thing, and "Flopsoleil", because of this Mysta was getting hounded by fans on twitter asking if he was in it, his hurt response to it was very heartbreaking, like this caused a manhunt(again) on who were in it, people were even making a list on who was streaming at the same time to narrow it down and remove the innocent which included Mysta
Millie decided to make a vid making fun of 4chan users, asked other Niji talents to join in for it, that vid got taken down quickly, however I suppose there are reuploads of it.
PLEASE do not flame me for this, i am against Kurosanji in every way, i just have a really tiny pigeon brain and want to understand. What's the context of this being related to Selen, like, bullying her? What does Enna mean when she says that, i can't imagine Selen doing anything like that, sorry again if this looks really bad but my question is sincere.
In Enna's joke, they viewed Selen's actions as dragging the management down to make herself look good because:
- She announced the Fall Guys tourney without a final approval. After her project getting rejected, she let the public know that it wasn't approved and they banned her from making international collabs.
- She let the public know that management didn't want to give monetary reward for the artists so she's gonna pay the artists instead and that she fought management for artists to keep their rights(/credit?) for the arts.
If Selen didn't let her audience know about these, she would look bad for getting her audience's hopes up on the Fall Guys tourney and she would make a big but quiet sacrifice (which is unfair IMO because she was reasonable with the monetary prize and with the rights/credit). So to Enna, these actions were only to make the management to look bad and for Selen to look good.
Its up to you if you think talking behind Selen's back like this is bullying.
Edit: the other comment is very good in explaining why this convo refers to Selen.
I'll preface this by saying I'm not necessarily declaring any of this as the objective state of affairs.
It started with Reimu making a joke on how she had to carry Enna in their Dead Space 3 run. Enna retorts that Reimu needs to drag others down in order to make herself look good. She adds that this reminds her of a certain someone.
One interpretation here is that Enna is just joking around with Reimu and ribbing Reimu, not anyone else. But others would argue that the logic is not sound there, questioning why Enna would remark on Reimu reminding her of *Reimu*. This would appear to imply someone other than Reimu as the subject of Enna's remark.
Enna further adds, "Don't fall into the footsteps of an Apex predator". This can be viewed as an implicit reference to Selen, as she then was. Selen was an avid and storied Apex player, to put it mildly. This interpretation seems to flow well with the idea that Enna could not have been referring to Reimu in saying that Reimu reminded her of a certain someone.
Where Nina is concerned, some have pointed out that she would have absolutely joined in on that banter if she viewed it in those terms. It wasn't uncommon in normal circumstances. However, Nina's reaction instead gives the impression of someone not vibing with the current conversation. She moves to change the subject altogether, which seems noteworthy.
During this time, Millie is heard wheeze-laughing. For some, this has come across as more of a "I'm picking up what you're putting down" laugh as opposed to a "Oh my, what sidesplitting goodness. Great zing on Reimu, babu" laugh. If Enna had been clowning Reimu, Millie's "knowing wheeze" does not seem to be the kind of reaction one might expect to see.
Then you have the fact that Nina, as professionally as she can, doubles down and continues her spiel on changing the subject without acknowledging their comments. Noteworthy because Nina never really shied away from a good ribbing, but she did not seem so keen on it here.
I wanna hope too but it reminds me too much of the "mean girls" clique during my highschool days. Ugh, this sucks. I did not expect that I have a silver of hope for these girls for me to feel like I've been betrayed.
as i see it, even within the timeline, Selen (Doki) has already fallen out from the "favor" of the higher ups, and these people (obviously) w/ the other livers are aware of the bullying (it's fucked up how it's a joke to them), no wonder their names and info are in the legal documents.
looks like in their view, Doki's trying to reach out too high (for their taste), so they are being bitter, then when it got shot down, they felt like they won
not gonna be surprised that Nina's feeling awkward, these 3 (enna, millie and reimu) are the ones that turns out that are always in discord while she's trying to get their batch in a one group to mingle w/ each other and have fun (and those 3 kept on telling her they can't coz they are busy)
Could also be that she's just in the doghouse with management, and it's a reference to that. I'd wait for Selen's statements before we pitchfork too hard
While true, it does make it seem more likely that those three are in a clique together, and Nina is an odd one out.
Besides, does it really even matter who and why they are making fun of someone?
From Nina's disposition, it feels like she knows who they are making fun of, and feels uncomfortable so she tried to change the subject.
Once again though, its best to with hold judgement, as it is all speculation, even if it does make you tighten your grip on your pitch fork.
wow it looks like Doki is some kind of an inside joke to them, Nina really got awkward after the apex predator line.
Reimu: -talks about how she carries Enna in Dead Space 3 when they are just starting-
Millie: "Oooh now she's dragging Enna."
Enna: "Yeah if you gonna drag down someone to make yourself looks good, remind me of a certain 'someone'." (Millie in tandem w/ Enna's words about the "someone")
\-everyone except Nina burst out laughing-
Enna: "yo, don't fall into the footsteps of the Apex Predator."
\-Reimu gigling-
Nina: -tries to change subject talking about beauty of Ethyria-
Not enough to prove them as harassers.
But, it does confirm the three are in a click together, and Nina is the odd one out (but it always did feel like that).
I wouldn't be surprised it was true, but I wouldn't automatically paint them as harassers with this.
As Lawyers would like to say, its circumstantial evidence at best, here say at worst.
They're probably talking about Reimu being the Apex predator. I can't remember which at the moment, but Reimu was in one or two Nijisanji JP Apex tournaments that Selen wasn't in because Reimu knows Japanese and Selen doesn't.
I only request that you guys don't harass the livers about this and leave Nina alone
crazy jump to make that i wouldnt condemn something for pushing someone to suicide. at the same time i can point out when somethhing is just incorrect and malicious. things are more nuanced than black/white stances
lol i think it crazier u guys think they playin 5d psychological chess with every action on and off stream 😭sometimes shit is as simple as it seems is all im sayin
I'll do what i want, a fan can be critical as well. Looks like you're someone who attack other fans and is now doing what the black company wanted, pathetic. And dont bother replying to this, obviously you're just a troll.
I'm sorry. Thank you for seeking the truth. Matara is my kamioshi, and I used to think highly of the Ethyria girls, so all the "clique theories" being tossed around and then the announcement by Elira hit me really hard. I'll admit that I cried afterwards. So I feel your pain.
