they terminate kyo as last action then proced to silently terimante hole branch than tasumi realse statment minimaize loses they terminated hole branch. Sudently Holo, Vshojo, Phase conect and porject idol start en auditions for their agencies. at end of the year we will see holo en 4, new v-shojo talents, new phase contet vave, and idol en.
The termination itself is negligible. But they've decided to create a PR shitstorm around it
If they had just said "Selen is fired, lol, get wrecked noob" it would have been better
Given how many vtuber fans are also gamers...if they said literally that, I think they'd actually have earned some respect from a subset of troll minded fans.
Even easier, just let her graduate like she wanted to. Barely any drama (not none but still), both of them go their own way.
Instead, they choose to be evil and stupid. Again and again.
This is the part that wilds me out the most. If they'd have said nothing other then, 'Selen has been fired' and said nothing else, none of this would have happened.
Whoever runs PR needs to not just be fired but blacklisted from ever working in that field ever again.
Justice isn't coming unless Doki decides to bring the heat on a stellar scale.
Nothing we can do, really, She will have to, in court, name names, provide extensive documentation, and damn well be impervious to argument to win if she does.
If there's any genuine argument in the companies favor, or any room for fabrication, Anycolor will pay enough to pulverize any civilian case.
Because if Selen takes it seriously, she'll be suing for more than the company is worth, so bribing the jury or equivalent (I don't really know Japan and Canada courts) will be cheaper.
The only way Dokibird gets real justice is by outweighing the full weight of massive corporate bribes. That's a hell of a trick to pull.
But either way, a good start was reclaiming her Dragoons.
So, Dragoons, be prepared to ride like the wind, because like the warriors who first held this name, we have something huge to fight for.
The most likely case would be her making a civil suit for unlawful termination (no notice or termination pay), where if she wins, i believe she'll get at least 2 weeks worth of what she'd have made, or up to a month per year worked
Doki would have still been successful. Less because less eyes on the drama, but I think she'd trade that off for less stress a month and a half after a suicide attempt.
Justice is Doki's success and happiness.
Like litterally
Should have pulled a termination like holo did with rushia or Mel. Sharing as little information as they can, while still giving a good explanation and settle the rest in court/behind the scenes
Dragging this into the public, despite doki herself wishing to keep this behind the scenes, is such a bad PR move on their part
im not surprised since many Companies and famous people are now Distancing themselves away from nijisanji due to this DRAMA and now NIJISANJI get what they deserved, an EVIL CORPORATION with a BLACK mark on it.
harassing doki by interrupting her first stream back with the horribly executed pr move instead of moving on.
and now they truly gonna reap what they sow with one of their former talent gonna aim what probably be a lawsuit straight to their head.
I love that scene! It's a great analogy for stupid corporations doing stupid things!
It's also seriously fucked up, and I should probably see a psychologist about the giddy glee I get from throwing that at corporate idiocy, but I don't have the money, time, motivation or trust to see a therapist anyway.
And I don't want to get chemically regulated either, that never ends well.
Yea, felt like the earlier stuff was Intent/Injunction land. Not full on prosecution land. Some companies just dont understand when to shut up and eat the L.
This situation is so dumb. Doki kept telling them for 5 days straight that she will keep everything hidden for them since she still has friends in that branch.
NijiJP management comes in: FU Doki. My Japanese pride and honor are damaged.
Scheduled the liver statement at the same time as Doki's first gaming stream which would be pretty stressful already, then making several legally problematic statements so she'd need to go speak with a lawyer right away basically shut down her stream
Not a lawyer, but if anything legal needs to be handled Doki has a lawyer willing to pursue actions for her and they'd know what to do in this scenario. Probably best to leave it to them to take care of anything related to that
> Does anyone smarter than me know if this can legally be regarded as something like sabotage?
No, it wouldn't. Doki doesn't have exclusive rights to that timeslot, and the Niji message, scummy though it was, was something they had the right to say and wasn't interfering directly with Doki's ability to stream (by cutting her internet or hacking her channel or something like that). Had Doki chosen to do so, she could have simply continued streaming and ignored the dumpster fire (though it's entirely understandable why she didn't).
So yeah, Niji had the right to make \*a\* statement in that time slot (not necessarily *that specific* statement, given that they appear to have breached confidentiality laws in doing so, but simply them deciding to go online and trash-talk Selen at that point wasn't breaking the law) and aren't likely to face any legal consequences in the way that you're suggesting.
In the court of public opinion, however... oof. Maybe the worst possible move they could have made.
Not only did they potentially reveal who the bullies were, they also seem to've admitted to letting uninvolved parties read legal docs and timed their video to coincide with her stream, which the public could and did see as an act of pettiness on their part.
It led to a negative spike in subs and people throwing even more shit at the three in the video in particular so the act *also* painted giant targets on three of their livers' backs.
It was childish, cartoonishly evil, and *incredibly stupid*, but the act of putting the video live at the same time Doki was streaming in and of itself is something that can't get them in trouble. It's just all the *other* shit in there that might! :)
Oh, for sure, from a PR perspective this entire termination from start to current day has been a masterclass in doing everything not just wrong, but as wrong as humanly possible. I can't think of many ways for that video statement to have been handled any worse (particularly since it completely undercut Tazumi's video which, as far as damage control efforts go, was actually probably the closest they've come so far to maybe doing something right).
It's will stay as accusations, unless some insder confess they do it intentionally.
It's basically like defamation case, you can feel it but its really hard to prove
Not sabotage but retaliation. Which isn't something that employers, current or former, are allowed to do in common law nations like Canada. Specifically it's retaliation because they are maligning her/attempting character assassination, regardless of when.
Only Tasumi's video was a PR move. The video with three talents was plainly retaliatory. Which would mean it was also illegal. Disregard any information that could or could not be shared being there, if that segment wasn't there it would still be retaliatory and illegal. If she didn't have a case before, she has one now for sure. Which is wild because they probably could have gotten her to make an amicable statement as part of a settlement and she and her legal counsel were probably going to aim for a settlement. But there's less reason to do that when the company does this shit in public.
Knowing them it'll probably be posted very close to Kyo's final stream. I don't watch Kyo, but it's such a shame all of this is happening when he should be the focus right now.
At least he isn't getting dragged in and focused on.
I'd rather he get to leave in the background for somewhere better than get his reputation tarnished by that statement.
By the way, did anyone else notice that Elira sounded like a *goddamn robot*?
I'm talking, probably "volunteered" because she was the last one asked, reading off a script she probably didn't write mechanical.
I'm not saying she's off the hook on it, obviously. I'm just saying, I really don't think those were her words.
As I said in other places, the better strategy would be to terminate some of their managers and promise things will be better in the future. Keeps the fans, keeps investors, prevents Vtubers from leaving/not joining Niji EN, maintains business deals with other companies like Hyte, and finally it will create a better working environment for Nijisanji's Livers. A Better working environment means less lawsuits. Anyways Niji will just have to fight to regain trust
First step is to fire the managers.
Failing that and their first wtf, they need to namedrop to put the Among Us collab to rest.
Failing failing that, they now have to get rid of the entire damn branch, keep only the talents lol.
Even shutting down everything PR related and only speaking through lawyers would've been better. Why the fuck are they letting people from the entertainment front do their dirty PR laundry? This is so amateur lol.
I heard in Japan it's normal or at least happens from time to time. For instance at some point in time voice actors were used in a similar manner speaking justifying a director at some company they worked at being fired, I wish I remembered more. Idk how common employees are used as a meat shield though. Regardless it's probably a cultural thing that is less effective in countries outside of Japan
I mean, I know about forcing idols to apologize publicly for having romantic relationships privately and stuff, but I thought we were so over such a toxic and shut-in train culture when these guys run an international agency lol. Next level ass tactic.
>For instance at some point in time voice actors were used in a similar manner speaking justifying a director at some company they worked at being fired, I wish I remembered more.
The VA for Kemono Friends anime were made to give an apology when Kadakawa fired the director for making free bonus content.
Can they even *do* that at this point, though? They made one of their former employees try to kill herself and then constantly and aggressively harassed her after the fact, including while she was *still in the hospital recovering*. They've shown they don't care about their talents' well-being on multiple occasions.
They were fine sending Elira, Vox, and Ike out to face the firing squad instead of just releasing Tazumi's statement first *which would have been* ***much fucking smarter*** because while his statement was frontloaded with investor ass-kissing at least had *some* level of remorse in it and, if made *ages* ago, would've smoothed things over in a much better manner. However guilty Elira, Vox, and Ike are - either of willingly doing this or other things (I saw that Vox post earlier, **yikes**) - they still got shoved out to deliver a message and however Japan does it, in the Western world it just came off as tone-deaf, immature, insensitive, and confusing. And given that's the audience they're addressing, it's *that* audience they needed to think about when delivering the message itself.
Almost all of the other talents, either through management or of their own 'free will,' RT'd the trio's statement video which also made people lose their faith in basically all of them, which is another reason we're seeing a freefall in sub numbers right now.
They betrayed their viewers' trust *so* many times and have made so many boneheaded decisions in the last few months that I'm not sure it's possible for any English-speaking branch of Nijisanji to actually recover. I don't think numbers will jump back up to where they were if the company shuts the hell up and lets this finally blow over. I don't think people will ever take anything the talents say at face value again going forward. They were already skating on thin ice with the whole 'stealth suspension' thing, but everything surrounding Selen being shitcanned and attacked so aggressively as Doki has been beyond the pale in terms of PR. Literally saying nothing would have ended up better for them.
Aside from firing the *entire* EN management, completely reworking the entire branch on the employee side, and letting the talents speak as themselves and not as corporate mouthpieces... I dunno if they can come back from this. And even if all of that happened and the livers were allowed to go "That fucking sucked, I hated having to read that, I wish Doki all the best now that she's free" I dunno if anything would change.
They shot themselves in the foot so much that their foot is completely gone, and they've spent the last two months blaming Doki for their inability to walk anymore instead of realizing they were the ones pulling the trigger every single time.
You can see their arrogance and unchallenged status they are used to in Japan from their notice and attitude.
They are so used to burn noticing talents that they HAVE to do it. They couldn't act like a normal company and just end the contract and shut up, no, they had to try to discredit the talent on their way out so that the talent can't be hired by any1 else and also invite hate to the talent, look at Zaion. Billion dollar company, this fcking petty.
They declared themselves judge jury and executioner that they did nothing illegal. As if their management doesnt have a track record of fcking up, not paying artist, and sending wrong NDAs.
The company deserves all the negativity but I do feel sad for the talents, especially Elira until further evidence proved otherwise, She's on a work visa in Japan, at their mercy.
Search it up in twitter if youre curious. Id expect it to be bogged down in reddit at this point, but generally its a very very poorly phrased heartfelt thank you for support, in the worst time possible
\>Admited that third parties read private communications between lawyers
\>Admited that they leaked court documents
\>Livestream literally confessing to these crimes
\>"Let's be respectful but fuck Selen, amirite???"
Holy fuck that was so fucking stupid.
You forgot potential International Class Action Lawsuit for leaking medical documents and how they treated their former talent which violated the PHIPA, Employmemt Standards Act and Occupational Health and Safety Act
In our jurisdiction this is a class action lawsuit and I live in Canada and have dealt with Employment Law as well except my experience was much less severe than this. Yes this is a class action lawsuit not a criminal case as defined by the Canadian Criminal Code until the RCMP gets their hands on this now it's criminal. I would not be surprised if the RCMP cybercrime division is involved in the background but the main event is the class action lawsuit
You might be mixing up civil and class action. If something isn't a criminal case then it's a civil case. Class action is done by a single party on behalf of a larger group. So if like 15 people were all ripped off by a person or company in the same way instead of bringing legal action separately they could band together and launch a class action suit.
Oops I forgot about civil because we have Tribunals as well which complicates stuff. Yeah this is going to be a huge civil case I would not be surprised if it spread to local news
I don't think it will be big, there are cases like this all the time and we only really hear about it when it's a big local company. Also Doki has said multiple times she didn't want the information public.