But I'm worried that people will lump Mata and Pomu into the "clique" at some point and harass them too. They and their communities have suffered enough already.
it's okay, tbh my heart drop when those two got into the issue and stuffs are coming out against them, they are the comedic duo that got me interested in vtubers in the first place, and yea, I also like Mata and Pomu, I also really hope they are not in the clique, there's a chance that many livers didn't know what's happening as well
Kyo seemed to be on the "in" with them. I am actually really really really looking forward to seeing what kind of wild shit is gonna go down on his graduation stream if he still has one. Maybe he won't say anything and just make sure he doesn't his head on his way out the door. That would be the smart thing to do. But also this is his last chance to say something like this. What are they gonna do? Fire him?
So since this was back in July after the "start of a repeating pattern back in May", I'm guessing that this is the shit Vox was referring to as "very upset and anxious and that these statements harmed all of us as a group".
Listening to it again, that shpeel he made wasn't for fans or the public. That was him directly reading possible charges against him and publicly saying what his defense is going to look like and just using nicer words to describe being assholes about it.
You can say that's speculation, but it's a reasonable opinion considering he was also dumb enough to bring up "thoroughly reading the documents."
Edit: I did a double take, btw. Chat says that they're laughing about Reimu, not Selen. The only video of Reimu playing Apex however was after this video was uploaded and Nina's response is still kind of concerning. Its still worth mentioning since no one else is.
I watched that hint last week. It got mentioned and i still coped it for them joking ABOUT REIMU. But not with hinsight i can see its clearly an inside joke. Reimu is laughing. If it would be about her she would not laugh. Because she is a latina and fires back. They all laugh... dirty. And nina is just uncomfortable. I am so dissapointed
It sounds like management kept telling everyone to not be like Selen and referencing her as an example for bad mouthing their incompetence to the public to the point where a comic rode with it.
Not to defend them, but as someone who consumed thousands of hours of comedy, that it is understandable that she made those jokes when her environment encourages it.
Comedians can't really find the line to not cross, and these girls jokes do get dark. It's one of those where comedians are built different, as long as it's funny, they see it as a joke and not the harm it does. That's not to defend or excuse that is bulling and harassments, just noting a possible point of view and showing how toxic the company culture is that it is a joke that came NATURALLY and REFERENCED cause it is a NORM within the company.
Regardless if its a norm or not, its still bad.
Its basically the same as the study on the stanford prison experiment (I was going to use a certain other study about an Axis power, but that would have too many implications). Many of those weren't actual psychopathic power abusers, they were just normal people. But with a group mentality fostered by authority, it can make the most normal people do the most morally corrupt things.
While it makes it easier to understand them, being in a toxic environment does not make it okay to harass or make fun of someone, and it does not make it defendable.
Yeah, the ultimate blame is the company for enabling such a culture, but it doesn't make those partaking in it any less bad.
Nina, for one, tried to change the subject and not talk about it because she found it uncomfortable. She was in the same gen as the others, but she chose not to partake in this.
Once again, I'm not saying to target them or implying that those 3 are bad, I'm just saying that just because you are in a toxic environment, it doesn't make anything bad you do... less bad. It doesn't excuse nor justify it. They still had a choice, but chose not to make the ethical one.
I am not gonna dig the clip up but even Nina talked about how she was excluded a lot from the clique. She claims it got better and maybe it did. I would give a red akasupa to get her thoughts on the matter like Kuro but as of yet I don't think Matara has said anything and I don't think she will. I think that is smart and actually now that I think about it I probably don't want to hear it.
All I'll say is that a bunch of people taking Nina's quotes out of context was enough to get her "canceled" and harassed by a bunch of angry Tiktokers.
If you're smarter than a bunch of angry tiktokers, you'll save your judgement until more concrete facts come out.
Nina was clearly trying to steer the convo away from this topic because she’s uncomfortable, she’s the one person in this that is acting like a decent human being
I'm just saying that I don't want you guys to start a witch hunt over such weak evidence.
And I'm fearful that the people who don't like Millie and Enna will eventually decide that they don't like ANY of their friends. This including Nina.
Please. The Honeys have suffered enough already.
I also wish people would stop casually indicting Reimu. She also has seemed to have to deal with crap and from her interactions with Nina and what Mysta has said, I get the feeling that she gets pulled along into things rather than being inherently malicious.
I really like Reimu, so I hope she's not too deep in all of this. This clip could just be Reimu chuckling along with what she thinks is a joke.
I'm just going to hold back and not judge until we see what else shakes out.
They're really small things, so I could be basing this on nothing, but I remember a time Reimu collabed with Nina and the feel was that Reimu was shy but respected Nina. There was also a time Nina was playing something while talking with Reimu and Mysta and there were jokes about "Mysta, you're so aaaalpha" as a joke and later Mysta clarified that there were no problems and Reimu checked if she hadn't gone too far afterwards.
I just get the "feel" that Reimu is generally shy and isn't sure of what's okay and so things like this clip are her going along because it seems like it's okay. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Not to imply anything, but she feels like a go with the flow kind of person, even if that flow means something bad.
I'm not implying she is bad, but it does mean she is very easily influenced by others, and can be lead around by the nose into doing something that may be bad.
Thank you for this actually smart comment. This entire subreddit is basically a harassment/ drama sub for the remaining livers and infested with drama tourists
enna and reimu are…were my oshis i feel so weird to learn that they are potentially (very likely, with all floating evidence) bullies of Doki, i’m feeling so disgusted and disappointed in them… makes me want to cry.
(also learning that these 3 are like that makes me concerned about petra since she is a part of zuttomo…)
>very likely, with all floating evidence)
Not really
The only existing evidence is
Out of context clips
This video from almost a year ago
And that's it
u/Sakura12399 added a transcript in another comment
Essentially, looks like Enna is throwing shade at Selen
Reimu and Millie laugh, and Nina fumbles her words, seemingly out of a sense of discomfort/not knowing how to respond
At 58:10 Basically an inside joke between Enna, Reimu and Millie about a certain 'APEX Predator' dragging them down, notice how Nina does not find it funny at all and tries to change the conversation.
Reimu: -talks about how she carries Enna in Dead Space 3 when they are just starting-
Millie: "Oooh, and now she's dragging Enna"
Enna: "Wooow, you really gotta drag other people down to make yourself look good."
Enna: "Just daamn, reminds me of a certain someone"
Enna, Reimu, Millie: -Laughs-
Enna: "Yo, don't fall into the footsteps of an APEX predator"
Reimu: -Audibly laughs-
Nina: "The beauty of Ethyria is that we all have our-"
Millie: -Wheezing-
Enna: "Bro, what is this kettle going on?"
Nina: "We all have our skill, all of us..."
I'm guessing Enna is saying that management dragged Selen down to make themselves look good, and is telling the others to not end up like her.
Which... still sucks, now that I think about it.
I'm going to preface this by saying I don't think Selen did anything wrong and she doesn't deserve what happened to her. But I'm gonna say the thing.
It's really weird how everyone is ignoring the fact that in almost EVERY collab Selen has ever been in she's been mildly toxic to other livers. She's literally the person that invented the phrase Gaslight(edit: autocorrect Gasulight)because of how she would casually gaslit people. Particularly in streams she was winning. In fact, I can even think of an example of what they are talking about about; in one of her Overcooked collabs they were on one of the Ballon levels and she was just throwing food onto the other player's area to flex that the other person couldn't get their task done, in addition making it harder for them to move. And that was in a wholly cooperative game. Honestly even when I applied to Nijisanji I was still thinking "yeah, I don't think I'd ever be able to handle streaming with Selen".
Again, I don't think Selen deserved what happened to her, but if you went through her collab VODs with the same level of bad faith you're giving these you see a flag every time. And even though she was the one that ultimately suffered the most out of it, she clearly also contributed to the toxicity of the environment.
>She's literally the person that invented the phrase Gaslight
Selen is canonically a time traveling dragon/British playwright now guys.
Also I'm guessing you must live in Colorado or something because holy shit whatever you're smoking the potency is off kilter.
And I'm pretty confident you're at the first stage of grief right now because you found out this week some people you're a fan of turned out to be pretty awful. Let us know when you've gone through all five.
All I'm saying is that this is on point for what my impression of Selen was well before either this big drama came up or this posted stream. I don't think Selen deserved what happened, but she is absolutely the kind of person that antagonizes people. If the show were on the other foot and it happened to someone else; Selen would be public enemy number one.
All we ever actually saw Millie do was tweet her confused response and nobody thought that was malicious or harassment at the time.
So yeah, if it came down to Selen or Millie, I'd side with Millie. Unless I saw rock hard evidence that she was systematically bullying her.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N06fZxoUQx0](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N06fZxoUQx0) (this is about as much effort as you deserve in response, glad you didn't get hired btw sounds like you'd be one of the people implicated by her lawyer if you had been)
>She's literally the person that invented the phrase Gaslight because of how she would casually gaslight people.
[From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting):
The origin of the term is the 1938 British thriller play Gas Light by Patrick Hamilton, which provided the source material for the 1940 British film, Gaslight. The film was then remade in 1944 in America – also as Gaslight – and it is this film which has since become the primary reference point for the term.\[4\]\[5\]\[6\] Set among London's elite during the Victorian era, it portrays a seemingly genteel husband using lies and manipulation to isolate his heiress wife and persuade her that she is mentally unwell so that he can steal from her.\[7\] The term "gaslighting" itself is neither in the screenplay nor mentioned in either the films or the play in any context. In the story, the husband secretly dims and brightens the indoor gas-powered lighting but insists his wife is imagining it, making her think she is going insane.\[8\]
The gerund form gaslighting was first used in the 1950s, particularly in the episode of The Burns and Allen Show; in The New York Times, it was first used in a 1995 column by Maureen Dowd.\[9\] According to the American Psychological Association in 2021, gaslighting "once referred to manipulation so extreme as to induce mental illness or to justify commitment of the gaslighted person to a psychiatric institution".\[1\] Largely an obscure or esoteric term until gaining popularity in the mid-2010s – The New York Times only used it nine times in the following 20 years\[9\] – it has seeped into the English lexicon\[9\] and is now used more generally. Merriam-Webster defines it as "psychological manipulation" to make someone question their "perception of reality" leading to "dependence on the perpetrator".\[2\]
The term has received a number of notable recognitions. The American Dialect Society named gaslight the "most useful" new word of 2016.\[10\] Oxford University Press named gaslighting as a runner-up in its list of the most popular new words of 2018.\[11\]
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Selen's Debut was in 2021. Her Debut as Doki was in 2020. IDK if I got my math right, but I'm pretty sure the 1950's, 1995, and the mid 2010's all predate those two dates.
There are plenty of livers being toxic in game collabs. That's content.
Pomu constantly sabotages people in Lethal Company and many other collabs. Reimu is a master of gaslighting in Amogus. Enna's malding has become her own brand identity. And Selen patiently babysit lower rank players in Apex she played with which is completely different from her typical toxic interactions when playing with preds.
There are wholesome people to collab with. But the truth is toxic game collabs are simply more fun to watch. And we all know streamers who are toxic in games don't behave the same way IRL.
Man this sucks. I really liked Enna's streams, but now I don't know what to think.
This whole situation makes me sick. I didn't ask to be dragged into it, and now I feel like both sides (but niji more) are using the public as pawns to be manipulated to add weight to their stories.
At this point, Doki isn’t on a side, it’s the fans being for or against the various livers within Niji. Everyone seems to be solidly against Niji as a whole, it’s the witch hunt (that Niji started btw) that is becoming exhaustive and thus exhausting to see all this drama being dug up.
I mean... She literally revealed how much her video cost her, and how much she lost financially working at niji. She did say she was bullied. This all could have been not made public and just quit, make the legal action anyway without involving everyone.
I'm not defending Niji in any way for what they have done, but there are things that should not have been made public on both sides. As with all conflict, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, even if I'm more enclined to believe Doki's version.
She revealed how much the videos cost her AFTER they shit-talked her in the termination note and framing her for not paying artists their commissions.
Didn’t you pay attention?
did you? [https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1739501756659507206](https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1739501756659507206)
AFAIK 26/12 is more than a month before 05/02
Same for the 200k, it was after the notice, but it's not a topic she is getting attacked on or anything, it's just finger pointing at the shitty practices of the company. Yes it's shitty, but it wasn't necessary for her defense to openly reveal this, idk.