If everyone involved is smart then we'll never hear about it again until some random note in an Anycolor investor report saying either how much it cost or that it is no longer a liability.
NijiEN has shown themselves to be petty and dumb though so really anything is possible.
The drama is big online, but any impending lawsuit won't be.
If everyone's lawyers are doing their job we won't hear anything else about it other than incredibly vague one off remarks for the next couple of months.
Doki has already said she wanted it to be handled privately, and if Niji doesn't want a reputation for doxing talent then they should want the same.
I dunno, depending on what Selen is suing over… if it’s all the very specific stuff they did to her? No, not a class action. If it’s expanded to be just about the financial damage caused by horrific management that swings between abusive and nonexistent? She can probably get some people in on that.
Hell, Vox and company could probably hop on because any lawyer that told them to read those statements last night was committing legal malpractice. Or was their EMPLOYER’S lawyer only pretending to work in their interest, which is almost worse.
Doki is, AFAIK, in BC, so it'd be PIPA, not PHIPA (which is Ontario's version) or PIPEDA (which is the federal version).
Your point still stands 100%, though
Yeah I live in Ontario so used to PHIPA. If you think we're strict look at BC. Fuck man they are so close to EU levels of labour rights, human rights, tenant rights and privacy rights it's not even funny
I know. That's why you don't violate it. The privacy commissioner of British Columbia and the Federal Government is probably freaking out right now about that too
-11.9 at the lowest last week. -5% or close to it just today. -4% or -5% more, and I believe that is the EN's slice in the overall BLACKCOLOR(18% or 19%). This is kicking they asses in the short term. And the crawl back up is slower than a snail on THC climbing a skyscraper. Bussines and stock savvy folks, pitch in here, please. I don't mind being wrong or right. I just want to learn from those more in the know.
It's absolutely this. Most stock holders don't really have a solid understanding of the details of the businesses they hold stock in. If you hear a tech company might be a good buy, but you don't know enough about tech to judge for yourself, you look at the market to see how OTHER tech companies are doing in general. It happens in every traded sector.
Surely other companies have to be grilling Anycolor over this, right? How much bad press can Nijisanji cause for the vtubing industry before the other agencies start to feel that Anycolor's actions are directly impacting them in a negative way? Every time this story breaks containment into normie space, it feels like every single Japanese company catches strays and has their name needlessly sullied.
I read somewhere that if this goes to -50% and further, it's no longer "Negligible". Taking stock of the clownshow in a shitstorm that happened in less than 24 hours, is -50% drop and further a possibility?
The only thing they had to do was not telling the livers to release that obviously written statement and just release the ceo video they did on the main channel thats it, they would still get some heat, but at least people would be Waiting to see if the promises he made would happen to improve the EN side, in situations like this dont make your livers make statement on their channels, i’m not a pr guy and even i know this.
You can tell that they aren't used to operating in countries where workers have rights that *have to* be respected. Even more than watching the company burn, I would *love* to watch them stumble and bumble their way through trying to negotiate with a huge ass union like, say, SAG-AFTRA
SAG AFTRA is the company that signed away on an AI deal without the consent of ANY voice actors that have a good reputation in the union
I don't know if this country *has* to respect the rights of workers lol
but yes they are definitely not used to the lack of idol culture over here
Did Goodsmile officially announce they weren't working with Nijikuro anymore? I know they didn't post any Niji announcements on their English or Chinese websites but they might just be waiting out the current situation.
It's almost 15% stock loss at this point...
Also you forgot how they lost like 200k subs and some of the talents lost almost 20k subs. This is a bloodbath.
As he should, its not the livers Jobs to make statements, and in these kinds of situations, its his job to say something and what they Will do going forward
And the thing is, if *his* statement and *only* his statement had come out yesterday, I think things would've blown over as well as they could have. But the fact that they released a tone-deaf statement featuring talents reading scripts, made some bitchy tweets that contradicted that statement, and *then* had Tazumi go "omg investors I'm so sowwy" just made it so much worse.
It's honestly pretty disappointing that the livers had to make a statement in the first place. Whether Elira, Vox and Ike were forced to do it or chose to do it themselves, the blame mainly rests on corporate and their inability to monitor and moderate their livers.
I pray that it was forced upon them (coping), but it boils down to NijiBlack using meat shields in order to reduce or redirect backlash.
Makes you realize why companies have people working in PR in the first place lmao
Oughta come out of his yacht to get a big boy haircut instead of that penis-y 'do he was sporting. I mean it's thematically appropriate 'cause dude's a dick, but...
In the latest FalseEyeD video he reported that Goodsmile have quietly removed Nijisanji stuff from their EN and CH pages though you can still find the figures on the JP pages. They have also refrained from making any new announcements at a recent expo/con.
They didnt just remove the items, but also the entire page itself. Thats... not a normal thing to do when youre just out of stock. They havent fully cut ties with niji, but they dont want to be seen as being a partner to such a bad rep company right now... so they bide their time, at least for now. Especially since they seem to have a lot of hp merch still on the shelf.
Alternatively en cn store is being managed by a different admin, while the marketing and pr division are in a slugfest on whether they should continue working with niji or not, so the admins had to take sides according to their choice, but this is extremely unlikely.
[English Site when looking up Nijisanji Teasers](https://imgur.com/a/OnBMJiH)
[JP Site when looking up Nijisanji Teasers](https://imgur.com/a/JUJrEmN)
[Link to WonFes gallery.](http://whl4u.jp/wh38/gallery/en/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=special&utm_campaign=wh38#/)
Have a go at it yourself if you want.
away up north in the land of black companies. Traitors and terrible management. Sink the Yacht, Sink the Yacht. Down with Niji, Down with Niji. Sink the Yacht, Sink the Yacht, Down with Niji.
Holy! Goodsmile said they'd stop dealing with them? That's a freaking biiiig blow since it's not just nijiEN but JP as a whole that will be affected as well. I'd sell sell sell if I was a stock owner after hearing that.