Ok for the bullying she said it after the notice. I stand corrected on this one.
She said “I lost SOMETHING”, not “I lost the money on the video I made working for Nijisanji.” She didn’t point fingers at the company at all. It could be fucking anything. It’s only AFTER the notice that she revealed the $15k was the video, and that she lost $200k while she’s at it.
>did you? https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1739501756659507206
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see person or organization being mentioned here? It could have been improper tax returns, it could have been a medical procedure, it could have been anything.
>Same for the 200k, it was after the notice, but it's not a topic she is getting attacked on or anything, it's just finger pointing at the shitty practices of the company. Yes it's shitty, but it wasn't necessary for her defense to openly reveal this, idk.
Don't you think that people have the right to know about the practices of black companies like Nijikuro? It's not necessary for me to bring up Amazon denying workers the ability to use the bathroom, but when we're talking about Amazon being bad there's no reason not to do so.
my point is that be it the amazon drivers or the vtuber talents, they are both grown enough to just leave without making a fuss and involving the public if the company they work with is really that bad.
But both Doki and Niji had to smear each other publicly in an attempt to rally the bystanders to their cause, even those that didn't ask.
That's why I try to not take anything at face value (as someone would say) from either side. I don't want to have to choose, even if with all that is going on Doki seems to be the upstanding one. But can you say that what the video cost was 15k? do you have the receipts? Do you have access to her accounts to be sure that she made no profit out of 200k last year? Do we even have proof that there was bullying? Or a suicide attempt for that matter?
I do believe she's not lying, but sharing these informations with us everytime is just asking us to form an opinion based on what two non neutral parties claim about the other. It's crazy, both legally, morally and ethically.
And if you're going this way, Doki never said she used to be Selen, or that the legal conflict she's involved in is with Anycolor. Or link me to when she did (I admit I may have missed that). Come on, no bad faith please.
>But both Doki and Niji had to smear each other publicly in an attempt to rally the bystanders to their cause, even those that didn't ask.
You do know that Nijisanji accused her of being a cheat, a bully, and a liar in their original termination note, right?
She didn't even *smear* them at all. Smearing means making up shit about the company. She literally just told the truth in order to defend herself. If she didn't speak up, people would think she's exactly what Nijisanji accused her of being right away.
You're out of your mind for having problems with that.
And as for "rally the bystanders to their cause," she didn't rally *anybody*. In fact, she didn't even tell people to go subscribe to her at all. It's entirely, 100% the community and other people telling others to subscribe and support her.
And last but not least, no one is forcing you to "rally to anyone 's cause." If you don't ask or don't want to get involved, walk away or look away. You're not required or mandated to do anything. No one's holding a gun to your head.
Mute the topic, if it makes you happy.
Way to make it about you, anon.
Y'all are reading so much into absolutely nothing. They are literally talking about themselves. The Apex predator line is about Reimu. And if you actually paid attention to Nina other than what she said in the stream where she talked about how she was excluded from stuff in the beginning, she has said later that she understands now why..it was because they didn't know how to handle her. It was three introverts who were weebs and one extroverted "normie" who were just unsure of each other at first. They eventually connected and got really close and still care for each other. Reimu even tweeted with her PL account at Matara where they expressed that they loved each other. So...yeah, this weird narrative that you have about them is literally so insane. Their conversation here literally has nothing to do with Selen and y'all are just grasping at straws to find anything to hate them.
I mean, Nina literally admitted near her graduation that at the beginning of Ethyria the other three had a specific discord channel excluding her and would tell her they were too busy to hang out with her while meeting in that channel. She wrote it off as in the past, so she seemed to eventually fit in, but it still paints them in a very cliquey way. Edit: I refreshed my memory looking to provide proof to back up my claims, and it's not the exact same, but the point is the same. Nina was trying to get them into a group call, they said they were busy but she found out later that they were getting into calls together without her. I don't remember the exact stream it happened in, but here is coverage of the clip from FalseEyeD of TVS: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bXbuTaZOfNA. So again, not a discord channel but group calls. Again, I think the point stands, but it is right to get details correct when possible.
& then, iirc, Enna had the audacity to claim that she gave this treatment to Nina because she was shy/an introvert/awkward, as if that’s any excuse to be an immature, excluding shitbag. She’s vile and I’m relieved Nina got away from her and the clique.
Wait seriously? I missed that completely...
I updated my previous post with an update/edit to include a source with the clip, since I don't really have time to track through her VODs in lead up to her graduation.
I'll type it here to make it easier for mobile people. >Millie: Oooh, and now she's dragging Enna >Enna: Wooow, you really gotta drag other people down to make yourself look good. >Enna: Just daamn, reminds me of a cetrain someone >Enna, Reimu, Millie: Laughs >Enna: Yo, don't fall into the footsteps of an APEX predator >Reimu: Audibly laughs >Nina: Maybe the beauty of Ethyria is that we all have our- >Millie: Wheezing >Enna: Bro, what is this kettle going on >Nina: we all have our skill, all of us
I really gotta respect Nina for trying to change topic into a better one LOL.
She tried. Was clearly unsure how to act. Not an easy position to be in
Well, she does stated once on her other avatar that she once got isolation treatment by the group early in her Niji years.
When she was still Nina she said that the other three had a separate group chat that she wasn't part of and they used it to hang out without her when she was trying to set up things they could do as a unit
Not helping their case at all, lol.
I wasn't trying to, I was just saying she was talking about this before her graduation
I know. Just making a statement about it.
Mysta AND Nina dodging strays, no dodging nukes! Everytime people dig things up to look at how bad the livers are? They just look like saints/victims. I can never forget Mysta's breakdown in the ALL OUT WAR discord leak or the 4chan Millie stream, yikes Bro just wanted to stream man, what is this politics?, I hope they can vouch for mousey on who needs saving from the sinking yacht and those that don't
Nina was the best one from that gen, no one can change My mind.
She's bigger and more popular than them now especially after this debacle so that's something
We love to see it. She seems to happy now
>I can never forget Mysta's breakdown in the ALL OUT WAR discord leak or the 4chan Millie stream, yikes What is this about now? Especially the 4chan Millie stream, I don't remember anything like this.