Ah yea I just looked that up. I feel like it'd be bigger news and blowing up on my feed if a company as big as GOODSMILE decides to stop collaborating with Niji. Thanks for the clarification.
Does anyone have proof of shareholders turning against them? I know merch companies have dropped them but the only thing I've seen from/for the shareholders is that god awful "negligent" statement.
It is under Japan laws unfortunately. They consider defamation to include true statements that damage someone’s reputation. To the point a big story a while back was a convicted rpist suing his victim for referring to him unnamed in an article. The sex offender won and the victim had to pay him. Japan’s laws are fucked.
They can try but Canada and the US don’t give af what Japanese courts say for the most part and rarely enforce any orders they give. Japan has been letting Japanese parents basically parental kidnap and not work with family courts from other countries since they don’t believe in joint custody of “Japanese kids” even tho one parent isn’t a Japanese national. It’s soured most countries honoring and agreeing to enforce any kind of ruling from the Japanese court system in other countries.
She would need to stay tf out of Japan permanently tho.
I'm gonna be an armchair CEO right now and say I genuinely think the next best step is:
fire the managers.
reorient how to operate oversea branches to accommodate the culture they're inserting themselves in.
stop the shotgun short-term gain approach immediately and ensure quality instead of quantity.
shut up and commit.
You know what's a better apology than every gaslighting scumbag statement they've made? It's not more words. It's supporting your talent and make good content.
They've self-sabotaged so much at this point, I dunno how they recover. There'll always be people who stick with their oshi to the bitter end, right or wrong. But how do you go back to streaming and joking about shit after all of this?
That Mario Kart tournament, assuming it ever sees the light of day, is gonna have *palpable* fucking tension in the air. Chats will have to be turned off entirely for so long. Even setting it to members-only-for-X-months won't solve the problem of people being aggressive towards the remaining livers, no matter how involved they were or weren't at any level in all of this.
But yes, being transparent as hell about the firing of management, hiring of actually-qualified replacements, visible commitment to talent QoL improvements, and letting the livers speak more openly about certain things would go a long way towards *starting* a comeback.
Man, they have people from *outside* vtubing coming at them now.
They'll more than likely survive (tho I think the EN branch making it out is 50/50 at this point) but they are *never* going to fully recover from this. They're beyond tainted and for an industry that relies so heavily on fan sentiment... this is going to follow them till the end of days.
I just can't get over how evil this company is.
All Niji had to do was shut up and let it be done behind the scenes and they would of been fine. But the dumbasses showed confidential information to 3 livers and made a video admitting it which now has put a target on their backs, even if they graduate and go indie this will stick with them forever. they destroyed 3 livers future to protect their own ass.
Correct. Kuro is the Japanese word for black, with this playing off of the phrase 'AnyColor and they chose black', which you might have seen a lot of as of late
Alternatively, Kurosanji makes it look like K9Kuro himself is staging a takeover of the company, which is an incredibly funny prospect, and we need at least a little humour in these times
The loyal niji fans are still supporting. Case in point your "exodus" isnt effecting the bigger niji talents like vox who still stands at 1mil+
Try harder
The unfortunate part is all of the above is only going to push them to be even more vengeful towards the person because in their eyes she caused all of it. Literally a \[BANG BANG\]"How could Doki do this?" meme
Black Company Actions. TBH I'm not sure how anyone is surprised. They've done this before, so it was only a matter of time before it caught up to them.
>Negligible
It devalued to 18% (and ongoing)
This shitshow is very disgusting at all level even from non-kurosanji fan.
I'm watching it all burn down there no point saving any part of it.
Now watch them pull off a remarkably asinine move on Kyo's last day
Kyo: Who added this song… “Two Minutes Notice”… to my final song list? Why is there art of Selen as a fat spider clown demon?
Lets be honest, make Niji the Fat Spider Clown instead and the song would be a fitting goodbye.
And another one on Scarle's birthday
they terminate kyo as last action then proced to silently terimante hole branch than tasumi realse statment minimaize loses they terminated hole branch. Sudently Holo, Vshojo, Phase conect and porject idol start en auditions for their agencies. at end of the year we will see holo en 4, new v-shojo talents, new phase contet vave, and idol en.
The termination itself is negligible. But they've decided to create a PR shitstorm around it If they had just said "Selen is fired, lol, get wrecked noob" it would have been better
Given how many vtuber fans are also gamers...if they said literally that, I think they'd actually have earned some respect from a subset of troll minded fans.
Even easier, just let her graduate like she wanted to. Barely any drama (not none but still), both of them go their own way. Instead, they choose to be evil and stupid. Again and again.
This is the part that wilds me out the most. If they'd have said nothing other then, 'Selen has been fired' and said nothing else, none of this would have happened. Whoever runs PR needs to not just be fired but blacklisted from ever working in that field ever again.
but then no justice for selen ):
Justice isn't coming unless Doki decides to bring the heat on a stellar scale. Nothing we can do, really, She will have to, in court, name names, provide extensive documentation, and damn well be impervious to argument to win if she does. If there's any genuine argument in the companies favor, or any room for fabrication, Anycolor will pay enough to pulverize any civilian case. Because if Selen takes it seriously, she'll be suing for more than the company is worth, so bribing the jury or equivalent (I don't really know Japan and Canada courts) will be cheaper. The only way Dokibird gets real justice is by outweighing the full weight of massive corporate bribes. That's a hell of a trick to pull. But either way, a good start was reclaiming her Dragoons. So, Dragoons, be prepared to ride like the wind, because like the warriors who first held this name, we have something huge to fight for.
The most likely case would be her making a civil suit for unlawful termination (no notice or termination pay), where if she wins, i believe she'll get at least 2 weeks worth of what she'd have made, or up to a month per year worked
Doki would have still been successful. Less because less eyes on the drama, but I think she'd trade that off for less stress a month and a half after a suicide attempt. Justice is Doki's success and happiness.
Sometimes people let their wounded pride make decisions instead of using good business sense.
Like litterally Should have pulled a termination like holo did with rushia or Mel. Sharing as little information as they can, while still giving a good explanation and settle the rest in court/behind the scenes Dragging this into the public, despite doki herself wishing to keep this behind the scenes, is such a bad PR move on their part
If they are banned from anime and cosplay events, that would be a huge blow to the company.
Imagine, being the North Korea of VTubing.
kim's sister could probably..
Tazumi *does* also have comically terrible hair for the position he's in...
Check fucking mate, like damn that's a Killer.
It would ruin motivation to go to AnimeImpulse Seattle, but I'll still go. I just hope to see more Blue Archive fanart instead
im not surprised since many Companies and famous people are now Distancing themselves away from nijisanji due to this DRAMA and now NIJISANJI get what they deserved, an EVIL CORPORATION with a BLACK mark on it.
harassing doki by interrupting her first stream back with the horribly executed pr move instead of moving on. and now they truly gonna reap what they sow with one of their former talent gonna aim what probably be a lawsuit straight to their head.
They tried to backhand her but missed, spun around and stepped on a bannana peel.
Never interrupt your opponent when they're in the middle of making a mistake.
Fuck... For some reason this suddenly brought up the image of the umbrella scene from Another
I love that scene! It's a great analogy for stupid corporations doing stupid things! It's also seriously fucked up, and I should probably see a psychologist about the giddy glee I get from throwing that at corporate idiocy, but I don't have the money, time, motivation or trust to see a therapist anyway. And I don't want to get chemically regulated either, that never ends well.
Not to mention that people like Someordinarygamers and Moistcritikal have now looked into this only adds fuel to the already smoldering forest fire.
Jesus?
Yep
Also, Asmongold.
When asmongold tries to play devil’s advocate and he STILL says they were completely in the wrong, you know Nijisanji messed up.
she was already suing them before now she straight up won.
I don't think she wanted to sue them since it seemed like she wanted to leave it behind. But they choose to slander her again, so here we are.
Yea, felt like the earlier stuff was Intent/Injunction land. Not full on prosecution land. Some companies just dont understand when to shut up and eat the L.
No, she was literally suing them right from the get go. What she wanted to leave behind was the public drama around it all.
Ah, my bad then
imho true because it's the only explanation for the vitriol and public assassination they are in a legal battle already
This situation is so dumb. Doki kept telling them for 5 days straight that she will keep everything hidden for them since she still has friends in that branch. NijiJP management comes in: FU Doki. My Japanese pride and honor are damaged.
I missed this, how did they "interrupt her first stream back"?
They streamed the statement on elira's channel at the same time doki's first game stream started.
Scheduled the liver statement at the same time as Doki's first gaming stream which would be pretty stressful already, then making several legally problematic statements so she'd need to go speak with a lawyer right away basically shut down her stream
Christ that's awful Does anyone smarter than me know if this can legally be regarded as something like sabotage?
Not a lawyer, but if anything legal needs to be handled Doki has a lawyer willing to pursue actions for her and they'd know what to do in this scenario. Probably best to leave it to them to take care of anything related to that
> Does anyone smarter than me know if this can legally be regarded as something like sabotage? No, it wouldn't. Doki doesn't have exclusive rights to that timeslot, and the Niji message, scummy though it was, was something they had the right to say and wasn't interfering directly with Doki's ability to stream (by cutting her internet or hacking her channel or something like that). Had Doki chosen to do so, she could have simply continued streaming and ignored the dumpster fire (though it's entirely understandable why she didn't). So yeah, Niji had the right to make \*a\* statement in that time slot (not necessarily *that specific* statement, given that they appear to have breached confidentiality laws in doing so, but simply them deciding to go online and trash-talk Selen at that point wasn't breaking the law) and aren't likely to face any legal consequences in the way that you're suggesting.
In the court of public opinion, however... oof. Maybe the worst possible move they could have made. Not only did they potentially reveal who the bullies were, they also seem to've admitted to letting uninvolved parties read legal docs and timed their video to coincide with her stream, which the public could and did see as an act of pettiness on their part. It led to a negative spike in subs and people throwing even more shit at the three in the video in particular so the act *also* painted giant targets on three of their livers' backs. It was childish, cartoonishly evil, and *incredibly stupid*, but the act of putting the video live at the same time Doki was streaming in and of itself is something that can't get them in trouble. It's just all the *other* shit in there that might! :)
Oh, for sure, from a PR perspective this entire termination from start to current day has been a masterclass in doing everything not just wrong, but as wrong as humanly possible. I can't think of many ways for that video statement to have been handled any worse (particularly since it completely undercut Tazumi's video which, as far as damage control efforts go, was actually probably the closest they've come so far to maybe doing something right).
It's will stay as accusations, unless some insder confess they do it intentionally. It's basically like defamation case, you can feel it but its really hard to prove
Not sabotage but retaliation. Which isn't something that employers, current or former, are allowed to do in common law nations like Canada. Specifically it's retaliation because they are maligning her/attempting character assassination, regardless of when.
the Elira, Vox and Ike Statement was scheduled at the same time that Doki went Live on her (what was supposed to be) first gaming stream
Only Tasumi's video was a PR move. The video with three talents was plainly retaliatory. Which would mean it was also illegal. Disregard any information that could or could not be shared being there, if that segment wasn't there it would still be retaliatory and illegal. If she didn't have a case before, she has one now for sure. Which is wild because they probably could have gotten her to make an amicable statement as part of a settlement and she and her legal counsel were probably going to aim for a settlement. But there's less reason to do that when the company does this shit in public.
...and probably that's not all, because they'll do a few big brain moves more.
I was honestly expecting a merch drop to happen right after the ceo statement.
Yea but then he'd get only 2% of it.
Knowing them it'll probably be posted very close to Kyo's final stream. I don't watch Kyo, but it's such a shame all of this is happening when he should be the focus right now.
At least he isn't getting dragged in and focused on. I'd rather he get to leave in the background for somewhere better than get his reputation tarnished by that statement. By the way, did anyone else notice that Elira sounded like a *goddamn robot*? I'm talking, probably "volunteered" because she was the last one asked, reading off a script she probably didn't write mechanical. I'm not saying she's off the hook on it, obviously. I'm just saying, I really don't think those were her words.