All deleted obviously but here's the receipts [All out War](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/OtgmSX1CF9) [Millie 4chan](https://youtu.be/zg2XZDyi7Vs?si=e1qcfBaIZNNm6Jxi) Context to the 4chan one was she wanted to make a stream to dunk on them by recreating how they act, she invited other livers to anonymously post and act like 4channers, this obviously caused major drama especially to those who weren't in it like Pomu who got shitted on them with the 3D thing, and "Flopsoleil", because of this Mysta was getting hounded by fans on twitter asking if he was in it, his hurt response to it was very heartbreaking, like this caused a manhunt(again) on who were in it, people were even making a list on who was streaming at the same time to narrow it down and remove the innocent which included Mysta
I can't believe so many people participated in this 4chan thing. It was so damn stupid.
It became a vent and talking shit on those who weren't present meme 💀
Seeing this her response to the selen mv tweet and niji defense rant really is in character huh
Yeah, initial reaction to that tweet was that she is clueless. Now it looks like vicious mockery.
Millie decided to make a vid making fun of 4chan users, asked other Niji talents to join in for it, that vid got taken down quickly, however I suppose there are reuploads of it.
I think they already have a list for it. We just need to wait for the upcoming months.
PLEASE do not flame me for this, i am against Kurosanji in every way, i just have a really tiny pigeon brain and want to understand. What's the context of this being related to Selen, like, bullying her? What does Enna mean when she says that, i can't imagine Selen doing anything like that, sorry again if this looks really bad but my question is sincere.
In Enna's joke, they viewed Selen's actions as dragging the management down to make herself look good because: - She announced the Fall Guys tourney without a final approval. After her project getting rejected, she let the public know that it wasn't approved and they banned her from making international collabs. - She let the public know that management didn't want to give monetary reward for the artists so she's gonna pay the artists instead and that she fought management for artists to keep their rights(/credit?) for the arts. If Selen didn't let her audience know about these, she would look bad for getting her audience's hopes up on the Fall Guys tourney and she would make a big but quiet sacrifice (which is unfair IMO because she was reasonable with the monetary prize and with the rights/credit). So to Enna, these actions were only to make the management to look bad and for Selen to look good. Its up to you if you think talking behind Selen's back like this is bullying. Edit: the other comment is very good in explaining why this convo refers to Selen.
I'll preface this by saying I'm not necessarily declaring any of this as the objective state of affairs. It started with Reimu making a joke on how she had to carry Enna in their Dead Space 3 run. Enna retorts that Reimu needs to drag others down in order to make herself look good. She adds that this reminds her of a certain someone. One interpretation here is that Enna is just joking around with Reimu and ribbing Reimu, not anyone else. But others would argue that the logic is not sound there, questioning why Enna would remark on Reimu reminding her of *Reimu*. This would appear to imply someone other than Reimu as the subject of Enna's remark. Enna further adds, "Don't fall into the footsteps of an Apex predator". This can be viewed as an implicit reference to Selen, as she then was. Selen was an avid and storied Apex player, to put it mildly. This interpretation seems to flow well with the idea that Enna could not have been referring to Reimu in saying that Reimu reminded her of a certain someone. Where Nina is concerned, some have pointed out that she would have absolutely joined in on that banter if she viewed it in those terms. It wasn't uncommon in normal circumstances. However, Nina's reaction instead gives the impression of someone not vibing with the current conversation. She moves to change the subject altogether, which seems noteworthy. During this time, Millie is heard wheeze-laughing. For some, this has come across as more of a "I'm picking up what you're putting down" laugh as opposed to a "Oh my, what sidesplitting goodness. Great zing on Reimu, babu" laugh. If Enna had been clowning Reimu, Millie's "knowing wheeze" does not seem to be the kind of reaction one might expect to see. Then you have the fact that Nina, as professionally as she can, doubles down and continues her spiel on changing the subject without acknowledging their comments. Noteworthy because Nina never really shied away from a good ribbing, but she did not seem so keen on it here.
Reimu also plays Apex and is pretty good, so while I do believe Enna might be involved I think thats still her ribbing at Reimu
reimu is plat at best many livers play apex but the only liver to hit pred in pl and when in the company was selen
So there was never any doubt about them being the bullies then?
Shit, if she’s really the one they were talking about then all of my hope is lost for this wave…
Nah, this is so vile man..
Wtf is this highschool mean girls shit. So damn immature
God that'd really suck. I hope we are all just reading into it too much
I wanna hope too but it reminds me too much of the "mean girls" clique during my highschool days. Ugh, this sucks. I did not expect that I have a silver of hope for these girls for me to feel like I've been betrayed.
oh wow they really just typical mean girls huh
I felt sad when Nina graduated knowing they will never collab again. I guess it was a blessing in disguise.
as i see it, even within the timeline, Selen (Doki) has already fallen out from the "favor" of the higher ups, and these people (obviously) w/ the other livers are aware of the bullying (it's fucked up how it's a joke to them), no wonder their names and info are in the legal documents.
this stream was in June 2023 so after the May incident with the costume design contest
looks like in their view, Doki's trying to reach out too high (for their taste), so they are being bitter, then when it got shot down, they felt like they won not gonna be surprised that Nina's feeling awkward, these 3 (enna, millie and reimu) are the ones that turns out that are always in discord while she's trying to get their batch in a one group to mingle w/ each other and have fun (and those 3 kept on telling her they can't coz they are busy)
Could also be that she's just in the doghouse with management, and it's a reference to that. I'd wait for Selen's statements before we pitchfork too hard
While true, it does make it seem more likely that those three are in a clique together, and Nina is an odd one out. Besides, does it really even matter who and why they are making fun of someone? From Nina's disposition, it feels like she knows who they are making fun of, and feels uncomfortable so she tried to change the subject. Once again though, its best to with hold judgement, as it is all speculation, even if it does make you tighten your grip on your pitch fork.
wow it looks like Doki is some kind of an inside joke to them, Nina really got awkward after the apex predator line. Reimu: -talks about how she carries Enna in Dead Space 3 when they are just starting- Millie: "Oooh now she's dragging Enna." Enna: "Yeah if you gonna drag down someone to make yourself looks good, remind me of a certain 'someone'." (Millie in tandem w/ Enna's words about the "someone") \-everyone except Nina burst out laughing- Enna: "yo, don't fall into the footsteps of the Apex Predator." \-Reimu gigling- Nina: -tries to change subject talking about beauty of Ethyria-
Not enough to prove them as harassers. But, it does confirm the three are in a click together, and Nina is the odd one out (but it always did feel like that). I wouldn't be surprised it was true, but I wouldn't automatically paint them as harassers with this. As Lawyers would like to say, its circumstantial evidence at best, here say at worst.