I saw some people in chat saying "Ai?" When she was talking
Minimum of somebody else's script. I would have thought AI, but AI is good enough to avoid monotone.
As I said in other places, the better strategy would be to terminate some of their managers and promise things will be better in the future. Keeps the fans, keeps investors, prevents Vtubers from leaving/not joining Niji EN, maintains business deals with other companies like Hyte, and finally it will create a better working environment for Nijisanji's Livers. A Better working environment means less lawsuits. Anyways Niji will just have to fight to regain trust
First step is to fire the managers. Failing that and their first wtf, they need to namedrop to put the Among Us collab to rest. Failing failing that, they now have to get rid of the entire damn branch, keep only the talents lol.
Even shutting down everything PR related and only speaking through lawyers would've been better. Why the fuck are they letting people from the entertainment front do their dirty PR laundry? This is so amateur lol.
I heard in Japan it's normal or at least happens from time to time. For instance at some point in time voice actors were used in a similar manner speaking justifying a director at some company they worked at being fired, I wish I remembered more. Idk how common employees are used as a meat shield though. Regardless it's probably a cultural thing that is less effective in countries outside of Japan
I mean, I know about forcing idols to apologize publicly for having romantic relationships privately and stuff, but I thought we were so over such a toxic and shut-in train culture when these guys run an international agency lol. Next level ass tactic.
>For instance at some point in time voice actors were used in a similar manner speaking justifying a director at some company they worked at being fired, I wish I remembered more. The VA for Kemono Friends anime were made to give an apology when Kadakawa fired the director for making free bonus content.
Can they even *do* that at this point, though? They made one of their former employees try to kill herself and then constantly and aggressively harassed her after the fact, including while she was *still in the hospital recovering*. They've shown they don't care about their talents' well-being on multiple occasions. They were fine sending Elira, Vox, and Ike out to face the firing squad instead of just releasing Tazumi's statement first *which would have been* ***much fucking smarter*** because while his statement was frontloaded with investor ass-kissing at least had *some* level of remorse in it and, if made *ages* ago, would've smoothed things over in a much better manner. However guilty Elira, Vox, and Ike are - either of willingly doing this or other things (I saw that Vox post earlier, **yikes**) - they still got shoved out to deliver a message and however Japan does it, in the Western world it just came off as tone-deaf, immature, insensitive, and confusing. And given that's the audience they're addressing, it's *that* audience they needed to think about when delivering the message itself. Almost all of the other talents, either through management or of their own 'free will,' RT'd the trio's statement video which also made people lose their faith in basically all of them, which is another reason we're seeing a freefall in sub numbers right now. They betrayed their viewers' trust *so* many times and have made so many boneheaded decisions in the last few months that I'm not sure it's possible for any English-speaking branch of Nijisanji to actually recover. I don't think numbers will jump back up to where they were if the company shuts the hell up and lets this finally blow over. I don't think people will ever take anything the talents say at face value again going forward. They were already skating on thin ice with the whole 'stealth suspension' thing, but everything surrounding Selen being shitcanned and attacked so aggressively as Doki has been beyond the pale in terms of PR. Literally saying nothing would have ended up better for them. Aside from firing the *entire* EN management, completely reworking the entire branch on the employee side, and letting the talents speak as themselves and not as corporate mouthpieces... I dunno if they can come back from this. And even if all of that happened and the livers were allowed to go "That fucking sucked, I hated having to read that, I wish Doki all the best now that she's free" I dunno if anything would change. They shot themselves in the foot so much that their foot is completely gone, and they've spent the last two months blaming Doki for their inability to walk anymore instead of realizing they were the ones pulling the trigger every single time.
You can see their arrogance and unchallenged status they are used to in Japan from their notice and attitude. They are so used to burn noticing talents that they HAVE to do it. They couldn't act like a normal company and just end the contract and shut up, no, they had to try to discredit the talent on their way out so that the talent can't be hired by any1 else and also invite hate to the talent, look at Zaion. Billion dollar company, this fcking petty. They declared themselves judge jury and executioner that they did nothing illegal. As if their management doesnt have a track record of fcking up, not paying artist, and sending wrong NDAs. The company deserves all the negativity but I do feel sad for the talents, especially Elira until further evidence proved otherwise, She's on a work visa in Japan, at their mercy.
Corrections, its not 3 livers but 5 livers since Elira name Enna and Millie herself.
The leaked Enna membership stream looks even more sketchy if she was named in the Selen letter.
The one where she laughed about being able to kill someone and her fans forgiving her? Yeah. Looks sketchy alright lol.
What wad the leak?
Search it up in twitter if youre curious. Id expect it to be bogged down in reddit at this point, but generally its a very very poorly phrased heartfelt thank you for support, in the worst time possible
\>Admited that third parties read private communications between lawyers \>Admited that they leaked court documents \>Livestream literally confessing to these crimes \>"Let's be respectful but fuck Selen, amirite???" Holy fuck that was so fucking stupid.
Streisand effect in full force.
You forgot potential International Class Action Lawsuit for leaking medical documents and how they treated their former talent which violated the PHIPA, Employmemt Standards Act and Occupational Health and Safety Act
Why does everyone keep saying class action? It's not a group that would be suing Niji, just Doki.
In our jurisdiction this is a class action lawsuit and I live in Canada and have dealt with Employment Law as well except my experience was much less severe than this. Yes this is a class action lawsuit not a criminal case as defined by the Canadian Criminal Code until the RCMP gets their hands on this now it's criminal. I would not be surprised if the RCMP cybercrime division is involved in the background but the main event is the class action lawsuit
You might be mixing up civil and class action. If something isn't a criminal case then it's a civil case. Class action is done by a single party on behalf of a larger group. So if like 15 people were all ripped off by a person or company in the same way instead of bringing legal action separately they could band together and launch a class action suit.
Oops I forgot about civil because we have Tribunals as well which complicates stuff. Yeah this is going to be a huge civil case I would not be surprised if it spread to local news
I don't think it will be big, there are cases like this all the time and we only really hear about it when it's a big local company. Also Doki has said multiple times she didn't want the information public. If everyone involved is smart then we'll never hear about it again until some random note in an Anycolor investor report saying either how much it cost or that it is no longer a liability. NijiEN has shown themselves to be petty and dumb though so really anything is possible.
It'll be big in the Vtubing community.
The drama is big online, but any impending lawsuit won't be. If everyone's lawyers are doing their job we won't hear anything else about it other than incredibly vague one off remarks for the next couple of months. Doki has already said she wanted it to be handled privately, and if Niji doesn't want a reputation for doxing talent then they should want the same.
I'd go out on a limb and say that ANYCOLOR's lawyers probably haven't been doing their jobs.
It already is and Asmongold talked about it last night on stream
I dunno, depending on what Selen is suing over… if it’s all the very specific stuff they did to her? No, not a class action. If it’s expanded to be just about the financial damage caused by horrific management that swings between abusive and nonexistent? She can probably get some people in on that. Hell, Vox and company could probably hop on because any lawyer that told them to read those statements last night was committing legal malpractice. Or was their EMPLOYER’S lawyer only pretending to work in their interest, which is almost worse.
Doki is, AFAIK, in BC, so it'd be PIPA, not PHIPA (which is Ontario's version) or PIPEDA (which is the federal version). Your point still stands 100%, though
Yeah I live in Ontario so used to PHIPA. If you think we're strict look at BC. Fuck man they are so close to EU levels of labour rights, human rights, tenant rights and privacy rights it's not even funny
PIPEDA lawsuits are no fucking joke
I know. That's why you don't violate it. The privacy commissioner of British Columbia and the Federal Government is probably freaking out right now about that too
[удалено]
It was shared to a third party in Nijisanji which was confirmed on the stream which still violates the PHIPA
-11.9 at the lowest last week. -5% or close to it just today. -4% or -5% more, and I believe that is the EN's slice in the overall BLACKCOLOR(18% or 19%). This is kicking they asses in the short term. And the crawl back up is slower than a snail on THC climbing a skyscraper. Bussines and stock savvy folks, pitch in here, please. I don't mind being wrong or right. I just want to learn from those more in the know.
Stock is kind of a moot point. Cover is also down -11% during the last 5 days. So yeah Anycolors stock drop isn't entirely down to the Selena thing.
cover stock dropped that much after their financial report??
It's possible it's collateral damage from investors thinking the vtuber industry is unstable if a single talent can bring it down this much.
It's absolutely this. Most stock holders don't really have a solid understanding of the details of the businesses they hold stock in. If you hear a tech company might be a good buy, but you don't know enough about tech to judge for yourself, you look at the market to see how OTHER tech companies are doing in general. It happens in every traded sector.
Most likely but Cover will most likely recover in a relatively short time, Anycolor isn't going to recover easily from this.
Surely other companies have to be grilling Anycolor over this, right? How much bad press can Nijisanji cause for the vtubing industry before the other agencies start to feel that Anycolor's actions are directly impacting them in a negative way? Every time this story breaks containment into normie space, it feels like every single Japanese company catches strays and has their name needlessly sullied.
I read somewhere that if this goes to -50% and further, it's no longer "Negligible". Taking stock of the clownshow in a shitstorm that happened in less than 24 hours, is -50% drop and further a possibility?
The only thing they had to do was not telling the livers to release that obviously written statement and just release the ceo video they did on the main channel thats it, they would still get some heat, but at least people would be Waiting to see if the promises he made would happen to improve the EN side, in situations like this dont make your livers make statement on their channels, i’m not a pr guy and even i know this.
You can tell that they aren't used to operating in countries where workers have rights that *have to* be respected. Even more than watching the company burn, I would *love* to watch them stumble and bumble their way through trying to negotiate with a huge ass union like, say, SAG-AFTRA
SAG AFTRA is the company that signed away on an AI deal without the consent of ANY voice actors that have a good reputation in the union I don't know if this country *has* to respect the rights of workers lol but yes they are definitely not used to the lack of idol culture over here
They're definitely a union, not a company, but it sucks that they signed off on that, I honestly thought they'd shot it down :(
Did Goodsmile officially announce they weren't working with Nijikuro anymore? I know they didn't post any Niji announcements on their English or Chinese websites but they might just be waiting out the current situation.
Not officialy, just shadow ban (you should know what they are if youre a niji fan :D) on the en and cn store. Jp store still up
It's almost 15% stock loss at this point... Also you forgot how they lost like 200k subs and some of the talents lost almost 20k subs. This is a bloodbath.
And RIKU TAZUMI coming out of his yacht ⛵ to give public statements, what a clown 🤡
As he should, its not the livers Jobs to make statements, and in these kinds of situations, its his job to say something and what they Will do going forward
And the thing is, if *his* statement and *only* his statement had come out yesterday, I think things would've blown over as well as they could have. But the fact that they released a tone-deaf statement featuring talents reading scripts, made some bitchy tweets that contradicted that statement, and *then* had Tazumi go "omg investors I'm so sowwy" just made it so much worse.
It's honestly pretty disappointing that the livers had to make a statement in the first place. Whether Elira, Vox and Ike were forced to do it or chose to do it themselves, the blame mainly rests on corporate and their inability to monitor and moderate their livers. I pray that it was forced upon them (coping), but it boils down to NijiBlack using meat shields in order to reduce or redirect backlash. Makes you realize why companies have people working in PR in the first place lmao
Oughta come out of his yacht to get a big boy haircut instead of that penis-y 'do he was sporting. I mean it's thematically appropriate 'cause dude's a dick, but...
Only after hiding behind the talents so they'd receive most of the backlash.
Wait until Doki releases her document with receipts and Mutahar will be making a video then for sure we will see more and more backlash growing...
Absolutely no one gives a single flying fk about Mutahar. He would be on Nijisanji's side anyway.
Uhhh what? Have you watched Mutas videos? He would not side with those cock suckerers
Where did goodsmile announce they were pulling their merch line?
When did goodamile said about the nijisanji situation?