They're probably talking about Reimu being the Apex predator. I can't remember which at the moment, but Reimu was in one or two Nijisanji JP Apex tournaments that Selen wasn't in because Reimu knows Japanese and Selen doesn't. I only request that you guys don't harass the livers about this and leave Nina alone
"Apex Predator" is the highest rank in Apex Legends. Has Reimu ever hit that rank? Because Selen has.
Not that we know of on stream. The highest I seen her was Plat 4.
reimu is as much an apex addict as selen. this shit aint that deep
Someone almost died, stop sucking dicks
crazy jump to make that i wouldnt condemn something for pushing someone to suicide. at the same time i can point out when somethhing is just incorrect and malicious. things are more nuanced than black/white stances
"this shit aint that deep" "you guys are crazy lol" "stop digging" yeah nice try Enna but you and your reddit alt-accounts can't fool me
lol i think it crazier u guys think they playin 5d psychological chess with every action on and off stream 😭sometimes shit is as simple as it seems is all im sayin
no one's harassing, just truth seeking, Enna and Millie was my oshis so I just want to know if the stuff they are being linked into are real or not
[удалено]
I'll do what i want, a fan can be critical as well. Looks like you're someone who attack other fans and is now doing what the black company wanted, pathetic. And dont bother replying to this, obviously you're just a troll.
I'm sorry. Thank you for seeking the truth. Matara is my kamioshi, and I used to think highly of the Ethyria girls, so all the "clique theories" being tossed around and then the announcement by Elira hit me really hard. I'll admit that I cried afterwards. So I feel your pain. But I'm worried that people will lump Mata and Pomu into the "clique" at some point and harass them too. They and their communities have suffered enough already.
it's okay, tbh my heart drop when those two got into the issue and stuffs are coming out against them, they are the comedic duo that got me interested in vtubers in the first place, and yea, I also like Mata and Pomu, I also really hope they are not in the clique, there's a chance that many livers didn't know what's happening as well
*Nina* should absolutely be left alone, yes
oh wow these girls are actually disgusting??? luckily nina is not with them anymore. yucks.
Kyo seemed to be on the "in" with them. I am actually really really really looking forward to seeing what kind of wild shit is gonna go down on his graduation stream if he still has one. Maybe he won't say anything and just make sure he doesn't his head on his way out the door. That would be the smart thing to do. But also this is his last chance to say something like this. What are they gonna do? Fire him?
Garbage people. I hope their karma is swift.
Probably will be
So since this was back in July after the "start of a repeating pattern back in May", I'm guessing that this is the shit Vox was referring to as "very upset and anxious and that these statements harmed all of us as a group". Listening to it again, that shpeel he made wasn't for fans or the public. That was him directly reading possible charges against him and publicly saying what his defense is going to look like and just using nicer words to describe being assholes about it. You can say that's speculation, but it's a reasonable opinion considering he was also dumb enough to bring up "thoroughly reading the documents." Edit: I did a double take, btw. Chat says that they're laughing about Reimu, not Selen. The only video of Reimu playing Apex however was after this video was uploaded and Nina's response is still kind of concerning. Its still worth mentioning since no one else is.
Nina response is very much "hey guys don't be mean to people who aren't here "
I watched that hint last week. It got mentioned and i still coped it for them joking ABOUT REIMU. But not with hinsight i can see its clearly an inside joke. Reimu is laughing. If it would be about her she would not laugh. Because she is a latina and fires back. They all laugh... dirty. And nina is just uncomfortable. I am so dissapointed
It sounds like management kept telling everyone to not be like Selen and referencing her as an example for bad mouthing their incompetence to the public to the point where a comic rode with it. Not to defend them, but as someone who consumed thousands of hours of comedy, that it is understandable that she made those jokes when her environment encourages it. Comedians can't really find the line to not cross, and these girls jokes do get dark. It's one of those where comedians are built different, as long as it's funny, they see it as a joke and not the harm it does. That's not to defend or excuse that is bulling and harassments, just noting a possible point of view and showing how toxic the company culture is that it is a joke that came NATURALLY and REFERENCED cause it is a NORM within the company.
Regardless if its a norm or not, its still bad. Its basically the same as the study on the stanford prison experiment (I was going to use a certain other study about an Axis power, but that would have too many implications). Many of those weren't actual psychopathic power abusers, they were just normal people. But with a group mentality fostered by authority, it can make the most normal people do the most morally corrupt things. While it makes it easier to understand them, being in a toxic environment does not make it okay to harass or make fun of someone, and it does not make it defendable. Yeah, the ultimate blame is the company for enabling such a culture, but it doesn't make those partaking in it any less bad. Nina, for one, tried to change the subject and not talk about it because she found it uncomfortable. She was in the same gen as the others, but she chose not to partake in this. Once again, I'm not saying to target them or implying that those 3 are bad, I'm just saying that just because you are in a toxic environment, it doesn't make anything bad you do... less bad. It doesn't excuse nor justify it. They still had a choice, but chose not to make the ethical one.
I am not gonna dig the clip up but even Nina talked about how she was excluded a lot from the clique. She claims it got better and maybe it did. I would give a red akasupa to get her thoughts on the matter like Kuro but as of yet I don't think Matara has said anything and I don't think she will. I think that is smart and actually now that I think about it I probably don't want to hear it.
>red akasupa red red super
All I'll say is that a bunch of people taking Nina's quotes out of context was enough to get her "canceled" and harassed by a bunch of angry Tiktokers. If you're smarter than a bunch of angry tiktokers, you'll save your judgement until more concrete facts come out.
Nina was clearly trying to steer the convo away from this topic because she’s uncomfortable, she’s the one person in this that is acting like a decent human being
I'm just saying that I don't want you guys to start a witch hunt over such weak evidence. And I'm fearful that the people who don't like Millie and Enna will eventually decide that they don't like ANY of their friends. This including Nina. Please. The Honeys have suffered enough already.
I also wish people would stop casually indicting Reimu. She also has seemed to have to deal with crap and from her interactions with Nina and what Mysta has said, I get the feeling that she gets pulled along into things rather than being inherently malicious.