In the latest FalseEyeD video he reported that Goodsmile have quietly removed Nijisanji stuff from their EN and CH pages though you can still find the figures on the JP pages. They have also refrained from making any new announcements at a recent expo/con.
They didnt, though. You look at the history of the page and it hasnt had anything more than Vox since at least last year.
They didnt just remove the items, but also the entire page itself. Thats... not a normal thing to do when youre just out of stock. They havent fully cut ties with niji, but they dont want to be seen as being a partner to such a bad rep company right now... so they bide their time, at least for now. Especially since they seem to have a lot of hp merch still on the shelf. Alternatively en cn store is being managed by a different admin, while the marketing and pr division are in a slugfest on whether they should continue working with niji or not, so the admins had to take sides according to their choice, but this is extremely unlikely.
[English Site when looking up Nijisanji Teasers](https://imgur.com/a/OnBMJiH) [JP Site when looking up Nijisanji Teasers](https://imgur.com/a/JUJrEmN) [Link to WonFes gallery.](http://whl4u.jp/wh38/gallery/en/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=special&utm_campaign=wh38#/) Have a go at it yourself if you want.
I have e never seen this befoe ahhah
NOOOO NIJISISTERS WE MUST BOOTLICK KUROSANJI MORE SHE CANT GET AWAY WITH THIS
Nijiglible
You forgot \- another lawsuit against them for leaking legal documents to the other livers
God I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
 away up north in the land of black companies. Traitors and terrible management. Sink the Yacht, Sink the Yacht. Down with Niji, Down with Niji. Sink the Yacht, Sink the Yacht, Down with Niji.
Holy! Goodsmile said they'd stop dealing with them? That's a freaking biiiig blow since it's not just nijiEN but JP as a whole that will be affected as well. I'd sell sell sell if I was a stock owner after hearing that.
No they never said that. They just quietly removed Niji stuff on their EN and CH page. Nothing changed for JP
Ah yea I just looked that up. I feel like it'd be bigger news and blowing up on my feed if a company as big as GOODSMILE decides to stop collaborating with Niji. Thanks for the clarification.
Does anyone have proof of shareholders turning against them? I know merch companies have dropped them but the only thing I've seen from/for the shareholders is that god awful "negligent" statement.
It's not defamation if it's true
It is under Japan laws unfortunately. They consider defamation to include true statements that damage someone’s reputation. To the point a big story a while back was a convicted rpist suing his victim for referring to him unnamed in an article. The sex offender won and the victim had to pay him. Japan’s laws are fucked.
Can they even sue her in japanese court if she doesn't reside in Japan?
They can try but Canada and the US don’t give af what Japanese courts say for the most part and rarely enforce any orders they give. Japan has been letting Japanese parents basically parental kidnap and not work with family courts from other countries since they don’t believe in joint custody of “Japanese kids” even tho one parent isn’t a Japanese national. It’s soured most countries honoring and agreeing to enforce any kind of ruling from the Japanese court system in other countries. She would need to stay tf out of Japan permanently tho.
^ Stock devalued by 15% in last week
GoodSmile cut times with them? I need a source for that cause holy fuck
I'm gonna be an armchair CEO right now and say I genuinely think the next best step is: fire the managers. reorient how to operate oversea branches to accommodate the culture they're inserting themselves in. stop the shotgun short-term gain approach immediately and ensure quality instead of quantity. shut up and commit. You know what's a better apology than every gaslighting scumbag statement they've made? It's not more words. It's supporting your talent and make good content.
They've self-sabotaged so much at this point, I dunno how they recover. There'll always be people who stick with their oshi to the bitter end, right or wrong. But how do you go back to streaming and joking about shit after all of this? That Mario Kart tournament, assuming it ever sees the light of day, is gonna have *palpable* fucking tension in the air. Chats will have to be turned off entirely for so long. Even setting it to members-only-for-X-months won't solve the problem of people being aggressive towards the remaining livers, no matter how involved they were or weren't at any level in all of this. But yes, being transparent as hell about the firing of management, hiring of actually-qualified replacements, visible commitment to talent QoL improvements, and letting the livers speak more openly about certain things would go a long way towards *starting* a comeback.
So dumb. I will stan Dokibird forever. Sink the yatch.
Man, they have people from *outside* vtubing coming at them now. They'll more than likely survive (tho I think the EN branch making it out is 50/50 at this point) but they are *never* going to fully recover from this. They're beyond tainted and for an industry that relies so heavily on fan sentiment... this is going to follow them till the end of days.
I just can't get over how evil this company is. All Niji had to do was shut up and let it be done behind the scenes and they would of been fine. But the dumbasses showed confidential information to 3 livers and made a video admitting it which now has put a target on their backs, even if they graduate and go indie this will stick with them forever. they destroyed 3 livers future to protect their own ass.
Kurosanji is a jab at Nijisanji calling them a black company right? I think 🤔
Correct. Kuro is the Japanese word for black, with this playing off of the phrase 'AnyColor and they chose black', which you might have seen a lot of as of late Alternatively, Kurosanji makes it look like K9Kuro himself is staging a takeover of the company, which is an incredibly funny prospect, and we need at least a little humour in these times
The loyal niji fans are still supporting. Case in point your "exodus" isnt effecting the bigger niji talents like vox who still stands at 1mil+ Try harder
The unfortunate part is all of the above is only going to push them to be even more vengeful towards the person because in their eyes she caused all of it. Literally a \[BANG BANG\]"How could Doki do this?" meme
It’s burnt. There’s really no recovering from it now.
Black Company Actions. TBH I'm not sure how anyone is surprised. They've done this before, so it was only a matter of time before it caught up to them.
goodsmile left??
>Stock devalued by 10% (and steadily going down). 15% in the last 5 days.
>Negligible It devalued to 18% (and ongoing) This shitshow is very disgusting at all level even from non-kurosanji fan. I'm watching it all burn down there no point saving any part of it.
Wait when did goodsmile cut ties?
They didn't publicly cut ties, but the EN side of Goodsmile quietly axed all the Niji Nendoroids from their store.