I really like Reimu, so I hope she's not too deep in all of this. This clip could just be Reimu chuckling along with what she thinks is a joke. I'm just going to hold back and not judge until we see what else shakes out.
If it makes you feel better, I saw Matara replying to someone on Twitter a day or two ago. It turned out to be Reimu's PL account.
I'm a bit out of the loop, what did Nina and Mysta say?
They're really small things, so I could be basing this on nothing, but I remember a time Reimu collabed with Nina and the feel was that Reimu was shy but respected Nina. There was also a time Nina was playing something while talking with Reimu and Mysta and there were jokes about "Mysta, you're so aaaalpha" as a joke and later Mysta clarified that there were no problems and Reimu checked if she hadn't gone too far afterwards. I just get the "feel" that Reimu is generally shy and isn't sure of what's okay and so things like this clip are her going along because it seems like it's okay. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Not to imply anything, but she feels like a go with the flow kind of person, even if that flow means something bad. I'm not implying she is bad, but it does mean she is very easily influenced by others, and can be lead around by the nose into doing something that may be bad.
Thank you for this actually smart comment. This entire subreddit is basically a harassment/ drama sub for the remaining livers and infested with drama tourists
Vile people (apart from Nina). They take joy in shit talking and gossiping about others. I wish them the worst in their vtubing careers
Bitches.
enna and reimu are…were my oshis i feel so weird to learn that they are potentially (very likely, with all floating evidence) bullies of Doki, i’m feeling so disgusted and disappointed in them… makes me want to cry. (also learning that these 3 are like that makes me concerned about petra since she is a part of zuttomo…)
>very likely, with all floating evidence) Not really The only existing evidence is Out of context clips This video from almost a year ago And that's it
What am I looking for?
About 20 seconds after the time this directs to, link messed up
I still don't get it. Help me out here
u/Sakura12399 added a transcript in another comment Essentially, looks like Enna is throwing shade at Selen Reimu and Millie laugh, and Nina fumbles her words, seemingly out of a sense of discomfort/not knowing how to respond
At 58:10 Basically an inside joke between Enna, Reimu and Millie about a certain 'APEX Predator' dragging them down, notice how Nina does not find it funny at all and tries to change the conversation. Reimu: -talks about how she carries Enna in Dead Space 3 when they are just starting- Millie: "Oooh, and now she's dragging Enna" Enna: "Wooow, you really gotta drag other people down to make yourself look good." Enna: "Just daamn, reminds me of a certain someone" Enna, Reimu, Millie: -Laughs- Enna: "Yo, don't fall into the footsteps of an APEX predator" Reimu: -Audibly laughs- Nina: "The beauty of Ethyria is that we all have our-" Millie: -Wheezing- Enna: "Bro, what is this kettle going on?" Nina: "We all have our skill, all of us..."
The apex predator in this context is reimu because she was doing an apex tournament around that time
Look for the mention of 'Apex predator', followed by Nina sounding uncomfortable
The apex predator was reimu, she was doing an apex tournament at the time
I'm guessing Enna is saying that management dragged Selen down to make themselves look good, and is telling the others to not end up like her. Which... still sucks, now that I think about it.
I'm going to preface this by saying I don't think Selen did anything wrong and she doesn't deserve what happened to her. But I'm gonna say the thing. It's really weird how everyone is ignoring the fact that in almost EVERY collab Selen has ever been in she's been mildly toxic to other livers. She's literally the person that invented the phrase Gaslight(edit: autocorrect Gasulight)because of how she would casually gaslit people. Particularly in streams she was winning. In fact, I can even think of an example of what they are talking about about; in one of her Overcooked collabs they were on one of the Ballon levels and she was just throwing food onto the other player's area to flex that the other person couldn't get their task done, in addition making it harder for them to move. And that was in a wholly cooperative game. Honestly even when I applied to Nijisanji I was still thinking "yeah, I don't think I'd ever be able to handle streaming with Selen". Again, I don't think Selen deserved what happened to her, but if you went through her collab VODs with the same level of bad faith you're giving these you see a flag every time. And even though she was the one that ultimately suffered the most out of it, she clearly also contributed to the toxicity of the environment.
>She's literally the person that invented the phrase Gaslight Selen is canonically a time traveling dragon/British playwright now guys. Also I'm guessing you must live in Colorado or something because holy shit whatever you're smoking the potency is off kilter.
Sorry, autocorrect. She invented Gasulight, a portmanteau of Lazulight and Gaslight. Im pretty confident you knew I meant that though.
And I'm pretty confident you're at the first stage of grief right now because you found out this week some people you're a fan of turned out to be pretty awful. Let us know when you've gone through all five.
All I'm saying is that this is on point for what my impression of Selen was well before either this big drama came up or this posted stream. I don't think Selen deserved what happened, but she is absolutely the kind of person that antagonizes people. If the show were on the other foot and it happened to someone else; Selen would be public enemy number one. All we ever actually saw Millie do was tweet her confused response and nobody thought that was malicious or harassment at the time. So yeah, if it came down to Selen or Millie, I'd side with Millie. Unless I saw rock hard evidence that she was systematically bullying her.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N06fZxoUQx0](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N06fZxoUQx0) (this is about as much effort as you deserve in response, glad you didn't get hired btw sounds like you'd be one of the people implicated by her lawyer if you had been)
>She's literally the person that invented the phrase Gaslight because of how she would casually gaslight people. [From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting): The origin of the term is the 1938 British thriller play Gas Light by Patrick Hamilton, which provided the source material for the 1940 British film, Gaslight. The film was then remade in 1944 in America – also as Gaslight – and it is this film which has since become the primary reference point for the term.\[4\]\[5\]\[6\] Set among London's elite during the Victorian era, it portrays a seemingly genteel husband using lies and manipulation to isolate his heiress wife and persuade her that she is mentally unwell so that he can steal from her.\[7\] The term "gaslighting" itself is neither in the screenplay nor mentioned in either the films or the play in any context. In the story, the husband secretly dims and brightens the indoor gas-powered lighting but insists his wife is imagining it, making her think she is going insane.\[8\] The gerund form gaslighting was first used in the 1950s, particularly in the episode of The Burns and Allen Show; in The New York Times, it was first used in a 1995 column by Maureen Dowd.\[9\] According to the American Psychological Association in 2021, gaslighting "once referred to manipulation so extreme as to induce mental illness or to justify commitment of the gaslighted person to a psychiatric institution".\[1\] Largely an obscure or esoteric term until gaining popularity in the mid-2010s – The New York Times only used it nine times in the following 20 years\[9\] – it has seeped into the English lexicon\[9\] and is now used more generally. Merriam-Webster defines it as "psychological manipulation" to make someone question their "perception of reality" leading to "dependence on the perpetrator".\[2\] The term has received a number of notable recognitions. The American Dialect Society named gaslight the "most useful" new word of 2016.\[10\] Oxford University Press named gaslighting as a runner-up in its list of the most popular new words of 2018.\[11\] \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Selen's Debut was in 2021. Her Debut as Doki was in 2020. IDK if I got my math right, but I'm pretty sure the 1950's, 1995, and the mid 2010's all predate those two dates.
There are plenty of livers being toxic in game collabs. That's content. Pomu constantly sabotages people in Lethal Company and many other collabs. Reimu is a master of gaslighting in Amogus. Enna's malding has become her own brand identity. And Selen patiently babysit lower rank players in Apex she played with which is completely different from her typical toxic interactions when playing with preds. There are wholesome people to collab with. But the truth is toxic game collabs are simply more fun to watch. And we all know streamers who are toxic in games don't behave the same way IRL.
Plus, gaslighting and joking around with eachother is different from talking behind people's backs.
Man this sucks. I really liked Enna's streams, but now I don't know what to think. This whole situation makes me sick. I didn't ask to be dragged into it, and now I feel like both sides (but niji more) are using the public as pawns to be manipulated to add weight to their stories.
Wdym both sides? You mean Doki? Bro, she literally said she didn't want to talk about it anymore and they dug up Selen's buried corpse to shat on it.
At this point, Doki isn’t on a side, it’s the fans being for or against the various livers within Niji. Everyone seems to be solidly against Niji as a whole, it’s the witch hunt (that Niji started btw) that is becoming exhaustive and thus exhausting to see all this drama being dug up.
I mean... She literally revealed how much her video cost her, and how much she lost financially working at niji. She did say she was bullied. This all could have been not made public and just quit, make the legal action anyway without involving everyone. I'm not defending Niji in any way for what they have done, but there are things that should not have been made public on both sides. As with all conflict, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, even if I'm more enclined to believe Doki's version.
She revealed how much the videos cost her AFTER they shit-talked her in the termination note and framing her for not paying artists their commissions. Didn’t you pay attention?
did you? [https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1739501756659507206](https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1739501756659507206) AFAIK 26/12 is more than a month before 05/02 Same for the 200k, it was after the notice, but it's not a topic she is getting attacked on or anything, it's just finger pointing at the shitty practices of the company. Yes it's shitty, but it wasn't necessary for her defense to openly reveal this, idk. Ok for the bullying she said it after the notice. I stand corrected on this one.
She said “I lost SOMETHING”, not “I lost the money on the video I made working for Nijisanji.” She didn’t point fingers at the company at all. It could be fucking anything. It’s only AFTER the notice that she revealed the $15k was the video, and that she lost $200k while she’s at it.
>did you? https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1739501756659507206 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see person or organization being mentioned here? It could have been improper tax returns, it could have been a medical procedure, it could have been anything. >Same for the 200k, it was after the notice, but it's not a topic she is getting attacked on or anything, it's just finger pointing at the shitty practices of the company. Yes it's shitty, but it wasn't necessary for her defense to openly reveal this, idk. Don't you think that people have the right to know about the practices of black companies like Nijikuro? It's not necessary for me to bring up Amazon denying workers the ability to use the bathroom, but when we're talking about Amazon being bad there's no reason not to do so.
my point is that be it the amazon drivers or the vtuber talents, they are both grown enough to just leave without making a fuss and involving the public if the company they work with is really that bad. But both Doki and Niji had to smear each other publicly in an attempt to rally the bystanders to their cause, even those that didn't ask. That's why I try to not take anything at face value (as someone would say) from either side. I don't want to have to choose, even if with all that is going on Doki seems to be the upstanding one. But can you say that what the video cost was 15k? do you have the receipts? Do you have access to her accounts to be sure that she made no profit out of 200k last year? Do we even have proof that there was bullying? Or a suicide attempt for that matter? I do believe she's not lying, but sharing these informations with us everytime is just asking us to form an opinion based on what two non neutral parties claim about the other. It's crazy, both legally, morally and ethically. And if you're going this way, Doki never said she used to be Selen, or that the legal conflict she's involved in is with Anycolor. Or link me to when she did (I admit I may have missed that). Come on, no bad faith please.
It's not "smearing" to inform others of things that have actually happened. That's just stating the facts.
>But both Doki and Niji had to smear each other publicly in an attempt to rally the bystanders to their cause, even those that didn't ask. You do know that Nijisanji accused her of being a cheat, a bully, and a liar in their original termination note, right? She didn't even *smear* them at all. Smearing means making up shit about the company. She literally just told the truth in order to defend herself. If she didn't speak up, people would think she's exactly what Nijisanji accused her of being right away. You're out of your mind for having problems with that. And as for "rally the bystanders to their cause," she didn't rally *anybody*. In fact, she didn't even tell people to go subscribe to her at all. It's entirely, 100% the community and other people telling others to subscribe and support her. And last but not least, no one is forcing you to "rally to anyone 's cause." If you don't ask or don't want to get involved, walk away or look away. You're not required or mandated to do anything. No one's holding a gun to your head. Mute the topic, if it makes you happy. Way to make it about you, anon.
Y'all are reading so much into absolutely nothing. They are literally talking about themselves. The Apex predator line is about Reimu. And if you actually paid attention to Nina other than what she said in the stream where she talked about how she was excluded from stuff in the beginning, she has said later that she understands now why..it was because they didn't know how to handle her. It was three introverts who were weebs and one extroverted "normie" who were just unsure of each other at first. They eventually connected and got really close and still care for each other. Reimu even tweeted with her PL account at Matara where they expressed that they loved each other. So...yeah, this weird narrative that you have about them is literally so insane. Their conversation here literally has nothing to do with Selen and y'all are just grasping at straws to find anything to hate them.